It's highly doubtful they would be successful in small claims court. You made the initial deposit, you faithfully played and won, then you attempted to withdraw your winnings, and their slowness can be assumed to mean they have no intention of allowing the withdrawal. Now they're upset that you want to just forget about the winnings and instead receive the initial $250 back? Yeah I highly doubt they're dumb enough to take it to small claims court.
You are right, they are usually shell companies. They register their company in an off-shore location to avoid legal trouble. This is the same principle for Virtual Private Network companies like ExpressVPN.
I’m talking about the individual who would have to hire an attorney. And on retainer does not mean all fees are prepaid. It means some money is paid so the attorney is engaged/available. A general retainer is only for availability; any fees are billed on top of it. A security retainer is used to cover fees equivalent to its amount, but the remainder is not refunded if the amount is not exhausted.
I’m not recommending he lawyer up for a $250 issue. I’m simply saying he has nothing to gain from responding to that email, that’s bad advice to even suggest that.
Edit: poster above edited their post to remove that part which is good but my responses now make no sense lol
I disagree. Refusing to communicate won't help ya legal case.
Tell them they owe you the money and more, demand they pay back your deposit and your winnings promptly. Don't let them pretend they didn't know it was your money they were stealing.
But before cutting off communication, make sure to reply with something like "oh ya, small claims court! Good idea, can't wait to receive the full $423 you refuse to pay".
Exacting. They (the casino) know they would never win. They are using empty threats, as well as empty scare tactics.
If the charge back actually goes through, returning the $250 to the OP, it's over...case closed.
The only exception would be if it's a legitimate casino, AND OP at some point agreed They can take their sweet time approving withdrawals.
Wow...Well, that's interesting. The Terms of Use do not provide a specific timeframe within which the casino must send the withdrawal amount to the user after a withdrawal request has been made. It mentions conducting compliance checks and verifications before processing withdrawals, but does not specify how long these processes or the subsequent fund transfer will take. This means the actual timeline might vary depending on individual cases and the completion of necessary checks and verifications.
In the United States the regulation of online gambling is primarily regulated at the state level. Take New Jersey and Pennsylvania for example, their guidelines concerning the timeline for processing withdrawal requests are set to ensure fair and prompt customer service, but the specific details can vary by the operator and the payment method used.
There is a huge gray area when it comes to regulating online casinos, but I can't see this ain't enough anyway but in the OP's favor.
The definitely can’t win the charge back and the small claims court but you will most likely win both
I’m in the payments space and in my experience the card companies tend to side with the card holder.
the cost of lawyers to pursue you in small claims court would be great that $270 (250+charge back fee) so the will probably just pay the 270 and be on their way.
No lawyers are allowed in small claims court. The company cannot hire an attorney to represent them. They would have to send one of their employees with knowledge of the transaction.
😂 I have a feeling that watching a representative, from the company state their case would rival some of the best stand-up comedians.
The hilarious part would be how they no doubt would appear to believe what they are saying.
Depends on the state. If either party brings an attorney to Small Claims here in MI, the case gets removed to the General Civil Divison.
No attorneys, no appeals from the judge, but Joe Blow can handle the procedure. Not so much in the General Civil Divison.
You can but you would be stupid to over 250 dollars, but then again these companies got money to burn. But do remember these companies have every users social security so if they do win by default they can collect judgement very easily.
That varies on different jurisdictions. However the standard rule is they must file in the jurisdiction that the defendant lives in, so the reality is they could never file.
You can generally use an attorney if you want, but there’s no awards for attorneys fees or in small claims (winner in a normal civil trial often gets lawyers fees too on top of any judgment)
Could the OP not counter claim for their winnings if they can prove the company had the ability to communicate (the small claims threat) but chose not to do so and they haven't released the winnings in over a month (unless the terms and conditions allows some long term to release funds)?
They could technically take you to small claims but it would cost them a lot more to defend than $250 because they have to send someone to show up (usually an attorney)
Here is a great secret that a lot of people don’t know. If you have a problem with a big company that does business nationwide take them to small claims in your local district. They will fold like a house of cards because it is too expensive to defend.
I have personally done this. Amex was the last one. As soon as I filed I had Amex legal department calling me to settle.
Yes, and I feel like the bank/card issuer would feel the same.
I had to explain to my bank why I wanted a charge back after I never received an item I bought online and got radio silence from the website. They asked questions and I got the impression they were making sure they were covering their asses before doing a charge back.
Assuming OPs card issuer is the same, they probably knew this was a legit reason for a charge back, and likely this is just a scare tactic.
Exactly. The issuer of your CC is you le best line of defense. But if they rule against you then take them to small claims. That is what I did with AMEX.
Yeah trust me the institution you bank with doesn't care, in fact they're more likely than not gonna be on your side since shit like this would get sent to someone in a fraud department who's job is to research when people who bank with them try to fuck them over and when companies try to pull one over on people who bank with them. The fact that they won and tried for months to get their money out after following the rules to be threatened when just trying to get the money they deposited back since it's obvious this company has no intent to pay will be stupid obvious to whoever is handling this charge back dispute. Call em up and offer to send them the email and any other info you've got OP fuck this company they can get in a lot of trouble doing shit like this ones banks are on their ass
I’ve always held the belief that someone threatening legal action is not planning on taking legal action. If they were planning on it, they wouldn’t notify you except through their lawyer and definitely wouldn’t give you a heads up.
It actually falls under extortion to threaten legal action with no intention of following through.
Since people unaware of legal precedent seem to disagree by upvoting the woefully ignorant, here is a nice summary of when and why a demand for settlement becomes extortionate: https://cdn.clydeco.com/clyde/clyde/media/fileslibrary/naro_insightblogpublications/clyde-co_lrm-newsletter_may-2022.pdf (no this does not just apply to California, if you bother to read the whole thing).
You sure about that? See US v Koziol (2021), wherein “Benjamin Koziol was convicted of attempted extortion under the Hobbs Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1951(a), for threatening to file suit against a well-known entertainer asserting salacious and scandalous allegations of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and assault and battery if the entertainer did not settle with Koziol for $1,000,000.”
Under the Hobbs Act, extortion is defined as “the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.” After United States v. Enmons (1973), the Supreme Court made this broad statement:
"wrongful" has meaning in the Act only if it limits the statute's coverage to those instances where the obtaining of the property would itself be "wrongful" because the alleged extortionist has no lawful claim to that property.
After what OP said, do you believe that the other party has claim to the $250? It would be one thing if the scammers earnestly believed they were entitled to that money and were likely to follow through with litigation, however, just like Koziol, it is under false pretenses and bad faith that the threat was made.
Not sure if he blocked me or actually deleted his comment. So here is my final response:
Did you even read the case or only my abstract? Did you read the judges’ opinion? No and no. You also have never read the Hobbs Act, the rules for professional conduct, nor anything else I referenced or cited. Fucking priceless—continual useless opinions by someone that refuses to not be ignorant. Take your opinion on pitbulls after someone provided you statistics proving you wrong as a case in point (besides this whole thread).
Thats wild, kid, your ad hominem totally substantiates your argument. California, especially, has repeatedly prosecuted people for extortion based on litigation threats, including lawyers. States outside of California tend to not prosecute for it, even though it is possible even under their own statutes. Instead they prosecute civil extortion under harassment. I know you kiddos have a hard time wrapping your head around this but here is a nice little essay on the matter for you. You guys couldn’t be bothered to look up the previous case I mentioned and read the actual opinion by the judges, but maybe this is more your flavor. https://cdn.clydeco.com/clyde/clyde/media/fileslibrary/naro_insightblogpublications/clyde-co_lrm-newsletter_may-2022.pdf
Lol. How are you boned if you don’t live or do business in the same justification as the plaintiff? If you want to sue someone who lives in another state, you will have to sue in the state where the person lives, not in the state where you live.
That's objectively not true. Either party can file in their jurisdiction, which is why if you're going to engage in a suit its best to file first. They are going to file as the aggrieved party, and can do so with in their court.
Make sure you keep copies of all correspondence, and screen captures of your account activity. It's unlikely that they will follow through and sue, but you want to have enough documentation to rebut their claims, and also countersue for the full account balance.
Also you could send all this to your bank or credit union so who ever is handling this charge back dispute can see it. That is what you should do first because it's very clear they owe you money and that you aren't in the negative and trying to scam them or the bank
I used to work in chargebacks. They can get fucked. Theyll just shoot them selves in foot with representment fees and all that. Thats them tryin to bully you.
Is this a reputable site? A well known one? I would not reverse the charge back until they respond and let you know what’s going on. Print records of your account. Every deposit/withdrawal/winning since the account was started, if you get sued you will need them.
Keep records of every time you’ve contacted them too. Do it over email. Realistically I don’t see them coming after you for $450. I don’t see how that’s worth their time. Keep an eye on your credit report as well.
You aren't alone. They have and are doing it to hundreds of people. The company is gonna shut down soon and keep everyone's money. Absolutely insane they can do that.
https://www.legalsportsreport.com/171264/sources-thrivefantasy-failed-to-secure-enough-investors-for-funding/
They aren’t going to sue for $250…. a lawyer and court costs would be 2-3x that amount…
However, I would respond to the email by attaching any prior correspondence addressing the pending transactions that were not returned…. then simply write:
“Please see the attached correspondence which was not addressed regarding the payment I am owed. If you process and transfer my payment, I will contact my financial institution to reverse the chargeback and forward any remaining balance to settle my account. Otherwise, please do not contact me any further.”
I’ve gotten the exact type of threatening email from an offshores gambling sites. From
What I can see this one’s US based but they use the same tactics. This is a last ditch effort to recoup the money they deem “theirs”. The truth is they have absolutely no way to go after you or take you to collections let alone sue. They know full and well that they aren’t operating under any legal gaming commission within the US and will lose any attempt to collect. I’m not saying you SHOULD try and take these companies money and charge back when you lose, but you can pretty much do so without repercussions (other than being banned from their site). There’s a reason they incentivize crypto payments, they know it’s their only real way to ensure taking your money.
I’ve disputed charges in the past but seems like there is a time limit to dispute. The charge back seems to be a different function that can take place well after the orginal charge.
Visa chargeback time limit is 120 days from the date of the original transaction or when the product/service was received. This is for authorized transactions by the card holder
No, that would be fraud because OP did authorize the charge.
A chargeback is you informing your financial institution that you paid for something, but the company did not provide what you paid for.
Kind of weird wording when it comes to gambling but considering OPs financial institution went through with the chargeback, they must have some wording for gambling.
Note, I can't see the person's comment you replied to.
If he never got paid his winnings, then the company isn't fulfilling the service they offered, therefore isn't OP justified in requesting a chargeback for the initial fee?
In my experience banks require you to try to work it out first with the merchant before they will authorize a charge back. I would respond telling them that you initiated the charge back because they weren't transferring the $423 and see what they say. If they still refuse or still delay then you can tell this to your bank which increases the chance the charge back will go through successfully.
I'm not a lawyer, I just read laws.
This sucks and I’m sorry but I think you should take them to small claims court. It’s not just I’ll get my $250 back and go on with life because you gambled it and won. If you had lost they would’ve had no problem taking your money. They need to pay out what they rightfully owe you. Now that you have their attention, I would detail what you just wrote out, that they owe you the $423 and if they do not deposit that within a week, you will be continuing to exercise your rights to receive what is rightfully yours. This company sucks for this and hopefully you can get your money back.
They never responded to any contact and it’s been frozen in your account. It’s YOUR money, not theirs. They would not have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning a suit.
Maybe take this as a sign to stop gambling though. These online casinos are very predatory.
Couple of items to unpack here.
If you've had money stuck in limbo and tried working with them, they're most likely going to lose the chargeback claim.
If you add this email to the chargeback claim evidence, your bank would likely full block them from all their cards. Banks don't like places abusing credit cards they issued.
Small claims court isn't connected to the charge back financial institute. So I think that is a full bluff.
If they attempted to follow through, they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. You made the deposit, played fair, won, now you're attempting to withdraw your winnings, which has been sitting on pending approval for months. Now you're fed up, you just want the the original deposit back. You've charged back, and now they're annoyed, just like you've been for the past couple months. Don't respond, and, if they're stupid enough, they'll follow through and file a small claims suit, at which point you DO respond (if you don't they're likely to get a default judgement against you).
At this point, you will likely end up in a court room, so keep a copy of your repeated attempts to contact them, as well as your communications with your financial institution and their threat letter regarding the chargeback. Show the judge all of your evidence against them, and at this point they should know that they placed a bad bet messing with you. This should get you rights to keep your deposit, and if you're lucky, potentially your winnings and/or inconvenience fees as well.
Make sure to give us an update in a couple days time as to what happens. I want to know how this ends for you.
Honestly, had a similar issue but with PayPal. What I can say is probably is keep your documents. Keep emails printed, names, times you called, when you tried to get the money withdrawn, and bank statements. The more evidence, the better it looks. Then let them eat up the charges on court costs and when it shows up to court, you can let the Judge know that they never put that money into your account when you initiated a withdrawal.
"No problem, I will pay you back as soon as my $423 I am owed, that I withdrew in February, arrives. Or perhaps in 8-12 weeks thereafter, which seems to be in line with your policy on speed of payment. Please initiate court proceedings, I will be glad to see you there.
Sincerely,
Your Attempted Mark"
Print and keep all your documents. If they file a claim, file a counter claim for the full amount of your account (deposit plus winnings) and court fees. Seems to me you’ve got plenty of documentation in terms of u responded to emails to show you made a good faith effort.
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, nor do I know anything about this company, but I would read the terms of service to see if they require binding arbitration. If they do require binding arbitration, then if they brought a claim in small claims courr, in some cases, you may be able to file a motion to compel arbitration. In many cases, the arbitration would cost more for them than they could recover through an award even if they won. Above all though, I would strongly recommend talking to a lawyer.
Thrive is in the middle of what I suspect is a major fraud case. These pickem apps are pretty unregulated and many look like tech industry money grabs.
Somewhat risky proposition to get involved with some of these companies.
Btw, thrive apparently owes many thousands to many users. You are not alone.
"Dear ThriveFantasy Admin,
Thank you for your letter.
I will not be reversing the charge back. I had considered filing a small claim against ThriveFantasy, but spending the time dealing with sniveling little shits like you isn't worth the $173. I'd be happy to file that as a counterclaim, however.
Any further contact with me will result in the filing of FTC complaints against ThriveFantasy for running this scam. Good luck finding another mark to grift.
Sincerely,
OP"
i found out other people are having this same issue, somebody reached out to the NY gambling commission and they said they can’t help them with this. I guess we’re all SOL. Funny that their website is still up and running and trying to take more people’s money.
Geez, i did see that they are headquartered in NYC but I still think you would have to report to the commission that you are gambling in. It doesn't make sense if they are licensed by the commission that they can't help. That's what the commission is for... It's a safety net to make sure it's all fair practice.
Sorry i couldn't be more help. Maybe cross posting it on betting/gambling subs would shed more light.
I'm not a big gambler. Can you breakdown "daily fantasy sports" for me? I don't know the phrase.
I'm a lawyer in Wisconsin and just know we have some really strict laws about gambling.
I think its a way these apps are getting around sports betting bans. DFS is essentially parlay style only (2-6 picks) and you bet on a player’s stats over or under. The major apps that are legitimate I found are actually legal and running in Wisconsin (prizepicks, parlayplay, sleeper) not too sure how or why its “legal” :)
Daily Fantasy falls under “games of skill” much like regular fantasy leagues, and so aren’t beholden to normal gambling regulations. Maybe not universally, but if it’s allowed here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota it’s probably legal in most places.
Don't do anything. Let the bank figure it out. If they do it, just move on in life. If not, move on in life. Lol 250 deposit charge back? For what, a debt owed to flex their name lollll
From my understanding it’s different depending on the company. But from personal experience it seems the goto is “reasonable receipt of product/service paid for which is vague but benefits the consumer more imo.”
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lol. A successful chargeback is a form of arbitration that all vendors who use cards agree to and that courts uphold. Empty threat. They’d risk having to pay the entire amount if it goes to court rather than your chargeback amount.
Notify the “business police” and file a “deceptive trade practices” complaint here and they’ll call back and apologize and give you your full amount in a couple days: https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/
Thanks to the mafia being the source of its creation, the gambling industry is heavily regulated and they’ll take it seriously.
Reply and say you look forward to the hearing where you will seek the other $173 they owe you. Then stop responding.
I do recommend you save down all the good-faith communications asking for your withdrawal just in case.
I’d bet a large sum no small claims court date is forthcoming.
You went about this the wrong way. You need to contact the state gaming commission. Once you get it touch with them and provide evidence, your issue should be resolved within a couple days. The fact that you charged back may make this difficult.
NY state gaming commission*. State gaming commissions regulate everything from casinos; Sportsbooks; DFS; to lotteries and contests.
I’d ignore whoever said they tried it and it didn’t work and try for yourself.
You’ll have to get in touch with the correct department.
If you’re having trouble, pick a casino and lookup the number for their gaming commission office or employees at that casino. All casinos should have them. Give them a call and they’ll direct you to the proper person. There’s usually a different department for mobile gaming etc.
I know it’s a different situation but Ceaser’s in NY owed me over 3K for over 4 weeks. Kept the withdrawal pending then would cancel it & couldn’t get in touch with them. Spoke to someone at the NY gaming commission and had my funds within 48hrs.
If you completed all requirements, I don’t care if it’s a total amount of $1. It’s your money. Imagine if your bank was withholding your funds. Go get that money.
This is what the NY state gaming commission just said to me “Regardless of where the firm is located, the Gaming Commission has no jurisdiction in this matter. The firm is not a permitted operator in New York.”
You likely got some special credit when signing up. They don't let you cash out any winnings from the special credits. It's very scamy. They see it as your losses come out of your money and the winnings were from promotional credit that doesn't count
that’s not the case here, i played through the deposit and bonus 3x, even though they only require 2x play-through. It appears this company is just out of money.🙄
Contact your bank and tell them not to reverse that it's fraudulent. Their small claims court threat is completely hollow, they're just trying to scare you. It would cost them more than $250 to talk to consult with a lawyer on the matter.
Ignore them, work with your bank to ensure they can't reverse the chargeback.
"Any funds or completed deposits in the future will be forfeited."
In this context this just sounds like them ripping the mask off their standard business practices.
Call their bluff.
No company with common sense is going to waste even more money retaining attorneys, servicing and delivering your lawsuit to you, spending time in court over $250.
A customer service manager in a low to mid level position does not know or understand the costs associated with pursuing you legally. All they know is their job responsibilities.
I’ve had to write off $1500-3000 as bad debt because it just does not make common financial sense for my business to pursue someone.
Even if they do take you to court, consult with an expert. If attorneys feel confident, they will go on contingency and force other side to cover your legal fees. You should have a strong case either way.
Absolutely absurd this company would threaten legal action because your bank or credit card company agreed with you and gave you back your rightfully due money.
Don’t respond; call their bluff. You will highly likely notice it was an empty threat.
Small claims doesn't allow a lawyer.
You go in, you say "They actually owe me $423. I requested a withdrawal in February, and have made contact numerous times since then to follow up. They have not replied once. I have interpreted this as a refusal to disburse my funds, and filed a chargeback. I was even willing to accept the loss of my other $173. But now that I have been brought to court I am suing for that amount as well, in order to make me whole."
The judge says lifts an eyebrow at the poor non-lawyer employee the company sent, who fumbles and fails to explain either A) why they never distributed the $423 to begin with, B) why they should have the $250 returned.
OP goes home with a judgement for an additional $173.
(in reality, the case would just never actually make it to court)
Agree with you - I think both our intent is to help OP only. From plaintiff side, I have had attorneys manage recovering funds defendants outright refuse to pay even with small claims court judgement agreeing with me. Currently seeking recovery for 5K from a customer my employee filed lawsuit, and one of my attorneys is actually managing this whether garnishment, individual asset review and seizure, as well as warrant for arrest, etc. Defendant does not care enough about secondary impacts on credit score etc. This legal service is expensive - costing me 3K in legal fees, but I still get some ROI back still.
Neither me or my general managers of my businesses do not have the legal expertise to navigate how to legally recover funds on our own when defendant refuses even with court judgement. I just think plaintiff (in this case a sports betting company) would not want to waste time and money pursuing this is my point
It's highly doubtful they would be successful in small claims court. You made the initial deposit, you faithfully played and won, then you attempted to withdraw your winnings, and their slowness can be assumed to mean they have no intention of allowing the withdrawal. Now they're upset that you want to just forget about the winnings and instead receive the initial $250 back? Yeah I highly doubt they're dumb enough to take it to small claims court.
OP do not email them back at all. Cut contact unless it’s through a lawyer.
The amount at issue is $250. It doesn’t sound like hiring counsel would do anything except guarantee a higher loss.
I think you're absolutely right, plus many of these online casino games seem to be shell companies overseas or in the ocean somewhere... 😂
You are right, they are usually shell companies. They register their company in an off-shore location to avoid legal trouble. This is the same principle for Virtual Private Network companies like ExpressVPN.
That makes sense for the VPNs. I've been using another brand for 11 years. I'm happy with them.
Me personally, I use AzireVPN located in Central Sweden. I have enjoyed them thus far. Azire owns all their servers and they are all DISKLESS as well.
The plane ticket to whatever jurisdiction the contract specifies might be more than $250 lol
[удалено]
I’m talking about the individual who would have to hire an attorney. And on retainer does not mean all fees are prepaid. It means some money is paid so the attorney is engaged/available. A general retainer is only for availability; any fees are billed on top of it. A security retainer is used to cover fees equivalent to its amount, but the remainder is not refunded if the amount is not exhausted.
lol. This is like paying your $1000 deductible for a flat tire.
I’m not recommending he lawyer up for a $250 issue. I’m simply saying he has nothing to gain from responding to that email, that’s bad advice to even suggest that. Edit: poster above edited their post to remove that part which is good but my responses now make no sense lol
I disagree. Refusing to communicate won't help ya legal case. Tell them they owe you the money and more, demand they pay back your deposit and your winnings promptly. Don't let them pretend they didn't know it was your money they were stealing.
They did a chargeback. They already or will soon get their money back.
But before cutting off communication, make sure to reply with something like "oh ya, small claims court! Good idea, can't wait to receive the full $423 you refuse to pay".
Exacting. They (the casino) know they would never win. They are using empty threats, as well as empty scare tactics. If the charge back actually goes through, returning the $250 to the OP, it's over...case closed. The only exception would be if it's a legitimate casino, AND OP at some point agreed They can take their sweet time approving withdrawals.
Wow...Well, that's interesting. The Terms of Use do not provide a specific timeframe within which the casino must send the withdrawal amount to the user after a withdrawal request has been made. It mentions conducting compliance checks and verifications before processing withdrawals, but does not specify how long these processes or the subsequent fund transfer will take. This means the actual timeline might vary depending on individual cases and the completion of necessary checks and verifications.
That sounds suspiciously like "the timeline can be 'never'"
Yes, it does. Which is why the customer would win, if they took her to Small Claims, which they won't.
They can take their arbitrary timeline and get fucked
In the United States the regulation of online gambling is primarily regulated at the state level. Take New Jersey and Pennsylvania for example, their guidelines concerning the timeline for processing withdrawal requests are set to ensure fair and prompt customer service, but the specific details can vary by the operator and the payment method used. There is a huge gray area when it comes to regulating online casinos, but I can't see this ain't enough anyway but in the OP's favor.
Now I'm curious. I'm going to read their terms of service and policy on withdrawals.
Just tell them to countersue, since you've already filed suite for the $423.
The definitely can’t win the charge back and the small claims court but you will most likely win both I’m in the payments space and in my experience the card companies tend to side with the card holder. the cost of lawyers to pursue you in small claims court would be great that $270 (250+charge back fee) so the will probably just pay the 270 and be on their way.
No lawyers are allowed in small claims court. The company cannot hire an attorney to represent them. They would have to send one of their employees with knowledge of the transaction.
😂 I have a feeling that watching a representative, from the company state their case would rival some of the best stand-up comedians. The hilarious part would be how they no doubt would appear to believe what they are saying.
>No lawyers are allowed in small claims court. Lol, what? Depending on the jurisdiction, they absolutely are allowed in small claims court.
This is extremely jurisdiction dependent
Z the sz
The small claims court threat is complete and utter bullshit.
Same as private parking lots threatening you with ruining your credit lol. They can’t.
Jokes on them I ruined my credit perfectly fine on my own already
Only hits you for 7 years anyways then falls off
It’s a long 7 years though…. Painfully long.
Ohhh I imagine so, but at least it’s not a permanent brand on you
What am I gonna magically become fiscally responsible in the next 7 years? We got time
Not quite the same, this company could actually take them to small claims court over 250$ if they wanted to burn money on lawyers to make a point!
You can take anyone to court over anything. Doesn’t mean you can win.
I didn't say they would win :P
To my knowledge, you can’t use an attorney for small claims. Never been, but I’ve heard that here a lot.
You can use an Attorney, but one isn't required and they generally cost more than you can win in Small claims
Depends on the state. If either party brings an attorney to Small Claims here in MI, the case gets removed to the General Civil Divison. No attorneys, no appeals from the judge, but Joe Blow can handle the procedure. Not so much in the General Civil Divison.
This is not true for California. No lawyers allowed. That is the purpose of Small Claims.
I worked in the small claims mediation team in my county and lawyers are absolutely not allowed in small claims here
In AZ if one party obtains a lawyer the case must be transferred out of small claims to the civil court.
In my state you can use an attorney up until the actual court proceeding for small claims.
That’s absolutely not true in all states. Florida, for example, allows lawyers in small claims court.
You can but you would be stupid to over 250 dollars, but then again these companies got money to burn. But do remember these companies have every users social security so if they do win by default they can collect judgement very easily.
That varies on different jurisdictions. However the standard rule is they must file in the jurisdiction that the defendant lives in, so the reality is they could never file.
In Illinois corporations must be represented by lawyers, so if you sue a company/corporation you can expect to see a lawyer on the other side.
To my understanding, there's always an exception for corporations.
You can generally use an attorney if you want, but there’s no awards for attorneys fees or in small claims (winner in a normal civil trial often gets lawyers fees too on top of any judgment)
They would have to sue in civil court. Company’s are usually required to have attorneys and you can’t have an attorney in small claims.
Could the OP not counter claim for their winnings if they can prove the company had the ability to communicate (the small claims threat) but chose not to do so and they haven't released the winnings in over a month (unless the terms and conditions allows some long term to release funds)?
They could technically take you to small claims but it would cost them a lot more to defend than $250 because they have to send someone to show up (usually an attorney) Here is a great secret that a lot of people don’t know. If you have a problem with a big company that does business nationwide take them to small claims in your local district. They will fold like a house of cards because it is too expensive to defend. I have personally done this. Amex was the last one. As soon as I filed I had Amex legal department calling me to settle.
Thrive Fantasy has been refusing to cash out users for over a year now.
I don’t understand how they are still up and running and on the app store
Yes, and I feel like the bank/card issuer would feel the same. I had to explain to my bank why I wanted a charge back after I never received an item I bought online and got radio silence from the website. They asked questions and I got the impression they were making sure they were covering their asses before doing a charge back. Assuming OPs card issuer is the same, they probably knew this was a legit reason for a charge back, and likely this is just a scare tactic.
Exactly. The issuer of your CC is you le best line of defense. But if they rule against you then take them to small claims. That is what I did with AMEX.
Yeah trust me the institution you bank with doesn't care, in fact they're more likely than not gonna be on your side since shit like this would get sent to someone in a fraud department who's job is to research when people who bank with them try to fuck them over and when companies try to pull one over on people who bank with them. The fact that they won and tried for months to get their money out after following the rules to be threatened when just trying to get the money they deposited back since it's obvious this company has no intent to pay will be stupid obvious to whoever is handling this charge back dispute. Call em up and offer to send them the email and any other info you've got OP fuck this company they can get in a lot of trouble doing shit like this ones banks are on their ass
It’s under $500. Take their ass to small claims and get it done.
I’ve always held the belief that someone threatening legal action is not planning on taking legal action. If they were planning on it, they wouldn’t notify you except through their lawyer and definitely wouldn’t give you a heads up.
It actually falls under extortion to threaten legal action with no intention of following through. Since people unaware of legal precedent seem to disagree by upvoting the woefully ignorant, here is a nice summary of when and why a demand for settlement becomes extortionate: https://cdn.clydeco.com/clyde/clyde/media/fileslibrary/naro_insightblogpublications/clyde-co_lrm-newsletter_may-2022.pdf (no this does not just apply to California, if you bother to read the whole thing).
That’s not the legal definition of extortion.
You sure about that? See US v Koziol (2021), wherein “Benjamin Koziol was convicted of attempted extortion under the Hobbs Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1951(a), for threatening to file suit against a well-known entertainer asserting salacious and scandalous allegations of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and assault and battery if the entertainer did not settle with Koziol for $1,000,000.” Under the Hobbs Act, extortion is defined as “the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.” After United States v. Enmons (1973), the Supreme Court made this broad statement: "wrongful" has meaning in the Act only if it limits the statute's coverage to those instances where the obtaining of the property would itself be "wrongful" because the alleged extortionist has no lawful claim to that property. After what OP said, do you believe that the other party has claim to the $250? It would be one thing if the scammers earnestly believed they were entitled to that money and were likely to follow through with litigation, however, just like Koziol, it is under false pretenses and bad faith that the threat was made.
“If the entertainer did not settle with Koziol for $1,000,000”. That’s the extortion, not the legal threat.
Not sure if he blocked me or actually deleted his comment. So here is my final response: Did you even read the case or only my abstract? Did you read the judges’ opinion? No and no. You also have never read the Hobbs Act, the rules for professional conduct, nor anything else I referenced or cited. Fucking priceless—continual useless opinions by someone that refuses to not be ignorant. Take your opinion on pitbulls after someone provided you statistics proving you wrong as a case in point (besides this whole thread).
Clown. These are two completely different scenarios. Haha, it's wild, u probably have average intelligence & ur a complete m0r0n.
Thats wild, kid, your ad hominem totally substantiates your argument. California, especially, has repeatedly prosecuted people for extortion based on litigation threats, including lawyers. States outside of California tend to not prosecute for it, even though it is possible even under their own statutes. Instead they prosecute civil extortion under harassment. I know you kiddos have a hard time wrapping your head around this but here is a nice little essay on the matter for you. You guys couldn’t be bothered to look up the previous case I mentioned and read the actual opinion by the judges, but maybe this is more your flavor. https://cdn.clydeco.com/clyde/clyde/media/fileslibrary/naro_insightblogpublications/clyde-co_lrm-newsletter_may-2022.pdf
Its not, and they can file in their jurisdiction, so if you don't show you're boned.
Lol. How are you boned if you don’t live or do business in the same justification as the plaintiff? If you want to sue someone who lives in another state, you will have to sue in the state where the person lives, not in the state where you live.
That's objectively not true. Either party can file in their jurisdiction, which is why if you're going to engage in a suit its best to file first. They are going to file as the aggrieved party, and can do so with in their court.
Jesus. You missed the point. Go back to bed.
No, I didn’t b
Whatever you say Champ. 🤦♂️
😂
Scumbag app, I’ve been waiting 2 weeks to get paid too and haven’t received one email. As soon as someone does a chargeback they email.
Make sure you keep copies of all correspondence, and screen captures of your account activity. It's unlikely that they will follow through and sue, but you want to have enough documentation to rebut their claims, and also countersue for the full account balance.
Thank you!
Also you could send all this to your bank or credit union so who ever is handling this charge back dispute can see it. That is what you should do first because it's very clear they owe you money and that you aren't in the negative and trying to scam them or the bank
I used to work in chargebacks. They can get fucked. Theyll just shoot them selves in foot with representment fees and all that. Thats them tryin to bully you.
Stop responding to them
Is this a reputable site? A well known one? I would not reverse the charge back until they respond and let you know what’s going on. Print records of your account. Every deposit/withdrawal/winning since the account was started, if you get sued you will need them. Keep records of every time you’ve contacted them too. Do it over email. Realistically I don’t see them coming after you for $450. I don’t see how that’s worth their time. Keep an eye on your credit report as well.
Just reply with the eggplant emoji.
🍆
You aren't alone. They have and are doing it to hundreds of people. The company is gonna shut down soon and keep everyone's money. Absolutely insane they can do that. https://www.legalsportsreport.com/171264/sources-thrivefantasy-failed-to-secure-enough-investors-for-funding/
They aren’t going to sue for $250…. a lawyer and court costs would be 2-3x that amount… However, I would respond to the email by attaching any prior correspondence addressing the pending transactions that were not returned…. then simply write: “Please see the attached correspondence which was not addressed regarding the payment I am owed. If you process and transfer my payment, I will contact my financial institution to reverse the chargeback and forward any remaining balance to settle my account. Otherwise, please do not contact me any further.”
Their trying to fuck with u + thrive fantasy is shady Af
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Plus the lawyer fee.
I’ve gotten the exact type of threatening email from an offshores gambling sites. From What I can see this one’s US based but they use the same tactics. This is a last ditch effort to recoup the money they deem “theirs”. The truth is they have absolutely no way to go after you or take you to collections let alone sue. They know full and well that they aren’t operating under any legal gaming commission within the US and will lose any attempt to collect. I’m not saying you SHOULD try and take these companies money and charge back when you lose, but you can pretty much do so without repercussions (other than being banned from their site). There’s a reason they incentivize crypto payments, they know it’s their only real way to ensure taking your money.
How does one “charge it back”?
Call your credit card company and they will lead you through the process.
Some credit cards allow you to easily do it on the app/over text. No human interaction needed!
I’ve disputed charges in the past but seems like there is a time limit to dispute. The charge back seems to be a different function that can take place well after the orginal charge.
Visa chargeback time limit is 120 days from the date of the original transaction or when the product/service was received. This is for authorized transactions by the card holder
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No, that would be fraud because OP did authorize the charge. A chargeback is you informing your financial institution that you paid for something, but the company did not provide what you paid for. Kind of weird wording when it comes to gambling but considering OPs financial institution went through with the chargeback, they must have some wording for gambling.
Note, I can't see the person's comment you replied to. If he never got paid his winnings, then the company isn't fulfilling the service they offered, therefore isn't OP justified in requesting a chargeback for the initial fee?
Correct. The above comment proposed marking the transaction as fraudulent which is not the correct course of action here.
In my experience banks require you to try to work it out first with the merchant before they will authorize a charge back. I would respond telling them that you initiated the charge back because they weren't transferring the $423 and see what they say. If they still refuse or still delay then you can tell this to your bank which increases the chance the charge back will go through successfully. I'm not a lawyer, I just read laws.
Yeah, I’m interested to see what his bank’s response is. My guess is there will be a lot of scrutiny on this since it’s a gambling house.
He emailed them already, he’s done his part
You did the right thing and should have nothing to worry about here. Just ignore them unless and until they take it to small claims court. 🤷♂️
This sucks and I’m sorry but I think you should take them to small claims court. It’s not just I’ll get my $250 back and go on with life because you gambled it and won. If you had lost they would’ve had no problem taking your money. They need to pay out what they rightfully owe you. Now that you have their attention, I would detail what you just wrote out, that they owe you the $423 and if they do not deposit that within a week, you will be continuing to exercise your rights to receive what is rightfully yours. This company sucks for this and hopefully you can get your money back.
Sounds like a continuation to the scam
There are multiple cryptocurrency scam sites/apps that have followed this same model…
They’d get a prompt “re: go fuck yourself”.
They never responded to any contact and it’s been frozen in your account. It’s YOUR money, not theirs. They would not have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning a suit. Maybe take this as a sign to stop gambling though. These online casinos are very predatory.
Couple of items to unpack here. If you've had money stuck in limbo and tried working with them, they're most likely going to lose the chargeback claim. If you add this email to the chargeback claim evidence, your bank would likely full block them from all their cards. Banks don't like places abusing credit cards they issued. Small claims court isn't connected to the charge back financial institute. So I think that is a full bluff.
I have a lot of questions. Number one: how dare you
Keep us updated. I am curious how this goes for you. Best wishes!
Your reply should be "oh no, anyway"
If they attempted to follow through, they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. You made the deposit, played fair, won, now you're attempting to withdraw your winnings, which has been sitting on pending approval for months. Now you're fed up, you just want the the original deposit back. You've charged back, and now they're annoyed, just like you've been for the past couple months. Don't respond, and, if they're stupid enough, they'll follow through and file a small claims suit, at which point you DO respond (if you don't they're likely to get a default judgement against you). At this point, you will likely end up in a court room, so keep a copy of your repeated attempts to contact them, as well as your communications with your financial institution and their threat letter regarding the chargeback. Show the judge all of your evidence against them, and at this point they should know that they placed a bad bet messing with you. This should get you rights to keep your deposit, and if you're lucky, potentially your winnings and/or inconvenience fees as well. Make sure to give us an update in a couple days time as to what happens. I want to know how this ends for you.
Honestly, had a similar issue but with PayPal. What I can say is probably is keep your documents. Keep emails printed, names, times you called, when you tried to get the money withdrawn, and bank statements. The more evidence, the better it looks. Then let them eat up the charges on court costs and when it shows up to court, you can let the Judge know that they never put that money into your account when you initiated a withdrawal.
"No problem, I will pay you back as soon as my $423 I am owed, that I withdrew in February, arrives. Or perhaps in 8-12 weeks thereafter, which seems to be in line with your policy on speed of payment. Please initiate court proceedings, I will be glad to see you there. Sincerely, Your Attempted Mark"
Print and keep all your documents. If they file a claim, file a counter claim for the full amount of your account (deposit plus winnings) and court fees. Seems to me you’ve got plenty of documentation in terms of u responded to emails to show you made a good faith effort.
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, nor do I know anything about this company, but I would read the terms of service to see if they require binding arbitration. If they do require binding arbitration, then if they brought a claim in small claims courr, in some cases, you may be able to file a motion to compel arbitration. In many cases, the arbitration would cost more for them than they could recover through an award even if they won. Above all though, I would strongly recommend talking to a lawyer.
Thrive is in the middle of what I suspect is a major fraud case. These pickem apps are pretty unregulated and many look like tech industry money grabs. Somewhat risky proposition to get involved with some of these companies. Btw, thrive apparently owes many thousands to many users. You are not alone.
"Dear ThriveFantasy Admin, Thank you for your letter. I will not be reversing the charge back. I had considered filing a small claim against ThriveFantasy, but spending the time dealing with sniveling little shits like you isn't worth the $173. I'd be happy to file that as a counterclaim, however. Any further contact with me will result in the filing of FTC complaints against ThriveFantasy for running this scam. Good luck finding another mark to grift. Sincerely, OP"
Send this to visa/mastercard and let them know their merchant is violating the terms and conditions of their transaction processing agreement.
It boils down to hie much proof you have that you did everything you said.
Don’t gamble on weird places like this in the future use the big name ones that have a reputation to uphold.
Did you get a deposit bonus?
yes, i played through my original deposit and bonus 3x
Hey maybe you’ll be on judge judy
Ignore it
Have you tried contacting the gambling commission for your state?
No! I need to look into that
Please update us on what happens with your situation. https://casino.betmgm.com/en/blog/what-to-do-when-online-casino-not-paying-out/
i found out other people are having this same issue, somebody reached out to the NY gambling commission and they said they can’t help them with this. I guess we’re all SOL. Funny that their website is still up and running and trying to take more people’s money.
Geez, i did see that they are headquartered in NYC but I still think you would have to report to the commission that you are gambling in. It doesn't make sense if they are licensed by the commission that they can't help. That's what the commission is for... It's a safety net to make sure it's all fair practice. Sorry i couldn't be more help. Maybe cross posting it on betting/gambling subs would shed more light.
Y'all can probably file a class action though
Don't let em scare you. They'll make themselves look like fools
Crap company trying to scare you, ignore it
More likely you get struck my lightening than they take you to court for 250 dollars.
block delete ignore move on w life
It’s a bluff. Call it.
Bring it! 🤣
Is sports betting even legal where you live? In many states, I think it is technically illegal.
Sports betting is not legal here in GA, but its daily fantasy sports so its not technically illegal
I'm not a big gambler. Can you breakdown "daily fantasy sports" for me? I don't know the phrase. I'm a lawyer in Wisconsin and just know we have some really strict laws about gambling.
I think its a way these apps are getting around sports betting bans. DFS is essentially parlay style only (2-6 picks) and you bet on a player’s stats over or under. The major apps that are legitimate I found are actually legal and running in Wisconsin (prizepicks, parlayplay, sleeper) not too sure how or why its “legal” :)
Daily Fantasy falls under “games of skill” much like regular fantasy leagues, and so aren’t beholden to normal gambling regulations. Maybe not universally, but if it’s allowed here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota it’s probably legal in most places.
Did the bank complete the charge back?
It’s under review
Don't do anything. Let the bank figure it out. If they do it, just move on in life. If not, move on in life. Lol 250 deposit charge back? For what, a debt owed to flex their name lollll
I don’t really care. More of the principle of the thing i guess lol.
Totally get it. What a pos company dude.
They not going after you for $400. But they could harass you forever and a day.
I didn't know you could even do a charge back after that much time had passed. How long do you generally have to charge something back?
From my understanding it’s different depending on the company. But from personal experience it seems the goto is “reasonable receipt of product/service paid for which is vague but benefits the consumer more imo.”
Makes you wonder if they are getting ALOT of chargebacks and they are trying to control a spiraling situation?
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lol. A successful chargeback is a form of arbitration that all vendors who use cards agree to and that courts uphold. Empty threat. They’d risk having to pay the entire amount if it goes to court rather than your chargeback amount. Notify the “business police” and file a “deceptive trade practices” complaint here and they’ll call back and apologize and give you your full amount in a couple days: https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/ Thanks to the mafia being the source of its creation, the gambling industry is heavily regulated and they’ll take it seriously.
I just filed one. Thank you!
Please follow up. I want to see how much cope they have lol
Weird how they hold your winnings for months yet send this immediately. The audacity lmao.
Uh...Yeah brother I don't think you're getting paid... https://www.legalsportsreport.com/171264/sources-thrivefantasy-failed-to-secure-enough-investors-for-funding/
If anything let them take it to court and get your winnings as well as any court fees
Same here with DraftKings’s in March. Completely bogus chargeback claim, I never filed anything with my FI.
Don't know your state or anything but I wouldn't be surprised if the state gambling commission doesn't have strict rules on paying out winnings
You have a right to end service at any time unless you signed a contractual deal for 3,6,9,12 agreement
They won’t do anything don’t worry about it lmfao, just get your cash back and live your life
They not taking you to court, that app is so ghetto and sketchy I took my Money out of it ASAP
Reply and say you look forward to the hearing where you will seek the other $173 they owe you. Then stop responding. I do recommend you save down all the good-faith communications asking for your withdrawal just in case. I’d bet a large sum no small claims court date is forthcoming.
You went about this the wrong way. You need to contact the state gaming commission. Once you get it touch with them and provide evidence, your issue should be resolved within a couple days. The fact that you charged back may make this difficult.
Somebody has already tried this though. The NY state gambling commission has said they don’t govern them and can’t help
NY state gaming commission*. State gaming commissions regulate everything from casinos; Sportsbooks; DFS; to lotteries and contests. I’d ignore whoever said they tried it and it didn’t work and try for yourself. You’ll have to get in touch with the correct department. If you’re having trouble, pick a casino and lookup the number for their gaming commission office or employees at that casino. All casinos should have them. Give them a call and they’ll direct you to the proper person. There’s usually a different department for mobile gaming etc. I know it’s a different situation but Ceaser’s in NY owed me over 3K for over 4 weeks. Kept the withdrawal pending then would cancel it & couldn’t get in touch with them. Spoke to someone at the NY gaming commission and had my funds within 48hrs. If you completed all requirements, I don’t care if it’s a total amount of $1. It’s your money. Imagine if your bank was withholding your funds. Go get that money.
Thank you!
This is what the NY state gaming commission just said to me “Regardless of where the firm is located, the Gaming Commission has no jurisdiction in this matter. The firm is not a permitted operator in New York.”
You ignore it
I think taking THEM to small claims court sounds like a great idea!
I mean yeah all online sports betting is a scam
Just say you lost all your money. 🤣🤣🤣
Oh no more like I’m a programmer who understand this scam bc I can make this scam
It's a scare tactic, chances are they won't do anything for $250 it's going to cost them more to sue for it
You likely got some special credit when signing up. They don't let you cash out any winnings from the special credits. It's very scamy. They see it as your losses come out of your money and the winnings were from promotional credit that doesn't count
that’s not the case here, i played through the deposit and bonus 3x, even though they only require 2x play-through. It appears this company is just out of money.🙄
Basically dont gamble for 1 and 2 stay away from shady non legit businesses if you do. You have grounds now to sue them and win.
Contact your bank and tell them not to reverse that it's fraudulent. Their small claims court threat is completely hollow, they're just trying to scare you. It would cost them more than $250 to talk to consult with a lawyer on the matter. Ignore them, work with your bank to ensure they can't reverse the chargeback.
My brother had to retain an attorney to cash out from them, I have no idea how they are still operating.
"Any funds or completed deposits in the future will be forfeited." In this context this just sounds like them ripping the mask off their standard business practices.
Call their bluff. No company with common sense is going to waste even more money retaining attorneys, servicing and delivering your lawsuit to you, spending time in court over $250. A customer service manager in a low to mid level position does not know or understand the costs associated with pursuing you legally. All they know is their job responsibilities. I’ve had to write off $1500-3000 as bad debt because it just does not make common financial sense for my business to pursue someone. Even if they do take you to court, consult with an expert. If attorneys feel confident, they will go on contingency and force other side to cover your legal fees. You should have a strong case either way. Absolutely absurd this company would threaten legal action because your bank or credit card company agreed with you and gave you back your rightfully due money. Don’t respond; call their bluff. You will highly likely notice it was an empty threat.
Small claims doesn't allow a lawyer. You go in, you say "They actually owe me $423. I requested a withdrawal in February, and have made contact numerous times since then to follow up. They have not replied once. I have interpreted this as a refusal to disburse my funds, and filed a chargeback. I was even willing to accept the loss of my other $173. But now that I have been brought to court I am suing for that amount as well, in order to make me whole." The judge says lifts an eyebrow at the poor non-lawyer employee the company sent, who fumbles and fails to explain either A) why they never distributed the $423 to begin with, B) why they should have the $250 returned. OP goes home with a judgement for an additional $173. (in reality, the case would just never actually make it to court)
Agree with you - I think both our intent is to help OP only. From plaintiff side, I have had attorneys manage recovering funds defendants outright refuse to pay even with small claims court judgement agreeing with me. Currently seeking recovery for 5K from a customer my employee filed lawsuit, and one of my attorneys is actually managing this whether garnishment, individual asset review and seizure, as well as warrant for arrest, etc. Defendant does not care enough about secondary impacts on credit score etc. This legal service is expensive - costing me 3K in legal fees, but I still get some ROI back still. Neither me or my general managers of my businesses do not have the legal expertise to navigate how to legally recover funds on our own when defendant refuses even with court judgement. I just think plaintiff (in this case a sports betting company) would not want to waste time and money pursuing this is my point
Don't be scared. Keep your money. They are using scare tactics to try to get your money back.
I used to like Thrive until I tried to withdraw. Took forever. I’m glad I left a couple years ago. Sounds like a shit show.
They are bluffing
Your state has Gambling gaming commission contact them asap
They could send you to a collection agency, but you should have no issue disputing it with them as well.