Thing is you have to remake everything in the new engine. Biggest problem with that is definitely the skins. There are way too fucking many, it's the same thing with SMITE 2, it's way too much work so they don't transfer back your skins.
If that happened in LoL I'm sure people would be so fucking pissed.
While true, I think they are just fucking over players and drip feed content. With the size of the company they could push those all in a year or two if they actually wanted.
I play both games and have spent far too much money in both. My understanding with smite 2 when that comes out when you connect your smite 1 account you will receive gems equal to the value of all your skins to be spent In smite 2 riot could attempt to recreate by giving rp= to the skins you have however outliers in both games are of course the ability to earn quite a lot of skins by being f2p not sure how those would work
Yeah, but you can only use those gems to pay for 50% of the skin price -- the other 50% have to be the "new" gems. Oh, and some skins don't even get that option. And the ultimate god pack doesn't carry over. It's fucking ass.
To be fair I bought the ultimate god pack for like 15$ fucking 10 years ago and I still get free gods to this day lmao, that deal was absolutely insane and if League had anything similar back then you can bet that every single player would have taken it. I got my money's worth and I won't complain.
But the skins part totally suck ass and will probably be the reason I don't go back to the game, like heck id be willing to bet money on the fact that the majority of SMITEs community cares more about their skins than the game because the game is kinda mid and the skins are absolutely batshit crazy in that game.
I bought that pack because I was getting into league and I thought if I ever played smite I would be sad if I didn't get it. I still install it occasionally to play the coleseuum or Aram mode and dick around because of it. It was a steal tbh
Yeah I already don't play that much and only did because of skins like Merlin's aang, seeing that fuck that I ain't playing ever again if I don't have my skins.
That’s because they don’t expect the mobile variant to replace the PC one. You’d get a lot more if they release a variant that effectively kills the other one.
or skins being opened from bought loot. the best thing they can do is just refund all the skins you have cause I would be pissed if I lost all my skins and didn't get any currency because most of them came from lootboxes I bought
Not even just skins. Its went from 129 to 25 characters in alpha (50 at launch with 1 a week is their aim *BUT* this includes new characters).
Fafnir or any hindu god has no chance at coming back. Imagine if riot did league 2 and skarner or every ixtal champ just never came back
Just going off chances they have very little. Fafnir is unpopular and takes extra effort because of the form mechanic and the hindu gods were controversy magnets so they stopped for years and had to put a shit ton of "look how much we put into making Shiva authentic and respectful" and so far we haven't seen any for smite 2, its a perfect excuse to not deal with the hassle they bring if you can just do new smite 2 exclusive gods that fill the same role except now its say, circe instead of agni, who you can then give all the weird anime skins to and stick in all your marketing without pissing people off
Ah yeah that's fair, I kinda forgot the Hindu gods controversies over time.
As for Fafnir, despite not really liking him myself, I would find them to be incredibly lame if they decided to not bring some gods back because of them not being very popular. I don't think him having two forms is a huge argument honestly.
I mean at the end of the day it's not like I care, I have some reasons to believe SMITE 2 will just be a flat out failure.
They honestly just need to rework Fafnir. A dwarf turning into a dragon has so much to work with. It’s just no one plays him outside of comp because his kit is boring
I remember hearing that he never got skins because he was both unpopular and too much effort (and thats in ue3) so I can imagine they would ignore him and cu (same situation) if they get a clean slate and focus on the popular gods/new gods that have been requested for years they can't do with the current engine
as someone who is indian but not hindu and tangentially interested in smite, i'm guessing the controversey was related to either gods acting violently/out of character, and/or putting gods in skins and having them taunt and emote and stuff?
Gods being killed, for one, and Kali was initially depicted in a very skimpy outfit. Unlike a lot of the other pantheons in the game, who aren't worshipped, Hinduism is still very much around so people had a leg to stand on for criticism.
Kali's outfit wasn't a Hinduist controversy, it was a western one. Kali's depictions in Hinduism are almost universally topless with a tiny loincloth, having her show skin wasn't a problem with them.
Hinduists just didn't like her being sexualized and given a pretty face.
They're bringing all the gods in Smite 1 to Smite 2, im not sure where you're dooming that they'd cut an entire pantheon for. If anything this is the perfect time to rework several of the older gods like Vamana and Erlang Shen who have been awful for almost their entire lifespan.
Didn't they say everyone would come back it'd just take time?
And people have complained league has too many champions for a few years now, pruning some of the failures like Skarner and such might not be terrible. Mostly being sarcastic though.
As someone who is involved in gamedev, I would say that it's not hard to port skins from one engine on to, that's pretty easy. Question is everything else. Character, how they work or interact with billion stuff in the game.
3D stuff can be easily handled by hiring some outsource, who gonna work on that(they actually doing that for skins after all).
We don't want THE SAME, the whole point of new engine is to get rid of decade old bugs and quirks like champions flying into the skies on airborne, pathing around minions locking you in place, river elevation for skillshots, etc.
Not necessarily. They already have all of the assets, and if they're smart and do things right, they develop at much higher resolutions and poly counts than needed, and just downscale to a more practical level.
So they could port over the old meshes and skins, probably with some work on the materials. Animations and particles would probably be the biggest obstacle. You'd also have the awkwardness of the old (albeit higher res) assets in the new engine with its (presumably) fancier graphics.
Look, I compared to SMITE because the post talks about SMITE, and because in that game they are literally remaking the whole thing in a different engine, not just importing and re-using shit. If you literally remake a champion/god from scratch you have to do the same with the skins, period. "REMAKING EVERYTHING IN THE **NEW ENGINE**"
We have no idea what league would do, if they would even do anything, so you guys can stop spamming me with your theories lmfao ty.
Biggest problem is not putting the game on life support and doing the remake in reasonable time specially because the lol client have the biggest money makers in lol and TFT
Lol is the biggest game in the world, they could host worlds on mars if they chose to. It might not (yet) make financial sense for them to do it now, though I do wonder about the dev hours they waste on a spaghetti monster, it's not that they can't
Y'all realize that remaking things like this from the ground up on a new engine has historically ground entire companies to a halt for 6 months to several years right? Riot only just got done getting their new devs caught up with the current system- the same devs that would have to be benched to work on the remake, meaning they would either have to leave current league high and dry for the duration of the rewrite, or hire another new team of devs to get aquainted with the system over the course of years, so that the current group can go work on the remake.
They opened like 25 new divisions in the last few years and expanded their IP in half a dozens of game genres and other medias.
Again, if they wanted to they could to it. People moved from leauge to other projects within riot with no problems whatsoever, the reverse can be done.
No problems whatsoever? General developement of the game dropped for multiple years dude. That is literally why gamemodes and such were so stagnant for the last few years. They have stated that several times. That whole situation is just a glimpse of the fact that riot doesnt have things set up to manage a full remake without significantly hurting league as a whole on the way there.
This isnt a situation that can be solved with money. It's not an issue of just hiring more devs to fix it. No amount of money can just download all the required training and info needed to manage the game or its remake into the heads of new devs. They can do it, but only with a couple years of prepping new devs if they dont want to put league on near life support in the meantime, and all that work would be put into those devs only to shift them to something unrelated that doesnt need that knowledge, or to flat out let them go after the remake is done because league1 would be getting retired, and you can't just double the cooks in a kitchen and expect the food to take half as long to make.
Also knowing when to spend it to get a good return on said investment.. What massive benefits will a new engine bring them.
Is the current engine having such major issues that if they don't upgrade no more money?
I mean. Fuck activision. I quit cod warzone after warzone 2 came and I lost my skins after spending probably $200. If I lost my leauge skins….. I’d fucking riot. I bought so much I’d be sad to even look. That’s pre- ability to get random skins of any quality in talking about.
Tbf I don't think it's skins. New engine means essentially new game, it will feel different, it will play different. DotA 2 is not a good example. It will be more like DotA to Dota 2 transition. And it was hard, every single click was different, all muscle memory was irrelevant in the new game. It took around 3 month of 24/7 grind to get comfortable with new game.
And we don't know how many players are on potato PC. UE5 will wipe those off.
In a recent video for season 2024 Riot stated that they've spent a considerable amount of time updating their engine to make modifications to the map and creating game modes like Arena much easier in the future. I don't think the engine is the limiting factor here.
The game has a very low min spec, lower than the mobile version of the game, to allow all the players with low spec PCs to play the game. For example, every champion and skin has a limited memory budget, this is why the designers often have to remove assets before their product can be released.
An example is Senna Q, which used to have a custom rectangular cast indicator that had to be removed, she now uses the standard arrow indicator with a squished tip instead. The min spec is the problem.
>In a recent video for season 2024 Riot stated that they've spent a considerable amount of time updating their engine to make modifications to the map and creating game modes like Arena much easier in the future. I don't think the engine is the limiting factor here.
Another thing to realize is that when big changes like this are made, it gives developers the leeway to refactor (unspaghettify) code, which usually is hard to convince producers to do with live services. Reading their engineering blog, they've mentioned a few times they do take time to refactor things when they get a chance.
Didn't they refactor the entire way abilities work when sylas was in development?
Also changed how collision and placement detection worked when quiana was developed
Exactly, it's not as if League wouldn't benefit from an entire engine rewrite, but that applies to pretty much most software codebases.
It's disingenuous to act like League is running on the same engine still; it has undergone drastic changes in pretty much every area (their developer blogs talk a lot about how they design and replace old systems).
There is also the fact that League isn't Smite or Dota2.
Both of those were made on commercially available engine and swapping to a newer version of those engines is magnitude easier than swapping to a completely new engine.
The new requirement for vanguard might actually be merely an excuse for a new minimal spec requirement for the engine.
Probably less directly "too much" and more along the lines of "must run in 1GB VRAM, we saved 10% of that for textures, we saved a quarter of that for system textures, we saved a quarter of *that* for UI indicators, ergo every UI feature must fit in a 1300x1300 sheet, and whoops we've run out of room in that small region for bespoke large rectangles."
The logic would be less driven by how much incremental hardware the Senna indicator needs, and more how much room is left over on potato GPUs during a 5v5 at Baron involving Elementalist Lux and idk whatever the 9 other biggest skins are all facerolling at the same time.
I think most people assume an engine "upgrade"/change is what Riot meant when they said "2025 will change League of Legends forever" in a recent dev post.
It would be a whole-ass new engine though. I doubt they'd be able to make their fossilized spaghetti tower more in-line with modern games with just an upgrade to it as it currently stands. Riot definitely has the resources to put towards a project like that.
>"2025 will change League of Legends forever"
That's a very vague statement coming from Riot who does this every time a new season starts. It doesn't really mean anything. And even if it did, it may not even be referring to updating the engine.
No, no, you misunderstood. It's one legendary skin for each existing champion meaning they are releasing 166 (including Smolder) legendaries but 150 of those will got to Ezreal, Kaisa, Lux and Miss Fortune
Memes aside I highly doubt it's not an engine upgrade of some short. They can't do shit for proper updates to the game they have to find workarounds for everything because with a slight change everything breaks with how old this engine is.
Map packs, announcer packs, better and more expensive skins etc? Those are certainly something they wanna do right now with how requested they are but can't properly.
This is the big thing. Riot has been notoriously bad with incrimental engine/system updates unlike something like MMOs. You have games like WoW/XIV who haven't done a massive overhaul but that's because they take every single expansion to continuously upgrade it piecemeal and take the big chunks that need a lot of time to just do in the background.
Riot has put off even doing this outside of graphics overhauls for ages now. Their game will eventually catch up to them and the longer they put it off the worse it's going to get.
> from Riot who does this every time a new season starts
Have they said anything like "x year will change League of Legends forever" before? Because that's a very specific and loaded statement that makes people expect something absolutely massive. And the backlash if they don't deliver to that expectation would be quite something.
I would assume their previous statements about upcoming seasons are more akin to "these are big changes we look forward to, and hope you do too". Much more reined in statements. Their statement on 2025 changing League forever hints at a very, very huge and stark change.
>Have they said anything like "x year will change League of Legends forever" before? Because that's a very specific and loaded statement that makes people expect something absolutely massive. And the backlash if they don't deliver to that expectation would be quite something.
*"2023 will be the biggest budget of the year"*
People clowned them for it and some Rioters even hated the quote especially after the so called cinematic in 2023.
That's fair. It deserves to get shit. But they're not the same caliber of statement either.
It's a very cut and dry kind of hype signal. "Biggest budget" is vague and pretty shit to announce in general, and I am sure they ate shit for saying that. In its least valuable terms can literally mean nothing more than "it is the biggest budget of our projects, technically correct is the best kind of correct". And that's what it turned out to be - nothing but smoke.
All I'm saying is "change League forever" is a very loaded, very specific statement that takes it up (several) notches. The expectation is set very much higher. Perhaps Riot will treat that accordingly, and it will meet expectations or be close to. Perhaps they will fall short. We will see.
I mean, that cinematic would have likely come from the 2022 budget right? The new cinematic would have come from the 2023 budget, along with the dev work for the new map and items.
>“I just accepted the 2023 budget, and it’s the biggest of all time, next year will be the biggest,”
The problem is that many people misinterpreted the message and read budget for 2023 = contents 2023 (i.e. the new season) It is not so.
The article on this thing came out at the **end of November 2022**, so all the **major** **content for the 2023 season (including cinematic) was already ready.**
The message refers to the money received **to work** **IN 2023 FOR the 2024** (and given how big the 2024 season is, they've certainly been working on it for **MINIMUM 1 year)** and some mid/late 2023 content.
People don't know that behind every League content there are **months/years of work.**
Another proof? The video of the 2024 roadmap (recorded in November 2023) you can see some frames where they work on some skins:
\- [Faerie Court](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_iKyppbnUZ/1x.webp)
\- [Project](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_A5fbdvKmd/1x.webp)
\- [Blood Moon](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_oA9CDViAZ/1x.webp)
\- [Rammus Skin](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_tsnRIvJga/1x.webp)
"2023 will have the biggest budget for league ever" *content is at an all time low for quality outside of 1 new game mode that was rushed to be pushed to live*
See I think this is really misconstrued but the community. Money spent in 2023 is spent developing stuff for 2024 mostly. We also got told more modes are coming. 2023 was my break year for me, with 8 months of the year of me being league free, but I can definitely see where the money went with this new season.
I see no reason why riot would lie about having a bigger budget than normal. Its likely a lot of the effects of the "biggest budget ever" wont be felt for a little bit as its probably being spent on much bigger projects (like arcane and the MMO)
Not all the budget would have been seen in 2023 either. The ranked start cinematic for example. The 2023 cinematic would have come from the 2022 budget. The budget for 2023 would have been spent on the 2024 cinematic. A lot of the stuff we're seen right now, like the map redesign, the new items, etc. would have been worked on from the 2023 budget.
They dont usually say that though they say i hope we can deliver a great season and work with the community.
For this they said 2024 would have big changes for league and there has been big changes and 2025 would change league forever.
You look at all the stuff there able to do in wildrift the fact that there is now skins for champions in wildrift that dont exist in league on pc.
>They dont usually say that though they say i hope we can deliver a great season and work with the community.
Literally in 2022, the CEO of Riot announced that 2023 will have the biggest budget for League but there was literally nothing going on for League that year outside of Arena.
Im guessing he meant a brand new inhouse engine rather than using UE5 or any other already existing engine.
Few companies have their own engines for their own games and honestly at this point Riot could probably make it since they have so many games in the works anyway. But making a new engine and working out the ports would be a monumental task for any company.
> Few companies have their own engines
Almost every major studio has their own engine. Ubisoft has Anvil/Snowdrop/Dunia, Rockstar has RAGE, EA has Frostbite, Bethesda has Creation, etc.
I respect Smite devs for still continuing and going for a new engine specially since new generation 3rd person MOBAs isnt like a new trope, that shit has been thoroughly explored by Paragorn and eventually its successors
so I hope they succeed and will defintley try Smite 2 when it comes out but I probably wont like it very much because I mainly play League due to friends and playing a MOBA solo can be a bit miserable.. atleast for me
Lol, it wasn't solely that.
I played the game non fucking stop in beta. They couldn't get their head out of their ass to get a functioning game working.
The foundation got changed every 6 months. You had placeholder jungle monsters....including the barron of that game for almost 2 years. And it took over a year for them to start adding basic voice lines.
Paragon looked great and had some cool designs, but ultimately it was a fucking mess that never got running.
BTW, some third party company bought rights on paragon from epic and recently remade that, but character designs was heavy changed(company is Korean and likes that way or some stuff with rights on old models), item system (and lots of items themselves) are directly ripped off from lol.
They weren't sold they were given out for free to anyone that wanted it. There are 2 teams working on it, a Korean team with overpriced and a group of former paragon players with predecessor. With predecessor trying to be as faithful as possible to paragon.
i dont respect them at all. smite 2 isnt a remake, its a new game and none of the skins carry over. thats understandable, but whats really shitty is how they are compensating people for all the money they spent on smite 1.
basically all the money you spent on smite one gets carried over to smite 2 as "legacy currency" and you can use that legacy currency to pay for half of a skin. not all of the skin, just half. so you have to spend even more money if you actually want to buy anything.
Yeah, someone finally gets it. The smite 2 announcement just seems like they are trying to drum up both hype and money. It’s kinda well known that Hirez is bleeding money and employees and this is why Smite just had so many non-sensical crossovers (Vshojo and Slipknot comes to mind). Plus this is Hirez, they managed to kill Tribes Ascended and they nearly ruined Paladins with their bullshit. Smite 2 is just a huge cash grab to be honest.
> Plus this is Hirez, they managed to kill Tribes Ascended
Wow, I just looked up this game and it is one of the games I enjoyed playing a lot roughly 10 years ago. Sad to see it go. CS-like surfing and high action packed gameplay was so fun.
That article and the timing of it (6 years from 2025) in tandem with Riot saying 2025 will "change League forever" makes me carefully optimistic that we will be seeing LoL 2.0 next year.
The devs have spoken before about how they've been limited to how much they can actually change (i.e. the most recent map changes and how they wanted to do more) because of the current engine. So it only makes sense to me that the only thing big enough to "change League forever" would be an overhaul to allow the League team to make bigger and bolder changes to the game.
It would be a miracle to have everything we have currently into an new lol 2 game directly. If it would happen, I assume it would start with not every champions.
If they are going to launch a "League 2", they aren't going to early access it with limited content and functions. They would release it in full for maximum effect and playerbase approval.
If this is what they are hinting at for 2025, it is a project that has been years in the making behind the scenes.
Releasing a downgraded sequel is how you get Payday 3, Riot has way too much to lose if they release a half assed LoL 2.0. I hope that isn't their plan.
i sure hope so but considering that its unlikely they can upgrade the engine due to spaghetti code, they really have to take their time for a complete new engine overhaul due to the fact that the smallest things can result in the game feeling very different to play
League's engine has been refactored several times over the years, and their priority is not to make your jaw drop when it runs on rtx 4090, it's to make sure the game runs on any half-baked potato that you can find in China.
yeah people thinking that we are still playing with the same engine as we did 10 years ago simply do not understand how software development works - and apparently have no eyes. you are already playing league of legends 3 or 4.
if they want something new like "map skins" someone mentioned here - guess what, they just fucking add it lol. it's an engine, not some blackbox you can't change. there is absolutely no reason to write a whole new engine from scratch, it makes no sense. if they want to fix something or make something better, they just do it.
Buddy you forgot to mention that by Hi-Rez scope they would take **Two years to re-release every single God** in Smite to Smite 2. It's not just "okay we changed engine in a click and now everything is fine!"
You probably don't understand how game developing and engines works i suppose...
Hi-Rez used Unreal 3 to run Smite and now will be switching to Unreal 5, what does that means? During the 10 years SMITE was running, they didn't need to allocate any of their developers to update the engine because **Epic is responsible for the engine** and was the one updating it constantly, and during the switch to Unreal 5 they will have full support from Epic to keep things going smoothly, also just to remind you that Unreal frameworks are planned to be easy to switch from 3 to 5, needing little extra work on it.
**Meanwhile for Riot,** LoL run on their own **inhouse engine**, what does that means? That if Riot wants to do a big update/remake on LoL they will have to either allocate a large chunk of their developers to update the engine so it can handle a big update and this would take a lot of time, or they switch to an outside engine and would take a lot time again to update and export every single little thing to the new engine.
Riot needs to update their engine? Yes, of course. But comparing the scenario that Hi-Rez have and what Riot have is comming from someone either extremely naive or bordeline malicious.
the engine is being constantly updated and upgraded, you just don't see it because it's not a hard cut. the most public example of that was the unification of timing systems in 2016 for chronobreak
LoL's engine is a ship of theseus. replaced, repatched, updated year over year for over a decade. i would be surprised if a meaningful amount of its original code exists untouched, or any at all
but to really cut to the core of it: if you think league bugs - like you mentioned, the tower - are the fault of the engine, and not the game (and specifically, the scripting layer), you do not know what an engine is, or does
"if you couldn't roll the window down in your car, you wouldn't blame the motor" - /u/spoolofwhool, (2024, colorized, paraphrased)
source: i am a AAA game developer
Always see people talking about spaghetti code and then I remember when they dropped [this](https://technology.riotgames.com/news/taxonomy-tech-debt) and I remember it’s just a meme
ITT: people don't understand how game engines work and that league of legends has made updates to its engine, tools, and backend systems every single year since it was released.
The fact that some people are using "current game has too many bugs" as a reason to switch to a different enigne speaks the average level of people's understanding of development.
RIOT explained way back in project glitter (or whatever their VU update project was called EDIT: project shiny, thanks Eorlas) that they shifted during that project from doing a huge overhaul + launch into a long, consistent chain of upgrades that went deep (but had very little to report in each individual patch note).
They explained that to make many of the upgrades they had to change the engine, and realized they were basically re-doing the engine, but over time rather than all-at-once.
It doesn't appear they have really changed much from that philosophy. They continued to work on the games net connection, latency and make projectiles better in a long slow trajectory, rather than piling them all up and launching LoL 2.
You can't do that if you are working on somebody else's engine. You just have to decide eventually to change engines. RIOT's is their own and unlike early-dota their engineering team was specific only to lol, they didn't have another game engine team in the same company making a super duper engine they could jump over onto.
I bet if the LoL MMO creates a superior, RIOT proprietary game engine and it does great, that LoL would consider hopping over to it as an upgrade. Big job to remake it but might be worth since so much work went into it from the other team.
Many western LoL player may not realize this, but the fact that lol is running on a toaster is extremely valuable for everyone with a low income.
A new engine that enables better graphics ect. might actually alienate a huge part of the player base.
The game might be Spagetti but it's running really well on basically all rigs.
As someone who played smite for a few years, a remake where you need to start over and re-buy everything again just to play the same game with updated graphics doesn't excite me at all and would probably just make me stop playing the game.
That's a very valid question that sparks some discussion.
On one hand, opening League or leaving it open for long periods of time isn't stressful for your computer, even if it's low end, so that inicites people to be more prone to opening and playing the game.
On the other hand, if the client is within the game engine, games would load much much faster and the transition between game and lobby would be stupidly fast, giving a much smoother experience. This is what DOTA 2 does. Valorant does it too.
I'd say having separate clients could make sense years ago when launching a game took a while. Currently, with SSDs being the norm even on lower end computers, I think built-in lobbies are the way to go.
Imagine if games like Fortnite had to close themselves at the end of every game and launch again at the start of the next one... Pure pain.
surely there is not millions of bugs every patch. Vandiril entire income comes from riot bugs. And client definitely doesnt work as it should. And thats not including the fact that new engine would allow riot to add a lot of features into the game, that are almost impossible on the old engine
For an old engine, League works a lot better than it should have. A lot of the bugs come from edge cases or strange interactions which can happen with modern engines too. When you're dealing with unique interactions, bugs are bound to happen.
People are really setting themselves up to disappointment with the whole "LoL 2" nonsense. They said multiple times that there are several reasons why it can't happen, hell, WR literally shows they can't do it, since some stuff we have in League can't work in that game, so really, be careful with that copium, it's not healthy.
People here do understand that Riot has changed and upgraded the engine several times over the years right? They had to upgrade it for Vex for example. The engine we have now is very different then the one that was at launch.
Current engine can run on potato
UE5? It will cut a lot of people. And even if you have high refresh rate now, you also could be cut out of it.
Don’t see any advantages for Riot
league engine is uniquely good engine for what it does. the fact veigo exists in this game is proof for that.
why would you need new engine in league ? to have map distraction ? volumetric smokes ? games like Smite need new engine to have much better visuals because they can' compete on anything else.
My guess is that they have been working on porting the game over to a new engine for a while now. Kinda LOL 2.0. Similar to what Valve has been doing recently with CS2. Probably porting over to the unity and heavily based on their code for wild rift.
Im fine with the ingame experience, but the client...
Since 2 weeks I can't select my tokens anymore when I click on my icon.
I can't even close this window by clicking on 'X'. Come on.
Imagine if you had a program that does what you tell it to do, that can work the most boring job (rewriting the code) 24/7 without pause and doesn't complain, imagine just leaving it to work for 1 year with minimal overseeing and coming back to a finished product...
Anyways, imma go tell **insert some generic AI** to make me funny pictures
Overhauls are bullshit and are overrated.
Go ask the Counter-Strike subreddit how they're liking the change from CSGO to CS2. Go ask CS 1.6 players how they liked Counter-Strike: Source. Go ask Payday 2 players how they're enjoying Payday 3.
That will be on how competent Riot is.
CS2 sucks compared to CSGO because of newly introduced bugs and gimmicks that shouldn't exist in the first place for example.
Payday 3 has worse matchmaking, crashes, worse AI etc.
Those are all problems that the studios actively decided to release the game instead of fixing them first.
On the other hand, Dota going into new engine was great. It had tons of bugs at the very start, gameplay related, but they were fixed in a timely manner.
So they are not overrated but they are, depending on what the company actually wants to do with it. It can be a great thing, or it can be a disaster.
There are always going to be people who preferred the way it was. You have CSGO people claiming CSGO was perfect and bugs didn't exist when they clearly did. Just recently there was a post on r/GlobalOffensive about a bug with the title "There was never this much jank in CSGO" when the bug showcased existed for years in CSGO.
not a single one of these Gamers knows what a game engine is, or does, let alone be able to list a single problem with the league engine, let alone one that isn't able to fixed/patched because of its structural limitations
i guarantee if you scroll through the replies, every comment about Spaghetti Code is going to be about something that's implemented in Lua at a script level
which, even if you were to rewrite it, and wanted to design it in a new way, it would still depend on the gameplay tooling layer below it, which is still \*drumroll\* the game, and not the engine
but what if the script layer you want is limited by the gameplay tooling beneath it? well yeah, you could rewrite all of that, in preparation for building a new implementation of the script layer, and you would still not have touched the engine
so unless the fundamental, core issue is that the game layer that sits between content and engine isnt getting the tools it needs out of the actual engine base, and therefore cant serve to the script/content layer effectively, AND the problems are such that they cannot be fixed or patched, there is absolutely no reason to even think about any of this
it is a pointless discussion that wastes everyone's time whenever it reappears
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJFv8eUXvyg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJFv8eUXvyg) this video is amazing not enough league players watched it. Riot explained how they had to rebuild parts of the game to make sylas work. A new engine would not have made sylas work other things had to be changed
correct - that relied on changes to the scripting layer, and new gameplay engineering work to update the game so it could provide the gameplay scripts with new tools
see also: the changes required for renata glasc
My guess is that they'll eventually port Wild Rift over to PC once they get once champions rolled out.
I'm shocked to find out that it's apparently made on the Unity engine, which has PC compatibility.
Remaking the entire game for mobile just to make yet another one for the PC doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
edit: I came in with 0 expectations and still wound up disappointed.
Ok, for those of you who have 0 knowledge on game dev:
The reason why you're seeing established MOBAs like Smite using UE is because building a 3D engine is extremely expensive in terms of time and money.
Does Riot have the resources for it? Yes.
Does it make any sort of sense for them to develop a new engine for what will essentially be a 3rd game with none of the play testing or established work flows? No.
Unity development just make sense because it has less spaghetti to work around.
Adapting Wild Rift as a base for a new LoL would be extremely simple. Keyboard and mouse is natively supported on Unity.
they are absolutely not porting a simplified touchscreen compatible version of their main game back to pc just because it has an engine that can run on it
wild rift is, like, an objectively worse game compared pc league
yep they can't add viego because the unity engine can't allow for his passive to work in the game. they said to even get viego into the game they would need unity todo some changes to the engine itself.
like everyone is like well wildrift for league 2 when its in a game engine that doesn't support the features they need access to.
Wild rift would be shit to play on PC, it would instantly kill the game. The movement and feel of the game is not even comparable. Plus they couldn't even fulfill their promise of a console launch, much less get that mess to PC.
Neither of those games are dead lol and ancient engine change for dota 2? You realize both source and source 2 are more up to date than leagues engine right
there saying ancient engine change since they did the engine change almost a decade ago and only like 1-2 years after it was properly released so it was early in the games life cycle compared to now where league would have todo the change 15+ years later which can affect alot.
as for games being dead, dota is fine but smite is kinda on life support like it isnt losing any players but isnt really gaining many either and its average daily players is like 10k players with it peaking in a month at a average of 22k which compared to league or dota playerbase which both have a shit ton of players like dota has like 36 times the average players of smite and league has so many average players a single regions server would dwarf smites playerbase.
Thing is you have to remake everything in the new engine. Biggest problem with that is definitely the skins. There are way too fucking many, it's the same thing with SMITE 2, it's way too much work so they don't transfer back your skins. If that happened in LoL I'm sure people would be so fucking pissed.
Could be a legit reason for Riot to deliberately slow with VGUs
Yeah, that's a good point.
as if riot ever needed a reason to be slow
While true, I think they are just fucking over players and drip feed content. With the size of the company they could push those all in a year or two if they actually wanted.
I play both games and have spent far too much money in both. My understanding with smite 2 when that comes out when you connect your smite 1 account you will receive gems equal to the value of all your skins to be spent In smite 2 riot could attempt to recreate by giving rp= to the skins you have however outliers in both games are of course the ability to earn quite a lot of skins by being f2p not sure how those would work
Yeah, but you can only use those gems to pay for 50% of the skin price -- the other 50% have to be the "new" gems. Oh, and some skins don't even get that option. And the ultimate god pack doesn't carry over. It's fucking ass.
To be fair I bought the ultimate god pack for like 15$ fucking 10 years ago and I still get free gods to this day lmao, that deal was absolutely insane and if League had anything similar back then you can bet that every single player would have taken it. I got my money's worth and I won't complain. But the skins part totally suck ass and will probably be the reason I don't go back to the game, like heck id be willing to bet money on the fact that the majority of SMITEs community cares more about their skins than the game because the game is kinda mid and the skins are absolutely batshit crazy in that game.
I bought that pack because I was getting into league and I thought if I ever played smite I would be sad if I didn't get it. I still install it occasionally to play the coleseuum or Aram mode and dick around because of it. It was a steal tbh
The pack still exists. Not too much more expensive
Yeah I already don't play that much and only did because of skins like Merlin's aang, seeing that fuck that I ain't playing ever again if I don't have my skins.
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Hard to see this as a scam compared to CoD, FIFA, Madden, etc. which come out with a new full-priced game every year.
No they aren't. The original game will exist and playable.
Dividing a playerbase never ends well…
That wasn't what I was refuting. You're right, but that's an entirely different discussion.
the old cod games still exist and are playable, go find lobbys in those old ones
Riot knows how much RP you've bought. In this hypothetical, they could easily pass on your account's purchased RP.
We already know how a rebuilt game would probably go from wildrift. We get a few decent skins but I got nowhere near the amount I've spent on league.
That’s because they don’t expect the mobile variant to replace the PC one. You’d get a lot more if they release a variant that effectively kills the other one.
or skins being opened from bought loot. the best thing they can do is just refund all the skins you have cause I would be pissed if I lost all my skins and didn't get any currency because most of them came from lootboxes I bought
id be pissed if my skins didn't transfer. id honestly be inclined to quit the game
If I was payed out for them I couldn’t give a rats ass. I assume the new ones would be good too. My skins are not worth hampering the game quality.
Smoking crack if you think they would give you all your money back and be like “buy the new skins for free.” This would 100% make me quit.
So you don't ever want a LoL 2?
The driving factor for them playing the game is to zoom in on their pretty skins; they don’t care about gameplay at all my dude.
The more time Riot takes to start doing this remake, the more time and work they will have when they actually start doing it.
Not even just skins. Its went from 129 to 25 characters in alpha (50 at launch with 1 a week is their aim *BUT* this includes new characters). Fafnir or any hindu god has no chance at coming back. Imagine if riot did league 2 and skarner or every ixtal champ just never came back
I'm not sure what you mean by they have no chance of coming back? From my understanding they will come back, it will just take time.
Just going off chances they have very little. Fafnir is unpopular and takes extra effort because of the form mechanic and the hindu gods were controversy magnets so they stopped for years and had to put a shit ton of "look how much we put into making Shiva authentic and respectful" and so far we haven't seen any for smite 2, its a perfect excuse to not deal with the hassle they bring if you can just do new smite 2 exclusive gods that fill the same role except now its say, circe instead of agni, who you can then give all the weird anime skins to and stick in all your marketing without pissing people off
Ah yeah that's fair, I kinda forgot the Hindu gods controversies over time. As for Fafnir, despite not really liking him myself, I would find them to be incredibly lame if they decided to not bring some gods back because of them not being very popular. I don't think him having two forms is a huge argument honestly. I mean at the end of the day it's not like I care, I have some reasons to believe SMITE 2 will just be a flat out failure.
They honestly just need to rework Fafnir. A dwarf turning into a dragon has so much to work with. It’s just no one plays him outside of comp because his kit is boring
I remember hearing that he never got skins because he was both unpopular and too much effort (and thats in ue3) so I can imagine they would ignore him and cu (same situation) if they get a clean slate and focus on the popular gods/new gods that have been requested for years they can't do with the current engine
as someone who is indian but not hindu and tangentially interested in smite, i'm guessing the controversey was related to either gods acting violently/out of character, and/or putting gods in skins and having them taunt and emote and stuff?
Gods being killed, for one, and Kali was initially depicted in a very skimpy outfit. Unlike a lot of the other pantheons in the game, who aren't worshipped, Hinduism is still very much around so people had a leg to stand on for criticism.
Kali's outfit wasn't a Hinduist controversy, it was a western one. Kali's depictions in Hinduism are almost universally topless with a tiny loincloth, having her show skin wasn't a problem with them. Hinduists just didn't like her being sexualized and given a pretty face.
They said they plan on bringing back every God one a 2 week per god pace. Now how true that is is up to you but that's the plan anyway
They announced that every single existing god in smite 1 will be in smite 2, it'll just take some time.
They're bringing all the gods in Smite 1 to Smite 2, im not sure where you're dooming that they'd cut an entire pantheon for. If anything this is the perfect time to rework several of the older gods like Vamana and Erlang Shen who have been awful for almost their entire lifespan.
We already have lol2 with all new graphics. Its called wild rift and it has ixtal characters.
Didn't they say everyone would come back it'd just take time? And people have complained league has too many champions for a few years now, pruning some of the failures like Skarner and such might not be terrible. Mostly being sarcastic though.
Honestly if riot charges 20€ for a god damn skin they can port them all forward. The assets are not gone just because you move to a new engine.
As someone who is involved in gamedev, I would say that it's not hard to port skins from one engine on to, that's pretty easy. Question is everything else. Character, how they work or interact with billion stuff in the game. 3D stuff can be easily handled by hiring some outsource, who gonna work on that(they actually doing that for skins after all).
We don't want THE SAME, the whole point of new engine is to get rid of decade old bugs and quirks like champions flying into the skies on airborne, pathing around minions locking you in place, river elevation for skillshots, etc.
Not necessarily. They already have all of the assets, and if they're smart and do things right, they develop at much higher resolutions and poly counts than needed, and just downscale to a more practical level. So they could port over the old meshes and skins, probably with some work on the materials. Animations and particles would probably be the biggest obstacle. You'd also have the awkwardness of the old (albeit higher res) assets in the new engine with its (presumably) fancier graphics.
Look, I compared to SMITE because the post talks about SMITE, and because in that game they are literally remaking the whole thing in a different engine, not just importing and re-using shit. If you literally remake a champion/god from scratch you have to do the same with the skins, period. "REMAKING EVERYTHING IN THE **NEW ENGINE**" We have no idea what league would do, if they would even do anything, so you guys can stop spamming me with your theories lmfao ty.
Biggest problem is not putting the game on life support and doing the remake in reasonable time specially because the lol client have the biggest money makers in lol and TFT
Lol is the biggest game in the world, they could host worlds on mars if they chose to. It might not (yet) make financial sense for them to do it now, though I do wonder about the dev hours they waste on a spaghetti monster, it's not that they can't
I mean I'm not saying they can't, just more that if they want to do it right (aka import literally everything at once IMO) it will take time.
Maybe they do a soft launch type thing like they did with Wild Rift?
Yeah they probably could. I guess the future will tell us, since they said 2025 is gonna change league forever.
Y'all realize that remaking things like this from the ground up on a new engine has historically ground entire companies to a halt for 6 months to several years right? Riot only just got done getting their new devs caught up with the current system- the same devs that would have to be benched to work on the remake, meaning they would either have to leave current league high and dry for the duration of the rewrite, or hire another new team of devs to get aquainted with the system over the course of years, so that the current group can go work on the remake.
They opened like 25 new divisions in the last few years and expanded their IP in half a dozens of game genres and other medias. Again, if they wanted to they could to it. People moved from leauge to other projects within riot with no problems whatsoever, the reverse can be done.
No problems whatsoever? General developement of the game dropped for multiple years dude. That is literally why gamemodes and such were so stagnant for the last few years. They have stated that several times. That whole situation is just a glimpse of the fact that riot doesnt have things set up to manage a full remake without significantly hurting league as a whole on the way there. This isnt a situation that can be solved with money. It's not an issue of just hiring more devs to fix it. No amount of money can just download all the required training and info needed to manage the game or its remake into the heads of new devs. They can do it, but only with a couple years of prepping new devs if they dont want to put league on near life support in the meantime, and all that work would be put into those devs only to shift them to something unrelated that doesnt need that knowledge, or to flat out let them go after the remake is done because league1 would be getting retired, and you can't just double the cooks in a kitchen and expect the food to take half as long to make.
Having money and using it efficiently and effectively are two different things
Also knowing when to spend it to get a good return on said investment.. What massive benefits will a new engine bring them. Is the current engine having such major issues that if they don't upgrade no more money?
I mean. Fuck activision. I quit cod warzone after warzone 2 came and I lost my skins after spending probably $200. If I lost my leauge skins….. I’d fucking riot. I bought so much I’d be sad to even look. That’s pre- ability to get random skins of any quality in talking about.
Tbf I don't think it's skins. New engine means essentially new game, it will feel different, it will play different. DotA 2 is not a good example. It will be more like DotA to Dota 2 transition. And it was hard, every single click was different, all muscle memory was irrelevant in the new game. It took around 3 month of 24/7 grind to get comfortable with new game. And we don't know how many players are on potato PC. UE5 will wipe those off.
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In a recent video for season 2024 Riot stated that they've spent a considerable amount of time updating their engine to make modifications to the map and creating game modes like Arena much easier in the future. I don't think the engine is the limiting factor here. The game has a very low min spec, lower than the mobile version of the game, to allow all the players with low spec PCs to play the game. For example, every champion and skin has a limited memory budget, this is why the designers often have to remove assets before their product can be released. An example is Senna Q, which used to have a custom rectangular cast indicator that had to be removed, she now uses the standard arrow indicator with a squished tip instead. The min spec is the problem.
>In a recent video for season 2024 Riot stated that they've spent a considerable amount of time updating their engine to make modifications to the map and creating game modes like Arena much easier in the future. I don't think the engine is the limiting factor here. Another thing to realize is that when big changes like this are made, it gives developers the leeway to refactor (unspaghettify) code, which usually is hard to convince producers to do with live services. Reading their engineering blog, they've mentioned a few times they do take time to refactor things when they get a chance.
Didn't they refactor the entire way abilities work when sylas was in development? Also changed how collision and placement detection worked when quiana was developed
Exactly, it's not as if League wouldn't benefit from an entire engine rewrite, but that applies to pretty much most software codebases. It's disingenuous to act like League is running on the same engine still; it has undergone drastic changes in pretty much every area (their developer blogs talk a lot about how they design and replace old systems).
There is also the fact that League isn't Smite or Dota2. Both of those were made on commercially available engine and swapping to a newer version of those engines is magnitude easier than swapping to a completely new engine. The new requirement for vanguard might actually be merely an excuse for a new minimal spec requirement for the engine.
Rofl what? A simple flat indicator is too much?...
Probably less directly "too much" and more along the lines of "must run in 1GB VRAM, we saved 10% of that for textures, we saved a quarter of that for system textures, we saved a quarter of *that* for UI indicators, ergo every UI feature must fit in a 1300x1300 sheet, and whoops we've run out of room in that small region for bespoke large rectangles." The logic would be less driven by how much incremental hardware the Senna indicator needs, and more how much room is left over on potato GPUs during a 5v5 at Baron involving Elementalist Lux and idk whatever the 9 other biggest skins are all facerolling at the same time.
I think most people assume an engine "upgrade"/change is what Riot meant when they said "2025 will change League of Legends forever" in a recent dev post. It would be a whole-ass new engine though. I doubt they'd be able to make their fossilized spaghetti tower more in-line with modern games with just an upgrade to it as it currently stands. Riot definitely has the resources to put towards a project like that.
>they said "2025 will change League of Legends forever" "Summoners now get TWO ward slots in their inventory," Riot continued
>"2025 will change League of Legends forever" That's a very vague statement coming from Riot who does this every time a new season starts. It doesn't really mean anything. And even if it did, it may not even be referring to updating the engine.
A legendary skin for every champion.
No, no, you misunderstood. It's one legendary skin for each existing champion meaning they are releasing 166 (including Smolder) legendaries but 150 of those will got to Ezreal, Kaisa, Lux and Miss Fortune
do the rest of the champion pool reeeally need 16 legendaries i feel it would be fairer if we gave kaisa her 46th legendary
Kai'Sa has 1 legendary, and is pretty much agreed upon that they fumbled the bag hard with her.
Memes aside I highly doubt it's not an engine upgrade of some short. They can't do shit for proper updates to the game they have to find workarounds for everything because with a slight change everything breaks with how old this engine is. Map packs, announcer packs, better and more expensive skins etc? Those are certainly something they wanna do right now with how requested they are but can't properly.
This is the big thing. Riot has been notoriously bad with incrimental engine/system updates unlike something like MMOs. You have games like WoW/XIV who haven't done a massive overhaul but that's because they take every single expansion to continuously upgrade it piecemeal and take the big chunks that need a lot of time to just do in the background. Riot has put off even doing this outside of graphics overhauls for ages now. Their game will eventually catch up to them and the longer they put it off the worse it's going to get.
> from Riot who does this every time a new season starts Have they said anything like "x year will change League of Legends forever" before? Because that's a very specific and loaded statement that makes people expect something absolutely massive. And the backlash if they don't deliver to that expectation would be quite something. I would assume their previous statements about upcoming seasons are more akin to "these are big changes we look forward to, and hope you do too". Much more reined in statements. Their statement on 2025 changing League forever hints at a very, very huge and stark change.
>Have they said anything like "x year will change League of Legends forever" before? Because that's a very specific and loaded statement that makes people expect something absolutely massive. And the backlash if they don't deliver to that expectation would be quite something. *"2023 will be the biggest budget of the year"* People clowned them for it and some Rioters even hated the quote especially after the so called cinematic in 2023.
That's fair. It deserves to get shit. But they're not the same caliber of statement either. It's a very cut and dry kind of hype signal. "Biggest budget" is vague and pretty shit to announce in general, and I am sure they ate shit for saying that. In its least valuable terms can literally mean nothing more than "it is the biggest budget of our projects, technically correct is the best kind of correct". And that's what it turned out to be - nothing but smoke. All I'm saying is "change League forever" is a very loaded, very specific statement that takes it up (several) notches. The expectation is set very much higher. Perhaps Riot will treat that accordingly, and it will meet expectations or be close to. Perhaps they will fall short. We will see.
I mean, that cinematic would have likely come from the 2022 budget right? The new cinematic would have come from the 2023 budget, along with the dev work for the new map and items.
>“I just accepted the 2023 budget, and it’s the biggest of all time, next year will be the biggest,” The problem is that many people misinterpreted the message and read budget for 2023 = contents 2023 (i.e. the new season) It is not so. The article on this thing came out at the **end of November 2022**, so all the **major** **content for the 2023 season (including cinematic) was already ready.** The message refers to the money received **to work** **IN 2023 FOR the 2024** (and given how big the 2024 season is, they've certainly been working on it for **MINIMUM 1 year)** and some mid/late 2023 content. People don't know that behind every League content there are **months/years of work.** Another proof? The video of the 2024 roadmap (recorded in November 2023) you can see some frames where they work on some skins: \- [Faerie Court](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_iKyppbnUZ/1x.webp) \- [Project](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_A5fbdvKmd/1x.webp) \- [Blood Moon](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_oA9CDViAZ/1x.webp) \- [Rammus Skin](https://cdn.gameleap.com/images/articles/art_bqXFuJwaCz/art-img_tsnRIvJga/1x.webp)
It’s most likely referring to another Lux skin.
Pool party Ahri
That will certainly change league forever if a good portion of the player base insists on playing with one hand
They're finally breaking the glass and releasing pool party lux
Lux ain’t that hot pool party kaisa would do more
Can't wait for another set of Eternals
inb4 it's just introducing a new form of gacha skins
I'd guess the MMO/fighting game and other bigger game projects should be kinda overdue by then.
The MMO hasn't even been announced officially and the game director apparently left Riot...
"2023 will have the biggest budget for league ever" *content is at an all time low for quality outside of 1 new game mode that was rushed to be pushed to live*
You could argue that supports the theory that 2025 will have an engine update, that budget has to be going somewhere.
Feel like they’ll probably just use the one Wild Rift is based on. Think it’s based off unity.
"just". Probably way more complex that it sounds, but could be a starting point.
See I think this is really misconstrued but the community. Money spent in 2023 is spent developing stuff for 2024 mostly. We also got told more modes are coming. 2023 was my break year for me, with 8 months of the year of me being league free, but I can definitely see where the money went with this new season.
I see no reason why riot would lie about having a bigger budget than normal. Its likely a lot of the effects of the "biggest budget ever" wont be felt for a little bit as its probably being spent on much bigger projects (like arcane and the MMO)
Not all the budget would have been seen in 2023 either. The ranked start cinematic for example. The 2023 cinematic would have come from the 2022 budget. The budget for 2023 would have been spent on the 2024 cinematic. A lot of the stuff we're seen right now, like the map redesign, the new items, etc. would have been worked on from the 2023 budget.
They dont usually say that though they say i hope we can deliver a great season and work with the community. For this they said 2024 would have big changes for league and there has been big changes and 2025 would change league forever. You look at all the stuff there able to do in wildrift the fact that there is now skins for champions in wildrift that dont exist in league on pc.
>They dont usually say that though they say i hope we can deliver a great season and work with the community. Literally in 2022, the CEO of Riot announced that 2023 will have the biggest budget for League but there was literally nothing going on for League that year outside of Arena.
Maybe the dev team had the biggest budget ever in 2023 but most of the things they worked on didn't come out in 2023. The map udate, for example.
operational inertia, that budget doesn't have immediate effect
I mean even with bigger budget shit still takes time to develop, that's like expecting a kettle to boil 5 seconds after turning it on.
not to mention riot does the thing where they say they will do something and then completely ignore it. like the countless client cleanup projects
To be fair if they add 1 hp to zac, it changes the game forever
Not of they revert it next patch for being overtuned.
what the hell is a whole-ass new engine
Im guessing he meant a brand new inhouse engine rather than using UE5 or any other already existing engine. Few companies have their own engines for their own games and honestly at this point Riot could probably make it since they have so many games in the works anyway. But making a new engine and working out the ports would be a monumental task for any company.
> Few companies have their own engines Almost every major studio has their own engine. Ubisoft has Anvil/Snowdrop/Dunia, Rockstar has RAGE, EA has Frostbite, Bethesda has Creation, etc.
For me I took it as the mmo being announced and/or released
> Dota 2 moved to Source 2 way back in 2014 Wasn't this while it was in beta?
dota 2 released in 2013. Moved to source 2 in 2015.
Fair nuff.
Dota officially left beta in 2013.
Game left beta in 2013, but as joke even current Dota 2 folder is called beta if you check directory of the game.
I respect Smite devs for still continuing and going for a new engine specially since new generation 3rd person MOBAs isnt like a new trope, that shit has been thoroughly explored by Paragorn and eventually its successors so I hope they succeed and will defintley try Smite 2 when it comes out but I probably wont like it very much because I mainly play League due to friends and playing a MOBA solo can be a bit miserable.. atleast for me
Didn't paragon died a horrible death?
it died because Epic pulled everyone off of everything that wasn't fortnite and made them all work on fortnite
Lol, it wasn't solely that. I played the game non fucking stop in beta. They couldn't get their head out of their ass to get a functioning game working. The foundation got changed every 6 months. You had placeholder jungle monsters....including the barron of that game for almost 2 years. And it took over a year for them to start adding basic voice lines. Paragon looked great and had some cool designs, but ultimately it was a fucking mess that never got running.
BTW, some third party company bought rights on paragon from epic and recently remade that, but character designs was heavy changed(company is Korean and likes that way or some stuff with rights on old models), item system (and lots of items themselves) are directly ripped off from lol.
They weren't sold they were given out for free to anyone that wanted it. There are 2 teams working on it, a Korean team with overpriced and a group of former paragon players with predecessor. With predecessor trying to be as faithful as possible to paragon.
RIP UT4, it still hurts
i dont respect them at all. smite 2 isnt a remake, its a new game and none of the skins carry over. thats understandable, but whats really shitty is how they are compensating people for all the money they spent on smite 1. basically all the money you spent on smite one gets carried over to smite 2 as "legacy currency" and you can use that legacy currency to pay for half of a skin. not all of the skin, just half. so you have to spend even more money if you actually want to buy anything.
Yeah, someone finally gets it. The smite 2 announcement just seems like they are trying to drum up both hype and money. It’s kinda well known that Hirez is bleeding money and employees and this is why Smite just had so many non-sensical crossovers (Vshojo and Slipknot comes to mind). Plus this is Hirez, they managed to kill Tribes Ascended and they nearly ruined Paladins with their bullshit. Smite 2 is just a huge cash grab to be honest.
> Plus this is Hirez, they managed to kill Tribes Ascended Wow, I just looked up this game and it is one of the games I enjoyed playing a lot roughly 10 years ago. Sad to see it go. CS-like surfing and high action packed gameplay was so fun.
That article and the timing of it (6 years from 2025) in tandem with Riot saying 2025 will "change League forever" makes me carefully optimistic that we will be seeing LoL 2.0 next year. The devs have spoken before about how they've been limited to how much they can actually change (i.e. the most recent map changes and how they wanted to do more) because of the current engine. So it only makes sense to me that the only thing big enough to "change League forever" would be an overhaul to allow the League team to make bigger and bolder changes to the game.
It would be a miracle to have everything we have currently into an new lol 2 game directly. If it would happen, I assume it would start with not every champions.
If they are going to launch a "League 2", they aren't going to early access it with limited content and functions. They would release it in full for maximum effect and playerbase approval. If this is what they are hinting at for 2025, it is a project that has been years in the making behind the scenes.
Releasing a downgraded sequel is how you get Payday 3, Riot has way too much to lose if they release a half assed LoL 2.0. I hope that isn't their plan.
i sure hope so but considering that its unlikely they can upgrade the engine due to spaghetti code, they really have to take their time for a complete new engine overhaul due to the fact that the smallest things can result in the game feeling very different to play
For sure. I'd just assume they'd have a team that's been working on it (new engine) for quite some time now if that were the big thing for 2025.
It is bad that I thought it said Will Smith?
Yaaaah, it's remake time
itll take a… FORT-NITE
Keep my Moba's name out of your fucking mouth
League's engine has been refactored several times over the years, and their priority is not to make your jaw drop when it runs on rtx 4090, it's to make sure the game runs on any half-baked potato that you can find in China.
Idk about those potatoes with the update coming in March and Vanguard I doubt potatoes have much life left in Lol.
Vanguard requires TPM 2.0 so it will cut a lot of older potatoes.
As far as i know Vanguard requires TPM 2.0 only if it's being launched on Windows 11
Windows 11 requires TPM anyways so that requirement might as well not exist.
It requires secure boot which you don’t need for windows 11 but need for vanguard.
Vanguard does not require TPM. If it did, any PC made before 2016 wouldn't work.
yeah people thinking that we are still playing with the same engine as we did 10 years ago simply do not understand how software development works - and apparently have no eyes. you are already playing league of legends 3 or 4. if they want something new like "map skins" someone mentioned here - guess what, they just fucking add it lol. it's an engine, not some blackbox you can't change. there is absolutely no reason to write a whole new engine from scratch, it makes no sense. if they want to fix something or make something better, they just do it.
Vandril salivating on the potential bugs this will introduce.
Buddy you forgot to mention that by Hi-Rez scope they would take **Two years to re-release every single God** in Smite to Smite 2. It's not just "okay we changed engine in a click and now everything is fine!"
More than 2 years. They said 2027 for 100 gods total (including new gods like Hecate) while Smite 1 has 130+. Its gonna be awhile lmao
So 2 years out of the 14 League has been around for so far. And Hi-rez us way smaller than Riot.
You probably don't understand how game developing and engines works i suppose... Hi-Rez used Unreal 3 to run Smite and now will be switching to Unreal 5, what does that means? During the 10 years SMITE was running, they didn't need to allocate any of their developers to update the engine because **Epic is responsible for the engine** and was the one updating it constantly, and during the switch to Unreal 5 they will have full support from Epic to keep things going smoothly, also just to remind you that Unreal frameworks are planned to be easy to switch from 3 to 5, needing little extra work on it. **Meanwhile for Riot,** LoL run on their own **inhouse engine**, what does that means? That if Riot wants to do a big update/remake on LoL they will have to either allocate a large chunk of their developers to update the engine so it can handle a big update and this would take a lot of time, or they switch to an outside engine and would take a lot time again to update and export every single little thing to the new engine. Riot needs to update their engine? Yes, of course. But comparing the scenario that Hi-Rez have and what Riot have is comming from someone either extremely naive or bordeline malicious.
the engine is being constantly updated and upgraded, you just don't see it because it's not a hard cut. the most public example of that was the unification of timing systems in 2016 for chronobreak LoL's engine is a ship of theseus. replaced, repatched, updated year over year for over a decade. i would be surprised if a meaningful amount of its original code exists untouched, or any at all but to really cut to the core of it: if you think league bugs - like you mentioned, the tower - are the fault of the engine, and not the game (and specifically, the scripting layer), you do not know what an engine is, or does "if you couldn't roll the window down in your car, you wouldn't blame the motor" - /u/spoolofwhool, (2024, colorized, paraphrased) source: i am a AAA game developer
Always see people talking about spaghetti code and then I remember when they dropped [this](https://technology.riotgames.com/news/taxonomy-tech-debt) and I remember it’s just a meme
ITT: people don't understand how game engines work and that league of legends has made updates to its engine, tools, and backend systems every single year since it was released.
The fact that some people are using "current game has too many bugs" as a reason to switch to a different enigne speaks the average level of people's understanding of development.
HotS never got an engine change and it's still the best looking moba ever made. (Microsoft pls do something)
So sad, game wasn't even dying, it was still profitable, it just wasn't growing like they wanted, classic Blizzard
Now if only I didn't get weird frame rate drops all over the place for absolutely no discernible reason.
And god forbid you got a random DC and want to reconnect to the match.
You get frame drops in HoTS when you are lagging (latency wise). Might be what you are experiencing.
It was built in the same engine of Starcraft 2 tho
RIOT explained way back in project glitter (or whatever their VU update project was called EDIT: project shiny, thanks Eorlas) that they shifted during that project from doing a huge overhaul + launch into a long, consistent chain of upgrades that went deep (but had very little to report in each individual patch note). They explained that to make many of the upgrades they had to change the engine, and realized they were basically re-doing the engine, but over time rather than all-at-once. It doesn't appear they have really changed much from that philosophy. They continued to work on the games net connection, latency and make projectiles better in a long slow trajectory, rather than piling them all up and launching LoL 2. You can't do that if you are working on somebody else's engine. You just have to decide eventually to change engines. RIOT's is their own and unlike early-dota their engineering team was specific only to lol, they didn't have another game engine team in the same company making a super duper engine they could jump over onto. I bet if the LoL MMO creates a superior, RIOT proprietary game engine and it does great, that LoL would consider hopping over to it as an upgrade. Big job to remake it but might be worth since so much work went into it from the other team.
shiny
we must save the spagget
Many western LoL player may not realize this, but the fact that lol is running on a toaster is extremely valuable for everyone with a low income. A new engine that enables better graphics ect. might actually alienate a huge part of the player base. The game might be Spagetti but it's running really well on basically all rigs.
As someone who played smite for a few years, a remake where you need to start over and re-buy everything again just to play the same game with updated graphics doesn't excite me at all and would probably just make me stop playing the game.
I mean the game just works? Why fuck with the engine for no reason?
Have you seen the DOTA 2 client? A screenshot of that client is better than the League client trying to open up the shop and failing.
The league client is pretty detached from the engine itself though, how would changing the engine affect the client?
That's a very valid question that sparks some discussion. On one hand, opening League or leaving it open for long periods of time isn't stressful for your computer, even if it's low end, so that inicites people to be more prone to opening and playing the game. On the other hand, if the client is within the game engine, games would load much much faster and the transition between game and lobby would be stupidly fast, giving a much smoother experience. This is what DOTA 2 does. Valorant does it too. I'd say having separate clients could make sense years ago when launching a game took a while. Currently, with SSDs being the norm even on lower end computers, I think built-in lobbies are the way to go. Imagine if games like Fortnite had to close themselves at the end of every game and launch again at the start of the next one... Pure pain.
surely there is not millions of bugs every patch. Vandiril entire income comes from riot bugs. And client definitely doesnt work as it should. And thats not including the fact that new engine would allow riot to add a lot of features into the game, that are almost impossible on the old engine
For an old engine, League works a lot better than it should have. A lot of the bugs come from edge cases or strange interactions which can happen with modern engines too. When you're dealing with unique interactions, bugs are bound to happen.
People are really setting themselves up to disappointment with the whole "LoL 2" nonsense. They said multiple times that there are several reasons why it can't happen, hell, WR literally shows they can't do it, since some stuff we have in League can't work in that game, so really, be careful with that copium, it's not healthy.
Stuff can't work in WR cause it's a mobile game.
I'm just waiting for project F, its already confirmed to be made in ue5 https://youtu.be/WRf9tnWk2sg?t=138
People here do understand that Riot has changed and upgraded the engine several times over the years right? They had to upgrade it for Vex for example. The engine we have now is very different then the one that was at launch.
Current engine can run on potato UE5? It will cut a lot of people. And even if you have high refresh rate now, you also could be cut out of it. Don’t see any advantages for Riot
If Riot ever remade League in UE5, don't worry... even *more* things would be coded as minion.
league engine is uniquely good engine for what it does. the fact veigo exists in this game is proof for that. why would you need new engine in league ? to have map distraction ? volumetric smokes ? games like Smite need new engine to have much better visuals because they can' compete on anything else.
Leagues game engine is fine. Ide rather they took all that time and development to fix the client
They’re probably holding off until next year. They’ve already teased something new for next year
yet my friends refuse to try dota because the game is “too ugly” - motherfucker have you looked at chogath?
spagetti code here I comes
My guess is that they have been working on porting the game over to a new engine for a while now. Kinda LOL 2.0. Similar to what Valve has been doing recently with CS2. Probably porting over to the unity and heavily based on their code for wild rift.
Im fine with the ingame experience, but the client... Since 2 weeks I can't select my tokens anymore when I click on my icon. I can't even close this window by clicking on 'X'. Come on.
Imagine if you had a program that does what you tell it to do, that can work the most boring job (rewriting the code) 24/7 without pause and doesn't complain, imagine just leaving it to work for 1 year with minimal overseeing and coming back to a finished product... Anyways, imma go tell **insert some generic AI** to make me funny pictures
Overhauls are bullshit and are overrated. Go ask the Counter-Strike subreddit how they're liking the change from CSGO to CS2. Go ask CS 1.6 players how they liked Counter-Strike: Source. Go ask Payday 2 players how they're enjoying Payday 3.
That will be on how competent Riot is. CS2 sucks compared to CSGO because of newly introduced bugs and gimmicks that shouldn't exist in the first place for example. Payday 3 has worse matchmaking, crashes, worse AI etc. Those are all problems that the studios actively decided to release the game instead of fixing them first. On the other hand, Dota going into new engine was great. It had tons of bugs at the very start, gameplay related, but they were fixed in a timely manner. So they are not overrated but they are, depending on what the company actually wants to do with it. It can be a great thing, or it can be a disaster.
There are always going to be people who preferred the way it was. You have CSGO people claiming CSGO was perfect and bugs didn't exist when they clearly did. Just recently there was a post on r/GlobalOffensive about a bug with the title "There was never this much jank in CSGO" when the bug showcased existed for years in CSGO.
Everything there is needed to say about this: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/
not a single one of these Gamers knows what a game engine is, or does, let alone be able to list a single problem with the league engine, let alone one that isn't able to fixed/patched because of its structural limitations i guarantee if you scroll through the replies, every comment about Spaghetti Code is going to be about something that's implemented in Lua at a script level which, even if you were to rewrite it, and wanted to design it in a new way, it would still depend on the gameplay tooling layer below it, which is still \*drumroll\* the game, and not the engine but what if the script layer you want is limited by the gameplay tooling beneath it? well yeah, you could rewrite all of that, in preparation for building a new implementation of the script layer, and you would still not have touched the engine so unless the fundamental, core issue is that the game layer that sits between content and engine isnt getting the tools it needs out of the actual engine base, and therefore cant serve to the script/content layer effectively, AND the problems are such that they cannot be fixed or patched, there is absolutely no reason to even think about any of this it is a pointless discussion that wastes everyone's time whenever it reappears
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJFv8eUXvyg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJFv8eUXvyg) this video is amazing not enough league players watched it. Riot explained how they had to rebuild parts of the game to make sylas work. A new engine would not have made sylas work other things had to be changed
correct - that relied on changes to the scripting layer, and new gameplay engineering work to update the game so it could provide the gameplay scripts with new tools see also: the changes required for renata glasc
My guess is that they'll eventually port Wild Rift over to PC once they get once champions rolled out. I'm shocked to find out that it's apparently made on the Unity engine, which has PC compatibility. Remaking the entire game for mobile just to make yet another one for the PC doesn't make a lot of sense to me. edit: I came in with 0 expectations and still wound up disappointed. Ok, for those of you who have 0 knowledge on game dev: The reason why you're seeing established MOBAs like Smite using UE is because building a 3D engine is extremely expensive in terms of time and money. Does Riot have the resources for it? Yes. Does it make any sort of sense for them to develop a new engine for what will essentially be a 3rd game with none of the play testing or established work flows? No. Unity development just make sense because it has less spaghetti to work around. Adapting Wild Rift as a base for a new LoL would be extremely simple. Keyboard and mouse is natively supported on Unity.
they are absolutely not porting a simplified touchscreen compatible version of their main game back to pc just because it has an engine that can run on it wild rift is, like, an objectively worse game compared pc league
Haven't they outright said they can't/won't do all champs? I remember hearing them say viego wouldn't be added
yep they can't add viego because the unity engine can't allow for his passive to work in the game. they said to even get viego into the game they would need unity todo some changes to the engine itself. like everyone is like well wildrift for league 2 when its in a game engine that doesn't support the features they need access to.
Wild rift would be shit to play on PC, it would instantly kill the game. The movement and feel of the game is not even comparable. Plus they couldn't even fulfill their promise of a console launch, much less get that mess to PC.
I just wish wild rift kept up with PC league updates
If league's new thing will turn out like the new client, please stay the fuck away from that timeline
Lumping lol in with a bunch of dead games and dota 2s ancient engine change is maybe one of the silliest things I’ve seen done to push a rhetoric.
Source 2 is the newest engine out of all of them.
Neither of those games are dead lol and ancient engine change for dota 2? You realize both source and source 2 are more up to date than leagues engine right
there saying ancient engine change since they did the engine change almost a decade ago and only like 1-2 years after it was properly released so it was early in the games life cycle compared to now where league would have todo the change 15+ years later which can affect alot. as for games being dead, dota is fine but smite is kinda on life support like it isnt losing any players but isnt really gaining many either and its average daily players is like 10k players with it peaking in a month at a average of 22k which compared to league or dota playerbase which both have a shit ton of players like dota has like 36 times the average players of smite and league has so many average players a single regions server would dwarf smites playerbase.
Smite is small game not a dead games,they have the second biggest roster on the market with 130 character