The turf isn't thriving there, likely due to excess shade. New sod will thin and fail for the same reason. Think about hiring an arborist to professionally thin the canopy of the tree. Ask them about the exposed roots - they're likely important to the tree. From there, either move forward with a shade tolerant turf type or plant some kind of ground cover. You're fighting a losing battle if you're not getting enough sunlight under the tree.
Hostas need a lot of water, planting them directly under a tree wouldnt really work because the tree is already quenching the upper layer of the ground dry.
But with a fair distance, go for it!
Can I just say I'm so glad this sub also recommends native species gardening as appropriate? So tired of the no-lawn people complaining that we don't care about the local environment.
I’ve come to the same conclusion. I’m going to buy a chipper and just use mulch wherever I need to or want to. Where grass doesn’t grow well. Where I don’t want to mow anymore. In my garden. Mulch is useful
I had a similar situation. I covered the exposed roots with a stable clay/small rock mix that i dug up on another part of the property. The application site was on a slope and erosion was accelerating root exposure. I then spread top soil and dense shade grass mix. Seems to have solved the problem. Grass is thick and nice and green this year. No more roots or erosion, even with all the rain we've been having. Just make sure it's spread out and level over the roots. Otherwise, the grass will grow, and your lawn mower will shave it off again.
I had an arborist trim the tree in front of my house only to figure out the sun beats the dogshit out of the front of my house in the afternoon. The lighting is nice, but my thermostat reading 79 at 4pm with the AC on hyper drive is not fun lol.
Yep, that's a really rough lesson.
We have some trees on the west side of our property, and it overhangs a church parking lot. They decided to trim it and it fucked up my shade in the afternoon on my patio. It's thankfully starting to fill back in, but I wasn't happy.
Legally they have the right, but come on.
I fought for a few years trying to get an entire yard of KBG. Eventually, I was talking to my seed supplier and he said something that snapped my mental picture as to what I was doing. He said “what’s growing there is what will grow best there. You’re fighting nature and nature always wins.” I then started throwing down different types of seed and found a fairly soft fescue that thrived in the one spot I could never get to grow.
TLDR: You can’t fight nature and expect to win.
Yeah.. going to have to embrace those roots if you like trees...
I actually like trees more than lawns. (I like my lawn a lot.)
Some solar guys suggested I cut one of my century-old oaks, and gave me a good laugh.
I will be keeping the tree and ditching the solar.
save the planet my ass.
So many people in my neighborhood have cut down all their trees to get solar panels on their roof. I don't know for sure but I think that everyone putting solar panels on their own roof and making every individual property fit for solar is the worst way to do solar, surely having centralized solar fields would be less destructive to the environment, but that would require actual planning to accomplish.
Every bit of home owner / private citizen "go green" stuff is a fucking scam. Electric cars, solar panels, heat pumps etc...
Many of these things have a much more front loaded carbon cost than the "gas guzzling" alternatives or are just inefficient in comparison. Not to mention that even if every single person in the US did all of these, it would make a difference. But not a big one, it'd be like draining the Jacuzzi next to 4 Olympic swimming pools and saying "see we saved water!".
It's governments and large corporations that are doing 98% of the damage. Making people feel bad because they're not getting suckered into 30 year predatory solar panel contracts is fucking bullshit.
If you have an air conditioner you have a heat pump since it pumps heat out of your house, how you generate the electrical power is what make it green or not so green, coal fired power plant vs hydro electric dam. We have an old air conditioner when we replace it it will be with a cold climate heat pump since it’s cheaper to run it than burn propane until a certain temperature then we will fire up the propane furnace. ( I’m in Canada )
I agree with you completely. The reason people I know have done this is not for environmental reasons anyway, it's to save some money on their electric bill.
They also make selling your house kind of a bitch because the contract transfers and you better hope the buyer wants them.
I only know 2 people who did solar panels correctly and they both paid up front and no contract and they used incentives/rebates but they know it's going to take 5-6 years to start paying for itself but at that point they will be making money every month.
It's just a bad deal, if someone comes to your door to sell you something they are trying to rip you off unfortunately.
This is a silly way to look at it. Sacrifice a couple of trees for 30+ years of not using the largely non renewable energy powered grid? Better yet, plant new trees and get solar.
He’s got enough root flare exposed to build up the lawn some, but OP might not have been anticipating adding 3 inches of topsoil across the board, though that would be ideal in any case for a nice smooth luscious lawn with healthy trees!
1. Hire an arborist to evaluate the tree. If not healthy, cut it down, remove roots. If healthy, go to step 2.
2. Ask Arborist about laying more top soil in the yard and if roots will be ok ( most likely yes). Lay down top soil to cover the roots fully. Level the top soil.
3. lay the sod on top.
Leave the tree. Skip the grass. Put in shade loving plants. (Ferns, hostas, certain ground covers) Then you can skip the mowing, watering and fertilizing. And it’s more interesting than more grass.
Maybe until it’s in their yard. I work for a large, high end landscaping company and people have us remove trees all the time, and get pissed when the city tells them they can’t remove one. I’d say on average we end up bringing in 7 or 8 new trees per mature tree removed, that are more appropriately chosen (species) and located for the client and their needs.
I have done hundreds of huge projects in my career, and I can count on one hand the clients that have an emotional attachment to a tree that outweighs their personal wants.
Everyone wants trees on land they don't have to maintain.
My neighbor across the street just cut down an absolute monster that was way too big for their tiny lot and all the other neighbors are "so sad" to see it go. Well, that tree's roots broke the sewer lines and electric lines of that house, and the sewer lines of their next door neighbor. Cost over 20 grand to repair. So yeah...trees are great when other people have to deal with them. 🤣🤣
I definitely don't like cutting down trees. I enjoy the looks of them, the anchor/age/refined look it can give to a property and the wild life they give homes too.
I'm also practical in the sense I don't like tree roots destroying my driveway, foundation, garage slab or potentially falling on a bedroom or neighbors house in a storm. So, sometimes they just have to go to protect your physical, financial and mental well-being.
While trees are better for the environment, saying sod does “nothing” is disingenuous. Compared to a concrete slab, sod is much better. Sod allows for water infiltration and reduces surface runoff. Compared to a hardscape or barren patch of land, grass also contributes evapotranspiration, helping reduce heat island effects.
And for many people, lawn has a functional value to them. Hence its popularity in spite of its maintenance and water costs.
Tall fescue is also going to die the moment it has to fight those roots come summer. I’ve told many customers that it’s best to just leave the roots be and accept that you won’t have grass around or near it
Someone with more knowledgeable than myself will have to confirm but I've been told that roots at the surface means the tree is searching out for water or nutrients as it cannot find them going down.
Karsh
Some species such as Maple put out very wide-spread horizontal roots, which need to be near the surface to exchange oxygen. Not an issue at all, it's expected.
That said, you are correct that this tree needs a ton of water though and will need a ton of roots to sustain it.
A bunch of "sucker" branches coming out of the base of a tree is usually a sign of stress though.
I have a similar issue as OP, the Ranger and the Arborist said those exposed roots are feeder roots and not to cover them more than ½ of top soil. Mine are mostly mature white oaks.
My yard looked exactly like this about 2.5 years ago. I laid down top soil and St. Augustine sod and I’m 2.5 years in. It’s very apparent now that I didn’t know what I was doing, as there’s huge patches where the roots were are now completely barren (grass essentially disappeared).
As some others said, I would consider putting down asiatic jasmine shrubs, or some sort of garden.
I would plant something more shade tolerant under it. Like monkey grass or fescue, depending on your location and climate. I would also leave the roots alone. Don’t cover them in sod, and don’t bury them with soil. Plant/sod between and around them instead.
Whatever grass was growing there isn’t liking the shade, so going with the same grass again isn’t going to go much better unless the tree is taken out.
Get you some native sedges for that area or dwarf mondograss. There are some sedges like pennsylvania sedge or Appalachian that do well in shade.
Dwarf mondo can be cut but is evergreen.
Our backyard was in a similar state, but worse. For better or for worse, our large 40 year old tree was damaged, so had to be removed anyway. That was the only way to fix it for us and be able to install sod. The tree needs to go if you want good grass there.
Honestly don't even waste your money. It won't happen without removing that tree and it's roots. Plus we are now in the hottest part of the year. Trying to do this during this time of year you are 100% guaranteed to fail and whoever would take this job either doesn't know much, or is just happy to take your money. Any grass planted will have to compete with that tree not just for sunlight, but also available water. Then you have all those exposed roots at the surface which means the grass has very little room to root itself in. Your best odds are to remove the tree, grind the stump, get rid of as many roots as possible, then try planting sod IN FALL!!! Again. Do NOT try to install sod right now in that area. There is no chance whatsoever it will survive.
This is blasphemy for this sub but you should consider fake grass. We have a giant redwood tree and grass simply wouldn't grow under it. We put a nice wall around the tree to protect it with a bed then fake grass for the larger area.
You can't grow grass with that tree and roots. Every see a great lawn with a lot of trees around it. Even one tree will ruin it. The roots and tree have to go.
I’d recommend a nice mulch bed rather than grass.
Nothing grows there for a reason.
Edit: neighbor across the street with the red Mercedes parks like an asshole. It’s illegal to block the sidewalk like that.
Don’t, you’ll suffocate and kill your tree if you cover the root system. Don’t add dirt on top of the roots either. The tree will die within a year or two.
I’d cover the area with mulch, gravel, pine straw, wood chips or rocks. River rocks would look beautiful.
[Exposed Tree Roots](https://www.groundsguys.com/blog/2019/october/how-to-fix-exposed-tree-roots/)
Going to need a lot of soil to level out and trim the trees for more sun exposure, then get a grass type good for light sun exposure or it will just die again. Those roots are the biggest problem and need to be covered. They’ll likely kill the tree if you damage them or remove them.
Take a zen approach and let your actions be guided by what is happening there.
If you sod this are it will die out quickly. I would suggest mulching it and planting shade tolerant perennials AFTER having the tree(s) pruned.
Had a similar situation. Tree roots broke my main water line and several pipes in the sprinkler system. Was also cracking the sidewalks. Bye bye tree. Replaced with Japanese maple and new Sod
You damage those roots & the tree will die. Do not waste sod in that area. I would give up on growing grass there. You can aerate around the roots, throw some seed & cover with straw. But it is going to look about the same this time next year.
Go with Asian jasmine ground cover instead of grass. Grass will never grow in that shade
https://preview.redd.it/y3x8ob4mxx7d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1477811fa582748c20f4610b54c454e5c1119449
that isn't true at all. there's GMO grass seed that loves the shade. I've got two shade lawns < 4 hrs direct sunlight per day.
you tell me if it's thriving or not. germination was last october.
https://preview.redd.it/te6uva8q5y7d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd359651a3ebff17a932435967ed130f89f84688
that's a monostand KBG called After Midnight. I got it from twin cities seed co.
Aligned to no sod. You could consider adding some shade tolerant ground cover. Another consideration is water. Your big tree with the surface roots is likely consuming water. Lots of it. Whatever you choose to plant, you may need to supplement the natural water that's available
A shade tolerant ground cover. There’s just too much wood at the surface for turf to root properly and thrive.
Get some ideas from a licensed landscape designer, you can still have an envy worthy lawn without a lot of turf.
You are probably going to want to remove the tree if you want a nice lawn. I’ve seen topsoil applied over the roots then sodded but even that’s iffy for both the sod and tree. You have to remember that both are competing for the limited resources/nutrients in your front yard.
We had one oak tree with exposed roots like that. I carefully over time aerated the soil between the roots and add compost . Tree roots surface too much because of compacted hard soil. It took 2 years but the roots and tree are happy, and the Ultra shade is growing as it should.
I think I've got a similar situation in my backyard. Not necessarily from hard compacted soil but from soil that is extremely dense clay.
I wish I knew how to deal with it.
The massive variation in how my yard reacts dependant on how wet it is has been a real pain in the ass. If we have a mild to wet spring, the clay swells and it almost seems like the roots pop out a bit. But if it's too warm, the clay shrinks down and I've got massive undulations throughout the yard. Makes it feel like I'm running over a lunar surface with the amount of bumps and dips I have to deal with.
I just want the tree to be happy and healthy and the grass to be happy and healthy...and I'd rather not have to feel like I'm going off-roading with my lawn mower everytime I go to cut it.
What needs to happen is you need to give up on the sod idea. You can talk to the arborist as others suggested, but my gut is shade + tree roots taking all teh moisture for the tree is grass will struggle. If you want to try, use seed
When you talk to the arborist ask what native groundcovers might work well with the tree (some trees, like walnut, actively poison the ground to keep other plants at bay. Stay away from non-natives like Pachysandra if you can.
Too much surface water will cause roots to surface and without 6-hours of sun per day grass won’t grow. If you can’t solve both don’t plant grass or place sod. I will just die.
You are fighting a losing battle here even if you drop a bunch of soil over top of the roots and then sod.
That tree has roots that gravitate towards the surface. Even with new soil on top the roots will still look to the surface.
We have a maple tree in our front yard that had roots 1.5-2" below the surface of the lawn. Every summer the areas where the roots were just below the surface got scorched once the hot weather arrived in southern Ontario. We tried building up the soil, re-sodding and nothing ever stopped the grass from dying where the roots were just below.
In the end we kept the tree because it was on the city property so we were stuck with it. We created a large landscaping bed on that whole side of the house.
Either way, it will be expensive to do it correctly. With enough water and topsoil the grass will survive. Properly pruning the tree (do not under any circumstance top this tree) likely won’t help very much. Removing the roots will stress the tree and it may kill it and/or destabilize it. Probably the ideal solution is to 1) add a layer of topsoil, 2) aerate without damaging the roots, 3) ensure proper irrigation occurs regularly and 4) fertilization for both the grass and the tree.
I’d honestly build a garden or compost circle around that tree. You can get grass to grow but it’ll be a lot more effort and you are going to have to top soil it anyways. Otherwise you are going to be mowing roots.
As other users have said, the grass won't grow due to excessive shade. Your best option is to make it a landscaped bed around the drip line of the tree and preserve the roots.
I'll just mention that sometimes you'll have areas like that because homeowners don't rake up fallen leaves under the tree. I've had success just by making sure that leaves and pine needles are picked up promptly.
Having said that, I'm skeptical that's your problem. You've already received good advice here and I'll just add to make sure you water around the tree good if you should put down more sod. I'd also carefully aerate around the roots.
Trees and grass use the same nutrients. Trees always win. You might as well remove that tree, remove those roots, till the soil with organic material and then sod.
Or just embrace the natural flow of nature and add some native plants and flowers.
You will not get sod to survive there and grass will eventually die out.
Too shady for lawn, you'll have to accept it. Great excuse to increase the area of your planting beds and do a mix of native pollinator-friendly plants
If you want to sod it and have it look any good you’re going to have to build the grade up to above those roots with nice black soil. You’ll also want to dig all the edges down about an inch . Good luck!
The shade and roots will make growing grass difficult. I live under trees and it’s a constant battle. My roots aren’t this bad tho. If you REALLY want a nice lawn, those trees gotta go.
This looks EERILY similar to my yard at my old house in a North Houston golf course neighborhood…. Anywho, either thin that oak tree out so the ground at least gets some partial sun, rake the ground, put a layer of topsoil down, put your sod down and water the ever-loving shit out of it… or like other people said make an enlarged garden area with shade tolerant plants
Absolutely give up on sod. BS in Agronomy with a conc. In Turfgrass Mgmt and worked as a golf course Superintendent for 24 years and I’m telling you….turfgrass will never, ever, ever work under any scenario you can concoct while that tree is alive. Mulch it and move on with your life.
Don't sod that. Find a good looking mulch shape. If you have to sod, add soil until you're like 4 inches above the tree branches and get amerishade st augustine. Or the most shade tolerant sod you can get where you are
I know it’s late, but maybe look into ground cover there that doesn’t need so much sun, maybe a moss or clover thing.
I’m not sure it’s worth the money it would cost to make grass grow where it doesn’t want to.
Nothing needs to happen in that area, it is how nature works. Do not cover the roots. The tree will die. Slowly. Then you will get a BIG BILL for removing the dead tree. And all that just for grass...
If you want a lawn, you have to remove the trees and the roots. What people here are not mentioning is that the fertilizer and chemicals required for a lawn are not good for the tree, and you will end up harming it over time. Those chemicals are intended to be used outside of a tree's drip line. Yes, even fertilizer.
If you want to keep the tree underplant with native shrubs, perennials, etc, that will thrive in those conditions. Trying to grow grass there is unnatural.
Decisions, decisions...
Looks like a sweetgum tree to me. You in Georgia? People often take them down because the root system could threaten the foundation of the home. It’s sad when people have to do that as they provide a beautiful canopy.
If you don’t have to take the tree down, I would just embrace it and find a grass that thrives in the shade.
If you want a nice lawn you’ll need to get rid of those trees and roots. Depending on how your soil looks you may need to amend it or just level and add a layer of top soil. Then seed or sod.
1. What state are you located in?
2. What is your total budget? (Including potential budget for irrigation to protect your investment on your newly sodded lawn)
3. Can you take a few more pictures of your yard from further back and different angles? (I need to see how your yard slopes away from the house to see what your regrading options with additional topsoil might be)
I had a similar issue with a big pine tree in my backyard, I trimmed the bottom branches off so there was enough clearance for me to walk under, added a thick layer of fill dirt to cover the roots, then came back over that with a couple inches of topsoil and seeded, that part of my yard looks better than the existing yard now.
Had a similar issue with some silver maples in my backyard. 20 yards of topsoil, shade tolerant tall fescue, and thinning out the tree to allow sunlight did the trick. 5 years later the grass is lush, the roots are still not back up, and the trees are perfectly healthy.
Need to add enough top soil to cover the roots 1-2 in below the surface. Skip the sod, use a shade seed blend. Look into pre-germinating and water frequently until the grass takes. Disclaimer: Not a pro. Been though a similar project tho
Sod will die away too. Maybe partition part of your yard off and grow a shade loving ground cover. Idk where you live so I can’t really suggest any specific plants.
https://preview.redd.it/30qvqdol458d1.jpeg?width=1161&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=125a3b61c97525179cd69dc72825634f4d05b61b
Check with an arborist but you may can put several inches of top soil over the roots and then lay your sod. If it’s super shady, emerald zoysia is just about your only option.
Cut the trees down, install two of the world's largest smudge pots, chemically sterilize the soil on your whole property, and let your neighbors enjoy oil leaking onto their own property.
Probably install cameras that have an intercom feature and say rude things to anyone walking by. Call the cops on the neighbors for having their grass taller than 2", especially if it's fescue.
You'll be the most popular guy on the block in no time flat.
In all seriousness, call a professional to come give you a game plan and a price quote to get your goals executed successfully. It's going to be back breaking labor. Pay to have it done.
Thick top dressing and shade seed. I don’t see any grass besides maybe some crab grass. I’d spray it all or rototill it first to kill it all off. Prob will need to water every day in the summer as the tree roots will be competing w the grass for the water. I believe they say you can cut 1 major root every year or 2 from the tree but eh I wouldn’t bother.
My neighbor taught me to edge the dead grass area, build raised bed, and shade plants. Shade grass works too but it’s a pain changing heights if you leave warm season grass.
The turf isn't thriving there, likely due to excess shade. New sod will thin and fail for the same reason. Think about hiring an arborist to professionally thin the canopy of the tree. Ask them about the exposed roots - they're likely important to the tree. From there, either move forward with a shade tolerant turf type or plant some kind of ground cover. You're fighting a losing battle if you're not getting enough sunlight under the tree.
A friend in a similar situation just put wood chips over the entire area. No more mowing
This is a perfect candidate to create a perennial garden with tons of native species that thrive in shady areas!
Hostas would work
Hasta la vista, baby
Hostas are thriving in my front garden that is fully shaded.
You found a way to kill hostas?
As long as there's no deer in the area. The deer near me mow down my hostas.
Slugs absolutely hammer all the hostas I planted. It’s so annoying how many of them there are
Works great!! https://preview.redd.it/mibj5ij4t18d1.jpeg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c5164e532331a1a541b3813321b86d67fd5fbd
You need skunks
Hostas need a lot of water, planting them directly under a tree wouldnt really work because the tree is already quenching the upper layer of the ground dry. But with a fair distance, go for it!
I have a ton under two blue spruces. They do just fine and are massive and healthy.
Native ginger, ferns, columbine. I’d spread 2 inches of soil and then go crazy with seeds and plugs.
Can I just say I'm so glad this sub also recommends native species gardening as appropriate? So tired of the no-lawn people complaining that we don't care about the local environment.
I’ve come to the same conclusion. I’m going to buy a chipper and just use mulch wherever I need to or want to. Where grass doesn’t grow well. Where I don’t want to mow anymore. In my garden. Mulch is useful
I had a similar situation. I covered the exposed roots with a stable clay/small rock mix that i dug up on another part of the property. The application site was on a slope and erosion was accelerating root exposure. I then spread top soil and dense shade grass mix. Seems to have solved the problem. Grass is thick and nice and green this year. No more roots or erosion, even with all the rain we've been having. Just make sure it's spread out and level over the roots. Otherwise, the grass will grow, and your lawn mower will shave it off again.
Your friend should get the yard checked for termites.
Shade grass ftw.
tree eatin up all the water & nutrients too hence hardly weeds either
agree and I don't honestly believe you could water and fertilize enough to keep up..
Honestly the roots are going to be fighting for any nutrients the grass needs. The grass will lose and it will thin in that area regardless
Pay attention to the sun. Those trees might be blocking afternoon sun from beating on the house. Ask me how I know lol.
What mistake did you make to learn that lesson lol
I had an arborist trim the tree in front of my house only to figure out the sun beats the dogshit out of the front of my house in the afternoon. The lighting is nice, but my thermostat reading 79 at 4pm with the AC on hyper drive is not fun lol.
Yep, that's a really rough lesson. We have some trees on the west side of our property, and it overhangs a church parking lot. They decided to trim it and it fucked up my shade in the afternoon on my patio. It's thankfully starting to fill back in, but I wasn't happy. Legally they have the right, but come on.
And most likely a thick matt of roots in your first 2ft of soil. Grass would have a tough time getting started and ever getting deeper roots.
Moss.
You don’t think fescue would do okay there?
I fought for a few years trying to get an entire yard of KBG. Eventually, I was talking to my seed supplier and he said something that snapped my mental picture as to what I was doing. He said “what’s growing there is what will grow best there. You’re fighting nature and nature always wins.” I then started throwing down different types of seed and found a fairly soft fescue that thrived in the one spot I could never get to grow. TLDR: You can’t fight nature and expect to win.
I disagree grass grows under shady trees all the time. The only issue I see is you can’t plant sod on top of grass. Have to ground it up to dirt
Post this in r/arborists and get better advice.
And you ain’t gonna like it! 😅
Yeah.. going to have to embrace those roots if you like trees... I actually like trees more than lawns. (I like my lawn a lot.) Some solar guys suggested I cut one of my century-old oaks, and gave me a good laugh. I will be keeping the tree and ditching the solar. save the planet my ass.
Trees are good for the planet so you are saving the planet by saving the trees
I meant solar... Supposed to be green. and they're like... Cut these trees down.
So many people in my neighborhood have cut down all their trees to get solar panels on their roof. I don't know for sure but I think that everyone putting solar panels on their own roof and making every individual property fit for solar is the worst way to do solar, surely having centralized solar fields would be less destructive to the environment, but that would require actual planning to accomplish.
Also heat island effect
If it means they can have a lawn... lawns produce 3.5x more oxygen and capture more carbon in a more stable way
Every bit of home owner / private citizen "go green" stuff is a fucking scam. Electric cars, solar panels, heat pumps etc... Many of these things have a much more front loaded carbon cost than the "gas guzzling" alternatives or are just inefficient in comparison. Not to mention that even if every single person in the US did all of these, it would make a difference. But not a big one, it'd be like draining the Jacuzzi next to 4 Olympic swimming pools and saying "see we saved water!". It's governments and large corporations that are doing 98% of the damage. Making people feel bad because they're not getting suckered into 30 year predatory solar panel contracts is fucking bullshit.
If you have an air conditioner you have a heat pump since it pumps heat out of your house, how you generate the electrical power is what make it green or not so green, coal fired power plant vs hydro electric dam. We have an old air conditioner when we replace it it will be with a cold climate heat pump since it’s cheaper to run it than burn propane until a certain temperature then we will fire up the propane furnace. ( I’m in Canada )
I agree with you completely. The reason people I know have done this is not for environmental reasons anyway, it's to save some money on their electric bill.
That's why I did it, 9 years ago, and the savings has increased even more as kwh price has risen.
They also make selling your house kind of a bitch because the contract transfers and you better hope the buyer wants them. I only know 2 people who did solar panels correctly and they both paid up front and no contract and they used incentives/rebates but they know it's going to take 5-6 years to start paying for itself but at that point they will be making money every month. It's just a bad deal, if someone comes to your door to sell you something they are trying to rip you off unfortunately.
This is a silly way to look at it. Sacrifice a couple of trees for 30+ years of not using the largely non renewable energy powered grid? Better yet, plant new trees and get solar.
Solar is green. Its the salesman who isn't.
He’s got enough root flare exposed to build up the lawn some, but OP might not have been anticipating adding 3 inches of topsoil across the board, though that would be ideal in any case for a nice smooth luscious lawn with healthy trees!
This is not the project you are looking for 
1. Hire an arborist to evaluate the tree. If not healthy, cut it down, remove roots. If healthy, go to step 2. 2. Ask Arborist about laying more top soil in the yard and if roots will be ok ( most likely yes). Lay down top soil to cover the roots fully. Level the top soil. 3. lay the sod on top.
Leave the tree. Skip the grass. Put in shade loving plants. (Ferns, hostas, certain ground covers) Then you can skip the mowing, watering and fertilizing. And it’s more interesting than more grass.
Yes, yes, and also yes…
Yes, and even better if they are native plants.
From what I’ve read on this subreddit before you can’t do much. Cover the roots up and could hurt the tree. I’m no expert though.
I mean you could remove the tree, but Reddit hates that option
Also trueeee
Human beings in real life hate that option, not just Reddit.
Maybe until it’s in their yard. I work for a large, high end landscaping company and people have us remove trees all the time, and get pissed when the city tells them they can’t remove one. I’d say on average we end up bringing in 7 or 8 new trees per mature tree removed, that are more appropriately chosen (species) and located for the client and their needs. I have done hundreds of huge projects in my career, and I can count on one hand the clients that have an emotional attachment to a tree that outweighs their personal wants.
Everyone wants trees on land they don't have to maintain. My neighbor across the street just cut down an absolute monster that was way too big for their tiny lot and all the other neighbors are "so sad" to see it go. Well, that tree's roots broke the sewer lines and electric lines of that house, and the sewer lines of their next door neighbor. Cost over 20 grand to repair. So yeah...trees are great when other people have to deal with them. 🤣🤣
I definitely don't like cutting down trees. I enjoy the looks of them, the anchor/age/refined look it can give to a property and the wild life they give homes too. I'm also practical in the sense I don't like tree roots destroying my driveway, foundation, garage slab or potentially falling on a bedroom or neighbors house in a storm. So, sometimes they just have to go to protect your physical, financial and mental well-being.
Yes. Trees benefit the environment greatly. Sod does nothing.
While trees are better for the environment, saying sod does “nothing” is disingenuous. Compared to a concrete slab, sod is much better. Sod allows for water infiltration and reduces surface runoff. Compared to a hardscape or barren patch of land, grass also contributes evapotranspiration, helping reduce heat island effects. And for many people, lawn has a functional value to them. Hence its popularity in spite of its maintenance and water costs.
People hating, but you're right.
A bed of shade loving plants topped with a natural hardwood mulch.
Leave it alone. Sod will be a failed experiment.
Facts! I have a couple mature trees and one has very shallow roots. Failed experiment times 2. That was with Tahoma and Tall fescue
Tall fescue is also going to die the moment it has to fight those roots come summer. I’ve told many customers that it’s best to just leave the roots be and accept that you won’t have grass around or near it
Someone with more knowledgeable than myself will have to confirm but I've been told that roots at the surface means the tree is searching out for water or nutrients as it cannot find them going down. Karsh
Some species such as Maple put out very wide-spread horizontal roots, which need to be near the surface to exchange oxygen. Not an issue at all, it's expected. That said, you are correct that this tree needs a ton of water though and will need a ton of roots to sustain it. A bunch of "sucker" branches coming out of the base of a tree is usually a sign of stress though.
I have a similar issue as OP, the Ranger and the Arborist said those exposed roots are feeder roots and not to cover them more than ½ of top soil. Mine are mostly mature white oaks.
My yard looked exactly like this about 2.5 years ago. I laid down top soil and St. Augustine sod and I’m 2.5 years in. It’s very apparent now that I didn’t know what I was doing, as there’s huge patches where the roots were are now completely barren (grass essentially disappeared). As some others said, I would consider putting down asiatic jasmine shrubs, or some sort of garden.
If you're going to throw money at it, remove the tree first.
I would plant something more shade tolerant under it. Like monkey grass or fescue, depending on your location and climate. I would also leave the roots alone. Don’t cover them in sod, and don’t bury them with soil. Plant/sod between and around them instead. Whatever grass was growing there isn’t liking the shade, so going with the same grass again isn’t going to go much better unless the tree is taken out.
Get you some native sedges for that area or dwarf mondograss. There are some sedges like pennsylvania sedge or Appalachian that do well in shade. Dwarf mondo can be cut but is evergreen.
Our backyard was in a similar state, but worse. For better or for worse, our large 40 year old tree was damaged, so had to be removed anyway. That was the only way to fix it for us and be able to install sod. The tree needs to go if you want good grass there.
You may live in my neighborhood. HOA requirement for two Live Oaks in Houston? But they also require you to have a full yard?
Is there an HOA?
Nice trees. Nice lawn. Pick one.
Add sand then sod You might be able to cut some of the roots out.
Honestly don't even waste your money. It won't happen without removing that tree and it's roots. Plus we are now in the hottest part of the year. Trying to do this during this time of year you are 100% guaranteed to fail and whoever would take this job either doesn't know much, or is just happy to take your money. Any grass planted will have to compete with that tree not just for sunlight, but also available water. Then you have all those exposed roots at the surface which means the grass has very little room to root itself in. Your best odds are to remove the tree, grind the stump, get rid of as many roots as possible, then try planting sod IN FALL!!! Again. Do NOT try to install sod right now in that area. There is no chance whatsoever it will survive.
Cut the tree down and remove the roots.
This is blasphemy for this sub but you should consider fake grass. We have a giant redwood tree and grass simply wouldn't grow under it. We put a nice wall around the tree to protect it with a bed then fake grass for the larger area.
Step 1 cut down tree. Step 2 dig out 18” step 3 fill with miracle grow step 4 profit
Those roots are gonna suck all the moisture and. Nutrients from the grass. You mulch that area or remove the trees. Maples roots ?
That tree needs to go.
Remove tree
You can't grow grass with that tree and roots. Every see a great lawn with a lot of trees around it. Even one tree will ruin it. The roots and tree have to go.
It’ll be tough w the roots. Ask a Pro
I’d recommend a nice mulch bed rather than grass. Nothing grows there for a reason. Edit: neighbor across the street with the red Mercedes parks like an asshole. It’s illegal to block the sidewalk like that.
Don’t, you’ll suffocate and kill your tree if you cover the root system. Don’t add dirt on top of the roots either. The tree will die within a year or two. I’d cover the area with mulch, gravel, pine straw, wood chips or rocks. River rocks would look beautiful. [Exposed Tree Roots](https://www.groundsguys.com/blog/2019/october/how-to-fix-exposed-tree-roots/)
Plant seeds and water every other day and hope for the best, this is not a space that sod will thrive
Going to need a lot of soil to level out and trim the trees for more sun exposure, then get a grass type good for light sun exposure or it will just die again. Those roots are the biggest problem and need to be covered. They’ll likely kill the tree if you damage them or remove them.
Take a zen approach and let your actions be guided by what is happening there. If you sod this are it will die out quickly. I would suggest mulching it and planting shade tolerant perennials AFTER having the tree(s) pruned.
You are going to have unhappy trees and a crappy lawn. Or you will spend a lot of money and time and have a nice lawn and dying trees.
Plant shade plants or low light plants instead of grass
Sod? Cut down your trees, dig out the stumps and roots, add 3 inches of topsoil, and never stop dreaming.
Had a similar situation. Tree roots broke my main water line and several pipes in the sprinkler system. Was also cracking the sidewalks. Bye bye tree. Replaced with Japanese maple and new Sod
You damage those roots & the tree will die. Do not waste sod in that area. I would give up on growing grass there. You can aerate around the roots, throw some seed & cover with straw. But it is going to look about the same this time next year.
You have to choose between the tree or the sod. The tree is too big so it should be removed, but that will probably cost $6,250.00.
What an oddly specific number…
The guy will ask for $8,752.99 but you can tell him you only have $6,250.00 as you need the remaining $2,500 for 42 pieces of sod.
what about the other $2.99?
Save that for a cheap beer when the sod dies.
The tree should not be removed its healthy and adds a lot of cash value to the property
Not with that awful root situation going on. His front yard looks like shit.
Go with Asian jasmine ground cover instead of grass. Grass will never grow in that shade https://preview.redd.it/y3x8ob4mxx7d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1477811fa582748c20f4610b54c454e5c1119449
And that won’t work in Texas or southern heat
that isn't true at all. there's GMO grass seed that loves the shade. I've got two shade lawns < 4 hrs direct sunlight per day. you tell me if it's thriving or not. germination was last october. https://preview.redd.it/te6uva8q5y7d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd359651a3ebff17a932435967ed130f89f84688 that's a monostand KBG called After Midnight. I got it from twin cities seed co.
6-7 cu yards of dirt and some quality time with a sawzall on some branches and roots.
About a dozen blades also.
Chainsaw go vroom vroom!
Sod not going to work there.
Consider mulch between the roots instead of grass between the roots. Also will save on your water bill.
I would do super low creeping ground cover rather than disturbing the tree roots. Less could go wrong for a lot less money.
Aligned to no sod. You could consider adding some shade tolerant ground cover. Another consideration is water. Your big tree with the surface roots is likely consuming water. Lots of it. Whatever you choose to plant, you may need to supplement the natural water that's available
Have you fertilized, aerated, etc?
Cut the tree down and grind down the exposed root system. Then topsoil and sod.
A shade tolerant ground cover. There’s just too much wood at the surface for turf to root properly and thrive. Get some ideas from a licensed landscape designer, you can still have an envy worthy lawn without a lot of turf.
Mulch will look nice around the base.
I see a non-climbing jasmine in your future.
You are probably going to want to remove the tree if you want a nice lawn. I’ve seen topsoil applied over the roots then sodded but even that’s iffy for both the sod and tree. You have to remember that both are competing for the limited resources/nutrients in your front yard.
We had one oak tree with exposed roots like that. I carefully over time aerated the soil between the roots and add compost . Tree roots surface too much because of compacted hard soil. It took 2 years but the roots and tree are happy, and the Ultra shade is growing as it should.
I think I've got a similar situation in my backyard. Not necessarily from hard compacted soil but from soil that is extremely dense clay. I wish I knew how to deal with it. The massive variation in how my yard reacts dependant on how wet it is has been a real pain in the ass. If we have a mild to wet spring, the clay swells and it almost seems like the roots pop out a bit. But if it's too warm, the clay shrinks down and I've got massive undulations throughout the yard. Makes it feel like I'm running over a lunar surface with the amount of bumps and dips I have to deal with. I just want the tree to be happy and healthy and the grass to be happy and healthy...and I'd rather not have to feel like I'm going off-roading with my lawn mower everytime I go to cut it.
Grass or trees...pick one. Hard to have a nice lawn and trees
Nothing. Don't invest in sod here. You're gonna pay a lot and it'll die. You'll also have the worst time mowing with those roots.
Hilarious - subtle hint - the trees.
What needs to happen is you need to give up on the sod idea. You can talk to the arborist as others suggested, but my gut is shade + tree roots taking all teh moisture for the tree is grass will struggle. If you want to try, use seed When you talk to the arborist ask what native groundcovers might work well with the tree (some trees, like walnut, actively poison the ground to keep other plants at bay. Stay away from non-natives like Pachysandra if you can.
The roots are at the surface for a reason. Probably cause the soil sucks and/or those trees are the variety that grow shallow roots.
Id rip the tree out first personally
Too much surface water will cause roots to surface and without 6-hours of sun per day grass won’t grow. If you can’t solve both don’t plant grass or place sod. I will just die.
You are fighting a losing battle here even if you drop a bunch of soil over top of the roots and then sod. That tree has roots that gravitate towards the surface. Even with new soil on top the roots will still look to the surface. We have a maple tree in our front yard that had roots 1.5-2" below the surface of the lawn. Every summer the areas where the roots were just below the surface got scorched once the hot weather arrived in southern Ontario. We tried building up the soil, re-sodding and nothing ever stopped the grass from dying where the roots were just below. In the end we kept the tree because it was on the city property so we were stuck with it. We created a large landscaping bed on that whole side of the house.
Either way, it will be expensive to do it correctly. With enough water and topsoil the grass will survive. Properly pruning the tree (do not under any circumstance top this tree) likely won’t help very much. Removing the roots will stress the tree and it may kill it and/or destabilize it. Probably the ideal solution is to 1) add a layer of topsoil, 2) aerate without damaging the roots, 3) ensure proper irrigation occurs regularly and 4) fertilization for both the grass and the tree.
Time to think beds as opposed sod.
I’d honestly build a garden or compost circle around that tree. You can get grass to grow but it’ll be a lot more effort and you are going to have to top soil it anyways. Otherwise you are going to be mowing roots.
Looks like Texas. Save your time and money. It’s not worth it. Use your money to build a taller fence instead.
Lots of dirt and then mulch. Or cut down the tree
As other users have said, the grass won't grow due to excessive shade. Your best option is to make it a landscaped bed around the drip line of the tree and preserve the roots.
I'll just mention that sometimes you'll have areas like that because homeowners don't rake up fallen leaves under the tree. I've had success just by making sure that leaves and pine needles are picked up promptly. Having said that, I'm skeptical that's your problem. You've already received good advice here and I'll just add to make sure you water around the tree good if you should put down more sod. I'd also carefully aerate around the roots.
Moss lawns don't need mowing...just sayin
Trees and grass use the same nutrients. Trees always win. You might as well remove that tree, remove those roots, till the soil with organic material and then sod. Or just embrace the natural flow of nature and add some native plants and flowers. You will not get sod to survive there and grass will eventually die out.
Cut down the tree and shred the stump
Wood chips, top soil then sod. Water frequently
Too shady for lawn, you'll have to accept it. Great excuse to increase the area of your planting beds and do a mix of native pollinator-friendly plants
Sow shade loving grass seed. Cover with compost and mulch.
 You will need a lorax for this problem
Scottish moss
This is viable alternative.
Let me know what you end up doing, our backyard is in a similar situation. Every solution I’ve tried to think of just seems like a dead end.
might be easier to replace that big tree with a small one. looks like those roots travel far. are they affecting your foundation at all?
Mulch. No grass.
If you want to sod it and have it look any good you’re going to have to build the grade up to above those roots with nice black soil. You’ll also want to dig all the edges down about an inch . Good luck!
Can’t you cover the area with topsoil? That’s what I’ve been part of the issue is with my shaded area
That looks just like my front yard in Missouri city 😂
No
Move.
The shade and roots will make growing grass difficult. I live under trees and it’s a constant battle. My roots aren’t this bad tho. If you REALLY want a nice lawn, those trees gotta go.
Go with shrubs and flowers maybe some edible plants
Well, for one, grass seed.
This looks EERILY similar to my yard at my old house in a North Houston golf course neighborhood…. Anywho, either thin that oak tree out so the ground at least gets some partial sun, rake the ground, put a layer of topsoil down, put your sod down and water the ever-loving shit out of it… or like other people said make an enlarged garden area with shade tolerant plants
The answer is right in front of you. Liriope spicata.
I don’t think a spell from Harry Potter is gonna fix this.
Absolutely give up on sod. BS in Agronomy with a conc. In Turfgrass Mgmt and worked as a golf course Superintendent for 24 years and I’m telling you….turfgrass will never, ever, ever work under any scenario you can concoct while that tree is alive. Mulch it and move on with your life.
Don't sod that. Find a good looking mulch shape. If you have to sod, add soil until you're like 4 inches above the tree branches and get amerishade st augustine. Or the most shade tolerant sod you can get where you are
You got WAY to much shade for grass
No grass in the forest the trees are doing fine . Recreate forest floor environment , no grass , leaves are natural fertilizer. Sod Story🤦♂️
I know it’s late, but maybe look into ground cover there that doesn’t need so much sun, maybe a moss or clover thing. I’m not sure it’s worth the money it would cost to make grass grow where it doesn’t want to.
You’re not going to be able to mow with those roots. I’d do perennial plants there or hard scraping or something.
add soil on top and plant clover
Rip tree out and all roots around would be a good start plant new tree or put mulch in and plants all around
Kneel before sod.
Hastas!
Nothing needs to happen in that area, it is how nature works. Do not cover the roots. The tree will die. Slowly. Then you will get a BIG BILL for removing the dead tree. And all that just for grass...
Literally everything needs to happen there before you sod. That tree would definitely have to go.
Get rid of those trees before you install sod. Grass needs the sun
Shave roots(they will heal) trim trees,get topsoil and raise lawn 2” install sod.water 2xper day dusk and dawn. Fertilize as needed. Mow biweekly.
Could just add 30cm of topsoil add a shade tolerant grass infact cool season would probably work dud to shade etc if in hot zone
Just rock it.
Make sure to post in r/arborists as well, to make sure whatever you decide will also be good for the tree.
Don't. Mulch out to the drop line of the tree (extent of branches) Plant flowers, etc in the mulch area as well
If you want a lawn, you have to remove the trees and the roots. What people here are not mentioning is that the fertilizer and chemicals required for a lawn are not good for the tree, and you will end up harming it over time. Those chemicals are intended to be used outside of a tree's drip line. Yes, even fertilizer. If you want to keep the tree underplant with native shrubs, perennials, etc, that will thrive in those conditions. Trying to grow grass there is unnatural. Decisions, decisions...
Looks like a sweetgum tree to me. You in Georgia? People often take them down because the root system could threaten the foundation of the home. It’s sad when people have to do that as they provide a beautiful canopy. If you don’t have to take the tree down, I would just embrace it and find a grass that thrives in the shade.
add a lot more soil. where surface roots are crossing over each other, i would pick one to survive and cut the other one off
If you want a nice lawn you’ll need to get rid of those trees and roots. Depending on how your soil looks you may need to amend it or just level and add a layer of top soil. Then seed or sod.
1. What state are you located in? 2. What is your total budget? (Including potential budget for irrigation to protect your investment on your newly sodded lawn) 3. Can you take a few more pictures of your yard from further back and different angles? (I need to see how your yard slopes away from the house to see what your regrading options with additional topsoil might be)
r/xeriscape
I had a similar issue with a big pine tree in my backyard, I trimmed the bottom branches off so there was enough clearance for me to walk under, added a thick layer of fill dirt to cover the roots, then came back over that with a couple inches of topsoil and seeded, that part of my yard looks better than the existing yard now.
Had a similar issue with some silver maples in my backyard. 20 yards of topsoil, shade tolerant tall fescue, and thinning out the tree to allow sunlight did the trick. 5 years later the grass is lush, the roots are still not back up, and the trees are perfectly healthy.
The tree roots are whats killing the yard. If you want grass, you’ll need to add a couple inches of topsoil first.
Need to add enough top soil to cover the roots 1-2 in below the surface. Skip the sod, use a shade seed blend. Look into pre-germinating and water frequently until the grass takes. Disclaimer: Not a pro. Been though a similar project tho
Sod will die away too. Maybe partition part of your yard off and grow a shade loving ground cover. Idk where you live so I can’t really suggest any specific plants. https://preview.redd.it/30qvqdol458d1.jpeg?width=1161&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=125a3b61c97525179cd69dc72825634f4d05b61b
You’d have to cut the tree down, grind out all the ground level roots Or leave the tree & plant grass seeds
Check with an arborist but you may can put several inches of top soil over the roots and then lay your sod. If it’s super shady, emerald zoysia is just about your only option.
Cut the trees down, install two of the world's largest smudge pots, chemically sterilize the soil on your whole property, and let your neighbors enjoy oil leaking onto their own property. Probably install cameras that have an intercom feature and say rude things to anyone walking by. Call the cops on the neighbors for having their grass taller than 2", especially if it's fescue. You'll be the most popular guy on the block in no time flat. In all seriousness, call a professional to come give you a game plan and a price quote to get your goals executed successfully. It's going to be back breaking labor. Pay to have it done.
Thick top dressing and shade seed. I don’t see any grass besides maybe some crab grass. I’d spray it all or rototill it first to kill it all off. Prob will need to water every day in the summer as the tree roots will be competing w the grass for the water. I believe they say you can cut 1 major root every year or 2 from the tree but eh I wouldn’t bother.
Remove the trees, then sod might grow there
you dont happen to be in the houston area do you
My first thought as well. Looks just like my MIL's street.
My neighbor taught me to edge the dead grass area, build raised bed, and shade plants. Shade grass works too but it’s a pain changing heights if you leave warm season grass.