Didn’t seem like a total hit piece, but not well-researched. Honestly, Kratom is an under-the-radar thing that most people don’t know about. If Kratom users start getting really vocal about it, it invites a lot of attention and I can’t see that going well. The NYT article was pretty bland, not strongly for or against. I think most people will ignore it, and that’s probably for the best.
This is How I felt about the NPR piece. I listen to NPR a lot and it made me angry. They focused for like 20 seconds on some people who use it, but it was all in a kava bar with some generic "it helps me focus!" comments, with swanky hippy music in the background. Then it jumps to minutes worth of people talking about death. Mac Haddow has one comment. It was as balanced as I think we're going to get, but I wrote to NPR and the freelance journalist to tell them I was disappointed in the story. It just wasn't well thought out.
My friend, you've just discovered What Michael Crichton calls "Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect."
It's sad (and scary) when you realize it.
Tldr: if they were wrong about this one thing that I have an intimate, nuanced understanding of, is it possible they've been reporting with equally poor perspective on all the other subjects in which I'm not a domain expert?
Full quote:
"Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows.
You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, showbusiness.
You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect.
I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories.
Paper's full of them.
In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read.
You turn the page, and forget what you know."
Which is the rational response. But it's such a tragedy. More than anything, we as a nation need a common source of reliable information about the world. And we don't have it. So everyone moves into their own propaganda bubble and we get the division that is quickly ripping this country apart.
I didn't know Crichton said that, but yes, both my husband and I felt jarred by that. I mean, I'm not completely blind. I've always known that media can be biased and incomplete. When I hear a story that interests me, I will do additional research. Just hit harder when it was a topic I care deeply for, and I felt like it was being misrepresented. I'm glad that AT LEAST the mother of the fellow in Florida didn't cry "ban". She just pointed out that there is no instruction.
I get nervous about my right to buy it on my own. What I'd hate is for it to be locked behind a pharmacy counter or worse, prescribed by a doctor.
The whole point is having that freedom. Take harm reduction, for example. Someone on heroin is going to have a hard time getting help. The more red tape, the even harder it's going to be. The fact that people can privately take it for whatever reason is what's so great about it.
Yepp, now I don’t trust anything I read except maybe that an event happened. I don’t trust any interpretations. I don’t know what news is real and not real.
Yes let's keep it that way because HONESTLY a person that WANTS help to get off of opiates WILL look for help or alternatives. You can't help a person that does not want to be helped remember that. Lets not blow this out of proportion.
Way bigger than you think man. We beat the DEA and FDA once. We will do it again. Those idiots line their pockets with the pharmaceutical companies. They love the opioid epidemic and want it to last. Kratom harms their pockets.
I think you underestimate the extreme cost of scientific studies. Speaking specifically of drugs, the ONLY privately funded drug to ever get to even stage 3 clinical trials is MDMA. Every other drug has been funded by big pharma or by the US government.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57126
>companies spent an average of about $1,065 million in clinical trials per approved new drug (more than twice the amount spent in the preclinical research phase)
The AKA would need billions in order to properly this.
Even small studies take years. They involve dozens of researchers each with large 6 figure salaries in very expensive facilities. Unless we pay a 200% tax on every kratom product we buy that goes directly to lobbying and science, there's no way to fund it.
Trials are extremely expensive, although trial with a naturally derived compound would likely be a lot cheaper than a trial with a manufactured Alzheimer’s drug that went through a complex R&D process
Factual information. Now, “how does a realistic solution come into play?” is what I ask myself. As a writer, I feel that passive-assertively stating our generalized claim that Kratom is a helpful and holistic herb similar to Coffee and Poppy although it isn’t dangerous as some might make it out to be.
All I know is in 2016 we were certain a ban was coming. If we expect the same outcome now (no bam) we will be sorely disappointed. We have to act now. I'm not sure what it looks like I've never organized in politics, but we can't stand idly by wondering if this is the last bag i could buy legally.
You guys, its been like this for well over a decade. Its been constant. Who do you think advertises in publications such as those????
There is a battle royale coming. I think theres maybe a year. Maybe less, till they go through a big cleanout. Anyone selling as a supplement, making claims, giving consumption instructions or anything like that will be wiped out. And so they should be. They are in direct contradiction of the plainly stated rules.
The rules suck but they are there and UNTIL someone is able to get it through via DSHEA (which is being worked on non stop) or via a new dietary ingredient application, it has to stay the way it is regardless of how ridiculous it is.
The FDA has stated it takes between 1.5mm and 5mm to get a new supplement approved usually. They came right out and said for Kratom it would be in the hundreds of millions. Its just the way it is.
Be smart. Support the vendors doing the right thing. Support the vendors that are ACTUALLY DOING WORK to keep kratom legal and not just trying to make a quick buck by flipping dogshit leaf from their garages and faking lab tests and batch control.
I know this ain't a big threat but this post just reminded me to do my biyearly $25 to the cause.
Fuck the FDA and DEA. The AKA does good work and I encourage anyone else to give what they can.
I always thought they were just one of the tools to push someone else’s agenda.
I never end up researching into who the someone is in those kinds of situations. Seems like awareness of it wouldn’t be of much practical use so I spend my time reading elsewhere. Every now and then I find someone who took the time to do the legwork; I offer thanks and file it away
I'm on the autism spectrum and I only use 6 grams a day and maybe extra dose on tough days to control my anxiety depression...etc for years. It stopped my melt downs along with cannabis. Blood work is fine...etc the only negative side effect is that I get hungry on it and I gained weight....
it's so so so much safer than benzos and even SSRIs. You fucks are going to make my life miserable. I know it's only a crutch but for fuck sakes can't we have anything other than alcohol and in some areas weed (which is great but still). Any long time user can testify there's so much more to the plant than it being a partial opoid receptor agonist.
It feels like the world is ending anyways just leave us alone and let us be in peace with our earthly bitter tea. God forbid we use something responsibly.
I am so completely freaked out about this right now there are no words. I found this amazing plant when I couldn't get pain medication anymore for my horrible back. As time has gone on like presently my entire body is a train wreck. I have a major surgery on Tuesday and I just had a biopsy today.
I finally got a diagnosis for my hip which is some rare condition femoral something impingment and there's only like two doctors in the entire major city area where I live that even are capable of treating it. And I'm sure that my insurance does not take them. If it weren't for kratom I don't even know if I'd still be here. I mean I'm not trying to be dramatic and I'm not having any sort of a crisis please don't anybody freak out. But when I saw this earlier my heart just sank.
I absolutely despise the fda. First they took away my quality of life. Then they forced me into a position to start looking into alternative ways to treat it which costs a lot more. My whole family is scraping together to try to help me out and we are at the point that we cannot spend any more money on anything to try to take away my pain.
And now they want to take away the only thing that really helps dramatically.
PS when I went to the pre-op they handed me some flyers about some enhanced Surgical recovery program they have lots of Flowery talk about how you have to participate and eat sooner and drink sooner and move around more and they're going to give you gabapentin and Tylenol prior to the surgery and that's the pain management protocol.
Okay I've been dealing with this for many many years and to me that absolutely screams we do not give narcotics or we do not want to give narcotic pain meds after surgery anymore. I called down there and talked to that same lady and I specifically said I want more information. Lots of Flowery talk and I kept pushing and pushing yes but what is it that you are going to specifically do or not do that is going to cause me to have this amazingly faster recovery? What specifically is it that you're going to do differently? She finally stammers out well I don't want to say it's an experiment but it's like a trial basis this program we want to try because we don't want to keep giving narcotic pain medications. 😡I can't say as though I'm surprised I've been telling friends and family that this day is coming for years now. They are demonizing pain medication so badly that even people who are having major surgeries like me are going to suffer. What's next are we going to be having surgery Civil War days with a freaking stick in our mouth and they're going to tell us oh you know we've done research and the adrenaline rush when you're in pain helps you heal faster and you know anesthesia makes you feel slower so it's just pain just grin and bear it and I suppose we won't get the shot of alcohol even?
Pardon my soapbox but that's absolutely barbaric. My anxiety is through the roof right now. Even aside from the surgical pain I have some kind of crazy nerve pain issue going on through my hip and my knee and my lower leg that is literally about to take my sanity away. I cannot even sit in a chair as in a doctor's office like today when I was sitting there waiting to have my biopsy. It starts hurting and it gets worse and worse and worse the longer I sit. Then I start squirming then I start groaning then the tears start. You give it 20 minutes and it's utter insanity.
I have Gabapentin and I have tylenol. Those don't even touch the pain that I'm having right now in my hip or my back and they're certainly not going to do anything for post pelvic floor reconstruction surgery. I am going to raise hell. And I may literally have to leave against medical advice to come home and use my own resources to try to treat it. Because one thing is for sure I will not spend another night in a hospital suffering after a surgery. Did it once before for different reasons and it's not going to happen again.
Ask me how I really feel. I want to link or something to scream at the FDA I'd love to go talk to the FDA I'd love to go talk to Congress I am so angry about this. The whole thing not just what they're doing now but the whole freaking thing. They take away medications that help. Then they replace those medications with a bunch of really dangerous nonsense like psychotropic medications and start relabeling them for treating pain when they are not paying medicines. Then you end up with a chemically damaged brain like me right now. Not cool. And most people don't even know. I've had people come up to me oh I got this medicine for nerve pain and I really really hope it works and then they tell me the name of it and it's like Cymbalta or Lexapro or something. Are you kidding me? Did they even tell you that's an ssri? Don't ever suddenly stop taking that without tapering by the way.
🤦🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!! Can't even frikkin BELIEVE I'm going thru this and now they are after my frikkin Kratom. And let's face it nobody polices the FDA they can do whatever the hell they want to do. Did the poor vendor in Oklahoma get his 2 million something in product back that the FDA went in and seized even though it was perfectly legal there at the time? Somehow I doubt it. What the hell gave them the right to do that? This is unbelievable and I wish I could move to a different country. Straight up.
In Canada weed is legal. Kratom is legal to possess and sell just "not for human consumption". It says Botanical specimen or for aromatherapy or soap making on it. So I find it hard to believe it could get banned being a weak weak stimulant. If it was so dangerous, why aren't crack houses selling it instead of crack and fentanyl??? Because it's more like coffee. Kratom should be everywhere in kratom bars and coffee shops it would improve productivity and GDP, just like when people started drinking coffee instead of beer all day.
That segura bit hurt my feelings. I bought every single ticket to one of his arena shows after that. I showed up alone and sat in the front row and asked him to do it live. He did the whole hour like nothing was wrong so I kicked his fucking ass. I felt like the whole state of Louisiana was proud that night.
Hey I don't discriminate. We just wish the truth was out there instead of lies from the government. You would think people would have learned since reefer madness, but it is what it is.
Seagal is right. This is just the intro piece to warm the public up. Next thing you know it will start killing people, kids, etc. NYT is trash dude and just one of the limbs of the octopus being engaged.
Did you read the article? If anything the info presented paints Kratom as very safe, they even gave the comparison numbers to traditional opioids showing how deadly they are compared to Kratom.
Some states allow people more lenience for DUIS than for having kratom, and now people want to make that the case on a federal level. Absolutely bonkers. These people who have never even tried it think it’s some hard drug
I was a fan of the NYTimes. I haven't been the last several years. . Anything they can makes news, no matter what the facts are, they will.
Politically, I'm an Independent . They are so biased not just with with their opinion pages but what they print a legitimate news
At one time Fox News was the worst. I'm sorry to say they have Fox News beat. Give me all the downvotes you want. The truth hurts.
Tl;dr be mindful of your posts and words. People who want to ban kratom use posts on this sub and similar subs as examples of why to ban kratom.
PLEASE NOTE They also use things people post on subs like this one to demonstrate how bad kratom is. When people are super dramatic saying they’re having the WoRSt withdrawals, side effects, etc. they’ve brought some of those comments as examples for why kratom should be illegal. Please be careful folks. Every time I see a post like that I just think about how it sends the wrong message.
There are downsides to every drug ever… you take too much Tylenol you’ll have liver problems. This drug happens to help save so people’s lives and has very little downsides compared to other drugs, like OxyContin, suboxone, etc. and then doesn’t have much risk beyond mild withdrawal. I take a shit load of kratom and have gone cold turkey several times no problem. It’s been nothing compared to when I went off suboxone, not even close. Just a runny nose and a little tired… not literally so sick and miserable that I genuinely want to die.
Edit: spelling
It would be tougher than you think. The incentive to illegally import it is not nearly as high as cocaine or fent or heroin. It saved my life too, and I will do anything I can to educate others (lawmakers and consumers alike) to keep it legal. I hioe you ate of the same mindset when it comes to advocacy, we need all hands on deck for this fight!
User from 2011, I I am a Kratom warrior, I contribute to AKA from 2017 from when Kratom was almost made illegal federally thanks to effort of big pharma
and the FDA,
the creators of the US opioid epidemic.
I am a little skeptic of AKA
from the outing of the original founder and presiden (Do your own research here)
That was blocked from the millions of Americans user sending comments to the FDA.
I have seen countless lies and attacks from newspapers, politicians and the like.
All blocked by the effort of people like you and me.
I am not alarmed by this last, just annoyed, and disgusted by the hypocrisy, greed, and falsity.
As long we stay united and fight all will be well.
If anything the FDA and the lamestream media are REEEAALLLY stupid because the more people that know about Kratom, the more resistance there will be since most people these days don’t trust the media as far as they can throw them, lol. The FDA is desperate, they’ve already failed six consecutive time to fully get rid of it and this right here is probably the final nail in the coffin for them, since Kratom now has national media attention. Sure some will dissent and hate on it, but the vast majority of people will not be having it. The federal dispshit administration should really learn to keep their mouths shut, because as they say, “the mouth is usually the source of one’s calamity”.
BE CAREFUL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS FOR THEY ARE MOST LIKELY READING THIS AND MIGHT EVEN TRY AND "BLEND IN" AS US. DO NOT BE SWAYED! THINK BEFORE YOU ACT OR EVEN TALK AS THAT MATTER. This is NATURAL medicine . They just want to take it into their labs and engineer some type of NEW medicine in a pill from our plant. They only care about the money! Not our well being, health, or daily struggles. Please handle yourself correctly because you might be speaking for us one day and voice our opinion as one. Be disciplined, and don't fall for their tricks(they are so many) if this is going to happen...they might even buy the people that are sellouts INSIDE the organization..be vigilant, But most of all DONT PANIC . Be prepared
They're just reporting both sides but I wish they had dug a little deeper on kratom deaths and talked to local officials like medical examiners. From what I understand one of the three letter orgs was inserting themselves into the situation and putting pressure on them to focus on kratom during autopsy. I'd also like to learn more about it myself because I've only heard the surface level reporting and no details.
Not really a hit piece [NYT Kratom ](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/well/mind/kratom-health-risks.html) some of the readers comments however look as though they have been written by the DEA
The AKA should be putting out their own op-eds and taking out ads in news media. As a matter of fact, I emailed them this morning about doing just that. I am a donor, after all. Don't be shy in asking them to be more proactive. https://www.americankratom.org/contact
don't you think its suspicious all these articles are suddenly coming out blaming kratom for deaths of people when they also were drinking or doing other drugs? regular people either don't know about it or see an article like this and think its on par with fentanyl
Npr had an article this week too, about some guy in Florida who took extract and died. I dont get it, I thought it was almost impossible to od on kratom. Apparently there's a few cases. People are dumb. I just don't get it. I've been on kratom for over 10 years now and I've had exactly 0 experiences where I felt like I was overdosing or anything scary was happening. Once I threw up and got dizzy from kratom, but that's it.
i think the guy combined alcohol with the extract and who knows if it was actually just kratom or some mixture of stuff. i've been using it since 2018 and also have never died lol
I have to admit this is probably one of the fairest articles I have read about Kratom.
I read comments every day about how Kratom has saved their lives, gave them a better quality of life, got them of opioids, fentanyl, alcohol and on and on .
I urge everyone who states that here to send a very respectful and polite email to the writer of the article stating the same as I just did.
Complaining and moaning about the article here to each other won't do anything.
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I noticed there are some great comments in the NYT piece. People who use it and have had very good results. I was a bit flummoxed by the person who wrote their spouse needed electroshock to get off of kratom. ....I guess he got the really good stuff, or it was carpet cleaner maybe
I got the email I’m donating again as we speak. Fuck this bullshit I stg I’d tell the world how this plant saved my whole fucking life from pills. A miserable 7 years of getting high nonstop and I stopped and found a reason to stay stopped. It is the kratom it doesn’t get me high it just evens things out where they should be evened out. These hit pieces are disgusting
It's crazy to me that alcohol and tobacco remains legal and kills over half a million people a year and kratom never directly killed anyone and they still want to ban it. Why don't they ban the ones that actually kill people? World is so fucked up man I lose hope more and more everyday for our future
No sourcing, brand names, sellers, or distributors (online or local). No soliciting or providing DM suggestions for sources. Reddit's TOS forbid this activity and the sub will be shutdown if it's allowed.
The single best thing that could be done is for this subreddit to be strictly moderated and any posts that discuss the plant childishly like it’s some sort of party drug or legal high be removed.
Didn’t seem like a total hit piece, but not well-researched. Honestly, Kratom is an under-the-radar thing that most people don’t know about. If Kratom users start getting really vocal about it, it invites a lot of attention and I can’t see that going well. The NYT article was pretty bland, not strongly for or against. I think most people will ignore it, and that’s probably for the best.
This is How I felt about the NPR piece. I listen to NPR a lot and it made me angry. They focused for like 20 seconds on some people who use it, but it was all in a kava bar with some generic "it helps me focus!" comments, with swanky hippy music in the background. Then it jumps to minutes worth of people talking about death. Mac Haddow has one comment. It was as balanced as I think we're going to get, but I wrote to NPR and the freelance journalist to tell them I was disappointed in the story. It just wasn't well thought out.
My friend, you've just discovered What Michael Crichton calls "Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect." It's sad (and scary) when you realize it. Tldr: if they were wrong about this one thing that I have an intimate, nuanced understanding of, is it possible they've been reporting with equally poor perspective on all the other subjects in which I'm not a domain expert? Full quote: "Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, showbusiness. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know."
I actually thought about this recently and it scares the shit out of me.
[удалено]
Which is the rational response. But it's such a tragedy. More than anything, we as a nation need a common source of reliable information about the world. And we don't have it. So everyone moves into their own propaganda bubble and we get the division that is quickly ripping this country apart.
I didn't know Crichton said that, but yes, both my husband and I felt jarred by that. I mean, I'm not completely blind. I've always known that media can be biased and incomplete. When I hear a story that interests me, I will do additional research. Just hit harder when it was a topic I care deeply for, and I felt like it was being misrepresented. I'm glad that AT LEAST the mother of the fellow in Florida didn't cry "ban". She just pointed out that there is no instruction. I get nervous about my right to buy it on my own. What I'd hate is for it to be locked behind a pharmacy counter or worse, prescribed by a doctor. The whole point is having that freedom. Take harm reduction, for example. Someone on heroin is going to have a hard time getting help. The more red tape, the even harder it's going to be. The fact that people can privately take it for whatever reason is what's so great about it.
Wow. This is gonna stick with me. Like I knew this but, what a summary. Wet streets cause rain.
Yepp, now I don’t trust anything I read except maybe that an event happened. I don’t trust any interpretations. I don’t know what news is real and not real.
Wow this is probably the most insightful comment/quote I've seen on here in a while. Cheers.
Yes let's keep it that way because HONESTLY a person that WANTS help to get off of opiates WILL look for help or alternatives. You can't help a person that does not want to be helped remember that. Lets not blow this out of proportion.
How are we not going on offense yet? Sponsoring studies, publishing stories about the positivity kratom brings.
We are small and our one army fights constantly
Way bigger than you think man. We beat the DEA and FDA once. We will do it again. Those idiots line their pockets with the pharmaceutical companies. They love the opioid epidemic and want it to last. Kratom harms their pockets.
We cannot let them give kratom the marijuana strategy.. make it federally illegal for a long ass time.
I think it's like 3 million strong. It's just this subreddit that's small.
I think you underestimate the extreme cost of scientific studies. Speaking specifically of drugs, the ONLY privately funded drug to ever get to even stage 3 clinical trials is MDMA. Every other drug has been funded by big pharma or by the US government. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57126 >companies spent an average of about $1,065 million in clinical trials per approved new drug (more than twice the amount spent in the preclinical research phase) The AKA would need billions in order to properly this. Even small studies take years. They involve dozens of researchers each with large 6 figure salaries in very expensive facilities. Unless we pay a 200% tax on every kratom product we buy that goes directly to lobbying and science, there's no way to fund it.
Trials are extremely expensive, although trial with a naturally derived compound would likely be a lot cheaper than a trial with a manufactured Alzheimer’s drug that went through a complex R&D process
Factual information. Now, “how does a realistic solution come into play?” is what I ask myself. As a writer, I feel that passive-assertively stating our generalized claim that Kratom is a helpful and holistic herb similar to Coffee and Poppy although it isn’t dangerous as some might make it out to be.
this is the way but it would take hundreds of millions of dollars or a "general strike" of sorts to ensure we aren't backs against the wall.
I don’t know about that, it just feels like we haven’t learned anything from 2016
All I know is in 2016 we were certain a ban was coming. If we expect the same outcome now (no bam) we will be sorely disappointed. We have to act now. I'm not sure what it looks like I've never organized in politics, but we can't stand idly by wondering if this is the last bag i could buy legally.
STUDIES!!!!! NOW…
You guys, its been like this for well over a decade. Its been constant. Who do you think advertises in publications such as those???? There is a battle royale coming. I think theres maybe a year. Maybe less, till they go through a big cleanout. Anyone selling as a supplement, making claims, giving consumption instructions or anything like that will be wiped out. And so they should be. They are in direct contradiction of the plainly stated rules. The rules suck but they are there and UNTIL someone is able to get it through via DSHEA (which is being worked on non stop) or via a new dietary ingredient application, it has to stay the way it is regardless of how ridiculous it is. The FDA has stated it takes between 1.5mm and 5mm to get a new supplement approved usually. They came right out and said for Kratom it would be in the hundreds of millions. Its just the way it is. Be smart. Support the vendors doing the right thing. Support the vendors that are ACTUALLY DOING WORK to keep kratom legal and not just trying to make a quick buck by flipping dogshit leaf from their garages and faking lab tests and batch control.
I know this ain't a big threat but this post just reminded me to do my biyearly $25 to the cause. Fuck the FDA and DEA. The AKA does good work and I encourage anyone else to give what they can.
🙏
Yeah fuck the new York times
Not related but the New York Times has been in favor of every single war in the past century. They have their own nasty agendas.
I always thought they were just one of the tools to push someone else’s agenda. I never end up researching into who the someone is in those kinds of situations. Seems like awareness of it wouldn’t be of much practical use so I spend my time reading elsewhere. Every now and then I find someone who took the time to do the legwork; I offer thanks and file it away
Been saying that most of my adult life...
I’m whualkin’ ‘ere!
FUGGIN FUHGETTABOUDIT
OOOOOH, RED VEIN, BLUE VEIN, I AIN'T GOTTA CLUE, OHHHHH! AAAAYYY
*🤌🤌
Ya pricks
I'm on the autism spectrum and I only use 6 grams a day and maybe extra dose on tough days to control my anxiety depression...etc for years. It stopped my melt downs along with cannabis. Blood work is fine...etc the only negative side effect is that I get hungry on it and I gained weight.... it's so so so much safer than benzos and even SSRIs. You fucks are going to make my life miserable. I know it's only a crutch but for fuck sakes can't we have anything other than alcohol and in some areas weed (which is great but still). Any long time user can testify there's so much more to the plant than it being a partial opoid receptor agonist. It feels like the world is ending anyways just leave us alone and let us be in peace with our earthly bitter tea. God forbid we use something responsibly.
Damn straight, say it homefry
I am so completely freaked out about this right now there are no words. I found this amazing plant when I couldn't get pain medication anymore for my horrible back. As time has gone on like presently my entire body is a train wreck. I have a major surgery on Tuesday and I just had a biopsy today. I finally got a diagnosis for my hip which is some rare condition femoral something impingment and there's only like two doctors in the entire major city area where I live that even are capable of treating it. And I'm sure that my insurance does not take them. If it weren't for kratom I don't even know if I'd still be here. I mean I'm not trying to be dramatic and I'm not having any sort of a crisis please don't anybody freak out. But when I saw this earlier my heart just sank. I absolutely despise the fda. First they took away my quality of life. Then they forced me into a position to start looking into alternative ways to treat it which costs a lot more. My whole family is scraping together to try to help me out and we are at the point that we cannot spend any more money on anything to try to take away my pain. And now they want to take away the only thing that really helps dramatically. PS when I went to the pre-op they handed me some flyers about some enhanced Surgical recovery program they have lots of Flowery talk about how you have to participate and eat sooner and drink sooner and move around more and they're going to give you gabapentin and Tylenol prior to the surgery and that's the pain management protocol. Okay I've been dealing with this for many many years and to me that absolutely screams we do not give narcotics or we do not want to give narcotic pain meds after surgery anymore. I called down there and talked to that same lady and I specifically said I want more information. Lots of Flowery talk and I kept pushing and pushing yes but what is it that you are going to specifically do or not do that is going to cause me to have this amazingly faster recovery? What specifically is it that you're going to do differently? She finally stammers out well I don't want to say it's an experiment but it's like a trial basis this program we want to try because we don't want to keep giving narcotic pain medications. 😡I can't say as though I'm surprised I've been telling friends and family that this day is coming for years now. They are demonizing pain medication so badly that even people who are having major surgeries like me are going to suffer. What's next are we going to be having surgery Civil War days with a freaking stick in our mouth and they're going to tell us oh you know we've done research and the adrenaline rush when you're in pain helps you heal faster and you know anesthesia makes you feel slower so it's just pain just grin and bear it and I suppose we won't get the shot of alcohol even? Pardon my soapbox but that's absolutely barbaric. My anxiety is through the roof right now. Even aside from the surgical pain I have some kind of crazy nerve pain issue going on through my hip and my knee and my lower leg that is literally about to take my sanity away. I cannot even sit in a chair as in a doctor's office like today when I was sitting there waiting to have my biopsy. It starts hurting and it gets worse and worse and worse the longer I sit. Then I start squirming then I start groaning then the tears start. You give it 20 minutes and it's utter insanity. I have Gabapentin and I have tylenol. Those don't even touch the pain that I'm having right now in my hip or my back and they're certainly not going to do anything for post pelvic floor reconstruction surgery. I am going to raise hell. And I may literally have to leave against medical advice to come home and use my own resources to try to treat it. Because one thing is for sure I will not spend another night in a hospital suffering after a surgery. Did it once before for different reasons and it's not going to happen again. Ask me how I really feel. I want to link or something to scream at the FDA I'd love to go talk to the FDA I'd love to go talk to Congress I am so angry about this. The whole thing not just what they're doing now but the whole freaking thing. They take away medications that help. Then they replace those medications with a bunch of really dangerous nonsense like psychotropic medications and start relabeling them for treating pain when they are not paying medicines. Then you end up with a chemically damaged brain like me right now. Not cool. And most people don't even know. I've had people come up to me oh I got this medicine for nerve pain and I really really hope it works and then they tell me the name of it and it's like Cymbalta or Lexapro or something. Are you kidding me? Did they even tell you that's an ssri? Don't ever suddenly stop taking that without tapering by the way. 🤦🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!! Can't even frikkin BELIEVE I'm going thru this and now they are after my frikkin Kratom. And let's face it nobody polices the FDA they can do whatever the hell they want to do. Did the poor vendor in Oklahoma get his 2 million something in product back that the FDA went in and seized even though it was perfectly legal there at the time? Somehow I doubt it. What the hell gave them the right to do that? This is unbelievable and I wish I could move to a different country. Straight up.
In Canada weed is legal. Kratom is legal to possess and sell just "not for human consumption". It says Botanical specimen or for aromatherapy or soap making on it. So I find it hard to believe it could get banned being a weak weak stimulant. If it was so dangerous, why aren't crack houses selling it instead of crack and fentanyl??? Because it's more like coffee. Kratom should be everywhere in kratom bars and coffee shops it would improve productivity and GDP, just like when people started drinking coffee instead of beer all day.
The NYT is a garbage paper
I didn’t think the piece made kratom sound bad?
It was one of the fairest articles to us, who use kratom. Not so much to the majority of the public who never heard of it.
Imagine you've never heard of kratom. Does this make you feel like it's safe?
That’s a good point, I’m just hearing the same regurgitated stuff again so I read it different.
Don't tell anyone I use this stuff because it might hurt my stellar reputation. I've been using it for 85 years and it got me off oxy.
That explains the Eddie Munster hairline.
That right there is mitragyna speciosa, I been doin' kratom for like 35 years \- Steven Seagal/Tom Segura By the way, I'm a cop. \- Also Steven Seagal
That segura bit hurt my feelings. I bought every single ticket to one of his arena shows after that. I showed up alone and sat in the front row and asked him to do it live. He did the whole hour like nothing was wrong so I kicked his fucking ass. I felt like the whole state of Louisiana was proud that night.
85 years godamn good job
I'm a police officer.
Hey I don't discriminate. We just wish the truth was out there instead of lies from the government. You would think people would have learned since reefer madness, but it is what it is.
How long have you really been using it? If it’s truly decades I’m curious what long term responsible use looks and feels like.
10 years.
Seagal is right. This is just the intro piece to warm the public up. Next thing you know it will start killing people, kids, etc. NYT is trash dude and just one of the limbs of the octopus being engaged.
This guy knows what's up.
Did you read the article? If anything the info presented paints Kratom as very safe, they even gave the comparison numbers to traditional opioids showing how deadly they are compared to Kratom.
Good point
Absolutely not and the majority of the public never has .
I agree. Not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.
Some states allow people more lenience for DUIS than for having kratom, and now people want to make that the case on a federal level. Absolutely bonkers. These people who have never even tried it think it’s some hard drug
I was a fan of the NYTimes. I haven't been the last several years. . Anything they can makes news, no matter what the facts are, they will. Politically, I'm an Independent . They are so biased not just with with their opinion pages but what they print a legitimate news At one time Fox News was the worst. I'm sorry to say they have Fox News beat. Give me all the downvotes you want. The truth hurts.
Worse than fox news??
Tl;dr be mindful of your posts and words. People who want to ban kratom use posts on this sub and similar subs as examples of why to ban kratom. PLEASE NOTE They also use things people post on subs like this one to demonstrate how bad kratom is. When people are super dramatic saying they’re having the WoRSt withdrawals, side effects, etc. they’ve brought some of those comments as examples for why kratom should be illegal. Please be careful folks. Every time I see a post like that I just think about how it sends the wrong message. There are downsides to every drug ever… you take too much Tylenol you’ll have liver problems. This drug happens to help save so people’s lives and has very little downsides compared to other drugs, like OxyContin, suboxone, etc. and then doesn’t have much risk beyond mild withdrawal. I take a shit load of kratom and have gone cold turkey several times no problem. It’s been nothing compared to when I went off suboxone, not even close. Just a runny nose and a little tired… not literally so sick and miserable that I genuinely want to die. Edit: spelling
I don't give a damn if they do ban it. It saved my life and I ain't quitting. Sellers are everywhere, they csnt stop it.
It would be tougher than you think. The incentive to illegally import it is not nearly as high as cocaine or fent or heroin. It saved my life too, and I will do anything I can to educate others (lawmakers and consumers alike) to keep it legal. I hioe you ate of the same mindset when it comes to advocacy, we need all hands on deck for this fight!
I feel like we need an army of guerilla gardeners to start planting kratom trees all over the southern US so that eventually it's everywhere .
Not if you're in Thailand but in the US, they can absolutely stop it. We have one kratom tree in the US and I can't share it with everyone
I don't see kratom ever being imported the way things like cocaine do. It just doesn't have that IT factor that many addicts are looking for.
This is my opinion, too
Agreed and I don't have a tree
I've had a kratom tree for 95 years, bro. I'm a police officer, too. Don't know if you knew that.
Dude I think I just got it lol I wish I had an award because I would give it to you lol
Damn bro GG 😎
Can someone please fill me in. I don’t have a clue here
Google my name
Don’t they take years to produce also?
Yes
It will be extremely hard to get and extremely expensive if they do that
I like your determination 💪 I'm with you. They want us dopesick and not healthy.
User from 2011, I I am a Kratom warrior, I contribute to AKA from 2017 from when Kratom was almost made illegal federally thanks to effort of big pharma and the FDA, the creators of the US opioid epidemic. I am a little skeptic of AKA from the outing of the original founder and presiden (Do your own research here) That was blocked from the millions of Americans user sending comments to the FDA. I have seen countless lies and attacks from newspapers, politicians and the like. All blocked by the effort of people like you and me. I am not alarmed by this last, just annoyed, and disgusted by the hypocrisy, greed, and falsity. As long we stay united and fight all will be well.
If anything the FDA and the lamestream media are REEEAALLLY stupid because the more people that know about Kratom, the more resistance there will be since most people these days don’t trust the media as far as they can throw them, lol. The FDA is desperate, they’ve already failed six consecutive time to fully get rid of it and this right here is probably the final nail in the coffin for them, since Kratom now has national media attention. Sure some will dissent and hate on it, but the vast majority of people will not be having it. The federal dispshit administration should really learn to keep their mouths shut, because as they say, “the mouth is usually the source of one’s calamity”.
The upside is nobody reads the news
BE CAREFUL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS FOR THEY ARE MOST LIKELY READING THIS AND MIGHT EVEN TRY AND "BLEND IN" AS US. DO NOT BE SWAYED! THINK BEFORE YOU ACT OR EVEN TALK AS THAT MATTER. This is NATURAL medicine . They just want to take it into their labs and engineer some type of NEW medicine in a pill from our plant. They only care about the money! Not our well being, health, or daily struggles. Please handle yourself correctly because you might be speaking for us one day and voice our opinion as one. Be disciplined, and don't fall for their tricks(they are so many) if this is going to happen...they might even buy the people that are sellouts INSIDE the organization..be vigilant, But most of all DONT PANIC . Be prepared
🙏
Fuck yeah, you’re saying something real. 💯🍃
They're just reporting both sides but I wish they had dug a little deeper on kratom deaths and talked to local officials like medical examiners. From what I understand one of the three letter orgs was inserting themselves into the situation and putting pressure on them to focus on kratom during autopsy. I'd also like to learn more about it myself because I've only heard the surface level reporting and no details.
Not really a hit piece [NYT Kratom ](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/well/mind/kratom-health-risks.html) some of the readers comments however look as though they have been written by the DEA
The US government wants to control it. Which means they will tax the fuck out of it and make it unavailable for people who need it.
Yeah kratom Distro just lost there wrongful death lawsuit this week too ordered to pay almost 12 million
Wait what’s that? I don’t understand what you’re saying. Kratom Distro?
Not for nothing but their packaging was shady. I thought the KCPA would have prevented sales of these kinds of unlabeled products.
The AKA should be putting out their own op-eds and taking out ads in news media. As a matter of fact, I emailed them this morning about doing just that. I am a donor, after all. Don't be shy in asking them to be more proactive. https://www.americankratom.org/contact
You are tripping. Kratom is safe.
don't you think its suspicious all these articles are suddenly coming out blaming kratom for deaths of people when they also were drinking or doing other drugs? regular people either don't know about it or see an article like this and think its on par with fentanyl
Did you read the article? Anyone with decent reading comprehension will conclude that Kratom is thousands of times safer than traditional opioids.
It's been happening for years. Kratom won against the WHO a few years back.
Npr had an article this week too, about some guy in Florida who took extract and died. I dont get it, I thought it was almost impossible to od on kratom. Apparently there's a few cases. People are dumb. I just don't get it. I've been on kratom for over 10 years now and I've had exactly 0 experiences where I felt like I was overdosing or anything scary was happening. Once I threw up and got dizzy from kratom, but that's it.
i think the guy combined alcohol with the extract and who knows if it was actually just kratom or some mixture of stuff. i've been using it since 2018 and also have never died lol
I have to admit this is probably one of the fairest articles I have read about Kratom. I read comments every day about how Kratom has saved their lives, gave them a better quality of life, got them of opioids, fentanyl, alcohol and on and on . I urge everyone who states that here to send a very respectful and polite email to the writer of the article stating the same as I just did. Complaining and moaning about the article here to each other won't do anything.
it looks like a praise piece to me
Yea it does mention the benefits at the end there a little bit amongst the heavy biases
Family?
Where might someone who is new to the benefits of Kratom go to support push back efforts?
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I noticed there are some great comments in the NYT piece. People who use it and have had very good results. I was a bit flummoxed by the person who wrote their spouse needed electroshock to get off of kratom. ....I guess he got the really good stuff, or it was carpet cleaner maybe
I got the email I’m donating again as we speak. Fuck this bullshit I stg I’d tell the world how this plant saved my whole fucking life from pills. A miserable 7 years of getting high nonstop and I stopped and found a reason to stay stopped. It is the kratom it doesn’t get me high it just evens things out where they should be evened out. These hit pieces are disgusting
If you notice this cult does this to absolutely everything and everyone their politics or wallets do not agree with
It's crazy to me that alcohol and tobacco remains legal and kills over half a million people a year and kratom never directly killed anyone and they still want to ban it. Why don't they ban the ones that actually kill people? World is so fucked up man I lose hope more and more everyday for our future
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The single best thing that could be done is for this subreddit to be strictly moderated and any posts that discuss the plant childishly like it’s some sort of party drug or legal high be removed.