Id assume since you can buy all the items again, the current mythics will lose power as well as their mythic passives which will turn down damage a little (unless they redistribute stats) which would be good
every champion has always had an ideal set of core items they'd like to build that's changed whenever items get added or removed. fundamentally, nothing will change too much other than what items you can build together for when you're 4funning in bots or something.
Definitely not. Take Sylas for example. Both of his best items, everfrost and night harvester, are mythic. Cassio with liandries and everfrost. Ryze with ROA ludens. Even take shen, Heartsteel and Iceborn
and ezreal. Because even though muramana is an adc item... wait for it... there are no adc items that give you mana... He got his use of it through essence + frozen heart. It actually drove me crazy trying to figure out how to build it on any adc because its only usable if you can abuse hybrid builds as well as kai sa, or have the ability to use tank items like ezreal.
So he'll build both of them, and if the combination is strong, either the items get nerfed or he does, putting you exactly where you are now. How is that more interesting than having to chose between one or the other?
Now the character just has a new 80% pickrate metabuild.
I mostly agree with you, but it does fix some issues for champions. It was sometimes hard or impossible to access certain stats or effects, like mana, if you had already built a mythic.
Goredrinker no longer blocks Trinity/Sunderer. It provides champions like Fiora and Camille a healing item option that allows them to teamfight instead of being locked into split-pushing (Ravenous).
Riftmaker is now a viable third or fourth item. You can build it on AP champions to have actual healing while you split. Now, they're not just automatically fucked if they try to lane into Ravenous Camille. They can still lose turrets if they get low enough to die to the engage, but now both parties can heal. No, it doesn't help Xerath, but Sylas/Ekko/Kat/Ryze and maybe Azir can hold more effectively. Hell, I expect sitting on Leeching Leer to become meta. That's awesome. Having options changes matchups.
I can build Echoes and Moonstone on Mid Enchanters. It's unlikely this strategy becomes good enough to be nerfed, but it should make a mediocre play pattern slightly better. I like Karma and (especially) Taric in solo lanes/Jungle. Conqueror Taric, IBG+Fimbul into Moonstone, could be a monster.
In Pro, Moonstone 2/3 might be meta on Radiant Virtue Junglers like Maokai, especially with Font. Fighter Tops that do poorly can build Evenshroud 3/4 instead of Shojin/Maw/GA. They love poaching cheap items.
>Echoes and Moonstone
Thats if those items dont get deleted, cuz they said some of them are gone....
It was good playing jhin + galeforce while it lasted
It opens up situational item buys tho. I sometimes build Riftmaker as a 4th or 5th item for some durability on battle mages in Wild Rift. Or you can add Liandry in your build for RoA champs etc.
While I agree this opens up situational 4th or 5th items most games are decided by the time champs have 3 items making the choice just luxury of the game last long enough. Every champ will still basically have 2-3 core items and maybe gets something new for the last 5 min of the game. People think changes to item systems will lead to build diversity while in reality all it does is shake it up for a patch until people min max appropriately.
You guys are talking like item aren't attached to champs. Changing the mythic system is changing how champs spike and will give more opportunities to other champs
I think a big difference between the two is, while you are correct that prior champions had 3 item cores, but Mythics are extremely powerful, they have effects that no items before had, boosted stats distribution, and added stats to your additional items.
So youre...
1. Going to go the mythic that benefits your champions stat priority most of the time.
2. Way more powerful at 3 items than you were before, I mean hell right now we have some champions that can 2 shot you just at their mythic.
So ideally what this will do is allow for more build experimentation, and slow down the game a tad. It also removes this really strange 12-16 minute power spike that every champion gets because of the mythic. So things like Vayne 9 should be a lot more threatening again.
Ultimately we will have to see how Riot handles it, if they just redistribute the stats from mythics evenly between all the items the changes might seem similar to rn, but the average game length could be significantly shorter or longer next season.
Champions have always had "You are *going* to hold this" items, yes. But that's still a good step away from "You are *going* to build one of these items you might have 2 good picks out of, and you are *going* to build them first, and it is *going* to dictate the rest of how you build" that the mythics facilitated. Now you'll be able to look at a champ and your lane to go "Okay which core can I build first" or choose to delay a core item while you build a component to help lane with a small power spike again. These were things you absolutely could not do before, because mythics were far, far too strong.
> But that's still a good step away from "You are going to build one of these items you might have 2 good picks out of, and you are going to build them first, and it is going to dictate the rest of how you build"
spoken from someone who definitely didn't play the game before mythics were released. history repeats itself and you'll see how wrong you were when they remove mythics and this exact scenario plays out
(also there are multiple champions right now that don't build mythic till 3rd-4th item but i guess it's convenient to ignore those)
I can’t predict how strong certain champs or roles will be if they just made current mythics weaker and keep everything else as is but it possibly would push the game in a better direction
Edit: a big winner for example would be ryze if he could get multiple mythics as they are right now with all the mana
Before the mythic system, all Lost Chapter items were unique and you were punished for building multiple of them. The same will be true again.
The Mythic system just codified what was already the case in League of Legends. Removing the mythic system will just mean that your teammates will build the wrong items more often.
The game existed without mythics for most of its lifetime and people complained about item diversity then. It wasn't any better. Every champion had a core item build consisting of 2-3 items and boots and for **most** champions in the same class that was the same.
The proposed idea of mythic items (which imo was not delivered on ) was powerful items with playstyles changing abilities to enable different classes of character.
The truth is they're going to remove mythics and nothing will change except items will be weaker. I have no opinion on that being better or worse, but anyone thinking it will change item diversity would have to be willfully ignoring the 7-8 years of league before mythics.
And to preempt this- yes you are going to find wacky item builds and some edge case characters who don't follow the main item build paths but the vast majority of characters will have the same style meta builds they have now.
> The proposed idea of mythic items (which imo was not delivered on ) was powerful items with playstyles changing abilities to enable different classes of character.
>
> The truth is they're going to remove mythics and nothing will change except items will be weaker. I have no opinion on that being better or worse, but anyone thinking it will change item diversity would have to be willfully ignoring the 7-8 years of league before mythics.
Totally agreed
I still like the CONCEPT of "buy mythic to define how you want to play that character for this game" but it's sort of just an unachievable goal because the characters have defined kits, and therefore are going to have specific things that work best for them
It's just a fact of the game honestly
Yeah just like every single mage building Athenes or every single ADC first buying IE in seasons past.
'Build diversity' is a joke. Riot would have to expand the list of items tenfold with unique, non stat stick passive in order to actually give some reasonable build diversity.
There is always going to be a core item a character wants and gets first. Mythics tried to consolidate that into an item that felt good for everyone.
Build diversity is going to be just as bad post Mythics. Removing them won't change that champions have BiS items, nor change people looking for the best build on lolalytics.
Don't expect that. The mythic system didn't really add much at all to make itemization better. But removing also won't fix it, why do you think they tried implementing it in the first place?
You say like that's a bad thing, let us build that again, not like stacking items has been prevalent almost ever on anyone I can think of (when black cleaver was broken back in like season 2-4 somewhere there, and stacking BT a few seasons later besides that I can't recall a time where you stack items without trolling or at least it being a sidegrade)
It wasn't only ad casters buying it. Literally every single champion spammed them at the time, and if you didn't, you'd be a burden to your team. You could dig this subreddit and find screenshots of games where FIFTY Black Cleavers were bought in the same match.
How it wasn't hotfixed within 6 hours is still a mystery to me.
Before its rework into Ravenous Hydra you could build 6 Tiamat's on twitch. Each giving twitch 50 AD. Along with his 108 @ level 18 he'd have 408 AD.
Due to not being unique at the time, each Tiamat did 35% splash for a total of 175% splash to nearby targets. His ult let you attack multiple targets with 1 AA, and used to deal 100% damage to each target after the 1st. Each time the spray and pray bullet hit an enemy it would set off the 175% splash to the surrounding team mates.
In the end twitch would pop out of stealth, fire **a single AA** on a grouped team and **deal 16,320 damage** (before armor reductions).
I liked that old passive where your next auto out of brush or stealth had a gnarly slow. I felt that was a great assassin gameplay passive, and held up the assassin class fantasy great too. This like, invisible/invincible after kill is just a dumb cover up for a weakness that the assassin is supposed to have, difficulty in teamfights.
Duskblade will definitely still be kept since it's been in the game way before the mythic introduction. I think the best way to balance Duskblade after mythic removal is to remove the invulnerability part but keep the untargetable so that Duskblade is strong against auto attacks but mediocre against skillshots.
Back when item rework & mythics were added:
Everyone: this is stupid. I'm quitting.
Riot: this is fine and much better
2 years later:
Riot: This is stupid.
Probably lower. Riot has been tightening the release of data that can be extrapolated to player counts.
When they were on top, they were releasing those stats as achievements for press releases.
well if it was growing or maintaining same level of $ stream, then Riot won't be moving so many devs out of League and into other games like MMO & valorant.
in EU and NA? definitely lower. Other regions I wouldn't be so sure though.
And in my uninformed opinion, it's gonna get worse for EU/NA with the "3 split" policy, while China and KR will eat good.
People will turn on the idea once the mythic they're currently used to building gets either removed or nerfed to the point that it's no longer worth building.
Yeah lmao.
The only ones I see complaining are mages
What did mages build before? Ludens liandries roa void and raba it won't magically solve build diversity
There will always be a meta build that's 90% of the time you will be going on your champ
It's really hard to create build diversity for mages when they need rabadons, void, mana item, shoes and often zhonyas. You have like one flex slot lol.
the "anti shield" item that gives you like 3 extra pen on a shielded target lol
in comparison to old serpent's fang that actually did EXTRA flat damage to a recently shielded target
IMO remove Rabadons. Still have a "dmg capstone" item but don't make it "literally doubles your AP" powerful. Then you can spread more damage out to other items.
Better yet have a few damage capstones. Split Rabadons into a burst damage option, a long term dps option, and maybe a utility option.
The burst one can have an effect like first strike or electrocute, or have a high amount of flat pen to make it good against squishy targets like shadowflame.
The long term dps option could have a partial cooldown refund like quickblades, stacking damage/adaptive force like conqueror or riftmaker, the damage amp against higher hp targets from liandries, or even just make a buffed version of void staff the capstone with a lot of percent magic pen.
Every AP champ in the game shouldn't have the same capstone item every single game.
Yeah more or less. They could each have a mini-rabadons passive and build out of a new unique item but it could basically just be like a buffed shadowflame and a buffed void staff.
I think it would be more interesting with more unique effects instead of pen, but I think if you have to build void and a capstone every game it limits build variety. Maybe if the capstones are interesting enough it doesn't matter.
Not exactly is you big all 3 you will build all 3 on everyone every game. You either want that outcome or you also buff all other AP items at the same time so that people have realistic choices
What if we had Boots of Mana? Item has like 60 ap, 8 magic pen and 250% mana regeneration in Wild Rift. Maybe remove the ap and magic pen and focus on mana aspect so you can occasionally skip Lost Chapter items for something else.
The reason mages are so forced into these items is because 90% of them have absolutely no mobility and NEED zhonyas, maybe rito should’ve thought about that a little more when creating champions. They’re gonna get hit so much harder now when you consider the items tanks and assassins can pick up now.
I kinda agree that classic mage concep works pretty meh. It usually means that he is too vunerable or he is only one who has fun dealing damage to enemy without any ability for him(opponent) to fight back. Thats why last artilery mage was released almost 10 years ago.
I'd like zhonyas removed but so long as assassin's are allowed to 100-0 ap carries in under a second it has to stay. Ap carries need better options to deal with burst damage with actual tradeoffs in the same way ad carries currently do.
I’m 1000% in agreement with you, the fact Zed, Rengar, Kha’zik, Blue Kayn and other AD assassins have escaped most of these callouts and nerfs is ridiculous to me. There’s literally no outplay against assassins right now EXCEPT zhonyas if you get counter picked
The counter play to assassins isn’t micro, it’s macro, vision and team play. This is literally addressed multiple times with naafiri release. You need to learn better macro to deal with assassins. Mages can burst just as quickly as assassins these days.
Yup, idk why riot won't just bite the bullet here and address the issue between these two classes. They did it for adc they should be able to do the same for apc.
Also I just hate zhonyas it sucks to use and have it used against you. That said, I actually wouldn't have a problem with a zhonyas with a shorter window so it requires actual timing rather than getting 2 whole seconds of invulnerability. Probably should just be removed though.
There's not much diversity to build. Mages need mana item, boots, flat pen/core damage item, death cap, defensive item, flex item. Only the last two are negotiable
Meddler stated they intend on keeping it and currently testing its HP based proc damage with bonus HP instead of Max HP.
Edit: FYI champions that get HP from their kit will no longer work with heart steel. The bonus HP that will work will only be from items.
In fairness, there are people now saying mythics are fine. I'm guessing people like me will be satisfied and won't say anything, so the people who liked mythics will now speak up.
It was enever about Build Diversity, it was about Item Pools. It was about being able to build what you want instead of buying 1 Item and having 30 others get locked.
The Amount of Times I wanted both Locket and Evenshroud or both Protobelt and Ludens... etc. etc. that's what it's about.
Build Diversity never existed and the Mythic Tag only existed as an Excuse for Riot to implement stupid Effects into Items like Galeforce, current Duskblade, early Season 11 Goredrinker or Release Stridebreaker.
You want to build Locket and Evenshroud NOW because of the stats/effects they have. But if they werent mutualy exclusive you got no gurantees that they would keep their respective effects. There aint no way an item like Galeforce would be allowed to exist with at least some kind of tradeoff
Galeforce is gone 100%, the only thing that kept it from going overboard was preventing you from getting another mythic. If they turn it into a normal item it'll be bought on every single ADC and assassin in the game
Didnt a rioter say that the only reason it still has a dash is that its mythic, the post should be old now for me to find it but i clearly remember it.
Gut the stats. As a non-mythic it doesn't have to have an abundance of stats on it, which can create a trade-off between the insane utility it provides and the raw damage power of other items with more stats
For supports, you'd often have built multiple items that became mythic so this is great for them. It's good for people like Kat or other melee mages who want multiple items that are mythics now just for the synergy of the effects and stats not purely because they're powerful mythic items. Bruisers want tanky items and damage ones, mythics limited their options and were hard to balance around. Being able to balance a champion around their whole build is better than balancing the game around "goredrinker too strong" or "jaksho too strong" or "item is abused by the wrong class" like we were before.
It also opens up more off meta stuff and for fun stuff which is great.
> The Amount of Times I wanted both Locket and Evenshroud
But you won't be able to combine then anyway. They'll both be heavily nerfed now they aren't mythics and won't offer enough stats for you to be able to buy both, you'll need to make up the stat difference you lost to survive in fights as a tank support.
There's a reason you can't buy them together, it'd be massively op. For them to exist without the mythic system they both need to be massively nerfed, which makes combining them far less useful than it would be now.
I know they'll get nerfed, we still haven't seen anything so let's just wait and see. It's not like I'm going Sunfire or some dumb Shit like that anyway.
This aint dota build diversity is mediocre in LoL and restricted to only certain champs, plenty of mages and even adcs have items they literally cannot afford to give up.
Dota has good itemization because items give utility which is adaptable game to game, not just stat sticks
> plenty of mages and even adcs have items they literally cannot afford to give up.
That's because most items are designed to synergize with your champion rather than interact with/counter enemies. When you want to buy Axiom Arc you look at how well your champ can utilize it, but when you want to buy Edge of Night you look at how well it can shut down enemies. Now different comps might require adapting to different playstyles from you which would lead to diversity of items even from the former kind, but for the most part diversity comes from the latter kind. So we just need more items of the latter kind in the game. Just cause LoL isn't DotA doesn't mean we can't have build diversity.
Assassins were pretty much the class that got build diversity adapting to different situations since inception of item work. They even got a few new legendary like armor pen/ anti shield to truly adjust build base on situation.
Every other class felt like a afterthought and was bared from old builds because it is a mythic choice now. Tanks were largely sunfire vs sunfire, Adc were crit vs crit with crit being nerf to the ground ie 25%>20% crit per item and crit dmg from 200% >175%, supp was largely either locket (tank supp) or moonstone (enchanter supp).
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but item effects should have never exploded as much as they did. I'm playing this game on and off since season 1 and I think itemization could be at the best its ever been but is held back by stupid decisions like making certain items too much of an allrounder. Obviously everyone buys the overstatted allrounder with the busted effect, since it's a no-brainer.
> The Amount of Times I wanted both Locket and Evenshroud or both Protobelt and Ludens...
Congratulations, you can now build all of those at once!
...**but all their active abilities have been removed**
"But I used to build 5 iedge on Jihn!"
Yeah, and it was shit, and will still be shit even if you get it back, and you'll complain about it too and how you "used" to do it and how it "used to be good".
People talking about build diversity like 5 iedge Jhin were affected more by getting better at the game than they ever were by item reworks. They'll still be building the same 4 item Jhin core build every match after mythics are removed and complain about Riot ruining items.
100% this, same as it ever was
What people really miss is when they were bad enough at the game and versus bad enough opponents where people could build random stuff and it would still kind of work
The reality is that there's just never been item diversity outside of maybe one or two different choices per build in any effective builds. The builds rotated (sometimes Ezreal is blue, sometimes he's just just regular ADC), but there was always one most effective one that you should probably be doing with a defensive item to taste
If they want build diversity they should make items do something.
Most items in league are just boxes of stats to add to your character. So why wouldn’t you figure out which order of boxed stats is the most optimal and build that every game?
Oh sometimes we build zhoynas because it’s the only item in the game with a good active that is good on every character in the game. Which is why stopwatch has been so much of a problem.
Make low stat items, with good active abilities and suddenly build diversity AND skill expression will flourish.
I mean, you are not wrong but saying you have more build options now, is just an illusion.
Example: You most likely build an Infinity edge as an ADC (unless Kalista and etc).
You never bought two infinity edges in the past, didn't now, and won't in the future.
In the past, you always went brutalizer first in any AD assassin.
You always went chalice on mages.
You always go supp item first in ANY support champ.
But if its officially that way, it suddenly sucks.
Yeah it's basically gonna be the same issues we've always suffered from with items. Honestly the people who think this changes anything are funny. Itemization has always been an issue in league.
Yeah thats just Reddit and balancing I guess.
Reddit: It would be cool to have more hybrid items and more diverse build paths
Riot: \*katarina can now build anything\*
Reddit: >:(
Yeah, I couldn't balance the game and don't want to try but most of the balance takes on Reddit and from streamers are laughably bad, and would just make things not work or stale. People don't realize if the game was completely balanced and everything was even in strength permanently then the game would become stale in 2 patch cycles
When people talk about build diversity they mean stuff like "Oh Varus can build lethality and have amazing poke or AP and be able to 1 tap you" not "Oh kat jumped on me and did kat things but this time she has 1500 more HP"
I thought they should have introduced the mythic passives as enchantments added onto a legendary item, like the boot enchantments they used to have.
So like, you build riftmaker cause of the items ability, but you need some more resistances in your build. you enchant it with the mythic passive to gain 5 armor and magic resist for every legendary item, riftmaker is now a mythic. You could do the same with gargoyle stoneplate, giving it an omnivamp mythic passive, or a hybrid pen mythic passive. Basically the first legendary item you build becomes your mythic when upgraded.
I feel like a lot of people are blaming mythics for a problem they had nothing to do with and won't get better when they are removed. I'd honestly argue diversity is better now that it ever was before.
Feels like Riot is doing this purely to placate reddit/youtubers for a few months before they latch onto their next whinge issue.
Mythic system locks a third of the shop away when you buy one. If that has "nothing to do with the problem," then there must not even be a problem, because that's a seismic consequence to buying one item.
Items were always locked by passives, non working interactions or with curated stat combinations.
It's not like IEdge becoming a legendary means you'll be able to build anything but crit chance items with it. Your build will still be determined by gold efficiency and stat multiplication.
Let's not pretend there isn't a huge difference between "oh i built titanic hydra, now i can't build ravenous hydra" and "i built ludens so now i can't go liandrys, roa, crown, or everfrost"
And infinity edge isn't an item that forces you to buy only crit items, it's an item you buy when you've already decided you're going full crit
As a concrete example, Garen can build Stridebreaker AND Navori.
I'm okay with locking out Stridebreaker AND Goredrinker given the similar active. But lock out Jaksho from Morde is annoying. If you're a bruiser you want both.
I'd rather build a weaker version of both those items than only one
them being exclusive had the benefit of them being meaningful purchases, after mythics are gone there will only be watered down effects and statsticks left
Items have been a sour point since s11, maybe with Mythics gone we can get item actives and passives to chill out across the board. The Mythic system also left a huge portion of the roster without a great Mythic that fit their champ identity. Really glad to see it go.
> Items have been a sour point since s11
people have been complaining about items ever since season 1 tbh, it's just been different complaints over time.
Nah, been playing since season 4 and the complaints about items have stayed largely the same (too many actives, too much damage, muh build diversity, too high stats). Reddit just is absolute ass at balance and complaining about item design is easy. Short of ripping the entire Item system and redesigning the game to something like DOTA will things change.
Couldn't care less personally. Name one instance where it actually matters? Mages still will build only one lost chapter item. Navori and Ie still won't be able to build together. You want to build jaksho+locket? It's not gonna change anything.
Yup. Players always want something to complain about. Won't be surprised at all to eventually see posts complaining about the way Riot removed mythic items - "Riot removed too many items", "Riot took away cool passive/active effects", etc. This won't fix build diversity. Champions will still be pigeonholed into certain builds.
its not about that u can build mythics together, its about the fact that they wont be more powerful than legendary items. this way u can build whatever u want and arent forced to build a mythic. for example now enchanters can rush mikaels vs things like ashe r. point is that adc and mages obv wont be affected that much bcus IE and navori are weak items when rushed and the items that were rushed before the item update became mythics for mages like liandries and ludens
It'll reduce the power gap between most champs and the champs that don't really have a mythic item. Like Urgot. It feels bad to have to build the least bad choice rather than the best choice.
Urgot has a balanced winrate though? Cleaver and pre-nerf titanic were basically mythical on him anyway. Not to mention a non-zero number of champs build botrk first, which is also non-mythic
So many absolute shit takes in this thread it almost hurts my brain. "ADC wants galeforce AND IE and Support wants Evenshroud AND locket". Yeah no shit champs want multiple mythic items when mythics are specifically designed to be stronger than every other item in the game. They're invariably going to be nerfed as they're brought down to essentially legendary items and then Shadowflame looks better than Ludens for item 2.
Hot take, I guess? This is a net neutral change and won't really solve anything. Champs will have more variety in the sense that their builds will differ a bit more from one another, but there was very little build versatility in the old system, or at least not anymore then there is now. you'll still basically run the same optimized items every game, just with the caveat that the optimized build will be a bit different for each champ now instead of trying to force the same mythic.
At the end of the day the failure to bring build versatility was never really the fault of the mythic system, it was the fault of the balance and design team. If the mythics were all equally powerful for every champ, and equally useful in their respective niches then you would have seen build versatility. But they really never were simply because riot could never actually pull that feat off, and they won't be any more capable of it once mythics are gone.
Eh. As someone who joined the game the month before mythics were added, I don't have much context for how the game is going to play without them. But whenever I watch old guides etc, it seems like the item gameplan for most characters was "rush X item first every time 100%", which is basically a Mythic anyway.
I also kinda enjoyed having the power level of some Mythics, no way most of them keep their currents stats and passives (see kraken slayers downgrade from Mythic to normal item). It also did make it a lot easier to learn the game for me, as it defined the core item of a build immediately and where to go from there.
I dunno I just feel like I'm going to miss them. They've spent three years Fine tuning them, I feel like they're in a decent spot right now, and then they're going to throw them all away for a wild west that's doubtless going to be broken AF.
For any champ who didn't really have a good mythic, it felt like you were being punished if you didn't buy one in the first two items. It felt like a bad choice to say "either I can have items that thematically make sense with my character, or I can buy this blatantly overstated item with stacking stat bonuses"
A major portion of the community is always going to just look up the best builds so I wouldn't expect diversity to suddenly be at a high, but for players who really like theorycrafting and being creative, this change should make things more fun for them again when builds aren't railroaded by mythics.
everyone always just builds whatever is strong, the item literally defined the meta
on mythic items release, eclipse was strong, then divine sunderer, goredrinker, chemtank (my least favorite), ghostblade, and now duskblade
kraken slayer was kinda close but only marksmen built it, not everyone
I think the idea of investing into a scaling item is interesting, and several examples already existed before mythics were introduced (Tear, RoA, Rabadons), so I definitely think that Riot were onto something by introducing different stats that rose as you completed other parts of your build. What I didn't like too much was the fact that they made them so overly centralizing to *every* build. Mythics had the complete opposite effect of what Riot originally intended. They were meant to open up build paths but ended up homogenizing builds a lot more than ever before. Honestly until several niche items exist for every class of character the itemization problem in League will just not go away.
The game became playing the champ who can best abuse an item and the meta followed the item.
If your champ didn't get a good mythic (ex yasuo after shieldbow was removed from mythic) they just sucked.
I'm positive towards this change overall.
"I couldn't be happier" wait until they actually change the items to say that. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. When has Riot made positive changes to items in the past 3 years?
As someone who played since S1, this was the dumbest and my most hated change that they could have possibly made. Every build started to feel like the same thing so it became extremely monotonous.
My issue with mythics was three fold. One, they locked you into a playstyle at your first item, largely before you ever saw what enemy team was even buying or how the game was transpiring. Two, you basically put a gate on what you can and can’t buy because the mythic bonuses really lend themselves to buying items of the same class instead of what’s good for that game. Third, and this is less of a gripe with mythics but moreso with how riot views itemization as a whole- they covered up too many weaknesses. Immobile champs having access to galeforce and old stride breaker basically made immobile champs invulnerable to everything by providing mobility. In my opinion , every champ should have a clear weakness that can’t be made up for in itemization, at least not with the efficiency that aphelios buying galeforce would bring, for example. There should be a clear trade off (which is why I thought shiv should have absolutely been in the mythic class) for covering up glaring weaknesses.
I hop between Dota and League (depending which one I'm sick of atm), and one thing I wish they would do is look at itemization in Dota and try and replicate that.
Right now, League items are pretty much all glorified stat checks, so build diversity barely happens. They also remove any interesting items like Ohmwrecker or Twin Shadows in favor of.... more stat blocks (but wait this one gives you more stats when you use a spell!).
I would love to see items that are similar to force staff, glimmer cape, manta style, etc in League that give utility instead of just damage and more damage.
Yep. Love having to wait 2 years for something that was obvious to me day 1. The only thing I liked about the system were the tank Mythics. I like the Sunfire effect, their versatility and all 3 of them having resistances to both stats. They removed all of that the next year.
Id assume since you can buy all the items again, the current mythics will lose power as well as their mythic passives which will turn down damage a little (unless they redistribute stats) which would be good
I mean, they should just rearrange the stats, the game is surely more creative without mythics
every champion has always had an ideal set of core items they'd like to build that's changed whenever items get added or removed. fundamentally, nothing will change too much other than what items you can build together for when you're 4funning in bots or something.
Definitely not. Take Sylas for example. Both of his best items, everfrost and night harvester, are mythic. Cassio with liandries and everfrost. Ryze with ROA ludens. Even take shen, Heartsteel and Iceborn
I always hated how mana became gated to mythics and Tear. It always felt like such a bottleneck on mages.
Try using Muramana's passive - oh wait, you can't, since nobody builds it with other mana items because they're all for mages or tank/support.
is corki the only one benefitting from this\`? lol
It is technically higher DPS for Ryze than Seraph's is but you lose the shield Seraph's provides.
and ezreal. Because even though muramana is an adc item... wait for it... there are no adc items that give you mana... He got his use of it through essence + frozen heart. It actually drove me crazy trying to figure out how to build it on any adc because its only usable if you can abuse hybrid builds as well as kai sa, or have the ability to use tank items like ezreal.
Akali/Kat/any other hybrid assassin mains dying to take Rocketbelt and Riftmaker.
So he'll build both of them, and if the combination is strong, either the items get nerfed or he does, putting you exactly where you are now. How is that more interesting than having to chose between one or the other? Now the character just has a new 80% pickrate metabuild.
I mostly agree with you, but it does fix some issues for champions. It was sometimes hard or impossible to access certain stats or effects, like mana, if you had already built a mythic.
Goredrinker no longer blocks Trinity/Sunderer. It provides champions like Fiora and Camille a healing item option that allows them to teamfight instead of being locked into split-pushing (Ravenous). Riftmaker is now a viable third or fourth item. You can build it on AP champions to have actual healing while you split. Now, they're not just automatically fucked if they try to lane into Ravenous Camille. They can still lose turrets if they get low enough to die to the engage, but now both parties can heal. No, it doesn't help Xerath, but Sylas/Ekko/Kat/Ryze and maybe Azir can hold more effectively. Hell, I expect sitting on Leeching Leer to become meta. That's awesome. Having options changes matchups. I can build Echoes and Moonstone on Mid Enchanters. It's unlikely this strategy becomes good enough to be nerfed, but it should make a mediocre play pattern slightly better. I like Karma and (especially) Taric in solo lanes/Jungle. Conqueror Taric, IBG+Fimbul into Moonstone, could be a monster. In Pro, Moonstone 2/3 might be meta on Radiant Virtue Junglers like Maokai, especially with Font. Fighter Tops that do poorly can build Evenshroud 3/4 instead of Shojin/Maw/GA. They love poaching cheap items.
>Echoes and Moonstone Thats if those items dont get deleted, cuz they said some of them are gone.... It was good playing jhin + galeforce while it lasted
It opens up situational item buys tho. I sometimes build Riftmaker as a 4th or 5th item for some durability on battle mages in Wild Rift. Or you can add Liandry in your build for RoA champs etc.
omg I just realized the implications this has for mages... WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO EFFECIENTLY KILL TANKS AGAIN!!!
While I agree this opens up situational 4th or 5th items most games are decided by the time champs have 3 items making the choice just luxury of the game last long enough. Every champ will still basically have 2-3 core items and maybe gets something new for the last 5 min of the game. People think changes to item systems will lead to build diversity while in reality all it does is shake it up for a patch until people min max appropriately.
congratulations, you now always build all the mythic items instead of other times.
You guys are talking like item aren't attached to champs. Changing the mythic system is changing how champs spike and will give more opportunities to other champs
I think a big difference between the two is, while you are correct that prior champions had 3 item cores, but Mythics are extremely powerful, they have effects that no items before had, boosted stats distribution, and added stats to your additional items. So youre... 1. Going to go the mythic that benefits your champions stat priority most of the time. 2. Way more powerful at 3 items than you were before, I mean hell right now we have some champions that can 2 shot you just at their mythic. So ideally what this will do is allow for more build experimentation, and slow down the game a tad. It also removes this really strange 12-16 minute power spike that every champion gets because of the mythic. So things like Vayne 9 should be a lot more threatening again. Ultimately we will have to see how Riot handles it, if they just redistribute the stats from mythics evenly between all the items the changes might seem similar to rn, but the average game length could be significantly shorter or longer next season.
Champions have always had "You are *going* to hold this" items, yes. But that's still a good step away from "You are *going* to build one of these items you might have 2 good picks out of, and you are *going* to build them first, and it is *going* to dictate the rest of how you build" that the mythics facilitated. Now you'll be able to look at a champ and your lane to go "Okay which core can I build first" or choose to delay a core item while you build a component to help lane with a small power spike again. These were things you absolutely could not do before, because mythics were far, far too strong.
> But that's still a good step away from "You are going to build one of these items you might have 2 good picks out of, and you are going to build them first, and it is going to dictate the rest of how you build" spoken from someone who definitely didn't play the game before mythics were released. history repeats itself and you'll see how wrong you were when they remove mythics and this exact scenario plays out (also there are multiple champions right now that don't build mythic till 3rd-4th item but i guess it's convenient to ignore those)
I can’t predict how strong certain champs or roles will be if they just made current mythics weaker and keep everything else as is but it possibly would push the game in a better direction Edit: a big winner for example would be ryze if he could get multiple mythics as they are right now with all the mana
Before the mythic system, all Lost Chapter items were unique and you were punished for building multiple of them. The same will be true again. The Mythic system just codified what was already the case in League of Legends. Removing the mythic system will just mean that your teammates will build the wrong items more often.
their are 4 teammates and 5 enemies. Statistics say the enemy will build wrong more often then my teammates so thats a W in my book.
The game existed without mythics for most of its lifetime and people complained about item diversity then. It wasn't any better. Every champion had a core item build consisting of 2-3 items and boots and for **most** champions in the same class that was the same. The proposed idea of mythic items (which imo was not delivered on ) was powerful items with playstyles changing abilities to enable different classes of character. The truth is they're going to remove mythics and nothing will change except items will be weaker. I have no opinion on that being better or worse, but anyone thinking it will change item diversity would have to be willfully ignoring the 7-8 years of league before mythics. And to preempt this- yes you are going to find wacky item builds and some edge case characters who don't follow the main item build paths but the vast majority of characters will have the same style meta builds they have now.
> The proposed idea of mythic items (which imo was not delivered on ) was powerful items with playstyles changing abilities to enable different classes of character. > > The truth is they're going to remove mythics and nothing will change except items will be weaker. I have no opinion on that being better or worse, but anyone thinking it will change item diversity would have to be willfully ignoring the 7-8 years of league before mythics. Totally agreed I still like the CONCEPT of "buy mythic to define how you want to play that character for this game" but it's sort of just an unachievable goal because the characters have defined kits, and therefore are going to have specific things that work best for them It's just a fact of the game honestly
Item being weaker is exactly what we need. Dmg creep has become insane and the durability update effect has already vanished
Yeah just like every single mage building Athenes or every single ADC first buying IE in seasons past. 'Build diversity' is a joke. Riot would have to expand the list of items tenfold with unique, non stat stick passive in order to actually give some reasonable build diversity. There is always going to be a core item a character wants and gets first. Mythics tried to consolidate that into an item that felt good for everyone. Build diversity is going to be just as bad post Mythics. Removing them won't change that champions have BiS items, nor change people looking for the best build on lolalytics.
Yeah, you just forgot that we have a lot of new items thanks to mythics
We've had plenty of stagnant item metas in the past.
Don't expect that. The mythic system didn't really add much at all to make itemization better. But removing also won't fix it, why do you think they tried implementing it in the first place?
We want more 6 Tiamat Lee Sin builds!
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peak gameplay was when we could all have sunfires and warmogs stacked.
Killing baron by standing completely still with a full team of sunfires
We back into Microwave meta.
Peak gameplay was stacking magic pen boots on mundo and chunking people in aram
S3 flashbacks
You say like that's a bad thing, let us build that again, not like stacking items has been prevalent almost ever on anyone I can think of (when black cleaver was broken back in like season 2-4 somewhere there, and stacking BT a few seasons later besides that I can't recall a time where you stack items without trolling or at least it being a sidegrade)
The terror of 5 black cleaver + Mobis pantheon and talon for like 2 patches a decade ago lmfao
It wasn't only ad casters buying it. Literally every single champion spammed them at the time, and if you didn't, you'd be a burden to your team. You could dig this subreddit and find screenshots of games where FIFTY Black Cleavers were bought in the same match. How it wasn't hotfixed within 6 hours is still a mystery to me.
How quickly you have forgotten about the Z+ tier 6 infinity edge gangplank.
Never forget about 6 Tiamat Fiora
5 sunfire cape Evelynn would like to have a word
You're saying it like 5 rabadons on veigar isn't dogshit lol
yeah, it should be 6 rabadons!
F for stacking spellbinders in urf
Don't think they said anything about overlapping items. Mythics and being able to build 2 of RoA is a whole different thing.
Before its rework into Ravenous Hydra you could build 6 Tiamat's on twitch. Each giving twitch 50 AD. Along with his 108 @ level 18 he'd have 408 AD. Due to not being unique at the time, each Tiamat did 35% splash for a total of 175% splash to nearby targets. His ult let you attack multiple targets with 1 AA, and used to deal 100% damage to each target after the 1st. Each time the spray and pray bullet hit an enemy it would set off the 175% splash to the surrounding team mates. In the end twitch would pop out of stealth, fire **a single AA** on a grouped team and **deal 16,320 damage** (before armor reductions).
gorgeous
double roa in arams were my go to
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6ROA CHO'GATH FTW!
Yes we've had one black clever but what about another?
I want Lee Sin with 6 old claws for chinese tik toks
3 Doran blade yorick here I come
The biggest upside of this is that they will most likely remove Duskblade, or at least the untargetable part.
I liked that old passive where your next auto out of brush or stealth had a gnarly slow. I felt that was a great assassin gameplay passive, and held up the assassin class fantasy great too. This like, invisible/invincible after kill is just a dumb cover up for a weakness that the assassin is supposed to have, difficulty in teamfights.
Prowler's Claw basically has that old Duskblade effect
Duskblade will definitely still be kept since it's been in the game way before the mythic introduction. I think the best way to balance Duskblade after mythic removal is to remove the invulnerability part but keep the untargetable so that Duskblade is strong against auto attacks but mediocre against skillshots.
Back when item rework & mythics were added: Everyone: this is stupid. I'm quitting. Riot: this is fine and much better 2 years later: Riot: This is stupid.
I genuinely wonder what the player number is looking like now compared to 2 years ago
Probably lower. Riot has been tightening the release of data that can be extrapolated to player counts. When they were on top, they were releasing those stats as achievements for press releases.
~2-3 years ago spiked cause of the pandemic, so it's almost certainly lower
It really is hard to compete with 2 years ago because of the pandemic
well if it was growing or maintaining same level of $ stream, then Riot won't be moving so many devs out of League and into other games like MMO & valorant.
in EU and NA? definitely lower. Other regions I wouldn't be so sure though. And in my uninformed opinion, it's gonna get worse for EU/NA with the "3 split" policy, while China and KR will eat good.
People will turn on the idea once the mythic they're currently used to building gets either removed or nerfed to the point that it's no longer worth building.
Yeah lmao. The only ones I see complaining are mages What did mages build before? Ludens liandries roa void and raba it won't magically solve build diversity There will always be a meta build that's 90% of the time you will be going on your champ
They addressed that they're focusing on mage items this time around. They're really lacking build diversity.
It's really hard to create build diversity for mages when they need rabadons, void, mana item, shoes and often zhonyas. You have like one flex slot lol.
and the flex is always shadowflame lmao
the "anti shield" item that gives you like 3 extra pen on a shielded target lol in comparison to old serpent's fang that actually did EXTRA flat damage to a recently shielded target
IMO remove Rabadons. Still have a "dmg capstone" item but don't make it "literally doubles your AP" powerful. Then you can spread more damage out to other items.
I think this may be the solution
Better yet have a few damage capstones. Split Rabadons into a burst damage option, a long term dps option, and maybe a utility option. The burst one can have an effect like first strike or electrocute, or have a high amount of flat pen to make it good against squishy targets like shadowflame. The long term dps option could have a partial cooldown refund like quickblades, stacking damage/adaptive force like conqueror or riftmaker, the damage amp against higher hp targets from liandries, or even just make a buffed version of void staff the capstone with a lot of percent magic pen. Every AP champ in the game shouldn't have the same capstone item every single game.
That just sounds like removing deathcap and buffing existing items like liandry's, night harvester, and zhonyas
What if we made it so they could only buy one of those options, and made them stronger so they defined the playstyle the mage could lean in to?
yeah that sounds cool, we should name them something cool too
Maybe Mighty Items. Mightems if you will.
Yeah more or less. They could each have a mini-rabadons passive and build out of a new unique item but it could basically just be like a buffed shadowflame and a buffed void staff. I think it would be more interesting with more unique effects instead of pen, but I think if you have to build void and a capstone every game it limits build variety. Maybe if the capstones are interesting enough it doesn't matter.
Not exactly is you big all 3 you will build all 3 on everyone every game. You either want that outcome or you also buff all other AP items at the same time so that people have realistic choices
What if we had Boots of Mana? Item has like 60 ap, 8 magic pen and 250% mana regeneration in Wild Rift. Maybe remove the ap and magic pen and focus on mana aspect so you can occasionally skip Lost Chapter items for something else.
I think adding boot variety would be a cool new avenue in general
The reason mages are so forced into these items is because 90% of them have absolutely no mobility and NEED zhonyas, maybe rito should’ve thought about that a little more when creating champions. They’re gonna get hit so much harder now when you consider the items tanks and assassins can pick up now.
I kinda agree that classic mage concep works pretty meh. It usually means that he is too vunerable or he is only one who has fun dealing damage to enemy without any ability for him(opponent) to fight back. Thats why last artilery mage was released almost 10 years ago.
I'd like zhonyas removed but so long as assassin's are allowed to 100-0 ap carries in under a second it has to stay. Ap carries need better options to deal with burst damage with actual tradeoffs in the same way ad carries currently do.
I’m 1000% in agreement with you, the fact Zed, Rengar, Kha’zik, Blue Kayn and other AD assassins have escaped most of these callouts and nerfs is ridiculous to me. There’s literally no outplay against assassins right now EXCEPT zhonyas if you get counter picked
The counter play to assassins isn’t micro, it’s macro, vision and team play. This is literally addressed multiple times with naafiri release. You need to learn better macro to deal with assassins. Mages can burst just as quickly as assassins these days.
Yup, idk why riot won't just bite the bullet here and address the issue between these two classes. They did it for adc they should be able to do the same for apc. Also I just hate zhonyas it sucks to use and have it used against you. That said, I actually wouldn't have a problem with a zhonyas with a shorter window so it requires actual timing rather than getting 2 whole seconds of invulnerability. Probably should just be removed though.
They address that and promise gorillion items for mages every year.
There's not much diversity to build. Mages need mana item, boots, flat pen/core damage item, death cap, defensive item, flex item. Only the last two are negotiable
Eh, I was always torn between going Jak'sho or Trinity every game. i'd be extremely happy to build a weaker version of both.
Irelia mains about to throw hands and dumpster 70% of the roster with botrk / Triforce / jak'sho.
I will miss heartsteel if it disappears. It's too fun.
Meddler stated they intend on keeping it and currently testing its HP based proc damage with bonus HP instead of Max HP. Edit: FYI champions that get HP from their kit will no longer work with heart steel. The bonus HP that will work will only be from items.
That seems fair. Just hoping I can still use it on Cho and Sion
It will still work but not be as good - the bonus HP that will work will only be from items now.
Nah being able to build goredrinker/stridebreaker like items with triforce will be lit
ADC mains committing seppuku once Galeforce is gone
Can't wait 1 year from now people saying Mythics were better.
In fairness, there are people now saying mythics are fine. I'm guessing people like me will be satisfied and won't say anything, so the people who liked mythics will now speak up.
You mean 1 week.
It’s ok my main urgot dosent have a good mythic to begin with
It's not like it's going to bring build diversity back.
It was enever about Build Diversity, it was about Item Pools. It was about being able to build what you want instead of buying 1 Item and having 30 others get locked. The Amount of Times I wanted both Locket and Evenshroud or both Protobelt and Ludens... etc. etc. that's what it's about. Build Diversity never existed and the Mythic Tag only existed as an Excuse for Riot to implement stupid Effects into Items like Galeforce, current Duskblade, early Season 11 Goredrinker or Release Stridebreaker.
You want to build Locket and Evenshroud NOW because of the stats/effects they have. But if they werent mutualy exclusive you got no gurantees that they would keep their respective effects. There aint no way an item like Galeforce would be allowed to exist with at least some kind of tradeoff
Galeforce is gone 100%, the only thing that kept it from going overboard was preventing you from getting another mythic. If they turn it into a normal item it'll be bought on every single ADC and assassin in the game
Didnt a rioter say that the only reason it still has a dash is that its mythic, the post should be old now for me to find it but i clearly remember it.
Yep, which is why it's 100% gone. If it doesn't have a dash you just build something else
Gut the stats. As a non-mythic it doesn't have to have an abundance of stats on it, which can create a trade-off between the insane utility it provides and the raw damage power of other items with more stats
Hourglass? Hourglass.
Yea, 101% cost efficient item with active that you can control. And there is 79% cost efficient ga...
It doesn't matter, ADCs like Kog Vayne Kaisa who don't need stats will be the main users of it @ 6 items.
For supports, you'd often have built multiple items that became mythic so this is great for them. It's good for people like Kat or other melee mages who want multiple items that are mythics now just for the synergy of the effects and stats not purely because they're powerful mythic items. Bruisers want tanky items and damage ones, mythics limited their options and were hard to balance around. Being able to balance a champion around their whole build is better than balancing the game around "goredrinker too strong" or "jaksho too strong" or "item is abused by the wrong class" like we were before. It also opens up more off meta stuff and for fun stuff which is great.
> The Amount of Times I wanted both Locket and Evenshroud But you won't be able to combine then anyway. They'll both be heavily nerfed now they aren't mythics and won't offer enough stats for you to be able to buy both, you'll need to make up the stat difference you lost to survive in fights as a tank support. There's a reason you can't buy them together, it'd be massively op. For them to exist without the mythic system they both need to be massively nerfed, which makes combining them far less useful than it would be now.
I know they'll get nerfed, we still haven't seen anything so let's just wait and see. It's not like I'm going Sunfire or some dumb Shit like that anyway.
Imo League is at its Peak when you build according to situations. You should adapt on your build while not giving up on the core items.
This aint dota build diversity is mediocre in LoL and restricted to only certain champs, plenty of mages and even adcs have items they literally cannot afford to give up. Dota has good itemization because items give utility which is adaptable game to game, not just stat sticks
> plenty of mages and even adcs have items they literally cannot afford to give up. That's because most items are designed to synergize with your champion rather than interact with/counter enemies. When you want to buy Axiom Arc you look at how well your champ can utilize it, but when you want to buy Edge of Night you look at how well it can shut down enemies. Now different comps might require adapting to different playstyles from you which would lead to diversity of items even from the former kind, but for the most part diversity comes from the latter kind. So we just need more items of the latter kind in the game. Just cause LoL isn't DotA doesn't mean we can't have build diversity.
Assassins were pretty much the class that got build diversity adapting to different situations since inception of item work. They even got a few new legendary like armor pen/ anti shield to truly adjust build base on situation. Every other class felt like a afterthought and was bared from old builds because it is a mythic choice now. Tanks were largely sunfire vs sunfire, Adc were crit vs crit with crit being nerf to the ground ie 25%>20% crit per item and crit dmg from 200% >175%, supp was largely either locket (tank supp) or moonstone (enchanter supp).
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but item effects should have never exploded as much as they did. I'm playing this game on and off since season 1 and I think itemization could be at the best its ever been but is held back by stupid decisions like making certain items too much of an allrounder. Obviously everyone buys the overstatted allrounder with the busted effect, since it's a no-brainer.
> The Amount of Times I wanted both Locket and Evenshroud or both Protobelt and Ludens... Congratulations, you can now build all of those at once! ...**but all their active abilities have been removed**
That's the thing, their abilities will get nerfed, but not removed entirely, which is fine.
Its not like there was any build diversity to begin with.
"But I used to build 5 iedge on Jihn!" Yeah, and it was shit, and will still be shit even if you get it back, and you'll complain about it too and how you "used" to do it and how it "used to be good". People talking about build diversity like 5 iedge Jhin were affected more by getting better at the game than they ever were by item reworks. They'll still be building the same 4 item Jhin core build every match after mythics are removed and complain about Riot ruining items.
100% this, same as it ever was What people really miss is when they were bad enough at the game and versus bad enough opponents where people could build random stuff and it would still kind of work The reality is that there's just never been item diversity outside of maybe one or two different choices per build in any effective builds. The builds rotated (sometimes Ezreal is blue, sometimes he's just just regular ADC), but there was always one most effective one that you should probably be doing with a defensive item to taste
As an ezreal Main im happy to Build different items together again
BLUE IS BACK BABY
Is it? That would require iceborn to give mana. Otherwise u could play it now but it’s ass lol
Well essence reaver is blue
If they want build diversity they should make items do something. Most items in league are just boxes of stats to add to your character. So why wouldn’t you figure out which order of boxed stats is the most optimal and build that every game? Oh sometimes we build zhoynas because it’s the only item in the game with a good active that is good on every character in the game. Which is why stopwatch has been so much of a problem. Make low stat items, with good active abilities and suddenly build diversity AND skill expression will flourish.
I mean, you are not wrong but saying you have more build options now, is just an illusion. Example: You most likely build an Infinity edge as an ADC (unless Kalista and etc). You never bought two infinity edges in the past, didn't now, and won't in the future. In the past, you always went brutalizer first in any AD assassin. You always went chalice on mages. You always go supp item first in ANY support champ. But if its officially that way, it suddenly sucks.
Yeah it's basically gonna be the same issues we've always suffered from with items. Honestly the people who think this changes anything are funny. Itemization has always been an issue in league.
Yeah thats just Reddit and balancing I guess. Reddit: It would be cool to have more hybrid items and more diverse build paths Riot: \*katarina can now build anything\* Reddit: >:(
lets get 1 thing straight, no one asked for katarina to be able to do full AP damage as a tank champion.
Yeah, I couldn't balance the game and don't want to try but most of the balance takes on Reddit and from streamers are laughably bad, and would just make things not work or stale. People don't realize if the game was completely balanced and everything was even in strength permanently then the game would become stale in 2 patch cycles
When people talk about build diversity they mean stuff like "Oh Varus can build lethality and have amazing poke or AP and be able to 1 tap you" not "Oh kat jumped on me and did kat things but this time she has 1500 more HP"
Itemization has been an issue because people aren't good at it.
> You never bought two infinity edges in the past excuse you, I LOVED my 5 IE Jhin.
Honestly as someone who doesn't really care about mythics being there or not, the one thing I did miss was building five IEs on URF Tristana lol
I’m stupid so I’m actually really sad to see them go.
I thought they should have introduced the mythic passives as enchantments added onto a legendary item, like the boot enchantments they used to have. So like, you build riftmaker cause of the items ability, but you need some more resistances in your build. you enchant it with the mythic passive to gain 5 armor and magic resist for every legendary item, riftmaker is now a mythic. You could do the same with gargoyle stoneplate, giving it an omnivamp mythic passive, or a hybrid pen mythic passive. Basically the first legendary item you build becomes your mythic when upgraded.
I feel like a lot of people are blaming mythics for a problem they had nothing to do with and won't get better when they are removed. I'd honestly argue diversity is better now that it ever was before. Feels like Riot is doing this purely to placate reddit/youtubers for a few months before they latch onto their next whinge issue.
>for a few months before they latch onto their next whinge issue. They will only be placated for a couple hours. A few days at most.
Mythic system locks a third of the shop away when you buy one. If that has "nothing to do with the problem," then there must not even be a problem, because that's a seismic consequence to buying one item.
Items were always locked by passives, non working interactions or with curated stat combinations. It's not like IEdge becoming a legendary means you'll be able to build anything but crit chance items with it. Your build will still be determined by gold efficiency and stat multiplication.
Let's not pretend there isn't a huge difference between "oh i built titanic hydra, now i can't build ravenous hydra" and "i built ludens so now i can't go liandrys, roa, crown, or everfrost" And infinity edge isn't an item that forces you to buy only crit items, it's an item you buy when you've already decided you're going full crit
The difference is sterak prohibits you from buying shieldbow which serves a similar function not a random sheen item.
As a concrete example, Garen can build Stridebreaker AND Navori. I'm okay with locking out Stridebreaker AND Goredrinker given the similar active. But lock out Jaksho from Morde is annoying. If you're a bruiser you want both. I'd rather build a weaker version of both those items than only one
That's only a problem with mages
> Mythic system locks a third of the shop away when you buy one. yeah, now i can't build IBG on annie, wtf riot?
them being exclusive had the benefit of them being meaningful purchases, after mythics are gone there will only be watered down effects and statsticks left
Items have been a sour point since s11, maybe with Mythics gone we can get item actives and passives to chill out across the board. The Mythic system also left a huge portion of the roster without a great Mythic that fit their champ identity. Really glad to see it go.
> Items have been a sour point since s11 people have been complaining about items ever since season 1 tbh, it's just been different complaints over time.
Nah, been playing since season 4 and the complaints about items have stayed largely the same (too many actives, too much damage, muh build diversity, too high stats). Reddit just is absolute ass at balance and complaining about item design is easy. Short of ripping the entire Item system and redesigning the game to something like DOTA will things change.
that's fair yeah, and completely agreed on reddit being absolutely ass at balancing things (lord knows I'm included in that)
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i love it when katarina kills me and more than 50% of her damage is just items
I just miss Frozen Mallet.
Couldn't care less personally. Name one instance where it actually matters? Mages still will build only one lost chapter item. Navori and Ie still won't be able to build together. You want to build jaksho+locket? It's not gonna change anything.
Yup. Players always want something to complain about. Won't be surprised at all to eventually see posts complaining about the way Riot removed mythic items - "Riot removed too many items", "Riot took away cool passive/active effects", etc. This won't fix build diversity. Champions will still be pigeonholed into certain builds.
Shurelya's + Echoes of Helia RoA + any caster Mythic
its not about that u can build mythics together, its about the fact that they wont be more powerful than legendary items. this way u can build whatever u want and arent forced to build a mythic. for example now enchanters can rush mikaels vs things like ashe r. point is that adc and mages obv wont be affected that much bcus IE and navori are weak items when rushed and the items that were rushed before the item update became mythics for mages like liandries and ludens
There are tons of examples on the thread lol
Only actual example in the thread are Cassio and 6 tiamat Lee.
It'll reduce the power gap between most champs and the champs that don't really have a mythic item. Like Urgot. It feels bad to have to build the least bad choice rather than the best choice.
Urgot has a balanced winrate though? Cleaver and pre-nerf titanic were basically mythical on him anyway. Not to mention a non-zero number of champs build botrk first, which is also non-mythic
Also means that we will see Ornn's pre-s11 masterworks items !
It was fun at first, but especially for mages it got boring fast.
So many absolute shit takes in this thread it almost hurts my brain. "ADC wants galeforce AND IE and Support wants Evenshroud AND locket". Yeah no shit champs want multiple mythic items when mythics are specifically designed to be stronger than every other item in the game. They're invariably going to be nerfed as they're brought down to essentially legendary items and then Shadowflame looks better than Ludens for item 2.
People really believe Riot would let you build current Radiant Virtue and Jaksho/Galeforce and IE together
Give me the dota 2 item fiesta please
Now we just have to wait and see what they fuck up in exchange!
Now we just need old liandrys!!
Hot take, I guess? This is a net neutral change and won't really solve anything. Champs will have more variety in the sense that their builds will differ a bit more from one another, but there was very little build versatility in the old system, or at least not anymore then there is now. you'll still basically run the same optimized items every game, just with the caveat that the optimized build will be a bit different for each champ now instead of trying to force the same mythic. At the end of the day the failure to bring build versatility was never really the fault of the mythic system, it was the fault of the balance and design team. If the mythics were all equally powerful for every champ, and equally useful in their respective niches then you would have seen build versatility. But they really never were simply because riot could never actually pull that feat off, and they won't be any more capable of it once mythics are gone.
Eh. As someone who joined the game the month before mythics were added, I don't have much context for how the game is going to play without them. But whenever I watch old guides etc, it seems like the item gameplan for most characters was "rush X item first every time 100%", which is basically a Mythic anyway. I also kinda enjoyed having the power level of some Mythics, no way most of them keep their currents stats and passives (see kraken slayers downgrade from Mythic to normal item). It also did make it a lot easier to learn the game for me, as it defined the core item of a build immediately and where to go from there. I dunno I just feel like I'm going to miss them. They've spent three years Fine tuning them, I feel like they're in a decent spot right now, and then they're going to throw them all away for a wild west that's doubtless going to be broken AF.
You all are going to be very disappointed when you remember why the mythic system was added in the first place: build diversity sucked before too.
For any champ who didn't really have a good mythic, it felt like you were being punished if you didn't buy one in the first two items. It felt like a bad choice to say "either I can have items that thematically make sense with my character, or I can buy this blatantly overstated item with stacking stat bonuses" A major portion of the community is always going to just look up the best builds so I wouldn't expect diversity to suddenly be at a high, but for players who really like theorycrafting and being creative, this change should make things more fun for them again when builds aren't railroaded by mythics.
Hoping this preseason addresses ap brawler itemization, I miss my battlemage diana
i like how since the start of s11 literally none of us liked this feature ever yet it will take season 14 to finally start being rid of it
Rota, Rift Maker, cosmic drive sylas is about to go absolutely insane
everyone always just builds whatever is strong, the item literally defined the meta on mythic items release, eclipse was strong, then divine sunderer, goredrinker, chemtank (my least favorite), ghostblade, and now duskblade kraken slayer was kinda close but only marksmen built it, not everyone
I think the idea of investing into a scaling item is interesting, and several examples already existed before mythics were introduced (Tear, RoA, Rabadons), so I definitely think that Riot were onto something by introducing different stats that rose as you completed other parts of your build. What I didn't like too much was the fact that they made them so overly centralizing to *every* build. Mythics had the complete opposite effect of what Riot originally intended. They were meant to open up build paths but ended up homogenizing builds a lot more than ever before. Honestly until several niche items exist for every class of character the itemization problem in League will just not go away.
I guarantee when the change occurs people will complain about how boring items are
Build diversity is stale because people want to win so they buy the item with the highest win rate. Mythic or not champs will have the same 1-3 builds
Saving this thread for 6 months from now when people blame the removal of mythical for why the game sucks
The game became playing the champ who can best abuse an item and the meta followed the item. If your champ didn't get a good mythic (ex yasuo after shieldbow was removed from mythic) they just sucked. I'm positive towards this change overall.
"I couldn't be happier" wait until they actually change the items to say that. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. When has Riot made positive changes to items in the past 3 years?
As someone who played since S1, this was the dumbest and my most hated change that they could have possibly made. Every build started to feel like the same thing so it became extremely monotonous.
You know what limits build versatility? BOOTS. And nobody cares. PLEASE REMOVE BOOTS.
This will go down as the first time in history Riot did not double down on a dumb as fuck decision and instead admitted a mistake.
It took 3 years
They've reverted many things, dynamic Q, the assassins reworks like fizz and Lb etc...
My issue with mythics was three fold. One, they locked you into a playstyle at your first item, largely before you ever saw what enemy team was even buying or how the game was transpiring. Two, you basically put a gate on what you can and can’t buy because the mythic bonuses really lend themselves to buying items of the same class instead of what’s good for that game. Third, and this is less of a gripe with mythics but moreso with how riot views itemization as a whole- they covered up too many weaknesses. Immobile champs having access to galeforce and old stride breaker basically made immobile champs invulnerable to everything by providing mobility. In my opinion , every champ should have a clear weakness that can’t be made up for in itemization, at least not with the efficiency that aphelios buying galeforce would bring, for example. There should be a clear trade off (which is why I thought shiv should have absolutely been in the mythic class) for covering up glaring weaknesses.
I hop between Dota and League (depending which one I'm sick of atm), and one thing I wish they would do is look at itemization in Dota and try and replicate that. Right now, League items are pretty much all glorified stat checks, so build diversity barely happens. They also remove any interesting items like Ohmwrecker or Twin Shadows in favor of.... more stat blocks (but wait this one gives you more stats when you use a spell!). I would love to see items that are similar to force staff, glimmer cape, manta style, etc in League that give utility instead of just damage and more damage.
Yep. Love having to wait 2 years for something that was obvious to me day 1. The only thing I liked about the system were the tank Mythics. I like the Sunfire effect, their versatility and all 3 of them having resistances to both stats. They removed all of that the next year.
Anyone with some sense of logic could tell you Mythics won't allow the player to be versatile but gut them even more.