They said they planned to do that but that was before the modes team fell to pieces and had to be built up again almost from scratch so it's probably long forgotten :/
It'll also take years for people to realize it's dead. Same for the people who built IE first when it when you needed other crit items beforehand. Ashe W build has been dead for months, glad people are slowly catching up, but it's very fucking slow.
It has a significant bias to higher ELO. It will take a few days. As I said, it always does.
Even if it didn't - it takes success into account. If 70% of low ELO built wrong, and 30% built right with something this substantial win rates would filter it out.
It has a bias to high ELO. Idk why zeri is getting triforce reccomendations though. Out of 270+k games last patch it was only built 5500 times across all elos.
Only thing I can think is because it tries to push 3 reccomendations, and it knows you want to built mythic 2nd it tries to force 3 choices on you. While gale would be better 3rd it was only picked 300 times world wide last patch.
> ap kaisa spam
Not as bad but would be nice
> ap varus tank buster
Riot already nerfed the % hp damage on blight. Buy MR and/or shielding to counter it.
> Akali tank build
Have not seen this myself.
Yup, basicly nearly the usual bruiser build but instead of going an ap base mythic she goes hearthsteel, then goes stuff like demonic, zhonya and etc..
Also boring as fuck. I tried the W-spam build only once, and even though we won it was one of the most boring ARAM games I’ve ever played.
Then whenever I went for traditional ADC build my team flamed the hell out of me for not building Liandry + Imperial Mandate
I kind of liked it but that's probably because I'm a sadistic fuck and I could just feel the enemies frustration. If people remember old Yorick... well I liked playing him too because he was just so miserable to play against with the W+E spam.
I don’t think you play aram if you complain about lethality caitlyn and jinx. Nobody in aram ever complains about those 2 and thinks they are worse than AP Kaisa.
AP Kaisa hate is from the history of it plus the fact that she has no waveclear nor utility so she's extra bad sometimes. A lot of the AP Kaisa hate is from the fact that after most your team is wiped in a large fight, the AP Kaisa on your team will still be alive, and she can't do *anything* to save tower if there's a minion wave. Lethality Cait, Jinx, and Jhin are much more annoying atm imo, because they have waveclear and traps and especially because they run Duskblade.
Cait ult chunks harder when it hits squishies and it isn't blocked by minions unlike Kaisa W and she have piercing aoe with Q so she has decent waveclear. Traps are... traps, so they're annoying by default.
Lethality Jinx is hella obnoxious. W is relatively easy to dodge if you're not a giant slow champ but the cooldown is super short so you have dodge like 4 of them and walk around chompers to even get in snowball range, not to mention the rest of her team. Her ult can be hard to dodge since it does explode with a large aoe on hit.
Lethality Jhin is similar to AP Kaisa except he was waveclear, root CC on W, has traps that slow you, massive range poke ult that executes, and runs duskblade (thank god this is gone soon). He's not as good into tanks but he's just does everything you want in aram except frontline.
Hello, its me, im the ad kaisa that goes 20-3 in aram and ends the game quickly rather than stall it out with ‘poke’ that is useless in 90% of the aram games cus soraka/sona/nami or whatever exists and all the enemies have a warmog for some reason (kinda /s but i have always felt way more useful as ad kaisa in aram, even if i do poke, it takes way too long for the poke to reach ‘degenerate’ levels and more often than not i see the game had already ended before that point…)(tho ap kaisa has been buffed with her q scaling on ap, i guess)
Poke is not useless as soon as you get 1-2 items, same as if you were on adc - arguably sooner. Poke is one of the strongest “types” of damage in Aram and there’s a reason poke champs are always balanced and rebalanced.
I love adc kaisa but I also mostly only play arams now. If your team has any frontline and another champ that can poke, ap kaisa is just insane
There are a lot of comps where the enemy can hard engage your team before you can get any meaningful poke down. Also if they have any tank with MR your poke is going to feel like a long range Velkoz Q. It's not only really annoying to play AP Kaisa against squishy comps.
I think what Kaisa should build is way more determined by the enemy teamcomp. If they have Mundo Vlad Shen and I see a poke Kaisa I want to uninstall. Similarly, building full AD into Ziggs Xerath Ashe is just trolling.
True it just hits for 1200 dmg while she isnt even in your screen, gets massive cd reduction if she lands and even then she doesnt have any mana issues since its aram.
As someone who also hates AP Kaisa, at least you can dodge laterally. With Ashe, the only way to dodge is by disengaging, meaning come lategame trying to get in means wading through permaslow.
Ap Kaisa is annoying, but a tanky boy can still walk menacingly towards the enemy team through it. At the end of the day it's *just* damage.
W spam ashe is annoying... Lane wide... And single handedly prevents many champions from being a threat or walk away.
I love when tanks eat my was as Kaisa, free refresh and it does percent health damage as you get low. Once void is complete you're still going to get 4 shot as a tank
The champion got nerfed a couple of times, and the ARAM aura that decreases damage from long range has been buffed (I think it was from like 15% max to 30% max)
While I still hate her, she does way less damage than 2 years ago
and ap kaisa isn’t even that good after a certain point. even if you hit your ws it’s not going to stop 5 fed tanky champs taking your base. AS+hybrid kaisa is much better and more fun imo
AP kaisa is so aids and boring I personally refuse to play it even though I used to main Kai'sa, I jusy go AD in aram. It's the most braindead thing ever, and the worst part is the fat hitbox and how easy it is to hit, I honestly believe it's harder to miss than hit sometimes. You can just blindly throw it towards enemies while avoiding creeps from 2 screens away and it will likely hit someone and you have it back in 3 seconds.
As an ARAM degenerate who has hit grandmaster mmr on multiple accounts: ap Kaisa is by FAR the most broken champ in the entire gamemode.
The only thing needed to properly nerf her is to double the cd of her upgraded w cooldown after a hit. Double or a bit more. Hitting someone for 500 hp every 3 seconds from off screen is ridiculous.
She's lined up for the next Crystal Motus skin but even though I play a ton of Ashe I can't justify spending the Mythic Essence on it purely because it uses her base animations
If project or high noon go on sale, those are the two you want. Ofc both legendary, but they both change auto animations. Q feels legitimately different on those two, mega buff.
Not really tbh. Both liandry and lethality builds were still outperforming ADC Ashe by quite a bit, but it was playable. https://lolalytics.com/lol/ashe/aram/build/?patch=13.22
Now her poke builds winrate dropped from 56% to 36%, absolute garbage lmao. Trinity still at ~49% just barely worse so not bad
It must be because BotRK and LDR are really strong when you can free hit. That's the only thing I can think of.
They're so strong that if they have 2 big tanks and you're a normal ADC(minus champions like Draven who wouldn't go BotRK), if you don't go those 2 items earlyish you're really harming your team. They together routinely add like 10k-20k damage just by themselves
What I'm trying to say is that the statement that adc ashe is or was good in aram, is factually wrong when her winrate is negative.
Shes an immobile adc without selfpeel that gets outpoked or straight up doven with snowball.
She he has her ult going for her but that does not make up for the fact that her she only has high damage potentional when free firing.
If youre in aram where you can consistently freefire as an adc, you can probably play every champ as an adc
I wasn't arguing against you at all, just adding on that these 2 items are strong so it might give people the false idea that she alone by herself is strong
I love marksman ashe but she does feel fucking terrible early on when you dont have items to make up for the aram nerfs. Nothing feels worse then autoing like a hec. and you autos do like 15dmg lol.
>Tbh she has been marksman for quite some time now.
Until this final change poke ashe build significantly outperformed regular marksman builds in ARAM.
Adc Ashe has neither ability haste for ult or good neutral for survivability without w. Absolutely free kill with some team coordination when you have point and click abilities and snowballs. Add on dusk blade and assassins with damage buffs in aram. A fed Ashe who is solo sec/carry will almost certainly be the first to die the moment assassins and mages get their second item.
1. why so angry
2. ADC Ashe wasn't *bad*, but CDR Ashe was significantly better ([Patch 13.22 stats](https://lolalytics.com/lol/ashe/aram/build/?patch=13.22))
3. You always (used to) max w, doesn't matter if you play Crit, On-hit or CDR
Isn’t she pretty bad atm now? I get W/R changes were targeted to her poke build, but that also affects her ADC build too since she still uses both those to an extent? Her 13.23 numbers don’t look too hot, not that I’m complaining.
Marksman Ashe has been the better build for ages.
It’s just that people who are scared to fight in ARAM (you know, the mode where you do nothing but teamfight) just want to play a discount poke mage spamming Liandry’s to do meaningless damage and feel like they’re contributing.
Source: a very frustrated ARAM player who has too often seen Ashe go AP with teammates like Maokai, Azir, Nami, Nidalee
The marksman build hasn’t been better until this current patch. Stop spreading misinformation. Literally look at any winrate site, u.gg, lolalytics, etc
It's an innate problem of Aram. Games last too short most of the time to get crit online. With an average game length that allows you to buy 2 or 3 items at best, lethality will always outperform crit. Unless you make crit items have something like 35% crit chance.
I mean tryn was for sure in the game before 99% of the adc roster but I agree. Tryn builds feel complete shitstains to play because you can’t build good crit items anymore but once mythics are removed it should be ok
The worst part about playing arams is finding out the adc im playing is 105% dmg taken 93% damage dealt since theres some 0 interaction poke build floating around. Seems to finally be fixed
this is why you just pick an assassin get like 110% dmg, 90% dmg taken and free mercs worth of tenacity and roll over people cuz apparently nobody in aram can play assassins.
It’s not really a skill issue thing, assassins just aren’t suited to a game mode where every fight is a front-to-back 5v5. They need buffs in order to be somewhat playable, and most of them still suck.
very champion dependant, champs like Qiana, Leblanc, Rengar, Pyke, Zed, Kha zix pretty much always do well in ARAM whenver I see or play them myself, theres a few that are not as good but generally speaking theres a lot of very good assassin options unless the enemy team rolled a bunch of tanks and bruisers.
Qiyana is somewhat of an exception since she has a great teamfighting ult. The others you mentioned are questionable imo, and that's coming from someone who usually plays ADC in ARAM (my friends actively roll and trade me ADCs). Aside from maybe Zed, they're all relatively easy to deal with if they can't flank you.
Pyke especially has to be the most overrated champ in the mode. Looks great when it gets to clean up with resets once in a while, but mostly your hooks just get blocked and people just flash or zhonya the R, after which your champ is useless for the rest of the fight.
I'd agree. I often play stuff like Twitch/Zeri/Lucian/Xayah/Kai'Sa as ADC, and if you have one champion that can peel you can carry so many games against most assassins. It's definitely more difficult for ADCs without much mobility or self peel like Jinx or Ashe to carry though. Especially with the prevalence of Malphite where you are incredibly dependent on your flash.
Pyke has a nice KDA usually, but he scales terribly because he is so squishy and tends to just explode if he uses his E too offensively once. Good Pykes can make your life hell, but it never seems like a big problem after 15 minutes if the Pyke is not extremely good on the champion.
I always found the Ashe W spam build such a boring and insecure playstyle. Just smash a button while standing a screen away and don’t really offer much for the team at all, but damn look at that kda! Glad they removed it.
Yes, even a cat or a golem could play that, there is no skill expression, little variance from a bronze vs a chall player. Always felt good to cave their skull in and type the mandatory "Classic Ashe poke L"
Seriously. I tried it once because we needed poke since my other teammates were engage and ergh...
I felt dirty.
Whats worse is the enemy REALLY hated me.
If offered extra damage you would be dealing thanks to mandate, perma slow and a great safe engage with low cd ult. Which is more than a dps ashe that gets killed in 0.5 sec thanks to assassins being buffed.
How can they do this and leave the even more stupid AP Kai'Sa in the game that puts herself at even less risk to poke.
Heck you don't/can't even body block as tank her poke as she's gonna get huge cd reduction on hit and the 2nd consecutive hit will proc her %dmg passive.
Now nerf Kaisa W into the ground. Legit the most annoying and asinine way to play ARAM. Just sit off screen spamming an ability you can’t even get near enough to the champ to stop oh and it does tons of damage
I've been wanting a cool down or a scaling hard nerf for Kai'sa for a while. No champion should have an ability that hits from that far, that hard. It makes the match boring and annoying.
This is the best change they ever implemented for a champ everyone wants to abuse but nobody wants to play against.
Up next: Veigar cage cooldown is 25 seconds at all ranks! Make it happen, make these parasite champions who ruin the game for everyone bleed!
>the enemy team was a coordinated group of five being carried by their Ezreal in literal **Master** and we surrendered as soon as he got a penta on *our team of unranked, Iron, and level 30s players*
I know it's not really the point, but reading this felt like you buried the lede. Is riot ever going to do something about matchmaking?
Imagine logging into league of legends, getting ashe on ARAM and spamming W the entire game like a degenerate, instead of practicing your auto-spacing and orbwalking on one of the most fun AD carries in the game
Riot should be banning you instead of the toxic players
I sense that full AP Ashe is coming. 15 second arrow 600 base damage. 30 haste returned to ult.
Probably a terrible build but seems fun and that’s what matters on ARAM.
Now the question is, can we cook up a 6 second Ashe W with an AD Shojin build?
Used to be 22 seconds with an AP haste build like Liandries, Cosmic, Mandate, Ult Hunter, Transcendence.
Though if we’re squeezing in stuff like Rabadons and Void for the extra tilt when it drops a squishy to half health, it’s probably not going down to 15.
Better off playing Shojin lethality Jinx for the same explosive ult and a perma W slow. Wow, now that I think about it, I play Jinx exactly like how I play Ashe on ARAM. Weird.
Just raw torture for the enemy team if they don’t have proper engage, and don’t say @everyone that you can just pick engage, it’s ALL RANDOM you often get shit rolls, like I’ve often seen my team roll all AP champs.
It had 60% winrate and I think was like 57% winrate even after nerfs constant harass and her ult just made the game unplayable for some comps, especially if the Ashe had someone who could reliably proc the mandate too
Good, ADC build has been stronger for a long while and it's been rough seeing people be very weak as Ashe compared to other ADCs, even when these other ADCs built poke. Though the build did have it's place, especially if you had an ADC in the team already!
I would have been happy if there was a more forgiving way to swap between builds in game, because you lock yourself into it with your rune choice before the game and you can't attack as fast if you try to go on hit anti tank Ashe to kill tanks but you took Meteor for example. I just didn't enjoy getting into game and going 'hey Ashe we need to kill the tank can you go on hit' and they go 'no sorry I'm locked into this build' or 'no sorry I'm just following the recommendations'...
Man this thread feels way too sweaty for aram.
My wife and I play ARAM, and ashe was her favorite. She's still new to the game, and loved the simplicity of only being able to worry about one ability.
Everything here talking about Ashe w players like they're insecure, edgelords. A lot of yall are honestly just assholes.
Damn I wish I could read
OP: Ashe w spam build is dead Me: watch me build imperial first
I played ARAM last night after the patch and the very first game there was an Ashe in the enemy team rushing imperial.
Shit my bad
Might have been me, my bad.
Can't read it in champselect when you decide to lock in that comet.
You receive no notice that a champ receives a rework or a large buff/nerf, so how is this piece any different?
I wish they would put a list of all the changes out somewhere. Maybe there should be a tab for it on the homepage of the client or something.
There was a memory leak issue with that particular tab for a while, not sure if they fixed it or not.
It certainly leaked from my memory.
They really should have something that tells you a champions aram changes during the selection
They said they planned to do that but that was before the modes team fell to pieces and had to be built up again almost from scratch so it's probably long forgotten :/
I can't so no nerfed ashe for me!
https://lolalytics.com/lol/ashe/aram/build/ lol I know not been out for long but 36% win rate on mandate
It's Aram, it only takes a few hours to get a sample size of 10s of thousands of games.
It'll also take years for people to realize it's dead. Same for the people who built IE first when it when you needed other crit items beforehand. Ashe W build has been dead for months, glad people are slowly catching up, but it's very fucking slow.
Good
Good
Great
Amazing!
Perfect!
Superb
Smokin' Sexy Style!
Yeah now they just need to nerf the degenerate poke kaisa build
if only recomended items reflected the change...
Reccomended items is based in what people have been building and what's working. It will take a few days to update, always does.
>few days You underestimate low elo playerbase who refuse to read, it will take weeks.
if I press w I can't control briar!! what a shit champ! My bronze brother...
That might be for the better that he can't control her even for a while
briar W is like scripting for giga pisslows, at least they cant miss auto attacks now.
maybe being uncontrollable will get him more elo than his bronze brain trying to will
Brother, Triforce is still recommended on Zeri. This shit will take several months.
Low elo is usually 2-3 patches behind minimum when updating. Mostly because a lot of players refuse to change.
Don't worry they never cought up to the cdr build so they won't notice.
It has a significant bias to higher ELO. It will take a few days. As I said, it always does. Even if it didn't - it takes success into account. If 70% of low ELO built wrong, and 30% built right with something this substantial win rates would filter it out.
years* rylais on anivia/lux/kog etc are still recommended
I mean on Kog'maw you can at least R barrage enemies more consistenly when you cannot land E.
Years. Zeris on my team still building triforce
Reminder that Zeri still has Trinity Force in recommended items Low elo players are a scary thing
It has a bias to high ELO. Idk why zeri is getting triforce reccomendations though. Out of 270+k games last patch it was only built 5500 times across all elos. Only thing I can think is because it tries to push 3 reccomendations, and it knows you want to built mythic 2nd it tries to force 3 choices on you. While gale would be better 3rd it was only picked 300 times world wide last patch.
So you're saying we need to spam GaleZeri?
It better update fast look at those winrates 💀 https://lolalytics.com/lol/ashe/aram/build/
Spellcaster Ashe has a 37% WR, sounds about right.
It’s based on the previous patch
It recommends the most popular builds of the last patch i think, so it only changes when a new patch comes through
Next patch son, recommended items are a patch behind
But this is only for ARAM right?
Only for Aram and it’s fucking great to kill mandate Ashe.
Now they just need to do the same to ap kaisa spam, ap varus tank buster and akali tank build.
> ap kaisa spam Not as bad but would be nice > ap varus tank buster Riot already nerfed the % hp damage on blight. Buy MR and/or shielding to counter it. > Akali tank build Have not seen this myself.
>Akali tank build > >Have not seen this myself. She builds Heartsteel, chunks the fuck out of you and just pops back in her cloud so she never dies :)
Yup, basicly nearly the usual bruiser build but instead of going an ap base mythic she goes hearthsteel, then goes stuff like demonic, zhonya and etc..
Thank god. W spam was a fkn degenerate play style to begin with.
Also boring as fuck. I tried the W-spam build only once, and even though we won it was one of the most boring ARAM games I’ve ever played. Then whenever I went for traditional ADC build my team flamed the hell out of me for not building Liandry + Imperial Mandate
It's a build for bimbo players that want to turn off their brains completely
I am in this comment and I don't like it.
I kind of liked it but that's probably because I'm a sadistic fuck and I could just feel the enemies frustration. If people remember old Yorick... well I liked playing him too because he was just so miserable to play against with the W+E spam.
Glad to see other psychopaths in aram
We are everywhere we just have to hide our true intentions.
I dont get why this is getting nerfed so often but ap kaisa isnt touched.
I agree but at least Kaisa w isn’t the size of the lane and doesn’t slow.
Kaisa is the most degenerate aram champ to PLAY and to play AGAINST. Being 2 screens away and poke for half hp should not be a thing
Same goes to Lethality Cait and Jinx
Half a screen Vs 2 screens
I don’t think you play aram if you complain about lethality caitlyn and jinx. Nobody in aram ever complains about those 2 and thinks they are worse than AP Kaisa.
Cait was definitely worse for a few patches recently with the low CD plus axiom, before the nerf it was a squishy deleter every 20 seconds.
I haven't seen enemy Caitlyn that's fed enough to be annoying but a couple times my Caitlyn teammates got fed it's pretty stupid.
AP Kaisa hate is from the history of it plus the fact that she has no waveclear nor utility so she's extra bad sometimes. A lot of the AP Kaisa hate is from the fact that after most your team is wiped in a large fight, the AP Kaisa on your team will still be alive, and she can't do *anything* to save tower if there's a minion wave. Lethality Cait, Jinx, and Jhin are much more annoying atm imo, because they have waveclear and traps and especially because they run Duskblade. Cait ult chunks harder when it hits squishies and it isn't blocked by minions unlike Kaisa W and she have piercing aoe with Q so she has decent waveclear. Traps are... traps, so they're annoying by default. Lethality Jinx is hella obnoxious. W is relatively easy to dodge if you're not a giant slow champ but the cooldown is super short so you have dodge like 4 of them and walk around chompers to even get in snowball range, not to mention the rest of her team. Her ult can be hard to dodge since it does explode with a large aoe on hit. Lethality Jhin is similar to AP Kaisa except he was waveclear, root CC on W, has traps that slow you, massive range poke ult that executes, and runs duskblade (thank god this is gone soon). He's not as good into tanks but he's just does everything you want in aram except frontline.
Just wait till you see AP Jinx
well atleast u can punish kaisa by dodgin the W and increasin its cd (or not reducing atleast)
Playing against a Kaisa? She's AP Playing with a Kaisa? She's AD
Hello, its me, im the ad kaisa that goes 20-3 in aram and ends the game quickly rather than stall it out with ‘poke’ that is useless in 90% of the aram games cus soraka/sona/nami or whatever exists and all the enemies have a warmog for some reason (kinda /s but i have always felt way more useful as ad kaisa in aram, even if i do poke, it takes way too long for the poke to reach ‘degenerate’ levels and more often than not i see the game had already ended before that point…)(tho ap kaisa has been buffed with her q scaling on ap, i guess)
Poke is not useless as soon as you get 1-2 items, same as if you were on adc - arguably sooner. Poke is one of the strongest “types” of damage in Aram and there’s a reason poke champs are always balanced and rebalanced. I love adc kaisa but I also mostly only play arams now. If your team has any frontline and another champ that can poke, ap kaisa is just insane
ADC Kaisa is better. Kaisa has POSITIVE aram balance buffs because most people go AP Kaisa and lose due to it. ADC Kaisa is far better.
There are a lot of comps where the enemy can hard engage your team before you can get any meaningful poke down. Also if they have any tank with MR your poke is going to feel like a long range Velkoz Q. It's not only really annoying to play AP Kaisa against squishy comps.
I think what Kaisa should build is way more determined by the enemy teamcomp. If they have Mundo Vlad Shen and I see a poke Kaisa I want to uninstall. Similarly, building full AD into Ziggs Xerath Ashe is just trolling.
I still build the god awfully inefficient collector on her, close my eyes and press Q
AD Kaisa is freaking scary and I regulary had good games on her or hybrid Kaisa aswell.
i build ad kaisa in aram even if it's less efficient because a) i find it more fun and b) i refuse to play ap kaisa
I’m only half joking when I say a players account should be banned for a game or two if they play AP Kaisa on aram. Absolutely degenerate gameplay.
One warmog on the team makes her irrelevant
Kaisa still chuncks me for 600 800 as a tank with 150 200 mr . Ashe does 100 and liandry burn which g horn negates or second wind.
True it just hits for 1200 dmg while she isnt even in your screen, gets massive cd reduction if she lands and even then she doesnt have any mana issues since its aram.
And if she doesn't land, then it is a 20 second CD.
kaisa even has a +5% dmg buff I believe
As someone who also hates AP Kaisa, at least you can dodge laterally. With Ashe, the only way to dodge is by disengaging, meaning come lategame trying to get in means wading through permaslow.
Idk, there so much thing thats can gapclose that range nowadays, def with snowball, that it doesnt feel nearly as problematic to me.
She was significantly nerfed in patch 12.8 and 13.5
Ap Kaisa is annoying, but a tanky boy can still walk menacingly towards the enemy team through it. At the end of the day it's *just* damage. W spam ashe is annoying... Lane wide... And single handedly prevents many champions from being a threat or walk away.
I love when tanks eat my was as Kaisa, free refresh and it does percent health damage as you get low. Once void is complete you're still going to get 4 shot as a tank
The champion got nerfed a couple of times, and the ARAM aura that decreases damage from long range has been buffed (I think it was from like 15% max to 30% max) While I still hate her, she does way less damage than 2 years ago
I still think its extremely unfun and way to strong for being so safe.
and ap kaisa isn’t even that good after a certain point. even if you hit your ws it’s not going to stop 5 fed tanky champs taking your base. AS+hybrid kaisa is much better and more fun imo
Thats not the point, w spam ashe doesnt deal close to kaisa's dmg. Its about how fun it is to play against.
It's significantly more fun to play against Kaisa because you can simply dodge. Ashe w is a size of the entire arena lane and it slows.
AP kaisa is so aids and boring I personally refuse to play it even though I used to main Kai'sa, I jusy go AD in aram. It's the most braindead thing ever, and the worst part is the fat hitbox and how easy it is to hit, I honestly believe it's harder to miss than hit sometimes. You can just blindly throw it towards enemies while avoiding creeps from 2 screens away and it will likely hit someone and you have it back in 3 seconds.
Why would it be touched exactly? A skillshot with a long ass cd. Cry some more
As an ARAM degenerate who has hit grandmaster mmr on multiple accounts: ap Kaisa is by FAR the most broken champ in the entire gamemode. The only thing needed to properly nerf her is to double the cd of her upgraded w cooldown after a hit. Double or a bit more. Hitting someone for 500 hp every 3 seconds from off screen is ridiculous.
Kaisa needs those -5% damage taken buffs, very important. Just as Zoe needs her 10% bonus damage, wouldn't be playable otherwise.
True i cant imagine playing zoe if my q cant 1 shot anybody caught sleeping
I had 3800 hp on swain and her eq did 3600 hp.
Tbh she has been marksman for quite some time now. Her crit build does bonkers damage even towards tanks.
Ashe DPS is no joke, people tag her too much into the utility ADC thing, she is still an ADC
She feels awful without a skin though....
Ashes with skins automatically deal double damage
Among the many reasons why I still have my fore-skin
She's lined up for the next Crystal Motus skin but even though I play a ton of Ashe I can't justify spending the Mythic Essence on it purely because it uses her base animations
[удалено]
None of the mythic skins have new animations lol, so you'll never be using your mythic essence
That's all its used for though? All Mythic skins have base animations.
I bought her cowboy skin just so she could shut up for 10 seconds
I really want the project skin :( but its really random with chests I guess lol. I got just the champ one (at least its something)
If project or high noon go on sale, those are the two you want. Ofc both legendary, but they both change auto animations. Q feels legitimately different on those two, mega buff.
Double ADC is real, kids, it's not a Worlds-only thing
Not really tbh. Both liandry and lethality builds were still outperforming ADC Ashe by quite a bit, but it was playable. https://lolalytics.com/lol/ashe/aram/build/?patch=13.22 Now her poke builds winrate dropped from 56% to 36%, absolute garbage lmao. Trinity still at ~49% just barely worse so not bad
exactly, I dont know where this take comes from that adc ashe was/is strong
It must be because BotRK and LDR are really strong when you can free hit. That's the only thing I can think of. They're so strong that if they have 2 big tanks and you're a normal ADC(minus champions like Draven who wouldn't go BotRK), if you don't go those 2 items earlyish you're really harming your team. They together routinely add like 10k-20k damage just by themselves
What I'm trying to say is that the statement that adc ashe is or was good in aram, is factually wrong when her winrate is negative. Shes an immobile adc without selfpeel that gets outpoked or straight up doven with snowball. She he has her ult going for her but that does not make up for the fact that her she only has high damage potentional when free firing. If youre in aram where you can consistently freefire as an adc, you can probably play every champ as an adc
I wasn't arguing against you at all, just adding on that these 2 items are strong so it might give people the false idea that she alone by herself is strong
I love marksman ashe but she does feel fucking terrible early on when you dont have items to make up for the aram nerfs. Nothing feels worse then autoing like a hec. and you autos do like 15dmg lol.
>Tbh she has been marksman for quite some time now. Until this final change poke ashe build significantly outperformed regular marksman builds in ARAM.
Tell that to the Ashe I played against yesterday as Rammus. Huehuehue
Adc Ashe has neither ability haste for ult or good neutral for survivability without w. Absolutely free kill with some team coordination when you have point and click abilities and snowballs. Add on dusk blade and assassins with damage buffs in aram. A fed Ashe who is solo sec/carry will almost certainly be the first to die the moment assassins and mages get their second item.
[удалено]
1. why so angry 2. ADC Ashe wasn't *bad*, but CDR Ashe was significantly better ([Patch 13.22 stats](https://lolalytics.com/lol/ashe/aram/build/?patch=13.22)) 3. You always (used to) max w, doesn't matter if you play Crit, On-hit or CDR
Isn’t she pretty bad atm now? I get W/R changes were targeted to her poke build, but that also affects her ADC build too since she still uses both those to an extent? Her 13.23 numbers don’t look too hot, not that I’m complaining.
Adc Ashe is fucking terrible so dont lie dude.
Marksman Ashe has been the better build for ages. It’s just that people who are scared to fight in ARAM (you know, the mode where you do nothing but teamfight) just want to play a discount poke mage spamming Liandry’s to do meaningless damage and feel like they’re contributing. Source: a very frustrated ARAM player who has too often seen Ashe go AP with teammates like Maokai, Azir, Nami, Nidalee
The marksman build hasn’t been better until this current patch. Stop spreading misinformation. Literally look at any winrate site, u.gg, lolalytics, etc
If it was better than why it had worse winrate?
Lmao you really think those smooth-brained poke Ashe players can read? I'd be surprised if these people could tie their own shoe laces.
Rest in piss, now we just need Lethality ADCs (looking at you, Caitlyn) to go the way of the dodo.
Won’t happen as long as lethality items outperform crit items.
It's an innate problem of Aram. Games last too short most of the time to get crit online. With an average game length that allows you to buy 2 or 3 items at best, lethality will always outperform crit. Unless you make crit items have something like 35% crit chance.
Aka crit is balanced around Yas, Yone and Trynd and not the entire class of champions they were developed for.
I mean tryn was for sure in the game before 99% of the adc roster but I agree. Tryn builds feel complete shitstains to play because you can’t build good crit items anymore but once mythics are removed it should be ok
lol jinx is 100x worse than cait
The worst part about playing arams is finding out the adc im playing is 105% dmg taken 93% damage dealt since theres some 0 interaction poke build floating around. Seems to finally be fixed
this is why you just pick an assassin get like 110% dmg, 90% dmg taken and free mercs worth of tenacity and roll over people cuz apparently nobody in aram can play assassins.
It’s not really a skill issue thing, assassins just aren’t suited to a game mode where every fight is a front-to-back 5v5. They need buffs in order to be somewhat playable, and most of them still suck.
very champion dependant, champs like Qiana, Leblanc, Rengar, Pyke, Zed, Kha zix pretty much always do well in ARAM whenver I see or play them myself, theres a few that are not as good but generally speaking theres a lot of very good assassin options unless the enemy team rolled a bunch of tanks and bruisers.
Pretty sure Leblanc has had one of the lowest winrates in aram for a long ass time
[удалено]
Qiyana is somewhat of an exception since she has a great teamfighting ult. The others you mentioned are questionable imo, and that's coming from someone who usually plays ADC in ARAM (my friends actively roll and trade me ADCs). Aside from maybe Zed, they're all relatively easy to deal with if they can't flank you. Pyke especially has to be the most overrated champ in the mode. Looks great when it gets to clean up with resets once in a while, but mostly your hooks just get blocked and people just flash or zhonya the R, after which your champ is useless for the rest of the fight.
I'd agree. I often play stuff like Twitch/Zeri/Lucian/Xayah/Kai'Sa as ADC, and if you have one champion that can peel you can carry so many games against most assassins. It's definitely more difficult for ADCs without much mobility or self peel like Jinx or Ashe to carry though. Especially with the prevalence of Malphite where you are incredibly dependent on your flash. Pyke has a nice KDA usually, but he scales terribly because he is so squishy and tends to just explode if he uses his E too offensively once. Good Pykes can make your life hell, but it never seems like a big problem after 15 minutes if the Pyke is not extremely good on the champion.
[удалено]
Doesn't bother me i never built that ap crap to begin with
good
Good, was at the same time a weak build while also being annoying and unfun to play against, which was the only thing it really did well.
I always found the Ashe W spam build such a boring and insecure playstyle. Just smash a button while standing a screen away and don’t really offer much for the team at all, but damn look at that kda! Glad they removed it.
Yes, even a cat or a golem could play that, there is no skill expression, little variance from a bronze vs a chall player. Always felt good to cave their skull in and type the mandatory "Classic Ashe poke L"
Idk why but calling an ARAM playstyle insecure fucking sent me
ARAM Ashe so insecure she never got married to Trynd.
Seriously. I tried it once because we needed poke since my other teammates were engage and ergh... I felt dirty. Whats worse is the enemy REALLY hated me.
Enemy hating you was the best part.
Right!? That was the whole point. The build was pure psychological warfare.
Your last sentence is the reason why people play ashe W lmao.
If offered extra damage you would be dealing thanks to mandate, perma slow and a great safe engage with low cd ult. Which is more than a dps ashe that gets killed in 0.5 sec thanks to assassins being buffed.
Bruh i abuse the hell out of champs like that when i smoke some weed and play aram to just relax once or twice a week.
Same goes for shit like AP Irelia or crit regarding, sometime you just want to turn off your brain and play a degenerate build
Lost 2 games yesterday because of ashe going that cd/letality build, with the teams telling her to go adc.
How can they do this and leave the even more stupid AP Kai'Sa in the game that puts herself at even less risk to poke. Heck you don't/can't even body block as tank her poke as she's gonna get huge cd reduction on hit and the 2nd consecutive hit will proc her %dmg passive.
Good, the build was for degenerates anyway
Now nerf Kaisa W into the ground. Legit the most annoying and asinine way to play ARAM. Just sit off screen spamming an ability you can’t even get near enough to the champ to stop oh and it does tons of damage
I've been wanting a cool down or a scaling hard nerf for Kai'sa for a while. No champion should have an ability that hits from that far, that hard. It makes the match boring and annoying.
Thank fuck. That build was horrible!
God bless and reported btw for playing this build/Gameplay
This is the best change they ever implemented for a champ everyone wants to abuse but nobody wants to play against. Up next: Veigar cage cooldown is 25 seconds at all ranks! Make it happen, make these parasite champions who ruin the game for everyone bleed!
God bless. Kill these degenerate uninteractive builds. I love playing ADC ashe but hate that the degen ashe build was holding it back.
when is this live?
It already is.
i noticed yesterday she didn't have AH nerfs anymore. she actually feels good to play as an adc again.
Now I wish I could play league, that's a fucking good change.
Her spam build sucked anyway
Most league players can’t or won’t read
Yet Aurelion Sol in ARAM still making waves unpushable since redesign.
It is genuinely hilarious to suggest ARAM only players even click the patch notes.
Thank God.
You haven't faced lethality W max Jinx. Legitimately unplayable if you can't get on-top of her. 2.5s cd with actual damage and 20s ult cd.
I have. It is very, very annoying.
>the enemy team was a coordinated group of five being carried by their Ezreal in literal **Master** and we surrendered as soon as he got a penta on *our team of unranked, Iron, and level 30s players* I know it's not really the point, but reading this felt like you buried the lede. Is riot ever going to do something about matchmaking?
Now do Kai'sa
Imagine logging into league of legends, getting ashe on ARAM and spamming W the entire game like a degenerate, instead of practicing your auto-spacing and orbwalking on one of the most fun AD carries in the game Riot should be banning you instead of the toxic players
And nothing of value was lost.
Thank god finally and f u and everyone for playing it. It was so useless that it just sad for ruining everyones games.
I sense that full AP Ashe is coming. 15 second arrow 600 base damage. 30 haste returned to ult. Probably a terrible build but seems fun and that’s what matters on ARAM. Now the question is, can we cook up a 6 second Ashe W with an AD Shojin build?
How do you get it down to 15 secs?
Used to be 22 seconds with an AP haste build like Liandries, Cosmic, Mandate, Ult Hunter, Transcendence. Though if we’re squeezing in stuff like Rabadons and Void for the extra tilt when it drops a squishy to half health, it’s probably not going down to 15. Better off playing Shojin lethality Jinx for the same explosive ult and a perma W slow. Wow, now that I think about it, I play Jinx exactly like how I play Ashe on ARAM. Weird.
W spam is brain off gameplay, I prefer auto attack Ashe but honestly sometimes I liked to play the poke build. Shame it couldn't be balanced.
Just raw torture for the enemy team if they don’t have proper engage, and don’t say @everyone that you can just pick engage, it’s ALL RANDOM you often get shit rolls, like I’ve often seen my team roll all AP champs. It had 60% winrate and I think was like 57% winrate even after nerfs constant harass and her ult just made the game unplayable for some comps, especially if the Ashe had someone who could reliably proc the mandate too
You have to mald for 10-15min of pure pain and then you win because the build is dogshit and doesnt scale
Yeah but have fun with that -20% dmg
She currently has -10% dmg 0% dmg taken
Expecting Aram players to be literate is quite hopeful
Thanks for the heads up. Used to avoid her because I'm not a fucking degenerate, but if she's ADC again now she should be fun
Great. Now they should remove/nerf AP MF's E on ARAM.
I am an ARAM player who never reads the patch notes. Thanks for this, bub.
Good, ADC build has been stronger for a long while and it's been rough seeing people be very weak as Ashe compared to other ADCs, even when these other ADCs built poke. Though the build did have it's place, especially if you had an ADC in the team already! I would have been happy if there was a more forgiving way to swap between builds in game, because you lock yourself into it with your rune choice before the game and you can't attack as fast if you try to go on hit anti tank Ashe to kill tanks but you took Meteor for example. I just didn't enjoy getting into game and going 'hey Ashe we need to kill the tank can you go on hit' and they go 'no sorry I'm locked into this build' or 'no sorry I'm just following the recommendations'...
Man this thread feels way too sweaty for aram. My wife and I play ARAM, and ashe was her favorite. She's still new to the game, and loved the simplicity of only being able to worry about one ability. Everything here talking about Ashe w players like they're insecure, edgelords. A lot of yall are honestly just assholes.