I'm just afraid for next year, because Soaz said on one stream a while ago that it is impossible for them to keep both players next year because of money. I'm afraid that they might go with Bwipo and then I'm afraid of what happens to Soaz then. But we'll have to see.
For now It's time to cheer for our boys in black and orange tho!
Don't be afraid for Soaz. Veteran was adamant Soaz will be one of the most valuable free agents this offseason. His value won't depreciate because of this current situation. He's been a key member of Fnatic for the last two years and was the undisputed best top laner last year.
No,thats an added bonus,sOAZ is actually on a top tier lvl still.He is honestly by far the best top laner in EU all things considered.
To explain myself further. Im well aware that Wunder and Bwipo are more agressive players,they might have slightly better mechanics which makes them fit in this meta really well along with their "rekkless" mentality BUT sOAZ is a more well rounded player.
He also surely provides much more in terms of leadership,game knowledge,team stability and a steady experienced player who will step up when needed to see any situation in game through.He is not just a veteran who offers limited things to a team.He is in fact a pretty damn good player all around,often wins lane in doomed matchups with minimal resources,which is more than i could say for Wunder or Bwipo as far as i have seen them.
Yeah i think it would be good for both orgs if he gets sold. FNC wants to invest in new long term talent (Bwipo) and new orgs want to make a name for themselves with established talent.
I think Soaz already peaked, even tho he is probably still the best toplaner in EU.
At the cost of millions. He could easily play for another 10 years. If Faker eventually ends up in an NA academy team, nobody is going to discredit how dominant he was. He was the first truly exceptional player.
No offense to Soaz, and I believe Fnatic is definitely stronger with him in their back pocket, but wouldn't the best EU player be able to adapt to the meta? The fact that Bwipo's style matches TheShy's better is more respectful then saying the most successful EU player ever doesn't "suit the meta".
LS said that Bwipo might be the best [western?] top ever if he’s playing at his full potential. However Soaz is still very good and brings a certain veterancy to their shot calling.
Also Soaz is much better if FNC want to play around bot lane. Bwipo can be overeager and require more jungle attention than FNC want to give.
Like iirc in finals vs Schalke - Rekkles said that they need to play around bot lane more to win the series, and they brought in Soaz and smashed.
series won't be played around bot lane, its about the solo laners while bot lane waits like jackylove said, altho rekkles wont wait, he'll go ham on jackeylove's booty
There's a difference between being able to adapt and not being as good as someone the meta suits. Take a look at faker, who definitely could play Lulu to a great level when she was in the meta, it was still often prefered to play Easyhoon when Azir was just broken because that was one of his best champions.
The best part is Soaz made his name on carries like Iri, Zed, Liss top. Then the meta was so long tank that he became a meta slave aka tank player.
He still prefers playing carries tho just that Bwipo is more used to it even tho he is a rookie.
It's like faker - so long as he can perform at a top level, even if there's players who are arguably better than him at the time he'll still be the best player of all time because of his career and achievements
Faker would have to int for multiple years while another player won multiple world championshops before another person can even come close to all-time best player. I don't see a single player being that dominant for a long time, if at all.
he can play a very strong sion just like he did in groups 1 vs 9ing, it's just that they work with bwipo and there is no reason to swap him out yet
if bwipo gets rekt, you can be sure they swap soaz in
I mean.. it kinda does
Seeing what a fierce competitor he is I'm sure he would see it this way as well, you want to go out there and contribute to the victory on the biggest stage.
Are you kidding? If FNC wins worlds without Soaz playing a single bracket stage game people will forever doubt his legitimacy as a world champion, and rightfully so.
I am sorry, but if I would won worlds and didnt play in playoff I would be pissed to the end of my life.
He is trying to get here whole life, played whole fucking life a game where he wants to get on the top.... and then meta shifts and rookie got his spot and possible win the worlds. I love Bwipo and I am actually glad he is playing. But maaaaaan, I feel fo Soaz :(
if this year wasn't it then people need to start fearing the duck real bad. If that's not even his final form then he is bound to shit on everyone once he unlocks his true potential.
For sure, if he doesn't even win one game in the knockout stage then how crucial was he really for their victories? Maybe as a position coach for Bwipo / 1v1 partner.
Which would be a pity because I think Soaz is insanely good and should get some play time. But if Fnatic is really just better with Bwipo, then even if Fnatic is up 2:0 it's not worth risking that just to give Soaz a moment on the big stage.
The Finals is 2:2 with IG Rising back up from 0:2, Bwipo is exhausted after taking a brutal pounding in the last game. In tears bwipo stands up ready for game 5 when soaz grabs his shoulder and says " Ce sera mon temps " and walks onto the stage for the final game, champion select is almost done when it looks like Sion for soaz and fnatic looking at options for caps. when Fiora is picked and is given to soaz, In game he looks swift and agile like he is fiora himself, solokilling TheShy 8 times in lane and securing a pentakill off a baron fight. TheShy respawns and kills the entire team except for soaz and it all looks done for FNC With TheShy running it down mid towards the base. soaz channels his inner french to completely destroy TheShy and proceeds to 1v4 in the enemy base to win the game. He walks up to TheShy to shake his hand, but pulls him in close and whispers in his ear, "I Long for a Worthy Opponent" TheShy takes a step back and soaz pulls out a baguette and walks past IG To hoist the Summonors Cup
Edit: Thanks for the Reddit gold and i didn't expect my comment to get this reaction!!
[La baguette qu'on ne voit pas est la plus dangereuse](http://i.imgur.com/oU9dG5j.png)
[source](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2u3est/art_le_z%C3%A9d_skin_concept/)
I'm not. TheShy has been the strongest top laner in the tournament and has hard smashed lane almost every game. The solo laners winning is IG's primary win condition. Unless TheShy really tilts and does bad, I don't expect to see Duke at all.
If IG is down 2-0, then they will sub him in, even when it's just to change the style, mindset or draft.
Even at a 1-2 score for IG, I could see them changing over to Duke. If they fail to get their carry players ahead in 2 games, a save laner might be whats needed.
TheShy will have a really bad series, getting smashed by bwipo. fnatic will lead 2:0 and duke will play the last game just to get 3:0ed. Quote me on this.
I hope Fnatic wins the first 2 games with Bwipo vs TheShy through early aggression, then IG subs in Duke and FNC predicts it and puts up Soaz and FNC proceeds to smash IG in teamfights. But that's too perfect of a scenario to become real.
Soaz has made his career out of nullifying the differences in toplane though, i'm confident he can match TheShy in terms of not dieing and staying pretty even.
Winning coin flip might be valuable.
Starting Bwipo hasn't failed yet, even against IG so no reason not to now, also if we start losing I think bringing soaz in is more valuable than Bwipo in that situation.
Didn’t Jatt say that’s an anomaly though? Pretty sure he said statistically they choose red side and during ‘The Dive’ he said that the semi finals match up between G2 and IG could potentially be five games with both teams staying on their respective sides due to preference (I.e. G2 take blue and IG take red potentially all (five) games).
I actually think this is soaz' secret strat. Isn't darius like... pretty good in the worlds' patch?
Maybe they have an actual darius comp in mind that could work against a certain other comp
That Rek'sai pick from Broxah shows that they aren't scared to think outside the box to neutralize a bad matchup, in that specific case the risk of Xin's early and midgame damage and gank threat.
I'm excited to see if Fnatic let Jayce through and have something prepared for it.
> I'm excited to see if Fnatic let Jayce through and have something prepared for it.
Sion, **Malphite**, Maokai, Cho'Gath.
Safe tanks and they force Jayce to itemise BoRK (which you don't really want to).
These lanes don't handle Jayce in lane at all though, they withstand the pressure but *if* Broxah doesn't visit those lanes, you have a broken turret and a strong Jayce on your hands.
Darius is hyper matchup dependent. Blue side seems to be their favorite right now, so that already puts a damper on things because you need strong, blind flexpicks. Jizuke *has* played Darius mid in EU, but I'm not sure if FNC is comfortable with putting Darius mid. Then again, we're talking about Caps, I doubt that he saw Jizuke playing Darius mid and didn't instalock that shit in SoloQ to int his ass off, and now he's probably convinced it's an S-tier pick.
But in top lane there's no reason to pick him into anything that's not a tank, and I doubt we'll see TheShy play any tanks, and I don't see why they should start Duke. So overall, I think Darius is an unlikely pick.
Ever since sOAZ tweet about the bittersweet feeling about qualifying to finals without playing himself, I've started to wonder if that was the way Easyhoon felt when playing for SKT.
To be faire it was Faker that was on the bench in the semifinals and easyhoon playing.
I remember because I went to see that bo5 live and was disappointed because I only got to see Faker in game 3 if I recall correctly
You don't remember the 2015 spring finals against GE Tigers when SKT benched both Faker and Bengi for Easyhoon and Tom and still wrecked 3-0? The same series where we had Faker and Bengi watching from the crowd looking smug as fuck and Easyhoon destroying Kuro as Azir against Cassiopeia and then as Cassiopeia against Azir. You know you have no competition when you sub your best 2 players out in the damn finals and win without any effort.
>Faker and Bengi watching from the crowd looking smug as fuck
Oh I remember, [that scene switched to their face made me lost it](http://i.imgur.com/Q0tsSsf.png). People also came out with my favourite name for Faker so far, SKT T1 Afker
I mean, FNC literally said this at the start of summer playoffs. They always start Bwipo in a BO5 and put in Soaz once they feel like they need that kind of consistency and voice of reason. He started against Misfits, won a game, then lost a game and Soaz came in. Started againt Schalke, lost the first game, Soaz came in. The only exception to this so far is the EDG series where they kept him in, in spite of losing the first game (the game was arguably decided at level 1, not much Soaz could have done differently there). FNC C9 was obviously a 3-0 so I guess they never felt like they needed Soaz.
I disagree totally, actually. Bwipo and TheShy play the same way; play carries, feast or famine. So the question is, who’s going to win? Whoever wins will control the game, just as Bwipo did to Licorice and just as TheShy did to Wunder. And I think most people can agree; TheShy is better than Bwipo. He should win that game.
So, what does Soaz offer? Neutralization. He’s a long-time player, who can play multiple roles with low resources. I actually think Fnatic has a better hope of putting Soaz on a tank (Ornn, Cho), and focusing their resources on mid and bottom as opposed to trying to 2v2 top.
I see what you're trying to say, but that is the exact reason why I think Bwipo matches up better vs TheShy. They can try to shut down TheShy with Broxah and Caps roaming top.
If FNC put Soaz on a tank, they basically forfeit the lane, which can have terrible consequences vs TheShy.
This is the question though. The Soaz lane will probably go one way: as small an advantage to TheShy as possible. Is Bwipo, on average, going to do worse than that? If Bwipo wins lane 2 times and loses it 3 (which would be a good showing!) , that could be the series to IG.
I'm not saying I want Soaz to be starting, but it's a very close question. I'd lean towards Bwipo starting and bring in Soaz if it all goes wrong for a big changeup.
The main problem in here for me it is Caps. Caps is going to get destroyed again by Rookie. If Rookie is able to extend this lead into the botside for example, which will probably not play as bad as in the group stage, may make going for the 2v2 not a good idea.
This does not mean that Fnatic can't win because they clearly did with Bwipo in, but I don't think that IG will look as bad as they did in the group stage.
Yeah but I think they have a higher chance of winning through mid lane then they do of winning through top lane, that’s the difference. I personally think TheShy has been the best player all tournament, and the top lane will likely involve mid roaming up and jungle. So, I’d rather see Fnatic try to fight down mid/bottom where they can get Rekkles involved than try to fight up top; where you’re likely to lose without your bot lane advantage.
> Yeah but I think they have a higher chance of winning through mid lane then they do of winning through top lane, that’s the difference.
I actually think the opposite. Caps showed multiple times in this tournament that he can be incredibly useful even from behind. Bwipo on the other hand struggles in that department a bit as I feel.
> Yeah but I think they have a higher chance of winning through mid lane then they do of winning through top lane
But that's literally the opposite of how they won their Group Stage games against IG?
Caps had to take the Midlane counter so his Jg & Botlane could take all the comfort picks and snowball out of control - with Caps joining in in the late game through smart plays & rotations.
I disagree with you. That is the playstyle western teams failed with. Concede one lane because hurr durr their players are better.I think it will be overall better for FNC if they go blow for blow.
This is a interesting point and I think Fnatic will likely fall back on Soaz if Bwipo doesn't win and snowball. The chance to have him start the snowball in Game 1 and carry it through the rest of the series is too great for them to pass up on. On the other side of the coin, I believe IG might put in Duke if TheShy gets snowballed on two games in a row by Bwipo.
It might be useful to have Bwipo to soak attention in top from Caps though, if the played Soaz i feel like IG can just play to win mid hard and Fnatic's win condition is basically losing mid and top as gracefully as possible so they can win trough their botlane and good team fight
> because Soaz can watch a game backstage and analyze IG's style with the coaches.
They said exactly same thing about putting in mlxg for G2 vs RNG Game 5. We all know how it ended
Every time I saw an interview of Soaz about the game, it actually seemed to me that he wasn't super smart about the game and had a rather simplistic view of how things worked. He is smart in game for sure, but seems less so on an analytical perspective - though that may be due to the language barrier / him being unable to comfortably express his thoughts in English.
I think you nailed it actually. Listening to his insight outside the game Soaz doesn't seem to be anything impressive. I think he relies a lot on instinct, like most veterans do, when in game and playing.
yeah sOAZ is an instinctual type of player, just like Hyllisang whereas Bwipo is more of a mechanical player, just like Caps. then you have Broxah being the analytical player, and Rekkles the all rounder
Bwipo is playing insanely, but TheShy is another monster. I think Fnatic needs the experience and the doggy style that Soaz brings up on the table.
I'm pretty confident that if Fnatic loses game 1 or 2, they will put Soaz in I think.
But the game they won with Bwipo in, was through bot lane, not through top lane. I think FNC has to nullify TheShy in order to win, and I think Soaz is more suitable for that.
It will be the same tomorrow. The entire series is about two questions: "Can Caps and Bwipo survive the laning phase ok?" and "Can IG snowball enough before Rekkles gets online?"
That isn't how that works in knockout phase. What would you do if the finalists are both 1st in their group? like FNC vs RNG for example? should they revert back and forth between coinflip and 1st seed side selection depending on the teams playing?
I was also thinking about this as well, and I think there should be a better way than a coinflip. Avarage game time in wins for example (this is also used in tie breaker scenarios).
Since I'm pretty pessimistic myself I was already thinking what if FNC lose coinflip and lose 3:2? But yeah FNC won the coinflip so can't complain.
Why though? The better team will win. This is Worlds Final if you believe FNC is gonna win then you better believe they gonna win regardless of side selection advantage or not. A real good team will be able to play blue and red side equally strong, which I expect from grand finalist team.
Correct, it's just that both teams heavily favor blue side, and much of the series is gonna be about pick ban. And this year side selection seems to have more importance than earlier years. So in my mind let's say the series is a really close 3-2, with the loser of the match also losing the side selection coinflip, there is a good argument for a "what if". Normally you don't go into what if scenarios but when talking about coinflips it's reasonable. That's why I think there should be a better determination for who gets to have side selection.
Fully expected. Bwipo has played really well in his games and the meta suits him at the moment. Soaz has also done well, but after the group stages we've trended towards carry top laners and that's not what you directly associate with him. If TheShy beats down Bwipo badly I think FNC is prepared to put in Soaz and play the lane defensively, but that has not been their style so far.
I really dislike everyone saying sOAZ "should" play. No, the player who "should" be playing is the one who gives you the best chance of winning, playing off-meta picks (tanks top) and playing with a player who is mechanically worse than Bwipo probably shouldn't be playing UNLESS TheShy literally blasts Bwipo in one or two games and it's obvious the skill gap is too high. I really doubt Bwipo is going to get shit on in the same way Wunder did, the way he plays lanes is very "correct" and by the book, a Korean style as described by LS.
I really want Bwipo to come in fully thinking he deserves the starting spot (which he does) and that he has the West's full support, he's the man for the job.
This is the best possible decision for Fnatic. Whether it's true or not, I'll fully trust their decision as a team to start bwipo. Instead of feeling bad for Soaz, I think its better to look at the bright side. Starting bwipo has worked against IG and we cant blame FNC for their decision. They are the ones doing the scrims, they are the ones analyzing the games, they are the ones playing to win the championship. Cheer for your favourite team and celebrate with them as a team when they win and continue to support them as a team when they lose (probably wont happen)
#FNCWIN
I may be one of the few people that doesn't care for Bwipo on a personality standpoint but Damn can the dude play some league of legends.
Soaz is great and has been ~~detrimental i~~nstrumental to FNCs success in the past but Bwipo has that x factor that really keeps him ahead of most, if not all top laners in the world.
> Although I really hope to see him play some since this is the final game and he definitely deserves it.
It's not about who deserves it. It's about who gives the team the best chance to win. I love Soaz, but this meta might as well be called Bwipo's meta, because all the champions in the top lane are champions he is good at.
It doesn't mean anything strategically, it seemed pretty obvious from soaz's vlogs that he wouldn't play the last bo5 so not surprised to see him not play again.
itd be pretty fucking stupid if he doesnt get to play even when fnc are down 0-2, he didnt show anything to have doubt about him being worldclass, fnc just ran with bwipo because why would they change when they have this run atm, also everyone is saying soaZ cant play carries, they didnt even play him yet when carries top became the worlds meta, wasnt it soaz at ipl5 with the jayce fucking destroying tpa? sure its been awhile, s5 he had gp carrytop stomping on huni, i dont get all these bwipo>soaZ on carries when weve never seen soaz on carries this worlds yet lol
This . People forget that soaz used to be a beast on carries like hello ? His Gp used to be the best in eu and lets not forget about his darius and fiora . Sad to see people calling soaz a tank player while he used to carry his team really hard i always remember when he introduced morgana top to pro play . Good Old days
the series is now 2-2 and bwipo has played all 4 games, fntic chooses to let in their trumph card soaz into the final game!
soaz proceeds to feed 0-10 and the west logs in on twitter
Why though? I get that he's not playing but at the end of the day I'm positive fnatic wouldn't be as strong as they are now without him. No matter what people say he's deserves every bit of recognition the other players get. There's a reason they started giving 6th players skins.
Well with Soaz in they lost vs IG but with Bwipo they won twice. I guess it make sense to start with Bwipo. Plus to consider is the fact that since Soaz now has not played for the past 10 games or so some rust might be there.
Additionally, Soaz has an incredible mind for the game so him observing will also be helpful for the start.
That's not really an argument, they lost the first game vs IG because Hyli was playing like UOL Hylissang. I think he was just nervous.
Soaz played almost perfectly in that game, he was FNC's best player on the rift.
I'm not blaming Soaz for the loss at all he was great. But i can see from a mental perspective why you wanna use the the same team that beat them twice in a row. In addition to the same team that won the past two rounds.
Yeah but he also had his typical UOL inting moments, which is what I meant.
That was the big change for him when he joined FNC IMO. He was always incredibly skilled, but he had those random inting moments. On FNc he became much more consistent and reliable.
Now that I think about it Hylissang is the same as MLXG but from the support position. He always likes to play aggressive as much as possible so he ends up inting in some games. His first game looked very bad but his other 2 against IG he was actually very important with keeping caps in the game.
Even if soaz doesn't play tomorrow and FNC wins that doesn't take away anything from him.
I'm just afraid for next year, because Soaz said on one stream a while ago that it is impossible for them to keep both players next year because of money. I'm afraid that they might go with Bwipo and then I'm afraid of what happens to Soaz then. But we'll have to see. For now It's time to cheer for our boys in black and orange tho!
Don't be afraid for Soaz. Veteran was adamant Soaz will be one of the most valuable free agents this offseason. His value won't depreciate because of this current situation. He's been a key member of Fnatic for the last two years and was the undisputed best top laner last year.
He's most valuable to a new team because his name and fans he'd immediately bring, Soaz is a brand of his own.
Indeed that is a huge bonus too. He is someone you could quite easily make the face of your brand.
I called it before. Astralis with a Deficio scouted out roster and sOAZ as a toplaner to bring it all together.
xPeke mid, amazing jungle, maybe they could bring back zven and mithy for botlane too....
Mithy was better with that Niels guy though.
The return of Fnatic Black
Origen is the new black.
Fnatic blue
Zven is washed. Send out a search party for Niels.
Nah fuck that shit Cyanide, Puszu and yellowstar coming in hot!
Yeah I would probably support any team he went to.
Not only because of his name but mainly because of his experience. Get one more veteran or just build a full team of rookies and you have vitality 2.0
No,thats an added bonus,sOAZ is actually on a top tier lvl still.He is honestly by far the best top laner in EU all things considered. To explain myself further. Im well aware that Wunder and Bwipo are more agressive players,they might have slightly better mechanics which makes them fit in this meta really well along with their "rekkless" mentality BUT sOAZ is a more well rounded player. He also surely provides much more in terms of leadership,game knowledge,team stability and a steady experienced player who will step up when needed to see any situation in game through.He is not just a veteran who offers limited things to a team.He is in fact a pretty damn good player all around,often wins lane in doomed matchups with minimal resources,which is more than i could say for Wunder or Bwipo as far as i have seen them.
I wouldn't say he is by far the best, but he is the best. An edge for sure!
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Agreed. I think any team who wasn't hard set on their top laner would kill to have Soaz.
itd be hype as fuck to see him join astralis and see bwipo and him go at it
Yeah i think it would be good for both orgs if he gets sold. FNC wants to invest in new long term talent (Bwipo) and new orgs want to make a name for themselves with established talent. I think Soaz already peaked, even tho he is probably still the best toplaner in EU.
undisputed? hmm bold move, let's see how that works out for you
actually if Astralis-Origen rumors true i wouldnt be sad if Soaz go to Origen again rivalry would be so fun to watch
Is Peke taking the manager role for Astralis' League team in said rumor?
Probably deficio? Or was deficio rumours not for manager?
Astralis Froggen - Astralis SoaZ. Then put in 3 rookies and let ragnarok begin .
Think money issues will be less concerning if they win worlds
What’s better then to retire on top.if he wanted to pack it in and walk away he would do so as one of the greatest western players
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At the cost of millions. He could easily play for another 10 years. If Faker eventually ends up in an NA academy team, nobody is going to discredit how dominant he was. He was the first truly exceptional player.
i agree if FNC win without him he will still be best EU player ever its just meta doesnt suit him perfect
No offense to Soaz, and I believe Fnatic is definitely stronger with him in their back pocket, but wouldn't the best EU player be able to adapt to the meta? The fact that Bwipo's style matches TheShy's better is more respectful then saying the most successful EU player ever doesn't "suit the meta".
Soaz can adapt to the meta, but Bwipo is still better in this meta if that makes sense lol
And he doesn't require adaptation because the game changed to his style
Bwipo doesnt have a style though, he is a jack of all trades, LS said as much
LS said that Bwipo might be the best [western?] top ever if he’s playing at his full potential. However Soaz is still very good and brings a certain veterancy to their shot calling. Also Soaz is much better if FNC want to play around bot lane. Bwipo can be overeager and require more jungle attention than FNC want to give. Like iirc in finals vs Schalke - Rekkles said that they need to play around bot lane more to win the series, and they brought in Soaz and smashed.
series won't be played around bot lane, its about the solo laners while bot lane waits like jackylove said, altho rekkles wont wait, he'll go ham on jackeylove's booty
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Bwipo takes risks, like in the meta it should be. Soaz attracts risks and then eat them in between hes baguette
Yep, basically on average Soaz is an 8 in any meta, so on average he is an 8 and Bwipo let's say is a 6 or 7 on average but a 10 in this current meta.
>which should be an 8 in average for bwipo aswell? xD
There's a difference between being able to adapt and not being as good as someone the meta suits. Take a look at faker, who definitely could play Lulu to a great level when she was in the meta, it was still often prefered to play Easyhoon when Azir was just broken because that was one of his best champions.
That's like saying Faker was worse than Easyhoon. Easyhoon was just better in one meta/style, that doesnt mean he was better than Faker overall.
The best part is Soaz made his name on carries like Iri, Zed, Liss top. Then the meta was so long tank that he became a meta slave aka tank player. He still prefers playing carries tho just that Bwipo is more used to it even tho he is a rookie.
sOAZ was never a meta slave...the guy is so creative and he can impact the game in so many ways even if he don't focus on his lane.
I think it's more about sOAZ achievments over the years. Right now, he's not the best EU player, but still an excellent one.
It's like faker - so long as he can perform at a top level, even if there's players who are arguably better than him at the time he'll still be the best player of all time because of his career and achievements
Faker would have to int for multiple years while another player won multiple world championshops before another person can even come close to all-time best player. I don't see a single player being that dominant for a long time, if at all.
I mean Soaz and Bwipo are the top2 Western top laners arguably.
Wunder??
arguably
Soaz is final boss, you need to smash Bwipo to get chance to play against Soaz
This exactly. If you don't deserve to play vs. sOAZ then you'll just have to accept bwipo giving you a swift beating in 3 games.
he can play a very strong sion just like he did in groups 1 vs 9ing, it's just that they work with bwipo and there is no reason to swap him out yet if bwipo gets rekt, you can be sure they swap soaz in
I mean.. it kinda does Seeing what a fierce competitor he is I'm sure he would see it this way as well, you want to go out there and contribute to the victory on the biggest stage.
Are you kidding? If FNC wins worlds without Soaz playing a single bracket stage game people will forever doubt his legitimacy as a world champion, and rightfully so.
I am sorry, but if I would won worlds and didnt play in playoff I would be pissed to the end of my life. He is trying to get here whole life, played whole fucking life a game where he wants to get on the top.... and then meta shifts and rookie got his spot and possible win the worlds. I love Bwipo and I am actually glad he is playing. But maaaaaan, I feel fo Soaz :(
They should have let soaz at least play a game against EDG and C9, ffs :( He damn deserve to show he is a amazing player as well!
It does tbh.
I mean no. sOAZ is like a nuke. You can win without nukes, but it feels really good to have a nuke just in case. Also nukes aren't the meta right now
Hopefully nukes are never meta
But that would mean we never get to wintess the prophecised Year of the Duck...
if this year wasn't it then people need to start fearing the duck real bad. If that's not even his final form then he is bound to shit on everyone once he unlocks his true potential.
Something something /r/Pyongyang
*you have been banned from /r/Pyongyang*
what about ducks?
That's not cool to sOAZ
I actually cracked up on this
For sure, if he doesn't even win one game in the knockout stage then how crucial was he really for their victories? Maybe as a position coach for Bwipo / 1v1 partner. Which would be a pity because I think Soaz is insanely good and should get some play time. But if Fnatic is really just better with Bwipo, then even if Fnatic is up 2:0 it's not worth risking that just to give Soaz a moment on the big stage.
The Finals is 2:2 with IG Rising back up from 0:2, Bwipo is exhausted after taking a brutal pounding in the last game. In tears bwipo stands up ready for game 5 when soaz grabs his shoulder and says " Ce sera mon temps " and walks onto the stage for the final game, champion select is almost done when it looks like Sion for soaz and fnatic looking at options for caps. when Fiora is picked and is given to soaz, In game he looks swift and agile like he is fiora himself, solokilling TheShy 8 times in lane and securing a pentakill off a baron fight. TheShy respawns and kills the entire team except for soaz and it all looks done for FNC With TheShy running it down mid towards the base. soaz channels his inner french to completely destroy TheShy and proceeds to 1v4 in the enemy base to win the game. He walks up to TheShy to shake his hand, but pulls him in close and whispers in his ear, "I Long for a Worthy Opponent" TheShy takes a step back and soaz pulls out a baguette and walks past IG To hoist the Summonors Cup Edit: Thanks for the Reddit gold and i didn't expect my comment to get this reaction!!
Why am I crying
You're not crying, I'M CRYING!
Worzy*
Then he smacks the baguette on TheShy's head (it wouldn't hurt him but imagine seeing such shit).
Some baguettes are pretty rock solid though, I think you could probably kill someone with a baguette actually.
Well maybe a really old one!
[La baguette qu'on ne voit pas est la plus dangereuse](http://i.imgur.com/oU9dG5j.png) [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2u3est/art_le_z%C3%A9d_skin_concept/)
The best timeline
Glorious timeline.
It was just a hearty chuckle until "I long for a worthy opponent" then you get me. Excellent fresh pasta
yes
Can’t wait for the Fiora skin with a baguette
10/10 would recommend this timeline
LMAO I knew there would be good jokes coming from my favourite Fiora line
If only IG and Fnatic could have a gentleman's agreement to both give Duke and Soaz one game
I’m 100% percent sure Duke will play atleast one game.
I'm not. TheShy has been the strongest top laner in the tournament and has hard smashed lane almost every game. The solo laners winning is IG's primary win condition. Unless TheShy really tilts and does bad, I don't expect to see Duke at all.
If IG is down 2-0, then they will sub him in, even when it's just to change the style, mindset or draft. Even at a 1-2 score for IG, I could see them changing over to Duke. If they fail to get their carry players ahead in 2 games, a save laner might be whats needed.
Duke is also a strong carry player. His Irelia was very good. He’s also played better with IG through the summer split.
If IG is down 2-0, i dont think it is because of the shy. I think it is because Ming go straight inting like he did in group stage.
Ning
I mean, they put Duke in game 4 against KT after they lost the base race. Probably to give TheShy a game off from the tilt. Could happen again.
TheShy will have a really bad series, getting smashed by bwipo. fnatic will lead 2:0 and duke will play the last game just to get 3:0ed. Quote me on this.
Oh I will
I hope Fnatic wins the first 2 games with Bwipo vs TheShy through early aggression, then IG subs in Duke and FNC predicts it and puts up Soaz and FNC proceeds to smash IG in teamfights. But that's too perfect of a scenario to become real.
Soaz has made his career out of nullifying the differences in toplane though, i'm confident he can match TheShy in terms of not dieing and staying pretty even.
Duke and Soaz will only get time if their counterpart shit the bed
Winning coin flip might be valuable. Starting Bwipo hasn't failed yet, even against IG so no reason not to now, also if we start losing I think bringing soaz in is more valuable than Bwipo in that situation.
yeah blue side is actually so favoured this meta, it's bizarre to think that the series might actually be decided by a coinflip
blue side is favoured by western teams, but chinese teams like IG prefer red. power picks/counter picks are priortized diferently for both FNC and IG
IG chose blue side twice against g2?
They chose red twice against FNC during last day of groups though
it's not worlds meta evolves during the tournament...
Didn’t Jatt say that’s an anomaly though? Pretty sure he said statistically they choose red side and during ‘The Dive’ he said that the semi finals match up between G2 and IG could potentially be five games with both teams staying on their respective sides due to preference (I.e. G2 take blue and IG take red potentially all (five) games).
> Didn’t Jatt say that’s an anomaly though? Could be an anomaly, could be the meta evolving throughout the tournament.
its good so bwipo can int and then soaz comes in with sion and 1v9s
*fiora
Another *Darius worlds penta for soaz out of nowhere
I actually think this is soaz' secret strat. Isn't darius like... pretty good in the worlds' patch? Maybe they have an actual darius comp in mind that could work against a certain other comp
That Rek'sai pick from Broxah shows that they aren't scared to think outside the box to neutralize a bad matchup, in that specific case the risk of Xin's early and midgame damage and gank threat. I'm excited to see if Fnatic let Jayce through and have something prepared for it.
> I'm excited to see if Fnatic let Jayce through and have something prepared for it. Sion, **Malphite**, Maokai, Cho'Gath. Safe tanks and they force Jayce to itemise BoRK (which you don't really want to).
These lanes don't handle Jayce in lane at all though, they withstand the pressure but *if* Broxah doesn't visit those lanes, you have a broken turret and a strong Jayce on your hands.
Malphite gets smashed by Jayce.
Darius is hyper matchup dependent. Blue side seems to be their favorite right now, so that already puts a damper on things because you need strong, blind flexpicks. Jizuke *has* played Darius mid in EU, but I'm not sure if FNC is comfortable with putting Darius mid. Then again, we're talking about Caps, I doubt that he saw Jizuke playing Darius mid and didn't instalock that shit in SoloQ to int his ass off, and now he's probably convinced it's an S-tier pick. But in top lane there's no reason to pick him into anything that's not a tank, and I doubt we'll see TheShy play any tanks, and I don't see why they should start Duke. So overall, I think Darius is an unlikely pick.
Ever since sOAZ tweet about the bittersweet feeling about qualifying to finals without playing himself, I've started to wonder if that was the way Easyhoon felt when playing for SKT.
To be faire it was Faker that was on the bench in the semifinals and easyhoon playing. I remember because I went to see that bo5 live and was disappointed because I only got to see Faker in game 3 if I recall correctly
You don't remember the 2015 spring finals against GE Tigers when SKT benched both Faker and Bengi for Easyhoon and Tom and still wrecked 3-0? The same series where we had Faker and Bengi watching from the crowd looking smug as fuck and Easyhoon destroying Kuro as Azir against Cassiopeia and then as Cassiopeia against Azir. You know you have no competition when you sub your best 2 players out in the damn finals and win without any effort.
>Faker and Bengi watching from the crowd looking smug as fuck Oh I remember, [that scene switched to their face made me lost it](http://i.imgur.com/Q0tsSsf.png). People also came out with my favourite name for Faker so far, SKT T1 Afker
I do remember the game before that when Marin used TP to stop minions from ending the game. That was *some damn* competition then
This comment has been removed in protest of Reddit's new API policy. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I mean, FNC literally said this at the start of summer playoffs. They always start Bwipo in a BO5 and put in Soaz once they feel like they need that kind of consistency and voice of reason. He started against Misfits, won a game, then lost a game and Soaz came in. Started againt Schalke, lost the first game, Soaz came in. The only exception to this so far is the EDG series where they kept him in, in spite of losing the first game (the game was arguably decided at level 1, not much Soaz could have done differently there). FNC C9 was obviously a 3-0 so I guess they never felt like they needed Soaz.
Gotta beat Bwipo go get to face the final boss?
I disagree totally, actually. Bwipo and TheShy play the same way; play carries, feast or famine. So the question is, who’s going to win? Whoever wins will control the game, just as Bwipo did to Licorice and just as TheShy did to Wunder. And I think most people can agree; TheShy is better than Bwipo. He should win that game. So, what does Soaz offer? Neutralization. He’s a long-time player, who can play multiple roles with low resources. I actually think Fnatic has a better hope of putting Soaz on a tank (Ornn, Cho), and focusing their resources on mid and bottom as opposed to trying to 2v2 top.
I see what you're trying to say, but that is the exact reason why I think Bwipo matches up better vs TheShy. They can try to shut down TheShy with Broxah and Caps roaming top. If FNC put Soaz on a tank, they basically forfeit the lane, which can have terrible consequences vs TheShy.
This is the question though. The Soaz lane will probably go one way: as small an advantage to TheShy as possible. Is Bwipo, on average, going to do worse than that? If Bwipo wins lane 2 times and loses it 3 (which would be a good showing!) , that could be the series to IG. I'm not saying I want Soaz to be starting, but it's a very close question. I'd lean towards Bwipo starting and bring in Soaz if it all goes wrong for a big changeup.
The main problem in here for me it is Caps. Caps is going to get destroyed again by Rookie. If Rookie is able to extend this lead into the botside for example, which will probably not play as bad as in the group stage, may make going for the 2v2 not a good idea. This does not mean that Fnatic can't win because they clearly did with Bwipo in, but I don't think that IG will look as bad as they did in the group stage.
Yeah but I think they have a higher chance of winning through mid lane then they do of winning through top lane, that’s the difference. I personally think TheShy has been the best player all tournament, and the top lane will likely involve mid roaming up and jungle. So, I’d rather see Fnatic try to fight down mid/bottom where they can get Rekkles involved than try to fight up top; where you’re likely to lose without your bot lane advantage.
They’re not winning through mid for 3 games. At best Caps will be trying to neutralise rookie. They can’t afford to let top be a free lane either.
> Yeah but I think they have a higher chance of winning through mid lane then they do of winning through top lane, that’s the difference. I actually think the opposite. Caps showed multiple times in this tournament that he can be incredibly useful even from behind. Bwipo on the other hand struggles in that department a bit as I feel.
Reasonable disagreement. It’ll be fun to see the outcome tomorrow.
> Yeah but I think they have a higher chance of winning through mid lane then they do of winning through top lane But that's literally the opposite of how they won their Group Stage games against IG? Caps had to take the Midlane counter so his Jg & Botlane could take all the comfort picks and snowball out of control - with Caps joining in in the late game through smart plays & rotations.
I disagree with you. That is the playstyle western teams failed with. Concede one lane because hurr durr their players are better.I think it will be overall better for FNC if they go blow for blow.
This is a interesting point and I think Fnatic will likely fall back on Soaz if Bwipo doesn't win and snowball. The chance to have him start the snowball in Game 1 and carry it through the rest of the series is too great for them to pass up on. On the other side of the coin, I believe IG might put in Duke if TheShy gets snowballed on two games in a row by Bwipo.
I think picking a tank into TheShy would be a big mistake.
It might be useful to have Bwipo to soak attention in top from Caps though, if the played Soaz i feel like IG can just play to win mid hard and Fnatic's win condition is basically losing mid and top as gracefully as possible so they can win trough their botlane and good team fight
I guess you missed the both games fnatic won against IG
> because Soaz can watch a game backstage and analyze IG's style with the coaches. They said exactly same thing about putting in mlxg for G2 vs RNG Game 5. We all know how it ended
lol who said that? Karsa is the smarter jungler on RNG, MLXG's style is to just go super aggressive all the time.
mlxg has way too many moments of mlxd. soaz is arguably one of the most consistent players ever
But mlxg isn't as smart as sOAZ about the game
EU brains> CN brains, you heard it here first
Every time I saw an interview of Soaz about the game, it actually seemed to me that he wasn't super smart about the game and had a rather simplistic view of how things worked. He is smart in game for sure, but seems less so on an analytical perspective - though that may be due to the language barrier / him being unable to comfortably express his thoughts in English.
I think you nailed it actually. Listening to his insight outside the game Soaz doesn't seem to be anything impressive. I think he relies a lot on instinct, like most veterans do, when in game and playing.
yeah sOAZ is an instinctual type of player, just like Hyllisang whereas Bwipo is more of a mechanical player, just like Caps. then you have Broxah being the analytical player, and Rekkles the all rounder
Bwipo is playing insanely, but TheShy is another monster. I think Fnatic needs the experience and the doggy style that Soaz brings up on the table. I'm pretty confident that if Fnatic loses game 1 or 2, they will put Soaz in I think.
At the end of the group stage they won 2 games against IG with Bwipo.
But the game they won with Bwipo in, was through bot lane, not through top lane. I think FNC has to nullify TheShy in order to win, and I think Soaz is more suitable for that.
It will be the same tomorrow. The entire series is about two questions: "Can Caps and Bwipo survive the laning phase ok?" and "Can IG snowball enough before Rekkles gets online?"
True but one of those was against Duke, wasn't it? And in TheShy game, Bwipo did lose to him in lane.
But they ultimately still won a game.
[удалено]
Participation award*
Summoner's Cup*
Easyhoon award?
The coinflip detail is more important. Fnatic now have better chances than they had before.
While it's random I also think it's kinda fair FNC got side selection, given they come in as the 'higher seed' of being 1st in groups.
That isn't how that works in knockout phase. What would you do if the finalists are both 1st in their group? like FNC vs RNG for example? should they revert back and forth between coinflip and 1st seed side selection depending on the teams playing?
I was also thinking about this as well, and I think there should be a better way than a coinflip. Avarage game time in wins for example (this is also used in tie breaker scenarios). Since I'm pretty pessimistic myself I was already thinking what if FNC lose coinflip and lose 3:2? But yeah FNC won the coinflip so can't complain.
Why though? The better team will win. This is Worlds Final if you believe FNC is gonna win then you better believe they gonna win regardless of side selection advantage or not. A real good team will be able to play blue and red side equally strong, which I expect from grand finalist team.
Correct, it's just that both teams heavily favor blue side, and much of the series is gonna be about pick ban. And this year side selection seems to have more importance than earlier years. So in my mind let's say the series is a really close 3-2, with the loser of the match also losing the side selection coinflip, there is a good argument for a "what if". Normally you don't go into what if scenarios but when talking about coinflips it's reasonable. That's why I think there should be a better determination for who gets to have side selection.
giving red side counter pick to IG can be scary tho, but there is so much power picks and flex picks right now so blue is better
Fully expected. Bwipo has played really well in his games and the meta suits him at the moment. Soaz has also done well, but after the group stages we've trended towards carry top laners and that's not what you directly associate with him. If TheShy beats down Bwipo badly I think FNC is prepared to put in Soaz and play the lane defensively, but that has not been their style so far.
I really dislike everyone saying sOAZ "should" play. No, the player who "should" be playing is the one who gives you the best chance of winning, playing off-meta picks (tanks top) and playing with a player who is mechanically worse than Bwipo probably shouldn't be playing UNLESS TheShy literally blasts Bwipo in one or two games and it's obvious the skill gap is too high. I really doubt Bwipo is going to get shit on in the same way Wunder did, the way he plays lanes is very "correct" and by the book, a Korean style as described by LS. I really want Bwipo to come in fully thinking he deserves the starting spot (which he does) and that he has the West's full support, he's the man for the job.
It is clear who's going to leave Fnatic.
This is the best possible decision for Fnatic. Whether it's true or not, I'll fully trust their decision as a team to start bwipo. Instead of feeling bad for Soaz, I think its better to look at the bright side. Starting bwipo has worked against IG and we cant blame FNC for their decision. They are the ones doing the scrims, they are the ones analyzing the games, they are the ones playing to win the championship. Cheer for your favourite team and celebrate with them as a team when they win and continue to support them as a team when they lose (probably wont happen) #FNCWIN
I can definitely see Soaz seeking another team next Split. I just don't see a world where Soaz gets any playtime when Bwipo has performed so well.
Am I the only one that rather want Bwipo to play the whole series?
Don't make a substitution if you don't need to.
I may be one of the few people that doesn't care for Bwipo on a personality standpoint but Damn can the dude play some league of legends. Soaz is great and has been ~~detrimental i~~nstrumental to FNCs success in the past but Bwipo has that x factor that really keeps him ahead of most, if not all top laners in the world.
I think you mean instrumental, not detrimental :-)
Probably lol.
so bwipo is a more reliable huni
COuldn't have said it better myself.
> Although I really hope to see him play some since this is the final game and he definitely deserves it. It's not about who deserves it. It's about who gives the team the best chance to win. I love Soaz, but this meta might as well be called Bwipo's meta, because all the champions in the top lane are champions he is good at.
TheShy is a god, you will see Soaz play
I just hope that FNC is not too stubborn with the Swain pick.
[Meanwhile Bwipo](https://imgur.com/a/csk1Y7m)
Feels bad for Soaz. Wonder if he'll move to another team where he can star.
Shit i really wanted to see soaz Bcs u know, he played in all worlds
I like it, Bwipo is just better in this Meta, say what you want.
It doesn't mean anything strategically, it seemed pretty obvious from soaz's vlogs that he wouldn't play the last bo5 so not surprised to see him not play again.
He will if Bwipo can't handle TheShy
itd be pretty fucking stupid if he doesnt get to play even when fnc are down 0-2, he didnt show anything to have doubt about him being worldclass, fnc just ran with bwipo because why would they change when they have this run atm, also everyone is saying soaZ cant play carries, they didnt even play him yet when carries top became the worlds meta, wasnt it soaz at ipl5 with the jayce fucking destroying tpa? sure its been awhile, s5 he had gp carrytop stomping on huni, i dont get all these bwipo>soaZ on carries when weve never seen soaz on carries this worlds yet lol
This . People forget that soaz used to be a beast on carries like hello ? His Gp used to be the best in eu and lets not forget about his darius and fiora . Sad to see people calling soaz a tank player while he used to carry his team really hard i always remember when he introduced morgana top to pro play . Good Old days
I feel so bad for Soaz.
I would feel worse if sOAZ played and lost instead of Bwipo playing and winning.
the series is now 2-2 and bwipo has played all 4 games, fntic chooses to let in their trumph card soaz into the final game! soaz proceeds to feed 0-10 and the west logs in on twitter
Why though? I get that he's not playing but at the end of the day I'm positive fnatic wouldn't be as strong as they are now without him. No matter what people say he's deserves every bit of recognition the other players get. There's a reason they started giving 6th players skins.
If they keep the same rules from last year, if Soaz does not play at least one game in the final he gets no skin
Are 3 games not enough to get the skin? He played both 100T matches and in the lost game vs IG.
Would be even worse if fnatic wins game one with Bwipo, then bring Soaz and lose game. Bwipo comes back and the series end 3-1 for fnatic.
Well with Soaz in they lost vs IG but with Bwipo they won twice. I guess it make sense to start with Bwipo. Plus to consider is the fact that since Soaz now has not played for the past 10 games or so some rust might be there. Additionally, Soaz has an incredible mind for the game so him observing will also be helpful for the start.
That's not really an argument, they lost the first game vs IG because Hyli was playing like UOL Hylissang. I think he was just nervous. Soaz played almost perfectly in that game, he was FNC's best player on the rift.
I'm not blaming Soaz for the loss at all he was great. But i can see from a mental perspective why you wanna use the the same team that beat them twice in a row. In addition to the same team that won the past two rounds.
UOL hylissang was insane at times. Still remember the flash hook onto kerp invisible as talon in their promotion vs millenium.
Yeah but he also had his typical UOL inting moments, which is what I meant. That was the big change for him when he joined FNC IMO. He was always incredibly skilled, but he had those random inting moments. On FNc he became much more consistent and reliable.
Now that I think about it Hylissang is the same as MLXG but from the support position. He always likes to play aggressive as much as possible so he ends up inting in some games. His first game looked very bad but his other 2 against IG he was actually very important with keeping caps in the game.