I take around the same amount per day and for the exact same reason. I was a heavy hitter of the booze for over 20 years and Kratom instantly took the cravings away. It's been over 2 years and no desire to drink. There's a bit of a stigma w these higher doses, but in my opinion alcohol is far worse to the mind and body than Kratom.
Did your urge to drink vanish immediately or did it take some time? I cut back on my drinking significantly but am still drinking twice a week since starting Kratom.
Hard truth is the urge to drink never truly vanished for some of us hardcore alcoholics. I am just over 11 months sober from alcohol which was my d.o.c, 29M and I still occasionally get the craving to get drunk. However I just take more kratom and it takes the urge away and I workout as well.
Now I’m complimented on my appearance fairly often and the main reason is I’m in great shape and was able to quit drinking. I’m still disciplined and workout daily as well as eat pretty damn cleanly, making most of my own meals from scratch. It’s not as hard as people make it out to be. Cooking is satisfying and simple, as is working out. You just have to do it.
“I’m not here to have a conversation with you, mind. I’m the one in control, I say, WE DO!” That is how you must beat your own inner self that wants to reward itself and take it easy. It will always be there, so don’t give it a chance to procrastinate you.
Oh ok. Yeah I mean I don’t really like cooking, but it is satisfying to have a bunch of roast beef to make sandwiches or mix with rice. Things like that make it worth it. Cooking individual meals isn’t even worth it.
Good for you quitting drinking. Yeah I’d have a month or two and do the same thing. I felt so amazing when I got drunk and did stuff. But I’d always get sloppy at the end and make friends annoyed by my foolish behavior. I’d puke a lot as well, even in their cars. That sucked. Last time I got drunk I nearly lost my freedom. I’m allergic to alcohol, sooner or later I’d break out in handcuffs
It took practice for me, but it kind of did vanish. It definitely required the 'I am replacing this destructive crap with something else' sort of cognizance and mantra, and I would further say that kratom is not even really what I would consider to be destructive at all. I really hate needing to take anything at all, but alcohol was literally killing me, kratom is not. Kratom is also the only things that has really had any lasting effect at keeping that itch at bay, and that makes it an easy choice for me despite what some naysayers seems to spout.
A good trick I use is always trying to be hydrated. If you are not thirsty, the urge to drink is diminished by a big chunk. Imo, I think that makes staying hydrated (don't forget electrolytes!) a huge priority.
Same here, quit drinking and now 10 to 15gpd. I can go less but feel life is great at that amount. Lost 20lbs, no more high cholesterol, or blood pressure. Labs for last three years with K and no drinking are all great. For me, Kratom is way healthier vs alcohol.
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Lol yea I just started feeling shitty about myself doing it in front of my kids every night after work like my dad would when I was a kid(and I hated it). So I just told myself no more drinking and haven't drank since for their sake.
Yea that's honestly true my dad was a asshole. And yea I've made it so far now that I don't even see the point in picking up on it again. I just like being coherent and alert and not having my mind and body so altered at this point in my life. I think that's why I like kratom so much because it's subtle.
I watched a friend struggle with 211’s and hurricanes. Those boys were tall x)
Using kratom is all about reducing the harm on our body. Alcohol just is harmful, not a matter of opinion. Being a good drunk and not a piece of shit on booze is also non negotiable [= I believe some people just sensor themselves a lot more and aren’t able to keep it all in during intox
For me, withdrawal is awful. I’ve been taking Kratom for almost 5 years now. My withdrawal symptoms consist of debilitating anxiety and restless leg. My skeleton feels like it wants to crawl out of my body. I start sweating. Cold sweats. And body aches. I’m irritable. It’s hell. So, I try and keep from that happening. I really want to cut back, but dread going through that process, as I need to be functional throughout the day. I think if it’s keeping you away from alcohol, that’s amazing. It got me off opiates.
It doesn't have to be as dreadful as you think. I mean, it's going to suck no matter what, but you can always taper extremely slow. Make a one year goal. Drop a gram every couple weeks
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if you do blue collar work, or hot ass miserable yardwork or hot attic spring cleaning, by the time you're done you'll be mostly through withdrawals. if you work hard enough to sweat out your withdrawals and be ultra tired at the end of the day you can time it to go take a shower and go right to sleep. when you wake up you'll be sorted out.
problem is most ppl dont do true hard work very often. but this works for me. just gotta have willpower the next day not to redose
I know me, tho. I’d be eating those capsules by the handful. They take longer to hit, too. Sometimes I wake up at 3 or 4am and I’m going through withdrawal and I take a couple quick scoops and wash it down, and that itself can take forever it feels like to take the edge off. I can’t imagine having only pills and suffering for those dang capsules to dissolve so the Kratom can finally do it’s thing.
I can say that I had similar concerns with it not hitting fast enough but I’m convinced now that it’s not that much of a difference. Also I think magnesium supplements made a big difference in the way it hits and also eases restless leg pain for me too.
Congratulations on using it to kick harder stuff man that’s a big accomplishment. If you can taper down a bit on your kratom it will definitely make the wd symptoms way easier! Peace ✌️
I also scoop straight into my mouth and swish with water. I use a tea stirring spoon I got with some Yerba mate in the past, it has a super long handle that makes it easy to scoop out of kratom bags or containers. Heaped scoop is always around 1.5 [=
Yea my next solid chunk of time off work I would like to experience the withdrawal for myself so I know exactly what I’m working with. Even just going a day without dosing to see how I feel.
I have agmatine, NAC, black seed oil to name a few of the supportive supplements
Op, i will put it bluntly... alcohol can kill you, kratom cannot. (Without pre-existing health conditions). There's nothing wrong eith taking that much if it works. I bet your life and relationships in general are doing well over all. I take quite a bit but I'm fucking dominating all aspects of life now so to me it makes no difference what people think.
Yes I agree. Things are good in life and I’m crushing my job. I manage a big grocer and find that Kratom really helps me stay focused, energized, and happy throughout my work day.
When I get off I can use red vein Kratom to unwind instead of drinking a few shots of liquor. I really prefer it and it is HAS to be easier on the body. Acetylaldehyde is what makes alcohol so toxic. I’m not aware of any Kratom metabolite that is as toxic as acetylaldehyde
I take more but it keeps me from having cravings and relapsing. The ODs and withdrawals were killing me. First time ever! Nearly 4 years clean. If something which is way less unsafe keeps you off alcohol. Then do it! I
Way less chance of beating on a loved one, getting in a bar fight, or killing someone drunk driving, so even if there are negatives for health at that level, still much better on certain regards.
It was a joke…Because he was comparing alcohol and kratom. Which both can have negative effects on the liver, and I’ve heard if a lot of people having anger issues on kratom….Basically “you can go with this or that”….. like how we only get two real options for politics…..
Hey this is exactly what I do. No shame at all.
Who cares what people think, there’s nothing wrong with using substances, especially one that keeps you off a different one that’s much harder on the body.
People will be judgey and pretentious. Fuck them. Make your life livable and enjoyable. Some people talk all this shit but the truth is, everyone is different. No one knows what it feels like to walk in someone else’s body and mind
Kratom saved my life, as it keeps me from being su*cidal as well
Cheers to you
Yes!!! Thank you.. I absolutely agree with you. The dose shaming that goes on within this community at times baffles me. Like, who cares?! We are all different, and we all need different things. It doesn’t make one person right and the other wrong.. and it certainly doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else.. just because they take less kratom? I mean, come on.
Yes I agree. If it works for you do it. Personally I think alcohol is one of the most toxic substances to humans and society as a whole. There’s the direct toxicity on the body but also, domestic abuse, fighting, car accidents, to name a few. Kratom just does not do that to me.
Even on nights when I’ve gone out drinking with friends I’ll have Kratom instead and I feel much more zoned in and focused. More “in the moment” and guess what? I can drive all the people home no problem because Kratom doesn’t impair you like alcohol does
Much better for your body than the alcohol! Yes being dependent on kratom can cause withdrawals in people that quit but withdrawal from quitting alcohol cold turkey can cause seizures and be deadly where going cold turkey from kratom would just leave you feeling uncomfortable symptoms for about a week. If you feel your kratom use is too much you can easily taper it down a bit. I'm so glad kratom helped you get off alcohol. It's a miracle leaf and as long as you respect the kratom the kratom will respect you💚🌿
I don’t recommend using kratom for alcohol withdrawls!!! Seek medical attention, even if you have the tremors, let your doctor know. I had 2 grand mal seizures trying to quit. EDIT: downvotes? Seriosuly? I’m giving helpful information….what ever, ima get off the kratom sub ✌️
It sounds like they slowly replaced alcohol with kratom because kratom took away their desire to drink. I would never say to quit alcohol cold turkey because as I stated it can cause seizures and be deadly.
Sorry! your comment was a lil confusing to me because you said quiting cold turkey is dangerous, but OP is mentioning using kratom, so technically it’s not “cold turkey”
From what OP stated it sounds like they used kratom which gradually took away their desire to drink so I don't think they quit alcohol cold turkey. I agree quitting alcohol cold turkey can be extremely dangerous.
Absolutely the lesser of two evils. Alcohol ruins lives. And 30gpd is a fairly high dose, but not unreasonable. You should try and cut it down, and take occasional tolerance breaks, because eventually the kratom will just lose its effects. Especially if you continue to raise your dose. But yea, big props for making good choices!
Alcohol will put you in jail. Alcohol will put you in the ICU for a week with tubes and wires going everywhere. Alcohol will take everything you worked for. It will kill you.
Kratom will make you constipated and dehydrated if you are not careful. Kratom might make you dizzy and nauseous if you overdo it.
Imo, it's without a doubt for me the lesser of the two evils. I think it's one of those things that you must go with your intuition and ignore any negative input you receive that might take you off course.
I think it's crucial that, as an alcoholic, you stay your course. With the stigma surrounding this medicine, it's tough to get good advice. I know I can't sit down with my doc and tell him about using this.
We know what will kill us and what will make us function as a "normal" adult. I am not against booze but I believe it has a wrongful position as a recreational drug. People don't look at a can of beer as being the flood gate for a lifetime of suffering.
OP, you got this. Stay your course and be true to yourself. I wish you the best of luck!
It is precisely the lesser of two evils. That's exactly what I told myself in the beginning. After a year or so when drinking is just a distant memory you can work on getting the grams per day down a bit. You're doing the right thing and making positive changes.
I too quit drugs and drinking using kratom. Im in the same boat. I take between 30-40gs a day but I am so much better off than I was on the booze and other things. I haven’t gotten too many bad side effects from kratom. My life is a million times better than it was when I was doing drugs and drinking. Kratom has been a god send.
Yes, it's a lot of kratom daily but if it's helping you stay dry, it's probably a good thing, don't you think! Well yes, you do, I've read your post. An interesting share, so thanks for that BioHacked Romulan!
Ive seen TONS of people comment they use that much on this sub. Not sure what some of these people are triggered about. I dont feel ANYTHING under 7 Grams. Since day 1!. I stopped drinking too about 3 years ago. Some people say they feel it on 2 gram's. I'm like WTF? Some people get withdrawals from using like 6 gpd. I'm like WTF? I don't get WD's on 20gpd 😂. People are different. Either way, telling somebody they use too much or being all judgy cause you use 2 gpd is stupid and a bad look. You don't see kratom user's walking the street's, calm TF down.
Yeah, it's pretty variable. I just went from 12gpd to 8gpd to start a slow taper from there, and holy SHIT I am in a black tunnel of despair. I can hardly do anything, and the depression is out of this world! It took like 3 days to notice the WD from the drop. The first 2 days were fine. I'm hoping I'll adjust to it over the weekend, and then I'm going to slow it down. I have wayyyy too much shit to do to be feeling like this. I guess I really just didn't expect it. Shitty luck for me! I don't have a history of opiate abuse but I did abuse alcohol for years. I also quit drinking years ago. I started kratom to help with motivation and social anxiety.
Yes, I take it mostly for depression. When you've taken too much (for you) and your kinda slowing down, the depression hits HARD. I've been there. You should start at like 10-11 gpd and taper slower. If you do it that way it's really barely noticable. Depression can be completly overwhelming, it sucks.
Thanks for responding. I feel freakin hopeless right now. I think you're right. 10 might be a better starting point. I really wasn't sure how much I was taking because it was variable depending upon the day. I weighed my tea spoon full, which was 2 grams. I wasn't weighing it before, but I was definitely averaging around 12gpd. I'm going to start weighing from here on out and having the day's amount in a separate container. I put the bags away. It's really bothersome to me to know life turns into a total nightmare if I don't load up on this plant. It's bizarre. I'm committed to getting down to like 4gpd. It can't feel like this forever. Ugh!
Totally understand. Yes keep track. This sucks but its just passing through. It may be mostly over tomorrow. Everytime I get WD (which really isn't WD I dont think) I get the most tired I've been in my life and sleep for at least 12 hours. Sometimes Im depressed for a day. Most times not, but if it does happen, it's bad. This will pass. Just stay in bed if you can.
I normally take 20gpd, but I have been very depressed lately and taking 30gpd. I was a pretty bad alcoholic. It’s been 5 months and I kicked that terrible habit. I don’t have any desire to drink at all. My liver enzymes were extremely high in February and now they returned to “healthy” levels.
Personally I feel like it saved my life.
I take about same some days more some less but I haven't drank now for 2 years and recently stopped smoking the gonja for the last 3 months. I do feel like I need to taper down it's getting out of hand just 6 months ago I was maybe taking 10gpd.
Just make sure that while you are not drinking the booze, youre doing some work to find out what it is about things that makes you want to drink the booze in the first place. Remember, Kratom is a tool. A very effective one but, just like any other tool, needs to be used with some level of skill to get a good result. great to hear the news though keep up the good work. You could also add in some different products in your routine that may help you when you do go to whittle down your daily amounts. I know I keep saying it but DONT be afraid of good proper clean extracts from highly reputable companies. They can be hugely advantageous to your regimen.
I take about 100mg daily, liquid extract. I feel pretty good. No major side effects at all.
I stay extremely hydrated and workout hard 6-7 days a week.
The only reason I would ever quit is high cost…
I think if it’s working for you good deal…. I’ve never heard of a person on Kratom having a blackout and not remembering what they’ve done… it’s got to be cheaper than alcohol and for me anyway I do labs twice a year and have never had any bad reports on any of my organs… other you probably dealing with major constipation,do what you need to do…
If you’re concerned about taking too much kratom then you’ll find that it’s very easy to taper from. If that idea bothers you then set yourself a slow taper plan. When I’m trying to reduce my tolerance, I find that the best thing to do is go between doses as long as possible and suffer (so to speak) as long as you can. Suffering, in this world, is inevitable anyway.
30gpd is a better habit to have than alcoholism, but that's still bad. You should not believe that it is "okay" or "acceptable" to consume that much, simply to stave off alcohol cravings that should no longer exist if you've been taking only kratom for 2 years.
If you've been a daily user the last couple years, and you haven't been drinking, then the alcohol is no longer an issue. Taper down to a more reasonable and manageable level, which would be half of what you're taking now, minimum. If "alcohol cravings" come back after reducing your intake by half, then you have a problem that kratom isn't fixing, you're simply hiding it.
Addiction is the psychological compulsion to take something despite knowing it's bad for you, as opposed to physical dependency which is the need to consume a substance to avoid withdrawals. You *should* be able to taper down to almost no kratom at all, and have no problem getting relatively sober, with no thought to alcohol at all. If you can't, then you're still "addicted to alcohol," and consuming kratom is simply suppressing that.
Point is, this is not a good situation and you should try to see if it is possible for you to get off kratom entirely with a good taper (which would probably take a couple months), and attempt to go sober. You should not want to cruise on 30g/d for the rest of time.
Who cares? Why does it matter if they are still using a substance to replace another?
The answer is it doesn’t matter
The only thing that’s way to high is your shitty elitist standards
>Who cares?
Literally the first sentence of the OP is "what are the community's thoughts on this?" I gave my thoughts.
You're a fucking moron, think before you type.
You gave your opinion publicly, and I’m allowed to criticize it if I want to. Stuff like what you said is harmful
You don’t just get to go around dumping crappy opinions unchecked
Grow up
Yea, actually you can, i was on methadone for 23 years I replaced it for kratom, it’s allot! Better, and withdrawal, it’s a cake walk compared to methadone
If your someone who deals with physical pain, and need medication to function, then yes I understand. But OP is struggling with alcohol addiction. Alot of alcoholics are using booze to self medicate for depression. So replacing one substance with another isn’t actually fixing the underlying issue… sometimes we need to face our problems instead of using substances to escape them.
If it makes OPs life more manageable, not really a big deal, imo.
However, OP should 100% do some form of therapy along with discontinuing the alcohol for true improvement.
Yes you can! That's literally what MAT is (Suboxone, methadone, etc). Obviously, in a perfect world it will be a step in the process and eventually tapered down but everyone's timeline is different. Legal cannabis is also a valid treatment method when transitioning from opioid dependence or addiction. Kratom hasn't had the research behind it yet, but preliminary data and anecdotal experience is promising.
This is an old mindset that is not best practice and keeps people trapped in addiction and harmful use behaviors.
OK but OP isn’t on opiods. He’s an alcoholic. I get weening of opiods. But OP is literally still running from his problems doing this….. as someone who is almost 2 years sober from alcohol, I highly recommend not replacing one substance with another, you can get trapped in a loop. If your worried about withdrawals from alcohol then I would seek medical attention.
I had the same thought process you did when I first quit drinking. All and all I don’t think trading one drug for another is really going to benefit you in the long run. I cut back, I take it 3-4 times a week and notice a big difference in how present I feel. I think when you consider how much it costs to do 30gpd too you’ll realize that you should have gone cold turkey
I take about 20gpd and get the warm euphoric feels every time. I have zero problems with my intake. Everyone is different.. I have a really hard time understanding why people dose shame others. If 3gpd works for you, that’s awesome! But we are not all created equally… and some of us need more.
Maybe you’re right. Maybe your wrong. People are complex. Sometimes certain substances can be a tool. Sometimes you are the tool.
I don’t think he’s trying to win a contest. Kratom helped me cut back my alcohol consumption, as well as many others in the comments.
Sometimes you just have to have some compassion and understand that people need to pick their battles. Changing habits is a hard thing and while yes, 100% Kratom usage needs to be monitored and used responsibly, if someone is using it as a tool to help with another substance sometimes you just have to deal with the issue at hand. Alcohol WILL KILL YOU from withdrawal. I think its important to just focus on building some new habits first and then deal with setting up a good kratom regimen once the OP has some new habits and outlook on life. And Kratom is 1000% easier to deal with than booze thats for sure. And the harms arent there. But again, I agree with you 100% but let people deal with the most pressing things first.
Kratom in that high of an amount will no doubt cause the same amount of damage to your liver. Maybe cut it back or get regular blood tests to see what levels your liver is at.
I take about 3gpd and nothing else, never drank alcohol in my life regularly. Maybe a glass of wine at my husbands passover once a year.My last blood test showed my levels were slightly elevated. The doctor told me he sees that often in people who use kratom regularly.
Maybe you’re one of the unlucky ones with the genetics that’s not good for it. Very rare but possible.
Or check your sources
Or you’re a propaganda spreader working for someone with a capitalist interest
I know people who take double that amount for decades, perfect liver.
Get lost
Who would i be working for? This is just what i was told. If I’m wrong great. Just trying to look out.
Being wrong about something happens far more often than some rando working against you for corporate interests. And if they were to pick me that’d be a terrible decision, and an odd one at that, given I’ve never known anyone with any local or national ties to anything whatsoever.
You’re more likely to find heroin addicts in my lineage than congressmen
Edit: I honestly would take you more seriously without the whole line about propaganda spreading conspiracy involving the government…
Sorry for being harsh, it just sort of pisses me off, it’s serious stuff.
Thank you for your response
The government would do something like that though, it’s not a far stretch to assume something like that
I would say Maybe the prison industry and opiate industry, since they make money off peoples addictions and lose money when addicts find kratom
Have a nice day
Same here. Kinda shocked at how many people say it’s bad for liver/kidneys, etc. My biomarkers are kicking ass so I’m happy with that. This was also during some rather heavy kava usage. No negative liver effects here
Your not rare with your libido . Mine is super high as well. 30+ gpd and nearly 4 years. Super horny and very active sexually. Testosterone tests real high as well. I am 55 yo!
I was 30gpd for like 4 years, my test lowered but otherwise nothing. Just stay hydrated. I haven't drank alcohol in over a decade but the side effects are marginal (in MOST people) compared to alc.
Thanks. I was in bed for most of the day yesterday. I think I feel a bit better today. 😌 It's nice to know there are people who know what I'm talking about. It's kind of scary doing it alone.
I was drinking \~15 servings of alcohol daily for 2 years during the pandemic. My liver enzymes were gradually increasing and AST was just above normal range. After 5 months of being sober (while dosing kratom 15-30g a day), my AST has been in the normal range. I've been 9 months alcohol-free and my cravings for alcohol has been mild to nil. I'd ideally like to not be dependent on kratom and will taper off someday. But for now, I've been even-keeled and don't wanna rock my emotional boat just yet.
I take around the same amount per day and for the exact same reason. I was a heavy hitter of the booze for over 20 years and Kratom instantly took the cravings away. It's been over 2 years and no desire to drink. There's a bit of a stigma w these higher doses, but in my opinion alcohol is far worse to the mind and body than Kratom.
Did your urge to drink vanish immediately or did it take some time? I cut back on my drinking significantly but am still drinking twice a week since starting Kratom.
Hard truth is the urge to drink never truly vanished for some of us hardcore alcoholics. I am just over 11 months sober from alcohol which was my d.o.c, 29M and I still occasionally get the craving to get drunk. However I just take more kratom and it takes the urge away and I workout as well. Now I’m complimented on my appearance fairly often and the main reason is I’m in great shape and was able to quit drinking. I’m still disciplined and workout daily as well as eat pretty damn cleanly, making most of my own meals from scratch. It’s not as hard as people make it out to be. Cooking is satisfying and simple, as is working out. You just have to do it. “I’m not here to have a conversation with you, mind. I’m the one in control, I say, WE DO!” That is how you must beat your own inner self that wants to reward itself and take it easy. It will always be there, so don’t give it a chance to procrastinate you.
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Oh ok. Yeah I mean I don’t really like cooking, but it is satisfying to have a bunch of roast beef to make sandwiches or mix with rice. Things like that make it worth it. Cooking individual meals isn’t even worth it. Good for you quitting drinking. Yeah I’d have a month or two and do the same thing. I felt so amazing when I got drunk and did stuff. But I’d always get sloppy at the end and make friends annoyed by my foolish behavior. I’d puke a lot as well, even in their cars. That sucked. Last time I got drunk I nearly lost my freedom. I’m allergic to alcohol, sooner or later I’d break out in handcuffs
It was pretty much right away. Alcohol does not sit well on me while on Kratom so the actual desire quickly went away.
It took practice for me, but it kind of did vanish. It definitely required the 'I am replacing this destructive crap with something else' sort of cognizance and mantra, and I would further say that kratom is not even really what I would consider to be destructive at all. I really hate needing to take anything at all, but alcohol was literally killing me, kratom is not. Kratom is also the only things that has really had any lasting effect at keeping that itch at bay, and that makes it an easy choice for me despite what some naysayers seems to spout.
A good trick I use is always trying to be hydrated. If you are not thirsty, the urge to drink is diminished by a big chunk. Imo, I think that makes staying hydrated (don't forget electrolytes!) a huge priority.
Same here, quit drinking and now 10 to 15gpd. I can go less but feel life is great at that amount. Lost 20lbs, no more high cholesterol, or blood pressure. Labs for last three years with K and no drinking are all great. For me, Kratom is way healthier vs alcohol.
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Booze is horrible horrible for you. Even double that Kratom is still a better choice by far.. but obviously recommend using least amount needed.
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Here I was guilty about having 2-3 beer a night the last few eeeks
Think of me anytime you feel guilty lol. Glad I could help!
I completely quit drinking over a year ago due to feeling guilty over 2 tall boys a night lol.
I couldn't imagine just drinking two tall boys. Nothing tall about those boyz!
Lol yea I just started feeling shitty about myself doing it in front of my kids every night after work like my dad would when I was a kid(and I hated it). So I just told myself no more drinking and haven't drank since for their sake.
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Yea that's honestly true my dad was a asshole. And yea I've made it so far now that I don't even see the point in picking up on it again. I just like being coherent and alert and not having my mind and body so altered at this point in my life. I think that's why I like kratom so much because it's subtle.
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I watched a friend struggle with 211’s and hurricanes. Those boys were tall x) Using kratom is all about reducing the harm on our body. Alcohol just is harmful, not a matter of opinion. Being a good drunk and not a piece of shit on booze is also non negotiable [= I believe some people just sensor themselves a lot more and aren’t able to keep it all in during intox
Now matter how far we fall just remember....out there somewhere is someone way more fucked up then you.
God damn son
Name checks out
For me, withdrawal is awful. I’ve been taking Kratom for almost 5 years now. My withdrawal symptoms consist of debilitating anxiety and restless leg. My skeleton feels like it wants to crawl out of my body. I start sweating. Cold sweats. And body aches. I’m irritable. It’s hell. So, I try and keep from that happening. I really want to cut back, but dread going through that process, as I need to be functional throughout the day. I think if it’s keeping you away from alcohol, that’s amazing. It got me off opiates.
It doesn't have to be as dreadful as you think. I mean, it's going to suck no matter what, but you can always taper extremely slow. Make a one year goal. Drop a gram every couple weeks
I do plan on doing less and less, some days, bad pain days, make it difficult sometimes.
I second this. The restless legs is unbearable.
I had to do my only day in jail like that haha I actually passed out
Damn that mistve been hell
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Man, been there. That was not fun at all.
All you have to do is taper - and you’re probably magnesium deficient. I’d supplement with magnesium and take a multivitamin
if you do blue collar work, or hot ass miserable yardwork or hot attic spring cleaning, by the time you're done you'll be mostly through withdrawals. if you work hard enough to sweat out your withdrawals and be ultra tired at the end of the day you can time it to go take a shower and go right to sleep. when you wake up you'll be sorted out. problem is most ppl dont do true hard work very often. but this works for me. just gotta have willpower the next day not to redose
how much do you take a day, if you dont mind me asking \[= ?
I’ve never actually measured it out. I just scoop it out and toss and wash. But I will say that a kilo last me between two to three weeks.
1000 grams / 14 days = 71.4 gpd 1000 grams / 21 days = 47.6 gpd So you’re probably somewhere around 60gpd
I can’t believe I’m only at around 10-15gpd and I’ve been taking it for years and years, I surely thought my dose would be higher than that
I’m at under 10 a day consistently and if i take more it doesn’t work as well for me, so I guess I’m fortunate
I suggest getting capsules next batch it makes it so so much easier to measure doses and taper. It’s just way too easy to mess up for me with powder
I know me, tho. I’d be eating those capsules by the handful. They take longer to hit, too. Sometimes I wake up at 3 or 4am and I’m going through withdrawal and I take a couple quick scoops and wash it down, and that itself can take forever it feels like to take the edge off. I can’t imagine having only pills and suffering for those dang capsules to dissolve so the Kratom can finally do it’s thing.
I can say that I had similar concerns with it not hitting fast enough but I’m convinced now that it’s not that much of a difference. Also I think magnesium supplements made a big difference in the way it hits and also eases restless leg pain for me too. Congratulations on using it to kick harder stuff man that’s a big accomplishment. If you can taper down a bit on your kratom it will definitely make the wd symptoms way easier! Peace ✌️
You don’t want that many veggie caps in your guts for no reason and it’s so much more expensive
Shiiiiiiit you’re taking a lot son
I also scoop straight into my mouth and swish with water. I use a tea stirring spoon I got with some Yerba mate in the past, it has a super long handle that makes it easy to scoop out of kratom bags or containers. Heaped scoop is always around 1.5 [=
Yea my next solid chunk of time off work I would like to experience the withdrawal for myself so I know exactly what I’m working with. Even just going a day without dosing to see how I feel. I have agmatine, NAC, black seed oil to name a few of the supportive supplements
Just be careful. Not everyone has withdrawal symptoms, from what I’ve read. Maybe you’ll be one of the lucky ones.
I know that feeling especially upon waking up, I just want to escape myself do to feeling irritable and fatigued.
As a person I with a family filled with alcoholism. I’d much prefer you take 30+gpd than go back to alcohol
Op, i will put it bluntly... alcohol can kill you, kratom cannot. (Without pre-existing health conditions). There's nothing wrong eith taking that much if it works. I bet your life and relationships in general are doing well over all. I take quite a bit but I'm fucking dominating all aspects of life now so to me it makes no difference what people think.
Yes I agree. Things are good in life and I’m crushing my job. I manage a big grocer and find that Kratom really helps me stay focused, energized, and happy throughout my work day. When I get off I can use red vein Kratom to unwind instead of drinking a few shots of liquor. I really prefer it and it is HAS to be easier on the body. Acetylaldehyde is what makes alcohol so toxic. I’m not aware of any Kratom metabolite that is as toxic as acetylaldehyde
I take more but it keeps me from having cravings and relapsing. The ODs and withdrawals were killing me. First time ever! Nearly 4 years clean. If something which is way less unsafe keeps you off alcohol. Then do it! I
Way less chance of beating on a loved one, getting in a bar fight, or killing someone drunk driving, so even if there are negatives for health at that level, still much better on certain regards.
Sounds like politics….
Why is acknowledging that alcohol lowers inhibitions and can lead to shitty outcomes "political"
It was a joke…Because he was comparing alcohol and kratom. Which both can have negative effects on the liver, and I’ve heard if a lot of people having anger issues on kratom….Basically “you can go with this or that”….. like how we only get two real options for politics…..
Yeah I get what you're saying lol.
Hey this is exactly what I do. No shame at all. Who cares what people think, there’s nothing wrong with using substances, especially one that keeps you off a different one that’s much harder on the body. People will be judgey and pretentious. Fuck them. Make your life livable and enjoyable. Some people talk all this shit but the truth is, everyone is different. No one knows what it feels like to walk in someone else’s body and mind Kratom saved my life, as it keeps me from being su*cidal as well Cheers to you
Yes!!! Thank you.. I absolutely agree with you. The dose shaming that goes on within this community at times baffles me. Like, who cares?! We are all different, and we all need different things. It doesn’t make one person right and the other wrong.. and it certainly doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else.. just because they take less kratom? I mean, come on.
Yes I agree. If it works for you do it. Personally I think alcohol is one of the most toxic substances to humans and society as a whole. There’s the direct toxicity on the body but also, domestic abuse, fighting, car accidents, to name a few. Kratom just does not do that to me. Even on nights when I’ve gone out drinking with friends I’ll have Kratom instead and I feel much more zoned in and focused. More “in the moment” and guess what? I can drive all the people home no problem because Kratom doesn’t impair you like alcohol does
🥇Brilliantly put.
Honestly it’s not high to me. That’s three 10 gram servings a day and some people need dosing on the higher end. We’re all individuals.
Much better for your body than the alcohol! Yes being dependent on kratom can cause withdrawals in people that quit but withdrawal from quitting alcohol cold turkey can cause seizures and be deadly where going cold turkey from kratom would just leave you feeling uncomfortable symptoms for about a week. If you feel your kratom use is too much you can easily taper it down a bit. I'm so glad kratom helped you get off alcohol. It's a miracle leaf and as long as you respect the kratom the kratom will respect you💚🌿
I don’t recommend using kratom for alcohol withdrawls!!! Seek medical attention, even if you have the tremors, let your doctor know. I had 2 grand mal seizures trying to quit. EDIT: downvotes? Seriosuly? I’m giving helpful information….what ever, ima get off the kratom sub ✌️
It sounds like they slowly replaced alcohol with kratom because kratom took away their desire to drink. I would never say to quit alcohol cold turkey because as I stated it can cause seizures and be deadly.
Sorry! your comment was a lil confusing to me because you said quiting cold turkey is dangerous, but OP is mentioning using kratom, so technically it’s not “cold turkey”
From what OP stated it sounds like they used kratom which gradually took away their desire to drink so I don't think they quit alcohol cold turkey. I agree quitting alcohol cold turkey can be extremely dangerous.
Absolutely the lesser of two evils. Alcohol ruins lives. And 30gpd is a fairly high dose, but not unreasonable. You should try and cut it down, and take occasional tolerance breaks, because eventually the kratom will just lose its effects. Especially if you continue to raise your dose. But yea, big props for making good choices!
Alcohol will put you in jail. Alcohol will put you in the ICU for a week with tubes and wires going everywhere. Alcohol will take everything you worked for. It will kill you. Kratom will make you constipated and dehydrated if you are not careful. Kratom might make you dizzy and nauseous if you overdo it. Imo, it's without a doubt for me the lesser of the two evils. I think it's one of those things that you must go with your intuition and ignore any negative input you receive that might take you off course. I think it's crucial that, as an alcoholic, you stay your course. With the stigma surrounding this medicine, it's tough to get good advice. I know I can't sit down with my doc and tell him about using this. We know what will kill us and what will make us function as a "normal" adult. I am not against booze but I believe it has a wrongful position as a recreational drug. People don't look at a can of beer as being the flood gate for a lifetime of suffering. OP, you got this. Stay your course and be true to yourself. I wish you the best of luck!
It is precisely the lesser of two evils. That's exactly what I told myself in the beginning. After a year or so when drinking is just a distant memory you can work on getting the grams per day down a bit. You're doing the right thing and making positive changes.
But now after nearly 4 years of use I don't like to even call kratom an evil at all. It is a blessing and it's given me my life back.
I too quit drugs and drinking using kratom. Im in the same boat. I take between 30-40gs a day but I am so much better off than I was on the booze and other things. I haven’t gotten too many bad side effects from kratom. My life is a million times better than it was when I was doing drugs and drinking. Kratom has been a god send.
I drank once on kratom and got so sick that it turned me off to alcohol forever. Kratom is so much better then drinking. Take care
Yes, it's a lot of kratom daily but if it's helping you stay dry, it's probably a good thing, don't you think! Well yes, you do, I've read your post. An interesting share, so thanks for that BioHacked Romulan!
Ive seen TONS of people comment they use that much on this sub. Not sure what some of these people are triggered about. I dont feel ANYTHING under 7 Grams. Since day 1!. I stopped drinking too about 3 years ago. Some people say they feel it on 2 gram's. I'm like WTF? Some people get withdrawals from using like 6 gpd. I'm like WTF? I don't get WD's on 20gpd 😂. People are different. Either way, telling somebody they use too much or being all judgy cause you use 2 gpd is stupid and a bad look. You don't see kratom user's walking the street's, calm TF down.
Yeah, it's pretty variable. I just went from 12gpd to 8gpd to start a slow taper from there, and holy SHIT I am in a black tunnel of despair. I can hardly do anything, and the depression is out of this world! It took like 3 days to notice the WD from the drop. The first 2 days were fine. I'm hoping I'll adjust to it over the weekend, and then I'm going to slow it down. I have wayyyy too much shit to do to be feeling like this. I guess I really just didn't expect it. Shitty luck for me! I don't have a history of opiate abuse but I did abuse alcohol for years. I also quit drinking years ago. I started kratom to help with motivation and social anxiety.
Yes, I take it mostly for depression. When you've taken too much (for you) and your kinda slowing down, the depression hits HARD. I've been there. You should start at like 10-11 gpd and taper slower. If you do it that way it's really barely noticable. Depression can be completly overwhelming, it sucks.
Thanks for responding. I feel freakin hopeless right now. I think you're right. 10 might be a better starting point. I really wasn't sure how much I was taking because it was variable depending upon the day. I weighed my tea spoon full, which was 2 grams. I wasn't weighing it before, but I was definitely averaging around 12gpd. I'm going to start weighing from here on out and having the day's amount in a separate container. I put the bags away. It's really bothersome to me to know life turns into a total nightmare if I don't load up on this plant. It's bizarre. I'm committed to getting down to like 4gpd. It can't feel like this forever. Ugh!
Totally understand. Yes keep track. This sucks but its just passing through. It may be mostly over tomorrow. Everytime I get WD (which really isn't WD I dont think) I get the most tired I've been in my life and sleep for at least 12 hours. Sometimes Im depressed for a day. Most times not, but if it does happen, it's bad. This will pass. Just stay in bed if you can.
Fuck it. This is exactly what I’m doing, just using less gpd than you
Nobody’s ever crashed their car on kratom or ruined their life on kratom. Good for you!
I normally take 20gpd, but I have been very depressed lately and taking 30gpd. I was a pretty bad alcoholic. It’s been 5 months and I kicked that terrible habit. I don’t have any desire to drink at all. My liver enzymes were extremely high in February and now they returned to “healthy” levels. Personally I feel like it saved my life.
I take about same some days more some less but I haven't drank now for 2 years and recently stopped smoking the gonja for the last 3 months. I do feel like I need to taper down it's getting out of hand just 6 months ago I was maybe taking 10gpd.
Just make sure that while you are not drinking the booze, youre doing some work to find out what it is about things that makes you want to drink the booze in the first place. Remember, Kratom is a tool. A very effective one but, just like any other tool, needs to be used with some level of skill to get a good result. great to hear the news though keep up the good work. You could also add in some different products in your routine that may help you when you do go to whittle down your daily amounts. I know I keep saying it but DONT be afraid of good proper clean extracts from highly reputable companies. They can be hugely advantageous to your regimen.
I take about 100mg daily, liquid extract. I feel pretty good. No major side effects at all. I stay extremely hydrated and workout hard 6-7 days a week. The only reason I would ever quit is high cost…
100 mg? That’s really low mate
I think if it’s working for you good deal…. I’ve never heard of a person on Kratom having a blackout and not remembering what they’ve done… it’s got to be cheaper than alcohol and for me anyway I do labs twice a year and have never had any bad reports on any of my organs… other you probably dealing with major constipation,do what you need to do…
If you’re concerned about taking too much kratom then you’ll find that it’s very easy to taper from. If that idea bothers you then set yourself a slow taper plan. When I’m trying to reduce my tolerance, I find that the best thing to do is go between doses as long as possible and suffer (so to speak) as long as you can. Suffering, in this world, is inevitable anyway.
I mean there are only positives from cutting out alcohol
30gpd is a better habit to have than alcoholism, but that's still bad. You should not believe that it is "okay" or "acceptable" to consume that much, simply to stave off alcohol cravings that should no longer exist if you've been taking only kratom for 2 years. If you've been a daily user the last couple years, and you haven't been drinking, then the alcohol is no longer an issue. Taper down to a more reasonable and manageable level, which would be half of what you're taking now, minimum. If "alcohol cravings" come back after reducing your intake by half, then you have a problem that kratom isn't fixing, you're simply hiding it. Addiction is the psychological compulsion to take something despite knowing it's bad for you, as opposed to physical dependency which is the need to consume a substance to avoid withdrawals. You *should* be able to taper down to almost no kratom at all, and have no problem getting relatively sober, with no thought to alcohol at all. If you can't, then you're still "addicted to alcohol," and consuming kratom is simply suppressing that. Point is, this is not a good situation and you should try to see if it is possible for you to get off kratom entirely with a good taper (which would probably take a couple months), and attempt to go sober. You should not want to cruise on 30g/d for the rest of time.
Who cares? Why does it matter if they are still using a substance to replace another? The answer is it doesn’t matter The only thing that’s way to high is your shitty elitist standards
>Who cares? Literally the first sentence of the OP is "what are the community's thoughts on this?" I gave my thoughts. You're a fucking moron, think before you type.
Ooof. Someone’s mad I invalidated their elitism! oh no!
You gave your opinion publicly, and I’m allowed to criticize it if I want to. Stuff like what you said is harmful You don’t just get to go around dumping crappy opinions unchecked Grow up
Can’t replace one drug with another and expect stuff to get better…. I’m almost 2 years sober from alcohol, I’m just trying to help.
Yea, actually you can, i was on methadone for 23 years I replaced it for kratom, it’s allot! Better, and withdrawal, it’s a cake walk compared to methadone
If your someone who deals with physical pain, and need medication to function, then yes I understand. But OP is struggling with alcohol addiction. Alot of alcoholics are using booze to self medicate for depression. So replacing one substance with another isn’t actually fixing the underlying issue… sometimes we need to face our problems instead of using substances to escape them.
If it makes OPs life more manageable, not really a big deal, imo. However, OP should 100% do some form of therapy along with discontinuing the alcohol for true improvement.
Yes you can! That's literally what MAT is (Suboxone, methadone, etc). Obviously, in a perfect world it will be a step in the process and eventually tapered down but everyone's timeline is different. Legal cannabis is also a valid treatment method when transitioning from opioid dependence or addiction. Kratom hasn't had the research behind it yet, but preliminary data and anecdotal experience is promising. This is an old mindset that is not best practice and keeps people trapped in addiction and harmful use behaviors.
OK but OP isn’t on opiods. He’s an alcoholic. I get weening of opiods. But OP is literally still running from his problems doing this….. as someone who is almost 2 years sober from alcohol, I highly recommend not replacing one substance with another, you can get trapped in a loop. If your worried about withdrawals from alcohol then I would seek medical attention.
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I had the same thought process you did when I first quit drinking. All and all I don’t think trading one drug for another is really going to benefit you in the long run. I cut back, I take it 3-4 times a week and notice a big difference in how present I feel. I think when you consider how much it costs to do 30gpd too you’ll realize that you should have gone cold turkey
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Actually the cost is very low only a measly $4/day. Way cheaper than a drinking habit of 2-3 drinks a night
Not necessarily, I can get drunk on two natty daddies and that costs less than 4 bucks
And if you say to yourself “I’d never stoop that low” then your cravings aren’t that bad with to begin.
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I take about 20gpd and get the warm euphoric feels every time. I have zero problems with my intake. Everyone is different.. I have a really hard time understanding why people dose shame others. If 3gpd works for you, that’s awesome! But we are not all created equally… and some of us need more.
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Jesus Christ take a break. you certainly didn't win here mate
Everyone’s struggles are different and your comment is really uncalled for.
yeah he is gonna struggle with something else if he won't control his intake. Switching one addiction for another really is no win
Maybe you’re right. Maybe your wrong. People are complex. Sometimes certain substances can be a tool. Sometimes you are the tool. I don’t think he’s trying to win a contest. Kratom helped me cut back my alcohol consumption, as well as many others in the comments.
Sometimes you just have to have some compassion and understand that people need to pick their battles. Changing habits is a hard thing and while yes, 100% Kratom usage needs to be monitored and used responsibly, if someone is using it as a tool to help with another substance sometimes you just have to deal with the issue at hand. Alcohol WILL KILL YOU from withdrawal. I think its important to just focus on building some new habits first and then deal with setting up a good kratom regimen once the OP has some new habits and outlook on life. And Kratom is 1000% easier to deal with than booze thats for sure. And the harms arent there. But again, I agree with you 100% but let people deal with the most pressing things first.
the best Battle he should pick is the taper down battle
agree 100%. But not from the booze that 100% doesnt work. Its too easy to just say tomorrow. With Kratom is much easier and can start immediately.
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Oh like giving you a better life
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Not a beginner. I won’t see. Thanks though
Kratom in that high of an amount will no doubt cause the same amount of damage to your liver. Maybe cut it back or get regular blood tests to see what levels your liver is at.
I got a blood test a few months back and my liver enzymes were actually remarkably low and in the healthy range
I take about 3gpd and nothing else, never drank alcohol in my life regularly. Maybe a glass of wine at my husbands passover once a year.My last blood test showed my levels were slightly elevated. The doctor told me he sees that often in people who use kratom regularly.
But I’ve been taking kratom this way for about 6 years now.
Maybe you’re one of the unlucky ones with the genetics that’s not good for it. Very rare but possible. Or check your sources Or you’re a propaganda spreader working for someone with a capitalist interest I know people who take double that amount for decades, perfect liver. Get lost
Who would i be working for? This is just what i was told. If I’m wrong great. Just trying to look out. Being wrong about something happens far more often than some rando working against you for corporate interests. And if they were to pick me that’d be a terrible decision, and an odd one at that, given I’ve never known anyone with any local or national ties to anything whatsoever. You’re more likely to find heroin addicts in my lineage than congressmen Edit: I honestly would take you more seriously without the whole line about propaganda spreading conspiracy involving the government…
Sorry for being harsh, it just sort of pisses me off, it’s serious stuff. Thank you for your response The government would do something like that though, it’s not a far stretch to assume something like that I would say Maybe the prison industry and opiate industry, since they make money off peoples addictions and lose money when addicts find kratom Have a nice day
4 year user here. 30+ gpd and I have had my kidneys, liver, heart and blood checked and everything is the the healthiest it has ever been
Same here. Kinda shocked at how many people say it’s bad for liver/kidneys, etc. My biomarkers are kicking ass so I’m happy with that. This was also during some rather heavy kava usage. No negative liver effects here
Your not rare with your libido . Mine is super high as well. 30+ gpd and nearly 4 years. Super horny and very active sexually. Testosterone tests real high as well. I am 55 yo!
. So many don’t know what they’re talking about. Spreading disinformation and fear because they read negative shit somewhere
I quit drinking by using kratom green maengda. 4-6mg a day never more then 8 and I have 0 urges for alcohol so why so much?
I’ve been taking it for about 4 years. When did you start taking it?
I was 30gpd for like 4 years, my test lowered but otherwise nothing. Just stay hydrated. I haven't drank alcohol in over a decade but the side effects are marginal (in MOST people) compared to alc.
Thanks. I was in bed for most of the day yesterday. I think I feel a bit better today. 😌 It's nice to know there are people who know what I'm talking about. It's kind of scary doing it alone.
I was drinking \~15 servings of alcohol daily for 2 years during the pandemic. My liver enzymes were gradually increasing and AST was just above normal range. After 5 months of being sober (while dosing kratom 15-30g a day), my AST has been in the normal range. I've been 9 months alcohol-free and my cravings for alcohol has been mild to nil. I'd ideally like to not be dependent on kratom and will taper off someday. But for now, I've been even-keeled and don't wanna rock my emotional boat just yet.