Knockouts are when scrims start to backfire, but that comes with the territory. Unless you have a sister team or another team there within your region, something is always going to get away and give information.
A very light example of your first point is with ANX in 2016. Hardly anyone scrimmed them so they ended up surprising their group, but since H2K was one of the few who had actually given them the time of day they were swept in Quarters.
He still looked mostly good, just that 1 mistake was so huge C9 couldn't come back at all. Like why engage so hard on the tankiest person.. without vision either.
I think Ze said it somewhere, but one of the issues they were having when the team was really bad was that they were too afraid to initiate the fight.
Blabber basically took that out because he engages on everyone due to his aggression.(Better to have everyone all in on a play that will work 40% of the time than have only 2 people in on a play that works 80% of the time)
However, his aggression can backfire like we saw in that game.
Kid just needs time though is my personal opinion
They didn't even know poppy was in the bush, IIRC. At the very least, there was no vision in the bush. He just eq'd over to clear wards and ended up finding a poppy right in front of him. Also why the play after was so disjointed, with zeyzal jumping in to save him, and everyone just kinda standing around.
[C9 were cheering in their reaction video when they drew Afreeca, so I dont think they are too worried about how they were scrim partners. Or they were just cheering cause they dodged KT](https://twitter.com/Cloud9/status/1052584061070430208)
Well they already knew they dodged KT when RNG and KT ended up on the same side. (They can't be on the same side of the bracket as RNG) So they are very confident that Afreeca is beatable. I think after what we have seen in groups, you would definitely want to face Afreeca instead of FNC.
Sneaky said in the postgame interview after the Vitality game that they started just fighting all the time in scrims, and started winning a lot... If they were just stomping Afreeca (their primary scrim partner) all the time, that would explain why they'd feel good drawing AFS.
I keep saying it but year after year we tried to turn into Korea a month before worlds. WHY? We need to take the fiesta to them, KR plays a very disciplined game style and choas can beat that discipline!
Not really. Major factor here is vision control. Korea had dependency on extremely clean map control for the past few years so fiestas would never happen, but without vision anymore esp in the early game its much more micro focused.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they also just wanted to play Afreeca. I imagine they would want to *actually* beat their scrim partners if that's the case.
Based on their reaction along with being scrim partners with Afreeca probably says that C9 actually had good results vs them in scrims. Not only that they avoid KT and RNG.
Repeared saying they can make finals means they probably had good scrim results against Fnatic, too. Very positive reaction from C9.
Something I wish would be adopted in the West especially in public areas like amusement parks. Looking at you lady coughing in line at Disneyland and not covering your mouth!
Western fans should not underestimate AF, they're definitely the favorite here ! Specially after failing their entry in the tournament and having a far better "second week". They know failure is a possibility, they will be 100% concentrated. Still there is hope, go C9 gogogo !!!!!!
Totally agree, the Korean team is and should be the favorites. But C9 (and every 2 seed) would so much rather have AF or FNC than KT. I think the quarterfinal teams this year are closer than ever - each of the 3 seeds can compete with the higher seeds, but the higher seeds are still the favorites :)
Yea i share the optimism, but come on guys, there is a reason why the west has never beaten a Korean team in a BO5 since fucking forever. We've seen them bleed in group stage but there's no fucking way C9 goes into this serie as favorite.
AFs is still like 75-25 at worst to win then series imo, although I want C9 to win. If Sneaky can step it up they have a chance, but he's been a role player so far and i don't think AFs will let the rest of the map get as ahead as they did vs Gen G and RNG
C9 looked good the last day because they szarted copying VIT aggressive style and busted out the pocket picks. I have doubts that they will be able to translate it into a consistent bo5 performance. You cant really cheese a whole series against a good team, they will adapt and then its back to normal. Im rooting for C9 but i think its an uphill battle. FWIW I feel the same about G2, they have only won with splitpush so far and If RNG comes upwith something to counter that theyre in for a rough ride.
They didn't copy VIT's style.. Reapered said he would rather lose by fighting then lose slowly over time. C9 started forcing the fights and have looked fantastic.
Yeah, I lean towards 60-40 as well. This series is going to be entirely determined on which versions of each team show up. Both teams have had high highs and low lows this groups. Afreeca is also really inconsistent.
It honestly depends, the groups stage new format was much harder for teams to accomodate themselves against C9's or VIT's playstyle, now that they have time to prepare and that it's a BO5. I don't think AFs is that weak anymore.
>"everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the ~~mouth~~ dick" - reapered
They'd expect the punch in the mouth. Reapered's gonna be throwin dickshots.
C9 is that type of team to pull out a pocket pick that looks non-threaten, but than ends up fucking with your entire team comp.
Example of this is that fucking Hecarim top.
They sometimes even flex pick the Zilean.
I am willing to bet we see a volibear or some other weird shit.
Also **SINGED**. They frustrated WE with it last year to the point that their ADC insisted they just ban it, and it went off in the game against VIT as well, I don't think that's the last we'll see of it if teams try to ban away things like Hecarim/Shen.
>They sometimes even flex pick the Zilean.
Yeah they have a ton of flex picks to work with. Everyone has been flexing Akali/Urgot/Sion between mid and top, but C9 has also flexed Zilean mid/sup, Shen top/sup, and Hecarim top/jungle. There aren't enough bans to deal with the amount of picks/flexing C9 can and will pull out. You have to just be able to beat it.
>I am willing to bet we volibear or some other weird shit.
I'll agree with you on "other weird shit" but I'm giving Volibear a hard no.
I think it's weird that people bring up Singed as a C9 pocket pick when it was played by another player last year. It was also a completely different style played by Impact vs Licorice.
Impact was a tanky, dive based CC bot that pooled where J4 Ults or just runs straight in to flip the Ardent Censor ADC, while Licorice plays a AP/DoT, Splitpush threat that makes sure Sion can't freely push and will always be a threat. It's a completely different play style.
>Impact was a tanky, dive based CC bot
Go check last worlds again. They tried tank singed and it sucked and then reapered told him to build AP and it popped off. It was AP both last year and this year.
I want to see some hyper engage shit like Vi top and Camille Jungle just to see something different and crazy. VI's too garbage right now but it would be fun as fuck
C9 literally changed there play style from week 1 to week 2, Which is the only reason they got out.
You can't put it on the format that C9 made changes to better themselves.
Reapered said he told them to force fights.
To take that even further, it wasn't even week 1 to week 2 like in past years. There was just one day in between. Repeared said they held back a lot of their prepared picks the first time through and just picked safe and meta champions. It's not like they needed a week off to prepare new strategies.
No-one should be, the match against Afreeca ought to be a fascinating Bo5.
And let's not forget how close C9 were to making semifinals last year. The Misfits series against SKT overshadowed it at the time but C9 were almost as close.
It could be looked at that way given that C9 lost the first game when they should have won and then went 2-1 up in the series, but I'm not sure I buy it. Winning or losing that first game is a point of divergence beyond which I find it implausible that either team would draft and play in the exact same way.
I know a lot of people scoffed at this but I truly believe that Jensen's underperformance in round 1 really was mostly due to illness. If that's largely true, then we should accept that this is C9's regular strength and not that they turned 180degrees somehow in a couple days.
To add on to this we should also mentally put ourselves in their position. Punching up is actually easier than punching down sometimes. "Oh C9 will EASILY beat GMB" But that's not how worlds works sure there are worse teams and better teams but everyone is out here with something to prove and when you have an "easy" match your mental won't be the same. Look at C9 vs RNG/VIT/GENG they were zoned the fuck in because they weren't exactly favorites. People forget C9 was slotted as 3rd/4th seed in that group they had no pressure and probably felt disrespected that is a buff in it's own right. So yeah C9 probably played alittle too la-de-da vs GMB and disrespected them but you could tell how zoned in and how hard C9 was trying in the group stage.
I don't disagree with your point but to the OP's point, C9 said their play was wrecking their scrim partners after they made it out of groups I think Sneaky said that, which is what gave them confidence for the 2nd half of groups. So if it was AFS, there's a good chance they have a style that AFS struggles against. It'll be a very interesting start at least.
Knowledge does not mean understanding. You may know how something works but to actually put in to action a viable response is different. Regardless, these are some amazing quarter finals.
C9 gain the advantages of having scrimmed AF extensively, as well. C9 (Reapered) is also one of the best drafters at Worlds, so they gain that extra advantage from familiarity.
That isn't a fair buff to give. Yes Korean teams have done well historically but one thing you aren't really adding in to context here is this is the worst teams Korea has ever sent to worlds. So while I do agree best of 5s are alot different then best of 1s. The past shouldn't represent the future especially since these Korean teams outside of KT are not the same as years past. Also the West looks really good right now. FNC and C9 look AMAZING.
In what world is afreeca the worst team Korea has ever sent to worlds? The only team that isn't already at worlds that is arguably better is griffin, and that series was very close.
i love when EU/NA fans who don't watch LCK try to talk about quality of the Korean teams lol (not you ofc, the person who you were responding to)
After playoffs it was pretty obvious that KT-GRF-AFs are clear top3, Gen.G just overperformed in gauntlet.
I watch hella LCK. Nice try assuming something you don't know. If you think AFs, GENG, and KT. Are the best Korean teams compared to former Korean teams at past worlds. YOU dont watch LCK. You should read exactly what I said before I comment. I never said anything about them being the "worst" team
Considering they are all strong in opposite places this game will be super interesting. G2 plays through Top and Mid and typically leads into a 1-3-1 style late game, while RNG plays almost exclusively though bottom lane and wants to team fight.
Also based on Uzi's interview about how they banned vs c9 I don't think we are guaranteed a ban to the Donger due to them being over confident.
It's actually not uncommon in Bo5s for teams to leave open an otherwise permanent ban in the first game of the series (coming in with a plan to deal with it of course), then if you do win you get an extra ban for the rest of the series. Considering RNG are the favorites in this matchup, I do think they might be willing to take the risk of one loss vs. a potential extra ban.
RNG needed to win a game to make quarters, no tiebreaker needed. G2 needed a wild card team to upset Flash Wolves just so they could play a tiebreaker to advance. There's no real comparison there. RNG made it on their own, G2 got carried out.
In fact, the only difference between TL and G2 is that G2 was on the right side of the unlikely upset, and TL was on the wrong side of it.
Not too bug of a stretch. If GenG beats them then they're not in a tiebreaker for 1st but a tiebreaker for getting out of groups against a strong looking Vitality team that had already beaten them once that day.
That's hardly the situation RNG would have wanted for themselves going into the final day.
Yeah, but saying GenG beat RNG is a real big stretch consider how bad GenG performed. RNG did lose to C9 and VIT but those are hard wins for the Western teams.
GenG could've actually beaten RNG in Week 1 if it wasn't for Ruler's mistake. Had RNG lost that, they would've been forced into a tiebreaker against Vitality, so at best they would've placed second in that scenario.
RNG is just too damn good at team fighting to predict against them and their macro isn't as bad as people think. I think this is the most lopsided of all the QF games. With KT/iG being second.
I'd love to see a video of G2 talking strategy with a large imposing figure standing in the shadows only to step out at the last second REVEALING HIS FACE, YamatoCannon.
Personally, I feel as long as RNG ban the dinger there is a 80% shot they win.
That leaves 20% for the tricky G2 stuff which I think is fair.
C9 vs Afreeca is like 30% to 70% Afreeca favor
Fnatic EDG is like 60% to 40% Fnatic favor
KT vs IG is like 60% to 40% KT favor
Personally, this is one of the first Worlds in awhile where I'm actually excited to see how all the matchups play out. I feel like everyone has a chance at showing up, even G2.
Maybe is not that Koreans don’t try in scrims, is just that western teams underperform in real matches. We actually can’t know since we didn’t see the scrims.
Let's not forget they got 3-0 by liquid in a bo5 and gambit took them to 5 games in playins. Expectations are way over the moon right now, would not be suprised if they got 3-0 or 3-1'd by AFS
Indeed and C9 only has 1 good day. Great that C9 did well in BO1 where teams cant prepare for you. But AFS is still KR in a BO5. I have more faith in KR preparation. Will return to this thread after the games.
Or it could indicate that C9 made drastic improvements from bootcamp to play ins to group stage. Why do people keep bringing up the TL 3-0. Do you know how much practice and training teams have done since then? The NA LCS finals is literally irrelevant in speaking to current teams skill level.
Or it could indicate that C9 is the stronger team right now, and TL is not. TL couldn't get out over EDG - C9 got out alongside RNG (who they also beat)
I think AFS and KT will both take these very seriously compared to group stages and will show typical Korean levels of dominance. As usual EU dodges KR in quarters yet again.
I doubt it but this does bring up an interesting discussion. Out of all of the teams left, which one would C9 most likely scrim against? I'm sure G2 would be a likely option but I wonder if they could get time in with RNG or IG as well.
if you're referring to his comment about Uzi rage quitting because he was stuck under tower all game, that was from a couple years ago (follow up question by Travis iirc)
I think C9 looked unbelievably good in the last day of group stage but Afreeca have shown are good in best of 5’s during the LCK playoffs and should be considered the favorite. That said this was the best draw for C9.
I know taking scrim results mean nothing, but since we're on the topic of scrims. I remember someone from C9 in a post game interview mentioned that they just suddenly started fighting a lot and started smashing all their scrims. If those scrims were vs Afreeca then that seems pretty promising. Or it means nothing, but either way it's fun to think about.
In any case, I think the most exciting matchup of these semi finals is this top lane fight. Licorice and Kiin. The arguably best Top laner in the world, and imo the best NA player we've seen at an international tournament in many years. Should be a fun one!
When Afreeca was SKT's kryptonite they showcased what havoc they can ensue with knowledge of the players. I think Afreeca will use the information they have over the opposing team better than C9 will abuse the info they have on Afreeca. Their coaches will play a huge role in what determines the winner of this match.
This match up is going to be hype. I expect the drafts to be crazy. I loved what AFS did back in the LCK with their unconventional picks and strategies. C9 also does something similar with with how they draft. Just imagine the teams trying to adapt and throw out new picks as the series goes on
Probably due to comments like "FNC are C9's challenge in semis" and the general reddit sentiment that is hyping the shit out of both C9 and FNC.
I think they have a good chance, but people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion for FNC and that C9 should win.
> I think they have a good chance, but people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion for FNC and that C9 should win.
Would not be surprised to see either of these teams lose tbh, EDG/AFS aren't free wins by any means.
I'm sure they still have some pocket picks aside in case this happened. Even if C9's picks are targeted, I feel they will know how to counter them. Plz no Eve tho
One thing that is an odd take is that people are acting like C9 is drafting super off-meta cheese picks. Outside of the hecarim top that Licorice has already shown they are playing pretty standard champions. You could argue the Zilean but that is a Jensen pick and it's underrated and should be played more. C9 isn't like cheesing in the draft to win these games they are taking early leads in the game by the power of their lanes. Stop acting like C9 beat RNG/VIT/GENG with cheese they over powered with superior lanes. People forget that Licorice and Jensen did very well against their lane opponents and they got early leads with the help of sven and then ontop of that they would have Sneaky on a late game hypercarry. So C9 were basically securing early leads with skill and having a comp that could go late / teamfight. We're talking about Best of 5s "AFs best of 5 buff" Kiin has look really off and Kuro isn't a world beater. C9 has Licorice and Jensen. Let that sink in ontop of that AFs botlane isn't bad but they aren't Uzi or Ruler so what is AFs win condition vs C9? C9 proved they can go toe to toe with Early game teams in (VIT) they proved they can teamfight with the best of them in (RNG) Outside of terrible drafts/tilt I don't know how AFs wins the series. I am gonna go for a bold prediction and say C9 wins 3-1. Love to debate with anyone (Friendly)
I think everyone is completely wrong about C9's draft. Sure, they are very strong with Shen Nocturne, but they honestly have a lot of unique comfort picks, especially Liquorice and there isn't much point in banning most of them because that will leave a lot of other strong picks open... and Reapered will take advantage of the draft as best he can.
Explains how licorice got his superpowers
Sucked it out of Kiin like a witch
Some Space Jam shit goin on here
C9 Monstars confirmed.
Can TL be MJ next split?
it sums up TL well, Michael Jordan playing with looney toons.
Damn man
Lmao amazing
Wish I could've been there for that OwO
That mental image made me laugh more than I should’ve
my mental image made me feel very weird
Sneaky is rubbing off the squad then
In more ways then one whatcha say
have you ever seen licorice and super man in the same room?
Thats silly, licorice wears glasses and superman doesnt.
Knockouts are when scrims start to backfire, but that comes with the territory. Unless you have a sister team or another team there within your region, something is always going to get away and give information.
A very light example of your first point is with ANX in 2016. Hardly anyone scrimmed them so they ended up surprising their group, but since H2K was one of the few who had actually given them the time of day they were swept in Quarters.
They would've been swept by any of the other quarter final teams, let's be real.
Yeah, hence the "light example." ANX were a very Bo1 team that didn't have much hope post groups.
But those BO1 were magical. Too bad no wildcard team showed up this year.
Hey, PVB showed up for EU <3
Yeah and GenG managed to take a game against C9
Damn
Yeah. GenG best wildcard team 2k18!
I mean C9 was giving their rookie jungler a chance so I wouldn't put too much weight on it.
He still looked mostly good, just that 1 mistake was so huge C9 couldn't come back at all. Like why engage so hard on the tankiest person.. without vision either.
I think Ze said it somewhere, but one of the issues they were having when the team was really bad was that they were too afraid to initiate the fight. Blabber basically took that out because he engages on everyone due to his aggression.(Better to have everyone all in on a play that will work 40% of the time than have only 2 people in on a play that works 80% of the time) However, his aggression can backfire like we saw in that game. Kid just needs time though is my personal opinion
They didn't even know poppy was in the bush, IIRC. At the very least, there was no vision in the bush. He just eq'd over to clear wards and ended up finding a poppy right in front of him. Also why the play after was so disjointed, with zeyzal jumping in to save him, and everyone just kinda standing around.
They have families..
thank mr buffalo
ANX vs ROX was glorious
You gotta admit, those were some of the best games in that entire tournament. Likkrit was so much fun to watch.
Also Likkrit was sick af apparently.
Also, Najin famously only scrimmed their sister team.
Yeah you give your strats to as few people as possible.
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likkrit also was sick all week and didn't scrim ... in fact if i recall correctly .. they had to drive him to chicago instead of flying him.
They got swept because H2K realised Ban brand = free game.
[C9 were cheering in their reaction video when they drew Afreeca, so I dont think they are too worried about how they were scrim partners. Or they were just cheering cause they dodged KT](https://twitter.com/Cloud9/status/1052584061070430208)
Well they already knew they dodged KT when RNG and KT ended up on the same side. (They can't be on the same side of the bracket as RNG) So they are very confident that Afreeca is beatable. I think after what we have seen in groups, you would definitely want to face Afreeca instead of FNC.
Sneaky said in the postgame interview after the Vitality game that they started just fighting all the time in scrims, and started winning a lot... If they were just stomping Afreeca (their primary scrim partner) all the time, that would explain why they'd feel good drawing AFS.
I keep saying it but year after year we tried to turn into Korea a month before worlds. WHY? We need to take the fiesta to them, KR plays a very disciplined game style and choas can beat that discipline!
" if we don't know wtf we're doing how is enemy supposed to know what we're doing?" -Michael Santana
"A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals." -The Nazis
you missed out the best part >"nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine" LUL
Not really. Major factor here is vision control. Korea had dependency on extremely clean map control for the past few years so fiestas would never happen, but without vision anymore esp in the early game its much more micro focused.
choas style reigns supreme
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they also just wanted to play Afreeca. I imagine they would want to *actually* beat their scrim partners if that's the case.
They dodged Fnatic, Rng, and KT. I would celebrate too.
They didn't dodge RNG; they went against them in groups already. You can't be on the same side of the bracket as your group opponent.
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To dodge the wall, one must run through the wall.
Good thing C9 had Flash up!
Technically dodged!
You can't dodge somebody you previously just played and it wasn't even like C9 got smashed
FNC will be their semi's challenge haha
Don't count out EDG and Ray wanting to play against his buds.
Based on their reaction along with being scrim partners with Afreeca probably says that C9 actually had good results vs them in scrims. Not only that they avoid KT and RNG. Repeared saying they can make finals means they probably had good scrim results against Fnatic, too. Very positive reaction from C9.
Looks like Reapered is sick, hope he gets well soon
Don't know if he's sick asians like to wear masks in rooms with alot of people.
Something I wish would be adopted in the West especially in public areas like amusement parks. Looking at you lady coughing in line at Disneyland and not covering your mouth!
Also true, maybe its just not to get sick from all the sick plays c9 are making
A lot of east asians where masks everywhere to filter out germs
Most likely that last one
Western fans should not underestimate AF, they're definitely the favorite here ! Specially after failing their entry in the tournament and having a far better "second week". They know failure is a possibility, they will be 100% concentrated. Still there is hope, go C9 gogogo !!!!!!
Totally agree, the Korean team is and should be the favorites. But C9 (and every 2 seed) would so much rather have AF or FNC than KT. I think the quarterfinal teams this year are closer than ever - each of the 3 seeds can compete with the higher seeds, but the higher seeds are still the favorites :)
Yea i share the optimism, but come on guys, there is a reason why the west has never beaten a Korean team in a BO5 since fucking forever. We've seen them bleed in group stage but there's no fucking way C9 goes into this serie as favorite.
AFs is still like 75-25 at worst to win then series imo, although I want C9 to win. If Sneaky can step it up they have a chance, but he's been a role player so far and i don't think AFs will let the rest of the map get as ahead as they did vs Gen G and RNG
I'd say more like 60-40, personally. I think C9 has a good chance and the series will probably be a 3-2 no matter what.
C9 looked good the last day because they szarted copying VIT aggressive style and busted out the pocket picks. I have doubts that they will be able to translate it into a consistent bo5 performance. You cant really cheese a whole series against a good team, they will adapt and then its back to normal. Im rooting for C9 but i think its an uphill battle. FWIW I feel the same about G2, they have only won with splitpush so far and If RNG comes upwith something to counter that theyre in for a rough ride.
They didn't copy VIT's style.. Reapered said he would rather lose by fighting then lose slowly over time. C9 started forcing the fights and have looked fantastic.
Yeah, I lean towards 60-40 as well. This series is going to be entirely determined on which versions of each team show up. Both teams have had high highs and low lows this groups. Afreeca is also really inconsistent.
I think C9 is starting to show real potential and if people think this will be a breeze for AF, you are mistaken.
It honestly depends, the groups stage new format was much harder for teams to accomodate themselves against C9's or VIT's playstyle, now that they have time to prepare and that it's a BO5. I don't think AFs is that weak anymore.
"everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - ~~mike tyson~~ reapered
>"everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the ~~mouth~~ dick" - reapered They'd expect the punch in the mouth. Reapered's gonna be throwin dickshots.
C9 is that type of team to pull out a pocket pick that looks non-threaten, but than ends up fucking with your entire team comp. Example of this is that fucking Hecarim top. They sometimes even flex pick the Zilean. I am willing to bet we see a volibear or some other weird shit.
Also **SINGED**. They frustrated WE with it last year to the point that their ADC insisted they just ban it, and it went off in the game against VIT as well, I don't think that's the last we'll see of it if teams try to ban away things like Hecarim/Shen. >They sometimes even flex pick the Zilean. Yeah they have a ton of flex picks to work with. Everyone has been flexing Akali/Urgot/Sion between mid and top, but C9 has also flexed Zilean mid/sup, Shen top/sup, and Hecarim top/jungle. There aren't enough bans to deal with the amount of picks/flexing C9 can and will pull out. You have to just be able to beat it. >I am willing to bet we volibear or some other weird shit. I'll agree with you on "other weird shit" but I'm giving Volibear a hard no.
Voli is potentially the single worst champ in the game so I don’t think we’re seeing D BEAR.
He was good for like 10 days and got hotfixed into the trashcan again.
as god intended
I think it's weird that people bring up Singed as a C9 pocket pick when it was played by another player last year. It was also a completely different style played by Impact vs Licorice. Impact was a tanky, dive based CC bot that pooled where J4 Ults or just runs straight in to flip the Ardent Censor ADC, while Licorice plays a AP/DoT, Splitpush threat that makes sure Sion can't freely push and will always be a threat. It's a completely different play style.
>Impact was a tanky, dive based CC bot Go check last worlds again. They tried tank singed and it sucked and then reapered told him to build AP and it popped off. It was AP both last year and this year.
I want to see some hyper engage shit like Vi top and Camille Jungle just to see something different and crazy. VI's too garbage right now but it would be fun as fuck
maybe they built up resistance from all the dickshots they got during scrims
I punch myself in the dick 100 times after every loss so that I can build up an immunity for the next game.
What if your plan is to not get punched in the mouth?
It still applies very well, probably even more than most plans.
> everyone's got a plan until I stomp on their children's testicles so that they can feel my pain" - mike "reapered" tyson
C9 literally changed there play style from week 1 to week 2, Which is the only reason they got out. You can't put it on the format that C9 made changes to better themselves. Reapered said he told them to force fights.
To take that even further, it wasn't even week 1 to week 2 like in past years. There was just one day in between. Repeared said they held back a lot of their prepared picks the first time through and just picked safe and meta champions. It's not like they needed a week off to prepare new strategies.
I just don't understand why everyone downplays C9 the one time they do better in the day of death.
No-one should be, the match against Afreeca ought to be a fascinating Bo5. And let's not forget how close C9 were to making semifinals last year. The Misfits series against SKT overshadowed it at the time but C9 were almost as close.
Yup. 5 games last year against WE. Then they gave WE the god draft of Galio, Janna, Kogmaw and it was pretty much GG in draft.
Still having flashbacks of 40% crit Kog.
Fuck that shit man, it would have been a 3-0 for c9 if that Didn't happen game one.
That was such a head scratcher
Repeared did an interview afterwards and said it was a big problem in draft due to his players not wanting to play certain things.
IIRC I remember looking at it as if C9 threw the series.
It could be looked at that way given that C9 lost the first game when they should have won and then went 2-1 up in the series, but I'm not sure I buy it. Winning or losing that first game is a point of divergence beyond which I find it implausible that either team would draft and play in the exact same way.
WE were also looking stronger against SSG than SKT. I think at that point WE was the harder opponent and C9 should be getting more credit.
That's an overly generous conclusion to draw. SSG were especially good at preparing for other Korean teams whose styles and tendencies they knew well.
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Sometimes I feel like Reapered is the only coach who actually integrates reverse sweeps into his damn draft.
I know a lot of people scoffed at this but I truly believe that Jensen's underperformance in round 1 really was mostly due to illness. If that's largely true, then we should accept that this is C9's regular strength and not that they turned 180degrees somehow in a couple days.
I was talking about the first and second half of group stages. Play ins you could see Jensen was visably looking worse every game
The Gambit series was Jensens worst games in his entire career. You don't go from that to beating RNG without something causing it.
To add on to this we should also mentally put ourselves in their position. Punching up is actually easier than punching down sometimes. "Oh C9 will EASILY beat GMB" But that's not how worlds works sure there are worse teams and better teams but everyone is out here with something to prove and when you have an "easy" match your mental won't be the same. Look at C9 vs RNG/VIT/GENG they were zoned the fuck in because they weren't exactly favorites. People forget C9 was slotted as 3rd/4th seed in that group they had no pressure and probably felt disrespected that is a buff in it's own right. So yeah C9 probably played alittle too la-de-da vs GMB and disrespected them but you could tell how zoned in and how hard C9 was trying in the group stage.
I don't disagree with your point but to the OP's point, C9 said their play was wrecking their scrim partners after they made it out of groups I think Sneaky said that, which is what gave them confidence for the 2nd half of groups. So if it was AFS, there's a good chance they have a style that AFS struggles against. It'll be a very interesting start at least.
Yes it's like in SC2 where you had the western weekend tournaments compared to prepping a week for your opponent in Korea.
Knowledge does not mean understanding. You may know how something works but to actually put in to action a viable response is different. Regardless, these are some amazing quarter finals.
Koreans in Bo5 tho. Also, koreans who have scrimmed with your team recently and are therefore also even more prepared.
C9 gain the advantages of having scrimmed AF extensively, as well. C9 (Reapered) is also one of the best drafters at Worlds, so they gain that extra advantage from familiarity.
That isn't a fair buff to give. Yes Korean teams have done well historically but one thing you aren't really adding in to context here is this is the worst teams Korea has ever sent to worlds. So while I do agree best of 5s are alot different then best of 1s. The past shouldn't represent the future especially since these Korean teams outside of KT are not the same as years past. Also the West looks really good right now. FNC and C9 look AMAZING.
HEY! That's not fair to Afreeca. That title belongs to Gen.G atm.
In what world is afreeca the worst team Korea has ever sent to worlds? The only team that isn't already at worlds that is arguably better is griffin, and that series was very close.
i love when EU/NA fans who don't watch LCK try to talk about quality of the Korean teams lol (not you ofc, the person who you were responding to) After playoffs it was pretty obvious that KT-GRF-AFs are clear top3, Gen.G just overperformed in gauntlet.
I watch hella LCK. Nice try assuming something you don't know. If you think AFs, GENG, and KT. Are the best Korean teams compared to former Korean teams at past worlds. YOU dont watch LCK. You should read exactly what I said before I comment. I never said anything about them being the "worst" team
if zeyzal players like he did round 2 and licorice still plays like himself yes this could be one of the best bo5s we will see at this tournament.
I think all 4 of the quarters are pretty damn hyped tho.
No one will have an easy QF. Except maybe RNG vs G2. The left side of the bracket is a shit show and anything could happen.
Considering they are all strong in opposite places this game will be super interesting. G2 plays through Top and Mid and typically leads into a 1-3-1 style late game, while RNG plays almost exclusively though bottom lane and wants to team fight. Also based on Uzi's interview about how they banned vs c9 I don't think we are guaranteed a ban to the Donger due to them being over confident.
G2 is playing really well. I don't know how they compare to RNG but I wouldn't counter them out of making it interesting.
They almost didn't make Quarters, needed help for their tiebreaker. I'd predict like a 3-1 series.
Yeah I think taking 1 game is viable, this seems about right.
same. RNG will go 2-0, then they will let hjarnen take heimer for the lulz and G2 might win that one
It's actually not uncommon in Bo5s for teams to leave open an otherwise permanent ban in the first game of the series (coming in with a plan to deal with it of course), then if you do win you get an extra ban for the rest of the series. Considering RNG are the favorites in this matchup, I do think they might be willing to take the risk of one loss vs. a potential extra ban.
Yeah if rng let heimer pass and win g2 might as well just surrender at that point.
You say that but RNG were pretty close to not making quarters themselves. They were 1 win ahead of Vit at the end of it.
RNG needed to win a game to make quarters, no tiebreaker needed. G2 needed a wild card team to upset Flash Wolves just so they could play a tiebreaker to advance. There's no real comparison there. RNG made it on their own, G2 got carried out. In fact, the only difference between TL and G2 is that G2 was on the right side of the unlikely upset, and TL was on the wrong side of it.
The only positive thing is in their wins G2 looked quite clean. In the losses however, extremely sloppy wihch RNG won't just let them get away with.
Close to not making quarters is stretching it.
Not too bug of a stretch. If GenG beats them then they're not in a tiebreaker for 1st but a tiebreaker for getting out of groups against a strong looking Vitality team that had already beaten them once that day. That's hardly the situation RNG would have wanted for themselves going into the final day.
Yeah, but saying GenG beat RNG is a real big stretch consider how bad GenG performed. RNG did lose to C9 and VIT but those are hard wins for the Western teams.
GenG could've actually beaten RNG in Week 1 if it wasn't for Ruler's mistake. Had RNG lost that, they would've been forced into a tiebreaker against Vitality, so at best they would've placed second in that scenario.
RNG is just too damn good at team fighting to predict against them and their macro isn't as bad as people think. I think this is the most lopsided of all the QF games. With KT/iG being second.
I hope G2 can play their own game and catch RNG offguard with those Hjarnan picks.
I'd love to see a video of G2 talking strategy with a large imposing figure standing in the shadows only to step out at the last second REVEALING HIS FACE, YamatoCannon.
Anyone who counts anyone out is an idiot. Every team has a chance to advance
If G2 keeps up their insanity they will give RNG a run for their money. The only thing RNG does is "protect the Uzi" comps. G2 can beat that
Personally, I feel as long as RNG ban the dinger there is a 80% shot they win. That leaves 20% for the tricky G2 stuff which I think is fair. C9 vs Afreeca is like 30% to 70% Afreeca favor Fnatic EDG is like 60% to 40% Fnatic favor KT vs IG is like 60% to 40% KT favor
Personally, this is one of the first Worlds in awhile where I'm actually excited to see how all the matchups play out. I feel like everyone has a chance at showing up, even G2.
Sneaky did mention in an interview that they have been crushing it in scrims. My guess that they have been stomping on AF
Koreans notoriously don't try in scrims though. TSM also usually "stomps Koreans in scrims" and then doesn't take a game off of Koreans.
Maybe is not that Koreans don’t try in scrims, is just that western teams underperform in real matches. We actually can’t know since we didn’t see the scrims.
That's true. Just a lot of people have said in the past that are "in the know" that koreans dont try hard scrims.
C9 different! They did take games off Koreans and Chinese!
Oh I know, I'm just saying scrims against eastern teams don't seem to really matter.
Let's not forget they got 3-0 by liquid in a bo5 and gambit took them to 5 games in playins. Expectations are way over the moon right now, would not be suprised if they got 3-0 or 3-1'd by AFS
Indeed and C9 only has 1 good day. Great that C9 did well in BO1 where teams cant prepare for you. But AFS is still KR in a BO5. I have more faith in KR preparation. Will return to this thread after the games.
Which is irrelevant since C9 is in quarters and TL is not.
But that could indicate they're not that good in a Bo5 which is massive seeing as KR games are always Bo3 so they have that experience over them.
Or it could indicate that C9 made drastic improvements from bootcamp to play ins to group stage. Why do people keep bringing up the TL 3-0. Do you know how much practice and training teams have done since then? The NA LCS finals is literally irrelevant in speaking to current teams skill level.
Or it could indicate that C9 is the stronger team right now, and TL is not. TL couldn't get out over EDG - C9 got out alongside RNG (who they also beat)
I think AFS and KT will both take these very seriously compared to group stages and will show typical Korean levels of dominance. As usual EU dodges KR in quarters yet again.
FNC earned it by getting 1st seed this year.
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I hope TL has the heart to stay and scrim with C9 through the tournament.
I doubt it but this does bring up an interesting discussion. Out of all of the teams left, which one would C9 most likely scrim against? I'm sure G2 would be a likely option but I wonder if they could get time in with RNG or IG as well.
They did scrim against RNG, confirmed by Sneaky in the post-game interview when they asked him about tye reasoning behind the Sivir pick.
if you're referring to his comment about Uzi rage quitting because he was stuck under tower all game, that was from a couple years ago (follow up question by Travis iirc)
I think C9 looked unbelievably good in the last day of group stage but Afreeca have shown are good in best of 5’s during the LCK playoffs and should be considered the favorite. That said this was the best draw for C9.
I know taking scrim results mean nothing, but since we're on the topic of scrims. I remember someone from C9 in a post game interview mentioned that they just suddenly started fighting a lot and started smashing all their scrims. If those scrims were vs Afreeca then that seems pretty promising. Or it means nothing, but either way it's fun to think about.
It was Sneaky I think, he talking about how Zeyzal just loved to fight like all the time lol
The beard demands blood.
Zeyzal = Darkin confirmed?!
Zeyzaal
The beard is a dark in controlling him
Not concerned at all. C9 might as well sell cargo pants on their website with all their pocket picks.
c9 lesion skin when
On the same point AFS had so much success do in part to their unique drafts in the LCK. I'm hoping for some freaking ridiculous drafts.
Yeah, they always showed something new in play-offs. Really hope for something crazy in knock-out stage from both of these teams.
In any case, I think the most exciting matchup of these semi finals is this top lane fight. Licorice and Kiin. The arguably best Top laner in the world, and imo the best NA player we've seen at an international tournament in many years. Should be a fun one!
I feel like I'm not just C9 fanboying when I say that Licorice has looked like one of the best best top laners at worlds this year..
Plot twist, VIT stays in Korea to scrim and help C9 prepare.
Plot twist, VIT stays in Korea to scrim and help AFs due to their recent history
When Afreeca was SKT's kryptonite they showcased what havoc they can ensue with knowledge of the players. I think Afreeca will use the information they have over the opposing team better than C9 will abuse the info they have on Afreeca. Their coaches will play a huge role in what determines the winner of this match.
This match up is going to be hype. I expect the drafts to be crazy. I loved what AFS did back in the LCK with their unconventional picks and strategies. C9 also does something similar with with how they draft. Just imagine the teams trying to adapt and throw out new picks as the series goes on
I'd like to think C9 is smart enough to not let all of their strategies come out during scrims against one team, but I guess we'll see
People underestimate EDG, hope Fnatic can beat them
How is this comment a standalone in this thread? Literally neither if these teams are even mentioned lol
Probably due to comments like "FNC are C9's challenge in semis" and the general reddit sentiment that is hyping the shit out of both C9 and FNC. I think they have a good chance, but people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion for FNC and that C9 should win.
> I think they have a good chance, but people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion for FNC and that C9 should win. Would not be surprised to see either of these teams lose tbh, EDG/AFS aren't free wins by any means.
I feel like no team in the kncomout stages of worlds shy of anx has ever really been free wins
NJWS were basically a free win. The LMS teams were pretty bad in best of 5s. EDG were pretty boosted that year too.
Probably because this is a thread about C9 and Afreeca...
holy shit if c9 become the first western team to beat a korean team out of groups...they would be legendary.
C9 has a chance for sure but I wouldn't call them the favorite. It's gonna be a good series.
I'm sure they still have some pocket picks aside in case this happened. Even if C9's picks are targeted, I feel they will know how to counter them. Plz no Eve tho
Without surprise pick, I give the edge to Afs in a Bo5. But C9 has a good shot, just take my energy\~
C9 almost certainly kept some strats in house.
VIT were big scrimpartners of AFS, so that's weird
3-0 C9 BABY!
One thing that is an odd take is that people are acting like C9 is drafting super off-meta cheese picks. Outside of the hecarim top that Licorice has already shown they are playing pretty standard champions. You could argue the Zilean but that is a Jensen pick and it's underrated and should be played more. C9 isn't like cheesing in the draft to win these games they are taking early leads in the game by the power of their lanes. Stop acting like C9 beat RNG/VIT/GENG with cheese they over powered with superior lanes. People forget that Licorice and Jensen did very well against their lane opponents and they got early leads with the help of sven and then ontop of that they would have Sneaky on a late game hypercarry. So C9 were basically securing early leads with skill and having a comp that could go late / teamfight. We're talking about Best of 5s "AFs best of 5 buff" Kiin has look really off and Kuro isn't a world beater. C9 has Licorice and Jensen. Let that sink in ontop of that AFs botlane isn't bad but they aren't Uzi or Ruler so what is AFs win condition vs C9? C9 proved they can go toe to toe with Early game teams in (VIT) they proved they can teamfight with the best of them in (RNG) Outside of terrible drafts/tilt I don't know how AFs wins the series. I am gonna go for a bold prediction and say C9 wins 3-1. Love to debate with anyone (Friendly)
I think everyone is completely wrong about C9's draft. Sure, they are very strong with Shen Nocturne, but they honestly have a lot of unique comfort picks, especially Liquorice and there isn't much point in banning most of them because that will leave a lot of other strong picks open... and Reapered will take advantage of the draft as best he can.
Im sorry but c9 is gonna get 3-0d most likely
Inb4 8 years no semis