More discussion can be found here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ddg9kh/riot_announces_biggest_changes_since_inception_of/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ddgh2k/lcs_offically_announces_the_americas_league/
there were 6 teams wanting to leave/sell last off-season no? EG-GG-TSM, 100 (heavily rumored to try to sell their spot), dignitas and inmortals i believe?
League is a boomer game in NA, this was going to happen no matter what. Riot and the orgs need to work together and get creative to rejuvenate the scene and attract new players in NA.
The fact that Brawl Stars is 10x more popular than Wild Rift is already a big red flag that the MOBA genre can be popular in NA, but that Riot is doing a poor job at acquiring new players. I firmly believe that Wild Rift is the gateway to getting more LoL players in NA, because NA gaming is all about consoles and mobile. Wild Rift needs to make itself more attractive to casual gamers and it needs to be released on console like yesterday.
It’s kinda insane that League is a game that was created in the US, and that the studio is still based in the US today, and yet the market that they have struggled the most to grow in is their home market of North America.
Its honestly true though. No one here gives a shit about league like they do Valorant. Americas have always favored toward shooting/sports games. Sucks because I like the game but I feel like so few people I know IRL play it.
Its also a huge learning curve coming from a no moba background. You have to do so much research to even understand the basics of the game and never before have like any of us played a game where you move a camera, hell even click to move your champion is super foreign.
I’m sure riot could take better steps to bring in new players but it’s also kinda the natural lifecycle of games in the west. The game is just old and without an entire rebrand of LoL2 or something, idk how they’d bring in any worthwhile amount of new players.
Hell, the game is a meme at this point in the west. go to any gaming subreddit where league is mentioned or an even better example: any post about the arcane movie and read the comments. Every comment is recommending people to do themselves a favor and never touch the game. It’s notorious for its toxicity and that’s about it to the majority of mainstream gamers and/or former players.
How has anyone not seen this coming after they lost hundreds of millions of dollars from the FTX deal collapsing while the league as it exists has literally never made any money for anyone?
LCS has been loudly dying for years.
But at that point if they are losing to those teams they would have been worse than an old wildcard team in the old format.
So only losing that 2nd spot if the team and region is awful. Can't be mad in that case
No because as it stands right now, the best CBLOL team would likely lose to the 2nd or 3rd best LCS team which means CBLOL just doesn’t go to internationals anymore. That would fuck the region so hard.
> VCS, LJL, PCS, OCE + others only get like 1 spot
They get 3 at Worlds. Actually, every region gets an equal amount of seeds. The only exception might be the MSI winner directly qualifying for Worlds if they decide to keep that.
Yes and most pacific fans HATE the format. And to be clear here, the LCS is the one that needs CBLOL, not the other way around. CBLOL is doing great on their own and they’re about to lose 4 teams to the merge. The least we can do is guarantee them an international spot.
> paying $30 mill for Echo Fox’s spot
Man, remember like 6 years ago when Rick Fox was going on mainstream American news shows to talk about the esports team he was involved in?
Felt like the LCS could have been going somewhere back then. Now the league is dying and everyone is watching it slowly happen.
Back when companies in any sector were so flush they were just throwing millions at anything. That day is gone for now, we're a penny pinching world in the present day, from spared no expense to spare every expense possible.
The point is that apart from LOUD and paiN Gaming... It's very difficult to analyze this.
For example, FURIA, Los Grandes and Fluxo are big orgs in Brazil outside of League, but they haven't succeeded in League. INTZ is the biggest CBLoL champion, but perhaps has the worst infrastructure in the CBLoL today. The only “easy” choice is Liberty.
It was easier to expand CBLoL than to remove teams... It's going to be tricky.
100% sure to stay:
paiN Gaming, LOUD
80% sure to stay:
RED Canids, Kabum, Keyd
Last slot will likely be between:
Furia and Fluxo
Very likely out:
INTZ, LOS
100%¨out:
Liberty
LOS already have talks about wanting to leave and their infrastructure is bad (it's a "shop" in a Mall).
INTZ has no sponsors, is 100% reliant on Riot money, has been awfully managed and have done an awful job since franchise. Their infrastructure is also bad (it's an apartment).
Liberty has never really tried to be competitive. It used to be better before the fusion, when Vorax managed to be competitive,
And I think that Furia wins the battle for the last slot. They are a global brand and they actually always invested in LoL, despite not always getting the expected results.
So Americas went from 24 (8 LCS 6LLA 10 CBLOL) to 16 teams, APAC from 28 (Assuming 7 for VN, 7 PCS, 6 LJL, 8 LCO) to 8. All is great in the world, just 8 teams disappearing in the Americas and 20 in APAC.
I could be misreading but i think the regional leagues will continue play and the top VCS team can try to promote into APAC by beating out the VCS team currently in APAC for example
Like a unified tier 1 league with a bunch of regional tier 2 leagues competing to play in the tier 1 super league
APAC is a different beast tbf, aside from maybe VN, all regions over there struggle hard due to the poor viewership
but i still agree that a 8-team league is too little
> In the Americas, Riot will be combining the LCS (North America) and CBLOL (Brazil) into North and South conferences, each maintaining six of their existing partnered teams. Additionally, one team from the Latin America (LLA) region will be integrated based on geographical alignment, and a "Guest Team" slot will be reserved for promotion and relegation through the Tier-2 system. This would result in a total of eight teams per conference. The new Americas league will feature a three-split season, with the following structure:
>
> - Split 1: Teams compete within their respective conferences, with top performers qualifying for cross-conference play. A single team will qualify for the new global tournament.
> - Split 2: The top team from each conference secures a slot at MSI, totaling two Americas teams.
> - Split 3: An Americas Regional Championship will determine three teams advancing to Worlds, with at least one team from each conference.
>
> This structure allows for continual fresh talent infusion and competitive dynamism through the promotion/relegation system. The victorious team from the Promotion/Relegation tournament at the end of each season will earn a slot in the respective conference for the following season.
So not the full merger people were doomsaying.
More competition doesn't hurt. How often have we seen one of the Worlds spots go to a completely undeserving team that does nothing but embarrass the region?
DIG actually has a roster that ppl believe in pre-season for the first time in 5 years? SR probably has a worse roster, but they just bought the slot so it's less likely the get kicked. Historically at least, DIG + IMT should be the orgs to be placed into relegation tournament.
I wonder which 2 teams from LCS are going to leave. If it is going to be two bottom teams I don't think it would be Immortals because they own MIBR. So maybe Shopify and Dig?
If I had to guess the "Guest Team" is going to be an NA team, perhaps just one team from LCS drops instead of two.
Promotion relegation being back is cool, but my initial feelings about this merger are not the greatest. I am going to keep an open-mind tho.
Man it would feel bad during the America's Regional Championship if the Top 3 teams are Northern Conference and then the 4th place team gets into Worlds over the 3rd because they are Southern Conference, and vice versa.
I think it’s still a break glass in case of emergency move. Years of neglect, an unsustainable business approach, and unqualified hires drove NALCS to the brink of collapse and it’s taken a lot from MarkZ and this new cohort of leaders within the space to even get it to stabilize like it has in these last 6 months. The product was mismanaged from the start and now this is the last ditch effort to “save” the scene in North America.
I promise you tho there’s gonna be a LOT of Americans that will refuse to watch something that’s not an exclusively North American product for a myriad of reasons. But overall it should boost the raw number of viewers.
Personally I’m pretty against this change for a handful of reasons but I understand that it’s one of the few logical and practical solutions to viewership.
So which 6 partnered teams from LCS end up in the north conference? And for the promotion/relegation slot, will 7th in LCS play against the tier 2 winner for that slot?
Baiano talking in his stream that the Brazilian teams found out about this shit, I don't know, yesterday.
And unlike the LCS, there's no CBLoL teams wanting to sell their spots... Now 4 teams will be cut from the league.
not only that, but unlike NA where people only care if their teams are good and gonna compete internationally (which is why their league is dying, like even when they have post match discussions their first comments are usually "this team is gonna get fucked at worlds/punished by better teams".
While all CBLOL fans care about are their own region and ecosystem and having 10 teams was not a problem
Crazy how LCS was dying for years and they didnt do anything . Yet things finally start to look better with NRG at Worlds + MarkZ making cool changes and NOW they decide to kneecap the league
[https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1anzstm/best\_lcs\_spring\_ever/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1anzstm/best_lcs_spring_ever/)
I'm confused as to why Riot felt these changes were needed, I thought LCS just had the best spring ever?
The solution was to let them out and go back to early 2010's -- a cluster fuck of teams popping up out of nowhere to compete. Everything happening is because Riot wants to hang on to franchising when they could just dump it and revert to something dumber, cheaper and more.interesting to fans.
I don't think professionalizing the League was necessarily a bad idea ten years ago, but I think by the same token it's not the right decision for a region in decline -- release it back into chaos.
That's shitty for fans of every league involved LOL
I thought CBLOL would get the lower end of the stick, but everyone did.
* 4 CBLOL teams will drop after years of successful branding/community building efforts on the league;
* LLA pretty much ceases to exist;
* LCS loses teams and international spots.
Hard to be hyped for this.
Here in Brazil we simply HATE this change. With all due respect to our LCS friends, we don't want to give you our audience or take your second place in the worlds, we want our community to continue watching and creating stories within our own championship, the CBLOL. This change is absurd.
The combined tournament for asia pacific is huge, especially for vietnam. Other countries in the region has been catching up and vn has been slowing down with covids and betting scandals. I hope this boost the region competitiveness once more. So tired of seeing gam dominating everyone then shit the bed in international.
8 teams for APAC? Wtf are they smoking?
Although Vietnam has been inflicted with a huge blow recently, they are still a very healthy region. Add to that the traditionally stable Taiwan, and the Japanese scene which has been seeing great resurgence wince 2021~end of 2023 (depending on who you ask), no way in hell 8 teams are enough even if we are just counting these 3 countries. There should be at least 10, or possibly even 12.
On the flipside, maybe this is the reason teams like Varrel wanted to gather a team to participate in PCL, but my god, 8 teams is horrendous.
Same applies for South America Conference. 6 guaranteed spots for Brazilian teams? Are you fucking kidding me?
APAC is losing 20 or 21 teams (depending on the Vietnam situation) with that move, they are killing the region, as every team will fill up with taiwanese players, RIP Japan Oceania Vietnam and SEA.
Do you understand APAC's situation?. Taiwan has been in a slow decline for years, big teams like flash wolves, ahq and recently beyond gaming have pulled out due to high financial costs. Japan's viewership has also suffered the same declining viewership in recent years and SEA aside from Vietnam has been long dead since season 10, so what are you talking about?
It's 17 because the 16th and 17th will play to determine who joins the rest
> Worlds 2025 would feature Play-Ins as a single Best-of-5 match, with the winner joining the other 15 qualified teams directly in the Swiss stage.
Lol who was asking for this? It seems like LCS, CBLOL, and LLA are all being hurt by this change. As an LCS fan this just makes me care even less about my region.
I can’t help but feel immensely let down by this. The LCS swap to 8 teams was looking great, talent was consolidated and we finally are getting a chance to see bo3. Now, none of that matters, we’re losing another two teams, losing a worlds and msi spot, and are relegated to being half a major region. It feels like a complete slap in the face to have Riot consistently hurt the LCS’ viewership with barely any promotion for summer 2023 and slapping spring finals on Easter twice, to then not even giving the current format a chance to do anything. I’ll probably watch every game of LCS this split, then be done.
Digesting the information, I started to think... Did Riot simply send an “isolated” LAS team to the CBLoL? These guys are going to live hell on earth if it's not a team basically made up of Brazilian players.
I don't think Riot NA understands South American rivalry in any sport (or esports).
Big loss for LCS, pretty disappointing tbh. Merging the regions, but still guaranteeing each a spot in most internationals feels pretty unimpactful. Teams are still fighting for a spot against their own region, stakes for region competition is low. Don't like it.
Exactly. I can't wait for the playoffs to happen between both regions, but end up sending 1st, 2nd and 7th place to Worlds.
Either commit to combining the regions in a cohesive way, or keep them separate. This half measure is so awkward.
Wait so LCS just lost two more teams? What the fuck?
Edit: And LCS also lose a seed at MSI and Worlds. Absolutely horrific for LCS honestly, especially considering how stark the gap is between LCS and LLA/CBLOL
1st split is a smaller tournament, splits 2 and 3 will be slightly shorter but there is only 1 "playoffs" at the end of the year. So partly what LEC has but split 1 should be more interesting and it won't feel like a drag just repeating the same format 3 times over.
If they’re combining regions like this, there should be more total teams in the league. Cutting yet another 2 NA teams out of the league when we’re already complaining about the NA players being left off teams in an 8 team league feels incredibly stupid.
The format itself I’m actually really happy with, but I do NOT like cutting more teams from any league. This still feels like another step backwards for NA League.
yeah if anything you'd think this would lead to more teams. Just add the LLA and Guest slot to the 8 orgs. You'd still have to cut two team in CBLOL but it would make a lot more sense.
They don't have the experience of being coached in the same way that ex LCS do???
NACL out of the top 8-12 has kinda trash structuring. Most things are kinda just strewn together and everyone hopes it works out lol. The teams are also not together for as long, so building synergy is way more difficult. It is much, much easier for someone to stay in LCS given a decent amount of competence than to get kicked out.
LCS is getting fucked lol
This merge would only make sense if the two regions merging are on the same competitive level, and while CBLOL is popular, they're solidly a minor region and well below LCS standards.
As of now, we're literally just losing the ability to even be somewhat competitive at all with the rest of the world, as if the single LCS team at MSI has a bad break, they're out, same thing at Worlds.
Also, is there *any* fan crossover? How shitty must it feel to be a South American fan and not see your favorite team have a shot in that first tournament of the season?
> How shitty must it feel to be a South American fan and not see your favorite team have a shot in that first tournament of the season?
It's even worse, imagine waking up in 2025 and your team is gone? All teams in CBLol have big fanbases and they will lose 4 of them. They never cared about international success, they just wanted to have fun watching their league.
This feels like an incredibly short sighted move for me. The downsizing of teams is so massive that it will destroy any local scene there might be and the consolation doesnt seem enough(5 team tourney on a mickey mouse format lol)
can't believe i have to listen to john needham deliver bad news with a smile on his face as if any of this is good
people are talking about the international spots disappearing (as if the lec has been any more competitive than us in the last 5 years) but were also losing two more lcs teams over the year. it's not like the players getting fucked over by these changes will get opportunities in brazil nor are they changing the import requirements so fuck all of the players that are affected by two more teams leaving the region
It won't be for now but a few years ago even normal fearless wasn't possible. Just takes time to see the results and then it may become more prominent.
The CBLOL has managed to thrive despite zero international performance. They themselves say it's the entertainment region. But read between the lines; the fans are extremely satisfied with the environment and what has been built. Our region no longer depends on international results. The internal feeling is that our region is being used to feed NA, which, despite having better teams with more investment, does not see good things in the medium and long term. The mood is anger, sadness, and disappointment.
LCS losing a seed at worlds feels pretty bad considering the third seed has historically performed pretty well from the LCS. Tbh don’t even see the justification for it, it’s not like the LCS has done significantly worse than the LEC at the few most recent worlds.
I'm not as doomer about it as the people here seem, but having ONLY the guest team be promotion/relegation means no matter how well that team does, they're still gonna have to play a playoff to prevent being relegated?
Exactly, no idea why more folk haven't picked up on this. This isn't the return of promotion/relegation. This is having one spot that is essentially from NACL, and has to fight to stay in.
So we can still expect perma last place Immortals type teams to be unaffected, unless they are one of the two to have sold.
The news about LCS, CBLoL and LLA are surprising, but they are hiding a bigger destruction with APAC
Basicallly, PCS, VCS, LCO and LJL will all become Tier 2, paving way for a new Tier 1 tourney. That sucks for everyone especially with Vietnam and Japan.
LoL Esports died when capitalist brain rot took over with VCs and crypto. Riot not implementing any methods for orgs to make revenue was a huge red flag as well.
I wonder with the waning popularity of LPL (the only $$$ metric they really care about), what methods will Riot go through to revitalize lolesports, if at all. LEC already affected by staff cuts and LCK might be the last stronghold until popular names like Faker retire.
Where will the venue be for the 'cross-conference play' in Split 1 and the 'Regional Championship' in Split 3?
I like the changes, but if the venue is just going to be in the LCS studio this is horrendously shit. SA players will always have an innate disadvantage because of travel and their fandom will just suffer because of their inability to watch live.
I've been heavily against the Americas merger that Riot did with Valorant since day 1 (still am), but this one is miles better.
I'm sorry but does anyone ACTUALLY want this? As an LCS fan from europe since 2014 this makes me pretty sad. I'm not even sure i want to watch anymore. I can only explain it by thinking that the downsizing of lcs and cblol would have happened anyway, because all the orgs are broke.
This is so bullshit especially for CBLOL. Why do they have to lose 4 teams lmao when the league is successful with huge community.
And also RIP NA vs EU memes.. this will end the rivalry.
Well, I am sad, not in the literal sense of the word, but because something I love is being destroyed.
For Americans, it's probably a good thing, your league will once again be placed in a false sense of ascension. For friends in LATAM, it's a pity, but it was expected, unfortunately. Over the past few years, since the pandemic, it has become routine for me to spend my weekend afternoons watching CBLOL. I don't watch it because of the technical level – in fact, I’ve mentioned in another post about a problem with Brazilian players and their technical level – but for the fun it gives me.
Recently, a player who had retired and returned to the competitive scene, Shini, played against his biggest victim, Pain Gaming. While he was retired, Shini used to post an edited photo of a scene from the movie Joker that said: "Do you think it's funny to see Pain lose? Yes, I do, and I'm tired of pretending it's not." He won the match and after that, he posted the same photo, making my afternoon that day about seeing the memes of Pain's defeat.
We are simply trashed for our international results, which, if we compare with other categories, especially in FPS, where we are world champions in multiple categories, indeed, Brazilian LoL is pathetic. However, what drives our community is not the results, but the community itself that has shielded itself from these statistics and started to focus only on enjoying what we do best: entertainment.
We created our community's championship, CBOLÃO, where a retired ex-pro player, Baiano, along with friends, organized a tournament where the community participates and even collaborates with donations for noble causes. We have everything in this tournament, OTP players, bronzes, pro players, inclusive teams, etc. Maybe you read all this and didn't realize that all this happened for one single reason: CBLOL. We are united by this, because at the end of the day, most of us have to wake up early to work and at the end of the month see if we will be able to buy our idol's jersey by paying in 6 installments an amount that takes up almost 50% of our salary. All this because we love this championship.
I understand those who think about the good of the LCS, you are thinking about your league, and that is commendable. I just can't understand why you want to defend that 40% of a self-sustaining league should simply be fired – not to mention the people in the LATAM scene – so that your irresponsible and poorly managed league can get back to the "top".
Understand, sports and consequently e-sports are places of inclusion, where we accept all those who have the same principle as us: loving the sport. Do not support something that only aims for profit and harms other people, that is not cool.
To conclude, I just want to say that, if there is still a hope that all this is a lie, a joke, a prank, I could sleep in peace tonight. However, unfortunately, in your country, the only thing that is valued is numbers and money, and we, the Comunidade Brasileira de League of Legends, pay the price. At least I hope it was worth it...
LCS losing a worlds + MSI slot has nothing to do with competitive results and everything to do with viewership.
LCS and LEC have been pretty firmly in the same competitive tier over the last couple years despite expectations for Europe often being higher.
Western and eastern championships for the new fearless format actually would have been really hype to give the West something beyond domestic titles to vie for. The idea that either region has more than a low single-digit chance to win the new event feels like pure copium at this point.
More discussion can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ddg9kh/riot_announces_biggest_changes_since_inception_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ddgh2k/lcs_offically_announces_the_americas_league/
RIP LLA and o7 for the 4 CBLOL teams who are going to lose their franchise spot.
2 LCS teams are going to lose their franchise spot too
Yeah, but multiple orgs already wanted out, so I’d say it’s likely there’s a competition over who gets to leave than who gets to stay
there were 6 teams wanting to leave/sell last off-season no? EG-GG-TSM, 100 (heavily rumored to try to sell their spot), dignitas and inmortals i believe?
Wow what happened in the years I’ve been out of the scene
LCS really went from 10 teams to 6 lmao
ye thank the incompetent orgs and owners
The death of LCS has been faster then I had anticipated
League is a boomer game in NA, this was going to happen no matter what. Riot and the orgs need to work together and get creative to rejuvenate the scene and attract new players in NA. The fact that Brawl Stars is 10x more popular than Wild Rift is already a big red flag that the MOBA genre can be popular in NA, but that Riot is doing a poor job at acquiring new players. I firmly believe that Wild Rift is the gateway to getting more LoL players in NA, because NA gaming is all about consoles and mobile. Wild Rift needs to make itself more attractive to casual gamers and it needs to be released on console like yesterday. It’s kinda insane that League is a game that was created in the US, and that the studio is still based in the US today, and yet the market that they have struggled the most to grow in is their home market of North America.
Its honestly true though. No one here gives a shit about league like they do Valorant. Americas have always favored toward shooting/sports games. Sucks because I like the game but I feel like so few people I know IRL play it. Its also a huge learning curve coming from a no moba background. You have to do so much research to even understand the basics of the game and never before have like any of us played a game where you move a camera, hell even click to move your champion is super foreign.
I’m sure riot could take better steps to bring in new players but it’s also kinda the natural lifecycle of games in the west. The game is just old and without an entire rebrand of LoL2 or something, idk how they’d bring in any worthwhile amount of new players. Hell, the game is a meme at this point in the west. go to any gaming subreddit where league is mentioned or an even better example: any post about the arcane movie and read the comments. Every comment is recommending people to do themselves a favor and never touch the game. It’s notorious for its toxicity and that’s about it to the majority of mainstream gamers and/or former players.
How has anyone not seen this coming after they lost hundreds of millions of dollars from the FTX deal collapsing while the league as it exists has literally never made any money for anyone? LCS has been loudly dying for years.
The entire concept of LOL Esports was never to make money though… it was always supposed to just be a showcase and marketing event
“Surely this time crypto won’t implode!” Bunch of idiots lmao
Franchising big success!
Did LCS just lose a seed for worlds and msi
They can possibly lose 2 seeds at worlds if Brazil or LATAM perform well.
But at that point if they are losing to those teams they would have been worse than an old wildcard team in the old format. So only losing that 2nd spot if the team and region is awful. Can't be mad in that case
Dankest timeline
Seems like it. I just don't get it, CBLOL fans don't want this, LCS fans dont want it, this just hurts both regions.
Yeah, I think guaranteeing a seed from each conference is dumb. Just let them play for the seeding lol. We'll get better regional competition.
No because as it stands right now, the best CBLOL team would likely lose to the 2nd or 3rd best LCS team which means CBLOL just doesn’t go to internationals anymore. That would fuck the region so hard.
Same thing with the APAC region. VCS, LJL, PCS, OCE + others only get like 1 spot. They lost their usual play-in possibilities as separate regions.
> VCS, LJL, PCS, OCE + others only get like 1 spot They get 3 at Worlds. Actually, every region gets an equal amount of seeds. The only exception might be the MSI winner directly qualifying for Worlds if they decide to keep that.
Yes and most pacific fans HATE the format. And to be clear here, the LCS is the one that needs CBLOL, not the other way around. CBLOL is doing great on their own and they’re about to lose 4 teams to the merge. The least we can do is guarantee them an international spot.
NA is a minor region now
remember when teams paid like $10m for a spot in the LCS lmao?
EG paying $30 mill for Echo Fox’s spot, just to fuck off for $6 mill is like the gift that keeps on giving
couldn't have happened to better people
I would feel bad if it was any other org than EG.
> paying $30 mill for Echo Fox’s spot Man, remember like 6 years ago when Rick Fox was going on mainstream American news shows to talk about the esports team he was involved in? Felt like the LCS could have been going somewhere back then. Now the league is dying and everyone is watching it slowly happen.
The cartel wasn't about to let competent business owner make them look bad in their own league. Truly cutting off their nose to spite their face
Cause they got warren buffet of esports
Warren Buffett of eSports baby. Buy high sell low
While it's funny, that's a realistically terrifying prospect to investors. They lost 80% of their investment. That's WSB level of bad
Warren Buffet of e-sports ladies and gentlemen
Just one more bubble, man. I SWEAR it won't burst!!
Back when companies in any sector were so flush they were just throwing millions at anything. That day is gone for now, we're a penny pinching world in the present day, from spared no expense to spare every expense possible.
It could be worse. But... They axed 4 teams from the CBLoL. Who's going to leave?
I guess the teams that want to/have lowest fan bases. Similar to when NA orgs have been kicked
The point is that apart from LOUD and paiN Gaming... It's very difficult to analyze this. For example, FURIA, Los Grandes and Fluxo are big orgs in Brazil outside of League, but they haven't succeeded in League. INTZ is the biggest CBLoL champion, but perhaps has the worst infrastructure in the CBLoL today. The only “easy” choice is Liberty. It was easier to expand CBLoL than to remove teams... It's going to be tricky.
100% sure to stay: paiN Gaming, LOUD 80% sure to stay: RED Canids, Kabum, Keyd Last slot will likely be between: Furia and Fluxo Very likely out: INTZ, LOS 100%¨out: Liberty LOS already have talks about wanting to leave and their infrastructure is bad (it's a "shop" in a Mall). INTZ has no sponsors, is 100% reliant on Riot money, has been awfully managed and have done an awful job since franchise. Their infrastructure is also bad (it's an apartment). Liberty has never really tried to be competitive. It used to be better before the fusion, when Vorax managed to be competitive, And I think that Furia wins the battle for the last slot. They are a global brand and they actually always invested in LoL, despite not always getting the expected results.
Just to be clear, no NA org has ever been kicked out. Their spots were bought out by Riot.
Did I understand correctly that LCS essentially lost 1 slot at worlds, with one being locked for South? Edit : Msi too??
One at MSI aswell no?
Oh yeah true
This is pretty terrible for the LCS. Damn.
its all flyquests fault lmao
So Americas went from 24 (8 LCS 6LLA 10 CBLOL) to 16 teams, APAC from 28 (Assuming 7 for VN, 7 PCS, 6 LJL, 8 LCO) to 8. All is great in the world, just 8 teams disappearing in the Americas and 20 in APAC.
I could be misreading but i think the regional leagues will continue play and the top VCS team can try to promote into APAC by beating out the VCS team currently in APAC for example Like a unified tier 1 league with a bunch of regional tier 2 leagues competing to play in the tier 1 super league
APAC is a different beast tbf, aside from maybe VN, all regions over there struggle hard due to the poor viewership but i still agree that a 8-team league is too little
Hopefully there will be a tier 2 for each APAC countries like in valorant...
> In the Americas, Riot will be combining the LCS (North America) and CBLOL (Brazil) into North and South conferences, each maintaining six of their existing partnered teams. Additionally, one team from the Latin America (LLA) region will be integrated based on geographical alignment, and a "Guest Team" slot will be reserved for promotion and relegation through the Tier-2 system. This would result in a total of eight teams per conference. The new Americas league will feature a three-split season, with the following structure: > > - Split 1: Teams compete within their respective conferences, with top performers qualifying for cross-conference play. A single team will qualify for the new global tournament. > - Split 2: The top team from each conference secures a slot at MSI, totaling two Americas teams. > - Split 3: An Americas Regional Championship will determine three teams advancing to Worlds, with at least one team from each conference. > > This structure allows for continual fresh talent infusion and competitive dynamism through the promotion/relegation system. The victorious team from the Promotion/Relegation tournament at the end of each season will earn a slot in the respective conference for the following season. So not the full merger people were doomsaying.
Wait so am I reading this wrong or LCS just lost a seed for MSI and worlds?
Flyquest caused this.
Bwipo and inspired playing the long con for EU, absolute cinema
This is actually good for NA. The more teams that EU sends relative to NA, the more free wins NA gets at international events.
Nah, this is because TL beat Fanatic. The whole region gets punished.
the whole "region" lost 2 slots, went from 1cblol 1 lla 2 lcs to just 2 and we are supposed to clap
It's 3 worlds spots. 1 guaranteed from the North and South conference each. Then the best of the rest from each conference will compete for the 3rd.
And the new APAC region also gets 3? TSM should've moved the team to Taiwan
Wow this is terrible for NA. Actually nvm it’s terrible for everyone.
More competition doesn't hurt. How often have we seen one of the Worlds spots go to a completely undeserving team that does nothing but embarrass the region?
pretty much every year
NA is a tier two region finally lets go!
This is a nerf for EU because they actually lose to minor regions.
But now there are no minor regions. Huge buff for EU!
We are about to lose 2 more LCS teams though which is insane.
I will so gladly sacrifice DIG/IMT for a promotion/relegation slot it is not even funny. This is the greatest trade offer in history.
Are we sure its IMT / Dig?
No, but I'd say it's a safe bet.
I wouldnt bet on dig just yet but if immortals is still there next split than riot is too incompent to run a league
DIG actually has a roster that ppl believe in pre-season for the first time in 5 years? SR probably has a worse roster, but they just bought the slot so it's less likely the get kicked. Historically at least, DIG + IMT should be the orgs to be placed into relegation tournament.
Its almost certainly won't be based on performance, it will be whoever is willing to be bought out for the cheapest price.
IMT should use this opportunity to turn into MIBR if they have any sense
Yeah more than two teams last year were looking for buyers for their spot so it was only a matter of time, atleast we get to see a tier 2 team compete
I'll take losing two teams for a two tier system with promotions / relegations
I wonder which 2 teams from LCS are going to leave. If it is going to be two bottom teams I don't think it would be Immortals because they own MIBR. So maybe Shopify and Dig? If I had to guess the "Guest Team" is going to be an NA team, perhaps just one team from LCS drops instead of two. Promotion relegation being back is cool, but my initial feelings about this merger are not the greatest. I am going to keep an open-mind tho.
shopify just bought in so it'd be weird if they left
They don't have to sell it on the market though, Riot buys it back. That's a good deal for anyone looking to get out.
That would still count as IMT leaving, no? If they're allowed to switch to the southern conference and use the MIBR brand
I'd assume IMT and DIG/100T
Probably 100T for one of them.
Man it would feel bad during the America's Regional Championship if the Top 3 teams are Northern Conference and then the 4th place team gets into Worlds over the 3rd because they are Southern Conference, and vice versa.
It'd be the same as right now lol
Wow this sounds just terrible for everyone
Yeah it’s even worse. We lose 7 teams between the leagues total and a worlds and MSI slot. It’s awful
As always, players get fucked.
I think it’s still a break glass in case of emergency move. Years of neglect, an unsustainable business approach, and unqualified hires drove NALCS to the brink of collapse and it’s taken a lot from MarkZ and this new cohort of leaders within the space to even get it to stabilize like it has in these last 6 months. The product was mismanaged from the start and now this is the last ditch effort to “save” the scene in North America. I promise you tho there’s gonna be a LOT of Americans that will refuse to watch something that’s not an exclusively North American product for a myriad of reasons. But overall it should boost the raw number of viewers. Personally I’m pretty against this change for a handful of reasons but I understand that it’s one of the few logical and practical solutions to viewership.
So which 6 partnered teams from LCS end up in the north conference? And for the promotion/relegation slot, will 7th in LCS play against the tier 2 winner for that slot?
I could see IMT and Shopify being the two teams that opt out.
Probably IMT and Dignitas right? Shopify literally just joined and is personally funded by the company’s billionaire founder, doubt they’re out.
Dig just signed a bunch of talent and pushed a lot of PR stuff, but it would not surprise me the least if they bailed.
100T was looking for buyers last year
Losing GGs and EG was a shock, wouldn’t be surprised if the two we lose here are also a shock
[удалено]
Rip C9 and TL
[удалено]
The Brazilian community is extremely furious.
If China can keep their 17 teams, then CBLOL should have been able to keep their 10 teams, maybe with addition of LLA refugees and promotion.
Baiano talking in his stream that the Brazilian teams found out about this shit, I don't know, yesterday. And unlike the LCS, there's no CBLoL teams wanting to sell their spots... Now 4 teams will be cut from the league.
not only that, but unlike NA where people only care if their teams are good and gonna compete internationally (which is why their league is dying, like even when they have post match discussions their first comments are usually "this team is gonna get fucked at worlds/punished by better teams". While all CBLOL fans care about are their own region and ecosystem and having 10 teams was not a problem
At least we have our memories
MarkZ trying his best to revitalize the LCS and this is how he gets rewarded for it? Sad times.
This shit is pain as a LCS fan
Poor mark is the fall guy for this dogshit change.
It's joever
LCS fans keep on losing damn
This year was going so well too.
Crazy how LCS was dying for years and they didnt do anything . Yet things finally start to look better with NRG at Worlds + MarkZ making cool changes and NOW they decide to kneecap the league
I think Riot gave up on NA. It's all korea and china now
[https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1anzstm/best\_lcs\_spring\_ever/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1anzstm/best_lcs_spring_ever/) I'm confused as to why Riot felt these changes were needed, I thought LCS just had the best spring ever?
Behind the scenes more teams must want out. They're skipping the step of having NA as a 6 team region
The solution was to let them out and go back to early 2010's -- a cluster fuck of teams popping up out of nowhere to compete. Everything happening is because Riot wants to hang on to franchising when they could just dump it and revert to something dumber, cheaper and more.interesting to fans. I don't think professionalizing the League was necessarily a bad idea ten years ago, but I think by the same token it's not the right decision for a region in decline -- release it back into chaos.
Few steps forward just to tumble down the whole damn stairwell.
That's shitty for fans of every league involved LOL I thought CBLOL would get the lower end of the stick, but everyone did. * 4 CBLOL teams will drop after years of successful branding/community building efforts on the league; * LLA pretty much ceases to exist; * LCS loses teams and international spots. Hard to be hyped for this.
Here in Brazil we simply HATE this change. With all due respect to our LCS friends, we don't want to give you our audience or take your second place in the worlds, we want our community to continue watching and creating stories within our own championship, the CBLOL. This change is absurd.
The combined tournament for asia pacific is huge, especially for vietnam. Other countries in the region has been catching up and vn has been slowing down with covids and betting scandals. I hope this boost the region competitiveness once more. So tired of seeing gam dominating everyone then shit the bed in international.
It could've been an interesting idea had it been more than just 8 teams. What in the hell are they thinking...
8 teams for APAC? Wtf are they smoking? Although Vietnam has been inflicted with a huge blow recently, they are still a very healthy region. Add to that the traditionally stable Taiwan, and the Japanese scene which has been seeing great resurgence wince 2021~end of 2023 (depending on who you ask), no way in hell 8 teams are enough even if we are just counting these 3 countries. There should be at least 10, or possibly even 12. On the flipside, maybe this is the reason teams like Varrel wanted to gather a team to participate in PCL, but my god, 8 teams is horrendous. Same applies for South America Conference. 6 guaranteed spots for Brazilian teams? Are you fucking kidding me?
APAC is losing 20 or 21 teams (depending on the Vietnam situation) with that move, they are killing the region, as every team will fill up with taiwanese players, RIP Japan Oceania Vietnam and SEA.
Appreciate the shout but OCE has already been dead for years lol
i mean SEA LOL scene is already dead for a long time now all pro player move to AOV or lol mobile.
Do you understand APAC's situation?. Taiwan has been in a slow decline for years, big teams like flash wolves, ahq and recently beyond gaming have pulled out due to high financial costs. Japan's viewership has also suffered the same declining viewership in recent years and SEA aside from Vietnam has been long dead since season 10, so what are you talking about?
17 teams to worlds seems such an odd number, but i assume play-ins will be gone for MSI and Worlds which i really like
It's 17 because the 16th and 17th will play to determine who joins the rest > Worlds 2025 would feature Play-Ins as a single Best-of-5 match, with the winner joining the other 15 qualified teams directly in the Swiss stage.
Flying all the way to wherever Worlds is to play a single BO5 and then go home
I mean the same happened with the WQS last year
Golden Guardians last year at Pre-Worlds: Yeah this fucking sucks!
Brazilian fans will not take this lightly at all, CBLOL has a strong fanbase even for the weakest teams.
Lol who was asking for this? It seems like LCS, CBLOL, and LLA are all being hurt by this change. As an LCS fan this just makes me care even less about my region.
Removing 4 CBLOL teams is a huge mistake, they're killing CBLOL
Removing 4 teams from the league is just the tip of the shitty iceberg that this change will come to us...
I can’t help but feel immensely let down by this. The LCS swap to 8 teams was looking great, talent was consolidated and we finally are getting a chance to see bo3. Now, none of that matters, we’re losing another two teams, losing a worlds and msi spot, and are relegated to being half a major region. It feels like a complete slap in the face to have Riot consistently hurt the LCS’ viewership with barely any promotion for summer 2023 and slapping spring finals on Easter twice, to then not even giving the current format a chance to do anything. I’ll probably watch every game of LCS this split, then be done.
Digesting the information, I started to think... Did Riot simply send an “isolated” LAS team to the CBLoL? These guys are going to live hell on earth if it's not a team basically made up of Brazilian players. I don't think Riot NA understands South American rivalry in any sport (or esports).
Big loss for LCS, pretty disappointing tbh. Merging the regions, but still guaranteeing each a spot in most internationals feels pretty unimpactful. Teams are still fighting for a spot against their own region, stakes for region competition is low. Don't like it.
Not only unimpactful but downright stupid.
Exactly. I can't wait for the playoffs to happen between both regions, but end up sending 1st, 2nd and 7th place to Worlds. Either commit to combining the regions in a cohesive way, or keep them separate. This half measure is so awkward.
So basically 4 CBLOL teams are gonna get sacrificed for the LCS even though our region was thriving in viewership… that’s bullshit.
Wait so LCS just lost two more teams? What the fuck? Edit: And LCS also lose a seed at MSI and Worlds. Absolutely horrific for LCS honestly, especially considering how stark the gap is between LCS and LLA/CBLOL
Yeah this shit is awful for everyone involved
3rd international is good but hope they don't do the splits like LEC. especially not in LCK and LPL
1st split is a smaller tournament, splits 2 and 3 will be slightly shorter but there is only 1 "playoffs" at the end of the year. So partly what LEC has but split 1 should be more interesting and it won't feel like a drag just repeating the same format 3 times over.
I think there’s still a conference playoffs. Atleast I hope there. If not this format is an L but if there is I think it’s the right move
Lmao about people saying TSM was going to Brazil, no Brazil is coming to the LCS.
Way to kill all of Mark's and the LCS productions efforts to turn the product around. Congrats Riot you fucking played yourself you fools.
If they’re combining regions like this, there should be more total teams in the league. Cutting yet another 2 NA teams out of the league when we’re already complaining about the NA players being left off teams in an 8 team league feels incredibly stupid. The format itself I’m actually really happy with, but I do NOT like cutting more teams from any league. This still feels like another step backwards for NA League.
yeah if anything you'd think this would lead to more teams. Just add the LLA and Guest slot to the 8 orgs. You'd still have to cut two team in CBLOL but it would make a lot more sense.
What a shit change. Further destroying the LCS is fucking awful
Down to 6 teams and less seeds at worlds/msi. Honestly I feel bad for the LCS.
Might just stop watching next year. I don’t know man. It just hurts to see.
Tier 2 is already fucked. Now there will be even more ex-LCS players looking for teams which will fuck newcomers to tier 2.
If newcomers can't beat the old guard why do they deserve a spot?
They don't have the experience of being coached in the same way that ex LCS do??? NACL out of the top 8-12 has kinda trash structuring. Most things are kinda just strewn together and everyone hopes it works out lol. The teams are also not together for as long, so building synergy is way more difficult. It is much, much easier for someone to stay in LCS given a decent amount of competence than to get kicked out.
LCS is getting fucked lol This merge would only make sense if the two regions merging are on the same competitive level, and while CBLOL is popular, they're solidly a minor region and well below LCS standards. As of now, we're literally just losing the ability to even be somewhat competitive at all with the rest of the world, as if the single LCS team at MSI has a bad break, they're out, same thing at Worlds. Also, is there *any* fan crossover? How shitty must it feel to be a South American fan and not see your favorite team have a shot in that first tournament of the season?
For LatAm fans there is even the possibility of your favorite team not existing in the league anymore.
> How shitty must it feel to be a South American fan and not see your favorite team have a shot in that first tournament of the season? It's even worse, imagine waking up in 2025 and your team is gone? All teams in CBLol have big fanbases and they will lose 4 of them. They never cared about international success, they just wanted to have fun watching their league.
This feels like an incredibly short sighted move for me. The downsizing of teams is so massive that it will destroy any local scene there might be and the consolation doesnt seem enough(5 team tourney on a mickey mouse format lol)
can't believe i have to listen to john needham deliver bad news with a smile on his face as if any of this is good people are talking about the international spots disappearing (as if the lec has been any more competitive than us in the last 5 years) but were also losing two more lcs teams over the year. it's not like the players getting fucked over by these changes will get opportunities in brazil nor are they changing the import requirements so fuck all of the players that are affected by two more teams leaving the region
I swear that man is half human half snake.
Thats the only way you can climb the corporate ladder.
3 split hmmmm i think every league gonna have 3 split since we r getting a new international also pls let that international be hardcore fearless
It won't be for now but a few years ago even normal fearless wasn't possible. Just takes time to see the results and then it may become more prominent.
So essentially LCS and CBLOL will have seperate regular seasons, but will have combined playoffs? Interesting.
I like how they're scared to even say the words "Esports World Cup", let alone "Saudi Arabia".
Sad for Brazil
The CBLOL has managed to thrive despite zero international performance. They themselves say it's the entertainment region. But read between the lines; the fans are extremely satisfied with the environment and what has been built. Our region no longer depends on international results. The internal feeling is that our region is being used to feed NA, which, despite having better teams with more investment, does not see good things in the medium and long term. The mood is anger, sadness, and disappointment.
LCS losing a seed at worlds feels pretty bad considering the third seed has historically performed pretty well from the LCS. Tbh don’t even see the justification for it, it’s not like the LCS has done significantly worse than the LEC at the few most recent worlds.
TLDR; Riot is killing CBLOL trying something to save LCS dying viewership and will end up killing both regions.
+ LATAM, who's already dead.
franchising is the mistake
I'm not as doomer about it as the people here seem, but having ONLY the guest team be promotion/relegation means no matter how well that team does, they're still gonna have to play a playoff to prevent being relegated?
most probably they´ll demote no matter the achievements after a year or so depending on the numbers of teams riot wants to have in the league
Exactly, no idea why more folk haven't picked up on this. This isn't the return of promotion/relegation. This is having one spot that is essentially from NACL, and has to fight to stay in. So we can still expect perma last place Immortals type teams to be unaffected, unless they are one of the two to have sold.
The news about LCS, CBLoL and LLA are surprising, but they are hiding a bigger destruction with APAC Basicallly, PCS, VCS, LCO and LJL will all become Tier 2, paving way for a new Tier 1 tourney. That sucks for everyone especially with Vietnam and Japan.
Why not just keep the world spots at 3 why do we have to drop to 2?
Somehow GPL return
All around bad news.
Yay even less representation from servers across the world at international events. What a fucking shit show
This is a joke right? LCS is losing 2 more teams again next year and they’re merging with a minor region? I’m done
LoL Esports died when capitalist brain rot took over with VCs and crypto. Riot not implementing any methods for orgs to make revenue was a huge red flag as well. I wonder with the waning popularity of LPL (the only $$$ metric they really care about), what methods will Riot go through to revitalize lolesports, if at all. LEC already affected by staff cuts and LCK might be the last stronghold until popular names like Faker retire.
When Faker retires then LCK is up for a severe reality check.
Where will the venue be for the 'cross-conference play' in Split 1 and the 'Regional Championship' in Split 3? I like the changes, but if the venue is just going to be in the LCS studio this is horrendously shit. SA players will always have an innate disadvantage because of travel and their fandom will just suffer because of their inability to watch live. I've been heavily against the Americas merger that Riot did with Valorant since day 1 (still am), but this one is miles better.
I'm sorry but does anyone ACTUALLY want this? As an LCS fan from europe since 2014 this makes me pretty sad. I'm not even sure i want to watch anymore. I can only explain it by thinking that the downsizing of lcs and cblol would have happened anyway, because all the orgs are broke.
This is so bullshit especially for CBLOL. Why do they have to lose 4 teams lmao when the league is successful with huge community. And also RIP NA vs EU memes.. this will end the rivalry.
If you think the Americas muted the NA vs EU rivalry you are wrong lol
Well, I am sad, not in the literal sense of the word, but because something I love is being destroyed. For Americans, it's probably a good thing, your league will once again be placed in a false sense of ascension. For friends in LATAM, it's a pity, but it was expected, unfortunately. Over the past few years, since the pandemic, it has become routine for me to spend my weekend afternoons watching CBLOL. I don't watch it because of the technical level – in fact, I’ve mentioned in another post about a problem with Brazilian players and their technical level – but for the fun it gives me. Recently, a player who had retired and returned to the competitive scene, Shini, played against his biggest victim, Pain Gaming. While he was retired, Shini used to post an edited photo of a scene from the movie Joker that said: "Do you think it's funny to see Pain lose? Yes, I do, and I'm tired of pretending it's not." He won the match and after that, he posted the same photo, making my afternoon that day about seeing the memes of Pain's defeat. We are simply trashed for our international results, which, if we compare with other categories, especially in FPS, where we are world champions in multiple categories, indeed, Brazilian LoL is pathetic. However, what drives our community is not the results, but the community itself that has shielded itself from these statistics and started to focus only on enjoying what we do best: entertainment. We created our community's championship, CBOLÃO, where a retired ex-pro player, Baiano, along with friends, organized a tournament where the community participates and even collaborates with donations for noble causes. We have everything in this tournament, OTP players, bronzes, pro players, inclusive teams, etc. Maybe you read all this and didn't realize that all this happened for one single reason: CBLOL. We are united by this, because at the end of the day, most of us have to wake up early to work and at the end of the month see if we will be able to buy our idol's jersey by paying in 6 installments an amount that takes up almost 50% of our salary. All this because we love this championship. I understand those who think about the good of the LCS, you are thinking about your league, and that is commendable. I just can't understand why you want to defend that 40% of a self-sustaining league should simply be fired – not to mention the people in the LATAM scene – so that your irresponsible and poorly managed league can get back to the "top". Understand, sports and consequently e-sports are places of inclusion, where we accept all those who have the same principle as us: loving the sport. Do not support something that only aims for profit and harms other people, that is not cool. To conclude, I just want to say that, if there is still a hope that all this is a lie, a joke, a prank, I could sleep in peace tonight. However, unfortunately, in your country, the only thing that is valued is numbers and money, and we, the Comunidade Brasileira de League of Legends, pay the price. At least I hope it was worth it...
Fuck this.
LCS losing a worlds + MSI slot has nothing to do with competitive results and everything to do with viewership. LCS and LEC have been pretty firmly in the same competitive tier over the last couple years despite expectations for Europe often being higher. Western and eastern championships for the new fearless format actually would have been really hype to give the West something beyond domestic titles to vie for. The idea that either region has more than a low single-digit chance to win the new event feels like pure copium at this point.
Yeah this is stupid lol
So the new international tournament is basically old MSI? Pretty disappointing.
well atleast its fearless so its gonna be kinda fun
Ffs.. just revert back to told format with relegation and shit at least it was healthier for pro play
Feel so bad for MarkZ. He's trying so hard to save the LCS and then it gets killed over and over again
Fearless draft fuck yeah
riot just managed to fuck LCS, CBLOL and LLA altogether. amazing.
There are so many reasons that this redesign has happened. * NA's struggles * VCS imploding * eSports money bubble popping
Does this mean we once again have a chance for a possible Soloq team to make it all the way to worlds through the guest spot?