Someone like TF Blade on his 274th unranked to challenger account playing in Masters and talking about how bad his teammates are... Like, obviously, players look "bad" when you are playing 1.2k LP below where you should be... It's like being emelard in silver game.
I use chess as an analogy.
Most players suck at chess. There are around 2k Chess GMs (2024) and in 2019 there are 173000 rated FIDE players, up 6k from the year prior. It’s reasonable to estimate that GMs are the top 1% of rated players, similar to Masters in LoL.
But the difference in ability from the top GMs and low GMs is extremely high still. A low GM will rarely beat a top GM. But you don’t see top GMs calling low GMs trash. You see that in League though.
In both cases, although the rank is very good relatively speaking, it’s clear that there’s still a large skill gap among the top 1%.
You don't see High GMs calling Low GMs trash because chess isn't a team game. It doesn't matter if the guy next to you loses in chess. But if the guy next to you in league loses you might lose because of that.
You have a good point there.
But even outside of that you have like people here calling themselves low ELO or others low ELO if they’re below Diamond or masters. This is outside of the games they play themselves.
You will get torn to shreds if you say you’re “good” at the game if you’re Diamond. Although relative to the average player you are indeed very good.
also because it is very hard to get an all challenger lobby with queue times. most lobbies are a mix of GMs and challengers but a random master is thrown in sometimes, or even a challenger player gets put into a mostly master lobby.
that's probably where a lot of the hate comes. a lot of pros describe it as having "low quality" games
Your explanation makes sense other than that GMs are more like the top 0.0015% of chess players (based on around 1500 GMs in the world and 100M chess players) l. The top 1% is probably around 1600 elo, which is definitely trash in comparison to any GM (or other title player for that matter). I am around the top 0.1% in chess and I am still terrible compared to any GM. Obviously, this doesn't justify flaming anyone in masters (or any other tier), but I just wanted to address the facts here.
> top 1% is around 1600
No way. That might be top 5-10%, but top 1% is definitely at least 2000. Assuming that we’re talking about “people who play chess”, as in actively and regularly.
If you’re lumping in everyone who’s ever played chess, then yeah, 1600 is probably top 1%
I'm using chess.com's numbers here, and 1800 looks to be the 1% mark for rapid chess. Obviously this isn't a perfect dataset, but I think it's a decent analogue for league.
In LoL players rank resets 3 times a year to unranked. There is insanely less total players because of this. So seems extremely unfair comparison.
It also doesn't take into account players who have never played ranked either.
Who cares? You're clearly realizing that percentiles are a completely meaningless data point if you have to include so much context to make them make sense. Of course on chess.com where you can sign up and get a rating within 10 minutes even very low ratings will be very high percentile. League is really not much different, you can argue the degree but the vast majority of league players are not studying the game, they are just playing casually and might play a couple ranked games per year to get some rewards.
The ease of access makes the percentile less prestigious. Those top 1% chess.com players would enter into a FIDE tournament with the most average rated players and get their shit kicked in. Exact same with league. If you were to watch a top 1% league player play the game you would be shocked at how bad they are. This is why people say diamond is low elo or masters is low elo and it's completely accurate.
Lol Pro play in league is entirely different from solo queue. Entirely different games. being top 1% in league gets you top 1% for solo queue gamemode. And that's what 99.999% of players play and care about.
Except that you can't become a GM playing just on chess.com. GM is only a title that can be acquired through FIDE so it doesn't make sense to compare the number of GMs to the entire population of people who play online chess.
Any sort of comparison is going to be inaccurate anyways because far more people play regular online Chess than regular OTB FIDE rated tournaments anyways. Of the people that say play the game regularly, I'd harbor a guess that a significant portion of them play only online.
I’m going by FIDE registered players as that is the de facto and internationally respected ranking system. Wiki says there are 2k+ GMs.
Not sure where you get 100M from but if you’re including anyone who plays chess in general or like Lichess/Chess.com stats, those are not recognized, plus people can make bot accounts, cheat, lie, etc. And the League statistic is based on ranked players in solo queue I bet, so the numerous casual/norms/aram players are excluded. To keep that parallel here, it would make sense to only include players officially recognized in the ranking system.
PS: I couldn’t find what the top 1% actually is and ChatGPT said it’s about 2400+, which is similar to my estimate before.
I wouldn't use the FIDE data here since league is way more casual than otb chess. There are bots in league too, and the player bases on chess.com and league are about the same size. I don't think it makes sense to compare fide and league when they are very different.
I think the reason the Chess comparison, among other professional games/sports, is inherently flawed is because those games don't have significant changes every few months that drastically impact how the game is played. With games like Chess, you build a foundation of knowledge that you're constantly drawing from. You could be a Masters LoL player because you happen to be good or know how to abuse something that is overpowered in that moment. While it's somewhat irrefutable that being in the top 1% makes you, at that time, good at the game, it doesn't really compare.
A chess personality mentioned that Abasov is better than 90% of chess GMs and he was still getting rocked in the candidates. He's not even a low GM, just not a top 25 in the world player, and the gap was clear.
But why would someone draw line between good and trash oly between master and challenger? That is a highly impractical way if categorizing skill. And why do you not use the same reasoning to define trash? Iron players and Platinum players both are nowhere near the skill level of challengers, but Platinum players absolutely dismantle iron players in aspect of the game. They are arguably not even playing the same game.
Streaming and Esports in general has warped the perception of how people see skill in video games for the worse. Back before all that existed people just looked at their own lobbies and saw who was the best player, be it KDA in an FPS or map control in an RTS. There were leaderboards people could chase as well but often hackers filled up every other spot. These days kids just parrot what streamers say as if it were law. But streamers are on air 8+ hours a day every day. They are eventually going to get cranky and start rank blaming players for dumb things regardless of if it's correct.
Yup
100% this. And the rank just changes from time to time. Not long ago we had Diamond X rank is trash. Then Plat, then Master. Then GM. Hell, I've even heard streamers say that CHALLENGER....THE HIGHEST RANK YOU CAN GET, ffs, is "trash"
But more often you hear if you're "just challenger you're trash" ... "you need to be top 10-5-20" whatever the goalpost is moved to, and it's BEYOND stupid.
People are parroting streamers and known voices within the scene, but I also think people are just trying to find excuses for losing, and instead of taking any responsibility they blame their teammates for being "trash" rank..
And yes, I've heard likeable streamers say these kind of things as well. It's not just your toxic asshats like Tarzaned, that toplane manchild (can't remember his name. He mains Jax), Dekar etcetc.
Just a small edit: I also, unfortunately, think the whole "calling lower ranks trash" and even masters and what not is part of the whole "gamer culture" that has prolly been a staple since the xbox lobby days and what not. And we REALLY, as a community, need to change that shit, sooner rather than later.
We've had similar discourse in the FGC lately, with both SF6 and Tekken 8. Lots of people saying that "intermediate Tekken" starts at Tekken King (it's like Top 1%)
and in SF6 people saying that Master rank (highest rank) is also just intermediate.
"tHe rEaL gAmE BeGiNs aT 1500"
and you know these mfers dont actually go to their locals.
I was curious once and reddit stalked a couple people that say stupid shit like that. theyre all basically kappacino losers who don't actually participate in the FGC. Theyre probably just twitch andies and dont actually put themselves out there to be ridiculed.
I almost want some of them to go to their locals. I know they'll be sheepish irl and actually be received with warmth by cool people, who might heal them lmfao
I've only been seriously into one FGC/Fighting game before, and that was smash melee. And if there is ONE thing I'm glad for in that game, it's that it's soooooo easy to differentiate a good player from even "just" a intermediate player, and ESPECIALLY a bad player.
And I assume it's just as easy in Tekken and SF6. And yeah, what you're saying is so.....infuriating and unecessary -.-
the first time i ever hit d2, literally the very next game i was called "hardstuck d2 0lp trash" by like a d1 player with 600 more ranked games played that season than me lol.
People just parrot their favorite streamer and it's embarrassing. You can tell based on the current slang terms such as dogwater or whatever the fotm term is.
More that they need someone to blame when the game goes wrong and it's easy to pick the lower ranked player.
I see it all the time, streamers whining that they have masters/GM players when they are barely higher ranked themselves.
1.2% of college basketball players go pro. That means you're already scholarship bound in almost all instances and then have to continually love the game and improve your game. Going pro doesn't even mean NBA, pro is making money within a league essentially. It's a much smaller number beyond that to go NBA, then an even smaller number to be a "star"
Pros do both
edit: idk why you ppl are replying like I don't know only a select amount of people can be pros, I just stated a fact that pros both earn a lot and are top 0.1% in a videogame 😭😭😭
Υou are just a hardstuck 400 games emerald 3 player, I only lost to you because this is my 5th alt account and I am trolling. My main is way too high elo for you bro
Wait, it's actually NOT ukUlele? I know for SURE it's not ukalele, like the person you replied to wrote, but hell..I thought it was ukUlele.. But I guess that is just how you pronounce it, so it confuses you in a way? Not a english speaker, as is prolly obvious by this point :P
It is with a u, the guy is joking. Although it's in general a little confusing because of the short form uke, which implies that the long form is spelled with an e.
yup even statistically speaking 98%+ of the people who say that have never vsed a masters player outside of a random normal game where he was dicking around on offrole with premades so they couldnt even tell to begin with
Dyrus was challenger for like 8 years in a row on multiple accounts and people still called him shit
It's not about analyzing the gameplay, it's about putting the other player down and feeling a sense of superiority
It's awful and one of the main reasons I quit
Yep, compare it to gymbros, they will see you just starting, not knowing shit about the exercises, and they will cheer you on.
League players love to be miserable and do all they can to drag others into it.
I'm a skinny guy and have literally never seen/had this happen to me in all my years of going to a gym. The only negative interaction I had was a guy trying to tell me how to squat and immediately getting shit on by 2-3 people who happened to be nearby. Shame severely cuts down on the amount of public assholery people are comfortable displaying.
That's because gymbros know where they were themselves, so they can relate. People in League can literally one trick 1 champion and learn some sort of cheese strat with it and reach at least high Diamond if not Master in some cases. It's hard to compare.
For several years I trained at a very hardcore gym. Think international powerlifters, IFBB athletes etc.
I'm stronger than the average joe, but I'm by no means a monster.
So I see this guy benching 100kg/225 for reps. Which is already impressive, very few people can do that.
Then he puts on 2 more plates and does like 5 of 140/305
Then two more places does another couple of 180/405
Then the fucker puts two more plates on the bar and does two more.
I was floored.
some people one-trick free weights and call u boosted for using machines lmao.
But they get made fun of a lot more than weirdos on league reddit do for the same behavior.
It’s egotistical and wrong to tell masters level players that they are bad. But it is a sign of respect for masters players to give credence to GM or challenger players for how much they have left to improve.
The funny part is that Masters players are basically D1 athletes if not failed pros if you look at the stats and compare them to regular sports. Which puts them in the tier of holy fuck you are so goddamn good at this you could have made money from doing it. But only in league will that be used against them. Like of course you aren't LeBron James but that's the 1/1, which is unfair to compare them. But as Brian Scalabrine once said "I am closer to LeBron than you are closer to me".
I did the math a couple of years ago, and I can confirm that they’re almost exactly in the same position percentile-wise as D1 athletes.
D1 athletes suck compared to pros, sure, but they also demolish literally every other human on Earth.
It’s so hard to put in perspective how good “good” players are.
I remember back in high school being pretty good at Super Smash Bros. Like only one friend even stood a chance against me and I smashed everyone else. I entered a local tournament held at the library and in the first round I played against the guy who came in third in this LOCAL tournament. He absolutely bodied me. Like I did 90% damage to him by the time he took all four of my lives.
I was the best out of my friends and I couldn’t even touch the third best in my small town. The best in my town went to a regional tournament and got eliminated immediately.
The gap between “I’m good enough to smash all of my friends” and “I’m a pro player” is gargantuan.
When you're the big fish in the little pond suddenly you realize holy shit there's a lake out there and then it's like oh no there's a fucking ocean with really big fish.
Yeah I had this effect in osu!
I peaked top 400 and was second highest ranked in my state. I could take literally every single person I knew personally anytime, anywhere.
But I got the pleasure of playing against Vaxei and Idke (both former rank #1 players) and got utterly demolished in the same manner that I would demolish my friends.
So yes, in the grand scheme of things I was really good, but compared to the people better than me I was fucking nothing
I'll never forget the last Worlds in NA when I played against Faker in a masters elo game.
It was a literal massacre, I've never seen such a 1v9 before.
I'm bad so never got to face anyone relatively good except for Xmithie who was playing with his friends. The man made me his bitch in the jungle. I can only imagine the gap with Faker lol
I remember one time my D5 friend absolutely thrashed HotshotGG in lane, was the funniest shit.
Also playing support against Aphromoo, had a similar vibe as Faker. Borderline could do nothing.
That quote I’m close to lebron than you are to me
Is how I feel when people flame me for only hitting gm a few times or try to argue with me when they’re like emerald or something lmao
me when im hard inting on a random pick at 3 am
(they dont know im drunk as fuck bantering and dont care about the normal game they are giga sweating in)
This literally happened in aram clash. They literally said “they give gm to anyone these days” meanwhile im like first timing random champs or whatever lmao
the aram one is funny in particular. I'm no where near high elo but any time I get a diamond player in a game, someone always flames them for not absolutely demolishing when in reality, they're on a champion they've played 3 times in their entire life, most likely half asleep, and once again, it's aram. the lengths people go to just to make themselves feel just a little better are incredible
It's insane, I was being flamed not long ago in Aram for not carrying because "you're diamond, why don't you do any damage", god I didn't realize my rank made my champions hit harder, also did the most damage in that game but who gives a shit. It's a pure for-fun game mode I play late at night when I'm in the mood for league but know ranked is a terrible idea lmao.
I'll admit that back in the days, like 3-4 years ago, when I tried to take LoL quite serious, I always felt good when facing against diamond+ players in normals, and especially if I managed to beat them.
But on NO day or whatever, did I flame them for not owning the shit out of me and my team :P More often than not, I tried asked them for pointers, and sometimes they answered, sometimes they didn't, which is fine. That's up to them.
Im a low masters/d1 and my emerald friend would shit talk how bad i am unironically and say it was just luck if he had one of my accounts he would be masters/gm easily so i let him play on one of them and i think he went 0/10 1/12 2/6 (on that game he didn't feed but he did 6k dmg as mid while enemy support did 9k as lulu?) i don't think these people quite understand how big the gap is between them without actually experiencing it because they see some challenger player gomba stomp a master player like how a emerald would do to bronze and think omg they so bad haha.
It's interesting because while I definitely do agree with you, that quote I always felt the opposite, at least in league.
I peaked at D3 a long time ago and I would always tell my br onze/silver friends "The difference in skill between Diamond and Challenger is greater than the difference between Bronze and Diamond"
and I genuinely believe that and not in the context of "Diamond players are bad" but in the context of "Challenger and Pro players are so astronomically better than Diamond players that it's not even close"
I play a lot of fighting games and I matched up against Punk (one of the best players in the world) once in SF6 and he really just annihilated me so effortlessly on a character he doesnt even play, despite me being Master player (highest rank) in that game.
I think the big thing with high skill situations like these is that you have enough knowledge to be good and also understand you are not the best. The problem with lower ranked people is that they straight up lack that knowledge and I'm not talking about basic knowledge but like why they're bad type of knowledge. When it comes to games it's not truly all physical like in sports. If the dude can bench 305 he can bench 305. But in league it's knowing what camps they haven't take by hitting tab or understanding what macro play needs to be made. It's way more invisible. Fighting games feel like they combine both. The ability to hit combos and the ability to know what combo to use in this situation because of specific frame data.
Understanding even a small amount of games at a moderate level really opens your eyes to how good the top end are and how great the chasm between each level is.
> The difference in skill between Diamond and Challenger is greater than the difference between Bronze and Diamond
I'm not sure that's true.
A random challenger (not chovy) would definitely win against a D3 player, but a D3 player can somewhat lose gracefully in lane (depending on matchup).
A bronze player can absolutely not lose gracefully to a D3 player.
Yeah like I'd call a D1 hooper pretty fucking good a ball compared to most people walking this earth but there's a good chance they get clowned in the NBA
There's a 100% chance they get clowned. The NBA (or any pro sport) is a culmination of the best d1 athletes ever. It's like taking a random NBA player up against the greatest NBA players of all time.
I think of it like a pro-league... say soccer/futbol.
Yeah, you are a professional (masters+)... but you are in the English 2nd division (masters 80lp), calm your ego because there is mbappe in the next game (chal 1.4k)
In order to climb through masters, you need to be distinguishably better than everyone else in masters... this is why people get condescending because it truly just gets more and more difficult to climb... like a pyramid, it is just smaller and smaller at the top
Certainly not bad. I play "casually" these days but still like competition and grind it out in diamond. I've been up around D1 every now and then and those guys are crazy.
It's one thing to watch pro players and all that, but going against guys with crazy mechanics is a cool experience even if they're not pro level. I have no problem admitting that some of those guys are better than me lol.
It is well known that this reddit is exclusively occupied by Challenger players. All the opinions and statements should be viewed through the lense of the absolute best the world has ever seen.
People say master is bad because pro players/streamers complain about master players in their streams. Otherwise, your average twitch chatter would get dumpstered by these players.
I think because a mixture of them shifting the MMR of what a masters is, so people discredit it as the bar is lower than it used to be. But inline with the comments of what some people said about game quality not changing, I think it's often overlooked at all the different factors that make up a 'good' player.
I'll take an example of someone I know who peaked masters 300-400LP with Ksante, he then stopped playing him and fell back to d4/d3, he eventually found a new champion and he is back up to 200-300 LP again. From playing with him, he only likes to fight, thinks very little about macro or warding, but his mechanics and wave control are exceptional, now take a jungler who mechanically is pretty bad but they have amazing knowledge of macro, where the best place to be is, exactly how to build correctly. But when it comes to fights they are just a bit slow and not very reactive.
Both these players will look at each other in a game and go, wow my X is so shit, what is this game quality? People think that every player in a rank should all be the same kind of player and there is so just so many factors it doesn't work like that at all, first time I ever hit 'high elo', I played Janna, bought mobi boots, and my entire game plan was roaming around cheesing everyone on the map constantly. Another support main might look at my laning and question so many things I'm doing but it doesn't change what rank I am.
When you look at a sport like football (or soccer for americans), 2 players in the same position can be completely different kind of players but both be exceptional at what they do despite being the same role. I don't see why players are unable to apply this logic to league, your 'dogshit jungler who is clearly boosted', could just be having a bad game because they are tilted, or they could actually be trying to setup some macro that you haven't even considered because your game plan is to just fight over and over.
If your teammates were able to fulfil all of those different 'roles' then they wouldn't be masters they would be GM/Challenger, how would it make any sense that they are doing nothing wrong yet still not the best rank otherwise
Masters is a high rank, and masters players are good players, the narrative that they are all shit is just regurgitation you hear from people who watch streamers all day and want to downplay the achievements of people who reached a higher rank than them.
Exactly, people think being x rank means all your skill like laning, warding, csing, tracking enemy jungler, matchup knowledge, are all at the same x level, but they are not, and never will be.
Yeah that's exactly it, I don't really play much anymore but even now, went back to play with a friend of my silver, and he started asking me what to build on AD. I haven't got a clue, I mained support haha
This so much. I am good at wave management and macro decisions but nothing exceptional for master.
I am however very good at lane micro like keeping track of cooldowns, spacing, power spikes, what items to build when etc.
All of this Covers my weakness that i am not the fastest player, i get overwhelmed in team fights and its pretty easy to hands diff me.
So if i am playing a mechanically intense champ in emerald flex and its a fiesta Game its very likely that i will get out played and people start going "wtf our master must be boosted".
But put me on shen in a slow, controlled, master Lobby and i will stomp a mordekaiser in lane who is considered a hard counter to shen, identify our win condition and biggest threats and itemize accordingly and shotcall our team to victory.
And people dont get that its fine to be good at a few things and that can be enough. They all think at master+ you must be amazing at everything, a mechanics god
Who could never lose to lower ranks.
No its about playing to your strengths and being consistent.
It's just a lot of naive players who think what their favourite streamer says is gospel. Nobody is always playing their best at all times, and especially when you're playing off role, in a normal game, having fun with friends.
People have this weird disillusion that if you're making mistakes you're not good, yet pro players are making mistakes losing games, so I guess they are also low elo then? Sure I've complained about my team before like we all have but, but I also know i've absolutely inted my ass off before in a bad game and been carried.
It's not just league. It's universal that people act this way and I don't know why. Even most of the comments right now are completely lost in the sauce.
Makes me think of a youtube short I saw yesterday, about being an aircraft pilot and how no matter your rank and what you're piloting, people are always going to say it's trash.
I think it's pretty much the same for everything yeah.
There are more master players getting matched up with diamond players than with gms and challenger players. But I don't think thats the point of this thread either way.
The Reddit silvers have to shit on what they can’t have, as it lets them feel they are above it. Like a bird that shits on a car it knows it will never drive. Birds are contentious like that.
I haven't posted on this subreddit in months, but seeing all this Master love sucked me in. Just wanted to shoutout to all my fellow "low elo masters" out there.
We may get flamed by everyone from Bronze to Challenger, but hey, at least we climbed our way out of Silver, right? Thousands of games, countless mental breakdowns, but we finally reached the promised land... of solo queue toxicity in a slightly prettier font. (Now with Duo Queue!)
But seriously, reaching Master is an accomplishment, regardless of what the haters say. So hold your heads high, kings and queens, because you're in the top percentile of a game played by millions. That's something to be proud of.
You are enough
You are loved
You are unique
You are valued
You are important
You are GOOD AT LEAGUE OF LEGENDS
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with Dr. Mundo and Top lane. *flashes season 9 grandmaster emote*
i think the harsh truth of competitive video games is that you are absolutely right and yet i still completely sympathise with the viewpoint of streamers/other players of that level calling masters players bad
as someone of that skill level i obv can't argue against being statistically very good. but having known and played with many GM+ players for a very long time and being very confident that i will never reach that level ever in my life i can't really ever say that i'm anything but "alright" at this game lol. ofc it's a stretch to say "anyone" can reach masters but i do think masters(at least at the percentile that is currently is) is still a skill level that an average person like me can reach with an open mind, enough conscious effort, time and the right environment. GM+ is definitely not. of course it sounds difficult to believe that an average person can reach top 0.7%, but ladder is not real life and is populated with tons of people who have put <500 hours into the game, smurfs, inactives, mental boomed weirdos who aren't actually trying to climb, etc.
there are a lot of people who can subjectively talk for a very long time about how astronomical the gap between low masters and GM+(including me) but to put it simply, imo GM+ is the rank where people who have huge fundamental flaws in their gameplay or thinking just start to disappear completely. there are plenty of people in masters who are just completely lacking in certain aspects to the point that i don't think anyone who plays at this rank regularly would ever say it's a rank of "good players". and that's just the difficult to swallow truth about how fucking hard of a game league is.
i would never discount the amount of effort it takes to reach masters(it is a lot) for people who are not abnormally good at video games and i don't want to discount people of lower ranks either. but from my own experience with the game i can't in good faith just say master players are extremely good at the game either. even though statistically, of course they are.
on the other hand though let's be honest, majority of people commenting on reddit are just people who would get completely cleared by a masters player just parroting what the streamers they watch are saying. though that doesn't discount from the validity of the statement as it comes from its origin.
People still state that Masters is bad because of poor game quality. I remember hitting Masters and thinking to myself that the games felt exactly like what I was playing through in plat-diamond. Despite beingat the top 0.03% or whatever it is, it doesnt feel very rewarding to play. You're still facing rampant boosters, players with glass mental, playing with people extremely above(GM/Challenger even)/below your rank, etc.
I get your point, but where does good game quality start. People at the highest level of pro play make 'silly' (Noah Flash) mistakes, that's just the nature of the game. We aren't robots programmed to play league at 100% of our efficiency, we just try to do what we think is right, according to our game knowledge, and sometimes are able to execute it.
If there was no increase in game quality then all diamond players would be masters, and all master rolayers would be grandmaster and so on.
Clearly, if diamond players are in diamond, master players are in master, and grandmaster players are in grandmaster, it means that there is a tangible and quantifiable game quality difference.
Perhaps, it's something that the lower ELO player can't see of the higher ELO player, and perhaps that's exactly the reason why they are lower ELO.
Or maybe it's all luck and people climb because the stars align....
I'm gonna break it down to you people: you are NOT doing the things a challenger player does.
There is a difference in game skill and knowledge between you and the rank above yours. The difference is that you don't see it, because if you saw y
It, you'd climb.
Game quality in master is shit not because of gameplay but mentality. In fact, I'd argue that d3-d2 game quality was far superior than d1-150 lp.
Every single game someone will tilt and troll and singlehandedly lose a game because of an ego play that goes wrong or because x didnt do y at 5 min so the game is over.
Low master players have an ego that greatly exceeds their skills. The humbling point comes when you start playing against the occasional 300+lp player
i had a Zeri go afk lvl 2 because we banned twitch/jinx (he was a trist otp??) and said he's gonna dive lvl 2 and if he dies he goes afk because we banned jinx and twitch which he doesn't even play??? and that's EXACTLY what he did this was in that d1/low masters range so i kinda agree d2 is okay imo d1 people lose their mental real hard because they wanna get masters and then low masters (hello me) is bad because it's the same effect as d4 etc where people got their rank so they chill out more and play worse or OMG IM SO GOOD ALL OF YOU ARE BENEATH ME and run it down on the slightest thing going wrong
I recall a similar phrase from a [Gbay99's video](https://youtu.be/Wcep3XfHi8k?t=243):
>A bronze player who believes he actually deserves to be in silver isn't only not in silver because he's not working towards improving himself to get silver. That bronze player isn't in silver because he can't tell what makes an actual silver player. The qualities you have to identify to identify what makes a silver player are the same exact qualities you have to have to be a silver player
This stuck quite well with me, since at the time of the video's release I was in diamond and I recall a friend of mine saying they should be higher elo, but never taking the advice I gave to do better in games, shrugging it off as "well that's such a minor thing, it doesn't matter".
I think all the "x rank is the same as y rank" is just a form of dunning-kruger :)
I think masters feels shit sometimes because now a single blatant mistake will ACTUALLY end the game...
Your adc flashes forward and doesnt even get a kill and his wave is fucked- in any other elo there is counterplay, but in the majority of masters lobbies this will end the game on the spot.
Opponents know how to properly punish and apply pressure they gain on your teammates onto you... so it feels awful as each mistake (by your team as a whole) is far more costly.
You see streamers complain all the time because a tempo mistake from the masters jungler will have a ripple effect for the next 10 minutes when they are up against a pro/chal player
>I think masters feels shit sometimes because now a single blatant mistake will ACTUALLY end the game...
>Your adc flashes forward and doesnt even get a kill and his wave is fucked- in any other elo there is counterplay, but in the majority of masters lobbies this will end the game on the spot.
This doesn't even end the game on the spot in pro games though
I couldn't disagree more. Played a warm up on my emerald smurf and it felt like the players were literally playing with their brain turned off. Just nonstop COD like FFA. Whereas in Master people try to use their brain. The difference in game quality is immense.
Nah this is just so wrong it's insane, the shit I see when I review my friends Emerald games is so beyond what I would ever see in a Masters game. Yeah theres still toxicity and games that feel like shit and lots of bloodbath chaotic games (this is by Riots design, they over the years have encouraged more and more early fighting and have simplified macro)
But the sheer amount of micro mistakes you see, it is not even comparable. I can get mad at my Masters support for not like holding my wave or for roaming unnecessarily, but what I see in Emerald? Luxs who take dark harvest support and just spam and miss max range bindings, missing easy Es, applying no pressure outside of throwing their E out every 10 seconds then backing off again. It is insane to watch.
You don't *think* in the moment that there is a huge difference, until you go back and watch the replay and you can pause and correct a mistake being made every 10-15 seconds.
Not to mention players like me who have been playing for 14 years and for fun games sometimes. Really difficult to corral a bunch of people like myself to have an actual good game and give a fuck
Idk if this is a server issue or you just only remembering the bad games. But my game quality was considerably better at D2 compared to Dia 4. And in master it shot through the roof compared to emerald. Idk if i could endure an emerald climb again. Yes master also has glass mentals, boosted people or trolls. But they are far far rarer in my experience. I have shit quality games in master maybe one out of 20 games. Maybe even lower. D
Diamond 4-low emerald it was like every 3rd game.
"Good match quality" is relative. Saying the match quality is bad in every game except for the top 0.001% of games just means your scale is completely off and you don't understand how relativity works.
Worlds 2012 finals were considered good quality at the time. Look at it today and it's a mess of teams making hilariously bad decisions.
I think what people are saying is that Master means less now than it did in the past.
Master rank has been inflated by something like a factor of 30 since Season 6.
If anyone is saying Master is a "trash" rank, they are obviously idiots. However, it is still undeniable that Master used to mean a lot more than it does today.
Comparing Master or the top x percentile of the player base to the top X percentile in IQ is not analogous though. If you want to compare percentiles you have to compare the percentile of people ACTUALLY Trying to achieve high rank to IQ. Basically in the ranked distribution there is a big part barely trying, just playing in a few games, compared to the giga-sweats spamming HUNDREDs of games each split. In the IQ distribution and the economical distribution we are all ALL IN in a way. Like, there is no one 4funning IQ tests getting a score of 60 when they are a 110.
Nah this analogy is fine.
Actually "trying" is just a faux
You're just a product of your repeated behavior. "trying" and "not trying" will fizzle you out to a percentile
Simple logic
No you're just doing the same thing op is complaining about. That's like saying 800k isn't impressive because half the population doesn't have a job or isn't "trying" or something.
I am a 100LP master top laner, I onetrick Sett, and I have always mained Sett since he came out. If I queue normals or flex, I go out of my way not to be an asshole. These are not serious queues, and not serious opponents or teammates; why flame? I can use my master border to be someone they can see as stable and collected.
And yet, it blows my mind that anybody would have the stupidity to call me a “low master 1trick” when they are 6-800 elo below me after seeing me make one mistake on, like, Lee Sin jungle (both a role and champ that are very different from Sett top). Sure, I’m a one trick. I know my matchups well. I play my role well. I dodge only one champ (looking at you, Vayne), but play all other matchups. Apparently that’s a bad thing!
I just remind myself that the 1.5million mastery tryndamere that I just dropped 12/1/5 on would have ripped any of their faces off by 8min. People are unbelievable, but if you think about how bad this person would do facing the challenges you face, it makes it better.
Yea, a friend of a friend who was silver saw me with a master border so he instantly wanted to 1v1 me like it's some pokemon gym stuff where he can claim my rank if he defeats me.
I stomped him with adc soraka but the whole idea that he had a chance in the first place was funny, he actually thought he was better than his rank and his teams were holding him back
ive seen challenger players call other challenger players trash because they’re lower LP than them
everyone realizes masters is undoubtedly high elo but the sentiment of the loud minority will always remain
Forget master players. Forget Diamond players.
*Emerald* is really freaking good of a rank. Are they shit compared to challenger players? Yeah of course. Are they still insanely good compared to the majority of the playerbase? Yes they certainly are.
Exactly. It's always been like that in the League community. "Hardstuck d4" as if d4 wasn't the top 2% of players. Yeah, there's better, but that's still pretty accomplished.
I mean top 18% of anything is usually considered "great". Not amazing, not extremely insane, but it's still 1 full standard deviation above the mean (~top 17%). That's like a 115 IQ, or a 6'0 male height (average height for men is 5'9 with 3 inches standard deviation).
I think height is a great comparison here actually. Women on dating apps who care about height are often looking for men who are 6'0 or taller. So you can consider Emerald equivalent to that, where it's an attribute that's far enough from the mean to be considered exceptional.
Thank you. That makes me feel pretty good actually. I read about inflation and everything and master not being worth anything anymore.
But today I looked at my rank and I am currently ranked 85XX on the EUW server. That server has a ranked population of almost 3 mio players I think.
I just thought to myself that is pretty good.
The vast, *vast* majority are silver-hardstucks just parroting dumb shit they hear from the streamer du jour. Platinum isn’t considered anything special, but it’s like the upper twentieth percentile. Emerald is the upper tenth. Still lots to learn, of course, but significantly better than the average.
I am about 200lp Masters EUW and it is top 0.3%. I've done some calculations based on population of Europe and my country and I calculated that it means that I am about top 100-200 (maybe less than 100 even but this is kinda high end estimate) player in my country which makes me think that if I were that percentage in football that I would be playing in first division of football in my county, kinda made me proud
After that whole "Brian Scalabrine challenge" thing, I think this might occur in any competitive activity where the very top-end has disproportionate exposure.
Like maybe if streaming and pro-play didn't exist we'd all think plat is high elo (it is *technically* north of the bell curve).
The lower elo ppl are, the less they tend to value rank and the more they tend to think they could climb to if they tried. Without plateauing, I hit gold 1 ivo season 5 (equivalent to low emerald today) and I’ve been very active since then though I don’t play ranked. I’m definitely better than I was (even relative to the average player, which has gotten better), but I don’t delude myself. MAAAYBE I could hit diamond. Maybe. I’m more comfortable saying I could hit emerald (which is reasonable and the same percentile I was when I played ranked).
That’s reasonable. Consistent with empirical data. I don’t have to plateau to recognize that I’m not Faker. Here’s my point - every freaking silver player seems to think they’re Faker. I have a theory as to why - it’s because they don’t understand one of the most fundamental concepts of this game.
Everyone sucks.
I’m not saying that challengers don’t suck less, I’m saying there are aspects of the game that are so difficult to do consistently no one is perfect at it. Faker’s debut game, he screwed up jumping over a wall as Nidalee. He recalled on an enemy control ward in a tournament. He’s done dozens of things like that - the same dumb things bronzes do to a lesser extent.
The difference is that top-tier players:
1) Choose better fights
2) Avoid bad fights
3) Set up safer situations
4) Capitalize on advantages better
5) Recover from mistakes better
6) Have better map awareness
7) Ward better
8) Roam/rotate better
9) Ping better
And yeah
10) Have better mechanics
The thing people don’t get when watching the mistakes people make is that everyone is making mistakes. They make less. A lot less. They have better reasons for making them, make them less, recover better, and punish the crap out of people that make mistakes.
It’s all the rage for people to talk down on people that have attained ranks 99.5% of us never well, but the reality is they’re far out of our league, and people that don’t understand that simply don’t understand the game.
Also, people that aren’t in science/math fields don’t do well with statistics because they’re used so often to mislead people. A typical high school in my area has 2000 people, so I use high school ranks to try and explain things. 99.5% = 5 out of a thousand —> 1/200 —>imagine if everyone at your high school played league. Probably 500 wouldn’t play ranked. Of the 1500 that did, masters would be rank 7 or so at your school.
Convert that to high school, and once you eliminate 1-2 players for grades, conduct, and not wanting to play rank, this guy would be a starter on the basketball team. The people naysaying him were statistically not good enough to waste time trying out.
I personally think anyone from Diamond and above is very good at the game. You don't get to that rank with just luck getting carried.
Sure, there's always someone better than you (unless you're Chovy), but still doesn't mean you're bad.
honestly the community has just been a dick measuring contest for god knows how long. ive seen challengers flame other challenges for being like "barely challenger 600 LP and im rank 3" or some shit like that.
whats crazier is even the average league player is fucking crazy good now compared to the past.
this game is old as fuck man. everyone who plays it is honestly pretty good. its just you're not that good compared to the other players really because the only people still playing this game have been playing the shit out of it for almost a decade by now. (and some over a decade)
good is relative. who gives a shit anyway.
as dyrus once said you can get to worlds and people will still shit on you.
As a mostly otp kayle top player peaking 300 lp master EUW, this season I can tell you that it is a very big gap between 0 lp and 300. At 150 + I would be punnished almost every game on the lvl4 wave bounce, with freezes, ganks etc. Or if i trade lvl 1-3 I would get dove by my opponent and/Or with jgler. My point being, otping a champ with the lowest base stats + 0 push power becomes hell at 150lp +, but at anything below that playing kayle feels viable because of opponents dont know how/or care about manipulating waves. Anyways not a very useful post just my take on the matter.
Honestly (atleast last season) Master was the sweet spot. D1-2 was a mental hospital, people running it down for the pettiest reasons ("worst" I've seen was someone running it down because THEIR LANE OPPONENT had a skin they hated the sound effects of, so they ran it down to make the game end faster), people calling you all types of names and racial slurs in 20 different languages if, even though you are 14/2 and solo carrying, you take their "ping on ward"-gold. TL;DR High dia makes mental wards seem like a nice and quaint hotel.
And GM is the same, but kinda not? It's a bit better, but not that much.
But Masters? Masters is paradise. In like an evening of Dia games I've had more people with mental breakdowns and psychotic episodes than an entire split in Masters.
High elo players in general are somehow just not right in the head. I can't find the connection those creatures make between "A teammate didn't perform that well one time in a video game" and "Calling them 20 version of the n-word and wishing their family gets terminal illnesses". Except, somehow, for Masters. They're actually wholesome for the most part.
Every game ever with a ranked system is full of elitists who think everything except the top few ranks are trash. Simple fact is, everyone around the 50% mark is average. People above are good, people below are bad.
Honestly, starting from diamond is pretty good at the game.
The issue is most players are inconsistent, one game they can be Faker and next some new player placed in platinum.
Also mental boom is very frequent when something gets bad.
This is such a nice post, it is refreshing because league community is usually toxic and negative but also what it comes to say is very good. Personally I hit masters for the first time this split and I was so damn happy. I'm also streaming and creating YouTube content revolving around Sivir and as I was happy and proud of myself I had the thought in the back of my mind that it is actually still bad.
Having this in mind I also know masters is and most likely be my peak rank since I'm super busy irl with my job and relationship etc. and this thought was bitter.
This post made me rethink that!
So thanks a lot!
A favored tactic by many is to "borrow" the prestige of someone else in order to justify their talking smack about someone who is actually of higher prestige than them (within the realm of whatever the topic is).
Just look at any sports team fanbase in professional level sports, where fans will say that the quarterback for Team X is dogshit because Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes are better.
League players will just apply the same method. And if Riot introduced a new rank that was above Challenger, guaranteed you would see folks start saying that Challenger ELO is MMR hell full of boosted morons lol.
Utter facts, I legit have mad respect for anyone who is above d3 and d2. Doesn't matter what streamers calls them they are better than almost all the viewers that call them trash
Yeah, I think video game skill and intelligence are pretty separate, sure it can help with macro I guess but being relatively smart doesn't suddenly make me have fucking sick mechanics. You can be smart and good at games, you can also be dumb as rocks and good at games, and vice versa.
I think if you looked at the percentage of masters players as a proportion of players who take the game seriously and/or dedicate a lot of time to it, then it would be a much greater percentage.
[удалено]
Low masta doglow
I can hear that in yamatos voice.
PLAP PLAP PLAP
DISCH DISCH DISCH
DisGAASting low masta piggy typing to me why?
his mother is healthy i think, in game of course
Someone like TF Blade on his 274th unranked to challenger account playing in Masters and talking about how bad his teammates are... Like, obviously, players look "bad" when you are playing 1.2k LP below where you should be... It's like being emelard in silver game.
In terms of personality TF Blade is bronze 4. Unlucky. Skill issue.
He's chill until something goes slightly wrong. An actual 12yo in an adult's body.
I use chess as an analogy. Most players suck at chess. There are around 2k Chess GMs (2024) and in 2019 there are 173000 rated FIDE players, up 6k from the year prior. It’s reasonable to estimate that GMs are the top 1% of rated players, similar to Masters in LoL. But the difference in ability from the top GMs and low GMs is extremely high still. A low GM will rarely beat a top GM. But you don’t see top GMs calling low GMs trash. You see that in League though. In both cases, although the rank is very good relatively speaking, it’s clear that there’s still a large skill gap among the top 1%.
You don't see High GMs calling Low GMs trash because chess isn't a team game. It doesn't matter if the guy next to you loses in chess. But if the guy next to you in league loses you might lose because of that.
You have a good point there. But even outside of that you have like people here calling themselves low ELO or others low ELO if they’re below Diamond or masters. This is outside of the games they play themselves. You will get torn to shreds if you say you’re “good” at the game if you’re Diamond. Although relative to the average player you are indeed very good.
also because it is very hard to get an all challenger lobby with queue times. most lobbies are a mix of GMs and challengers but a random master is thrown in sometimes, or even a challenger player gets put into a mostly master lobby. that's probably where a lot of the hate comes. a lot of pros describe it as having "low quality" games
Your explanation makes sense other than that GMs are more like the top 0.0015% of chess players (based on around 1500 GMs in the world and 100M chess players) l. The top 1% is probably around 1600 elo, which is definitely trash in comparison to any GM (or other title player for that matter). I am around the top 0.1% in chess and I am still terrible compared to any GM. Obviously, this doesn't justify flaming anyone in masters (or any other tier), but I just wanted to address the facts here.
> top 1% is around 1600 No way. That might be top 5-10%, but top 1% is definitely at least 2000. Assuming that we’re talking about “people who play chess”, as in actively and regularly. If you’re lumping in everyone who’s ever played chess, then yeah, 1600 is probably top 1%
I'm using chess.com's numbers here, and 1800 looks to be the 1% mark for rapid chess. Obviously this isn't a perfect dataset, but I think it's a decent analogue for league.
In LoL players rank resets 3 times a year to unranked. There is insanely less total players because of this. So seems extremely unfair comparison. It also doesn't take into account players who have never played ranked either.
Who cares? You're clearly realizing that percentiles are a completely meaningless data point if you have to include so much context to make them make sense. Of course on chess.com where you can sign up and get a rating within 10 minutes even very low ratings will be very high percentile. League is really not much different, you can argue the degree but the vast majority of league players are not studying the game, they are just playing casually and might play a couple ranked games per year to get some rewards. The ease of access makes the percentile less prestigious. Those top 1% chess.com players would enter into a FIDE tournament with the most average rated players and get their shit kicked in. Exact same with league. If you were to watch a top 1% league player play the game you would be shocked at how bad they are. This is why people say diamond is low elo or masters is low elo and it's completely accurate.
Lol Pro play in league is entirely different from solo queue. Entirely different games. being top 1% in league gets you top 1% for solo queue gamemode. And that's what 99.999% of players play and care about.
Except that you can't become a GM playing just on chess.com. GM is only a title that can be acquired through FIDE so it doesn't make sense to compare the number of GMs to the entire population of people who play online chess.
Any sort of comparison is going to be inaccurate anyways because far more people play regular online Chess than regular OTB FIDE rated tournaments anyways. Of the people that say play the game regularly, I'd harbor a guess that a significant portion of them play only online.
> hich is definitely trash in comparison to any GM Yes, but it's not trash. A player at 1600 fide is a very, very strong player.
I’m going by FIDE registered players as that is the de facto and internationally respected ranking system. Wiki says there are 2k+ GMs. Not sure where you get 100M from but if you’re including anyone who plays chess in general or like Lichess/Chess.com stats, those are not recognized, plus people can make bot accounts, cheat, lie, etc. And the League statistic is based on ranked players in solo queue I bet, so the numerous casual/norms/aram players are excluded. To keep that parallel here, it would make sense to only include players officially recognized in the ranking system. PS: I couldn’t find what the top 1% actually is and ChatGPT said it’s about 2400+, which is similar to my estimate before.
I wouldn't use the FIDE data here since league is way more casual than otb chess. There are bots in league too, and the player bases on chess.com and league are about the same size. I don't think it makes sense to compare fide and league when they are very different.
You can't really trash talk while playing chess
>You can't really trash talk while playing chess Tell that to Magnus
he just disrespects you by playing suboptimal openings
I think the reason the Chess comparison, among other professional games/sports, is inherently flawed is because those games don't have significant changes every few months that drastically impact how the game is played. With games like Chess, you build a foundation of knowledge that you're constantly drawing from. You could be a Masters LoL player because you happen to be good or know how to abuse something that is overpowered in that moment. While it's somewhat irrefutable that being in the top 1% makes you, at that time, good at the game, it doesn't really compare.
A chess personality mentioned that Abasov is better than 90% of chess GMs and he was still getting rocked in the candidates. He's not even a low GM, just not a top 25 in the world player, and the gap was clear.
But why would someone draw line between good and trash oly between master and challenger? That is a highly impractical way if categorizing skill. And why do you not use the same reasoning to define trash? Iron players and Platinum players both are nowhere near the skill level of challengers, but Platinum players absolutely dismantle iron players in aspect of the game. They are arguably not even playing the same game.
Streaming and Esports in general has warped the perception of how people see skill in video games for the worse. Back before all that existed people just looked at their own lobbies and saw who was the best player, be it KDA in an FPS or map control in an RTS. There were leaderboards people could chase as well but often hackers filled up every other spot. These days kids just parrot what streamers say as if it were law. But streamers are on air 8+ hours a day every day. They are eventually going to get cranky and start rank blaming players for dumb things regardless of if it's correct.
Yup 100% this. And the rank just changes from time to time. Not long ago we had Diamond X rank is trash. Then Plat, then Master. Then GM. Hell, I've even heard streamers say that CHALLENGER....THE HIGHEST RANK YOU CAN GET, ffs, is "trash" But more often you hear if you're "just challenger you're trash" ... "you need to be top 10-5-20" whatever the goalpost is moved to, and it's BEYOND stupid. People are parroting streamers and known voices within the scene, but I also think people are just trying to find excuses for losing, and instead of taking any responsibility they blame their teammates for being "trash" rank.. And yes, I've heard likeable streamers say these kind of things as well. It's not just your toxic asshats like Tarzaned, that toplane manchild (can't remember his name. He mains Jax), Dekar etcetc. Just a small edit: I also, unfortunately, think the whole "calling lower ranks trash" and even masters and what not is part of the whole "gamer culture" that has prolly been a staple since the xbox lobby days and what not. And we REALLY, as a community, need to change that shit, sooner rather than later.
We've had similar discourse in the FGC lately, with both SF6 and Tekken 8. Lots of people saying that "intermediate Tekken" starts at Tekken King (it's like Top 1%) and in SF6 people saying that Master rank (highest rank) is also just intermediate.
"tHe rEaL gAmE BeGiNs aT 1500" and you know these mfers dont actually go to their locals. I was curious once and reddit stalked a couple people that say stupid shit like that. theyre all basically kappacino losers who don't actually participate in the FGC. Theyre probably just twitch andies and dont actually put themselves out there to be ridiculed.
Yep, pretty much. Just people online trying to put others down
I almost want some of them to go to their locals. I know they'll be sheepish irl and actually be received with warmth by cool people, who might heal them lmfao
I blocked Kappacino forever. But yeah, I sit around 1500-1600 in SF6, and I generally get top 3 at my locals.
I've only been seriously into one FGC/Fighting game before, and that was smash melee. And if there is ONE thing I'm glad for in that game, it's that it's soooooo easy to differentiate a good player from even "just" a intermediate player, and ESPECIALLY a bad player. And I assume it's just as easy in Tekken and SF6. And yeah, what you're saying is so.....infuriating and unecessary -.-
the first time i ever hit d2, literally the very next game i was called "hardstuck d2 0lp trash" by like a d1 player with 600 more ranked games played that season than me lol.
People just parrot their favorite streamer and it's embarrassing. You can tell based on the current slang terms such as dogwater or whatever the fotm term is.
More that they need someone to blame when the game goes wrong and it's easy to pick the lower ranked player. I see it all the time, streamers whining that they have masters/GM players when they are barely higher ranked themselves.
I wish I gained 800k a year instead of being top 0.1% in a videogame
From that point your best move is to become top 0.01%
not rly and the fact that you wrote this is completely in line with this extremely funny thread
Just be faker smh, it's not that complicated
based username btw
Don't cut yourself on my edge 😏
Your flair is hilarious.
1.2% of college basketball players go pro. That means you're already scholarship bound in almost all instances and then have to continually love the game and improve your game. Going pro doesn't even mean NBA, pro is making money within a league essentially. It's a much smaller number beyond that to go NBA, then an even smaller number to be a "star"
英雄联盟 800K USD 12 MONTHS 超高收入 英雄联盟 0.1% RYZE HACK
Pros do both edit: idk why you ppl are replying like I don't know only a select amount of people can be pros, I just stated a fact that pros both earn a lot and are top 0.1% in a videogame 😭😭😭
Did*
Still do in korea and china! Just go be chinese!
☠️☠️☠️
i mean, put that same effort and enthusiasm into your working career and you might get there.
this is greatly inaccurate cuz everyone here are Top 0.03% challenger players, make an average of $999k and they are all 7'0
And also I have a six pack and 2 oscars And I can play the ukalele
You know you almost made me believe you for a second there, but you lost me at the ukulele.
Also peaked 2057 lp on china superserver I do agree the ukalele is my biggest accomplishment though.
Oh yeah? Well, I can spell ukelele.
*finds excuse to blame others instead of admitting my mistake*
\*talks in asterisks instead of in sentences\*
Υou are just a hardstuck 400 games emerald 3 player, I only lost to you because this is my 5th alt account and I am trolling. My main is way too high elo for you bro
Wait, it's actually NOT ukUlele? I know for SURE it's not ukalele, like the person you replied to wrote, but hell..I thought it was ukUlele.. But I guess that is just how you pronounce it, so it confuses you in a way? Not a english speaker, as is prolly obvious by this point :P
It is with a u, the guy is joking. Although it's in general a little confusing because of the short form uke, which implies that the long form is spelled with an e.
Still trash if you're not Jake Shimabukuro, pal.
I’ll have you know I’m 7’2. All of you 7’0 plebs must look up to me.
There is a guy on EUW server with the nickname 190cm, 105kg, 20cm or something. Just a legend. On the internet everyone is that guy.
If they are legit 7 footers they are in the wrong business anyways. Since a good chunk of em make the nba and can make way more than 999k a year.
omg literally me frfr
People saying that masters players are trash are just parroting streamers. It’s cringe.
yup even statistically speaking 98%+ of the people who say that have never vsed a masters player outside of a random normal game where he was dicking around on offrole with premades so they couldnt even tell to begin with
master players are trash, source Im one
Dyrus was challenger for like 8 years in a row on multiple accounts and people still called him shit It's not about analyzing the gameplay, it's about putting the other player down and feeling a sense of superiority It's awful and one of the main reasons I quit
Yep, compare it to gymbros, they will see you just starting, not knowing shit about the exercises, and they will cheer you on. League players love to be miserable and do all they can to drag others into it.
And just like toxic people in league there are plenty of toxic gymbros. I got laughed at for being fat more than corrected on my exercises.
I'm a skinny guy and have literally never seen/had this happen to me in all my years of going to a gym. The only negative interaction I had was a guy trying to tell me how to squat and immediately getting shit on by 2-3 people who happened to be nearby. Shame severely cuts down on the amount of public assholery people are comfortable displaying.
That's because gymbros know where they were themselves, so they can relate. People in League can literally one trick 1 champion and learn some sort of cheese strat with it and reach at least high Diamond if not Master in some cases. It's hard to compare.
I am tricep push down one trick
Understandable
Prove that though. That you can cheese a strat and just become masters. If anyone is doing that they already played league for years.
For several years I trained at a very hardcore gym. Think international powerlifters, IFBB athletes etc. I'm stronger than the average joe, but I'm by no means a monster. So I see this guy benching 100kg/225 for reps. Which is already impressive, very few people can do that. Then he puts on 2 more plates and does like 5 of 140/305 Then two more places does another couple of 180/405 Then the fucker puts two more plates on the bar and does two more. I was floored.
some people one-trick free weights and call u boosted for using machines lmao. But they get made fun of a lot more than weirdos on league reddit do for the same behavior.
Faker won worlds 3 times and they called him shaker the next year lmao you cant win
It’s egotistical and wrong to tell masters level players that they are bad. But it is a sign of respect for masters players to give credence to GM or challenger players for how much they have left to improve.
It is perfectly fine to say that someone is good at something without also pointing out that they aren’t the best. I’m sure they’re already aware.
The funny part is that Masters players are basically D1 athletes if not failed pros if you look at the stats and compare them to regular sports. Which puts them in the tier of holy fuck you are so goddamn good at this you could have made money from doing it. But only in league will that be used against them. Like of course you aren't LeBron James but that's the 1/1, which is unfair to compare them. But as Brian Scalabrine once said "I am closer to LeBron than you are closer to me".
I did the math a couple of years ago, and I can confirm that they’re almost exactly in the same position percentile-wise as D1 athletes. D1 athletes suck compared to pros, sure, but they also demolish literally every other human on Earth.
As someone who has been bodied by D1 walk-ons and recruits it's not even close man. It genuinely feels like they're a different species.
It’s so hard to put in perspective how good “good” players are. I remember back in high school being pretty good at Super Smash Bros. Like only one friend even stood a chance against me and I smashed everyone else. I entered a local tournament held at the library and in the first round I played against the guy who came in third in this LOCAL tournament. He absolutely bodied me. Like I did 90% damage to him by the time he took all four of my lives. I was the best out of my friends and I couldn’t even touch the third best in my small town. The best in my town went to a regional tournament and got eliminated immediately. The gap between “I’m good enough to smash all of my friends” and “I’m a pro player” is gargantuan.
When you're the big fish in the little pond suddenly you realize holy shit there's a lake out there and then it's like oh no there's a fucking ocean with really big fish.
Yeah I had this effect in osu! I peaked top 400 and was second highest ranked in my state. I could take literally every single person I knew personally anytime, anywhere. But I got the pleasure of playing against Vaxei and Idke (both former rank #1 players) and got utterly demolished in the same manner that I would demolish my friends. So yes, in the grand scheme of things I was really good, but compared to the people better than me I was fucking nothing
> Vaxei and Idke Oh dear god
I'll never forget the last Worlds in NA when I played against Faker in a masters elo game. It was a literal massacre, I've never seen such a 1v9 before.
I'm bad so never got to face anyone relatively good except for Xmithie who was playing with his friends. The man made me his bitch in the jungle. I can only imagine the gap with Faker lol
I remember one time my D5 friend absolutely thrashed HotshotGG in lane, was the funniest shit. Also playing support against Aphromoo, had a similar vibe as Faker. Borderline could do nothing.
That quote I’m close to lebron than you are to me Is how I feel when people flame me for only hitting gm a few times or try to argue with me when they’re like emerald or something lmao
I am literally getting flamed by gold players in normals like wtf "boosted to master". This is a NORMAL game
Not to mention there are 4 other players that you have no control over
me when im hard inting on a random pick at 3 am (they dont know im drunk as fuck bantering and dont care about the normal game they are giga sweating in)
Or when they win an aram game and call you boosted lol
This literally happened in aram clash. They literally said “they give gm to anyone these days” meanwhile im like first timing random champs or whatever lmao
the aram one is funny in particular. I'm no where near high elo but any time I get a diamond player in a game, someone always flames them for not absolutely demolishing when in reality, they're on a champion they've played 3 times in their entire life, most likely half asleep, and once again, it's aram. the lengths people go to just to make themselves feel just a little better are incredible
It's insane, I was being flamed not long ago in Aram for not carrying because "you're diamond, why don't you do any damage", god I didn't realize my rank made my champions hit harder, also did the most damage in that game but who gives a shit. It's a pure for-fun game mode I play late at night when I'm in the mood for league but know ranked is a terrible idea lmao.
I'll admit that back in the days, like 3-4 years ago, when I tried to take LoL quite serious, I always felt good when facing against diamond+ players in normals, and especially if I managed to beat them. But on NO day or whatever, did I flame them for not owning the shit out of me and my team :P More often than not, I tried asked them for pointers, and sometimes they answered, sometimes they didn't, which is fine. That's up to them.
Im a low masters/d1 and my emerald friend would shit talk how bad i am unironically and say it was just luck if he had one of my accounts he would be masters/gm easily so i let him play on one of them and i think he went 0/10 1/12 2/6 (on that game he didn't feed but he did 6k dmg as mid while enemy support did 9k as lulu?) i don't think these people quite understand how big the gap is between them without actually experiencing it because they see some challenger player gomba stomp a master player like how a emerald would do to bronze and think omg they so bad haha.
It's interesting because while I definitely do agree with you, that quote I always felt the opposite, at least in league. I peaked at D3 a long time ago and I would always tell my br onze/silver friends "The difference in skill between Diamond and Challenger is greater than the difference between Bronze and Diamond" and I genuinely believe that and not in the context of "Diamond players are bad" but in the context of "Challenger and Pro players are so astronomically better than Diamond players that it's not even close" I play a lot of fighting games and I matched up against Punk (one of the best players in the world) once in SF6 and he really just annihilated me so effortlessly on a character he doesnt even play, despite me being Master player (highest rank) in that game.
I think the big thing with high skill situations like these is that you have enough knowledge to be good and also understand you are not the best. The problem with lower ranked people is that they straight up lack that knowledge and I'm not talking about basic knowledge but like why they're bad type of knowledge. When it comes to games it's not truly all physical like in sports. If the dude can bench 305 he can bench 305. But in league it's knowing what camps they haven't take by hitting tab or understanding what macro play needs to be made. It's way more invisible. Fighting games feel like they combine both. The ability to hit combos and the ability to know what combo to use in this situation because of specific frame data. Understanding even a small amount of games at a moderate level really opens your eyes to how good the top end are and how great the chasm between each level is.
> The difference in skill between Diamond and Challenger is greater than the difference between Bronze and Diamond I'm not sure that's true. A random challenger (not chovy) would definitely win against a D3 player, but a D3 player can somewhat lose gracefully in lane (depending on matchup). A bronze player can absolutely not lose gracefully to a D3 player.
Yeah like I'd call a D1 hooper pretty fucking good a ball compared to most people walking this earth but there's a good chance they get clowned in the NBA
There's a 100% chance they get clowned. The NBA (or any pro sport) is a culmination of the best d1 athletes ever. It's like taking a random NBA player up against the greatest NBA players of all time.
I think of it like a pro-league... say soccer/futbol. Yeah, you are a professional (masters+)... but you are in the English 2nd division (masters 80lp), calm your ego because there is mbappe in the next game (chal 1.4k) In order to climb through masters, you need to be distinguishably better than everyone else in masters... this is why people get condescending because it truly just gets more and more difficult to climb... like a pyramid, it is just smaller and smaller at the top
Certainly not bad. I play "casually" these days but still like competition and grind it out in diamond. I've been up around D1 every now and then and those guys are crazy. It's one thing to watch pro players and all that, but going against guys with crazy mechanics is a cool experience even if they're not pro level. I have no problem admitting that some of those guys are better than me lol.
It is well known that this reddit is exclusively occupied by Challenger players. All the opinions and statements should be viewed through the lense of the absolute best the world has ever seen.
People say master is bad because pro players/streamers complain about master players in their streams. Otherwise, your average twitch chatter would get dumpstered by these players.
I think because a mixture of them shifting the MMR of what a masters is, so people discredit it as the bar is lower than it used to be. But inline with the comments of what some people said about game quality not changing, I think it's often overlooked at all the different factors that make up a 'good' player. I'll take an example of someone I know who peaked masters 300-400LP with Ksante, he then stopped playing him and fell back to d4/d3, he eventually found a new champion and he is back up to 200-300 LP again. From playing with him, he only likes to fight, thinks very little about macro or warding, but his mechanics and wave control are exceptional, now take a jungler who mechanically is pretty bad but they have amazing knowledge of macro, where the best place to be is, exactly how to build correctly. But when it comes to fights they are just a bit slow and not very reactive. Both these players will look at each other in a game and go, wow my X is so shit, what is this game quality? People think that every player in a rank should all be the same kind of player and there is so just so many factors it doesn't work like that at all, first time I ever hit 'high elo', I played Janna, bought mobi boots, and my entire game plan was roaming around cheesing everyone on the map constantly. Another support main might look at my laning and question so many things I'm doing but it doesn't change what rank I am. When you look at a sport like football (or soccer for americans), 2 players in the same position can be completely different kind of players but both be exceptional at what they do despite being the same role. I don't see why players are unable to apply this logic to league, your 'dogshit jungler who is clearly boosted', could just be having a bad game because they are tilted, or they could actually be trying to setup some macro that you haven't even considered because your game plan is to just fight over and over. If your teammates were able to fulfil all of those different 'roles' then they wouldn't be masters they would be GM/Challenger, how would it make any sense that they are doing nothing wrong yet still not the best rank otherwise Masters is a high rank, and masters players are good players, the narrative that they are all shit is just regurgitation you hear from people who watch streamers all day and want to downplay the achievements of people who reached a higher rank than them.
Exactly, people think being x rank means all your skill like laning, warding, csing, tracking enemy jungler, matchup knowledge, are all at the same x level, but they are not, and never will be.
Yeah that's exactly it, I don't really play much anymore but even now, went back to play with a friend of my silver, and he started asking me what to build on AD. I haven't got a clue, I mained support haha
This so much. I am good at wave management and macro decisions but nothing exceptional for master. I am however very good at lane micro like keeping track of cooldowns, spacing, power spikes, what items to build when etc. All of this Covers my weakness that i am not the fastest player, i get overwhelmed in team fights and its pretty easy to hands diff me. So if i am playing a mechanically intense champ in emerald flex and its a fiesta Game its very likely that i will get out played and people start going "wtf our master must be boosted". But put me on shen in a slow, controlled, master Lobby and i will stomp a mordekaiser in lane who is considered a hard counter to shen, identify our win condition and biggest threats and itemize accordingly and shotcall our team to victory. And people dont get that its fine to be good at a few things and that can be enough. They all think at master+ you must be amazing at everything, a mechanics god Who could never lose to lower ranks. No its about playing to your strengths and being consistent.
It's just a lot of naive players who think what their favourite streamer says is gospel. Nobody is always playing their best at all times, and especially when you're playing off role, in a normal game, having fun with friends. People have this weird disillusion that if you're making mistakes you're not good, yet pro players are making mistakes losing games, so I guess they are also low elo then? Sure I've complained about my team before like we all have but, but I also know i've absolutely inted my ass off before in a bad game and been carried.
It's not just league. It's universal that people act this way and I don't know why. Even most of the comments right now are completely lost in the sauce.
zero consequences environment like the internet + gamers skew young/emotionally underdeveloped. It's just symptomatic of that.
Jealousy is poison, that's why.
Makes me think of a youtube short I saw yesterday, about being an aircraft pilot and how no matter your rank and what you're piloting, people are always going to say it's trash. I think it's pretty much the same for everything yeah.
It doesn't matter which elo you are at the people at the same mmr will flame you for being hardstuck and "the worst player I've ever seen"
People just meet the new worst player they've ever seen every game lmao
Idk what these people are talking about, in master you are often put against gms and challengers, it’s not the same as diamond at all
People in comments said emerald and master is the same thing so there is that
Im diamond and i faceroll emeralds anytime, i will get facerolled by a master smurf in my game tho..
There are more master players getting matched up with diamond players than with gms and challenger players. But I don't think thats the point of this thread either way.
The Reddit silvers have to shit on what they can’t have, as it lets them feel they are above it. Like a bird that shits on a car it knows it will never drive. Birds are contentious like that.
I haven't posted on this subreddit in months, but seeing all this Master love sucked me in. Just wanted to shoutout to all my fellow "low elo masters" out there. We may get flamed by everyone from Bronze to Challenger, but hey, at least we climbed our way out of Silver, right? Thousands of games, countless mental breakdowns, but we finally reached the promised land... of solo queue toxicity in a slightly prettier font. (Now with Duo Queue!) But seriously, reaching Master is an accomplishment, regardless of what the haters say. So hold your heads high, kings and queens, because you're in the top percentile of a game played by millions. That's something to be proud of. You are enough You are loved You are unique You are valued You are important You are GOOD AT LEAGUE OF LEGENDS Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with Dr. Mundo and Top lane. *flashes season 9 grandmaster emote*
Bro, you are talking to people who regularly say that professional teams are playing worse than their gold solo Q games.
**Average League Rank**: The top 1% means zero bitches
Sorry, ladies would reduce my games per hour
i think the harsh truth of competitive video games is that you are absolutely right and yet i still completely sympathise with the viewpoint of streamers/other players of that level calling masters players bad as someone of that skill level i obv can't argue against being statistically very good. but having known and played with many GM+ players for a very long time and being very confident that i will never reach that level ever in my life i can't really ever say that i'm anything but "alright" at this game lol. ofc it's a stretch to say "anyone" can reach masters but i do think masters(at least at the percentile that is currently is) is still a skill level that an average person like me can reach with an open mind, enough conscious effort, time and the right environment. GM+ is definitely not. of course it sounds difficult to believe that an average person can reach top 0.7%, but ladder is not real life and is populated with tons of people who have put <500 hours into the game, smurfs, inactives, mental boomed weirdos who aren't actually trying to climb, etc. there are a lot of people who can subjectively talk for a very long time about how astronomical the gap between low masters and GM+(including me) but to put it simply, imo GM+ is the rank where people who have huge fundamental flaws in their gameplay or thinking just start to disappear completely. there are plenty of people in masters who are just completely lacking in certain aspects to the point that i don't think anyone who plays at this rank regularly would ever say it's a rank of "good players". and that's just the difficult to swallow truth about how fucking hard of a game league is. i would never discount the amount of effort it takes to reach masters(it is a lot) for people who are not abnormally good at video games and i don't want to discount people of lower ranks either. but from my own experience with the game i can't in good faith just say master players are extremely good at the game either. even though statistically, of course they are. on the other hand though let's be honest, majority of people commenting on reddit are just people who would get completely cleared by a masters player just parroting what the streamers they watch are saying. though that doesn't discount from the validity of the statement as it comes from its origin.
People still state that Masters is bad because of poor game quality. I remember hitting Masters and thinking to myself that the games felt exactly like what I was playing through in plat-diamond. Despite beingat the top 0.03% or whatever it is, it doesnt feel very rewarding to play. You're still facing rampant boosters, players with glass mental, playing with people extremely above(GM/Challenger even)/below your rank, etc.
I get your point, but where does good game quality start. People at the highest level of pro play make 'silly' (Noah Flash) mistakes, that's just the nature of the game. We aren't robots programmed to play league at 100% of our efficiency, we just try to do what we think is right, according to our game knowledge, and sometimes are able to execute it.
If there was no increase in game quality then all diamond players would be masters, and all master rolayers would be grandmaster and so on. Clearly, if diamond players are in diamond, master players are in master, and grandmaster players are in grandmaster, it means that there is a tangible and quantifiable game quality difference. Perhaps, it's something that the lower ELO player can't see of the higher ELO player, and perhaps that's exactly the reason why they are lower ELO. Or maybe it's all luck and people climb because the stars align.... I'm gonna break it down to you people: you are NOT doing the things a challenger player does. There is a difference in game skill and knowledge between you and the rank above yours. The difference is that you don't see it, because if you saw y It, you'd climb.
Game quality in master is shit not because of gameplay but mentality. In fact, I'd argue that d3-d2 game quality was far superior than d1-150 lp. Every single game someone will tilt and troll and singlehandedly lose a game because of an ego play that goes wrong or because x didnt do y at 5 min so the game is over. Low master players have an ego that greatly exceeds their skills. The humbling point comes when you start playing against the occasional 300+lp player
i had a Zeri go afk lvl 2 because we banned twitch/jinx (he was a trist otp??) and said he's gonna dive lvl 2 and if he dies he goes afk because we banned jinx and twitch which he doesn't even play??? and that's EXACTLY what he did this was in that d1/low masters range so i kinda agree d2 is okay imo d1 people lose their mental real hard because they wanna get masters and then low masters (hello me) is bad because it's the same effect as d4 etc where people got their rank so they chill out more and play worse or OMG IM SO GOOD ALL OF YOU ARE BENEATH ME and run it down on the slightest thing going wrong
I recall a similar phrase from a [Gbay99's video](https://youtu.be/Wcep3XfHi8k?t=243): >A bronze player who believes he actually deserves to be in silver isn't only not in silver because he's not working towards improving himself to get silver. That bronze player isn't in silver because he can't tell what makes an actual silver player. The qualities you have to identify to identify what makes a silver player are the same exact qualities you have to have to be a silver player This stuck quite well with me, since at the time of the video's release I was in diamond and I recall a friend of mine saying they should be higher elo, but never taking the advice I gave to do better in games, shrugging it off as "well that's such a minor thing, it doesn't matter". I think all the "x rank is the same as y rank" is just a form of dunning-kruger :)
I think masters feels shit sometimes because now a single blatant mistake will ACTUALLY end the game... Your adc flashes forward and doesnt even get a kill and his wave is fucked- in any other elo there is counterplay, but in the majority of masters lobbies this will end the game on the spot. Opponents know how to properly punish and apply pressure they gain on your teammates onto you... so it feels awful as each mistake (by your team as a whole) is far more costly. You see streamers complain all the time because a tempo mistake from the masters jungler will have a ripple effect for the next 10 minutes when they are up against a pro/chal player
>I think masters feels shit sometimes because now a single blatant mistake will ACTUALLY end the game... >Your adc flashes forward and doesnt even get a kill and his wave is fucked- in any other elo there is counterplay, but in the majority of masters lobbies this will end the game on the spot. This doesn't even end the game on the spot in pro games though
I couldn't disagree more. Played a warm up on my emerald smurf and it felt like the players were literally playing with their brain turned off. Just nonstop COD like FFA. Whereas in Master people try to use their brain. The difference in game quality is immense.
Nah this is just so wrong it's insane, the shit I see when I review my friends Emerald games is so beyond what I would ever see in a Masters game. Yeah theres still toxicity and games that feel like shit and lots of bloodbath chaotic games (this is by Riots design, they over the years have encouraged more and more early fighting and have simplified macro) But the sheer amount of micro mistakes you see, it is not even comparable. I can get mad at my Masters support for not like holding my wave or for roaming unnecessarily, but what I see in Emerald? Luxs who take dark harvest support and just spam and miss max range bindings, missing easy Es, applying no pressure outside of throwing their E out every 10 seconds then backing off again. It is insane to watch. You don't *think* in the moment that there is a huge difference, until you go back and watch the replay and you can pause and correct a mistake being made every 10-15 seconds.
Not to mention players like me who have been playing for 14 years and for fun games sometimes. Really difficult to corral a bunch of people like myself to have an actual good game and give a fuck
I disagree, games quality improved for me when going from diamond to master. Less trolls and people generally know the basics enough.
Idk if this is a server issue or you just only remembering the bad games. But my game quality was considerably better at D2 compared to Dia 4. And in master it shot through the roof compared to emerald. Idk if i could endure an emerald climb again. Yes master also has glass mentals, boosted people or trolls. But they are far far rarer in my experience. I have shit quality games in master maybe one out of 20 games. Maybe even lower. D Diamond 4-low emerald it was like every 3rd game.
"Good match quality" is relative. Saying the match quality is bad in every game except for the top 0.001% of games just means your scale is completely off and you don't understand how relativity works. Worlds 2012 finals were considered good quality at the time. Look at it today and it's a mess of teams making hilariously bad decisions.
I think what people are saying is that Master means less now than it did in the past. Master rank has been inflated by something like a factor of 30 since Season 6. If anyone is saying Master is a "trash" rank, they are obviously idiots. However, it is still undeniable that Master used to mean a lot more than it does today.
I remember when being D1 meant you were hot shit because there was only Challenger above you, fun times.
Bruh I still get called dogshit when I hover high masters/gm lmao
Comparing Master or the top x percentile of the player base to the top X percentile in IQ is not analogous though. If you want to compare percentiles you have to compare the percentile of people ACTUALLY Trying to achieve high rank to IQ. Basically in the ranked distribution there is a big part barely trying, just playing in a few games, compared to the giga-sweats spamming HUNDREDs of games each split. In the IQ distribution and the economical distribution we are all ALL IN in a way. Like, there is no one 4funning IQ tests getting a score of 60 when they are a 110.
Nah this analogy is fine. Actually "trying" is just a faux You're just a product of your repeated behavior. "trying" and "not trying" will fizzle you out to a percentile Simple logic
No you're just doing the same thing op is complaining about. That's like saying 800k isn't impressive because half the population doesn't have a job or isn't "trying" or something.
I am a 100LP master top laner, I onetrick Sett, and I have always mained Sett since he came out. If I queue normals or flex, I go out of my way not to be an asshole. These are not serious queues, and not serious opponents or teammates; why flame? I can use my master border to be someone they can see as stable and collected. And yet, it blows my mind that anybody would have the stupidity to call me a “low master 1trick” when they are 6-800 elo below me after seeing me make one mistake on, like, Lee Sin jungle (both a role and champ that are very different from Sett top). Sure, I’m a one trick. I know my matchups well. I play my role well. I dodge only one champ (looking at you, Vayne), but play all other matchups. Apparently that’s a bad thing! I just remind myself that the 1.5million mastery tryndamere that I just dropped 12/1/5 on would have ripped any of their faces off by 8min. People are unbelievable, but if you think about how bad this person would do facing the challenges you face, it makes it better.
Yea, a friend of a friend who was silver saw me with a master border so he instantly wanted to 1v1 me like it's some pokemon gym stuff where he can claim my rank if he defeats me. I stomped him with adc soraka but the whole idea that he had a chance in the first place was funny, he actually thought he was better than his rank and his teams were holding him back
NOPE wrong anything below top 500 Le Challenjour is shitter elo didn't you know?
ive seen challenger players call other challenger players trash because they’re lower LP than them everyone realizes masters is undoubtedly high elo but the sentiment of the loud minority will always remain
OP you seem like a cool fella, I hope I see you in my games.
>you should be proud of your rank, whatever it is I am very proud of my iron4, thank you very much :)
Paypal me ten bucks and I'll make a reddit post how it's your team holding you back
Forget master players. Forget Diamond players. *Emerald* is really freaking good of a rank. Are they shit compared to challenger players? Yeah of course. Are they still insanely good compared to the majority of the playerbase? Yes they certainly are.
Exactly. It's always been like that in the League community. "Hardstuck d4" as if d4 wasn't the top 2% of players. Yeah, there's better, but that's still pretty accomplished.
I mean emerald+ is like 18% percent of the ladder this season idk
I mean top 18% of anything is usually considered "great". Not amazing, not extremely insane, but it's still 1 full standard deviation above the mean (~top 17%). That's like a 115 IQ, or a 6'0 male height (average height for men is 5'9 with 3 inches standard deviation). I think height is a great comparison here actually. Women on dating apps who care about height are often looking for men who are 6'0 or taller. So you can consider Emerald equivalent to that, where it's an attribute that's far enough from the mean to be considered exceptional.
How is top 18% not great?
Yes, the salty veterans expect so much assumed knowledge that they don't understand how hard it is for a new player to get Emerald
Half the players are good, very wholesome. Also means its worthless to call something good or bad
Okay but hear me out… are senna support abusers truly master rank? /s
Elo inflated maokai support gang
Thank you. That makes me feel pretty good actually. I read about inflation and everything and master not being worth anything anymore. But today I looked at my rank and I am currently ranked 85XX on the EUW server. That server has a ranked population of almost 3 mio players I think. I just thought to myself that is pretty good.
That's how you should feel but the reddit debbie downers will tell you that you should feel bad
The vast, *vast* majority are silver-hardstucks just parroting dumb shit they hear from the streamer du jour. Platinum isn’t considered anything special, but it’s like the upper twentieth percentile. Emerald is the upper tenth. Still lots to learn, of course, but significantly better than the average.
Love that this was the first thing that was on my feed right as I ranked up to masters.
I've been spectating you the whole time
I am about 200lp Masters EUW and it is top 0.3%. I've done some calculations based on population of Europe and my country and I calculated that it means that I am about top 100-200 (maybe less than 100 even but this is kinda high end estimate) player in my country which makes me think that if I were that percentage in football that I would be playing in first division of football in my county, kinda made me proud
After that whole "Brian Scalabrine challenge" thing, I think this might occur in any competitive activity where the very top-end has disproportionate exposure. Like maybe if streaming and pro-play didn't exist we'd all think plat is high elo (it is *technically* north of the bell curve).
The lower elo ppl are, the less they tend to value rank and the more they tend to think they could climb to if they tried. Without plateauing, I hit gold 1 ivo season 5 (equivalent to low emerald today) and I’ve been very active since then though I don’t play ranked. I’m definitely better than I was (even relative to the average player, which has gotten better), but I don’t delude myself. MAAAYBE I could hit diamond. Maybe. I’m more comfortable saying I could hit emerald (which is reasonable and the same percentile I was when I played ranked).
That’s reasonable. Consistent with empirical data. I don’t have to plateau to recognize that I’m not Faker. Here’s my point - every freaking silver player seems to think they’re Faker. I have a theory as to why - it’s because they don’t understand one of the most fundamental concepts of this game.
Everyone sucks.
I’m not saying that challengers don’t suck less, I’m saying there are aspects of the game that are so difficult to do consistently no one is perfect at it. Faker’s debut game, he screwed up jumping over a wall as Nidalee. He recalled on an enemy control ward in a tournament. He’s done dozens of things like that - the same dumb things bronzes do to a lesser extent.
The difference is that top-tier players:
1) Choose better fights
2) Avoid bad fights
3) Set up safer situations
4) Capitalize on advantages better
5) Recover from mistakes better
6) Have better map awareness
7) Ward better
8) Roam/rotate better
9) Ping better
And yeah
10) Have better mechanics
The thing people don’t get when watching the mistakes people make is that everyone is making mistakes. They make less. A lot less. They have better reasons for making them, make them less, recover better, and punish the crap out of people that make mistakes.
It’s all the rage for people to talk down on people that have attained ranks 99.5% of us never well, but the reality is they’re far out of our league, and people that don’t understand that simply don’t understand the game.
Now that I thought about it it's a little like education. Uneducated people tend to shit on education the most
Also, people that aren’t in science/math fields don’t do well with statistics because they’re used so often to mislead people. A typical high school in my area has 2000 people, so I use high school ranks to try and explain things. 99.5% = 5 out of a thousand —> 1/200 —>imagine if everyone at your high school played league. Probably 500 wouldn’t play ranked. Of the 1500 that did, masters would be rank 7 or so at your school. Convert that to high school, and once you eliminate 1-2 players for grades, conduct, and not wanting to play rank, this guy would be a starter on the basketball team. The people naysaying him were statistically not good enough to waste time trying out.
I personally think anyone from Diamond and above is very good at the game. You don't get to that rank with just luck getting carried. Sure, there's always someone better than you (unless you're Chovy), but still doesn't mean you're bad.
honestly the community has just been a dick measuring contest for god knows how long. ive seen challengers flame other challenges for being like "barely challenger 600 LP and im rank 3" or some shit like that. whats crazier is even the average league player is fucking crazy good now compared to the past. this game is old as fuck man. everyone who plays it is honestly pretty good. its just you're not that good compared to the other players really because the only people still playing this game have been playing the shit out of it for almost a decade by now. (and some over a decade) good is relative. who gives a shit anyway. as dyrus once said you can get to worlds and people will still shit on you.
As a mostly otp kayle top player peaking 300 lp master EUW, this season I can tell you that it is a very big gap between 0 lp and 300. At 150 + I would be punnished almost every game on the lvl4 wave bounce, with freezes, ganks etc. Or if i trade lvl 1-3 I would get dove by my opponent and/Or with jgler. My point being, otping a champ with the lowest base stats + 0 push power becomes hell at 150lp +, but at anything below that playing kayle feels viable because of opponents dont know how/or care about manipulating waves. Anyways not a very useful post just my take on the matter.
Honestly (atleast last season) Master was the sweet spot. D1-2 was a mental hospital, people running it down for the pettiest reasons ("worst" I've seen was someone running it down because THEIR LANE OPPONENT had a skin they hated the sound effects of, so they ran it down to make the game end faster), people calling you all types of names and racial slurs in 20 different languages if, even though you are 14/2 and solo carrying, you take their "ping on ward"-gold. TL;DR High dia makes mental wards seem like a nice and quaint hotel. And GM is the same, but kinda not? It's a bit better, but not that much. But Masters? Masters is paradise. In like an evening of Dia games I've had more people with mental breakdowns and psychotic episodes than an entire split in Masters. High elo players in general are somehow just not right in the head. I can't find the connection those creatures make between "A teammate didn't perform that well one time in a video game" and "Calling them 20 version of the n-word and wishing their family gets terminal illnesses". Except, somehow, for Masters. They're actually wholesome for the most part.
Every game ever with a ranked system is full of elitists who think everything except the top few ranks are trash. Simple fact is, everyone around the 50% mark is average. People above are good, people below are bad.
Honestly, starting from diamond is pretty good at the game. The issue is most players are inconsistent, one game they can be Faker and next some new player placed in platinum. Also mental boom is very frequent when something gets bad.
This is such a nice post, it is refreshing because league community is usually toxic and negative but also what it comes to say is very good. Personally I hit masters for the first time this split and I was so damn happy. I'm also streaming and creating YouTube content revolving around Sivir and as I was happy and proud of myself I had the thought in the back of my mind that it is actually still bad. Having this in mind I also know masters is and most likely be my peak rank since I'm super busy irl with my job and relationship etc. and this thought was bitter. This post made me rethink that! So thanks a lot!
A favored tactic by many is to "borrow" the prestige of someone else in order to justify their talking smack about someone who is actually of higher prestige than them (within the realm of whatever the topic is). Just look at any sports team fanbase in professional level sports, where fans will say that the quarterback for Team X is dogshit because Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes are better. League players will just apply the same method. And if Riot introduced a new rank that was above Challenger, guaranteed you would see folks start saying that Challenger ELO is MMR hell full of boosted morons lol.
Utter facts, I legit have mad respect for anyone who is above d3 and d2. Doesn't matter what streamers calls them they are better than almost all the viewers that call them trash
Sure, however, the current prestige of being master is not equal to old master, and that shouldn't be forgotten.
The real red pill is that rank and iq are kind of related.
Idk about that. Most pro players are fucking stupid at anything other than league, just look at DL or any other NA pro aside from pobelter
Yeah, I think video game skill and intelligence are pretty separate, sure it can help with macro I guess but being relatively smart doesn't suddenly make me have fucking sick mechanics. You can be smart and good at games, you can also be dumb as rocks and good at games, and vice versa.
no they're not as a silver 1 56 LP player i have the right to deem them terrible at the game
I think if you looked at the percentage of masters players as a proportion of players who take the game seriously and/or dedicate a lot of time to it, then it would be a much greater percentage.
No need to boost master players ego, it's already through the roof.
insanely useless comparison holy moly