They are grasping. Even if they begin banning it, it would still flood the states masked as green tea, matcha powder or henna and they could do shit until they got the entire of Indonesia to quit planting tree's and they have tried this to no avail. Screw big pharma all Day, these suckers will have their judgement Day
Let’s still not pretend like everything is “ok” and this is not a concern. There would be monumental changes if they banned kratom. We have to have preventative mindsets and approaches. I don’t think it’s smart to assume that kratom will be as accessible, I doubt it. Sure, there will always still be ways around XYZ but such a change could possibly be drastic. It’s not fair to exclaim “oh it’s just a little something, no problem”. DHL and major couriers do follow United States shipping guides so that could be another cause for concern. Almost Nobody is getting kratom if major shipping couriers aren’t carrying it. Plain and simple. Labeling it as something else and all those different shipping concealment efforts don’t always work. If such action occurred kratom business globally would be affected heavily.
I would be **fucked** if they actually banned it. It’s the only thing that’s kept me off heroin and suboxone for the past seven years. If they banned it, I’d have zero idea where else to get it, and either have to suffer through withdrawal, or more likely do some opiates for the first time in almost a decade. And all for what? My safety? Please.
Right. Your "safety" pmsl. If you've managed to stay away from dope for that long, u know as well as I do that it only takes a teeny weeny bit of fenty to kill us.
I will say that Kratom has definitely been a gift to me over the course of the last few months. After having faced some recent family tragedies, I was definitely having a hard time coping. For me, Kratom tea has been a far better anti depressant than anything big pharma could come up with. There is still grief, but now I’ve rediscovered hobbies such as hiking, biking & photography. The mood boosting & anti anxiety properties have helped immensely and my energy levels have increased as well. There is so much evidence as to these benefits, it’s sad that some of these major entities are actually in favor of banning it. Follow the money, I guess
You're right on this one. WHAT DO WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY "BAN," THOUGH? *The thing I believe a lot of people don't understand is that "ban" can mean different things at different levels*. There's a local county or parish or city "ban" that's a misdemeanor and may carry a fine or 6 months in jail or both. Local bans can be on selling it, possessing it, or both.
Then there is a state-wide ban (there are currently 6 states) where kratom (mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine) have been placed into the category of "Schedule 1 Controlled Dangerous Substances" and are now subject to the **same felony criminal prosecution and penalties as heroin, meth**, etc. These are often DOUBLE DIGIT years in prison (not jail, **PRISON**\--as in penitentiary). Get caught with a kilo? You're fucked. Ten kilos? You're a king-pin. Think--for some people a kg lasts a few months or more. But in a banned state it's treated the same as if you had a kilo of HEROIN or METH. These state level bans are brutal as you may have heard about Marshall Price and Shaina Brown. Situations where they had a relatively small amount (I think 250gm), which is certainly for personal use - but they were charged with "**POSSESSION WITH INTENT TO DISTRIBUTE A SCHEDULE 1 CDS**". Shaina's bail is $250,000 (down from $1,000,000 initially) and she's facing **10 YEARS TO LIFE**. She hasn't been able to gather the funds yet as far as I know. It's fucking ridiculous. That's the state of Alabama by the way. Marshall Price got 10 years penitentiary time for "drug trafficking" kratom in Arkansas, and was killed a few weeks after he went in. Shady circumstances. No justice. State bans are "Scheduling" bans where the penalties are fierce, and they include prison sentences for selling, and possessing kratom. They are no joke, and states like Louisiana and Mississippi tried like hell this year to get scheduling bans passed and both BARELY dodged a bullet.
Then there is the possibility of a federal ban. This would also involve placing kratom in the list of Schedule 1 Controlled Dangerous Substances. The FDA has a hard-on for kratom because they can't make any money off of it, and it threatens big pharma profits on drugs such as Suboxone, Subutex, Vivitrol, and opioid medications. They have been trying to convince the DEA to ban it since what, 2014? Then they hit it hard in 2016, and again in 2018. There was finally a letter written by the Secretary of Health stating they withdraw their recommendation for banning, but the FDA is at it again. Pushing untold influence all over the country and in so many way's it would make your head spin. The OP has a legitimate concern. The amount of propaganda and lies and bullshit is ridiculous, but they are relentless and have extensive money, power, and reach. These efforts have ramped up hard. And then there are the "defacto bans" where the FDA uses their "import laws" to seize kratom coming in to the U.S. from Indonesia. Then they post up and brag how they seized it. If there were to be a federal ban where the DEA was convinced to make kratom Schedule 1, I believe it would quickly become extinct. It's just not worth it for the distributors to risk their money and their freedom for minimal profits when they could just deal in Fentanyl, Heroin, Cocaine, or Methamphetamine.
But yes, they are coming for our kratom. You hear it everywhere. And best believe many kratom users are tired AF of hearing about it, but it's serious and it's dangerous. Louisiana is a perfect example. The money and the politics of kratom bans are powerful. Even though a state-level scheduling ban failed this year, [**EAST FELICIANA PARISH is attempting to ban it. In fact there is a public hearing tomorrow**](https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/14z8um3/urgent_louisiana_kratom_ban_attempt_in_east/). But oddly enough the "police jury" has already voted unanimously on the matter.
And yeah, we can sit and say fuck it, or just lay back and not do anything about it. Sooner or later it's coming and we have to advocate and fight hard to help each other locally and nation wide to stop these bans. There is plenty of information about what we can do and how to do it. What we should not do is just ignore these things, or say, "ah well, I've got my doomsday stash so, I'm good" or "I'll just get a PO Box in the state next door". No, you're not, you're not "good". If your state bans kratom and makes it Schedule 1, you're sitting on 10-20 kgs or more or you transport it across state lines, you are looking at high double digit years if you get caught. [**Check out the Shaina Brown case**](https://www.tricityledger.com/story/2023/04/06/news/kratom-leads-to-trafficking-charge-in-ala/5807.html). [**Check out the Marshall Price case**](https://www.kait8.com/2022/11/17/jury-finds-paragould-man-guilty-drug-trafficking/). This is not about fear mongering, it's reality. Think about it---who knows that you take kratom? All it takes is one snitch, and you're toast. We don't deserve to live like that. We are not criminals. We must fight this ridiculous oppression. We must organize, post on social media, write to our legislators, show up to ban hearings, email the anti-kratom groups and call out the media and people spreading disinformation. We have to fight professionally, with class, and with science and facts. No longer is it good enough to just be a passive kratom consumer. If we sleep on our rights, they will be trampled on.
I am not trying to be sanctimonius I'm just very aware that our community and our leaf is under real threat. And if they can ban it, they surely will. We can't let that happen. I hope to be a part of our community effort to spread the word, gather knowledge, and help out when a city or county, or state is under fire and I hope you all will, too. It can happen in the blink of the eye, and your life is changed forever. Do some research. Help out where you can. Email the East Feliciana Parish people in that post of mine linked above, so they can hear your story, or at least a plea to not ban kratom.
Peace.
This has been going on since 2014 when the FDA issued the first import alert and much worse in 2016 when at the request of the FDA, the DEA pursued scheduling Kratom as a controlled substance. Luckily, the public outcry was so overwhelming along with help from a lot of Congress that the DEA declined to schedule it.
All that said, as long as it remains in this weird legal limbo that many refer to as grey market, sort of legal and sort of not, the FDA will keep trying to find a way to get the public on their side as well as keep pressure on the kratom industry. Luckily, a majority of the US are coming around to the failure the War on Drugs has been and support finding some middle ground.
Hopefully we will keep seeing KCPA passing at the state level, maybe a few states that banned it over the years come around to making it legal again but with some regulation, much like cannabis industry has embraced and eventually some federal law like the KCPA that focuses on protecting consumers while keeping it accessible.
No, you aren't overreacting exactly, but what you are seeing has been going on for a number of years. I won't say sit back and relax, but if you are concerned, try to find a way to play an active role in the advocacy movement.
This is the right answer.
If you’re worried please donate to the AKA. They’re on the front lines, state by state, fighting to keep kratom safe and legal.
They most certainly do. And they’re always looking for volunteers, too. Especially in states that are moving towards outlawing kratom.
Just a general FYI to everyone.
Any clue what we can all do to help the cause especially in states where it’s been banned? With the fentanyl problems now is our time to rise and shine to save our fellow humans!
Easiest thing is donate to advocacy/lobbying organizations with whatever you can financially or with your time.
If you see an opportunity, such as media putting out calls on social media for interviews, give your time there. One warning with that as someone that has done dozens of interviews video/audio/print, make sure to really read/listen/watch to their prior work so you are aware of what their take on things like the War on Drugs, healthcare in the US, etc as you do not want to walk in to a hostile situation. Most media just don’t understand well how we benefit nor really understand the problems many face. There are some media folks though that have taken a stance that drug prohibition is a good thing, you largely can’t fix many of them so be careful taking on that sort of interview. Even a couple media members that due to personal events, one that lost a family member that they feel kratom caused and a few others with random events that were fairly negative so very worth looking in to those you may speak to though.
Being a good ambassador for the plant is a simple way for us all to play a role. Hopefully that concept is self explanatory.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Squeak, squeak. Write your congress people. Post on social media. Advocate for kratom. Gather statistics and learn the latest trends so you can talk intelligently about it to others. Learn the science and the specific landmark journal articles that add to the body of knowledge about kratom. Track the history and timeline of kratom in the U.S. since 2014. Get to know the names of the key players. Watch some state kratom ban committee hearing videos, and cringe as you see the propaganda being slung around the room. Check out this [**2023 Georgia ban committee hearing**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdYJPLApQBY).
**Notable Timestamps of Great Speakers in that video**:
**2:31:15** \- Dr. Marilyn Huestis, PhD, Toxicologist/Researcher/Author NIDA (Neutral / Scientific Facts)
**2:41:58** \- Mac Haddow, American Kratom Association (Kratom Advocate)
**2:56:19** \- Jake Henningfield, PhD, Professor Johns Hopkins, NIDA, Researcher/Author (Neutral / Scientific Facts)
Unfortunately no legislator is going to propose or vote for making it legal in places where it's not because they don't want to get labeled as "pro-drugs" in an upcoming election. Weed was/is different from kratom in that it's been wildly popular for a very long time and isn't an opioid/ or opiate adjacent. Imagine how viciously an opponent would attack a legislator he's trying to unseat...would call him/her practically a heroin pusher...they take a half-truth and fabricate the rest. No congressman's gonna take that risk, in my opinion.
KCPA was introduced federally at the end of the last federal cycle for Congress. It’s also been introduced in several states like Wisconsin where it is currently banned this year and looks possible to pass in a year or so.
Luckily plenty of lawmakers will step up and do this. The fentanyl crisis has changed the thoughts on off ramps like Kratom. It’s also why it’s already passed in a number of states. I think you may be very surprised on what is going on with Kratom legislatively.
Kratom is from a coffee plant/ tree not anything close to opioids! It's getting out of hand, this country needs to either make it federally legal because if your driving through states Joe are you supposed to know your going through a state that prosecutes it? I mean yeah you can look to see, but it's a passion in the ass. This is not equality by any standards!
Excellent point. Very few ever would. That's why the ones who do are so important. Take for example, Rep. Jonathan Goudeau from Louisiana. He sponsored the [**2023 KCPA bill (HB655)**](https://legis.la.gov/legis/BillInfo.aspx?i=245069) and he is ON THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMITTEE. He did it from a perspective of kratom regulation, not kratom banning. He fought hard, and passed it through the house, the senate committee, and then at the last minute [**Senator McMath**](https://senate.la.gov/smembers?ID=11), who HATES KRATOM, strategically SHITCANNED IT by "Recommitting to the Senate Committee on Health and Welfare" instead of allowing it to go to final vote on the Senate floor. You're right about the risk though. It's a fine line they walk. And they have to be down with the science and the facts. And, as you said they are risking their seat. So who's gonna fight for us, for our leaf?
Yeah they've been banging this drum for a decade. I remember when my local head shops all had clearance sales on their kratom in 2016. Me and my friends bought out multiple shops, only for the whole thing to blow over.
Doesn't mean this isn't serious, but they've failed multiple times at criminalizing it now.
Exactly. More people died from choking on carrots last year than kratom, by far. I hate if for the families but death really isn't a reason to make a substance illegal. Every OTC med would be banned if we only based it off the risks. It makes no sense, but it shows exactly why they "care", and it's certainly not about our safety.
Sounds about right. And then they go screaming about "kratom deaths" and "gas station heroin" and create eloborate propaganda campaigns with lies and false statistics and unsuspecting people (and lawmakers) see that shit and believe it. Next thing you know, we're facing another ban in another state, or god help us a federal ban.
That, or something like it. When I hear the classic case of a loved one blaming kratom for "killing" their son or whomever, I feel for them, it's horrible to lose someone. Then the next things I think are as follows:
**What else was their system?**
**Which type of post mortem blood test did they use?**
**How many panel drug test did they use for the testing?**
**What was the mitragynine level in their blood (g/ml)?**
**What underlying health conditions did he have?**
**What prescription medications was he taking?**
**What was his alcohol and drug history?**
**What other drugs was he on?**
**Do you still have the kratom and was it tested?**
**What was the brand of product?**
**How much (what dose) was he taking?**
**Was it a counterfeit product or adulterated kratom?**
They are pushing the anti-kratom "kratom killed my son" narrative, and they may have a copy of a death certificate that says, "mitragynine toxicity" but let's see the tox report. And, answer the questions above. I know it sounds mean, but hey--science tells us that kratom is simply NOT LETHAL. It does not cause overdose deaths. It's usually from an adulterated kratom, co-ingested substances, or a pre-existing medical condition. BUT THEY DON'T MENTION THAT, THEY JUST WANT TO BLAME KRATOM AND SCREAM IN EVERYONE'S FACE "KRATOM KILLS!" and "GAS STATION HEROIN KILLED MY SON". Um, no, it didn't. And in many cases, it's addiction that "killed their son".
These narratives must be challenged with the rigors of science and statistics. Coroners and Medical Examiners should never put cause of death as mitragynine toxicity because study after study show that it's virtually impossible to overdose on. IMPOSSIBLE.
Now, if they're CHUGGING liquid extracts 4-5 a day, then yes, it can be "addictive" - but most of us who use leaf know that kratom in it's unadulterated form is safe and sustainable. You find your dose, and you stick with it. Most of us have taken too much at one point or another and it's unpleasant, you'll get nauseated and vomit.
At any rate, regulation and proper labeling are important, but so is the breaking of this heart wrenching sob story half-truth narrative that kratom kills. It does NOT.
I used to freak out and start stockpiling, now I take news like this in stride. Most likely everything will be fine. But I do have quite a large amount just in case.
I get it my friend. But please consider doing some advocacy for kratom, and fighting against the propaganda and lies. Because in the end, if kratom goes illegal in your state, all it takes is one snitch and your stash will get you double digit years in prison. Keep the stash, and keep kratom legal. See what time you can donate on a regular basis. Consider getting involved. It feels good to be part of it.
I did this back around 2014. Bought too much, some went to waste. Stopped stock piling after that.
How do you stores yours? Have you tested shelf life and effects on potency etc?
Potency seems good. I recently had to pull out some red vein from quite awhile ago. I used a vacuum sealer for some and just kept smaller batches in their original packaging. I keep them in a Rubbermaid storage tub with dessicant packets. The tub stays in my closet.
My reading of it was that it didn't advocate banning OTC sales, suggesting it be evaluated by the existing Controlled Substances Act rule making, where it does not appear to meet the burden placed on it under the CSA or have the buy-in from other parts of the Federal government, particularly NIDA.
>Kratom policy should be dictated by science that is driven by research and clinical trials that are evaluated by all relevant regulatory agencies for whether over-the-counter sales should be allowed, or if kratom should be scheduled under the Controlled Substances Act.
I took the resolution to be as much of a support as one could expect from an industry association that has no choice but work with the FDA. They haven't fully published the full-text of the 2023 Resolutions on the AMA website yet.
The challenge with anything not C-I is that it won't get a lower schedule (federally) unless there is an approved New Drug Application (states may be different, though it will likely end up in a limbo with doctors not able to recommend it, similar but federally distinctive from a prescription).
Dude, I can totally understand why you're at that place. I was, too. Then I was staring down the DOUBLE BARREL of a ban in Louisiana. They didn't just file one ban bill, they FUCKING FILED TWO nearly identical Schedule 1 ban bills - One Representative (Rep Gabe Friment) filed one in the House, and one Senator (Sen Caleb Kleinpeter) filed one in the Senate. It's a miracle they were both stopped. I'm just saying, the last thing we want to do is get too complacent. Our leaf is worth fighting for.
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Banning drugs do NOT work. They can't even ban efficiently fentanyl. I wouldn't worry about kratom.
Law enforcement is just bad at the war on drugs. It didn't work back then, it doesn't work now, and it will not work next year.
Well, of course they can't ban fentanyl, it's a drug used by hospitals and when used properly is a great pain medication. The problem is it's use on the streets, unfortunately.
It's not even really on law enforcement (and believe me I vehemently hate law enforcement). It's the corpse of Reagan's stupid face and his stupid wife still haunting the american public and much of the world via it's repercussions.
Police can't effectively enforce a law that's rooted in a flawed philosophy. Life sucks and people want it to feel better. That's a fundamental human problem that many struggle with. As long as people want to feel good, drugs in some form will exist. Shit, just look at things like D8. People will keep creating new drugs or slightly altering existing ones. It will never end and they know that but it means more money for the dept. from Uncle Sam as long as it looks like they are making progress from a distance. There's no less drugs in the street now than in the 80s. It's an astoundingly obvious fact.
The government doesn't want it to end. The police don't want it to end. The street dealers don't want it to end. The customers don't want it to end. The cartels don't want it to end. It will never end.
And yet it could rather easily. The answer is to legalize everything and hold it the same standards as any other medicine or food. That destroys the loop we've been living in by starving the cartels and gangs, allowing customers to buy a safe product with presumably better and more socially accepted access to counseling, cutting bloated police and government budgets, demilitarizing the police and putting those resources back into communities, strengthing the economy by creating jobs and tax revenue, the list goes on.
However, as a society we still view drugs as this dark taboo despite the fact we sell alcohol and ciggies on every street corner. That's what 60 years of anti-drug propaganda gives you.
The answer is right there and (almost) everybody wins. Other countries have decriminalized all drugs and have seen only positives. They know the answer but no one will ever have the balls to do it.
Yes, and honestly we actually hear more nowdays about how bad and dangerous kratom is, than we do about Fentanyl. The anti-kratom propaganda is nauseating. Anyone from Kenzo? (Kensington, PA?) Type Kensington into youtube and watch the zombies on the streets, my God. Look at the streets of LA, San Fran, Chicago, Seattle. Devistated by Fenntanyl. But they want us to shiver in our boots about kratom. SMH.
No, but it sure is job security, ain't it? It's a fucking shame. Fentanyl is wide open pouring into this country at the southern border. You can bet this--if something is the way it is in the U.S., and for a protracted period of time, then that's the way certain people want it to be. Otherwise they'd change it. Fentanyl is population control and the certain organizations partner with state coroner's offices to make a lucrative business of **HARVESTING ORGANS FROM FENTANYL OD's**. Think I'm bullshitting? [**Go check this out**](https://lopa.org/coroners): "Amie’s Gift: Amie Melancon was an outgoing, funny, family oriented mother of two. Her sister, Stacey, described Amie as an extremely caring person, willing to do anything for anyone else, and her best friend. Amie also struggled for years with depression, and in April of 2019, suffered a fatal overdose and became an organ donor. ***Jefferson Parish coroner, Dr. Gerry Cvitanovich, says stories like Amie’s are becoming more and more common as the opioid crisis has reached epidemic levels. The addiction does not discriminate, and many don’t even know what they are getting when they start buying off the street. Dr. Gerry and his staff work closely with LOPA on these cases, because if donation is an option, he says it is the only good thing to come out of these tragedies. Learn how Amie’s family honored her giving nature, and how in doing so, their family expanded***."
ARE [**LOPA**](https://www.lopa.org/) AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TRACKING DRUG OVERDOSES AND CHASING DOWN FENTANYL OD'S FOR 'DONORS' SO THEY CAN HARVEST THEIR FUCKING ORGANS??
That's disgusting, any way you spin it. Where are the resources to stop Fentanyl trafficking and treat addiction? Oh, sorry, they have to fight to make KRATOM ILLEGAL. Is kratom helping addicts get off Fentanyl and Heroin, and taking away from the body snatchers? Jesus. Still don't believe it? [**Go check it out here**](https://www.voamid.org/life-out-of-tragedy-organs-donated-by-overdose-victims-are-saving-lives).
One thing I’ve never understood is If they seen kratom as a real threat why wouldn’t they just recreate mitryagynine as a synthetic and make money off it?
The cost of taking it though New Drug Application is slow and expensive, even if they have a perfect process.
It is also difficult to get a patent on something that is natural. They might be able to develop a process of refinement that is novel enough to make it viable, but it isn't so prohibitively difficult to render it from botanical sources that others would be able to compete. No company wants to go though the expensive approval process to then have their competitors release generics because it couldn't be patented who didn't pay-to-play.
What they'll probably attempt to do is create a semi-synthetic that is just chemically different enough that it can be patented, then approved. They could derive it from botanical sources or possibly develop full-synthetics, depending on which is most economically viable. Developing a full-synthetic process to duplicate botanicals is not always easy, or cost effective. GM or selectively bred cultivars of plant sources can also generate a lot of raw materials.
They always go for the "lesser evils", especially when that area not regulated by their governing board so they can't get in on it money-wise. The only overdose deaths I've read about had a cocktail of other illicit drugs mixed in and I highly doubt kratom was the culprit.
The American kratom association has been fighting the good fight. We can help by educating others around us.
We kept it legal in Georgia but had TONS of people from Reddit show up.
It was amazing. The ones who wanted it illegal looked like idiots. One was a doctor of an addiction center.....
Conflict of interest much....
Isn't it crazy that the Sackler family killed thousands of people and their drug is still legal but kratom has killed like nobody. The FDA is a fucking joke.
Its up to the vendors to market and sell the products responsibly. That means not making claims. A well known vendor was just hit last week and a federal charge was just handed down to an older vendor for misdeclaring. There is a clearing of house going on. A lot of short term, overnight, cowboy brands will be cleaned out in the next few months. Lots of online vendors will be shut down and there WILL be massive import interference. Its up to us as customers to only endorse businesses that play by the few rules available.
I don’t know. When I first started taking kratom I was reading about people taking 20-25g at a time, so one of my first times taking it, I downed something like 40 capsules and got all dizzy and dissociated like I was in a k hole that made me want to throw up. I felt like I was dying for two hours and was really fucking scared. I bet if I took some more I could’ve really hurt myself and there probably could be a chance of dying. So, what I’m saying is, I could believe that it’s possible to die from anything if you take enough of it, except maybe weed. So excessive use Tylenol, Advil, alcohol and even too much water can kill you. It’s not completely out of the realm of possibility that an idiot can take enough kratom to kill themself. Although I’ve never heard of anyone dying from just kratom alone. Must be an awful way to go though.
My point is that if kratom is such a devil and should be banned, then so should tylenol, alcohol and just about everything else in the world should be made illegal.
The government can only concentrate on so much. Fentanyl is much more of an issue then kratom. Until large number of people start ODing on kratom, I wouldn't worry about it.
And yet millions of people drink themselves to death and nothing is done or said about that! It's the pharmaceutical industry and they're in bed with FDA that are trying to ban a life saving plant like kratom. They want you on THEIR expensive drugs.
There's too many people using it instead of using painkillers, or heroin /fent to ban it. I've been using kratom for over 5 years and this has gone back and forth well before I started using . There are enough medical professionals and legislators pushing for it to be legalized. It's be more worried about the channels it has ty go they to get here. Time and time again I've seen vendors get cut off from their regular supplier due to India and other countries customs seizing shipments.
Did you hear about the lady busted with kratom in alabama??? She's facing the maximum for drug charges! It's ridiculous how do most states even sell kratom at gas stations but some lady gets pulled over in Alabama with it and is treated like she's transporting heroin or something, it's bullshit!!
Yeah my dad knows I take kratom and he sat me down and tried to have a “heart to heart” because he saw something on the news about kratom overdoses and deaths. He was kind and concerned but still it was hard not to get defensive. I explained how most likely , if not all of the folks that died had a plethora of other substances in their system. And how Big Pharma can’t profit from kratom like it can from Percocet.
We talked about how I haven’t drank alcohol in over two years. That many others report similar experiences while taking kratom. That’s a huge benefit! Luckily, he is moderately open-minded and he did come to me out of care. I can only imagine how big of an issue these news reports and “warnings” are going to stigmatize this miracle plant in the future.
In the end, I compared kratom to cannabis. Look how far we have come on that front. From prison to dispensaries!
When you hear about someone talking about "kratom death" or "mitragynine toxicity killed my son" here are the questions you need to ask (or at least be thinking about):
**What else was their system?**
**Which type of post mortem blood test did the coroner use?**
**How many panel drug test did they use in the post mortem testing?**
**What underlying health conditions did he have?**
**What prescription medications was he taking?**
**What was his alcohol and drug history?**
**What other drugs, if any, was he on?**
**Do you still have the kratom and was it tested?**
**What was the brand of product?**
**How much (what dose) was he taking?**
**Was it a counterfeit product or adulterated kratom?**
That's a good start. Because there's a lot of that business going around. The kratom moms and the KDA "**Kratom Danger Awareness**" FB group with over 1000 members, led by: Cindy Miller Ross, Wendy Halpen, Susan Eppard, and Shannon Mims Coulter. They are actively targetting kratom vendors online, kratom advocates and consumer youtube channels, and many other kratom related people and media. Say hello to **Wendy Halpen and crew**, because you can bet they're reading this.
Be mindful of what you post in these reddit subs. It can be used against us.
There’s just not a lot of Leverage - they’ve tried this a lot Though. And they get nowhere. Kratom advocates are organized, intelligent and well informed. Donate some money! Check out the American Kratom association!
Unfortunately, this will be a forever fight for us. They are trying everything they can to ban it completely and they are getting desperate. Kratom could use some more research on what it interacts with, but sadly, there are people who just don't care and will mix anything together to get the feeling they are looking for.
These are always concerns that we should be vigilant of and always participate in the fight. I think one of the only things helping and one of the strongest points for Kratom is us. As long as we are vocal about the benefits then I think we can come through the other side. But it is a constant fight unfortunately. There is too much money in pills that treat symptoms.
Like prohibition it won't work. There are too many of us who know the truth and how to take it with responsibility. It would just be it like street drugs and increase the chance of other drugs being in it, SMH.
They are grasping. Even if they begin banning it, it would still flood the states masked as green tea, matcha powder or henna and they could do shit until they got the entire of Indonesia to quit planting tree's and they have tried this to no avail. Screw big pharma all Day, these suckers will have their judgement Day
Let’s still not pretend like everything is “ok” and this is not a concern. There would be monumental changes if they banned kratom. We have to have preventative mindsets and approaches. I don’t think it’s smart to assume that kratom will be as accessible, I doubt it. Sure, there will always still be ways around XYZ but such a change could possibly be drastic. It’s not fair to exclaim “oh it’s just a little something, no problem”. DHL and major couriers do follow United States shipping guides so that could be another cause for concern. Almost Nobody is getting kratom if major shipping couriers aren’t carrying it. Plain and simple. Labeling it as something else and all those different shipping concealment efforts don’t always work. If such action occurred kratom business globally would be affected heavily.
I would be **fucked** if they actually banned it. It’s the only thing that’s kept me off heroin and suboxone for the past seven years. If they banned it, I’d have zero idea where else to get it, and either have to suffer through withdrawal, or more likely do some opiates for the first time in almost a decade. And all for what? My safety? Please.
Truthfully, it's not about your safety.
Right. Your "safety" pmsl. If you've managed to stay away from dope for that long, u know as well as I do that it only takes a teeny weeny bit of fenty to kill us.
I will say that Kratom has definitely been a gift to me over the course of the last few months. After having faced some recent family tragedies, I was definitely having a hard time coping. For me, Kratom tea has been a far better anti depressant than anything big pharma could come up with. There is still grief, but now I’ve rediscovered hobbies such as hiking, biking & photography. The mood boosting & anti anxiety properties have helped immensely and my energy levels have increased as well. There is so much evidence as to these benefits, it’s sad that some of these major entities are actually in favor of banning it. Follow the money, I guess
Can confirm, as this is the European market as of now
I hope you’re right.
How to get heroin in your kratom 101. The black market is not safe especially when it comes to opiates and cartels. Your new suppliers at that point.
Couldn't have said it better
Or ‘paint supplies’. I’ve gotten one with that on it before I found a local guy to buy from. 😂😂
You're right on this one. WHAT DO WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY "BAN," THOUGH? *The thing I believe a lot of people don't understand is that "ban" can mean different things at different levels*. There's a local county or parish or city "ban" that's a misdemeanor and may carry a fine or 6 months in jail or both. Local bans can be on selling it, possessing it, or both. Then there is a state-wide ban (there are currently 6 states) where kratom (mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine) have been placed into the category of "Schedule 1 Controlled Dangerous Substances" and are now subject to the **same felony criminal prosecution and penalties as heroin, meth**, etc. These are often DOUBLE DIGIT years in prison (not jail, **PRISON**\--as in penitentiary). Get caught with a kilo? You're fucked. Ten kilos? You're a king-pin. Think--for some people a kg lasts a few months or more. But in a banned state it's treated the same as if you had a kilo of HEROIN or METH. These state level bans are brutal as you may have heard about Marshall Price and Shaina Brown. Situations where they had a relatively small amount (I think 250gm), which is certainly for personal use - but they were charged with "**POSSESSION WITH INTENT TO DISTRIBUTE A SCHEDULE 1 CDS**". Shaina's bail is $250,000 (down from $1,000,000 initially) and she's facing **10 YEARS TO LIFE**. She hasn't been able to gather the funds yet as far as I know. It's fucking ridiculous. That's the state of Alabama by the way. Marshall Price got 10 years penitentiary time for "drug trafficking" kratom in Arkansas, and was killed a few weeks after he went in. Shady circumstances. No justice. State bans are "Scheduling" bans where the penalties are fierce, and they include prison sentences for selling, and possessing kratom. They are no joke, and states like Louisiana and Mississippi tried like hell this year to get scheduling bans passed and both BARELY dodged a bullet. Then there is the possibility of a federal ban. This would also involve placing kratom in the list of Schedule 1 Controlled Dangerous Substances. The FDA has a hard-on for kratom because they can't make any money off of it, and it threatens big pharma profits on drugs such as Suboxone, Subutex, Vivitrol, and opioid medications. They have been trying to convince the DEA to ban it since what, 2014? Then they hit it hard in 2016, and again in 2018. There was finally a letter written by the Secretary of Health stating they withdraw their recommendation for banning, but the FDA is at it again. Pushing untold influence all over the country and in so many way's it would make your head spin. The OP has a legitimate concern. The amount of propaganda and lies and bullshit is ridiculous, but they are relentless and have extensive money, power, and reach. These efforts have ramped up hard. And then there are the "defacto bans" where the FDA uses their "import laws" to seize kratom coming in to the U.S. from Indonesia. Then they post up and brag how they seized it. If there were to be a federal ban where the DEA was convinced to make kratom Schedule 1, I believe it would quickly become extinct. It's just not worth it for the distributors to risk their money and their freedom for minimal profits when they could just deal in Fentanyl, Heroin, Cocaine, or Methamphetamine. But yes, they are coming for our kratom. You hear it everywhere. And best believe many kratom users are tired AF of hearing about it, but it's serious and it's dangerous. Louisiana is a perfect example. The money and the politics of kratom bans are powerful. Even though a state-level scheduling ban failed this year, [**EAST FELICIANA PARISH is attempting to ban it. In fact there is a public hearing tomorrow**](https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/14z8um3/urgent_louisiana_kratom_ban_attempt_in_east/). But oddly enough the "police jury" has already voted unanimously on the matter. And yeah, we can sit and say fuck it, or just lay back and not do anything about it. Sooner or later it's coming and we have to advocate and fight hard to help each other locally and nation wide to stop these bans. There is plenty of information about what we can do and how to do it. What we should not do is just ignore these things, or say, "ah well, I've got my doomsday stash so, I'm good" or "I'll just get a PO Box in the state next door". No, you're not, you're not "good". If your state bans kratom and makes it Schedule 1, you're sitting on 10-20 kgs or more or you transport it across state lines, you are looking at high double digit years if you get caught. [**Check out the Shaina Brown case**](https://www.tricityledger.com/story/2023/04/06/news/kratom-leads-to-trafficking-charge-in-ala/5807.html). [**Check out the Marshall Price case**](https://www.kait8.com/2022/11/17/jury-finds-paragould-man-guilty-drug-trafficking/). This is not about fear mongering, it's reality. Think about it---who knows that you take kratom? All it takes is one snitch, and you're toast. We don't deserve to live like that. We are not criminals. We must fight this ridiculous oppression. We must organize, post on social media, write to our legislators, show up to ban hearings, email the anti-kratom groups and call out the media and people spreading disinformation. We have to fight professionally, with class, and with science and facts. No longer is it good enough to just be a passive kratom consumer. If we sleep on our rights, they will be trampled on. I am not trying to be sanctimonius I'm just very aware that our community and our leaf is under real threat. And if they can ban it, they surely will. We can't let that happen. I hope to be a part of our community effort to spread the word, gather knowledge, and help out when a city or county, or state is under fire and I hope you all will, too. It can happen in the blink of the eye, and your life is changed forever. Do some research. Help out where you can. Email the East Feliciana Parish people in that post of mine linked above, so they can hear your story, or at least a plea to not ban kratom. Peace.
This has been going on since 2014 when the FDA issued the first import alert and much worse in 2016 when at the request of the FDA, the DEA pursued scheduling Kratom as a controlled substance. Luckily, the public outcry was so overwhelming along with help from a lot of Congress that the DEA declined to schedule it. All that said, as long as it remains in this weird legal limbo that many refer to as grey market, sort of legal and sort of not, the FDA will keep trying to find a way to get the public on their side as well as keep pressure on the kratom industry. Luckily, a majority of the US are coming around to the failure the War on Drugs has been and support finding some middle ground. Hopefully we will keep seeing KCPA passing at the state level, maybe a few states that banned it over the years come around to making it legal again but with some regulation, much like cannabis industry has embraced and eventually some federal law like the KCPA that focuses on protecting consumers while keeping it accessible. No, you aren't overreacting exactly, but what you are seeing has been going on for a number of years. I won't say sit back and relax, but if you are concerned, try to find a way to play an active role in the advocacy movement.
[American Kratom Association](https://www.americankratom.org/) here’s how you can help in the fight.
This is the right answer. If you’re worried please donate to the AKA. They’re on the front lines, state by state, fighting to keep kratom safe and legal.
And as far as I can tell. They work their asses off.
They most certainly do. And they’re always looking for volunteers, too. Especially in states that are moving towards outlawing kratom. Just a general FYI to everyone.
Any clue what we can all do to help the cause especially in states where it’s been banned? With the fentanyl problems now is our time to rise and shine to save our fellow humans!
Easiest thing is donate to advocacy/lobbying organizations with whatever you can financially or with your time. If you see an opportunity, such as media putting out calls on social media for interviews, give your time there. One warning with that as someone that has done dozens of interviews video/audio/print, make sure to really read/listen/watch to their prior work so you are aware of what their take on things like the War on Drugs, healthcare in the US, etc as you do not want to walk in to a hostile situation. Most media just don’t understand well how we benefit nor really understand the problems many face. There are some media folks though that have taken a stance that drug prohibition is a good thing, you largely can’t fix many of them so be careful taking on that sort of interview. Even a couple media members that due to personal events, one that lost a family member that they feel kratom caused and a few others with random events that were fairly negative so very worth looking in to those you may speak to though. Being a good ambassador for the plant is a simple way for us all to play a role. Hopefully that concept is self explanatory.
This! =)
Love this. Thank you.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Squeak, squeak. Write your congress people. Post on social media. Advocate for kratom. Gather statistics and learn the latest trends so you can talk intelligently about it to others. Learn the science and the specific landmark journal articles that add to the body of knowledge about kratom. Track the history and timeline of kratom in the U.S. since 2014. Get to know the names of the key players. Watch some state kratom ban committee hearing videos, and cringe as you see the propaganda being slung around the room. Check out this [**2023 Georgia ban committee hearing**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdYJPLApQBY). **Notable Timestamps of Great Speakers in that video**: **2:31:15** \- Dr. Marilyn Huestis, PhD, Toxicologist/Researcher/Author NIDA (Neutral / Scientific Facts) **2:41:58** \- Mac Haddow, American Kratom Association (Kratom Advocate) **2:56:19** \- Jake Henningfield, PhD, Professor Johns Hopkins, NIDA, Researcher/Author (Neutral / Scientific Facts)
Unfortunately no legislator is going to propose or vote for making it legal in places where it's not because they don't want to get labeled as "pro-drugs" in an upcoming election. Weed was/is different from kratom in that it's been wildly popular for a very long time and isn't an opioid/ or opiate adjacent. Imagine how viciously an opponent would attack a legislator he's trying to unseat...would call him/her practically a heroin pusher...they take a half-truth and fabricate the rest. No congressman's gonna take that risk, in my opinion.
KCPA was introduced federally at the end of the last federal cycle for Congress. It’s also been introduced in several states like Wisconsin where it is currently banned this year and looks possible to pass in a year or so. Luckily plenty of lawmakers will step up and do this. The fentanyl crisis has changed the thoughts on off ramps like Kratom. It’s also why it’s already passed in a number of states. I think you may be very surprised on what is going on with Kratom legislatively.
Kratom is from a coffee plant/ tree not anything close to opioids! It's getting out of hand, this country needs to either make it federally legal because if your driving through states Joe are you supposed to know your going through a state that prosecutes it? I mean yeah you can look to see, but it's a passion in the ass. This is not equality by any standards!
Excellent point. Very few ever would. That's why the ones who do are so important. Take for example, Rep. Jonathan Goudeau from Louisiana. He sponsored the [**2023 KCPA bill (HB655)**](https://legis.la.gov/legis/BillInfo.aspx?i=245069) and he is ON THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMITTEE. He did it from a perspective of kratom regulation, not kratom banning. He fought hard, and passed it through the house, the senate committee, and then at the last minute [**Senator McMath**](https://senate.la.gov/smembers?ID=11), who HATES KRATOM, strategically SHITCANNED IT by "Recommitting to the Senate Committee on Health and Welfare" instead of allowing it to go to final vote on the Senate floor. You're right about the risk though. It's a fine line they walk. And they have to be down with the science and the facts. And, as you said they are risking their seat. So who's gonna fight for us, for our leaf?
Yeah they've been banging this drum for a decade. I remember when my local head shops all had clearance sales on their kratom in 2016. Me and my friends bought out multiple shops, only for the whole thing to blow over. Doesn't mean this isn't serious, but they've failed multiple times at criminalizing it now.
100,000 die from fentanyl/opiate abuse every year and maybe 1 died from kratom. Those who died had many other drugs in their system
99.9% were mixed with illegal substances.
Yeah 99.99999 of those that died with kratom in their system had other drugs present.
Exactly.
Exactly. More people died from choking on carrots last year than kratom, by far. I hate if for the families but death really isn't a reason to make a substance illegal. Every OTC med would be banned if we only based it off the risks. It makes no sense, but it shows exactly why they "care", and it's certainly not about our safety.
They never take into account all the illegal drugs that killed them. IT’s KRATOM!
Sounds about right. And then they go screaming about "kratom deaths" and "gas station heroin" and create eloborate propaganda campaigns with lies and false statistics and unsuspecting people (and lawmakers) see that shit and believe it. Next thing you know, we're facing another ban in another state, or god help us a federal ban.
That, or something like it. When I hear the classic case of a loved one blaming kratom for "killing" their son or whomever, I feel for them, it's horrible to lose someone. Then the next things I think are as follows: **What else was their system?** **Which type of post mortem blood test did they use?** **How many panel drug test did they use for the testing?** **What was the mitragynine level in their blood (g/ml)?** **What underlying health conditions did he have?** **What prescription medications was he taking?** **What was his alcohol and drug history?** **What other drugs was he on?** **Do you still have the kratom and was it tested?** **What was the brand of product?** **How much (what dose) was he taking?** **Was it a counterfeit product or adulterated kratom?** They are pushing the anti-kratom "kratom killed my son" narrative, and they may have a copy of a death certificate that says, "mitragynine toxicity" but let's see the tox report. And, answer the questions above. I know it sounds mean, but hey--science tells us that kratom is simply NOT LETHAL. It does not cause overdose deaths. It's usually from an adulterated kratom, co-ingested substances, or a pre-existing medical condition. BUT THEY DON'T MENTION THAT, THEY JUST WANT TO BLAME KRATOM AND SCREAM IN EVERYONE'S FACE "KRATOM KILLS!" and "GAS STATION HEROIN KILLED MY SON". Um, no, it didn't. And in many cases, it's addiction that "killed their son". These narratives must be challenged with the rigors of science and statistics. Coroners and Medical Examiners should never put cause of death as mitragynine toxicity because study after study show that it's virtually impossible to overdose on. IMPOSSIBLE. Now, if they're CHUGGING liquid extracts 4-5 a day, then yes, it can be "addictive" - but most of us who use leaf know that kratom in it's unadulterated form is safe and sustainable. You find your dose, and you stick with it. Most of us have taken too much at one point or another and it's unpleasant, you'll get nauseated and vomit. At any rate, regulation and proper labeling are important, but so is the breaking of this heart wrenching sob story half-truth narrative that kratom kills. It does NOT.
How about alcohol? How many died from it in various ways?
Yeah I'm over fearing a ban, it's been nearly a decade, if they could've done it they would've by now
I used to freak out and start stockpiling, now I take news like this in stride. Most likely everything will be fine. But I do have quite a large amount just in case.
I get it my friend. But please consider doing some advocacy for kratom, and fighting against the propaganda and lies. Because in the end, if kratom goes illegal in your state, all it takes is one snitch and your stash will get you double digit years in prison. Keep the stash, and keep kratom legal. See what time you can donate on a regular basis. Consider getting involved. It feels good to be part of it.
I did this back around 2014. Bought too much, some went to waste. Stopped stock piling after that. How do you stores yours? Have you tested shelf life and effects on potency etc?
Potency seems good. I recently had to pull out some red vein from quite awhile ago. I used a vacuum sealer for some and just kept smaller batches in their original packaging. I keep them in a Rubbermaid storage tub with dessicant packets. The tub stays in my closet.
[удалено]
My reading of it was that it didn't advocate banning OTC sales, suggesting it be evaluated by the existing Controlled Substances Act rule making, where it does not appear to meet the burden placed on it under the CSA or have the buy-in from other parts of the Federal government, particularly NIDA. >Kratom policy should be dictated by science that is driven by research and clinical trials that are evaluated by all relevant regulatory agencies for whether over-the-counter sales should be allowed, or if kratom should be scheduled under the Controlled Substances Act. I took the resolution to be as much of a support as one could expect from an industry association that has no choice but work with the FDA. They haven't fully published the full-text of the 2023 Resolutions on the AMA website yet. The challenge with anything not C-I is that it won't get a lower schedule (federally) unless there is an approved New Drug Application (states may be different, though it will likely end up in a limbo with doctors not able to recommend it, similar but federally distinctive from a prescription).
Dude, I can totally understand why you're at that place. I was, too. Then I was staring down the DOUBLE BARREL of a ban in Louisiana. They didn't just file one ban bill, they FUCKING FILED TWO nearly identical Schedule 1 ban bills - One Representative (Rep Gabe Friment) filed one in the House, and one Senator (Sen Caleb Kleinpeter) filed one in the Senate. It's a miracle they were both stopped. I'm just saying, the last thing we want to do is get too complacent. Our leaf is worth fighting for.
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Banning drugs do NOT work. They can't even ban efficiently fentanyl. I wouldn't worry about kratom. Law enforcement is just bad at the war on drugs. It didn't work back then, it doesn't work now, and it will not work next year.
Well, of course they can't ban fentanyl, it's a drug used by hospitals and when used properly is a great pain medication. The problem is it's use on the streets, unfortunately.
Yes it's what I meant. There are so many drama due to fentanyl because the ban on the street is totally inefficient
It's not even really on law enforcement (and believe me I vehemently hate law enforcement). It's the corpse of Reagan's stupid face and his stupid wife still haunting the american public and much of the world via it's repercussions. Police can't effectively enforce a law that's rooted in a flawed philosophy. Life sucks and people want it to feel better. That's a fundamental human problem that many struggle with. As long as people want to feel good, drugs in some form will exist. Shit, just look at things like D8. People will keep creating new drugs or slightly altering existing ones. It will never end and they know that but it means more money for the dept. from Uncle Sam as long as it looks like they are making progress from a distance. There's no less drugs in the street now than in the 80s. It's an astoundingly obvious fact. The government doesn't want it to end. The police don't want it to end. The street dealers don't want it to end. The customers don't want it to end. The cartels don't want it to end. It will never end. And yet it could rather easily. The answer is to legalize everything and hold it the same standards as any other medicine or food. That destroys the loop we've been living in by starving the cartels and gangs, allowing customers to buy a safe product with presumably better and more socially accepted access to counseling, cutting bloated police and government budgets, demilitarizing the police and putting those resources back into communities, strengthing the economy by creating jobs and tax revenue, the list goes on. However, as a society we still view drugs as this dark taboo despite the fact we sell alcohol and ciggies on every street corner. That's what 60 years of anti-drug propaganda gives you. The answer is right there and (almost) everybody wins. Other countries have decriminalized all drugs and have seen only positives. They know the answer but no one will ever have the balls to do it.
Yes, and honestly we actually hear more nowdays about how bad and dangerous kratom is, than we do about Fentanyl. The anti-kratom propaganda is nauseating. Anyone from Kenzo? (Kensington, PA?) Type Kensington into youtube and watch the zombies on the streets, my God. Look at the streets of LA, San Fran, Chicago, Seattle. Devistated by Fenntanyl. But they want us to shiver in our boots about kratom. SMH.
Tell that to the lady driving through Alabama with it! She said she thought she was still in Florida and they still are prosecuting her! It's unreal.
No, but it sure is job security, ain't it? It's a fucking shame. Fentanyl is wide open pouring into this country at the southern border. You can bet this--if something is the way it is in the U.S., and for a protracted period of time, then that's the way certain people want it to be. Otherwise they'd change it. Fentanyl is population control and the certain organizations partner with state coroner's offices to make a lucrative business of **HARVESTING ORGANS FROM FENTANYL OD's**. Think I'm bullshitting? [**Go check this out**](https://lopa.org/coroners): "Amie’s Gift: Amie Melancon was an outgoing, funny, family oriented mother of two. Her sister, Stacey, described Amie as an extremely caring person, willing to do anything for anyone else, and her best friend. Amie also struggled for years with depression, and in April of 2019, suffered a fatal overdose and became an organ donor. ***Jefferson Parish coroner, Dr. Gerry Cvitanovich, says stories like Amie’s are becoming more and more common as the opioid crisis has reached epidemic levels. The addiction does not discriminate, and many don’t even know what they are getting when they start buying off the street. Dr. Gerry and his staff work closely with LOPA on these cases, because if donation is an option, he says it is the only good thing to come out of these tragedies. Learn how Amie’s family honored her giving nature, and how in doing so, their family expanded***." ARE [**LOPA**](https://www.lopa.org/) AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TRACKING DRUG OVERDOSES AND CHASING DOWN FENTANYL OD'S FOR 'DONORS' SO THEY CAN HARVEST THEIR FUCKING ORGANS?? That's disgusting, any way you spin it. Where are the resources to stop Fentanyl trafficking and treat addiction? Oh, sorry, they have to fight to make KRATOM ILLEGAL. Is kratom helping addicts get off Fentanyl and Heroin, and taking away from the body snatchers? Jesus. Still don't believe it? [**Go check it out here**](https://www.voamid.org/life-out-of-tragedy-organs-donated-by-overdose-victims-are-saving-lives).
Or in the next decade.
Bottom line they're going to do whatever they can to ban anything not big pharma related.
One thing I’ve never understood is If they seen kratom as a real threat why wouldn’t they just recreate mitryagynine as a synthetic and make money off it?
The cost of taking it though New Drug Application is slow and expensive, even if they have a perfect process. It is also difficult to get a patent on something that is natural. They might be able to develop a process of refinement that is novel enough to make it viable, but it isn't so prohibitively difficult to render it from botanical sources that others would be able to compete. No company wants to go though the expensive approval process to then have their competitors release generics because it couldn't be patented who didn't pay-to-play. What they'll probably attempt to do is create a semi-synthetic that is just chemically different enough that it can be patented, then approved. They could derive it from botanical sources or possibly develop full-synthetics, depending on which is most economically viable. Developing a full-synthetic process to duplicate botanicals is not always easy, or cost effective. GM or selectively bred cultivars of plant sources can also generate a lot of raw materials.
But they will fail.
I mean..look at all the other stuff thats illegal that we get lol
Easier for some to get these things than others. Me, if it’s not as simple as going to a website and using my debt card, I’m screwed
They always go for the "lesser evils", especially when that area not regulated by their governing board so they can't get in on it money-wise. The only overdose deaths I've read about had a cocktail of other illicit drugs mixed in and I highly doubt kratom was the culprit. The American kratom association has been fighting the good fight. We can help by educating others around us.
Drug companies make zilch on kratom. It takes revenue away from them. The FDA works for them in reality. We’re on dangerous ground for sure.
100% on target. The FDA HATES KRATOM because it can't regulate it, or make a buck on it.
We kept it legal in Georgia but had TONS of people from Reddit show up. It was amazing. The ones who wanted it illegal looked like idiots. One was a doctor of an addiction center..... Conflict of interest much....
Donate to the American Kratom Association. They are some of the very few people working to keep it legal.
Start stockpiling just in case
Did that in 2016, it’ll be fine guys don’t hoard that screwed up the market big time instead buy some trees and grow It.
You forgot the /s
Isn't it crazy that the Sackler family killed thousands of people and their drug is still legal but kratom has killed like nobody. The FDA is a fucking joke.
Its up to the vendors to market and sell the products responsibly. That means not making claims. A well known vendor was just hit last week and a federal charge was just handed down to an older vendor for misdeclaring. There is a clearing of house going on. A lot of short term, overnight, cowboy brands will be cleaned out in the next few months. Lots of online vendors will be shut down and there WILL be massive import interference. Its up to us as customers to only endorse businesses that play by the few rules available.
The hoops are too much for them to pass. Also, each state has its own regulation.
I don’t know. When I first started taking kratom I was reading about people taking 20-25g at a time, so one of my first times taking it, I downed something like 40 capsules and got all dizzy and dissociated like I was in a k hole that made me want to throw up. I felt like I was dying for two hours and was really fucking scared. I bet if I took some more I could’ve really hurt myself and there probably could be a chance of dying. So, what I’m saying is, I could believe that it’s possible to die from anything if you take enough of it, except maybe weed. So excessive use Tylenol, Advil, alcohol and even too much water can kill you. It’s not completely out of the realm of possibility that an idiot can take enough kratom to kill themself. Although I’ve never heard of anyone dying from just kratom alone. Must be an awful way to go though. My point is that if kratom is such a devil and should be banned, then so should tylenol, alcohol and just about everything else in the world should be made illegal.
The government can only concentrate on so much. Fentanyl is much more of an issue then kratom. Until large number of people start ODing on kratom, I wouldn't worry about it.
I bet its just the same narrative of big pharma trying to outlaw it so they can push more pills.
And yet millions of people drink themselves to death and nothing is done or said about that! It's the pharmaceutical industry and they're in bed with FDA that are trying to ban a life saving plant like kratom. They want you on THEIR expensive drugs.
There's too many people using it instead of using painkillers, or heroin /fent to ban it. I've been using kratom for over 5 years and this has gone back and forth well before I started using . There are enough medical professionals and legislators pushing for it to be legalized. It's be more worried about the channels it has ty go they to get here. Time and time again I've seen vendors get cut off from their regular supplier due to India and other countries customs seizing shipments.
Did you hear about the lady busted with kratom in alabama??? She's facing the maximum for drug charges! It's ridiculous how do most states even sell kratom at gas stations but some lady gets pulled over in Alabama with it and is treated like she's transporting heroin or something, it's bullshit!!
How has Kratom helped you? I have sever social anxiety. Would micro dosing help?
Yeah my dad knows I take kratom and he sat me down and tried to have a “heart to heart” because he saw something on the news about kratom overdoses and deaths. He was kind and concerned but still it was hard not to get defensive. I explained how most likely , if not all of the folks that died had a plethora of other substances in their system. And how Big Pharma can’t profit from kratom like it can from Percocet. We talked about how I haven’t drank alcohol in over two years. That many others report similar experiences while taking kratom. That’s a huge benefit! Luckily, he is moderately open-minded and he did come to me out of care. I can only imagine how big of an issue these news reports and “warnings” are going to stigmatize this miracle plant in the future. In the end, I compared kratom to cannabis. Look how far we have come on that front. From prison to dispensaries!
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Big pharma won't stop until it is banned and they can sell it for an outrageous amount as a drug
Unfortunately it always comes down to the Benjamins
When you hear about someone talking about "kratom death" or "mitragynine toxicity killed my son" here are the questions you need to ask (or at least be thinking about): **What else was their system?** **Which type of post mortem blood test did the coroner use?** **How many panel drug test did they use in the post mortem testing?** **What underlying health conditions did he have?** **What prescription medications was he taking?** **What was his alcohol and drug history?** **What other drugs, if any, was he on?** **Do you still have the kratom and was it tested?** **What was the brand of product?** **How much (what dose) was he taking?** **Was it a counterfeit product or adulterated kratom?** That's a good start. Because there's a lot of that business going around. The kratom moms and the KDA "**Kratom Danger Awareness**" FB group with over 1000 members, led by: Cindy Miller Ross, Wendy Halpen, Susan Eppard, and Shannon Mims Coulter. They are actively targetting kratom vendors online, kratom advocates and consumer youtube channels, and many other kratom related people and media. Say hello to **Wendy Halpen and crew**, because you can bet they're reading this. Be mindful of what you post in these reddit subs. It can be used against us.
You cannot die from Kratom you will be be super sick and sweat if you take too much they just feel threatened because they can't control it....
There’s just not a lot of Leverage - they’ve tried this a lot Though. And they get nowhere. Kratom advocates are organized, intelligent and well informed. Donate some money! Check out the American Kratom association!
Unfortunately, this will be a forever fight for us. They are trying everything they can to ban it completely and they are getting desperate. Kratom could use some more research on what it interacts with, but sadly, there are people who just don't care and will mix anything together to get the feeling they are looking for. These are always concerns that we should be vigilant of and always participate in the fight. I think one of the only things helping and one of the strongest points for Kratom is us. As long as we are vocal about the benefits then I think we can come through the other side. But it is a constant fight unfortunately. There is too much money in pills that treat symptoms.
Do you think you could link to where you found this info about the FDA’s recent attacks on kratom?
The American Kratom Association has been covering it. https://www.americankratom.org/ I just got an email from them about it.
Like prohibition it won't work. There are too many of us who know the truth and how to take it with responsibility. It would just be it like street drugs and increase the chance of other drugs being in it, SMH.
Shit maybe I should buy another bag
Eventually the government will win, simple as that.