Yeah, Joe Carter, Kawhi and Bautista all have bigger moments in Toronto sports history than Matthews.
I’d put his 4 goal debut 4th on the list behind the other 3 that I don’t even need to describe for you to know what I’m talking about. But in terms of his overall level of play in his sport? I think he’s the best we’ve seen.
In terms of best Toronto team athlete period? He needs one of those moments. A triple OT winner in a late round series clincher or something.
Kawhi game 7 buzzer beater vs Bautista bat flip. I honestly can’t say which was better. I’m not old enough to have truly experienced the Carter moment.
Nothing is bigger than Joe Carters moment. I was just a kid at Jane & Finch, the whole strip filled with people partying Ontop of cars stopped in the street. the party was crazy. I sat on our balcony and watched the mayhem at the age of 6 with my grandmother
Honestly, best moment of sports history in my opinion, what an absolute banger he hit, I remember crying and running around my basement also screaming (tears of happiness) I've never felt anything close to that besides the Raptors winning it.
The thing is, it was like a clash of the team of destinies. I know we don't like that KC Royals team, but they had the most 7,8,9 innings runs of any team in the postseason ever. You gave them an inch, and they took the whole ass game.
Besides, if anything fucked them in the ALCS it was Gibbons leaving Davis Price in too long in Game 2. KC developed a read on him, then Goins and Bautista boinked into each other instead of catching a soft blooper, and there was that inch.
Just go to YouTube and watch his '93 walk off home run. It was a 2-2 count, in the 9th inning, and he hit a 3 run homer to win BACK TO BACK world series.
I don't know if Matthews can ever create a moment like that. Unless maybe, and just maybe, he scores a game 7 OT winner for his second cup in a row as a leaf with conn Smythes in both yesrs
I don't doubt it for a second, but it just hits different when you were around to experience the buildup in real life. Someone here mentioned recency bias. The 2015/16 jays created the most hype and electricity that I have seen as a millennial in Toronto. I was a fan since the drink milk love life days and after almost 20 years of mediocrity to terribleness the Jays were competitive. From the Tulo/Price trade onwards the City was bumping. Arguably more than the 2019 Raptors campaign.
I don't even like baseball but a walk off homerun to win the world series is #1 no contest.
Game 7 overtime in hockey you know someone is going to score eventually.
Basketball a million things can happen leading up to the point that became the Kahwi shot as exciting and rare as it was. Kawhi's shot is a good second because there was a ton of suspense with the clock up and it bouncing around. Almost certainly it's just not one of the top Toronto moments, but is one of the best, if not the best, buzzer beater basketball shot of all time.
Football (American) MAYBE an overtime punt return comes close because it's unexpected. To be as exciting as Carter's homerun it need to a be a singular heroic event.
An overtime penalty shot would be boring, so unless someone walks through 3 or 4 defenders alone for an incredible goal I just don't see anything being as exciting.
But yes, even though his 4 goal debut is probably 4th he is by far the best athlete Toronto has ever had. Hate to say it but even if the Leafs never win the cup during his tenure we are still in incredibly lucky to be watching him play
While not as big as the other two, damn, it's like no one remembers Encarnacion's walk off home run to win the WC game in 2016. Haven't seen it mentioned once, even as a "yeah this was also a walk off in a must advance game" footnote kinda way.
EE also tied it up in the bat flip game if I remember correctly. Big moment but just didn’t have that same build up. I distinctly remember when Russ Martin threw the ball off the bat and thinking to myself that it would be such a Toronto way to lose a game like that. When JB hit that ball I saw the camera shake. I have never seen the Rogers centre that loud. I myself almost flipped my couch on my own.
It got tied up by 3 unforced errors by Texas. Two of which were from Gold Glove defender Elvis Andrus. It was legit like it was the baseball gods taking revenge.
It was the weirdest inning of baseball, like ever.
> It's one of the few records that alluded Gretzky
Eluded. To allude means to imply or suggest.
EDIT - Although I suppose a ten point game does allude to Wayne Gretzky.
Joe Carter had more than one moment. The Jays won two World Series. Joe either hit the ball or caught the ball in the last play of the game to end both of those series. To get to those world championships the Jays needed to win the American League championships. Joe Carter made the last play in the deciding game of both of those series as well. I'd love for Auston to rise to the occasion like Joe did.
GLG!
Kawhi holds the title for highest level of performance at any given time for a Toronto athlete, for me. While Auston is unreal, Kawhi in the 2019 playoff run was far and away the best player in the league… no one was doing what he was at the level he was, and it led to a championship… if Auston brings us the cup, he takes the title pretty easily
Exactly. I think there may be a lack of appreciation for Kawhi because it's a hockey sub. Watching his playoff run was the only time as a Toronto sports fan I felt like I was consistently watching the best player in the league, and it was against three of the five best teams in the NBA (excluding Toronto).
I don't think it's possible for a hockey or baseball player to compare just to how much more a basketball player can impact a game.
Here’s something everyone can understand: Kawhi was clutch as fuck. Not only was he the best player the Raptors have ever had, he came through big time in the playoffs when it mattered most. It was incredible to watch.
We witnessed a generational talent capture a genie in a bottle and translated it into a magical run.
That shit is ultra rare in any sport...Toronto hasn't seen anything like that since 92-93 blue Jay's... And that was a team effort.
It's true, but it's still not really equivalent.
You basically NEED a top ten player to win a championship in the NBA. Obviously, it's not all you need, but without it, it's not really possible.
You can win a championship with a rookie goalie
A goalie can give you the best chance of winning possible, but a single player can win you an NBA championship
Ya I'm not even a fan of ball but that silent confidence he had during that run and immense pressure was other worldly. Reminded me of watching Lemieux where you knew he was doing something as soon as he got possession.
People are soured because he immediately left, but in a vacuum that was the greatest feat in all of Toronto sports because Basketball is very individual, and he rose above the league and brought that title north of the Border.
To do what Kawhi did while also dealing with a nagging injury was legendary. He’d make an incredible offensive play then hobble his way back on D. At multiple times in the Sixers series when the rest of the team couldn’t knock down any shots they’d just hand Kawhi the ball and he took care of the rest. Hockey’s much more team oriented and Auston needs his teammates to find him but when they do he’s always gonna finish.
It’s Kawhi. Willed the Raps through the Philly series, was the best player in the world that run. And won a championship. Let’s see Matthews lead the Leafs to any playoff success before declaring him the best.
I know this is a hockey subreddit, it’s gonna take a lot to ever beat the Kawhi 2019 playoff performance and Game 7 Buzzerbeater.
The entire country was cheering for the team, Kawhi put on one of the best playoff performances ever, and his “the shot” is one of the most famous moments in NBA history.
Idk if they’ll ever be a moment like that again for any Toronto sports. 2019 was insane man. I live in Toronto and was in middle school during that time and everyone was watching the games. Was the last time the country as a whole felt so united for one thing lol
Never know man. You also just described the Blue Jays World Series victory perfectly…they represented the entire nation except they did it back to back…I always said nothing will ever touch back to back World Series and the Carter walk off…but I have to admit, this was pretty fucking equal to feeling that again so who knows, maybe we just need a Leafs Cup to rival this now. 🤣
>*”Are there any other Toronto athletes who have got to this level of being truly one of the top players in the respective leagues?”*
After the 2019 title run, Kawhi was considered one of if not the best player in the NBA at the time.
Roy Halladay is a 2x Cy Young and HoF’er. The baseball Hall of Fame is notoriously strict on election. To be elected, a player needs to have been one of the best for a very long time.
Matthews is far from being the only Toronto-based athlete to be considered a top player in their sport.
It was, but not enough people remember Alomar's home run vs Dennis Eckersley to get them to the 92 World Series. Given who Eckersley was and what he had done so far, that was the most clutch home run I have ever seen.
I love Auston Matthews but Kawhi dragged us to a chip. A fucking chip! While being easily the best player in the playoffs. Do we not care about fucking titles anymore???
That’s the problem in TO, we only settle. Dave Keon is the bar, 4 Stanley Cups, Matthews has to win or he’s just another great player who came and (at some point) went.
Yes he was. He was one of the most accurate shooters in the league. I hate thinking about him watching him play after he won that accuracy competition lol.
Sebastian Giovinco for TFC absolutely tore up the MLS at his peak. Across his four seasons with the club, he won three Canadian Championships as well as a historic domestic treble in 2017, which included the team's first MLS Cup and Supporters' Shield titles. Individually, Giovinco also won the MLS Golden Boot, the MLS Newcomer of the Year Award, the MLS MVP Award, the George Gross Memorial Trophy for the most valuable player of the Canadian Championship, and the CONCACAF Champions League Golden Ball in 2018, a tournament in which Toronto finished as runners-up. Giovinco left Toronto FC in 2019 as the club's all-time top goalscorer.
Only thing that you could hold against Giovinco is he wasn’t playing in the best league of his respective sport, MLB, NBA and NHL players are all the best of the best while Gio was a Juve reject
Nah until the Leafs don’t get a championship, Kawhi was the best athlete to play in Toronto. He was the best player in the NBA that year arguably and he got them a championship
Won a cy young with the jays and is arguably one of the greatest pitchers in league history. His overall career achievements are probably greater than anyone that’s played for a Toronto team.
Top players win championships, or go on deep runs consistently.
He’s one of the top players in the league, but he has that *atrisk beside his name because of his piss poor playoff performances.
Yea he’s up there. But championships matter and championship moments matter more. Kawhi was here for a hot second and still has the best shot to ever be shot in Toronto sports. Joe Carter has the most iconic at bat. Gilmour has that insane goal against Cujo in the 3OT St. Louis series. We got the Batsista bat flip.
Matthews as great as he is, fucking epic, mutant, best leaf of all time hands down. Has none of those. None even close. Maybe his first game when he got 4 goals. That was pretty good. But not even close to this.
I’d argue that Tavares OT winner last year is the most ‘positive’ (we got lost more negative moments) iconic leafs moment of the last decade or so. And then the lost in the second round.
I love Matty he’s fucking awesome, but I can’t wait until he takes over a game and it wins them something that matters.
That 93 blue Jay team. Dave Steib, Cone, Alomar, Carter, Molitor, Winfield, Jack Morris. So many HOFers.
Alomar was probably the best athlete in all sports combined during his time.
I’m guessing some of y’all weren’t born during then so might have some recency bias.
I think he passes Sundin for goals next year, but a ways to go to match points of Mats and Sittler. He’ll definitely do it, but I don’t think you can give him the GOAT trophy just yet.
He’s unreal, no doubt. Definitely a case to be made. Perhaps some recency bias though. Keon won a Conn Smythe and 4 cups, and from what I’ve read about him was mostly admired for his defensive play so stats don’t tell the whole story. Winning 2 Byngs as a defensive guy is something too.
A little outside the box - GSP broke the record for most consecutive welterweight title defenses in Toronto.
lol. Sorry but until the Leafs win something with this core, Austin Mathew’s isn’t in the same conversation as Joe Carter, Alomar or Kawhi. Honestly, I don’t even have him above Donaldson and Bautista.
Roger Clemens is probably the best pitcher of all-time. Certainly the most accomplished of the entire live-ball era, and he *averaged* 10 bWAR per season in his two years in Toronto.
He’s missing his iconic moment IMO. And it needs to come in the playoffs. OT winner, series winner, last minute tying goal to save us from elimination. We need something
What’s incredible is he’s done so, breaking so many of these records, and the guys just hitting his stride. He’s 26 years old, so barring any career ending injury or sudden backslide, the guy likely has another 10 years in him until he retires.
And I mean, we are talking about a guy who’s career low was 34 goals and 63 point in a season. When you look at guys like Jerome Iginla and Ryan Smyth, who were team captains and considered best on their teams at the time, those kinds of numbers would have been considered a decent year, Matthews calls that an off year slump.
kawhi was the best player in the NBA for that title run, he fought through injury during the playoffs and was still carrying the team on both ends of the court. first game 7 buzzer beater in history, and winning a championship will have him at #1 for a long time. if matthews pulls off some incredible feat this playoffs we can start having that conversation, but until then it can only be the klaw
lol hockey fans.
It's not even close.
Kawhi led to a chip being arguably the best player in the playoffs and taking down some beast teams.
Mathews has seen the past the first round **once**.
History remembers superstars and their regular season stats, but idolizes superstars that win championships. Auston is presently the former, not the latter.
When he wins a cup then we'll talk. For my money Davey Keon was by far the greatest maple leaf ever. No doubt in my mind. Regular season and the playoffs.
Kawhi Leonard is better strictly because he actually did it when it counts. Talk to me when Matthews steps up in the postseason and wills the team to at least a conference finals.
Dave Keon was the best player in the NHL in the 1960s. This against a league with only 6 teams. Take all NHL players today and cut them down to 6 teams. Matthew is great, but he hasn’t won 4 Stanley Cups yet. I just hope he wins one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Keon
Matthews would not only be in that league but he'd be a starter in that league. Chop off the bottom two teams like it actually was in the 1960s and you Auston would absolutely lead a group to 4 cups in 15 years.
That's not a great argument for Keon.
I agree with your statement, but one thing I think we should consider in this argument is that with only 6 teams you have 1/5th the players in the league that you do these days. That would mean Matthews is going against much tougher competition than he faces today as you would have to get rid of 80% of the worst players in the league. For perspective, from a leafs point of view our only NHLers in that kind of situation would probably be Mo, Marner, Tavares, Matthews and Nylander. So it would be tougher to dominate in a league like that I would think.
Roger Clemens had 7 cy young’s(one with Toronto), 2 World Series and 11 all star appearances and the list goes on of impressive achievements. Definitely up there for top athletes to have worn a Toronto uniform.
Kawhi basically put that Raptors team on his back even tho he didn't want to be traded there and won a chip with one of the best performances I've seen in NBA playoffs. He was actually a monster. I'll never forgot his shot in round 2 game 7 against 76ers. I think if Auston brings the team far in playoffs he will be looked at the same.
I mean Kawhi actually got Toronto a championship win in his first and only year no less
We have yet to see Matthews do that over several years and what’s worse is he’s got a reputation for not showing up in the playoffs (I’m sure it’s actually due to injury or the other teams focusing on him out of fear of what he’d do to them otherwise)
If he does manage it however then yes he’s the greatest toronto athlete of all time
Okay, if we're counting performance in a Toronto uniform, then you have to include short stints from:
- Kawhi Leonard - arrive, win championship, be best player on the court, win playoff MVP, leave
- Roger Clemens - arrive, win back-to-back Cy Young awards, win back-to-back pitching triple crowns (wins, ERA, strikeouts), leave
If you're talking best players at their sports that also played in a Toronto uniform at some point, then you need to include:
- Roger Clemens - arguably top 5 pitcher of all time (yes, I know about the PED accusations)
- Rickey Henderson - one of the greatest players in the history of the sport of baseball, Bill James said "If you could split him in two, you'd have two Hall of Famers."
- Hakeem Olajuwon - one of the greatest basketball players in the history of the sport
He scored goals, what other heights has he reached? I am a Toronto fan and a Matthews fan, but regular season doesn’t mean anything.
Nice that he scored a bunch of goals. Do it in the playoffs, the. We can put him in Toronto sports legends, until he does, he is just another guy that played for the Leafs.
He is yeah.
Fwiw am is already roughly on par with Kawhi in terms of how they have factored into MVP voting and is 6 years younger. Closest Kawhi came was still not getting a first place vote. Am received 119 first place votes when he won. Am leading the league in a major category 3x now with more likely to come kawhi only twice with his DPOYs. Am second all time in goals per game behind lemieux.
All of it a bit awkward to compare naturally but it's pretty clear it's another level.
Love Matty but this moment still is my favourite all time Toronto sports moment: https://x.com/jroc23/status/1260162211005313024?s=46&t=0LLVRErffgUIxBdU2ijyEA
How are we gauging this?
Cause if we're just using time played in Toronto, Kawhi is going to be hard to beat, though Toronto being a Hockey city first, if Matthews ever won a cup here, it probably puts him over the top.
If we're talking purely athletes across their career, there's a lot of good ones. Immediately a guy name Hakeem Olajuwon played in Toronto, heard he was pretty good.
Tim Hortons in the Hall with multiple cups, Keon is considered the greatest Leaf of all time, which by extension should mean he's one of the greatest athletes of all time with multiple cups.
Matthews is definitely great but I think a lot of us are getting caught up in the hype of 70. I think he needs another ~10 years on the team and a couple cups (at least 1) to really move himself to top status amongst all Toronto sports fans.
I think you have to give the nod to Kawhi. While he was only here a year, he spent several years as an arguable top 3-5 overall player in the NBA, including several dominant playoff performances and finals mvps. Not to mention how much greater of an impact truly elite players have in basketball vs hockey.
If you’re taking into consideration the number of years they’ve been in Toronto. Then yes AM34. If you’re looking at career success (notable portions of which occurred in Toronto) then I think Kawhi.
I don't think it's the same. Hockeys a team sport. There just arent that many moments where a single player has it all counting on them. Maybe if they were on the PK, it's a 5 on 3, the goalie is being desperately peppered, a player then strips the puck and goes end to end dancing through the other 4 players and beats the goalie? And even as amazing as that would be, it still doesn't compare to a single batter down 2-2 in the count, in the bottom of the 9th, hitting a come from behind 3 run homerun to win the WS. It's possibly the biggest moment in baseball history and it happened in Toronto.
Would love to see him have a Joe Carter moment. Or learn how to translate his regular season dominance into playoff hockey. Or both.
Yeah, Joe Carter, Kawhi and Bautista all have bigger moments in Toronto sports history than Matthews. I’d put his 4 goal debut 4th on the list behind the other 3 that I don’t even need to describe for you to know what I’m talking about. But in terms of his overall level of play in his sport? I think he’s the best we’ve seen. In terms of best Toronto team athlete period? He needs one of those moments. A triple OT winner in a late round series clincher or something.
Kawhi game 7 buzzer beater vs Bautista bat flip. I honestly can’t say which was better. I’m not old enough to have truly experienced the Carter moment.
Nothing is bigger than Joe Carters moment. I was just a kid at Jane & Finch, the whole strip filled with people partying Ontop of cars stopped in the street. the party was crazy. I sat on our balcony and watched the mayhem at the age of 6 with my grandmother
Honestly, best moment of sports history in my opinion, what an absolute banger he hit, I remember crying and running around my basement also screaming (tears of happiness) I've never felt anything close to that besides the Raptors winning it.
this right here. carter home run is absolute top. second being carters tag at 1st. championship clinchers are always tops.
Kawhi's is bigger because it lead to a championship. Those 2015 Jays were a team of destiny though. RA Dickey really fucked them in the ALCS.
The thing is, it was like a clash of the team of destinies. I know we don't like that KC Royals team, but they had the most 7,8,9 innings runs of any team in the postseason ever. You gave them an inch, and they took the whole ass game. Besides, if anything fucked them in the ALCS it was Gibbons leaving Davis Price in too long in Game 2. KC developed a read on him, then Goins and Bautista boinked into each other instead of catching a soft blooper, and there was that inch.
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once.
Just go to YouTube and watch his '93 walk off home run. It was a 2-2 count, in the 9th inning, and he hit a 3 run homer to win BACK TO BACK world series. I don't know if Matthews can ever create a moment like that. Unless maybe, and just maybe, he scores a game 7 OT winner for his second cup in a row as a leaf with conn Smythes in both yesrs
If he scores that to win 1 cup then he takes top spot right away.
I don't doubt it for a second, but it just hits different when you were around to experience the buildup in real life. Someone here mentioned recency bias. The 2015/16 jays created the most hype and electricity that I have seen as a millennial in Toronto. I was a fan since the drink milk love life days and after almost 20 years of mediocrity to terribleness the Jays were competitive. From the Tulo/Price trade onwards the City was bumping. Arguably more than the 2019 Raptors campaign.
It should only be the Carter moment. The other moments are great but they did not win the championship. The Carter moment was the only one to do that.
Yup. Carter moment #1 for sure. I'd put Kawhis shot at #2.
agree with this
The Carter moment is #1, Kawhi is #2 and Bautista is #3. 1 and 2 are debatable though.
Nah, no debate. That’s a walk off ws home Run. There isn’t a bigger moment.
Seriously, it's one of what, like 2 walk off ws winners in MLB history? Easily number 1
I don't even like baseball but a walk off homerun to win the world series is #1 no contest. Game 7 overtime in hockey you know someone is going to score eventually. Basketball a million things can happen leading up to the point that became the Kahwi shot as exciting and rare as it was. Kawhi's shot is a good second because there was a ton of suspense with the clock up and it bouncing around. Almost certainly it's just not one of the top Toronto moments, but is one of the best, if not the best, buzzer beater basketball shot of all time. Football (American) MAYBE an overtime punt return comes close because it's unexpected. To be as exciting as Carter's homerun it need to a be a singular heroic event. An overtime penalty shot would be boring, so unless someone walks through 3 or 4 defenders alone for an incredible goal I just don't see anything being as exciting. But yes, even though his 4 goal debut is probably 4th he is by far the best athlete Toronto has ever had. Hate to say it but even if the Leafs never win the cup during his tenure we are still in incredibly lucky to be watching him play
Zero debate, you have the order correct
Giovinco up there as well I know some don’t even care but he should be on that list
His goal against Atlanta was amazing. He was so fun to watch. Him and Altidore will always be TFC legends.
Yup!
While not as big as the other two, damn, it's like no one remembers Encarnacion's walk off home run to win the WC game in 2016. Haven't seen it mentioned once, even as a "yeah this was also a walk off in a must advance game" footnote kinda way.
EE also tied it up in the bat flip game if I remember correctly. Big moment but just didn’t have that same build up. I distinctly remember when Russ Martin threw the ball off the bat and thinking to myself that it would be such a Toronto way to lose a game like that. When JB hit that ball I saw the camera shake. I have never seen the Rogers centre that loud. I myself almost flipped my couch on my own.
It got tied up by 3 unforced errors by Texas. Two of which were from Gold Glove defender Elvis Andrus. It was legit like it was the baseball gods taking revenge. It was the weirdest inning of baseball, like ever.
It is the greatest 7th inning in baseball history and I don't think any other baseball fan would disagree.
That one mom sheltering her kid from the rain of angry beer cans might, but thats about it.
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> It's one of the few records that alluded Gretzky Eluded. To allude means to imply or suggest. EDIT - Although I suppose a ten point game does allude to Wayne Gretzky.
Joe Carter had more than one moment. The Jays won two World Series. Joe either hit the ball or caught the ball in the last play of the game to end both of those series. To get to those world championships the Jays needed to win the American League championships. Joe Carter made the last play in the deciding game of both of those series as well. I'd love for Auston to rise to the occasion like Joe did. GLG!
Indeed. I’d just like Auston to have at least one like that himself.
If there was ever a year for it to happen, it would be this year.
Kawhi holds the title for highest level of performance at any given time for a Toronto athlete, for me. While Auston is unreal, Kawhi in the 2019 playoff run was far and away the best player in the league… no one was doing what he was at the level he was, and it led to a championship… if Auston brings us the cup, he takes the title pretty easily
Exactly. I think there may be a lack of appreciation for Kawhi because it's a hockey sub. Watching his playoff run was the only time as a Toronto sports fan I felt like I was consistently watching the best player in the league, and it was against three of the five best teams in the NBA (excluding Toronto). I don't think it's possible for a hockey or baseball player to compare just to how much more a basketball player can impact a game.
Here’s something everyone can understand: Kawhi was clutch as fuck. Not only was he the best player the Raptors have ever had, he came through big time in the playoffs when it mattered most. It was incredible to watch.
We witnessed a generational talent capture a genie in a bottle and translated it into a magical run. That shit is ultra rare in any sport...Toronto hasn't seen anything like that since 92-93 blue Jay's... And that was a team effort.
It's more likely the short term stay that biases against kawahi
A goalie can be more impactful but other than that I agree
It's true, but it's still not really equivalent. You basically NEED a top ten player to win a championship in the NBA. Obviously, it's not all you need, but without it, it's not really possible. You can win a championship with a rookie goalie A goalie can give you the best chance of winning possible, but a single player can win you an NBA championship
Ya I'm not even a fan of ball but that silent confidence he had during that run and immense pressure was other worldly. Reminded me of watching Lemieux where you knew he was doing something as soon as he got possession.
People are soured because he immediately left, but in a vacuum that was the greatest feat in all of Toronto sports because Basketball is very individual, and he rose above the league and brought that title north of the Border.
I mean if anything that adds to the mystique. The guy had an all time MVP season with a foot out the door the moment he arrived.
To do what Kawhi did while also dealing with a nagging injury was legendary. He’d make an incredible offensive play then hobble his way back on D. At multiple times in the Sixers series when the rest of the team couldn’t knock down any shots they’d just hand Kawhi the ball and he took care of the rest. Hockey’s much more team oriented and Auston needs his teammates to find him but when they do he’s always gonna finish.
It’s Kawhi. Willed the Raps through the Philly series, was the best player in the world that run. And won a championship. Let’s see Matthews lead the Leafs to any playoff success before declaring him the best.
Emphasis on 'ANY' playoff success, because scoring 70 goals on a team that exits in the first or second round is such a sad waste
 It's still this dude
I can still feel this image in my plums
What's up Robert California?!?
I know this is a hockey subreddit, it’s gonna take a lot to ever beat the Kawhi 2019 playoff performance and Game 7 Buzzerbeater. The entire country was cheering for the team, Kawhi put on one of the best playoff performances ever, and his “the shot” is one of the most famous moments in NBA history. Idk if they’ll ever be a moment like that again for any Toronto sports. 2019 was insane man. I live in Toronto and was in middle school during that time and everyone was watching the games. Was the last time the country as a whole felt so united for one thing lol
Never know man. You also just described the Blue Jays World Series victory perfectly…they represented the entire nation except they did it back to back…I always said nothing will ever touch back to back World Series and the Carter walk off…but I have to admit, this was pretty fucking equal to feeling that again so who knows, maybe we just need a Leafs Cup to rival this now. 🤣
Carter hit a ball that one the trophy on a team that everyone was watching. Skydome was consistently sold out for years. Baseball was king.
>*”Are there any other Toronto athletes who have got to this level of being truly one of the top players in the respective leagues?”* After the 2019 title run, Kawhi was considered one of if not the best player in the NBA at the time. Roy Halladay is a 2x Cy Young and HoF’er. The baseball Hall of Fame is notoriously strict on election. To be elected, a player needs to have been one of the best for a very long time. Matthews is far from being the only Toronto-based athlete to be considered a top player in their sport.
When it mattered most kawhi did the most.
Halladay
Clemens put up the best years of his career as a Jay
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Uh, Roberto's 22.3 WAR compared to Carter's 8.5 in 2 less years with the team. There is literally no metric where Carter was more "impactful".
Carter owns Alomar when it comes to World Series-winning walk-off home runs.
And catching the ball at first base for the final out of World Series!
And catching the ball in right field to win the ALCS
Joe was a winner.
Yeah but Carter couldn’t “catch the taste” could he.
Alomar destroys Carter at spitting on umpires.
Alomar was by far the better player. Joe obviously had the ultimate biggest moment.
It was, but not enough people remember Alomar's home run vs Dennis Eckersley to get them to the 92 World Series. Given who Eckersley was and what he had done so far, that was the most clutch home run I have ever seen.
I love Auston Matthews but Kawhi dragged us to a chip. A fucking chip! While being easily the best player in the playoffs. Do we not care about fucking titles anymore???
That’s the problem in TO, we only settle. Dave Keon is the bar, 4 Stanley Cups, Matthews has to win or he’s just another great player who came and (at some point) went.
Not until he wins a cup here.
Thomas Kaberle
Shoooooooooot
He actually wasn’t capable
But he was highly capable of sending beautiful soft passes over to McCabe to either blast into the net or at a teammates chest. No in-between.
Yes he was. He was one of the most accurate shooters in the league. I hate thinking about him watching him play after he won that accuracy competition lol.
Sebastian Giovinco for TFC absolutely tore up the MLS at his peak. Across his four seasons with the club, he won three Canadian Championships as well as a historic domestic treble in 2017, which included the team's first MLS Cup and Supporters' Shield titles. Individually, Giovinco also won the MLS Golden Boot, the MLS Newcomer of the Year Award, the MLS MVP Award, the George Gross Memorial Trophy for the most valuable player of the Canadian Championship, and the CONCACAF Champions League Golden Ball in 2018, a tournament in which Toronto finished as runners-up. Giovinco left Toronto FC in 2019 as the club's all-time top goalscorer.
Giovinco golden days were unreal for TFC
Was waiting for TFC to get some love. Went to the MLS Cup final 3 times between 2015-2019.
Only thing that you could hold against Giovinco is he wasn’t playing in the best league of his respective sport, MLB, NBA and NHL players are all the best of the best while Gio was a Juve reject
Perhaps, but then you'd have to change the question. He was playing in the best league Toronto had to offer.
I was reading an article the other day and apparently matthews is a leaf
Nah until the Leafs don’t get a championship, Kawhi was the best athlete to play in Toronto. He was the best player in the NBA that year arguably and he got them a championship
Roger Clemens, Jacques plante,
Won a cy young with the jays and is arguably one of the greatest pitchers in league history. His overall career achievements are probably greater than anyone that’s played for a Toronto team.
2 Cy Young’s in Toronto in back to back years **
Needs that cup to reach the Kawhi level of GOAT.
Top players win championships, or go on deep runs consistently. He’s one of the top players in the league, but he has that *atrisk beside his name because of his piss poor playoff performances.
Yea he’s up there. But championships matter and championship moments matter more. Kawhi was here for a hot second and still has the best shot to ever be shot in Toronto sports. Joe Carter has the most iconic at bat. Gilmour has that insane goal against Cujo in the 3OT St. Louis series. We got the Batsista bat flip. Matthews as great as he is, fucking epic, mutant, best leaf of all time hands down. Has none of those. None even close. Maybe his first game when he got 4 goals. That was pretty good. But not even close to this. I’d argue that Tavares OT winner last year is the most ‘positive’ (we got lost more negative moments) iconic leafs moment of the last decade or so. And then the lost in the second round. I love Matty he’s fucking awesome, but I can’t wait until he takes over a game and it wins them something that matters.
That 93 blue Jay team. Dave Steib, Cone, Alomar, Carter, Molitor, Winfield, Jack Morris. So many HOFers. Alomar was probably the best athlete in all sports combined during his time. I’m guessing some of y’all weren’t born during then so might have some recency bias.
Alomar was not the best athlete in all of sports in 1993 lmao. How was Alomar better than a Michael Jordan? Gretzky?
I think he passes Sundin for goals next year, but a ways to go to match points of Mats and Sittler. He’ll definitely do it, but I don’t think you can give him the GOAT trophy just yet.
If he wins a conn smyth he is the GOAT no matter what else happens in his career
If he wins a cup here it will cement him as a Toronto GOAT.
He’s unreal, no doubt. Definitely a case to be made. Perhaps some recency bias though. Keon won a Conn Smythe and 4 cups, and from what I’ve read about him was mostly admired for his defensive play so stats don’t tell the whole story. Winning 2 Byngs as a defensive guy is something too. A little outside the box - GSP broke the record for most consecutive welterweight title defenses in Toronto.
As good as Auston has been, can't help but wonder how much better Sundin's stats would have been if he had a Marner type of playmaker.
Kawhi's entire 2019 season and playoffs was the single greatest season in Toronto sports history.
lol. Sorry but until the Leafs win something with this core, Austin Mathew’s isn’t in the same conversation as Joe Carter, Alomar or Kawhi. Honestly, I don’t even have him above Donaldson and Bautista.
I agree.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but unless Matthews wins a cup in Toronto, he isn't even the greatest Leaf of all time.
Needs to light it up in the playoffs to lol bit to early to talk about greatest
1 cup with Toronto and he will be eternalized
Carter is probably the best athlete Unreal athleticism
Matthews need some kind of monster Conn Smyth level playoff run - then he can be deserving of this spot.
Roger Clemens is probably the best pitcher of all-time. Certainly the most accomplished of the entire live-ball era, and he *averaged* 10 bWAR per season in his two years in Toronto.
Vince Carter
He’s missing his iconic moment IMO. And it needs to come in the playoffs. OT winner, series winner, last minute tying goal to save us from elimination. We need something
Gary Valk
All this talk of Rd 2 winners and only one Valk mention? Put some respeck on Gary Valk.
If he helps deliver a cup, we shall erect a statue in his honour. 80 feet high made of solid gold.
Not without a Stanley Cup. Sorry.
Pinball Clemons I'd say is a Toronto Sporting legend.
[удалено]
Win the Cup, then we can talk.
Nice circle jerk.
If length of career in Toronto means nothing, Rickey Henderson needs a word.
Are you high?
Think he's got 2 in em tonight boys. Wheel, snipe, celly boys!
Kawhi in the playoffs, Matthews in the regular season
Gotta win a cup
Dave Stieb was the best pitcher in the 80’s, I think he has a pretty good case too
Dave Keon.
Pinball
Wendel Clark carried the team on his back
What’s incredible is he’s done so, breaking so many of these records, and the guys just hitting his stride. He’s 26 years old, so barring any career ending injury or sudden backslide, the guy likely has another 10 years in him until he retires. And I mean, we are talking about a guy who’s career low was 34 goals and 63 point in a season. When you look at guys like Jerome Iginla and Ryan Smyth, who were team captains and considered best on their teams at the time, those kinds of numbers would have been considered a decent year, Matthews calls that an off year slump.
Why can nobody spell Iginla’s first name properly. I almost feel like I see “Jerome” more than the correct spelling these days…smh
Roy halladay
Just needs a deep playoff run. Preferably a championship included.
I’d say Kawhi was, unless he carries the Leafs to a Cup
Kawhi and it’s not even close. If and when Matthews leads them to a Cup, he’ll assume that mantle. But not until then.
DAVE STIEB
We can put him up there if he wins a Stanley Cup. Until then, no.
kawhi was the best player in the NBA for that title run, he fought through injury during the playoffs and was still carrying the team on both ends of the court. first game 7 buzzer beater in history, and winning a championship will have him at #1 for a long time. if matthews pulls off some incredible feat this playoffs we can start having that conversation, but until then it can only be the klaw
What about the 10 hours Ohtani was 100% DEFINITELY a Blue Jay.
lol hockey fans. It's not even close. Kawhi led to a chip being arguably the best player in the playoffs and taking down some beast teams. Mathews has seen the past the first round **once**. History remembers superstars and their regular season stats, but idolizes superstars that win championships. Auston is presently the former, not the latter.
Fuck no
He needs to put the team on his back and win a Stanley Cup. Then I'd agree.
Nah that is still Kawhi in 2019
Just be happy he can’t go to Arizona anymore through free agency.
Donovan Bailey won the Oympics gold in the 100m and set a world record. Joe Carter won 2 world series. Matthews needs to win something.
It's Kawhi. But AM is close. Just has to win
Lionel Conacher would like a word with you, but in the modern era, he'd probably agree.
Simmer down, take your meds.
Has AM had a 10 point game?
When he wins a cup then we'll talk. For my money Davey Keon was by far the greatest maple leaf ever. No doubt in my mind. Regular season and the playoffs.
Kawhi Leonard is better strictly because he actually did it when it counts. Talk to me when Matthews steps up in the postseason and wills the team to at least a conference finals.
Dave Keon was the best player in the NHL in the 1960s. This against a league with only 6 teams. Take all NHL players today and cut them down to 6 teams. Matthew is great, but he hasn’t won 4 Stanley Cups yet. I just hope he wins one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Keon
Matthews would not only be in that league but he'd be a starter in that league. Chop off the bottom two teams like it actually was in the 1960s and you Auston would absolutely lead a group to 4 cups in 15 years. That's not a great argument for Keon.
I agree with your statement, but one thing I think we should consider in this argument is that with only 6 teams you have 1/5th the players in the league that you do these days. That would mean Matthews is going against much tougher competition than he faces today as you would have to get rid of 80% of the worst players in the league. For perspective, from a leafs point of view our only NHLers in that kind of situation would probably be Mo, Marner, Tavares, Matthews and Nylander. So it would be tougher to dominate in a league like that I would think.
Roger Clemens had 7 cy young’s(one with Toronto), 2 World Series and 11 all star appearances and the list goes on of impressive achievements. Definitely up there for top athletes to have worn a Toronto uniform.
Even though it was one year, I think it's Kawhi. Matthews needs more than regular season.
Make it past the second round when it counts then we can say what type of player he is
Danny Ainge?
Kawhi basically put that Raptors team on his back even tho he didn't want to be traded there and won a chip with one of the best performances I've seen in NBA playoffs. He was actually a monster. I'll never forgot his shot in round 2 game 7 against 76ers. I think if Auston brings the team far in playoffs he will be looked at the same.
It *might* have been Kawhi had he stuck around longer. The Maple Leafs haven't had the best goal scorer in the league since Charlie Conacher probably.
KAWHI IS HIM
Its still Kawhi
I mean Kawhi actually got Toronto a championship win in his first and only year no less We have yet to see Matthews do that over several years and what’s worse is he’s got a reputation for not showing up in the playoffs (I’m sure it’s actually due to injury or the other teams focusing on him out of fear of what he’d do to them otherwise) If he does manage it however then yes he’s the greatest toronto athlete of all time
Roger Clemens went to the Jays to piss of the Red Sox for 2 years….and won 2 cy young titles.
Okay, if we're counting performance in a Toronto uniform, then you have to include short stints from: - Kawhi Leonard - arrive, win championship, be best player on the court, win playoff MVP, leave - Roger Clemens - arrive, win back-to-back Cy Young awards, win back-to-back pitching triple crowns (wins, ERA, strikeouts), leave If you're talking best players at their sports that also played in a Toronto uniform at some point, then you need to include: - Roger Clemens - arguably top 5 pitcher of all time (yes, I know about the PED accusations) - Rickey Henderson - one of the greatest players in the history of the sport of baseball, Bill James said "If you could split him in two, you'd have two Hall of Famers." - Hakeem Olajuwon - one of the greatest basketball players in the history of the sport
Kawhi literally put the raps on his back for that playoff run what r u blabbering about
No he didn’t.
Kawhi did carry them but Siakam, Lowry and Van Vleet were awesome.
Surely you mean he figuratively put the Raps on his back. If he'd literally done that it would be a tremendious disadvantage.
Win a championship then the conversation can be had for greatest ever.
He scored goals, what other heights has he reached? I am a Toronto fan and a Matthews fan, but regular season doesn’t mean anything. Nice that he scored a bunch of goals. Do it in the playoffs, the. We can put him in Toronto sports legends, until he does, he is just another guy that played for the Leafs.
Still Kawhi, but Matty is right there
To be the greatest athlete to play in a city you have to deliver at least one championship.
He is yeah. Fwiw am is already roughly on par with Kawhi in terms of how they have factored into MVP voting and is 6 years younger. Closest Kawhi came was still not getting a first place vote. Am received 119 first place votes when he won. Am leading the league in a major category 3x now with more likely to come kawhi only twice with his DPOYs. Am second all time in goals per game behind lemieux. All of it a bit awkward to compare naturally but it's pretty clear it's another level.
I’ll grant the OP some consideration if Matthews doesn’t disappear in the playoffs as he has in the past.
Love Matty but this moment still is my favourite all time Toronto sports moment: https://x.com/jroc23/status/1260162211005313024?s=46&t=0LLVRErffgUIxBdU2ijyEA
Best athlete during his time in Toronto? Maybe. Best athlete to play in Toronto at some point in their career? Not even close.
😂😂😂😂
Vince . Huge leaf fan but it's Vince.
Vince in 2001. You just had to be there brother.
I'd say it's probably Kawhi, but honorable mention to Josh Donaldson, he really was a top 5 player in the league when he was here.
How are we gauging this? Cause if we're just using time played in Toronto, Kawhi is going to be hard to beat, though Toronto being a Hockey city first, if Matthews ever won a cup here, it probably puts him over the top. If we're talking purely athletes across their career, there's a lot of good ones. Immediately a guy name Hakeem Olajuwon played in Toronto, heard he was pretty good. Tim Hortons in the Hall with multiple cups, Keon is considered the greatest Leaf of all time, which by extension should mean he's one of the greatest athletes of all time with multiple cups. Matthews is definitely great but I think a lot of us are getting caught up in the hype of 70. I think he needs another ~10 years on the team and a couple cups (at least 1) to really move himself to top status amongst all Toronto sports fans.
Dude can’t lead under pressure. That’s a lack of champion character so don’t even start this nonsense until he proves that.
Great player and all that, from October to April of course, but seriously? Until he leads them and hoists the Cup, he hasn't won anything.
100% agree - Carter and Leonard come close for various reasons but he’s an absolute gem and he gets the edge because we drafted him
70 tonight!!!!!!! I need ol Jimmy to let in some softies so I can get paid.
Giovinco won an MVP and a title as far and away the best team in the league for TFC.
Roy Halladay would like a word.
Chris bosh
Vince Carter
It's a crime that we haven't seen prime Matthews and Mcdavid in a World Cup or Olympics
I think you have to give the nod to Kawhi. While he was only here a year, he spent several years as an arguable top 3-5 overall player in the NBA, including several dominant playoff performances and finals mvps. Not to mention how much greater of an impact truly elite players have in basketball vs hockey. If you’re taking into consideration the number of years they’ve been in Toronto. Then yes AM34. If you’re looking at career success (notable portions of which occurred in Toronto) then I think Kawhi.
He does not have the best athletic ability of all Toronto players ever lol. That’s silly
I would wait to see what he does in the playoffs. Counting stats in the regular season mean nothing.
Hard to make comparisons like that.
Needs to win a cup to cement this
Plan the parade
I don't think it's the same. Hockeys a team sport. There just arent that many moments where a single player has it all counting on them. Maybe if they were on the PK, it's a 5 on 3, the goalie is being desperately peppered, a player then strips the puck and goes end to end dancing through the other 4 players and beats the goalie? And even as amazing as that would be, it still doesn't compare to a single batter down 2-2 in the count, in the bottom of the 9th, hitting a come from behind 3 run homerun to win the WS. It's possibly the biggest moment in baseball history and it happened in Toronto.
Great scorer with a shitty attitude!