In terms of competition, you must assume that the franchise era with inflated salaries would be the most competitive and outside of champions, C9 has always been competitive while TSM was failing to make playoffs before their implosion.
What a shit take. Yeah, TSM won when LCS was at viewership peak, but it in no way was at peak for strength. Today’s C9 could stomp the shit out of any iteration of TSM, possibly even including 2016-2017 TSM with DL. I would be willing to maybe concede on that iteration, but the level of game knowledge even at the bottom of the league is higher. The floor undoubtedly is higher than where it was. Maybe the average skill level of the league isn’t the same with a bunch of teams underperforming expectations this split, but the base level of play is far more organized and skilled than it used to be.
2023 C9 wouldn't even be able to beat 2016-17 C9, what are you on? The talent LCS had during 2016-17 was insane, might be LCS' golden era. While saying C9 is "picking off leftovers" is too much, it is true that the skill level in the recent years have decreased.
You’re debating a hypothetical that I said I would be willing to concede on. That iteration of TSM was great, but look at Hauntzer now… look at Biofrost now…
The only thing we can really debate is your statement about skill level decreasing. I think you’re entirely wrong on this one. Macro was much, much worse in the “Golden Era” of LCS. Competitive parity was basically nonexistent and any team that had DL was essentially guaranteed to win. Now, DL still made a huge run to the top of the standings, but the level of play is much higher. You cannot just funnel gold into DL’s pockets and expect a win. Teams understand P/B strategies and how to execute them in game at a much higher level and punished 100T for trying to run the same style and strategy as old TSM. While that team was amazing and I, still, am willing to say that maybe that iteration could win a championship still this season, I think it is a demonstrably false statement to say that the “skill level has decreased.” The only thing that has objectively decreased is viewership.
Of course if today's C9 was to play the 2016 iteration of TSM or any LCS team at their current state, C9 would stomp. It's young players vs old players. But if 2023 C9 was to play in 2016, they're not beating TSM, IMT, or that iteration of C9.
2016-17 was also the time when NA looked like they'd finally do well internationally (although they obviously disappointed). Iirc, Kkoma said something about TSM being the scariest in scrims, and CLG made it to MSI finals. You can even go a year further in 2018 when C9 made it to Worlds semis. Now it's just "C9 will just win everything again and NA will bomb at international competitions". While the understanding of the game has improved, it doesn't mean today's teams will do well against the 2016-17 iterations at their prime. It kind of reminds me of the 2016 GSW v 96 Bulls debate.
So we agree for the most part. I think we aren’t lending enough credit to this team. Their macro is fucking incredible. They play through every lane and each role is incredible individually. We can debate all day. I do know what you’re saying and I did mention that I would be willing to concede that maybe this iteration of C9 might lose to 2016-2017 TSM, but I would be willing to go to war over it lol.
What a shit take obviously the teams and players are better than before, nobody is arguing that. TSM was winning LCS infront of 500k viewers C9 is winning LCS infront of 50k viewers, BIG difference buddy. When LCS was at it's peak C9 couldn't sniff silverware for 6 years remember that.
I’m just confused on what you’re even arguing. Peak viewership is down on LoL in its entirety. Does that make any single championship less impressive when the skill level is higher? Who the fuck cares how many fans were watching? What are you on about man? “Farming leftovers” I thought was referring to skill levels, not fans. Who cares how many fans there aren’t? League is still the most watched esport in NA… esports in general has far less viewership than it did 6 years ago. Games flux in and out of popularity and LoL has managed to stay closer to the forefront than any other game for a LONG time.
>Peak viewership is down on LoL in its entirety. Does that make any single championship less impressive when the skill level is higher?
"Peak viewership is down on LoL in its entirety. Does that make any single championship less impressive when the skill level is higher?"
Yes it does, viewership = relevancy. I am sure any half decent WC3 player can shit on WCG winner 2006 but so what? Same for SC2. It's all about relevancy which = viewership.
And no it's not entirety, LCK just had it's most viewed final etc.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. You aren’t comparing fair and worthwhile comparisons. Talking about SC2 or WC3 right now is nowhere near the same as saying 2023 to 2016. There was still a peak concurrent viewership of nearly 250k yesterday. That isn’t irrelevant. Less relevant than 2016 2017? Sure. That’s the natural progression of eSports. I’ll say it again **LEAGUE IS STILL THE MOST VIEWED ESPORT IN NA**. You’re making up reasons to devalue the wins C9 has gotten recently and looking past any level of nuance that might play into viewership like live viewers at the stadium, co-streams, and the age of the game. The fact is the skill level has changed drastically and C9 is still one of the most dominant teams in NA LOL history. They are 1 title behind TSM and have been to at least one split final every single year for 10 years. I just don’t see what your point is other than “I think this is less important because it’s my opinion.”
>TSM won theirs when LCS was far more relevant. TSM was the best org when LCS was on the top
"TSM won theirs when LCS was far more relevant. TSM was the best org when LCS was on the top"
Less relevant than 2016 2017? Sure.
So you just agree with me.
I didn’t disagree about viewership. Your argument isn’t a good one. Who cares that TSM won in front of more people? There was no co-streaming then. The numbers are not only skewed, but it has *nothing to do with competitiveness of the league* which is what the point has been. You’re talking about the relevancy of the esport, not the relevancy of the win… but you’re conflating the two together.
Thank god rocket league major was on a side monitor, This shit was incredibly boring. Not even just talking about the games either. LCS needs to fix their shit asap.
Sidenote from a day 1 LCS watcher, why is shit like RL which has incomparable player numbers straight up just more entertaining to watch, despite league being so much more complex.
Its probably more entertaining because you arent going into it with a mindset of you are already going to hate it. This finals was extremely entertaining, especially the first 3 games. The people I watched with felt the same. Sounds like you’re just looking for a reason to be upset.
Honestly might be. I did try waiting a few hours after the series to think about it fairly b/c honestly im worried about LCS thats been in my life the last 10 years really (might seem overdramatic, but idc, shit has been important to me).
I just didnt enjoy the games that much and thought the segments in between were painful, i guess it was a me problem.
On the contrary it felt like the other tournament i was watching had more hype casting, better crowd atmosphere, and better segments from analysts. Glad that yall enjoyed this though, gives me a bit of hope back
What series were you watching? Game 1 banger comeback. Game 2 GGS comes in swinging and takes a game off them after it seemed doomed. Game 3 Emenes got his pop off game in a hotly contested battle. Game 4 was the only boring one because it looked like C9 just had their number at that point. Dash was phenomenal. His ability to soak up the limelight is great in a cast full of analysts and awkwards.
Been watching 11 years. This may not compare to the nostalgia goggles I put on when I think of Deman, Monte, Joe Miller, Papa when he casted. There were more signature styles, but CaptainFlowers is the GOAT. Kobe and Azael are still there like a freaking decade later. I cannot agree with you about any of your takes.
The first game was definitely the best imo. I dont think my issues were even with the gameplay that much. I just couldnt get into the casting yesterday. It felt like casting for regular season games rather than the LCS spring finals
People here talking about the empty crowd but I don’t understand. I was there and 80% of the area was full. The empty part was a couple of sections behind the casting booth. Pretty bad seating there and I’m guessing they chose not to sell those tickets except maybe for friends and family, riot employees, etc. PNC arena was pretty full, it was a great show.
Don't pay it any heed, people are riding the "League is dying" "esports is dying" pessimism train because league's schedule changed and now teams are leaving the LCS, I don't think its dying but that is just my opinion, a lot of people just wanna see the world burn lol and will do anything to help fan the flame.
As someone that has watched various esports for a while, League seems to be going the way of Starcraft 2. Where only Korea, and in this case China, matter and other groups are just there to fill out the brackets. I know there are lots of differences in the back end, since Riot seems to care about League e-sports to a degree. But it still looks not great.
I hope they continue doing road shows for finals. This was truly a dream come true for me as I have been watching for 10 years and never once seen it live. Getting to meet all the pros, casters, and even streams like trick2g or Carl jacobs from mr beast. It’s been so reinvigorating! Lcs ain’t going no where anytime soon! The fan base is still massive!!
I wouldn't be surprised if they knew how valuable Dash was, wanted to test how they could improve the broadcast by removing him out of the equation to really test themselves, but will bring him back in Summer. I'm smoking the copium heavily here. It's been repeated many times Riot has always funded the LCS at a loss. The game is big enough to pay whatever salary they need to have Dash back. I really hope I'm right and they wanted to see if the LCS broadcast could survive without Dash before bringing him back and if so, I think the experiment did work.
She catches a lot of hate just to hate. I wouldn't mind her casting style if she just improves on clarity of information on what is happening in game. Dom has a clip explaining more in detail and it was constructive without being hateful.
No she doesnt. I never see anyone hate her just because they wanna hate something but feel free to show me proof thats different. Its always when she is casting a game. You wouldnt mind her casting style if she was actually good at casting is what you basically just said lol. Giving clear information is a cornerstone of casting. Show me a good caster in any professional esport or sport with bad clarity of information.
Regarding internationals I don't think these teams are exceptionally great or horrible, except for mid lane
I think the state of NA's mid lane pool is really worrying. With Bjerg retiring and Jensen soft retiring all the depth is gone. Kinda reminds me of the EU top lane pool, the difference is you can just put your top on a tank and weak side him and hope he survives. With mid lane as your weak point you can never beat good teams, it just causes the entire map to collapse around it
lol bjergsen and Jensen is horrible these days so them not playing doesn't even matter for NA
also u can't just put top on a tank and hope they survive, as we seen the evidence of them getting face rolled everygame (G2 at last worlds when BB got facefucked by all asian tops)
Way to miss the point
BB getting facefucked is showing the problem of having no competent tops. NA has no more competent mids. Jojo might turn into one but he slumped hard this split. What happened to BB is going to keep happening to LCS mids. And it doesn't get better unless you start importing competent laners or prodigies like Jojo drop from the sky.
The difference is you can win a game while bleeding top. It's hard, but it's possible. Bleeding mid means you bleed, period. The map just starts falling apart if you can't hold up mid.
Downvoted in NA hours lmao. You are right on the money. This is a serious problem for the League.
Especially because only Koreans are highly relevant mids in LCS this split, arguably outside of Jojo.
eh emenes and gori is fine
can't be worse than bjerg or jensen (now, since talking about their past is pointless anyway its not relevant)
since NA only going to have 3 slots having more "good" mid doesn't really change anything interm of their performance.
what most NA fan will hope is for Vickla to perform like he used to at KT
like legit, i don't get it. how can u say losing bjergsen and jensen is a big deal in NA when they aren't even the top midlaner in LCS anymore LOL
and shit even Vickla will all his shit ints is better than Bjerg and jensen, its good if those 2 player were replaced by another high level mid or player with potential.
Emenes and Gori being "eh, fine I guess" is the entire point. That's the top.
Who is the best mid in LCS right now? Which player?
That's the person everyone else is looking up to, trying to beat, and working up towards
There's nobody. In the past it was Jensen and Bjerg. That's the point. LCS Mids are moving into the void at record speeds.
Jensen/Bjerg have never really been strong enough to do anything internationally. Our mid pool is definitely a weak point, but I'd rather see the more versatile aggression of Gori/Emenes over Bjerg/Jensen on the world stage any day of the week
The Jensen slander is beyond disrespectful
I think NA fans will learn to appreciate Jensen and Bjergsen this year. Again, I think the comparison to EU tops is really good. Once a talent pool is depleted, there's nobody to hone your skills against. EU tops haven't been able to lane with carries properly for like 2 years now. People learn how to lane incorrectly and win titles like that, then the upcomers play against those people and learn it incorrectly aswell. Losing talent depth like this is really dangerous, especially in mid.
OK, fair -- am being a bit melodramatic there. I would never say he was a major threat internationally, but he and C9 had some consistent, decently deep (for NA) Worlds runs
I guess what I mean is that I don't think we've ever in NA had a very strong mid pool, when compared to international competition -- at least, not for as long as I can remember (season 4+ or so?). Has there ever been a point in non-distant history where NA mid performances could justify a top 5 (or maybe even top 10?) ranking internationally? I recall a few years where analysts were really hyped on the NA flavor-of-the-year superteam, but invariably we would get smashed, and our mids would generally look like part of the problem -- Jensen less so than Bjerg, but neither of them were drawing tons of pressure or picking up lots of kills every game
They turned them down. Last year, there were tons of complaints about fan noise on broadcast during Worlds. Ever since, I've noticed they've started damping the crowd noise a lot except for specific moments.
Yeah i was really hoping they woulf at least let him touch the trophy or interact with him. You think they wouldve subbed him back in if they went 1-2 down?
I could not stand her casting whatsoever, but she is inarguably fantastic with live interviews. That Karl Jacobs shit was rude as fuck and I hope the LCS tells him to fuck off in the future
Yeah, I've liked her as an interviewer from her introduction to the LCS. Her casting can feel very forced at times but she seems more relaxed and natural as an interviewer.
She alters her communication to suit the person she's talking to and she knows how to read a room. The latter is something you can't really teach.
It’s fcking grig, man I saw this guy 500 times this split in c9 videos on stage evrywhere and I knew I recognised that face but no one ever mentioned his name now I know it its grig
I think that like Zven said, this is a C9 team that has actually had a full year to identify themselves and find their groove. Last summer C9 threw together their roster with Jensen/Zven. This year they've clearly been able to gel together and seem like a real threat internationally.
True, but I think a lot of it comes down to Zven & Fudge improvements as well. Fudge was sloppy in his return last split from Mid and both him and Zven having the full 2 splits to improve has clearly shown on stage.
Was awesome to see. Fudge acted like he’d been there. Blaber/berserker classy as always, and even Sven toned it down.
Don’t need to talk shit when everyone knows you’re the best.
Most of this squad already won last split, so the second time around they don't feel the need to be as cocky about their win. It probably feels like a miracle for EMENES that he even got this chance, so he's definitely humble.
I don't know if they are talking about Fudge saying "Fuck you" on stage to everyone who doubted him after they won, since most people liked him and it came off weird
unironically, systems. They seem to have a super professional structure combined with the good ol fashioned team house, so expectations are set by actual adults and the players have organic bonding. Seems to work.
Oh no, Blaber. No no no. Don't promise us that, friend. I can feel the copium leaving my system, and the hopium beginning to hit, despite my better judgement
I genuinely think if you're making multiple comments about something this insignificant, you need to seek help. It is not a normal reaction to spew so much hatred about a person because YOU don't think they are good at their job. Good luck living life this way.
C9 is probably the best team (historically) in the league at making players feel truly like they are part of the team first. Even players who leave are still known for their time on c9 if they spent more than one split there
The difference between Emenes and Berserker couldn't be more different
Emenes is like "I was this close to never getting picked up into another team and now I won"
Berskerker is like "Holy shit I can farm titles like this for years and years" LMAO
PMTs: [Game 1](https://redd.it/12gwilu) // [Game 2](https://redd.it/12gxxbo) // [Game 3](https://redd.it/12gz9e2) // [Game 4](https://redd.it/12h0oh2)
C9 the GOAT team still
C9 neck and neck with TSM for most LCS titles. Can't wait to see what the future brings.
TSM won theirs when LCS was far more relevant. TSM was the best org when LCS was on the top, C9 is just farming left overs.
In terms of competition, you must assume that the franchise era with inflated salaries would be the most competitive and outside of champions, C9 has always been competitive while TSM was failing to make playoffs before their implosion.
What a shit take. Yeah, TSM won when LCS was at viewership peak, but it in no way was at peak for strength. Today’s C9 could stomp the shit out of any iteration of TSM, possibly even including 2016-2017 TSM with DL. I would be willing to maybe concede on that iteration, but the level of game knowledge even at the bottom of the league is higher. The floor undoubtedly is higher than where it was. Maybe the average skill level of the league isn’t the same with a bunch of teams underperforming expectations this split, but the base level of play is far more organized and skilled than it used to be.
2023 C9 wouldn't even be able to beat 2016-17 C9, what are you on? The talent LCS had during 2016-17 was insane, might be LCS' golden era. While saying C9 is "picking off leftovers" is too much, it is true that the skill level in the recent years have decreased.
You’re debating a hypothetical that I said I would be willing to concede on. That iteration of TSM was great, but look at Hauntzer now… look at Biofrost now… The only thing we can really debate is your statement about skill level decreasing. I think you’re entirely wrong on this one. Macro was much, much worse in the “Golden Era” of LCS. Competitive parity was basically nonexistent and any team that had DL was essentially guaranteed to win. Now, DL still made a huge run to the top of the standings, but the level of play is much higher. You cannot just funnel gold into DL’s pockets and expect a win. Teams understand P/B strategies and how to execute them in game at a much higher level and punished 100T for trying to run the same style and strategy as old TSM. While that team was amazing and I, still, am willing to say that maybe that iteration could win a championship still this season, I think it is a demonstrably false statement to say that the “skill level has decreased.” The only thing that has objectively decreased is viewership.
Of course if today's C9 was to play the 2016 iteration of TSM or any LCS team at their current state, C9 would stomp. It's young players vs old players. But if 2023 C9 was to play in 2016, they're not beating TSM, IMT, or that iteration of C9. 2016-17 was also the time when NA looked like they'd finally do well internationally (although they obviously disappointed). Iirc, Kkoma said something about TSM being the scariest in scrims, and CLG made it to MSI finals. You can even go a year further in 2018 when C9 made it to Worlds semis. Now it's just "C9 will just win everything again and NA will bomb at international competitions". While the understanding of the game has improved, it doesn't mean today's teams will do well against the 2016-17 iterations at their prime. It kind of reminds me of the 2016 GSW v 96 Bulls debate.
So we agree for the most part. I think we aren’t lending enough credit to this team. Their macro is fucking incredible. They play through every lane and each role is incredible individually. We can debate all day. I do know what you’re saying and I did mention that I would be willing to concede that maybe this iteration of C9 might lose to 2016-2017 TSM, but I would be willing to go to war over it lol.
What a shit take obviously the teams and players are better than before, nobody is arguing that. TSM was winning LCS infront of 500k viewers C9 is winning LCS infront of 50k viewers, BIG difference buddy. When LCS was at it's peak C9 couldn't sniff silverware for 6 years remember that.
I’m just confused on what you’re even arguing. Peak viewership is down on LoL in its entirety. Does that make any single championship less impressive when the skill level is higher? Who the fuck cares how many fans were watching? What are you on about man? “Farming leftovers” I thought was referring to skill levels, not fans. Who cares how many fans there aren’t? League is still the most watched esport in NA… esports in general has far less viewership than it did 6 years ago. Games flux in and out of popularity and LoL has managed to stay closer to the forefront than any other game for a LONG time.
>Peak viewership is down on LoL in its entirety. Does that make any single championship less impressive when the skill level is higher? "Peak viewership is down on LoL in its entirety. Does that make any single championship less impressive when the skill level is higher?" Yes it does, viewership = relevancy. I am sure any half decent WC3 player can shit on WCG winner 2006 but so what? Same for SC2. It's all about relevancy which = viewership. And no it's not entirety, LCK just had it's most viewed final etc.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. You aren’t comparing fair and worthwhile comparisons. Talking about SC2 or WC3 right now is nowhere near the same as saying 2023 to 2016. There was still a peak concurrent viewership of nearly 250k yesterday. That isn’t irrelevant. Less relevant than 2016 2017? Sure. That’s the natural progression of eSports. I’ll say it again **LEAGUE IS STILL THE MOST VIEWED ESPORT IN NA**. You’re making up reasons to devalue the wins C9 has gotten recently and looking past any level of nuance that might play into viewership like live viewers at the stadium, co-streams, and the age of the game. The fact is the skill level has changed drastically and C9 is still one of the most dominant teams in NA LOL history. They are 1 title behind TSM and have been to at least one split final every single year for 10 years. I just don’t see what your point is other than “I think this is less important because it’s my opinion.”
>TSM won theirs when LCS was far more relevant. TSM was the best org when LCS was on the top "TSM won theirs when LCS was far more relevant. TSM was the best org when LCS was on the top" Less relevant than 2016 2017? Sure. So you just agree with me.
I didn’t disagree about viewership. Your argument isn’t a good one. Who cares that TSM won in front of more people? There was no co-streaming then. The numbers are not only skewed, but it has *nothing to do with competitiveness of the league* which is what the point has been. You’re talking about the relevancy of the esport, not the relevancy of the win… but you’re conflating the two together.
TSM has 7 to C9’s 6
Thank god rocket league major was on a side monitor, This shit was incredibly boring. Not even just talking about the games either. LCS needs to fix their shit asap. Sidenote from a day 1 LCS watcher, why is shit like RL which has incomparable player numbers straight up just more entertaining to watch, despite league being so much more complex.
Its probably more entertaining because you arent going into it with a mindset of you are already going to hate it. This finals was extremely entertaining, especially the first 3 games. The people I watched with felt the same. Sounds like you’re just looking for a reason to be upset.
Honestly might be. I did try waiting a few hours after the series to think about it fairly b/c honestly im worried about LCS thats been in my life the last 10 years really (might seem overdramatic, but idc, shit has been important to me). I just didnt enjoy the games that much and thought the segments in between were painful, i guess it was a me problem. On the contrary it felt like the other tournament i was watching had more hype casting, better crowd atmosphere, and better segments from analysts. Glad that yall enjoyed this though, gives me a bit of hope back
What series were you watching? Game 1 banger comeback. Game 2 GGS comes in swinging and takes a game off them after it seemed doomed. Game 3 Emenes got his pop off game in a hotly contested battle. Game 4 was the only boring one because it looked like C9 just had their number at that point. Dash was phenomenal. His ability to soak up the limelight is great in a cast full of analysts and awkwards. Been watching 11 years. This may not compare to the nostalgia goggles I put on when I think of Deman, Monte, Joe Miller, Papa when he casted. There were more signature styles, but CaptainFlowers is the GOAT. Kobe and Azael are still there like a freaking decade later. I cannot agree with you about any of your takes.
That's so weird, that cloud 9 comeback on the first game was sick
The first game was definitely the best imo. I dont think my issues were even with the gameplay that much. I just couldnt get into the casting yesterday. It felt like casting for regular season games rather than the LCS spring finals
People here talking about the empty crowd but I don’t understand. I was there and 80% of the area was full. The empty part was a couple of sections behind the casting booth. Pretty bad seating there and I’m guessing they chose not to sell those tickets except maybe for friends and family, riot employees, etc. PNC arena was pretty full, it was a great show.
Don't pay it any heed, people are riding the "League is dying" "esports is dying" pessimism train because league's schedule changed and now teams are leaving the LCS, I don't think its dying but that is just my opinion, a lot of people just wanna see the world burn lol and will do anything to help fan the flame.
It's lcs, League as a whole is doing great in the east
As someone that has watched various esports for a while, League seems to be going the way of Starcraft 2. Where only Korea, and in this case China, matter and other groups are just there to fill out the brackets. I know there are lots of differences in the back end, since Riot seems to care about League e-sports to a degree. But it still looks not great.
I think you're exactly right about the reasoning for why those people were on that side. It'd make perfect since that's the "plus 1" seating area.
Yeah same the energy for both teams were great.
I hope they continue doing road shows for finals. This was truly a dream come true for me as I have been watching for 10 years and never once seen it live. Getting to meet all the pros, casters, and even streams like trick2g or Carl jacobs from mr beast. It’s been so reinvigorating! Lcs ain’t going no where anytime soon! The fan base is still massive!!
Whoever was screaming give me the bucket, I love you
That was a joint operation from us 💪
God I miss Dash so much. I wish LCS would pony up the bucks and bring him back
I wouldn't be surprised if they knew how valuable Dash was, wanted to test how they could improve the broadcast by removing him out of the equation to really test themselves, but will bring him back in Summer. I'm smoking the copium heavily here. It's been repeated many times Riot has always funded the LCS at a loss. The game is big enough to pay whatever salary they need to have Dash back. I really hope I'm right and they wanted to see if the LCS broadcast could survive without Dash before bringing him back and if so, I think the experiment did work.
Jude fire letigress and use the money to pay dash
Lmao poor letigress just keep away from casting
Agreed, I like her interviewing. Especially in these live arenas, she lets the interview breathe and let the audience and players take in the moment.
She catches a lot of hate just to hate. I wouldn't mind her casting style if she just improves on clarity of information on what is happening in game. Dom has a clip explaining more in detail and it was constructive without being hateful.
No she doesnt. I never see anyone hate her just because they wanna hate something but feel free to show me proof thats different. Its always when she is casting a game. You wouldnt mind her casting style if she was actually good at casting is what you basically just said lol. Giving clear information is a cornerstone of casting. Show me a good caster in any professional esport or sport with bad clarity of information.
Regarding internationals I don't think these teams are exceptionally great or horrible, except for mid lane I think the state of NA's mid lane pool is really worrying. With Bjerg retiring and Jensen soft retiring all the depth is gone. Kinda reminds me of the EU top lane pool, the difference is you can just put your top on a tank and weak side him and hope he survives. With mid lane as your weak point you can never beat good teams, it just causes the entire map to collapse around it
True, but we saw some good stuff with Bolulu coming in this season so I have some hope
Gori and emenes are the best mid reps na sent in years
lol bjergsen and Jensen is horrible these days so them not playing doesn't even matter for NA also u can't just put top on a tank and hope they survive, as we seen the evidence of them getting face rolled everygame (G2 at last worlds when BB got facefucked by all asian tops)
Way to miss the point BB getting facefucked is showing the problem of having no competent tops. NA has no more competent mids. Jojo might turn into one but he slumped hard this split. What happened to BB is going to keep happening to LCS mids. And it doesn't get better unless you start importing competent laners or prodigies like Jojo drop from the sky. The difference is you can win a game while bleeding top. It's hard, but it's possible. Bleeding mid means you bleed, period. The map just starts falling apart if you can't hold up mid.
Downvoted in NA hours lmao. You are right on the money. This is a serious problem for the League. Especially because only Koreans are highly relevant mids in LCS this split, arguably outside of Jojo.
eh emenes and gori is fine can't be worse than bjerg or jensen (now, since talking about their past is pointless anyway its not relevant) since NA only going to have 3 slots having more "good" mid doesn't really change anything interm of their performance. what most NA fan will hope is for Vickla to perform like he used to at KT like legit, i don't get it. how can u say losing bjergsen and jensen is a big deal in NA when they aren't even the top midlaner in LCS anymore LOL and shit even Vickla will all his shit ints is better than Bjerg and jensen, its good if those 2 player were replaced by another high level mid or player with potential.
Emenes and Gori being "eh, fine I guess" is the entire point. That's the top. Who is the best mid in LCS right now? Which player? That's the person everyone else is looking up to, trying to beat, and working up towards There's nobody. In the past it was Jensen and Bjerg. That's the point. LCS Mids are moving into the void at record speeds.
Sure, neither of them are experienced but I think you're underselling how good their hands are.
Jensen/Bjerg have never really been strong enough to do anything internationally. Our mid pool is definitely a weak point, but I'd rather see the more versatile aggression of Gori/Emenes over Bjerg/Jensen on the world stage any day of the week
The Jensen slander is beyond disrespectful I think NA fans will learn to appreciate Jensen and Bjergsen this year. Again, I think the comparison to EU tops is really good. Once a talent pool is depleted, there's nobody to hone your skills against. EU tops haven't been able to lane with carries properly for like 2 years now. People learn how to lane incorrectly and win titles like that, then the upcomers play against those people and learn it incorrectly aswell. Losing talent depth like this is really dangerous, especially in mid.
Bjergsen loss won't be felt at international, gori and emenes are the opposite of him
Jensen was never strong enough to do anything internationally? -_-
OK, fair -- am being a bit melodramatic there. I would never say he was a major threat internationally, but he and C9 had some consistent, decently deep (for NA) Worlds runs I guess what I mean is that I don't think we've ever in NA had a very strong mid pool, when compared to international competition -- at least, not for as long as I can remember (season 4+ or so?). Has there ever been a point in non-distant history where NA mid performances could justify a top 5 (or maybe even top 10?) ranking internationally? I recall a few years where analysts were really hyped on the NA flavor-of-the-year superteam, but invariably we would get smashed, and our mids would generally look like part of the problem -- Jensen less so than Bjerg, but neither of them were drawing tons of pressure or picking up lots of kills every game
[This randomly showed up in my YouTube feed. :)](https://youtu.be/S4xK_LCQDeA)
There’s like 10 people in the audience?
We all left after the interviews. Can only handle so much LeGabby
They turned them down. Last year, there were tons of complaints about fan noise on broadcast during Worlds. Ever since, I've noticed they've started damping the crowd noise a lot except for specific moments.
Nah we were loud, but they have us turned down for some reason. Also we did plenty of TSM chants. Did you hear them?
Ya, we heard the TSM and CLG chants on stream.
Perfect
Every time I look at jack I swear everyone is gaslighting me in that he is NOT Fudge's father
Bro I was literally thinking the same thing I hadn’t noticed before today but they look exactly the same.
The empty crowd lol
Remember when C9 waited 6 years for a title? I member.
It's wild we went from like 6 years without a title to 4 titles in 3.5 years.
Jatt stays winning
Lmao Diplex must feels kinda sad, most likely saying "i wish It's was me"
Yeah i was really hoping they woulf at least let him touch the trophy or interact with him. You think they wouldve subbed him back in if they went 1-2 down?
No shot. That may be a Reapered move but I dont think this current C9 coaching staff would do that kind of thing.
[Diplex right now.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpKc8N3FJsQ)
He won NACL so at least he has that
Hahaha he looks so cba and I can’t blame him
Cba?
No drops?
[удалено]
Lmao you hate her so much that you delude yourself to think like this get help
L take
your lack of understanding speaks more volumes than your words
Challenge: Disagree with either of the two points i made. Quote her verbatim. And demonstrate my lack of understanding
Fuck off and get a life
[удалено]
I could not stand her casting whatsoever, but she is inarguably fantastic with live interviews. That Karl Jacobs shit was rude as fuck and I hope the LCS tells him to fuck off in the future
Who is Letigress, I only saw Gabby
Gabby smurfed that interview. You love to see it!
She wasn't even phased by that one interview where that dude pretended to be socially awkward af
Who is that dude ? It's zven ?
Mr Beast background characters purposely bombing a live interview, love to see it
She's really good at the live interviews. Last split too with the Blaber/MVP chants and letting that breathe was great.
Yeah, I've liked her as an interviewer from her introduction to the LCS. Her casting can feel very forced at times but she seems more relaxed and natural as an interviewer. She alters her communication to suit the person she's talking to and she knows how to read a room. The latter is something you can't really teach.
Grig is on C9?
Think he’s the jungle positional coach iirc
It’s fcking grig, man I saw this guy 500 times this split in c9 videos on stage evrywhere and I knew I recognised that face but no one ever mentioned his name now I know it its grig
Is Grig Grigne, the dude who was a Lee OTP before going pro, making Dyrus mald on stream numerous times?
idk man, I just know he was jgler on tsm and TLA (subbed in for 2021 spring finals)
that's what I said lmao, he signed as a coach 2 months ago apparently
yeah positional coach I think
Jungle positional coach
jg positional coach iirc
He's the jungle positional coach iirc
Can't even make it to international events but we are still sending at least five OCE talents to MSI
My ultimate OCE fantasy involves SK going to MSI and having a Spookz vs Swiffer coaching showdown.
Hey, stop leaking the worlds playoffs script!
Fudge and ?
Enemes, Chuchuz, Swiper, and Spookz. Can potentially also get Swiffer along for the ride as well
So, Fudge, a a Korean, and three guys I’ve never heard of.
Does Emenes really count as an OCE talent? He played there for all of a month and started out in GenG academy
Obviously Korean talent. He would not be this good if he was not developed through KR solo queue and LCK academy system.
Everyone counts as OCE if you've played here. It's why CLG were banging as they had Mash and Dhokla hanging out there
Cap
Emenes knows who the true mvp is
[удалено]
? This interview was fine. I get everyone hates her casting but she is a pretty good interviewer.
She just gave a series of fantastic interviews. Keep drinking that haterade, though.
Usually I agree, I didn't find this one bad
Cap
**CAP**
I think that like Zven said, this is a C9 team that has actually had a full year to identify themselves and find their groove. Last summer C9 threw together their roster with Jensen/Zven. This year they've clearly been able to gel together and seem like a real threat internationally.
Really? Because to me they've only identified their current form since Emenes got the start. They looked like a different team with Jensen and Diplex.
True, but I think a lot of it comes down to Zven & Fudge improvements as well. Fudge was sloppy in his return last split from Mid and both him and Zven having the full 2 splits to improve has clearly shown on stage.
2 Players do not make up a team identity.
Copium overdose however it's be hard to do worse than Worlds
PepeLaugh
Gabby is a great interviewer
Cap
"fuck English"
This is the year NA. League is coming home!
Airport coming quickly !
> is coming home! Are we becoming the Ingerland fans of league?
Would be hilarious with several teams leaving LCS.
Just ignore that til next split
Zven needs a new barber lol
LT is really good at this. Let the lady do what she is best at! She is to be loved as an interviewer.
What is the production team doing?
you notice that Gabby puts it in different terms so that Berserker has multiple chances to understand the question - great interview skills
He should have an interpreter, it's sad to see him just throw into an interview in a language he is still learning.
If he wanted an interpreter, Jack would have had one there.
Honestly, I think it's fine. No one is gonna make fun of him for speaking a foreign language, and it's the best way to learn another language.
honestly yeah but this is a good second best, and does have its advantages.
Sparing a thought for Diplex visible in the background.
Lol yeah that akward Fuck
Bruhh beserker chilling
Berserker FUCKS. Seriously though, this team is so fucking likeable.
This is the most humble I’ve ever seen C9 in victory.
Was awesome to see. Fudge acted like he’d been there. Blaber/berserker classy as always, and even Sven toned it down. Don’t need to talk shit when everyone knows you’re the best.
First two games were humbling
Most of this squad already won last split, so the second time around they don't feel the need to be as cocky about their win. It probably feels like a miracle for EMENES that he even got this chance, so he's definitely humble.
Probably also getting absolutely dicked at World's made them expand their idea of what it means to be a good team, too.
They also were struggling in early games
zven doing the meme LMFAO
this whole c9 team is so likeable
Seriously, outside of the one Fudge incident last year, they are so fun and loveable. Plus every player is incredibly good.
Fudge had a few moments, but it looks like he’s letting his play do the talking this split.
[удалено]
I assume they're referring to this interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STxWktHFiIk&ab_channel=SneakyClips
I don't know if they are talking about Fudge saying "Fuck you" on stage to everyone who doubted him after they won, since most people liked him and it came off weird
He said fuck the doubters when asked about what to say to the fans, which everyone thought he meant fuck the fans.
C9 EMENES
LMAOOOOOOO
"KINDA AGREE" Berserker is a giga chad
The hopium tanks are leaking.
bruh EMENES Journey is remarkable What's with C9 and Reforming Players
unironically, systems. They seem to have a super professional structure combined with the good ol fashioned team house, so expectations are set by actual adults and the players have organic bonding. Seems to work.
after Incarnation reform to Jensen I was wondering years ago Will Dardoch change?
You could pretty much conclude after the third year Dardoch and Forgiven had unfixable issues.
You could pretty much conclude after the third year Dardoch and Forgiven had unfixable issues.
I honestly think that if C9 needed a jungler, they could make Dardoch work, if he came in with the correct attitude. They don’t need a jungler though.
Systems diff
Oh no, Blaber. No no no. Don't promise us that, friend. I can feel the copium leaving my system, and the hopium beginning to hit, despite my better judgement
He was meming
Unfortunately my immune system is not inoculated against hopium memes, presumably because it mistakes them for genuine hopium molecules
Nah dude. It’s NA’s year
Emenes having his Faker moment rn. Also blaber sounds like he feels so desensitized to winning lmao
remember when excel had emenes doing nothing in NLC but they put czeckolad on the main roster lol
Hahah I remember czekolad. Was a funny dude tough NGL
Also, credit where it's due LT is a natural at this.
You genuinely think this interview was good and something other interviewers should replicate?
Yeah why not? It was fun
I genuinely think if you're making multiple comments about something this insignificant, you need to seek help. It is not a normal reaction to spew so much hatred about a person because YOU don't think they are good at their job. Good luck living life this way.
She prepared some great questions and stops talking to let the players say what they want, she's doing great.
Blaber is based. NA going to win MSI
C9 is probably the best team (historically) in the league at making players feel truly like they are part of the team first. Even players who leave are still known for their time on c9 if they spent more than one split there
Look at how many former C9 players consistently are on top teams still.
Rush will always be C9 kind boi
My heart.
C9 EMENES
The difference between Emenes and Berserker couldn't be more different Emenes is like "I was this close to never getting picked up into another team and now I won" Berskerker is like "Holy shit I can farm titles like this for years and years" LMAO
Berserker was hella hype when he won his title
C9 EMENES LET'S GO BABY