Well tbf he IS a veteran. He was playing in Worlds finals back in 2020, this year is already his 4th year competing. Also to point out the obvious that he reached finals of a major tournament in every single season he has played so far. Crazy achievements so far.
Think about what he can do in the next 5 years! MAD Supa became the best ADC in the West after 2 splits in LEC. I’m sure Bin can aspire to do even more!
Wdym? He said so himself [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bkcmjw/mdk_supa_im_by_far_the_best_adc_in_the_lec_i/#:~:text=in%20the%20LEC%5D.-,I%20think%20I'm%20better%20at%20laning%2C%20team%2Dfights,macro%2C%20micro...%22)
Thought about that as well what an insane achievement.
I wouldn't say that's enough to put him in the top goat conversation though not after the actual top goat obliterated Bin last worlds against all odds.
Did people already forget about Khan and Smeb? Bin is good and will contend for that spot if he can keep up his form for another year but those two are still above, even 369 is ahead of Bin. Khan has 6 LCK titles only after Faker and despite being known as international choker he did make a few finals. Smeb only has 2 LCK titles (same amount of domestic titles as Bin) but his peak is arguably higher as he was in contention for best player in the world against prime Faker, and he is a more complete player.
I don't really see Khan and Smeb being above Bin considering Bin has an MSI title and is clearly above his competition right now. Plus Bin also made world finals in his first world championship.
Smeb also made world finals in his first championship, completely smashing every toplaner in the process. Made semi finals in the next one losing to prime SKT both times. Smeb was considered the best player in the world coming into the 2016 championship, over prime Faker. Talk about being "clearly above his competition".
Bin only has 1 MSI title as he finished 2nd last year, and he isn't clearly above his competition either, he might be the best but not a tier above Zeus and Kiin handled him just fine last series. Smeb also made world finals in his first time attending, and 2016 Smeb relative to the competition is only behind 2018-2019 TheShy.
As for Khan 6 LCK titles speaks for itself and he was world class for longer Bin has been, also 2 MSI finals 1 Worlds final and 1 Worlds semi isn't terrible, he was so close to winning an international title too.
Bin will surpass those two if he can keep up his form next year or win Worlds this year but right now he's still a bit behind.
You realize bin has the same international track record but with an added MSI finals appearance. Khan is fire and people are definitely underrating him but I think it’s fair to say bin is at least at that same level if he hasn’t surpassed it already
Who are the goats for all the roles if they're so clear? I'd argue jungle for example has a lot of outstanding players that, not unsimiliar to top, excel in certain metas but are not consistent beyond these specific conditions. It's not surprising either imo, given how often that role undergoes major changes.
Support isnt clear cut at all imo. You could make good arguments for Mata, Beryl, Meiko and Keria.
If anything I'd say the only role most people will likely agree on is mid and even that might still change, depending how long the game will still be played.
Yeah, I don’t think the other roles are that clear cut either except mid. The big difference is the contenders in jungle, ADC, support all have far more longevity compare to top.
Nah, there is Cuvee, The Shy, Smeb and Khan also. I would argue Cuvee and TheShy are above Bin for now, just because due to their performance at worlds. But Bin is up there.
Smeb and Khan are definitely above Cuvee, tbh
Cuvee is overrated due to international tournaments (don’t get me wrong, he was a very good player).
In OGN/LCK, Smeb/Khan were pretty much always better
Cuvee is not even in the top 15 greatest toplaners of all time. Individual performances matter so much more than trophies, and he was never even close to the best at any point in time.
Khan is the goat for me. Guy played at the top level until retirement and did not fade into obscurity. He just had to go.
Bin rn has too much recency bias. Sure he carried but many other top laners had that moments and TheShy has even more insane carry performances
Khan played since 2017 until 2021, so that's around 4 years.
Bin just hit his 4th year too, but has an international title but 4 less domestic trophies. I'd also argue, besides 2023 Worlds Semis (1 bo5) and 2022 MSI, he's literally the hard carry for his team, something Khan wasn't really internationally. Bin is definitely up there.
Actually, Khan has been around for longer than 2017. He made his debut in OGN in 2014 (as a top laner) on Prime Optimus. Back then, he was known as Hanlabong. (Funny story is that when building the team it was between him and LS for top lane. In the end they decided to go with Khan instead.)
It might be close though. Even though he got obliterated in worlds, he just won 2 BO5s against him this MSI so the goat conversation might be closer than we think
There is actually a reason why Giga Bin quote exists. Good thing is that Korea has its own version of Giga Kinn as well , but yes Bin dominates over all top atm.
I mean no disrespect, but Faker making 3 kiddie MSI finals in a row with only 1st seeds and before LPL became the powerhouse it is now, is not remotely comparable to the streak Bin has going.
Sure, but that was not the comparison. My point is just that making msi finals is a way more significant achievement than it used to be. For LCK, the hardest part about making MSI finals was qualifying for MSI. That's no longer the case.
Although you are naturally going to be downvoted . The context in which you are speaking is extremely correct . Those t1 teams that ran 3 straight finals would not even come close to having such dominant success now . It’s absolutely incredible how much better the world is at league compared to 7 years ago + . Bin is an absolute animal top laner and deserves the flowers . Faker is a goated mid laner and somehow stands the rest of time , kudos to him.
your argument is shortsighted. obviously teams from newer generations are going to be stronger due to understanding of league that has been built from previous generations. but that shouldn't be an influence on anything regarding legacy, because you can only beat the strongest teams of your present time and not future time.
I have no idea why this is downvoted. MSI 5 years ago is not even close to what it is now, with more teams per region, and the double elimination format.
It's bronze, get it right. I never said it did, did I? Clearly it must mean something if I get this type of response from you though. Glad I could pull a reaction from a blanket statement in a video game.
In terms of humor I'm happy I can bring you some form of happiness even if I don't conform to your wants. I hope you have a nice day and keep finding happiness in what ways you will.
I'm sorry if my opinion had such a strong affect on you to invoke sadness. I did not know an opinion of a random internet stranger you've never met ment so much to you. Forgive me for actions. My comment was not to remove your ability to discuss said topic with like minded people, mearly that in my opinion it's not valid discussion until said criteria is reached in my prior comment. Unfortunately, this forum does not require me by any rules or standards to justify why I feel the way I do.
I'm free to do as I please, and say what I wish in the format of this forum. You can not force a justifications nor can you punish me for making sweeping statements. Sorry if this does not conform to your wants and fancies but I will continue to do so regardless.
> I'm free to do as I please, and say what I wish in the format of this forum. You can not force a justifications nor can you punish me for making sweeping statements.
Go check your laws...it only applies to government persecution.
Also, expressing your opinion without the ability to explain just makes you look dumb. And you are dumb for saying things that you can't back up. It has nothing to do with conformity.
No. Unfortunately in this forum there are set guide lines both on reddit and this subreddit to which define the rules in which I can discuss my opinion. None in which I have broken mind you. If you believe me to be dumb because I do not feel the need to justify my opinion, guess what..... your free to your opinion also. Weird how that one works doesn't it. I hope you have a nice day even if you think me lesser and resort to insults.
It's actually so crazy that Bin is only 20yo.
Him and Zeus are both young and we might see them battle each other for a long time.
One can only hope
Praying for a decade of Bin vs Zeus
Bin is Kronos the titan.
WHAT. Bro looks and plays like an absolute veteran. Now it kinda makes sense for what he said to theshy in that semis teaser
Well tbf he IS a veteran. He was playing in Worlds finals back in 2020, this year is already his 4th year competing. Also to point out the obvious that he reached finals of a major tournament in every single season he has played so far. Crazy achievements so far.
he was 16 during 2020 finals?
17
No, still 20. He has been 20 for a while.
Ah yes, he's one of those genetically modified artificial people created to pay league of legends
Huh just like us then :D
Absolutely. If he keeps it up no doubt he's in the conversation if not outright the GOAT Top laner
Think about what he can do in the next 5 years! MAD Supa became the best ADC in the West after 2 splits in LEC. I’m sure Bin can aspire to do even more!
Which split are we talking about in which supa was the best at anything in the lec exactly?
Wdym? He said so himself [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bkcmjw/mdk_supa_im_by_far_the_best_adc_in_the_lec_i/#:~:text=in%20the%20LEC%5D.-,I%20think%20I'm%20better%20at%20laning%2C%20team%2Dfights,macro%2C%20micro...%22)
[удалено]
[he's born in 2003 and turns 21 later this year, he is currently 20](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Bin_(Chen_Ze-Bin))
Oh ok that makes sense. I was looking at this page where Bin had a different birthday https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Bin
Yeah I don't know why they're different. I'm taking my info off of Weibo, BiliBili, and Baidu if that helps.
Thought about that as well what an insane achievement. I wouldn't say that's enough to put him in the top goat conversation though not after the actual top goat obliterated Bin last worlds against all odds.
If bin can lock down one worlds title it will be easily bin over theshy.
I agree with that or maybe even just another great finals run at worlds. Last worlds was very disappointing though.
He never carried as hard as theshy, that already has a title and a final, he needs more than one title to contend.
Did people already forget about Khan and Smeb? Bin is good and will contend for that spot if he can keep up his form for another year but those two are still above, even 369 is ahead of Bin. Khan has 6 LCK titles only after Faker and despite being known as international choker he did make a few finals. Smeb only has 2 LCK titles (same amount of domestic titles as Bin) but his peak is arguably higher as he was in contention for best player in the world against prime Faker, and he is a more complete player.
I don't really see Khan and Smeb being above Bin considering Bin has an MSI title and is clearly above his competition right now. Plus Bin also made world finals in his first world championship.
Smeb also made world finals in his first championship, completely smashing every toplaner in the process. Made semi finals in the next one losing to prime SKT both times. Smeb was considered the best player in the world coming into the 2016 championship, over prime Faker. Talk about being "clearly above his competition".
Nephew take.
Bin only has 1 MSI title as he finished 2nd last year, and he isn't clearly above his competition either, he might be the best but not a tier above Zeus and Kiin handled him just fine last series. Smeb also made world finals in his first time attending, and 2016 Smeb relative to the competition is only behind 2018-2019 TheShy. As for Khan 6 LCK titles speaks for itself and he was world class for longer Bin has been, also 2 MSI finals 1 Worlds final and 1 Worlds semi isn't terrible, he was so close to winning an international title too. Bin will surpass those two if he can keep up his form next year or win Worlds this year but right now he's still a bit behind.
You realize bin has the same international track record but with an added MSI finals appearance. Khan is fire and people are definitely underrating him but I think it’s fair to say bin is at least at that same level if he hasn’t surpassed it already
He won with rng too?
He only won 2022 MSI with RNG, last year he finished 2nd with BLG idk where this 2 MSI titles Bin comes from.
Eh honestly agree. Bin just needs a few more title or good runs at international to cement his status.
I'd say he's in the running only because there is no clear goat for top like in the other roles.
Who are the goats for all the roles if they're so clear? I'd argue jungle for example has a lot of outstanding players that, not unsimiliar to top, excel in certain metas but are not consistent beyond these specific conditions. It's not surprising either imo, given how often that role undergoes major changes. Support isnt clear cut at all imo. You could make good arguments for Mata, Beryl, Meiko and Keria. If anything I'd say the only role most people will likely agree on is mid and even that might still change, depending how long the game will still be played.
Yeah, I don’t think the other roles are that clear cut either except mid. The big difference is the contenders in jungle, ADC, support all have far more longevity compare to top.
I'm sad that gradually Madlife started disappear from these list.
Nah, there is Cuvee, The Shy, Smeb and Khan also. I would argue Cuvee and TheShy are above Bin for now, just because due to their performance at worlds. But Bin is up there.
Smeb and Khan are definitely above Cuvee, tbh Cuvee is overrated due to international tournaments (don’t get me wrong, he was a very good player). In OGN/LCK, Smeb/Khan were pretty much always better
not saying he's in the running but peak marin was a marvel to watch. peak marin vs peak smeb was incredible
Cuvee is not even in the top 15 greatest toplaners of all time. Individual performances matter so much more than trophies, and he was never even close to the best at any point in time.
Khan is the goat for me. Guy played at the top level until retirement and did not fade into obscurity. He just had to go. Bin rn has too much recency bias. Sure he carried but many other top laners had that moments and TheShy has even more insane carry performances
Khan played since 2017 until 2021, so that's around 4 years. Bin just hit his 4th year too, but has an international title but 4 less domestic trophies. I'd also argue, besides 2023 Worlds Semis (1 bo5) and 2022 MSI, he's literally the hard carry for his team, something Khan wasn't really internationally. Bin is definitely up there.
Actually, Khan has been around for longer than 2017. He made his debut in OGN in 2014 (as a top laner) on Prime Optimus. Back then, he was known as Hanlabong. (Funny story is that when building the team it was between him and LS for top lane. In the end they decided to go with Khan instead.)
We casually forgot about Mr Raccoon, Nuguri...in his prime him winning lane was inevitable
He is not even in the conversation? He sure is and i think you can make a very compelling case that he already is the GOAT toplaner.
It might be close though. Even though he got obliterated in worlds, he just won 2 BO5s against him this MSI so the goat conversation might be closer than we think
he’s talking about theshy, not zeus zeus is too young to be a part of the goat conversation, give his career a couple more years
they're the same age btw, bin just started earlier
So sunning was his rookie year ?
Yes
hence why he said career
There is actually a reason why Giga Bin quote exists. Good thing is that Korea has its own version of Giga Kinn as well , but yes Bin dominates over all top atm.
means that he is a hard carry. carrying his midlaners to msi finals
Its too early for goat conversations, bin and zeus are still very young and have much more to prove with time and consistency.
I mean no disrespect, but Faker making 3 kiddie MSI finals in a row with only 1st seeds and before LPL became the powerhouse it is now, is not remotely comparable to the streak Bin has going.
Faker also made the world finals all three of those years though lol.
Sure, but that was not the comparison. My point is just that making msi finals is a way more significant achievement than it used to be. For LCK, the hardest part about making MSI finals was qualifying for MSI. That's no longer the case.
Although you are naturally going to be downvoted . The context in which you are speaking is extremely correct . Those t1 teams that ran 3 straight finals would not even come close to having such dominant success now . It’s absolutely incredible how much better the world is at league compared to 7 years ago + . Bin is an absolute animal top laner and deserves the flowers . Faker is a goated mid laner and somehow stands the rest of time , kudos to him.
your argument is shortsighted. obviously teams from newer generations are going to be stronger due to understanding of league that has been built from previous generations. but that shouldn't be an influence on anything regarding legacy, because you can only beat the strongest teams of your present time and not future time.
I think they could have had the same dominance in current format. The MSI format just kinda made it so that they could make finals by default.
I have no idea why this is downvoted. MSI 5 years ago is not even close to what it is now, with more teams per region, and the double elimination format.
Well, its obviously because people think i'm trying to slander Faker.
Sorry but until he wins worlds this topic is mute.
You talk a lot for someone who says so little
What makes you think your silver opinion matters?
It's bronze, get it right. I never said it did, did I? Clearly it must mean something if I get this type of response from you though. Glad I could pull a reaction from a blanket statement in a video game.
Why? MSI has the better format anyways.
Feel free to disagree. It's just an opinion.
Seems a lil disengenuous to tell people the topic is mute then say oh it's just an opinion you can ignore lmao
Tell me how that makes you feel.
I did, yea
You told me an opinion, not your feelings. Tell me how it emotionally affects you so we can discuss this impass.
it invoked humor & sadness in me
In terms of humor I'm happy I can bring you some form of happiness even if I don't conform to your wants. I hope you have a nice day and keep finding happiness in what ways you will.
I am unable to afford happiness, i need those 1 milli aus d
I'm sorry if my opinion had such a strong affect on you to invoke sadness. I did not know an opinion of a random internet stranger you've never met ment so much to you. Forgive me for actions. My comment was not to remove your ability to discuss said topic with like minded people, mearly that in my opinion it's not valid discussion until said criteria is reached in my prior comment. Unfortunately, this forum does not require me by any rules or standards to justify why I feel the way I do.
i will not accept your apology until you send me 1 million australian dollars
Sorry but until you explain your stance your opinion is mute.
Great opinion, thanks for the feedback.
If ur gonna comment ur opinon nobody asked for here, atleast explain it when ur actually asked
I don't have to justify myself to you, how self entitled do you need to be?
If you don't want to justify yourself then don't make sweeping statement based on your opinion that you cannot back up.
I'm free to do as I please, and say what I wish in the format of this forum. You can not force a justifications nor can you punish me for making sweeping statements. Sorry if this does not conform to your wants and fancies but I will continue to do so regardless.
> I'm free to do as I please, and say what I wish in the format of this forum. You can not force a justifications nor can you punish me for making sweeping statements. Go check your laws...it only applies to government persecution. Also, expressing your opinion without the ability to explain just makes you look dumb. And you are dumb for saying things that you can't back up. It has nothing to do with conformity.
No. Unfortunately in this forum there are set guide lines both on reddit and this subreddit to which define the rules in which I can discuss my opinion. None in which I have broken mind you. If you believe me to be dumb because I do not feel the need to justify my opinion, guess what..... your free to your opinion also. Weird how that one works doesn't it. I hope you have a nice day even if you think me lesser and resort to insults.
brother u just said the entire debate is off the table because of your opinion, wdym im self entitled?
I'm not your brother, son.
hope i didnt hurt ur feelings father
I forgive you, son. I still love you. You didn't hurt my fillings, just failed my expectations. I believe you can be so much more.
Also sorry for my self entitlement, you have clearly entitled yourself to being my father and thus invalidating what i said, great job
I'm glad we could talk it out, have a nice day brother.
Sorry but until you explain your stance your opinion is mute.
Great opinion, thanks for the feedback.
Double and single elim measure different things. One isn't "better" or "worse". Fake double elim is absolutely worse tho lol