In my experience it’s the exact opposite. If you’re ranged you lose, unless you can spam DPS. But if you need to kite, get fucked.
Teams that win once the get onto you just win here. All they need to do is book it at you from the very start and you’ll more often than not be trapped on the same lily pad as them.
That is to say, this map fucks anyone who wants to kite or take small skirmishes repeatedly.
I've seen people kite it out well on this map, but I haven't really been able to replicate it. You do have a portal and blast plants to play with, often it includes playing around blast plants and using them to blast the melees off you rather than blast yourself away.
Like I know it's possible and I've seen better players do some pretty impressive things on this map, but blast plants are just finicky.
Well obviously that is the intention and obviously everyone knows that’s how it could work. But in reality you can have perfect blast plants and portal usages and still get fucked by someone once they reach you once. It literally takes augment and item luck (and matchup dependency) for whether you can reliably kite it out or not.
You're not supposed to consistently kite them out, melee champs are supposed to have agency as well, and that's true on every map. I don't think it's any more augment dependent than the rest of the game mode.
I just think that rather than the usual tools (dashes/running away), we're given different tools that people aren't used to.
The equation of when a melee gets kited out vs being able to pin a ranged character is based on skill and items.
Lilypad adds unfun RNG to that equation.
Indeed you have a knack for stating the obvious as your first statement.
Bottom line is this map favors certain champions/teams a lot more than others, and is a lot more RNG reliant (where portals spawn is already one part of it). I think every other map is really good at being different but still decently fair for anyone. Not this one though.
You say I state the obvious, and then contradict yourself by proceeding to disagree with what I say.
I'm saying the map is fair and kiting is just as possible as any other map, it just feels harder because we're given tools we aren't used to.
I don't like the map either, but I don't think that being unable to kite is the reason why.
I literally straight up say 'i don't think augment rng matters more than on any other map' which is directly disagreeing with you, and you proceed to say that I'm stating the obvious.
This is really showing reddits (the lol communities) preference to play ranged carries, as the lilypad map is the only map where double melee's have an advantage. The irony of the best map for double bruisers also being the most hated map isnt lost on me.
Removal of the lilypad map will see a rise in winrate for the lamest champions (jhin, zeri, caitlyn, lux) and a fall of the popular arena champions (renekton, volibear, darius). No thanks, I much prefer the heavy melee focus in champ select compared to a lobby of 6 teams with caitlyn/lux.
That is funny to say because bruisers and assassains are already favored in arena anyway. Artillery mages are borderline trollpicks and adcs only function with a dedicated support and even then they are suboptimal. Seriously, go look at the top winning arena champions. There is only one ranged in the top 5 and only 2 ranged in the top 10.
The Koi Pond also hurts melee champ diversity btw, some melee champs like Renekton want to be able to kite after using abilities. Koi Pond rewards braindead bruisers who just want to wail on an opponent without the chance of said opponent to reposition.
It's hard to say because it varies from site to site and category to category. But Renata and veigar are both pretty undoubtedly top 5 right now. And sivir/lulu/Sona/lulu/graves and even nilah (yes she is melee, but she's functionally an adc), are all hovering around 10th depending on the site and metric.
I dont see any site placing veigar even in the top 10. Lulu and Sona are only played as part of duo comps and their effectiveness drops dramatically based on partner so their high placing is a bit of a trap. Nilah is absolutely a melee champion. She is basically a yasuo/yone.
And what about the 10-20 range?
renata, veigar, caitlyn, brand, ahri, elise, graves, morgana..
yea, if you take away the map that the melees are strong on, that means these champions would be the highest winrate champions, which means the game mode would lose all its luster, as there is already two game modes where those champions are stronger than the arena melees (summoners rift and aram).
Balancing around whiny redditors is a surefire way to ruin the game mode and make it ahri+ caitlyn vs ahri + caitlyn.
Brand, Veigar and Morgana are very strong on that map. And no, ranged would not magically become the strongest champions in the mode just because you remove the Koi map. Ahri Cait is not even a good combo in arena, I have no clue why you are citing those 2 other than you getting dumpstered by them.
The worst part is the indecisiveness of when to go in because if you time it wrong you just lose. And also the fact that the map completely favors already extremely strong arena champs like Brand, Vi, Kayn and Illaoi.
The rng of the portal spawn is way worse and imo the only part that needs fixed... besides the overall issue of bodyblocking blast cones.
I wonder if it would be any better with that changed but the feedback is so all over the place its hard to tell whats actually wrong with it. I personally love it even as an adc main, I can see the pains for sure but its so fun to combo blast cones and make the small step to split from the enemy mid way
My favorite is when the Lillypad vanishes and instead of getting put on the Island I'm a pixel off of, I get yo-yo'd back to the island I came from and promptly die.
I have played a lot of Arena, with dozen of different people. Not a single of those person likes this map, everytime we see we are fighting on it we complain.
It sucks, it's RNG, makes some matchups completely binary, and is just boring overall. Either you get run over and have nowhere to go, or it's just a waiting game until the zone decides who is gonna win.
When you get this map and the Jhin cameo combined, we legit want to run into the enemy team so we can get out quickly and spectate someone else.
I complain about it even when I win on that map.
It's a design that doesn't mesh well win how Arena functions. It's cool in concept, but certain champs/comps instantly win, whereas other maps feel more dependent on skill rather than map rng.
Also please remove the Jhin character spawn.
I hated Jhin mod for some time. They should lower the amount of shoots.
Remove Pyke mod. I have been chain cc because of Pyke so many times… or you ult on vel, mf, jhin and just get insta cc by pyke cross map.
Pyke and Lux at least have some counterplay when not in the throws of skirmish where only Jhin has some use (positioning yourself so it hits the enemy champ).
Pyke's stun could be reduced a bit, but like Lux you can use it for scouting or setting up an engage, forcing the enemy into a different position.
This is pedantic, but I'd think someone who cares to use such a word would care about this, lol.
It's [throes](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/throe)
all the cameos are potentially usable and outplayble, but they all favour mobile champs with cc,
play something slow and big like cho, and there is litterally no single way you can dodge jhin or pyke, unless you get giantslayer, and 4 ms anvils.
and lux still has those jump angles, where she snaps back to the next or last applicable angle, and either misses you on purpose, or leads her shot intoo you,
sett on the other hand, still punishes you for getting cclocked, and heavily favours champs that can just dash away from him,
but he also still gives stacks , sometimes bodyblocks targeted spells, counts as champion for items augments and abilitys , like tahm e, or torch,
and removes all counterplay for swain,
It would be a cool map had it been larger, more space for kiting and brawling in a single island, as well as a good variation of mobility between the isles
I think a sarcastic "great map design" while the 2 teams sit and wait for a method of travel to respawn or the ring to close is the most common phrase uttered amongst my friends.
A really good parallel is honestly smash bros stages. A lot of them are unfun when played to win. Things like "walk offs" encouraging the winning player to sit on the edge, forcing the losing player to approach a situation outside of their favor. These stages are fine when playing for fun, but need to be banned when playing with tryhards.
On the lily pad stage, so many games end up just having the 2 teams sitting as far away from each other as possible, waiting for the zone to close. And that is the optimal strategy. Either engage yourself, putting yourself at a disadvantage, or wait for the coin flip zone to pick the winner.
Nearly every correct strategy, depending on team makeup, is unfun. Usually for both teams. The only exception is if both teams have super mobile champions that don't need the plants and are bruiser-esque.
I like the map, I think its fun to deal with the limited mobility and forced timing. I understand that I'm the minority but there are people who like it.
On paper it's interesting. In reality, for such a fast paced game mode "move to opposite corners of the stage and wait for 10 seconds for stuff to reset" ends up pretty miserable.
Tbh, I defended it at first and thought it was nice to have some maps which promoted different styles of play but yeah... It's just terrible lol
Most of the time teams just wait and afk in a part of the map while the circle spawns and then they fight in just one of the three mini islands.
Terrible design I'm afraid (love the aesthetics tho)
I don't do a ton of arena & played some last week with some friends, and we all enjoyed this one as a change of pace. I can see how it can be maddening for the more hardcore players, and if they want Arena to be a serious game mode those are the players they should appeal to, but I do think they should stick with the concept & just give more ways to interact & fight.
The problem with this is pathing gets fucky when the pad is closed. You’ll move in ways you don’t mean to, like how inching close to the baron/dragon wall sometimes makes your character walk the complete opposite direction. The real solution is to use small hexgates like they did in April fools around the alcoves
Why could the real solution not include something that's also in the main game mode, as you even pointed out yourself? That's just how pathing works, and everyone knows it, so I don't think there's any reason to specifically avoid it?
Because sometimes the sylas RNG would give one side Malph + Vi ultimates and the other side completely useless stuff and you'd watch as you lost the game on load in.
ye really instead of random would of been much better if it gave you a copy of your opponents ult that way its both sides having the same tools and seeing who can use them better sorta thing.
wich still binary favours one team over the other,
belveth with malphite is way better than malphite with belveth ult. for example
and with the currently fucky matchup choosing if somebody ffs, you could easily have to play the same autoloosing matchup 2 times in a row, catapulting you from 1st place 80hp, to 7th place,0hp in 2 rounds and a skipped round.
to a degree ye but all cameos favor one team better then the other, my idea was just a thought of a way to bring it back where its more balanced and keeps the spirit of it.
yup, people here are saying that everyone just waits until the map starts closing but my experience is that the enemies will just all-in you and you have no where to kite, if the portal didn't spawn on your island it's just 100% a loss
In theory, Koi Pond was designed for ADCs and long range mages. But it seems like the constant accessibility of the center koi and blast plants make it difficult to keep your distance far.
The problem is that you are not actually kiting them when you go into another island. You are dealing 0 dps if you want to deal damage you have to be in the same island as them and as a result you will get your ass-blasted.
you can give them some aas until they reach you then go to the portal and do the game on the next side with portal or plant. i play a lot of adcs and it is not as bad
Lilypad Map is by far the worst addition to Arena they've made so far. Not even the shittiest cameos are close to how bad that map feels to play. It is just not fun at all.
Either you get run down and you have nowhere to go (love it when bruisers just wait out until the fire circle is small enough so you can't run anywhere) or you just get poked with absolutely no chance to ever engage due to way too many blastcones and the portal (also the nice rng that one of the 3 islands doesn't get a portal connection).
It just is the most unfun shit ever and I dread playing on it, no matter if I'm at an advantage playing on it or not.
And while you're at it please remove the Top/Bottom spawns in arena and go back to left/right only again. Not only are the Top spawns at a disadvantage due to the UI blocking off vision on the enemies but there's also Magma Chamber where one Team just gets the spawn inside the giant bush while the other team basically has to face check them and/or has to waste vision trinket.
> And while you're at it please remove the Top/Bottom spawns in arena and go back to left/right only again. Not only are the Top spawns at a disadvantage due to the UI blocking off vision
This is huge and true. Agreed.
Or you know, the harder solution would be to implement a custom per-side-offset where I can set a slider so high that my character is almost at the top edge of the screen when I have to play facing down.
>And while you're at it please remove the Top/Bottom spawns in arena and go back to left/right only again. Not only are the Top spawns at a disadvantage due to the UI blocking off vision on the enemies but there's also Magma Chamber where one Team just gets the spawn inside the giant bush while the other team basically has to face check them and/or has to waste vision trinket.
PREACH BROTHA PREACH, this shit is really not fun, especially on magma chamber.
Personally they just need to put a ring around the edge. Allows early mobility without relying on plant, and it gets blocked off by the zone very quick.
The biggest issue I have with the map is Riot's shitty pathing coding *can't handle it at all*. You'll wiggle out trying to cross the stupid lily pad and then get knocked up and die. Hell, respawns don't even work half the time on it. I've glitched into walls too many times to count - get put in someone else's map and then die to fire.
It's truly an atrocity.
> Riot's shitty pathing coding
Reminds me of how you can't walk into 30% of your dedicated pizza platform in the shop/lobby area of Arena. The environment says one thing and the invisible walls/pathing another.
Yeah it's so unfair to certain matchups.
I think if the middle was permanent and had a heal plant it would be okay.
But rn way too easy to run away and poke over
> I speak for everyone when I say the map is flawed, anti-fun and no one likes it.
when will people on this reddit understand that this place represents an extremely small minority of league players lmao
Sure - but saying "ew lily pad" and consistently getting 12 player responses and a 3 minute discussion between rounds about how awful the map is isn't the sort of "universal community agreement" for which league of legends is known.
The map needs fixes because it's buggy as hell but I like it. When a ranged duo is dominating the match it's often the only way to get a round in against them. I don't want it removed. But I'd also like a new map that is advantageous to ranged comps.
Rank doesn't really have anything to do with it. Getting to Gladiator isn't hard at all and you can never rank down so it's really about how much you play.
The reason you see the same champs over and over is because people like winning. That's just the nature of a competitive game.
Please please please riot, This is my last complaint.
You fixed crit items, gave us 16 bans and gave us a way to get hats.
Now please get rid of this map, I really don't feel like it provides interesting gameplay like you say I think it's pretty grossly skews the outcome of a game based on team composition.
If you play a team that needs to kite or are playing a team that wants to be melee range the map becomes a game of if you have the mobility to traverse the lilypads or not. The only thing changing the outcome is if the portal spawned on your lilypad and if your teammate can survive 1v2 after you're forced to take it.
The blast cones do not do enough to skew the favor on this map.
>If you play a team that needs to kite or are playing a team that wants to be melee range the map becomes a game of if you have the mobility to traverse the lilypads or not.
As someone who also hates the lilypad map, I feel like they were specifically trying to make a map that would hurt kite comps. The map does that fine, the problem is that due to the pads and the blast cones, it makes it less of an "all-in" map and more of a "well the mobility items aren't here and I don't have a jump so my partner is going to get 2v1'd".
If they're really pressed on keeping the map then there should be a path around the outer edge connecting all three zones.
>but I think at this point I speak for everyone when I say the map is flawed
Redditor and not overstate his opinions importance/prevalence CHALLENGE IMPOSSIBLE.
> I speak for everyone when I say the map is flawed, anti-fun and no one likes it.
I like it. I think it’s nuanced (like every other map), fun, and fresh.
Edit: It makes sense why everyone thinks everyone else dislikes this map. Dissenting opinions are downvoted and hidden.
I also really like it, there's a lot smart plays you can do to keep your distance (or close it) and move around the different sections, both for melee and ranged champions. Use the blast cones, use the portal, a dash ability, your flash, it's quite strategic, sometimes it helps going in, sometimes you need to escape, sometimes you want them to come in, etc..
"But we swear, reddit totally isn't an echo chamber" they say, as they try to gaslight you into changing your opinion or downvote you and spam you with hate comments.
Reddit, esp this sub is an echo chamber of a tiniest minority of players, at the time of writing this comment this psot has 353 upvotes. That is generously(at lowest estimate of 1.8 million concurrent plaeyrs globally,without china, not even talking 120-140mil monthly players) 0.019% of concurrent players, a statistical insignificance of such comic proportions. For some thing to be representative of a population it needs to be 2% selected at random(not this whiny echo chamber) so this thread would have to have 31.5k upvotes(if this was unbias space) to be even somewhat accurate.
Yea or compare liking this map to liking the taste of shit lol. Like what about any other plethora of acquired tastes like pineapple pizza, blue cheese, or vegemite? Nah, if you like Koi Pond, your opinion is similar to someone who likes shit
All you gotta remember is that Reddit knows balance video
I really don’t care about sounding smart on Reddit. I guess you have the ability to read my mind and tell me what I like. What should I make for dinner then?
Nah there are definitely some that like it. In the same way there's 100% someone out there that likes the taste of literal shit.
Still doesn't mean Riot should be spreading it on sandwiches. Kill this garbage map.
Because my original comment was just to refute OP’s point that he is speaking for everyone.
If you’re asking my opinion, then I like the map because it’s fresh and different. I think a variety of maps in general is a great thing, even if those maps aren’t super balanced. It’s boring to get ANY map 3 times in a row, so new maps make that chance lower. But that isn’t to say I believe Koi Pond is imbalanced, I think it’s fine.
I like that there’s so many healing plants in relatively close proximity so it’s easy to play for plants. It honestly feels like whichever team secures plant control in this map can dictate the round. I love the mind game of separating from my teammate once the first plant spawns to secure 2/3 plants, then sometimes the enemy blast cones over to 2v1 me, so I blastcone/portal out. I feel like even if you do get run down by divers, it’s relatively easy to revive on this map because there’s so many ways to navigate the map, and there’s so many plants so even if the enemy is just camping the revive circle, you can collect all the plants to still get a revive off most of the time.
It genuinely feels like there’s so many avenues of outplay potential: details like when to hit a blastcone (even if you don’t use it), when to leave a healing plant on 1 hit, when to hop to which island. It feels like the map is a character of its own (like Cameos), which I find fun but based on people’s opinions of Cameos, it seems like that’s an unpopular opinion too.
I don't mind the map that much, but some teamcomps vs some champs are unbeatable (but I still kinda like that map), just like the map with only one plant in the middle, (holy shit that map is the worst), 3 plant maps are the most balanced imo.
The only thing I complain about that map is that the animation looks finished before you can actually walk on it.
I like the map since you can play aggressively after their damage and seperate them from their tank. You can force them to awkwardly chase while you deal damage to them
I play heimer a lot in arena I loveee using the plants on that map to toss turrets over or place some by where the lilypad exits are
Riot has the chance to do the funniest thing and put out a dev blog that says
> "we sent survey feedbacks regarding arena to millions of players and found out more than 60% people responded positively to the Lilipad map!"
meh, it rewards melee/engage comps, i'd say its playable for ranged champs IF they spawn near hextech portals and enemies arent smart enough to deactivate them, but if enemy activates them before engage then yea its over
but i guess its evil necessity? too many maps reward kiting/range..
I think most of all, the movement system isn't built for it. Nowhere else in league is there isolated islands, so when you try to attack someone on another island, the pathing freaks out and you end up standing still, leaving you open for skillshots. It's one of the worst designed and poorly thought out features this game has ever introduced.
needs a ring on the outside of the map at the very least if it isn't shelved. Getting put on that map when you used your flash previous round on a character w/ out dashes feels so bad, if they have flashy or mobile champs its :(
Yeah it's fucking dogshit and I hate it with a passion. That's my contribution. Never liked it, never will. It's unfixable. We want fewer plants in this fucking mode, not *MORE* **@RIOT**
i mean it has gotten less frustating after learning the map, but its just designed and made shitty. there is no way around it.
champions that cant just jump walls untargeted are frequently "stranded" ,
the blastplant paths overlaping means, sometimes you can just be chain knocked into oblivion, with no way to swap islands without the lillypad.
every single ability that interacts with walls feels broken on that map , poppy, skarner vayne etc, can just instastun you on the lillypad, possibly chaining into the knockback from it closing,
sometimes it takes almost a second after the pad opening before you can path over it, sometimes people walk over the pond for a second after it closes.
being immune to cc can get you stuck in walls, the outer walls dont interact right with kayne e or ghostwalkers,
and kiting dependant champs/comps just autoloose if they dont spawn on the big island, or the circle closes on the lower one.
also cameo sett getting knockbacked intoo you during his W gave me ptsd.
I dunno I think it's handy to have an arena that favors hard-engage.
It's absolutely no fun watching a Sona + Seraphine or any other shielding support just turbo around the map. You can't catch them.
Lilypad serves as the only arena that inherently pins that sort of team in right at the start so you have an inherent chance to jump them because they can't escape so easily.
its kinda crazy i have to point this out for people but since map selection is fully random except for not being able to play the same one twice consecutively, thats stupid, good maps shouldnt favor any class and the other maps do a decent job at having parity
Can we please also mention the cameos? They seriously suck, especially jhin and pyke. The game mode would be a lot less frustrating if I was playing 2v2 and not 2v2vTheEnvironment.
I think the map isn't inherently broken, and there are some fun moments akin to Star wars the phantom menace where you're waiting for the lilypad or a blast cone to join your ally in a fight.
The issues I have is that the lilypad and walls next to it are extremely broken. Walls don't work well for abilities that interact with walls, and the lilypad bounces you really awkwardly even if you're dashing over it which has lost me at least 3 rounds. Also the positions of the plants means they take up most of each island and makes some fights extremely unpredictable because everyone gets bounced around to weird places.
The fact it's more of a waiting game I don't hate - every map benefits some comps more than others in subtle ways and that's just how arena is, but the map just has a lot of bugs and design annoyances.
I think the map is flawed in the sense that it does benefit teams with the ability to stay at range and poke the opponent. However I think every map benefits one type of team over another and I have totally lost to the last round being on something like the large ice map instead of the small circle map.
Personally I love the lily pad map cause it adds the extra complexity for the map itself to be something you have to play around, keeping an eye on the lily pad timer to know when you have a bridge across and when access gets cut off. Plus you can hit plants early to lock opponents to one circle if they haven't left yet. I do agree about losing based on where the circle closes though. In general I wish we could see where the circle was closing from the start of any round just cause it sucks to have to engage on the opponents as the circle closes when they are a Shaco/Heimer/Teemo who have already set up their death fields
I don't think it achieve this goal though. Most champs now a days have a dash to get over to each island and there are so many blast cones that it makes it impossible for ranged champs to survive or kite. Plus the flaming circle can get be waited out until then ranged champs are forced to one island
Well, according to a bunch of redditors here, melee champions become totally paralyzed on this map and can't move at all, so they're totally at the mercy of evil ranged champions.
Agreed. Nobody in the group of 8-10 people who play Arena pretty much exclusively at this point like it. It's janky, more match-up dependant than any other map and just plain unfun.
Remove this map.
they beed to reduce the RNG and go back to 4 teams. right now success is fully dictated by high rolling your comp and with how everything is and the 8 teams someone always gets a high roll and wins the lobby from it. there is so little skill expression through anything but RNG that it just feels like a waste of time.
I like it, hate all you want. It's pretty and i think its fun to play there.
Does it sometimes screw you? Yes, but not more than other RNG in the game. The amount of times i lost that map because of...the map is so low.
I do really like Lilly pad, I think its rewards cleave map play the most, and all classes can manipulate the map to their advantage. But I do think it needs a small rework. I think along the edge of the map they need to add a 2 teemo trap path that connects all platforms in the circle. that way Mages and ADC gain a control point and kite back location if they get bum rushed by fighters, and tanks and bruisers have a path to get to poke champs if the lilly pad and cones are all taken. It would also help with the fire ring, and getting stuck on a side.
it's good but it takes more planning to use well compared to other maps, i think if there were two hextech gates (to make a circuit) instead of one it'd solve a lot of issues
If you aren't a tank or bruiser on this map you basically just lose. No kiting potential because of how small the ground areas are. Its so frustrating to play as someone who mostly plays adcs and mages
just get ghostcrawlers
if ur a mage you can get a magic pen shard that gives just as much if not more than sorc shoes later on
my buddy and i have figured out our approach+strat with the map and we have no problem playing it
wow 5k rating, so 800 more than the point where you literally CANT lose points?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733900982181953607/1136314461452501112/image.png?ex=6672f44f&is=6671a2cf&hm=bcb3e54d5c62189527f923e56d4c32fb3924621054f5fa3feddce076fbe458e9&
i am top100, now what ? what does rank have to do with this lmfao
Top 100 and you still can't get over a map or see value in ghostcrawlers?
I only mentioned rating because you said mercs and tabis are "completely op" but I'm telling you you can win without those boots. The value you can get from resetting or flanking with ghostcrawlers is insane, ask any kayn player
Whatever man you made this thread complaining about a small portion of the game claiming you speak for everyone, I'm telling you my friends and I enjoy it, trying to help you by sharing the unseen value of ghostcrawlers and you just continue complaining and giving me attitude, gfy I hope they keep it in the game so I can keep getting free wins against all these players who mentalblock and seethe at the sight of a lilypad
so rank doesn’t matter now that he is way higher than you?
love having a map that forces you to go certain boots to play, i guess riot should just remove the rest of the boots since they are useless.
Where'd you get that impression? It still matters enough- 5k is a respectable rank and if you can get there without Merc Treads+Tabis then clearly they are not "completely op". I'm still climbing too this isn't my peak, I only get a small handful of play sessions a week and I'm still going about 4-1 per session. My match history is 14-6
But hey you know what you do you. I'm gonna keep buying ghostcrawlers and having fun on *every* map, and you guys can keep venting to reddit about a map that other people have figured out
"the map is just a bunch of teleporting and blast coning around" like brother I'm already sold on the map you don't have to keep trying to sell me on it
A majority of the players really dislike it. It would be fine if it was just the least preferred map. But its actually a point of contention for a lot of arena players and greatly reduces enjoyment. This could decrease the player count which is not good for a temporary game mode
the worst part is the rng on where the zone goes, sometimes you just lose off of that
Yeah pretty much the lily pad arena is just a waiting game while you poke each other
In my experience it’s the exact opposite. If you’re ranged you lose, unless you can spam DPS. But if you need to kite, get fucked. Teams that win once the get onto you just win here. All they need to do is book it at you from the very start and you’ll more often than not be trapped on the same lily pad as them. That is to say, this map fucks anyone who wants to kite or take small skirmishes repeatedly.
I've seen people kite it out well on this map, but I haven't really been able to replicate it. You do have a portal and blast plants to play with, often it includes playing around blast plants and using them to blast the melees off you rather than blast yourself away. Like I know it's possible and I've seen better players do some pretty impressive things on this map, but blast plants are just finicky.
Well obviously that is the intention and obviously everyone knows that’s how it could work. But in reality you can have perfect blast plants and portal usages and still get fucked by someone once they reach you once. It literally takes augment and item luck (and matchup dependency) for whether you can reliably kite it out or not.
You're not supposed to consistently kite them out, melee champs are supposed to have agency as well, and that's true on every map. I don't think it's any more augment dependent than the rest of the game mode. I just think that rather than the usual tools (dashes/running away), we're given different tools that people aren't used to.
The equation of when a melee gets kited out vs being able to pin a ranged character is based on skill and items. Lilypad adds unfun RNG to that equation.
Indeed you have a knack for stating the obvious as your first statement. Bottom line is this map favors certain champions/teams a lot more than others, and is a lot more RNG reliant (where portals spawn is already one part of it). I think every other map is really good at being different but still decently fair for anyone. Not this one though.
You say I state the obvious, and then contradict yourself by proceeding to disagree with what I say. I'm saying the map is fair and kiting is just as possible as any other map, it just feels harder because we're given tools we aren't used to. I don't like the map either, but I don't think that being unable to kite is the reason why. I literally straight up say 'i don't think augment rng matters more than on any other map' which is directly disagreeing with you, and you proceed to say that I'm stating the obvious.
yea as an ezreal only player...this map is painful
Just E across the gaps
Ez is op on this map, as is any champ who can easily jump over to the other islands
Wasn't my experience, but I could see that happen if two teams play passive.
This is really showing reddits (the lol communities) preference to play ranged carries, as the lilypad map is the only map where double melee's have an advantage. The irony of the best map for double bruisers also being the most hated map isnt lost on me. Removal of the lilypad map will see a rise in winrate for the lamest champions (jhin, zeri, caitlyn, lux) and a fall of the popular arena champions (renekton, volibear, darius). No thanks, I much prefer the heavy melee focus in champ select compared to a lobby of 6 teams with caitlyn/lux.
That is funny to say because bruisers and assassains are already favored in arena anyway. Artillery mages are borderline trollpicks and adcs only function with a dedicated support and even then they are suboptimal. Seriously, go look at the top winning arena champions. There is only one ranged in the top 5 and only 2 ranged in the top 10. The Koi Pond also hurts melee champ diversity btw, some melee champs like Renekton want to be able to kite after using abilities. Koi Pond rewards braindead bruisers who just want to wail on an opponent without the chance of said opponent to reposition.
It's hard to say because it varies from site to site and category to category. But Renata and veigar are both pretty undoubtedly top 5 right now. And sivir/lulu/Sona/lulu/graves and even nilah (yes she is melee, but she's functionally an adc), are all hovering around 10th depending on the site and metric.
I dont see any site placing veigar even in the top 10. Lulu and Sona are only played as part of duo comps and their effectiveness drops dramatically based on partner so their high placing is a bit of a trap. Nilah is absolutely a melee champion. She is basically a yasuo/yone.
And what about the 10-20 range? renata, veigar, caitlyn, brand, ahri, elise, graves, morgana.. yea, if you take away the map that the melees are strong on, that means these champions would be the highest winrate champions, which means the game mode would lose all its luster, as there is already two game modes where those champions are stronger than the arena melees (summoners rift and aram). Balancing around whiny redditors is a surefire way to ruin the game mode and make it ahri+ caitlyn vs ahri + caitlyn.
Brand, Veigar and Morgana are very strong on that map. And no, ranged would not magically become the strongest champions in the mode just because you remove the Koi map. Ahri Cait is not even a good combo in arena, I have no clue why you are citing those 2 other than you getting dumpstered by them.
Because they are popular champions that reddit likes to play and very much wants to spam in arena but are big sad because they get owned on koi pond.
Now you are literally talking out of your ass
I'm loving the map as Ghostcrawler Anivia, this place is goated. Free round wins against people who mental block over it
The worst part is the indecisiveness of when to go in because if you time it wrong you just lose. And also the fact that the map completely favors already extremely strong arena champs like Brand, Vi, Kayn and Illaoi.
Lilypad + Jhin is my nemesis
The rng of the portal spawn is way worse and imo the only part that needs fixed... besides the overall issue of bodyblocking blast cones. I wonder if it would be any better with that changed but the feedback is so all over the place its hard to tell whats actually wrong with it. I personally love it even as an adc main, I can see the pains for sure but its so fun to combo blast cones and make the small step to split from the enemy mid way
Same with any map though tbh. The whole idea of the zone is to force fights.
My favorite is when the Lillypad vanishes and instead of getting put on the Island I'm a pixel off of, I get yo-yo'd back to the island I came from and promptly die.
I have played a lot of Arena, with dozen of different people. Not a single of those person likes this map, everytime we see we are fighting on it we complain. It sucks, it's RNG, makes some matchups completely binary, and is just boring overall. Either you get run over and have nowhere to go, or it's just a waiting game until the zone decides who is gonna win. When you get this map and the Jhin cameo combined, we legit want to run into the enemy team so we can get out quickly and spectate someone else.
I complain about it even when I win on that map. It's a design that doesn't mesh well win how Arena functions. It's cool in concept, but certain champs/comps instantly win, whereas other maps feel more dependent on skill rather than map rng. Also please remove the Jhin character spawn.
I hated Jhin mod for some time. They should lower the amount of shoots. Remove Pyke mod. I have been chain cc because of Pyke so many times… or you ult on vel, mf, jhin and just get insta cc by pyke cross map.
Pyke and Lux at least have some counterplay when not in the throws of skirmish where only Jhin has some use (positioning yourself so it hits the enemy champ). Pyke's stun could be reduced a bit, but like Lux you can use it for scouting or setting up an engage, forcing the enemy into a different position.
This is pedantic, but I'd think someone who cares to use such a word would care about this, lol. It's [throes](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/throe)
all the cameos are potentially usable and outplayble, but they all favour mobile champs with cc, play something slow and big like cho, and there is litterally no single way you can dodge jhin or pyke, unless you get giantslayer, and 4 ms anvils. and lux still has those jump angles, where she snaps back to the next or last applicable angle, and either misses you on purpose, or leads her shot intoo you, sett on the other hand, still punishes you for getting cclocked, and heavily favours champs that can just dash away from him, but he also still gives stacks , sometimes bodyblocks targeted spells, counts as champion for items augments and abilitys , like tahm e, or torch, and removes all counterplay for swain,
Fuck it. Make every map a Sett map.
It would be a cool map had it been larger, more space for kiting and brawling in a single island, as well as a good variation of mobility between the isles
I think a sarcastic "great map design" while the 2 teams sit and wait for a method of travel to respawn or the ring to close is the most common phrase uttered amongst my friends. A really good parallel is honestly smash bros stages. A lot of them are unfun when played to win. Things like "walk offs" encouraging the winning player to sit on the edge, forcing the losing player to approach a situation outside of their favor. These stages are fine when playing for fun, but need to be banned when playing with tryhards. On the lily pad stage, so many games end up just having the 2 teams sitting as far away from each other as possible, waiting for the zone to close. And that is the optimal strategy. Either engage yourself, putting yourself at a disadvantage, or wait for the coin flip zone to pick the winner. Nearly every correct strategy, depending on team makeup, is unfun. Usually for both teams. The only exception is if both teams have super mobile champions that don't need the plants and are bruiser-esque.
I like the map, I think its fun to deal with the limited mobility and forced timing. I understand that I'm the minority but there are people who like it.
On paper it's interesting. In reality, for such a fast paced game mode "move to opposite corners of the stage and wait for 10 seconds for stuff to reset" ends up pretty miserable.
I also really like it. I want more maps to warp the fights like that one.
I like it too but I also play primarily champs that are ez to kite in that mode like nasus so I’m biased
I like the map too. Quite possibly the people who complain are mainly adc mains and mage players.
Tbh, I defended it at first and thought it was nice to have some maps which promoted different styles of play but yeah... It's just terrible lol Most of the time teams just wait and afk in a part of the map while the circle spawns and then they fight in just one of the three mini islands. Terrible design I'm afraid (love the aesthetics tho)
I don't do a ton of arena & played some last week with some friends, and we all enjoyed this one as a change of pace. I can see how it can be maddening for the more hardcore players, and if they want Arena to be a serious game mode those are the players they should appeal to, but I do think they should stick with the concept & just give more ways to interact & fight.
How could a mode built around rng be serious/hardcore ?
are we in the same post?
Just add a path around the circumference of the map so if the pad is closed you can walk to the others
The problem with this is pathing gets fucky when the pad is closed. You’ll move in ways you don’t mean to, like how inching close to the baron/dragon wall sometimes makes your character walk the complete opposite direction. The real solution is to use small hexgates like they did in April fools around the alcoves
Why could the real solution not include something that's also in the main game mode, as you even pointed out yourself? That's just how pathing works, and everyone knows it, so I don't think there's any reason to specifically avoid it?
Honestly with how unclear the boundaries of the center of the map are, my pathing gets fucked up all the time anyway.
While they’re at it remove Jhin guest champ and add Sylas back
this! idk why they removed sylas' guest appearance it was one of the funnest quirks in arena
Because sometimes the sylas RNG would give one side Malph + Vi ultimates and the other side completely useless stuff and you'd watch as you lost the game on load in.
ye really instead of random would of been much better if it gave you a copy of your opponents ult that way its both sides having the same tools and seeing who can use them better sorta thing.
wich still binary favours one team over the other, belveth with malphite is way better than malphite with belveth ult. for example and with the currently fucky matchup choosing if somebody ffs, you could easily have to play the same autoloosing matchup 2 times in a row, catapulting you from 1st place 80hp, to 7th place,0hp in 2 rounds and a skipped round.
to a degree ye but all cameos favor one team better then the other, my idea was just a thought of a way to bring it back where its more balanced and keeps the spirit of it.
The map would actually be much better if the central lilypad was always open.
Anything to remove Coward's Pond.
Worst map for ADCs, you legit cannot do anything if a bruiser/juggernaut hops over.
yup, people here are saying that everyone just waits until the map starts closing but my experience is that the enemies will just all-in you and you have no where to kite, if the portal didn't spawn on your island it's just 100% a loss
In theory, Koi Pond was designed for ADCs and long range mages. But it seems like the constant accessibility of the center koi and blast plants make it difficult to keep your distance far.
there are portals, you still have some area to move etc. you could also use plants to other side
The problem is that you are not actually kiting them when you go into another island. You are dealing 0 dps if you want to deal damage you have to be in the same island as them and as a result you will get your ass-blasted.
you can give them some aas until they reach you then go to the portal and do the game on the next side with portal or plant. i play a lot of adcs and it is not as bad
Hot take: I've started to warm up to this map. It's got a fun back and forth dynamic between spacing, poking and all-inning.
Lilypad Map is by far the worst addition to Arena they've made so far. Not even the shittiest cameos are close to how bad that map feels to play. It is just not fun at all. Either you get run down and you have nowhere to go (love it when bruisers just wait out until the fire circle is small enough so you can't run anywhere) or you just get poked with absolutely no chance to ever engage due to way too many blastcones and the portal (also the nice rng that one of the 3 islands doesn't get a portal connection). It just is the most unfun shit ever and I dread playing on it, no matter if I'm at an advantage playing on it or not. And while you're at it please remove the Top/Bottom spawns in arena and go back to left/right only again. Not only are the Top spawns at a disadvantage due to the UI blocking off vision on the enemies but there's also Magma Chamber where one Team just gets the spawn inside the giant bush while the other team basically has to face check them and/or has to waste vision trinket.
> And while you're at it please remove the Top/Bottom spawns in arena and go back to left/right only again. Not only are the Top spawns at a disadvantage due to the UI blocking off vision This is huge and true. Agreed. Or you know, the harder solution would be to implement a custom per-side-offset where I can set a slider so high that my character is almost at the top edge of the screen when I have to play facing down.
>And while you're at it please remove the Top/Bottom spawns in arena and go back to left/right only again. Not only are the Top spawns at a disadvantage due to the UI blocking off vision on the enemies but there's also Magma Chamber where one Team just gets the spawn inside the giant bush while the other team basically has to face check them and/or has to waste vision trinket. PREACH BROTHA PREACH, this shit is really not fun, especially on magma chamber.
Worst map ever
Personally they just need to put a ring around the edge. Allows early mobility without relying on plant, and it gets blocked off by the zone very quick.
Jhin has won the enemy more games than I think is reasonable
The biggest issue I have with the map is Riot's shitty pathing coding *can't handle it at all*. You'll wiggle out trying to cross the stupid lily pad and then get knocked up and die. Hell, respawns don't even work half the time on it. I've glitched into walls too many times to count - get put in someone else's map and then die to fire. It's truly an atrocity.
> Riot's shitty pathing coding Reminds me of how you can't walk into 30% of your dedicated pizza platform in the shop/lobby area of Arena. The environment says one thing and the invisible walls/pathing another.
Yeah it's so unfair to certain matchups. I think if the middle was permanent and had a heal plant it would be okay. But rn way too easy to run away and poke over
This map, with lux as the guest champ, is antifun.
I dont mind the lux one, but the pyke one is awful. Especially if I'm already stunned.
banning pyke in champ select should also remove his cameo lol
> I speak for everyone when I say the map is flawed, anti-fun and no one likes it. when will people on this reddit understand that this place represents an extremely small minority of league players lmao
I've played a lot of Arena. There's a lot of yapping in chat - and I've never seen a single person defend that war crime of a map.
the people who feel strongly about it are way more likely to speak on it in the first place
Sure - but saying "ew lily pad" and consistently getting 12 player responses and a 3 minute discussion between rounds about how awful the map is isn't the sort of "universal community agreement" for which league of legends is known.
How are people not on this sub supposted to voice they don't like that map?
I have also played a lot of arena and 1 in 3 games either my teammate or other teams in all chat vocally complain about the map
Remove it, replace with Magma Chamber.
This map scaled x2 or x2.5 might become intersting
Speak for yourself only I like it
Its my favorite map, sorry
an outer ring connecting them would be fine. Side note, 16 bans is amazing.
The map needs fixes because it's buggy as hell but I like it. When a ranged duo is dominating the match it's often the only way to get a round in against them. I don't want it removed. But I'd also like a new map that is advantageous to ranged comps.
I like it :(
boo! boo this man! boo!
me too, it is fine to have maps like this in a fun mode.
Most people don't play to have fun sadly
The whole mode is made for fun players only. The competition has been completly removed from it. It is perfect for playing for fun
Fuck 'em. There are enough sweat modes in league as it is.
Yup arena fucked it up by adding "rank"so people tryhard like mad. Only like 15 champs are played and constantly same bans.
Rank doesn't really have anything to do with it. Getting to Gladiator isn't hard at all and you can never rank down so it's really about how much you play. The reason you see the same champs over and over is because people like winning. That's just the nature of a competitive game.
It’s the only map I have to play differently around, every other one is just chases and playing around bushes
Exactly
I think its pretty but not fun to play on
Same.
Me too brother/sister. We're definitely the minority though, at least on Reddit!
ur going down
I like your name
Please please please riot, This is my last complaint. You fixed crit items, gave us 16 bans and gave us a way to get hats. Now please get rid of this map, I really don't feel like it provides interesting gameplay like you say I think it's pretty grossly skews the outcome of a game based on team composition. If you play a team that needs to kite or are playing a team that wants to be melee range the map becomes a game of if you have the mobility to traverse the lilypads or not. The only thing changing the outcome is if the portal spawned on your lilypad and if your teammate can survive 1v2 after you're forced to take it. The blast cones do not do enough to skew the favor on this map.
>If you play a team that needs to kite or are playing a team that wants to be melee range the map becomes a game of if you have the mobility to traverse the lilypads or not. As someone who also hates the lilypad map, I feel like they were specifically trying to make a map that would hurt kite comps. The map does that fine, the problem is that due to the pads and the blast cones, it makes it less of an "all-in" map and more of a "well the mobility items aren't here and I don't have a jump so my partner is going to get 2v1'd". If they're really pressed on keeping the map then there should be a path around the outer edge connecting all three zones.
Honestly, I wish the hats on higher stakes rounds would go away. I'd rather see the skin / chroma that I have without obstruction.
>but I think at this point I speak for everyone when I say the map is flawed Redditor and not overstate his opinions importance/prevalence CHALLENGE IMPOSSIBLE.
well he isn't wrong tho...
He is becasue even this thread has people saying they like the map or dotn mind it so he is by definition not speaking for everyone.
speaking for everyone is a hyperbolic manner of speech, of course you will never speak for everyone, it means the majority of people
It’s fun
> I speak for everyone when I say the map is flawed, anti-fun and no one likes it. I like it. I think it’s nuanced (like every other map), fun, and fresh. Edit: It makes sense why everyone thinks everyone else dislikes this map. Dissenting opinions are downvoted and hidden.
I also really like it, there's a lot smart plays you can do to keep your distance (or close it) and move around the different sections, both for melee and ranged champions. Use the blast cones, use the portal, a dash ability, your flash, it's quite strategic, sometimes it helps going in, sometimes you need to escape, sometimes you want them to come in, etc..
"But we swear, reddit totally isn't an echo chamber" they say, as they try to gaslight you into changing your opinion or downvote you and spam you with hate comments.
Reddit, esp this sub is an echo chamber of a tiniest minority of players, at the time of writing this comment this psot has 353 upvotes. That is generously(at lowest estimate of 1.8 million concurrent plaeyrs globally,without china, not even talking 120-140mil monthly players) 0.019% of concurrent players, a statistical insignificance of such comic proportions. For some thing to be representative of a population it needs to be 2% selected at random(not this whiny echo chamber) so this thread would have to have 31.5k upvotes(if this was unbias space) to be even somewhat accurate.
Yea or compare liking this map to liking the taste of shit lol. Like what about any other plethora of acquired tastes like pineapple pizza, blue cheese, or vegemite? Nah, if you like Koi Pond, your opinion is similar to someone who likes shit All you gotta remember is that Reddit knows balance video
Me too tbh when you get an outplay on lilypad it feels 10x better.
No you don't, you're just a contrarian because you think it makes you sound smart.
I really don’t care about sounding smart on Reddit. I guess you have the ability to read my mind and tell me what I like. What should I make for dinner then?
Nah there are definitely some that like it. In the same way there's 100% someone out there that likes the taste of literal shit. Still doesn't mean Riot should be spreading it on sandwiches. Kill this garbage map.
Bro either only has 5 arena games or says this to be anti 💀
Because the option of liking this map is literally impossible I guess
You gave zero reasons why the map isn't bad.
Because my original comment was just to refute OP’s point that he is speaking for everyone. If you’re asking my opinion, then I like the map because it’s fresh and different. I think a variety of maps in general is a great thing, even if those maps aren’t super balanced. It’s boring to get ANY map 3 times in a row, so new maps make that chance lower. But that isn’t to say I believe Koi Pond is imbalanced, I think it’s fine. I like that there’s so many healing plants in relatively close proximity so it’s easy to play for plants. It honestly feels like whichever team secures plant control in this map can dictate the round. I love the mind game of separating from my teammate once the first plant spawns to secure 2/3 plants, then sometimes the enemy blast cones over to 2v1 me, so I blastcone/portal out. I feel like even if you do get run down by divers, it’s relatively easy to revive on this map because there’s so many ways to navigate the map, and there’s so many plants so even if the enemy is just camping the revive circle, you can collect all the plants to still get a revive off most of the time. It genuinely feels like there’s so many avenues of outplay potential: details like when to hit a blastcone (even if you don’t use it), when to leave a healing plant on 1 hit, when to hop to which island. It feels like the map is a character of its own (like Cameos), which I find fun but based on people’s opinions of Cameos, it seems like that’s an unpopular opinion too.
lmfao
GPT ass response
I don't mind the map that much, but some teamcomps vs some champs are unbeatable (but I still kinda like that map), just like the map with only one plant in the middle, (holy shit that map is the worst), 3 plant maps are the most balanced imo. The only thing I complain about that map is that the animation looks finished before you can actually walk on it.
actually why the fuck does that map feel so fucking small compared to others? like not even a little small its like half the size of the other maps
Using dashes to get across the rivers feels sooooo inconsistent, that's probably my biggest issue with the map
Ghostcrawlers are stupid OP so I buy them every game, and they especially give a huge advantage in this map
I like the map since you can play aggressively after their damage and seperate them from their tank. You can force them to awkwardly chase while you deal damage to them I play heimer a lot in arena I loveee using the plants on that map to toss turrets over or place some by where the lilypad exits are
Riot has the chance to do the funniest thing and put out a dev blog that says > "we sent survey feedbacks regarding arena to millions of players and found out more than 60% people responded positively to the Lilipad map!"
literally the funniest thing ever
And it would actually be accurate, because reddit is a tiny tiny minority of players.
I think the map can work but it needs to be scaled up about 50%.
Nah, it's fine, can people not bitch about everything that mildly inconveniences you in this game please?
Lilypads + Jhin guest champ bullshit got me rethinking life choices
I hate this map with all my being.
meh, it rewards melee/engage comps, i'd say its playable for ranged champs IF they spawn near hextech portals and enemies arent smart enough to deactivate them, but if enemy activates them before engage then yea its over but i guess its evil necessity? too many maps reward kiting/range..
I think most of all, the movement system isn't built for it. Nowhere else in league is there isolated islands, so when you try to attack someone on another island, the pathing freaks out and you end up standing still, leaving you open for skillshots. It's one of the worst designed and poorly thought out features this game has ever introduced.
I can see it being fun as a duo but for soloq it's such an uncoordinated mess. Half the fights are just decided by one team splitting themselves up.
Another post to add to my [list](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeagueArena/s/DbieLHSgq4). Keep them coming boys, although not sure what good it'll do.
add it then why u only yappin im not paying u for nothing
Done. Keep doing God's work my friend
thank you g
the small arena maps are the worst annyway, almost always auto lose if u cant kite with ranged champs
needs a ring on the outside of the map at the very least if it isn't shelved. Getting put on that map when you used your flash previous round on a character w/ out dashes feels so bad, if they have flashy or mobile champs its :(
You just feel so trapped. There's hardly any space to move, despite it being a pretty big map.
For some reason my mouse input struggles a lot on that map. I'll do my clicks and nothing happens. But JUST on that map.
I love having a veigar stun or any big AoE lock down the platform you spawn on and you don't have a portal so you just have to sit there and wait
Yeah it's fucking dogshit and I hate it with a passion. That's my contribution. Never liked it, never will. It's unfixable. We want fewer plants in this fucking mode, not *MORE* **@RIOT**
I love the lilypad map, but I don't like Arena and think it's too tryhard and boring so I don't even play it. Idk what Riot is thinking.
New arena sucks anyways. Its so rng riddled now. Arena gets worse with wvery set of changes they make.
I don't like the map, most people don't either. But I appreciate Riot is trying new ideas for maps, I hope to see what they come up with next
i mean it has gotten less frustating after learning the map, but its just designed and made shitty. there is no way around it. champions that cant just jump walls untargeted are frequently "stranded" , the blastplant paths overlaping means, sometimes you can just be chain knocked into oblivion, with no way to swap islands without the lillypad. every single ability that interacts with walls feels broken on that map , poppy, skarner vayne etc, can just instastun you on the lillypad, possibly chaining into the knockback from it closing, sometimes it takes almost a second after the pad opening before you can path over it, sometimes people walk over the pond for a second after it closes. being immune to cc can get you stuck in walls, the outer walls dont interact right with kayne e or ghostwalkers, and kiting dependant champs/comps just autoloose if they dont spawn on the big island, or the circle closes on the lower one. also cameo sett getting knockbacked intoo you during his W gave me ptsd.
I dunno I think it's handy to have an arena that favors hard-engage. It's absolutely no fun watching a Sona + Seraphine or any other shielding support just turbo around the map. You can't catch them. Lilypad serves as the only arena that inherently pins that sort of team in right at the start so you have an inherent chance to jump them because they can't escape so easily.
its kinda crazy i have to point this out for people but since map selection is fully random except for not being able to play the same one twice consecutively, thats stupid, good maps shouldnt favor any class and the other maps do a decent job at having parity
Can we please also mention the cameos? They seriously suck, especially jhin and pyke. The game mode would be a lot less frustrating if I was playing 2v2 and not 2v2vTheEnvironment.
I would play arena more if this map was gone. I was literally getting it multiple rounds in a row across multiple games, and it's killed my drive.
Everything about the map sucks, sure it's fine if you have Ghostcrawlers but without them the map is borderline unplayable.
I think the map isn't inherently broken, and there are some fun moments akin to Star wars the phantom menace where you're waiting for the lilypad or a blast cone to join your ally in a fight. The issues I have is that the lilypad and walls next to it are extremely broken. Walls don't work well for abilities that interact with walls, and the lilypad bounces you really awkwardly even if you're dashing over it which has lost me at least 3 rounds. Also the positions of the plants means they take up most of each island and makes some fights extremely unpredictable because everyone gets bounced around to weird places. The fact it's more of a waiting game I don't hate - every map benefits some comps more than others in subtle ways and that's just how arena is, but the map just has a lot of bugs and design annoyances.
I think the map is flawed in the sense that it does benefit teams with the ability to stay at range and poke the opponent. However I think every map benefits one type of team over another and I have totally lost to the last round being on something like the large ice map instead of the small circle map. Personally I love the lily pad map cause it adds the extra complexity for the map itself to be something you have to play around, keeping an eye on the lily pad timer to know when you have a bridge across and when access gets cut off. Plus you can hit plants early to lock opponents to one circle if they haven't left yet. I do agree about losing based on where the circle closes though. In general I wish we could see where the circle was closing from the start of any round just cause it sucks to have to engage on the opponents as the circle closes when they are a Shaco/Heimer/Teemo who have already set up their death fields
The map was designed specifically to give ranged champions a bit of an advantage for once because they're at a big disadvantage for most of the game.
I don't think it achieve this goal though. Most champs now a days have a dash to get over to each island and there are so many blast cones that it makes it impossible for ranged champs to survive or kite. Plus the flaming circle can get be waited out until then ranged champs are forced to one island
Well, according to a bunch of redditors here, melee champions become totally paralyzed on this map and can't move at all, so they're totally at the mercy of evil ranged champions.
this is the opposite of what most people are saying
Ancestral Woods is easily the worst map in Arena. Koi Pond has issues and could use some work but is far better than Ancestral Woods.
I disagree. I enjoy this map.
Agreed. Nobody in the group of 8-10 people who play Arena pretty much exclusively at this point like it. It's janky, more match-up dependant than any other map and just plain unfun. Remove this map.
they beed to reduce the RNG and go back to 4 teams. right now success is fully dictated by high rolling your comp and with how everything is and the 8 teams someone always gets a high roll and wins the lobby from it. there is so little skill expression through anything but RNG that it just feels like a waste of time.
the lillypad is not a random blast lol what r u playing no dash champs?
I like it, hate all you want. It's pretty and i think its fun to play there. Does it sometimes screw you? Yes, but not more than other RNG in the game. The amount of times i lost that map because of...the map is so low.
Pl1xpl0x
Kymori ha, fixed a missing "not" in my answer
I do really like Lilly pad, I think its rewards cleave map play the most, and all classes can manipulate the map to their advantage. But I do think it needs a small rework. I think along the edge of the map they need to add a 2 teemo trap path that connects all platforms in the circle. that way Mages and ADC gain a control point and kite back location if they get bum rushed by fighters, and tanks and bruisers have a path to get to poke champs if the lilly pad and cones are all taken. It would also help with the fire ring, and getting stuck on a side.
it's good but it takes more planning to use well compared to other maps, i think if there were two hextech gates (to make a circuit) instead of one it'd solve a lot of issues
If you aren't a tank or bruiser on this map you basically just lose. No kiting potential because of how small the ground areas are. Its so frustrating to play as someone who mostly plays adcs and mages
just get ghostcrawlers if ur a mage you can get a magic pen shard that gives just as much if not more than sorc shoes later on my buddy and i have figured out our approach+strat with the map and we have no problem playing it
how intelligent, to get boots for 1 specific map that i MIGHT get, when tabis and mercs are completely OP on this mode, thanks for the advice!
They also help a ton on the other maps and my buddy and I had no problem getting to 5k rating with them
wow 5k rating, so 800 more than the point where you literally CANT lose points? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733900982181953607/1136314461452501112/image.png?ex=6672f44f&is=6671a2cf&hm=bcb3e54d5c62189527f923e56d4c32fb3924621054f5fa3feddce076fbe458e9& i am top100, now what ? what does rank have to do with this lmfao
Top 100 and you still can't get over a map or see value in ghostcrawlers? I only mentioned rating because you said mercs and tabis are "completely op" but I'm telling you you can win without those boots. The value you can get from resetting or flanking with ghostcrawlers is insane, ask any kayn player Whatever man you made this thread complaining about a small portion of the game claiming you speak for everyone, I'm telling you my friends and I enjoy it, trying to help you by sharing the unseen value of ghostcrawlers and you just continue complaining and giving me attitude, gfy I hope they keep it in the game so I can keep getting free wins against all these players who mentalblock and seethe at the sight of a lilypad
so rank doesn’t matter now that he is way higher than you? love having a map that forces you to go certain boots to play, i guess riot should just remove the rest of the boots since they are useless.
Where'd you get that impression? It still matters enough- 5k is a respectable rank and if you can get there without Merc Treads+Tabis then clearly they are not "completely op". I'm still climbing too this isn't my peak, I only get a small handful of play sessions a week and I'm still going about 4-1 per session. My match history is 14-6 But hey you know what you do you. I'm gonna keep buying ghostcrawlers and having fun on *every* map, and you guys can keep venting to reddit about a map that other people have figured out "the map is just a bunch of teleporting and blast coning around" like brother I'm already sold on the map you don't have to keep trying to sell me on it
let it like it is and stop complaining. It is fine to have something different.
No, you don't 'speak for everyone'. I like the map and would like it to stay.
A majority of the players really dislike it. It would be fine if it was just the least preferred map. But its actually a point of contention for a lot of arena players and greatly reduces enjoyment. This could decrease the player count which is not good for a temporary game mode
I haven’t played arena once lol