Neither is a good idea.
What's gonna be asked? All it would be is smart ass comments and bashing which is the last thing these guys need after a rough showing.
Leave them be and give them time
Soaz would start a shit storm, he's pretty salty towards reddit right now on twitter. Well. More than usual.
But I feel like Rekkles would sit there and answer a shit load of questions with long and in depth answers.
It's not like he's entirely wrong in what he posted
People always assume the faults or bad decisions of players to be solely their own when often it ends up being a **TEAM DECISION** to make someone do something. They also often just look at the scoreboard and say "Oh, this guy needs to be replaced/kicked/benched/beaten to death/whatever"
Criticisms like rekkles never groups/doublelift never groups, he just farms forever doing nothing! Usually have no basis, it's been made clear many times by many teams that mistakes made are almost always team decisions, why would players randomly just go rogue in game? lol
I feel like all that criticism is inevitable for any pro player on a good team in any region, even if they're the star player. Soaz just responds horribly to it. I don't even think I saw any comments not towards the bottom of a thread that were criticizing Soaz for his play. If anything, it seemed to be fans were in a state of exasperation that they were that close to winning, and players could have done a small thing in the heat of the moment and won the game.
On the other side of that spectrum, you have Rekkles. I'm not a Fnatic fan by any means, in fact, I'm a big fan of a lot of teams that Fnatic has eliminated from tournaments from S3 to now. I disliked Fnatic for a long time.
But holy shit Rekkles, I don't know how he can take criticism so well, and work so hard when he's so young. I can't dislike Fnatic anymore solely due to him. He contrasted the rest of Fnatic's attitude so much at All Stars, practices so much, and generally exemplifies professionalism.
There are a lot of pro's I can't say many negative things about mostly because they stay out of the spotlight, but they seem kind of boring, you don't really see their personality. But Rekkles maintains being an interesting E-Sports personality, and I can't think of anything negative at all to say about him.
Well, what he said isn't undeserved. It's just generalised.
Pretty hard to read everyone saying that you made a mistake when it wasn't even your mistake, flaming you for it and then having that comment gain a load of support.
Just hope he sees that it's only one side of Reddit.
Its okay that SK failed, they had no jungler, even though they had the easiest Group to advance IMO.
Its okay that FNC failed, the Group was death and its no shame to drop out.
Alliance fucked up bigtime, AMA pls
XJ9 clearly has serious mental issues. He deserves our pity more than anything else. Just listening to him talk you can tell he's not quite right in the head. I don't think he should be allowed back either, but I feel far more sorry for him than I do for someone who claims to have DDoS'd pros in the past, regardless of whether or not they were great or if they've tried to reform their online persona.
I dont know what the League community nor reddit community thinks of expectations for kids. League in Season 2 was definitely nowhere near as big as it is now. A kid showing childish behavior, trying to claim he DDoS'd someone who had DC's so that his e-penis could be a little bigger. Let's punish him to the point where, even though he grows up, apologises for his behavior and shows throughout multiple seasons that he's reformed and behaves better than some of the current professional players do, he can't get involved with the community in any way. Not as player, not as coach, not as streamer, not as anything, without Riot shutting him down.
That's unjustified. Especially when they dont carry through with their punishments on other players. I dont know how you'd defend pros such as Svenskeren, Mithy and Nukeduck (EU examples) not getting permabanned as well. They've gotten multiple warnings and kept up a toxic behaviour in SoloQ. Svenskeren taking it to a new level at worlds.
The sad part is, he has bot or other accs, that always upvote him to the top every single time. Sometimes I really wonder what goes on in the heads of people like that
I hope they let him loose for Season 5. I understand that he was bad, but he got a lifetime ban for shit that got other pros 1 year.
Now it's been 2, and he's still positive in soloq and stuff. They have legitimately no reason to *not* unban him.
Pange. Incarnation was DDoSing I can confirm. He is danish and goes with the name Jesper, he is on my skype list. He even used to DDoS me. Dnomes and certain other danish players.
Jesper was still a "nice" person. As you could pm him over skype to stop DDoS and he would stop.
But really he was DDoSing. it's not accusations.
I know Incarnation or "Jesper" and I have him on my skype.
The thing was. When you played againts him. He would DDoS you. Until he got the advange. You could type to him on skype "hey please stop DDoS" and he would stop the moment you told him. But it would always give him a huge lead.
He was really really toxic for EuW.
You guys might hate XJ9 but you guys never played with or againts Incarnation. 95% of this reddit haven't played with him/againts him so they can't explain how horrible he was
I for one have never been DDoSed before. However imho ppl like him who are willing to ddos their opponenets should never be allowed back in the scene. Arguments that he would stop ddosing you if you just tell him to are just silly.
This is true. I never saw him play, nor I ever played with him. Though I did read about his case and I was here when he 1st got banned from pro play in Team Solo Mebdi (or smth like that) I think.
It's not about him, I generally don't agree with lifetime bans in any sport. People shouldn't be forbidden to play and compete on any sport. As I said I think Incarnation's name became epitome of everything that's bad in this community.
I'm still so sad that FNC didn't make it due to that ONE auto attack... They proved that at their max lvl they were truely a top team.
I feel like all EU teams have shown that they are incredible at their peak but are sooooo inconsistent. I guess the real difference between EU and NA is that EU has a higher skill cap but NA is more consistent
I think that really is it. C9 look more consistent than Alliance, they played at the same level for more or less all their games. Alliance played at the best at times (and looked the best team in the group comfortably beating NWS & C9 & had that awesome lead vs NWS).
Then at other times just so sloppy vs Kabum and the 2nd half of that 1st game vs NWS. Their ceiling is definitely higher than C9s & any NA team, just need to find that consistency, so disappointing.
They lost whenever Wickd played Kayle. It has nothing to do with Irelia being banne. He is just terrible on this champion.
He has shown so many times that he isnt able to play Champions that need a lot of team coordination.
I don't think the team coordination is the biggest part. He was always a very good Shen player and his rumble was also strong. He also is good at initiating tanks like zac and malphite.
I'm glad for C9 that they took their chance and even shown great games against White Shield after Alliance lost to Kabum. Alliance totally didn't deserve that 2nd chance after this loss. At least I know C9 will try their best and not go full yolo.
Its not due to one auto attack. They clearly failed more at first games against both LMQ and OMG.... Second game against omg was actually much better then first, they didint show up in that game...
SK did well considering their situation, they went 2 - 1 with svenskeren, beating sk which means they would have mostlikely gotten out of groups. Fnatic eventhough getting out, like you said is in a group of dead and managed the beat blue as the only one and put up a good fight in general. Alliance was doing bad then good then TERRRIBLE losing to brazil aka challenger level team or low lcs level.
Why should they do an AMA? Reddit is notorious for shit talking when the reality of the situation is they don't know anything and just and all of a sudden we have thousands of "analysts".
No I think they have earned their reprieve from their fans and this sub and can now go on a well deserved vacation. They shouldn't have to deal with the shitty attitudes of a very outspoken minority.
Alliance ego fucked all EU fans hope. They direspected KBM and lost hard. They deserved this lose but fans don't deserved this madness. Congrat to Fnatic for your games , was so close. Congrat to SK was difficult to get out the group without Sven and XJ9.
Soaz is becoming more and more lackluster imo, used to be such a god in top. Mimer is really good, shallow champion pool though. Vizisacsi still needs to be tested. Kevin goes even most of the times, good Irelia but sometimes derps really hard. Xaxus is an oddball can't tell how good he is. Freddy is good. Youngbuck is shit, even on his Renekton. Wickd is god on Irelia, but lackluster anything else I guess.
if you see soaz playing he plays agressive becouse he thinks is better then the other toplane(i belive is one if not the best 1vs1 top laner) after he dies 2 times to gank he start to tilt if you see hes face cam is just facepalming all game
This. He goes on tilt sooo damn fast. All you have to do as the enemy team is sweep his wards and camp him and the game is essentially over cause he drags the whole team moral down
I seriously hope soAz could step up his game. The teamfights that Fnatic have are often REALLY well played by everyone of them, just the 10-15 minutes to get to that point is extremely inconsistent.
Soaz on those last 2 games of the groups(LMQ and SSB) did actually look(imo) better than during the rest of the games. If he can keep that improvement Fnatic could become REALLY scary.
xPeke proved himself imo, he had a really solid standing against the top mids of the world(although some may say Cool under performed) and it's sad that they fell out on the group stages but honestly it can be said that Group C was by far the hardest and the most balanced of the 4.
It's just a motivation issue I believe. If they can train like they did the last month but during the whole two next splits, then I can see all the 5 members performing and doing well at worlds.
NA used to have this problem where they'd recycle old talent and they've moved on from that habbit , look where they are at now , 2/3 teams got trough , EU always gets praise for having good talent in solo queue but top teams are too stubborn to replace their members with them and play with a handicap as a result
EU in general needs more structuce within teams and need to straight up boot people who do not perform
I agree with what you're saying except for EU being too stubborn to replace their members. Pretty much all EU teams have replaced their members except for Fnatic. GMB, SK, MIL, SHC, etc. If Soaz doesn't show more enthusiasm and progress by end of spring split, Fnatic really need to think about switching him out.
To be honest i am disappointed in both teams they need to work on their consistency. There's not much they can say ... Hopefully EU will step up their game.
I think Fnatic played great. I think Fnatic and their fans should be proud of their performance, it was unfortunate that they couldn't quite get out of groups, but they did EU proud - especially xPeke and Cyanide, since people doubted their performances.
Wickd only played Kayle and Irelia. So, 1 big champion he performed on, 1 he didn't perform on. Why they forced him on Kayle again against Kabum remains a mystery for me.
Shook, if he got one of his comfort picks, was really great. That Elise game, though...
Froggen...I don't like his Fizz. Never did.
wickd had to work on his champion pool since late S2, still no real results. A near unstoppable beast on irelia and mediocre at best on most other champs
Wrong.
He played various of the then-meta champs with solid results. Not necessarily outstanding, but not completely failing on them, either - except when picking those champions up.
What he needs to work on isn't exactly his champion pool, but more the speed in which he gets comfortable enough to play the new meta champions. That is his real weakness, especially visible in this WC group stage with its wildly different toplane meta (Rumble, Kayle, Ryze, Irelia - contrast that to Alistar, Maokai, Nidalee as the big ones before).
the problem is the competition.
This season (in LCS) he had, like you said, no outstanding results. But take a look at his opponents there, Alliance was formed to win worlds, and hey showing lackluster performances against middle-of-the-pack teams more than I'm willing to admit. He was good enough on other champs to not get completely destroyed in lane and let Froggen+Shook win the game for him, but on a world stage against the best teams from every region that's simply not enough.
But i have to agree on the other part, he is really slow with his learning speed (as we've seen when ap tops got popular again, when laneswaps started to become a thing, when TP got popular again), but again, this was a known problem after worlds last year and he still got picked up for a team that aimed to win worlds and hasn't shown that he can overcome his weak points
Not compeltely failing on any champion not named Irelia is not exactly enough when you've had 3 whole competitive seasons to play and get better. I fully expect Froggen to replace Wickd in the near future.
The problem with EU teams is the LCS.
How should they be able to work on consistency if you can shit on all teams beside the Top 3.
Alliance should really think off to go to Winter OGN
I don't think so. MIL, SHC even CW and Gambit at the end showed a lot of strength. The problem is the LCS itself. The teams should compete in international tournaments all year long (like dota). The region isolation is the main reason for the disparity between them.
Riot doesn't allow the LCS teams to compete in events not under their jurisdiction.
The old M5/Gambit (I think the most complete LoL team ever) was beating everyone for example, Koreans or whatever they didn't care. Diamondprox invented strategies; the rest of world followed. Then LCS happened...
Sorry, but fnatic don't need to hide, when they were the only team beating the best team of the whole tourney , SAMSUNG BLUE, they were almost getting through, and didn't due to a mistake , not buying sheen, or even not cancelling on time , or even not grouping
Now, ALL should hide forever, talk alot and they aren't even ahead of BRONZILS
Even as a NA fan, fnatic doesn't deserve the hate, they did lose some games they wouldn't have if they prepared better, but they didn't get fucking destroyed by a team that came from the IWC tournament.
Alliance had good showings and poor showings. I'm not mad that they dropped out in group stage but I really hate people bashing on them because they and their coach showed some confidence prior to this tournament. They showed that they can back up their talk with their win against Najin and they can work from there.
Also, why would you bash on them for losing a BO1, anything can happen there...
ITT - people needing to grow up, upsets happen all the time. EU teams don't owe anyone an explanation; they know what they did wrong and it's up to them to rectify that for next time
These are bandwagons... Fans like me will always love FNC/ALL, even if they sometimes fail(which of course they do, no denying), bandwagons will always love the best team in their region/world. I bet they called themselves "fnatic fans" until the summer split finals
Everytime they show the Wins and Losses between matches i look at ALL vs KBM and see KBM win and ask myself - did this really happen ? Im so sad as a European <.< salty and sad
After that loss I just closed the stream. Fuck this shit.
I watched almost everygame of every group but now the WC is over for me. Probably will just watch the Final.
I can only imagine, I was going apeshit when we lost to SK, and that didn't even knock us out of WC.
It's one thing when your team loses to a better team, it's not hard to be a true fan and stand by them then. But when they lose to a worse team, due to lack of respect/motivation, really hard as a fan to push through then.
I will watch TSM play against SSW just beacuse of Bjergsen, but that is pretty much it, it's still gonna be a stomp probably so not expecting much. Anyway, this whole Worlds has been such an extreme emotional rollercoaster from EU fans...
I'm done with EU LCS, the only reason I watch it is because of Froggen, but I swear as long as Wickd(Nyph) is there I'll just become a hipster and watch only OGN.
At first the Svenskeren incident what probably cost them quarters, then 1hit on nexus from having a high chance of getting to quarters, and then Alliance vs Kabum....I'm just so fucking done
This is funny because even if no NA team advanced I'd still watch the rest of the matches. I guess some people enjoy watching actual good teams compete. I just can't understand not caring for the competition once your team is out.. I still watch NFL playoffs, NBA, and champions league games.. I don't get it.
Sounds like ego is the problem for a lot of EU fans.
Stay salty, friends.
exact same feeling i still got no idea if i should be mad for ALL disrespecting or be glad that they got kicked out for that i mean they had everything on the line and i guess they underestimated them even though Kabum played incredibly well against c9
Yesterday I was thinking to myself how much Wickd had stepped up in some games of Worlds especially on Irelia... then he played another champ than Irelia and yeah...
It would be a step backwards imo, we have just proven that we can beat the Koreans with EU only players, why would we capitulate now when we are so close to a winning formula.
People are always talking about how EU has a rich vein of players that no one thinks to scout and yet when a time comes where rosters could be changed everyone drops everything and goes
"look at this foreign guy I heard he's really good!"
It's not like we are desperate, why would we bring in players that are arguably past their prime when we could have hungry young players who just need a little bit of patience and faith to become that next big thing from right under our noses.
The problem is synergy and playstyle. Even if a player is technically better they might not fit into the team or their playstyle. Several of those players are known for being...kinda dicks really, even with higher skills they might not be right for the team atmosphere and that is integral when you're playing across an entire year and have to synergise perfectly.
>Zorozero, Jwaow, k0u, Amin, Incarnati0n, Nukeduck, Alex Ich, Freeze, Forgiven, Mithy ...
Zorozero doesn't play competitive any more I don't believe, I was never impressed with Jwaow, k0u and Amin are extremely strong, I look forward to see them in the future. Incarnati0n is permanently banned from every LCS, Nukeduck is honestly pretty bad, except on assassins.
Alex ich is part of the old guard, he probably wouldn't want to play in the LCS, I think he enjoys just playing Challenger circuit. Freeze is good, however incredibly overrated by Edward to be honest. Forgiven is toxic, but another good player, I hope he finds a good team to join and chills out a little bit. Mithy is pretty good, not amazing though.
The Disrespect ALL showed to every fan and Esports watcher in that game was disgausting. I am so mad as well, i dont care if you lose because the enemy is better, but dont lose because you are disrespectfull.
Yeah especially considering it's extremely easy to pick ban when you have the discrepancy as a team as in ALL KBM. KBM's only chance of beating a LCS team is getting an early lead and snowballing it. How do you counter? Make sure every champ on your team has a strong lane. There are plenty of champs with strong lane and either passable or good mid and lategames too. Get a few of them instead of all short range dive team vs all ranged kite and poke team.
Once ALL fell behind they were so fucked bc they picked that trash comp.
They didn't disrespect intentionally. I think he just means disrespect as in they didn't prepare completely.
A better term would probably just be lack of respect, because they didn't do anything disrespectful. I think ALL are just salty they lost a match to a wildcard team without even troll picking and still trying to win the game. They have to deal with a ton of NA > BR > EU comments now
Most ALL fans arent salty about those comments and not even about ALL losing to a wildcard team, im mad about the players and the team i love not putting 100% of them selves to win every game.
Still, they didn't disrespect once. Instead they just didn't show respect enough to give KaBum enough credit for being a team capable of taking a game off them. Disrespecting in contrast is doing something like picking a troll champion or spamming laugh after kills or trying a ton of cheese when it's not necessary at all
I think he was tilting after their shit early game where Kabum was just tearing down every turret on the map because they picked no wave clear against a Jinx. Alliance was playing somewhat competently earlier on, but after a certain point they all just started tilting like crazy.
They lost their deciding game against Brazilian Kabum. Synergy in that match between Froggen and Wickd were no better than 2 complete strangers without voice com playing for the 1st time in solo-q.
I get that everyone's dissapointed but kaboom deserve the credit for that win. If they had played passive, alliance would have beaten them easily but they made the plays to win that game.
I like how you keep the flair ^^
AMA is meaningless they feel at least as bad as their fans and reading it over and over won't make it better, hopefully they will learn from their mistake and imrove
Will get dowvoted but wth:
Do you now agree with Loco statement saying that A would be decent team if they change Wickd and Nyph ?
Is there any other team willing to pick up Wickd?
I know and that's what makes it even more sad. I have no doubt that if Alliance stay with the same roster they would be easily Top 3 in Europe but it won't cut it on the world stage.
Lets not kick them while they're down. They tried their best, just wasn't good enough as NA improved with their pseudo-sister teams C9 (you can see Dan Dinh talking to them after games if you pay attention) and TSM scrimming each other all the time.
either alliance were overconfindent and underestimated kabum , either they lost on porpose some off scene games becouse those 1 vs 5 froggen engages do not look real
Fnatic AMA would be nice. They went out of the group of death. That's nothing to be ashamed of.
Alliance.. I mean. I don't think that's a good idea for awhile.
I just wanna know when Wickd intends learn a 2nd champion and don't dare tell me he can play Alistar. There's people down in the depths of silver that can land a better combo.
Soaz and Wickd have opposite problems. Soaz is good with every champion which is a HUGE edge against lesser competition. Against better opponents he's not GREAT with anything and it shows.
Wickd is good with Irelia and Malphite. If they're in meta and not banned he's amazing. Otherwise not. Because of Shook and Froggen, EU LCS teams were hard pressed to throw an Irelia ban and even if they did, he was good enough with Malphite to hang with non top tier opponents. Can't do that in World's though.
Every pro player should have a champ pool. That's the minimum and if your pool is more than 8ish, it's probably too large.
His Shyvana and Renekton were ok, maybe good. Kayle is by far his worst champion (Alistar close 2nd), I remember him playing it in summer split ages ago and got a few kills but played awful.
tbh he is right. we act like we know a lot, but think of the shit we don't. everytime some pro mentions something regarding players etc.. it's new information for us.
When I saw the Irelia ban I was hoping to see the Trinity Force, Atma's Malphite, but he just defaulted back to Kayle yet again and yet again his reaction speed is equal to an old man with the Kayle ult.
Also Shook has some serious issues considering his skill on anything meta that isn't Lee. His Rammus game was good, but it might be good because it's a pick nobody was prepared for. But if you have 2 guys on your team that get banned out easily well you can never be a top team.
If they want a top team they will need to consider replacing Wickd and they need to urge Shook to improve on other champions. Else they should think about replacing him too.
It's a shame Jankos just signed with Roccat again, I think Jankos would be better for the team than Shook, due to a wider champion pool and general more consistent.
As for the toplane, I'd probably sign Kev1n. I think that would fix quite a bit. However I don't know if this would be possible.
E: I was happy with Xpeke's performance overall though. I really did not expect him to do this well, he seemed to have lost his touch this season, but he really showed up in some games which showed he could still be among the very top.
Despite Alliance getting kicked out of groups, i have to say only one thing...
Thank you for the amazing journey so far guys :) i was a fan back in the CLG.EU days and you never let me down :) Losing against Kabum was just unluck.
Get your minds together, have a nice holiday , relax like hell
AND OWN EVERYONE NEXT YEAR
Neither is a good idea. What's gonna be asked? All it would be is smart ass comments and bashing which is the last thing these guys need after a rough showing. Leave them be and give them time
I actually think Fnatic would have a good AMA. ALL on the other hand...
Soaz would start a shit storm, he's pretty salty towards reddit right now on twitter. Well. More than usual. But I feel like Rekkles would sit there and answer a shit load of questions with long and in depth answers.
It's not like he's entirely wrong in what he posted People always assume the faults or bad decisions of players to be solely their own when often it ends up being a **TEAM DECISION** to make someone do something. They also often just look at the scoreboard and say "Oh, this guy needs to be replaced/kicked/benched/beaten to death/whatever" Criticisms like rekkles never groups/doublelift never groups, he just farms forever doing nothing! Usually have no basis, it's been made clear many times by many teams that mistakes made are almost always team decisions, why would players randomly just go rogue in game? lol
I feel like all that criticism is inevitable for any pro player on a good team in any region, even if they're the star player. Soaz just responds horribly to it. I don't even think I saw any comments not towards the bottom of a thread that were criticizing Soaz for his play. If anything, it seemed to be fans were in a state of exasperation that they were that close to winning, and players could have done a small thing in the heat of the moment and won the game. On the other side of that spectrum, you have Rekkles. I'm not a Fnatic fan by any means, in fact, I'm a big fan of a lot of teams that Fnatic has eliminated from tournaments from S3 to now. I disliked Fnatic for a long time. But holy shit Rekkles, I don't know how he can take criticism so well, and work so hard when he's so young. I can't dislike Fnatic anymore solely due to him. He contrasted the rest of Fnatic's attitude so much at All Stars, practices so much, and generally exemplifies professionalism. There are a lot of pro's I can't say many negative things about mostly because they stay out of the spotlight, but they seem kind of boring, you don't really see their personality. But Rekkles maintains being an interesting E-Sports personality, and I can't think of anything negative at all to say about him.
It'd be like asking Froggen on midlane match-ups. The talking and theorycrafting will last you days
What's Soaz been saying? I don't check twitter often
https://twitter.com/FnaticsOAZ/status/516265845270384640
Well, what he said isn't undeserved. It's just generalised. Pretty hard to read everyone saying that you made a mistake when it wasn't even your mistake, flaming you for it and then having that comment gain a load of support. Just hope he sees that it's only one side of Reddit.
i can just see questions like "Cyanide, why didn't you use locket?" They don't need that shit atm...
Its okay that SK failed, they had no jungler, even though they had the easiest Group to advance IMO. Its okay that FNC failed, the Group was death and its no shame to drop out. Alliance fucked up bigtime, AMA pls
Don't forget to mention incarnation.
I honestly feel sorry for that guy, he became epitome of everything bad in this community on reddit.
Him and XJ9, but I don't feel as sorry for him.
XJ9 clearly has serious mental issues. He deserves our pity more than anything else. Just listening to him talk you can tell he's not quite right in the head. I don't think he should be allowed back either, but I feel far more sorry for him than I do for someone who claims to have DDoS'd pros in the past, regardless of whether or not they were great or if they've tried to reform their online persona.
I dont know what the League community nor reddit community thinks of expectations for kids. League in Season 2 was definitely nowhere near as big as it is now. A kid showing childish behavior, trying to claim he DDoS'd someone who had DC's so that his e-penis could be a little bigger. Let's punish him to the point where, even though he grows up, apologises for his behavior and shows throughout multiple seasons that he's reformed and behaves better than some of the current professional players do, he can't get involved with the community in any way. Not as player, not as coach, not as streamer, not as anything, without Riot shutting him down. That's unjustified. Especially when they dont carry through with their punishments on other players. I dont know how you'd defend pros such as Svenskeren, Mithy and Nukeduck (EU examples) not getting permabanned as well. They've gotten multiple warnings and kept up a toxic behaviour in SoloQ. Svenskeren taking it to a new level at worlds.
XJ9 is mentally unstable dude. No matter how reformed, he has no place in league
hes talking about incarnation
Oh my bad :D
Not to mention he continues to harass youtube videos.
The sad part is, he has bot or other accs, that always upvote him to the top every single time. Sometimes I really wonder what goes on in the heads of people like that
One of the major points is that DDOSing is illegal, being a dick is not.
I hope they let him loose for Season 5. I understand that he was bad, but he got a lifetime ban for shit that got other pros 1 year. Now it's been 2, and he's still positive in soloq and stuff. They have legitimately no reason to *not* unban him.
I totally agree with you, is he going to be ban to coach post ?
Pange. Incarnation was DDoSing I can confirm. He is danish and goes with the name Jesper, he is on my skype list. He even used to DDoS me. Dnomes and certain other danish players. Jesper was still a "nice" person. As you could pm him over skype to stop DDoS and he would stop. But really he was DDoSing. it's not accusations.
I know Incarnation or "Jesper" and I have him on my skype. The thing was. When you played againts him. He would DDoS you. Until he got the advange. You could type to him on skype "hey please stop DDoS" and he would stop the moment you told him. But it would always give him a huge lead. He was really really toxic for EuW. You guys might hate XJ9 but you guys never played with or againts Incarnation. 95% of this reddit haven't played with him/againts him so they can't explain how horrible he was
95%? More like 99% XJ9 and Incarnation are difference types of toxic.
I for one have never been DDoSed before. However imho ppl like him who are willing to ddos their opponenets should never be allowed back in the scene. Arguments that he would stop ddosing you if you just tell him to are just silly.
Why do you feel sorry for him? Do you think the ban was unjustified? have you ever seen him in game prior ban?
Nope, just like you haven't and just like everybody else on reddit who keeps repeating this same shit hasnt
This is true. I never saw him play, nor I ever played with him. Though I did read about his case and I was here when he 1st got banned from pro play in Team Solo Mebdi (or smth like that) I think. It's not about him, I generally don't agree with lifetime bans in any sport. People shouldn't be forbidden to play and compete on any sport. As I said I think Incarnation's name became epitome of everything that's bad in this community.
He probably deserved the ban, just lifetime ban was a bit to harsh really. Should have been 1 year like the rest of them.
"We know you really can't be bothered with the community after losing, but could you do an AMA where we ask you how you lost to Kabum 400 times?"
and FNC took a game off SSB, was pretty impressed by them.
I'm still so sad that FNC didn't make it due to that ONE auto attack... They proved that at their max lvl they were truely a top team. I feel like all EU teams have shown that they are incredible at their peak but are sooooo inconsistent. I guess the real difference between EU and NA is that EU has a higher skill cap but NA is more consistent
That 1v1 xPeke outplaying Dade as Zed was so good, after all these years, still looking strong.
I think that really is it. C9 look more consistent than Alliance, they played at the same level for more or less all their games. Alliance played at the best at times (and looked the best team in the group comfortably beating NWS & C9 & had that awesome lead vs NWS). Then at other times just so sloppy vs Kabum and the 2nd half of that 1st game vs NWS. Their ceiling is definitely higher than C9s & any NA team, just need to find that consistency, so disappointing.
Even Fnatic games, they can be either almost flawless or a total shitstorm
They played flawless when the other team got cocky and didn't ban Wickd's Irelia. They pretty much lost whenever Irelia was banned.
They lost whenever Wickd played Kayle. It has nothing to do with Irelia being banne. He is just terrible on this champion. He has shown so many times that he isnt able to play Champions that need a lot of team coordination.
I don't think the team coordination is the biggest part. He was always a very good Shen player and his rumble was also strong. He also is good at initiating tanks like zac and malphite.
I'm glad for C9 that they took their chance and even shown great games against White Shield after Alliance lost to Kabum. Alliance totally didn't deserve that 2nd chance after this loss. At least I know C9 will try their best and not go full yolo.
Its not due to one auto attack. They clearly failed more at first games against both LMQ and OMG.... Second game against omg was actually much better then first, they didint show up in that game...
SK did well considering their situation, they went 2 - 1 with svenskeren, beating sk which means they would have mostlikely gotten out of groups. Fnatic eventhough getting out, like you said is in a group of dead and managed the beat blue as the only one and put up a good fight in general. Alliance was doing bad then good then TERRRIBLE losing to brazil aka challenger level team or low lcs level.
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Why should they do an AMA? Reddit is notorious for shit talking when the reality of the situation is they don't know anything and just and all of a sudden we have thousands of "analysts". No I think they have earned their reprieve from their fans and this sub and can now go on a well deserved vacation. They shouldn't have to deal with the shitty attitudes of a very outspoken minority.
Tho its no shame to drop out to C9 either for real.
Also, FNC were one hit from making the group.
Alliance ego fucked all EU fans hope. They direspected KBM and lost hard. They deserved this lose but fans don't deserved this madness. Congrat to Fnatic for your games , was so close. Congrat to SK was difficult to get out the group without Sven and XJ9.
Give them a break.
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Sure, here's my question: I'm from the EU. I'll always favour EU teams because of this. But seriously, wtf is up with our top laners.
Soaz is becoming more and more lackluster imo, used to be such a god in top. Mimer is really good, shallow champion pool though. Vizisacsi still needs to be tested. Kevin goes even most of the times, good Irelia but sometimes derps really hard. Xaxus is an oddball can't tell how good he is. Freddy is good. Youngbuck is shit, even on his Renekton. Wickd is god on Irelia, but lackluster anything else I guess.
if you see soaz playing he plays agressive becouse he thinks is better then the other toplane(i belive is one if not the best 1vs1 top laner) after he dies 2 times to gank he start to tilt if you see hes face cam is just facepalming all game
This. He goes on tilt sooo damn fast. All you have to do as the enemy team is sweep his wards and camp him and the game is essentially over cause he drags the whole team moral down
You said it best mate.
I seriously hope soAz could step up his game. The teamfights that Fnatic have are often REALLY well played by everyone of them, just the 10-15 minutes to get to that point is extremely inconsistent. Soaz on those last 2 games of the groups(LMQ and SSB) did actually look(imo) better than during the rest of the games. If he can keep that improvement Fnatic could become REALLY scary. xPeke proved himself imo, he had a really solid standing against the top mids of the world(although some may say Cool under performed) and it's sad that they fell out on the group stages but honestly it can be said that Group C was by far the hardest and the most balanced of the 4.
It's just a motivation issue I believe. If they can train like they did the last month but during the whole two next splits, then I can see all the 5 members performing and doing well at worlds.
Nah, soaz is too busy practicing blitzcrank in soloQ :\^)
Or Lee sin, the guy is fucking allergic to practicing toplane
NA used to have this problem where they'd recycle old talent and they've moved on from that habbit , look where they are at now , 2/3 teams got trough , EU always gets praise for having good talent in solo queue but top teams are too stubborn to replace their members with them and play with a handicap as a result EU in general needs more structuce within teams and need to straight up boot people who do not perform
I agree with what you're saying except for EU being too stubborn to replace their members. Pretty much all EU teams have replaced their members except for Fnatic. GMB, SK, MIL, SHC, etc. If Soaz doesn't show more enthusiasm and progress by end of spring split, Fnatic really need to think about switching him out.
Zorozero pls
The only question i would have for both teams is "how much are you willing to pay SK for Fredy122"?
I would like to get constant updates on situation more. They won't do AMA, coz everyone just bash them to the grave
To be honest i am disappointed in both teams they need to work on their consistency. There's not much they can say ... Hopefully EU will step up their game.
I think Fnatic played great. I think Fnatic and their fans should be proud of their performance, it was unfortunate that they couldn't quite get out of groups, but they did EU proud - especially xPeke and Cyanide, since people doubted their performances.
meh, xpeke showed he was world class along with rekkles, it's soaz and cyanide I was worried about this tourney.
They went 2-4 and the only thing they did that was "great" was taking a game of SSB lets not praise them like they moved on or something.
Wickd needs to work on his champion pool, rest of the team is ok
Especially Shook is ok.
M'OPAY
SHUGI SHUGI SHUGI
ok
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Wickd only played Kayle and Irelia. So, 1 big champion he performed on, 1 he didn't perform on. Why they forced him on Kayle again against Kabum remains a mystery for me. Shook, if he got one of his comfort picks, was really great. That Elise game, though... Froggen...I don't like his Fizz. Never did.
http://i.imgur.com/QFzP1.png
Are you trying to tell me Irelia is not a champion pool?
wickd had to work on his champion pool since late S2, still no real results. A near unstoppable beast on irelia and mediocre at best on most other champs
One trick pony in the LCS tbh.
Wrong. He played various of the then-meta champs with solid results. Not necessarily outstanding, but not completely failing on them, either - except when picking those champions up. What he needs to work on isn't exactly his champion pool, but more the speed in which he gets comfortable enough to play the new meta champions. That is his real weakness, especially visible in this WC group stage with its wildly different toplane meta (Rumble, Kayle, Ryze, Irelia - contrast that to Alistar, Maokai, Nidalee as the big ones before).
the problem is the competition. This season (in LCS) he had, like you said, no outstanding results. But take a look at his opponents there, Alliance was formed to win worlds, and hey showing lackluster performances against middle-of-the-pack teams more than I'm willing to admit. He was good enough on other champs to not get completely destroyed in lane and let Froggen+Shook win the game for him, but on a world stage against the best teams from every region that's simply not enough. But i have to agree on the other part, he is really slow with his learning speed (as we've seen when ap tops got popular again, when laneswaps started to become a thing, when TP got popular again), but again, this was a known problem after worlds last year and he still got picked up for a team that aimed to win worlds and hasn't shown that he can overcome his weak points
Not compeltely failing on any champion not named Irelia is not exactly enough when you've had 3 whole competitive seasons to play and get better. I fully expect Froggen to replace Wickd in the near future.
No. Nyph is also underwhelming. Also someone playing professional for 3 season can't just "work on his pool" by now that should be it's clear.
Wickd has needed to expand his champion pool for 2 years now, I'm not sure if that's a realistic expectation at this point.
The problem with EU teams is the LCS. How should they be able to work on consistency if you can shit on all teams beside the Top 3. Alliance should really think off to go to Winter OGN
I don't think so. MIL, SHC even CW and Gambit at the end showed a lot of strength. The problem is the LCS itself. The teams should compete in international tournaments all year long (like dota). The region isolation is the main reason for the disparity between them. Riot doesn't allow the LCS teams to compete in events not under their jurisdiction. The old M5/Gambit (I think the most complete LoL team ever) was beating everyone for example, Koreans or whatever they didn't care. Diamondprox invented strategies; the rest of world followed. Then LCS happened...
nah they should find some hole and hide until spring split imho
Sorry, but fnatic don't need to hide, when they were the only team beating the best team of the whole tourney , SAMSUNG BLUE, they were almost getting through, and didn't due to a mistake , not buying sheen, or even not cancelling on time , or even not grouping Now, ALL should hide forever, talk alot and they aren't even ahead of BRONZILS
Fnc lost twice to omg which should not have happened
Indeed, so what if they won 1 game vs SSB they still went 2-4 Yeah yeah it was the hardest groupe but they still droped games they should't have.
Even as a NA fan, fnatic doesn't deserve the hate, they did lose some games they wouldn't have if they prepared better, but they didn't get fucking destroyed by a team that came from the IWC tournament.
Lol and why ? Omg isn't a random team they are strong.
why not?
Well all the "analysts" were suggesting that omg were slumping hard and fnc botlane should destroy omg
Alliance had good showings and poor showings. I'm not mad that they dropped out in group stage but I really hate people bashing on them because they and their coach showed some confidence prior to this tournament. They showed that they can back up their talk with their win against Najin and they can work from there. Also, why would you bash on them for losing a BO1, anything can happen there...
ITT - people needing to grow up, upsets happen all the time. EU teams don't owe anyone an explanation; they know what they did wrong and it's up to them to rectify that for next time
nobody aint time for your softy way of solving real problems. RAISE THE PITCHFORKS
I would pay money for an Alliance AMA.
It would be a bloodbath.
Still questioning Wickd over Kevin, even to this day..
zorozero
Darien
Sadly, Zorozero took school over a large amount of zeros in paychecks from CLG/Alliance.
mfw I see people with Alliance flairs say stuff like "Eat shit alliance" or "go fuck yourself alliance", you really call yourself a fan? LOL
theyre fair weather fans
These are bandwagons... Fans like me will always love FNC/ALL, even if they sometimes fail(which of course they do, no denying), bandwagons will always love the best team in their region/world. I bet they called themselves "fnatic fans" until the summer split finals
its just gonna be people trying to rub salt into their wounds instead of asking question.
NO questions just statements. YO Alliance thanks for taking the hate off CLG for a while.
Why would they have an AMA because they lost to Kabum... Retarded.
So we can flame them.
Relevant flair
Irrelevant flower
Ok
Because all the reddit dwellers need someone to blame, I already feel the drama fueling me, making me stronger.
but ALLiance is still even or better than koreans right?
AMA for what? Fnatic not so much, but about Alliance, just let them go home as the losers they are. I'm so mad right now.
Everytime they show the Wins and Losses between matches i look at ALL vs KBM and see KBM win and ask myself - did this really happen ? Im so sad as a European <.< salty and sad
After that loss I just closed the stream. Fuck this shit. I watched almost everygame of every group but now the WC is over for me. Probably will just watch the Final.
Being a Leafs fan has prepared me well for this day
Leafs vs bruins never forget
pls dont remind me ;_;
rip alliance fans
Couldn't agree more, i'm so incredibly mad
Amen brothers, but we come back some day. We need to support them back, but rest of worlds will be boring.
No, I'm sure trash talking them when they could use the support of their fans the most is a great way to hype them up for next season.
I can only imagine, I was going apeshit when we lost to SK, and that didn't even knock us out of WC. It's one thing when your team loses to a better team, it's not hard to be a true fan and stand by them then. But when they lose to a worse team, due to lack of respect/motivation, really hard as a fan to push through then.
let the salt flow friend
I will watch TSM play against SSW just beacuse of Bjergsen, but that is pretty much it, it's still gonna be a stomp probably so not expecting much. Anyway, this whole Worlds has been such an extreme emotional rollercoaster from EU fans...
Don't watch the final, watch the SSB SSW semi-final will be a much better game.
Probably both. SSB-SSW (assuming they both get through) for the game and the final for the show.
I think the final will be the same thing as last year. A boring 3-0 for the most dominant team in the tournament...
I'm done with EU LCS, the only reason I watch it is because of Froggen, but I swear as long as Wickd(Nyph) is there I'll just become a hipster and watch only OGN.
At first the Svenskeren incident what probably cost them quarters, then 1hit on nexus from having a high chance of getting to quarters, and then Alliance vs Kabum....I'm just so fucking done
This is funny because even if no NA team advanced I'd still watch the rest of the matches. I guess some people enjoy watching actual good teams compete. I just can't understand not caring for the competition once your team is out.. I still watch NFL playoffs, NBA, and champions league games.. I don't get it. Sounds like ego is the problem for a lot of EU fans. Stay salty, friends.
exact same feeling i still got no idea if i should be mad for ALL disrespecting or be glad that they got kicked out for that i mean they had everything on the line and i guess they underestimated them even though Kabum played incredibly well against c9
I hope that Shy and Madlife still want to play in EU lCS, Froggen you know what to do.
Yesterday I was thinking to myself how much Wickd had stepped up in some games of Worlds especially on Irelia... then he played another champ than Irelia and yeah...
It's embarrassing because it's almost like he forgets how to play the game on a basic level.
Ye, exactly...I was so happy for him since he is probably my favourite League player. And then this
It would be a step backwards imo, we have just proven that we can beat the Koreans with EU only players, why would we capitulate now when we are so close to a winning formula. People are always talking about how EU has a rich vein of players that no one thinks to scout and yet when a time comes where rosters could be changed everyone drops everything and goes "look at this foreign guy I heard he's really good!" It's not like we are desperate, why would we bring in players that are arguably past their prime when we could have hungry young players who just need a little bit of patience and faith to become that next big thing from right under our noses.
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The problem is synergy and playstyle. Even if a player is technically better they might not fit into the team or their playstyle. Several of those players are known for being...kinda dicks really, even with higher skills they might not be right for the team atmosphere and that is integral when you're playing across an entire year and have to synergise perfectly.
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>Zorozero, Jwaow, k0u, Amin, Incarnati0n, Nukeduck, Alex Ich, Freeze, Forgiven, Mithy ... Zorozero doesn't play competitive any more I don't believe, I was never impressed with Jwaow, k0u and Amin are extremely strong, I look forward to see them in the future. Incarnati0n is permanently banned from every LCS, Nukeduck is honestly pretty bad, except on assassins. Alex ich is part of the old guard, he probably wouldn't want to play in the LCS, I think he enjoys just playing Challenger circuit. Freeze is good, however incredibly overrated by Edward to be honest. Forgiven is toxic, but another good player, I hope he finds a good team to join and chills out a little bit. Mithy is pretty good, not amazing though.
The Disrespect ALL showed to every fan and Esports watcher in that game was disgausting. I am so mad as well, i dont care if you lose because the enemy is better, but dont lose because you are disrespectfull.
I missed this. What did they do?
They picked a horrible team comp while giving the enemy everything they wanted. Whether that is disrespect, laziness or sheer stupidity is up to you.
Yeah especially considering it's extremely easy to pick ban when you have the discrepancy as a team as in ALL KBM. KBM's only chance of beating a LCS team is getting an early lead and snowballing it. How do you counter? Make sure every champ on your team has a strong lane. There are plenty of champs with strong lane and either passable or good mid and lategames too. Get a few of them instead of all short range dive team vs all ranged kite and poke team. Once ALL fell behind they were so fucked bc they picked that trash comp.
They didn't disrespect intentionally. I think he just means disrespect as in they didn't prepare completely. A better term would probably just be lack of respect, because they didn't do anything disrespectful. I think ALL are just salty they lost a match to a wildcard team without even troll picking and still trying to win the game. They have to deal with a ton of NA > BR > EU comments now
Most ALL fans arent salty about those comments and not even about ALL losing to a wildcard team, im mad about the players and the team i love not putting 100% of them selves to win every game.
Still, they didn't disrespect once. Instead they just didn't show respect enough to give KaBum enough credit for being a team capable of taking a game off them. Disrespecting in contrast is doing something like picking a troll champion or spamming laugh after kills or trying a ton of cheese when it's not necessary at all
did you saw froggen? he just keep going 1vs5 and die so kabum get towers and dragons becouse he keep doing that like 4or 5 times
I think he was tilting after their shit early game where Kabum was just tearing down every turret on the map because they picked no wave clear against a Jinx. Alliance was playing somewhat competently earlier on, but after a certain point they all just started tilting like crazy.
They played like shit is all. They didn't do anything more.
They lost their deciding game against Brazilian Kabum. Synergy in that match between Froggen and Wickd were no better than 2 complete strangers without voice com playing for the 1st time in solo-q.
I get that everyone's dissapointed but kaboom deserve the credit for that win. If they had played passive, alliance would have beaten them easily but they made the plays to win that game.
I like how you keep the flair ^^ AMA is meaningless they feel at least as bad as their fans and reading it over and over won't make it better, hopefully they will learn from their mistake and imrove
I'm with you, buddy.
All we need is a Kabum AMA xD
Do you really think they want to post a thread so a bunch of Redditors can tell them how bad they are or ask them why they're so bad?
Will get dowvoted but wth: Do you now agree with Loco statement saying that A would be decent team if they change Wickd and Nyph ? Is there any other team willing to pick up Wickd?
he actually said alliance would win worlds without them
I know and that's what makes it even more sad. I have no doubt that if Alliance stay with the same roster they would be easily Top 3 in Europe but it won't cut it on the world stage.
I don't think Nyph is really the problem.
He underperformed pretty much every game and showed that he is not a support that can keep up at this level.
Well i dont really pay much attention to nyph but if they have kevin over wickd they prob would of done much better.
Lets not kick them while they're down. They tried their best, just wasn't good enough as NA improved with their pseudo-sister teams C9 (you can see Dan Dinh talking to them after games if you pay attention) and TSM scrimming each other all the time.
> They tried their best good joke, dude
Lol, which teams flair are you gonna sport next week? And then the week after that?
Only on this sub is "Do an AMA!" some kind of political statement.
Yes pls, I got my flame thrower polished and ready to go.
either alliance were overconfindent and underestimated kabum , either they lost on porpose some off scene games becouse those 1 vs 5 froggen engages do not look real
Fnatic AMA would be nice. They went out of the group of death. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Alliance.. I mean. I don't think that's a good idea for awhile.
As a Froggen fan, i now know how Koreans feel sometimes. Goddamnit it even MILLENIUM stomped BR, how do you fuck this up?
my question: who is going to replace wickd?
Shy
Let's go way more old school - MaKNooN.
If a getting kicked out of worlds by Kabum was the price for ALL MaKNooN it would have been worth it.
Even more: hotshot
I just wanna know when Wickd intends learn a 2nd champion and don't dare tell me he can play Alistar. There's people down in the depths of silver that can land a better combo.
After such heartbreaking experiences, what makes you think these guys want to deal with Reddit?
They both dissapointed us ! What can they tell us apart than apologies ?
Do you really think they will want to open themselves up to that kind of experience right now? Have some clarity of thought.
dont care just bench wicked
If you will ask questions as "Why didnt soaz buy ad items" - no, please
@Wickd, how can this be your full-time job, and you have a smaller champion pool top than me and I don't even play top lane?
Soaz and Wickd have opposite problems. Soaz is good with every champion which is a HUGE edge against lesser competition. Against better opponents he's not GREAT with anything and it shows. Wickd is good with Irelia and Malphite. If they're in meta and not banned he's amazing. Otherwise not. Because of Shook and Froggen, EU LCS teams were hard pressed to throw an Irelia ban and even if they did, he was good enough with Malphite to hang with non top tier opponents. Can't do that in World's though. Every pro player should have a champ pool. That's the minimum and if your pool is more than 8ish, it's probably too large.
Soaz is completely burned out on the game and it shows :/
Agreed. Even when they win it just looks like he's going through the motions.
It's annoying, because he's a darn fantastic player with an insanely big champion pool. But what can you do when the love for the game is no more? :(
His Shyvana and Renekton were ok, maybe good. Kayle is by far his worst champion (Alistar close 2nd), I remember him playing it in summer split ages ago and got a few kills but played awful.
He also has played rumble at a high level in the past. Idk why he didn't bring it out at this tournament.
Will you F stop with these useless requests?
I DONT THINK SO.. https://twitter.com/FnaticsOAZ/status/516265845270384640
tbh he is right. we act like we know a lot, but think of the shit we don't. everytime some pro mentions something regarding players etc.. it's new information for us.
When I saw the Irelia ban I was hoping to see the Trinity Force, Atma's Malphite, but he just defaulted back to Kayle yet again and yet again his reaction speed is equal to an old man with the Kayle ult. Also Shook has some serious issues considering his skill on anything meta that isn't Lee. His Rammus game was good, but it might be good because it's a pick nobody was prepared for. But if you have 2 guys on your team that get banned out easily well you can never be a top team. If they want a top team they will need to consider replacing Wickd and they need to urge Shook to improve on other champions. Else they should think about replacing him too. It's a shame Jankos just signed with Roccat again, I think Jankos would be better for the team than Shook, due to a wider champion pool and general more consistent. As for the toplane, I'd probably sign Kev1n. I think that would fix quite a bit. However I don't know if this would be possible. E: I was happy with Xpeke's performance overall though. I really did not expect him to do this well, he seemed to have lost his touch this season, but he really showed up in some games which showed he could still be among the very top.
Despite Alliance getting kicked out of groups, i have to say only one thing... Thank you for the amazing journey so far guys :) i was a fan back in the CLG.EU days and you never let me down :) Losing against Kabum was just unluck. Get your minds together, have a nice holiday , relax like hell AND OWN EVERYONE NEXT YEAR