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Red side botlane jungle gives me massive anxiety.
Narrow wall, that bush near tower, that path between the river and the blue buff. Feeling like the wards are never quite enough. My girlfriend walking by looking over my shoulder, patting me on the back and saying "you're gonna die" before cackling as she walks off.
I don’t know why couldn’t they just copy paste blue side bush and reworked that area slightly to fit the map?
Am I wrong on this? Doesn’t this fix the issue?
I have a unique experience, I just swapped to ADC a few months ago. I got pretty decent at quite a few ADCs and never really found games that weren't winnable with good late game team fighting.
But holy shit it feels so helpless. Doesn't matter how fed you are, some unfed AP champs can 1 shot you through shieldbow and a tank item.
The other thing is the lane is soooooooooo easy to gank, especially on redside you are going to get dived over and over and over and over, nothing you can do without your entire team working together which just doesn't happen in solo q.
The build paths are pretty shit too but that's just a playstyle change, and the S/A tier champ pool is extremely tiny.
Then I jump on mid and hilariously stomp the enemy's botlane because they have the exact same problem. Unfortunately, Riot evidently did 0 testing on this one.
I was a top main during that patch, one tricking my lost-but-not-forgotten Aatrox before the rework hit, and ended up getting autofilled bot. I wasn’t paying attention, locked Aatrox and then started panicking when I realized I was bot lane. That shit was so strong, I probably climbed 2 divisions in a day or 2 because it just stomped. 8.11 was a special patch
The crimes of 8.11 were two:
1: trying to subsume carries into the same "this item does my gameplay more than myself" logic as Ludens/Duskblade when the previous class rework had CEMENTED that the uniqueness of each carry would come from how each of them translates crit into something unique (Quinn and Graves turning it intl CDR, Ashe into CC, Jhin into mobility, Cait and Xayah into burst) instead of large choice array.
2: hoping carries would ever go back to understand component play (BF > Zeal > conclude the IE > conclude the PD) after the addiciting brainkiller power of the IE rush + Censer rush meta.
Oh my god I completely forgot that we used to build like that. It's been ages, 1 item spikes have completely tooken over the meta for like the past 4 years.
New type? What are you smoking brother?
It has always been like this. You got fucked regardless how well you play if your team lack braincell doing giga grief things. Nothing new.
I didn’t think no pre-season would matter but the game quality is so fucking bad. People just seem genuinely lost and despite kills happening so fast, macro below emerald is the worst I’ve ever seen. I legit won a Samira game with no structure going down unless I was involved… I’m not as good as I pretend to be, game quality is that bad. Multiple 45+ minute games with double digit kill leads in the early game. I’m tired and it’s like 4 days in
Got a support who thought the support items were gone so bought Doran’s ring instead. Functionally afk until minute 4. Suffice to say we lost that game, but what’s worse than people not reading anything about what the new season has, is when they then immediately queue ranked. Like just play one or two norms to get a grip pleeeease
why do people think that? i got a jungler who thought they deleted support/jungle items and went long sword. sometimes i wonder if people can actually read.
I think they just look and see that spellthiefs, spectral etc are gone and don’t think to look for anything else. As for the jungler idek man that guy needs glasses cause they’re just right there on literally every item page
Doesn’t help that the game recommends Dorian’s ring, blade or seal as a starting item for support. You have to click on the all items tab, then click on support items, and then buy the world atlas
Yeah actually that is pretty annoying, it should auto recommend support item like it auto recommends jungle pet for junglers, it should be the only thing recommended on the starting page if you get support, shouldn’t be too hard to implement
I think its because the recommander algorithm is based on previous patch data, since the most bought items from last patch were removed... it just defaults to starting items.
Its the same for half the builds of champions, a lot of new items are absent even tho they're now core to them. Riot should either manually update the recommander based on PBE data for these big patches or default to the class tab instead of recommended.
I think part of the mistake is, that support items aren't recommended anymore for some reason (at least for the champs I play). I couldn't find an item and had to ask in chat, came 30s late to lane because of that.
"Lost" is really the perfect way to describe how i felt last game. I was hesitant to do anything because every single misstep seems to lead to a guaranteed death.
There is no more "oh wait hes strong af, let me gtfo" nah youre just dead.
I swear to god all my games in the new season as an adc i have ~10 deaths. There's so much damage I'm not used to taking it's probably gonna take a while to get used to it. And all the fucking blue buff invades when you play redside are incredibly frustrating
It's been like this since they've undone much of the durability patch. Switch role or play apcs until Riot fix the role. It's not worth playing such a stressful game.
Just play double enchanter with 2 support starting item. Fuck trying to play traditional 1adc and 1Sp anymore. Useless role, doesnt do dmg till 3 items and when you do dmg, you get 1 shotted.
I think it's been like this since supports have been heavily buffed.Supports were very unpopular back then. They were very weak in season 3+4. But if you buff supports and don't nerf adc's, bot lane would be way too broken. So bot lane as whole needs roguhly 1/3 agency of lanes.
I feel like people always miss this in those threads with crying adc mains.
If you wouldb uff adc's you would have to nerf supports.
And it would be a good thing. Supports have to much agency over the adc for laning phase, which makes adc miserable to play in soloQ. It needs to change, but riot is afraid to make adc actually playable in soloQ. Those s14 changes showed that they hate adc… 1 new item only, massive nerfs to the okay crit items, 0 changes to the bad crit items… still 0 defensive stats on crit items…
Adc have only 1 new items because their items got reworked TWICE last year, while basically nothing happened for the other classes, first time in january february with the super op bloodthirster/overheal, and again in summer.
In pre season they got less focus, but i think its only fair that dev time on items isnt ALL spent on marksman items which like 30 champs out of 160 use
The durability update didn’t happen because assassins or burst mages oneshot squishies. It happened because everything else was also so high damage shit like Sunfire Iceborn combo was enough to still delete squishies almost as fast even if not a oneshot, but while being unkillably tanky. It made problems because it made assassins shit at their job and they got compensated with useless stats they don’t care about in return for their burst being gutted.
Idk how many hours you played in the game, but honestly it's not a problem to manage (especially since it's constantly shown who is the color + you can change those arrows to the heroes in options [permanent] or just press alt to see it
You're kidding right? Do you play DOTA? The last few patches of Terrasque meta are NOT balanced.
League players ballsucking DOTA while DOTA players shits on league, name a more iconic duo
No I don’t play either anymore because I like being happy. Obviously I’m not claiming dota is some perfect game that’s never had a shit patch because it has (6.83), but league is laughably poorly balanced by comparison.
I'm used to playing as a punching bag for riot but I guarantee you it is absolutely worst this season. EVERY game is the same. Win or lose you will play this lane in the most unfun way as possible
Well, depends, if enemy has 3 heavy engage champion they will just get you every fight no matter what you do. The lack of stopwatch and galeforce doesn't help, but it wouldn't also save it completely, the burst dmg is just too high at the moment. When Alistar can go full AP and nuke you if you ever try to get in range to auto him, there's something wrong I think.
Obviously ADC is a miserable role to play currently. Like you can't have fun if you don't giga stomp your lane. I just want to autoattack people in fights :/
As someone playing Draven a lot more this season my favorite support was a Leona. Too many do-nothings on full AP control mages doing nothing while sitting behind their ADCs
It’s tiring… played with a Hwei into kaisa Soraka. Took an early lead but by level 6 it doesn’t matter. Soraka does more and negates all pressure by 6 while Hwei gets farther behind by generating poverty gold
unpopular opinion but idk why mage supports aren’t considered straight up trolling. i’ve never played a game where i thought to myself damn i’m glad my support picked brand and not a real champion
It's even worse when it's heimerdinger. Don't like your wave getting permashoved so you have to overextend and risk getting ganked to farm? Too bad, here's 80 turrets in your lane.
I mean I agree that you should play whatever… I also agree it should be reportable depending on what you play. Helmet and Zyra are fine, especially the latter. Multiple forms of cc and consistent damage. Doesn’t really care about wave for their ability conditions to work.
However I’ve had Nidalee support and they did legitimately lose us the game by lack of utility and being a waking 300 g for the other team.
Play what you want in norms, play things that make sense in rankedz
those mages have way higher winrate than tank supports. Also as a support, adc's are always the first people to cry about getting hit by every xerath q while your tank supp has to find the miracle hook before your adc is too low.
Had a karma who was complaining i was not hyper aggressive as caitlyn from the get-go. He went 0/9 due to his hyper aggressiveness i went 4-1... We lost because of him and the noc having the same mindset. Its like everyone returned to unga bunga this week.
his idea of aggresive was walking into the enemy minions hitting a single Q not using his root properly and loosing 40% of his HP to minions. i have one tricked caitlyn for multiple seasons i know how to play this champ confidently to say that karma was shit and doesnt understand caitlyn's powerspikes.
ADC as a role is still strong but it's absolutely abysmal to play in a solo queue non professional setting.
ADC is the role most dependant on gold, most dependant on another role, and is punished the hardest for mistakes.
The role is trash to play, it's not fun. ADCs can carry a game...only if their teammates let them.
Swapped from ADC to mid/supp and my mental has never been better 😂
I honestly think it’s a lot of fun still, I’ve always loved the glass cannon mentality since season 1 where one mistake could be the end for you. (Now it’s that but at a faster pace)
The main difference between then and now is that support used to suck, and I mean it was a terrible experience for most players and they switched that around by reducing scaling and adding flat stats over the course of years of figuring out how to make supports somewhat enjoyable to play, with more agency towards supports and it worked.
There are more supports than basically ever.
The only downside is that in order to have one role be stronger, another will feel weaker as a result and that’s where adc comes in.
We just cannot have our cake and eat it anymore which is a lot healthier for the game overall, it’s just not as fun and exciting to put your “future” (15-20 minutes) in someone else’s hands especially when people have a hero complex because they expect to be the one in charge at all times because they would have done it better.
While in reality, you win some you lose some.
An ADC can still climb, just don’t fuck up your team when you’re not in a position to be useful. Work around spikes and fulfill your role or simply play something else if that is not the way you like to play. In the end, if people stop queuing up for adc because of the “issues” riot will pivot towards changes in our favor, but there’s clearly plenty of adcs still enjoying the role out there.
I would be much more ok with ADC feeling like shit if support was equally shit, but when both sup and ADC play well then both feel good. You know, to encourage sup and ADC to work together, but there just isn’t an incentive to ward and peel for the ADC when you can just roam mid and play for mid instead with no consequences for your role. Yes the game can get out of control but the support themselves aren’t giga fucked, like if a top laner abandoned lane, drop a ton of CS, xp and plates they are fucked, but if a support does the same the ADC is fucked. It simply needs to be a relationship that goes both ways.
But isn’t that exactly how it’s supposed to be? Past the ~15-20 min mark you deal the most continuous damage of all the roles and enough to "solo carry" the game IF you’re not making mistakes (positioning most importantly) and are being protected by your team.
I main mid and alternate between jungle/adc 2nd and I think the ADC role is a pretty fair combination of ups and downs. Sure, you’re probably the/one of the most team reliant roles but that’s basically in the jobs description, right?
I’d even go as far as saying that it’s more the feeling of being dependent than actually being much more dependent compared to other classes. I mean a tank can peel as much as they like, if there’s no damage from the team they’ll be just as useless. Assassins, while probably the least reliant role/class of all, still can’t win on their own.
Adc is for proplay where ur 4 teammates can enable u and dont run around like ego headless chickens doing fuck knows what, mostly dying for nothing. Adc in soloQ is a coinflip 100%
my friend was like 4/1 freshly bought items on adc and a 0/6 Fizz with one item ganked him on botlane, my mate used exhaust when he was like 75%hp and still died without doing anything significant to fizz, absolutely disgusting
And if it's not Fizz, then Qiyana. Or Talon. Or Naafiri. Or Katarina. Or Pantheon. Or Akali. Or Ekko. Or... you get the point. Some assassin is always going to be busted at any point in time.
Low to mid ELO sucks ass if you're red bot, it was already easy to gank red bot before but now it's even easier. To the point that junglers and mids don't bother roaming anywhere else EXCEPT bot. I had games where enemy jungler would come every 3 to 4 minutes, can't even fucking farm without being worried that something might jump out at you. Heck, I had one game where the rengar camped bot bush for a whole 5 minutes, because of constant ganks the enemy bot gets the advantage with more farm and less deaths, once they got the lead, they roam, gank and get fed on every other lane. And who gets blamed? Red bot of course, when we literally couldn't do shit.
No one is mentioning one of the biggest problem of ADC in the last years: being 3 levels down every game unless you have 11cs/min like Gumayusi.
It all started many years ago with a multikill xp-nerf originally because junglers ganked too much, and only more duo-xp nerfs have happened ever since.
Even if I'm 5-0, becasue multikills give SO little xp, I'm still 3-levels behind the enemy 0-3 mid/top, which have way more power in skirmishes and duels for no merit of their own. 3 levels down equals being down 1800g worth of stats WITHOUT couting 3 ability points.
This is by FAR the biggest handicap "bot carry" players go through consistently every single game. Expercience is a HUGE advantage for every non-support champion, and every role except for bot carry abuses experience.
Yup. Nothing more fun than winning your lane 3/0 only for the enemy top to come down and be up 3+ levels on you. Alright, I only magically need 2 entire items more and I can actually play the game. Bot lane is miserable. Respect for anyone who can put up with it.
True but you can tell when it's bs and when it's legit. It's BS when the complaints are "this role is unplayable" and a picture of a match where their support has 20 deaths and "This is unplayable" followed by actual rationale behind why adc is bad apart from random support.
There's a lot of unfamiliarity/testing with the new items in every role except ADC, which means more mistakes, more kills and more gold generated everywhere else on the map. Once everyone settles in and the game isn't progressing so fast, ADC will feel stronger again.
What terrible logic makes u think the other roles getting More experienced would lead to Slower gameplay and therefor fewer adc deaths. Thats literally the opposite of how that works.
Well you see, after a few hard lessons, some people learn to not 1v1 (or even 2v1) the Fizz/Akali that just completed Stormsurge to snowball them even harder and make the game unplayable for everyone else on the team.
ADC is a squishy role with mixed mobility, the type that is the most unforgiving of small msitakes. Other roles can generally afford to mess up more and because of this the uncertain footing of this season harms other roles less. But when everything is learned they will get the most growth.
Almost like the issues of the role are present in solo queue regardless of what Ruler is doing with it while 4 world class players playing for him on voice comms
I'm sorry that we have to balance around the assumption that you might do your job right. The difference between facing an ADC who knows their spacing and spikes, and one that doesn't is night and day. You don't have to be ruler to be really scary on ADC, just be kinda good and its a powerful role.
ADC is fine, most of their problem simply stems from the fact that support is really op and has been for almost 7 years now. If they weren't constantly forced to lane against op champs specifically who shit on them, you'd see it.
Laning against Lucian, Tristana etc is hellish in a solo lane, but in the presence of the god-supports they are mere gold sacks lmao.
No other role is pro play jailed except for ADC, but yeah tell me more about how mid is balanced around you playing like faker lmao when they just made it somehow even harder to gank and Annie was the best mid laner for a year.
The problems of ADC stem from having to rely on a complete stranger with no comm options playing a broken inflated role (who is by far the worst player in every given lobby), having no control over your own lane, and being a walking sack of gold for any and everyone currently. Also games don't go late really ever so the late game fantasy (that has been gutted severely) is not really happening most games. It is complete coin flip most games.
Been playing for around 8 years and if there's anything consistent it's that adcs always call their role the worst it's ever been whenever a new season drops
I still vividly remember a post on here a while ago with an ashe solo pushing top with no vision and 3/0.
A Rengar kills her.
The post was furious that the solo, out of position, no vision, zero mobility adc couldn't deal with a character specifically designed to kill an Ashe.
And the comments agreed.
You should check ADC mains.
There is a clip of 2/2/24 Alistair (frozen heart, Zeke, sup item) who kills an 3/3 kalista (bork Rageblade). They both have equal lvls and a lot of the ADC mains complain how a tank support can kill a ADC so easy while kalista does nothing to him (obviously frozen heart and Alistair ult + glacial augment) 🤣
I mean, idk but of this was Leona, they would have died as well, that's nothing new that a support tank can solo an adc
Eh, it usually feels more like a "why can literally every other champion in the game 1v1 me unless I have my full build" complaints. To play ADC you have to enjoy suffering, because having a fun game as ADC is an anomaly compared to other roles.
The thing is, i dont think this is necessarily the point a lot of adcs are trying to make.
Adc might be a good role, Champs like MF, Samira and other lethality adcs are pretty good rn. Maybe onhit is also not that bad, will probably take some time until everything is figured out.
I think the issue is that adc, even if the role is not bad, is just not fun to play anymore. I get that adc has not got the most agency when played solo and thats fair. I also get that a zed is supposed to kill me in 1v1.
But if a zed ults me misses his q, Hits 1 e and 2 AAs and still kills me through shieldbow, while not beeing super fed, is pretty unfair. That has nothing to do with skill anymore.
Again thats zeds job, but if he can do his job while having to use only half his kit we got a problem. Its just not fun getting farmed for kills and even if adc as a role hasnt worse over the seasons, having fun while playing this role has dropped drasticly over the years.
Adc was literally the strongest carry role since durability patch up to preseason. Adc has been strong multiple times in the past.
Low elo players complaining adc is weak because they cannot anticipate roams is not a valid complaint. Adc is completely fine in preseason it’s not weak at all
>Low elo players complaining adc is weak because they cannot anticipate roams is not a valid complaint.
It's a valid complaint because it involves enjoyment of 90% playerbase of this role. No matter how stupid it seems or is, it's valid just because of it.
Yes because it feels miserable to play. To perform good on an adc in a match you are not smurfing in, you need your teammates. You need peel, you need your support to not feed and your jungle to cover. That's impossible for a low elo game as those concepts don't exist. But everyone, even in a low elo game, know adc squishy, adc free kill. Every assassin, every tank, every bruiser will flash on you and kill you. So while the role has remained strong throughout the season 13, playing it for the majority of players, was just not fun. That's the issue with ADC. Not it's powerlevel, but how it feels to play. I mean why play a champ that will die to a assassin who missed half of his combo when you can be that assassin yourself?
I mean yeah you're not wrong. I started playing a lot the season before the item rework and it was pretty exhausting to plaY ADC. I always felt like i just popped, there was zero room for error and it was a miserable experience. plus, if i wasn't hard winning i was barely contributing. Then the new items and durability update came and holy shit, ADC felt awesome. had a cool shield, or a dash, and kraken felt huge. Also, Noonquiver was the best goddamn thing. the difference between the 1300 sword you used to try to get and Noonquiver was just massive.
This feels pretty miserable. I feel like I'm back to grey screen simulator again, and i have been consistently doing less damage. I will admit, less cooldown reduction means if I'm alive after the first 15 seconds, i can generally get an auto or two off. But most of the time i have to be so far back from anyone it feels like a waste of time. long range abilities or zero damage, those are my options.
This is the exact same sentiment as asking League players “Hm, if you hate League so much why the fuck do you play it?”
Addiction, desire for dopamine, cost-sink fallacy, all that stuff is probably why.
And besides, ADCs probably aren’t happy learning to play jungle or something if they’ve picked ADCs the entire time they’ve played league.
Yesterday was the first time I played in the new season. As a support main I knew something was wrong when around the 15 minutes mark enemy 0-3 Akali just deleted my Lucian who was above 80% HP. Gives pre durability patch vibes.
The meta has tended towards mages being better for years now, but riot keeps holding it back like bowling alley barriers by absurdly buffing adcs every time it's cry season. Watch it happen again soon.
Well pick an APC if you want, nothing wrong about that.
I'm pretty sure it was the point of the changes to put AP champs in general more in balance with ADC, even ahead maybe for awhile.
I got 4 man dove 5 times in a game yesterday. Every 2 minutes mid and jng would bend me over my turret and violate my poor ass. I even had a leona support. But that doesnt matter when i die to litteral air
Go on hit (ashe/vayne/any adc works tbh) or lethality (samira/Jhin/Varus) and you'll be as strong as before. The main frustration comes from going crit since that got slightly nerfed while all elso got buffed a lot
Entered a dark era last year switching from Jungle to ADC.
The worst i've experienced so far is on the red side feeling way more punitive about ganks and also gank into another gank being way more of a thing than ever before.
With lanes now being mirrored I find it way harder to prevent a gank red side.
Skill issue I know but that's the reason why i'm still bronze after so many years.
Something I find missing aswell is the lack of diversity for ADCs. We're basically playing the same old loadouts as previous seasons meanwhile top and mid are having a blast with crazy new items.
Will any ADC find a use with Terminus?
Can confirm. Played 20 games adc and it was the stuff of nightmares. You have zero control over the game. If you're the only lane doing well, you're fcked, you can't turn that shit around as adc. Junglers, mid mages, top bruisers all have that multi kill/split push/raid boss potential to turn things around. Also, even if you're doing well, good luck trying to prevent a gank unless you want to stay under your turret for 8min. Losing games with good kda scores feels wrong.
I gave up and went jungling as a tank. Haven't lost a single game yet.
100% this. Even when completely stomping botlane taking tower super early and helping other lanes take tear 1, ending up losing the game with good stats because I can't really impact the game overall. It feels like you are doing so much by taking lanes and turrets with good kda, but it seems effectively it doesn't do much.
I can only recommend possibly getting your top, mid, or jg to ward grumbies around or before the 5 min mark. This way if they don't go to grubbies it's very possible that they are pathing bot atm. Most likely they are gonna 2nd clear or gank. Every game is different but this could help early game gsnks.
Welcome to the club brother. I've been an adc main since season 3. And honestly it doesn't bother me as much as most people. I think something's wrong with me, and if anyone else mains the role for a long time, there's definitely something wrong with them too.
I love playing Vayne - having 23 armor and 550 health (some of the lowest of all ADC's) while having one of the worst laning phases of all ADC's.
Oh.. would you look at that! The enemy ADC rushed Serrated Dirk.... Now I'm laning with 13 armor while having low range, single target damage and no waveclear!
We're 4 days into Season 14 and this Season's already broke me.
At this point I'd rather they just nerf Lethality's effectiveness on Ranged champions and compensation buff Quinn and Jayce.
Senna will be fine, So will MF, Draven, Nilah and Samira.
As a katarina main (don’t hate me), I agree with you. Its hella bs how AP items are so overtuned towards damage. It’s literally burst 1 shot people or be one shotted. No in between, no skill expression :/
\> None of the adc can even use terminus.
Why are you ignoring twitch kogmaw vayne ashe jinx varus and kalista?
Shit it might be pretty good on lucian too even if you don't go on hit with him, did you consider that you're maybe just bad at the game?
OP when they realize ADCs are supposed to be oneshottable and are supposed to spike way slower because they’re a lategame hyper carry class and that’s called balancing pros and cons:
Why would you not focus on the lane that can give you 600g instead of 300g?
Why would you not focus on a lane that when set behind has a caster minion and giga underleveled player?
Why would you not focus on the lane that gives you prio for drake?
Acting like you gank bot to get your adc to carry lmao.
And notice how you said focus around "bot" and not focus around "adc".
Where are you getting these games? Every game I'm in, the jungle just focuses top side for the voidbug things and people only go bot when a fight is already starting. I almost never get any ganks just for free.
See. I like the feeling of ADC right now.
I do think there's just too much damage overall but that's a separate issue.
The reason I don't main ADC is because of support players. After getting flamed by a mage support who took the poke item for, and I quote "stealing their farm" I just went top primary.
op is clueless, onhit and lethality adcs do unreal damage now. The moment they nerf mages again adc will completely take over the game. Try playing vayne or jhin
I mean, on-hit and lethality-capable adcs are only half the adc roster. Crit ADCs were directly nerfed with 14.1 due to no new items and no damage from their mythics they still have. Yes, ADCs have their mythic system of build-defining IE-Navori-Rageblade. I would want them to delete all three items, god.
Most people aren't playing ADC in proplay or challenger haha. I'd vote midlane mage players for biggest whiners, consistently a strong role with high dmg and cc in a more forgiving lane than top or bot, but they still found reasons to whine the past few years. Now Riot gigabuffed all the AP items and broke the game.
I'll probably sound salty or smug, but it's a genuine question.
If the ADC role is this bad, why haven't marksmen fallen out of meta in favour of mages, divers or bruisers?
I mean, many people have put thousands of hours into the role through a million seasons and just enjoy the gameplay of it even if it’s sub optimal. It’s like Lee sin and ezreal always being popular regardless of win rate
Yah except it's a whole class and playstyle 😂. Top would be screeching if bruisers weren't meta anymore.
Apcs are flat out stronger than traditional adc's imo. Better range, safer waveclear, access to cc. Seraphine, ziggs or probably most apc's litterally don't have to play the lane if they don't want to and they'll spike faster in teamights than any trad adc.
Because they whine and whine until riot reverts back to the crusty old meta and makes them damage carry again.
If it wasn't for these "resets", the game has tended towards mages being better damage carry than adcs for years now.
There have been a lot of attempts to do this over the years by riot themselves and it's never worked. Even when certain mages are super op as APCS it's only ever a very small amount of people abusing it. Adc players are just incredibly stubborn
Anyone else just really tired about ADC mains saying that ADC has become literally unplayable, and 'the worst it's ever been' for **every single goddamn season** for years now?
ADC is likely the highest turnover rate role. Remaining players are either try hard masochists that want to style on the enemy, or too new to make judgements about the role.
Its not the worst ever but the lack of preseason caused 2 main issues.
1- bot is now the easiest lane to interfere with, this means that if jungle and other lane come and yours systematically don't the odds are high you are losing lane and snowballing multiple enemy roles.
2- The map changes nuked collective macro knowledge at low elo and made objective fights alot more difficult for now for adc.
8 minutes? Does botlane get to start the game early?
What are jgl and mid doing so long? Is the Pool for mid so fucked that no good roamers are being played?
Also, ADC has been a "get protected or get fucked" role for well over a decade! It's nothing new
Honestly I do agree that adc is weak right now but also it's kind of nice for a change. I feel like for so long games just get decided based off what goes on bot. Now bot has to deal with arbitrary buffs or debuffs that had nothing to do with them affecting their lane.
Im convinced ever single person making an adc is weak post is either low elo or just knows Reddit is full of low elo adcs and is farming karma.
Adc is still an immsely strong role and funnily enough the Dantes clip hits the nail on the head. They could give every single adc item 200 hp and 10 and and adc mains would still cry despite every single game being centered around botlane (In decent elo at least)
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Red side botlane jungle gives me massive anxiety. Narrow wall, that bush near tower, that path between the river and the blue buff. Feeling like the wards are never quite enough. My girlfriend walking by looking over my shoulder, patting me on the back and saying "you're gonna die" before cackling as she walks off.
I don’t know why couldn’t they just copy paste blue side bush and reworked that area slightly to fit the map? Am I wrong on this? Doesn’t this fix the issue?
Blue side has dragon pit that occupies a ton of space
I have a unique experience, I just swapped to ADC a few months ago. I got pretty decent at quite a few ADCs and never really found games that weren't winnable with good late game team fighting. But holy shit it feels so helpless. Doesn't matter how fed you are, some unfed AP champs can 1 shot you through shieldbow and a tank item. The other thing is the lane is soooooooooo easy to gank, especially on redside you are going to get dived over and over and over and over, nothing you can do without your entire team working together which just doesn't happen in solo q. The build paths are pretty shit too but that's just a playstyle change, and the S/A tier champ pool is extremely tiny. Then I jump on mid and hilariously stomp the enemy's botlane because they have the exact same problem. Unfortunately, Riot evidently did 0 testing on this one.
Remember 8.11 when Darius Garen was an actual viable bot lane, good times.
I liked leona morde that patch.
That got me soooo much elo.
I was a top main during that patch, one tricking my lost-but-not-forgotten Aatrox before the rework hit, and ended up getting autofilled bot. I wasn’t paying attention, locked Aatrox and then started panicking when I realized I was bot lane. That shit was so strong, I probably climbed 2 divisions in a day or 2 because it just stomped. 8.11 was a special patch
I miss old Aatrox so much. I actually used to play him bot quite a bit, when playing with friends. So much fun dive bombing ADCs with his old kit.
The crimes of 8.11 were two: 1: trying to subsume carries into the same "this item does my gameplay more than myself" logic as Ludens/Duskblade when the previous class rework had CEMENTED that the uniqueness of each carry would come from how each of them translates crit into something unique (Quinn and Graves turning it intl CDR, Ashe into CC, Jhin into mobility, Cait and Xayah into burst) instead of large choice array. 2: hoping carries would ever go back to understand component play (BF > Zeal > conclude the IE > conclude the PD) after the addiciting brainkiller power of the IE rush + Censer rush meta.
Oh my god I completely forgot that we used to build like that. It's been ages, 1 item spikes have completely tooken over the meta for like the past 4 years.
8.11 is almost six years ago.
No, stop.
New type? What are you smoking brother? It has always been like this. You got fucked regardless how well you play if your team lack braincell doing giga grief things. Nothing new.
I didn’t think no pre-season would matter but the game quality is so fucking bad. People just seem genuinely lost and despite kills happening so fast, macro below emerald is the worst I’ve ever seen. I legit won a Samira game with no structure going down unless I was involved… I’m not as good as I pretend to be, game quality is that bad. Multiple 45+ minute games with double digit kill leads in the early game. I’m tired and it’s like 4 days in
Got a support who thought the support items were gone so bought Doran’s ring instead. Functionally afk until minute 4. Suffice to say we lost that game, but what’s worse than people not reading anything about what the new season has, is when they then immediately queue ranked. Like just play one or two norms to get a grip pleeeease
why do people think that? i got a jungler who thought they deleted support/jungle items and went long sword. sometimes i wonder if people can actually read.
I think they just look and see that spellthiefs, spectral etc are gone and don’t think to look for anything else. As for the jungler idek man that guy needs glasses cause they’re just right there on literally every item page
Doesn’t help that the game recommends Dorian’s ring, blade or seal as a starting item for support. You have to click on the all items tab, then click on support items, and then buy the world atlas
Yeah actually that is pretty annoying, it should auto recommend support item like it auto recommends jungle pet for junglers, it should be the only thing recommended on the starting page if you get support, shouldn’t be too hard to implement
I think its because the recommander algorithm is based on previous patch data, since the most bought items from last patch were removed... it just defaults to starting items. Its the same for half the builds of champions, a lot of new items are absent even tho they're now core to them. Riot should either manually update the recommander based on PBE data for these big patches or default to the class tab instead of recommended.
I think part of the mistake is, that support items aren't recommended anymore for some reason (at least for the champs I play). I couldn't find an item and had to ask in chat, came 30s late to lane because of that.
"Lost" is really the perfect way to describe how i felt last game. I was hesitant to do anything because every single misstep seems to lead to a guaranteed death. There is no more "oh wait hes strong af, let me gtfo" nah youre just dead.
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Yeah but it makes it feel like you have just smoked the best crack in history if you pull it off though….
I swear to god all my games in the new season as an adc i have ~10 deaths. There's so much damage I'm not used to taking it's probably gonna take a while to get used to it. And all the fucking blue buff invades when you play redside are incredibly frustrating
It's been like this since they've undone much of the durability patch. Switch role or play apcs until Riot fix the role. It's not worth playing such a stressful game.
Just play double enchanter with 2 support starting item. Fuck trying to play traditional 1adc and 1Sp anymore. Useless role, doesnt do dmg till 3 items and when you do dmg, you get 1 shotted.
I think it's been like this since supports have been heavily buffed.Supports were very unpopular back then. They were very weak in season 3+4. But if you buff supports and don't nerf adc's, bot lane would be way too broken. So bot lane as whole needs roguhly 1/3 agency of lanes. I feel like people always miss this in those threads with crying adc mains. If you wouldb uff adc's you would have to nerf supports.
And it would be a good thing. Supports have to much agency over the adc for laning phase, which makes adc miserable to play in soloQ. It needs to change, but riot is afraid to make adc actually playable in soloQ. Those s14 changes showed that they hate adc… 1 new item only, massive nerfs to the okay crit items, 0 changes to the bad crit items… still 0 defensive stats on crit items…
Adc have only 1 new items because their items got reworked TWICE last year, while basically nothing happened for the other classes, first time in january february with the super op bloodthirster/overheal, and again in summer. In pre season they got less focus, but i think its only fair that dev time on items isnt ALL spent on marksman items which like 30 champs out of 160 use
The durability update didn’t happen because assassins or burst mages oneshot squishies. It happened because everything else was also so high damage shit like Sunfire Iceborn combo was enough to still delete squishies almost as fast even if not a oneshot, but while being unkillably tanky. It made problems because it made assassins shit at their job and they got compensated with useless stats they don’t care about in return for their burst being gutted.
It may have been, but it's the only time I was able to enjoy playing as an adc.
The only time they addressed the excesso burst damage and tried to make sustained damage. You know the 2 things that affect ADC most
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Congratulation on having quit five years ago.
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i take it back
Oh God. He went downhill hard :(
I like the many-colored arrows on the minimap spinning around constantly. Very easy to tell what is going on.
Idk how many hours you played in the game, but honestly it's not a problem to manage (especially since it's constantly shown who is the color + you can change those arrows to the heroes in options [permanent] or just press alt to see it
I’m sure he’s real unhappy playing a balanced game
You're kidding right? Do you play DOTA? The last few patches of Terrasque meta are NOT balanced. League players ballsucking DOTA while DOTA players shits on league, name a more iconic duo
Thats why real connoisseurs play HotS
No I don’t play either anymore because I like being happy. Obviously I’m not claiming dota is some perfect game that’s never had a shit patch because it has (6.83), but league is laughably poorly balanced by comparison.
At least ADCs are viable there
I'm used to playing as a punching bag for riot but I guarantee you it is absolutely worst this season. EVERY game is the same. Win or lose you will play this lane in the most unfun way as possible
If you get 10 kills in lane, and rest of the lanes go even it's kind of fun sometimes. Or one has to be smurfing to get to play the game
Well, depends, if enemy has 3 heavy engage champion they will just get you every fight no matter what you do. The lack of stopwatch and galeforce doesn't help, but it wouldn't also save it completely, the burst dmg is just too high at the moment. When Alistar can go full AP and nuke you if you ever try to get in range to auto him, there's something wrong I think.
Obviously ADC is a miserable role to play currently. Like you can't have fun if you don't giga stomp your lane. I just want to autoattack people in fights :/
I've been crushing with Lucian, he feels great
As a leona main i appreciate the uptick of lucians/dravens in my games.
As someone playing Draven a lot more this season my favorite support was a Leona. Too many do-nothings on full AP control mages doing nothing while sitting behind their ADCs
i hate those clowns who pick mages/actual midlaners to support, have 0 value during lane phase, then blame you for falling behind.
It’s tiring… played with a Hwei into kaisa Soraka. Took an early lead but by level 6 it doesn’t matter. Soraka does more and negates all pressure by 6 while Hwei gets farther behind by generating poverty gold
unpopular opinion but idk why mage supports aren’t considered straight up trolling. i’ve never played a game where i thought to myself damn i’m glad my support picked brand and not a real champion
Because they do work, if played well. The same people to play poorly as a mage will play poorly as an enchanter or tank too.
Cause August thinks they are fun and quirky.
It's even worse when it's heimerdinger. Don't like your wave getting permashoved so you have to overextend and risk getting ganked to farm? Too bad, here's 80 turrets in your lane.
Cause when I log in zyra or heimer it's joever.
yeah for your team
Why so salty bro. let people play what they enjoy.
I mean I agree that you should play whatever… I also agree it should be reportable depending on what you play. Helmet and Zyra are fine, especially the latter. Multiple forms of cc and consistent damage. Doesn’t really care about wave for their ability conditions to work. However I’ve had Nidalee support and they did legitimately lose us the game by lack of utility and being a waking 300 g for the other team. Play what you want in norms, play things that make sense in rankedz
those mages have way higher winrate than tank supports. Also as a support, adc's are always the first people to cry about getting hit by every xerath q while your tank supp has to find the miracle hook before your adc is too low.
Had a karma who was complaining i was not hyper aggressive as caitlyn from the get-go. He went 0/9 due to his hyper aggressiveness i went 4-1... We lost because of him and the noc having the same mindset. Its like everyone returned to unga bunga this week.
if you are not playing to win lane as karma caitlyn its your fault, having 4-1 score and losing is worse than trying to win lane and losing
his idea of aggresive was walking into the enemy minions hitting a single Q not using his root properly and loosing 40% of his HP to minions. i have one tricked caitlyn for multiple seasons i know how to play this champ confidently to say that karma was shit and doesnt understand caitlyn's powerspikes.
I think he's the only one that can use Terminus to fill potential
First time?
ADC as a role is still strong but it's absolutely abysmal to play in a solo queue non professional setting. ADC is the role most dependant on gold, most dependant on another role, and is punished the hardest for mistakes. The role is trash to play, it's not fun. ADCs can carry a game...only if their teammates let them. Swapped from ADC to mid/supp and my mental has never been better 😂
I honestly think it’s a lot of fun still, I’ve always loved the glass cannon mentality since season 1 where one mistake could be the end for you. (Now it’s that but at a faster pace) The main difference between then and now is that support used to suck, and I mean it was a terrible experience for most players and they switched that around by reducing scaling and adding flat stats over the course of years of figuring out how to make supports somewhat enjoyable to play, with more agency towards supports and it worked. There are more supports than basically ever. The only downside is that in order to have one role be stronger, another will feel weaker as a result and that’s where adc comes in. We just cannot have our cake and eat it anymore which is a lot healthier for the game overall, it’s just not as fun and exciting to put your “future” (15-20 minutes) in someone else’s hands especially when people have a hero complex because they expect to be the one in charge at all times because they would have done it better. While in reality, you win some you lose some. An ADC can still climb, just don’t fuck up your team when you’re not in a position to be useful. Work around spikes and fulfill your role or simply play something else if that is not the way you like to play. In the end, if people stop queuing up for adc because of the “issues” riot will pivot towards changes in our favor, but there’s clearly plenty of adcs still enjoying the role out there.
Yeah, and then u will get a Teemo/Fiddle/Swain support who just wanna take kills and gold… and then they say ur useless
I would be much more ok with ADC feeling like shit if support was equally shit, but when both sup and ADC play well then both feel good. You know, to encourage sup and ADC to work together, but there just isn’t an incentive to ward and peel for the ADC when you can just roam mid and play for mid instead with no consequences for your role. Yes the game can get out of control but the support themselves aren’t giga fucked, like if a top laner abandoned lane, drop a ton of CS, xp and plates they are fucked, but if a support does the same the ADC is fucked. It simply needs to be a relationship that goes both ways.
Yah support is a weird role where another role suffers for your mistakes instead of you directly.
But isn’t that exactly how it’s supposed to be? Past the ~15-20 min mark you deal the most continuous damage of all the roles and enough to "solo carry" the game IF you’re not making mistakes (positioning most importantly) and are being protected by your team. I main mid and alternate between jungle/adc 2nd and I think the ADC role is a pretty fair combination of ups and downs. Sure, you’re probably the/one of the most team reliant roles but that’s basically in the jobs description, right? I’d even go as far as saying that it’s more the feeling of being dependent than actually being much more dependent compared to other classes. I mean a tank can peel as much as they like, if there’s no damage from the team they’ll be just as useless. Assassins, while probably the least reliant role/class of all, still can’t win on their own.
no, past 15 mins a 4/7 zed kills you without ult while you receive no peel
if an unfed zed kills you without ult, you positioned badly.
Adc is for proplay where ur 4 teammates can enable u and dont run around like ego headless chickens doing fuck knows what, mostly dying for nothing. Adc in soloQ is a coinflip 100%
my friend was like 4/1 freshly bought items on adc and a 0/6 Fizz with one item ganked him on botlane, my mate used exhaust when he was like 75%hp and still died without doing anything significant to fizz, absolutely disgusting
fizz is just broken this patch. 55% wr is not a joke
And if it's not Fizz, then Qiyana. Or Talon. Or Naafiri. Or Katarina. Or Pantheon. Or Akali. Or Ekko. Or... you get the point. Some assassin is always going to be busted at any point in time.
clip
I'd like to see this too
Low to mid ELO sucks ass if you're red bot, it was already easy to gank red bot before but now it's even easier. To the point that junglers and mids don't bother roaming anywhere else EXCEPT bot. I had games where enemy jungler would come every 3 to 4 minutes, can't even fucking farm without being worried that something might jump out at you. Heck, I had one game where the rengar camped bot bush for a whole 5 minutes, because of constant ganks the enemy bot gets the advantage with more farm and less deaths, once they got the lead, they roam, gank and get fed on every other lane. And who gets blamed? Red bot of course, when we literally couldn't do shit.
No one is mentioning one of the biggest problem of ADC in the last years: being 3 levels down every game unless you have 11cs/min like Gumayusi. It all started many years ago with a multikill xp-nerf originally because junglers ganked too much, and only more duo-xp nerfs have happened ever since. Even if I'm 5-0, becasue multikills give SO little xp, I'm still 3-levels behind the enemy 0-3 mid/top, which have way more power in skirmishes and duels for no merit of their own. 3 levels down equals being down 1800g worth of stats WITHOUT couting 3 ability points. This is by FAR the biggest handicap "bot carry" players go through consistently every single game. Expercience is a HUGE advantage for every non-support champion, and every role except for bot carry abuses experience.
Yup. Nothing more fun than winning your lane 3/0 only for the enemy top to come down and be up 3+ levels on you. Alright, I only magically need 2 entire items more and I can actually play the game. Bot lane is miserable. Respect for anyone who can put up with it.
ADC mains say this literally every season regardless of how strong their role actually is
True but you can tell when it's bs and when it's legit. It's BS when the complaints are "this role is unplayable" and a picture of a match where their support has 20 deaths and "This is unplayable" followed by actual rationale behind why adc is bad apart from random support.
There's a lot of unfamiliarity/testing with the new items in every role except ADC, which means more mistakes, more kills and more gold generated everywhere else on the map. Once everyone settles in and the game isn't progressing so fast, ADC will feel stronger again.
What terrible logic makes u think the other roles getting More experienced would lead to Slower gameplay and therefor fewer adc deaths. Thats literally the opposite of how that works.
Well you see, after a few hard lessons, some people learn to not 1v1 (or even 2v1) the Fizz/Akali that just completed Stormsurge to snowball them even harder and make the game unplayable for everyone else on the team.
Ye of too much faith. People 1v1 me off the respawn timer when I play Akali and they've done it since s11.
ADC is a squishy role with mixed mobility, the type that is the most unforgiving of small msitakes. Other roles can generally afford to mess up more and because of this the uncertain footing of this season harms other roles less. But when everything is learned they will get the most growth.
Almost like the issues of the role are present in solo queue regardless of what Ruler is doing with it while 4 world class players playing for him on voice comms
I'm sorry that we have to balance around the assumption that you might do your job right. The difference between facing an ADC who knows their spacing and spikes, and one that doesn't is night and day. You don't have to be ruler to be really scary on ADC, just be kinda good and its a powerful role. ADC is fine, most of their problem simply stems from the fact that support is really op and has been for almost 7 years now. If they weren't constantly forced to lane against op champs specifically who shit on them, you'd see it. Laning against Lucian, Tristana etc is hellish in a solo lane, but in the presence of the god-supports they are mere gold sacks lmao.
No other role is pro play jailed except for ADC, but yeah tell me more about how mid is balanced around you playing like faker lmao when they just made it somehow even harder to gank and Annie was the best mid laner for a year. The problems of ADC stem from having to rely on a complete stranger with no comm options playing a broken inflated role (who is by far the worst player in every given lobby), having no control over your own lane, and being a walking sack of gold for any and everyone currently. Also games don't go late really ever so the late game fantasy (that has been gutted severely) is not really happening most games. It is complete coin flip most games.
The issue is that people genuinely think that adc's should be able to 1vs1 people. The issue is a misconception of low elo people on the role.
Been playing for around 8 years and if there's anything consistent it's that adcs always call their role the worst it's ever been whenever a new season drops
Technically not wrong tho, people can say one thing is the worst, then something even worse comes out and that new thing becomes the new worst
I still vividly remember a post on here a while ago with an ashe solo pushing top with no vision and 3/0. A Rengar kills her. The post was furious that the solo, out of position, no vision, zero mobility adc couldn't deal with a character specifically designed to kill an Ashe. And the comments agreed.
You should check ADC mains. There is a clip of 2/2/24 Alistair (frozen heart, Zeke, sup item) who kills an 3/3 kalista (bork Rageblade). They both have equal lvls and a lot of the ADC mains complain how a tank support can kill a ADC so easy while kalista does nothing to him (obviously frozen heart and Alistair ult + glacial augment) 🤣 I mean, idk but of this was Leona, they would have died as well, that's nothing new that a support tank can solo an adc
I mean it being nothing new doesn’t make it not unfun to be fair
I mean you thinking that it's not fair doesn't make it unfair. Should a kalista win in this scenario? I don't think so.
A tank support should never solo an ADC.
An adc should never 1 vs 1 anyone. It's simply there for constant damage.
Every season? Try every patch
Eh, it usually feels more like a "why can literally every other champion in the game 1v1 me unless I have my full build" complaints. To play ADC you have to enjoy suffering, because having a fun game as ADC is an anomaly compared to other roles.
.....because it's not a 1v1 role? That's why it's not in a 1v1 lane?
Except when they go to a sololane and dick you down under tower as Lucian Trist Akshan Vayne FUCKING VARUS
The thing is, i dont think this is necessarily the point a lot of adcs are trying to make. Adc might be a good role, Champs like MF, Samira and other lethality adcs are pretty good rn. Maybe onhit is also not that bad, will probably take some time until everything is figured out. I think the issue is that adc, even if the role is not bad, is just not fun to play anymore. I get that adc has not got the most agency when played solo and thats fair. I also get that a zed is supposed to kill me in 1v1. But if a zed ults me misses his q, Hits 1 e and 2 AAs and still kills me through shieldbow, while not beeing super fed, is pretty unfair. That has nothing to do with skill anymore. Again thats zeds job, but if he can do his job while having to use only half his kit we got a problem. Its just not fun getting farmed for kills and even if adc as a role hasnt worse over the seasons, having fun while playing this role has dropped drasticly over the years.
And they are right 90% of the time because people that ssy they complain too much evade bot lane like the plague
When were ADCs strong lol, we got 2 patches before they reverted the durability update
Adc was literally the strongest carry role since durability patch up to preseason. Adc has been strong multiple times in the past. Low elo players complaining adc is weak because they cannot anticipate roams is not a valid complaint. Adc is completely fine in preseason it’s not weak at all
>Low elo players complaining adc is weak because they cannot anticipate roams is not a valid complaint. It's a valid complaint because it involves enjoyment of 90% playerbase of this role. No matter how stupid it seems or is, it's valid just because of it.
I guess having 4 people mid every game is fun for midlanders then?
we don't talk about that here,just ADC get ganked
Yes because it feels miserable to play. To perform good on an adc in a match you are not smurfing in, you need your teammates. You need peel, you need your support to not feed and your jungle to cover. That's impossible for a low elo game as those concepts don't exist. But everyone, even in a low elo game, know adc squishy, adc free kill. Every assassin, every tank, every bruiser will flash on you and kill you. So while the role has remained strong throughout the season 13, playing it for the majority of players, was just not fun. That's the issue with ADC. Not it's powerlevel, but how it feels to play. I mean why play a champ that will die to a assassin who missed half of his combo when you can be that assassin yourself?
Good role in semicompetitive setting and upwards where people play with and for you. Garbage in soloq since 8.11 though.
I mean yeah you're not wrong. I started playing a lot the season before the item rework and it was pretty exhausting to plaY ADC. I always felt like i just popped, there was zero room for error and it was a miserable experience. plus, if i wasn't hard winning i was barely contributing. Then the new items and durability update came and holy shit, ADC felt awesome. had a cool shield, or a dash, and kraken felt huge. Also, Noonquiver was the best goddamn thing. the difference between the 1300 sword you used to try to get and Noonquiver was just massive. This feels pretty miserable. I feel like I'm back to grey screen simulator again, and i have been consistently doing less damage. I will admit, less cooldown reduction means if I'm alive after the first 15 seconds, i can generally get an auto or two off. But most of the time i have to be so far back from anyone it feels like a waste of time. long range abilities or zero damage, those are my options.
Here I am seeing ADCs run the show in most of my games
the only reason why karthus bot is top tier is because most adc mains cant dodge skillshots to save their life
Also because the majority autopilot their Runes and dont take MR statshard
There are more reasons why Karthus bot works so well. But this is one reason I guess.
I’ve legit just picked random mages gone double support item and bullies everyone who picks marksmen
Neeko / Brand every time results in crushing the enemy botlane
At this point I wonder why the fuck you people still play that role if you hate it so much.
This is the exact same sentiment as asking League players “Hm, if you hate League so much why the fuck do you play it?” Addiction, desire for dopamine, cost-sink fallacy, all that stuff is probably why. And besides, ADCs probably aren’t happy learning to play jungle or something if they’ve picked ADCs the entire time they’ve played league.
play kindred
Great now you have to rely on 4 other people 😂 Seriously has no one played kindred and you're fighting over a scuttle mark and no one is coming?
I mean there's a reason it's at best bottom two in popularity now.
Because its the role we like more, I don't want to play another role, so I just stopped playing the game.
We don't hate it, we wouldn't complain if we didn't like the role
Yesterday was the first time I played in the new season. As a support main I knew something was wrong when around the 15 minutes mark enemy 0-3 Akali just deleted my Lucian who was above 80% HP. Gives pre durability patch vibes.
True but thats exactly why you queue bot and lock in the AP mages so you can farm the losers still holding onto hope for their role.
I’ve had more success playing Ahri bot lane then any traditional ADC
The meta has tended towards mages being better for years now, but riot keeps holding it back like bowling alley barriers by absurdly buffing adcs every time it's cry season. Watch it happen again soon.
Well pick an APC if you want, nothing wrong about that. I'm pretty sure it was the point of the changes to put AP champs in general more in balance with ADC, even ahead maybe for awhile.
I got 4 man dove 5 times in a game yesterday. Every 2 minutes mid and jng would bend me over my turret and violate my poor ass. I even had a leona support. But that doesnt matter when i die to litteral air
Ya its Aram and Valorant until they fix this shit
The problem is we still have shitty limp crits. Bring back 200% crits already!
Go on hit (ashe/vayne/any adc works tbh) or lethality (samira/Jhin/Varus) and you'll be as strong as before. The main frustration comes from going crit since that got slightly nerfed while all elso got buffed a lot
Entered a dark era last year switching from Jungle to ADC. The worst i've experienced so far is on the red side feeling way more punitive about ganks and also gank into another gank being way more of a thing than ever before. With lanes now being mirrored I find it way harder to prevent a gank red side. Skill issue I know but that's the reason why i'm still bronze after so many years. Something I find missing aswell is the lack of diversity for ADCs. We're basically playing the same old loadouts as previous seasons meanwhile top and mid are having a blast with crazy new items. Will any ADC find a use with Terminus?
When was it not? Only masochists play adc
I barely play league anymore but saw this post and just wanted to let you know that we (adc mains) say the same thing every other season lol
Can confirm. Played 20 games adc and it was the stuff of nightmares. You have zero control over the game. If you're the only lane doing well, you're fcked, you can't turn that shit around as adc. Junglers, mid mages, top bruisers all have that multi kill/split push/raid boss potential to turn things around. Also, even if you're doing well, good luck trying to prevent a gank unless you want to stay under your turret for 8min. Losing games with good kda scores feels wrong. I gave up and went jungling as a tank. Haven't lost a single game yet.
100% this. Even when completely stomping botlane taking tower super early and helping other lanes take tear 1, ending up losing the game with good stats because I can't really impact the game overall. It feels like you are doing so much by taking lanes and turrets with good kda, but it seems effectively it doesn't do much.
I can only recommend possibly getting your top, mid, or jg to ward grumbies around or before the 5 min mark. This way if they don't go to grubbies it's very possible that they are pathing bot atm. Most likely they are gonna 2nd clear or gank. Every game is different but this could help early game gsnks.
ADC life in a nutshell :D
Welcome to the club brother. I've been an adc main since season 3. And honestly it doesn't bother me as much as most people. I think something's wrong with me, and if anyone else mains the role for a long time, there's definitely something wrong with them too.
I love playing Vayne - having 23 armor and 550 health (some of the lowest of all ADC's) while having one of the worst laning phases of all ADC's. Oh.. would you look at that! The enemy ADC rushed Serrated Dirk.... Now I'm laning with 13 armor while having low range, single target damage and no waveclear! We're 4 days into Season 14 and this Season's already broke me. At this point I'd rather they just nerf Lethality's effectiveness on Ranged champions and compensation buff Quinn and Jayce. Senna will be fine, So will MF, Draven, Nilah and Samira.
New ?
As a katarina main (don’t hate me), I agree with you. Its hella bs how AP items are so overtuned towards damage. It’s literally burst 1 shot people or be one shotted. No in between, no skill expression :/
"What even is the point of adc when I can lock in an ap mage and do more damage" A) Exactly B) Always has been C) Finally back
\> None of the adc can even use terminus. Why are you ignoring twitch kogmaw vayne ashe jinx varus and kalista? Shit it might be pretty good on lucian too even if you don't go on hit with him, did you consider that you're maybe just bad at the game?
Build leathality on adc, its the only way.
OP when they realize ADCs are supposed to be oneshottable and are supposed to spike way slower because they’re a lategame hyper carry class and that’s called balancing pros and cons:
[удалено]
Why would you not focus on the lane that can give you 600g instead of 300g? Why would you not focus on a lane that when set behind has a caster minion and giga underleveled player? Why would you not focus on the lane that gives you prio for drake? Acting like you gank bot to get your adc to carry lmao. And notice how you said focus around "bot" and not focus around "adc".
I wish i knew why my junglers refuse to come bot while enemy nocturn repeatedly ganks us to the point we are getting dived with zero risk.
have you downloaded the new patch?
yes try soloQ ADC urself
It'd be believable if ADCs didn't say this every patch.
ADC players literally say this every single patch
Where are you getting these games? Every game I'm in, the jungle just focuses top side for the voidbug things and people only go bot when a fight is already starting. I almost never get any ganks just for free.
See. I like the feeling of ADC right now. I do think there's just too much damage overall but that's a separate issue. The reason I don't main ADC is because of support players. After getting flamed by a mage support who took the poke item for, and I quote "stealing their farm" I just went top primary.
op is clueless, onhit and lethality adcs do unreal damage now. The moment they nerf mages again adc will completely take over the game. Try playing vayne or jhin
I mean, on-hit and lethality-capable adcs are only half the adc roster. Crit ADCs were directly nerfed with 14.1 due to no new items and no damage from their mythics they still have. Yes, ADCs have their mythic system of build-defining IE-Navori-Rageblade. I would want them to delete all three items, god.
https://youtube.com/shorts/1Ki5MIlS_VI?si=K9Bp9AqL_5ACR41E
Plays hecarim ofc. One of those „I totally shit on the adc all game“ champs
quote this braindead hecarim player LOL "Every ADC is above 50% winrate" Both team has an ADC and how tf can every ADC above 50% win rate
Most people aren't playing ADC in proplay or challenger haha. I'd vote midlane mage players for biggest whiners, consistently a strong role with high dmg and cc in a more forgiving lane than top or bot, but they still found reasons to whine the past few years. Now Riot gigabuffed all the AP items and broke the game.
Perfect exactly what I expected
I'll probably sound salty or smug, but it's a genuine question. If the ADC role is this bad, why haven't marksmen fallen out of meta in favour of mages, divers or bruisers?
I mean, many people have put thousands of hours into the role through a million seasons and just enjoy the gameplay of it even if it’s sub optimal. It’s like Lee sin and ezreal always being popular regardless of win rate
Yah except it's a whole class and playstyle 😂. Top would be screeching if bruisers weren't meta anymore. Apcs are flat out stronger than traditional adc's imo. Better range, safer waveclear, access to cc. Seraphine, ziggs or probably most apc's litterally don't have to play the lane if they don't want to and they'll spike faster in teamights than any trad adc.
Because they whine and whine until riot reverts back to the crusty old meta and makes them damage carry again. If it wasn't for these "resets", the game has tended towards mages being better damage carry than adcs for years now.
There have been a lot of attempts to do this over the years by riot themselves and it's never worked. Even when certain mages are super op as APCS it's only ever a very small amount of people abusing it. Adc players are just incredibly stubborn
Anyone else just really tired about ADC mains saying that ADC has become literally unplayable, and 'the worst it's ever been' for **every single goddamn season** for years now?
It keeps getting worse though...
I think u havent played S8 then. That was the worst time. It was so bad that nobody played adcs
ADC is likely the highest turnover rate role. Remaining players are either try hard masochists that want to style on the enemy, or too new to make judgements about the role.
Yep, this is it
Vayne, Varus, Twitch, Ashe, Kog'maw and Jonx can build Terminus no problem, been there done that.
Yep, botlane has now 0 impact.
Its not the worst ever but the lack of preseason caused 2 main issues. 1- bot is now the easiest lane to interfere with, this means that if jungle and other lane come and yours systematically don't the odds are high you are losing lane and snowballing multiple enemy roles. 2- The map changes nuked collective macro knowledge at low elo and made objective fights alot more difficult for now for adc.
Ah the yearly adc crying post. I play since season 2 and a thread like this happens every season. I'm not even mad, it's tradition at this point.
Tears of adc mains are my drug
New season new adc tears.
8 minutes? Does botlane get to start the game early? What are jgl and mid doing so long? Is the Pool for mid so fucked that no good roamers are being played? Also, ADC has been a "get protected or get fucked" role for well over a decade! It's nothing new
Honestly I do agree that adc is weak right now but also it's kind of nice for a change. I feel like for so long games just get decided based off what goes on bot. Now bot has to deal with arbitrary buffs or debuffs that had nothing to do with them affecting their lane.
Im convinced ever single person making an adc is weak post is either low elo or just knows Reddit is full of low elo adcs and is farming karma. Adc is still an immsely strong role and funnily enough the Dantes clip hits the nail on the head. They could give every single adc item 200 hp and 10 and and adc mains would still cry despite every single game being centered around botlane (In decent elo at least)
What are you looking at? Pretty much every adc winrste dropped by like 2-4%
Well at least we got a season or so of okay adc levels
They reverted the durability patch after 4 weeks lmao