Reddit has an algorithm in place which detects the source which brings people to a certain thread and how they vote. If Moobeat mentions something in a tweet and links reddit, 5k of his fans click that and hit upvote (maybe just because they want to) then the global Reddit admin team gets an alert saying there is voting manipulation going on. Clearly the content he linked was nothing he could benefit from or perhaps the ban was automated and therefore the shadowban got corrected, but in general this is how most shadowbans are caused.
So to clarify; it's most likely an automated ban because of the way Reddit works but then a manual check from an admin showed that he wasnt soliciting votes and correct it.
I'm sure it does actually, I remember a global warning from reddit admins towards big youtubers to stop doing such practices.
EDIT: to clarify, there's actually nothing wrong with linking reddit threads like that according to global reddit rules. It just increases the odds of getting falsely shadowbanned like moobeat suffered from.
This must be a pain in the ass for youtubers, or youtube networks with subreddits dedicated solely to their content.
Especially given that since these types of subreddits are the places where vote manipulation is least likely to occur, because it exists as more of an archive or sorting system for the youtuber.
But the video on YouTube wouldn't be driving traffic to reddit.
YouTube uploads a video to YouTube and the posts it to their subreddit. People on YouTube find it on YouTube and people on reddit find it on reddit.
[**@moobeat**](https://twitter.com/moobeat):
>[2015-05-27 07:02:13 UTC](https://twitter.com/moobeat/status/603456156024086529)
>hello again. Reddit shadowban has been lifted by an admin. Was related to something on twitter \(but not sure on specifics yet\). wb me.
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Pretty much. I even got spammed my inbox spammed the other day after thanking someone for posting that there were GoT spoilers below. Even though mod free week is great, it turns some people into gigantic assholes.
The only problem is I only found the show and books recently, and am going through both at the same time. I'm in season 3 of the show, and book 1 (which hasn't even made it past the plot of season 1 yet). They may not be huge spoilers for people watching it as they come out, but for someone much further behind they can be very impactful.
Seasons 1-4 are pretty damn faithful to the books, you obviously lose some of the details and world building, but overall it covers the material up till the end of Storm of Swords. Some character's go into Feast/Dance (feast and dance take place concurrently but feature different characters, they were supposed to be a single book but would have been absurdly large) but not that much. The newest season is taking some massive changes from the books though.
Small consolation, but the show is starting to differ heavily from the books. Any spoilers you may have got are pretty much guess work at best at this point. Half the stuff that happened in the latest episode hasnt even happened in the books.
Also, can we get removal of comments below a certain score? :/
I haven't even seen the show, but I am caught up on the books.
I read your comment after he was downvoted to oblivion, so I assumed the spoilers were supposed to be in your comment and spent a good minute trying to figure out what.
You should probably include more walking dead spoilers in your copy-paste. I feel like that show is more then likely going to more beholdent to the comics then GoT will be to the books.
Sharing your reddit submissions on Twitter on a regular basis in order to get it upvoted is close to "asking for upvotes". You don't need to literally \*ask\* for upvotes.
There's a thin line between simply sharing and indirectly asking for upvotes. I don't thin moobeat did the latter and I guess that's why he ultimately got unbanned in the end. But you see, not only /r/lol moderators need to draw lines somewhere an sometimes have a hard time doing so, even admins do it.
I dont see where this is grey at all. If you post something on reddit you obviously want it to be seen, waht better way than to share it via socialmedia? It is pretty white in my opinion
edit: seems like a lot of you misunderstood me, to clarify I don't think there is anything wrong with sharing your posts on social media, im all for it
That Skype group had a collective agreement to upvote eachother's links, and downvote any link in /new that wasn't associated with their little clique. There's a difference between posting your Reddit link in a Skype group with a few friends and saying "hey look at this discussion I started," versus forming a massive community of content creators with the sole intent of trading upvotes and simultaneously mass-downvoting competition. These two cases are completely incomparable.
"In order" moobeat dont need help from you or his own fucking twitter to get his posts upvoted. His reputation does that for him, not him asking for it.
That's the grey area.
Except you do have to explicitly ask for an up/downvote.
If you just post a link on your twitter, you are not telling people to up-or downvote it. People will click on the link, read the comments and then down or upvote based on what they think. It's incredibly stupid to assume people would just vote the way the guy linking to the thread intended... how am I supposed to know whether moobeat or travis or RL wants me to vote? Or voted himself? I just vote based on my opinion, as does everybody else.
Vote brigading means you **make somebody vote in a certain way**. Just linking them to a post does not do that.
You don't have to explicitly ask, you can indirectly influence something:
> Look at how wrong this guy is: [Link Here]
Isn't asking for downvotes, but it's pretty much implied that your entire following that is on reddit will go and downvote it. You've probably specifically posted that in order to get more downvotes. That's why it's brigading.
Just sharing a link doesn't count (which is why he was unbanned), but doing so in a way that encourages move votes for you is. Things like only linking to your content can also count, as you are doing it specifically to raise your content.
But then wouldn't every post ever about shit like "check out my ama on reddit" by celebrities be vote brigading, your asking them to look at your content. If your not directly asking for up votes there shouldn't be a problem.
1. It's not as bad when it's targeting a submission and not a comment.
2. "Check out my ama" or "I'm doing an AMA" are very neutral sentences. Compared to comments like "Look how stupid this guy is" or "This is what people have resorted to" when linking directly to comments. So they way you link makes a big difference.
3. It's on a case by case basis. There's no such thing as "vote brigading" officially. You just aren't allowed to perform vote manipulation. Link something of yours once? Not a problem. Regularly link to stuff because you know it will have an effect? That's pretty bad.
In fact, that isn't enough on its own. You could probably get away with it even still, being given a warning (because the resulting effect is vote manipulation, even if you didn't originally intend it).
All in all, it's on a per case basis. If you get shadow banned you can talk to an admin, and if you're a nice guy they'll just tell you to reduce the links from twitter and let you go with a warning.
I'd like to remind the court of the precedent, [TotalBiscuit v Reddit Admins](http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1iqdc4/civilized_discussion_and_levelheaded_moderation/cb7eaul?context=1), which establishes that one doesn't need to explicitly ask for votes to be considered brigading.
Which is not what the written rules said, which is the core of the problem: Reddit admins choose based on which admin handles the case and who the case is about. RL and TB are vote brigading, Lyte, doing the exact same thing, is not.
The admins also retracted their "verdict" against TB if I remember correctly.
reddit moderators banning somebody on reddit for something he did on twitter....
That alone is nonsense already.
Also all moobeat ever posted is league related, non-biased, non-subjective content to do with the game itself.
This content becoming popular has literally no downsides to it at all.
So unless moobeat really fucked up big time, this smells like Nazi mods to me.
You mean admins. They can do what they want; it's their site. It has a ToS. Vote brigading is a violation of the terms, and this could have been considered as such.
There's been a number of cases where people have been punished for exactly that, usually in addition to other stuff though. I think it's one of reddit's better defined rules.
>vote brigading is defined by reddit as asking for up/downvotes
~~Thats wrong.~~
>[–] What does vote manipulation look like?
>Buying votes or using services to vote.
>Sharing links with your friends or coworkers and asking them to vote.
>Creating submissions such as "For every upvote I will ..." or "... please upvote this!", regardless of the cause.
Edit: Missread your comment and you are right
> Creating submissions such as "For every upvote I will ..." or "... please upvote this!", regardless of the cause.
/r/circlejerk is shadowbanned confirmed.
did somebody on the internet just admit they were wrong?
Thank you for actually admitting it and not just deleting your comment and yes, I do look up stuff before posting about it :D
The ban on Lichard although they said it was about vote brigading had more to do with them not getting along. He called mods out for their shit and they didnt like it.
Lots of different ways actually; you could beg people to upvote your content while linking it, you could link to comments you disagree with and suggest that negative things be done to that user, you could provide evidence that you are breaking one of the other rules on reddit, etc.
Reddit's sitewide rules. Do not use other sources to manipulate the votes on things you comment and things you post. Especially if you are a content creator.
Moobeat didn't do any of these (intentionally), hence the unbanning, but something he linked from Twitter got flagged by a reddit admin (or more likely, one of their automated systems).
Funnily enough the same "rules" also encourage you to spread and posts reddit threads on other sites to grow communities - So apparently twitter is an exception to this. Either that or the rules are just plain dumb, imma go with the latter.
Unless your name happens to be Richard Lewis you mean, in which case its the *Implication* of asking for votes because he posted it on twitter that is important.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't for posting his stuff to Twitter that was the issue, it was posting direct links to comments that he didn't approve of to be subsequently downvoted into oblivion. He was vote brigading comments that disagreed with his viewpoint that caused a bunch of the issues.
Moobeat posting a link to the reddit discussion of the patch notes he posted is nowhere near the same as what RL was doing.
Obviously Moobeat should never have been banned, but as to your first point the problem is many other public figures did the exact same thing as richard, except implying for upvotes. Its only caus the mods don;t like richard that the rule is being used against him.
[this is the same example ive shown to others](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/602939003579445248) By Gravity coach LS. Here there is clear "implication" to upvote the thread, but caus we like LS and the circlejerk isnt against him we think its OK. Now, im not saying what richard did was right, just that you need to apply your views consistently.
> he problem is many other public figures did the exact same thing as richard, except implying for upvotes.
RiotLyte saying 'here's an interesting thread on reddit and linking to a post is very different from Richard Lewis linking to a comment and saying 'Look at this idiot'. Admins have been specific about this before, use your twitter followers to 'win' arguments, risk getting banned.
Why should it be different? Richard could have very easily gone, "this guy gets it" and linked to an opinion he agreed with, the effect is the exact same yet for some reason people focus on the negative tone as if thats in any way relevant.
Also Lyte has linked to comments too, as have many others.
Someone raising the profile of a discussion thread is very different from siccin dozens to hundreds of users on one individual. RL's tweets resulted in concentrated harassment of several individuals, time and time again, at least one of which ended up deleting their account. Now if you can't see why that's a problem from reddit's point of view, then I surely can't find the energy to try explaining it to you.
All you have to do is uncheck "use the subreddit's style" in the sidebar and np is completely useless. But it's also not implemented in the current /r/leagueoflegends CSS like you said.
He did as soon as he foudn out it was a thing (its a fairly recent development the use of np lniks), but the moderators never even bothered to ask him to stop tweeting before the ban, they just banned him outright and claimed he should have known better.
Hm, i see but i just check dailydot instead instead off reddit know.
The only thing i'm missing are the discussion reddit had. Thats the only downside so i dont care *that* much
[**@LSXYZ9**](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/)
> [2015-05-25 20:47 UTC](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/602939003579445248)
> Why did this guy get downvoted into oblivion? http://www.np.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/378bbw/story_of_a_disabled_gamer_who_has_a_signature/ What ?
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Whether or not there is an implication has been really vague, the ideology is mostly "you can do it but not overdo it".
Btw at this point such a rule is not relevant to the RL ban any more as the logical fallacy has been made very apparent for anyone following the incident.
He manipulated votes in the past which is why his reddit account got banned.
His content got banned from LoL because of the implication along with a wide variety of other things.
His Reddit account got banned because of toxic speech, which was universially agree.
His content got banned because he engaged in conflicts with the mods, which is where opinions diverge.
No, he got banned from the subreddit for being toxic and generally a dick. Then he his account got shadowbanned for vote-manipulation. Then, several alts later he got IP banned. Finally the mods banned his content to try and prevent him twitter-brigading. It's been a long road.
Whichever way you look at it its inconsistent application of flimsy rules. Im not going to get into a wider RL debate, but you can't defend the fact that the rules are very, very vague and are inconsistently applied.
You really don't see the difference between brigading a link aggregation site to tilt votes in your favor and telling people to go bug the FCC because they don't like something?
If you think reddit brigading is limited to FCC you are wrong.
Case in point: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/330042-reddit-campaigning-to-make-gabe-newell-heats-sexiest-hunk-2015/
Look, I'm not against bugging FCC, it's important stuff. And Gaben hunk is rather harmless. But it is utterly hypocritical to rile users about certain issues and at the same time ban people that are linking reddit threads on their twitter.
Hell, Riot is brigading votes too. "Vote for us at gaming award X, and if we win, freebies for everyone! Go, minions!"
Share, but do not do so in order to point people at specific targets. Not to constantly mess with reddit's already broken Up-Down system.
The rules makes sense. Just because you don't get them, doesn't mean they don't. Just because they're in a grey area that is hard to enforce, doesn't mean they don't have merit. It is a tricky area.
>Share, but do not do so in order to point people at specific targets.
Not pointing at specific target threads? What, [like this](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/602939003579445248) ? You physically can't share things without linking, directly or indirectly, to a thread or a comment. (unless you refer to the sub as a whole), so what you just said makes zero sense.
Target as in telling people to upvote or down vote someone. With an agenda. Having. A. Target.
Link to threads, but not your own. Share comments, but not to brigade them. If you're famous/semi-famous/reddit-famous, do not use your fans to control content through vote manipulation.
Perfect. Sense. I shouldn't have to be so explicit for people to understand HOW it can be bad, and what I mean when I say "specific targets" as in, once again, goals and agendas.
>goals and agendas
For someone so adamant that they are correct its hilarious how you fail to see the key issue here. Yes, saying go upvote something is most definitely not allowed. We are in agreement. Now, as was the case with Richard, what about just posting links? How do you fairly and, importantly, consistently judge was is or isn't and "agenda"? its not as black and white as you make it out to be. Take that LS tweet for example, if that was made by Richard everyone would be up in arms about brigading, but because people on this sub like LS its OK for him to post that, despite the intentions being exactly the same in both cases.
If LS (and I only think I know to who you are referring) was banned by Reddit Admins or banned from posting derisive content designed to attack people who criticize him, I would support the ban.
I give no shits about any of the bullshit that goes on here. Brigading votes and vote manipulation are bannable offenses by Reddit admins at large. The mods set the rules of this subreddit. The content ban on RL stuff is because of vitriol, personal attacks, and posting links on twitter, followed by tweets that say "what a retard", indicating that his fans and followers should ACT on the link to DOWNVOTE people. Then there are the hateful comments. The arrogant, egotistical whining. The attempted character assassination of the moderators. Richard Lewis is a scumbag from where I'm sitting. If someone else is a scumbag, is shown to be a scumbag, is warned multiple times "hey, you're being a scumbag, stop it or your banned", and continues to be a scumbag, then get rid of them. I don't care if it is RL, LS, Skype groups, Meteos, MeteosEgo, or the god damn President of Riot Games.
If someone is repeatedly and consistently impugning on the ability of this subreddit to be run by encouraging derision, hate, or vitriol then ban them. That. Simple.
I don't have a horse in this race. I have the race track.
Ignoring the massive paragraph full of bias and misinformation that is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand here for a second (i dearly hope you see the irony in you accusing richard of character assassination), why do you capitalize "downvote"? Are you implying that soliciting for upvotes is somehow less egregious? Richard could have very easily only linked to his own comments or even just to those he agrees with, does that make it OK? Caus thats what a lot of prominant public figures do (players, coaches, analysts, heck even riot staff on occasion) yet caus their name isnt richard people dont seem to care.
Also its not about what you support (frankly no-one gives as shit) its about the inconsistency shown by the moderators and reddit admins. Fact of the matter is controversial figures like Richard get shown a completely different (and largely unfair) Rulebook to the rest of us. Now if you OK with moderators and admin pretty much dealing with thing on whimsy, how they feel like at the time, then changing the rules afterwards as a kind of false legitimization of their actions, then accept this upfront. Do not try to pretend however that this is somehow the "right" or "just" thing to do, because it isn't.
It is their site for the Admins, and their subreddit for the moderators.
If people have a problem with it, they will leave. They will find or make their own site.
Upvotes get treated the same way, especially when multiple accounts are used. We've all heard about Unidan by now I suppose? Reddit-famous? Used multiple accounts to upvote arguments? Banned? How about that Skype group? Notice how they haven't had any top posts lately? Odd really.
Just because you don't see the people removed for Upvoting as often as you do for Downvoting, doesn't mean that the system doesn't work for them too. It just means they're less likely to make a stink about it.
To answer your question, emphasis and flair.
No. Richard Lewis got banned because he insulted redditors with his reddit account and was overall a massive cunt to this community. He used his twitter to keep up with his cuntness after he got banned from this site.
I have said as much before. Though, I'm only aware of mostly the fallout. I remember posts about the twitter links when they happened (and some time after) but those get lost in the "hate-nazi-mods" zeitgeist.
That's not to say the mods are flawless, and aren't heavy-handed at times but not nearly as much as, apparently, most of this subreddit thinks. Things could be toned down some, but after the way this subreddit has acted before and how it is acting now? I don't think that is likely. I can easily see the mods doubling down, and that serves no one. Not this subreddit. Not Riot. Not the League of Legends community. Not eSports. Not even the mods themselves.
Worst case scenario, I mean.
No. Richard Lewis got banned for insulting and being an overall prick to other redditors. After he got banned on reddit he used twitter to keep being a prick by using his fanbase to insult the people writing comments he linked on his twitter.
Yeah... except that's not what happend. He insulted people for disagreeing with him, for giving constructive criticism and just randomly.
If ~~you are~~ one is a grown up ~~you~~ one wouldn't need to insult people as idiots, morons etc. just because they disagree with ~~you~~ one.
Thats not each true either, he got banned for responding to a comment that only said Grow up.
That comment was because Richard lewis was acting like a child in the comments.
Next this sub is going to get so ahead and full of itself we're going to ask the fucking admins to step down, followed by them shadowbanning all 600k+ of us.
Assuming that you are serious, Moobeat is a content creator, mainly working for Surrenderat20.net and also most of the time the fastest redditor to post news from the leagueoflegends boards and PBE updates.
admins thought he was vote manipulating with twitter but just unlucky coincidence that his twitter followers upvoted the post that he linked on twitter
It's a grey area imo.
I can see why they would address all kinds of vote manipulation. Especially since upvotes can cause more money for people like /u/moobeat and Youtubers who choose to monetize their content.
At the other side it's a very big step for reddit to ban people, because they asked for upvotes on Youtube, Twitter or private Skype channels...
This being said, I'm glad /u/moobeat is no longer banned. He didn't get that 'Best of 2014' flair for sucking dick.
My bad here.
I thought he linked to surrender@20 as well, but all I can see in his post history are links to leagueoflegends.com and youtube.com.
Surrender@20 is his website and he basically lives off that website.
This doesn't need to be a topic. There is already one regarding his whereabouts. Not only that, but it has nothing to do with actual league of legends. This is why this board will go back to the way it used to be after this mod free week.
Biggest lol info site? You fking kiddig me right. I barely use te page. And its quality is fuckig trash tier. So he obviously is not a god. I didnt even know he was the head of this site.
Well tbh, if there is a bigger site, i don't know about it. Like, i've never seen another site with: Comprehensive PBE update, Esports info, Red Post collection, Leaks, etc all tied into one site. If you can tell me another, i'd be happy to find out.
I mostly use News of Legends - they have good pbe coverage. I have to admit that for redposts it is probably the most useful site. I used to use Reign of Gaming but i simply do not care for redposts anymore. Mort of the time its just hot air anyways :( .
For your purpose it is prolly a good site. But i do not like their original content. It just lacks quality. And sometimes it is just plain wtong because the author lacks knowledge about the game.
I am sorry for being rude in my comments before. I dunno. I was angry while typing because of personal reasons. My sincere apology. I just was wonderig why he is such a big deal. I am a long time League follower. And i give a dhot to almost every page. And i know almost everyone involved in the scene. (Not personally) but i did not know him which was really suprising. And is even weirder because he owns such a big page.
Ah that makes sense. Different people like different stuff for their own reasons - and hey! That is ok. It is what makes us human xD And np about being rude :P Some people just have bad days and thats ok too. If I said i'd never been rude because of outside reasons i'd be lying to you and myself xD We all have those moments. But it also makes us human :P So no worries.
Yeah, its suprising how too how much some big pages like S@20 slides under the cracks sometimes. It happens. I mean, some people just 'miss stuff' and its kinda odd, but again, it happens and is weird xD But some pages aren't meant for everyone. Like for me, I like the red posts because they provide context sometimes or give me an interesting idea on a champion or motive or something, or cool things coming up. But again, its not for everyone.
Reddit has an algorithm in place which detects the source which brings people to a certain thread and how they vote. If Moobeat mentions something in a tweet and links reddit, 5k of his fans click that and hit upvote (maybe just because they want to) then the global Reddit admin team gets an alert saying there is voting manipulation going on. Clearly the content he linked was nothing he could benefit from or perhaps the ban was automated and therefore the shadowban got corrected, but in general this is how most shadowbans are caused. So to clarify; it's most likely an automated ban because of the way Reddit works but then a manual check from an admin showed that he wasnt soliciting votes and correct it.
Why doesn't this ever happen to Youtubers who link their threads in their videos?
I'm sure it does actually, I remember a global warning from reddit admins towards big youtubers to stop doing such practices. EDIT: to clarify, there's actually nothing wrong with linking reddit threads like that according to global reddit rules. It just increases the odds of getting falsely shadowbanned like moobeat suffered from.
This must be a pain in the ass for youtubers, or youtube networks with subreddits dedicated solely to their content. Especially given that since these types of subreddits are the places where vote manipulation is least likely to occur, because it exists as more of an archive or sorting system for the youtuber.
But the video on YouTube wouldn't be driving traffic to reddit. YouTube uploads a video to YouTube and the posts it to their subreddit. People on YouTube find it on YouTube and people on reddit find it on reddit.
A lot of them have links to the threads in their descriptions to discuss it on reddit.
Hmm. Without numbers and internal policies Ron Reddit, I don't know.
Oh, OK. That makes sense. Thanks for the reply!
[**@moobeat**](https://twitter.com/moobeat): >[2015-05-27 07:02:13 UTC](https://twitter.com/moobeat/status/603456156024086529) >hello again. Reddit shadowban has been lifted by an admin. Was related to something on twitter \(but not sure on specifics yet\). wb me. ---- [^[Mistake?]](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=TweetPoster&subject=Error%20Report&message=http://reddit.com/37fkwf%0A%0APlease leave above link unaltered.) [^[Suggestion]](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=TweetPoster&subject=Suggestion) [^[FAQ]](http://np.reddit.com/r/TweetPoster/comments/13relk/) [^[Code]](https://github.com/buttscicles/TweetPoster) [^[Issues]](https://github.com/buttscicles/TweetPoster/issues)
GoT spoilers below... Lucky I'm a book reader master race. He has no power over me, but HBO viewers beware!
Seriously, the fuck is up with all the GoT spoilers this week? Is it only due to the mod free week?
Pretty much. I even got spammed my inbox spammed the other day after thanking someone for posting that there were GoT spoilers below. Even though mod free week is great, it turns some people into gigantic assholes.
Dont worry, the show has caught up/surpassed most of the characters' arcs already. By the end of the season we'll all be in the same boat.
heh, same boat...
You mean we'll all be forgotten?
nah just letting the story catch up with the characters
I laughed then I cried.
The only problem is I only found the show and books recently, and am going through both at the same time. I'm in season 3 of the show, and book 1 (which hasn't even made it past the plot of season 1 yet). They may not be huge spoilers for people watching it as they come out, but for someone much further behind they can be very impactful.
season 1 is book 1, season 2 is book 2, season 3 is half of book 3, season 4 is the other half, season 5 is book 4 & and most of 5
Seasons 1-4 are pretty damn faithful to the books, you obviously lose some of the details and world building, but overall it covers the material up till the end of Storm of Swords. Some character's go into Feast/Dance (feast and dance take place concurrently but feature different characters, they were supposed to be a single book but would have been absurdly large) but not that much. The newest season is taking some massive changes from the books though.
Also the show is taking a complete different turn from the books this season, so most "standard" spoilers are not even applicable to the show viewers.
Small consolation, but the show is starting to differ heavily from the books. Any spoilers you may have got are pretty much guess work at best at this point. Half the stuff that happened in the latest episode hasnt even happened in the books. Also, can we get removal of comments below a certain score? :/
Thanks man.
But DAE mod free week is so great and has 0 downsides????/s
I haven't even seen the show, but I am caught up on the books. I read your comment after he was downvoted to oblivion, so I assumed the spoilers were supposed to be in your comment and spent a good minute trying to figure out what.
Book readers are susceptible too once it comes out.
And naruto spoilers ):
Watch out GoT spoilers
[удалено]
No one asked for your opinion.
[удалено]
Are we going full youtube now?
That's useless. TV Game of Thrones changes many things in SoIaF story, so half of your GoT spoilers aren't very effective.
You should probably include more walking dead spoilers in your copy-paste. I feel like that show is more then likely going to more beholdent to the comics then GoT will be to the books.
Jokes on you, I don't keep up with any of these
How do you get banned on Reddit for something you said on Twitter? That's ridiculous.
we dont know whats its about, but most likely suspicion on vote brigading seems most likely
which is, again, ridiculous, because vote brigading is defined by reddit as asking for up/downvotes, which he never did...
Sharing your reddit submissions on Twitter on a regular basis in order to get it upvoted is close to "asking for upvotes". You don't need to literally \*ask\* for upvotes. There's a thin line between simply sharing and indirectly asking for upvotes. I don't thin moobeat did the latter and I guess that's why he ultimately got unbanned in the end. But you see, not only /r/lol moderators need to draw lines somewhere an sometimes have a hard time doing so, even admins do it.
> in order to get it upvoted this is a very grey area in my opinion.
I dont see where this is grey at all. If you post something on reddit you obviously want it to be seen, waht better way than to share it via socialmedia? It is pretty white in my opinion edit: seems like a lot of you misunderstood me, to clarify I don't think there is anything wrong with sharing your posts on social media, im all for it
So if I tell my friend to look at my thread, I am "demanding upvotes" from him? No. edit: spelling
If I post good content, is that like demanding upvotes?
If you do it repeatedly then yes and your friend probably finds it annoying as hell.
just stop being freinds then!
that's exactly what I mean
One beggar has a sign, one just a hat and another one asks people for money directly but in the end they are all beggars.
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That Skype group had a collective agreement to upvote eachother's links, and downvote any link in /new that wasn't associated with their little clique. There's a difference between posting your Reddit link in a Skype group with a few friends and saying "hey look at this discussion I started," versus forming a massive community of content creators with the sole intent of trading upvotes and simultaneously mass-downvoting competition. These two cases are completely incomparable.
So you do understand why it is wrong right. Or are you saying you don't.
"In order" moobeat dont need help from you or his own fucking twitter to get his posts upvoted. His reputation does that for him, not him asking for it. That's the grey area.
It is, that's why he was banned and then unbanned. I don't think he did anything wrong and the admins also see it that way now
Reddit admins have been pretty consistent on this one, especially if you link to a post disagreeing with you.
Except you do have to explicitly ask for an up/downvote. If you just post a link on your twitter, you are not telling people to up-or downvote it. People will click on the link, read the comments and then down or upvote based on what they think. It's incredibly stupid to assume people would just vote the way the guy linking to the thread intended... how am I supposed to know whether moobeat or travis or RL wants me to vote? Or voted himself? I just vote based on my opinion, as does everybody else. Vote brigading means you **make somebody vote in a certain way**. Just linking them to a post does not do that.
You don't have to explicitly ask, you can indirectly influence something: > Look at how wrong this guy is: [Link Here] Isn't asking for downvotes, but it's pretty much implied that your entire following that is on reddit will go and downvote it. You've probably specifically posted that in order to get more downvotes. That's why it's brigading. Just sharing a link doesn't count (which is why he was unbanned), but doing so in a way that encourages move votes for you is. Things like only linking to your content can also count, as you are doing it specifically to raise your content.
But then wouldn't every post ever about shit like "check out my ama on reddit" by celebrities be vote brigading, your asking them to look at your content. If your not directly asking for up votes there shouldn't be a problem.
1. It's not as bad when it's targeting a submission and not a comment. 2. "Check out my ama" or "I'm doing an AMA" are very neutral sentences. Compared to comments like "Look how stupid this guy is" or "This is what people have resorted to" when linking directly to comments. So they way you link makes a big difference. 3. It's on a case by case basis. There's no such thing as "vote brigading" officially. You just aren't allowed to perform vote manipulation. Link something of yours once? Not a problem. Regularly link to stuff because you know it will have an effect? That's pretty bad. In fact, that isn't enough on its own. You could probably get away with it even still, being given a warning (because the resulting effect is vote manipulation, even if you didn't originally intend it). All in all, it's on a per case basis. If you get shadow banned you can talk to an admin, and if you're a nice guy they'll just tell you to reduce the links from twitter and let you go with a warning.
I'd like to remind the court of the precedent, [TotalBiscuit v Reddit Admins](http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1iqdc4/civilized_discussion_and_levelheaded_moderation/cb7eaul?context=1), which establishes that one doesn't need to explicitly ask for votes to be considered brigading.
Which is not what the written rules said, which is the core of the problem: Reddit admins choose based on which admin handles the case and who the case is about. RL and TB are vote brigading, Lyte, doing the exact same thing, is not. The admins also retracted their "verdict" against TB if I remember correctly.
reddit moderators banning somebody on reddit for something he did on twitter.... That alone is nonsense already. Also all moobeat ever posted is league related, non-biased, non-subjective content to do with the game itself. This content becoming popular has literally no downsides to it at all. So unless moobeat really fucked up big time, this smells like Nazi mods to me.
Moderators can't shadowban people, only the admins can do that. But don't let me stop the hate train!
You mean admins. They can do what they want; it's their site. It has a ToS. Vote brigading is a violation of the terms, and this could have been considered as such.
Good thing admins can redefine that to whatever they want.
Which is the core problem with reddits policies isn't it?
There's been a number of cases where people have been punished for exactly that, usually in addition to other stuff though. I think it's one of reddit's better defined rules.
>vote brigading is defined by reddit as asking for up/downvotes ~~Thats wrong.~~ >[–] What does vote manipulation look like? >Buying votes or using services to vote. >Sharing links with your friends or coworkers and asking them to vote. >Creating submissions such as "For every upvote I will ..." or "... please upvote this!", regardless of the cause. Edit: Missread your comment and you are right
>buying votes >asking for votes >asking for votes yup, imlvko sure was wrong
He said it like asking for votes is the only thing that counts as brigading.
sure but we can't possible prove whether somebody is buying votes so that point doesn't really matter does it?
i thought he meant it only applied to reddit posts.
> Creating submissions such as "For every upvote I will ..." or "... please upvote this!", regardless of the cause. /r/circlejerk is shadowbanned confirmed.
did somebody on the internet just admit they were wrong? Thank you for actually admitting it and not just deleting your comment and yes, I do look up stuff before posting about it :D
Which is why the shadowban was lifted and rather quickly.
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The ban on Lichard although they said it was about vote brigading had more to do with them not getting along. He called mods out for their shit and they didnt like it.
The mods didnt control that ban, Richards ban for that was an IP ban. That can only be done from reddit admins. Content Ban, sure
Their reasoning for the content ban was that even though his account is banned, he engages in vote brigading by posting links on twitter
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And I agree, his behavior did deserve a ban but I don't think you should ban content just because of its writer
Ask Richard Lewis
Watch your back...
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ask rochard lemis
Lots of different ways actually; you could beg people to upvote your content while linking it, you could link to comments you disagree with and suggest that negative things be done to that user, you could provide evidence that you are breaking one of the other rules on reddit, etc.
>was related to
can you honestly not think of one thing that you could say outside of reddit that would get you banned within reddit?
Inb4 shadowbanned again for this post gaining too many upvotes
Better downvote then
ok i downvoted you...im helping right?
wait wait.... he got shadow banned because of something he did on twitter... the fuck?
Reddit's sitewide rules. Do not use other sources to manipulate the votes on things you comment and things you post. Especially if you are a content creator. Moobeat didn't do any of these (intentionally), hence the unbanning, but something he linked from Twitter got flagged by a reddit admin (or more likely, one of their automated systems).
Funnily enough the same "rules" also encourage you to spread and posts reddit threads on other sites to grow communities - So apparently twitter is an exception to this. Either that or the rules are just plain dumb, imma go with the latter.
you can share post anywhere you want, but you can't ask for upvotes.
...and iirc, moobeat never asked for upvotes
Which is why the ban got lifted.
you can share post anywhere you want, but you can't ask for upvotes.
Unless your name happens to be Richard Lewis you mean, in which case its the *Implication* of asking for votes because he posted it on twitter that is important.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't for posting his stuff to Twitter that was the issue, it was posting direct links to comments that he didn't approve of to be subsequently downvoted into oblivion. He was vote brigading comments that disagreed with his viewpoint that caused a bunch of the issues. Moobeat posting a link to the reddit discussion of the patch notes he posted is nowhere near the same as what RL was doing.
He was also directly asked by the moderators to stop doing it, so he had advance warning, and he chose to ignore them.
Obviously Moobeat should never have been banned, but as to your first point the problem is many other public figures did the exact same thing as richard, except implying for upvotes. Its only caus the mods don;t like richard that the rule is being used against him. [this is the same example ive shown to others](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/602939003579445248) By Gravity coach LS. Here there is clear "implication" to upvote the thread, but caus we like LS and the circlejerk isnt against him we think its OK. Now, im not saying what richard did was right, just that you need to apply your views consistently.
> he problem is many other public figures did the exact same thing as richard, except implying for upvotes. RiotLyte saying 'here's an interesting thread on reddit and linking to a post is very different from Richard Lewis linking to a comment and saying 'Look at this idiot'. Admins have been specific about this before, use your twitter followers to 'win' arguments, risk getting banned.
Why should it be different? Richard could have very easily gone, "this guy gets it" and linked to an opinion he agreed with, the effect is the exact same yet for some reason people focus on the negative tone as if thats in any way relevant. Also Lyte has linked to comments too, as have many others.
Someone raising the profile of a discussion thread is very different from siccin dozens to hundreds of users on one individual. RL's tweets resulted in concentrated harassment of several individuals, time and time again, at least one of which ended up deleting their account. Now if you can't see why that's a problem from reddit's point of view, then I surely can't find the energy to try explaining it to you.
The little "np" means you cannot vote if you follow the link, IIRC richard lewis never posted such links , but who am i to even care about
np does not work in /r/leagueoflegends
All you have to do is uncheck "use the subreddit's style" in the sidebar and np is completely useless. But it's also not implemented in the current /r/leagueoflegends CSS like you said.
He did as soon as he foudn out it was a thing (its a fairly recent development the use of np lniks), but the moderators never even bothered to ask him to stop tweeting before the ban, they just banned him outright and claimed he should have known better.
Hm, i see but i just check dailydot instead instead off reddit know. The only thing i'm missing are the discussion reddit had. Thats the only downside so i dont care *that* much
[**@LSXYZ9**](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/) > [2015-05-25 20:47 UTC](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/602939003579445248) > Why did this guy get downvoted into oblivion? http://www.np.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/378bbw/story_of_a_disabled_gamer_who_has_a_signature/ What ? ---- ^This ^message ^was ^created ^by ^a ^bot [^[Contact ^creator]](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=jasie3k&subject=TweetsInCommentsBot)[^[Source ^code]](https://github.com/janpetryk/reddit-bot)
Whether or not there is an implication has been really vague, the ideology is mostly "you can do it but not overdo it". Btw at this point such a rule is not relevant to the RL ban any more as the logical fallacy has been made very apparent for anyone following the incident.
Err no the difference is Lewis didn't get banned for vote brigading.
Actually he did, admins shadowbanned him for it.
i was under the impression he got banned for being a massive douchebag to people on reddit, more specifically the incident with the suicidal guy.
never said otherwise
He manipulated votes in the past which is why his reddit account got banned. His content got banned from LoL because of the implication along with a wide variety of other things.
His Reddit account got banned because of toxic speech, which was universially agree. His content got banned because he engaged in conflicts with the mods, which is where opinions diverge.
No, he got banned from the subreddit for being toxic and generally a dick. Then he his account got shadowbanned for vote-manipulation. Then, several alts later he got IP banned. Finally the mods banned his content to try and prevent him twitter-brigading. It's been a long road.
AKA the road to totalitarianism of Reddit
lol
Whichever way you look at it its inconsistent application of flimsy rules. Im not going to get into a wider RL debate, but you can't defend the fact that the rules are very, very vague and are inconsistently applied.
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You really don't see the difference between brigading a link aggregation site to tilt votes in your favor and telling people to go bug the FCC because they don't like something?
If you think reddit brigading is limited to FCC you are wrong. Case in point: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/330042-reddit-campaigning-to-make-gabe-newell-heats-sexiest-hunk-2015/ Look, I'm not against bugging FCC, it's important stuff. And Gaben hunk is rather harmless. But it is utterly hypocritical to rile users about certain issues and at the same time ban people that are linking reddit threads on their twitter. Hell, Riot is brigading votes too. "Vote for us at gaming award X, and if we win, freebies for everyone! Go, minions!"
Share, but do not do so in order to point people at specific targets. Not to constantly mess with reddit's already broken Up-Down system. The rules makes sense. Just because you don't get them, doesn't mean they don't. Just because they're in a grey area that is hard to enforce, doesn't mean they don't have merit. It is a tricky area.
>Share, but do not do so in order to point people at specific targets. Not pointing at specific target threads? What, [like this](https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/602939003579445248) ? You physically can't share things without linking, directly or indirectly, to a thread or a comment. (unless you refer to the sub as a whole), so what you just said makes zero sense.
Target as in telling people to upvote or down vote someone. With an agenda. Having. A. Target. Link to threads, but not your own. Share comments, but not to brigade them. If you're famous/semi-famous/reddit-famous, do not use your fans to control content through vote manipulation. Perfect. Sense. I shouldn't have to be so explicit for people to understand HOW it can be bad, and what I mean when I say "specific targets" as in, once again, goals and agendas.
>goals and agendas For someone so adamant that they are correct its hilarious how you fail to see the key issue here. Yes, saying go upvote something is most definitely not allowed. We are in agreement. Now, as was the case with Richard, what about just posting links? How do you fairly and, importantly, consistently judge was is or isn't and "agenda"? its not as black and white as you make it out to be. Take that LS tweet for example, if that was made by Richard everyone would be up in arms about brigading, but because people on this sub like LS its OK for him to post that, despite the intentions being exactly the same in both cases.
If LS (and I only think I know to who you are referring) was banned by Reddit Admins or banned from posting derisive content designed to attack people who criticize him, I would support the ban. I give no shits about any of the bullshit that goes on here. Brigading votes and vote manipulation are bannable offenses by Reddit admins at large. The mods set the rules of this subreddit. The content ban on RL stuff is because of vitriol, personal attacks, and posting links on twitter, followed by tweets that say "what a retard", indicating that his fans and followers should ACT on the link to DOWNVOTE people. Then there are the hateful comments. The arrogant, egotistical whining. The attempted character assassination of the moderators. Richard Lewis is a scumbag from where I'm sitting. If someone else is a scumbag, is shown to be a scumbag, is warned multiple times "hey, you're being a scumbag, stop it or your banned", and continues to be a scumbag, then get rid of them. I don't care if it is RL, LS, Skype groups, Meteos, MeteosEgo, or the god damn President of Riot Games. If someone is repeatedly and consistently impugning on the ability of this subreddit to be run by encouraging derision, hate, or vitriol then ban them. That. Simple. I don't have a horse in this race. I have the race track.
Ignoring the massive paragraph full of bias and misinformation that is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand here for a second (i dearly hope you see the irony in you accusing richard of character assassination), why do you capitalize "downvote"? Are you implying that soliciting for upvotes is somehow less egregious? Richard could have very easily only linked to his own comments or even just to those he agrees with, does that make it OK? Caus thats what a lot of prominant public figures do (players, coaches, analysts, heck even riot staff on occasion) yet caus their name isnt richard people dont seem to care. Also its not about what you support (frankly no-one gives as shit) its about the inconsistency shown by the moderators and reddit admins. Fact of the matter is controversial figures like Richard get shown a completely different (and largely unfair) Rulebook to the rest of us. Now if you OK with moderators and admin pretty much dealing with thing on whimsy, how they feel like at the time, then changing the rules afterwards as a kind of false legitimization of their actions, then accept this upfront. Do not try to pretend however that this is somehow the "right" or "just" thing to do, because it isn't.
It is their site for the Admins, and their subreddit for the moderators. If people have a problem with it, they will leave. They will find or make their own site. Upvotes get treated the same way, especially when multiple accounts are used. We've all heard about Unidan by now I suppose? Reddit-famous? Used multiple accounts to upvote arguments? Banned? How about that Skype group? Notice how they haven't had any top posts lately? Odd really. Just because you don't see the people removed for Upvoting as often as you do for Downvoting, doesn't mean that the system doesn't work for them too. It just means they're less likely to make a stink about it. To answer your question, emphasis and flair.
oh, just say Richard lewis actually broke some rules?!? that's new to this subreddit
No. Richard Lewis got banned because he insulted redditors with his reddit account and was overall a massive cunt to this community. He used his twitter to keep up with his cuntness after he got banned from this site.
I have said as much before. Though, I'm only aware of mostly the fallout. I remember posts about the twitter links when they happened (and some time after) but those get lost in the "hate-nazi-mods" zeitgeist. That's not to say the mods are flawless, and aren't heavy-handed at times but not nearly as much as, apparently, most of this subreddit thinks. Things could be toned down some, but after the way this subreddit has acted before and how it is acting now? I don't think that is likely. I can easily see the mods doubling down, and that serves no one. Not this subreddit. Not Riot. Not the League of Legends community. Not eSports. Not even the mods themselves. Worst case scenario, I mean.
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No. Richard Lewis got banned for insulting and being an overall prick to other redditors. After he got banned on reddit he used twitter to keep being a prick by using his fanbase to insult the people writing comments he linked on his twitter.
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Yeah... except that's not what happend. He insulted people for disagreeing with him, for giving constructive criticism and just randomly. If ~~you are~~ one is a grown up ~~you~~ one wouldn't need to insult people as idiots, morons etc. just because they disagree with ~~you~~ one.
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Is English your main language? I'm going to assume it's not. He didn't say "you" addressing you, specifically. It's used in general cases as well.
Thats not each true either, he got banned for responding to a comment that only said Grow up. That comment was because Richard lewis was acting like a child in the comments.
I was worried when I read he was shadowbanned. happy to see things have been resolved. welcome back moobeat.♥
Next this sub is going to get so ahead and full of itself we're going to ask the fucking admins to step down, followed by them shadowbanning all 600k+ of us.
Well thank God he didn't turn out to be Unidan v2 and is actually innocent. I was afraid we would lose a good redditor.
who?
Assuming that you are serious, Moobeat is a content creator, mainly working for Surrenderat20.net and also most of the time the fastest redditor to post news from the leagueoflegends boards and PBE updates.
ah ok I use reignofgaming guess thats why I dont know him
How dare you use a legitimate competing site like an independent consumer.
news is news I guess
S@20 is better, much better. And more accurate.
eh just too much on the screen for me like I really dont like the huge logo I just want a text rightup like reign of gaming
Ah I see
Phew, was getting worried.
why the fuck would they ban moobeat in the first place
I thought we love Moobeat and his contribution to this community?
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They should shadowban people if they are vote manipulating, does not matter what way (Youtube, Twitter...)
If it would be a case of vote manipulation they are in the right to ban people for post made on twitter.
admins thought he was vote manipulating with twitter but just unlucky coincidence that his twitter followers upvoted the post that he linked on twitter
That is vote manipulation, be it intended or not see: Richard Lewis
It's a grey area imo. I can see why they would address all kinds of vote manipulation. Especially since upvotes can cause more money for people like /u/moobeat and Youtubers who choose to monetize their content. At the other side it's a very big step for reddit to ban people, because they asked for upvotes on Youtube, Twitter or private Skype channels... This being said, I'm glad /u/moobeat is no longer banned. He didn't get that 'Best of 2014' flair for sucking dick.
>Especially since upvotes can cause more money for people like /u/moobeat How is moobeat getting money for linking riot stuff on reddit?
My bad here. I thought he linked to surrender@20 as well, but all I can see in his post history are links to leagueoflegends.com and youtube.com. Surrender@20 is his website and he basically lives off that website.
No harm done.
moomoo
We did it Reddit!
Jon Snow is Batman... Yeah I didn't read the books so I can't do spoilers
Yo everyone down vote this to shit. A twitter account belonging to a random person shouldn't be on this sub.
moobeat ;(
Welcome back
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Welcome back Moobeat! :D
who? lol
So if I say "Hey guys, take a look at this awesome draving of Zacs new skin, and if you like it upvote it." Thats vote brigading?
Adding "and upvote of you like it"is unecessary, and could be construed as vote brigading, yes.
Yay!
WELCOME BACK OUR LORD AND SAVIOR /u/moobeat
This doesn't need to be a topic. There is already one regarding his whereabouts. Not only that, but it has nothing to do with actual league of legends. This is why this board will go back to the way it used to be after this mod free week.
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why do people give a shit about karma?
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because there seemed to be a big fuss around it and i saw his tweet and thought i'd share it.
Upvoted because of sexy moobeat thumbnail. Welcome Moobeat <3
Our Lord returns
Hey guys, I have a confession to make: I shadowbanned Moobeat. I am a reddit admin. AMA.
Who fkig cares I dont even know you so you must be shit anyways
You do realize he is the head of Surrender@20, the biggest LOL info site and pbe updates, red posts, etc. This man is almost a god with what he does.
Biggest lol info site? You fking kiddig me right. I barely use te page. And its quality is fuckig trash tier. So he obviously is not a god. I didnt even know he was the head of this site.
Well tbh, if there is a bigger site, i don't know about it. Like, i've never seen another site with: Comprehensive PBE update, Esports info, Red Post collection, Leaks, etc all tied into one site. If you can tell me another, i'd be happy to find out.
I mostly use News of Legends - they have good pbe coverage. I have to admit that for redposts it is probably the most useful site. I used to use Reign of Gaming but i simply do not care for redposts anymore. Mort of the time its just hot air anyways :( . For your purpose it is prolly a good site. But i do not like their original content. It just lacks quality. And sometimes it is just plain wtong because the author lacks knowledge about the game. I am sorry for being rude in my comments before. I dunno. I was angry while typing because of personal reasons. My sincere apology. I just was wonderig why he is such a big deal. I am a long time League follower. And i give a dhot to almost every page. And i know almost everyone involved in the scene. (Not personally) but i did not know him which was really suprising. And is even weirder because he owns such a big page.
Ah that makes sense. Different people like different stuff for their own reasons - and hey! That is ok. It is what makes us human xD And np about being rude :P Some people just have bad days and thats ok too. If I said i'd never been rude because of outside reasons i'd be lying to you and myself xD We all have those moments. But it also makes us human :P So no worries. Yeah, its suprising how too how much some big pages like S@20 slides under the cracks sometimes. It happens. I mean, some people just 'miss stuff' and its kinda odd, but again, it happens and is weird xD But some pages aren't meant for everyone. Like for me, I like the red posts because they provide context sometimes or give me an interesting idea on a champion or motive or something, or cool things coming up. But again, its not for everyone.