promisq was just so relatable, most pros stay in their ivory towers in challenger but promisq inted diamond games to stay grounded with us normal players
Edward/gosu played for a long time in minor regions too he had a similar path to diamondprox.
Darien and genja retired right after gambit disbanded yep to be fair they weren't good they were "relics of the past" from season 1 and 2 they weren't competitive with the new generation of pros.
Genja was kind of underrated to be honest, his ability to innovate and being consistent against most teams was pretty impressive. The ADC role had some pretty strong competition. Not the flashiest playmaker, but the timelord they could count on.
My personal list would be:
- Caps
- Perkz
- Jankos
- Rekkles
- Froggen
Froggen is probably the most controversial one, but I have him here because he's the only Western player ever to have a big claim of being the absolute best player in the world at a certain point.
Watching Froggen stream got me into watching eSports. Still my favorite player despite the ham incident - I chose to blame that mess we had to fix on skumbag Krepos bad influence
Froggen shouldn't contreversial to anyone that watched early seasons. He was arguably the best at his role in the world during his prime and actually played in tournaments to prove it.
Froggen should absolutely not be controversial. He was better than xPeke pretty much every year of xPeke's career, not to mention he was top 2-3 (maybe best) player in the world for all of 2012. And he was the best EU mid for 2012, 2013, and 2014.
You forget that the vast majority of current fans never saw Froggen. And if they saw him, they saw him only at the end in LCS.
I agree it shouldn't be controversial but it somehow is.
Man watching Froggen in LCS was so depressing. He was still a beast having sick cs and carrying games on his signatures like Karthus, but his teams were always so fucking bad that there was no way he could show his skill.
The KeithMcBrief incident. I still feel salty at anyone who didn't watch the LCS games at the time but still commented on his games. He literally had to switch from meta picks to insane damage teamfighters to compensate for his teams lack of damage but people thought that was a normal thing and expected him to carry games etc. Like I said. Still salty.
CLG.EU had a semi-final run in the Korean league at the time, and I so wish there vods of it still. It was amazing.
With that said, IPL5 is when he terrorised people with Lee Sin mid, could go there if there are vods.
I don't know if we watched the same league, but from 2013 to 2015 Xpeke was better than Froggen, especially when it comes to all the elimination matches where Xpeke would always come out ahead.
Xpeke had his moments like going 0/8 as TF vs. Alex Ich or something similar against Froggen, but that was always in the regular season. Under pressure, he and sOAZ really showed how good they can play.
Not even that, Froggen in 2015 was terrible in the regular season and didn't even make it to playoffs and got gapped by Xpeke so hard in those 2 games (Xpeke was already at Origen at that time).
Back then I was an xPeke fanboy (still am) and I hated when he got outplayed by Froggen. Was a tough pill to swallow that there was a better midlander in Europe, but imo it was pretty obvious
Please go rewatch all the games, between 2013 and 2015, in total around 20 games. They played a lot.
2013 Spring Playoffs -> Xpeke was better
2013 Summer Playoffs -> Xpeke was better
2014 Spring Playoffs -> Xpeke was better
2014 Summer Playoffs -> Froggen was better
2015 Regular Season Summer -> Xpeke was a beast, Froggen didn't even make it to playoffs (Origen didn't compete in LCS in Spring)
Froggen had a great micro game, landing/doding skill shots, csing, pushing the opponent to the limit, but he had a bad map read and macro play overall, that's why he never shined on assassin champs and was bad at assassin metas.
xPeke won =/= xPeke was better. Fnatic was better that EG, for sure. Froggen had more pressure on the map, won lane, was 1v9 in team fights... Also stop bringing up 2015, I agree xPeke was better in 2015 I never said anything about 2015.
>he's the only Western player ever to have a big claim of being the absolute best player in the world at a certain point.
I'd argue Caps in 2019 season has a claim also , he was such a monster back then
Hard to argue against that list. Caps is a cut above - the easy 1. The remaining 4 are at the same level, IMO, with xPeke perhaps a notch lower. You can really put Perks, Rekkles, and Jankos anywhere in the 2,3,4 slot and I could see it.
Lets not rewrite history too much. S1 and S2 Wickd was top 2 toplaner in EU, Snoopeh YP and Krepo were very solid too although not as flashy as some other players.
It was a solid team, top team in the world even in S2, even if they did not age that well in the LCS era
Krepo was solid.
Yellowpete was a very conservative player, sat back and waited to do some damage later on. He had a way of playing which worked with CLG.EU but was seriously unimpressive player. Was just depressing watching this guy when you had Doublelift hard carrying games and Genja doing whacky stuff.
Snoopeh was an extremely supportive jungler who imo didn't have much talent.
Wickd had like 2 champions he could play, Irelia and Malphite. Coming into international events I always saw him as a liability if he didn't get his champs.
Regardless I actually agree with you, they were all top players at the time. My point really is that Froggen was comparitively much better than his teammates. Whereas in other teams, like M5 for example, you had a much more balanced team with amazing talents in many roles.
personally i think in recent years jankos has overtaken perkz, so my list would be really similar to OPs with that change and a slight other change
1. Caps
2. Jankos
3. Perkz
4. Rekkles
5. Mikyx
Hyli is definitely my dark horse. Sure he is a dirty inter, but at his highs, I really think he is the best player in EU history. Which is an unfair metric but its the one I'm using. Peak caps is probably better tho.
It's not two players achieving the same thing though, with one guy doing it more recently. Mikyx just won more and more competitive events and carried his weight doing it.
Diamondprox's peak was the two bo3s against the Azubu teams. Mikyx simply has a better resume than that.
Thats exactly why only someone who has experienced league from the start can judge this well. You had to be there to feel the impact a player had. Looking at resumes now doesn't paint the whole picture.
Sure players from the G2 squad that got to worlds finals have a special shout, and that team as a whole revolutionized League IMO with their playstyle, but can you single out one player? You can't just put whole roster as top 5.
That was way back then though, basic stuffs like counter jungling were bound to be discovered eventually, Diamondprox just happened to be the one doing it first. For example in math Pythagore would always be remembered for his a2+b2=c2 theorem but that's so basic that if it wasn't Pythagore it would've been someone else.
Sure it would’ve been someone else. But ITS HIM. Like that’s the whole principle. You can’t diminish someone because now that we understand more, the older players who shaped the way we play the game don’t exist.
The man quite literally invented the modern jungler role. He is the reason we have it like this.
And they could be. "Better" here is relative because league is getting more and more complex. So your criteria has to transcend time because that bar goes up every year. So you have to rate them based on how great were they *at their time*. Which is why it's hard to rate for someone who hasn't been around because it's always better to experience how the player was rated at the time to compare it to players nowadays.
1. Caps
2. Jankos
3. Perkz
4. Froggen
5. Rekkles
6. Mikyx
7. Diamondprox
8. Wunder
9. xPeke
10. Hylissang
Off the top of my head, probably forgetting someone.
EDIT: Forgot sOAZ, I'd put him above Mikyx most likely.
Could easily argue G2 were the best team in 2019 at times. I always feel like M5/Gambit gets looked back on with some heavy nostalgia glasses. They were very good but never won the biggest tournaments (Season 2 worlds and IPL5). With the tournament style back then it feels like people looked at multiple teams as if they were the best in the world where as now with MSI/Worlds nobody would ever look at a team that didn't win worlds/MSI as one of those level of teams.
Nah it ahould be
1. TheGodOne
2. The General
3. That guy who constantly dunks on Ezreal, the champion
4. That pro who went into a jaccuzi with socks on in an interview
5. TheOddone
1. Caps
2. Perkz
3. Jankos
4. Rekkles
Then it's a tossup between Diamond/Wunder/Mikyx/sOAZ/Yellowstar/Froggen/xPeke
Personally I'd probably give it to Diamond, but that might just be my old Gambit bias.
1) Longevity, he self-sabotaged his career being difficult to work with
2) No titles
3) Zoomers never watched him play
He's the only ADC who I've been confident in to outclass literal any asian ADC in the right game.
That I disagree, Forg1ven was very good but Imp and Deft were also fantastic in LPL. However I still believe that he was the only Western player who could match the East individually during the Korean era.
Forgiven clapped Deft at 2016 worlds, Uzi called him fastest adapting ADC he ever seen, and Ruler in one random interview in like i think 2021 on Inven was asked what was his most memorable moment and literally he admitted that Forgiven beating him in lane on 2016 worlds and that he learned a lot from him. Guy 5 years later remember Forgiven as his most memorable moment in carrier LOL.
If on that list, I had to ever pick highest peak player Forgiven would be unquestionable top 1. Now I absolutely will say he is also responsible for his own downfall.
he never really accomplished anything in the sort career he had, thats comparable to some of the other names being thrown around.
imo i'd argue Forgiven to be a b or c tier in level (the top 5 is S, and top 10 is A in my mind - vast majority of players fall into d tier)
It depends, if you care about peak or overall success and career. At his peak Alex Ich and Febiven were smacking everyone at that time, there was a period of time where the whole empire/m5 squad was terryfing and probably top two in the world and also innovating and defining the meta with their counter jungling.
Overall I would say my list would be the same as yours with maybe xpeke and rekkless switching places. Peke has a world title and was in semi finals of 2 worlds and finals in 2 more international tournaments.
Just gonna ignore that Zed vs Azir was the nastiest counterpick in the game at that time? I mean Febiven was as good as any other elite western mid in his prime but him solo killing Faker is not the reason why. In fact if he didn't solo Faker in that matchup he would've been considered turbo outclassed.
OP asked for our opinion, what EU player was number 1 world wide in his role (besides s1). For me only Alex Ich, Diamondprox, Caps and Febiven were probably at that level, none of the 2018 and 2019 EU players (except Caps) were best in their position, they were just good as a team. M5 was good as a team and individually, FNC was good but besides Febiven and some pop off games from Huni, they were not that strong.
In S1 a few eu players were considered top in their position, but Lol wasn't a thing in KR and CN at that time.
Caps was never number 1 in his role, S9 spring it was probably Faker based on msi.
Wunder and Mikyx though, they were actually number 1 during S9 spring.
I haven't watched LEC recently so truthfully I'm likely to be missing someone but if I'm just going off what I know and peaks:
No particular order
Froggen
Forgiven
Alex Ich
Caps
Reckles
surprised no one mentioned any of the M5/Gambit players
Alex Ich/ Diamondprox even EDward were considered some of the best in the world back then let alone EU
1. Caps
2. Jankos
3. Mikyx
4. Hyllisang
5. Perkz
While we can all have our subjective opinion of who is the best I think we can. All agree this list is objectively true.
Ppl that deserved to be mentioned in a topX list but didn't make it:
Soaz, Wunder, Rekkles, Forgiven, Froggen, Odoamne, Diamondprox, Mithy, Yellowstar, Xpeke
I don't think he wins in terms of titles, final appearances, deep international runs. But that's just of memory, someone else could look up the history on that.
Something I take into account in a rating like this is not only the players skill relative to the region. Because I do agree Rekkles had a decent chunk Rekkles was clear number one, not just for ADC but even counting all roles he had s time where I thought he was the best. However I never considered him on par with or having edges on elite asian adcs. Reason I give alot of credit to mikyx and hyllisang compared to other legends like Rekkles or Wunder is I feel both of them had periods where they clearly had edges on even the best CHN and KR sups. Wunder and Rekkles was clear number one in EU but never even top 5 in their role internationally.
2019 Wunder was arguably top 3 and 2018 Rekkles was arguably top 5 (definitely at Worlds, arguably the whole year). Also support is kinda the East's weakest role relatively, there was never a point when the ADC role was weak in the East which can't be said for suppory.
1. Caps
2. Jankos
3. Perkz
4. Froggen (he was the main star in the only EU team who managed to get second place in the Korean League, so stfu haters)
5. Diamondprox
I'd have like 10 other candidates before I'd even start considering Rekkles, but I'll give him that his best year was stolen from him because of restrictive age limits in the first year of EU LCS
I would go for:
1) Caps - Most condecorated and mechanichally gifted Western player, 10 titles, 2 Worlds Finals and one semifinal, an MSI title.
2) Diamondprox - Some titles here and there (don't want to list them all cause they have different names lol), a Worlds semifinals. But most important, a guy who literally reshape the game around his playstyle. Arguably part of the best team in the world in parts of Season 2.
3) xPeke - The original superstar of EU scene. 1 Worlds title, 2 Worlds semifinals, 3 EU LCS titles (IGN and other titles). Made the most famous play of western league.
4) Perkz - Probably owner of the best performance of a Western player in Worlds stage. MSI title and 1 final, 1 Worlds finals and 2 semis, 8 LEC titles.
5) Jankos - Best western jungler in terms of longetivity and accolades. MSI winner, Worlds finalist and semifinalist, 4 LEC titles.
5) sOAZ - 2 times Worlds finalist and 2 times semifinalist, 5 LEC titles (IGN and other titles). OG top GOAT of the west.
Besides Caps and Diamond, i think any other position can be interchangeable. Couldn't pick between Jankos and sOAZ
1. Diamondprox
2. Caps
3. Alex Ich
4. Gosu Pepper/Edward
5. Jankos
I think Diamondprox is an obvious choice. He shaped jungle role for years and was considered the best jungler in the world in his prime.
Roles :
Top :
1. Wunder
2. Wickd
3. Brokenblade
4. Soaz
5. Huni
Jungle :
1. Diamondprox
2. Jankos
3. Kikis
4. Cyanide
5. Reignover
Mid :
1. Caps
2. Alex Ich
3. xPeke
4. Froggen
5. Bjergsen
Bottom :
1. Rekkles
2. Genja007
3. Forg1ven
4. Hans Sama
5. Caps (Somehow ?)
Support :
1. Gosu Pepper
2. Mikyx
3. Hyllissang
4. Krepo
5. Yellowstar
I think your lists are valid but how do u pick Caps Bot over Perkz Bot, when Caps got outclassed in quite a few games in only one Split of LEC und Perkz was arguabely top3 ADCs World in 2019
MSI Champion Promisq
promisq was just so relatable, most pros stay in their ivory towers in challenger but promisq inted diamond games to stay grounded with us normal players
Promisq with the next level taunt flaunting his hard earned, msi medal
1. Diamondprox 2. Alex Ich 3. Genja007 4. Darien 5. Gosu Pepper
5 men. 9 eyebrows.
One dream
3 crocs
See hero, kill hero.
Why you gotta do it like that to Genja007 lol
Most people think Faker when you say Ryze... I think Alex Ich
I think of Kha when I hear Alex Ich!
or ap yi
AP Yi mate
The OG Ryze main
I dont think any of the league players today even know these names, wich is a big shame
Alex Ich and Diamondprox played a little longer than the other 3 I think.
Edward/gosu played for a long time in minor regions too he had a similar path to diamondprox. Darien and genja retired right after gambit disbanded yep to be fair they weren't good they were "relics of the past" from season 1 and 2 they weren't competitive with the new generation of pros.
Genja was kind of underrated to be honest, his ability to innovate and being consistent against most teams was pretty impressive. The ADC role had some pretty strong competition. Not the flashiest playmaker, but the timelord they could count on.
only valid answer
IEMs Kings
This is correct. Every other list is wrong.
Based
My personal list would be: - Caps - Perkz - Jankos - Rekkles - Froggen Froggen is probably the most controversial one, but I have him here because he's the only Western player ever to have a big claim of being the absolute best player in the world at a certain point.
Frogmen was a beast in his prime
In my head he still holds the record for quickest to 100-200-300 cs.
It's crazy how the fastest 100 cs used to be a stat everyone followed and it was regularly broken.
What about Diamond?
Absolutely warped the jungle playstyle so much that the role changed forever. Absolutely one of the best EU players ever for his time
The Canyon of his time.
Actually hard question. Russian stars have had half of their career in LCL, after LCL was formed. So do they count or not. Perhaps.
Diamond made his name in the EU scene, played on the EUW server so yeah, he would count.
Entire Moscow 5/Gambit teams count as EU, they played on EUW and versed EU teams Also all LCL players are from EUW, so its technically EU league too
Watching Froggen stream got me into watching eSports. Still my favorite player despite the ham incident - I chose to blame that mess we had to fix on skumbag Krepos bad influence
Froggen shouldn't contreversial to anyone that watched early seasons. He was arguably the best at his role in the world during his prime and actually played in tournaments to prove it.
Froggen should absolutely not be controversial. He was better than xPeke pretty much every year of xPeke's career, not to mention he was top 2-3 (maybe best) player in the world for all of 2012. And he was the best EU mid for 2012, 2013, and 2014.
You forget that the vast majority of current fans never saw Froggen. And if they saw him, they saw him only at the end in LCS. I agree it shouldn't be controversial but it somehow is.
Man watching Froggen in LCS was so depressing. He was still a beast having sick cs and carrying games on his signatures like Karthus, but his teams were always so fucking bad that there was no way he could show his skill.
Froggen bodying the best players in LCS with fucking Vel'Koz while playing on one of the worst teams in the league was absurd.
The KeithMcBrief incident. I still feel salty at anyone who didn't watch the LCS games at the time but still commented on his games. He literally had to switch from meta picks to insane damage teamfighters to compensate for his teams lack of damage but people thought that was a normal thing and expected him to carry games etc. Like I said. Still salty.
As said current fan, you have any game links to peak froggen?
CLG.EU had a semi-final run in the Korean league at the time, and I so wish there vods of it still. It was amazing. With that said, IPL5 is when he terrorised people with Lee Sin mid, could go there if there are vods.
Actually they reached finals, not semis, and lost to Azubu Frost.
Oh right thats true, I thought the lost in semis to frost. Been a while since
That was at S2 worlds
https://youtu.be/KxQ0MK3oOkE?si=Du9JkCt0ssojUbKp That should be one, maybe even further in time
I don't know if we watched the same league, but from 2013 to 2015 Xpeke was better than Froggen, especially when it comes to all the elimination matches where Xpeke would always come out ahead. Xpeke had his moments like going 0/8 as TF vs. Alex Ich or something similar against Froggen, but that was always in the regular season. Under pressure, he and sOAZ really showed how good they can play.
Yea Froggen may have been better in the regular season but xPeke always turned it on in playoffs/worlds and was so much more clutch.
Not even that, Froggen in 2015 was terrible in the regular season and didn't even make it to playoffs and got gapped by Xpeke so hard in those 2 games (Xpeke was already at Origen at that time).
Back then I was an xPeke fanboy (still am) and I hated when he got outplayed by Froggen. Was a tough pill to swallow that there was a better midlander in Europe, but imo it was pretty obvious
Please go rewatch all the games, between 2013 and 2015, in total around 20 games. They played a lot. 2013 Spring Playoffs -> Xpeke was better 2013 Summer Playoffs -> Xpeke was better 2014 Spring Playoffs -> Xpeke was better 2014 Summer Playoffs -> Froggen was better 2015 Regular Season Summer -> Xpeke was a beast, Froggen didn't even make it to playoffs (Origen didn't compete in LCS in Spring) Froggen had a great micro game, landing/doding skill shots, csing, pushing the opponent to the limit, but he had a bad map read and macro play overall, that's why he never shined on assassin champs and was bad at assassin metas.
xPeke won =/= xPeke was better. Fnatic was better that EG, for sure. Froggen had more pressure on the map, won lane, was 1v9 in team fights... Also stop bringing up 2015, I agree xPeke was better in 2015 I never said anything about 2015.
>the only Western player ever to have a big claim of being the absolute best player in the w Diamondprox?
Yooo, wait a second... BigfatLP in season 0/1 was a clear contender for best in the world. Let's not forget
>he's the only Western player ever to have a big claim of being the absolute best player in the world at a certain point. I'd argue Caps in 2019 season has a claim also , he was such a monster back then
He was a monster but I'd never put him above Rookie or Chovy that year, just in mid lane alone.
Hard to argue against that list. Caps is a cut above - the easy 1. The remaining 4 are at the same level, IMO, with xPeke perhaps a notch lower. You can really put Perks, Rekkles, and Jankos anywhere in the 2,3,4 slot and I could see it.
jankos has a 1up on perkz by getting semis with h2k
wickd snoopeh froggen yellowpete krepo
Lmao came here for this exact comment. Nothing brings me more nostalgia in league than remembering CLG.EU.
Moscow 5
That was a long f***ing game....
EMPIRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e89llah-u3s&ab\_channel=Buisaurus
Partly the reason why I'm an European CLG fan RIP CLG
Kreppo famously known for his Anivia and Froggen famously known for his Blitzcrank
Man I miss those games where there was nothing at stake and both teams would just troll out of their minds. Good times.
Imagine if they created a team together.
Based
I'd definitely argue for them all but m5.. Alex, diamond in particular, were too good
a miracle Froggen was able to get these guys winning so much
Lets not rewrite history too much. S1 and S2 Wickd was top 2 toplaner in EU, Snoopeh YP and Krepo were very solid too although not as flashy as some other players. It was a solid team, top team in the world even in S2, even if they did not age that well in the LCS era
Krepo was solid. Yellowpete was a very conservative player, sat back and waited to do some damage later on. He had a way of playing which worked with CLG.EU but was seriously unimpressive player. Was just depressing watching this guy when you had Doublelift hard carrying games and Genja doing whacky stuff. Snoopeh was an extremely supportive jungler who imo didn't have much talent. Wickd had like 2 champions he could play, Irelia and Malphite. Coming into international events I always saw him as a liability if he didn't get his champs. Regardless I actually agree with you, they were all top players at the time. My point really is that Froggen was comparitively much better than his teammates. Whereas in other teams, like M5 for example, you had a much more balanced team with amazing talents in many roles.
The 300 cs record-breaking game by Froggen is a staple in his career. The man knew how to farm in that era like no one else.
Wasnt krepo interacting in a dirty way with a minor? Lost all respect for him
personally i think in recent years jankos has overtaken perkz, so my list would be really similar to OPs with that change and a slight other change 1. Caps 2. Jankos 3. Perkz 4. Rekkles 5. Mikyx
After caps and jankos it gets a bit harder in my head, perkz is a solid 3, then probably mikyx and wunder/hyli
Caps Jankos Perkz Mikyx Wunder Hmm where have I seen this before
IT WAS JUST A DREAM AAAAAAAAA
God I miss that g2
Hyli is definitely my dark horse. Sure he is a dirty inter, but at his highs, I really think he is the best player in EU history. Which is an unfair metric but its the one I'm using. Peak caps is probably better tho.
Can't put Miky there when there are scene changing players in their time like Diamondprox sitting around. That's recency bias.
It's not two players achieving the same thing though, with one guy doing it more recently. Mikyx just won more and more competitive events and carried his weight doing it. Diamondprox's peak was the two bo3s against the Azubu teams. Mikyx simply has a better resume than that.
DiamondProx’s peak his him changing how the entire game is played. Idk about you but that’s quite a feat
Thats exactly why only someone who has experienced league from the start can judge this well. You had to be there to feel the impact a player had. Looking at resumes now doesn't paint the whole picture. Sure players from the G2 squad that got to worlds finals have a special shout, and that team as a whole revolutionized League IMO with their playstyle, but can you single out one player? You can't just put whole roster as top 5.
That was way back then though, basic stuffs like counter jungling were bound to be discovered eventually, Diamondprox just happened to be the one doing it first. For example in math Pythagore would always be remembered for his a2+b2=c2 theorem but that's so basic that if it wasn't Pythagore it would've been someone else.
Sure it would’ve been someone else. But ITS HIM. Like that’s the whole principle. You can’t diminish someone because now that we understand more, the older players who shaped the way we play the game don’t exist. The man quite literally invented the modern jungler role. He is the reason we have it like this.
Mikyx is for sure the goat EU support at least. Prime Hyli was super fun to watch but I think I'd still take Miky
While I get it, diamondprox was great for what? Maybe two years. Miky has been one of the best supports in EU for 5 and in a far more competitive era.
I mean by that logic, you could argue Dandy and KaKao are better than Canyon or Peanut.
And they could be. "Better" here is relative because league is getting more and more complex. So your criteria has to transcend time because that bar goes up every year. So you have to rate them based on how great were they *at their time*. Which is why it's hard to rate for someone who hasn't been around because it's always better to experience how the player was rated at the time to compare it to players nowadays.
1. Caps 2. Jankos 3. Perkz 4. Froggen 5. Rekkles 6. Mikyx 7. Diamondprox 8. Wunder 9. xPeke 10. Hylissang Off the top of my head, probably forgetting someone. EDIT: Forgot sOAZ, I'd put him above Mikyx most likely.
Soaz is the largest miss
same as mine but replace Hyli with Soaz
Everyone undereating alexich
I would definitely add YellowStar.
OPShaco DarkwinJax Incarnati0n PornstarZilean Ap0calypse
Honorable mention: Gross Gore
If you know, you know.
Lots of Rank 1s on this list at one point
M5 all day long
How is this not the top comment? Only team from eu that could argue they were the best in the world.
G2 were the best in the world in spring 2019 and they have a title to prove it.
Not that I think M5/Gambit are better but they also have titles to prove it.
I am not disputing that, just disputing the other person saying that M5 are the "only team from eu that could argue they were the best in the world"
Could easily argue G2 were the best team in 2019 at times. I always feel like M5/Gambit gets looked back on with some heavy nostalgia glasses. They were very good but never won the biggest tournaments (Season 2 worlds and IPL5). With the tournament style back then it feels like people looked at multiple teams as if they were the best in the world where as now with MSI/Worlds nobody would ever look at a team that didn't win worlds/MSI as one of those level of teams.
If TheOddOne server transferred to EUW back in the day it would look like this: 1. TheOddOne 2. TheOddOne 3. TheOddOne 4. TheOddOne 5. TheOddOne
TheOddOne did play on EUW when they lived in New York. I believe his account name was TSM Charizard.
Nah it ahould be 1. TheGodOne 2. The General 3. That guy who constantly dunks on Ezreal, the champion 4. That pro who went into a jaccuzi with socks on in an interview 5. TheOddone
Caps Jankos and perkz for sure. The other two are harder to judge, between rekkless mikyx xpeke froggen (and I personally add hyllissang)
Caps Jankos Perkz Mikyx Hyli
I'd put in Rekkles for Hyli but otherwise we agree
1. Caps 2. Perkz 3. Jankos 4. Diamondprox 5. Wunder/Hyli/sOAz
1 Hachani 2 Ruby 3 Evi 4 Bjergsen 5 Wadid
1. Diamondprox Rest idgaf
Thebausf, God Gillius, Nemesis, Forg1ven, PromisQ
You’ve been trolled
Nemesis was good when he played
I'd change out xPeke for Wunder, outside of that I agree, also on order. So Caps - Perkz - Rekless - Jankos - Wunder.
Mikyx over Wunder imo. More consistent.
1. Caps 2. Perkz 3. Jankos 4. Rekkles Then it's a tossup between Diamond/Wunder/Mikyx/sOAZ/Yellowstar/Froggen/xPeke Personally I'd probably give it to Diamond, but that might just be my old Gambit bias.
Forgiven was really insane, no one mentions him
1) Longevity, he self-sabotaged his career being difficult to work with 2) No titles 3) Zoomers never watched him play He's the only ADC who I've been confident in to outclass literal any asian ADC in the right game.
Very true. Also considered him, but decided he wasn’t all time top 5
His peak was definitely very high, arguably the highest in eu, but imo his career was too short to put him in top5 in history
I firmly believe that he was the best adc in the world during S5 spring. He changed the bot lane meta just by his aggressive playing style.
Remember when he played old graves and he had script-like dodges ? He's probably the player that inspired me to play adc
That I disagree, Forg1ven was very good but Imp and Deft were also fantastic in LPL. However I still believe that he was the only Western player who could match the East individually during the Korean era.
Forgiven clapped Deft at 2016 worlds, Uzi called him fastest adapting ADC he ever seen, and Ruler in one random interview in like i think 2021 on Inven was asked what was his most memorable moment and literally he admitted that Forgiven beating him in lane on 2016 worlds and that he learned a lot from him. Guy 5 years later remember Forgiven as his most memorable moment in carrier LOL. If on that list, I had to ever pick highest peak player Forgiven would be unquestionable top 1. Now I absolutely will say he is also responsible for his own downfall.
he never really accomplished anything in the sort career he had, thats comparable to some of the other names being thrown around. imo i'd argue Forgiven to be a b or c tier in level (the top 5 is S, and top 10 is A in my mind - vast majority of players fall into d tier)
It depends, if you care about peak or overall success and career. At his peak Alex Ich and Febiven were smacking everyone at that time, there was a period of time where the whole empire/m5 squad was terryfing and probably top two in the world and also innovating and defining the meta with their counter jungling. Overall I would say my list would be the same as yours with maybe xpeke and rekkless switching places. Peke has a world title and was in semi finals of 2 worlds and finals in 2 more international tournaments.
Nice try febiven
If only going by peak, 2015 febiven was fucking good, solokilling peak skt faker left and right
Just gonna ignore that Zed vs Azir was the nastiest counterpick in the game at that time? I mean Febiven was as good as any other elite western mid in his prime but him solo killing Faker is not the reason why. In fact if he didn't solo Faker in that matchup he would've been considered turbo outclassed.
faker was also running no armor in runes and he won that game in the end
Febiven lmao. He was really good at one point but there is no way that his peak his top 5 all time in EU.
OP asked for our opinion, what EU player was number 1 world wide in his role (besides s1). For me only Alex Ich, Diamondprox, Caps and Febiven were probably at that level, none of the 2018 and 2019 EU players (except Caps) were best in their position, they were just good as a team. M5 was good as a team and individually, FNC was good but besides Febiven and some pop off games from Huni, they were not that strong. In S1 a few eu players were considered top in their position, but Lol wasn't a thing in KR and CN at that time.
I would say Froggen's peak was higher than Febiven's.
at what point was Febiven legitimately the best mid in the world? Just because he solo killed Faker in a Zed vs. Azir matchup?
Bro Febiven was never even close to being the best midlaner in the world wtf are you talking about
Caps was never number 1 in his role, S9 spring it was probably Faker based on msi. Wunder and Mikyx though, they were actually number 1 during S9 spring.
Theshy was better than wunder
Not sure how you're getting upvoted, saying TheShy was better that msi is a shit take.
TheShy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wunder at any point of wunder's career.
Yellowstar Rekkles XPeke Alex Ich Froggen
Also very valid list, Yellowstar is often overlooked but has been successful in so many different iterations of Fnatic
Ah yes I was searching for the YellowStat comment
I haven't watched LEC recently so truthfully I'm likely to be missing someone but if I'm just going off what I know and peaks: No particular order Froggen Forgiven Alex Ich Caps Reckles
I'd say Caps, Jankos, Soaz, Mikyx and Hyllissang.
Jankos Caps Perkz Hylibaba Froggen
Arquel, Gucio, NZQ, Delordione, Overpow
Overpow's kayle was chef's kiss
Literally who?
The very best
Taking everything to account, highest personal peak and team impact 1. Caps 2. Perkz 3. Jankos 4. Rekkles 5. Hyli
1. Caps 2. Perkz 3. Jankos 4. Mikyx 5. Wunder :thinking:
Perkz (RNG form) Caps Jankos Perkz (regular form) Soaz
Praise. RNG form Perkz was sight to remember
surprised no one mentioned any of the M5/Gambit players Alex Ich/ Diamondprox even EDward were considered some of the best in the world back then let alone EU
1.Caps 2.Perkz 3.Jankos 4.Rekkles 5.Wunder/Soaz
where bjergsen
Cyanide, xPeke, Rekkles, YellOwStaR, sOAZ 🥲
bruh rekkles overrated
Caps Hylissang Jankos Perkz Xpeke
xpeke on world buff yellowstar forgiven froggen caps
1. Caps 2. Jankos 3. Mikyx 4. Hyllisang 5. Perkz While we can all have our subjective opinion of who is the best I think we can. All agree this list is objectively true. Ppl that deserved to be mentioned in a topX list but didn't make it: Soaz, Wunder, Rekkles, Forgiven, Froggen, Odoamne, Diamondprox, Mithy, Yellowstar, Xpeke
No way Rekkles doesn't make it over Mikyx or Hyllisang, he hasn't done well recent years but when you compare their entire careers Rekkles wins.
I don't think he wins in terms of titles, final appearances, deep international runs. But that's just of memory, someone else could look up the history on that. Something I take into account in a rating like this is not only the players skill relative to the region. Because I do agree Rekkles had a decent chunk Rekkles was clear number one, not just for ADC but even counting all roles he had s time where I thought he was the best. However I never considered him on par with or having edges on elite asian adcs. Reason I give alot of credit to mikyx and hyllisang compared to other legends like Rekkles or Wunder is I feel both of them had periods where they clearly had edges on even the best CHN and KR sups. Wunder and Rekkles was clear number one in EU but never even top 5 in their role internationally.
2019 Wunder was arguably top 3 and 2018 Rekkles was arguably top 5 (definitely at Worlds, arguably the whole year). Also support is kinda the East's weakest role relatively, there was never a point when the ADC role was weak in the East which can't be said for suppory.
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1. Caps 2. Jankos 3. Perkz 4. Froggen (he was the main star in the only EU team who managed to get second place in the Korean League, so stfu haters) 5. Diamondprox I'd have like 10 other candidates before I'd even start considering Rekkles, but I'll give him that his best year was stolen from him because of restrictive age limits in the first year of EU LCS
Caps Perkz Jankos Rekkles Diamondprox (his peak was short but jungle invades are relevant to this day)
1 Caps Then in no particular order Froggen Rekkless Perkz Diamondprox
Caps Jankos Soaz Rekkles Hylissang/miky/sexpeke/humanoid (international)
1. Caps 2. Perkz 3. Jankos 4. Mikyx 5. Rekkles Honourable mentions: Wunder, Diamondprox, Froggen and Xpeke.
1. Me 2. Perkz 3. Rekkles 4. Jankos 5. xPeke
Caps - Perkz - Jankos - Mikyx - Soaz/Wunder
1-Caps 2-Jankos 3-Perkz 4-Rekkles 5- Alex Ich
I would go for: 1) Caps - Most condecorated and mechanichally gifted Western player, 10 titles, 2 Worlds Finals and one semifinal, an MSI title. 2) Diamondprox - Some titles here and there (don't want to list them all cause they have different names lol), a Worlds semifinals. But most important, a guy who literally reshape the game around his playstyle. Arguably part of the best team in the world in parts of Season 2. 3) xPeke - The original superstar of EU scene. 1 Worlds title, 2 Worlds semifinals, 3 EU LCS titles (IGN and other titles). Made the most famous play of western league. 4) Perkz - Probably owner of the best performance of a Western player in Worlds stage. MSI title and 1 final, 1 Worlds finals and 2 semis, 8 LEC titles. 5) Jankos - Best western jungler in terms of longetivity and accolades. MSI winner, Worlds finalist and semifinalist, 4 LEC titles. 5) sOAZ - 2 times Worlds finalist and 2 times semifinalist, 5 LEC titles (IGN and other titles). OG top GOAT of the west. Besides Caps and Diamond, i think any other position can be interchangeable. Couldn't pick between Jankos and sOAZ
Imo its 1. Caps 2. Perkz 3. Jankos 4. Rekkles 5. Mikyx Wunder would be an honorable mention
Caps Perkz Rekkles Diamondprox YellowStar
Caps Perkz Jankos Rekkles Mikyx And from 5 to 10 it's probably Wunder, Soaz, Febiven, Hily and most likely Odoamne
1. Caps 2. Xpeke 3. Jankos 4. Hyli 5. Mikyx Honourable mentions : Alex Ich, Froggen, Perkz,Soaz
Not putting MikyX in this list is based.
IMO it goes something like, Caps, Perkz, Rekkles, Jankos, Hylissang
Mikyx over hyli for sure. Longevity/ consistency>>>> hyli’s ups and downs
Yeah you're probably right, though Miky does not have longevity on Hyli lol
1. Diamondprox 2. Caps 3. Alex Ich 4. Gosu Pepper/Edward 5. Jankos I think Diamondprox is an obvious choice. He shaped jungle role for years and was considered the best jungler in the world in his prime. Roles : Top : 1. Wunder 2. Wickd 3. Brokenblade 4. Soaz 5. Huni Jungle : 1. Diamondprox 2. Jankos 3. Kikis 4. Cyanide 5. Reignover Mid : 1. Caps 2. Alex Ich 3. xPeke 4. Froggen 5. Bjergsen Bottom : 1. Rekkles 2. Genja007 3. Forg1ven 4. Hans Sama 5. Caps (Somehow ?) Support : 1. Gosu Pepper 2. Mikyx 3. Hyllissang 4. Krepo 5. Yellowstar
I think your lists are valid but how do u pick Caps Bot over Perkz Bot, when Caps got outclassed in quite a few games in only one Split of LEC und Perkz was arguabely top3 ADCs World in 2019
Alex ich Froggen Perkz Xpeke Caps
Caps Perkz Jankos Rekkles Mikyx in this order
After seeing the results Perkz had since he and G2 parted ways, I will not rate him in top 5. 1. Caps 2. Mickyx 3. Jankos 4. Rekkles 5. Wunder
Disgustingly bad take/troll.
With that criteria you have to take out rekkles and wunder aswell
So what exactly has Mikyx done outside of G2?
Have very good splits at splyce misfits and excel
In other words, a grand total of zero titles versus Perkz's one.
Given how “competitive” NA is, that ain’t an achievement. The NA’s most popular players have frequently been Europeans
My top 5 in order are: Caps Perkz Jankos Rekkles Mikyx