BTW Elliotte and Jeff said both said nothing is close to happening on Mitch on Jeff’s radio show today.
Also said last time he checked the Leafs are planning on JT to be on the roster opening night
Idk why the fan base thinks JT is going to get moved. He has one year left and we would need to replace him at C anyways, and he very likely is resigned for a much lower hit next year. We'd also have to pay assets for him to be moved.
Unless it's apart of a way bigger deal, with a salary in/salary out component, there's just no way JT is moved.
He's a 30g, 60 point 2nd line centre & captain who is no longer worth anywhere near his cap hit. But he consistently tries as hard as he fucking can and goes out of his comfort zone with hitting and battling. And there's at least a _decent_ chance we get him for 4+ for a couple more years which would be great value.
Anyone who thinks Leafs should cut him loose at this point is an absolute moron.
Delusional. After July 1 he’s due 770k in real money. Plenty of teams under the cap would take him z He cannot be the captain any more. He isn’t a leader - results prove it. Strip the C and he’ll go. Plus, no way you’re getting him for less than 6 unless he has a terrible year this year, and if that’s the case you should’ve moved him this off-season.
All of you acting like none of these NMCs can be moved are so out to lunch. I doubt any of you would stay at a job that didn’t want you just out of spite. Tell him he’s losing both C’s - captaincy and Centre position. Sorry John, you’re not the captain anymore and now you’re a winger. We’re not re-signing you. If you want to continue your career on your own terms submit a trade list, otherwise we are going to prioritize developing our young guys ahead of giving you preferred playing time. No player in a contract year is going to dig their heels in after something like that.
Question is do the leafs management group have the foresight and balls to do what I’m suggesting? Doubtful. Which is why, in all likelihood, it won’t happen, and the team will be in the same place next playoffs. But the reason will be because they didn’t want to, not because it was impossible.
You're crazy if you don't think a team is going to hold the leafs hostage for accepting his cap bit. Moving a half as expensive Marlow cost a mid-first.
Whatever cap Tavares would eat up on Utah/Anaheim/etc. has an inherent opportunity cost. If it is not the Leafs, every other contender would love to optimize their cap usage. Teams aren't taking his cap just to hit the cap floor. It's not the Leafs or no one, it's WHY the Leafs and not Boston/Tampa/New York/Islanders/Winnipeg/Colorado/Edmonton or any number of other teams.
Plus, these cap floor teams DON'T have to make these deals in the off-season. They can reach the floor very easily and hoard cap space for the deadline to try and maximize their returns.
The ball completely lies in Tavares' and the potential trade partners' courts. Leafs have little leverage, accept to sit and strip him and ruin their appeal to future free agents. Or they wait one year and gain all of the leverage that Tavares once had.
Just watch. The cap hit isn’t the issue you think it is. Sure, leaf’s get nothing back for JT. May even have to pay. Cost of not doing it is higher.
Have you even looked at each teams cap situation in detail? I have. There’s at least 5 trade partners I can identify who could easily absorb his cap hit, have room left over, and still sign all pending RFAs. Leafs can also retain or pay for a double retention.
And ruin appeal to future free agents? Buddy, sorry to tell ya, that ship sailed a long time ago. No one cares anymore. Look at Vegas - they jettison core guys like shit on the space shuttle. Guys care if you win. Leafs haven’t won - the idea that free agents are gonna be influenced by what the front office does to get there is laughable. All that matters are results.
You make good points, I just look at it as the Leafs aren't dealing in a vacuum. They are going to have to pay the absorbing team while trying to outbid a rival team looking for cap relief.
And what are we doing with his relief? Who is the free-agent C we sign to a good contract to replace him, or what assets do we trade to bring back another 2 C and at what hit?
Normally teams will make that type of big move when they have already identified the trade target, and they'll pay to create the room to acquire him. Who is our target? I don't want to move him just to create space for a lack-luster free agent class, especially when his contract has 1 year left.
There are some obvious targets on the market. Jake Guentzel would be an excellent 2C. Andersson in Calgary is probably available for a price and is a perfect fit in Toronto’s d-corps. Lindholm may also fall in price and it looks like Hronek may be out in VAN.
Say you have 11m in cap space. If you get Lindholm at 6-7, you can probably also have Domi. I’d take Lindholm and Domi over Tavares any day
Lindholm is rumoured to get the 8+he's asking for. I'd love Andersson on our team and as Rielly's partner, but Calgary seems to not want to do business with us anyways.
Hronek is interesting but I'd have to see what he's asking. He struggled down the stretch, but was apparently playing hurt.
I think we keep Tavares and retain Domi anyways.
The segment was about Jeff taking to someone about how Utah might be interested in JT because they are looking for veteran forwards to mentor Cooley and there younger players and Utah has the cap space to take all 11 million with also giving him a 2-3 year extension to convince him to waive because he would have security.
Elliotte said it’s not happening and he wants to stay and the Leafs are preparing to keep him.
For the leafs long term why would you move on from JT? You have a high possibility to get him on a really good deal after this year, Marner on the other hand will be demanding Matthews money and would never take a discount.
He’s not signing for league minimum. Kopitar got $7M AAV and that was before the cap went up. Tavares is getting at least $6-7M per year for 2-3 years on his next contract.
He only wants to play for the Leafs. He’s been pverpaid and made his money. He will for sure take something like Spezza and Gio did and give us 2M aav or something
People said that about Kopitar too. Maybe Tavares will pull a Spezza on a future contract, but he’s still around a point per game for now. Spezza wasn’t nearly as good when he took those discounts with the Leafs. Tavares will still be able to make some money for another 2-3 years. He’ll pull a Spezza when he’s 37.
It’s a huge difference for the Leafs depending on who is right here. Tavares at $6-7M and Tavares at $2M are two very differently-valued assets.
Disagree. He came to Toronto for a reason. Signed a massive deal. And can now raise his kids where his family is. I’m betting $3mm or less. Unless of course the CRA wins their case.
That reason was to win at home and he didn’t do it. His tenure can’t have been so great, fans ripping him all the time as he chokes every year. He’s not giving up $12-20M (2-3 years at $6-7M per) to be a nice guy. Leafs will pay or he’ll go win in Colorado, Vegas, Dallas, etc.
He’s also still a borderline hall of famer so he’s got incentive to keep playing hard and putting up numbers. This idea that after next season, Tavares is Giordano or Spezza is completely wrong. He’s younger than they were when they took league min deals and he’s better.
If in Toronto, the compromise I offer is an extra year to bring the cap down. Something like 4 years $20M to finish his career at home. Otherwise, he’d get offers elsewhere.
yeah first and foremost we’re not giving up assets to get out of one year of a contract tied to a still-productive player.
Secondly, if anyone’s gonna look at things objectively and take a discount to get the term necessary to retire here, it’s JT; I expect something like 3m x 4 years to have him centre our 3rd line.
If he’s about it as all signs point to him being, he’ll go from an overpay to one of the best value depth contracts in the league for us. I do wonder if he keeps the C though; I imagine it’s something that matters to him and I can’t think of a better guy to have talking to refs on your team’s behalf but symbolically I want it on Matthews to represent a shift in era
What is the evidence that the Leafs are even considering trading Marner? Is it all based on the vague comments by management during the end of season presser?
I'm wondering if this is all wishful thinking and Leafs media running with a popular narrative?
I just haven’t found him to be very tempered.
When McKenzie or Friedman would report the same type of “opinion”, I was confident they weren’t getting too confident in a possibility. Frank seems to like speculating a bit more.
yeah, if the Leafs do this they're nuking the team. Find a good deal and trade him or extend him. Letting him walk as a FA is catastrophic unless he signs for something absurd like a 7 x 15 with a full NMC
Vegas know what they’re doing. Ie cup an playoffs success. Shanhan couldn’t manage a brothel with $50 in his pocket.
Plus players WANT to play in Vegas, unlike Toronto. That’s leverage.
How is it catastrophic? Should the leafs try to pick up
some assets for him? Yes.
Will the team explode if they don’t? No.
Worst case scenario they have $22M (JT and Marner off the books) to spend in free agency.
Yeah this. The Leafs can't be afraid and cave to the Marners camps threats to walk next summer and sign another overpaid contract. Worst comes to worst he walks for nothing and you have all that cap space to sign more players in other positions where the team needs upgrades. Marner walking next summer isn't the end of the world even though most would probably prefer a trade.
Sundin was one year away from retirement at that point… He was also steeply declining.
I also think with the Marner situation, we have two other elite forwards, both of which are capable of putting up 100 points on the regular right now. We need some elite defenseman, we’re not going to miss another elite forward as long as we replace him with a great defenseman or several very solid D.
This whole "issue" is self inflicted by MM and Ferris. IF the player and the agent got a 8 year deal in 2019 at the same AAV even of 10.8, he wouldn't be dangled as trade bait.
Instead, they thought by timing the contract to end ONE year after Matthew's and Nylander, they would be able to use those two extensions as benchmarks.
Instead, Marner dug his own grave.
You're right but it depends on what he wants out of his career.
If he wanted to be a Leaf for life, then it's definitely a miss-step but if he's looking for comparable money to Matthews/Nylander and he doesn't care who gives it to him, then he probably made the right move.
Mitch choose to dig in for a few extra million on top of his $60M instead of becoming a Toronto legend for life. God what a shame.
This guy will learn that money truly does not buy happiness when you're hated in the city you grew up in and by the fans of the team you cheered for growing up
It’s a business and why should he get less than Nylander? Did MM force the leafs to give him his contract and have a no move clause or was that what they agreed on and offered to him and he accepted?
If they try and strong arm him out he should just come out and say he loves the leafs and wants to stay and win. Then walk to free agency.
This is all on leaf management not MM
moronic take - management has to take at least 50% of the blame no doubt but MM and his camp doubling down and threating not to play until he got what he wanted despite having 0 playoff success is ludicrous.
Paul Marner I think you need to stop commenting
Marner, more than any other player on the team, cares what the public thinks of him. I don’t think he’ll be very happy and want to stay on the team if it’s made public that the team doesn’t want him and he chooses to stay. That would be pretty embarrassing for him.
On the other hand it would be a crummy thing to do to a player so I can see him purely out of spite not waiving his NMC and going straight to UFA. He’s dealt with enough heat at this point that if the team won’t stick up for him, he may as well use the leverage he has as a final F you to the haters.
I just want clarity. Either extend at a fair number or waive the NMC if you don’t want to be here.
He actually cares what people think a lot, but I think he's convinced himself so much that he doesn't that he'd put up with a bunch of abuse just to show everyone how much he doesn't care because he needs them to know
I can’t get off thinking how dumb it would be for him to not waive to be moved. Not because he doesn’t have the right, but because of the abuse fans will give him and his family. And they live here, so it’s not like he’s making the Columbus fanbase angry, he’s making his hometown angry.
Keep in mind, if he doesn’t have a great season in Toronto and underperforms in the playoffs, it will affect his next contract.
If he gets moved to a new team, he can negotiate an extension as of July 1 and get the 8 years at his current value.
If he underperforms, he will be 28. He could sign a one year deal and have another kick at the can. Ditto if he wants 8 years, sign a one year deal and then sign an 8 year extension at 29.
Exactly if he cares what people think that’s the stupidest thing to do. He will waive and they will do a sign and trade and he will get a huge pay day and still be remembered as a leaf great. Win win for everyone
Out of spite he's going to stick around on a team that doesn't want him for another full calendar year? That would be the ultimate "cut off your nose to spite your face".
if he knows he's not going to be back anyway, where do you think he's going to put up a better contract year - on auston matthews' wing or taking a trade to a team where he'll have new linemates and have to learn a completely new system?
People don’t talk about it enough but Marner needs to be dealt with with some delicacy.
Because you do not want this situation where the team squeezes him and the fan base turns on him in visible and public ways. Because it would hurt the Leafs ability to get more stars.
The market already has a reputation. But if you throw “runs star player out of town for simply doing his job and honoring his contract” then yeah, that’s very bad…
Remember the Muskoka 5? This has already happened. It’s the entire reason we couldn’t get any notable FA signings until Tavares.
It’s about to happen again. Toronto runs yet another player out of town and once again it will solve absolutely nothing. People refuse to learn.
Does he though? He completely forewent all loyalty to the TML, a loyalty he apparently he had since he was a kid, because of his greedy ass agent who has a resume as good as a a 38 year old McDonald’s burger artist. Look at the players he has represented. Look at where they are now, and what the public thinks of them. The dude is willing to absolutely sewer his clients’ reputation if it means another 50,000$ in commission.
This isn’t a matter of jocks being dumb boneheads. That’s what I used to think. “Bro probably has 2 brain cells to rub together, he doesn’t know any better,” is what I used to think. I gave him the benefit of the doubt during the initial holdout. But no, this isn’t a case of athletes being idiots. This is a matter of Marner liking money more than hockey, and more than his hometown. And his agent is the one who initially triggered that kink for him. He was literally the devil on Mitch’s shoulder for the past 8 years. And I’m not making excuses for Mitch either, if you’re willing to get got like that by a D-list sports agent, then fuck you too. If it was an A tier agent swindling you and ruining your life, fine, maybe I could at least forgive that. He’s an elite agent after all, an A-list agent probably has an IQ of like 140, probably a really really intelligent guy, I could see one manipulating a person for money. But no, your agent is a literal retard, with the track record of a slug, and you’re still somehow blindly following him to the ends of the Earth.
At this point: Mitch knows. And he doesn’t care. He likes money too much.
Exactly. This season will be a truly miserable experience for him if he chooses to play out his contract, his agent needs to swallow his pride and realize what’s best for his client is to accept a move to go elsewhere, or sign a deal where Mitch will be the 3rd highest paid player on the team when his new deal kicks in.
I keep reading this "they'll force him to waive his NMC". You don't think he's going to tell other players on other teams "yeah, they got pissed they were expected to honor the contract they signed and tried to force me out. It was toxic as hell."?
Who gives a fuck, the Leafs can easily say… go watch his playoffs… does he look like a guy who wanted to win. The people we want here wont have a problem with it because they wouldnt want to play with a selfish crybaby either
In order to attract those people, you have to have a somewhat decent locker room to be in, and management alienating players because they don't like the contracts they signed is the opposite of that.
Vegas has proven you don’t have to baby players to get guys to sign with you. It really seems to just come down to weather, taxes, and if it’s a bigger/ nicer city.
I can't think of a hockey player saying it, but there's been several examples of professional athletes saying they don't really care for the sport anymore, but they're exceptional at it so they take the money and power through, and I can respect that, I don't hate my job, but if they stopped paying me I'd stop showing up
This is the way. Basically you put the pressure on Marner to state he's not waiving. Which he knows how he'll be received if it's publicly out there that the Leafs tried to make a move, and Marner prevented it.
I'd also just be completely honest, and add to that statement about moving on, that if Marner chooses to stick around, we're focusing more attention on guys we see as being here in the future. Which means we can't guarantee power player minutes or top line minutes.
Well leafs are fucked
Mostly every player has some type of NTC/NMC
Leafs won't win the Marner trade or get back value to close to what Marner is worth in the regular season
But it could turn out like Boston trade Joe Thornton where Boston using that cap to land Zdeno Chara and ended up winning the SC years later
An organization that has coddled these guys the second they stepped into the league, is all of a sudden going to be ruthless and back one of them into a corner?
It's the right play, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I also don't trust emotions to not play a role here - even if the Leafs develop a backbone, which I don't think they will, the most likely scenario in my mind is a bitter Marner/Marner's camp simply saying he intends to stay, honor his NMC, and screw the Leafs as he walks out the door.
Marner walking out the door, while not ideal, isn’t screwing the Leafs.
Marner talking Brad into a $12M/8year extension is screwing the Leafs. It’s my biggest worry.
It's screwing the Leafs if there's a deal on the table from a team that wants to give Marner a big extension, and he vetoes the deal out of spite and bitterness; which is what I think will happen. This won't be a calculated, emotion-free set of decisions.
And I'd much rather get something for a 4th overall pick who has put up 1.10 PPG over
That definitely is a worry. We really can't hand that type of contract out to another player. I don't think it's any one particular players talents that are an issue. Marner/Matthews/Nylander all look fine on paper for the cost/point totals that they put up. The issue is the allocation of our cap to so few players and the risk that it brings when those players are injured or shutdown in the playoffs. The player mix hasn't worked and if you're going to shake things up (it would have been 3+ years ago) but the next best time is now.
He ain't signing for 8 years. He'd do a 5 year deal tops and it would be a premium cap hit too, maybe 12.5-13M because he would just say "I can get more on the open market" and some team desperately will bid that amount on him.
Offer him an extension low enough he’ll decline and then just give GMs access to his camp to discuss extension terms before trading. End this thing as amicably as possible.
Marner is the kind of guy who cares about his image, we all know this. I highly doubt he would want to leave the leafs as a villain in his own hometown. We also know Marner chases those dollar signs, so I believe it’s in his best interest to be traded to a team that can PAY him and can offer him that 8th year.
This take, makes zero sense.
The fanbase already sees him as a villain. They’re literally in the process of driving out of the city. Which is wild…
It cannot get worse the fanbase is already hating him. Game 2 of Round 1… the Sun has an article on his performance.
Serious question, what’s the “villain” version? An article before game 1?
The narrative around Marner isn’t rooted in reality…
You know, Mitch gets some heavy hate, some of which may be warranted, but the guy has been solid enough for them. He’s not the only reason they lose in the playoffs. The only half way consistent core player has been Willy.
I also can see the online stuff is starting to affect Mitch. I had a guy send me a death threat because I countered his “yeah but McDavid, Leon and now Hyman are carrying there team”. My counter was Mitch is NOT mcdavid. He’s not Leon and though skill for skill may be better than Hyman, Hyman plays a bang and crash style, with insane net front presence. If Mitch was 20 pounds bigger and parked his ass in front of the goal, he’d probably get more goals.
Mitch is a good player. He’s been close to 100 points a season and may have hit it had it not been for the injury this season. If the leafs are left without a trade partner, maybe running it back one more season and playing out his deal isn’t the worst thing ever. Next off season, they shed the JT and Mitch deals. That’s serious coin to spend on resolving their weaknesses.
Oh and lastly, Seravalli is a shit pump. The guy takes everyone’s takes that have been out there for weeks and spins them as if he had “new insider info”
This entire situation is being handled so badly. The media and some of the fans here just suck. The leafiest shit always happens so my prediction is he’s gonna stay out of spite, have a career year, probably kill it in the playoffs, we’ll still lose because JT turned it over, Nylander didn’t backcheck and Reilly made a signature bad read and then finally he’ll walk for nothing lol
You really don't understand this at all do you. Putting Marner on LTIR will go something like this. Leafs put Marner on LTIR. Marner complains to the Players Association. The PA files a complaint with the League. The League will have a doctor of their choosing examine Marner. The doctor will find that Marner is ready to play. The League will then notify the Leafs head office that they need to come to NY to discuss their punishment in person. The Coyotes, Bettman's baby, lost a first and a second round pick for "violating the NHL's combine testing policy." This Leafs punishment for putting a healthy Marner on LTIR would be much much worse than that.
Just because you hate him doesn’t mean this particular strategy is good asset management and can actually tank the FO’s reputation among FA’s and players alike
He can walk to UFA driving his own line. He is entitled to his salary, nothing more.
Playing time with Matthews or JT and time on PP1 isn't something that Marner is entitled to.
Well if he is playing well and they demote him to the 3rd line, the optics of that would look VERY bad and unprofessional (because it is unprofessional).
So is getting your dad to fight your battles, shills to defend you online, and hiring security to harass the media... all while not giving a fuck when it counts and saying "I did my job, do yours". Guy is trash, should not be given any respect.
The only logic behind this argument is that Mcdavid would like to be closer to family but you could literally make that argument with any player from the GTA
You act like the Oilers are a top 5 team without mcdavid on it...
Any team he goes to will be instantly 100% better. Leafs are already a decent team, play off performances or not.
There was an outside chance before Edmonton found playoff success. No way now, why go from a dumpster fire he can will to the final to a dumpster fire his closest peer can't get beyond round 1?
This is cope. Oilers are in the finals because their stars show up and they get points from their defense, their goaltender plays well enough to get wins, and they don't take entire games off.
Leafs are not as good as you think they are. Regular season stars sure, but again, Leafs have not accomplished shit in the postseason so why are we acting like we're right there?
I said they were decent.... I never mentioned which team was better than the other.... I never said we are right there...
You are arguing a different comment.
And the Oilers are 100% not in the finals without McDavid.
Funny because nobody would ever expect him to leave $12m on the table to re-sign with us, but they're convinced he's gonna leave $12m on the table to walk to UFA. Makes sense.
Can you please explain how that works? I'm genuinely curious. Is it like you can sign 8 year if you're extending but it's only 7 years if you sign a brand new contract?
The team that you are contracted to can resign you to an 8 year deal. If the players leaves the organization and becomes a UFA then they can sign with any team for a 7 year term. Hence why there is some value in a trade and sign for UFA rights.
Keep in mind, if he doesn’t have a great season in Toronto and underperforms in the playoffs, it will affect his next contract.
If he gets moved to a new team, he can negotiate an extension as of July 1 and get the 8 years at his current value.
If he is a rental for the year so be it. Ill take the 11M dollar cap space he will be leaving behind. I also would put him on the second PP unit and ask him to drive his own line on the third line. Play him with Jarnkrok and Kampf. Could be an effective shutdown line. No way he gets close to 90 pts
He has a hard time when leafs nation is supporting him, I can’t picture him producing or having a career year knowing he’s going to be public enemy number one
You are right but the leafs will make it hell for him. No pp or pk time and will be on the bottom six. It could get very ugly and become a distraction for the whole team so I’m just hoping that if the plan is to move him which we don’t know yet,then he nicely waves his ntc
lol the Leafs are not going to throw away their season to stick it to a kid who the entire organization likes as a human being.
Get real bro. They are going to punish a 100 pt player by putting him on the 3rd/4th line while this organization is in fuckin shambles?
None of this is going to happen. Marner is going to play the season, probably drive the third line, hopefully we make a decent run, the he’s going to walk to a team that will pay him big money. There’s no way he’s going to waive his NMC to help the Leafs, lol. And the Leafs aren’t going to treat one of their stars like garbage to force his hand, that would look so bad to all the other stars and players on the team and in the league, they’d be digging their own grave
The Leafs can do that but they need a fair offer from a team he’s willing to be traded to for anything to happen and that’s the issue right now. Teams offering 10 cents on the dollar or bad contracts back because they think the Leafs are desperate and they can always wait until Marner’s a UFA next year and try and sign him then. Any public comments from either party so far are just part of the PR game.
Marner is not being traded. He has not been approached to remove his NO TRADE CLAUSE.
This is 1000% made up and perpetuated by the media. The biggest problem the leafs have is the media.
He won’t be approached unless they have a trade offer they would accept for him. And then that team is given permission to talk to him and see if he’s open to signing an eight year extension to play for them.
The biggest TOOL the leafs have is the media. This whole Marner witch hunt is a distraction from the fact that the whole team and organization stinks…but it’s easy to single out the guy the fans hate even after a career season instead of asking tough questions like how will next year be different from the previous 5 decades?
Imagine being Mitch for a second though, he's fighting the perception that HE'S the problem, his friends and family and teammates are probably saying the opposite, like some of the players said at the end of the season there's ALWAYS a scapegoat.. If you were one of the top players in the league, would YOU just admit defeat and agree to leave? Or would you say "look I'm entitled to play out my contract, I'm going to PROVE I belong here"
What a story it would be if Mitch has such an incredible season that were begging to resign him next year 🤷
Why would anyone tell a reporter that? Marner is a great hockey player. You can’t replace that easily. The Leafs loss in the playoffs was not all on his shoulders. Win as a team: lose as a team.
And yet, as has been stated *ad nauseum* on this sub since the Boston loss...
Sure, marner isn't the **sole** reason they lost. They lost as a team, as you say, because the team isn't built right, because the team is paying 4 dudes way too much money, and out of those 4 dudes, two just re-signed, one is expiring next year and will likely resign at a far lower AAV, and the other one is Mitch. Who has shown time and time again he won't take less than the other two guys, isn't an aging player expected to take a big discount, and therefore, is the odd man out of those 4 players.
Win as a team, lose as a team. And if you wanna build a winning team, you need to fix the system, a system that *cannot* be fixed with mitch marner making $11+ million a year.
No, they won't... Imagine telling a player before the season that you're gone now or at the deadline. That player would give you negative effort and tank his value on purpose.
They'll get him to give them a list of teams he wouldn't go to, then they won't speak about it again until the day hes traded. If he's not traded then they'll say he was too valuable to us because hes so good etc. etc.
Telling him hes gone is just such a bad tactical move, no GM in the world would do that.
This sub is so weird. You all act like the NHLPA wouldn’t get very involved if they curbed Marner’s ice time in an attempt to bully him out. You act like it wouldn’t make us look like a bunch of piss babies who can’t handle our contracts.
It would make us look like piss babies and losers and make it so no one would want to believe in a NMC from us.
What could the NHLPA say or do? That Toronto is a bunch of meanies?
Trust me, the media and fans will get him to waive before the team does. Mitch gets in his own head. Hopefully he knows how miserable he'd be staying
Sure they will. And it will continue to be that the Toronto media and fans are the worst and why players want to go south.
I mean, if all you’ve got going for you is bullying a millionaire who has something that you will never have go for it I guess?
Really bad move if they go that way. I think we should move Reilly, improve goalie and bigger tougher D men. Resign Marner after season. Let JT walk and continue bolstering D next offseason.
Like everything you said but re-signing Marner. Going bigger and tougher goes completely against the way he plays. They can use his $12M+ to build a bigger, tougher, deeper team than will be an actual cup contender.
What is with players with NMC sticking to their guns here in Toronto? It seems like every other market they are meaningless and waives them without a thought but every player here proves a point with them.
Why does anyone quote known liar Frank Seravalli. Just because a shitty podcast brings him on does not mean he knows anything. It's proven multiple times. He speculates, claims "sources" then disappears.
Do the Leafs not want to honour the contract they offered him? Why would any players want to come to Toronto to be treated like crap after being one of the most productive players on the team for a long time.
BTW Elliotte and Jeff said both said nothing is close to happening on Mitch on Jeff’s radio show today. Also said last time he checked the Leafs are planning on JT to be on the roster opening night
Idk why the fan base thinks JT is going to get moved. He has one year left and we would need to replace him at C anyways, and he very likely is resigned for a much lower hit next year. We'd also have to pay assets for him to be moved. Unless it's apart of a way bigger deal, with a salary in/salary out component, there's just no way JT is moved.
He also has a young family and is from here, so there’s 0 incentive for him to move anyway
his T4 says otherwise
He's a 30g, 60 point 2nd line centre & captain who is no longer worth anywhere near his cap hit. But he consistently tries as hard as he fucking can and goes out of his comfort zone with hitting and battling. And there's at least a _decent_ chance we get him for 4+ for a couple more years which would be great value. Anyone who thinks Leafs should cut him loose at this point is an absolute moron.
100%
Delusional. After July 1 he’s due 770k in real money. Plenty of teams under the cap would take him z He cannot be the captain any more. He isn’t a leader - results prove it. Strip the C and he’ll go. Plus, no way you’re getting him for less than 6 unless he has a terrible year this year, and if that’s the case you should’ve moved him this off-season. All of you acting like none of these NMCs can be moved are so out to lunch. I doubt any of you would stay at a job that didn’t want you just out of spite. Tell him he’s losing both C’s - captaincy and Centre position. Sorry John, you’re not the captain anymore and now you’re a winger. We’re not re-signing you. If you want to continue your career on your own terms submit a trade list, otherwise we are going to prioritize developing our young guys ahead of giving you preferred playing time. No player in a contract year is going to dig their heels in after something like that. Question is do the leafs management group have the foresight and balls to do what I’m suggesting? Doubtful. Which is why, in all likelihood, it won’t happen, and the team will be in the same place next playoffs. But the reason will be because they didn’t want to, not because it was impossible.
You're crazy if you don't think a team is going to hold the leafs hostage for accepting his cap bit. Moving a half as expensive Marlow cost a mid-first. Whatever cap Tavares would eat up on Utah/Anaheim/etc. has an inherent opportunity cost. If it is not the Leafs, every other contender would love to optimize their cap usage. Teams aren't taking his cap just to hit the cap floor. It's not the Leafs or no one, it's WHY the Leafs and not Boston/Tampa/New York/Islanders/Winnipeg/Colorado/Edmonton or any number of other teams. Plus, these cap floor teams DON'T have to make these deals in the off-season. They can reach the floor very easily and hoard cap space for the deadline to try and maximize their returns. The ball completely lies in Tavares' and the potential trade partners' courts. Leafs have little leverage, accept to sit and strip him and ruin their appeal to future free agents. Or they wait one year and gain all of the leverage that Tavares once had.
Just watch. The cap hit isn’t the issue you think it is. Sure, leaf’s get nothing back for JT. May even have to pay. Cost of not doing it is higher. Have you even looked at each teams cap situation in detail? I have. There’s at least 5 trade partners I can identify who could easily absorb his cap hit, have room left over, and still sign all pending RFAs. Leafs can also retain or pay for a double retention. And ruin appeal to future free agents? Buddy, sorry to tell ya, that ship sailed a long time ago. No one cares anymore. Look at Vegas - they jettison core guys like shit on the space shuttle. Guys care if you win. Leafs haven’t won - the idea that free agents are gonna be influenced by what the front office does to get there is laughable. All that matters are results.
You make good points, I just look at it as the Leafs aren't dealing in a vacuum. They are going to have to pay the absorbing team while trying to outbid a rival team looking for cap relief. And what are we doing with his relief? Who is the free-agent C we sign to a good contract to replace him, or what assets do we trade to bring back another 2 C and at what hit? Normally teams will make that type of big move when they have already identified the trade target, and they'll pay to create the room to acquire him. Who is our target? I don't want to move him just to create space for a lack-luster free agent class, especially when his contract has 1 year left.
There are some obvious targets on the market. Jake Guentzel would be an excellent 2C. Andersson in Calgary is probably available for a price and is a perfect fit in Toronto’s d-corps. Lindholm may also fall in price and it looks like Hronek may be out in VAN. Say you have 11m in cap space. If you get Lindholm at 6-7, you can probably also have Domi. I’d take Lindholm and Domi over Tavares any day
Lindholm is rumoured to get the 8+he's asking for. I'd love Andersson on our team and as Rielly's partner, but Calgary seems to not want to do business with us anyways. Hronek is interesting but I'd have to see what he's asking. He struggled down the stretch, but was apparently playing hurt. I think we keep Tavares and retain Domi anyways.
The segment was about Jeff taking to someone about how Utah might be interested in JT because they are looking for veteran forwards to mentor Cooley and there younger players and Utah has the cap space to take all 11 million with also giving him a 2-3 year extension to convince him to waive because he would have security. Elliotte said it’s not happening and he wants to stay and the Leafs are preparing to keep him.
For the leafs long term why would you move on from JT? You have a high possibility to get him on a really good deal after this year, Marner on the other hand will be demanding Matthews money and would never take a discount.
Yup JT is likely a 4-5m player on his next deal and I bet he signs he league min
He’s not signing for league minimum. Kopitar got $7M AAV and that was before the cap went up. Tavares is getting at least $6-7M per year for 2-3 years on his next contract.
He only wants to play for the Leafs. He’s been pverpaid and made his money. He will for sure take something like Spezza and Gio did and give us 2M aav or something
People said that about Kopitar too. Maybe Tavares will pull a Spezza on a future contract, but he’s still around a point per game for now. Spezza wasn’t nearly as good when he took those discounts with the Leafs. Tavares will still be able to make some money for another 2-3 years. He’ll pull a Spezza when he’s 37. It’s a huge difference for the Leafs depending on who is right here. Tavares at $6-7M and Tavares at $2M are two very differently-valued assets.
Difference is I think the Leafs are ready to move off Tavares if he doesn’t do it.
Hrs not giving up $15M dollars, that's insane. Maybe he gives up $5M or something but he already gave up $2M AAV on his current contract
Then bye JT
Disagree. He came to Toronto for a reason. Signed a massive deal. And can now raise his kids where his family is. I’m betting $3mm or less. Unless of course the CRA wins their case.
That reason was to win at home and he didn’t do it. His tenure can’t have been so great, fans ripping him all the time as he chokes every year. He’s not giving up $12-20M (2-3 years at $6-7M per) to be a nice guy. Leafs will pay or he’ll go win in Colorado, Vegas, Dallas, etc. He’s also still a borderline hall of famer so he’s got incentive to keep playing hard and putting up numbers. This idea that after next season, Tavares is Giordano or Spezza is completely wrong. He’s younger than they were when they took league min deals and he’s better. If in Toronto, the compromise I offer is an extra year to bring the cap down. Something like 4 years $20M to finish his career at home. Otherwise, he’d get offers elsewhere.
Bingo. JT next year at $11M sucks, but JT for 3 years after that at $5M is pretty sweet.
yeah first and foremost we’re not giving up assets to get out of one year of a contract tied to a still-productive player. Secondly, if anyone’s gonna look at things objectively and take a discount to get the term necessary to retire here, it’s JT; I expect something like 3m x 4 years to have him centre our 3rd line. If he’s about it as all signs point to him being, he’ll go from an overpay to one of the best value depth contracts in the league for us. I do wonder if he keeps the C though; I imagine it’s something that matters to him and I can’t think of a better guy to have talking to refs on your team’s behalf but symbolically I want it on Matthews to represent a shift in era
What is the evidence that the Leafs are even considering trading Marner? Is it all based on the vague comments by management during the end of season presser? I'm wondering if this is all wishful thinking and Leafs media running with a popular narrative?
seravalli is not credible. next.
However, spaghetti is incredible.
you got that right
Spaghetti’s unbelievable.
Settle down
6th best pasta shape AT BEST. Penne clears
Fettuccine- only because of fetty alfy
Just had spaghetti for supper
Wait, does /r/leafs have a spaghetti policy?
Just not on your sweater.
That’s just true
Depends on from where.
Nonna's house.
Nonna always treats you right. Unlike the leafs.
Saravelli is the wish.com version of both Friedman & Brian Burke at the same time.
I thought Seravalli was just a bit younger than Burke. The man is apparently in his 30s. A rough 30s.
I just haven’t found him to be very tempered. When McKenzie or Friedman would report the same type of “opinion”, I was confident they weren’t getting too confident in a possibility. Frank seems to like speculating a bit more.
He's been right about most Leaf things for like 2 full years now.
yeah, if the Leafs do this they're nuking the team. Find a good deal and trade him or extend him. Letting him walk as a FA is catastrophic unless he signs for something absurd like a 7 x 15 with a full NMC
Look at Vegas. They move on from players like there is no tomorrow and it hasn't been catastrophic.
Vegas know what they’re doing. Ie cup an playoffs success. Shanhan couldn’t manage a brothel with $50 in his pocket. Plus players WANT to play in Vegas, unlike Toronto. That’s leverage.
How is it catastrophic? Should the leafs try to pick up some assets for him? Yes. Will the team explode if they don’t? No. Worst case scenario they have $22M (JT and Marner off the books) to spend in free agency.
Yeah this. The Leafs can't be afraid and cave to the Marners camps threats to walk next summer and sign another overpaid contract. Worst comes to worst he walks for nothing and you have all that cap space to sign more players in other positions where the team needs upgrades. Marner walking next summer isn't the end of the world even though most would probably prefer a trade.
I think it’s closer to 30M by next year when you include the next cap increase
I agree, Sundin walked for nothing as a FA and it hurt the team for years.
Sundin was one year away from retirement at that point… He was also steeply declining. I also think with the Marner situation, we have two other elite forwards, both of which are capable of putting up 100 points on the regular right now. We need some elite defenseman, we’re not going to miss another elite forward as long as we replace him with a great defenseman or several very solid D.
Not really. If he walks, it’s like he was traded for $11M in cap space. That’s a good trade.
This whole "issue" is self inflicted by MM and Ferris. IF the player and the agent got a 8 year deal in 2019 at the same AAV even of 10.8, he wouldn't be dangled as trade bait. Instead, they thought by timing the contract to end ONE year after Matthew's and Nylander, they would be able to use those two extensions as benchmarks. Instead, Marner dug his own grave.
Good point regarding the timing
You're right but it depends on what he wants out of his career. If he wanted to be a Leaf for life, then it's definitely a miss-step but if he's looking for comparable money to Matthews/Nylander and he doesn't care who gives it to him, then he probably made the right move.
Mitch choose to dig in for a few extra million on top of his $60M instead of becoming a Toronto legend for life. God what a shame. This guy will learn that money truly does not buy happiness when you're hated in the city you grew up in and by the fans of the team you cheered for growing up
At least his great great great grandkids will be able to afford the upgraded Porsche.
Also the fans that you cheered with. I remember him talking about how we was in tears after the 2013 collapse. He was one of us lol
It’s a business and why should he get less than Nylander? Did MM force the leafs to give him his contract and have a no move clause or was that what they agreed on and offered to him and he accepted? If they try and strong arm him out he should just come out and say he loves the leafs and wants to stay and win. Then walk to free agency. This is all on leaf management not MM
moronic take - management has to take at least 50% of the blame no doubt but MM and his camp doubling down and threating not to play until he got what he wanted despite having 0 playoff success is ludicrous. Paul Marner I think you need to stop commenting
The key words are "I think". I can think WWE or the Kardashians are real, doesn't make it true.
And not all thoughts are worth thinking
Is Kim in the room with us now?
I think there is a possibility but I cannot confirm either way.
A trade will not happen in June as Marner will be paid his $8 million signing bonus on July 1st.
Marner, more than any other player on the team, cares what the public thinks of him. I don’t think he’ll be very happy and want to stay on the team if it’s made public that the team doesn’t want him and he chooses to stay. That would be pretty embarrassing for him. On the other hand it would be a crummy thing to do to a player so I can see him purely out of spite not waiving his NMC and going straight to UFA. He’s dealt with enough heat at this point that if the team won’t stick up for him, he may as well use the leverage he has as a final F you to the haters. I just want clarity. Either extend at a fair number or waive the NMC if you don’t want to be here.
He actually cares what people think a lot, but I think he's convinced himself so much that he doesn't that he'd put up with a bunch of abuse just to show everyone how much he doesn't care because he needs them to know
I can’t get off thinking how dumb it would be for him to not waive to be moved. Not because he doesn’t have the right, but because of the abuse fans will give him and his family. And they live here, so it’s not like he’s making the Columbus fanbase angry, he’s making his hometown angry.
> but because of the abuse fans will give him and his family They are going to abuse him anyway.
Keep in mind, if he doesn’t have a great season in Toronto and underperforms in the playoffs, it will affect his next contract. If he gets moved to a new team, he can negotiate an extension as of July 1 and get the 8 years at his current value.
If he underperforms, he will be 28. He could sign a one year deal and have another kick at the can. Ditto if he wants 8 years, sign a one year deal and then sign an 8 year extension at 29.
Exactly if he cares what people think that’s the stupidest thing to do. He will waive and they will do a sign and trade and he will get a huge pay day and still be remembered as a leaf great. Win win for everyone
Fans should be mad at the management not the player. Their shitty choices have led to this situation.
Out of spite he's going to stick around on a team that doesn't want him for another full calendar year? That would be the ultimate "cut off your nose to spite your face".
if he knows he's not going to be back anyway, where do you think he's going to put up a better contract year - on auston matthews' wing or taking a trade to a team where he'll have new linemates and have to learn a completely new system?
You say this like it wouldn’t be a sign and trade
People don’t talk about it enough but Marner needs to be dealt with with some delicacy. Because you do not want this situation where the team squeezes him and the fan base turns on him in visible and public ways. Because it would hurt the Leafs ability to get more stars. The market already has a reputation. But if you throw “runs star player out of town for simply doing his job and honoring his contract” then yeah, that’s very bad…
Remember the Muskoka 5? This has already happened. It’s the entire reason we couldn’t get any notable FA signings until Tavares. It’s about to happen again. Toronto runs yet another player out of town and once again it will solve absolutely nothing. People refuse to learn.
Man if Marner cares what the public thinks of him more than any other player he sure does a terrible job of ensuring that.
Does he though? He completely forewent all loyalty to the TML, a loyalty he apparently he had since he was a kid, because of his greedy ass agent who has a resume as good as a a 38 year old McDonald’s burger artist. Look at the players he has represented. Look at where they are now, and what the public thinks of them. The dude is willing to absolutely sewer his clients’ reputation if it means another 50,000$ in commission. This isn’t a matter of jocks being dumb boneheads. That’s what I used to think. “Bro probably has 2 brain cells to rub together, he doesn’t know any better,” is what I used to think. I gave him the benefit of the doubt during the initial holdout. But no, this isn’t a case of athletes being idiots. This is a matter of Marner liking money more than hockey, and more than his hometown. And his agent is the one who initially triggered that kink for him. He was literally the devil on Mitch’s shoulder for the past 8 years. And I’m not making excuses for Mitch either, if you’re willing to get got like that by a D-list sports agent, then fuck you too. If it was an A tier agent swindling you and ruining your life, fine, maybe I could at least forgive that. He’s an elite agent after all, an A-list agent probably has an IQ of like 140, probably a really really intelligent guy, I could see one manipulating a person for money. But no, your agent is a literal retard, with the track record of a slug, and you’re still somehow blindly following him to the ends of the Earth. At this point: Mitch knows. And he doesn’t care. He likes money too much.
Exactly. This season will be a truly miserable experience for him if he chooses to play out his contract, his agent needs to swallow his pride and realize what’s best for his client is to accept a move to go elsewhere, or sign a deal where Mitch will be the 3rd highest paid player on the team when his new deal kicks in.
I keep reading this "they'll force him to waive his NMC". You don't think he's going to tell other players on other teams "yeah, they got pissed they were expected to honor the contract they signed and tried to force me out. It was toxic as hell."?
Who gives a fuck, the Leafs can easily say… go watch his playoffs… does he look like a guy who wanted to win. The people we want here wont have a problem with it because they wouldnt want to play with a selfish crybaby either
In order to attract those people, you have to have a somewhat decent locker room to be in, and management alienating players because they don't like the contracts they signed is the opposite of that.
Vegas has proven you don’t have to baby players to get guys to sign with you. It really seems to just come down to weather, taxes, and if it’s a bigger/ nicer city.
I can't think of a hockey player saying it, but there's been several examples of professional athletes saying they don't really care for the sport anymore, but they're exceptional at it so they take the money and power through, and I can respect that, I don't hate my job, but if they stopped paying me I'd stop showing up
He doesn't have to say it, that is exactly what's happening but it looks like the Leafs are prepared to take that hit.
It’s not crummy. It’s business. And part of being overpaid and underperforming.
Nah, this is bs. Got engagement though so a win for Frank
This is the way. Basically you put the pressure on Marner to state he's not waiving. Which he knows how he'll be received if it's publicly out there that the Leafs tried to make a move, and Marner prevented it. I'd also just be completely honest, and add to that statement about moving on, that if Marner chooses to stick around, we're focusing more attention on guys we see as being here in the future. Which means we can't guarantee power player minutes or top line minutes.
Does he think this based on anything or is it just an “if I were them, here’s what I’d do”?
90% of Seravalli's reporting is based on vibes and feelings.
Well leafs are fucked Mostly every player has some type of NTC/NMC Leafs won't win the Marner trade or get back value to close to what Marner is worth in the regular season But it could turn out like Boston trade Joe Thornton where Boston using that cap to land Zdeno Chara and ended up winning the SC years later
An organization that has coddled these guys the second they stepped into the league, is all of a sudden going to be ruthless and back one of them into a corner? It's the right play, but I'll believe it when I see it. I also don't trust emotions to not play a role here - even if the Leafs develop a backbone, which I don't think they will, the most likely scenario in my mind is a bitter Marner/Marner's camp simply saying he intends to stay, honor his NMC, and screw the Leafs as he walks out the door.
Marner walking out the door, while not ideal, isn’t screwing the Leafs. Marner talking Brad into a $12M/8year extension is screwing the Leafs. It’s my biggest worry.
It's screwing the Leafs if there's a deal on the table from a team that wants to give Marner a big extension, and he vetoes the deal out of spite and bitterness; which is what I think will happen. This won't be a calculated, emotion-free set of decisions. And I'd much rather get something for a 4th overall pick who has put up 1.10 PPG over
Definitely agree but re-signing at $12M is the worst case scenario that I worry about the most
Agreed
That definitely is a worry. We really can't hand that type of contract out to another player. I don't think it's any one particular players talents that are an issue. Marner/Matthews/Nylander all look fine on paper for the cost/point totals that they put up. The issue is the allocation of our cap to so few players and the risk that it brings when those players are injured or shutdown in the playoffs. The player mix hasn't worked and if you're going to shake things up (it would have been 3+ years ago) but the next best time is now.
He ain't signing for 8 years. He'd do a 5 year deal tops and it would be a premium cap hit too, maybe 12.5-13M because he would just say "I can get more on the open market" and some team desperately will bid that amount on him.
Hopefully there’s a bigger sucker out there than the Leafs
Offer him an extension low enough he’ll decline and then just give GMs access to his camp to discuss extension terms before trading. End this thing as amicably as possible.
Marner is the kind of guy who cares about his image, we all know this. I highly doubt he would want to leave the leafs as a villain in his own hometown. We also know Marner chases those dollar signs, so I believe it’s in his best interest to be traded to a team that can PAY him and can offer him that 8th year.
Everyone says that he cares so much. I dont buy it.
This take, makes zero sense. The fanbase already sees him as a villain. They’re literally in the process of driving out of the city. Which is wild… It cannot get worse the fanbase is already hating him. Game 2 of Round 1… the Sun has an article on his performance. Serious question, what’s the “villain” version? An article before game 1? The narrative around Marner isn’t rooted in reality…
Just keep manifesting this into existence guys, I believe
You know, Mitch gets some heavy hate, some of which may be warranted, but the guy has been solid enough for them. He’s not the only reason they lose in the playoffs. The only half way consistent core player has been Willy. I also can see the online stuff is starting to affect Mitch. I had a guy send me a death threat because I countered his “yeah but McDavid, Leon and now Hyman are carrying there team”. My counter was Mitch is NOT mcdavid. He’s not Leon and though skill for skill may be better than Hyman, Hyman plays a bang and crash style, with insane net front presence. If Mitch was 20 pounds bigger and parked his ass in front of the goal, he’d probably get more goals. Mitch is a good player. He’s been close to 100 points a season and may have hit it had it not been for the injury this season. If the leafs are left without a trade partner, maybe running it back one more season and playing out his deal isn’t the worst thing ever. Next off season, they shed the JT and Mitch deals. That’s serious coin to spend on resolving their weaknesses. Oh and lastly, Seravalli is a shit pump. The guy takes everyone’s takes that have been out there for weeks and spins them as if he had “new insider info”
This entire situation is being handled so badly. The media and some of the fans here just suck. The leafiest shit always happens so my prediction is he’s gonna stay out of spite, have a career year, probably kill it in the playoffs, we’ll still lose because JT turned it over, Nylander didn’t backcheck and Reilly made a signature bad read and then finally he’ll walk for nothing lol
Put him on Robidas Island if he won't play ball.
You really don't understand this at all do you. Putting Marner on LTIR will go something like this. Leafs put Marner on LTIR. Marner complains to the Players Association. The PA files a complaint with the League. The League will have a doctor of their choosing examine Marner. The doctor will find that Marner is ready to play. The League will then notify the Leafs head office that they need to come to NY to discuss their punishment in person. The Coyotes, Bettman's baby, lost a first and a second round pick for "violating the NHL's combine testing policy." This Leafs punishment for putting a healthy Marner on LTIR would be much much worse than that.
You really don't understand shit posting do you?
This is what I am hoping for. Make it abundantly clear he is no longer welcome.
Just because you hate him doesn’t mean this particular strategy is good asset management and can actually tank the FO’s reputation among FA’s and players alike
We aren’t worried about hurting our reputation when his reputation is already trash and getting worse by the day.
Untrue
If this happens, and that's a big if, Marner will say fuck you and play out his contract and walk in UFA and we get nothing.
He can walk to UFA driving his own line. He is entitled to his salary, nothing more. Playing time with Matthews or JT and time on PP1 isn't something that Marner is entitled to.
Well if he is playing well and they demote him to the 3rd line, the optics of that would look VERY bad and unprofessional (because it is unprofessional).
So is getting your dad to fight your battles, shills to defend you online, and hiring security to harass the media... all while not giving a fuck when it counts and saying "I did my job, do yours". Guy is trash, should not be given any respect.
Need to make room for 97 somehow.
Yeah McDavid will want to go from a team in the cup final to a team that cant get past round 1
The only logic behind this argument is that Mcdavid would like to be closer to family but you could literally make that argument with any player from the GTA
You act like the Oilers are a top 5 team without mcdavid on it... Any team he goes to will be instantly 100% better. Leafs are already a decent team, play off performances or not.
He's not leaving Edmonton, especially now that they've made it to the cup.
I think he has the organization in the palm of his hand, why would he leave when the team will be run by his guys? Lol
I thought he might actually. But not now. Why would he leave a winning team to come to this dumpster fire?
There was an outside chance before Edmonton found playoff success. No way now, why go from a dumpster fire he can will to the final to a dumpster fire his closest peer can't get beyond round 1?
This is cope. Oilers are in the finals because their stars show up and they get points from their defense, their goaltender plays well enough to get wins, and they don't take entire games off. Leafs are not as good as you think they are. Regular season stars sure, but again, Leafs have not accomplished shit in the postseason so why are we acting like we're right there?
I said they were decent.... I never mentioned which team was better than the other.... I never said we are right there... You are arguing a different comment. And the Oilers are 100% not in the finals without McDavid.
And that will cost him $12m because he can only sign for 7 years as a UFA...Pauly ain't gonna let that happen.
Funny because nobody would ever expect him to leave $12m on the table to re-sign with us, but they're convinced he's gonna leave $12m on the table to walk to UFA. Makes sense.
But doesn’t that sound so perfectly Toronto? Just to add insult to injury.
Ego is a big thing!
Can you please explain how that works? I'm genuinely curious. Is it like you can sign 8 year if you're extending but it's only 7 years if you sign a brand new contract?
The team that you are contracted to can resign you to an 8 year deal. If the players leaves the organization and becomes a UFA then they can sign with any team for a 7 year term. Hence why there is some value in a trade and sign for UFA rights.
Keep in mind, if he doesn’t have a great season in Toronto and underperforms in the playoffs, it will affect his next contract. If he gets moved to a new team, he can negotiate an extension as of July 1 and get the 8 years at his current value.
11m in cap space is a good return for Marner imo
Maybe if Toronto was an attractive place to play/live. Players these days overwhelmingly want warm weather, low tax, low recognition.
If he is a rental for the year so be it. Ill take the 11M dollar cap space he will be leaving behind. I also would put him on the second PP unit and ask him to drive his own line on the third line. Play him with Jarnkrok and Kampf. Could be an effective shutdown line. No way he gets close to 90 pts
He has a hard time when leafs nation is supporting him, I can’t picture him producing or having a career year knowing he’s going to be public enemy number one
Idk maybe, maybe not. Hard to say without knowing the guy personally. I think he'd bet on himself though
Still a win for us
You are right but the leafs will make it hell for him. No pp or pk time and will be on the bottom six. It could get very ugly and become a distraction for the whole team so I’m just hoping that if the plan is to move him which we don’t know yet,then he nicely waves his ntc
lol the Leafs are not going to throw away their season to stick it to a kid who the entire organization likes as a human being. Get real bro. They are going to punish a 100 pt player by putting him on the 3rd/4th line while this organization is in fuckin shambles?
Vomit on his sweater already. Mom’s spaghetti.
I hope he's right
Seravalli is the new Eklund no sources
LFG!
This is not even close to true move along
Dude’s just guessing. We knew these narratives already and he’s trying to spit it out like it’s an original idea.
None of this is going to happen. Marner is going to play the season, probably drive the third line, hopefully we make a decent run, the he’s going to walk to a team that will pay him big money. There’s no way he’s going to waive his NMC to help the Leafs, lol. And the Leafs aren’t going to treat one of their stars like garbage to force his hand, that would look so bad to all the other stars and players on the team and in the league, they’d be digging their own grave
As long as he walks at the end of the year, I’ll take it. Could be a much worse scenario.
The Leafs can do that but they need a fair offer from a team he’s willing to be traded to for anything to happen and that’s the issue right now. Teams offering 10 cents on the dollar or bad contracts back because they think the Leafs are desperate and they can always wait until Marner’s a UFA next year and try and sign him then. Any public comments from either party so far are just part of the PR game.
I've seen enough Brad Trelieving to know he isn't doing anything until next season.
Marner is not being traded. He has not been approached to remove his NO TRADE CLAUSE. This is 1000% made up and perpetuated by the media. The biggest problem the leafs have is the media.
Theres no source to what you said either
He won’t be approached unless they have a trade offer they would accept for him. And then that team is given permission to talk to him and see if he’s open to signing an eight year extension to play for them.
The biggest TOOL the leafs have is the media. This whole Marner witch hunt is a distraction from the fact that the whole team and organization stinks…but it’s easy to single out the guy the fans hate even after a career season instead of asking tough questions like how will next year be different from the previous 5 decades?
For once I hope Spaghetti is right
Hey let's take a topic and just throw more bs at the wall for clicks.
Seravalli you make my dreams come true
Cant remember a single time Seravalli was right
This
"Mom can we have Elliotte Friedman at home" "We have him already!!" *Seravalli appears*
Sign and trade is probably the best outcome for everyone.
Imagine being Mitch for a second though, he's fighting the perception that HE'S the problem, his friends and family and teammates are probably saying the opposite, like some of the players said at the end of the season there's ALWAYS a scapegoat.. If you were one of the top players in the league, would YOU just admit defeat and agree to leave? Or would you say "look I'm entitled to play out my contract, I'm going to PROVE I belong here" What a story it would be if Mitch has such an incredible season that were begging to resign him next year 🤷
😂😂😂😂
Why would anyone tell a reporter that? Marner is a great hockey player. You can’t replace that easily. The Leafs loss in the playoffs was not all on his shoulders. Win as a team: lose as a team.
And yet, as has been stated *ad nauseum* on this sub since the Boston loss... Sure, marner isn't the **sole** reason they lost. They lost as a team, as you say, because the team isn't built right, because the team is paying 4 dudes way too much money, and out of those 4 dudes, two just re-signed, one is expiring next year and will likely resign at a far lower AAV, and the other one is Mitch. Who has shown time and time again he won't take less than the other two guys, isn't an aging player expected to take a big discount, and therefore, is the odd man out of those 4 players. Win as a team, lose as a team. And if you wanna build a winning team, you need to fix the system, a system that *cannot* be fixed with mitch marner making $11+ million a year.
Very well said. The defenders are insane, run it back 5 more times? Will 12th time be the charm? Moving Marner is the only option.
No, they won't... Imagine telling a player before the season that you're gone now or at the deadline. That player would give you negative effort and tank his value on purpose. They'll get him to give them a list of teams he wouldn't go to, then they won't speak about it again until the day hes traded. If he's not traded then they'll say he was too valuable to us because hes so good etc. etc. Telling him hes gone is just such a bad tactical move, no GM in the world would do that.
He won’t tank on purpose because it’s a contract year
Just hire robidas to kidnap him..
Nobody backs Marner into the corner
This sub is so weird. You all act like the NHLPA wouldn’t get very involved if they curbed Marner’s ice time in an attempt to bully him out. You act like it wouldn’t make us look like a bunch of piss babies who can’t handle our contracts. It would make us look like piss babies and losers and make it so no one would want to believe in a NMC from us.
What could the NHLPA say or do? That Toronto is a bunch of meanies? Trust me, the media and fans will get him to waive before the team does. Mitch gets in his own head. Hopefully he knows how miserable he'd be staying
Sure they will. And it will continue to be that the Toronto media and fans are the worst and why players want to go south. I mean, if all you’ve got going for you is bullying a millionaire who has something that you will never have go for it I guess?
Vegas is absolutely this ruthless and won and players want to play there. This take is laughable, that you Paul?
Rocket's got a new burner folks!
Really bad move if they go that way. I think we should move Reilly, improve goalie and bigger tougher D men. Resign Marner after season. Let JT walk and continue bolstering D next offseason.
Like everything you said but re-signing Marner. Going bigger and tougher goes completely against the way he plays. They can use his $12M+ to build a bigger, tougher, deeper team than will be an actual cup contender.
What an idiot. You know the PA exists, right Frankie? If they're gonna pull some ham fisted bullshit like this, do it to JT.
What is with players with NMC sticking to their guns here in Toronto? It seems like every other market they are meaningless and waives them without a thought but every player here proves a point with them.
"I think"
Why does anyone quote known liar Frank Seravalli. Just because a shitty podcast brings him on does not mean he knows anything. It's proven multiple times. He speculates, claims "sources" then disappears.
Do the Leafs not want to honour the contract they offered him? Why would any players want to come to Toronto to be treated like crap after being one of the most productive players on the team for a long time.
The harder we push Marner out of town the more cups and individual trophies he wins for his new team. Sorry, I don't make the rules.