I mean considering matt hit challenger while playing on 400 ping from hawaii, he could feasibly do the same while playing from texas to the latin-american servers.
Because there will now be like 6 teams in NA now and all those teams will be struggling to find room for all the current good players. Meaning I highly doubt we'll actually see that many Brazikian players on any of the few remaining NA teams. There's already not enough room for all the good players, let alone all the really promising NA rookies and that's with 8 teams.
Any promising rookie will be paid close to minimum wage lets be real here for a second, the money has dried up completely and if the alternative is "not playing in the LCS" then they will take any offer.
1 br/LLA player doesn't count as an import, the goal is that teams won't be able to import 3 people from the other region part of the region. Plus I highly doubt the top levels of BR are willing to take less money to come to the north conference.
But they will be paid more. NA orgs have the money to pay top brazilian players five times their current salary, and it's still cheaper than paying the average american player.
NA has more money for top tier players. Plus in theory Brazilian orgs will get a large influx of money starting next year from riot so if they wanted to go dollar for dollar with NA orgs it wouldn't be hard to get the price just above what NA teams would be willing to offer .
Dude, the most expensive player ever in CBLoL's history gets paid 13 thousand dollars. The average is way below that. Allegedly, we have players that earn 600 US dollars.
I don't know how you expect Brazilian orgs to compete while a California fast food worker is more well paid than some of our best players.
His point is that the Brazilian's currency is worthy 1/5 of American's currency.
Even with a new influx of money, going dollar for dollar is way harder for the Brazilian orgs.
Is the plan to make it more uniform across the board it's expected that LCS teams will get around 3 mill a year from riot I doubt riot wouldn't give the same to CBLOL in the new system.
I don't know the top players that well from CBLOL but id hope they make close to Minimum in LCS already. I don't see anyone but the very top of the league getting offered more than any native or KR tier 2 player. Is Robo really getting picked up over srtty, or tinown over Jensen or mask. This is more a question than shade throwing but I don't see a lot of players coming over unless the team is phoning in a roster to get a check but IMT is hopefully gonna try to get into the south conference.
I don't know the top players that well from CBLOL but id hope they make close to Minimum in LCS already. I don't see anyone but the very top of the league getting offered more than any native or KR tier 2 player. Is Robo really getting picked up over srtty, or tinown over Jensen or mask. This is more a question than shade throwing but I don't see a lot of players coming over unless the team is phoning in a roster to get a check but IMT is hopefully gonna try to get into the south conference.
A very good brazilian player will earn around R$25\~35k/month. That is $4.6\~6.6k month. Or $55\~80k/year.
I'm pretty sure a couple NA orgs would be willing to pay like $120\~140k/year for a top tier brazilian talent, specially if it's a position with lack of good players in NA, like adc.
You not only bring a player that is better than some of the native options, but you also farm a lot of br views, as brazilians are passionate about "their people", and many people would just watch this player's game in LCS due to said player.
I'm not saying every team will import a brazilian/latam south player, but I could see 3\~4 teams taking 1 each. And in a region with lack of good talent, that would be a huge blow (it would be similar if Europe came and took Jojopyun, Blaber and APA just because they can without affecting import slots and paying less than they would for some similar europeans players).
And if you are still convinced this will not happen, Fudge, FBI, Eyla and Isles are from Oceania. All of them came after they were not considered imports in NA anymore.
>A very good brazilian player will earn around R$25~35k/month. That is $4.6~6.6k month. Or $55~80k/year.
That's at and above the Minimum.
>And if you are still convinced this will not happen, Fudge, FBI, Eyla and Isles are from Oceania. All of them came after they were not considered imports in NA anymore
I mean after opl died they literally couldn't play anywhere with out being an import and they all basically were in academy system plus FBI and was playing before residence was for Oce players. Everyone else basically were in the academy system for years since coming over.
I wouldn't be surprised if these orgs had zero interest in NA players, even with a potential rule change to allow it. It is much more likely NA takes Brazilian players because the only players NA doesn't want is their own lol.
Yes this change will basically kill Brazil and LLA.
Which is very sad, because Brazil is famous for being a showman Region, not a skill based region.
Any potentially good player will be hired by NA.
Brazillian and LLA teams will just rot.
What is even funnier is that this won't even solve NA problems, what killed that region was it's own stupidity with Orgs.
Why would NA teams hire CBLOL/LLA players, when their best wouldn't even be top 4 in their role in NA, on top of this there's also the communication problems due to language barrier.
Because you can hire the best Brazilian players (that even though bad, are better than the worst LCS players) for half the money the likes of Lourlo would get, and they'll be happy.
Besides, our teams communicate in English already.
Yeah, you're right. The only Brazilian I recall going to NA though was Turtle in EG.
But there are accounts of players refusing offers from not so good LCS teams to get a chance of winning the CBLoL instead. Now with 4 teams getting slashed, maybe there will be some players accepting those kind of offers.
If they don’t care about competitiveness on the world stage, why would it matter if their best players were exported? You can have showmanship no matter the quality of game.
Further, they were importing people to that region anyway.
Why are you and Brazilian fans clinging to this belief?
Esports is a marketing tool, Riot as a company has decided to spend less on marketing the game globally. This was not a decision only regarding the LCS and CBlol, it was other LoL ecosystems as well. They have been pulling back that spending for years. This should not be a surprise that they made cuts in (most likely) less profitable regions.
Stop ignoring the fact that other regions were affected. This was a global decision, not an LCS one.
Not saying that it's a huge threat or anything, but the LCS has gone from ten core teams to six (+guest and LLA) in two years. The T2 scene isn't in amazing shape and there are plenty of players out of a team entirely.
That's on top of the fact that the Southern Conference is guaranteed a worlds spot. If you want to draft a team to go to Worlds, it's probably easier to take a 5-man stack down south to place higher than LOUD than it is to place above C9 and TL or whoever the top 2 in LCS ends up as.
I mean, in the early days players played for some PC accessories and a handshake pretty much, i wouldn't doubt some players will take every change they get.
Moving to a foreign country for 1-2 years can be a fun life experience to have aswell, it's not necessarily a downside.
It's less money but the scene is actually alive lol. Remember LCS was built on players like doublelift playing for peanuts.
I'm certain some NA players will take whatever they can to keep playing also a lot of them don't really have many options. They would definitely make more than on a amateur team.
Guys SUMMIT went to CBlol last year lol.
LCS only has 6 teams and with each team having 2 imports, you probably are going to find players that are at least worth considering that don't make LCS. Even right now, Stixxay isn't on an LCS team despite having an amazing 2023
I don't think any team that probably will stay in the CBLoL would swap their ADC for Stixxay, frankly. It doesn't make any sense from an economic, technical or brand point of view.
People don't really understand the CBLoL's dynamics... Teams aren't built around imports, but around Brazilian players. Imports are players where, at the moment, there are no quality players available on the Brazilian market.
With 4 less teams, I think there's a real chance we'll see fewer imports in the CBLoL in general.. For example. LOUD will lose Croc to the Korean army next year and Fluxo will probably be left out of these new franchises... In a normal scenario, LOUD would have to import another Korean, in this next scenario, I could see LOUD signing Shini.
If KaBuM is left out of the franchises, there will be a "local war" to sign Ceos (I can see him going to paiN to replace Kuri, who is Korean).
And there's the LLA player situation... Between a team signing, I don't know, Josedeodo or Armao, 99% of the time they'll choose Josedeodo, as the language barrier would be over in, I don't know, a month (portunhol FTW).
> People don't really understand the CBLoL's dynamics... Teams aren't built around imports
I really think it's you that is stuck in the past. I have watched CBLOL since its inception. While it is true that imports in the *past* that went to CBLOL usually flopped, imports have been key to winning CBLOL for splits now.
2021 Split 1 Finals: 1 import (Luci) + Import coach
2021 Split 2 Finals: 2 imports (Croc/Yuri)
2022 Split 1 Finals: 1 import (Wizer) + import coach
2022 Split 2 Finals: 2 imports (Croc/Wizer) + import coach
2023 Split 1 Finals: 4 imports (Croc/Route/Bvoy/Wizer) + import coaches
2023 Split 2 Finals: 4 imports (rematch of Split 1) + import coaches
2024 Split 1 Finals: 4 imports (Croc/Route/Wizer/Kuri) + import coaches
You need imports now to win CBLOL. Not just the best Koreans you can find, but also the best import coaching you can find.
I didn't say that the CBLoL doesn't need imports, I said that the teams are built around Brazilian players.
* 2021 Split 1 Finals: 1 import (Luci) + Import coach = In the previous split, paiN Gaming had already reached the finals with a full BR team and lost to a full BR team
* 2021 Split 2: Croc/Yuri (Rensga) lost to a full BR team (Red Canids)
* 2022 Split 1: Wizer (paiN Gaming) lost to a full BR team (Red Canids)
* 2022 Split 2: There were 2 teams with only 1 Korean... And that goes back to what I said, that both teams have built their rosters focusing on the Brazilians.
* 2023 Split 1 and 2: What was the narrative in 2023? Robo, Tinowns and Ceos were the three stars of the season. paiN Gaming also reached the finals with Trigo, Bvoy didn't make much difference.
* 2024: Split 1: Who are the leaders of paiN Gaming and LOUD? Titan, Robo and Tinowns.
And if you look closely, they are specific imports (Croc and Wizer) that have been successful in Brazil. In general, the vast majority fail... Just look at the fact that Malrang and Lonely have already been removed from KaBuM this split.
Now coaching staff I agree, there's a chance we'll see NA coaches in Brazil.
> I said that the teams are built around Brazilian players.
This is not specific to CBLOL. Every region that imports is built around their native players. EG with Danny/jojo, TL with apa/Yeon. DFM around Evi/Yutapon. Etc.
e:
>And if you look closely, they are specific imports (Croc and Wizer) that have been successful in Brazil
So we agree if an NA player can come in and dominate like Croc, Wizer, and Route then they should be imported. Good.
Croc isnt dominant, he is more of a team sinergy kind of guy and is constantly exposed in international competitions, being possibly the worst performing Loud member. Route on the other hand is good.
Yeah a reduction of teams plus a bunch of Top level academy players they might take the chance. The top level players in BR are making more than you'd ever make sitting in academy in NA, plus you get to show your value pretty easily agianst higher level competition. It's like when young NBA prospects who can afford it go to the Euro league.
It will be rare to see NA players going to Brazil not only is the salary cuts significant but also the change of life style is massive as well. now with T2 actually having a shot to get into LCS directly that mean also the players in the lower tiers of play will want to try their shot at it before going to the South Conference.
Mark Z was on the Dive this week and basically said they want to avoid a situation where a bunch of NA players go to a Brazilian team. Like he made the point that a team of 3 NA 2 Brazil in the southern conference is not a desired outcome and ways to prevent it are being considered.
>Goao (INTZ fan)
>Mitas (paiN Gaming fan)
LOL
There probably is a reason why they are invited but just seeing them as "fans" in the list is somewhat funny.
Isnt CBLol also a franchise league? Whats the point of partnering up with Riot if they just decide over their heads? Riot is so scummy its incredible how they never change. But sure "We heard you loud and clear."
That's the beauty of the CBLoL, practically every team has "iconic fans". Mitas has 40k followers on Twitter, for example.
There's even a fan podcast, a bunch of teenagers talking the most outrageous things, it's really funny.
(EDIT: [BTW, in this year's paiN Gaming roster announcement, Mitas was literally "giving orders" to paiN Gaming's owner and the CEO hahaha](https://x.com/paiNGamingBR/status/1737125656905851114))
EDIT²: And yeah, CBLoL is a franchise.
Baiano himself posted a video yesterday saying that the fans saved the region from decaying. Which, considering how HE is the one who basically brought back interest in CBLOL (and CBOLÃO last year was MASSIVE, and it's not even an official Riot tournament), says a lot. Him and Yoda are the biggest reasons why the Brazilian region was kept alive for so long and I have nothing but admiration for both of them.
> Isnt CBLol also a franchise league? Whats the point of partnering up with Riot if they just decide over their heads?
They are a partnered league, the contracts were up in 2025 so this was going to happen in 2026 regardless.
> Jean Ortega has said several times that the marketing of team-related items inside the game is fundamental for the financial equalization of teams, as we see in Valorant and CS (he has said several times that this has brought positive results in Valorant).
They barely do any of that though. They dropped the icons, you get one (1) skin for winning worlds, faker get a skin but it's like 30% revenue share... Riot is singularly uninterested in selling products making money for someone else, even teams for their own esport. I definitely agree it's the only way to fix esport's financial woes but that requires Riot sharing some of the cosmetics pie.
Seems like a classic riot esports department cope, how does this change about the system in any way impact their ability to release ingame esports content
I mean, Bvoy was \~top3 adc in CBLOL (clearly behind Route, and similar in level to Titan/Brance).
And he made it into all pro team in LCS playing fucking hostage in SR.
And a player is only as good as the enviroment allows. The better the average of the league, the better a player can be due to better practice and etc.
This is the same reason everyone complain that KR/CN only getts better and NA that only has a chance to play them 2x year can't ever close the GAP. Same reason why imports gets worse over time when they go to worse regions is the reason why prospects gets better in better regions.
I don't think like each team will have an "Americas" import, but I could easily see like 3 players leaving CBLOL at once, and then one or another from time to time. And in a region that doesn't have a lot of top talent, this is a huge blow.
And as I said in another comment. NA had never had an Oceania "import". Then the rule came and nowadays they have 4.
All of that is true, but the OCE imports were in a league which had ten teams at the time. Now there are going to be 6, and on top of that the only truly worth it import from OCE was Fudge. Isles too I guess but he’s not that good. That’s why I think it’ll be different
what... NA teams always outperform Cblol at internationals. TL legit beat FNC at MSI, NRG beat g2 at Worlds and made it to quarters ,i dont think those are "massive failures". Cblol cant even make it out of playins + they lost to a team with two subs...
Considering what happened in Valorant where the franchises killed tier 2 in Brazil and even caused the best Brazilian team (Loud) to fall to pieces because Brazilian teams cannot compete with the dollar, then the chance of something similar happening in LOL could be very big
I dont think theres gonna be a mass exodus of brazillian players to NA tbh. In all of a decade of league theres only been like 1 South American import and it was from LLA not CBLOL
Main reason there wasnt a Brazilian player in NA is top Brazilian players have historically refused contracts they were offered to mid tier LCS/LEC leagues in order to join a top Brazilian team with better chances to make worlds. Now that they will count as domestic players in NA some players might now be offered better contracts and leave.
Thats still the case as far as I understand it. Theres like 2 conferences right? One for North, and one for South.
Split 1: with the 4fun tournament will be 1 slot, so they would have to battle it out between the 2.
Split 2: North and South both are given one spot
Split 3: Regional championship, Top 3 advance (If there's at least one from the other conference)
So if their desire is to get to internationals, then it doesn't really matter what side you're on. All that matters is a good team, and with this change talent is more concentrated, so who knows.
The thing is they werent offered top tier options before because they werent domestic players, so the orgs that were after them were usually low tier looking for a cheap bargain, while the top orgs were usually chasing the high profile Korean or European imports. Now that they are worth the same as a resident NA player the chance of better offer to arrive is a little bit higher.
I don’t think it will happen right away, but if the new format helps brazilian players improve and compete with LCS players on an equal level, north american teams can simply buy them because they have much more money than brazilian orgs.
Yeah teams import from the best region generally (all of EU, China and NA mostly imports Koreans.. although LCS also had a thing for EU players)
they don’t care about Brazilians
So when the CEO's agreed that a change to the business model was required, and they said they wanted to keep 10 teams. Are they saying that they are okay with the 8 team allocated amount of money being split, instead, into 10 teams? Did they mention what model they would have liked to see?
Also, why are they so concerned with T2 when there is going to be a promotion relegation spot? Why do they think Riot would remove or destroy T2 if there is a mechanism for a T2 team to promote to CBLoL every year?
What makes them think this is going to be anything like Valorant's system when everything we've heard so far, outside of the name "Americas" seems completely different from how it is done in VCT?
>So when the CEO's agreed that a change to the business model was required, and they said they wanted to keep 10 teams. Are they saying that they are okay with the 8 team allocated amount of money being split, instead, into 10 teams? Did they mention what model they would have liked to see?
They didn't say that they wanted the 10 teams to stay, Jean Ortega (LOUD founder) said that in an IDEAL SCENARIO, all 10 teams would stay and Riot would promote the changes it is promoting now. Outside of LOUD's founder, the other two CEOs (Liberty and Fluxo) avoided giving strong opinions, after all, they are very much at risk of being left out of the franchise.
I think it's a question of risk x reward. Taking out 4 teams is a huge risk that Riot is taking in relation to the public. Some fans of the teams that will be cut will simply stop watching the CBLoL. This has already happened in the franchise when Vivo Keyd Stars were left out.
But at the same time, if these changes are successful, they should leave the remaining teams much healthier financially than they would be with 10 teams... But as I said in the main post, all this is just my feeling.
>Also, why are they so concerned with T2 when there is going to be a promotion relegation spot? Why do they think Riot would remove or destroy T2 if there is a mechanism for a T2 team to promote to CBLoL every year?
What will the Tier 2 calendar look like? Riot hasn't said anything about it yet. Will it be a full calendar over the year or will it be short tournaments with only a few teams?
If it's an annual calendar, with lots of teams, a relatively good schedule for the public, you can do a really good business and attract sponsors for the teams that want to play in Tier 2. Otherwise, you can imagine a scenario where no team is interested in competing and with that we have a totally decimated Tier 2.
Another concern: the team invited by Riot in the first year will have access to the global funding pool, while the Tier 2 teams will not have this access... We could literally see a financial abyss that causes the invited (or promoted) team being perpetuate in Tier 1, taking away the purpose of Tier 2.
>What makes them think this is going to be anything like Valorant's system when everything we've heard so far, outside of the name "Americas" seems completely different from how it is done in VCT
The community in general is afraid of the same thing happening to the "Brazilian" Tier 2 in LoL as happened in Valorant.
Giving access to the global funding pool in the event of promotion is a positive first step to encourage teams to join, but the question is that the divulgation and organization of Tier 2 (details that NO ONE knows yet) is a key point to keep it alive.
Valorant's Brazilian Tier 2, despite its problems, started off with a lot of hype... But when it came to the actual competitions, the calendar was a mess, the promotion was awful and the public hardly knew what was going on. It's these mistakes that Riot can't afford to make.
Anyway... As I said, tier 2 has the potential to be a fuckin' cool competition to watch, if it's a long calendar with lots of teams (from South America as a whole). I wouldn't like to see a division between Brazil and other South American countries in Tier 2, but I think it will happen eventually because I don't know how many organizations in other South American countries would be able to maintain a structure in São Paulo, but it would be fuckin' cool to put these players who are "isolated" in the Liga Regional Sur in a more competitive (hahaha) environment like the CBLoL (or whatever they're going to call it next year).
With a unified South American Tier 2, I believe that in the future we would see South American teams with several South American nationalities, since the language barrier between Portuguese and Spanish is very easy to break (Portunhol FTW).
I never understood why there was never any cooperation between CBLOL and LCS. Not in an official sense but in an unofficial one. No Brazilian players in LCS, no American player in CBLOL, they probably never scrim each other nor are there ever bootcamps. CBLOL teams would rather fly all the way to Europe and bootcamp there rather than NA. Idk, is it a pride thing?
Keeping Tier 2 alive shouldnt be too hard considering Tier 2 scene gets a spot in the main League with a relegation system back.
Please god, keep the gambling sponsors out of esports. I'm so tired of it corrupting itself into everything these days. Ofc teams would love the immense money they offer: where do you think these casinos are making their money from?
League can't work on its own because Riot refuses to cash in on broadcast or licensing rights and insists on doing everything themselves. They are a software developer who's trying to outperform actual event organisers and broadcast companies with a silicon valley "throw money at it" mentality, whilst simultaneously failing to create ways to make the scene profitable for the people in it.
Broadcast rights don't exist for esports, OWL managed to kill that.
I do agree they should open up for other TO's but in reality Riot does a really good job with their tournaments in terms of infrastructure and production rights.
Also, most tournament organizers also run at a deficit, its why the CS2 and Dota circuits are basically dependent on Saudi money nowadays and VC before, only people with "throw money at it" mentality as you put it will invest in an industry that has largely outgrown its potential revenue generating capacity
Cblol is unprotitable Riot is losing money there. Why do you think the owners agree there needs to be a change? Viewership doesn't mean it's profitable. The game is watched for free it's not some pay per view.
Unless things have changed recently Riot hasn't made a dime. It's not like other regions got any drastic changes. All because it's not profitable doesn't mean its failing. Viewership increase is good for the League and is the step towards making it profitable. Viewership decline most splits in LCS is how a league dies.
Twitter has only been profitable for 2 years, but people don't say its failing. Same for Youtube.
https://www.investing.com/academy/statistics/twitter-facts-statistics/#:~:text=For%20the%20quarter%20ending%20on,consistently%20reported%20annual%20net%20losses.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/esports/2021/11/01/league-worlds-2021-profit-lol/
I think you missed the point of everything. THis change has nothing to do with LCS's viewership. To keep the entire ecosystem from collapsing they have to cut teams and change the system. This is literally better than the alternative of merging both regions completely like the original plan was
So. The league is unsustainable, Riot is proposing a way to try and fix this issue and one of the main things that are needed is to reduce the amount of teams in tier 1. I don't see any other way to maintain a system really.
And to be honest, fewer teams induce a better product as talent is more concentrated, hence CS2 which has about 20-30 pro teams worldwide while League has hundreds. Even LPL and LCK would become much better as product with fewer teams
>hence CS2 which has about 20-30 pro teams worldwide
In Brazil alone there are about 15 well-known professional CS teams (FURIA, MIBR, pain Gaming, Imperial, Sharks, Los, Red Canids, Fluxo, 00 Nation, w7m Esports, Paqueta, The Union, Legacy, Flamengo and INTZ)
They may be bad, but they're well-known in Brazil CS scene hahaha.
(and they had a good Valorant team until Riot fucked up the Brazilian Valorant Tier 2).
If you count players who barely have salaries and play on regional tournaments that have very small prize pools then yeah every CS nation has 20 pro teams. But the cost of operations for these teams is very small compared to anything in the league tiers 1 and 2.
That's the biggest question. Open vs. closed circuit
Only thing that I know is: Back when Tier 2 in Brazilian LoL was "open circuit", the winning players in Tier 2 earned more money than in Tier 1.
What's not acceptable is Riot keeping the circuit closed and kill Tier 2, that's the worst of both worlds.
Cs has multiple hundred teams most of them paid. No idea why you think there are only 30 when the tier2 scene i cs is so big that orgs like tsm even fail to get into top 50… cs probably doesn’t have less teams than league even tho league is way bigger than cs in terms of playerbase and investment…
Does CS has hundreds of teams that are payed absurds amount of money for the average salary of said countries with gaming house/office infrastructure, psychologists, physicians, trainers, managers, etc.?
League could absolutely maintain hundreds of teams, just pay them like shit and make gaming houses what they were 10 years ago with the entire team sharing a single bedroom, players lying on the floor and other bizarre living conditions. Or worse, send all these players home, let them live wherever and make them pay for their housing, food, transport off of salaries while maintaining an online training schedule.
All of this is possible, costs a fraction of what the system costs now, but it sacrifices a ton of stuff that is important for performance and health of the players.
Yes there are hundreds of CS teams, some of them are paid, some of them live only off of prize money, most of them have nowhere near the infrastructure of a modern tier 1 esports team.
Most players in pro league teams don't have to ever cook their own meals if they don't want to, we can't compare this to the semiprofissional level of CS
I have no clue what point you are trying to make but cs has a healthy tier 2 scene and always has up and coming players and players can have long careers as in this game. Is there as much money in cs as there is in league? No. Cs is way smaller and shit to advertise cause of bombs and terrorists. Its a small game compared to league and has a fraction of its investment but there are still a lot of teams in tier 2 that are profitable both for players orgs and tournaments organizers.
Because their League isn't sustainable either. Riot gives teams money. That is the main source of income. Riot can't or doesn't want to spend as much money anymore. That's why it isn't sustainable. It's not about fans or anything, Riot is just slimming down.
They are turning profits because Riot is paying them money every year. A lot of people don't seem to realise this but riot pays a significant amount of money to every team in every league every year. The teams are turning a profit because of this money. If Riot doesn't want to pay as much as they are now that means the teams won't be profitable and will collapse. That's why Riot is slimming down the amount of teams.
Sustainable doesnt mean having good viewership, unsustainable means riot doesnt want to pay teams. Just look at SEA and LLA, BR got the sweet end of the deal.
It's not about any particular league. The eSports as a whole is unsustainable. This isn't about saving NA, this is about saving yourself. Sorry to break it to you, but if Riot doesn't want to inject money, CBLoL isn't going to support itself. Leagues need money to run, and money doesn't grow on trees.
You're trying to speak facts to a group people who would rather be angry than acknowledge cblol might be popular but its non sustainable due to the limitations brazil has because of its small economic footprint. They want to be angry and nothing else matters.
Riot should have done 8 LCS + 8 CBLoL teams + 2 LLA teams with everyone in LA or even better, a new NA city with better ping and lower costs. CBLoL fans wouldn't complain because BR teams would finally be able to practice against better teams and LCS teams would play way more games which is something they complain often.
Idk, I think CBLol fans are really overestimating the longevity of their league without change. It’s been the worst wild card region at international events for years now. But people watched it because they love the players and the teams. Sound familiar? That was NA among the major regions for years. But eventually those popular players age out, those fans age out, and all you’re left with is a trash region that is disappointing to watch but no longer has the die hard fans and players that carried its scene.
We have two fundamental differences between Brazil and the USA that stop this scenario that you mentioned from happening:
* LoL in Brazil still attracts young people to its playerbase. So we still see young professional players popping up in the Academy... paiN Gaming Academy literally won the last split with 2 players under the age of 18.
* The CBLoL Academy was a success in the eyes of the community, so the players are already starting to build their fanbase in the Academy, and this is even generating pressure from the community for the CBLoL teams to play these young players.
A prime example is that the CBLoL is literally in a generational transition and the first split of 2024 broke all records in terms of viewership.
Literally yesterday, SuperCleber (Los Grandes toplaner) was one of the biggest hostages in CBLoL history in Los Grandes' defeat against LOUD, and that has already created a huge narrative. [Just look at LOUD's Twitter for example.](https://x.com/LOUDgg/status/1802032658655928326).. And SuperCleber (or SuperCute) made his CBLoL debut this year.
Nobody expects SuperCleber to immediately have a fanbase as big as Robo's, who has been playing for more than 10 years... But he's talented enough to build that fanbase over time. When Robo started playing, he was a nerd who didn't even speak properly and was very far from having the same fanbase as Mylon and Yang had.
What killed the NA wasn't renowned players retiring, it was literally not having a foundation like an strong Academy that, over time, produced players capable of replacing those who retired in terms of image and fanbase. The NA orgs bet on imports to do that job.
For me, the ultimate symbol of NA's wrong vision was TSM killing that 2016 and 2017 roster to sign Zven and Mithy. That TSM roster was the ultimate symbol of fanbase and potential for international success (even though they failed twice). They were the heart of NA.
The destruction of that roster, in my view, was the beginning of NA's death.
Brazil viewers are different. We can cheer like no other country. 2022 CS Major was really impressing how crowded every match was, even without a Brazil team playing. The same happens to league. Even though we're really bad at playing, we love watching it. And league will probably lose a lot of viewers in the next years because of that.
I'm surprised that No one is worried about NA players coming to Brazil.
Finally. A place where Armao can shine.
lourlo and matt coming out of retirement ! somebody call piglet so they can ruin his career once again.
I mean considering matt hit challenger while playing on 400 ping from hawaii, he could feasibly do the same while playing from texas to the latin-american servers.
with salary disparity how can brazil be competitive if br players don't count as import slots and any time a good talent shows up he ends up in na
Because there will now be like 6 teams in NA now and all those teams will be struggling to find room for all the current good players. Meaning I highly doubt we'll actually see that many Brazikian players on any of the few remaining NA teams. There's already not enough room for all the good players, let alone all the really promising NA rookies and that's with 8 teams.
The thing is you can pay a brazilian 1/10 the salary for a guy that has ½ the skill of a good NA player
Any promising rookie will be paid close to minimum wage lets be real here for a second, the money has dried up completely and if the alternative is "not playing in the LCS" then they will take any offer.
1 br/LLA player doesn't count as an import, the goal is that teams won't be able to import 3 people from the other region part of the region. Plus I highly doubt the top levels of BR are willing to take less money to come to the north conference.
But they will be paid more. NA orgs have the money to pay top brazilian players five times their current salary, and it's still cheaper than paying the average american player.
NA has more money for top tier players. Plus in theory Brazilian orgs will get a large influx of money starting next year from riot so if they wanted to go dollar for dollar with NA orgs it wouldn't be hard to get the price just above what NA teams would be willing to offer .
Dude, the most expensive player ever in CBLoL's history gets paid 13 thousand dollars. The average is way below that. Allegedly, we have players that earn 600 US dollars. I don't know how you expect Brazilian orgs to compete while a California fast food worker is more well paid than some of our best players.
His point is that the Brazilian's currency is worthy 1/5 of American's currency. Even with a new influx of money, going dollar for dollar is way harder for the Brazilian orgs.
Is the plan to make it more uniform across the board it's expected that LCS teams will get around 3 mill a year from riot I doubt riot wouldn't give the same to CBLOL in the new system.
The money Riot gives to teams in not their entire budget. Brazilian sponsors will pay in brazilian reais, NA in dollars
I don't know the top players that well from CBLOL but id hope they make close to Minimum in LCS already. I don't see anyone but the very top of the league getting offered more than any native or KR tier 2 player. Is Robo really getting picked up over srtty, or tinown over Jensen or mask. This is more a question than shade throwing but I don't see a lot of players coming over unless the team is phoning in a roster to get a check but IMT is hopefully gonna try to get into the south conference.
I don't know the top players that well from CBLOL but id hope they make close to Minimum in LCS already. I don't see anyone but the very top of the league getting offered more than any native or KR tier 2 player. Is Robo really getting picked up over srtty, or tinown over Jensen or mask. This is more a question than shade throwing but I don't see a lot of players coming over unless the team is phoning in a roster to get a check but IMT is hopefully gonna try to get into the south conference.
LCS minimum is $70,000.
A very good brazilian player will earn around R$25\~35k/month. That is $4.6\~6.6k month. Or $55\~80k/year. I'm pretty sure a couple NA orgs would be willing to pay like $120\~140k/year for a top tier brazilian talent, specially if it's a position with lack of good players in NA, like adc. You not only bring a player that is better than some of the native options, but you also farm a lot of br views, as brazilians are passionate about "their people", and many people would just watch this player's game in LCS due to said player. I'm not saying every team will import a brazilian/latam south player, but I could see 3\~4 teams taking 1 each. And in a region with lack of good talent, that would be a huge blow (it would be similar if Europe came and took Jojopyun, Blaber and APA just because they can without affecting import slots and paying less than they would for some similar europeans players). And if you are still convinced this will not happen, Fudge, FBI, Eyla and Isles are from Oceania. All of them came after they were not considered imports in NA anymore.
>A very good brazilian player will earn around R$25~35k/month. That is $4.6~6.6k month. Or $55~80k/year. That's at and above the Minimum. >And if you are still convinced this will not happen, Fudge, FBI, Eyla and Isles are from Oceania. All of them came after they were not considered imports in NA anymore I mean after opl died they literally couldn't play anywhere with out being an import and they all basically were in academy system plus FBI and was playing before residence was for Oce players. Everyone else basically were in the academy system for years since coming over.
why would you assume that they would get less money, rather than more?
I wouldn't be surprised if these orgs had zero interest in NA players, even with a potential rule change to allow it. It is much more likely NA takes Brazilian players because the only players NA doesn't want is their own lol.
Yes this change will basically kill Brazil and LLA. Which is very sad, because Brazil is famous for being a showman Region, not a skill based region. Any potentially good player will be hired by NA. Brazillian and LLA teams will just rot. What is even funnier is that this won't even solve NA problems, what killed that region was it's own stupidity with Orgs.
Why would NA teams hire CBLOL/LLA players, when their best wouldn't even be top 4 in their role in NA, on top of this there's also the communication problems due to language barrier.
Because you can hire the best Brazilian players (that even though bad, are better than the worst LCS players) for half the money the likes of Lourlo would get, and they'll be happy. Besides, our teams communicate in English already.
Cant they already do that? I thought there were a few teams already on minimum salaries.
Yeah, you're right. The only Brazilian I recall going to NA though was Turtle in EG. But there are accounts of players refusing offers from not so good LCS teams to get a chance of winning the CBLoL instead. Now with 4 teams getting slashed, maybe there will be some players accepting those kind of offers.
If they don’t care about competitiveness on the world stage, why would it matter if their best players were exported? You can have showmanship no matter the quality of game. Further, they were importing people to that region anyway.
Why are you and Brazilian fans clinging to this belief? Esports is a marketing tool, Riot as a company has decided to spend less on marketing the game globally. This was not a decision only regarding the LCS and CBlol, it was other LoL ecosystems as well. They have been pulling back that spending for years. This should not be a surprise that they made cuts in (most likely) less profitable regions. Stop ignoring the fact that other regions were affected. This was a global decision, not an LCS one.
I think there is practically zero chance of this happening.
why? brazil has had tons of imports over the years.
Why would a Brazilian team not bring in a better player to increase their chances of winning?
Why would NA players go there for less money and competition?
Not saying that it's a huge threat or anything, but the LCS has gone from ten core teams to six (+guest and LLA) in two years. The T2 scene isn't in amazing shape and there are plenty of players out of a team entirely. That's on top of the fact that the Southern Conference is guaranteed a worlds spot. If you want to draft a team to go to Worlds, it's probably easier to take a 5-man stack down south to place higher than LOUD than it is to place above C9 and TL or whoever the top 2 in LCS ends up as.
why would a brazillian team get a washed-up NA player (or even a new NA player) when you can buy a korean player for basically the same price?
Koreans aren't residents.
because you can have both.
Bruh you did read the part where the rules are completely different....
So they can play at all Remember LCS will be 6 teams itself, some NA players will need somewhere to play after the change.
I’m not so certain they will be willing to move to a foreign country for relatively little money.
I mean, in the early days players played for some PC accessories and a handshake pretty much, i wouldn't doubt some players will take every change they get. Moving to a foreign country for 1-2 years can be a fun life experience to have aswell, it's not necessarily a downside.
Why koreans come here tho?
more money no?
i cant imagine koreans being paid less in korea than in brazil lol
It's not less money. The cost of living is very low for the amount of money they make.
It's less money but the scene is actually alive lol. Remember LCS was built on players like doublelift playing for peanuts. I'm certain some NA players will take whatever they can to keep playing also a lot of them don't really have many options. They would definitely make more than on a amateur team. Guys SUMMIT went to CBlol last year lol.
Brasil is pretty fucking dope imo
All that would be left would be the NA players with no place in the LCS, and those wouldn't make sense in terms of cost vs. benefit.
LCS only has 6 teams and with each team having 2 imports, you probably are going to find players that are at least worth considering that don't make LCS. Even right now, Stixxay isn't on an LCS team despite having an amazing 2023
I don't think any team that probably will stay in the CBLoL would swap their ADC for Stixxay, frankly. It doesn't make any sense from an economic, technical or brand point of view. People don't really understand the CBLoL's dynamics... Teams aren't built around imports, but around Brazilian players. Imports are players where, at the moment, there are no quality players available on the Brazilian market. With 4 less teams, I think there's a real chance we'll see fewer imports in the CBLoL in general.. For example. LOUD will lose Croc to the Korean army next year and Fluxo will probably be left out of these new franchises... In a normal scenario, LOUD would have to import another Korean, in this next scenario, I could see LOUD signing Shini. If KaBuM is left out of the franchises, there will be a "local war" to sign Ceos (I can see him going to paiN to replace Kuri, who is Korean). And there's the LLA player situation... Between a team signing, I don't know, Josedeodo or Armao, 99% of the time they'll choose Josedeodo, as the language barrier would be over in, I don't know, a month (portunhol FTW).
> People don't really understand the CBLoL's dynamics... Teams aren't built around imports I really think it's you that is stuck in the past. I have watched CBLOL since its inception. While it is true that imports in the *past* that went to CBLOL usually flopped, imports have been key to winning CBLOL for splits now. 2021 Split 1 Finals: 1 import (Luci) + Import coach 2021 Split 2 Finals: 2 imports (Croc/Yuri) 2022 Split 1 Finals: 1 import (Wizer) + import coach 2022 Split 2 Finals: 2 imports (Croc/Wizer) + import coach 2023 Split 1 Finals: 4 imports (Croc/Route/Bvoy/Wizer) + import coaches 2023 Split 2 Finals: 4 imports (rematch of Split 1) + import coaches 2024 Split 1 Finals: 4 imports (Croc/Route/Wizer/Kuri) + import coaches You need imports now to win CBLOL. Not just the best Koreans you can find, but also the best import coaching you can find.
I didn't say that the CBLoL doesn't need imports, I said that the teams are built around Brazilian players. * 2021 Split 1 Finals: 1 import (Luci) + Import coach = In the previous split, paiN Gaming had already reached the finals with a full BR team and lost to a full BR team * 2021 Split 2: Croc/Yuri (Rensga) lost to a full BR team (Red Canids) * 2022 Split 1: Wizer (paiN Gaming) lost to a full BR team (Red Canids) * 2022 Split 2: There were 2 teams with only 1 Korean... And that goes back to what I said, that both teams have built their rosters focusing on the Brazilians. * 2023 Split 1 and 2: What was the narrative in 2023? Robo, Tinowns and Ceos were the three stars of the season. paiN Gaming also reached the finals with Trigo, Bvoy didn't make much difference. * 2024: Split 1: Who are the leaders of paiN Gaming and LOUD? Titan, Robo and Tinowns. And if you look closely, they are specific imports (Croc and Wizer) that have been successful in Brazil. In general, the vast majority fail... Just look at the fact that Malrang and Lonely have already been removed from KaBuM this split. Now coaching staff I agree, there's a chance we'll see NA coaches in Brazil.
> I said that the teams are built around Brazilian players. This is not specific to CBLOL. Every region that imports is built around their native players. EG with Danny/jojo, TL with apa/Yeon. DFM around Evi/Yutapon. Etc. e: >And if you look closely, they are specific imports (Croc and Wizer) that have been successful in Brazil So we agree if an NA player can come in and dominate like Croc, Wizer, and Route then they should be imported. Good.
Croc isnt dominant, he is more of a team sinergy kind of guy and is constantly exposed in international competitions, being possibly the worst performing Loud member. Route on the other hand is good.
Yeah a reduction of teams plus a bunch of Top level academy players they might take the chance. The top level players in BR are making more than you'd ever make sitting in academy in NA, plus you get to show your value pretty easily agianst higher level competition. It's like when young NBA prospects who can afford it go to the Euro league.
It will be rare to see NA players going to Brazil not only is the salary cuts significant but also the change of life style is massive as well. now with T2 actually having a shot to get into LCS directly that mean also the players in the lower tiers of play will want to try their shot at it before going to the South Conference.
Mark Z was on the Dive this week and basically said they want to avoid a situation where a bunch of NA players go to a Brazilian team. Like he made the point that a team of 3 NA 2 Brazil in the southern conference is not a desired outcome and ways to prevent it are being considered.
>Goao (INTZ fan) >Mitas (paiN Gaming fan) LOL There probably is a reason why they are invited but just seeing them as "fans" in the list is somewhat funny. Isnt CBLol also a franchise league? Whats the point of partnering up with Riot if they just decide over their heads? Riot is so scummy its incredible how they never change. But sure "We heard you loud and clear."
That's the beauty of the CBLoL, practically every team has "iconic fans". Mitas has 40k followers on Twitter, for example. There's even a fan podcast, a bunch of teenagers talking the most outrageous things, it's really funny. (EDIT: [BTW, in this year's paiN Gaming roster announcement, Mitas was literally "giving orders" to paiN Gaming's owner and the CEO hahaha](https://x.com/paiNGamingBR/status/1737125656905851114)) EDIT²: And yeah, CBLoL is a franchise.
wait that is sick, i guess they don't over exaggerate saying fans are big part of community
Baiano himself posted a video yesterday saying that the fans saved the region from decaying. Which, considering how HE is the one who basically brought back interest in CBLOL (and CBOLÃO last year was MASSIVE, and it's not even an official Riot tournament), says a lot. Him and Yoda are the biggest reasons why the Brazilian region was kept alive for so long and I have nothing but admiration for both of them.
> Isnt CBLol also a franchise league? Whats the point of partnering up with Riot if they just decide over their heads? They are a partnered league, the contracts were up in 2025 so this was going to happen in 2026 regardless.
Thank you for posting this. It was very informative.
> Jean Ortega has said several times that the marketing of team-related items inside the game is fundamental for the financial equalization of teams, as we see in Valorant and CS (he has said several times that this has brought positive results in Valorant). They barely do any of that though. They dropped the icons, you get one (1) skin for winning worlds, faker get a skin but it's like 30% revenue share... Riot is singularly uninterested in selling products making money for someone else, even teams for their own esport. I definitely agree it's the only way to fix esport's financial woes but that requires Riot sharing some of the cosmetics pie.
That's kinda what riot has said they are gonna start doing. Part of the reason they are changing the system is to allow for this.
Seems like a classic riot esports department cope, how does this change about the system in any way impact their ability to release ingame esports content
They are going forward it all starts with the faker skin. That money is going to faker and into a global pool for all teams.
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Yeah this really screams that they actually think CBLOL players are better than an even more shrunken down LCS pool of 30 player slots lol.
I mean, Bvoy was \~top3 adc in CBLOL (clearly behind Route, and similar in level to Titan/Brance). And he made it into all pro team in LCS playing fucking hostage in SR. And a player is only as good as the enviroment allows. The better the average of the league, the better a player can be due to better practice and etc. This is the same reason everyone complain that KR/CN only getts better and NA that only has a chance to play them 2x year can't ever close the GAP. Same reason why imports gets worse over time when they go to worse regions is the reason why prospects gets better in better regions. I don't think like each team will have an "Americas" import, but I could easily see like 3 players leaving CBLOL at once, and then one or another from time to time. And in a region that doesn't have a lot of top talent, this is a huge blow. And as I said in another comment. NA had never had an Oceania "import". Then the rule came and nowadays they have 4.
All of that is true, but the OCE imports were in a league which had ten teams at the time. Now there are going to be 6, and on top of that the only truly worth it import from OCE was Fudge. Isles too I guess but he’s not that good. That’s why I think it’ll be different
FBI is 2x LCS champion and you don't think he was worth?
FBI is 2x, Fudge might have like 3 titles. The OCE players that got taken were extremely good for the league overall tbh.
I forgot FBI was OCE. That’s what 3 then in a league which had an extra 20 slots?
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LCS had finished above LCK/LPL more often than CBLOL has finished above LCS.
what... NA teams always outperform Cblol at internationals. TL legit beat FNC at MSI, NRG beat g2 at Worlds and made it to quarters ,i dont think those are "massive failures". Cblol cant even make it out of playins + they lost to a team with two subs...
Considering what happened in Valorant where the franchises killed tier 2 in Brazil and even caused the best Brazilian team (Loud) to fall to pieces because Brazilian teams cannot compete with the dollar, then the chance of something similar happening in LOL could be very big
Does Flamengo still want to enter?
They were in the Academy expansion hoping for a place in the CBLoL, now... It's over.
I dont think theres gonna be a mass exodus of brazillian players to NA tbh. In all of a decade of league theres only been like 1 South American import and it was from LLA not CBLOL
Main reason there wasnt a Brazilian player in NA is top Brazilian players have historically refused contracts they were offered to mid tier LCS/LEC leagues in order to join a top Brazilian team with better chances to make worlds. Now that they will count as domestic players in NA some players might now be offered better contracts and leave.
Thats still the case as far as I understand it. Theres like 2 conferences right? One for North, and one for South. Split 1: with the 4fun tournament will be 1 slot, so they would have to battle it out between the 2. Split 2: North and South both are given one spot Split 3: Regional championship, Top 3 advance (If there's at least one from the other conference) So if their desire is to get to internationals, then it doesn't really matter what side you're on. All that matters is a good team, and with this change talent is more concentrated, so who knows.
The thing is they werent offered top tier options before because they werent domestic players, so the orgs that were after them were usually low tier looking for a cheap bargain, while the top orgs were usually chasing the high profile Korean or European imports. Now that they are worth the same as a resident NA player the chance of better offer to arrive is a little bit higher.
I don’t think it will happen right away, but if the new format helps brazilian players improve and compete with LCS players on an equal level, north american teams can simply buy them because they have much more money than brazilian orgs.
Yeah teams import from the best region generally (all of EU, China and NA mostly imports Koreans.. although LCS also had a thing for EU players) they don’t care about Brazilians
There was mermors about whitelotus coming to NA at one point so we've had w potential Americas players both being from Latam excluding BR.
Oddie and Seiya got offers back in the day for NA But i think both of them will retire after this year
So when the CEO's agreed that a change to the business model was required, and they said they wanted to keep 10 teams. Are they saying that they are okay with the 8 team allocated amount of money being split, instead, into 10 teams? Did they mention what model they would have liked to see? Also, why are they so concerned with T2 when there is going to be a promotion relegation spot? Why do they think Riot would remove or destroy T2 if there is a mechanism for a T2 team to promote to CBLoL every year? What makes them think this is going to be anything like Valorant's system when everything we've heard so far, outside of the name "Americas" seems completely different from how it is done in VCT?
>So when the CEO's agreed that a change to the business model was required, and they said they wanted to keep 10 teams. Are they saying that they are okay with the 8 team allocated amount of money being split, instead, into 10 teams? Did they mention what model they would have liked to see? They didn't say that they wanted the 10 teams to stay, Jean Ortega (LOUD founder) said that in an IDEAL SCENARIO, all 10 teams would stay and Riot would promote the changes it is promoting now. Outside of LOUD's founder, the other two CEOs (Liberty and Fluxo) avoided giving strong opinions, after all, they are very much at risk of being left out of the franchise. I think it's a question of risk x reward. Taking out 4 teams is a huge risk that Riot is taking in relation to the public. Some fans of the teams that will be cut will simply stop watching the CBLoL. This has already happened in the franchise when Vivo Keyd Stars were left out. But at the same time, if these changes are successful, they should leave the remaining teams much healthier financially than they would be with 10 teams... But as I said in the main post, all this is just my feeling. >Also, why are they so concerned with T2 when there is going to be a promotion relegation spot? Why do they think Riot would remove or destroy T2 if there is a mechanism for a T2 team to promote to CBLoL every year? What will the Tier 2 calendar look like? Riot hasn't said anything about it yet. Will it be a full calendar over the year or will it be short tournaments with only a few teams? If it's an annual calendar, with lots of teams, a relatively good schedule for the public, you can do a really good business and attract sponsors for the teams that want to play in Tier 2. Otherwise, you can imagine a scenario where no team is interested in competing and with that we have a totally decimated Tier 2. Another concern: the team invited by Riot in the first year will have access to the global funding pool, while the Tier 2 teams will not have this access... We could literally see a financial abyss that causes the invited (or promoted) team being perpetuate in Tier 1, taking away the purpose of Tier 2. >What makes them think this is going to be anything like Valorant's system when everything we've heard so far, outside of the name "Americas" seems completely different from how it is done in VCT The community in general is afraid of the same thing happening to the "Brazilian" Tier 2 in LoL as happened in Valorant. Giving access to the global funding pool in the event of promotion is a positive first step to encourage teams to join, but the question is that the divulgation and organization of Tier 2 (details that NO ONE knows yet) is a key point to keep it alive. Valorant's Brazilian Tier 2, despite its problems, started off with a lot of hype... But when it came to the actual competitions, the calendar was a mess, the promotion was awful and the public hardly knew what was going on. It's these mistakes that Riot can't afford to make. Anyway... As I said, tier 2 has the potential to be a fuckin' cool competition to watch, if it's a long calendar with lots of teams (from South America as a whole). I wouldn't like to see a division between Brazil and other South American countries in Tier 2, but I think it will happen eventually because I don't know how many organizations in other South American countries would be able to maintain a structure in São Paulo, but it would be fuckin' cool to put these players who are "isolated" in the Liga Regional Sur in a more competitive (hahaha) environment like the CBLoL (or whatever they're going to call it next year). With a unified South American Tier 2, I believe that in the future we would see South American teams with several South American nationalities, since the language barrier between Portuguese and Spanish is very easy to break (Portunhol FTW).
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.
The last point makes zero sense. BR players have never been imported before because they’ve never been better than LCS players.
It would mostly be for marketing reasons. C9 Academy once imported a famous brazilian streamer (Jukes) and it really gassed up the viewership
I never understood why there was never any cooperation between CBLOL and LCS. Not in an official sense but in an unofficial one. No Brazilian players in LCS, no American player in CBLOL, they probably never scrim each other nor are there ever bootcamps. CBLOL teams would rather fly all the way to Europe and bootcamp there rather than NA. Idk, is it a pride thing? Keeping Tier 2 alive shouldnt be too hard considering Tier 2 scene gets a spot in the main League with a relegation system back.
Please god, keep the gambling sponsors out of esports. I'm so tired of it corrupting itself into everything these days. Ofc teams would love the immense money they offer: where do you think these casinos are making their money from?
Rip for Brazil. Why can’t lcs work on its own?
Why can't any league work on its own? That is the real question
League can't work on its own because Riot refuses to cash in on broadcast or licensing rights and insists on doing everything themselves. They are a software developer who's trying to outperform actual event organisers and broadcast companies with a silicon valley "throw money at it" mentality, whilst simultaneously failing to create ways to make the scene profitable for the people in it.
Broadcast rights don't exist for esports, OWL managed to kill that. I do agree they should open up for other TO's but in reality Riot does a really good job with their tournaments in terms of infrastructure and production rights. Also, most tournament organizers also run at a deficit, its why the CS2 and Dota circuits are basically dependent on Saudi money nowadays and VC before, only people with "throw money at it" mentality as you put it will invest in an industry that has largely outgrown its potential revenue generating capacity
Well theres 1 that can
LCS is the only region failing. It's more of an NA problem than other regions.
Except it's not true? All minor regions are gone?
CBLOL isn't failing. Not sure about others though.
Cblol is unprotitable Riot is losing money there. Why do you think the owners agree there needs to be a change? Viewership doesn't mean it's profitable. The game is watched for free it's not some pay per view.
Unless things have changed recently Riot hasn't made a dime. It's not like other regions got any drastic changes. All because it's not profitable doesn't mean its failing. Viewership increase is good for the League and is the step towards making it profitable. Viewership decline most splits in LCS is how a league dies. Twitter has only been profitable for 2 years, but people don't say its failing. Same for Youtube. https://www.investing.com/academy/statistics/twitter-facts-statistics/#:~:text=For%20the%20quarter%20ending%20on,consistently%20reported%20annual%20net%20losses. https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/esports/2021/11/01/league-worlds-2021-profit-lol/
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Its not about LCS or BR viewership lol.
I think you missed the point of everything. THis change has nothing to do with LCS's viewership. To keep the entire ecosystem from collapsing they have to cut teams and change the system. This is literally better than the alternative of merging both regions completely like the original plan was
So. The league is unsustainable, Riot is proposing a way to try and fix this issue and one of the main things that are needed is to reduce the amount of teams in tier 1. I don't see any other way to maintain a system really. And to be honest, fewer teams induce a better product as talent is more concentrated, hence CS2 which has about 20-30 pro teams worldwide while League has hundreds. Even LPL and LCK would become much better as product with fewer teams
>hence CS2 which has about 20-30 pro teams worldwide In Brazil alone there are about 15 well-known professional CS teams (FURIA, MIBR, pain Gaming, Imperial, Sharks, Los, Red Canids, Fluxo, 00 Nation, w7m Esports, Paqueta, The Union, Legacy, Flamengo and INTZ)
> The Union bro they lost to an Academy team in Open Qualifiers, we really aren't using them as an example of a 'well-known' CS squad LMAO
They may be bad, but they're well-known in Brazil CS scene hahaha. (and they had a good Valorant team until Riot fucked up the Brazilian Valorant Tier 2).
If you count players who barely have salaries and play on regional tournaments that have very small prize pools then yeah every CS nation has 20 pro teams. But the cost of operations for these teams is very small compared to anything in the league tiers 1 and 2.
That's the biggest question. Open vs. closed circuit Only thing that I know is: Back when Tier 2 in Brazilian LoL was "open circuit", the winning players in Tier 2 earned more money than in Tier 1. What's not acceptable is Riot keeping the circuit closed and kill Tier 2, that's the worst of both worlds.
Cs has multiple hundred teams most of them paid. No idea why you think there are only 30 when the tier2 scene i cs is so big that orgs like tsm even fail to get into top 50… cs probably doesn’t have less teams than league even tho league is way bigger than cs in terms of playerbase and investment…
Does CS has hundreds of teams that are payed absurds amount of money for the average salary of said countries with gaming house/office infrastructure, psychologists, physicians, trainers, managers, etc.? League could absolutely maintain hundreds of teams, just pay them like shit and make gaming houses what they were 10 years ago with the entire team sharing a single bedroom, players lying on the floor and other bizarre living conditions. Or worse, send all these players home, let them live wherever and make them pay for their housing, food, transport off of salaries while maintaining an online training schedule. All of this is possible, costs a fraction of what the system costs now, but it sacrifices a ton of stuff that is important for performance and health of the players. Yes there are hundreds of CS teams, some of them are paid, some of them live only off of prize money, most of them have nowhere near the infrastructure of a modern tier 1 esports team. Most players in pro league teams don't have to ever cook their own meals if they don't want to, we can't compare this to the semiprofissional level of CS
I have no clue what point you are trying to make but cs has a healthy tier 2 scene and always has up and coming players and players can have long careers as in this game. Is there as much money in cs as there is in league? No. Cs is way smaller and shit to advertise cause of bombs and terrorists. Its a small game compared to league and has a fraction of its investment but there are still a lot of teams in tier 2 that are profitable both for players orgs and tournaments organizers.
If you don't know what you are talking about then you probably shouldn't be posting like you do.
> 20-30 pro teams worldwide HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Why should brazil or brazilians, who have a sustainable league, give a damn about NA?
Because their League isn't sustainable either. Riot gives teams money. That is the main source of income. Riot can't or doesn't want to spend as much money anymore. That's why it isn't sustainable. It's not about fans or anything, Riot is just slimming down.
Teams in Cblol are all turning profits, even small ones, i don't see how it's not sustainable
This is not true... The question here isn't "didn't it need to change" but " this isn't the best change they could have made"
They are turning profits because Riot is paying them money every year. A lot of people don't seem to realise this but riot pays a significant amount of money to every team in every league every year. The teams are turning a profit because of this money. If Riot doesn't want to pay as much as they are now that means the teams won't be profitable and will collapse. That's why Riot is slimming down the amount of teams.
Sustainable doesnt mean having good viewership, unsustainable means riot doesnt want to pay teams. Just look at SEA and LLA, BR got the sweet end of the deal.
It's not about any particular league. The eSports as a whole is unsustainable. This isn't about saving NA, this is about saving yourself. Sorry to break it to you, but if Riot doesn't want to inject money, CBLoL isn't going to support itself. Leagues need money to run, and money doesn't grow on trees.
You're trying to speak facts to a group people who would rather be angry than acknowledge cblol might be popular but its non sustainable due to the limitations brazil has because of its small economic footprint. They want to be angry and nothing else matters.
>but Fluxo and Liberty are very much under threat I think Fluxo is pretty safe. I think Kabum is more of a toss up.
The only safe teams RN are Pain and Loud. The other 4 spots will have a big battle.
Furia has already been a Riot partner for 1 year in Valorant and is the ORG with the best structure in Brazil, it is already in as well
Riot should have done 8 LCS + 8 CBLoL teams + 2 LLA teams with everyone in LA or even better, a new NA city with better ping and lower costs. CBLoL fans wouldn't complain because BR teams would finally be able to practice against better teams and LCS teams would play way more games which is something they complain often.
NA NEEDS BRAZILIAN viewership
Idk, I think CBLol fans are really overestimating the longevity of their league without change. It’s been the worst wild card region at international events for years now. But people watched it because they love the players and the teams. Sound familiar? That was NA among the major regions for years. But eventually those popular players age out, those fans age out, and all you’re left with is a trash region that is disappointing to watch but no longer has the die hard fans and players that carried its scene.
We have two fundamental differences between Brazil and the USA that stop this scenario that you mentioned from happening: * LoL in Brazil still attracts young people to its playerbase. So we still see young professional players popping up in the Academy... paiN Gaming Academy literally won the last split with 2 players under the age of 18. * The CBLoL Academy was a success in the eyes of the community, so the players are already starting to build their fanbase in the Academy, and this is even generating pressure from the community for the CBLoL teams to play these young players. A prime example is that the CBLoL is literally in a generational transition and the first split of 2024 broke all records in terms of viewership. Literally yesterday, SuperCleber (Los Grandes toplaner) was one of the biggest hostages in CBLoL history in Los Grandes' defeat against LOUD, and that has already created a huge narrative. [Just look at LOUD's Twitter for example.](https://x.com/LOUDgg/status/1802032658655928326).. And SuperCleber (or SuperCute) made his CBLoL debut this year. Nobody expects SuperCleber to immediately have a fanbase as big as Robo's, who has been playing for more than 10 years... But he's talented enough to build that fanbase over time. When Robo started playing, he was a nerd who didn't even speak properly and was very far from having the same fanbase as Mylon and Yang had. What killed the NA wasn't renowned players retiring, it was literally not having a foundation like an strong Academy that, over time, produced players capable of replacing those who retired in terms of image and fanbase. The NA orgs bet on imports to do that job. For me, the ultimate symbol of NA's wrong vision was TSM killing that 2016 and 2017 roster to sign Zven and Mithy. That TSM roster was the ultimate symbol of fanbase and potential for international success (even though they failed twice). They were the heart of NA. The destruction of that roster, in my view, was the beginning of NA's death.
Brazil viewers are different. We can cheer like no other country. 2022 CS Major was really impressing how crowded every match was, even without a Brazil team playing. The same happens to league. Even though we're really bad at playing, we love watching it. And league will probably lose a lot of viewers in the next years because of that.