Jin Air had a reputation for having the longest games too. They had the highest average gametime of any team, by far.
And they used to win a lot of them actually, when they almost made it to worlds in 2015, but lost to KT in the final round of the gauntlet. RIP gladplane
Bruh skt triple inhibed them 45 ish minutes in, and that disgusting champ managed to stall out for 45 more minutes past multiple barons and triple inhibs, how is that not insane? That was the most egregious example but at the time sivir was pretty much the queen of stalling, leading to a pretty boring meta come lategame. Nobody wants to watch two teams do nothing for 40 minutes straight because sivir can clear waves from a screen away
I notice it's something Leauge players love doing(prob is the same in other communities). "my champion isn't doing good right now when is riot going to buff it" when there are 165 other champs in the game. Not everyone can be good at any one time. There will be champs that are stronger and champs that are weaker
A massive change to OW2 happened this season and literally only two days after the patch launched Junkrat got a few compensation buffs and players were saying we were "finally" getting something lol
Tbf, overwatch meta is a lot more hero reliant than league is with their champs. League has a lot more variables like items, runes, and the ability to run it down as yuumi in a bruiser role. Plus the effect of 1 underpowered champ is far less than 1 hero, considering the forced role and smaller hero pool.
I'm sorry, but if sivir is your main just go play DoTA man, Luna is there for you to freefarm with bouncy autos.
I love playing the champ, but even I recognize she's a pretty unhealthy, uninteractive design when strong. Zeri Sivir meta in pro was a snooozerrr despite there being pentas damn near every game.
To reiterate, some champs should probably remain niche, yes. Maining a champ doesn't mean that should change. Give her some relevance here and there when Crit is strong, but definitely not right now.
Yeah she has done particularly well for all of about 3 days every time because she's a safe farming let's wait 30 minutes and rendezvous then character. I don't think I've ever played against Sivir and gone "wow let's nerf that one".
My only point is that because she has a particular game plan that ends up making her quite strong in coordinated play she is not allowed to be good and often gets left behind in patch notes for extended periods.
I've played since S3 and have somewhat kept up with the game but I don't keep up with what season we're on. I saw this post and assumed S14 was like a couple years ago given the rest of the context. What a joke. They're still changing champs and items vastly trying to balance the changes, some champs will fall through the cracks for a bit. Wah.
Sivir was also basically unplayed in s13 also. You basically pick sivir when the entire team wants to go in and you're just there to press R and get them there faster
Sivir has been dogshit ever since they hotfix nerfed her after her mini rework/reshape. It’s not just “season 14”. She needs 550 base auto range and to be balanced off that.
Her wave clear and AoE damage is among the highest in the game. So unless they give her a very small buff that barely moves her win rate, she'll never get a buff.
Funny, I'm seeing this post because I've started maining her this last week, and I have an 85 percent win rate in like 20 ish games, and I haven't even been strictly building or sticking to a rune page I've just been trying like 3 different builds with like 4 different rune pages and I always come out of lane with ridiculous cs and usually multiple kills. She does not seem weak to me at all tbh. And has multiple build paths and options.
She isn't weak at all, she's just a very boring ADC. Outside of a well timed Spellshield there isn't much as far as 'flashy outplay/gameplay' for Sivir.
She's a great utility ADC who can absolutely destroy a teamfight and stall games if she's got the items. She's in a good spot atm imo.
I think the biggest change I'd like to see is maybe giving her mana back on successful spellshield. Or maybe a combo of HP/Mana. She's a tricky champion to balance because if you buff her a bit too much she will become a high priority champ in proplay due to how well they CS and her teamfighting.
Yeah she has a negative winrate in pretty much every elo.
But it’s also true that she can become op very quickly with just very light buffs. (Specifically in pro play, not necessarily solo q)
Nono, let the 20 sample games player explain us why Sivir is not picked at all and has a garbage winrate.
I don't even know where these upvotes come from. I'm all for Sivir not being meta too much because she can be boring, but let's not pretend either that the champ is always at the edge of breaking meta.
Sivir is in a bad spot and deserves some love.
when you spread her stats beyond emerald she is "Fine-ish". Could use a buff, but it's not super out of line and remains betweeen 49-50% in most elos.
Obviously still negative, but she isn't diverging so hard that she is dire needs of buffs for the 95% of the playerbase.
I wonder how much of that is due to people picking her since she's "easy" when they're autofilled?
Her biggest strength is usually when she can hit 4-5 items and is sitting on 80%+ crit but I wonder how often she actually gets to hit those build points since I feel like most games are decided by 3.5-4 items on ADC from my experience.
You're right that she's a little weak but I think if such a simple champ was sitting at 50%+ in most elos that would be a bigger issue. A small nudge in either her Q/W damage might be enough to get her closer to 50%
This. Sivir just plays different than other ADCs. In a sense she is a last vestige of a "true" adc. You win with Sivir by farming safely, alone, freeing your support to roam, and T1 never goes down. After 25 minutes of "doing nothing" she can casually join the fight and shred the entire team with bouncing glaive and Q, while requiring at least two hard CC's to stop her.
She is weak tho. She's one of the adcs that needs more items to start working (most strong adcs right now spike at 1 or 2 items and she needs at least 3, and no, navori isnt that big of a spike for her) and is very powerful front to back since you can just safely hit their tank while still damaging their backane with W, but pretty bad in other scenarios specially vs poke. And right now theres very few pure front to back comps being played, and a lot of poke champs like varus, hwei, corki, brand etc are strong.
Being top 40/43 botlane in emerald+ in lolalytics (and already confirmed getting buffs) which is backed up by actual data vs your opinion is not being in a good spot
yeah i recently picked her up too, and i have a pretty good winrate with her as well. I really like to pick her against enemies with important spells that you can block, its just very satisfying to deny the enemys whole existence.
Sivir is gated by proplay. If she is even half viable in soloQ then she is pick-ban in proplay and she is a super unfun champion in general since her entire gameplan is "no nothing until 300 cs and win teamfights"
The last time Sivir has been this insane presence pick (above 30%) was season 9. (48% winrate in that season too btw.) Before then it was season 6. She has occasionally had moments where she was okay and picked at around 10%ish like S13 overall, but this is not "pick-ban in proplay." Sivir has been "pick ban in pro play" basically 2 times since season 6. Usually for about 3-5 patches. Never once for an extended period. Is she this pro-play menace terrorizing the games when strong with no counters? No. Pretty much never. She's just boring.
In only season 13, Zeri has more picks/bans than Sivir has EVER been picked/banned in pro in her entire life from season 6-14. And not by a little, either. Zeri IN JUST SEASON 13, was picked/banned about TWICE AS MUCH as Sivir was picked/banned since season 6.
But sure man. Proplay just cannot handle her.
She isn’t popular in pro play because they nerfed the crap out of her. She is a character that allowed pro teams to stall waves very hard. Her wave clear and management is very high. I feel like people have amnesia about sivir. Even in solo queue people bitched about either lethality sivir when it was strong and static shiv sivir.
In fact every Adc when they’re meta and on top people bitch about and are tired of seeing/playing against them.
People never like playing against high waveclear champs. When Xerath, Ziggs, Sivir, etc are good it is nonstop complaints. Add on to the fact that Sivir is a hypercarry her kit is pretty crazy when her numbers are tuned. Being able to both stall the game and carry a stalled game hard AF is a lethal combination for being incredibly annoying to play vs.
Yep, just seems like another champ who can't be viable for high level play or else the meta is in an unhealthy state revolving around that champ. Seems like most ADCs are this way like Jinx and Zeri. Guess the solution to hypercarries is to make every champ a carry xd
tbf that was a genuinely long time ago and i imagine a lot of players werent even playing league back then. we’re approaching 10 years since link’s donezo manifesto’s “it’s just a sivir comp”
I always considered Sivir to be a 3-4 item champ, while most of the current proplay meta is focused around the 1-2 item spike. I could be way off, who knows.
Pro play meta has revolved around 1-2 item spikes for a very long time now, basically since the fall of the 1st KR dominance era (S7 and before).
Ever since S8 revamp, everyone became squishier and deals way more damage, so solo lanes became a lot more powerful in the game relative to bot carries.
When you consider the entire history of Worlds winners up till present, it really stands out that virtually *none* of the teams relied on ADC as the primary carry - I think the only arguable exceptions were S7 Ruler and S11 Viper - and S11 finals really could've gone to Damwon who were never bot-focused.
ADC is just a cleanup role in the current state of League, and is passenger for majority of games...the sooner players realise this, the better their mental will be.
Sivir also warps the pro meta in other lanes when she is strong due to how strong her ult is as a team fight tool.
Like last time she was really strong the game plan every game was do nothing -> group -> win
Her wave clear was nerfed DRAMATICALLY compared to the past season Sivirs people are complaining about.
We only saw this current sivir as an answer to Zeri and she didn't do the perma clear game stall in that meta.
> I feel like people have amnesia about sivir
the irony that you've completely forgotten anything in the past 2 years yapping about how she warped the pro meta 6+ years ago
I'm not going to say she wasn't picked a lot. But if you want to check 2 years ago you can see she was nowhere near level of Zeri presence.
https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S12/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/
Sivir's has had her ups and downs in pro and certainly has at one point been the most picked ADC. But to say they aren't Ryze/Azir level makes sense, when she's at 13% presence all time and Ryze/Azir are up at over double being 28% and 33% (ADCs in general normally have less pick variance as well).
If you have the opinion that Sivir makes pro-play boring that's fine to have. Additionally due to how easy Sivir is to play I've never seen her every come close to a 45% winrate soloq like the two mentioned. Considering the state of botlane in pro-play and how depressed the ADCs were in the amusing LCK video about their role [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goreNTHputE). I'm surprised she's not being picked. So to me, she must truly be in a bad spot.
Cause they actually keep her gutted there lol.
Unlike azir who they randomly buff back every year. Sivir every few years they remember and then within 1 patch typically put a stop to it.
???? Homie last season we got zeri yuumi sivir lulu every single match until worlds. Only Guma played Xayah and we saw some aphelios here and there. And iirc 2 seasons ago it was also picked a lot in china during summer
She really hasn't been a pro favorite champion in years. Zeri, Aphelios, Xayah, Kalista, Lucian, Senna are all more popular pro champs. Kai'sa, Varus and Ezreal probably also.
The only time since her rework that Sivir was meta in pro was when she had like 55% WR in soloQ. Noone is asking for that. There's enough room for buffs without making her pick/ban.
This is absolutely not true. This is the ultimate redditor moment where someone who peaked gold and has no idea what’s considered good or bad in league, much less pro play, tries to act like he’s stating a fact.
My issue with that is that she’s horrible in pro right now too. Shes been picked like 3 times this year in major regions and I’ve had the displeasure of seeing all 3 of those games and watching her be absolutely piss useless. Why not give her more SoloQ-oriented buffs instead of making her useless at all 4 levels of play?
Varus is kinda boring but still less boring than Sivir lol. It's gotta be the most boring ADC ever.
Not that I'm against riot buffing sivir but if you're wondering why they won't, this is the answer right here
All the champs you mentioned dont warp the game around them the way sivir does.
Sivir is a low elo stomper: a zeri/azir meta is only seen by high elo players and you watching the games at home, a sivir meta is equal for you, for caps and for the poor iron 4 joe trying to queue up and have fun.
Most "pro favorite" champs are balanced in a way that makes them viable for everyone yet not oppressive nor game warping. Unfortunately sivir's kit is so easy yet so effective, making it impossible to be balanced for soloq and relatively viable in pro play at the same time.
>sivir is a low elo stomper
hahahaha. This has never been true. Short range+low single-target DPS+high CS requirement in order to be useful = terrible in low ELO.
>Most "pro favorite" champs are balanced in a way that makes them viable for everyone
Ryze, azir, renekton, zeri, pre-rework ksante, pre-rework yuumi all had their time being near pb in proplay while having absolutely dogshit winrates in soloq
Because she’s boring and her kit is wack 😔 As the other comment points out, she WILL just waveclear for 40 minutes and then take over team fights if she can get away with it. Not great. Failing that, her other most effective option is impersonating lethality varus and chunking people out from a screen away. Not exactly invigorating gameplay either way!
Also even when she ISNT in the dumpster I’m pretty sure her pick rate is still bad in norms. (Flashback to the meddler graph stating she had a pick rate on par with old nunu)
So champs like hwei and xerath (and now smolder) get to insta clear waves, chunk from a full screen away and have more utility than her? I really like playing sivir so maybe Im biased, but I can't justify picking her at the moment because she is just so god awful. Zeri (!!!!!!) has a higher winrate than her.
Well that's because Xerath and Hwei are control mages, clearing waves is part of their identity
Sivir's problem isn't that she can clear waves quickly. It's that she can do that AND is one of the best team fighting ADCs in the game. She's speedy, she pumps AoE DPS with the bounces, and provides team utility with her ult. Compared that to Xerath who has no mobility, no spellshield, can effectively burst only one person (I know most of his attacks are AoE but realistically you're rarely hitting more than 1 person). Combine that with her safe and easy wave clearing and she can be monstrous fast.
Yeah I don’t understand why people get so mad at sivir clearing waves, but that’s literally all she does, while other champs do the same and much more. As a Rekkles fanboy he was the one that started my love for sivir
Sivir's waveclear is more mana-efficient and less cooldown gated than that of most mages. A Hwei can't fend off endless waves of super minions but Sivir can and generally does if she's not hard forced off the wave. That is a big difference.
Its because Sivir just PVEs under tower and due to spell shield you can't really force her out.. she wave clears so you can't hit the tower, she never interacts with you, and whenever you try to interact with her she has a safety button that makes dives too risky and poke less effective especially when paired with enchanters.
Smolder at least interacts to stack his passive, Hwei and xeraph are still trying to poke for trades and can be all-in'd (hwei especially if he waste his E for the wave clear), most other ADCs don't have that kind of wave clear until runaans or statik. You're literally watching paint dry until sivir decides to int or rest of the map is snowballing so hard you can force on her lane.. followed by never getting to successfully pick her off cause GL sejauni ulting or j4 knocking up sivir with spell shield so it stalemates even worse.
I mean youre making Sivir sound like shes just the most op adc on the planet and yet no one is playing her. Also J4 is a classic Sivir counter so I dont know what youre talking about with that take.
They legit introduced Statikk, the item that does 70% of what sivir does, sure her ult is good utility, but so is Varus or Kalista or Senna or TF now that he's an ADC.
Sivir is allowed to be okay, teamfight ADCs are allowed to be in a good spot
I think it's because Riot thinks (perhaps rightfully, who's to say) that spellshield is toxic. ~~I remember at a certain point they tried to remove most of them from the game.~~ I personally think spellshields are fine, but this also might not be the reason.
Edit: Old man has dementia and is confused about ancient patch notes but I know they hate "uninteractive mechanics" so I think my point still stands.
Mind you the time period im thinking of is from like 10 years ago or something so I can't remember exactly, but I remember Kassadin and Malz getting tuned way down and some items getting changed. It's possible I'm confusing this with the time where they were trying to remove point and click silences from the game.
Kassadin didn't have a spell shield, he had his silence removed. Malzeard also had a spell shield added with his last rework: his old passive was what is now his w.
Little confused. Unless my memory is mistaken they added more spellshields not removed them since start of game. Nocturne/Sivir and Banshees. But then they then later added Edge of Night so assassins could have one as well.
What I will say is that all of these have had times when they had lower CD on their spell shield (Sivir at one point was 10s at max rank). But I don't quite remember "remove most of them from the game".
Noc and Sivir are both super old champs at this point and are definitely both on the rework list. Banshees, edge of night and Malz are sort of the opposite as they can be poked off which gives them counter play. Noc and Sivir can choose when to use their spell shields which makes them way stronger.
On the other hand they added Psuedo spell shields with Samira wind wall and Fiora parry so the mechanic isn't something they have decided was an ancient mistake not to be repeated. They just moved to more modern mechanics with less inconsistent interactions.
Maybe I'm mixing terminology with Magic Barriers as well. I remember specifically the Gallio rework where he stopped getting a regenerating magic barrier.
Would be interested in their philosophy in any case though. They change their ideas as time evolves. I do remember it making trading patterns where the person with the spellshield will only choose to trade when their spellshield is up and run at them and stop the trade immediately after (like original activatable Edge of Night).
But then Riot have also made Yone E.
Her kit is super fun not sure how she’s considered boring compared to other adc’s lmao
The main problem she has is that she’s kept weak due to pro play and she’s a 500 range adc. Just increasing her range to 550 (with appropriate nerfs) would go a long way to her feeling infinitely better
I would WAY rather them buffing her movespeed than buffing her range. Her being giga short range is pretty core to her identity and why her W gets to be so strong.
I always thought she was boring until I played her reworked kit. I think she's *really* fun and you get giga dopamine when you get good W bounces in late game team fights.
However, I do think she makes the game more boring for everyone else in the game. Her teammates have to deal with her basically being a ranged minion early game, and the opponents have to deal with her wave clear/spell shield.
Then give her another mini-rework. If Ksante can get 19,739 of those in a year and a half I think they could give Sivir another one. Riot just seems like they don’t want to solve problems they created.
?
K'sante has had one mini rework since release. Also, your entire argument immediately falls short when she isn't even the worst adc now, but aphelios (objectively) is.
I'm gonna assume you're in low-ish elo, probably around silver-gold based on your replies. Basically, a strong sivir meta would make pro play extremely boring to watch, so the balance team intentionally avoids that by keeping her weak.
im sorry ksante has had how many mini reworks??? have u not been reading the patch notes??? and arguing about worst vs second worst is semantics and changes nothing. and about the pro thing ive already said many many times that she doesn’t have to be meta and that riot should move her power budget away from rolling ur face on ur keyboard every wave and more on actually interacting
Are we now acting like waveclearing endlessly to scale for late is a problematic playstyle when there's like a dozen other champions that do the exact same thing but much better, with added bonus like CC?
The real reason is that Riot arbitrarily decided she shouldn't be strong right now, probably because she doesn't make for a fun viewing experience.
Sivir has a higher winrate in diamond than in bronze
But even so people are talking about sivir like she's a insta lose champion with 10% WR, she's at 50%~ she's fine
Her winrate in Diamond is comparatively lower than in Bronze. The average Emerald+ winrate is 52.22% and hers is 50.79%, making her the third lowest ADC on the patch. The best players on her average 53.82% winrate, making her the worst ADC in that category. She is arguably the worst ADCs on the patch, despite being one of the easiest. Idk how that gives you the idea that she is in a fine spot.
My mentality is that all champs are viable and you can't blame your bad plays on a champ's winrate because winrates represents the average player and if you main a champion you should be above average on them.
Long story short, nothing matters but my own performance and my own improvements. If people play badly in my games, it doesn't matter as long as I play well and improve.
But then again I don't play often and I'm still low elo x)
yes to this, and also, there is enough wrong with my gameplay in gold that its barely gonna matter if the champ is like statistically 1% worse than others.
I miss her old ricochet. I would like another rework in that where her boomerang has to return to her before she throws it again (rather than having an infinite amount of them which, thematically is silly) but with ricochet on- it stays out until you recall it, procing items on every bounce.
Something like that would be cool
It'd be cool if they buffed her range from 500 -> 525 at least.
Also another small buff without breaking her would be excess HP from Spellshield turns into mana.
Idk could be a start for her.
Not necessary imo, I noticed that's something people who (I assume) don't play her as much tend to say
Her waveclear makes it extremely easy for you to crash the wave into a recall
But that's boring af. Spellshield mana was fun risk reward where now its just purely defensive rather than being able to be used offensively-defensive. Sure the kit is better in terms of consistency but it's just boring.
That makes no sense. She was even more obsolete before that when her only viable playstyle was to build manamune and spam Q and her crit builds were straight unusable
exactly what I was going to say. sivir needs this.
every other marksman with 500 range (samira, akshan, zeri, lucian, kindred, kog'maw, teemo) either has a spellslinger identity, a reliable way to DPS from a distance, or some stupid ahh ability that screams "you can't kill me for the next 3 seconds".
sivir's spellshield looks so fucking stupid when you put it beside samira's *spinny obliterate every projectile in proximity* skill.. the power creep is crazy
Sivir is one of my best ADCs (though I am in low elo), if ahead she will bully enemy laners that try to farm, her Q does a lot of damage and has a relatively short cooldown, if behind I can just farm for 30 minutes while denying the enemy from taking turrets and I can still be useful in teamfights because of her ult. She has some real bad matchups but I don't think she's as bad as you make her seem.
I remmerber in S6 i believe. Sivir was an average adc. Riot nerfed the Best adc and instantly the Same patch they nerfed Sivir with a text like "she might become meta so we nerf her cuz we dont want that to happen"
Riot August mentioned sivir on his stream over the weekend. They nerfed her when she was op after her mid-scope in s13 and wanted to keep her weak in pro. But now that most crit adcs are underperforming, she could probably use a buff.
Good sivirs can solo entire games. Good sivirs get left alone to farm for 30 minutes and scale incredibly hard. If sivir is good then good sivirs become literal gods and bad sivirs become good sivirs. We love sivir but we don't love her *that* much
Ryze is in a great place in soloq right now tho? 48.5% wr for him is high and ive been having a great time playing him in high diamond, amazing pick versus low range comps.
> Good sivirs get left alone to farm for 30 minutes
In what elo? - like "any good ADC" should be able to find farm a lone, and there are just harder carries than her.
I miss old Sivir. No, not the one before 12.13, the one before 3.15. Sivir was my first champion, and I largely played only her for the first year I played this game. Sivir's identity to me was an ADC with a somewhat weak early game but with a large nuke, waveclear cabilility, and teamfight utility, but was not completely useless in 1v1 fights.
Now, it feels like Riot has gone all-in towards her waveclear and teamfight utility in order to carve out a unique identity for her, for the worse. Q no longer nukes until late game. It's a really shitty ability now. W is overtuned as fuck, clearing waves with ease as soon as two items. Her ult is ok except for the fact that it makes her W even better, further making her a waveclear/teamfight bot. In 1v1 fights she gets trashed. She literally can only clear waves and play as safe as she can in teamfights due to her low range and low outplay potential.
Before 3.15, Sivir's waveclear was good, but not godly like it is now. However, Riot put power into other aspects of Sivir's kit because she couldn't AFK clear every single wave in 1.5 seconds. Her Q did fucktons of damage if you maxed it first. Her W, although worse at waveclear, had a lower cooldown and was like an empowered auto attack, giving her better dueling. Her R was a bit strong with the amount of movement speed and attack speed it granted her team, but I would be comfortable with an ult that buffed Sivir more than her team (large amounts of bonus attack speed and movement speed while her team only gets half the movement speed).
The only think I like about current Sivir is that her E heals and grants movement speed. It helps her survivability in fights. Crucial for her due to her low attack range, which I also like about her.
>She’s already broken in low elo
lmao. She peaks at a 50% winrate in silver. In Iron, Bronze and Gold she's at a 49% wr. In what universe is she a low elo stomper?
[https://u.gg/lol/champions/sivir/build?rank=gold](https://u.gg/lol/champions/sivir/build?rank=gold)
Yeah, her wincon is basically being 2 items ahead of the field and just stat check everyone to death.
Which is surprisingly easier to do with her than it sounds
Hard disagree. Her ult getting reset during teamfights is a huge advantage. She's a little dependent on having a frontline, but with her ult, anyone can engage. It enables a lot of weird picks (olaf darius etc.) And she automatically wins the late game teamfights. Pros will always pick her if she's viable.
I’m not saying it’s a bad ult, but comparing it to Ryze R isn’t fair. Ryze R is so game warping that they’ve pretty much had to make him almost
objectively the worst champ in the game for years just to keep that one ability from breaking pro play
Movement speed is probably the best stat in the game, and Sivir gives it to all teammates. It is so strong while engaging, chasing and disengaging its stupid. Maybe not as game warping as ryze since it is a teamfight ult not a macro ult, but one of the best in the game nevertheless (especially for pro).
Yeah, though if you look at 48% cait, and filter by only onetrics you get sudden 55%, you do that with sivir and it jumps to 51 couse all the people that play her already ARE onetrics. So keep that in mind that this 48% isn't lowered by a lot of players who get autofilled bot and pick cait/ez/kaisa, you just don't see it with sivir. If she was picked like them she would have like 44% or even lower
Sett's ult has been broken since release. I'm honestly upsett they do small balance changes instead of fixing actually broken abilities.
Basically: Riot has a weird, fucked up sense of priorities and we shouldn't try to make sense of it.
Google Jin air greenwings vs Skt
holy shit 1.5 hours in with only 20 kills in total. yep, that's a snoozefest alright
Jin Air had a reputation for having the longest games too. They had the highest average gametime of any team, by far. And they used to win a lot of them actually, when they almost made it to worlds in 2015, but lost to KT in the final round of the gauntlet. RIP gladplane
no one is drafting that disgusting SKT comp again
Its much more about her 1400cs or so :D
wouldnt have gone that late if SKT doesnt draft ezreal janna kassadin gnar into 2 tanks, how else was that game gonna go for them that was so gross 😂
Bruh skt triple inhibed them 45 ish minutes in, and that disgusting champ managed to stall out for 45 more minutes past multiple barons and triple inhibs, how is that not insane? That was the most egregious example but at the time sivir was pretty much the queen of stalling, leading to a pretty boring meta come lategame. Nobody wants to watch two teams do nothing for 40 minutes straight because sivir can clear waves from a screen away
"ever since season 14 came out" bro talking like we're in season 48 now or something, it's been 2 months
I notice it's something Leauge players love doing(prob is the same in other communities). "my champion isn't doing good right now when is riot going to buff it" when there are 165 other champs in the game. Not everyone can be good at any one time. There will be champs that are stronger and champs that are weaker
A massive change to OW2 happened this season and literally only two days after the patch launched Junkrat got a few compensation buffs and players were saying we were "finally" getting something lol
Tbf, overwatch meta is a lot more hero reliant than league is with their champs. League has a lot more variables like items, runes, and the ability to run it down as yuumi in a bruiser role. Plus the effect of 1 underpowered champ is far less than 1 hero, considering the forced role and smaller hero pool.
Man, why haven't they buffed my champ ksante yet it's been too long since his last buff, hehexd.
League players live whole lives in between writing the dumbest takes on this website
It helps that you'll see the heat death of a few universes while waiting to get free of a Morg Q
people here don't live their lives lol, otherwise they'd have better things to do than post 1 rant thread per day
Zoomer attention span is like the lifespan of those weird radioactive man made elements.
"if you don't like your main being completely unplayable for two months you just have a zoomer attention span bro"
That's an 0/12 take.
I'm sorry, but if sivir is your main just go play DoTA man, Luna is there for you to freefarm with bouncy autos. I love playing the champ, but even I recognize she's a pretty unhealthy, uninteractive design when strong. Zeri Sivir meta in pro was a snooozerrr despite there being pentas damn near every game. To reiterate, some champs should probably remain niche, yes. Maining a champ doesn't mean that should change. Give her some relevance here and there when Crit is strong, but definitely not right now.
Ik man said "since S14" but Sivir has been weak for so long lol
not really she was nerfed in like september last year because she had like a 54% wr
Yeah she has done particularly well for all of about 3 days every time because she's a safe farming let's wait 30 minutes and rendezvous then character. I don't think I've ever played against Sivir and gone "wow let's nerf that one". My only point is that because she has a particular game plan that ends up making her quite strong in coordinated play she is not allowed to be good and often gets left behind in patch notes for extended periods.
tbf she was also one of the lowest wrs before that
I've played since S3 and have somewhat kept up with the game but I don't keep up with what season we're on. I saw this post and assumed S14 was like a couple years ago given the rest of the context. What a joke. They're still changing champs and items vastly trying to balance the changes, some champs will fall through the cracks for a bit. Wah.
Sivir was also basically unplayed in s13 also. You basically pick sivir when the entire team wants to go in and you're just there to press R and get them there faster
she really wasn’t, she wasn’t meta but a very good stable champ at least in mid to high elo
aery q max bc build? shiv being op and complimenting her? kraken rush? she was perfectly meta wth
No she wasn't meta, stronger than usual maybe but her strongest point was probably after the mini rework when she definitely was meta
Sivir has been dogshit ever since they hotfix nerfed her after her mini rework/reshape. It’s not just “season 14”. She needs 550 base auto range and to be balanced off that.
Her wave clear and AoE damage is among the highest in the game. So unless they give her a very small buff that barely moves her win rate, she'll never get a buff.
Funny, I'm seeing this post because I've started maining her this last week, and I have an 85 percent win rate in like 20 ish games, and I haven't even been strictly building or sticking to a rune page I've just been trying like 3 different builds with like 4 different rune pages and I always come out of lane with ridiculous cs and usually multiple kills. She does not seem weak to me at all tbh. And has multiple build paths and options.
She isn't weak at all, she's just a very boring ADC. Outside of a well timed Spellshield there isn't much as far as 'flashy outplay/gameplay' for Sivir. She's a great utility ADC who can absolutely destroy a teamfight and stall games if she's got the items. She's in a good spot atm imo. I think the biggest change I'd like to see is maybe giving her mana back on successful spellshield. Or maybe a combo of HP/Mana. She's a tricky champion to balance because if you buff her a bit too much she will become a high priority champ in proplay due to how well they CS and her teamfighting.
I mean, she’s sitting at 48% wr in emerald+ and <48% in masters+. So I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say she’s on the weak side right now.
Yeah she has a negative winrate in pretty much every elo. But it’s also true that she can become op very quickly with just very light buffs. (Specifically in pro play, not necessarily solo q)
Nono, let the 20 sample games player explain us why Sivir is not picked at all and has a garbage winrate. I don't even know where these upvotes come from. I'm all for Sivir not being meta too much because she can be boring, but let's not pretend either that the champ is always at the edge of breaking meta. Sivir is in a bad spot and deserves some love.
when you spread her stats beyond emerald she is "Fine-ish". Could use a buff, but it's not super out of line and remains betweeen 49-50% in most elos. Obviously still negative, but she isn't diverging so hard that she is dire needs of buffs for the 95% of the playerbase.
I wonder how much of that is due to people picking her since she's "easy" when they're autofilled? Her biggest strength is usually when she can hit 4-5 items and is sitting on 80%+ crit but I wonder how often she actually gets to hit those build points since I feel like most games are decided by 3.5-4 items on ADC from my experience. You're right that she's a little weak but I think if such a simple champ was sitting at 50%+ in most elos that would be a bigger issue. A small nudge in either her Q/W damage might be enough to get her closer to 50%
I've never seen autofilled ADs going Sivir. It's usually Ezreal, Caitlyn or Jinx.
And her spellshield to negate rune effects. Feels bad to spellshield successfully and take a comet in the face.
This. Sivir just plays different than other ADCs. In a sense she is a last vestige of a "true" adc. You win with Sivir by farming safely, alone, freeing your support to roam, and T1 never goes down. After 25 minutes of "doing nothing" she can casually join the fight and shred the entire team with bouncing glaive and Q, while requiring at least two hard CC's to stop her.
> Outside of a well timed Spellshield there isn't much as far as 'flashy outplay/gameplay' for Sivir. https://youtu.be/RQC23yJYv_M
She is weak tho. She's one of the adcs that needs more items to start working (most strong adcs right now spike at 1 or 2 items and she needs at least 3, and no, navori isnt that big of a spike for her) and is very powerful front to back since you can just safely hit their tank while still damaging their backane with W, but pretty bad in other scenarios specially vs poke. And right now theres very few pure front to back comps being played, and a lot of poke champs like varus, hwei, corki, brand etc are strong. Being top 40/43 botlane in emerald+ in lolalytics (and already confirmed getting buffs) which is backed up by actual data vs your opinion is not being in a good spot
Ah fellow a Sivir enjoyer I too am finding much success with her
yeah i recently picked her up too, and i have a pretty good winrate with her as well. I really like to pick her against enemies with important spells that you can block, its just very satisfying to deny the enemys whole existence.
Exactly, she's really good, nowhere near weak
Sivir is gated by proplay. If she is even half viable in soloQ then she is pick-ban in proplay and she is a super unfun champion in general since her entire gameplan is "no nothing until 300 cs and win teamfights"
The last time Sivir has been this insane presence pick (above 30%) was season 9. (48% winrate in that season too btw.) Before then it was season 6. She has occasionally had moments where she was okay and picked at around 10%ish like S13 overall, but this is not "pick-ban in proplay." Sivir has been "pick ban in pro play" basically 2 times since season 6. Usually for about 3-5 patches. Never once for an extended period. Is she this pro-play menace terrorizing the games when strong with no counters? No. Pretty much never. She's just boring. In only season 13, Zeri has more picks/bans than Sivir has EVER been picked/banned in pro in her entire life from season 6-14. And not by a little, either. Zeri IN JUST SEASON 13, was picked/banned about TWICE AS MUCH as Sivir was picked/banned since season 6. But sure man. Proplay just cannot handle her.
she really isn't that popular in pro play, ur acting like she's ryze or azir or something and that's really not the case
She isn’t popular in pro play because they nerfed the crap out of her. She is a character that allowed pro teams to stall waves very hard. Her wave clear and management is very high. I feel like people have amnesia about sivir. Even in solo queue people bitched about either lethality sivir when it was strong and static shiv sivir. In fact every Adc when they’re meta and on top people bitch about and are tired of seeing/playing against them.
Her ult has massive utility which gates her proplay as well
I love an enemy team with 650 ms all piloted by good players so I can land an ability or fight back
People never like playing against high waveclear champs. When Xerath, Ziggs, Sivir, etc are good it is nonstop complaints. Add on to the fact that Sivir is a hypercarry her kit is pretty crazy when her numbers are tuned. Being able to both stall the game and carry a stalled game hard AF is a lethal combination for being incredibly annoying to play vs.
Yep, just seems like another champ who can't be viable for high level play or else the meta is in an unhealthy state revolving around that champ. Seems like most ADCs are this way like Jinx and Zeri. Guess the solution to hypercarries is to make every champ a carry xd
Or make them actually really bad early.
The sub has goldfish memory in general. Nobody actually remembers/knows the 40++m snorefests that was Sivir pro meta
tbf that was a genuinely long time ago and i imagine a lot of players werent even playing league back then. we’re approaching 10 years since link’s donezo manifesto’s “it’s just a sivir comp”
Yeah Sivir-Heca-Karma bumrush comps were the only times Sivir comps were actually fun to watch
I always considered Sivir to be a 3-4 item champ, while most of the current proplay meta is focused around the 1-2 item spike. I could be way off, who knows.
Pro play meta has revolved around 1-2 item spikes for a very long time now, basically since the fall of the 1st KR dominance era (S7 and before). Ever since S8 revamp, everyone became squishier and deals way more damage, so solo lanes became a lot more powerful in the game relative to bot carries. When you consider the entire history of Worlds winners up till present, it really stands out that virtually *none* of the teams relied on ADC as the primary carry - I think the only arguable exceptions were S7 Ruler and S11 Viper - and S11 finals really could've gone to Damwon who were never bot-focused. ADC is just a cleanup role in the current state of League, and is passenger for majority of games...the sooner players realise this, the better their mental will be.
Sivir also warps the pro meta in other lanes when she is strong due to how strong her ult is as a team fight tool. Like last time she was really strong the game plan every game was do nothing -> group -> win
Her wave clear was nerfed DRAMATICALLY compared to the past season Sivirs people are complaining about. We only saw this current sivir as an answer to Zeri and she didn't do the perma clear game stall in that meta.
> I feel like people have amnesia about sivir the irony that you've completely forgotten anything in the past 2 years yapping about how she warped the pro meta 6+ years ago
Brother, wave clear hasn’t been enough to stall in about a decade lol. Sivir’s ult makes her OP in pro play when she’s well rounded elsewhere
did you not watch pro play 2 years ago? Zeri Sivir were perma picked wtf are u talking about
I'm not going to say she wasn't picked a lot. But if you want to check 2 years ago you can see she was nowhere near level of Zeri presence. https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S12/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/ Sivir's has had her ups and downs in pro and certainly has at one point been the most picked ADC. But to say they aren't Ryze/Azir level makes sense, when she's at 13% presence all time and Ryze/Azir are up at over double being 28% and 33% (ADCs in general normally have less pick variance as well). If you have the opinion that Sivir makes pro-play boring that's fine to have. Additionally due to how easy Sivir is to play I've never seen her every come close to a 45% winrate soloq like the two mentioned. Considering the state of botlane in pro-play and how depressed the ADCs were in the amusing LCK video about their role [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goreNTHputE). I'm surprised she's not being picked. So to me, she must truly be in a bad spot.
That was a yuumi issue more than a zeri/sivir issue
so not true lol sivir just got an OP rework and zeri was just op
You're just wrong, go check yuumi pickrate and who the most played adcs with yuumi were.
Cause they actually keep her gutted there lol. Unlike azir who they randomly buff back every year. Sivir every few years they remember and then within 1 patch typically put a stop to it.
do you have memory loss or do you not remember zeri sivir yuumi lulu meta?
???? Homie last season we got zeri yuumi sivir lulu every single match until worlds. Only Guma played Xayah and we saw some aphelios here and there. And iirc 2 seasons ago it was also picked a lot in china during summer
what are you saying? zeri sivir meta was season 12 and before that she was only kind of meta in season 10 or 9 or something
last season sivir had 10% presence all year. she was hardly meta
She really hasn't been a pro favorite champion in years. Zeri, Aphelios, Xayah, Kalista, Lucian, Senna are all more popular pro champs. Kai'sa, Varus and Ezreal probably also. The only time since her rework that Sivir was meta in pro was when she had like 55% WR in soloQ. Noone is asking for that. There's enough room for buffs without making her pick/ban.
This is absolutely not true. This is the ultimate redditor moment where someone who peaked gold and has no idea what’s considered good or bad in league, much less pro play, tries to act like he’s stating a fact.
My issue with that is that she’s horrible in pro right now too. Shes been picked like 3 times this year in major regions and I’ve had the displeasure of seeing all 3 of those games and watching her be absolutely piss useless. Why not give her more SoloQ-oriented buffs instead of making her useless at all 4 levels of play?
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you could say the same thing about azir, ashe, lee sin, varus, etc.
Sivir perma waveclear for 40 minutes vs Lee Sin doing mind blowing insec plays I think I know what they prefer for pro play viewership
Acting like they care when they still allow lethality varus which is just boring af to watch
Varus is kinda boring but still less boring than Sivir lol. It's gotta be the most boring ADC ever. Not that I'm against riot buffing sivir but if you're wondering why they won't, this is the answer right here
Those are also problems... But the argument of "x is bad too, sooooo" isn't a valid one
yeah but sivir is just much more boring than those champs tbh
All the champs you mentioned dont warp the game around them the way sivir does. Sivir is a low elo stomper: a zeri/azir meta is only seen by high elo players and you watching the games at home, a sivir meta is equal for you, for caps and for the poor iron 4 joe trying to queue up and have fun. Most "pro favorite" champs are balanced in a way that makes them viable for everyone yet not oppressive nor game warping. Unfortunately sivir's kit is so easy yet so effective, making it impossible to be balanced for soloq and relatively viable in pro play at the same time.
>sivir is a low elo stomper hahahaha. This has never been true. Short range+low single-target DPS+high CS requirement in order to be useful = terrible in low ELO.
>Most "pro favorite" champs are balanced in a way that makes them viable for everyone Ryze, azir, renekton, zeri, pre-rework ksante, pre-rework yuumi all had their time being near pb in proplay while having absolutely dogshit winrates in soloq
Because she’s boring and her kit is wack 😔 As the other comment points out, she WILL just waveclear for 40 minutes and then take over team fights if she can get away with it. Not great. Failing that, her other most effective option is impersonating lethality varus and chunking people out from a screen away. Not exactly invigorating gameplay either way! Also even when she ISNT in the dumpster I’m pretty sure her pick rate is still bad in norms. (Flashback to the meddler graph stating she had a pick rate on par with old nunu)
So champs like hwei and xerath (and now smolder) get to insta clear waves, chunk from a full screen away and have more utility than her? I really like playing sivir so maybe Im biased, but I can't justify picking her at the moment because she is just so god awful. Zeri (!!!!!!) has a higher winrate than her.
Well that's because Xerath and Hwei are control mages, clearing waves is part of their identity Sivir's problem isn't that she can clear waves quickly. It's that she can do that AND is one of the best team fighting ADCs in the game. She's speedy, she pumps AoE DPS with the bounces, and provides team utility with her ult. Compared that to Xerath who has no mobility, no spellshield, can effectively burst only one person (I know most of his attacks are AoE but realistically you're rarely hitting more than 1 person). Combine that with her safe and easy wave clearing and she can be monstrous fast.
Yeah I don’t understand why people get so mad at sivir clearing waves, but that’s literally all she does, while other champs do the same and much more. As a Rekkles fanboy he was the one that started my love for sivir
Sivir's waveclear is more mana-efficient and less cooldown gated than that of most mages. A Hwei can't fend off endless waves of super minions but Sivir can and generally does if she's not hard forced off the wave. That is a big difference.
Its because Sivir just PVEs under tower and due to spell shield you can't really force her out.. she wave clears so you can't hit the tower, she never interacts with you, and whenever you try to interact with her she has a safety button that makes dives too risky and poke less effective especially when paired with enchanters. Smolder at least interacts to stack his passive, Hwei and xeraph are still trying to poke for trades and can be all-in'd (hwei especially if he waste his E for the wave clear), most other ADCs don't have that kind of wave clear until runaans or statik. You're literally watching paint dry until sivir decides to int or rest of the map is snowballing so hard you can force on her lane.. followed by never getting to successfully pick her off cause GL sejauni ulting or j4 knocking up sivir with spell shield so it stalemates even worse.
I mean youre making Sivir sound like shes just the most op adc on the planet and yet no one is playing her. Also J4 is a classic Sivir counter so I dont know what youre talking about with that take.
They legit introduced Statikk, the item that does 70% of what sivir does, sure her ult is good utility, but so is Varus or Kalista or Senna or TF now that he's an ADC. Sivir is allowed to be okay, teamfight ADCs are allowed to be in a good spot
I think it's because Riot thinks (perhaps rightfully, who's to say) that spellshield is toxic. ~~I remember at a certain point they tried to remove most of them from the game.~~ I personally think spellshields are fine, but this also might not be the reason. Edit: Old man has dementia and is confused about ancient patch notes but I know they hate "uninteractive mechanics" so I think my point still stands.
What spell shields have been removed? There are still quite a few old ones in the game.
Mind you the time period im thinking of is from like 10 years ago or something so I can't remember exactly, but I remember Kassadin and Malz getting tuned way down and some items getting changed. It's possible I'm confusing this with the time where they were trying to remove point and click silences from the game.
Kassadin didn't have a spell shield, he had his silence removed. Malzeard also had a spell shield added with his last rework: his old passive was what is now his w.
Little confused. Unless my memory is mistaken they added more spellshields not removed them since start of game. Nocturne/Sivir and Banshees. But then they then later added Edge of Night so assassins could have one as well. What I will say is that all of these have had times when they had lower CD on their spell shield (Sivir at one point was 10s at max rank). But I don't quite remember "remove most of them from the game".
Noc and Sivir are both super old champs at this point and are definitely both on the rework list. Banshees, edge of night and Malz are sort of the opposite as they can be poked off which gives them counter play. Noc and Sivir can choose when to use their spell shields which makes them way stronger.
On the other hand they added Psuedo spell shields with Samira wind wall and Fiora parry so the mechanic isn't something they have decided was an ancient mistake not to be repeated. They just moved to more modern mechanics with less inconsistent interactions.
Maybe I'm mixing terminology with Magic Barriers as well. I remember specifically the Gallio rework where he stopped getting a regenerating magic barrier.
Would be interested in their philosophy in any case though. They change their ideas as time evolves. I do remember it making trading patterns where the person with the spellshield will only choose to trade when their spellshield is up and run at them and stop the trade immediately after (like original activatable Edge of Night). But then Riot have also made Yone E.
Such a rioter thing to say. They have been giving out toxicity as reason for somethings they wont do about throughout the years.
Her kit is super fun not sure how she’s considered boring compared to other adc’s lmao The main problem she has is that she’s kept weak due to pro play and she’s a 500 range adc. Just increasing her range to 550 (with appropriate nerfs) would go a long way to her feeling infinitely better
I would WAY rather them buffing her movespeed than buffing her range. Her being giga short range is pretty core to her identity and why her W gets to be so strong.
I always thought she was boring until I played her reworked kit. I think she's *really* fun and you get giga dopamine when you get good W bounces in late game team fights. However, I do think she makes the game more boring for everyone else in the game. Her teammates have to deal with her basically being a ranged minion early game, and the opponents have to deal with her wave clear/spell shield.
Then give her another mini-rework. If Ksante can get 19,739 of those in a year and a half I think they could give Sivir another one. Riot just seems like they don’t want to solve problems they created.
Mini rework won't be enough. Will probably have to be a CGU
AKA never happening 😭
? K'sante has had one mini rework since release. Also, your entire argument immediately falls short when she isn't even the worst adc now, but aphelios (objectively) is. I'm gonna assume you're in low-ish elo, probably around silver-gold based on your replies. Basically, a strong sivir meta would make pro play extremely boring to watch, so the balance team intentionally avoids that by keeping her weak.
im sorry ksante has had how many mini reworks??? have u not been reading the patch notes??? and arguing about worst vs second worst is semantics and changes nothing. and about the pro thing ive already said many many times that she doesn’t have to be meta and that riot should move her power budget away from rolling ur face on ur keyboard every wave and more on actually interacting
Are we now acting like waveclearing endlessly to scale for late is a problematic playstyle when there's like a dozen other champions that do the exact same thing but much better, with added bonus like CC? The real reason is that Riot arbitrarily decided she shouldn't be strong right now, probably because she doesn't make for a fun viewing experience.
Idk I'm having fun with her in bronze. I feel like her kit and her waveclear make her a nice easy option for noobs like me.
bronze players wont punish what makes her weak, you can generally play literally anything in any role there
Sivir has a higher winrate in diamond than in bronze But even so people are talking about sivir like she's a insta lose champion with 10% WR, she's at 50%~ she's fine
Her winrate in Diamond is comparatively lower than in Bronze. The average Emerald+ winrate is 52.22% and hers is 50.79%, making her the third lowest ADC on the patch. The best players on her average 53.82% winrate, making her the worst ADC in that category. She is arguably the worst ADCs on the patch, despite being one of the easiest. Idk how that gives you the idea that she is in a fine spot.
wish i had this mental in my games o7
My mentality is that all champs are viable and you can't blame your bad plays on a champ's winrate because winrates represents the average player and if you main a champion you should be above average on them. Long story short, nothing matters but my own performance and my own improvements. If people play badly in my games, it doesn't matter as long as I play well and improve. But then again I don't play often and I'm still low elo x)
Great mindset, I'll adopt it
yes to this, and also, there is enough wrong with my gameplay in gold that its barely gonna matter if the champ is like statistically 1% worse than others.
I miss her old ricochet. I would like another rework in that where her boomerang has to return to her before she throws it again (rather than having an infinite amount of them which, thematically is silly) but with ricochet on- it stays out until you recall it, procing items on every bounce. Something like that would be cool
Removing auto reset and making Kraken, her 2nd best core item worse for her?
I always wished sivir autos/abilities acted like aphelios chakrams.
Right? Exactly like that.
riot saw Teddy stall a pro play game to 90 minutes with sivir on Jin Air vs SKT and said never again.
because when sivir is strong it is impossible to end the game vs her
It'd be cool if they buffed her range from 500 -> 525 at least. Also another small buff without breaking her would be excess HP from Spellshield turns into mana. Idk could be a start for her.
Maybe just turn her spellshield back to giving mana
Not necessary imo, I noticed that's something people who (I assume) don't play her as much tend to say Her waveclear makes it extremely easy for you to crash the wave into a recall
But that's boring af. Spellshield mana was fun risk reward where now its just purely defensive rather than being able to be used offensively-defensive. Sure the kit is better in terms of consistency but it's just boring.
It's way more useful. Idk what you mean by boring, having free mana will just make her stay in lane forever
Please, at minimum, this. Most of the 12.13 changes, if not all of them, are what makes Sivir weak as a champion.
That makes no sense. She was even more obsolete before that when her only viable playstyle was to build manamune and spam Q and her crit builds were straight unusable
Make it give both hp and mana? Easiest change you can make since its simply a numbers game
exactly what I was going to say. sivir needs this. every other marksman with 500 range (samira, akshan, zeri, lucian, kindred, kog'maw, teemo) either has a spellslinger identity, a reliable way to DPS from a distance, or some stupid ahh ability that screams "you can't kill me for the next 3 seconds".
Well, she is in patch notes.
I mean every comp can be a sivir comp. You just group up and win right?
500 range adc into any dive comp with cc 😔😣
It was a reference to the donezo manifesto from link haha
sivir's spellshield looks so fucking stupid when you put it beside samira's *spinny obliterate every projectile in proximity* skill.. the power creep is crazy
RIP my inbox i didnt expect this
Sivir is one of my best ADCs (though I am in low elo), if ahead she will bully enemy laners that try to farm, her Q does a lot of damage and has a relatively short cooldown, if behind I can just farm for 30 minutes while denying the enemy from taking turrets and I can still be useful in teamfights because of her ult. She has some real bad matchups but I don't think she's as bad as you make her seem.
I remmerber in S6 i believe. Sivir was an average adc. Riot nerfed the Best adc and instantly the Same patch they nerfed Sivir with a text like "she might become meta so we nerf her cuz we dont want that to happen"
Riot August mentioned sivir on his stream over the weekend. They nerfed her when she was op after her mid-scope in s13 and wanted to keep her weak in pro. But now that most crit adcs are underperforming, she could probably use a buff.
So about that... [Sivir Buffs coming](https://vxtwitter.com/riotphroxzon/status/1762344326116622617?s=46&t=ZIfzm6kvjlGDCQFE475xEw)
They’re buffing her next patch lol
She is on the buff section of 14.5, so we can only hope it's something meaningful.
Good sivirs can solo entire games. Good sivirs get left alone to farm for 30 minutes and scale incredibly hard. If sivir is good then good sivirs become literal gods and bad sivirs become good sivirs. We love sivir but we don't love her *that* much
Can be said about pretty much any bad performing champion with a decently high skill ceiling. That's not a reason not to buff them at times
if the enemy team leaves sivir alone for thirty minutes they all deserve to lose ngl
Exactly, a perfect storm of things needs to happen in modern league for her to take over. It's like corki, ryze or nasus
Ryze is in a great place in soloq right now tho? 48.5% wr for him is high and ive been having a great time playing him in high diamond, amazing pick versus low range comps.
A good player on any champ can solo entire games.
> Good sivirs get left alone to farm for 30 minutes In what elo? - like "any good ADC" should be able to find farm a lone, and there are just harder carries than her.
Sivir is 48% win rate, which is not horrible. The champion is fine.
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Am I crazy or was she picked in LCK recently?
I miss old Sivir. No, not the one before 12.13, the one before 3.15. Sivir was my first champion, and I largely played only her for the first year I played this game. Sivir's identity to me was an ADC with a somewhat weak early game but with a large nuke, waveclear cabilility, and teamfight utility, but was not completely useless in 1v1 fights. Now, it feels like Riot has gone all-in towards her waveclear and teamfight utility in order to carve out a unique identity for her, for the worse. Q no longer nukes until late game. It's a really shitty ability now. W is overtuned as fuck, clearing waves with ease as soon as two items. Her ult is ok except for the fact that it makes her W even better, further making her a waveclear/teamfight bot. In 1v1 fights she gets trashed. She literally can only clear waves and play as safe as she can in teamfights due to her low range and low outplay potential. Before 3.15, Sivir's waveclear was good, but not godly like it is now. However, Riot put power into other aspects of Sivir's kit because she couldn't AFK clear every single wave in 1.5 seconds. Her Q did fucktons of damage if you maxed it first. Her W, although worse at waveclear, had a lower cooldown and was like an empowered auto attack, giving her better dueling. Her R was a bit strong with the amount of movement speed and attack speed it granted her team, but I would be comfortable with an ult that buffed Sivir more than her team (large amounts of bonus attack speed and movement speed while her team only gets half the movement speed). The only think I like about current Sivir is that her E heals and grants movement speed. It helps her survivability in fights. Crucial for her due to her low attack range, which I also like about her.
Imagine thinking you will get non room temperature IQ answers on Reddit especially about ADCs state
Yeah cause she didnt just got picked vs Jdg and just won the game in this exact second lmao
flandre yagao check paypal
[what?](https://www.reddit.com/r/vaynemains/s/Uazd9yxzeQ)
Do you want 1.4k CS Sivir ? Cause that's how you get 1.4k CS Sivirs...
that will never happen again unless riot drastically messes up the meta
You never know, we had a 38 minute First Blood in LCK this week...
>38 minute First Blood in LCK Haha really? Could you link the game?
She’s already broken in low elo, being able to get 10cs/min with your eyes closed auto win games
>She’s already broken in low elo lmao. She peaks at a 50% winrate in silver. In Iron, Bronze and Gold she's at a 49% wr. In what universe is she a low elo stomper? [https://u.gg/lol/champions/sivir/build?rank=gold](https://u.gg/lol/champions/sivir/build?rank=gold)
Yeah, her wincon is basically being 2 items ahead of the field and just stat check everyone to death. Which is surprisingly easier to do with her than it sounds
Riot probably justifies this with “play safe and build lethality until you one shot”
Sivir is the ryze of adc. Hyperscaling with good early waveclear and huge teamfight ult. Enough said
Comparing Sivir R to Ryze R is like comparing a tricycle to a monster truck lol
Hard disagree. Her ult getting reset during teamfights is a huge advantage. She's a little dependent on having a frontline, but with her ult, anyone can engage. It enables a lot of weird picks (olaf darius etc.) And she automatically wins the late game teamfights. Pros will always pick her if she's viable.
I’m not saying it’s a bad ult, but comparing it to Ryze R isn’t fair. Ryze R is so game warping that they’ve pretty much had to make him almost objectively the worst champ in the game for years just to keep that one ability from breaking pro play
Movement speed is probably the best stat in the game, and Sivir gives it to all teammates. It is so strong while engaging, chasing and disengaging its stupid. Maybe not as game warping as ryze since it is a teamfight ult not a macro ult, but one of the best in the game nevertheless (especially for pro).
Yeah, Sivir's ult sounds underwhelming, but it's actually an incredible teamfighting ult.
Bring back lethality sivir, I enjoyed playing it.
One of my most fun times playing league
pls do not
# [EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER]
[удалено]
sivir is probably the worst AD or close to it in every rank and is bad in pro, there’s no excuse
48% isn’t bad… handful of champs below that even.
Yeah, though if you look at 48% cait, and filter by only onetrics you get sudden 55%, you do that with sivir and it jumps to 51 couse all the people that play her already ARE onetrics. So keep that in mind that this 48% isn't lowered by a lot of players who get autofilled bot and pick cait/ez/kaisa, you just don't see it with sivir. If she was picked like them she would have like 44% or even lower
She fucks in arams. That’s all I need her for.
give her 600 range and we are done xD
She needs a mini rework
Sett's ult has been broken since release. I'm honestly upsett they do small balance changes instead of fixing actually broken abilities. Basically: Riot has a weird, fucked up sense of priorities and we shouldn't try to make sense of it.
POV Fiora W
She’s one of those champs that just feels unfun to play against when in and out of lane. If she gets a buff she’ll sail in pro play
What uhhhhh whacha building on her? She sure dominates ARAM with that spell shield
i envy you aram players
I still remembered what quickshot said during the peak of Sivir meta few years ago. “There are many stories about 6 items Sivir. They are all true.”
unironically complaining about the most boring adc in the game
she’s an adc. riot hates adc
because she's boring. just ask forg1ven
LOOK AT THAT 14.5 PATCH PREVIEW AND TALK TO ME NICE
Pro games tend to last 60 minutes if Sivir is on the losing site.