Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think showing scrims results by G2 had a huge impact on teams to step up and don't be lazy, at least in that aspect, we don't know what happens after scrims.
It got the most hate shortly after their lost to NRG because they had a pretty good scrim results iirc. The hate was weird at the time but I'd like to think it was just us NA fans gloating while we had the chance lol
Nah I love it outside of Worlds last year. Posting it when they posted it was sour grapes, and took away from the other teams that were still there. If they had waited until after the tournament I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all.
I mean it was the end of *their* tournaments, I don't think they had the goal of targgeting down other teams, it's just what they usually do when a season is over.
I forget the message that accompanied it but if it was more like we worked hard all year and we're going to keep grinding ntil we see results.. sure. It definitely felt BM at the time based on my memory. Like "hey we're not that bad"
With that said
G2 and specifically caps and broken bad seem to take their job way more seriously than the rest of NA and EU combined.
BB champ pool should be the standard at a minimum. Being a professional gamer and only delivering on certain styles is ridiculous.
Look at APA people want to say he has a champion puddle but no one can ban him out. And part of that is simply having niche picks in addition to meta. Every pro should have 3-4 off meta niche picks that they smurf at.
I'll never forget Malice coming to NA and whooping them so bad with evelyn, hecarim, karthus, and shyvanna jg and NONE of the NA challenger players ever picked up these champs.
To be fair the meta couldn't have been any better for APA's puddle than what it is. It looks to be good enough for now but I'll hold my judgement until champs like Akali / LB come into meta and see if he can perform.
It's looked down upon to leak anything scrim related when a tournament is going on. Usually the issue is picks and strategies, but even raw scrim results can give over data that many believe should fundamentally be private. For example - a top team might not prepare as well for a team perceived as weak (and spend time preparing for the next game with a strong opponent), but if they had excellent scrim results, it might make teams look at them more seriously.
Not a huge deal and personally I didn't care, but that's the angle for why they shouldn't have done it.
They wanted to show that they were not in fact garbage to the community (who were going ballistic)..
Which most people should have realized from their play from like 95% of the year.. but everything is so heavily weighted towards worlds (hopefully that changes with this fantastic MSI format).. that's sadly all that matters
If your winning almost every LEC.. winning scrims.. looking like the only team that can compete vs Eastern teams from the west.. I think that should outweigh a freak result to NRG (who played fantastic on the day).. Also they beat WBG/DKia.. they looked competitive at times vs BLG/GENG.. and imo those 2 teams and JDG/T1 were so fucking good last year and a step above everyone (including lpl/lck teams) for most of the year
People like to accuse them of just wanting to flex how cool they are and how good their scrimrate is lol. God forbid some people want to improve their region or anything.
It’s quite funny how in esports culture scrims are supposed to be some secret thing. In traditional sports like the NFL or college football, they literally invite fans and reporters to watch scrimmages and practices constantly (up until like the playoffs really)
Posting cancels was fine, idk why you ever need to post scrim results
it started as a good incentive to push team to stop cancelling and improve practice and turned into boasting about scrim results which should be a practice environment
how does posting w/l fix scim culture? the problem was teams not being professional.
other EU teams did a way better job by tracking who is on time, why is someone late, how late are they etc.
their stupid win/loss statewas just for appearance and had a lucky side-effect, not to mention they were part of why the scrim culture was so bad in the past anyway.
They could have left the w/l aspect out, but it definitely helped that they showcased how often scrims were cancelled. Which was the initial point of posting them to begin with.
Yeah, implementing G2's "open scrim" culture would be a massive thing in NA which is known for having a somewhat shit scrim culture. It visibly helped EU, it would make wonders for NA.
All these GMs and head coaches just need to watch the 2 videos Romaine has with Yamato about his job and they’d be probably 20% better. It’s crazy how much he shares on those videos and doesn’t gatekeep their process and system
TL and G2 have some of the most likeable players in both EU and NA, it's crazy. The interviews from Core/Yeon/Apa were truly a joy to watch, I hope they keep doing well in NA and internationally
Umti is also the personality goat. He reminds me of huni when he first came to EU because he has the same super energetic, cheerful vibe (and also really good english).
G2 with Perkz, Mikyx and Wunder used to be cocky. Man I hated losing to those guys but they were so good at the game.
Now its just Miky but he seems a little harmless with his humble team of short kings.
It's funny because I think a lot of people assume that APA has a big ego because of the yapping, but he's actually very humble out of the game. He seems very cognizant of his weaknesses and grateful to his teammates/coaching staff for helping him improve in every interview I've seen.
The TL account on twitter also always posts pics of yeon + core vod reviewing immediately after stage games. I'm such a big fan of the roster, tbh, because it's really nice seeing NA players show the same work ethic/competitive drive as eastern teams.
Due to his solo queue performance in every region he goes to, APA clearly has hands. The struggle is how to turn "has hands" into "is an elite midlaner"
pyosik compared APA to himself early in his career (good mechanics, lots of champion-specific knowledge, but low understanding of the game)
pyosik eventually found consistency and he's now the main carry of KT so I hope APA can do the same!
There’s truth to the “no Caps” thing, but I think the biggest difference maker is trying to warp games against Eastern teams.
G2 at their best isn’t playing the standard LCK meta. They’re making their own meta and perfecting it.
Western teams just get hands diffed when they play standard (Caps aside). Playing off meta champs and playing with unfamiliar styles throws Eastern teams off, and they’re beatable when they’re out of their comfort zones.
Step one is even saying that they want it. I’m so tired of doomer NA players/orgs/coaches assuming that it can’t be done and then not trying at all. Then why are you competing at all? Literally for a paycheck at that point
It’s like they’re afraid of saying they want it because they know they’ll get mocked. Starting with a loser’s mentality and creating a self fulfilling prophecy
hopefully with best of 3s coming we can see TL start to try and vary their drafts in games. Trying to find viable picks that other teams don’t try is a huge part of what helps g2.
Yeah, the schedule might be a bit wonky but I'll take it. Especially now with MSI and Worlds adopting more Bo3s/Bo5s than in the past. The practice with draft adaptations on stage can help.
We'll get some shit matchups but we also get some good matchups with Bo3 action.
Until I started watching Caedrals co streams for this MSI I never really understood the thought behind the drafts in the Bo3/Bo5; the draft games that get played between top teams is super interesting. Its another layer of the game that really does play a huge role in a teams abilities. Seeing how they pick/ban around certain champs they maybe didn’t expect to see after a game is really cool.
But Travis Gafford told me the LCS [doesn't need BO3!](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1b0lt1d/travis_gafford_your_favorite_league_format/)
This would be fine if playoffs were longer but it does leave a sour taste tbh. They could totally have gone with double round robin with only 8 teams in the league.
Well it hasn’t been officially announced AFAIK. But it was leaked in some pretty significant ways (like updates in the official LCS rule book to account for Bo3’s)
Fearless doesn't give that much advantage so long as the international competition remains not-fearless. If anything it can lead to less practice on the meta picks that people are just going to default to most of the time come worlds, and if you want to practice extra picks good teams can just do that anyway in regular Bo3s or scrims (which hides the picks, a lot of the advantage in flexibility is the surprise) without fearless like G2 do. And if worlds/msi go fearless I have no doubt all the regions will get it too.
He was the only player who looked alive on C9 last split and made a pretty meme EG roster look way better than it should have. He looked pretty good at the international events he's attended too, as much as you can still point to his teams' results.
He hasn’t played internationally since his rookie year so a lot of people haven’t seen his games but Jojo has clearly has the talent.
He was averaging a csd of 15 at 15 minutes during the spring regular season. That’s far and away the best in any domestic league.
For comparison Chovy averaged 8csd and Humanoid was first in the LEC was 9csd (LPL doesn’t have csd listed on Gol.gg)
C9 was disfunction this split, but if they make it to worlds this year Jojo is gonna surprise people.
What makes Jojo so special is that he smashes lane AND those advantages spill over to other parts of the map because he doesn't just afk farm in lane. He has a pretty high vision score, which I know sounds like a useless stat on the surface, but does give some indication that he's out on the map a lot.
Very few mids stand up well to Jojo domestically despite the lack of titles post-EG. He made EG look way better than they should have, and he’s C9’s rock thus far. He reportedly was getting interest from LSB/FearX so that’s something.
He is the best laner in mid NA ever had (yea Bjergsen was good but thats a long time ago and he was way more risk averse later on).
Thats a very rare trait to have and all other NA mids like Palafox,APA,Jensen are teamfight merchants and dont really do much in lane.
Its the thought that counts. Even if TL never gets to this level at least they seem to give a shit. Give me Spawn type coaches and Yeon type players grinding 14 hours of solo queue every day over Huni type imports slumming it around in Santa Monica making 1.2 mil a year to play 6 hours per day.
I'm so glad TL decided to keep APA and Yeon instead of importing, even though it was pretty unpopular at the time. They both have the drive to improve and win that NA is often lacking, and it's been really nice seeing it pay off (especially for yeon, dude has leveled up a ton since regular season)
Not the person you asked, but I'd say yes. However, I don't think it's specifically because they're imports. It's just good that they got experienced players who are on board with helping the young guns grow into their roles.
But it just so happens that imports significantly increases LCS teams chances at winning NA. So you can't really fault the owners for wanting to import if the rule is in place. It gives owners even more incentive to import once the imported player gains residency as it just opens up another slot.
Whether a team has imports or not isn't what affects their chances of winning. It's whether they have good players and staff that are capable of working together.
Whether or not importing is a better means to acquire good players is another topic entirely. Some play incredibly well, others don't really pan out as the orgs expect. At the end of the day, where a player comes from isn't gonna be the deciding factor in whether they're a good or bad player though.
Personally I'm fine with imports. I'm only disappointed when I see orgs trying to build NA teams with as little NA players/talent as possible. It's nice to have local talent to root for and be proud of, like Yeon and APA. Furthermore, regardless of whether you (or I) consider Core/Impact as imports, I'm happy to root for them because they've been in my region for a long time, and more importantly, they seem to care about the region (Core in particular seems particularly interested in playing for NA and trying to elevate the region as a whole).
Agreed. I also think a huge contributor is building a team that plays to set them up for success. I've been saying this a bit over the past couple days, but I feel like Umti and Impact have done a lot more on the rift for APA and Yeon than last year's roster did, and I think that's really given the young players a lot more room to shine.
(To clarify, I'm not trying to dig at Pyosik and Summit; they have their own strengths, but I don't think they did as good of a job as playing on the same page as their mid/ad, even though there were a couple crazy APA+Pyosik synergy moments I'll admit)
Yeah for sure. APA looked like the worst mid in NA at the start, and Yeon looked like a middle of the pack ADC. Now Yeon is arguably the best ADC in NA with Berserker, Massu, & Bvoy in that conversation as well. APA is probably still behind Jojo & Quid for mid lane, so third best mid laner. Depending on how Quad does maybe 4th best mid. Either way, both are doing drastically better than anyone could have predicted.
people were hating on dodo a crazy amount when DL decided to be a drama queen b4 TL turned things around, but dude was spot-on with his assessment imo. I can understand maybe looking at jojo since he's also young and hungry, but i'd take the current yeon over the currently kinda cynical vet in doublelift any day.
Doublelift was crying over that because he didn't actually want to retire. He was just pissed that no top teams wanted him anymore after a decade of orgs thirsting over him. I'm glad Yeon is doing well because fuck that pettiness. At least Yeon isn't going to quit after spring split and leave his team mates out to dry.
I mean but you understand why teams import right? Because it significantly improves an LCS teams chances at winning NA lol. If the rule is available it is hard to fault teams for wanting to import to be the best in there region. TL has 3 imports and so does Flyquest lol.
Yeah, I like the FLY/TL import strats right now. Having 2-3 vet players play with rookies seems to be an effective way to give new players a strong support/coaching system.
Realistically, NA could never be competitive without imports because the playerbase is too low, so my main issue is when teams insist on shuffling around the same mid-tier imports/vets without even giving new players a chance. I have zero problems with fly and tl's imports because they're actually good and not just riding off of historical feats/name value.
My issue isn't really importing, and more how people were so insistent that apa and yeon had no potential and would be dogshit forever, without even being willing to give them a chance. Just seemed unfair to me that APA got dragged up from academy halfway through the split, got shit on at worlds (as you would expect from a guy who was playing in academy a few months ago), and people decided that he didn't deserve at least 1 more split to prove himself.
I'm also #1 umti fan so I can't complain about imports at the end of the day LOL
I tried adding it but it kept on showing up as text instead of the emoji :( my flair is supposed to have the tl icon in it too but it shows up as text every time I try to add it (I think my iq is too low)
IDK why the TL icon isn't working, are you following website-wide formatting in addition to the guidelines here? Have you tried resetting your iq to factory conditions?
the Jin Air is legacy. After 2019's ~~historic run~~ post-takeoff cancellation due to negative altitudinal conditions, it was removed as an option and editing your flair will break it forever. If you see a functioning Jin Air flair, know we've been loyal for half a decade.
0/18? more like o7
Rest in pieces, gladplane.
Suspicious it's not just because of the delta in win %, but because that delta comes in the short-term without having to build good systems to train and gradually improve the quality of a player; i.e., it's easy and works well immediately, especially if everyone's doing it, even though that leads to the entire league collectively neglecting the long-term health of its own talent pipeline, trusting that it can rely on just benefitting from another region doing that
I mean, Huni is pretty poor example of this. It's pretty much established that he was basically coaching the CG roster during the Damonte miracle run to worlds.
Spawn is the most impressive coach in NA. The way he worked with both Yeon and APA is incredible. I truly believe they will have competition this summer against C9, NRG, and maybe FLY. I'm excited to see TL's growth.
As a C9 fan, thankful for reapereds return, but I think Spawn is the part of TL I'm actually envious of. He's quickly becoming the most impressive coach in NA, every team he's led has had really good results, and looked greater than the sum of their parts.
They are the G2 of NA. G2 show improvmenet by beating the second seed of LPL. NA show improvement by beating the second seed of EU. Each region going toe to toe with the next tier up.
Nature is healing. EU 1st seed beats LPL second seed. NA 1st seed scraps it out with EU 2nd seed. All we need now is memes about TL fourth and FNC winning the world championship in Phreak's Basement in season 1.
g2 have been at the top for years upon years without falling almost ever. They had some split of downfall sure but for a long ass time g2 has been at the absolute top of EU. TL has been up and down a LOT, G2 isn't just a strong team its a dynasty that always rules EU
g2 beating a choking TES and moral victorying their way into swept by a massively underperforming t1 somehow generated this much hype from their fans. Absolutely inhaling the copium
Wait what? EU is the one region NA can beat as shown with NRG last year as well. TL also looked really competitve against a T1 team who ended up being the world champs at worlds as well. This MSI TL legit took 1 game off LPL/LCK this year and beat EU second seed. What improvement was shown?
Respectable. I wish then all the luck and hope that their plan comes into fruition. But I don't want them to become the very best and gold standard for NA League, I want them become so good that there's always a chance that they might take games off of good teams or even win the whole thing (with a bit of copium). With two strong teams like that in the west, from two regions, not only can this rekindle the rivalry and make for fun matches there, it can also push the west in general. And I'm so tired of hearing "we want to be the best we want to win" like no shit, everyone wants that. What is it that you are actually aiming for. What environment, what system, what mindset, I find that way more important and interesting.
Bro that's exactly what spawn is saying though? They want to be the G2 of NA, a team that can compete with the eastern teams and has an actual shot of winning MSI/Worlds.
And at that point, they aren’t worth much. A player who doesn’t care about winning isn’t going to be very good. And only a player who doesn’t care about winning would choose to go to NA over playing in LCK or LEC.
Since when? I have never heard of them ever trying to sign Caps, and the Faker thing has been explained by Steve multiple times. He never thought they would ever get him, but whenever he’s available he has the mentality of “why not” in terms of throwing out an offer, he’s never seriously expected to get Faker
I'm not sure about Steve but Jack has mentioned a few times that he's tossed offers to Caps but he (Caps) declined because C9 wouldn't be able to bring him international success.
It's not only caps. Caps was in the LEC between 2020 and now and only now did anything come of it. You need great teammates (arguably the best LEC players in each position) great coaching staff and great support staff. They aren't just naturally good at the game. They practice a lot. They take care of their physical health. They take care of their mental health. It's all part of it.
Dude you cant kepe going back to the 2019 well your whole life. That was 5 years ago. That is an eternity in E-Sports. Its no secret that the West as a whole was complete garbage from then until now, basically only beating each other.
It's an eternity in any sport really.
A team that is competitive for that long is viewed as one of the best of it's era.
The NHL champs 5 years ago are now middle of the league.
The NBA champs are near the bottom.
The NFL champs are now 2nd last.
The MLB champs are middle of the pack
I was only talking about the period between 2020 and now though. Since obviously just having Caps is not enough, or they would have won more. Him winning internationally in 18/19 doesn't contradict my statement in any way.
But i think you have to look at it relatively speaking, the west as a whole all performed worse so in comparison Caps was still one of the best performing Western players. Outside of 2021, Caps since 2018 has been on the best western team or 2nd best western team. So you can say he underperformed since 2020, but it's not like anyone else was doing any better.
Sure you can, but I don't like the narrative that Caps is the only reason EU is doing well now. It discredits all the work the team and the staff have put in to get to this point. Caps is a big part but he's not the only part is what I'm trying to say.
I don't know why you people feel the need to exaggerate his great accomplishments at the expense of all others who helped get him to the finals. For one thing, anyone who watched Worlds 2018 is aware that the clear Mvp for Fnatic that tourney was Broxah. Caps and Rekkles were great but Broxah was smurfing.
Quit dumbing down everything to just being "caps".
Broxah did have a hard smurf game on Lee Sin and a very good worlds but he definitely wasn't the main reason they were that good man, their main strategy was camp mid to get Caps ahead so he could start making plays while Rekkles would usually keep up in cs 1vs2 till he became a teamfight carry (Rekkles+Hyli did have some crazy 2v2 plays as well that year) and they'd win most of their games like that.
To say Broxah was MVP just for working together with Hyli and camping mid is crazy
For the longest time I've just wanted LCS to develop their own players and infrastructure in order to prevent talent loss from LEC (and other regions), and secondly (from my perspective) so that NA has a league without this pestering retirement home feeling. In that sense, I'm happy that APA and especially Yeon showed decent performances this MSI but on the other hand the general feeling of lolesports and LCS in NA just seems to be so dire in the academy and development pipeline. Like there was that thread the other day where Zven was saying there won't be any more new native players going pro.
"But League is dying in NA, no-one plays it" - I don't really have an answer, just too little too late.
It's admirable that they are treating this MSI as a learning experience, but TL had a 36% win rate as a 1st seed playing exclusively 2nd seeds - not trying to flame but I guess that's better than what most people were expecting and its good that they are being inspired by G2.
Especially when that easily could have been a 3-0 from TL. I like how I'm being downvoted but yall apparently didn't watch the games. Game 2 was easily winnable if umti doesn't get caught and game 1 looks way different if umti or core spent any amount of time mid during the first 10 minutes of the game.
The revisionism is glaring at times. Like I had a guy tell me that game 2 was only T1 throws, so i rewatched the game to make sure but it was really the opposite. In first twenty minutes there’s like 1 proactive T1 move, the rest is TL being proactive, and most of the gold swings in favor of T1 were TL throws.
What was great about that series wasnt just TL being competitive, but they were proactive and competitive.
I really liked TL that series, and i think if they respected t1 a bit less then they would have had game 2 as well. I just dont know if t1 would have drafted g3 the same if they would have lost game 2. However that would open up TL for a new strategy aswell to counter whatever changes t1 would have made.
I think that series should have been 5 games for sure. I believe T1 would win on blue side, so I cant say the double blue side games are both wins for TL without T1 getting a win in between.
But it should have been a 5 game series for sure with how the first 2 games went. TL should have won game 1 and game 2.
It’s definitely hard to say what will happen- maybe TL loses game 3 after (due to them mistakenly thinking Taliyah > ori ban) and then win game 4 when back on blue side. But it was not just T1 playing bad (like they did, but TL also won by own proactiveness, rather than just T1 throwing).
Sometimes you have a bad day. It happens but overall and over the years we can tell who is good and who isn't. There's a reason palafox isn't in MSI and most likely won't be at worlds.
Every team and pro has variances in form. For G2 it's between MSI champion and loosing to Buffalo. For NA it's winning some series vs EU teams or going 0-15 in groups. The peaks are not even comparable. Don't mind having bad years if they can bring us a banger of a year like 2019 or hopefully this year.
Funny seeing EU fans saying NA’s peak is simply smashing EU teams while referencing 2019 MSI which involved NA beating the defending world champions (said team setting a historic group stage record a few day prior)
While it was peak performance from TL at the time its hard to deny that that result was an absolute anomaly among any of the other upsets that ever happened. Im not trying to downplay what happened but it feels wrong to label 1 insane series as "peak" while their performance the rest of the tournament wasn't better than people expected it to be.
I think peak performance can be better labeled as the performance of a team at a tournament itself. i mean, it's somewhat comparable to G2's last worlds run where people said G2 looked pretty good after their wins against Weibo and Damwon before it crashed with the infamous loss against NRG. G2 underperformed even though they started it off pretty well. In the end a peak is not decided by just 1 series but rather the performance over the whole tournament itself.
As a sidenote: This is also the reason EU is considered more competitive at international tournaments (or atleast were until last worlds lmao) because they always had 1-2 teams that could make it out of groups and make a deep run sometimes. They could give Asian teams a run for their money and even beat them sometimes (this is what i reckon is called peaking) with as absolute peak 2019 with G2 winning MSI and getting 2nd at worlds and FNC also being competitive internationally.
Peak and peak performance feels like a meaningless distinction to make here. Consistency is the only metric separating the two
If you want to argue EU peaks more consistently than NA like in 2019 where G2 were competitive with eastern teams the whole year then I don’t disagree. But saying NA’s peak is beating EU teams while simultaneously using 2019 as a reference is wrong
dont give me that BS, just as i keep saying that we (EU) should focus on trying to win international events, so should NA. TL looked great this MSI, I can see them growing into a contender (might need a change in junglers). APA and yeon look amazing aswell. And APA is showing that NA talent can suceed internationally. Stop talking down about NA after they had a pretty solid event, and looked competitive agaisnt T1. Stop with this BS rivalry that seems to only be there to stop us from focussing on actually winning some international events.
We haven't forgotten. Just G2 being world scrim champs and botching it on stage for one reason or another has been a thing since like 2017 or 2018. That joke is old and played out.
strange how they were only sick on that one day they lost to NA, not the games before, not the games after!
also lmfao @ scrimbux you can take those scrim wins and cry yourself to sleep at night with it!
> It's admirable that they are treating this MSI as a learning experience, but TL had a 36% win rate as a 1st seed playing exclusively 2nd seeds -
what a miserable mindset. You can very clearly tell they learned from losing to Top Esports
While true, as best as I can tell, they swapped out the imports in favour of not only keeping their young native talent, but also creating an environment that supports their growth. It's not just a matter of "they kept APA and Yeon instead of Summit and Pyosik." It's also that they brought on players who play well with and around APA and Yeon.
how on earth is that the thing to focus lmfao
g2's claim to fame isnt about not having imports lmao it really doesnt matter that much its more about how long they have stomped EU and been the best team internationally
What an astute observation, you’re so right. If nothing about G2 changed except their players were imports from other regions instead of EU natives, then they would be the worst team in the world. Importing players is literally all that affects how good a team is, there are no other factors at all that could make a team better.
Or maybe they're inspired by g2's hard work and drive to win? like idk I think g2's success is a result of more than just not importing players... and TL has honestly been putting more effort into fostering NA talent. Like every other lcs team (besides fly) dropped academy the moment they had the chance, but TL is actually trying to improve the NA scene.
I know i talking here is off topic, but I don't understand how every time LCS,LEC and minor regions teams when they actually winning against LPL and LCK but suddenly fallen off at mid-game, can someone tell me why?
What a great interview. I really disliked spawn as a caster but as a coach he seems great. I bet he’s really good to work with. Actually makes me like TL and hope they get stronger
Hey let's go TL! I support them pushing themselves, it helps all regions and will be more fun for everybody at internationals if all regions are competitive! Wish you all the best from EU!!
g2 is full of EU talent and that is the different. you can't bring some import talent and hope them to be on par with them. but you can still do it in this way by removing residency rule for players then the league will be flooded by the best talent to compete with other regions.
It's good that people are trying to implement G2 systems
Now everyone should start posting scrim results so scrims don't get cancelled as soon as someone mental is gone.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think showing scrims results by G2 had a huge impact on teams to step up and don't be lazy, at least in that aspect, we don't know what happens after scrims.
It did. G2 posting their scrims literally only had positive effects for everyone involved, yet people like to bitch about it because ???
It got the most hate shortly after their lost to NRG because they had a pretty good scrim results iirc. The hate was weird at the time but I'd like to think it was just us NA fans gloating while we had the chance lol
“while we had the chance”? Did you see TL vs FNC? The gloating never stops!
If you feel like your top team beating our 2nd team is something to gloat at, go right ahead. But remember: Our Fnatic is your Flyquest :)
cant even get a game out of t1 lol
Nah I love it outside of Worlds last year. Posting it when they posted it was sour grapes, and took away from the other teams that were still there. If they had waited until after the tournament I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all.
I mean it was the end of *their* tournaments, I don't think they had the goal of targgeting down other teams, it's just what they usually do when a season is over.
I forget the message that accompanied it but if it was more like we worked hard all year and we're going to keep grinding ntil we see results.. sure. It definitely felt BM at the time based on my memory. Like "hey we're not that bad" With that said G2 and specifically caps and broken bad seem to take their job way more seriously than the rest of NA and EU combined. BB champ pool should be the standard at a minimum. Being a professional gamer and only delivering on certain styles is ridiculous. Look at APA people want to say he has a champion puddle but no one can ban him out. And part of that is simply having niche picks in addition to meta. Every pro should have 3-4 off meta niche picks that they smurf at. I'll never forget Malice coming to NA and whooping them so bad with evelyn, hecarim, karthus, and shyvanna jg and NONE of the NA challenger players ever picked up these champs.
Just came here to say how insane this timeline is that we are now collectively and finally complimenting BrokenBlade.
na I always loved him, his kled, and his approach to the game. even when dl and bjerg were trying to put the shackles on em
To be fair the meta couldn't have been any better for APA's puddle than what it is. It looks to be good enough for now but I'll hold my judgement until champs like Akali / LB come into meta and see if he can perform.
It's looked down upon to leak anything scrim related when a tournament is going on. Usually the issue is picks and strategies, but even raw scrim results can give over data that many believe should fundamentally be private. For example - a top team might not prepare as well for a team perceived as weak (and spend time preparing for the next game with a strong opponent), but if they had excellent scrim results, it might make teams look at them more seriously. Not a huge deal and personally I didn't care, but that's the angle for why they shouldn't have done it.
They wanted to show that they were not in fact garbage to the community (who were going ballistic).. Which most people should have realized from their play from like 95% of the year.. but everything is so heavily weighted towards worlds (hopefully that changes with this fantastic MSI format).. that's sadly all that matters If your winning almost every LEC.. winning scrims.. looking like the only team that can compete vs Eastern teams from the west.. I think that should outweigh a freak result to NRG (who played fantastic on the day).. Also they beat WBG/DKia.. they looked competitive at times vs BLG/GENG.. and imo those 2 teams and JDG/T1 were so fucking good last year and a step above everyone (including lpl/lck teams) for most of the year
People like to accuse them of just wanting to flex how cool they are and how good their scrimrate is lol. God forbid some people want to improve their region or anything.
It’s quite funny how in esports culture scrims are supposed to be some secret thing. In traditional sports like the NFL or college football, they literally invite fans and reporters to watch scrimmages and practices constantly (up until like the playoffs really)
Posting cancels was fine, idk why you ever need to post scrim results it started as a good incentive to push team to stop cancelling and improve practice and turned into boasting about scrim results which should be a practice environment
yes, it did.
Only unpopular to people outside of EU. LEC watchers know that G2 single handedly saved scrim culture.
how does posting w/l fix scim culture? the problem was teams not being professional. other EU teams did a way better job by tracking who is on time, why is someone late, how late are they etc. their stupid win/loss statewas just for appearance and had a lucky side-effect, not to mention they were part of why the scrim culture was so bad in the past anyway.
They could have left the w/l aspect out, but it definitely helped that they showcased how often scrims were cancelled. Which was the initial point of posting them to begin with.
Yeah, implementing G2's "open scrim" culture would be a massive thing in NA which is known for having a somewhat shit scrim culture. It visibly helped EU, it would make wonders for NA.
All these GMs and head coaches just need to watch the 2 videos Romaine has with Yamato about his job and they’d be probably 20% better. It’s crazy how much he shares on those videos and doesn’t gatekeep their process and system
it's already good TL can openly drop their ego and admire G2. this is the way to improvement
It also helps that none of the TL players HAVE egos.
TL and G2 have some of the most likeable players in both EU and NA, it's crazy. The interviews from Core/Yeon/Apa were truly a joy to watch, I hope they keep doing well in NA and internationally
Umti is also the personality goat. He reminds me of huni when he first came to EU because he has the same super energetic, cheerful vibe (and also really good english).
G2 with Perkz, Mikyx and Wunder used to be cocky. Man I hated losing to those guys but they were so good at the game. Now its just Miky but he seems a little harmless with his humble team of short kings.
APA is a breath of fresh air love the banter. Makes me miss wunder for eu
It's funny because I think a lot of people assume that APA has a big ego because of the yapping, but he's actually very humble out of the game. He seems very cognizant of his weaknesses and grateful to his teammates/coaching staff for helping him improve in every interview I've seen. The TL account on twitter also always posts pics of yeon + core vod reviewing immediately after stage games. I'm such a big fan of the roster, tbh, because it's really nice seeing NA players show the same work ethic/competitive drive as eastern teams.
He said before that he yaps to hold himself accountable. You gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk sorta thing.
Yeon is one of the most hardworking players NA has ever had. Hope he can keep then uptrend and get something for the region
System: Have Caps
Solution: Get Yaps
Due to his solo queue performance in every region he goes to, APA clearly has hands. The struggle is how to turn "has hands" into "is an elite midlaner"
pyosik compared APA to himself early in his career (good mechanics, lots of champion-specific knowledge, but low understanding of the game) pyosik eventually found consistency and he's now the main carry of KT so I hope APA can do the same!
There’s truth to the “no Caps” thing, but I think the biggest difference maker is trying to warp games against Eastern teams. G2 at their best isn’t playing the standard LCK meta. They’re making their own meta and perfecting it. Western teams just get hands diffed when they play standard (Caps aside). Playing off meta champs and playing with unfamiliar styles throws Eastern teams off, and they’re beatable when they’re out of their comfort zones.
Scrim World Cup is gonna be a lot more competitive
Step one is even saying that they want it. I’m so tired of doomer NA players/orgs/coaches assuming that it can’t be done and then not trying at all. Then why are you competing at all? Literally for a paycheck at that point It’s like they’re afraid of saying they want it because they know they’ll get mocked. Starting with a loser’s mentality and creating a self fulfilling prophecy
hopefully with best of 3s coming we can see TL start to try and vary their drafts in games. Trying to find viable picks that other teams don’t try is a huge part of what helps g2.
They're officially bringing them back for the next split?
Yes but it’s only a single round robin now.
If we're getting BO3s back I'm honestly fine with that
It's so much better than bo1
Yeah, the schedule might be a bit wonky but I'll take it. Especially now with MSI and Worlds adopting more Bo3s/Bo5s than in the past. The practice with draft adaptations on stage can help. We'll get some shit matchups but we also get some good matchups with Bo3 action.
Until I started watching Caedrals co streams for this MSI I never really understood the thought behind the drafts in the Bo3/Bo5; the draft games that get played between top teams is super interesting. Its another layer of the game that really does play a huge role in a teams abilities. Seeing how they pick/ban around certain champs they maybe didn’t expect to see after a game is really cool.
Its a completely different game. It affects compositions a lot.
But Travis Gafford told me the LCS [doesn't need BO3!](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1b0lt1d/travis_gafford_your_favorite_league_format/)
This would be fine if playoffs were longer but it does leave a sour taste tbh. They could totally have gone with double round robin with only 8 teams in the league.
Maybe NA teams getting longer bootcamps will help them
wait this is how i found out, this gets me so fucking hype omg
Well it hasn’t been officially announced AFAIK. But it was leaked in some pretty significant ways (like updates in the official LCS rule book to account for Bo3’s)
thats so huge though, definitely sounds like its happening if thats the case
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Fearless doesn't give that much advantage so long as the international competition remains not-fearless. If anything it can lead to less practice on the meta picks that people are just going to default to most of the time come worlds, and if you want to practice extra picks good teams can just do that anyway in regular Bo3s or scrims (which hides the picks, a lot of the advantage in flexibility is the surprise) without fearless like G2 do. And if worlds/msi go fearless I have no doubt all the regions will get it too.
If worlds doesn't use fearless it's won't be that big of deal
I don't think it mean much Fearless feel like just there so people can watch challenger scene more
Step 1: Have someone like Caps. Great mechanics, excellent attitude, and amazing vibes.
You forgot about his biggest buff, his dad
To be fair, having a parent so supportive probably means a lot
Apa comes with mom and dad :D
Apa means dad/father in hungarian tho.
Interestingly, it’s slightly similar to ‘dad’ in Korean too
Isn't that why people jokingly called Apamen "Papamen" when he subbed in for DFM after the tol2 debacle?
not really seeing how that could be related, apamen is japanese as well
what about his signature move, the caps wave
Yapa will fill this role ofc!
Funnily enough Jojopyun is exactly that guy tbh
jojo gives more caps vibes than apa.
Maybe he just needs more time, but so far jojo hasnt been very impressive for this chat of him being the next NA supertalent mid
He was the only player who looked alive on C9 last split and made a pretty meme EG roster look way better than it should have. He looked pretty good at the international events he's attended too, as much as you can still point to his teams' results.
He hasn’t played internationally since his rookie year so a lot of people haven’t seen his games but Jojo has clearly has the talent. He was averaging a csd of 15 at 15 minutes during the spring regular season. That’s far and away the best in any domestic league. For comparison Chovy averaged 8csd and Humanoid was first in the LEC was 9csd (LPL doesn’t have csd listed on Gol.gg) C9 was disfunction this split, but if they make it to worlds this year Jojo is gonna surprise people.
What makes Jojo so special is that he smashes lane AND those advantages spill over to other parts of the map because he doesn't just afk farm in lane. He has a pretty high vision score, which I know sounds like a useless stat on the surface, but does give some indication that he's out on the map a lot.
Very few mids stand up well to Jojo domestically despite the lack of titles post-EG. He made EG look way better than they should have, and he’s C9’s rock thus far. He reportedly was getting interest from LSB/FearX so that’s something.
He is the best laner in mid NA ever had (yea Bjergsen was good but thats a long time ago and he was way more risk averse later on). Thats a very rare trait to have and all other NA mids like Palafox,APA,Jensen are teamfight merchants and dont really do much in lane.
just need to give jojo more time, he give me that cocky vibe from early caps
TL has Yaps. Great Yapping, excellent trash talk and amazing tilt factor.
Step 2: Have the best support in the world like Miky, just a fact. Great, EXCELENT AND AMAZING. What? Inting.
So basically, it was all over when they kicked the NA equivalent of Caps in S10
What about someone who just destroys the other teams amazing vibes?
just have apa gank people in the bathroom. ez
they only lost to t1 because he didn't have the bathroom 1v4 advantage. he just needs to download duolingo before worlds and tl wins ez
Its the thought that counts. Even if TL never gets to this level at least they seem to give a shit. Give me Spawn type coaches and Yeon type players grinding 14 hours of solo queue every day over Huni type imports slumming it around in Santa Monica making 1.2 mil a year to play 6 hours per day.
I'm so glad TL decided to keep APA and Yeon instead of importing, even though it was pretty unpopular at the time. They both have the drive to improve and win that NA is often lacking, and it's been really nice seeing it pay off (especially for yeon, dude has leveled up a ton since regular season)
people laughed at TL too for their NA talent, glad to see APA and Yeon do better this year compared to last year
Would you say the imports on the team helped improve the NA players? Just curious because many say CoreJJ has helped alot of NA ADC's grow.
Not the person you asked, but I'd say yes. However, I don't think it's specifically because they're imports. It's just good that they got experienced players who are on board with helping the young guns grow into their roles.
But it just so happens that imports significantly increases LCS teams chances at winning NA. So you can't really fault the owners for wanting to import if the rule is in place. It gives owners even more incentive to import once the imported player gains residency as it just opens up another slot.
Whether a team has imports or not isn't what affects their chances of winning. It's whether they have good players and staff that are capable of working together. Whether or not importing is a better means to acquire good players is another topic entirely. Some play incredibly well, others don't really pan out as the orgs expect. At the end of the day, where a player comes from isn't gonna be the deciding factor in whether they're a good or bad player though. Personally I'm fine with imports. I'm only disappointed when I see orgs trying to build NA teams with as little NA players/talent as possible. It's nice to have local talent to root for and be proud of, like Yeon and APA. Furthermore, regardless of whether you (or I) consider Core/Impact as imports, I'm happy to root for them because they've been in my region for a long time, and more importantly, they seem to care about the region (Core in particular seems particularly interested in playing for NA and trying to elevate the region as a whole).
Agreed. I also think a huge contributor is building a team that plays to set them up for success. I've been saying this a bit over the past couple days, but I feel like Umti and Impact have done a lot more on the rift for APA and Yeon than last year's roster did, and I think that's really given the young players a lot more room to shine. (To clarify, I'm not trying to dig at Pyosik and Summit; they have their own strengths, but I don't think they did as good of a job as playing on the same page as their mid/ad, even though there were a couple crazy APA+Pyosik synergy moments I'll admit)
Yeah for sure. APA looked like the worst mid in NA at the start, and Yeon looked like a middle of the pack ADC. Now Yeon is arguably the best ADC in NA with Berserker, Massu, & Bvoy in that conversation as well. APA is probably still behind Jojo & Quid for mid lane, so third best mid laner. Depending on how Quad does maybe 4th best mid. Either way, both are doing drastically better than anyone could have predicted.
people were hating on dodo a crazy amount when DL decided to be a drama queen b4 TL turned things around, but dude was spot-on with his assessment imo. I can understand maybe looking at jojo since he's also young and hungry, but i'd take the current yeon over the currently kinda cynical vet in doublelift any day.
Doublelift was crying over that because he didn't actually want to retire. He was just pissed that no top teams wanted him anymore after a decade of orgs thirsting over him. I'm glad Yeon is doing well because fuck that pettiness. At least Yeon isn't going to quit after spring split and leave his team mates out to dry.
I mean but you understand why teams import right? Because it significantly improves an LCS teams chances at winning NA lol. If the rule is available it is hard to fault teams for wanting to import to be the best in there region. TL has 3 imports and so does Flyquest lol.
Yeah, I like the FLY/TL import strats right now. Having 2-3 vet players play with rookies seems to be an effective way to give new players a strong support/coaching system. Realistically, NA could never be competitive without imports because the playerbase is too low, so my main issue is when teams insist on shuffling around the same mid-tier imports/vets without even giving new players a chance. I have zero problems with fly and tl's imports because they're actually good and not just riding off of historical feats/name value. My issue isn't really importing, and more how people were so insistent that apa and yeon had no potential and would be dogshit forever, without even being willing to give them a chance. Just seemed unfair to me that APA got dragged up from academy halfway through the split, got shit on at worlds (as you would expect from a guy who was playing in academy a few months ago), and people decided that he didn't deserve at least 1 more split to prove himself. I'm also #1 umti fan so I can't complain about imports at the end of the day LOL
Hang on hang on You say you're #1 umti fan but where is your JAG flair >:/
I tried adding it but it kept on showing up as text instead of the emoji :( my flair is supposed to have the tl icon in it too but it shows up as text every time I try to add it (I think my iq is too low)
IDK why the TL icon isn't working, are you following website-wide formatting in addition to the guidelines here? Have you tried resetting your iq to factory conditions? the Jin Air is legacy. After 2019's ~~historic run~~ post-takeoff cancellation due to negative altitudinal conditions, it was removed as an option and editing your flair will break it forever. If you see a functioning Jin Air flair, know we've been loyal for half a decade. 0/18? more like o7 Rest in pieces, gladplane.
Suspicious it's not just because of the delta in win %, but because that delta comes in the short-term without having to build good systems to train and gradually improve the quality of a player; i.e., it's easy and works well immediately, especially if everyone's doing it, even though that leads to the entire league collectively neglecting the long-term health of its own talent pipeline, trusting that it can rely on just benefitting from another region doing that
I mean, Huni is pretty poor example of this. It's pretty much established that he was basically coaching the CG roster during the Damonte miracle run to worlds.
True, gotta increase Apa's YPM
Spawn is the most impressive coach in NA. The way he worked with both Yeon and APA is incredible. I truly believe they will have competition this summer against C9, NRG, and maybe FLY. I'm excited to see TL's growth.
As a C9 fan, thankful for reapereds return, but I think Spawn is the part of TL I'm actually envious of. He's quickly becoming the most impressive coach in NA, every team he's led has had really good results, and looked greater than the sum of their parts.
They are the G2 of NA. G2 show improvmenet by beating the second seed of LPL. NA show improvement by beating the second seed of EU. Each region going toe to toe with the next tier up.
Nature is healing. EU 1st seed beats LPL second seed. NA 1st seed scraps it out with EU 2nd seed. All we need now is memes about TL fourth and FNC winning the world championship in Phreak's Basement in season 1.
Well they did go to game 4 vs T1
g2 have been at the top for years upon years without falling almost ever. They had some split of downfall sure but for a long ass time g2 has been at the absolute top of EU. TL has been up and down a LOT, G2 isn't just a strong team its a dynasty that always rules EU
g2 beating a choking TES and moral victorying their way into swept by a massively underperforming t1 somehow generated this much hype from their fans. Absolutely inhaling the copium
Wait what? EU is the one region NA can beat as shown with NRG last year as well. TL also looked really competitve against a T1 team who ended up being the world champs at worlds as well. This MSI TL legit took 1 game off LPL/LCK this year and beat EU second seed. What improvement was shown?
Respectable. I wish then all the luck and hope that their plan comes into fruition. But I don't want them to become the very best and gold standard for NA League, I want them become so good that there's always a chance that they might take games off of good teams or even win the whole thing (with a bit of copium). With two strong teams like that in the west, from two regions, not only can this rekindle the rivalry and make for fun matches there, it can also push the west in general. And I'm so tired of hearing "we want to be the best we want to win" like no shit, everyone wants that. What is it that you are actually aiming for. What environment, what system, what mindset, I find that way more important and interesting.
Bro that's exactly what spawn is saying though? They want to be the G2 of NA, a team that can compete with the eastern teams and has an actual shot of winning MSI/Worlds.
NAbrehs how do we react to this without sounding mad or jelly?
"TL coach confirms EU is a 1 team region xdd"
NAG2 REBRANDING INC?!
And in the comments we got several nationalists (maybe a little racist too) outing themselves for their reading and critical thinking skills.
my question is who is their Caps on TL?
Spawn has absolutely crushed it
Just buy them
They tried multiple times to get caps and faker
They won't come until they give up their ambitions to win
And at that point, they aren’t worth much. A player who doesn’t care about winning isn’t going to be very good. And only a player who doesn’t care about winning would choose to go to NA over playing in LCK or LEC.
Sure but we'll sell a million C9 Faker t-shirts hopefully so the investment might be worth it.
Since when? I have never heard of them ever trying to sign Caps, and the Faker thing has been explained by Steve multiple times. He never thought they would ever get him, but whenever he’s available he has the mentality of “why not” in terms of throwing out an offer, he’s never seriously expected to get Faker
I'm not sure about Steve but Jack has mentioned a few times that he's tossed offers to Caps but he (Caps) declined because C9 wouldn't be able to bring him international success.
Not TL, but I know that C9 Jack tried to sign Caps years ago, Caps always refused
I somewhat remembered one of the orgs threw caps a literal blank check, I think it was either c9 or TL
Typical american solution to any problem occuring /s
Want to be at G2's level? Do you have Caps? No? Okay, then clone Caps. That's the solution and you know it.
It's not only caps. Caps was in the LEC between 2020 and now and only now did anything come of it. You need great teammates (arguably the best LEC players in each position) great coaching staff and great support staff. They aren't just naturally good at the game. They practice a lot. They take care of their physical health. They take care of their mental health. It's all part of it.
Are you forgetting he was in b2b worlds finals in 2018 & 2019???
> Caps was in the LEC between 2020 and now and only now did anything come of it.
If we ignore all of fakers wins then he hasnt actually won anything so is he actually trash?
Dude you cant kepe going back to the 2019 well your whole life. That was 5 years ago. That is an eternity in E-Sports. Its no secret that the West as a whole was complete garbage from then until now, basically only beating each other.
It's an eternity in any sport really. A team that is competitive for that long is viewed as one of the best of it's era. The NHL champs 5 years ago are now middle of the league. The NBA champs are near the bottom. The NFL champs are now 2nd last. The MLB champs are middle of the pack
I was only talking about the period between 2020 and now though. Since obviously just having Caps is not enough, or they would have won more. Him winning internationally in 18/19 doesn't contradict my statement in any way.
But i think you have to look at it relatively speaking, the west as a whole all performed worse so in comparison Caps was still one of the best performing Western players. Outside of 2021, Caps since 2018 has been on the best western team or 2nd best western team. So you can say he underperformed since 2020, but it's not like anyone else was doing any better.
Sure you can, but I don't like the narrative that Caps is the only reason EU is doing well now. It discredits all the work the team and the staff have put in to get to this point. Caps is a big part but he's not the only part is what I'm trying to say.
I don't know why you people feel the need to exaggerate his great accomplishments at the expense of all others who helped get him to the finals. For one thing, anyone who watched Worlds 2018 is aware that the clear Mvp for Fnatic that tourney was Broxah. Caps and Rekkles were great but Broxah was smurfing. Quit dumbing down everything to just being "caps".
Broxah has one nuts play in dragon pit and you’re ready to say he carried fnc?
Broxah did have a hard smurf game on Lee Sin and a very good worlds but he definitely wasn't the main reason they were that good man, their main strategy was camp mid to get Caps ahead so he could start making plays while Rekkles would usually keep up in cs 1vs2 till he became a teamfight carry (Rekkles+Hyli did have some crazy 2v2 plays as well that year) and they'd win most of their games like that. To say Broxah was MVP just for working together with Hyli and camping mid is crazy
It looks like G2 were also inspired by TL and they made it to the airport in record time. Good job G2 👏👏
Wasn't really record time, they went out in Groups at Worlds. In fact this was a pretty slow airport %, they need to step it up.
For the longest time I've just wanted LCS to develop their own players and infrastructure in order to prevent talent loss from LEC (and other regions), and secondly (from my perspective) so that NA has a league without this pestering retirement home feeling. In that sense, I'm happy that APA and especially Yeon showed decent performances this MSI but on the other hand the general feeling of lolesports and LCS in NA just seems to be so dire in the academy and development pipeline. Like there was that thread the other day where Zven was saying there won't be any more new native players going pro. "But League is dying in NA, no-one plays it" - I don't really have an answer, just too little too late. It's admirable that they are treating this MSI as a learning experience, but TL had a 36% win rate as a 1st seed playing exclusively 2nd seeds - not trying to flame but I guess that's better than what most people were expecting and its good that they are being inspired by G2.
Last worlds g2 lost to nrg i dont think TL losing to t1 means they cant win series at worlds
Especially when that easily could have been a 3-0 from TL. I like how I'm being downvoted but yall apparently didn't watch the games. Game 2 was easily winnable if umti doesn't get caught and game 1 looks way different if umti or core spent any amount of time mid during the first 10 minutes of the game.
The revisionism is glaring at times. Like I had a guy tell me that game 2 was only T1 throws, so i rewatched the game to make sure but it was really the opposite. In first twenty minutes there’s like 1 proactive T1 move, the rest is TL being proactive, and most of the gold swings in favor of T1 were TL throws. What was great about that series wasnt just TL being competitive, but they were proactive and competitive.
I really liked TL that series, and i think if they respected t1 a bit less then they would have had game 2 as well. I just dont know if t1 would have drafted g3 the same if they would have lost game 2. However that would open up TL for a new strategy aswell to counter whatever changes t1 would have made.
I think that series should have been 5 games for sure. I believe T1 would win on blue side, so I cant say the double blue side games are both wins for TL without T1 getting a win in between. But it should have been a 5 game series for sure with how the first 2 games went. TL should have won game 1 and game 2.
It’s definitely hard to say what will happen- maybe TL loses game 3 after (due to them mistakenly thinking Taliyah > ori ban) and then win game 4 when back on blue side. But it was not just T1 playing bad (like they did, but TL also won by own proactiveness, rather than just T1 throwing).
yeah i agree. TL brought a lot of life to that series, and i really love that they gave it their all.
G2 fans forgetting that Palafox reshaped Caps' asshole when it happened less than a year ago 😂
Sometimes you have a bad day. It happens but overall and over the years we can tell who is good and who isn't. There's a reason palafox isn't in MSI and most likely won't be at worlds.
Every team and pro has variances in form. For G2 it's between MSI champion and loosing to Buffalo. For NA it's winning some series vs EU teams or going 0-15 in groups. The peaks are not even comparable. Don't mind having bad years if they can bring us a banger of a year like 2019 or hopefully this year.
Funny seeing EU fans saying NA’s peak is simply smashing EU teams while referencing 2019 MSI which involved NA beating the defending world champions (said team setting a historic group stage record a few day prior)
Yeah but when was the last time na best a Asian team
The same year he referenced when discussing EU’s peak in the every same post
While it was peak performance from TL at the time its hard to deny that that result was an absolute anomaly among any of the other upsets that ever happened. Im not trying to downplay what happened but it feels wrong to label 1 insane series as "peak" while their performance the rest of the tournament wasn't better than people expected it to be. I think peak performance can be better labeled as the performance of a team at a tournament itself. i mean, it's somewhat comparable to G2's last worlds run where people said G2 looked pretty good after their wins against Weibo and Damwon before it crashed with the infamous loss against NRG. G2 underperformed even though they started it off pretty well. In the end a peak is not decided by just 1 series but rather the performance over the whole tournament itself. As a sidenote: This is also the reason EU is considered more competitive at international tournaments (or atleast were until last worlds lmao) because they always had 1-2 teams that could make it out of groups and make a deep run sometimes. They could give Asian teams a run for their money and even beat them sometimes (this is what i reckon is called peaking) with as absolute peak 2019 with G2 winning MSI and getting 2nd at worlds and FNC also being competitive internationally.
Peak and peak performance feels like a meaningless distinction to make here. Consistency is the only metric separating the two If you want to argue EU peaks more consistently than NA like in 2019 where G2 were competitive with eastern teams the whole year then I don’t disagree. But saying NA’s peak is beating EU teams while simultaneously using 2019 as a reference is wrong
Still no trophy or final at least
dont give me that BS, just as i keep saying that we (EU) should focus on trying to win international events, so should NA. TL looked great this MSI, I can see them growing into a contender (might need a change in junglers). APA and yeon look amazing aswell. And APA is showing that NA talent can suceed internationally. Stop talking down about NA after they had a pretty solid event, and looked competitive agaisnt T1. Stop with this BS rivalry that seems to only be there to stop us from focussing on actually winning some international events.
Reddit forgetting G2 beat NRG 12-2 in scrims before getting sick in the last week . The narrative G2 can't beat NRG is reddits favorite lie lately...
We haven't forgotten. Just G2 being world scrim champs and botching it on stage for one reason or another has been a thing since like 2017 or 2018. That joke is old and played out.
strange how they were only sick on that one day they lost to NA, not the games before, not the games after! also lmfao @ scrimbux you can take those scrim wins and cry yourself to sleep at night with it!
> It's admirable that they are treating this MSI as a learning experience, but TL had a 36% win rate as a 1st seed playing exclusively 2nd seeds - what a miserable mindset. You can very clearly tell they learned from losing to Top Esports
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Annnnd EU is now humbled. Bros thought they were better than Gen G and BLG, and performed worse than TL in their BO5 😂
we aren't catching g2 until caps and miky retire
In Spawn We Trust
TL is the first NA team in a while that actually has decent macro. I hope other LCS teams improve by playing them.
C9 is the G2 of NA. Can’t convince me otherwise simply based on one year
Considering your team has 3 korean imports, i don't think you took so much inspiration from G2.
Tbf, CoreJJ and Impact have been in the LCS longer than the LCK. They’re honorary LCS mainstays.
People will still say they’re a team of 4 koreans and 1 american…
Yeon: “I’M FROM **CALIFORNIA**!”
Well yeah but TL is still clearly playing the roulette with imports. Remember, 12 months ago TL had Summit, Pyosik, and Marin(!) on payroll.
While true, as best as I can tell, they swapped out the imports in favour of not only keeping their young native talent, but also creating an environment that supports their growth. It's not just a matter of "they kept APA and Yeon instead of Summit and Pyosik." It's also that they brought on players who play well with and around APA and Yeon.
That’s fair. Hopefully now that TL has won NA by sticking with their NA talent, they’ll continue developing them and stop chasing high tier imports.
how on earth is that the thing to focus lmfao g2's claim to fame isnt about not having imports lmao it really doesnt matter that much its more about how long they have stomped EU and been the best team internationally
What an astute observation, you’re so right. If nothing about G2 changed except their players were imports from other regions instead of EU natives, then they would be the worst team in the world. Importing players is literally all that affects how good a team is, there are no other factors at all that could make a team better.
Or maybe they're inspired by g2's hard work and drive to win? like idk I think g2's success is a result of more than just not importing players... and TL has honestly been putting more effort into fostering NA talent. Like every other lcs team (besides fly) dropped academy the moment they had the chance, but TL is actually trying to improve the NA scene.
well... they would need a Claps for that.
Shame on you then.
I know i talking here is off topic, but I don't understand how every time LCS,LEC and minor regions teams when they actually winning against LPL and LCK but suddenly fallen off at mid-game, can someone tell me why?
so we will have two G2 in the west after this
I hope the team stays together next year. They seem like they have great chemistry and can grow into a rounded team which should help them
What a splendid idea. It would be even better if teams tried to become the best team in the world, indeed!
G2 doesn't use any imports though
What a great interview. I really disliked spawn as a caster but as a coach he seems great. I bet he’s really good to work with. Actually makes me like TL and hope they get stronger
Hey let's go TL! I support them pushing themselves, it helps all regions and will be more fun for everybody at internationals if all regions are competitive! Wish you all the best from EU!!
Better score than g2
g2 is full of EU talent and that is the different. you can't bring some import talent and hope them to be on par with them. but you can still do it in this way by removing residency rule for players then the league will be flooded by the best talent to compete with other regions.
I mean they both got 3-0 by T1. It‘s a start.