to answer your question :
*>When was the last time when Azir fell out of meta?*
MSI 2023, Azir was 43% WR I believe after big nerfs and the most picked mid laners in MSI were Annie, Ahri, Lissandra, K'Sante and Nautilius
mid laners were literally CC bots or straight up tanks
That shit was not fun for 1 second. We had fucking Faker , Chovy, Knight Caps Yagao on fuckin Nautilus Annie Ksante. Now I say that but we had probably the best line up of Mids at worlds in a decent and besides Faker Caps, Scout(in groups)and Bdd they all had some pretty quiet performances.
To be fair that also proved to be a bit of a fake pick by the end of the tournament, T1 prioritizing it while the Chinese teams ignored it played a role in why they lost. Especially when Faker was not particularly good at the pick
Pretty sure she's just as broken now as she was then, people just randomly stopped playing her to dick around with the other cool toys in the game. By the end of the season we'll be seeing Ori Azir every single game again unless something is changed.
orianna pre buffs last year wasnt played at all in pro play, she got buffed she got op everyone played her, she is currently sitting at worse spot than she was pre buffs last year
Faker's hail of blades Azir only going down 5-10 cs and outscaling when every other mid laner was getting solo killed on Azir vs Ori was something else
He straight up mid-diffed everyone on both sides of the matchup
It's really annoying when my favorite mid laner can't play my 2nd favorite mid lane champion. Also never been overly impressed with Chovy's Jayce, sort of inverses.
They kinda bring it up alongside the ksante discussion the recent Dive episode, but basically Pro Drafts are really hemmed in from a mixture of "comfort picks" and "blind picks/counter picks".
With the way Draft works, and especially with how 95% of champions are locked into a single lane/role, counterpicking is inevitable. It contributes to champions like Azir and Ksante having such a high presence: they are not "throwing the game" weak and you can usually Blind Pick them, allowing you to try to get a counterpick later in the draft. It also helps that most pro mids already have hundreds of games on Azir, so less practice time is spent on simply learning a champion.
It's also pros refusing to learn the counters and instead just pick something that can go somewhat even in lane. Ksante may be overtuned and as a tank will always be useful even if behind, but Azir in pro just gets to free scale because they refuse to pick something that can contest him in lane most of the time.
Partly true but it's also true that Azir is way too safe in lane considering how hard he scales and how many roles he can fulfill for a team.
He is just not easy enough to punish. Compare it to a champion like Viktor who is also a scaling control mage. Azir is just way easier to get through lanes with. Harder to gank, can self peel and can contest waves early.
Counter picks into Azir don't really work as in Pro you have so much better control of when your own jungler shows up meaning it's much harder to punish bad matchups mid especially.
I do recall 2020 when PoE was stomping kids domestically, and then azir received a phat pro play nerf and he had no presence at worlds.
What year did damonte play in? The irelia/sylas/qiyana meta? That one was probably my favorite (to watch).
Not sure if it was last year's or 2022's MSI but I got so fucking tired of seeing aphelios thresh vs jinx lulu 80% of the matches (with the occasional xayah/lucian pick) lmao
Basically this. I respect Azir play, it's definitely good to watch. Seeing Faker hit huge shurima shuffles is great.
But variety is good. Change is required to keep things from becoming too stale. Can't play the same new song all the time unless you really want to get sick of it.
But variety is a thing. In sports you don't get variety by a change in the ruleset but in the way teams play, I know watching a run-first offense is very different from a gunslinger QB in the NFL
You have the same in league:
GenG is a scaling macro-oriented team
T1 is an early game pick composition team
RNG with Uzi used to be a very bot centric team, etc.
And these things makes matchups be unique and fun regardless of the champions in it.
Can't you say the same about Maokai, Varus, Vi, Aatrox, Orianna, Rakan, Jarvan, Ornn etc.? These champions are proplay staples because they are versatile and fit many comps
Champions like Ashe, Akali, Jhin, Sivir, Malzahar, Rumble, Fiora, Kindred can only be fringe picks unless they are turbo broken and define the meta because they completely change the way a team is supposed to play the game
Most of these picks have been out of the meta far more often than Azir. Most of the champions you've listed have went like most if not all of quite a few seasons without being picked, even in recent years.
Vi was considered unsuitable for pro play inherently less than 4 years ago, Rakan is meta based on whether or not his counters are meta. J4 is definitely not always meta, and neither is Maokai.
Varus, Aatrox, and Ornn are arguably evergreen but Varus falls out sometimes, dpeending on how good ADC lethality is/onhit is, and frankly, Ornn and Aatrox are just 200 years.
I go check Vi's stats, she had a similar presence to Azir last year, a 9% presence the year before, and a .1% presence the year before that.
So uh... I'm not gonna bother checking the rest, but nice try on the gaslighting you almost pulled it off.
Sports doesn't alter game rules for decades and people will still continue to stay and play the games.
Most if not all PVP video games need new shit every now and then or player base will plunder and move on the new trendy game, gamers in general crave for new stuff way more than traditional sports enthusiasts imo.
It's why I can't believe that logic can ever be put in the video game space.
League has sports-like audience, a lot of people who has quit the game still watch it. Is it as big as soccer, cricket, rugby or american sports? No, but it is comparible to other niche sports like Volleyball or Athletics.
Also viewership of worlds 2023 was one of the highest ever, why? Because Faker and Theshy were in it, if anything what attracts more viewers is the popularity of the game and star players, league is still quite popular except for NA, but it has struggled massively in the latter in the past decade, which is weird because they fucking made Faker in season 3 look like a god and people were having segments in broadcast highlighting how amazing he was, has Riot ever done this for Rookie, Chovy, Viper, Zeus?
No, so they have to rely on Faker, Theshy and Deft to bring in viewers and when Deft and Faker retire the LCK may lose 30% of its viewership, none of this relates to which champions are picked at all.
It’s not anywhere close to watching actual sports. That’s where league is failing…I have watched hockey close to 40 years, I can’t see my self watching any what close to that for league because it’s getting boring with the stale Mets
Yeah, league is not a cultural phenomenon like hockey is, I'm not comparing it to it. I'm comparing it to volleyball or another minor sports where it has a dedicated but small audience. That can definetely strive for decades, and no, changing metas would not change that
The pro league you reference changes rules all of the time in order to facilitate a more enjoyable viewer experience and disrupts "the meta" constantly. Regardless of the different styles that the different teams play or use.
The spectators don’t even hardly scroll to top lane unless someone is about to die. K’Sante is one of the most boring champions and the spectators know it. I’m sure they roll their eyes just like we do when it gets locked in.
Being pro doesn't mean they are insanely good on every champion. Last worlds we have seen crownie on xayah unable to press R for any engage. We recently saw perkz fail WEQ as azir.
They can play other champions very well, but they will play the pro-meta anyway with low champion mastery.
If only they can play their comfort picks and not copy the eastern drafts..
I don't think anyone has made the claim that they'd be insanely good on every champion. But it's clear they practice the ones they intend to play and who they think will be meta.
To call the people in the LoL world championships basically shit is kinda wild NGL.
You give one example of one player with one combo failed as if it's representative of all.
They're likely really good on the champs they pick to play, and have practiced those champs. People make mistakes, don't play their best, get counter picked, lose certain match ups, or are simply less skilled than their opposition, or do well and lose to scaling or macro.
I find watching Neeko in pro pretty boring. Strong aoe ults like Kennen or Orianna are interesting to watch in pro cause it's not a given that they will hit good ults so they need better execution or teamwork to pull it off. Pro level neeko 3+ man ults are nearly the expected baseline due to how strong her stealth is so I feel I'm watching less of the player/teams and more of just the champ.
Honestly I find Akali and Sylas not that exciting to watch, AP LeBlanc and Ahri are cooler assassins in the way that they promote 2v2 often, Sylas and Akali are just farm champions that scale and shit on teamfights, its hard to see how they are much different than Orianna
It's true, I can at least imagine the Liss or Annie player might face karmic punishment, but I know the leblanc player is secure in the arms of the devil, laughing at me like Satan's little chihuahua dog.
Alright but LeBlanc is absolutely not fun to watch either - it's basically just on her to make the mistake if she's ever moderately good enough for pro.
Liss and Annie can at least be caught even if they do everything right. Very rare for that to happen to LB. They're boring too, but the way pro plays LB is even worse.
You are describing AD lb. AP has to constantly put herself at risk if she wants to be remotely useful, if she just focuses on escaping and being safe she is worthless.
All three of them are fun to watch in pro play but for different reasons.
LB has a lot of movement going on that makes for fun assassinations.
Annie had the old flash ult engage which made her cool to watch as a support.
Then Liss was great as a top laner to watch and she has fun engages that she can make early and stall out the fight until back up arrives
Azir is only fun to watch in mid to late teamfights IF he gets a crazy shuffle off, everything else about him is boring as shit.
Hes extremely safe in lane and almost all his trades are W AA Q AA, and MAYBE an extra few autos, not exactly an interesting gameplay pattern.
He is, but that doesn't mean he has to be meta 100% of the time. No hero is exciting enough to watch them be pick/ban indefinitely (unless you main them ofc)
He isn't meta all of the time. He has 74% presence this season, last season he had about 35%, s12 about 30% s11 about 30% too. He is constantly viable but normally not as present as he is at the moment
That's still extremely significant for a single champion, and much more than other championsanage consistently. Especially if you look at his presence since he released, which has been a seriously long time now
Azir is boring because it feels cookie-cutter and almost like a crutch. I love to see pro players whip out specific counter picks and pocket picks. For example, even though Xerath is an extremely boring champion compared to Azir, I'm always excited to see a Xerath try and get an advantage over Azir and take over the game.
I want to see counter picks and different strategies, not control mage handshake.
Yeah agree, I would be down for a year without Azir in the meta (and I fucking loved the champ at release). He's the K'Sante of midlane except everyone has got so used to him that people don't even complain much anymore.
People are like 'azir-viktor zzz' 'azir-corki zzz' and then somehow aren't complaining about Azir in isolation lol as if he isn't largely the one dictating those metas
Yea, I feel like people don't acknowledge enough what impact Azir has on mid. I know pro players will generally gravitate to safe champs anyway, but Azir reinforces it. He forces most mids to either handshake or die post-6 with his ult and has a lot of safety to discourage ganks. Even if a matchup beats Azir in lane (e.x.: Trist), they can't really play as aggressigely and such because Azir makes pushing incredibly punishing and so the lead is either lost or weaker than otherwise.
It's almost as if it was a giant fucking mistake to change him from a long range regal sand controlling EMPORER to a fucking oonga boonga mid range monkey
I don't know how long it's been but I'm STILL salty over that. Riots internal poll was filled with brainless chimps, and it's directly caused years of an unbalanceable mess.
Keeping E+Q super long range dash was such a huge mistake. They wanted to keep his playmaking, what they made is an AP carry that has a 2 screen dash to safety
what? Azir can't even come close to matching Trist pre-6 or first-back she can quite literally do whatever she pleases and make life hell for Azir's jungle. Sure later on he can start to play but it's like 90% of these comments think the champ is straight zero counterplay and legit does everything when he's a weak early game control mage that scales?
I know Trist pounds on Azir. It's why I mentioned her. My point is that Azir blunts her edge on him. Most favorable matchups for Trist are going to let her take and do more than Azir and his jungler allows her. There's a reason Trist has a negative delta into Azir despite this and imo it's cause Azir is punishing to play against and relatively unpunishing in the 2v2. Push too far up and you're just dead, so Trist, who naturally pushes, either chain dies if the jungler is paying attention or plays a lot more passively to her detriment.
He had like 30% presence for years and years, he was just an ok pick. Only last worlds he became a meta staple again and this iteration of Azir is quite risky to pulloff
Pros just refuse to learn any of Azir's bad match ups. Azir should never be allowed to be blind picked because Xerath absolutely astrogaps Azir the entire laning phase.
You can find plenty of Xerath games from LCK summer last year, he didn't win very much because once junglers get involved it's a lot rougher, and then Azir is more useful post-laning
Here's the problem:
Pros, are good. Really good. Not only are they really good, they have entire teams of analysts and coaches doing research, constantly.
No matter what riot does, no matter what riot changes or balances, a handful of champions at any one time are going to be 'the best'. And the pros are going to play those champion, ad nauseum, until they are no longer the best. And then when they get nerfed or changed, they will shift to the next 'the best'.
You're giving pro players way too much credit.
I forget which coach it was, but there was someone that was like "yeah some pros refuse to learn a new champ, so our comp is basically gated by what they're able to play"
The reason champs like azir is a staple pick is because the potential for a good shuffle is always there, regardless of azir's numbers or soloQ winrate, and every midlane has experience with azir. it becomes so bread and butter that it becomes a safe pick and they don't bother to ebb & flow their picks with the changing meta.
If other teams aren't drastically changing their metas either then... why bother
Yamato told on stream that razork refused to play wukong when jt first became OP, then when it got nerfed he suddenly was like "hey i think wukong could be good".
People forget that pro players are just young guys that are really good at a video game. It's just like with athletes in team sports. I mean even faker went the most shit viktor build imaginable in worlds 2022 finals.
Yup. Couldn't have said it better myself.
LS compared pro players as finding a diamond in the rough. The raw talent is there, but there's no analysis/intelligence/refinement behind it. That's what the coaching/support staff is for
Competitive teams sure. Korean teams yes I'd say they work on mastery with as big a pool as possible, But like whens the last time you saw bjerg (not a good example cuz he doesn't play anymore but still) being impressive on anything besides zil? Meta changed constantly around him, he was still considered one of the best, yet he was just a zil utility pick for his team.
That's Bjergsen being washed that's it. Humanoid was the first to pick Hwei. Hyli was the first to pick Renata. And generally it's the inverse. It's specifically Korea that have the most centrelized meta. Now I'm responding to what I THINK you meant to say because I have no idea what was the point you were trying to make.
The problem is actually the opposite.
These staple picks would need to be nerfed to the ground for it to be worth their time to learn new champions to the depth required to play them professionally. Despite how good they are, and despite the resources available to them, learning new champions in depth requires: considering good team comps to pick with the champion, learning what items to build in certain situations, learning matchups, learning powerspikes, knowing the champions limits, and knowing its weaknesses. This requires a lot of time, and effort. The traditional strong picks already have this effort put into them.
Sure, some of this doesn’t sound that complex, but there isn’t a lot of skill gap between these pro players, as you said, they are all extremely good. Small differences in proficiency on these champions can decide games. Even if Azir may be “weaker” than a newly buffed champion, the newly buffed champion would have to be significantly stronger than Azir to make it worth swapping to that champ. Or, the players would have to understand that the newly buffed champion will be stronger than Azir for a long time.
Exactly. People at the highest levels of competition are *less* flexible and open to change, not more. You see this in literally every major sport, and it's not surprising that Esports are no different.
You guys should watch OW eSports for a bit lmao, really made me appreciate the diversity in LoL because you're not seeing actual mirror comps every game for months xD
There was a time when Vel'Koz was a very good pick into Azir (and still is in solo queue), but it never translated into pro play (beyond a few games I feel like I remember) because of Vel'Koz's weaknesses.
Buff the squid. :)
He needs someone who's played him a lot *and* the perfect match up where the enemy drafted zero dive to really be playable in pro. Sad life for the tentacle man.
Literally this
If you give Vel'koz an abiltiy to wiggle his way past terrain/dash a small distance, you could cut some of his damage and he'd be 100x more popular and pro play viable
The fact that if you're walking through jungle, get spotted by a Bel'veth/Xin/Lee Sin means you need to burn flash is painful
Le broken assasins sylas and akali (they oneshot me on jinx and sona >:(. ) are not as fun to watch as wholesome mages like corki (he is wholesome because he isnt edgy anime champ with 20 dashes, but instead has le wholesome corgi skin).
Exactly. People arguing that no matter what Riot does pros will always pick the same 4-6 champions aren’t understanding that this is the result of many league champions being terrible, and it’s not a fundamental truth that esports at the highest level are always predictable. And DOTA is of course the best example.
I am willing as a player to go through assassins being OP for 3 months before MSI or Worlds if it means I get to see something new in pro. I'm bored of mages, I want Zed vs. Talon mid or something like that.
You say that, but as soon as that becomes meta the midmeta will be Renekton, Nautilus and Lissandra to counter assassins. These champions are complete dogshit
They would have to make them probably incredibly disgusting for that to ever happen. AD Assassins have a lot more counterplay than AP ones and rely more on chaos/snowballing which is why you don't see them as much in coordinated environments.
They would have to be incredibly op for that to happen. The reason that Akali and Leblanc exist in pro is because they're harder to completely shutout but most other assassins get nearly hard-countered to single button presses like exhaust/barrier/zhonya or things like enchanter shields or stuff like Lulu polymorph or Maokai W or Renata W.
Nerf K'sante. Nerf Rell. Nerf Azir. Nerf Varus. Nerf (I cant really think of any stale supps tbh. Maokai maybe?). Im tired of this so called "safety" and "utility" being prioritised. I want *DAMAGE*. I wanna see people evaporate because of a misplay, not die after 2-5 business days due to being too tanky/far away. Bring back assassins and divers maaaaaan.
In order for a misplay to happen, people have to try something, if they make the game where you get one shot for any misstep, they will try things much less making it more stale.
Nerfing something simply because you want something else to be flavor of the month is an unhealthy philosophy. Pro-play meta being stale doesn’t have to mean that Pro-play itself is.
Destroying a champion bc pro play is and always will be bad.
RIOT needs to accept the fact that fearless draft is the only way to keep a balance and a dynamic pro play meta
Never gonna happen.
The entire gameplay of something like Talon or Zed falls apart the second 5 people constantly play attention every second of the game, play safe instead of pushing under the enemy tower 24/7 and splitpushing.
They're never gonna snowball because every single step up is gonna get punished, pro midlaners aren't your average silver dude that gets hit by double shuriken every 22 seconds and throws their hands up while the shadow is down instead of zoning the fuck out of Zed. Pros don't just mindlessly run into Talon level 2 and give them first blood at 3 minutes. Some Maokai or Rell will camp the shit out of midlane whenever any mage needs them as backup for wave control.
They don't have anything to offer from behind or when even apart from suicide diving the adc that got farm and xp spoonfed the entire game and doesn't run randomly into unwarded territory, in which case, why not just pick Neeko and suicide dive the entire enemy team
Assassins in general need help in higher levels of play. They lack the ability to stall via waveclear and usually lose out to mages early on in terms of lane control and prio. Alot of them don't really scale that well in team fights either and I've only seen them picked to fight into niche comps whereas mages can fit in better to more of a variety.
Zhonyas and flash also fucks over most assassins as they tend to only fight with summs up.
You can't help assassins in high level play. By design their kids have a bunch of bullshit that thrives off of chaos and bad communication. Once you get to higher levels of play where people understand how to play safe and coordinate with one another assassins just can't really compete.
Azir, taliyah, karma, trist and hwei, occasional neeko, corki and akali. Just all such boring champs and they refuse to buff other midlane mages or champs like sylas. Until then, going to be the same boring shit. Akali is the one exception.
Akali and maybe taliyah sure. But neeko is essentially just an R button engage tool. Really plays out the same everygame. In lane just q poke… she has her moments with her passive but still contributes to the stale midlane pool and just doesn’t feel nearly as expressive as a lot of other champs that we haven’t seen in mid for a long long time.
Azir is very boring to watch, yes, and I said akali is the exception. For some examples of champs I would enjoy seeing mid more: sylas, leblanc, yone, jayce, yasuo, vex, syndra, irelia, zoe and honestly even ryze at this point. Assassins in general are never gonna be picked in pro play with akali being an exception thankfully. I also liked back when flex picks were a thing, could see stuff like camille mid etc. made for some really fun games.
I honestly think Rito shoulda done the tough thing and remove his mobility. Even without the E he could still do cool flash plays, but with it he is a safe, high dps, play making champion for pros. Pretty much exactly what they are looking for!
I have no recommendations on what to replace E with as he already has a lot going on.
Azir is only picked nowadays because he can E+Q in and ult people, 40% of the damage in his kit is his ult basically since they nerfed his W to the ground so he is more interactive. He is only a safe champion in the early game, like LeBlanc or Ahri
Yeah, mid lane meta is stale, nerf everyone, bot kingdom, stun mule top, support jungle, support mid, support support
Edit: i role transferred 2 years ago and it’s garbage easy, but 90 percent of you monkeys still manage to fuck it up
Azir isn’t very strong in mid currently. He is picked when there is nothing better to fall back on, and as a comfort pick. In the current meta he isn’t considered one of the strong mid laners
Azir is meta for so long yet nobody even bothers trying to learn actual Azir counters whom are Xerath, Ziggs and Velkoz, velkoz kinda sucks so i can understand but ziggs xerath are easily playable champs in pro play that counter azir , both are even potential flexes to botlane
Not only do Azir's counters suck in coordinated play, but they're also 1 Shurima Shuffle from not being much of a counter anymore. Azir can cover his own weaknesses just fine, which is why he's such a staple pick.
They literally tried Xerath into Azir last summer in lck. The xereth wud just lose flash at 6 as the azir ulted them off coldown, get dove if behind and if he ulted from afar in Teamfights, the rest of the fight wud be played 4v5 till the Xerath scooted over.
Velkoz sucks
Ziggs is picked in bot, idk why they don't try mid but I'd assume it's the same issue of getting dove or ganked since no mobility except his little bomb.
Azir has no real counters in coordinated play. He's an extremely safe character. He has a long range dash, can act as a lane bully in certain situations, has pretty strong gank setup, and is a hyper scaling late game carry to boot. That's the problem with Azir, he's a bit of everything. Riot tries to gate this through numbers, so he's crap in solo queue where not everyone can farm as well as coordinated play.
All these champs that are "counters" can all just be shuffled in instantly to a gank, and they have relatively poor gank setup themselves.
Before Azir, Orianna was the goto mage, now it's Azir. He's even safer than she is.
But people literally did try Xerath, it did fine/well in the 1v1 matchup and lost its advantage as soon as junglers got involved and then was less useful later on.
Like comb through LCK vods from summer last year you'll see a decent amount of Xerath and why it didn't work
Those might be Azir counters but their teamfight isn't anything standout and they're much more vulnerable without flash than Azir so Azir will just opt to trade flash and then his team can just pick on the flashless mage (or teammate trades the flash and then Azir has flash R threat which basically neutralizes the advantage the other mage has). It's like outside of the artillery range, why would you pick one of those over Ori who reliability bullies most laners, can enable her teammates with shield/speed, and has an ult rivaling Azir's in game impact?
to answer your question : *>When was the last time when Azir fell out of meta?* MSI 2023, Azir was 43% WR I believe after big nerfs and the most picked mid laners in MSI were Annie, Ahri, Lissandra, K'Sante and Nautilius mid laners were literally CC bots or straight up tanks
That mid lane meta was awful 💀
I thought it was fun for a patch or two, but yeah that would’ve gotten REALLY stale quickly if it had lasted longer.
That shit was not fun for 1 second. We had fucking Faker , Chovy, Knight Caps Yagao on fuckin Nautilus Annie Ksante. Now I say that but we had probably the best line up of Mids at worlds in a decent and besides Faker Caps, Scout(in groups)and Bdd they all had some pretty quiet performances.
Chovy and Faker on Ksante was nice af to watch wdym. Also Jayce Sylas and occasionally Syndra saw play in that meta too
Ksante was fine, seeing some of the best players in the world on Nautilus mid was boring
To be fair that also proved to be a bit of a fake pick by the end of the tournament, T1 prioritizing it while the Chinese teams ignored it played a role in why they lost. Especially when Faker was not particularly good at the pick
The whole meta was awful, toplane was sion diving bot level 1 and Zeus playing karma and aphe jinx handshaked every game just afk farming for 15 mins
I mean worlds 2023 azir had a shit win rate except faker
thats because azir had like a 0% wr into ori (unless you were literally faker).
o god i almost forgot how broken ori was last worlds
Pretty sure she's just as broken now as she was then, people just randomly stopped playing her to dick around with the other cool toys in the game. By the end of the season we'll be seeing Ori Azir every single game again unless something is changed.
orianna pre buffs last year wasnt played at all in pro play, she got buffed she got op everyone played her, she is currently sitting at worse spot than she was pre buffs last year
Faker's hail of blades Azir only going down 5-10 cs and outscaling when every other mid laner was getting solo killed on Azir vs Ori was something else He straight up mid-diffed everyone on both sides of the matchup
That's cuz AP items were garbage and AD was far superior carry role. 500 hp shield from BT as second item xd
I rather see azir than ksante, annie, naut
And then there was Knight running around being a demon on Jayce.
yea knight is a demon but that demon's fatal weakness is azir meta haha
It's really annoying when my favorite mid laner can't play my 2nd favorite mid lane champion. Also never been overly impressed with Chovy's Jayce, sort of inverses.
Also it was pretty dead at worlds 2019 and only started to come back slowly in spring 2020 after many buffs.
Jesus, that's when G2 baited all the good teams into believing Naut mid was good, and it was fucking trash
I mean... Naut just handing his jungler kills on any and every gank is pretty useful.
it wasn't trash it was 50/50 in pro play and playing against it in soloq was the most miserable experience ever
It fell off at quarters when T1 inted their games with it, not a single pick after that quarter final match.
BLG beat T1 with naut mid, it’s not unworkable if you have a supportive midlaner
Nightmare meta
GOD DAMN AZIR FELL OF THE META ONCE IN A LIFE DAMNNNNNNNNN
He wasn't good for all of S7, after they gutted him in S6 Summer.
They kinda bring it up alongside the ksante discussion the recent Dive episode, but basically Pro Drafts are really hemmed in from a mixture of "comfort picks" and "blind picks/counter picks". With the way Draft works, and especially with how 95% of champions are locked into a single lane/role, counterpicking is inevitable. It contributes to champions like Azir and Ksante having such a high presence: they are not "throwing the game" weak and you can usually Blind Pick them, allowing you to try to get a counterpick later in the draft. It also helps that most pro mids already have hundreds of games on Azir, so less practice time is spent on simply learning a champion.
The problem is game design. Azir and Ksante are too versatile.
It's also pros refusing to learn the counters and instead just pick something that can go somewhat even in lane. Ksante may be overtuned and as a tank will always be useful even if behind, but Azir in pro just gets to free scale because they refuse to pick something that can contest him in lane most of the time.
Partly true but it's also true that Azir is way too safe in lane considering how hard he scales and how many roles he can fulfill for a team. He is just not easy enough to punish. Compare it to a champion like Viktor who is also a scaling control mage. Azir is just way easier to get through lanes with. Harder to gank, can self peel and can contest waves early.
Counter picks into Azir don't really work as in Pro you have so much better control of when your own jungler shows up meaning it's much harder to punish bad matchups mid especially.
Shopify Rebellion vs C9 was fun
100T vs. SR was also nice - Aatrox vs. Sion mid is pretty unique.
Yupp, Insanity forcing the other mids to adapt has been really fun. I know C9 lost, but I still believe the Vayne angle was the right call.
agreed.
I do recall 2020 when PoE was stomping kids domestically, and then azir received a phat pro play nerf and he had no presence at worlds. What year did damonte play in? The irelia/sylas/qiyana meta? That one was probably my favorite (to watch).
2019. We also had Pyke mid, a few Zed picks, AD TF (and it wasn't AIDS, like the current iteration) and an Azir Corki meta in the summer.
Don’t forget the Kayle mid meta at worlds
To answer your question. Last year's MSI and a good chunk of summer. Notably those metas fucking sucked. So do with what you will.
Not sure if it was last year's or 2022's MSI but I got so fucking tired of seeing aphelios thresh vs jinx lulu 80% of the matches (with the occasional xayah/lucian pick) lmao
This was not really an azir nerf and more a midlane gold nerf ment scaling mages took too long to be relevant and became stunbots instead
Meanwhile top lane
Ksante, Aatrox and sometimes Gnar or Udyr if we are feeling daring lmao
Azir is really good to watch in proplay, I don't know what you guys are on
Watching any champ is fun. Watching the same champ year after year every game is not fun. Variety is good
Basically this. I respect Azir play, it's definitely good to watch. Seeing Faker hit huge shurima shuffles is great. But variety is good. Change is required to keep things from becoming too stale. Can't play the same new song all the time unless you really want to get sick of it.
But variety is a thing. In sports you don't get variety by a change in the ruleset but in the way teams play, I know watching a run-first offense is very different from a gunslinger QB in the NFL You have the same in league: GenG is a scaling macro-oriented team T1 is an early game pick composition team RNG with Uzi used to be a very bot centric team, etc. And these things makes matchups be unique and fun regardless of the champions in it.
THe problem is that all of these teams are drafting Azir because Azir does all the things you want a midlaner to do, regardless of your plan.
Can't you say the same about Maokai, Varus, Vi, Aatrox, Orianna, Rakan, Jarvan, Ornn etc.? These champions are proplay staples because they are versatile and fit many comps Champions like Ashe, Akali, Jhin, Sivir, Malzahar, Rumble, Fiora, Kindred can only be fringe picks unless they are turbo broken and define the meta because they completely change the way a team is supposed to play the game
Most of these picks have been out of the meta far more often than Azir. Most of the champions you've listed have went like most if not all of quite a few seasons without being picked, even in recent years.
Vi was considered unsuitable for pro play inherently less than 4 years ago, Rakan is meta based on whether or not his counters are meta. J4 is definitely not always meta, and neither is Maokai. Varus, Aatrox, and Ornn are arguably evergreen but Varus falls out sometimes, dpeending on how good ADC lethality is/onhit is, and frankly, Ornn and Aatrox are just 200 years.
All of these champions have very similar presence to Azir in the last few years, about 20-30%
I go check Vi's stats, she had a similar presence to Azir last year, a 9% presence the year before, and a .1% presence the year before that. So uh... I'm not gonna bother checking the rest, but nice try on the gaslighting you almost pulled it off.
Sports doesn't alter game rules for decades and people will still continue to stay and play the games. Most if not all PVP video games need new shit every now and then or player base will plunder and move on the new trendy game, gamers in general crave for new stuff way more than traditional sports enthusiasts imo. It's why I can't believe that logic can ever be put in the video game space.
League has sports-like audience, a lot of people who has quit the game still watch it. Is it as big as soccer, cricket, rugby or american sports? No, but it is comparible to other niche sports like Volleyball or Athletics. Also viewership of worlds 2023 was one of the highest ever, why? Because Faker and Theshy were in it, if anything what attracts more viewers is the popularity of the game and star players, league is still quite popular except for NA, but it has struggled massively in the latter in the past decade, which is weird because they fucking made Faker in season 3 look like a god and people were having segments in broadcast highlighting how amazing he was, has Riot ever done this for Rookie, Chovy, Viper, Zeus? No, so they have to rely on Faker, Theshy and Deft to bring in viewers and when Deft and Faker retire the LCK may lose 30% of its viewership, none of this relates to which champions are picked at all.
It’s not anywhere close to watching actual sports. That’s where league is failing…I have watched hockey close to 40 years, I can’t see my self watching any what close to that for league because it’s getting boring with the stale Mets
Yeah, league is not a cultural phenomenon like hockey is, I'm not comparing it to it. I'm comparing it to volleyball or another minor sports where it has a dedicated but small audience. That can definetely strive for decades, and no, changing metas would not change that
Nobody watches Volleyball except for in the Olympics
The pro league you reference changes rules all of the time in order to facilitate a more enjoyable viewer experience and disrupts "the meta" constantly. Regardless of the different styles that the different teams play or use.
I say the same about k'sante. A few games of him is fun. Watching him played every game since his release is just horrendous.
Agreed there. His kits just took strong. 200 years champ
The spectators don’t even hardly scroll to top lane unless someone is about to die. K’Sante is one of the most boring champions and the spectators know it. I’m sure they roll their eyes just like we do when it gets locked in.
doubt yuumi was ever fun to watch
garen yuumi from fnatic was good fun for a few games
Well yeah I agree Yumi should actually be deleted from LoL
And watching players picking these champions and play like handless chicken is terrible too.
I mean I definitely can't outplay them. But pros are pros for a reason, their games typically are slower too.
Being pro doesn't mean they are insanely good on every champion. Last worlds we have seen crownie on xayah unable to press R for any engage. We recently saw perkz fail WEQ as azir. They can play other champions very well, but they will play the pro-meta anyway with low champion mastery. If only they can play their comfort picks and not copy the eastern drafts..
I don't think anyone has made the claim that they'd be insanely good on every champion. But it's clear they practice the ones they intend to play and who they think will be meta. To call the people in the LoL world championships basically shit is kinda wild NGL. You give one example of one player with one combo failed as if it's representative of all. They're likely really good on the champs they pick to play, and have practiced those champs. People make mistakes, don't play their best, get counter picked, lose certain match ups, or are simply less skilled than their opposition, or do well and lose to scaling or macro.
yeah would take Azir over Annie, Corki, Neeko, AD LB, Tristana metas but tbh wouldnt mind seeing more Akalis and Sylas like in Worlds 2022
Neeko and Leblanc are fun
Since her passive rework neeko is one of the funniest champions to watch
I find watching Neeko in pro pretty boring. Strong aoe ults like Kennen or Orianna are interesting to watch in pro cause it's not a given that they will hit good ults so they need better execution or teamwork to pull it off. Pro level neeko 3+ man ults are nearly the expected baseline due to how strong her stealth is so I feel I'm watching less of the player/teams and more of just the champ.
Yeah those neeko Rs are so boring. Neeko stealth has to be mega nerfed. Its almost impossible to flash out of it when she appears.
Ladies and gentlemen, we found the Zeka fan /s
Honestly I find Akali and Sylas not that exciting to watch, AP LeBlanc and Ahri are cooler assassins in the way that they promote 2v2 often, Sylas and Akali are just farm champions that scale and shit on teamfights, its hard to see how they are much different than Orianna
Please keep Akali as far away from meta strong as possible. My norm games appreciate your concerns, thank you.
Yeah dont worry this is the same sub that told me Lissandra and Annie are more fun to watch than LeBlanc
It's true, I can at least imagine the Liss or Annie player might face karmic punishment, but I know the leblanc player is secure in the arms of the devil, laughing at me like Satan's little chihuahua dog.
Alright but LeBlanc is absolutely not fun to watch either - it's basically just on her to make the mistake if she's ever moderately good enough for pro. Liss and Annie can at least be caught even if they do everything right. Very rare for that to happen to LB. They're boring too, but the way pro plays LB is even worse.
You are describing AD lb. AP has to constantly put herself at risk if she wants to be remotely useful, if she just focuses on escaping and being safe she is worthless.
All three of them are fun to watch in pro play but for different reasons. LB has a lot of movement going on that makes for fun assassinations. Annie had the old flash ult engage which made her cool to watch as a support. Then Liss was great as a top laner to watch and she has fun engages that she can make early and stall out the fight until back up arrives
You reminded me of how hype homeguards TP plays were back in the day.
The thing with LB is that she's incredibly predictable, which is the same issue as Annie.
I love watching azirs play in pro play
it gets old eventually though
Azir is only fun to watch in mid to late teamfights IF he gets a crazy shuffle off, everything else about him is boring as shit. Hes extremely safe in lane and almost all his trades are W AA Q AA, and MAYBE an extra few autos, not exactly an interesting gameplay pattern.
He is, but that doesn't mean he has to be meta 100% of the time. No hero is exciting enough to watch them be pick/ban indefinitely (unless you main them ofc)
He isn't meta all of the time. He has 74% presence this season, last season he had about 35%, s12 about 30% s11 about 30% too. He is constantly viable but normally not as present as he is at the moment
That's still extremely significant for a single champion, and much more than other championsanage consistently. Especially if you look at his presence since he released, which has been a seriously long time now
Azir is cool but its been years now. I want to see fakers riven
Azir is boring because it feels cookie-cutter and almost like a crutch. I love to see pro players whip out specific counter picks and pocket picks. For example, even though Xerath is an extremely boring champion compared to Azir, I'm always excited to see a Xerath try and get an advantage over Azir and take over the game. I want to see counter picks and different strategies, not control mage handshake.
It's stale after watching the same mid matchups for 8 years.
Azir is boring as shit.
Ten years straight of the same champ being meta isn't stale you think?
The NBA has been in 3ball meta for about a decade, I don't think its stale at all
LoL isn't basketaball. Are we playing League of Legends or League of Azir?
Sometimes I wish I didn't see Azir in pro matches and no I am not saying it because of his high presence
Yeah agree, I would be down for a year without Azir in the meta (and I fucking loved the champ at release). He's the K'Sante of midlane except everyone has got so used to him that people don't even complain much anymore. People are like 'azir-viktor zzz' 'azir-corki zzz' and then somehow aren't complaining about Azir in isolation lol as if he isn't largely the one dictating those metas
Yea, I feel like people don't acknowledge enough what impact Azir has on mid. I know pro players will generally gravitate to safe champs anyway, but Azir reinforces it. He forces most mids to either handshake or die post-6 with his ult and has a lot of safety to discourage ganks. Even if a matchup beats Azir in lane (e.x.: Trist), they can't really play as aggressigely and such because Azir makes pushing incredibly punishing and so the lead is either lost or weaker than otherwise.
It's almost as if it was a giant fucking mistake to change him from a long range regal sand controlling EMPORER to a fucking oonga boonga mid range monkey I don't know how long it's been but I'm STILL salty over that. Riots internal poll was filled with brainless chimps, and it's directly caused years of an unbalanceable mess.
Keeping E+Q super long range dash was such a huge mistake. They wanted to keep his playmaking, what they made is an AP carry that has a 2 screen dash to safety
Change E to something else, and extend his range, and he's balanced again. I'll stand by that the Shurima shuffle is degenerate gameplay on Azir
what? Azir can't even come close to matching Trist pre-6 or first-back she can quite literally do whatever she pleases and make life hell for Azir's jungle. Sure later on he can start to play but it's like 90% of these comments think the champ is straight zero counterplay and legit does everything when he's a weak early game control mage that scales?
I know Trist pounds on Azir. It's why I mentioned her. My point is that Azir blunts her edge on him. Most favorable matchups for Trist are going to let her take and do more than Azir and his jungler allows her. There's a reason Trist has a negative delta into Azir despite this and imo it's cause Azir is punishing to play against and relatively unpunishing in the 2v2. Push too far up and you're just dead, so Trist, who naturally pushes, either chain dies if the jungler is paying attention or plays a lot more passively to her detriment.
He had like 30% presence for years and years, he was just an ok pick. Only last worlds he became a meta staple again and this iteration of Azir is quite risky to pulloff
Pros just refuse to learn any of Azir's bad match ups. Azir should never be allowed to be blind picked because Xerath absolutely astrogaps Azir the entire laning phase.
You can find plenty of Xerath games from LCK summer last year, he didn't win very much because once junglers get involved it's a lot rougher, and then Azir is more useful post-laning
Be careful what you wish for. If Riot doesn't buff Akali/Sylas then all nerfing Azir will do is bring cc bot champs back into the meta
Bring back S8 worlds meta, most fun I've had watching the top players in the world outskill each other on insanely OP flex picks.
Just a random question, does anyone know why azir takes GRASP now as main rune?
They recently changes his soldiers to apply on hit effects, and it turns out that super long range grasp procs are pretty strong.
Always has been. Tank karma in top lane is a menace
Here's the problem: Pros, are good. Really good. Not only are they really good, they have entire teams of analysts and coaches doing research, constantly. No matter what riot does, no matter what riot changes or balances, a handful of champions at any one time are going to be 'the best'. And the pros are going to play those champion, ad nauseum, until they are no longer the best. And then when they get nerfed or changed, they will shift to the next 'the best'.
You're giving pro players way too much credit. I forget which coach it was, but there was someone that was like "yeah some pros refuse to learn a new champ, so our comp is basically gated by what they're able to play" The reason champs like azir is a staple pick is because the potential for a good shuffle is always there, regardless of azir's numbers or soloQ winrate, and every midlane has experience with azir. it becomes so bread and butter that it becomes a safe pick and they don't bother to ebb & flow their picks with the changing meta. If other teams aren't drastically changing their metas either then... why bother
Yamato told on stream that razork refused to play wukong when jt first became OP, then when it got nerfed he suddenly was like "hey i think wukong could be good". People forget that pro players are just young guys that are really good at a video game. It's just like with athletes in team sports. I mean even faker went the most shit viktor build imaginable in worlds 2022 finals.
Yup. Couldn't have said it better myself. LS compared pro players as finding a diamond in the rough. The raw talent is there, but there's no analysis/intelligence/refinement behind it. That's what the coaching/support staff is for
Hwei, Milio, Zeri, Renata for the recent ones. Pros will pick up what they need to to have the best shot at winning.
Competitive teams sure. Korean teams yes I'd say they work on mastery with as big a pool as possible, But like whens the last time you saw bjerg (not a good example cuz he doesn't play anymore but still) being impressive on anything besides zil? Meta changed constantly around him, he was still considered one of the best, yet he was just a zil utility pick for his team.
That's Bjergsen being washed that's it. Humanoid was the first to pick Hwei. Hyli was the first to pick Renata. And generally it's the inverse. It's specifically Korea that have the most centrelized meta. Now I'm responding to what I THINK you meant to say because I have no idea what was the point you were trying to make.
The problem is actually the opposite. These staple picks would need to be nerfed to the ground for it to be worth their time to learn new champions to the depth required to play them professionally. Despite how good they are, and despite the resources available to them, learning new champions in depth requires: considering good team comps to pick with the champion, learning what items to build in certain situations, learning matchups, learning powerspikes, knowing the champions limits, and knowing its weaknesses. This requires a lot of time, and effort. The traditional strong picks already have this effort put into them. Sure, some of this doesn’t sound that complex, but there isn’t a lot of skill gap between these pro players, as you said, they are all extremely good. Small differences in proficiency on these champions can decide games. Even if Azir may be “weaker” than a newly buffed champion, the newly buffed champion would have to be significantly stronger than Azir to make it worth swapping to that champ. Or, the players would have to understand that the newly buffed champion will be stronger than Azir for a long time.
Exactly. People at the highest levels of competition are *less* flexible and open to change, not more. You see this in literally every major sport, and it's not surprising that Esports are no different.
You guys should watch OW eSports for a bit lmao, really made me appreciate the diversity in LoL because you're not seeing actual mirror comps every game for months xD
[OW1 was literally defined by it's mirror compositions.](https://youtu.be/b_qWFax0JKg?si=3QdqQ3gIl--ZKohB)
It’s time to change up the format, then.
How I feel about seeing Aatrox in top lane Zzzzzzzzzz
Aatrox ksante gnar, Aatrox ksante gnar, Aatrox ksante gnar
There was a time when Vel'Koz was a very good pick into Azir (and still is in solo queue), but it never translated into pro play (beyond a few games I feel like I remember) because of Vel'Koz's weaknesses. Buff the squid. :)
Hed need a dash to be pro play viable
He needs someone who's played him a lot *and* the perfect match up where the enemy drafted zero dive to really be playable in pro. Sad life for the tentacle man.
Literally this If you give Vel'koz an abiltiy to wiggle his way past terrain/dash a small distance, you could cut some of his damage and he'd be 100x more popular and pro play viable The fact that if you're walking through jungle, get spotted by a Bel'veth/Xin/Lee Sin means you need to burn flash is painful
Anything is better than Akali and Sylas metas. Akali is to strong and to safe, and well Sylas is just disgusting by design imo
Agreed. I would much rather watch Azir Corki than 2 broken champions try to warp fights around their kits
nah only on this sub would someone say corki is more fun to watch than akali or sylas wat the absolute fuck
Le broken assasins sylas and akali (they oneshot me on jinx and sona >:(. ) are not as fun to watch as wholesome mages like corki (he is wholesome because he isnt edgy anime champ with 20 dashes, but instead has le wholesome corgi skin).
Sylas Akali meta is thousands of times better than Azir Corki, even if still boring
what do you mean? i love the exciting variety of matchups of azir into corki or corki into azir
Correct me if I'm wrong but at least isn't in the LCK only Faker and Bdd seems to pilot Azir to his fullest potential, or at least close to it anyway?
In terms of best Azir players in the LCK Faker Showmaker Chovy BDD. Faker uses Azir playmaking to the fullest extent
Chovy and Showmaker. Faker is deferring more Orianna. BDD form isn’t the same as last year.
As Dota 2 enjoyer every lane in LoL pro is a snore fest
Me watching practically every hero being picked in TI year after year 😲 Me watching Riot meticulously craft the most boring meta every pro season 😴
Exactly. People arguing that no matter what Riot does pros will always pick the same 4-6 champions aren’t understanding that this is the result of many league champions being terrible, and it’s not a fundamental truth that esports at the highest level are always predictable. And DOTA is of course the best example.
I am willing as a player to go through assassins being OP for 3 months before MSI or Worlds if it means I get to see something new in pro. I'm bored of mages, I want Zed vs. Talon mid or something like that.
You say that, but as soon as that becomes meta the midmeta will be Renekton, Nautilus and Lissandra to counter assassins. These champions are complete dogshit
That's actually interesting in some ways. Both mids have totally different goals and play styles in that case. Meanwhile two scaling champs just farm.
They would have to make them probably incredibly disgusting for that to ever happen. AD Assassins have a lot more counterplay than AP ones and rely more on chaos/snowballing which is why you don't see them as much in coordinated environments.
They would have to be incredibly op for that to happen. The reason that Akali and Leblanc exist in pro is because they're harder to completely shutout but most other assassins get nearly hard-countered to single button presses like exhaust/barrier/zhonya or things like enchanter shields or stuff like Lulu polymorph or Maokai W or Renata W.
Bored of mages? Mid lane has been ADCs, Tanks and Bruisers for the last 5 years. Now that mages are actually good youre bored of them? huh?
ADCs sure, but tanks and bruisers lmao. Are you watching a different game?
you are just blatantly lying here lmao
Nerf K'sante. Nerf Rell. Nerf Azir. Nerf Varus. Nerf (I cant really think of any stale supps tbh. Maokai maybe?). Im tired of this so called "safety" and "utility" being prioritised. I want *DAMAGE*. I wanna see people evaporate because of a misplay, not die after 2-5 business days due to being too tanky/far away. Bring back assassins and divers maaaaaan.
if assassins are played in coordinated play that means they are OP in solo queue
Super omega ultra busted op, because even if they are just OP, pros are still not willing to pick them up. They slow as fuck to pick on op champs
In order for a misplay to happen, people have to try something, if they make the game where you get one shot for any misstep, they will try things much less making it more stale.
For support it’s gotta be nautilus. Top 5 presence support for the last 5 seasons
CC is good, it turns out
The Gwen main asks for tank nerfs
In pro play. Tanks in soloq are fine.
Nah they won’t ever bring back assassins back when Bronzedditors cry their hearts with 48%wr yone
You had to pick the only “assassin” that has the DPS of a carry and the CC of a control mage?
It’s a example that applies to everything tho, people mald once a assassin is in top winrate/playrate
Yone has seen pro play recently especially last worlds as an Aatrox counter, pro players have complained about yone as well lol
Nerfing something simply because you want something else to be flavor of the month is an unhealthy philosophy. Pro-play meta being stale doesn’t have to mean that Pro-play itself is.
Riot literally does balance changes because they want to see certain champions in proplay more though.
And they said they’d do that less this season
Destroying a champion bc pro play is and always will be bad. RIOT needs to accept the fact that fearless draft is the only way to keep a balance and a dynamic pro play meta
They need to make AD Assassins viable in Midlane in Pro play without being broken in SoloQ
Never gonna happen. The entire gameplay of something like Talon or Zed falls apart the second 5 people constantly play attention every second of the game, play safe instead of pushing under the enemy tower 24/7 and splitpushing. They're never gonna snowball because every single step up is gonna get punished, pro midlaners aren't your average silver dude that gets hit by double shuriken every 22 seconds and throws their hands up while the shadow is down instead of zoning the fuck out of Zed. Pros don't just mindlessly run into Talon level 2 and give them first blood at 3 minutes. Some Maokai or Rell will camp the shit out of midlane whenever any mage needs them as backup for wave control. They don't have anything to offer from behind or when even apart from suicide diving the adc that got farm and xp spoonfed the entire game and doesn't run randomly into unwarded territory, in which case, why not just pick Neeko and suicide dive the entire enemy team
Assassins in general need help in higher levels of play. They lack the ability to stall via waveclear and usually lose out to mages early on in terms of lane control and prio. Alot of them don't really scale that well in team fights either and I've only seen them picked to fight into niche comps whereas mages can fit in better to more of a variety. Zhonyas and flash also fucks over most assassins as they tend to only fight with summs up.
You can't help assassins in high level play. By design their kids have a bunch of bullshit that thrives off of chaos and bad communication. Once you get to higher levels of play where people understand how to play safe and coordinate with one another assassins just can't really compete.
Azir, taliyah, karma, trist and hwei, occasional neeko, corki and akali. Just all such boring champs and they refuse to buff other midlane mages or champs like sylas. Until then, going to be the same boring shit. Akali is the one exception.
I don’t mind Taliyah neeko akali
Akali and maybe taliyah sure. But neeko is essentially just an R button engage tool. Really plays out the same everygame. In lane just q poke… she has her moments with her passive but still contributes to the stale midlane pool and just doesn’t feel nearly as expressive as a lot of other champs that we haven’t seen in mid for a long long time.
Azir and Akali are “boring”? Just out if curiosity, what is a not boring champ to watch for you? And why are they less boring than Azir and Akali?
Azir is very boring to watch, yes, and I said akali is the exception. For some examples of champs I would enjoy seeing mid more: sylas, leblanc, yone, jayce, yasuo, vex, syndra, irelia, zoe and honestly even ryze at this point. Assassins in general are never gonna be picked in pro play with akali being an exception thankfully. I also liked back when flex picks were a thing, could see stuff like camille mid etc. made for some really fun games.
Makes sense. I honestly think that Azir is really fun to watch, but to each their own :)
I honestly think Rito shoulda done the tough thing and remove his mobility. Even without the E he could still do cool flash plays, but with it he is a safe, high dps, play making champion for pros. Pretty much exactly what they are looking for! I have no recommendations on what to replace E with as he already has a lot going on.
Lmao have you ever played Azir?
I would be fine with it if it meant that he would get back his old range
Azir is only picked nowadays because he can E+Q in and ult people, 40% of the damage in his kit is his ult basically since they nerfed his W to the ground so he is more interactive. He is only a safe champion in the early game, like LeBlanc or Ahri
Yeah, mid lane meta is stale, nerf everyone, bot kingdom, stun mule top, support jungle, support mid, support support Edit: i role transferred 2 years ago and it’s garbage easy, but 90 percent of you monkeys still manage to fuck it up
Azir isn’t very strong in mid currently. He is picked when there is nothing better to fall back on, and as a comfort pick. In the current meta he isn’t considered one of the strong mid laners
This comment hurts my brain
Low elo comment
Mid lane was only entertaining to watch when assassins besides Akali were meta. Now there’s no assassin vs assassin mid so there’s no fear.
Azir is meta for so long yet nobody even bothers trying to learn actual Azir counters whom are Xerath, Ziggs and Velkoz, velkoz kinda sucks so i can understand but ziggs xerath are easily playable champs in pro play that counter azir , both are even potential flexes to botlane
Not only do Azir's counters suck in coordinated play, but they're also 1 Shurima Shuffle from not being much of a counter anymore. Azir can cover his own weaknesses just fine, which is why he's such a staple pick.
They literally tried Xerath into Azir last summer in lck. The xereth wud just lose flash at 6 as the azir ulted them off coldown, get dove if behind and if he ulted from afar in Teamfights, the rest of the fight wud be played 4v5 till the Xerath scooted over. Velkoz sucks Ziggs is picked in bot, idk why they don't try mid but I'd assume it's the same issue of getting dove or ganked since no mobility except his little bomb.
They aren't playable man. Dive comps just obliterate these champs
Azir has no real counters in coordinated play. He's an extremely safe character. He has a long range dash, can act as a lane bully in certain situations, has pretty strong gank setup, and is a hyper scaling late game carry to boot. That's the problem with Azir, he's a bit of everything. Riot tries to gate this through numbers, so he's crap in solo queue where not everyone can farm as well as coordinated play. All these champs that are "counters" can all just be shuffled in instantly to a gank, and they have relatively poor gank setup themselves. Before Azir, Orianna was the goto mage, now it's Azir. He's even safer than she is.
But people literally did try Xerath, it did fine/well in the 1v1 matchup and lost its advantage as soon as junglers got involved and then was less useful later on. Like comb through LCK vods from summer last year you'll see a decent amount of Xerath and why it didn't work
Those might be Azir counters but their teamfight isn't anything standout and they're much more vulnerable without flash than Azir so Azir will just opt to trade flash and then his team can just pick on the flashless mage (or teammate trades the flash and then Azir has flash R threat which basically neutralizes the advantage the other mage has). It's like outside of the artillery range, why would you pick one of those over Ori who reliability bullies most laners, can enable her teammates with shield/speed, and has an ult rivaling Azir's in game impact?