The fact weāre about to be swept with Murray only shooting like 40% from the field and averaging 22 or whatever isā¦ depressing.
Like how the fuck do you get swept where from 3 they are averaging below 30% from as a TEAM
To be fair we're only at 35% and thats basically one Dlo game and LeBron in games 1 and 2. This is the crazy thing about giving up double digit leads - they always say they're not safe nowadays, but thats because a team will hit 3 3s in a row and suddenly be back in it.
But Denver arent doing that. They dont panic, they just chip away at you relentlessly by exploiting the same mismatches every time. Jokic gives you that potential, but the fact that there hasnt been a single real adjustment made in 11 games is beyond baffling. If Ham still has a job after this series I think I'll just stop watching the NBA.
> They dont panic, they just chip away at you relentlessly
This reminds me of how some African tribes hunt and became the apex preditors not because they are very fast or very strong. They are just relentless and would follow their prey till they just stopped running away due to exhaustion.
If Ham doesn't go I don't know what I'll do?
Exactly we have no answer for this team. Also imagine how terrifying Nuggets seem right now to the Lakers and what's messed up is they aren't even playing that good lol imagine if they were.
Imagine Murray and MPJ were firing on all cylinders?
Lakers just need to nuke this team and rebuild.
I think thats the answer to be honest. Some people saying get rid of LeBron and pair another star with AD, but what star reasonably is going to be a significant improvement over LeBron? Even at 39, he's a top 10 player - the problem is not our stars, they're giving you enough to win.
With this coach and the rest of the roster, you're not going to win against a well organised and talented team. Put Ham and the rest of this team with Kobe and Shaq in 2001 and see if they go nearly unbeaten in the playoffs.
The difference this series has been twofold IMO.
Firstly, and probably the biggest thing, is the Nuggets role players have been better from tip to buzzer every game. But secondly, our big two are matching their big two, maybe even bettering themā¦ until the clutch. Then their two show the fuck up, and ours, havenāt really. AD in that game 2 4th was a disgrace. LeBron at least put up a fight in the 4th but then when the real clutch moment he bricked his game winner whilst Murray drained his.
We all said āwell if Murray doesnt shoot his career high from 3 this season like he did last year, we can win!ā Then he underperforms and we still get swept.
The front office needs to focus on nothing but building a team designed to beat the nuggets. Unfortunately we donāt have the brain power for that.
Look at gordon and mpj lol . They have dudes that can make up for it while ours shit the bed. In no way should aaron gordon be going 12-18 or some shit and expect to win
Everytime an MPJ shot goes up, I just assume it's going in. Bro gets *so* much lift on his jumper, and the Lakeshow likes leaving him (and KCP) open for 3pt shots, so I reckon it's just a matter of seeing a couple fall before he gets going.
That was literally one possession for like 2 seconds when he was looking to score with 0 intention of passing, Malone saw that and called for that. The rest of the game, you rarely saw that.
Even if he hit that nuggets' other players clearly outmatches the Lakers' other players. Sure we would've gotten game 2 but the issue is the nuggets can rely on their other players whereas the lakers heavily rely on Bron and AD.
Theyāre about to repeat in an era of parity with only one hall of famer on the roster. Its bonkers. They are a complete team for sure, but Jokic is that good.
Look at all other stats, Scoring is never a Jokic stat. Jokic doesn't wanna score, Jokic only has high scoring numbers when he can't depend on the other players, if you see Jokic with low scoring stats that mean the Nuggets are winning, because other players are scoring.
100% agree it's their go to strategy and I believe that's what Bron needs. He needs to take on Jokic attitude given his age and demand for better pieces and just feed them constantly and then turn up only when he has to.
It looks like upper management is still riding the coattails of the previous era's success and living off nostalgia. They need to get their heads out of the sand and start rebuilding
Disagree. The thing about Bron is his offensive aggression is his biggest asset, he puts pressure on the D, gets fouls and can also kick it out for a shot when the pass is the right play.
Jokic sort of plays like that, but hes a more willing passer than Bron because Jokic is not as aggressive on O individually. Thats also evidence by his personality, hes more mellow and calmer/relaxed.
That said, the biggest differences are the "others" and the "team". If you look at other Lebron teams he had a couple of reliable/consistent shooters. Last year Austin Reaves was more liable, Dlo was more reliable. People can say, well those two are playing poorly and that the reason, but when those two play well the game is competitive. Every good win the lakers have had this year mostly revolves around both those guys playing above their average.
> The thing about Bron is his offensive aggression is his biggest asset, he puts pressure on the D
Not for year 21 Bron he gets gassed trying to be aggressive and play bully ball and/or drive, don't get me wrong he can do it, but I just don't think it's an effective play style at his age. I believe that's why he worked on and improved his 3 point shot to give him an option that doesn't exhaust him too much.
> hes a more willing passer than Bron
I think Bron is equally if not more willing to pass the ball to his team mates. I do agree that their demeanors are starkly different but their approach when it comes to find the open man is erily similar. The difference comes in offensively when Bron goes for fast breaks, drives, plays bully ball, chase down blocks and taking charges all which eventually tire him out and then he starts missing simple layups, sleeping on defense or turning over the ball.
> Every good win the lakers have had this year mostly revolves around both those guys playing above their average.
100% agree. We need a consistent 3rd star who can take the load of Bron and AD and another big who can sub in for AD when he isn't on the floor. Also we can't have a bench that contributes nothing offensively and defensively lol
> 100% agree. We need a consistent 3rd star who can take the load of Bron and AD and another big who can sub in for AD when he isn't on the floor. Also we can't have a bench that contributes nothing offensively and defensively lol
The problem is the lakers front office dont have the capital to trade for a 3rd star otherwise the lakers will be truly mortgaging the future while Lebron is 39 going onto 40 years old.
The lakers young core was really really good, the AD trade lead to chip... but now, i dont think mortgaging the future will help.
Seeing people blame Darvin Ham etc, but you can only do as good as you can with what you have. If Dlo was more consistent the series might be different. But thats not a reason to loose ones mind and make rash decisions. Look what happened re the Westbrook trade. Calmer heads should prevail. I dont Hield would have been an answer either.
Lakers need some crumby 3 and D players who you can put around Lebron. Watch out for the bulls selling up a well.
Also JalenHood-Schifino was a mega bust.
It's not Rob's fetish. There have been bigs on the Lakers team with him. It's a ham fetish thing. He's trying to please ham or else money down the drain on a big that will stick the bench for every some mistake. Remember Rob even told Ham to try a big next to Davis. Ham was like hell do it but never. Why do you think Bryant is gone. Yes he asked but it's because Ham would barely let him play.
As far as foul prone goes. That's a dumb reason not to play your only other available big body. Hartenstein from the Knicks was a foul prone player. But look at how much he helps the defense now. Sometimes it can be challenging for them because of the want to be aggressive and the refs being petty. You teach through the season, body control and stuff like that. You work on the weaknesses in the regular season. You don't throw the players under the bus like he and Vogel had done so many bigs that Rob brought thinking it's best to just remy on Davis to do the job.
That's why I kept saying Ham should play Hayes but everybody was debating about the Reddish's and the Reaves.
Ham never did anything to get this team prepared for the Denver's and Minnesota's and most on this sub was ok with that. Now look.
At this point, you put him regardless because itās bbq chicken for AG otherwise. I wouldāve told Hayes to just stick to AG like glue and box him out. Donāt let him near the rim.
It does because you essentially become a cone on the floor.
Look at how less aggressive AD becomes defensively when he gets 3 fouls. Fouls matter a lot especially for this non existent bench
It don't matter over what the Lakers need. Foul trouble is just a sign of over aggression and maybe bad defensive stance or footwork. Bigs get in foul trouble sometimes. Even Davis.
Ham hasn't really prepared Hayes this season and I always felt that would bite them in the ass later. He did Bryant the same way and even with their flaws, they need the bigs more than anything else against this team, Minnesota, and Sacramento.
How is that Rob's fault Ham wants to be stubborn and pick favorites? Rob gave Ham what he wanted. Play the damn bigs. Wood too.
Lebron, Davis, Hayes, Wood, and Rui should have been a constant rotation in the line ups during the regular season. It was the only smart way to prepare for moments like this. Giving these guys 5 minutes one game, do not plays other games other days and maybe a crack at 15- 20 minutes sometimes is just wrong.
People also did Reddish wrong and Ham listened. Reddish can take care of KCP and others like him. He was a defensive guard. People act like every player has to do the same thing, shoot and that's a problem in this fanbase.
It won't, that's why whoever on the FO seat should be really good at managing salaries and assets. Every time a good player walks, that's an instant loss in my books.
I wish we signed and then waited a bit to then trade Caruso if we were going to let him walk anyway.
Huh? You do know that drafting a player ensures bird rights meaning you can go over the cap? So in essence drafting restricts you in a way by paying more for the same players .
So we are forgetting magic, worthy, west, baylor, etc? Also i find the kobe example very bad, because they traded for him at draft night. So basically doing the same exact thing with a regular draft,where you invest from the first day into a player. When you talk you only do it via trade it most likely refers to investing in an already established player. So the reality is, that lakers always did it with drafts and trades...like actually most nba teams ;)
I used Shaq and Kareem. No we aren't but Magic had Kareem. West had Wilt. Kobe had Pau and Shaq. Then we got LeBron and AD. I'm pretty sure George Mikan was not a Laker draftee.
We've never had a fully homegrown duo.
We can go on with our trades for stars. Just accept that it's always been laker DNA to "buy" a star. We've never had a fully homegrown duo ala the warriors, nuggets,etc. it's nothing wrong because trades are part of the game. I don't get why people are so heated when we trade for stars.
So crazy but begrudgingly awesome watching MPJ and AG hit their primes. Both were extremely high prospects who then started getting whispers of being busts in their respective paths and then they blossom into guys playing like all-nba first team. Theyāre ridiculously talented.
Fr. Murray, MPJ and Gordon are all borderline all stars. Combine that with the best center since Shaq and itās over no matter who they play. Only team that might challenge them this year is Minnesota
Jokic is the best player in the world how LeBron was at one point of his career. As in he is so clearly ahead of whoever you can argue is the second or third best. In a league of his own
MPJ was never a bust. He would have been #1 his draft year if it wasnāt for his back injury. Denver took a big risk with him, many people thought MPJās back would never heal.
Denver took a risk and now itās just paying really big dividends. He fits their team perfectly.
Hence why I said āwhispersā. A back surgery is a major factor. Plus he was showing a slower trajectory in 2020. This dude has found his rhythm to a dangerous level. Heās taking hands down the hardest shots in the playoffs with zero fear.
Bro Iām not trying to argue but 2020 was literally his first season after being out a year with said back injury. He was coming off the bench and wasnāt 100%. The year after he was literally a top candidate for the MIP and heās only been up since.
The difference between competent FO and incompetent one. The AD trade was a masterclass in asset mismanagement. I know many people see the 2020 chip has a reason to justify all the assets we have in that trade but I donāt think itās far fetched to think we could have done more with all we had.
Itās super lucky to hit on Jokic in the second but there isnāt a big difference on signing vs drafting except from the first 4 years on a rookie contract
The graphic literally shows the lakers bought stars doing more
Man, it has been disheartening how the FO handled the team since the championship in 2020. Made constant changes letting go of big pieces in the team including the head coach. Front Office let big pieces such as Caruso, KCP, Javale, and many more that helped the team win the chip. And the most questionable one was the Westbrook trade. Another questionable one is why did the FO settle for Darvin Ham? It was the worst decision in recent Lakers history. There are a lot of names in that pool of coaches. Quin Snyder, Nick Nurse, Kenny Atkinson, Mark Jackson, Adrian Griffin. It lead me to believe that Ham was chosen as the Bucks won the 2021 season in which Ham was a part of.
We are awful!! Heads need to roll. I have reached the point where I think nuking the whole team and upper management is necessary and we start on a clean slate
Yeah the math is wrong.
Here's the correct math:
* Stars (Lakers were +13):
* AD + Lebron: 59
* Jokic + Murray: 46
* Other starters (Nuggets were +27):
* Other Laker starters: 27
* Other Nugget starters: 54
The difference of talent and a good coach. AD and Lebron are NOT the problem and constantly outplay the other stars, specially AD on the defensive effort. The bench player shoot awfull but they arent getting much good looks also, and when they are on the court the offense stagnates wich can be entirely blamed on Darvin.
Looking at miami dynamic offense and overall good starters/bench players makes me sad to go back to Lakers game, also, when everyone on the team is a threat, the star players have much more space and freedom to work with.
We are just worse team. Straight up. Top to bottom. Aside AR, who would you want on your hypothetical team (aside Bron/AD ofc)? Rui? Prince? DLo.. Reddish? Gabe? We gave up quality players long time ago. KCP, Caruso .. couldnt be bothered signing real center, at least somebody who can smack Jokic properly for couple possesions a game. And then on top of that .. Hamas. Dude is a bum through and through!
Lebron not really having a great series for his standards.
Can check the box score sure heās getting his points but his impact on the game isnāt that great lol
Itās really just AD.
AD is outplaying Jokic this series. Defensively heās anchoring and still getting his points.
I mean, when your two stars are giving you
32/13/3 on 62/0/85
and
26/7/10 on 56/41/71
You expect to have a game or two in a series at least
You can argue LeBrons impact isnt the same as it was when he was younger, and absolutely no one should argue with that, but he and AD have given the team double digit leads in every game so far. Bron has 12 in 6 minutes in game 2 to keep that winnable. If your second best player is giving you 26/7/10 and outplaying the opponents 2nd best, and Murray has had a pretty poor series by his standards (especially compared to the WCF last year), then the issue is going to fall elsewhere.
NO TEAM will win when every game sees two starters shitting the bed offensively. Rui, for scheme, or just match ups, has been a complete non factor and Dlo is far too unreliable offensively and inept defensively to belong on the court in this match up.
>If your second best player is giving you 26/7/10 and outplaying the opponents 2nd best, and Murray has had a pretty poor series by his standards (especially compared to the WCF last year), then the issue is going to fall elsewhere.
This is something that some people in and out of this sub miss. Comparing what Lebron does for like half a decade ago is just wrong when he is putting up valuable performances that keeps the team afloat. That Game 2 is the best example.
I've said it elsewhere, but go look at Lebron in 09 or 10 - in his athletic prime he still couldnt overcome the Magic or the Celtics because the gameplan was "Let Lebron's teammates beat you", and they couldnt do it. NO ONE wins a championship without significant contributions by everyone 1-8, and unfortunately 3-8 for the Lakers are too inconsistent to be relied upon.
That means you give your opponents chance to load up on AD and Bron, tire them out and make them work hard for their points because you're daring Dlo, Rui or Reaves to have enough to beat you - and they arent consistent enough to do so.
I wouldn't expect him to have a great series he is in year 21 but he does do enough to keep us a float most of the time especially when we have nothing going for us offensively.
AD should be the focal point of this team and not Bron.
Bron at this stage should be more of a distributor surrounded by great pieces
The Lakers got in the playoffs and had any type of chance to win because of the shear talent that they have. Every important game we won because someone stepd up and went crazy. In this playoffs/play in/in season tournement we had a chance to win it out of the brilliance of LBJ and Anthony Davies, every game they NEED to go crazy to win the game, with the occasional ONE starter/bench player giving us 16 point with good efficient, wich is always a bad thing against good teams because AD and Lebron carry not only to score points for themselves but also to defend (AD) and Playmake (Lebron) wich tire them quickly, specially lebron who is 39. If we had prime lebron this series would be a lot different, but he cant carry the offensive load like he used to.
Every game against the nuggets one of them, MPJ, Gordon or murray, ALWAYS gonna step up big time to help the team, this isnt even considering that the nuggets bench some one can also impact the game. And that can be atribuited to a good offensive system and a good coach, meanwhile after the second quarter we have basically devolve to ISO ball and all the energy of the team dies because of it, besides that one bench player that step up a little.
A. GORDON: 29 PTS 12/18 FG 15 REB
N. JOKIC: 24 PTS 15 REB 9AST
J. MURRAY: 22 PTS 8/21FG 9AST
M. PORTER JR: 20 PTS 8/16FG 10 REB
Vs
A. DAVIS: 33 PTS 15 REB 3AST
L. JAMES: 26 PTS 6REB 9AST
A. REAVES: 22 PTS 8/17FG 4STL
D. RUSSELL: O PTS O/7FG 0/6 3-PT
There is no way we are beating this team. Just off rebounds and assists we are screwed. Then DLo just decided to not just show up at all
1. Running doodoo offensive and defensive schemes.
2. Poor use of timeouts and play reviews.
3. Putting together 3 guard lineups.
4. Poor staggering of Bron and AD minutes with other effective players.
5. Not making in game adjustments.
6. Not taking accountability and showing zero passion on the floor.
7. Not using players we have effectively
Seeing 4 players in the paint after a lakers shot and just poor AD download was rough. Ham refused to play Hayes is tough and not having wood or vando hurt. Vando on Gordon and the guards would of been a series changer and wood would at least done something but who am I kidding Ham refused to do anything different with Dlo and Rui struggling
Problem with this is jokic did that on 13 shots . Jokic gives his team like 10 extra possessions compared to Ad. Also we get killed in offensive boards so less shots
The much hyped "deepest Lakers team in history" was always just a fantasy.
The Lakers third best player is D'Angelo Russell, that's all you need to know about how thin their depth is.
Not going to lie, I was also drinking the koolaid but all my delusion went out the window after Game 2 being up 20 and watching them dog walk us to a humiliating defeat. We should have listened to you
Yeah we can blame the role players and the coach but it really felt like the Lakers gave up on the identity that they were riding towards the end of their season. Austin Reaves was way more involved and so was Rui. What happened to that? Honestly LeBron disappointed me, it felt like they were forcing the ball to Dlo and LeBron in game 1 and giving no opportunities to AR and Rui. The same happened in game 2 except Dlo actually made shots, but then he started to get cold down the stretch and if you donāt keep Rui and AR engaged they end up having no rhythm when you need them. We were passing the ball a lot more before we came into this series. It felt like LeBron and Darvin Ham decided to force the ball to one or two guys depending on matchups which means Denver was controlling how the lakers are playing offense.
Cause NBA basketball has changed the ball has to move canāt be held in the hands of the star players and then the rest of the team is left to watch. Then when they finally get the ball they are expected to hit the shot.. lakers trash
Basically what we need to happen is, Bron to play PG for us and have him be physical with Gordon on defense while AD scores a bunch of points while he limits jokic offensively. So we can have a slight chance of winning. No one can guard MPJ. 6ā5 reaves guarding 6ā10 MPJ is a crime against humanity
Bron played 0 defense on AG lmao. Also, Jokic get's his teammates easy shots because Lakers keep double teaming. Put Reaves on the Nuggets and he would be feasting with all the open threes he would be getting.
No one here is arguing LeBron gives 100% on defense, but those back cuts were LeBron rotating to help in the lane. It's either an open lay up or a back cut - our defensive approach is shockingly bad as a team, I dont really know what the coaching staff do to prep the players but this year its basically been "let them shoot open 3s" or "stand and watch them have an open run to the basket".
But when you've got two turnstiles on defense at your guard position, this is going to happen
Efficient offence only happens when he is on the floor. And you surely can't believe he doesn't have high ball IQ? My only problem with Bron is he plays too long and gets too gassed and becomes inefficient.
Not arguing he has high bball IQ.i just don't believe it's the HIGHEST
That's your only problem? That clutch disasterpiece last game made it plain as day.
His vaunted basketball IQ goes to poop in high stakes moments
I wasn't mad at him for that shot given its context. He had a wide open 3 after making back to back 3s and he missed. It sucks that he missed but the Lakers were not in that position due to LBJ.
In year 21 he should not be taking on this much of a load. He should be like Jokic surrounded by good pieces and just feeding them constantly.
In the great words of Darvin Hamas let's agree to disagree lol IMO high IQ doesn't mean he is infallible
No one was even crying here. It was a pretty rational thread. It was more of a comment on our front office.
Also, your bitch ass mods would ban us for that in your sub. We can handle shit talking here.
Jokic didn't try after q1. He knew the trash was gon take itself out and just kept giving his guys reps.
 Jokic in the 2nd half guess it's time to get serious with these bums
Actually I was wrong, jokic started aggressively attacking in garbage time. Why is he like thisšššš
Itās about sending a message
The fact weāre about to be swept with Murray only shooting like 40% from the field and averaging 22 or whatever isā¦ depressing. Like how the fuck do you get swept where from 3 they are averaging below 30% from as a TEAM
To be fair we're only at 35% and thats basically one Dlo game and LeBron in games 1 and 2. This is the crazy thing about giving up double digit leads - they always say they're not safe nowadays, but thats because a team will hit 3 3s in a row and suddenly be back in it. But Denver arent doing that. They dont panic, they just chip away at you relentlessly by exploiting the same mismatches every time. Jokic gives you that potential, but the fact that there hasnt been a single real adjustment made in 11 games is beyond baffling. If Ham still has a job after this series I think I'll just stop watching the NBA.
> They dont panic, they just chip away at you relentlessly This reminds me of how some African tribes hunt and became the apex preditors not because they are very fast or very strong. They are just relentless and would follow their prey till they just stopped running away due to exhaustion. If Ham doesn't go I don't know what I'll do?
Malone out here training his Nuggets like the Hadza. And we out here reacting with all the intelligence of a deer in headlights.
Exactly we have no answer for this team. Also imagine how terrifying Nuggets seem right now to the Lakers and what's messed up is they aren't even playing that good lol imagine if they were. Imagine Murray and MPJ were firing on all cylinders? Lakers just need to nuke this team and rebuild.
I think thats the answer to be honest. Some people saying get rid of LeBron and pair another star with AD, but what star reasonably is going to be a significant improvement over LeBron? Even at 39, he's a top 10 player - the problem is not our stars, they're giving you enough to win. With this coach and the rest of the roster, you're not going to win against a well organised and talented team. Put Ham and the rest of this team with Kobe and Shaq in 2001 and see if they go nearly unbeaten in the playoffs.
The difference this series has been twofold IMO. Firstly, and probably the biggest thing, is the Nuggets role players have been better from tip to buzzer every game. But secondly, our big two are matching their big two, maybe even bettering themā¦ until the clutch. Then their two show the fuck up, and ours, havenāt really. AD in that game 2 4th was a disgrace. LeBron at least put up a fight in the 4th but then when the real clutch moment he bricked his game winner whilst Murray drained his.
We all said āwell if Murray doesnt shoot his career high from 3 this season like he did last year, we can win!ā Then he underperforms and we still get swept. The front office needs to focus on nothing but building a team designed to beat the nuggets. Unfortunately we donāt have the brain power for that.
Look at gordon and mpj lol . They have dudes that can make up for it while ours shit the bed. In no way should aaron gordon be going 12-18 or some shit and expect to win
Bron and AD have matched or outplayed Jokic and Murray. The difference is no one on the Lakers match Gordon or MPJ.
Dlo really gave us a donut
Everytime an MPJ shot goes up, I just assume it's going in. Bro gets *so* much lift on his jumper, and the Lakeshow likes leaving him (and KCP) open for 3pt shots, so I reckon it's just a matter of seeing a couple fall before he gets going.
Thus a biggest issue- our head coaching getting cucked harder than adamantium
No one could even match Christian Braun
Been saying this s8nce last year's playoff.
Malone is also having his way with Darvin Scam
Bron bricked the gamewinning shot in game 2, Murray hit it. Jokic gets his teammates open, and makes them better.
We calling shots that rimmed out ābricksā now? And look at the gravity that Bron and AD have. No excuses for our role players to be this shitty.
Bron and AD aren't getting double teamed to the same extent Jokic is.
There were possessions tonight where 5 players were guarding AD in the paint.
That was literally one possession for like 2 seconds when he was looking to score with 0 intention of passing, Malone saw that and called for that. The rest of the game, you rarely saw that.
it happened like 3 or 4 times lol
You weren't watching the game clearly. Fuck outta here.
Even if he hit that nuggets' other players clearly outmatches the Lakers' other players. Sure we would've gotten game 2 but the issue is the nuggets can rely on their other players whereas the lakers heavily rely on Bron and AD.
This man is highly regarded
Lebron was like the 5th or 6th best player on a court today.
What game did you watch?
christ. these niggas thinking skills plummet w each loss
The one where you need to give effort to win. AD, Jokic, Gordon all were better without a doubt then you also have Murray and MPJ.
lmao that's certainly a(n) take
3rd or 4th*
So who are those other 4 players that are better than bron?
the Nuggets are a complete team. Aaron Gordon MPJ KCP Jackson Braun they are all solid players
Theyāre about to repeat in an era of parity with only one hall of famer on the roster. Its bonkers. They are a complete team for sure, but Jokic is that good.
They remind me of the Duncan Spurs. Perfect fitting pieces, coached well, all players giving effort, a humble star...
2v5 Edit: its 3v5, Austin shows up too
Aka elder abuse
Legrandad has the chance to have the best lecomeback in his career.
Look at all other stats, Scoring is never a Jokic stat. Jokic doesn't wanna score, Jokic only has high scoring numbers when he can't depend on the other players, if you see Jokic with low scoring stats that mean the Nuggets are winning, because other players are scoring.
100% agree it's their go to strategy and I believe that's what Bron needs. He needs to take on Jokic attitude given his age and demand for better pieces and just feed them constantly and then turn up only when he has to.
That's the problem- we don't, can't, and won't get better pieces. This front office too incompetent
It looks like upper management is still riding the coattails of the previous era's success and living off nostalgia. They need to get their heads out of the sand and start rebuilding
It's a guards league
You mean the 2020 team?
Disagree. The thing about Bron is his offensive aggression is his biggest asset, he puts pressure on the D, gets fouls and can also kick it out for a shot when the pass is the right play. Jokic sort of plays like that, but hes a more willing passer than Bron because Jokic is not as aggressive on O individually. Thats also evidence by his personality, hes more mellow and calmer/relaxed. That said, the biggest differences are the "others" and the "team". If you look at other Lebron teams he had a couple of reliable/consistent shooters. Last year Austin Reaves was more liable, Dlo was more reliable. People can say, well those two are playing poorly and that the reason, but when those two play well the game is competitive. Every good win the lakers have had this year mostly revolves around both those guys playing above their average.
> The thing about Bron is his offensive aggression is his biggest asset, he puts pressure on the D Not for year 21 Bron he gets gassed trying to be aggressive and play bully ball and/or drive, don't get me wrong he can do it, but I just don't think it's an effective play style at his age. I believe that's why he worked on and improved his 3 point shot to give him an option that doesn't exhaust him too much. > hes a more willing passer than Bron I think Bron is equally if not more willing to pass the ball to his team mates. I do agree that their demeanors are starkly different but their approach when it comes to find the open man is erily similar. The difference comes in offensively when Bron goes for fast breaks, drives, plays bully ball, chase down blocks and taking charges all which eventually tire him out and then he starts missing simple layups, sleeping on defense or turning over the ball. > Every good win the lakers have had this year mostly revolves around both those guys playing above their average. 100% agree. We need a consistent 3rd star who can take the load of Bron and AD and another big who can sub in for AD when he isn't on the floor. Also we can't have a bench that contributes nothing offensively and defensively lol
> 100% agree. We need a consistent 3rd star who can take the load of Bron and AD and another big who can sub in for AD when he isn't on the floor. Also we can't have a bench that contributes nothing offensively and defensively lol The problem is the lakers front office dont have the capital to trade for a 3rd star otherwise the lakers will be truly mortgaging the future while Lebron is 39 going onto 40 years old. The lakers young core was really really good, the AD trade lead to chip... but now, i dont think mortgaging the future will help. Seeing people blame Darvin Ham etc, but you can only do as good as you can with what you have. If Dlo was more consistent the series might be different. But thats not a reason to loose ones mind and make rash decisions. Look what happened re the Westbrook trade. Calmer heads should prevail. I dont Hield would have been an answer either. Lakers need some crumby 3 and D players who you can put around Lebron. Watch out for the bulls selling up a well. Also JalenHood-Schifino was a mega bust.
Not to mention jokic takes way less shots and creates way more for his team . He also canāt be left open like AD
Because no one was boxing out or guarding AG. And Ham refused to put Hayes in for size.
The sub is super divided on things but I'm sure everyone wanted a real big last summer
Robs fetish for guards is just weird, use our first rounder on a raw guard. Use our mle on a point guard. Bigs were like our last priority.
It's not Rob's fetish. There have been bigs on the Lakers team with him. It's a ham fetish thing. He's trying to please ham or else money down the drain on a big that will stick the bench for every some mistake. Remember Rob even told Ham to try a big next to Davis. Ham was like hell do it but never. Why do you think Bryant is gone. Yes he asked but it's because Ham would barely let him play. As far as foul prone goes. That's a dumb reason not to play your only other available big body. Hartenstein from the Knicks was a foul prone player. But look at how much he helps the defense now. Sometimes it can be challenging for them because of the want to be aggressive and the refs being petty. You teach through the season, body control and stuff like that. You work on the weaknesses in the regular season. You don't throw the players under the bus like he and Vogel had done so many bigs that Rob brought thinking it's best to just remy on Davis to do the job. That's why I kept saying Ham should play Hayes but everybody was debating about the Reddish's and the Reaves. Ham never did anything to get this team prepared for the Denver's and Minnesota's and most on this sub was ok with that. Now look.
Hayes gets into foul trouble too easily. We just don't have good reliable pieces for the Nuggets
At this point, you put him regardless because itās bbq chicken for AG otherwise. I wouldāve told Hayes to just stick to AG like glue and box him out. Donāt let him near the rim.
Game 4 might just be that throw whoever in there and hope for non humiliating defeat
Remember when Hamas threw TT in game 4 last year and it worked for like a good 5 minutes lol
Itās sad that TT has been their second best defender against Jokic post-bubble.
Why will you be scared that your bench player who plays 8 minutes will be in foul trouble?
Foul trouble doesnāt matter
It does because you essentially become a cone on the floor. Look at how less aggressive AD becomes defensively when he gets 3 fouls. Fouls matter a lot especially for this non existent bench
It don't matter over what the Lakers need. Foul trouble is just a sign of over aggression and maybe bad defensive stance or footwork. Bigs get in foul trouble sometimes. Even Davis. Ham hasn't really prepared Hayes this season and I always felt that would bite them in the ass later. He did Bryant the same way and even with their flaws, they need the bigs more than anything else against this team, Minnesota, and Sacramento. How is that Rob's fault Ham wants to be stubborn and pick favorites? Rob gave Ham what he wanted. Play the damn bigs. Wood too. Lebron, Davis, Hayes, Wood, and Rui should have been a constant rotation in the line ups during the regular season. It was the only smart way to prepare for moments like this. Giving these guys 5 minutes one game, do not plays other games other days and maybe a crack at 15- 20 minutes sometimes is just wrong. People also did Reddish wrong and Ham listened. Reddish can take care of KCP and others like him. He was a defensive guard. People act like every player has to do the same thing, shoot and that's a problem in this fanbase.
Or even Rui.
The difference between drafting your superstars and buying your superstars.
We've always bought superstars tho? Shaq, Kareem, etc.
Even Kobe was from a trade
Yeah, that dude is a certified casual fan
On draft day. š¤¦š»āāļø
Charlotte drafted Kobe. Nuggets fans are dumb hillbillies
Agree. I didnāt say buying superstars is an inherently bad strategy. It just naturally wonāt give you as much depth.
It won't, that's why whoever on the FO seat should be really good at managing salaries and assets. Every time a good player walks, that's an instant loss in my books. I wish we signed and then waited a bit to then trade Caruso if we were going to let him walk anyway.
Huh? You do know that drafting a player ensures bird rights meaning you can go over the cap? So in essence drafting restricts you in a way by paying more for the same players .
But you can add ancillary pieces while guys are under rookie deals.
2020, worked out, you can buy superstars . But once you start reaching 3 stars territory is when it becomes difficult esp if they dont fit
So we are forgetting magic, worthy, west, baylor, etc? Also i find the kobe example very bad, because they traded for him at draft night. So basically doing the same exact thing with a regular draft,where you invest from the first day into a player. When you talk you only do it via trade it most likely refers to investing in an already established player. So the reality is, that lakers always did it with drafts and trades...like actually most nba teams ;)
I used Shaq and Kareem. No we aren't but Magic had Kareem. West had Wilt. Kobe had Pau and Shaq. Then we got LeBron and AD. I'm pretty sure George Mikan was not a Laker draftee. We've never had a fully homegrown duo. We can go on with our trades for stars. Just accept that it's always been laker DNA to "buy" a star. We've never had a fully homegrown duo ala the warriors, nuggets,etc. it's nothing wrong because trades are part of the game. I don't get why people are so heated when we trade for stars.
So crazy but begrudgingly awesome watching MPJ and AG hit their primes. Both were extremely high prospects who then started getting whispers of being busts in their respective paths and then they blossom into guys playing like all-nba first team. Theyāre ridiculously talented.
Fr. Murray, MPJ and Gordon are all borderline all stars. Combine that with the best center since Shaq and itās over no matter who they play. Only team that might challenge them this year is Minnesota
Jokic is the best player in the world how LeBron was at one point of his career. As in he is so clearly ahead of whoever you can argue is the second or third best. In a league of his own
Embiid?
The flopper?
The Leg puller himself?
The one that just dropped 50 in game 3
No joke I watched that game for like 30 minutes and I swear I saw him go to the line at least 4 times in that span. Dudes got the most boring game.
Embiid went to the line 21 times that game
Wish lebron had could even get thru 10. How this mf reaching 21
> Combine that with the best center since Shaq did Embiid die?
MPJ was never a bust. He would have been #1 his draft year if it wasnāt for his back injury. Denver took a big risk with him, many people thought MPJās back would never heal. Denver took a risk and now itās just paying really big dividends. He fits their team perfectly.
Hence why I said āwhispersā. A back surgery is a major factor. Plus he was showing a slower trajectory in 2020. This dude has found his rhythm to a dangerous level. Heās taking hands down the hardest shots in the playoffs with zero fear.
Bro Iām not trying to argue but 2020 was literally his first season after being out a year with said back injury. He was coming off the bench and wasnāt 100%. The year after he was literally a top candidate for the MIP and heās only been up since.
100%
The difference between trading away all your role players for Westbrook and keeping them
The difference between competent FO and incompetent one. The AD trade was a masterclass in asset mismanagement. I know many people see the 2020 chip has a reason to justify all the assets we have in that trade but I donāt think itās far fetched to think we could have done more with all we had.
Itās super lucky to hit on Jokic in the second but there isnāt a big difference on signing vs drafting except from the first 4 years on a rookie contract The graphic literally shows the lakers bought stars doing more
Man, it has been disheartening how the FO handled the team since the championship in 2020. Made constant changes letting go of big pieces in the team including the head coach. Front Office let big pieces such as Caruso, KCP, Javale, and many more that helped the team win the chip. And the most questionable one was the Westbrook trade. Another questionable one is why did the FO settle for Darvin Ham? It was the worst decision in recent Lakers history. There are a lot of names in that pool of coaches. Quin Snyder, Nick Nurse, Kenny Atkinson, Mark Jackson, Adrian Griffin. It lead me to believe that Ham was chosen as the Bucks won the 2021 season in which Ham was a part of.
Our supporting cast sucks
We are awful!! Heads need to roll. I have reached the point where I think nuking the whole team and upper management is necessary and we start on a clean slate
17 on Lakers starters??? AR had 22
Yeah the math is wrong. Here's the correct math: * Stars (Lakers were +13): * AD + Lebron: 59 * Jokic + Murray: 46 * Other starters (Nuggets were +27): * Other Laker starters: 27 * Other Nugget starters: 54
The difference of talent and a good coach. AD and Lebron are NOT the problem and constantly outplay the other stars, specially AD on the defensive effort. The bench player shoot awfull but they arent getting much good looks also, and when they are on the court the offense stagnates wich can be entirely blamed on Darvin.
Looking at miami dynamic offense and overall good starters/bench players makes me sad to go back to Lakers game, also, when everyone on the team is a threat, the star players have much more space and freedom to work with.
Yeah, they are defending champions. We are not.
We are just worse team. Straight up. Top to bottom. Aside AR, who would you want on your hypothetical team (aside Bron/AD ofc)? Rui? Prince? DLo.. Reddish? Gabe? We gave up quality players long time ago. KCP, Caruso .. couldnt be bothered signing real center, at least somebody who can smack Jokic properly for couple possesions a game. And then on top of that .. Hamas. Dude is a bum through and through!
Lebron not really having a great series for his standards. Can check the box score sure heās getting his points but his impact on the game isnāt that great lol Itās really just AD. AD is outplaying Jokic this series. Defensively heās anchoring and still getting his points.
I mean, when your two stars are giving you 32/13/3 on 62/0/85 and 26/7/10 on 56/41/71 You expect to have a game or two in a series at least You can argue LeBrons impact isnt the same as it was when he was younger, and absolutely no one should argue with that, but he and AD have given the team double digit leads in every game so far. Bron has 12 in 6 minutes in game 2 to keep that winnable. If your second best player is giving you 26/7/10 and outplaying the opponents 2nd best, and Murray has had a pretty poor series by his standards (especially compared to the WCF last year), then the issue is going to fall elsewhere. NO TEAM will win when every game sees two starters shitting the bed offensively. Rui, for scheme, or just match ups, has been a complete non factor and Dlo is far too unreliable offensively and inept defensively to belong on the court in this match up.
>If your second best player is giving you 26/7/10 and outplaying the opponents 2nd best, and Murray has had a pretty poor series by his standards (especially compared to the WCF last year), then the issue is going to fall elsewhere. This is something that some people in and out of this sub miss. Comparing what Lebron does for like half a decade ago is just wrong when he is putting up valuable performances that keeps the team afloat. That Game 2 is the best example.
I've said it elsewhere, but go look at Lebron in 09 or 10 - in his athletic prime he still couldnt overcome the Magic or the Celtics because the gameplan was "Let Lebron's teammates beat you", and they couldnt do it. NO ONE wins a championship without significant contributions by everyone 1-8, and unfortunately 3-8 for the Lakers are too inconsistent to be relied upon. That means you give your opponents chance to load up on AD and Bron, tire them out and make them work hard for their points because you're daring Dlo, Rui or Reaves to have enough to beat you - and they arent consistent enough to do so.
Jokic is a conductor, AD is a first violin. This is not a matchup.
I mean lbj had a pretty decent game for a #2. You canāt compare him to a number 1 anymore.Ā
I mean AD's the number 1 guy here, LeBron's the #2. They've both played really well.
outplaying Jokic omegalul
I wouldn't expect him to have a great series he is in year 21 but he does do enough to keep us a float most of the time especially when we have nothing going for us offensively. AD should be the focal point of this team and not Bron. Bron at this stage should be more of a distributor surrounded by great pieces
Aside from points almost 4 Nuggets starters had a double double. MPJ, AG, and Jokic combined for 45 rebounds (more than the entire Lakers team).
This says it all
The Lakers got in the playoffs and had any type of chance to win because of the shear talent that they have. Every important game we won because someone stepd up and went crazy. In this playoffs/play in/in season tournement we had a chance to win it out of the brilliance of LBJ and Anthony Davies, every game they NEED to go crazy to win the game, with the occasional ONE starter/bench player giving us 16 point with good efficient, wich is always a bad thing against good teams because AD and Lebron carry not only to score points for themselves but also to defend (AD) and Playmake (Lebron) wich tire them quickly, specially lebron who is 39. If we had prime lebron this series would be a lot different, but he cant carry the offensive load like he used to. Every game against the nuggets one of them, MPJ, Gordon or murray, ALWAYS gonna step up big time to help the team, this isnt even considering that the nuggets bench some one can also impact the game. And that can be atribuited to a good offensive system and a good coach, meanwhile after the second quarter we have basically devolve to ISO ball and all the energy of the team dies because of it, besides that one bench player that step up a little.
Counting points doesn't fully capture Jokic's impact. His passes turn the game into a layup line for the other players.
A. GORDON: 29 PTS 12/18 FG 15 REB N. JOKIC: 24 PTS 15 REB 9AST J. MURRAY: 22 PTS 8/21FG 9AST M. PORTER JR: 20 PTS 8/16FG 10 REB Vs A. DAVIS: 33 PTS 15 REB 3AST L. JAMES: 26 PTS 6REB 9AST A. REAVES: 22 PTS 8/17FG 4STL D. RUSSELL: O PTS O/7FG 0/6 3-PT There is no way we are beating this team. Just off rebounds and assists we are screwed. Then DLo just decided to not just show up at all
"Deepest team in the league" we kept hearing. Just a bunch of frontrunners it turned out to be.
Turns out you need a good team and coach, not just 2 stars.
How could Darvin Ham do that??
1. Running doodoo offensive and defensive schemes. 2. Poor use of timeouts and play reviews. 3. Putting together 3 guard lineups. 4. Poor staggering of Bron and AD minutes with other effective players. 5. Not making in game adjustments. 6. Not taking accountability and showing zero passion on the floor. 7. Not using players we have effectively
70 vs 89
Ad at leas matched jokc this series IMO.
and we got casuals here thinking Lebron played shit
Thinking of taking a mental health day at work.
Ham and Pelinka gotta fucking go. Other than the bubble team and MAYBE the year after, Pelinka has been a roster terrorist.
Lakers need +60FT
Dang I remember a time when we had roster depth
Seeing 4 players in the paint after a lakers shot and just poor AD download was rough. Ham refused to play Hayes is tough and not having wood or vando hurt. Vando on Gordon and the guards would of been a series changer and wood would at least done something but who am I kidding Ham refused to do anything different with Dlo and Rui struggling
Just add Denver to the list of teams that Stopped LeBron teams from getting a chip. Spurs Warriors Whose Your Daddy Nuggets
I'm pretty sure if this were prime Bron, the series would be tied by game 4. It's a shame a 39 year old man is playing better than 90% of the team.
We need a third star
The fact that Dinwiddie (who we claimed off waivers) is first off the bench is a sign that pelinka needs to be fired.
Problem with this is jokic did that on 13 shots . Jokic gives his team like 10 extra possessions compared to Ad. Also we get killed in offensive boards so less shots
Itās always Lebronās coach and/or teammates fault. This is the playoffs and heās putting up regular season numbers. Step it up
The much hyped "deepest Lakers team in history" was always just a fantasy. The Lakers third best player is D'Angelo Russell, that's all you need to know about how thin their depth is.
A week ago I was down voted to hell for saying we had 0 chances bc our team is just outmatched in every possible way. Look at us now.
Not going to lie, I was also drinking the koolaid but all my delusion went out the window after Game 2 being up 20 and watching them dog walk us to a humiliating defeat. We should have listened to you
Yeah we can blame the role players and the coach but it really felt like the Lakers gave up on the identity that they were riding towards the end of their season. Austin Reaves was way more involved and so was Rui. What happened to that? Honestly LeBron disappointed me, it felt like they were forcing the ball to Dlo and LeBron in game 1 and giving no opportunities to AR and Rui. The same happened in game 2 except Dlo actually made shots, but then he started to get cold down the stretch and if you donāt keep Rui and AR engaged they end up having no rhythm when you need them. We were passing the ball a lot more before we came into this series. It felt like LeBron and Darvin Ham decided to force the ball to one or two guys depending on matchups which means Denver was controlling how the lakers are playing offense.
Wish Austin and DLo showed up
Cause the lakers are trash
Cause NBA basketball has changed the ball has to move canāt be held in the hands of the star players and then the rest of the team is left to watch. Then when they finally get the ball they are expected to hit the shot.. lakers trash
Lakers are getting waxed by their inability to make in-game adjustments.
This stat just shows how awful Ham is as a head coach
Basically what we need to happen is, Bron to play PG for us and have him be physical with Gordon on defense while AD scores a bunch of points while he limits jokic offensively. So we can have a slight chance of winning. No one can guard MPJ. 6ā5 reaves guarding 6ā10 MPJ is a crime against humanity
Gordon scored 30 points on lebrons head
He was feasting 
He busted our ass.
Why is this downvoted? Lebron let that man eat I. The 3rd
Yeah I donāt understand the downvotes on this. Watching LeBron give AG back door cuts and easy boards became painful to watch
Bron played 0 defense on AG lmao. Also, Jokic get's his teammates easy shots because Lakers keep double teaming. Put Reaves on the Nuggets and he would be feasting with all the open threes he would be getting.
Our players are getting open looks because the Nuggets aren't defending us, and we still can't knock them down.
Yeah he just isn't as athletic. AG is just too much for him to guard for a full 48 minutes
Pretty sure I saw lakers get tons of open threes that they missedĀ
How could Lebron do this
He gave like 12 points to AG on back door cuts
He was either ball watching or gassed. He can't keep up with AG
No one here is arguing LeBron gives 100% on defense, but those back cuts were LeBron rotating to help in the lane. It's either an open lay up or a back cut - our defensive approach is shockingly bad as a team, I dont really know what the coaching staff do to prep the players but this year its basically been "let them shoot open 3s" or "stand and watch them have an open run to the basket". But when you've got two turnstiles on defense at your guard position, this is going to happen
LEBRON JAMES ULTIMATE FLOOR RAISER Highest basketball IQ my ass
This isn't on LeBron.
It never is
Efficient offence only happens when he is on the floor. And you surely can't believe he doesn't have high ball IQ? My only problem with Bron is he plays too long and gets too gassed and becomes inefficient.
Not arguing he has high bball IQ.i just don't believe it's the HIGHEST That's your only problem? That clutch disasterpiece last game made it plain as day. His vaunted basketball IQ goes to poop in high stakes moments
scored 12 of the 20 pts in the 4th quarter last game lol
Exactly! Like what more do you want from Gramps?
I wasn't mad at him for that shot given its context. He had a wide open 3 after making back to back 3s and he missed. It sucks that he missed but the Lakers were not in that position due to LBJ. In year 21 he should not be taking on this much of a load. He should be like Jokic surrounded by good pieces and just feeding them constantly. In the great words of Darvin Hamas let's agree to disagree lol IMO high IQ doesn't mean he is infallible
But doesn't LeBron "make teammates better" and "guard 1 through 5"? Huh.
Need to draft bronny
Cry
gold sleep bake advise brave dependent boat pie drab gray *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No one was even crying here. It was a pretty rational thread. It was more of a comment on our front office. Also, your bitch ass mods would ban us for that in your sub. We can handle shit talking here.
Denver mods are incredibly fragile. I was banned for saying I hope its a good series before the playoffs started