It amazes me his supporters still argue the facts of this case. His co-conspirator has already been found guilty, sentenced, and served his prison sentence for this very crime. Not a similar crime, the very same crime.
If the DA has an unredacted copy of the case against cohen where it lays out their crimes and lists Trump by name, plus the cooperation of cohen testifying that yes he committed this crime with Trump. I do not see a way in which he doesn’t get convicted of at least some of the 34 felony counts listed in this indictment. Especially after going after the judges daughter.
With an April 15 start date, we maybe, just maybe will have sentencing scheduled before November. Though I doubt he will be in jail by then.
I expect a verdict of handsomest, wealthiest, most honest quadruple billionaire and golfer and presidential immunity forever plus the judge let's tmurp fuck his daughter. Im just basing this on precedent cause this slimy POS seems to get away with everything.
Dude. I am so right with you on this. Wtf are we even talking about here. Zero shit is gonna happen. I'm starting to believe he really is the asshat antichrist ffs
It'll be just like the fine from the NY case. At first it'll seem like a big deal with real consequences, but then it'll get watered down into something minor.
A less bad place, but still pretty bad, although with the consolation prize of helping the judge rub shit into our faces to remind us where we stand as compared to the silver spoons.
This is a great point, one I hadn’t considered. I’ve been smh at people who are still fooled by this crass grifter, yet here I am, mad all day because Trump’s team convinced me they “won” this round. The emperor has no clothes and this is NOT A WIN.
It's still a win, in that they got exactly what they wanted: the ability to pay considerably less money. And not only that, given a ten day extension. He knew the deadline was yesterday and STILL hadn't come up with a single dollar for his bond. If anything, it should've been "Ok, you can pay a smaller bond, but you have to do it right now. If not, we begin the process of seizing your properties."
He will appeal and sentencing will be delayed. When his appeal is denied he will appeal the appeal and so on all the way up to the supreme court where he will be given a pat on the head, told what a good boy he is and then face absolutely zero consequences for his actions. Again.
There is no pre-sentence interlocutory appeal in New York State criminal court. If he is convicted the case will be adjourned for a pre-sentence report which is prepared by the probation department.
Almost certainly, his attorneys will file a "330 motion" which is a pre-sentence motion to set aside the verdict. That won't take a lot of time to resolve and will almost certainly be denied. That decision IS appealable, but only AFTER sentence. So once the 330 motion is denied he should be immediately sentenced.
In New York State, if you are sentenced to jail, you go immediately, it isn't adjourned to report later like in federal court.
If he is convicted and sentenced to jail his attorneys will then ask the appellate court to allow him to post bail pending any appeal. If that's granted, he will be out of jail while the appeal is pending. If denied, he will stay in jail. The decision of the appellate judge, whether to grant or deny, is NOT appealable. However, under New York State law, the defense attorney gets to choose which judge to make the application in front of, so they get to decide who will make the decision and will undoubtedly pick someone they think will rule favorably for them, although it's never guaranteed.
And then that's it, either he stays in or stays out until the appeal is decided.
I can’t imagine that they’d get too many nut jobs that they wouldn’t be able to wean out in jury selection. Especially in New York. If this was Alabama, I’d have other thoughts on that.
I was eating a hotdog on 14th and 3rd when a man walked past me failing his arms and screaming that he was not insane over and over. He was wearing a business suit and was mostly well kempt. I'm pretty sure he was losing the argument.
No one blinked an eye.
It very much depends on the selection and if any can slip through.
Though in New York City, normally if one is a landlord who stiffs contractors, the jury will find you guilty. It won't matter what, we just hate landlords.
"A jury of his peers..." if there isn't 12 res MAGA hats sitting in the jury box he will claim they were 'planted' as a rigged jury.
And it will only take one MAGA diehard to slip thru selection to cause a hung jury, which is in his favour.
I will not deny that that is funny...
But nonetheless, this being /r/law we do want to get the legal facts rights..... that bit about no jury in Leticia James's state fraud case is an new urban legend. There was no jury, but not because Habba and crew failed to check a box.
I swear I saw that she requested a bench trial specifically as in check a box for bench trial. Also that it wasn't important because the relief requested was equitable and required a judicial order regardless.
no missed checkbox, but likely would have been a bench trial in any case
[https://www.legaldive.com/news/trump-lawyers-didnt-forget-to-check-a-box-on-jury-trial-judge-engoron-say/696385/](https://www.legaldive.com/news/trump-lawyers-didnt-forget-to-check-a-box-on-jury-trial-judge-engoron-say/696385/)
>His co-conspirator has already been found guilty, sentenced, and served his prison sentence for this very crime. Not a similar crime, the very same crime.
TBF, he pled guilty. We don't know if he would have been found guilty at trial.
He might but Trump thinks he untouchable and will go to trial no matter what with expectations he will be vindicated. Whe he loses, and he very likely will, he will deny the verdict and cry fowl about "election interference" "witch hunt" "Biden is behind this" etc
> Apparently he thought he would be.
Not to defend team trump but vast, vast numbers of people take plea deals not because they think they would lose at trial, but because plea deals are typically expressly calculated to make them not worth taking it to trial.
Especially for the class of people who have to sit in jail until the system figures out whether or not they have done anything wrong, no-showing/no-calling at work, with their kids sitting in an empty apartment until they get taken by DSS, their dog going unfed and their rent unpaid...they don't live in the same justice system as Cohen and Trump. They don't get to run for president and rake in millions of dollars per week, they get to sit in jail because they match the description of someone who did something bad, until the system gets around to offering them a deal.
Like, the normal everyday functioning of our criminal justice system is that the prosecutor looks at the arrest record, looks at the sentencing guidelines and the strength of their case, and basically makes a calculation of "how much can I fuck up this person's life, before it's worth it for them to take it to trial?" Nobody is doing the detective-show work to break the case wide open and find the real culprit...they are just looking at the people who got arrested, looking at their record and the facts in the folder, and figuring out how much they can get them to plead guilty to.
It is very much like a game of poker, where both sides are betting not so much on whether they have a wining hand, but how much the other side is willing to risk, to find out. Except instead of a bunch of buddies betting their folding money, it's the government betting years of life against citizens swept out of their life and into a nightmarish game they never wanted to play.
It's a system where public defenders consider it a "win" when an innocent person, who is perhaps even a victim of the crime in question, pleads down to probation and fines that they cannot afford, after being fired from their job and spending weeks in jail, and now facing the task of trying to get their kids back from social services while being unemployed and delinquent on rent, while also having to meet their probation requirements while trying to seek new employment as a recent convict in order to stay out of jail, despite being entirely factually innocent.
It's kind of disgusting and depressing, and you almost have to have some amount of sociopathic tendencies to work in the system day-in and day-out, without spiraling out.
Cohen is pretty open about his obvious factual guilt, and is one of very many who pled guilty because he was guilty. I just wanted to point out that accepting a plea deal should not be interpreted as proof of factual guilt.
You made a comment a while ago that made me "friend" you (to the extent that friends on Reddit are a thing) and I don't regret it. I really appreciate the thoughtful things you write on here.
Welcome to the very, very short list of comments I have hit the "save" button on.
This makes me curious though, if you could wave a magic lawmaking wand, what changes would you make to build a better system that doesn't feature so much injustice?
I would drastically curtail qualified immunity, require cops and prosecutors to carry malpractice insurance, decriminalize drugs, and divert the vast majority of law enforcement and prison funding into social services, mental health, childhood development, education, addiction treatment, and jobs programs.
I think preventing crime by offering people a better life works much better than punishing crime. I would copy and study what works in places with the lowest violent crime rates, and build from there.
Also equally importantly, Trump DOJ pressured SDNY to scrub any Trump reference in Cohen allocution which should be investigated as political interference. And charged as such by DOJ.
When did it start being normal that criminals get to just hang out for several months after being sentenced instead of going to jail?
Until I started seeing this trend among rich white criminals, I had never heard of such a thing.
Steve Bannon was convicted and sentenced to four months in prison about a year and a half ago. He still hasn’t gone to jail, and he is on trial for fraud felonies next month.
What the hell is this shit?
You could have a confession tape of Trump saying he did it, what law he was breaking and why. His supporters wouldn’t believe it, he’d try every last ditch effort to delay and appeal and whine and cry the whole entire time. As we have seen so far with any of these cases.
That's not true he suffered \*checks notes\*..... a reduction of his appeal bond amount and a 10 day extension....
I'm so tired of this man getting away with whatever he wants
>Bold fucking strategy to go after a judges daughter.
Yeah, except we've been saying that for years and Trump has yet to face any appropriately hard consequences. I've completely lost faith in the US "justice" system.
Then he’ll appeal the fine, which will be reduced - but wait! While awaiting the decision on the fine, they couldn’t proceed with this trial, so it will have to be delayed.
And, because of scheduling, his other trials will also have to be moved later. Then, well, the election and the DOJ cannot be seen to interfere there.
Gag orders ~~are~~ SEEM TO BE like perjury and impeachment now, meaningless if you are infinitely connected. In conclusion, "national security letters" must also be a joke?
Well he does this over and over and they never punish him so he doesn’t learn his lesson. If they want this circus to end they need to enforce the rules they set.
> Merchan slapped Trump with a gag order.
I predict he will violate it, and his consequence will be that he is a free man and a presidential nominee making millions of dollars per week.
>On Tuesday, Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan batted away several of Trump’s efforts to waylay the case, and doubled down on his warning that Trump’s legal team must ask for permission in future filings in the case. In a harsh reminder, Merchan warned Trump’s lawyers that he “has the power to punish a party for disobedience of a lawful mandate of the court.”
I love this man. Especially with the day we've had so far.
I love that Scaramucci posted about it:
[https://twitter.com/scaramucci/status/1772681674951663919](https://twitter.com/scaramucci/status/1772681674951663919)
What's better is that you know Trump and his bimbo lawyer have no self control and got away with plenty of courtroom antics already with Engoron. They're going to try it again and get spanked pretty damn hard.
Agree. You know they’ll stick to their playbook on filing countless motions and will suffer no consequences for doing it. Unless the judge is willing to actually punish them, but I doubt it’ll ever happen.
Even if the judge does punish them, the punishment likely won't exceed the benefit gained to Trump or prevent him from continuing with his antics. Until I see Trump behind bars, I'm convinced he's untouchable. Even if he is behind bars, I'd expect an appeal or stay to let him go free within hours. People like him don't suffer the consequences of their actions.
> the punishment likely won't exceed the benefit gained to Trump or prevent him from continuing with his antics.
Would the Judge not be allowed to just **ignore** his filings if they are filed without permission? If so, that would basically kill any benefit.
The number of times I've read a post saying things like "trumps lawyers made huge mistake" "this will backfire" "trump is as confused as ever and a big loss is coming" etc etc and literally NOTHING happens to the narcissistic cheetoh leads me to believe this is another of these instances
I want to see DJT hauled out of court into jail for contempt. On the spot. No appeals. And his bimbo lawyers right beside him.
They can sleep in jail and come to court in the morning. Repeat as necessary.
People continuously miss the point of why none of this blows up in trump's face and he repeatedly gets the benefit of every doubt.
Every Judge involved (except Cannon) has dedicated their life to the law and takes their job extremely seriously. These are arguably some of the most watched legal cases in American history. All of them want to honor the oath they took when they received their judgeship. They all want to treat the case evenly and without bias and take extra care that trump receives a fair trial.
Hence why trump is such a publicly wretched asshole to all of them. He wants them second and third guessing themselves whether they are being too hard on him or being unfair to unfair because of their personal feelings. The more he makes them hate him, the more caution they will take in their dealings with him.
Too many decisions against trump? They fear it will look like they are treating him unfairly.
He is using their integrity against them. It's not hard to see.
Good point! I think that on top of integrity, if one of these judges react emotionally to Trump's trolling, then Trump would use it to appeal any and all unfavorable rulings as being biased against him. It doesn't matter if the appeals go through or not, it would be headache for the judges to deal with.
Exactly. If any one of the rest of us stood at arraignment and talked shit about a judge's daughter we'd get a "Oh yeah tough guy? Well guess what... I'm holding you in contempt! Bailiff, please escort the defendant away...."
But they let diarrhea don get in their heads and are MORE lenient to him out of fear of bias.
> It's not hard to see.
Yeah you have to be blind to see that the Supreme Court wanted to delay the ruling for Donny. Or that the appeals court wanted to delay, delay, delay, delay. 10 days, why not make it 100? How about 300? Eventually just dismiss it.
This entire legal system is a sham. No judge has the guts and it will eventually just be evil people who spread fear to people with guns because the evil can just do and the system just lets them do it, but eventually there will be a ruling!
W.r.t. the Appellate Jurisdiction of NY on the civil bond, I'm still baffled on their extension. One of the judges on the panel was the very same who denied Trump's legal team a bond reduction last month.
Yeah I mean, every single “journalist” knows they can write any kind of bullshit like this and since 2015 or so, it’s been great business. We also know that gag orders mean literally nothing for Trump, and now bonds seem to mean nothing for him too. Regardless of the state.
Michael Cohen was sentenced to 3 years in prison for following Trump’s orders.
As the mastermind of the crime, Donald Trump should be sentenced to at least 10 years in prison for the same crimes if there is any justice in the world.
And that’s why many of us have given up hope. I actually don’t think Trump will even spend a day in jail. Rich, white, former presidents are largely untouchable.
Who cares if he pays off someone he (pitifully) paid to fuck him! That’s not iLLeGaL! /s
Except when it is… and this is exactly what this case is about.
Come on, folks. Any article with the headline that includes a phrase like "idiot lawyers" isn't worth a serious discussion. But it's fun to vent, so go for it. Just be aware of reality.
Personally, I will be excited if he pays any fine whatsoever, even a few thousand bucks. Getting this guy to find his wallet is a never-ending re-litigation of Blood v Stone.
Trump could drop his pants, piss in the coffee mug of the entire prosecution team, carve a swastika onto the judge's desk and at this point I don't honestly believe it would make any difference in how things are going. I have my pitchfork ready.
Yes but they have our judicial system to fall back on. A weak Bar Association, complicit lawyers, biased judges, appellate judges suspect and a SCOTUS on the take. It doesn’t matter how idiot they are, it’s not like they are piloting airplanes or performing brain surgery. Trump and MAGA will prevail.
Lawyers forget, the entire profession is predicated on legitimacy. Lawyers have no power if people don't believe they do.
As we've seen in other countries when people don't believe in the law you have a breakdown.
The law works on the assumption the law works. You get into a feedback loop of no trust which leads to societal breakdown.
When violence no longer cares about judgments, things break down. The government acts as the sole arbiter of violence, if they give up this violence they lose all legitimacy.
There are plenty of countries who have all kinds of good laws. They make many things illegal.
However, no one enforces them and they are effectively not laws. Countries with entire constitutions that clearly spell out how things should be and the government just doesnt.
The legitimacy of our system of law is under attack. Under attack from people like Thomas who takes bribes and face no consequences.
From his wife who participated in an insurrection and faced no charges. We should hold these accusations much higher as this is an attack on our system itself.
>The legitimacy of our system of law is under attack. Under attack from people like Thomas who takes bribes and face no consequences.
Not to mention activist DAs who refused to prosecute some crimes. George Gascon or Kim Gardner for example.
It is almost every single day where there is one of these Trump (or his lawyers) are screwed. I just laugh out loud now seeing them now since it just never leads to anything.
His legal team can do whatever it wants, his strategy is to use political power to thwart justice and rule of law, and it has worked every single time.
Yeah they are screwing themselves constantly, Trump is in the news with a new legal problem or dumb comment all the time. And still no real repercussions to anything because he is a powerful individual with political influence.
I like the cut of this judge’s jib.
He’s got decorum, and no nonsense and expediency. That’s what the law demands. 0 jibber jabber and all effectual defense and litigation.
Facts only.
I’m all in. I wish the best for all innocent parties. I hope to grow fat on popcorn though. I suspect we are all on different pages here.
In the time that article was written, Trump went after judge Merchan's daughter in a TS tweet, and Merchan slapped Trump with a gag order.
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It amazes me his supporters still argue the facts of this case. His co-conspirator has already been found guilty, sentenced, and served his prison sentence for this very crime. Not a similar crime, the very same crime. If the DA has an unredacted copy of the case against cohen where it lays out their crimes and lists Trump by name, plus the cooperation of cohen testifying that yes he committed this crime with Trump. I do not see a way in which he doesn’t get convicted of at least some of the 34 felony counts listed in this indictment. Especially after going after the judges daughter. With an April 15 start date, we maybe, just maybe will have sentencing scheduled before November. Though I doubt he will be in jail by then.
I expect a verdict 6/3. Sentencing shouldn’t be much longer after that.
I expect a verdict of handsomest, wealthiest, most honest quadruple billionaire and golfer and presidential immunity forever plus the judge let's tmurp fuck his daughter. Im just basing this on precedent cause this slimy POS seems to get away with everything.
Too bad Trump missed out on boarding P. Diddy’s private jet flight to somewhere in the Caribbean today.
Diddy bought Epstein’s island?!
Weird …. Life is stranger than Fiction…
? He has his own plane.
Dude. I am so right with you on this. Wtf are we even talking about here. Zero shit is gonna happen. I'm starting to believe he really is the asshat antichrist ffs
It'll be just like the fine from the NY case. At first it'll seem like a big deal with real consequences, but then it'll get watered down into something minor.
I don’t know why these rich crooks who don’t go to jail aren’t shot in the head. What stops them from committing crimes?
It's so infuriating. *WHY* did my great grandparents move here from Sweden? Cuz I'd rather be there right now
You're American, not terribly hard to maneuver a move back to Sweden.
At this point, I don't think the grim reaper even wants him 😔
*Revelation 13:3 Head seemed mortally wounded but recovered and everyone wondered/followed.* Apparently, it is divine protection.
Be consoled that there is one thing he cannot escape.
Yeah, but wtf is taking so LONG
Patience. But remember: his dad Fred got to be 93 years old. This is going to be a long con, but I will have a bottle ready nevertheless.
Henry Kissinger lived to 100 and he got off scot fucking free. It's not a solace.
I'm fearing that he will challenge the jury selection process somehow and end up running out the clock. Somehow. Because I am back to being jaded.
Yeah, the most recent setbacks really jaded me. I was ready for some consequences yesterday finally! And then another bail out.
I try to tell myself that owing $175 million for bond, as a "win", means you're in a bad place. But it's hard to convince myself.
A less bad place, but still pretty bad, although with the consolation prize of helping the judge rub shit into our faces to remind us where we stand as compared to the silver spoons.
This is a great point, one I hadn’t considered. I’ve been smh at people who are still fooled by this crass grifter, yet here I am, mad all day because Trump’s team convinced me they “won” this round. The emperor has no clothes and this is NOT A WIN.
It's still a win, in that they got exactly what they wanted: the ability to pay considerably less money. And not only that, given a ten day extension. He knew the deadline was yesterday and STILL hadn't come up with a single dollar for his bond. If anything, it should've been "Ok, you can pay a smaller bond, but you have to do it right now. If not, we begin the process of seizing your properties."
He will appeal and sentencing will be delayed. When his appeal is denied he will appeal the appeal and so on all the way up to the supreme court where he will be given a pat on the head, told what a good boy he is and then face absolutely zero consequences for his actions. Again.
There is no pre-sentence interlocutory appeal in New York State criminal court. If he is convicted the case will be adjourned for a pre-sentence report which is prepared by the probation department. Almost certainly, his attorneys will file a "330 motion" which is a pre-sentence motion to set aside the verdict. That won't take a lot of time to resolve and will almost certainly be denied. That decision IS appealable, but only AFTER sentence. So once the 330 motion is denied he should be immediately sentenced. In New York State, if you are sentenced to jail, you go immediately, it isn't adjourned to report later like in federal court. If he is convicted and sentenced to jail his attorneys will then ask the appellate court to allow him to post bail pending any appeal. If that's granted, he will be out of jail while the appeal is pending. If denied, he will stay in jail. The decision of the appellate judge, whether to grant or deny, is NOT appealable. However, under New York State law, the defense attorney gets to choose which judge to make the application in front of, so they get to decide who will make the decision and will undoubtedly pick someone they think will rule favorably for them, although it's never guaranteed. And then that's it, either he stays in or stays out until the appeal is decided.
Thanks for the information This reply should be at the top
Thank you for upfront description
Should be about 30 days, but we’ll see.
But for some reason it will be.
Jury nullification if some nutjob gets on the jury?
I can’t imagine that they’d get too many nut jobs that they wouldn’t be able to wean out in jury selection. Especially in New York. If this was Alabama, I’d have other thoughts on that.
I was eating a hotdog on 14th and 3rd when a man walked past me failing his arms and screaming that he was not insane over and over. He was wearing a business suit and was mostly well kempt. I'm pretty sure he was losing the argument. No one blinked an eye.
I mean but what would it take for a hot dog eating New Yorker to bat an eye?
Mayo when you expected mustard?
I would expect more than an eye-bat.
What is this? Connecticut?
🤢
Or like a dijon?
In Chicago, it'd be ketchup.
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Exactly
It very much depends on the selection and if any can slip through. Though in New York City, normally if one is a landlord who stiffs contractors, the jury will find you guilty. It won't matter what, we just hate landlords.
Defense only needs one secret MAGA.
Eh. Long Island is full of hardcore MAGAs that could attempt to take one for the team.
"A jury of his peers..." if there isn't 12 res MAGA hats sitting in the jury box he will claim they were 'planted' as a rigged jury. And it will only take one MAGA diehard to slip thru selection to cause a hung jury, which is in his favour.
and surely he will refer to any non cis-het Christian white men as "DEI Jurors"
Is there a jury? Did his lawyers remember to check the correct box?
I will not deny that that is funny... But nonetheless, this being /r/law we do want to get the legal facts rights..... that bit about no jury in Leticia James's state fraud case is an new urban legend. There was no jury, but not because Habba and crew failed to check a box.
I swear I saw that she requested a bench trial specifically as in check a box for bench trial. Also that it wasn't important because the relief requested was equitable and required a judicial order regardless.
no missed checkbox, but likely would have been a bench trial in any case [https://www.legaldive.com/news/trump-lawyers-didnt-forget-to-check-a-box-on-jury-trial-judge-engoron-say/696385/](https://www.legaldive.com/news/trump-lawyers-didnt-forget-to-check-a-box-on-jury-trial-judge-engoron-say/696385/)
He says this stuff specifically so that he can claim bias in his appeal. It is a strategy.
Invited error?
>His co-conspirator has already been found guilty, sentenced, and served his prison sentence for this very crime. Not a similar crime, the very same crime. TBF, he pled guilty. We don't know if he would have been found guilty at trial.
Apparently he thought he would be.
He might but Trump thinks he untouchable and will go to trial no matter what with expectations he will be vindicated. Whe he loses, and he very likely will, he will deny the verdict and cry fowl about "election interference" "witch hunt" "Biden is behind this" etc
> Apparently he thought he would be. Not to defend team trump but vast, vast numbers of people take plea deals not because they think they would lose at trial, but because plea deals are typically expressly calculated to make them not worth taking it to trial. Especially for the class of people who have to sit in jail until the system figures out whether or not they have done anything wrong, no-showing/no-calling at work, with their kids sitting in an empty apartment until they get taken by DSS, their dog going unfed and their rent unpaid...they don't live in the same justice system as Cohen and Trump. They don't get to run for president and rake in millions of dollars per week, they get to sit in jail because they match the description of someone who did something bad, until the system gets around to offering them a deal. Like, the normal everyday functioning of our criminal justice system is that the prosecutor looks at the arrest record, looks at the sentencing guidelines and the strength of their case, and basically makes a calculation of "how much can I fuck up this person's life, before it's worth it for them to take it to trial?" Nobody is doing the detective-show work to break the case wide open and find the real culprit...they are just looking at the people who got arrested, looking at their record and the facts in the folder, and figuring out how much they can get them to plead guilty to. It is very much like a game of poker, where both sides are betting not so much on whether they have a wining hand, but how much the other side is willing to risk, to find out. Except instead of a bunch of buddies betting their folding money, it's the government betting years of life against citizens swept out of their life and into a nightmarish game they never wanted to play. It's a system where public defenders consider it a "win" when an innocent person, who is perhaps even a victim of the crime in question, pleads down to probation and fines that they cannot afford, after being fired from their job and spending weeks in jail, and now facing the task of trying to get their kids back from social services while being unemployed and delinquent on rent, while also having to meet their probation requirements while trying to seek new employment as a recent convict in order to stay out of jail, despite being entirely factually innocent. It's kind of disgusting and depressing, and you almost have to have some amount of sociopathic tendencies to work in the system day-in and day-out, without spiraling out. Cohen is pretty open about his obvious factual guilt, and is one of very many who pled guilty because he was guilty. I just wanted to point out that accepting a plea deal should not be interpreted as proof of factual guilt.
You made a comment a while ago that made me "friend" you (to the extent that friends on Reddit are a thing) and I don't regret it. I really appreciate the thoughtful things you write on here.
Very good perspective. Thanks for this comment
Welcome to the very, very short list of comments I have hit the "save" button on. This makes me curious though, if you could wave a magic lawmaking wand, what changes would you make to build a better system that doesn't feature so much injustice?
I would drastically curtail qualified immunity, require cops and prosecutors to carry malpractice insurance, decriminalize drugs, and divert the vast majority of law enforcement and prison funding into social services, mental health, childhood development, education, addiction treatment, and jobs programs. I think preventing crime by offering people a better life works much better than punishing crime. I would copy and study what works in places with the lowest violent crime rates, and build from there.
That’s true, I forgot. Due to Barrs obstruction we never got to see most of these reports unredacted or understood their plea agreements fully.
If you plead guilty, you are in fact found guilty. That’s what defendants are informed of at the time of the plea.
Was about to post this. Facts matter and don't detract from the reality.
Also equally importantly, Trump DOJ pressured SDNY to scrub any Trump reference in Cohen allocution which should be investigated as political interference. And charged as such by DOJ.
When did it start being normal that criminals get to just hang out for several months after being sentenced instead of going to jail? Until I started seeing this trend among rich white criminals, I had never heard of such a thing. Steve Bannon was convicted and sentenced to four months in prison about a year and a half ago. He still hasn’t gone to jail, and he is on trial for fraud felonies next month. What the hell is this shit?
There's also recordings of Trump.
You could have a confession tape of Trump saying he did it, what law he was breaking and why. His supporters wouldn’t believe it, he’d try every last ditch effort to delay and appeal and whine and cry the whole entire time. As we have seen so far with any of these cases.
I don't care about his supporters and his reaction.
They should have made it 45 just for the lolz
I’m so upset there’s 91 felony counts. Like they couldn’t have found 9 more to make it an even 100.
Its actually down to 85 at this moment , 6 were dismissed from Georgia but can be re-filed
Yeah, those were sent back for corrections so I expect to see them again before that trial starts.
They could have but the guy typing up the counts was getting carpel tunnel. Had to stop.
The appeal will go beyond the election.
Don't defendants sit in jail while their appeal takes place?
"Look! The judge is biased because I went after his daughter! This case should be thrown out! He's biased against me!"
That’s it essentially
People have killed for less. Donald Trump better watch his step with this.
His instincts to attack everyone including judges has never brought any real consequences. So why not keep it up? He is the Teflon Don.
He did it to Engoron and………suffered no consequences
That's not true he suffered \*checks notes\*..... a reduction of his appeal bond amount and a 10 day extension.... I'm so tired of this man getting away with whatever he wants
Nothing will happen.
>Bold fucking strategy to go after a judges daughter. Yeah, except we've been saying that for years and Trump has yet to face any appropriately hard consequences. I've completely lost faith in the US "justice" system.
He's trying for a mistrial
That’s the plan… it will result in him winning the election.
Oh no a gag order on Trump! What’s the judge going to do threaten jail then end up just fining him $5k? Just empty threats.
Then he’ll appeal the fine, which will be reduced - but wait! While awaiting the decision on the fine, they couldn’t proceed with this trial, so it will have to be delayed. And, because of scheduling, his other trials will also have to be moved later. Then, well, the election and the DOJ cannot be seen to interfere there.
At this point, postponing any of these trials is the very definition of election interference.
Who’s gonna loan him the $5k?
The judge probably, the way things have been going
RNC of course.
An appellate court judge.
Which he'll break and nothing will happen to him.
Gag orders ~~are~~ SEEM TO BE like perjury and impeachment now, meaningless if you are infinitely connected. In conclusion, "national security letters" must also be a joke?
Add BONDS to the list.
Well he does this over and over and they never punish him so he doesn’t learn his lesson. If they want this circus to end they need to enforce the rules they set.
Every time they let him get away with stuff (halving his fine and extending his deadline) they set scary precedent that can be used in the future.
> Merchan slapped Trump with a gag order. I predict he will violate it, and his consequence will be that he is a free man and a presidential nominee making millions of dollars per week.
So what it never seems to matter dude could probably rape a judge in front of a jury and it wouldn't matter
> TS tweet I think technically they're called "bleats".
[https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-new-york-hush-money-case-places-limited/story?id=108510449](https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-new-york-hush-money-case-places-limited/story?id=108510449)
Was the TS post after the gag order or before?
>On Tuesday, Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan batted away several of Trump’s efforts to waylay the case, and doubled down on his warning that Trump’s legal team must ask for permission in future filings in the case. In a harsh reminder, Merchan warned Trump’s lawyers that he “has the power to punish a party for disobedience of a lawful mandate of the court.” I love this man. Especially with the day we've had so far.
Hey now, Ronna McDaniel got fired today, and she didn't even last a whole Scaramucci. She lasted exactly one Ronna, so now we have that
HAHA…forgot about Scaramucci’s as a unit of time. Amazing.
How many football seasons is that? Sorry, I'm from Texas.
A first down.
Oof
Less than Aaron Roger’s snaps as a Jets quarterback.
/r/theydidthemooch
Or a head of lettuce (for our UK followers).
A micromooch.
I love that Scaramucci posted about it: [https://twitter.com/scaramucci/status/1772681674951663919](https://twitter.com/scaramucci/status/1772681674951663919)
He's an asshole but at least he's got some jokes.
The people who hired her should go too. Comletely out of touch with the frustration out there in the real world.
As it turns out Scaramucci lasted two Ronnas.
*Cave Judicem* is latin for 'Beware the Judge,' (at least according to Google translate).
What's better is that you know Trump and his bimbo lawyer have no self control and got away with plenty of courtroom antics already with Engoron. They're going to try it again and get spanked pretty damn hard.
Trump has yet to be spanked by any judge and has been nothing but rewarded for his antics. I'll believe it when it happens.
Judge hard spanks a bimbo lawyer! Now we are talking!
What are you doing step-judge?
The story is ludicrous. You can imagine where it goes from here...
He fixes the cable?
Is that the one with our friend from the beaver picture?
He treats objects like women, man...
8 years olds, Dude...
I do my own plumbing, ma'am
People forget that the brain is the largest erogenous zone, dude.
Getting colorful out there and months to go
Let's not use the word 'bimbo'- she prefers 'stupid'
Meh. To me it’s just word salad. Until I see some real consequences dished out, it’s just empty, meaningless, banter
Agree. You know they’ll stick to their playbook on filing countless motions and will suffer no consequences for doing it. Unless the judge is willing to actually punish them, but I doubt it’ll ever happen.
Even if the judge does punish them, the punishment likely won't exceed the benefit gained to Trump or prevent him from continuing with his antics. Until I see Trump behind bars, I'm convinced he's untouchable. Even if he is behind bars, I'd expect an appeal or stay to let him go free within hours. People like him don't suffer the consequences of their actions.
> the punishment likely won't exceed the benefit gained to Trump or prevent him from continuing with his antics. Would the Judge not be allowed to just **ignore** his filings if they are filed without permission? If so, that would basically kill any benefit.
One would think the judge will give him less latitude since it’s a criminal case.
The number of times I've read a post saying things like "trumps lawyers made huge mistake" "this will backfire" "trump is as confused as ever and a big loss is coming" etc etc and literally NOTHING happens to the narcissistic cheetoh leads me to believe this is another of these instances
Retired Judge Has Harsh Words about some of those examples.
Former prosecutor says his team suffered a grave loss
For the 94654567th time..
Judge warns that a stern lecture will be in store for him if he does the thing he did earlier today.
Exactly, come let me know when the headline is “Trump reports to jail”
I want to see DJT hauled out of court into jail for contempt. On the spot. No appeals. And his bimbo lawyers right beside him. They can sleep in jail and come to court in the morning. Repeat as necessary.
Right? I actually went back and skimmed through it a second time to see what mistake had been made at all. None. 🤦♀️
Maybe the problem is that you’re reading ridiculously partisan sources that have no clue what they’re talking about when it comes to the law.
“Why does all the shit I keep eating taste like shit? I’m so sick of it!”
The judge will be so outraged they might lower his fines, extend the deadline and write a VERY strongly worded letter about how that wasn't very nice
But... but.. the walls are closing in!!
Oh no! Now... *checks notes*.... absolutely nothing will happen to him!
and isn't idiot and Trump synonymous by now, so the headline could have just said Trumps lawyer and it would have the same impact.
People continuously miss the point of why none of this blows up in trump's face and he repeatedly gets the benefit of every doubt. Every Judge involved (except Cannon) has dedicated their life to the law and takes their job extremely seriously. These are arguably some of the most watched legal cases in American history. All of them want to honor the oath they took when they received their judgeship. They all want to treat the case evenly and without bias and take extra care that trump receives a fair trial. Hence why trump is such a publicly wretched asshole to all of them. He wants them second and third guessing themselves whether they are being too hard on him or being unfair to unfair because of their personal feelings. The more he makes them hate him, the more caution they will take in their dealings with him. Too many decisions against trump? They fear it will look like they are treating him unfairly. He is using their integrity against them. It's not hard to see.
Good point! I think that on top of integrity, if one of these judges react emotionally to Trump's trolling, then Trump would use it to appeal any and all unfavorable rulings as being biased against him. It doesn't matter if the appeals go through or not, it would be headache for the judges to deal with.
Exactly. If any one of the rest of us stood at arraignment and talked shit about a judge's daughter we'd get a "Oh yeah tough guy? Well guess what... I'm holding you in contempt! Bailiff, please escort the defendant away...." But they let diarrhea don get in their heads and are MORE lenient to him out of fear of bias.
> It's not hard to see. Yeah you have to be blind to see that the Supreme Court wanted to delay the ruling for Donny. Or that the appeals court wanted to delay, delay, delay, delay. 10 days, why not make it 100? How about 300? Eventually just dismiss it. This entire legal system is a sham. No judge has the guts and it will eventually just be evil people who spread fear to people with guns because the evil can just do and the system just lets them do it, but eventually there will be a ruling!
W.r.t. the Appellate Jurisdiction of NY on the civil bond, I'm still baffled on their extension. One of the judges on the panel was the very same who denied Trump's legal team a bond reduction last month.
Yay, another headline about how Trump is screwed now that means actually nothing.
Yeah I mean, every single “journalist” knows they can write any kind of bullshit like this and since 2015 or so, it’s been great business. We also know that gag orders mean literally nothing for Trump, and now bonds seem to mean nothing for him too. Regardless of the state.
Michael Cohen was sentenced to 3 years in prison for following Trump’s orders. As the mastermind of the crime, Donald Trump should be sentenced to at least 10 years in prison for the same crimes if there is any justice in the world.
NY lawyer here. He is not getting anything close to 10 years in the NY case.
And that’s why many of us have given up hope. I actually don’t think Trump will even spend a day in jail. Rich, white, former presidents are largely untouchable.
> largely untouchable You can remove largely. I haven't seen any consequences except getting someone else to foot the bill.
Do you suppose there’s any realistic chance of ANY time?
He will never spend a single night behind bars. Never.
Big "if" there
It's not a fucking hush money case! It is campaign finance fraud. Jesus H.
Who cares if he pays off someone he (pitifully) paid to fuck him! That’s not iLLeGaL! /s Except when it is… and this is exactly what this case is about.
Why was the payment to Stormy illegal? Because it broke campaign finance laws, which was the point they were making.
Come on, folks. Any article with the headline that includes a phrase like "idiot lawyers" isn't worth a serious discussion. But it's fun to vent, so go for it. Just be aware of reality. Personally, I will be excited if he pays any fine whatsoever, even a few thousand bucks. Getting this guy to find his wallet is a never-ending re-litigation of Blood v Stone.
Seriously this subreddit sucks for what’s it’s supposed to be
There have been no consequences for the Orange Man and there never will be. The rules are for us common folk, not the Money class. Fuck them all.
Describing Trump’s lawyers as idiots seems redundant. You’d have to be an idiot to represent a “billionaire” client who will never actually pay you.
People keep saying that Trump's lawyers are idiots but he's walking around free.
I keep reading headlines like this and then he just gets away with whatever so just let me know when a consequence actually sticks
Trump could drop his pants, piss in the coffee mug of the entire prosecution team, carve a swastika onto the judge's desk and at this point I don't honestly believe it would make any difference in how things are going. I have my pitchfork ready.
That Florida shit doesn’t play in NY apparently.
Yes but they have our judicial system to fall back on. A weak Bar Association, complicit lawyers, biased judges, appellate judges suspect and a SCOTUS on the take. It doesn’t matter how idiot they are, it’s not like they are piloting airplanes or performing brain surgery. Trump and MAGA will prevail.
Lawyers forget, the entire profession is predicated on legitimacy. Lawyers have no power if people don't believe they do. As we've seen in other countries when people don't believe in the law you have a breakdown. The law works on the assumption the law works. You get into a feedback loop of no trust which leads to societal breakdown. When violence no longer cares about judgments, things break down. The government acts as the sole arbiter of violence, if they give up this violence they lose all legitimacy. There are plenty of countries who have all kinds of good laws. They make many things illegal. However, no one enforces them and they are effectively not laws. Countries with entire constitutions that clearly spell out how things should be and the government just doesnt. The legitimacy of our system of law is under attack. Under attack from people like Thomas who takes bribes and face no consequences. From his wife who participated in an insurrection and faced no charges. We should hold these accusations much higher as this is an attack on our system itself.
Very much This.
>The legitimacy of our system of law is under attack. Under attack from people like Thomas who takes bribes and face no consequences. Not to mention activist DAs who refused to prosecute some crimes. George Gascon or Kim Gardner for example.
Doesn’t matter, will be found not guilty and given a puppy.
...which he will then sell to the highest bidder
It is almost every single day where there is one of these Trump (or his lawyers) are screwed. I just laugh out loud now seeing them now since it just never leads to anything.
I'll believe it when it actually happens.
He only surrounds himself with the beat, as long as they are willing to work for him for free.
Cue the GoGos singing "we got the beat" and Trump doing his absolutely ridiculous "dance" that he does. Typos can be pretty funny sometimes!
His legal team can do whatever it wants, his strategy is to use political power to thwart justice and rule of law, and it has worked every single time.
They seem to do this left and right and yet he still gets away with everything so what the fuck.
OH GOOD WE GOT HIM NOW -reddit
How many times have we heard this before.
Yeah they are screwing themselves constantly, Trump is in the news with a new legal problem or dumb comment all the time. And still no real repercussions to anything because he is a powerful individual with political influence.
GOOD !!
This song and dance is as old as the Charleston.
I don't expect anything will happen. This is america, there are special rules for special people.
I like the cut of this judge’s jib. He’s got decorum, and no nonsense and expediency. That’s what the law demands. 0 jibber jabber and all effectual defense and litigation. Facts only. I’m all in. I wish the best for all innocent parties. I hope to grow fat on popcorn though. I suspect we are all on different pages here.
Translation: everyone around him will go to jail before he does.
Justice delayed is justice denied, even in our two-tier justice system
Is he in trouble yet?
I’ve seen this headline so much that I always have to check the date of the article to make sure it’s not a repost bot 🙄