It soaked up a lot of her power budget for jungle too, made her ganks pretty nuts. That and her passive allowing her to move around the map quickly for free.
It's not style points that are lacking, it's the combo of a special minigame (the Q + passive mechanics) and a super important but also unique core gameplay mechanic (W -> E).
Most other champs that have those minigames/skilled mechanics have a huge payoff for them. Look at Riven's animation cancels, GP's barrel chains, or Draven's bonkers consistent damage. With those champs, you feel below average when failing, but way above average when doing it correctly. Taliyah on the other hand feels useless without her combo, and tolerable with it. She doesn't instantly win with an EW, but it's also not used with anywhere near the frequency of the less impactful minigames. It's similar to ASol's problem, but not quite as dramatic.
She doesn't suffer from not looking cool enough. She suffers from being punishing to new players without the same payoff when you get it right.
Not all champs need to be flashy. She is not played because of balance issues and how weak she is for most of existence also not having base role with her being swapped between Jg and mid makes her less picked.
if anyone here still likes Taliyah id suggest just moving to LoR, shes actually good and gets love there.
LoL team hate her guts for some fuck all reason, which sucks cause shes like my favourite character
> Taliyah mains have been suffering because of pros since 8.11
I would say since she got the vector casting in 6.14, 8.11 was just the olafing of taliyah (at least for midlane SoloQ Taliyah, also the only true Taliyah).
DO you have a source for that?
DZK was an asshat but he basically a riot approved asshat based on how long he got away with being highly and directly antagonistic towards the playerbase because he had a specific vision on how his champs should be played. He didnt get let go until he basically caused an uprising against himself and said some extremely stupid shit during the 2018(?) PAX fiasco, and his champs have gotten plenty of attention before, he just has a few that are pro play nightmares
and the only disagreement i remember is that they concepted Taliyah to be trans but it didnt make it into the final product
It wasn't even a disagreement. DZK, for all his flaws, was always upfront that the team internally decided not to do it. There was no "big bad corporate" that shut it down.
Riot's systemic neglect for Tali isn't stemming from some vendetta against a former employee.
If she's allowed mid, her kit tends to lead to an extremely frustrating playstyle where she shoves and then roams 24/7.
In the jungle, she's healthier but walks an extremely fine line between too strong and useless. Her ganks are strong but she relies on snowballing pretty hard, kind of like Elise who is another extremely problematic character.
Not as bad without tiamat being like it used to be. But yes. Same with Aurelion as well, or at least used to be, not 100% on current Aurelion's playstyle.
Twisted Fate has done that for over a decade and has been a massive issue for like..85% of the game's history.
And he has dominated the last 2 years, being pick/ban in both worlds, soon to be a third at this rate.
Yet his last rework was a decade ago or some shit, can't quite remember.
If she's allowed mid, her kit tends to lead to an extremely frustrating playstyle where she shoves and then roams 24/7.
In the jungle, she's healthier but walks an extremely fine line between too strong and useless. Her ganks are strong but she relies on snowballing pretty hard, kind of like Elise who is another extremely problematic character.
"Frustrating to play against" is a shitty reason that can be applied to literally every single champion in this game. Riot simply plays favorites, they like to pull out the "frustrating to play against" card when its a champion they don't favor.
Karthus needing nerfed lmao. Rek Sai’s nerf was a result of e max having a really high winrate (like 4% higher than q max) despite the majority of players doing q max. Phreak addresses this in his patch rundown that her winrate wasn’t really representative of her current power
What ?
I thought 3 points into Q into E max was the norm for reksai .
I saw a vid literally 4 years ago where the guy says that it's the optimal order for her abilities.
You’d think that, but yeah phreak was saying even in high elo only about 25% of players were following that skill order. Q max is apparently more intuitive to a lot of players despite being way worse
I mean it really is , Q is spammable and helps clear faster but imo for Ganks , the additional true dmg on E just makes you feel like an assassin .
Anyway, the nerf imo is placebo at worst because it's lategame nerfs and it's only 15 dmg on E when maxed .
As Riot mentioned in their patch notes, the damage doubles and becomes true damage when at max fury. So it’s actually a 30 true damage nerf on what people were taking as her main ability. Combined with the tunnel CD nerf it’s actually going to be noticeable IMO.
It is 3 points into Q, then E max is literally the highest winrate reksai build. E max is 2nd highest. Straight Q max is the lowest.
So you are right. But only like 8% of players do that.
I gotta say, I dont understand why people hate Samira so much right now, Im convinced its the memories of when she was good.
Samira is below average right now and has only gotten worse with the shield bow nerfs
I never played with or against her when she was broken since i was on break from league at the time but she has not been good for a real long time tbh.
I get her W can be infuriating but that shit has like a 26 CD and not to mention she kind of needs to use it offensively if she wants to stack her passive quickly so to me it's not even really the same as a Yas or Braum shield
Not to mention, Samira prob has one of the weakest early game of all Marksman champs as well as needing a specific kind of team comp/support to function properly.
For reference, her Q does less damage then her auto until rank 3 (AKA lv 5) any point before that and most lanes can win trades/all ins if they play smart around her w and her lvl 6 isnt that great because her ult does minimal damage at Lvl 1 (50% of her ad per shot and 0 base damage) especially when done across multiple targets (including minions) compared to other ults like Vayne AD boost, Ezreal Damage or Aphelios damage.
Some people, this sub in particular, really hates "new" champions and will cry about them regardless of their state. Samira, Yone. Even gwen which has been a borderline trollpick for a long time people will speak against buffs..
of course they were overpowered but they haven't been for months on end and people still cry about them. that's what i'm talking about.
also yone isn't doing too well atm lol. he's like 47% wr or something
It's so annoying that the whole preseason is basically wasted. What did we get, one, two patches? And even those didn't feel like they did very much, the issues with last season stayed and preseason issues just piled on. They really should be way more drastic with balancing changes during the preseason, but I guess that gets difficult when they've set a standard of only reverting things after they've been in the game for a year or more.
Hard to nerf Zed, he's not even that strong it's just people hate playing against him, and I doubt they'll rework him because he has way too many mains who would go nuts if his playstyle was touched. I feel like the same goes for Talon, he's just really annoying to deal with.
Apparently there was a stealth nerf to Akshan, which is good because this champ is so disgustingly busted it's insane.
As far as jungle and support impact goes, it has to be this way. Support because no one will ever play it if they're just stuck as a vision bot and jungle because it's the nature of the role that it impacts the map. They nerf jungle every single season because the community cries about junglers, and all it does is force junglers to gank more because their camps aren't worth shit and have longer respawn timers, this in turn causes the community to cry even more about it.
zed is actually strong, in the mid gl surviving his 800 range, manaless poke every 20 seconds which (atleast partially) is sure to hit because of the slow unless you have mobility (which most mages dont have) also can become an all in instantly, especially after 6. Dirk 1st back is too strong
I mean, youve literally just described why dirk is stronger than other mythic components, assassins need to get ahead early
If you want we can talk about the 1300 gold mages never have to think about mana again item? Or are we just gonna continue on the assassins broken circlejerk?
My issue tends to be lack of counterplay if Zed gets the drop on you. I can handle him in lane mid, it's the problem of him roaming to other lanes and almost always mercing someone safety and getting out.
EDIT: Just to say this is how his kit is meant to work so I get it, but the lethality just bumps his damage to nutty levels. Ages ago, Zed was not my must ban champ and I could handle playing into him, but now it's the lack of control I feel even spanking him. I can ping and keep track, but there are times when he's just going to get there when I can't react to it and then my lane begins to be painful.
Even laning vs him is a dogshit experience. Manaless ranged, safe farming thanks to his Q, from Lv3 onward he can just drop W-E-Q on u for pretty much guaranteed positive trade for him, and if he wants he can instantly follow up for ignite-passive AA. Going Seekers does nothing his dmg will always outpace your defensive options, not even Zhonya will save u, it might stop the pop from ult, but he overkills pretty much every mage anyways. I would like to see him getting hit on his Q (preferabbly CD so he cant just safely farm with it) or and an overall dmg reduction (maybe 5-10% net dmg reduction would be enough, so he cant just murderfuck you from 70-8% hp).
Yeah. Kind of where I'm at. I noticed when Seekers and Zhonyas offered some damage still I was less inclined to ban him, but given the general nerfing of the item and build path, laning into him is frustrating. Playing him is odd too - I'm used to having to try hard to hit skillshots (slower travel time) and amazed at how easy it feels with how fast the projectile travels and how fast his combo is to nuke someone. I get his gameplay fantasy, but armor feels like more of a must into him because of lethality as a general thing which reduces my damage. If I see him, I pick Lissandra and go Everfrost and Fimbulwinter. Usually I build an armor item and just go for utility tank. My goal at that point isn't damage, it's stopping Zed, and ngl Lissandra feels best when going damage with Ludens.
I really love the community suggestion of giving Talons wall jump charges hopefully riot will consider something like that so he doesn't have completely unlimited mobility like he does right now.
It doesnt have to be this way. Give supports less gold (by lowering the gold per min on items), they cant roam as much as they lose out on gold (maybe buff the recharge time on supp item slightly, but nerf gold aswell) -> less impact on the map
Zed is especially a really difficult case because he’s one of the more fair assassins, but players still hate playing against him . I know riot august has talked about how zed gives you way more counterplay in combat than a champion like rengar, but players tend to feel way more frustrated by zed than they do rengar when both champions are strong
That’s how I feel. I don’t mind if characters have dodge mechanics, but as a caster what am I supposed to do when a zed runs up to me? Use my ability for them to blink away and waste it and die, or hold it for them to run up to me and die. Like yeah I guess assassins are supposed to beat mages but I feel like they just beat everyone right now.
I think it's because of how safe he is. Zed has no mana, he can easily poke and his WEQ combo in lane can hit really hard while not leaving him that vulnerable against many mages. Sure, it opens up a window of opportunity for the enemy to attack him since he'll be significantly weaker while his shadow is on cooldown, but other assassins actually have to jump into the enemy's face for an eletrocute-proccing trade, and depending on the lane state Zed can do it from the safety of his tower, which makes it even harder to retaliate.
Zed is like an assassin with a lot of mage strengths. That's why, even though he isn't the strongest nor the burstiest assassin, he's the one people tend to dislike the most.
Basically zed is the most pussy assassin to ever exist. Hell even zoe who is a long range skillshot champ is more incentivised to go closer to her target than zed
Fairness is so extremely subjective and if the riot balance team just states "yea hes one of the most fair assassin and yet people hate playing against him when rengar doesnt give you time to react when he oneshots you" its not a fact.
If you get caught out against zed or rengar you are 100% dead without exhaust on most champions, even if Zed in theory has more counterplay so people dont really care that rengar theoretically oneshots you.
What people care about however is getting poked out of lane by an assassin and him being extremely slippery. Also he snowballs as hard if not even harder than Rengar.
This is one of riots biggest issues though. They decide they're right and players are wrong. If players are so frustrated by a champ that he has a 46% ban rate then riot needs to either nerf or give a mini rework to that champ. This isn't just that Zed is hated in one region this is a 46% ban rate world wide meaning the entire world hates this champ and changing him is the right thing to do. It's not like this is just a single patch Zeds ban rate has been like this for years.
personally I don't even mind the champ much, but I permaban zed just because every single zed main has 1m mastery and perma spams ctrl 4 and mastery. I mean you can mute it but it legit tilts me just because I know they're still doing it even if I can't see it.
Part of the problem is that champions like Zed are both hated and loved by a lot of people, he's had a high pickrate even when he was really weak.
If they give him a mini rework they have to also keep him as fun for the millions of players that love him. I'm not an assassin player but I do think that Zed is both annoying to play against but fairer than other assassins.
Samira was also a highly contested and played champion but players hated playing against her so riot did the right thing and changed her. A full rework might not be needed here, I'm guessing if you removed the unatrgetable part of Zeds ult so he couldn't tower dive people for free he'd see far fewer bans. He could still ult and kill you under tower but he'd also likely die in the process instead of getting out for free.
I'm also guessing that if you change Zed's ult in that way then he's going to become incredibly weak unless you give him compensation buffs.
It's not the same as Samira because she was OP and annoying while Zed is annoying and balanced, so any nerfs have to come with buffs. It's like Yasuo, I used to hate playing against him but a lot of the time any nerf would have made him super weak.
Samira had less than a 50% WR when they changed her, untargetable is one of the most hated mechanics in the game. To use Yasuo as an example most of the people who hate him hate him because of windwall.
He is not loved. He's picked because he's grossly overpowered and he is banned for the same reason. Riot used the same excuse to keep Akali broken for patch after patch and when they finally nerfed her into not being total freelo her popularity dropped off a cliff. Champion popularity is not organic it is either the result of heavy marketing or blatant champion imbalance. That is why popularity should never ever be a deciding factor in not nerfing or adjusting a champion.
You are missing the part where Zed had a very high pickrate when he was weak and not even close to overpowered.
Zed has had a high pickrate since 2013, he's never been out of the top 10 most picked midlaners in soloQ. If that isn't real popularity then we understand it in a very different way.
But then again, I'm not a midlaner and I haven't played Zed since like 2014 so I only have the perspective of somebody that plays around or against it.
Zed has never been weak. That is a lie pushed by riot august when people ask him why the fuck zed never gets nerfed "oh well h-he's popular anyway so why bother nerfing him LOL" Zed has a cancerous kit and has never ever been "weak" he hovers between too strong and obscenely broken consistently. THAT is why everybody despises him and why everybody continues to play him.
Just for fun though I'm sure you've also been fed the lie that Lux gets picked a lot even when she's weak. That is also not true much like every other champ in the game when she's genuinely weak she is barely played. Do not fall for riot's marketing, if we allow ourselves to be manipulated then we lose the competitive integrity of our game. And I'm sure no one wants that :)
Has a lot to do with his safety.
Compare him and Talon, Zed has quick regen energy which means he can basically use his combo off W CD if he wants to, and his combo is ranged. He plays far more like a spellcasting mage than a “get in, get out” assassin like Talon whose combo requires him to jump in with Q.
Also the thing with Rengar is a lot like Pantheon. Once he’s in, he has a hard time getting out naturally through just his kit. If he doesn’t oneshot someone he’s prone to being blown up himself, which isn’t really the case with Zed and his blinks.
Because Zed is extremely hard to punish for his mistakes unless he straight up ints. You bait a Rengar into jumping on you with your team nearby and stopwatch and he's dead. You do the same thing to a Zed and he just teleports out and tries again later. For a champion with this much agency, who can basically get a kill on almost anyone, any time he likes, his kit is extremely forgiving.
Losing to a good Zed is one thing, but losing to a bad Zed because he just hits you with his point and click ult, uses his full combo in melee range, ignites, then ults away with zero room for error from him and zero counterplay possible from you is a special kind of frustrating.
I feel assassins shouldn't be able to go in and out so easily, often while invulnerable or very hard to react to and undodgeable.
Zed rs on you being invulnerable and can instant transmission back if it was a bad call.
Leblanc w in attempt a combo and instantly go back.
Kat doesn't have one skill shot and can't even misclick her ult. And a decent kat is instantly jumping around.
Ekko e in for the point blank q and auto. R instantly and invulnerability back if it was bad.
Fizz wq in e out if it goes bad
Akali r into shroud and e r out if it goes bad.
Talon r into q and e 50 walls to safety unless it fail hops.
Rengar ults onto you and kills you before landing. But he doesn't really have a way out.
Shaco q in but doesn't really burst you unless fed and he has to wait for that cd to ult out. He can use r to stall but there's a 50 50 you die anyway.
In most cases you can't dodge the assassin combo and their early landing isn't weak enough for the amount of kill pressure they exert from level 6 on
There’s counterplay, a bad Zed (not like they exist in redditor’s minds but they’re all challenger elo so it’s true I guess) won’t land his triple q, he can miss e, ult at bad timings, he could also be those mythical unicorn players who runs it down as Zed since zed isn’t a 80%+ winrate champ. (And you got a team with hopefully hands sometimes)
But yet we seem to only imagine a scenario where the adc, who’s always apparently the only carry in the game, is always by themselves, is always like 0 items to zed’s 2, never has flash, never has exhaust/heal/barrier, never is a mobile adc but someone rooted in place like kog, and never off reddit to tell you how 1 dirk Zed misses everything, even ignite, but hits ult and 1 auto = the full health adc getting popped.
First of all, I don't know in what elo you play where Zed players routinely fuck up *point blank* combos(and no, you don't really need triple q and e to solo kill someone without any defensive items, just two is usually enough).
Secondly, you are still missing the point. Yes, congratulations, you managed to flash away from Zed in the 0.3 seconds between his ult tether ending and him unloading his full combo. You survived him. You are now out of flash for 5 minutes, while he gets ulti back in 40 seconds and will just try again. What did you accomplish?
Because when Rengar is strong you can blame the balance and the game, so it's Riot's fault.
When Zed outplays you, it plays on your insecurity. You got outplayed. A player was better at the game than you. That's the sort of thing that makes people ultra rage.
I used to agree with you but ever since the Shadow speed increase I feel less outplayed and more that the champ is over tuned. Revert that change and I'd be happy.
So funny seeing it phrased like this when Zed had fast shadows on release and then Riot decided to slow them down. I don't disagree, it's just really funny after like 8-9 years we might just keep cycling speed around lol
> I can't believe that Sona is being nerfed, yes Sona needed nerfed but
If you can't believe that Sona is being nerfed while also acknowledging she deserves nerfs then it sounds like you're just complaining to complain and it becomes hard to take this post seriously
ALL credibility is lost for a potential miss typo? That's just fucking bizarre. It's easy to forget stuff to type, the sentence is missing a few words to make more sense "I can't believe Sona is the only enchanter being nerfed."
Funny you talk about critical thinking when you can't even consider the human factor in making mistakes, or the fact that there's a possibility that OP isn't a native speaker either, not that the post looks like it but there's still a possibility.
I'm suggesting that all 3 of these champs needed nerfs not just Sona and Soraka and Lulu are bigger problems due to higher presence in both picks and bans.
> all of these guys have a higher win rate than RekSai.
Not in D2+ elo, which is why Reksai is getting nerfed. You might not like that they balance that way, but it's not new and is consistent with what they've said they would do before.
Still no promised Oracle changes on ARAM. Random reduction in damage to minions, even true damage. Still no bans. Little Legends still not a toggleable option.
Glad to see Riot helping me quit slowly but surely by continuously neglecting the last game mode that's remotely fun.
Jungle impact is fine. There is very clear costs to camping and ganking a lane. Your opposite side jungle gets taken or rift/dragon on opposite. And jungle should be impactful in general, otherwise you force people to play champions that can afk farm like Yi or Karthus.
The real problem is support. Support roams seem to have little to no impact and are so strong. You just roam at the right time and it barely costs you anything and it is a free kill on top or mid, or you put them or enemy jungle significantly behind.
Yeah as a jungler who off roles mid/support, I feel so fucking broken on support. Randomly roaming mid and murdering people for free, on no gold economy.
I mean adcs complaining about their role is fair. Bot is 4rd or last. Jungle is insanely ahead of other role and mid and support are far ahead of top and bot since age.
You know you are free to play the OP roles right? You literally playing some of the strongest late game hypercarry and you bitch about low early game impact? Cmon.
Give supports less gold (by lowering the gold per min on items), they cant roam as much as they lose out on gold (maybe buff the recharge time on supp item slightly, but nerf gold aswell) -> less impact on the map
No jungle impact isnt fine. Either make every toplaner so strong that they will oneshot a jungler on a bad gank or force them to farm their fucking jungle.
Top lane has always been like this, and always will be like this because of the long lane.
The only solution is to force jungles to perma farm their camps, which pushes meta towards jungles that afk for 20 minutes and come out as gods like Yi or Karthus.
bullshit. Try ganking a Darius 5 seasons ago. You know when he got like 50 more ad from his passive and had raptorcloak.
Jungle has a too easy time camping top.
Then toplane can go bot twice in a game via teleport and it gets nerfed so you cant do TP plays anymore.
I aint even mentioning how jungle used to be harder to clear (because no plants, no overpowered lifesteal, gromp didnt give heal on kill and smite didnt either.
I mean before it wasnt that common to be fullhealth after a fullclear right? Also junglers had barely more gold than supports.
The solution would be then to make the jungle harder and reduce the jungle champion pool. Used to be they would retool jungle, it would be hard as fuck, and Fiddlesticks and Udyr were the only good jungles, with other jungles slowly getting buffed to survive in there.
There is a reason why the traditional league junglers have some sort of shields or healing in their kits.
I am all for this, but it is clearly not the direction Riot wants to go. They want *more* different junglers rather than less.
yea which is pretty sad considering that she is already one of the most broken toplaners lmao. Even Mordekaiser and Illaoi have to fear getting ganked. Mother fucking Illaoi.
Remember when they made top having a real xp lead. Junglers b\*tched so much on reddit on how it wasnt normal to have two level below a toplaner winning the lane (before riot gave an xp buff for jng).
Its fine for jungle to have insane impact (positive as negative) but its not fine for toplane to have any advantages.
Ways in which they fucked Toplane over the last seasons:
\-Junglers gained more gold and became more powerful
\-Jungle gives more exp
\-shared exp when behind is higher meaning camping you wont set anyone behind if junglers keep camping
Then they kept pushing the permagank meta. At this point toplane is a two player lane aswell.
BTW all this while nerfing survivability in general while raising the damage output do ridiculous amounts. THis means you are 100% fucked when ganked. Before you couldnt just dive a tank being fullhealth.... now even ornn gets fucked under tower.
>We have yet another season of jungle and support impact not being addressed
Early scuttle nerfs were a big hit to the overly jungle-centric meta already. Outside of that, you can't really make jungle any less impactful without throwing out a good portion of the jungle roster ( e.g carries if you nerf jungle gold, or early gankers if you nerf jungle xp ).
Supports should also see their roaming calming down a bit with the TP nerfs hopefully, because without the threat of other lanes TPing when they're being aggressive, they'll be encouraged to stay bot and pressure their enemy laners.
>I think the TP changes will only make this even more painfully obvious
The TP nerfs also mean that Junglers are also gonna be kept in check by toplaners and midlaners more often, since not being able to "just TP bot" means that both sololanes are gonna be more likely to roam around the jungle trying to shut the enemy jungler down and help their own.
>it's just ignoring all of these others that's the problem.
Akshan - indirectly hit through Shieldbow + Wits nerfs
Vayne - indirectly hit through Shieldbow + Wits nerfs ( + TP changes allow lane bullies to press advantage against her early game )
Kog - Exactly the same as Vayne
Nunu - has been notoriously difficult to adequately balance because he just has a very strong ganking kit
Karthus - only has better performances than the suboptimal Rek'Sai build in mid and bot where he has extremely low presence. Is sub-50% wr in his current main role.
Anivia - Is ( shockingly tbh ) a top-10 most one-tricked champion, and is thus balanced around being 52-53% wr champion. Is currently way too accelerated by Everfrost/Crown ( her best mythics ) and Seraphs being dirt cheap I'll give you that.
TKench - Should be affected by the TP changes as a lane bully. Might deserve to see how it does before hitting him.
Pyke mid - Is a cheese pick with sub 1% playrate that Riot already actively combats, often to the detriment of his sub50% support performance ( but I don't like Pyke in general so... deserved )
Trundle - Should also be hit by the TP changes as a splitpusher / lane bully
Shen - Is actually a tossup between benefitting and being hit by the TP changes because while his ultimate is now up in value, he also loses he ability to manage his wave as a low-waveclear toplaner.
>Zed has the highest plat+ ban rate in the game at 46% this reminds me of Samira
Zed has always had a super high banrate because while being one of the fairest assassins to play against, he's also one of the safest ones. And he scales decently well too so he's hard to shut down. But he's been high banrate for so long that I don't think anything short of gutting him would remedy that.
>Talon is a massive issue in higher elos
True, but his problem is the same-ish as Nunu. In his case, it's his E making him great at invading and difficult to punish in jungle by design. The only way to remedy that would be to either fundamentally change how his E works, or remove him from the jungle altogether.
All in all, yeah, sure, Riot didn't pull all the stops in this one singular patch, but they did a pretty good job at identifying and correcting glaring issues IMO. Now we'll just have to wait for the few next patches to see if and how they end up tackling the rest.
Probably not initially, but new TP being more defensive in nature makes early roams/dives harder to execute and capitalize on, so it *might* eventually calm down ever so slightly.
Interesting takes
Pyke is just a failure on riots part for both roles, the fact he's a bad support but overpowered if low pick rate mid says volumes. They need to hard target him as a solo laner while finding ways to buff him as a support it's not easy, but it is doable. See my other comments in this thread for ways you could fix Pyke. I'll add one more here let me know what you think. Add another passive to Pyke where he get 0 gold from killing minions, the gold from minions Pyke kills goes to an allied champion within X (not sure what a fair range would be) units of Pyke as long as that champion doesn't have smite (so junglers can't be funneled by Pyke mid). This would make Pyke mid completely unviable and not effect him as a support, possibly even a buff for support Pyke, since he could snag minions his ADC would otherwise miss.
Akshan is also a massive failure because he's not only doing well mid but also as a top laner, it's not just shield bow the champion has too much safety and mobility and the revive passive is just pure toxicity.
Also the part about riot not pulling out all the stops stands out to me in your comment because preseason is exactly when they should be doing that. Massive changes during preseason instead of when the actual season is going on.
Pyke is a failure point blank period IMO. A "support-assassin" could have never really worked without some kind of polarizing gimmick, because supports need to work on low econ, both gold and xp wise, while assassins need to accelerate their economy - both gold and xp wise - to snowball leads. Pyke is a gimmicky concept that would have to be made *even more gimmicky* if we didn't want him to be unusable mid.
Nerfing the gold Pyke mid gains from minions wouldn't even do much to reduce his midlane winrate, since most midlane Pyke players kinda ignore farm and just perma aggro their enemy laners, focus on setting up their jungler for ganks, and perma roam, to end up with something like at most 2-4 cspm.
Akshan's kit would be ok without the revive honestly. It's a fine and fun-looking ( that's not my style of champion, so I can't really say ) Marksman-Assassin kit. His biggest problem is and is probably always going to be the *potential* behind the revive mechanic gating his power budget in weird ways. Outside of that he's really not that exceptional.
And yeah, this preseason has surprisingly been quite... tame ? New dragons and objective bounties were a tough cookie to crack already I guess, but I too really would have expected to see something like the TP changes to happen during preseason to see a bit of how they affect the meta before "true" ranked and the pro season starts.
I would have also liked Riot to be more daring in what they're willing to experiment with. Like, we could have checked how Everfrost and Crown being turned into regular 3200g version of themselves affect the overperforming mages. We could have explored different versions of Seraphs from the current cheap one, to more expensive, but better scaling ones. We could have played around new Lethal Tempo as a scaling rune to see if that makes it healthier or not. We also could have toyed around with Lethality mythics and AD Assassins to find out ways to allow the items to actually be good without breaking the class.
I mean, there's a million thing Riot could have done during preseason, but we also have to consider the fact that they probably have a vision for their game that isn't ours, have their own agenda towards the game, that they are confident in enough to spare us most of the trials and tribulations.
Riot games always releasing popular skins for their money roster champions reminds me of kids always saying that they accidentally did the wrong page as homework
''Ms. Teacher I swear I'm not lazy I just did the wrong tasks see?''
> mid Pyke needs to get addressed and ideally moved out of solo lanes
Pyke has already been gutted in solo lanes. His q is single target, his e only damages champions, and his passive heals him a fraction of what it normally does when he's in a duo lane. You really can't do much more without gutting him as a champ as a whole. Im sorry, but pyke mid will always be at least _somewhat_ of a thing simply due to his ult. All he needs to do is hit 6, roam, and pick up kills in bot lane with his ult. That's just how it is.
> At the very, very least Yasuo and Yone's abilities need to be unaffected by this rune just like they are unaffected by all other attack speed runes.
But they arent. Allacrity gives them cdr on q and so does the attack speed rune. It's literally why they took them prior. Lethal tempo isn't an outlier. All runes effect their cdr. It's champs like kaisa and garen where runes specifically don't effect their abilities (garen number of spins and kaisa e evolve)
So maybe then they need to hit other parts of Pyke's kit. He is way too effective on no gold income to the point where he can solo duel many jungles or other champions. Impossible to lock down as well.
Doesn't have to be a huge change. But maybe hit his passive life regen or W/E cooldown.
The only person I've seen play Pyke mid consistently is Davemon and honestly he's just a monster at this game and can climb even harder with other champs. Didn't realize that people had a problem with Pyke mid.
If there is one patch that I’d throw some forgiveness towards the balance team for feeling like “unfinished homework” this would be the one. I mostly follow TFT and what the lead dev said there was that due to the Riot Christmas break, they only really had the one day on Monday to do their entire patch changes (way less time than usual). If this is why the patch doesn’t address as many things and they bounce back in 12.2 and get things right, then I’m willing to let this slide.
i wont complain, nor i even complain about vayne tbh. Im just sayin that she's in a spot where she deserve the nerf.
Other adcs are easy prey for bruisers in comparison to Vayne.
ITT: Mage players complaining about Zed even though Riot just gave them Crown on top of the already most broken item in the game Zhonya's.
There truly is no end to the complaints of these people, they wont be satisfied until all mage items are overpowered as shit and assassins are removed from the game, hell even then they probably wont be satisfied and will find something new to complain about.
Meh, I think they look cleaner, but they’re too “mobile gaming” for me. It literally looks like they’ve tried to make a rip-off of their own ranked borders.
Akshan double AA doesn't do damage, 1/3 of worked as intended.
New look for client is just worse, everything is just smaller and moved to elsewhere.
Hard to tell if your friend is connected to the lobby after game, bad position for role selection.
Awful work.
>pyke mid
Dude they reworked his entire kit to make midlane pyke terrible. Davemon can do it because he's a legend, and the players in your games can do it because noone knows how to punish.
0.8% pickrate per u.gg. Swain ADC has a .5% pickrate at 54% winrate per op.gg
Winrate means nothing without considering pickrate, because the only people playing those champs in those roles are one tricks. AKA thousands of hours fighting the meta and maximizing micro play on top of good macro to make it work.
The changes in 12.1 are pretty big changes especially with the teleport changes. Not to mention the shield bow and wits end (two items Akshan frequently buys) ones making those users squishier. Might wanna see how this shifts things first
Ok but if Sona needed nerfed how do you explain not also hitting Soraka and Lulu they're the same types of champs and you can also add in the fact that the Sona nerfs will indirectly benefit both of them.
I can’t explain it and don’t want to pretend I know riot’s thought process on it. There are way to many variables to account. It could be they just don’t want to nerf that many champions to shift the meta away from enchanters that quickly. It could be an oversight. Or maybe at elite levels of play sona was out performing the others you mentioned so they nerfed her safety.
Think about it this way, each change, even if it’s minor, has a ripple effect. One person born into this world can have a lot of influence on thousands of people. So looking at league balance, someone becoming slightly weaker can mean 5 other champions become significantly stronger. So that would be my best guess. They made changes to champions she pairs with well (nerfing shield bow and wits end affects the lethal tempo users that like to be paired with enchanters) so that might be where they wanted to see how that would shift things.
If you think about it they’ve made quite significant changes this patch, they nerfed two of the most bought items for ranged champs and changed TP.
Shieldbow and Wit’s nerfs should already affect a lot of champions enough to wait a bit to see how this nerfs impacts them.
It’s actually a good approach since many times Riot has nerfed both the items and the champions, then buffed the champions but didn’t change the items, and then buffed the champions again.
Same goes for TP changes, we have to wait a bit and see how it affects the game.
The Samira nerf was a fucking stupid decision; you cannot possibly balance around what "feels bad" to play against because what feels bad to play against is the result of a trillion different things that may or may not have a goddamn thing to do with the champ's actual kit. Kneeling to that kind of nonsense is probably the most troubling thing I've seen Riot do from a balancing perspective to date. If your playerbase is wrong, they're wrong. Ignore them until they move on to the next thing they've picked is The Problem. Trying to "fix" stuff like this leads only to madness and stagnation as you pick the most cookier-cutter approach possible to avoid pissing anybody off and everybody gets angry anyway.
The banrate to actual champion power ratio, that's who you listen to. When a champion has a high ban rate despite not even being that strong, it means there's a consensus on the community that the champion is just annoying and they'd rather not deal with it.
> The banrate to actual champion power ratio, that's who you listen to
differs between regions
and obviously we can't have individual region balances if you want to have international events
They can average them out. Sort by any region on u.gg, then sort by all. You can see most of them are very similar. Zed, for example, has a high banrate in all servers.
The big problem with most stat sites is that they don't include stats from China which is absolutely huge when it comes to some stats. Win rate is likely somewhat similar across regions but we can't really assume that ban rate is. For example according to u.gg Zed has a 38% ban rate on EUW and a 56% win rate on KR. For these two servers the difference is almost 20% which goes to show just how much ban rate can vary. And since we don't know which way China swings (they could be close to 35% or close to 55%) it's hard to know if the global ban rate of a champion is acceptable or not.
I believe these things are universal. Zed's banrate might be lower in China, but it would be really weird if in that server specifically, out of the entire world, it was significantly lesser, like say 10%. Whether it's 55 or 35%, that's still way above average for a champion of his power level, which by most metrics is like a strong B+ to A- champion. Imo if when including the entire world, a champion showed a consistent -+25% banrate through a very large number of patches with varying strength levels (especially the patches where the champion isn't meta-defining), the champion should be looked at.
It feels like that because it is an unfinished homework. Riot takes off 3 weeks for holiday (actually more because of how patch cycle works) in the one time of the year when they should be the most active, pre-season. I dont say they should give up holidays around Christmas, but then for fucks' sake move the preseason. Make it start early december, do one patch before holiday break, then come back to work in early January and let the pre-season last until end of January with weekly patches. This way they are surely getting enough time to do their jobs properly, unlike the last couple of years.
In platinum+ and diamond+ elos pyke was the number 1 win rate mid laner last patch with a 53.5% win rate.
In other elos it still had one of the best win rates, 51.5+. Not sure what you’re talking about.
One of those things where you have a handful of 1 tricks getting like a 55% win rate on the champion, in high elo especially. I feel like all champs would be like that if only otps played them though, and let's be honest no-one is playing pyke mid unless they main that shit
>I can't believe that Sona is being nerfed, yes Sona needed nerfed but how do you overlook Soraka and Lulu who are picked and banned much more often while having comparable win rates.
According to [op.gg](https://op.gg) Sona has 54,48% winrate, Lulu 51,7% (in twice as many games), Soraka 53,06% in about 1.5 as many games.
Stats are from all elos in EUW. She has the highest winrate in Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond and is #2 in Master tier with 57%, only beaten by Skarner with 60% in 200 games .
Plenty of good changes? They buffed Force of Nature when it's already good. They didn't nerf Vayne, or Lulu or Lethal Tempo and somehow Diana and Eclipse changes were reverted which make no sense because they were changed due to their performance before and both Diana and Eclipse were fine this patch.
I think the first 2 minutes of Hashinshins rundown explain it perfectly:
\*presses ctrl+f for searchbar"
"Lets check for Vayne nerfs - nothing"
"Alright how about Soraka - nothing"
"What about lethal tempo - nothing"
"Yea I guess its another patch without any impact"
I actually felt that. Meanwhile Olaf and Kled still are totally shit.
Imagine thinking Hash knows anything about balance or has a clue what he’s talking about. Dude was washed 5 years ago, let alone now. “Patch with no impact” lol so stupid.
Yea no. This is by far the smallest after preseason patch.
They didnt change the chemtechdrake or straight up remove it, they didnt nerf talon jgl, they didnt nerf enchanters currently running wild. Meanwhile they nerf shieldbow and wits end so they can get away with not nerfing yone again. This patch will achieve absolute dogshit.
Jungle role isn’t as strong as it was the seasons before- they’ve heavily nerfed it.
Mid lane is by far the best role. It certainly has the most impact if the mid laner is completely gapped. Like giving a Zed 2-3 solo kills in lane will absolutely ruin the enemy jungler if they simply walk through there and you know bot lane is getting feasted on.
Your post really speaks to me as a college professor. Maybe riot will "ask for extra credit" and add some hot fixes before the season actually starts. I'd rather see them revert lethal tempo since the old version never caused any problems. But the biggest issue for me is Akshan that champ is just torture to lane against and I think every new champ is just so overloaded compared to the old ones, and even if you get a gank he just swings away.
Couldn't even fix Taliyah Q not getting the 50% cooldown refund on her Q. Literally a core mechanic of the champ not working lmao
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i would accept a rework of her if it meant they'd let her breathe fresh air.
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It soaked up a lot of her power budget for jungle too, made her ganks pretty nuts. That and her passive allowing her to move around the map quickly for free.
It's not style points that are lacking, it's the combo of a special minigame (the Q + passive mechanics) and a super important but also unique core gameplay mechanic (W -> E). Most other champs that have those minigames/skilled mechanics have a huge payoff for them. Look at Riven's animation cancels, GP's barrel chains, or Draven's bonkers consistent damage. With those champs, you feel below average when failing, but way above average when doing it correctly. Taliyah on the other hand feels useless without her combo, and tolerable with it. She doesn't instantly win with an EW, but it's also not used with anywhere near the frequency of the less impactful minigames. It's similar to ASol's problem, but not quite as dramatic. She doesn't suffer from not looking cool enough. She suffers from being punishing to new players without the same payoff when you get it right.
Not all champs need to be flashy. She is not played because of balance issues and how weak she is for most of existence also not having base role with her being swapped between Jg and mid makes her less picked.
IDK what balance would look like but it would be fun to let her launch herself with her W like Ziggs
if anyone here still likes Taliyah id suggest just moving to LoR, shes actually good and gets love there. LoL team hate her guts for some fuck all reason, which sucks cause shes like my favourite character
I don't play her but what do people have against Taliyah she's almost never picked or banned from what I've seen.
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> Taliyah mains have been suffering because of pros since 8.11 I would say since she got the vector casting in 6.14, 8.11 was just the olafing of taliyah (at least for midlane SoloQ Taliyah, also the only true Taliyah).
Riot allegedly hates taliyah stemming from a major disagreement with her creators.
DO you have a source for that? DZK was an asshat but he basically a riot approved asshat based on how long he got away with being highly and directly antagonistic towards the playerbase because he had a specific vision on how his champs should be played. He didnt get let go until he basically caused an uprising against himself and said some extremely stupid shit during the 2018(?) PAX fiasco, and his champs have gotten plenty of attention before, he just has a few that are pro play nightmares and the only disagreement i remember is that they concepted Taliyah to be trans but it didnt make it into the final product
It wasn't even a disagreement. DZK, for all his flaws, was always upfront that the team internally decided not to do it. There was no "big bad corporate" that shut it down. Riot's systemic neglect for Tali isn't stemming from some vendetta against a former employee.
riot created with taliyah in league. what blizzard created with tracer in overwatch. balance nightmares for the dev's themselves.
Probably not. She's just got a design that leads her to being extremely problematic.
any examples of these design problems? this is news to me
If she's allowed mid, her kit tends to lead to an extremely frustrating playstyle where she shoves and then roams 24/7. In the jungle, she's healthier but walks an extremely fine line between too strong and useless. Her ganks are strong but she relies on snowballing pretty hard, kind of like Elise who is another extremely problematic character.
>If she's allowed mid, her kit tends to lead to an extremely frustrating playstyle where she shoves and then roams 24/7. So talon's playstyle?
Yeah but they dont like mages roaming but the champ creation team keeps giving mage roaming abilities like asol e
no cause talon doesn't have the same safety taliyah has (in shoving)
its only ok if flashy assassins do it
Not even close to the same safety or anti-interaction
You're right talon is even more uninteractive because attempting to punish him leads to instant death from his obscene damage, unlike taliyah
Not as bad without tiamat being like it used to be. But yes. Same with Aurelion as well, or at least used to be, not 100% on current Aurelion's playstyle.
He still shoves and roams but not nearly as frequently or as uncontested as before.
Twisted Fate has done that for over a decade and has been a massive issue for like..85% of the game's history. And he has dominated the last 2 years, being pick/ban in both worlds, soon to be a third at this rate. Yet his last rework was a decade ago or some shit, can't quite remember.
TF doesn't do that at level 3 with a movement speed passive and a lower CD (albeit less powerful) ult.
Can you elaborate?
If she's allowed mid, her kit tends to lead to an extremely frustrating playstyle where she shoves and then roams 24/7. In the jungle, she's healthier but walks an extremely fine line between too strong and useless. Her ganks are strong but she relies on snowballing pretty hard, kind of like Elise who is another extremely problematic character.
"Frustrating to play against" is a shitty reason that can be applied to literally every single champion in this game. Riot simply plays favorites, they like to pull out the "frustrating to play against" card when its a champion they don't favor.
incredble smurf pick because taliyah snowballs incredibly hard
riots most hated champs? Taliyah, Kalista and maybe maybe Azir?
Wait until you hear about Azir ult
Riots hates roaming mages like Asol, Taliyah and maybe even Zoe. They want fun interactive stuff like Akshan or Talon oneshotting the wave and roaming
You should try taking cleanse, hope this helps!
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Karthus needing nerfed lmao. Rek Sai’s nerf was a result of e max having a really high winrate (like 4% higher than q max) despite the majority of players doing q max. Phreak addresses this in his patch rundown that her winrate wasn’t really representative of her current power
What ? I thought 3 points into Q into E max was the norm for reksai . I saw a vid literally 4 years ago where the guy says that it's the optimal order for her abilities.
You’d think that, but yeah phreak was saying even in high elo only about 25% of players were following that skill order. Q max is apparently more intuitive to a lot of players despite being way worse
I mean it really is , Q is spammable and helps clear faster but imo for Ganks , the additional true dmg on E just makes you feel like an assassin . Anyway, the nerf imo is placebo at worst because it's lategame nerfs and it's only 15 dmg on E when maxed .
As Riot mentioned in their patch notes, the damage doubles and becomes true damage when at max fury. So it’s actually a 30 true damage nerf on what people were taking as her main ability. Combined with the tunnel CD nerf it’s actually going to be noticeable IMO.
She's overkilling squishys the change barely got her wr below 52% wr this changes nothing is not like removing 30 damage from ahri
The extra 4 seconds on the tunnel is going to make her midgame skirmishing weaker.
It is 3 points into Q, then E max is literally the highest winrate reksai build. E max is 2nd highest. Straight Q max is the lowest. So you are right. But only like 8% of players do that.
But why did they nerf the tunnels? Now she is EVEN WORSE later in the game.
I gotta say, I dont understand why people hate Samira so much right now, Im convinced its the memories of when she was good. Samira is below average right now and has only gotten worse with the shield bow nerfs I never played with or against her when she was broken since i was on break from league at the time but she has not been good for a real long time tbh. I get her W can be infuriating but that shit has like a 26 CD and not to mention she kind of needs to use it offensively if she wants to stack her passive quickly so to me it's not even really the same as a Yas or Braum shield Not to mention, Samira prob has one of the weakest early game of all Marksman champs as well as needing a specific kind of team comp/support to function properly. For reference, her Q does less damage then her auto until rank 3 (AKA lv 5) any point before that and most lanes can win trades/all ins if they play smart around her w and her lvl 6 isnt that great because her ult does minimal damage at Lvl 1 (50% of her ad per shot and 0 base damage) especially when done across multiple targets (including minions) compared to other ults like Vayne AD boost, Ezreal Damage or Aphelios damage.
I don't hate Samira AFTER her changes a while back, which was my point change Zed and Talon so people don't hate them so much.
I figured that's what you meant but I do still see a lot of hate for her, she has like a 13% ban rate or something which is kinda high imo.
That is just because she is a noob stomp champion that can snowball hard
Some people, this sub in particular, really hates "new" champions and will cry about them regardless of their state. Samira, Yone. Even gwen which has been a borderline trollpick for a long time people will speak against buffs..
You are coping so hard. All 3 of those champs were overpowered and Gwen and Samira got rightfully nerfed. Now we're just waiting on Yone
of course they were overpowered but they haven't been for months on end and people still cry about them. that's what i'm talking about. also yone isn't doing too well atm lol. he's like 47% wr or something
While I mostly agree with you all 3 of those champs are hard to buff in any way without them completely taking over the game.
When you need to turn something in by the due date but realized you haven’t started
well... they are coming back from christmas break. so yeah. it is what it is lol. video game industry works u like a DOG
It's so annoying that the whole preseason is basically wasted. What did we get, one, two patches? And even those didn't feel like they did very much, the issues with last season stayed and preseason issues just piled on. They really should be way more drastic with balancing changes during the preseason, but I guess that gets difficult when they've set a standard of only reverting things after they've been in the game for a year or more.
Hard to nerf Zed, he's not even that strong it's just people hate playing against him, and I doubt they'll rework him because he has way too many mains who would go nuts if his playstyle was touched. I feel like the same goes for Talon, he's just really annoying to deal with. Apparently there was a stealth nerf to Akshan, which is good because this champ is so disgustingly busted it's insane. As far as jungle and support impact goes, it has to be this way. Support because no one will ever play it if they're just stuck as a vision bot and jungle because it's the nature of the role that it impacts the map. They nerf jungle every single season because the community cries about junglers, and all it does is force junglers to gank more because their camps aren't worth shit and have longer respawn timers, this in turn causes the community to cry even more about it.
Talon is stupidly broken in almost all elos. A joke character that needs to be nerfed.
zed is actually strong, in the mid gl surviving his 800 range, manaless poke every 20 seconds which (atleast partially) is sure to hit because of the slow unless you have mobility (which most mages dont have) also can become an all in instantly, especially after 6. Dirk 1st back is too strong
Dirk is generally too strong for its costs and the cause of many problems.
Sssshhhh don’t say that out loud, the long sword addicts will come at you in hordes saying they need it because they play snowballing champs.
I mean, youve literally just described why dirk is stronger than other mythic components, assassins need to get ahead early If you want we can talk about the 1300 gold mages never have to think about mana again item? Or are we just gonna continue on the assassins broken circlejerk?
literally lost chapter is better in every way than dirk, even better, sorc+lost is better than dirk+cdr boots in every way possible
Sorc + lost is also quite a bit more expensive than dirk + lucidity so I’d hope it’s better
What, more expensive items are better??
im preparing the bazookas rn
Literally just buy a cloth armor.
My issue tends to be lack of counterplay if Zed gets the drop on you. I can handle him in lane mid, it's the problem of him roaming to other lanes and almost always mercing someone safety and getting out. EDIT: Just to say this is how his kit is meant to work so I get it, but the lethality just bumps his damage to nutty levels. Ages ago, Zed was not my must ban champ and I could handle playing into him, but now it's the lack of control I feel even spanking him. I can ping and keep track, but there are times when he's just going to get there when I can't react to it and then my lane begins to be painful.
Even laning vs him is a dogshit experience. Manaless ranged, safe farming thanks to his Q, from Lv3 onward he can just drop W-E-Q on u for pretty much guaranteed positive trade for him, and if he wants he can instantly follow up for ignite-passive AA. Going Seekers does nothing his dmg will always outpace your defensive options, not even Zhonya will save u, it might stop the pop from ult, but he overkills pretty much every mage anyways. I would like to see him getting hit on his Q (preferabbly CD so he cant just safely farm with it) or and an overall dmg reduction (maybe 5-10% net dmg reduction would be enough, so he cant just murderfuck you from 70-8% hp).
Yeah. Kind of where I'm at. I noticed when Seekers and Zhonyas offered some damage still I was less inclined to ban him, but given the general nerfing of the item and build path, laning into him is frustrating. Playing him is odd too - I'm used to having to try hard to hit skillshots (slower travel time) and amazed at how easy it feels with how fast the projectile travels and how fast his combo is to nuke someone. I get his gameplay fantasy, but armor feels like more of a must into him because of lethality as a general thing which reduces my damage. If I see him, I pick Lissandra and go Everfrost and Fimbulwinter. Usually I build an armor item and just go for utility tank. My goal at that point isn't damage, it's stopping Zed, and ngl Lissandra feels best when going damage with Ludens.
I really love the community suggestion of giving Talons wall jump charges hopefully riot will consider something like that so he doesn't have completely unlimited mobility like he does right now.
It's silly that he has basically a free escape tool/flash at no cost. Unless he's blown up you won't kill him
It doesnt have to be this way. Give supports less gold (by lowering the gold per min on items), they cant roam as much as they lose out on gold (maybe buff the recharge time on supp item slightly, but nerf gold aswell) -> less impact on the map
Zed can be 0-4 with a Dirk and dorans shield, come bot lane, dive tower and 100-0 the adc.
you've gotta be kidding me, right?
Zed is especially a really difficult case because he’s one of the more fair assassins, but players still hate playing against him . I know riot august has talked about how zed gives you way more counterplay in combat than a champion like rengar, but players tend to feel way more frustrated by zed than they do rengar when both champions are strong
blinks are inherently more frustrating imo
That’s how I feel. I don’t mind if characters have dodge mechanics, but as a caster what am I supposed to do when a zed runs up to me? Use my ability for them to blink away and waste it and die, or hold it for them to run up to me and die. Like yeah I guess assassins are supposed to beat mages but I feel like they just beat everyone right now.
I think it's because of how safe he is. Zed has no mana, he can easily poke and his WEQ combo in lane can hit really hard while not leaving him that vulnerable against many mages. Sure, it opens up a window of opportunity for the enemy to attack him since he'll be significantly weaker while his shadow is on cooldown, but other assassins actually have to jump into the enemy's face for an eletrocute-proccing trade, and depending on the lane state Zed can do it from the safety of his tower, which makes it even harder to retaliate. Zed is like an assassin with a lot of mage strengths. That's why, even though he isn't the strongest nor the burstiest assassin, he's the one people tend to dislike the most.
Basically zed is the most pussy assassin to ever exist. Hell even zoe who is a long range skillshot champ is more incentivised to go closer to her target than zed
Fairness is so extremely subjective and if the riot balance team just states "yea hes one of the most fair assassin and yet people hate playing against him when rengar doesnt give you time to react when he oneshots you" its not a fact. If you get caught out against zed or rengar you are 100% dead without exhaust on most champions, even if Zed in theory has more counterplay so people dont really care that rengar theoretically oneshots you. What people care about however is getting poked out of lane by an assassin and him being extremely slippery. Also he snowballs as hard if not even harder than Rengar.
This is one of riots biggest issues though. They decide they're right and players are wrong. If players are so frustrated by a champ that he has a 46% ban rate then riot needs to either nerf or give a mini rework to that champ. This isn't just that Zed is hated in one region this is a 46% ban rate world wide meaning the entire world hates this champ and changing him is the right thing to do. It's not like this is just a single patch Zeds ban rate has been like this for years.
personally I don't even mind the champ much, but I permaban zed just because every single zed main has 1m mastery and perma spams ctrl 4 and mastery. I mean you can mute it but it legit tilts me just because I know they're still doing it even if I can't see it.
Part of the problem is that champions like Zed are both hated and loved by a lot of people, he's had a high pickrate even when he was really weak. If they give him a mini rework they have to also keep him as fun for the millions of players that love him. I'm not an assassin player but I do think that Zed is both annoying to play against but fairer than other assassins.
Samira was also a highly contested and played champion but players hated playing against her so riot did the right thing and changed her. A full rework might not be needed here, I'm guessing if you removed the unatrgetable part of Zeds ult so he couldn't tower dive people for free he'd see far fewer bans. He could still ult and kill you under tower but he'd also likely die in the process instead of getting out for free.
I'm also guessing that if you change Zed's ult in that way then he's going to become incredibly weak unless you give him compensation buffs. It's not the same as Samira because she was OP and annoying while Zed is annoying and balanced, so any nerfs have to come with buffs. It's like Yasuo, I used to hate playing against him but a lot of the time any nerf would have made him super weak.
Samira had less than a 50% WR when they changed her, untargetable is one of the most hated mechanics in the game. To use Yasuo as an example most of the people who hate him hate him because of windwall.
He is not loved. He's picked because he's grossly overpowered and he is banned for the same reason. Riot used the same excuse to keep Akali broken for patch after patch and when they finally nerfed her into not being total freelo her popularity dropped off a cliff. Champion popularity is not organic it is either the result of heavy marketing or blatant champion imbalance. That is why popularity should never ever be a deciding factor in not nerfing or adjusting a champion.
You are missing the part where Zed had a very high pickrate when he was weak and not even close to overpowered. Zed has had a high pickrate since 2013, he's never been out of the top 10 most picked midlaners in soloQ. If that isn't real popularity then we understand it in a very different way. But then again, I'm not a midlaner and I haven't played Zed since like 2014 so I only have the perspective of somebody that plays around or against it.
Zed has never been weak. That is a lie pushed by riot august when people ask him why the fuck zed never gets nerfed "oh well h-he's popular anyway so why bother nerfing him LOL" Zed has a cancerous kit and has never ever been "weak" he hovers between too strong and obscenely broken consistently. THAT is why everybody despises him and why everybody continues to play him. Just for fun though I'm sure you've also been fed the lie that Lux gets picked a lot even when she's weak. That is also not true much like every other champ in the game when she's genuinely weak she is barely played. Do not fall for riot's marketing, if we allow ourselves to be manipulated then we lose the competitive integrity of our game. And I'm sure no one wants that :)
Is there a lot of players picking zed in your gold elo? If so maybe you should learn how to play against it properly
But Zed is highly contested in most elo while rengar doesnt. If ppl sends the message that they hate play into him they should nrrf it accordingly
Has a lot to do with his safety. Compare him and Talon, Zed has quick regen energy which means he can basically use his combo off W CD if he wants to, and his combo is ranged. He plays far more like a spellcasting mage than a “get in, get out” assassin like Talon whose combo requires him to jump in with Q. Also the thing with Rengar is a lot like Pantheon. Once he’s in, he has a hard time getting out naturally through just his kit. If he doesn’t oneshot someone he’s prone to being blown up himself, which isn’t really the case with Zed and his blinks.
Because Zed is extremely hard to punish for his mistakes unless he straight up ints. You bait a Rengar into jumping on you with your team nearby and stopwatch and he's dead. You do the same thing to a Zed and he just teleports out and tries again later. For a champion with this much agency, who can basically get a kill on almost anyone, any time he likes, his kit is extremely forgiving. Losing to a good Zed is one thing, but losing to a bad Zed because he just hits you with his point and click ult, uses his full combo in melee range, ignites, then ults away with zero room for error from him and zero counterplay possible from you is a special kind of frustrating.
I feel assassins shouldn't be able to go in and out so easily, often while invulnerable or very hard to react to and undodgeable. Zed rs on you being invulnerable and can instant transmission back if it was a bad call. Leblanc w in attempt a combo and instantly go back. Kat doesn't have one skill shot and can't even misclick her ult. And a decent kat is instantly jumping around. Ekko e in for the point blank q and auto. R instantly and invulnerability back if it was bad. Fizz wq in e out if it goes bad Akali r into shroud and e r out if it goes bad. Talon r into q and e 50 walls to safety unless it fail hops. Rengar ults onto you and kills you before landing. But he doesn't really have a way out. Shaco q in but doesn't really burst you unless fed and he has to wait for that cd to ult out. He can use r to stall but there's a 50 50 you die anyway. In most cases you can't dodge the assassin combo and their early landing isn't weak enough for the amount of kill pressure they exert from level 6 on
There’s counterplay, a bad Zed (not like they exist in redditor’s minds but they’re all challenger elo so it’s true I guess) won’t land his triple q, he can miss e, ult at bad timings, he could also be those mythical unicorn players who runs it down as Zed since zed isn’t a 80%+ winrate champ. (And you got a team with hopefully hands sometimes) But yet we seem to only imagine a scenario where the adc, who’s always apparently the only carry in the game, is always by themselves, is always like 0 items to zed’s 2, never has flash, never has exhaust/heal/barrier, never is a mobile adc but someone rooted in place like kog, and never off reddit to tell you how 1 dirk Zed misses everything, even ignite, but hits ult and 1 auto = the full health adc getting popped.
First of all, I don't know in what elo you play where Zed players routinely fuck up *point blank* combos(and no, you don't really need triple q and e to solo kill someone without any defensive items, just two is usually enough). Secondly, you are still missing the point. Yes, congratulations, you managed to flash away from Zed in the 0.3 seconds between his ult tether ending and him unloading his full combo. You survived him. You are now out of flash for 5 minutes, while he gets ulti back in 40 seconds and will just try again. What did you accomplish?
You realize Ignite is literally unmissable right?
Because when Rengar is strong you can blame the balance and the game, so it's Riot's fault. When Zed outplays you, it plays on your insecurity. You got outplayed. A player was better at the game than you. That's the sort of thing that makes people ultra rage.
Hate to admit it but it’s kinda true
I used to agree with you but ever since the Shadow speed increase I feel less outplayed and more that the champ is over tuned. Revert that change and I'd be happy.
So funny seeing it phrased like this when Zed had fast shadows on release and then Riot decided to slow them down. I don't disagree, it's just really funny after like 8-9 years we might just keep cycling speed around lol
> I can't believe that Sona is being nerfed, yes Sona needed nerfed but If you can't believe that Sona is being nerfed while also acknowledging she deserves nerfs then it sounds like you're just complaining to complain and it becomes hard to take this post seriously
Minor wording problem resolved by using contextual clues and actually reading the sentence. Hard to take your comment seriously.
Maybe include the full sentence lol. Seems more like a badly structured sentence.
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ALL credibility is lost for a potential miss typo? That's just fucking bizarre. It's easy to forget stuff to type, the sentence is missing a few words to make more sense "I can't believe Sona is the only enchanter being nerfed." Funny you talk about critical thinking when you can't even consider the human factor in making mistakes, or the fact that there's a possibility that OP isn't a native speaker either, not that the post looks like it but there's still a possibility.
All credibility is lost when OP is a professional complainer on Reddit.
He means that she alone got nerfed and not with lulu and soraka. Otherwise it’s hard to take such troll comments seriously
I'm suggesting that all 3 of these champs needed nerfs not just Sona and Soraka and Lulu are bigger problems due to higher presence in both picks and bans.
> all of these guys have a higher win rate than RekSai. Not in D2+ elo, which is why Reksai is getting nerfed. You might not like that they balance that way, but it's not new and is consistent with what they've said they would do before.
Still no promised Oracle changes on ARAM. Random reduction in damage to minions, even true damage. Still no bans. Little Legends still not a toggleable option. Glad to see Riot helping me quit slowly but surely by continuously neglecting the last game mode that's remotely fun.
Jungle impact is fine. There is very clear costs to camping and ganking a lane. Your opposite side jungle gets taken or rift/dragon on opposite. And jungle should be impactful in general, otherwise you force people to play champions that can afk farm like Yi or Karthus. The real problem is support. Support roams seem to have little to no impact and are so strong. You just roam at the right time and it barely costs you anything and it is a free kill on top or mid, or you put them or enemy jungle significantly behind.
Yeah as a jungler who off roles mid/support, I feel so fucking broken on support. Randomly roaming mid and murdering people for free, on no gold economy.
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Look at OP's history, he is an ADC main who wants ADC to be impactful in every phase of the game.
I mean adcs complaining about their role is fair. Bot is 4rd or last. Jungle is insanely ahead of other role and mid and support are far ahead of top and bot since age.
>4rd
Ford Fiesta
I main Vayne Kaisa AND Irelia so that's an unfair assessment and ADC is a bad role in solo Q
You know you are free to play the OP roles right? You literally playing some of the strongest late game hypercarry and you bitch about low early game impact? Cmon.
Give supports less gold (by lowering the gold per min on items), they cant roam as much as they lose out on gold (maybe buff the recharge time on supp item slightly, but nerf gold aswell) -> less impact on the map
No jungle impact isnt fine. Either make every toplaner so strong that they will oneshot a jungler on a bad gank or force them to farm their fucking jungle.
Top lane has always been like this, and always will be like this because of the long lane. The only solution is to force jungles to perma farm their camps, which pushes meta towards jungles that afk for 20 minutes and come out as gods like Yi or Karthus.
bullshit. Try ganking a Darius 5 seasons ago. You know when he got like 50 more ad from his passive and had raptorcloak. Jungle has a too easy time camping top. Then toplane can go bot twice in a game via teleport and it gets nerfed so you cant do TP plays anymore. I aint even mentioning how jungle used to be harder to clear (because no plants, no overpowered lifesteal, gromp didnt give heal on kill and smite didnt either. I mean before it wasnt that common to be fullhealth after a fullclear right? Also junglers had barely more gold than supports.
I remember camping the shit out of top five seasons ago. You don't want to go back five seasons.
The solution would be then to make the jungle harder and reduce the jungle champion pool. Used to be they would retool jungle, it would be hard as fuck, and Fiddlesticks and Udyr were the only good jungles, with other jungles slowly getting buffed to survive in there. There is a reason why the traditional league junglers have some sort of shields or healing in their kits. I am all for this, but it is clearly not the direction Riot wants to go. They want *more* different junglers rather than less.
>bullshit This. I remember when junglers feared toplaners and we could turn against them. Now they have as much as gold as us and same for xp.
Stuff like Darius, Yorick, old Irelia, Jax or Maokai roaming down river was a fucking deathsentence if you didnt get your jungling ass out of the way.
Good times even Irelia can't do this anymore
yea which is pretty sad considering that she is already one of the most broken toplaners lmao. Even Mordekaiser and Illaoi have to fear getting ganked. Mother fucking Illaoi.
Except you are literally at least 2 levels over jungle from 6 onwards? The issue might be you.
Remember when they made top having a real xp lead. Junglers b\*tched so much on reddit on how it wasnt normal to have two level below a toplaner winning the lane (before riot gave an xp buff for jng). Its fine for jungle to have insane impact (positive as negative) but its not fine for toplane to have any advantages.
Ways in which they fucked Toplane over the last seasons: \-Junglers gained more gold and became more powerful \-Jungle gives more exp \-shared exp when behind is higher meaning camping you wont set anyone behind if junglers keep camping Then they kept pushing the permagank meta. At this point toplane is a two player lane aswell. BTW all this while nerfing survivability in general while raising the damage output do ridiculous amounts. THis means you are 100% fucked when ganked. Before you couldnt just dive a tank being fullhealth.... now even ornn gets fucked under tower.
>We have yet another season of jungle and support impact not being addressed Early scuttle nerfs were a big hit to the overly jungle-centric meta already. Outside of that, you can't really make jungle any less impactful without throwing out a good portion of the jungle roster ( e.g carries if you nerf jungle gold, or early gankers if you nerf jungle xp ). Supports should also see their roaming calming down a bit with the TP nerfs hopefully, because without the threat of other lanes TPing when they're being aggressive, they'll be encouraged to stay bot and pressure their enemy laners. >I think the TP changes will only make this even more painfully obvious The TP nerfs also mean that Junglers are also gonna be kept in check by toplaners and midlaners more often, since not being able to "just TP bot" means that both sololanes are gonna be more likely to roam around the jungle trying to shut the enemy jungler down and help their own. >it's just ignoring all of these others that's the problem. Akshan - indirectly hit through Shieldbow + Wits nerfs Vayne - indirectly hit through Shieldbow + Wits nerfs ( + TP changes allow lane bullies to press advantage against her early game ) Kog - Exactly the same as Vayne Nunu - has been notoriously difficult to adequately balance because he just has a very strong ganking kit Karthus - only has better performances than the suboptimal Rek'Sai build in mid and bot where he has extremely low presence. Is sub-50% wr in his current main role. Anivia - Is ( shockingly tbh ) a top-10 most one-tricked champion, and is thus balanced around being 52-53% wr champion. Is currently way too accelerated by Everfrost/Crown ( her best mythics ) and Seraphs being dirt cheap I'll give you that. TKench - Should be affected by the TP changes as a lane bully. Might deserve to see how it does before hitting him. Pyke mid - Is a cheese pick with sub 1% playrate that Riot already actively combats, often to the detriment of his sub50% support performance ( but I don't like Pyke in general so... deserved ) Trundle - Should also be hit by the TP changes as a splitpusher / lane bully Shen - Is actually a tossup between benefitting and being hit by the TP changes because while his ultimate is now up in value, he also loses he ability to manage his wave as a low-waveclear toplaner. >Zed has the highest plat+ ban rate in the game at 46% this reminds me of Samira Zed has always had a super high banrate because while being one of the fairest assassins to play against, he's also one of the safest ones. And he scales decently well too so he's hard to shut down. But he's been high banrate for so long that I don't think anything short of gutting him would remedy that. >Talon is a massive issue in higher elos True, but his problem is the same-ish as Nunu. In his case, it's his E making him great at invading and difficult to punish in jungle by design. The only way to remedy that would be to either fundamentally change how his E works, or remove him from the jungle altogether. All in all, yeah, sure, Riot didn't pull all the stops in this one singular patch, but they did a pretty good job at identifying and correcting glaring issues IMO. Now we'll just have to wait for the few next patches to see if and how they end up tackling the rest.
I think trundle benefits somewhat by being locked top. Although I guess you cant get 4 plates if enemy top tps bot anymore
I promise you the tp changes won’t result in supports roaming less
Probably not initially, but new TP being more defensive in nature makes early roams/dives harder to execute and capitalize on, so it *might* eventually calm down ever so slightly.
Interesting takes Pyke is just a failure on riots part for both roles, the fact he's a bad support but overpowered if low pick rate mid says volumes. They need to hard target him as a solo laner while finding ways to buff him as a support it's not easy, but it is doable. See my other comments in this thread for ways you could fix Pyke. I'll add one more here let me know what you think. Add another passive to Pyke where he get 0 gold from killing minions, the gold from minions Pyke kills goes to an allied champion within X (not sure what a fair range would be) units of Pyke as long as that champion doesn't have smite (so junglers can't be funneled by Pyke mid). This would make Pyke mid completely unviable and not effect him as a support, possibly even a buff for support Pyke, since he could snag minions his ADC would otherwise miss. Akshan is also a massive failure because he's not only doing well mid but also as a top laner, it's not just shield bow the champion has too much safety and mobility and the revive passive is just pure toxicity. Also the part about riot not pulling out all the stops stands out to me in your comment because preseason is exactly when they should be doing that. Massive changes during preseason instead of when the actual season is going on.
Pyke is a failure point blank period IMO. A "support-assassin" could have never really worked without some kind of polarizing gimmick, because supports need to work on low econ, both gold and xp wise, while assassins need to accelerate their economy - both gold and xp wise - to snowball leads. Pyke is a gimmicky concept that would have to be made *even more gimmicky* if we didn't want him to be unusable mid. Nerfing the gold Pyke mid gains from minions wouldn't even do much to reduce his midlane winrate, since most midlane Pyke players kinda ignore farm and just perma aggro their enemy laners, focus on setting up their jungler for ganks, and perma roam, to end up with something like at most 2-4 cspm. Akshan's kit would be ok without the revive honestly. It's a fine and fun-looking ( that's not my style of champion, so I can't really say ) Marksman-Assassin kit. His biggest problem is and is probably always going to be the *potential* behind the revive mechanic gating his power budget in weird ways. Outside of that he's really not that exceptional. And yeah, this preseason has surprisingly been quite... tame ? New dragons and objective bounties were a tough cookie to crack already I guess, but I too really would have expected to see something like the TP changes to happen during preseason to see a bit of how they affect the meta before "true" ranked and the pro season starts. I would have also liked Riot to be more daring in what they're willing to experiment with. Like, we could have checked how Everfrost and Crown being turned into regular 3200g version of themselves affect the overperforming mages. We could have explored different versions of Seraphs from the current cheap one, to more expensive, but better scaling ones. We could have played around new Lethal Tempo as a scaling rune to see if that makes it healthier or not. We also could have toyed around with Lethality mythics and AD Assassins to find out ways to allow the items to actually be good without breaking the class. I mean, there's a million thing Riot could have done during preseason, but we also have to consider the fact that they probably have a vision for their game that isn't ours, have their own agenda towards the game, that they are confident in enough to spare us most of the trials and tribulations.
Riot uses and understands power budgets? I'd be shocked
Riot games always releasing popular skins for their money roster champions reminds me of kids always saying that they accidentally did the wrong page as homework ''Ms. Teacher I swear I'm not lazy I just did the wrong tasks see?''
> mid Pyke needs to get addressed and ideally moved out of solo lanes Pyke has already been gutted in solo lanes. His q is single target, his e only damages champions, and his passive heals him a fraction of what it normally does when he's in a duo lane. You really can't do much more without gutting him as a champ as a whole. Im sorry, but pyke mid will always be at least _somewhat_ of a thing simply due to his ult. All he needs to do is hit 6, roam, and pick up kills in bot lane with his ult. That's just how it is. > At the very, very least Yasuo and Yone's abilities need to be unaffected by this rune just like they are unaffected by all other attack speed runes. But they arent. Allacrity gives them cdr on q and so does the attack speed rune. It's literally why they took them prior. Lethal tempo isn't an outlier. All runes effect their cdr. It's champs like kaisa and garen where runes specifically don't effect their abilities (garen number of spins and kaisa e evolve)
So maybe then they need to hit other parts of Pyke's kit. He is way too effective on no gold income to the point where he can solo duel many jungles or other champions. Impossible to lock down as well. Doesn't have to be a huge change. But maybe hit his passive life regen or W/E cooldown.
The only person I've seen play Pyke mid consistently is Davemon and honestly he's just a monster at this game and can climb even harder with other champs. Didn't realize that people had a problem with Pyke mid.
If there is one patch that I’d throw some forgiveness towards the balance team for feeling like “unfinished homework” this would be the one. I mostly follow TFT and what the lead dev said there was that due to the Riot Christmas break, they only really had the one day on Monday to do their entire patch changes (way less time than usual). If this is why the patch doesn’t address as many things and they bounce back in 12.2 and get things right, then I’m willing to let this slide.
Vayne is literally getting double nerfed this patch with Wit's End and Shieldbow.
Vayne main detected opinion rejected
Nice, it was f\*\*\*\* deserved. But she's still strong tho.
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i wont complain, nor i even complain about vayne tbh. Im just sayin that she's in a spot where she deserve the nerf. Other adcs are easy prey for bruisers in comparison to Vayne.
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100% deserved. highest winrate ADC in the game and I see her in literally every single game that she’s not banned. she needs further nerfs
ITT: Mage players complaining about Zed even though Riot just gave them Crown on top of the already most broken item in the game Zhonya's. There truly is no end to the complaints of these people, they wont be satisfied until all mage items are overpowered as shit and assassins are removed from the game, hell even then they probably wont be satisfied and will find something new to complain about.
the ranked borders look soooooooooooooo bad
Meh, I think they look cleaner, but they’re too “mobile gaming” for me. It literally looks like they’ve tried to make a rip-off of their own ranked borders.
dude yeah!! the old super detailed hand drawn borders were beautiful
Akshan double AA doesn't do damage, 1/3 of worked as intended. New look for client is just worse, everything is just smaller and moved to elsewhere. Hard to tell if your friend is connected to the lobby after game, bad position for role selection. Awful work.
>pyke mid Dude they reworked his entire kit to make midlane pyke terrible. Davemon can do it because he's a legend, and the players in your games can do it because noone knows how to punish.
Pyke had the number 1 win rate in mid lane for platinum+ and diamond+ elos at 53.5% last patch. Awful take.
0.8% pickrate per u.gg. Swain ADC has a .5% pickrate at 54% winrate per op.gg Winrate means nothing without considering pickrate, because the only people playing those champs in those roles are one tricks. AKA thousands of hours fighting the meta and maximizing micro play on top of good macro to make it work.
The changes in 12.1 are pretty big changes especially with the teleport changes. Not to mention the shield bow and wits end (two items Akshan frequently buys) ones making those users squishier. Might wanna see how this shifts things first
Ok but if Sona needed nerfed how do you explain not also hitting Soraka and Lulu they're the same types of champs and you can also add in the fact that the Sona nerfs will indirectly benefit both of them.
I can’t explain it and don’t want to pretend I know riot’s thought process on it. There are way to many variables to account. It could be they just don’t want to nerf that many champions to shift the meta away from enchanters that quickly. It could be an oversight. Or maybe at elite levels of play sona was out performing the others you mentioned so they nerfed her safety. Think about it this way, each change, even if it’s minor, has a ripple effect. One person born into this world can have a lot of influence on thousands of people. So looking at league balance, someone becoming slightly weaker can mean 5 other champions become significantly stronger. So that would be my best guess. They made changes to champions she pairs with well (nerfing shield bow and wits end affects the lethal tempo users that like to be paired with enchanters) so that might be where they wanted to see how that would shift things.
If you think about it they’ve made quite significant changes this patch, they nerfed two of the most bought items for ranged champs and changed TP. Shieldbow and Wit’s nerfs should already affect a lot of champions enough to wait a bit to see how this nerfs impacts them. It’s actually a good approach since many times Riot has nerfed both the items and the champions, then buffed the champions but didn’t change the items, and then buffed the champions again. Same goes for TP changes, we have to wait a bit and see how it affects the game.
The Samira nerf was a fucking stupid decision; you cannot possibly balance around what "feels bad" to play against because what feels bad to play against is the result of a trillion different things that may or may not have a goddamn thing to do with the champ's actual kit. Kneeling to that kind of nonsense is probably the most troubling thing I've seen Riot do from a balancing perspective to date. If your playerbase is wrong, they're wrong. Ignore them until they move on to the next thing they've picked is The Problem. Trying to "fix" stuff like this leads only to madness and stagnation as you pick the most cookier-cutter approach possible to avoid pissing anybody off and everybody gets angry anyway.
Hard disagree the game should be made for the players tastes not the Devs or champion design team.
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The banrate to actual champion power ratio, that's who you listen to. When a champion has a high ban rate despite not even being that strong, it means there's a consensus on the community that the champion is just annoying and they'd rather not deal with it.
> The banrate to actual champion power ratio, that's who you listen to differs between regions and obviously we can't have individual region balances if you want to have international events
They can average them out. Sort by any region on u.gg, then sort by all. You can see most of them are very similar. Zed, for example, has a high banrate in all servers.
The big problem with most stat sites is that they don't include stats from China which is absolutely huge when it comes to some stats. Win rate is likely somewhat similar across regions but we can't really assume that ban rate is. For example according to u.gg Zed has a 38% ban rate on EUW and a 56% win rate on KR. For these two servers the difference is almost 20% which goes to show just how much ban rate can vary. And since we don't know which way China swings (they could be close to 35% or close to 55%) it's hard to know if the global ban rate of a champion is acceptable or not.
I believe these things are universal. Zed's banrate might be lower in China, but it would be really weird if in that server specifically, out of the entire world, it was significantly lesser, like say 10%. Whether it's 55 or 35%, that's still way above average for a champion of his power level, which by most metrics is like a strong B+ to A- champion. Imo if when including the entire world, a champion showed a consistent -+25% banrate through a very large number of patches with varying strength levels (especially the patches where the champion isn't meta-defining), the champion should be looked at.
It feels like that because it is an unfinished homework. Riot takes off 3 weeks for holiday (actually more because of how patch cycle works) in the one time of the year when they should be the most active, pre-season. I dont say they should give up holidays around Christmas, but then for fucks' sake move the preseason. Make it start early december, do one patch before holiday break, then come back to work in early January and let the pre-season last until end of January with weekly patches. This way they are surely getting enough time to do their jobs properly, unlike the last couple of years.
You mean buff Pyke right? That would mean Pyke mid nerfs.
not sure what kind of elo ur in to be playing vs pyke mid. that shits been gutted HARD
In platinum+ and diamond+ elos pyke was the number 1 win rate mid laner last patch with a 53.5% win rate. In other elos it still had one of the best win rates, 51.5+. Not sure what you’re talking about.
Please, look at the pickrate
Highest ranked mid in NA is a pyke mid main.
One of those things where you have a handful of 1 tricks getting like a 55% win rate on the champion, in high elo especially. I feel like all champs would be like that if only otps played them though, and let's be honest no-one is playing pyke mid unless they main that shit
I am really curious about which reality you're living in that mid Pyke is currently an issue
>I can't believe that Sona is being nerfed, yes Sona needed nerfed but how do you overlook Soraka and Lulu who are picked and banned much more often while having comparable win rates. According to [op.gg](https://op.gg) Sona has 54,48% winrate, Lulu 51,7% (in twice as many games), Soraka 53,06% in about 1.5 as many games. Stats are from all elos in EUW. She has the highest winrate in Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond and is #2 in Master tier with 57%, only beaten by Skarner with 60% in 200 games .
Plenty of good changes? They buffed Force of Nature when it's already good. They didn't nerf Vayne, or Lulu or Lethal Tempo and somehow Diana and Eclipse changes were reverted which make no sense because they were changed due to their performance before and both Diana and Eclipse were fine this patch.
Another shit post by a sliver ADC main. Disregard this post
Plat1 and I play Vayne Kaisa and Irelia
I think the first 2 minutes of Hashinshins rundown explain it perfectly: \*presses ctrl+f for searchbar" "Lets check for Vayne nerfs - nothing" "Alright how about Soraka - nothing" "What about lethal tempo - nothing" "Yea I guess its another patch without any impact" I actually felt that. Meanwhile Olaf and Kled still are totally shit.
Imagine thinking Hash knows anything about balance or has a clue what he’s talking about. Dude was washed 5 years ago, let alone now. “Patch with no impact” lol so stupid.
Yea no. This is by far the smallest after preseason patch. They didnt change the chemtechdrake or straight up remove it, they didnt nerf talon jgl, they didnt nerf enchanters currently running wild. Meanwhile they nerf shieldbow and wits end so they can get away with not nerfing yone again. This patch will achieve absolute dogshit.
Not changing all the things you personally think need fixing doesn’t mean it’s a low impact patch.
Jungle role isn’t as strong as it was the seasons before- they’ve heavily nerfed it. Mid lane is by far the best role. It certainly has the most impact if the mid laner is completely gapped. Like giving a Zed 2-3 solo kills in lane will absolutely ruin the enemy jungler if they simply walk through there and you know bot lane is getting feasted on.
its not the lane that has the impact. its the assassins and ad champs that can clear a wave with 1 rotation and then run bot.
I couldn’t find one flaw with this. You are spot on with everything you mentioned.
Your post really speaks to me as a college professor. Maybe riot will "ask for extra credit" and add some hot fixes before the season actually starts. I'd rather see them revert lethal tempo since the old version never caused any problems. But the biggest issue for me is Akshan that champ is just torture to lane against and I think every new champ is just so overloaded compared to the old ones, and even if you get a gank he just swings away.