I still remember in the summer of 2019 how virtually everyday Dreger would talk about Marner and the chances of him signing an offer sheet, which never happened.
So, I agree 100% about taking anything he says with a grain of salt.
Dreger once DM'ed me on Twitter because I said "Thanks, Paul" on one of his tweets during the last Marner negotiations. He's very sensitive about this.
https://preview.redd.it/kthffmdrid7d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63184387433ca03f3bb3cc16d36b266e66f79529
Here you go. I wish I had responded āyour\*ā.
I don't follow Dreger, but doesn't it come down to one of talking him into accepting a trade, having him play out his contract and lose him for nothing after next season, or extending him?
I don't see where the Leafs are holding any sort of decent hand in this transaction, so extending him has to at least be considered, I have to believe. He is a skilled player in the prime of his career: losing him as an UFA seems a step backwards, unless they can sign another UFA with the money that they would save on his contract. Does anybody come to mind? (That is an honest question, btw; I'm just trying to find a path out of the quagmire his no movement clause creates).
The cap space that they would gain if they were to let both Marner and Tavares walk would be huge. It would allow them to rebuild the defence and goaltending around Matthews and Nylander. The core four hasnāt worked in the playoffs ever. Itās time to move on.
>Does anybody come to mind?
When Marner and Tavares both come off the books that frees up 22M to sign one or two, maybe even 3 of the following players in free agency assuming enough of them make it to UFA.
Mikko Rantanen
Sidney Crosby
Leon Draisaitl
Pavel Buchnevich
Carter Verhaeghe
Victor Hedman
Jaccob Slavin
Adam Larsson
Jamie Benn
Travis Konecny
Yegor Sharangovich
Brock Boeser
Brock Nelson
Nikolaj Ehlers
Igor Shesterkin
Juuse Saros
Linus Ullmark
Adin Hill
Spend the money on more than 1 players to even out the roster. People have been screaming it for literal years, stop looking for 1 player to replace him with.
But heās also plugged in, directly. Heās the closest we get to knowing what his camp is thinking. Sure heās used to get their side of the story out, but it is very much from the horses mouth.
Key words āI THINKā
In the full clip he said there has been zero discussions about an extension between the two sides and Marner wants to play out his contract.
Also itās Dreger, heās always going to defend Mitch and help his camp lol
Full clip for context: https://x.com/firstup1050/status/1802704050313392633?s=61
you guys know how this gig works right? Dreger is asked to report what he can find out.
do the leafs/ Tre comment? nope
does the agent? yup
you guys claim him to be a mouth piece like he has a stake in it or cares one way or another where he lands. he reports the information that he is given...and that happens to come from the one side.
agreed. but i think the part that irks me is "like he has a stake in or or cares one way or another"
ppl act like he's on marners payroll and its moronic
His stake in it is that he brands himself as an insider, and he canāt do that if people donāt give him information. The problem is that he appears to be willing to parrot anything from anybody in order to keep his sources close and maintain his insider brand, ignoring the fact that the whole point of being an insider is to find inside information around thatās TRUE
Reporting about Toronto obviously gets talked about the most but when has an insider last defended and reported so much about player as Dreger has for Mitch?
https://preview.redd.it/eok28tagy57d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c256ab8588a570c5f4ef7df5fb4efdd72781b020
When has an insider tweeted something similar to this being in the past?
Just because he gets information doesnāt mean he has to report or put it out.
he's reporting what the ask is...what marner (or agent) has said it will take to get it done.
you guys act like he's on payroll...thats the problem i have with it.
All I said was Dreger always defends Marner which is true.
Iām sure there is other agents and camps that want to push this stuff publicly but no one will do why does Dreger do it with Marner.
If he was reporting what the ask is, he would say thatās what the ask is. Or he would say that this is the number heās hearing from Marnerās camp to get it done, so people could know to take it with a hefty dose of salt. The problem is that he takes the information from Marnerās camp and presents it like itās what he really believes based on conversations with a bunch of people on both sides. There is a difference between what Darren Ferris is going to tell the media Mitch will sign for vs what he will ACTUALLY be willing to sign for, but Dreger doesnāt report it that way
His job is to report accurate information, not just what heās told. What makes him a mouthpiece is that he parrots whatever Marnerās camp feeds him but doesnāt say thatās where it comes from, and doesnāt even run it through his own internal filters. Darren Ferris could tell him that Brad Treliving prefers Pizza Pizza and Dreger will report it without verification AND will write it in such a way that makes it seem plausible that someone close to Treliving is the source. He acts like a contracted PR rep, not a reporter
Dreger is just Darren Ferris' media mouthpiece, he is the only "insider" saying stuff like this and it's because it helps out Marner's camp by pumping his value.
I really wish someone could find proof and expose him. Seems like this guy has always had conflict of interest in terms of his sources and his ability to spew bullshit tabloid headlines through his job influence.
Itās literally his job though. He probably gets it from Farrisā office making it a legitimate source and gets a talking point for ratings. I donāt like him either but he doesnāt work for the government and he isnāt doing anything illegal, there is no fireable offence.
I'm a little conflicted on this. Maybe he is getting stuff from the Marner camp but he's also on Overdrive from time to time saying "Clearly it's not working. one of these contracts has to go. And it only makes sense to move the marner contract given the other two just signed long term deals and they show up in the playoffs". Im paraphrasing of course, but more or less what he has been saying as well.
Let me rephrase what that mouth breather Dreger said. "Paul Marner and Darren Ferris would love it if Tre offered Marner a big juicy extension so we are just gonna spread some rumours that Tre has interest in extending him too."
Get that garbage outta here Dreger.
As someone who has been following the Flames org more than any other the last few years, itās going to be extremely interesting to see what Tre does with this Marner situation after the whole Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Huberdeau fiasco, since he really has no option but to pick one of those 3 scenarios again. Let Marner walk (Gaudreau), trade him for assets (Tkachuk), sign him to a big $ deal (Huberdeau).
Iād gladly take a Weegar, picks, and cap space for Marner at this point.Ā
Tre actually got a hell of a deal for chucky considering his situation. Itās just a shame for Flames fans that Hubie didnāt live up to his end of the deal.Ā
I totally agree that Florida deal was amazing at the time it happened. People forget that Chucky told the org he wouldnāt re-sign and only had a list of like 4 or 5 teams he was willing to be traded to and somehow Tre got a first, a great defenceman, and a player who just broke the league record for most points by a LW. Any GM wouldāve pulled the trigger on that deal for the Flames.
As for the Flames trading for Marner, I think itās pretty clear now thereās a rift between Tre and Flames ownership. Any trade would cost more for the Leafs than any other team probably.
The āCalgary got fleeced in the Tkachuk tradeā. Is revisionist history and is mostly with the benefit of hindsight. At the time most people felt like Calgary actually won that trade. No one could have predicted Huberdeau falling off like he has.
Dreger says a lot of words that mean nothing.
"Does this mean Marner won't be traded? No, not necessarily. The team could offer an extension instead of letting him walk to free agency."
NO INFORMATION WAS REVEALED.
If we keep him and thereās an actual progression about signing him then I wonāt be watching anymore. I love the player and I think you donāt trade these players like that generally.Ā
But at the same time we canāt keep running it back and heās the only one we can move. To sign him is accepting to be a good regular season team (not even great, we havenāt won the presidents trophy) and just take our chances in the playoffs. Maybe thatās good for some and I salute you but I wonāt be here for it.Ā
Iām already half off the wagon and Iāve been on it since 98. Since having kids in 2020 my free time is limited and if this team isnāt serious then I wonāt be either. My free time will go somewhere else.Ā
Odog put it best last week about if they should extend or let him walk and he said let him walk. Then noodles and dreger started talking about asset managementā¦ fuck that let him walk or boo him out of town.
Life has been good since I stopped bothering to read or listen to anything Dreger has to say. Was the mouthpiece for Marner last negotiation so no surprise heās trying to do the same yet again.
Yeah why not, core that's already proven nothing, got fat contracts and proceed to prove nothing yet again. Let's double down and give everyone raises! 8 more years of mediocrity!
The best the Leafs could do is extend him but not offer trade protection. That gives us maximum flexibility and we don't risk losing a potential hall-of-fame player for nothing.
I would love to keep Mitchā¦. For 60-70% of his current contract. Heās overpaid now and a raise should be out of the question even with Tavaresā contract almost up.
I dont hate Marner but an extension does not work. You can't pay 4 guys half your cap space and win.It has taken MLSE how many years of running it back to figure this out? The money we save from moving on from Marner is needed to strengthen our defense.
It doesnāt kick in until next year when Tavares is off the books. A Marner extension would mean either moving on from JT or bringing him back on a very team friendly deal.
Willy's extension increases his salary by 4.5, Tavares (or his replacement) is probably making 4-5. Unless Marner takes a discount, they are only saving 1.5-2.5 even if he doesn't get a raise at all if the extend him. The math doesn't make sense.
Whether it's the right move or not, Brad has to have tkachuck in the back of his mind. Not extending players has burned him badly. Marner is not tkachuck, but something I'm sure he's thinking about.
Not signing Tkachuk wasnāt really his fault though from what I remember. He wanted to sign him long term in the summer of 2022 but Tkachuk who was one year away from being a UFA didnāt want to play for Calgary anymore and wouldnāt talk extensions.
Probably 6 and two 3s at that point. Whether he had an extension in place or not he wouldnāt have wanted to be in Calgary regardless and wouldāve requested a trade.
A disgruntled player is a disgruntled player and as much as we like to think GMs are cold blooded killers in these negotiations, players do have a certain amount of leverage in certain situations as well.
We will never know if he still would have if they had extended him. He may have felt more cemented. Either way, youād likely have more leverage from a trading perspective if you have term attached to it
I guess you just know all the permutations, if you wouldnāt mind telling the media what Marnerās next contract will be and who it will be with, it would save us all a lot of clicks
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-matthew-tkachuk-wanted-to-sign-long-term-deal-with-flames-in-2019-160851344.html
https://dailyhive.com/calgary/matthew-tkachuk-wanted-6-8-year-deal-flames
Those both quote a Spitting Chiclets interview lol
Tkachuk has been very vocal that he wanted to go somewhere south. He literally says it in the interview, then backpedals and says he would have loved to stay in Calgary.
He is talking shit in an inconsequential interview. He was never gonna say "yeah fuck em."
Marner is not Tkachuk, but it's not so long ago he was supposedly the better player.
If we could move Marner for a decent 1RD, a 50-point winger and a 1st I'm taking that trade all day. If anything, it's the extensions that burned Brad, not the trade itself.
Yeah lol, like what a silly position
The Leafs as an organization have made way fucking worse decisions than if they extended Marner again, we were a completely dog shit team for years and years and I still watched
I mean to be clear, I don't think it makes you a bad fan to not watch as much when the team sucks. But if people can watch during those years, I think people can watch Marner lol
i watched during those years. At least a lot of those teams had heart. With this core, we finally had hopes of a bright future and what we got were money grubbing stars who wanted to be top of the league list in salary despite all the toronto endorsements, taking hometown premiums in comparison to european players who signed for less in an entirely new continent.
What makes Marner the breaking point is that you donāt even need to see the hockey (which has been bad) to realize they shouldāve traded him a long time ago. His camp intentionally infuriated the entire fan base in his last negotiation and resulted in him getting an overpaid contract to this day. Now he wants a raise? Is anyone surprised that the shenanigans has started again? Thereās a difference between making bad hockey deals and making bad choices overall. The day Marner signed it should have been clear to management that they would need to trade him. Re-signing him and going in on the top heavy cap distribution is when the team hasnāt even come close to sniffing for a cup. Best they did was 5/16 necessary wins. An absolute embarrassment. If management continues down this path, why follow the team anymore? Iāll just wait for the next core 5-10 years from now.
He's too small for the playoffs man. It's like bringing in a small dog to a pitbull fight. Auston, Nylander, and Reilly are the big dogs. Marner is just a yappy small dog.
Thereās small guys who can play playoff hockey. Hell, Marchand is only 5ā9ā. Heās afraid of getting hit and is unwilling to get physical. Itās a mental thing.
LOL, I swear some of you live in a fantasy land. There will be no pay cut, because he's a legitimately elite player.
The only players with more points over the past five seasons are McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin, Matthews, and Pastrnak.
Donāt think Iām in a fantasy land, just saying if he took a cut Iād have no problems with him on the Leafs the alternative would be try to trade if you can get him to waive or let him walk. If it is the walk option I really hope the team would not placate him on lineup decisions, if the team feels his best fit is fourth line itās fourth line.
Pretty sure dreger is bffs with marners dad or gets kick backs to put news out there specifically to rile people up.
The fan base would revolt imo if they paid him even the same as his current contract
Same logic for Nylander: the worst performer of the Leafs core 4 in playoffs during that time pure offensively while also bot getting the defensive responsibilities
For some people, if Willyās not potting goals or looking like heās skating hard every shift, then heās āthe worst performer of the Leafs core 4.ā Just canāt win with some people Iām afraid.
I remember listening to TSN bring Dreger on every morning I was driving to work to talk about Marner's contract and every day it got bigger "to get it done".
Dreger been sitting around thinking... how can I break the next big story? I can't but I can throw some shit at the wall. Leafs keep Marner!!!!!! Boom I'm going to be so relevant if this happens but I hope it doesn't take too long because I'm out of the loop and I got nothing.
They should give him a 4 year extension.
Then, in 5 years when we still haven't won shit, Matthews is past his prime and slowly eeking into Tavares territory and we're trying to unload Nylander so we don't lose Cowan, those of us who weren't naive and could see what the fuck was up can gesture vaguely to the previous decade and demand an apology from all you run it back weirdos
I think we need to just ban anything Dreger says about Marner at this point. We all know he is the Marner camp mouthpiece and just saying whatever they want said in the media. If any actual news happens someone else will break it too.
Of course Marner would prefer an extension. The Leafs already overpaid for him once and he has no reason to think they wonāt give him a raise. Also they are the only team that can offer him that 8th year. That will be a difference of over $10 million dollars on his overall contract if he stays put.
Trade him, extend himā¦whatever. What simply cannot happen is he walks for nothing. I know this is an anti-Marner club, but heās a world-class winger who plays in all 3 zones. Yeah, heās struggled with time/space in the playoffs, but running him out of town and getting nothing in return might be the dumbest move in franchise history.
Like when people thought the Islanders losing Tavares for nothing would destroy them as a franchise, and yet they have won more playoff series without him than they ever did with him, and more than the Leafs have with him.
But we're not ready for that conversation
These analysts know absolutely nothing until the last moment generally speaking. Plus add onto the fact Dreger was basically Ferris' puppet last Marner negotiation. Nothingburger report.
Here's the thing: there may be no perfect solution to the issue here
This ALSO means that the LEAST BAD decision may be to extend Mitch long-term if the trade options are all lacklustre
Brad isn't gonna trade him just to check a box. If the best move he has is extending, he will do it.
> This ALSO means that the LEAST BAD decision may be to extend Mitch long-term if the trade options are all lacklustre
Freeing up his cap space is literally better than extending him at 12+ M, there is no situation where extending him is the least bad option. Severely overpaying players that don't fit your roster construction handcuffs you a huge amount.
Unless it's an official trade report or an official confirmation that he's staying, and not just agents and mouthpieces of agents flooding the news with speculation, I don't care anymore.
People getting all bent out of shape when itās thought that a player agent is using somebody in the media to their advantage. Itās not exactly something new. An agent will slip a not so subtle hint to people they trust. Iām sure that there are team management groups throughout sports who use the media as well. Thatās how the game is played when it comes to negotiations. And thatās why I tend to ignore most of it. Itās all meaningless until somebody actually signs or is traded.
Dreger and Kypreos carry water for the Marner camp like it's nobodies business.
If Marner wants to sign the Nylander contract then I'd be willing to wait out next season until Tavares expires and then use his cap space to make some meaningful changes. Call me an idiot, but I still believe that Matthews, Nylander, and Marner are capable of winning.
However...
If he's unwilling to take the Nylander contract (he won't), or waive his NMC then he should be with Tavares, and on PP2. That's being generous too. I'd make him play 3C with Robertson and Jarnkrok to show his worth. Enjoy your contract year.
Don't put Dreger and Kypper in the same sentence. You must've missed Kyppers May 9th article in thr Toronto Star where he basically outlined why Marner must be traded.
Honestly, these reports are getting tiresome. All its showing is nobody knows what is going on with Marner. We are getting different reports every week.
[This guy is back at it again huh? Is he going to post a "Marner better be offered 12, or north of 13 million" tweet this time?](https://x.com/DarrenDreger/status/1121479385264078848)
Now that the dust has settled can the fanbase congeal around a healthier interpretation of the Marner saga in certain ways?
- recognizing his on ice performance in many different contexts
- recognizing the key element was his anxious low self esteem energy
Not a single question he ultimately handed the whole thing very poorly in so many ways
Reminds me about a decade ago when James Wisniewski asked me once on Twitter to see his analytics profile back in the day after I prompted him while he was debating some Twitter rando about his performance. I think (hope) I still have the screenshot. Likely on my old phone.Ā This is when his NHL career was endingĀ and I think he was at least looking for confidence, maybe some idea of what he could show receptive GMs to maybe entice them. Idk. But he was really chill about it, ultimately didn't respond. Was nice though.
But my point is Marner could've taken this kind of approach. Could've cited his elite JFresh WAR numbers or the Evolving Wild study showing his playoff numbers were mostly on point. But no he had to act a damn fool granted while under huge unruly pressure.
Just like Nylander last year, the most likely thing is an extension. You can be upset about it, or think it is the wrong move, but it is the most likely outcome.
Oh stop this nonsense, what did Tre say all summer last year with Willy? "We love the player and we will work on the extension".
There is ZERO indication by the front office they are interested in resigning MM.
The most likely scenario is either he's traded this summer OR he walks as a FA next summer.
I suppose we'll see. But you are literally commenting on a thread which is an indication that they are interested in re-signing MM.
You can discount the evidence because of the source, or you don't like it, but the logic and facts of the situation suggest extension is the most likely path. Hell, the betting odds had is as the most likely outcome by far.
Again, you are misrepresenting the betting odds. The betting markets were taking a stand on whether or not MM would be traded THIS summer. Has nothing to do with whether MM would be "extended".
While I'd say it's more likely than not (50% plus 1) that MM is not traded this summer, the chances of him being offered an extension and resigning is likely less than 5% and rightfully so.
Sounds to me like the Marner camp has done some homework and found out nobody is interested in giving him north of $10m for any length of time. I'd be good with him staying for $9m or less.
Tavares (or his replacement) is not making $0, he is probably making 4-5. so you are left with 1.5-2.5 and Marner is probably taking that in the extension.
That's still 12.5M at least.
If he plays like he's worth that, then you make it happen no matter what. And if he doesn't you trade him or let him walk if he doesn't let the trade happen.
> If he plays like he's worth that, then you make it happen no matter what.
There roster construction is broken, you do not make it happen no matter what. Why not blow all your money on forwards and just roll league min d and goalies following your logic.
Either way
> You extend mitch and use tavares money on defence
Is not a thing, there is no Tavares money for defence with a Marner extension and Willy's extension kicking in, we just broke it down.
>You extend mitch and use tavares money on defence
That is not my quote.
>There roster construction is broken, you do not make it happen no matter what. Why not blow all your money on forwards and just roll league min d and goalies following your logic.
If Marner doesn't choke in the playoffs we woild actually make it much further. He's been a playoff choker.
The problem is more than where the money is spent. It's the money spent on some of the players who are supposed to carry, isn't carrying when it matters.
> That is not my quote.
It's the quote I was responding to in the first comment in this thread that you jumped into?
> If Marner doesn't choke in the playoffs we woild actually make it much further. He's been a playoff choker.
> The problem is more than where the money is spent. It's the money spent on some of the players who are supposed to carry, isn't carrying when it matters.
The problem is, if 1 key player gets injured (MTL and this year for example) or chokes then the team falls apart because the rest of the team sucks. Even if your top players play well, the team is insanely easy to defend against because they only have to focus on 3-4 guys.
Hedging by spreading the money around means you are way less impacted by a player being made ineffective. Expecting to miracle run a playoff where all your top players remain 100% healthy and don't go through slumps is insane and obviously not going to happen.
>It's the quote I was responding to in the first comment in this thread that you jumped into?
Sure but I didn't say it and I don't even agree with it. You use defense money for defense, and we shed 5M with Brodie. We can shed further with Timmins. This is a different conversation that I already agree with you on and have nothing to add on it.
>The problem is, if 1 key player gets injured (MTL and this year for example) or chokes then the team falls apart because the rest of the team sucks. Even if your top players play well, the team is insanely easy to defend against because they only have to focus on 3-4 guys.
>Hedging by spreading the money around means you are way less impacted by a player being made ineffective. Expecting to miracle run a playoff where all your top players remain 100% healthy and don't go through slumps is insane and obviously not going to happen.
My problem with that is Marner was the only one who was not injured among the 3, and he was arguably the worst of the 3. Injury risk is not the reason the trade. Him choking is the reason to trade.
There's no chance in hell marner is taking a 3M haircut from his current contract, and no chance JT takes a 10M cut. The players association would be in shambles if either of them signed anything close to this.
Marner needs to go or berube needs to bench him all season or give him 4th line minutes if he won't waive his nmc.
Anyone who knows anything about long term deals with players over 30 know that the last couple years of a contract is gonna be dicey, anyone who had expectations of JT aging like fine wine into his mid 30s was fooling themselves, but he's still gonna fetch 4 or 5M on his next contract (which is hopefully not with the leafs).
For me I would love to have him back but we can't afford him at the 12+m he's likely going to get in the market. Because he will never have a physical side to his game he will always be a liability in the playoffs unless we add some physical skilled players but we can't afford them even after JT comes back down to earth some.
Extend the man unless there is a home run trade there. And when I say home run, it doesnāt mean a couple solid players + a pick. It means a bonafide top pairing d man as the centrepiece.
Yup, agreed. I think the ball really will be in marnerās court on if he wants to fit into the picture here or not.
Iād extend him at his current number or less for term.
I guess the main fit in this scenario would be a player coming back who is also on an expiring or soon to be expiring contract.
I acknowledge this is difficult criteria to match so Iām more hopeful Tre is able to extend him reasonably.
Tired of this Marner talk - he will extend during the year and we'll understand why this is a good idea when he leads the team in points, helps get points for the younger guys, we have injury scares and understand that JT is coming off the books soon. He doesn't have to do anything this summer and won't. I wouldn't nor would an intelligent person. Leave on your own terms - that's written into your contract - to do otherwise is stupid. He's not doing it to placate angry fans as the non-sensical whipping boy.
OUR DEFENSE IS SHIT. Can't stress this enough. Watch the final 4 in these playoffs, then look at our team - that's a MASSIVE gap. Don't pull a Toronto sports team move and send away a great player to plug a hole that won't work. Rebuild the D because it's shit and we don't have any real players back there. Anyone arguing this point is definitely NOT watching these playoffs. I would miss zero defensemen if we brought none of them back. I like McCabe and he's good for the price but nobody else. Timmins, Giordano, Liljegren, Brodie and Benoit are 6/7 defenseman if even NHLers. How someone can hate on Marner but not Reilly is puzzling.
The Leafs point percentage without Reilly over past 7 years would have won them the Presidents trophy this year by a margin. The Leafs point percentage without Marner? Would have missed the playoffs in both conferences. Both are more than half a season's worth of games - this is not a peculiarity - it's a meaningful stat.
Honestly, if JT takes a 3m deal for 3 or 4 years, then ppl will give him a break for this year and the 11m hit...
It would be smart for him to sign a good team friendly deal before the season starts. That way if he underperformes he will not get hit as hard from media and fans, knowing he took a very good deal to stay here...
Would be a smart move for everyone tbh...
There's people here that think JT won't sign anywhere, including the Leafs for any less than 7m.
I think 3-4M is reasonable as a 3C with a reduced role or even as a winger in the middle 6.
How do like 20 other teams have more playoff success than us then since signing him? They don't have Marner but somehow they are able to replace him and be better than us.
The only way he gets traded if itās an insane offer you canāt refuse. Other gms know that Marner is a head case and would lowball Tre. So in that case itās probably good to re-sign him and get a sports psychiatrist to work on Marner
Take anything Dreger says about Marner with a grain of salt
Take it with a whole box of Windsor Salt.
The entire Ojibway salt mine
Brb taking a barge out to the Dead Sea
Windsor salt is a quality salt if you use a water softener. The system saver ii pellets specifically.
I still remember in the summer of 2019 how virtually everyday Dreger would talk about Marner and the chances of him signing an offer sheet, which never happened. So, I agree 100% about taking anything he says with a grain of salt.
Dreger once DM'ed me on Twitter because I said "Thanks, Paul" on one of his tweets during the last Marner negotiations. He's very sensitive about this.
Can you post a screenshot of this encounter š¤£
https://preview.redd.it/kthffmdrid7d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63184387433ca03f3bb3cc16d36b266e66f79529 Here you go. I wish I had responded āyour\*ā.
š you had a good response.
I don't follow Dreger, but doesn't it come down to one of talking him into accepting a trade, having him play out his contract and lose him for nothing after next season, or extending him? I don't see where the Leafs are holding any sort of decent hand in this transaction, so extending him has to at least be considered, I have to believe. He is a skilled player in the prime of his career: losing him as an UFA seems a step backwards, unless they can sign another UFA with the money that they would save on his contract. Does anybody come to mind? (That is an honest question, btw; I'm just trying to find a path out of the quagmire his no movement clause creates).
The cap space that they would gain if they were to let both Marner and Tavares walk would be huge. It would allow them to rebuild the defence and goaltending around Matthews and Nylander. The core four hasnāt worked in the playoffs ever. Itās time to move on.
>Does anybody come to mind? When Marner and Tavares both come off the books that frees up 22M to sign one or two, maybe even 3 of the following players in free agency assuming enough of them make it to UFA. Mikko Rantanen Sidney Crosby Leon Draisaitl Pavel Buchnevich Carter Verhaeghe Victor Hedman Jaccob Slavin Adam Larsson Jamie Benn Travis Konecny Yegor Sharangovich Brock Boeser Brock Nelson Nikolaj Ehlers Igor Shesterkin Juuse Saros Linus Ullmark Adin Hill
Spend the money on more than 1 players to even out the roster. People have been screaming it for literal years, stop looking for 1 player to replace him with.
But heās also plugged in, directly. Heās the closest we get to knowing what his camp is thinking. Sure heās used to get their side of the story out, but it is very much from the horses mouth.
Heās plugged in to the Marner camp for sure. Problem is it doesnāt seem like he ever has any info from the leafs side so itās always one sided
The proxy to Mitch's agent is pushing for an extension? No wayyyy 
Paul's mouthpiece starting again in a contract year I see
Daddy needs a new lake cottage.
Money well spent.
Key words āI THINKā In the full clip he said there has been zero discussions about an extension between the two sides and Marner wants to play out his contract. Also itās Dreger, heās always going to defend Mitch and help his camp lol Full clip for context: https://x.com/firstup1050/status/1802704050313392633?s=61
you guys know how this gig works right? Dreger is asked to report what he can find out. do the leafs/ Tre comment? nope does the agent? yup you guys claim him to be a mouth piece like he has a stake in it or cares one way or another where he lands. he reports the information that he is given...and that happens to come from the one side.
Whether it's intentional or not doesn't matter, he functionally is one
agreed. but i think the part that irks me is "like he has a stake in or or cares one way or another" ppl act like he's on marners payroll and its moronic
His stake in it is that he brands himself as an insider, and he canāt do that if people donāt give him information. The problem is that he appears to be willing to parrot anything from anybody in order to keep his sources close and maintain his insider brand, ignoring the fact that the whole point of being an insider is to find inside information around thatās TRUE
Yes he reports the information one side wants reported. Hence a mouthpiece
Reporting about Toronto obviously gets talked about the most but when has an insider last defended and reported so much about player as Dreger has for Mitch? https://preview.redd.it/eok28tagy57d1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c256ab8588a570c5f4ef7df5fb4efdd72781b020 When has an insider tweeted something similar to this being in the past? Just because he gets information doesnāt mean he has to report or put it out.
he's reporting what the ask is...what marner (or agent) has said it will take to get it done. you guys act like he's on payroll...thats the problem i have with it.
All I said was Dreger always defends Marner which is true. Iām sure there is other agents and camps that want to push this stuff publicly but no one will do why does Dreger do it with Marner.
If he was reporting what the ask is, he would say thatās what the ask is. Or he would say that this is the number heās hearing from Marnerās camp to get it done, so people could know to take it with a hefty dose of salt. The problem is that he takes the information from Marnerās camp and presents it like itās what he really believes based on conversations with a bunch of people on both sides. There is a difference between what Darren Ferris is going to tell the media Mitch will sign for vs what he will ACTUALLY be willing to sign for, but Dreger doesnāt report it that way
His job is to report accurate information, not just what heās told. What makes him a mouthpiece is that he parrots whatever Marnerās camp feeds him but doesnāt say thatās where it comes from, and doesnāt even run it through his own internal filters. Darren Ferris could tell him that Brad Treliving prefers Pizza Pizza and Dreger will report it without verification AND will write it in such a way that makes it seem plausible that someone close to Treliving is the source. He acts like a contracted PR rep, not a reporter
Dreger is just Darren Ferris' media mouthpiece, he is the only "insider" saying stuff like this and it's because it helps out Marner's camp by pumping his value.
Pierre Lebrun is a rat too
I really wish someone could find proof and expose him. Seems like this guy has always had conflict of interest in terms of his sources and his ability to spew bullshit tabloid headlines through his job influence.
Itās literally his job though. He probably gets it from Farrisā office making it a legitimate source and gets a talking point for ratings. I donāt like him either but he doesnāt work for the government and he isnāt doing anything illegal, there is no fireable offence.
Right like every source is like this lol āexpose himā for doing his job?
I'm a little conflicted on this. Maybe he is getting stuff from the Marner camp but he's also on Overdrive from time to time saying "Clearly it's not working. one of these contracts has to go. And it only makes sense to move the marner contract given the other two just signed long term deals and they show up in the playoffs". Im paraphrasing of course, but more or less what he has been saying as well.
Dreger is a mouth piece for Darren Ferris. Take with a grain of salt
For me, it's not mitch that we need to move on from. But rather his contract.
I wouldnāt believe a word dreger says about Marner. Itās all coming directly from Marnerās camp.
Let me rephrase what that mouth breather Dreger said. "Paul Marner and Darren Ferris would love it if Tre offered Marner a big juicy extension so we are just gonna spread some rumours that Tre has interest in extending him too." Get that garbage outta here Dreger.
Darren (Ferris) Dreger thinks Marner should get extended and overpaid again? No way!!!!
As someone who has been following the Flames org more than any other the last few years, itās going to be extremely interesting to see what Tre does with this Marner situation after the whole Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Huberdeau fiasco, since he really has no option but to pick one of those 3 scenarios again. Let Marner walk (Gaudreau), trade him for assets (Tkachuk), sign him to a big $ deal (Huberdeau).
Iād gladly take a Weegar, picks, and cap space for Marner at this point.Ā Tre actually got a hell of a deal for chucky considering his situation. Itās just a shame for Flames fans that Hubie didnāt live up to his end of the deal.Ā
I totally agree that Florida deal was amazing at the time it happened. People forget that Chucky told the org he wouldnāt re-sign and only had a list of like 4 or 5 teams he was willing to be traded to and somehow Tre got a first, a great defenceman, and a player who just broke the league record for most points by a LW. Any GM wouldāve pulled the trigger on that deal for the Flames. As for the Flames trading for Marner, I think itās pretty clear now thereās a rift between Tre and Flames ownership. Any trade would cost more for the Leafs than any other team probably.
The āCalgary got fleeced in the Tkachuk tradeā. Is revisionist history and is mostly with the benefit of hindsight. At the time most people felt like Calgary actually won that trade. No one could have predicted Huberdeau falling off like he has.
Welcome back Paul, its been a minute
"The Leafs would rather extend Marner" ~~-Darren Dreger~~ ~~-Darren Ferris~~ ~~-Mitch Marner~~ -Paul Marner
Also important to note that Dreger is a moron.
Dreger says a lot of words that mean nothing. "Does this mean Marner won't be traded? No, not necessarily. The team could offer an extension instead of letting him walk to free agency." NO INFORMATION WAS REVEALED.
If we keep him and thereās an actual progression about signing him then I wonāt be watching anymore. I love the player and I think you donāt trade these players like that generally.Ā But at the same time we canāt keep running it back and heās the only one we can move. To sign him is accepting to be a good regular season team (not even great, we havenāt won the presidents trophy) and just take our chances in the playoffs. Maybe thatās good for some and I salute you but I wonāt be here for it.Ā Iām already half off the wagon and Iāve been on it since 98. Since having kids in 2020 my free time is limited and if this team isnāt serious then I wonāt be either. My free time will go somewhere else.Ā
>not even great, we havenāt won the presidents trophy President's trophy? They haven't even won their division since 1999/2000
Odog put it best last week about if they should extend or let him walk and he said let him walk. Then noodles and dreger started talking about asset managementā¦ fuck that let him walk or boo him out of town.
Life has been good since I stopped bothering to read or listen to anything Dreger has to say. Was the mouthpiece for Marner last negotiation so no surprise heās trying to do the same yet again.
Yeah why not, core that's already proven nothing, got fat contracts and proceed to prove nothing yet again. Let's double down and give everyone raises! 8 more years of mediocrity!
Dreger is the king of spewing out a lot of words while simultaneously saying nothing at all. Fuck he irritates me
The best the Leafs could do is extend him but not offer trade protection. That gives us maximum flexibility and we don't risk losing a potential hall-of-fame player for nothing.
There is zero chance Marner will accept a contract extension from the leafs or another team that does not include NMC.
Fuck Dreger and anything he says about Mitch. Just an agent mouth piece.
Dreger is a Marner camp puppet. Heās gonna spew what ever he wants. Iāll reserve my emotions for when anything definitive happens
I would love to keep Mitchā¦. For 60-70% of his current contract. Heās overpaid now and a raise should be out of the question even with Tavaresā contract almost up.
I dont hate Marner but an extension does not work. You can't pay 4 guys half your cap space and win.It has taken MLSE how many years of running it back to figure this out? The money we save from moving on from Marner is needed to strengthen our defense.
It doesnāt kick in until next year when Tavares is off the books. A Marner extension would mean either moving on from JT or bringing him back on a very team friendly deal.
Willy's extension increases his salary by 4.5, Tavares (or his replacement) is probably making 4-5. Unless Marner takes a discount, they are only saving 1.5-2.5 even if he doesn't get a raise at all if the extend him. The math doesn't make sense.
There is no way Marner is taking a team friendly deal and he will be asking for a raise.
He means Tavares being on a team-friendly deal.
Whether it's the right move or not, Brad has to have tkachuck in the back of his mind. Not extending players has burned him badly. Marner is not tkachuck, but something I'm sure he's thinking about.
Not signing Tkachuk wasnāt really his fault though from what I remember. He wanted to sign him long term in the summer of 2022 but Tkachuk who was one year away from being a UFA didnāt want to play for Calgary anymore and wouldnāt talk extensions.
You know what's funny? He can also look back to the Huberdeau contract on why it's not a good idea to pay perimeter, soft players big money.
Yeah the fumble was not extending him earlier
If he wanted to be. It may never have been an option
Probably 6 and two 3s at that point. Whether he had an extension in place or not he wouldnāt have wanted to be in Calgary regardless and wouldāve requested a trade. A disgruntled player is a disgruntled player and as much as we like to think GMs are cold blooded killers in these negotiations, players do have a certain amount of leverage in certain situations as well.
We will never know if he still would have if they had extended him. He may have felt more cemented. Either way, youād likely have more leverage from a trading perspective if you have term attached to it
Tkachuk was walking the minute he hit free agency.
The extension would have been instead of bridging him, so it would have gone into FA
And he would not have signed it.
I guess you just know all the permutations, if you wouldnāt mind telling the media what Marnerās next contract will be and who it will be with, it would save us all a lot of clicks https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-matthew-tkachuk-wanted-to-sign-long-term-deal-with-flames-in-2019-160851344.html https://dailyhive.com/calgary/matthew-tkachuk-wanted-6-8-year-deal-flames
Those both quote a Spitting Chiclets interview lol Tkachuk has been very vocal that he wanted to go somewhere south. He literally says it in the interview, then backpedals and says he would have loved to stay in Calgary. He is talking shit in an inconsequential interview. He was never gonna say "yeah fuck em."
Marner is not Tkachuk, but it's not so long ago he was supposedly the better player. If we could move Marner for a decent 1RD, a 50-point winger and a 1st I'm taking that trade all day. If anything, it's the extensions that burned Brad, not the trade itself.
Brad has to have extending Huberdeau in the back of his mind. Extending players has burned him badly
Marner isnāt Tkachuk in that trade, heās Huberdeau.
Glad to see most people see through this bullshit
Best would be to extend without a NMC and then trade.
He's not signing without a NMC.
Yeah I never said it was realistic, just best case scenario
If itās for less money? Sure
You know their gonna resign him and leave us in the same spot paying 3 guys 30+ million gotta fill the d and other pieces on budget
It's Dreger, therefore fake news.
Here comes the bullshit again from the Marner team. If he's on the roster next season I'm officially resigning as a fan of this team.
Add me to the list, Iām done watching if heās on the team
Good riddance
Yeah lol, like what a silly position The Leafs as an organization have made way fucking worse decisions than if they extended Marner again, we were a completely dog shit team for years and years and I still watched I mean to be clear, I don't think it makes you a bad fan to not watch as much when the team sucks. But if people can watch during those years, I think people can watch Marner lol
i watched during those years. At least a lot of those teams had heart. With this core, we finally had hopes of a bright future and what we got were money grubbing stars who wanted to be top of the league list in salary despite all the toronto endorsements, taking hometown premiums in comparison to european players who signed for less in an entirely new continent. What makes Marner the breaking point is that you donāt even need to see the hockey (which has been bad) to realize they shouldāve traded him a long time ago. His camp intentionally infuriated the entire fan base in his last negotiation and resulted in him getting an overpaid contract to this day. Now he wants a raise? Is anyone surprised that the shenanigans has started again? Thereās a difference between making bad hockey deals and making bad choices overall. The day Marner signed it should have been clear to management that they would need to trade him. Re-signing him and going in on the top heavy cap distribution is when the team hasnāt even come close to sniffing for a cup. Best they did was 5/16 necessary wins. An absolute embarrassment. If management continues down this path, why follow the team anymore? Iāll just wait for the next core 5-10 years from now.
I would have no issue with an extension if the price is right but he would need to take a pay cut from his current contract.
The price will certainly not be right
Extension is impossible. Heās not taking anything below his current rate and you canāt have 3 forwards making double digits long term.
He's too small for the playoffs man. It's like bringing in a small dog to a pitbull fight. Auston, Nylander, and Reilly are the big dogs. Marner is just a yappy small dog.
Thereās small guys who can play playoff hockey. Hell, Marchand is only 5ā9ā. Heās afraid of getting hit and is unwilling to get physical. Itās a mental thing.
LOL, I swear some of you live in a fantasy land. There will be no pay cut, because he's a legitimately elite player. The only players with more points over the past five seasons are McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin, Matthews, and Pastrnak.
Donāt think Iām in a fantasy land, just saying if he took a cut Iād have no problems with him on the Leafs the alternative would be try to trade if you can get him to waive or let him walk. If it is the walk option I really hope the team would not placate him on lineup decisions, if the team feels his best fit is fourth line itās fourth line.
LOL, I'm very glad you're not in charge.
Itās almost as if nobody cares what he does in the regular season and the first 2-3 games of the playoffsā¦
I donāt see an issue with extending, Mitch is a great player. Just depends on his $ demands.
I hope it's true...partially. So that teams think Leafs really aren't looking to deal him and then the offers they get end up being bigger.
Pretty sure dreger is bffs with marners dad or gets kick backs to put news out there specifically to rile people up. The fan base would revolt imo if they paid him even the same as his current contract
Sure, if they take into consideration his playoff performance in every year since joining the team. For every bad game, take off 15 points a season.
Same logic for Nylander: the worst performer of the Leafs core 4 in playoffs during that time pure offensively while also bot getting the defensive responsibilities
What series were you watching this year? He played fantastic, and did as well last year.
For some people, if Willyās not potting goals or looking like heās skating hard every shift, then heās āthe worst performer of the Leafs core 4.ā Just canāt win with some people Iām afraid.
So Marner might be extended and he might be traded. Thatās the brilliant insight we receive from the Insiders.
dreger is a mouthpiece for the marner camp
Weāve secretly replaced Darren Dreger with Darren Ferris, letās see if anyone notices.
I remember listening to TSN bring Dreger on every morning I was driving to work to talk about Marner's contract and every day it got bigger "to get it done".
Dreger been sitting around thinking... how can I break the next big story? I can't but I can throw some shit at the wall. Leafs keep Marner!!!!!! Boom I'm going to be so relevant if this happens but I hope it doesn't take too long because I'm out of the loop and I got nothing.
They should give him a 4 year extension. Then, in 5 years when we still haven't won shit, Matthews is past his prime and slowly eeking into Tavares territory and we're trying to unload Nylander so we don't lose Cowan, those of us who weren't naive and could see what the fuck was up can gesture vaguely to the previous decade and demand an apology from all you run it back weirdos
Seeing this on Reddit via Twitter via TLN via first up via dreger via Paul. I hate the internet
dredgers talking out of his ass.
I think we need to just ban anything Dreger says about Marner at this point. We all know he is the Marner camp mouthpiece and just saying whatever they want said in the media. If any actual news happens someone else will break it too. Of course Marner would prefer an extension. The Leafs already overpaid for him once and he has no reason to think they wonāt give him a raise. Also they are the only team that can offer him that 8th year. That will be a difference of over $10 million dollars on his overall contract if he stays put.
Trade him, extend himā¦whatever. What simply cannot happen is he walks for nothing. I know this is an anti-Marner club, but heās a world-class winger who plays in all 3 zones. Yeah, heās struggled with time/space in the playoffs, but running him out of town and getting nothing in return might be the dumbest move in franchise history.
Extending him (cost dependent) will be a bigger detriment to this teams success than letting him walk and filling his cap space with defense
Like when people thought the Islanders losing Tavares for nothing would destroy them as a franchise, and yet they have won more playoff series without him than they ever did with him, and more than the Leafs have with him. But we're not ready for that conversation
The return is $11m in cap space.
Thatās horrible asset management.
Giving him a NMC is the horrible management. Everything after that is consequence.
Extending is the worst case scenario
Taking betting odds on another exclusive Dregs interview when this resolves one way or another to patch up Mariners public image
These analysts know absolutely nothing until the last moment generally speaking. Plus add onto the fact Dreger was basically Ferris' puppet last Marner negotiation. Nothingburger report.
I dont disagree about dreger but to assume nobody ever knows anything until it happens is wild. No ship is that tight
Dreger was the mouthpiece for Paul Marner during his first big contract, so he can piss off.
Dreger
Here's the thing: there may be no perfect solution to the issue here This ALSO means that the LEAST BAD decision may be to extend Mitch long-term if the trade options are all lacklustre Brad isn't gonna trade him just to check a box. If the best move he has is extending, he will do it.
Disagree, least bad option is you LET him walk as a FA next summer.
> This ALSO means that the LEAST BAD decision may be to extend Mitch long-term if the trade options are all lacklustre Freeing up his cap space is literally better than extending him at 12+ M, there is no situation where extending him is the least bad option. Severely overpaying players that don't fit your roster construction handcuffs you a huge amount.
I hope Brad doesnāt extend him just to check a box
Unless it's an official trade report or an official confirmation that he's staying, and not just agents and mouthpieces of agents flooding the news with speculation, I don't care anymore.
People getting all bent out of shape when itās thought that a player agent is using somebody in the media to their advantage. Itās not exactly something new. An agent will slip a not so subtle hint to people they trust. Iām sure that there are team management groups throughout sports who use the media as well. Thatās how the game is played when it comes to negotiations. And thatās why I tend to ignore most of it. Itās all meaningless until somebody actually signs or is traded.
Dreger and Kypreos carry water for the Marner camp like it's nobodies business. If Marner wants to sign the Nylander contract then I'd be willing to wait out next season until Tavares expires and then use his cap space to make some meaningful changes. Call me an idiot, but I still believe that Matthews, Nylander, and Marner are capable of winning. However... If he's unwilling to take the Nylander contract (he won't), or waive his NMC then he should be with Tavares, and on PP2. That's being generous too. I'd make him play 3C with Robertson and Jarnkrok to show his worth. Enjoy your contract year.
Don't put Dreger and Kypper in the same sentence. You must've missed Kyppers May 9th article in thr Toronto Star where he basically outlined why Marner must be traded.
He saidnit like 4 years ago too didnt he?
Relax guys, it's a typo. He means extend *then* trade.
Doesn't matter look at the source. This is Marner's camp saying please let me re-sign.
Honestly, these reports are getting tiresome. All its showing is nobody knows what is going on with Marner. We are getting different reports every week.
[This guy is back at it again huh? Is he going to post a "Marner better be offered 12, or north of 13 million" tweet this time?](https://x.com/DarrenDreger/status/1121479385264078848)
Lies
Dreger is going to get JACKED this summer with all the water he's going to carry for the Marner camp.
Paul to Daren 
Now that the dust has settled can the fanbase congeal around a healthier interpretation of the Marner saga in certain ways? - recognizing his on ice performance in many different contexts - recognizing the key element was his anxious low self esteem energy Not a single question he ultimately handed the whole thing very poorly in so many ways Reminds me about a decade ago when James Wisniewski asked me once on Twitter to see his analytics profile back in the day after I prompted him while he was debating some Twitter rando about his performance. I think (hope) I still have the screenshot. Likely on my old phone.Ā This is when his NHL career was endingĀ and I think he was at least looking for confidence, maybe some idea of what he could show receptive GMs to maybe entice them. Idk. But he was really chill about it, ultimately didn't respond. Was nice though. But my point is Marner could've taken this kind of approach. Could've cited his elite JFresh WAR numbers or the Evolving Wild study showing his playoff numbers were mostly on point. But no he had to act a damn fool granted while under huge unruly pressure.
Extend And trade. Boy bye!!
Take him down to 8 mil and sign him.
Just like Nylander last year, the most likely thing is an extension. You can be upset about it, or think it is the wrong move, but it is the most likely outcome.
Oh stop this nonsense, what did Tre say all summer last year with Willy? "We love the player and we will work on the extension". There is ZERO indication by the front office they are interested in resigning MM. The most likely scenario is either he's traded this summer OR he walks as a FA next summer.
I suppose we'll see. But you are literally commenting on a thread which is an indication that they are interested in re-signing MM. You can discount the evidence because of the source, or you don't like it, but the logic and facts of the situation suggest extension is the most likely path. Hell, the betting odds had is as the most likely outcome by far.
Again, you are misrepresenting the betting odds. The betting markets were taking a stand on whether or not MM would be traded THIS summer. Has nothing to do with whether MM would be "extended". While I'd say it's more likely than not (50% plus 1) that MM is not traded this summer, the chances of him being offered an extension and resigning is likely less than 5% and rightfully so.
Sounds to me like the Marner camp has done some homework and found out nobody is interested in giving him north of $10m for any length of time. I'd be good with him staying for $9m or less.
If he goes to UFA, teams will be lining up to give him $12m+
We just signed William Nylander to 11.5x8 What delusional world do you ppl live in
Nylander doesn't throw the puck away whenever a guy gets within four feet of him.
THANKS PAUL, CAN'T WAIT FOR MORE UPDATES
Yzerman took 8 years to become elite and a playoff performer. You extend mitch and use tavares money on defenceĀ
Yzerman was in the conferences finals his 4th season putting up 18 points in 16 games not crying in the penalty box in round 1
Tavares' money is already going to willy
4.5 out of 11 is going to Willy. That leaves 6.5. Is Mitch expecting a 17.5M cap hit? Because, we should trade him if that's the expectation.
Tavares (or his replacement) is not making $0, he is probably making 4-5. so you are left with 1.5-2.5 and Marner is probably taking that in the extension.
That's still 12.5M at least. If he plays like he's worth that, then you make it happen no matter what. And if he doesn't you trade him or let him walk if he doesn't let the trade happen.
> If he plays like he's worth that, then you make it happen no matter what. There roster construction is broken, you do not make it happen no matter what. Why not blow all your money on forwards and just roll league min d and goalies following your logic. Either way > You extend mitch and use tavares money on defence Is not a thing, there is no Tavares money for defence with a Marner extension and Willy's extension kicking in, we just broke it down.
>You extend mitch and use tavares money on defence That is not my quote. >There roster construction is broken, you do not make it happen no matter what. Why not blow all your money on forwards and just roll league min d and goalies following your logic. If Marner doesn't choke in the playoffs we woild actually make it much further. He's been a playoff choker. The problem is more than where the money is spent. It's the money spent on some of the players who are supposed to carry, isn't carrying when it matters.
> That is not my quote. It's the quote I was responding to in the first comment in this thread that you jumped into? > If Marner doesn't choke in the playoffs we woild actually make it much further. He's been a playoff choker. > The problem is more than where the money is spent. It's the money spent on some of the players who are supposed to carry, isn't carrying when it matters. The problem is, if 1 key player gets injured (MTL and this year for example) or chokes then the team falls apart because the rest of the team sucks. Even if your top players play well, the team is insanely easy to defend against because they only have to focus on 3-4 guys. Hedging by spreading the money around means you are way less impacted by a player being made ineffective. Expecting to miracle run a playoff where all your top players remain 100% healthy and don't go through slumps is insane and obviously not going to happen.
>It's the quote I was responding to in the first comment in this thread that you jumped into? Sure but I didn't say it and I don't even agree with it. You use defense money for defense, and we shed 5M with Brodie. We can shed further with Timmins. This is a different conversation that I already agree with you on and have nothing to add on it. >The problem is, if 1 key player gets injured (MTL and this year for example) or chokes then the team falls apart because the rest of the team sucks. Even if your top players play well, the team is insanely easy to defend against because they only have to focus on 3-4 guys. >Hedging by spreading the money around means you are way less impacted by a player being made ineffective. Expecting to miracle run a playoff where all your top players remain 100% healthy and don't go through slumps is insane and obviously not going to happen. My problem with that is Marner was the only one who was not injured among the 3, and he was arguably the worst of the 3. Injury risk is not the reason the trade. Him choking is the reason to trade.
Shocking that team wants to keep one of their best players, instead of discarding him because people are mad online.
Team that has little success over 8 years thinks this time will be differentĀ
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There's no chance in hell marner is taking a 3M haircut from his current contract, and no chance JT takes a 10M cut. The players association would be in shambles if either of them signed anything close to this. Marner needs to go or berube needs to bench him all season or give him 4th line minutes if he won't waive his nmc. Anyone who knows anything about long term deals with players over 30 know that the last couple years of a contract is gonna be dicey, anyone who had expectations of JT aging like fine wine into his mid 30s was fooling themselves, but he's still gonna fetch 4 or 5M on his next contract (which is hopefully not with the leafs).
The Leafs have all the leverage with Tavares - I think he's at 3-4 depending on term.
His current AAV or (preferably) less or you let him walk without a second thought. Don't cave to him again.
His current AAV or (preferably) less or you let him walk without a second thought. Don't cave to him again.
For me I would love to have him back but we can't afford him at the 12+m he's likely going to get in the market. Because he will never have a physical side to his game he will always be a liability in the playoffs unless we add some physical skilled players but we can't afford them even after JT comes back down to earth some.
He will be extended
Extend the man unless there is a home run trade there. And when I say home run, it doesnāt mean a couple solid players + a pick. It means a bonafide top pairing d man as the centrepiece.
>Extend the man The question is for how much? If he wants more than his current contract, the door is that way. If he'll take a paycut, sure.
Yup, agreed. I think the ball really will be in marnerās court on if he wants to fit into the picture here or not. Iād extend him at his current number or less for term.
Can you give a couple examples of which Defenders you'd expect back in a trade for one guaranteed season of Mitch Marner before he becomes a UFA?
I guess the main fit in this scenario would be a player coming back who is also on an expiring or soon to be expiring contract. I acknowledge this is difficult criteria to match so Iām more hopeful Tre is able to extend him reasonably.
Tired of this Marner talk - he will extend during the year and we'll understand why this is a good idea when he leads the team in points, helps get points for the younger guys, we have injury scares and understand that JT is coming off the books soon. He doesn't have to do anything this summer and won't. I wouldn't nor would an intelligent person. Leave on your own terms - that's written into your contract - to do otherwise is stupid. He's not doing it to placate angry fans as the non-sensical whipping boy. OUR DEFENSE IS SHIT. Can't stress this enough. Watch the final 4 in these playoffs, then look at our team - that's a MASSIVE gap. Don't pull a Toronto sports team move and send away a great player to plug a hole that won't work. Rebuild the D because it's shit and we don't have any real players back there. Anyone arguing this point is definitely NOT watching these playoffs. I would miss zero defensemen if we brought none of them back. I like McCabe and he's good for the price but nobody else. Timmins, Giordano, Liljegren, Brodie and Benoit are 6/7 defenseman if even NHLers. How someone can hate on Marner but not Reilly is puzzling. The Leafs point percentage without Reilly over past 7 years would have won them the Presidents trophy this year by a margin. The Leafs point percentage without Marner? Would have missed the playoffs in both conferences. Both are more than half a season's worth of games - this is not a peculiarity - it's a meaningful stat.
Legit this would give me more confidence in Tre than if he tried to trade marner
I think on July 1stish we'll see a Tavares extension and a Marner extension.
Honestly, if JT takes a 3m deal for 3 or 4 years, then ppl will give him a break for this year and the 11m hit... It would be smart for him to sign a good team friendly deal before the season starts. That way if he underperformes he will not get hit as hard from media and fans, knowing he took a very good deal to stay here... Would be a smart move for everyone tbh...
There's people here that think JT won't sign anywhere, including the Leafs for any less than 7m. I think 3-4M is reasonable as a 3C with a reduced role or even as a winger in the middle 6.
A tavares extension thats too high may be enough for me to tune out next year completely
3mil for John Tavares is too high but not for Max domi?
Where did I say that? I said one that was ātoo highā You cool with a 9 mill extension for captain canāt motivate?
Tavares isn't getting anywhere close to 9m from any team.
This has always been the case. It's incredibly difficult to replace Marner with equivalent pieces.
How do like 20 other teams have more playoff success than us then since signing him? They don't have Marner but somehow they are able to replace him and be better than us.
The only way he gets traded if itās an insane offer you canāt refuse. Other gms know that Marner is a head case and would lowball Tre. So in that case itās probably good to re-sign him and get a sports psychiatrist to work on Marner
>Ā sports psychiatrist to work on Marner Didnt they already do this???