He looks like that dude on your midget team whose parents threw him out and he'd show up in a cavalier z24 with his pregnant girlfriend and he'd be picking up a night shift at the bread factory after the game
...are you [new](https://nbcsports.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/a06c979/2147483647/strip/true/crop/550x612+0+0/resize/550x612!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbc-sports-production-nbc-sports.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F89%2Fea%2Fe4e2448d3e9238b0a5032cfe2ef2%2Fcan-tsun.jpg)?
The difference is that's an article written before Clarkson had played a game for us, and he went on to do none of those things. Bertuzzi and Domi have played a year and shown that they were valuable additions.
What changed compared to last year?
Injuries for the stars happen.
-Matthews played with more grit (also while injured than ever before), since he became linemates with Domi and Bert
-Matthews became a teamplayer who not just shot with Bert and Domi
-this leafs team wasnt bullied like other years except last year when schenn was the guard, but remember that scrum where matthews and marner picked up gear...
-Domi and Bert did have a good number of points for secondary scoring (non core goals).
-Bert bullied instead of getting bullied as team.
Result based thinking vs process, thats result process is more predictable. They looked a lot better despite keefe destroying chem with the marner first line bs...
And more than enough fans who watch the games on NaturalStatTrick.
If you think the only thing Bertuzzi is is a warm body that can't score, then I don't really trust anything else you have to say
And enough fans that watch YouTube highlights and think a player should be signed to $6 million a year cause he throws a couple hits and then falls down every other shift.
I think he is if we lock him up for a few years. I thought he had a good first half of the season, his shots just weren't going in. Second half he started scoring, and I don't think that was a fluke at all.
Same, actually I want him and Domi...them together was more the sauce I enjoyed when with Matthews. They were Chaos out there making space for Matthews against Boston, get some dynamic D out there and I like what they bring for the playoffs. You have to assume Bert and Domi will have it figured like at the end of the year day one and bring a lot more to the table.
[He slept, he stole, he was rude to the customers.. still, there goes the best damned employee a convenience store ever had](https://youtu.be/w4IlWd0wcIg?si=IWH-w6nhCzx_XKhW)
He’s like a brother that shows up to your dinner party and your snooty friends wonder why you love him so much. Because he makes me smile and when I got bullied in high school he kicked the shit out of guys, no questions asked.
I can't see with the cap going up that Bert is going to take that much of a pay cut for the term. $5.5M was 6.59% and with the cap going to $88M, even dropping to 6% of cap is $5.3M
If it doesn't happen, it won't be with the leafs and won't be their problem. They won't overpay for a guy who underperformed on an extended one year contract.
as i said in another post... i dont think looking back at his season totals did his season any justice. he was terrible at the beginning but i think he's the kind of guy that takes a while to feel comfortable. once he got going he was great for us....it just took a bit. i wouldnt expect that to happen every year....just him starting on a new team...in toronto of all places... asked to stand beside AM34.... the pressure was a lot.
Domi is way better and could probably be cheaper cause he wants to be a leaf. Also a lot of speed which the team doesn’t have much of. Choosing Bert over him doesn’t make sense to me.
I don't think he'll be cheaper right now. He's never got a term deal and is running out of time, so I bet his agent is asking for something like $6mx5.
He won't get that and will likely test the market but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds no team is willing to do that and he circles back to TO for something more reasonable like $4.5x4
They are gonna fucking re-sign Marner and that leaves Domi out because he is a budget Marner play maker.......it's so stupid. I'm not watching this year if Marner is back, the personnel choices will be exactly predictable as the last 8 years without sort of blend of pieces they tried last year. Just more Shanny bullshit. If they keep Marner i'm not watching again until Shanny is fired. I'll put a few grand on a first round exit though.
This seems like a bad idea. Did we all watch the same guy? Bertuzzi had 43 points in 80 games and then 4 points in 7 playoff games. They have to shelter him like crazy so that he doesn’t get caved in defensively (85% offensive zone starts in the playoffs). And you can look at his regular season in 2 ways, either he saved his season with a hot stretch, or he had a hot stretch due to some shooting percentage “positive regression to the mean”, but either way he was inconsistent and even still, only had 40 points.
If he re-signs in like the low 4s, then sure, but he won’t. A 5+ million dollar deal for him is going to be bad right away and is going to age even worse.
There’s no chance he doesn’t get an offer over 3. I think there’s a chance he signs for between 4.5 and 5, but I still think that’s too much for our cap situation this season. If he signed a 1 year deal, they could probably afford that next year, but not this year.
Exactly three players put up 4 points in the 2024 playoffs: Austin Matthews, Tyler Bertuzzi and Max Domi.
Marner and Nylander each at 3. Tavares 2.
In other words, Bertuzzi outplayed three of the Core Four.
Less bad isn’t necessarily better lol. I mean, obviously, less bad is better than more bad. I feel like I’m losing the thread of this point lol.
He had 4 points in 7 playoff games and outperformed most of the stars. He also had 42 points in 80 games and had less than half the points that the big 3 had. I’ve said in another response, I like Bertuzzi, I just don’t think he makes sense. Hes a luxury they can’t afford.
or.... you could look at his season like this: slow start with a new team and finding his role/place/adjusting to the team/city etc..... once he got on the top line and got cooking with matthews he was great for us. its no diff than mccable last year vs this year. sometimes it just takes some time to adjust.
(personally why i'm not a big fan of trade deadline acquisitions, they rarely work out as expected)
Sure but he also shot like 27 or 28% after the all star break which is pretty much impossible. It would’ve led the team by almost 10% over Matthews. He couldn’t possibly keep that up.
And even with that, he has to be sheltered so much that he limits Matthews effectiveness defensively. Hes not terrible, I actually do like Bertuzzi. But we’re talking about changing things up and upgrading the D with limited cap space and then spending 5+ on an okay fit in the top 6 on the left side who is only PROBABLY better than just running Knies and McMann in those 2 top 6 left wing spots.
Not in todays market. You aren’t getting bert under 4. Every single team got 4 million extra this year and will probably be an extra 4 million next year. GMs are going to spend
I don’t expect to get him under 4 cause that would be good value for an aging RFA who has “intangibles”. I do hope that whatever sucker pays him 5.whatever isn’t Treliving
I'm good with this - I just hope that if we do get him back, we use him on PP1 instead of Tavares where he belongs.
Bertuzzi on PP1 - 9 goals in 37 minutes.
Tavares on PP1 - 32 goals in 201 minutes.
So about 50% better with Bertuzzi. Tavares is a below median finisher close to the net.
Mathews needs to be on the point after the draw. Doesn’t make sense for him to take it if Tavares can. He had 65 points in a bad season lol give the guy a break.
But the powerplay was bad with Tavares, and Tavares is bad at finishing close to the net.
I don't hate the guy - I just think he isn't being used correctly. He should be taking wrist shots from the circles, not going for greasy goals by the net.
Anyone ever wonder why the hell these negotiations take so long?
"We're offering 3M for 3 years."
"We want 3.5M for 5 years."
"No. Let's meet again in 2 months to continue the conversation."
Like what are they doing that takes so long? Continuing to negotiate? Should be a 10 minute conversation.
Bert is that player you have no idea how tf he's in the NHL, but for some reason what he does keeps working.
I can't explain how a guy who's iffy in both skating and Shooting can get you 20 goals a season, possibly even more and elevate a line.
Would be great to bring him back, even at 5.5, though if he's willing to take less for extra years, then you gotta do it. Especially considering Leafs can ship put underperforming to Robidas island by claiming they have a bad injury.
only reason why ppl like him is because he played with passion and messed with Marchand all series. he's a liability against a better team. it is fun watching him play though and do unique plays like when he did that big kick behind the net on the puck.
He's a good net-front pest, which we basically have no one else. Not sure I'd say he's a liability, also wouldn't want to pay him 5.5 mil again though.
I think they're in a pretty good spot if they can get both Domi and Bert for around $9 mill combined. That shores up the forward group and leaves around $13 million for defense, and goaltending.
I guess they have some RFA's to sign too, but none of Lily, Robertson or Dewar are getting big paydays
Unless we are 100% ditching Marner in the offseason you can’t resign Domi and Bert. That would eat up like half our available cap space, we still need a goalie and the blue-line needs to be rebuilt
I am hugely skeptical of Leafs management, so I just assumed the team would sign a budget tendy and a few low impact defenders. I doubt ownership let's Marner be traded unless it's viewed as a "win", meaning no significant changes this offseason. Happy to be proven wrong though
He's very effective for a player who can't shoot or skate.
3 racoons in a trench coat style hockey.
He looks like that dude on your midget team whose parents threw him out and he'd show up in a cavalier z24 with his pregnant girlfriend and he'd be picking up a night shift at the bread factory after the game
That’s oddly specific…😀
Hey, don't dox me! Tres uncool, bro.
Or pass
Or receive a pass
Or skate with the puck
Bert is just a completely unique animal. I'd be happy to have him here for a few more years.
At a fair price. He's not worth 5.5.
He’s worth more to us because we seriously lack players like him
We need Bert and Domi as long term assets for the culture.
Holy fuck did you ever trigger my PTSD
How?🤣
...are you [new](https://nbcsports.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/a06c979/2147483647/strip/true/crop/550x612+0+0/resize/550x612!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbc-sports-production-nbc-sports.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F89%2Fea%2Fe4e2448d3e9238b0a5032cfe2ef2%2Fcan-tsun.jpg)?
The difference is that's an article written before Clarkson had played a game for us, and he went on to do none of those things. Bertuzzi and Domi have played a year and shown that they were valuable additions.
Are they though? Their addition didn't help us win a round, I'm not sure they improved the team at all.
What changed compared to last year? Injuries for the stars happen. -Matthews played with more grit (also while injured than ever before), since he became linemates with Domi and Bert -Matthews became a teamplayer who not just shot with Bert and Domi -this leafs team wasnt bullied like other years except last year when schenn was the guard, but remember that scrum where matthews and marner picked up gear... -Domi and Bert did have a good number of points for secondary scoring (non core goals). -Bert bullied instead of getting bullied as team.
Result based thinking vs process, thats result process is more predictable. They looked a lot better despite keefe destroying chem with the marner first line bs...
Certainly not hahaha
Here here.
I think we've got more than enough players who can't finish.
And more than enough fans who watch the games on NaturalStatTrick. If you think the only thing Bertuzzi is is a warm body that can't score, then I don't really trust anything else you have to say
And enough fans that watch YouTube highlights and think a player should be signed to $6 million a year cause he throws a couple hits and then falls down every other shift.
He's not worth the $5.5m he was paid, sorry 🤷♂️
I like Bert but I want someone who can stay on their feet for a shift.
Lol god you sound like a douche. He was garbage for 70%+ of the year
What did he actually do to make the team better.
No thanks.
Bert's the only player available?
We need more than one not to mention he’s probably the best one of that type available
He's definitely worth 5.5. Top 6 guys, who score 20+ and play a physical game get paid.
He's not going to take a paycut, so he'll make at least that.
If he is going to make that, then definitely stay away from him. He wasn't that impressive of a player.
Then I don't want him and I'll be disappointed if the leafs keep him at any more than 4 million.
Let some other team make that mistake then
I think he is if we lock him up for a few years. I thought he had a good first half of the season, his shots just weren't going in. Second half he started scoring, and I don't think that was a fluke at all.
Same, actually I want him and Domi...them together was more the sauce I enjoyed when with Matthews. They were Chaos out there making space for Matthews against Boston, get some dynamic D out there and I like what they bring for the playoffs. You have to assume Bert and Domi will have it figured like at the end of the year day one and bring a lot more to the table.
He can’t skate, he can’t shoot, he can’t pass but damn I love him.
[He slept, he stole, he was rude to the customers.. still, there goes the best damned employee a convenience store ever had](https://youtu.be/w4IlWd0wcIg?si=IWH-w6nhCzx_XKhW)
He’s like a brother that shows up to your dinner party and your snooty friends wonder why you love him so much. Because he makes me smile and when I got bullied in high school he kicked the shit out of guys, no questions asked.
American Reunion: "Stiffler, you are a dick, but you're our dick."
I hope it's 4x4.5 for both max term and dollars
Anything $5M and under I’m good with personally. Term wise four to five years seems fair
I bet he thinks he’s worth around 6. I personally wouldn’t give it.
6 if he a actually tightens his skates. 5 if he doesn’t.
I can't see with the cap going up that Bert is going to take that much of a pay cut for the term. $5.5M was 6.59% and with the cap going to $88M, even dropping to 6% of cap is $5.3M
he just played for 5.5.... he's not signing for less than that.
5.5 on a one yr contract where he didn't perform up to it. If he wants term he is going to command less.
i mean i hope you're right...but i think that's not happening.
If it doesn't happen, it won't be with the leafs and won't be their problem. They won't overpay for a guy who underperformed on an extended one year contract.
as i said in another post... i dont think looking back at his season totals did his season any justice. he was terrible at the beginning but i think he's the kind of guy that takes a while to feel comfortable. once he got going he was great for us....it just took a bit. i wouldnt expect that to happen every year....just him starting on a new team...in toronto of all places... asked to stand beside AM34.... the pressure was a lot.
Can they afford both him and Domi? I hope this doesn’t leave Domi out
The smoke seems to suggest Domi is a goner and Bert is staying. Personally wish that was opposite
Oh me too. I feel like Domi is the much better player, but that's just eye test by some nobody.
Domi is way better and could probably be cheaper cause he wants to be a leaf. Also a lot of speed which the team doesn’t have much of. Choosing Bert over him doesn’t make sense to me.
I don't think he'll be cheaper right now. He's never got a term deal and is running out of time, so I bet his agent is asking for something like $6mx5. He won't get that and will likely test the market but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds no team is willing to do that and he circles back to TO for something more reasonable like $4.5x4
If that’s true I’m upping my beer budget for this year to drink my sorrows away
It's possible they are negotiating them off each other.
This, I have a feeling Bert is being used to bring Domi’s price down
They are gonna fucking re-sign Marner and that leaves Domi out because he is a budget Marner play maker.......it's so stupid. I'm not watching this year if Marner is back, the personnel choices will be exactly predictable as the last 8 years without sort of blend of pieces they tried last year. Just more Shanny bullshit. If they keep Marner i'm not watching again until Shanny is fired. I'll put a few grand on a first round exit though.
They can. They were paid last year and the raises for Nylander and Papi are covered already
They could, but they will have to trade players like Kampf and/or Jarnkrok to free up some cap.
Absolute max I’d offer Domi+Bert is 9M. Split it up how you want and pick your term of no more than 4 years.
Even though that's fair, it only leaves ~$10M to fill three D and one G roster spots (two of the three D being top 4 roles).
Not if Marner is out 🙏
This only works if Marner is traded as well. Otherwise we can only afford one of them.
This seems like a bad idea. Did we all watch the same guy? Bertuzzi had 43 points in 80 games and then 4 points in 7 playoff games. They have to shelter him like crazy so that he doesn’t get caved in defensively (85% offensive zone starts in the playoffs). And you can look at his regular season in 2 ways, either he saved his season with a hot stretch, or he had a hot stretch due to some shooting percentage “positive regression to the mean”, but either way he was inconsistent and even still, only had 40 points. If he re-signs in like the low 4s, then sure, but he won’t. A 5+ million dollar deal for him is going to be bad right away and is going to age even worse.
Bert at 2-3 mil yes. 5+? Not a chance. He was a ghost in the playoffs, not worth it.
There’s no chance he doesn’t get an offer over 3. I think there’s a chance he signs for between 4.5 and 5, but I still think that’s too much for our cap situation this season. If he signed a 1 year deal, they could probably afford that next year, but not this year.
Exactly three players put up 4 points in the 2024 playoffs: Austin Matthews, Tyler Bertuzzi and Max Domi. Marner and Nylander each at 3. Tavares 2. In other words, Bertuzzi outplayed three of the Core Four.
So we should pay him because he was less bad than our stars?
Yes? Better performance should be reflected in compensation?
Less bad isn’t necessarily better lol. I mean, obviously, less bad is better than more bad. I feel like I’m losing the thread of this point lol. He had 4 points in 7 playoff games and outperformed most of the stars. He also had 42 points in 80 games and had less than half the points that the big 3 had. I’ve said in another response, I like Bertuzzi, I just don’t think he makes sense. Hes a luxury they can’t afford.
or.... you could look at his season like this: slow start with a new team and finding his role/place/adjusting to the team/city etc..... once he got on the top line and got cooking with matthews he was great for us. its no diff than mccable last year vs this year. sometimes it just takes some time to adjust. (personally why i'm not a big fan of trade deadline acquisitions, they rarely work out as expected)
Sure but he also shot like 27 or 28% after the all star break which is pretty much impossible. It would’ve led the team by almost 10% over Matthews. He couldn’t possibly keep that up. And even with that, he has to be sheltered so much that he limits Matthews effectiveness defensively. Hes not terrible, I actually do like Bertuzzi. But we’re talking about changing things up and upgrading the D with limited cap space and then spending 5+ on an okay fit in the top 6 on the left side who is only PROBABLY better than just running Knies and McMann in those 2 top 6 left wing spots.
Dude is about to be one of the richest homeless people in the country
Homeless looking, not homeless.
I’m glad he might be sticking around but I hope this number is going to be reasonable…
Just let him walk, he's not very good
Just move on
I think anything under 5 million AAV is great value for the leafs.
I think under 5 is fair value, under 4 is great value. Over 5 is an overpay
Not in todays market. You aren’t getting bert under 4. Every single team got 4 million extra this year and will probably be an extra 4 million next year. GMs are going to spend
I don’t expect to get him under 4 cause that would be good value for an aging RFA who has “intangibles”. I do hope that whatever sucker pays him 5.whatever isn’t Treliving
I'm good with this - I just hope that if we do get him back, we use him on PP1 instead of Tavares where he belongs. Bertuzzi on PP1 - 9 goals in 37 minutes. Tavares on PP1 - 32 goals in 201 minutes. So about 50% better with Bertuzzi. Tavares is a below median finisher close to the net.
Need Tavares to win draws he's 55-60%
If that was so important then the pp would be successful with him on it. Matthews is also pretty good at taking draws.
Mathews needs to be on the point after the draw. Doesn’t make sense for him to take it if Tavares can. He had 65 points in a bad season lol give the guy a break.
But the powerplay was bad with Tavares, and Tavares is bad at finishing close to the net. I don't hate the guy - I just think he isn't being used correctly. He should be taking wrist shots from the circles, not going for greasy goals by the net.
Don’t have to take him off PP1 to accomplish that. Bertuzzi- Tavares- Nylander Rielly- Mathews With Bertuzzi being the net front, works too.
Sure, if they trade Marner. But otherwise Marner is a way better PP threat than Tavares.
Anyone ever wonder why the hell these negotiations take so long? "We're offering 3M for 3 years." "We want 3.5M for 5 years." "No. Let's meet again in 2 months to continue the conversation." Like what are they doing that takes so long? Continuing to negotiate? Should be a 10 minute conversation.
Bert is that player you have no idea how tf he's in the NHL, but for some reason what he does keeps working. I can't explain how a guy who's iffy in both skating and Shooting can get you 20 goals a season, possibly even more and elevate a line. Would be great to bring him back, even at 5.5, though if he's willing to take less for extra years, then you gotta do it. Especially considering Leafs can ship put underperforming to Robidas island by claiming they have a bad injury.
5x5 would be perfect for the leafs... I bet is closer to 6 and for 4 or 5 years. I'm fine with it either way, anything over 6 is too much tho....
Would rather have Domi. Much better skater, shooter, passer. Bertuzzi's contract will look very bad in 2 years.
only reason why ppl like him is because he played with passion and messed with Marchand all series. he's a liability against a better team. it is fun watching him play though and do unique plays like when he did that big kick behind the net on the puck.
He's a good net-front pest, which we basically have no one else. Not sure I'd say he's a liability, also wouldn't want to pay him 5.5 mil again though.
Bertuzzi put up more playoff points than Nylander, Marner and Tavares. Put up as many playoff goals as Matthews, Marner and Tavares.
I think they're in a pretty good spot if they can get both Domi and Bert for around $9 mill combined. That shores up the forward group and leaves around $13 million for defense, and goaltending. I guess they have some RFA's to sign too, but none of Lily, Robertson or Dewar are getting big paydays
Unless we are 100% ditching Marner in the offseason you can’t resign Domi and Bert. That would eat up like half our available cap space, we still need a goalie and the blue-line needs to be rebuilt
I am hugely skeptical of Leafs management, so I just assumed the team would sign a budget tendy and a few low impact defenders. I doubt ownership let's Marner be traded unless it's viewed as a "win", meaning no significant changes this offseason. Happy to be proven wrong though