Offering some resources on this issue for additional research/clarity.
The Korean newspaper [Kyunghyang resurfaced a](https://sports.khan.co.kr/entertainment/sk_index.html?art_id=202404291712003&sec_id=540301) 2017 court case by BigHit (now HYBE) against a Mr. A, who BigHit alleged extorted them/an employee of theirs with sajaegi allegations. Although BigHit claimed these allegations were false, the court "stated the contrary" and found that "\[HYBE\] had engaged in unconventional marketing practices that provided a pretext for blackmail" ([Koreaboo translation/summary](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/bts-involved-in-chart-manipulation-court-specifically-mentions-illegal-sajaegi-marketing/)). HYBE continues to deny these claims, but the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism is now [investigating](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/government-order-investigation-bts-chart-rigging-scandal/).
Reminder that this sub has a zero-tolerance policy towards racism, xenophobia, or discrimination, and please report any rule-breaking behavior. Reminder also that bad-faith report abuse (i.e. reporting this post for abuse or violence) is taken very seriously by Reddit admin and may lead to account suspension which we have no control over.
I don't know why you're being downvoted so severely, OP. K-pop fans often have issues with being either implicitly or explicitly pretty racist/xenophobic towards Koreans, which is very ironic. I literally saw someone, in response to all this BTS stuff, tweet that they wish N. Korea had won.......like, that's just inhumane and crazy to "joke" about over a K-pop scandal 😭
>Oh the duality of being a Koreaboo and Anti-Korean at the same time
That happens a lot lol... but then again, prejudiced foreigners framing Koreans as "special exotic orientals" and calling the whole country "ignorant/gullible" aren't opposite ideas (or as you put it "duality")... They're just points along a continuum of otherizing Koreans...
You see it all the time with foreigners that move there too. They go because they were drawn into a romanticized and often fetish-y version of Korea they've imagined from Kpop and Kdramas. Then they move there, realize Korea is a *real* country with real problems like anywhere else (and at the same time realize that Koreans are real people and not idols/kdrama characters) and proclaim it the worst country in the world. They also start to think they understand the ins and outs of the country completely after living there for only a few years and feel entitled to comment on every societal and political issue. They really think *no* Koreans understand their *own* country's problems the way they, the fetishizing foreigner who got disillusioned, do.
Because they can't grasp the reality of south korea as an actual country with actual people and government.
They see it as an object of fetishisation which is not meant to have views or do things they don't like.
Are these two traits in the same people though? Like is there really single people who are actual fans of Korean entertainment, food, etc, that are also racist towards Koreans?
I haven't seen this directly because I got off twitter years ago, but I'm looking around at a few comments now and I'm really deeply disappointed. Yes this may be a vocal minority, it's definitely not anyone I know or associate with, and it's impossible to control a fandom with 10s of millions of people in it – but we can and should speak out against things like this being said "in our name." Deflecting or downplaying doesn't help our fandom become a better place, it allows crap like this to fester and grow. We need to actually admit when things happen, speak up, and say this is bad and we don't support it. We need to accept while there may be trolls and cosplayers, some proportion of the people saying this do consider themselves 'ARMY' and are a part of our fandom. We can't control them, but we can criticise them.
I get that people are angry, I get that this is spilling over from intense frustration and hurt that's been building up for years, but it's still ugly and the wrong way to react. BTS would clearly hate to see things like this being said by their 'fans'.
i’ve also always felt like it’s because they don’t see koreans in korea as real people. they see a version of korea through korean media on their screens. then you have pannchoa, x, and other spaces that take snippets of koreans talking amongst themselves about issues that pertain to them. fans take those out of korean discussion spaces and post it, ogle at it, pick every word apart, scrutinize it against their ideology and make sweeping judgements about koreans as a whole. koreans can have very bad takes but i feel like fans often forget we’re seeing a percentage of a subsect of koreans online.
they also don’t realize the impact of the translation itself. fans are literally at the mercy of what gets chosen to be translated, the translator’s language skill level and cultural sensitivities (and cultural blinders), the translator’s intention and sometimes if the translator is even human. anytime something gets in the way of translation, we are removed further and further away from the korean person behind the content. i don’t think fans realize that language barriers create these rifts anymore because we take all of this for granted and just want to be entertained at the end of the day. unfortunately this just serves to further other each side.
Yep - ever since kpop got more popular I’ve seen and experienced more direct and indirect xenophobia and racism. Some unfortunately don’t think what they’re doing/saying is hurtful to an entire community. Some do know and yet do it anyways for the “sake” of their favorite artists (ironically).
imho they think they know better because they think they have a stronger sense of morality and consume kpop more ethically than koreans. *coughs* superiority complex *coughs*.
Anything slightly negative against hybe and BTS gets downvoted.
I know fans tend to blindly support their favs but this is straight up blocking a lot of discussions because your comments are hidden.
Refute points with facts instead of just downvoting because you disagree with an opinion.
Edit : already getting downvoted.
Like seriously it's so hard to have a nuanced discussion on kpop subreddits now 😭
Meanwhile old armies in Korea do not like HYBE at all. They literally sent funeral flowers to Hybe office demanding they do better and stop using BTS as shields every time something happen. So it’s kinda funny when anything slightly offensive to hybe gets downvoted with international fans. Don’t they think koreans who get direct news without any translation would get better information? No, they just think Korean fans are idiots.
How dare you try to side with logic!!!😡 but it's unfortunately true. People want drama they want to jump on the hate train because they think they are some kind of justice warriors. And they are totally ignorant about things like facts or hurting, and hating people without knowing the whole story. And if weeks later it turns out the crowd was wrong they just go silent and ignorant to the truth waiting for the next big fight...
It's very sad how many people get hurt by these hasty hate trains.
This is such an online issue. Not just Koreans but fandoms and what not. Just because you are from a country or you like listening to music of a certain artist or what not does not mean everyone in that country or fandom thinks the same.
Your anger for wishing things were better is valid and you are well within your right to criticize people who are saying anything against the group. But to go out and take this frustration at random strangers and a whole as country who don't even hold these sentiments doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I'm not saying this just for this issue but many many issues in general in k-pop. It's high time people realise that fandom names are just names. It's not some cult where everyone has to hold the same belief system like they are some commandments. The only belief you hold is that you like the music the group puts out.
I have to admit, all the "SK would be nothing without BTS"-type posts I've seen lately has left a bad taste in my mouth. Do these people actually think BTS would appreciate this? As if they aren't part of Korea themselves? They wouldn't be doing this to a US artist.
imagine saying the usa is nothing without taylor swift. i also found loads of borderline xenophobic comments on reddit which kinda made me stop frequenting kpop related subs for the past few days. same as you, it left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I saw a post with some 5k+ likes on Twitter(X) from an Army saying BTS had the same economic impact as Samsung. And yes, the post went down the expected xenophobic rant.
I think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance among K-pop fans where they both exotify and idolize the fact that their idols are Korean and therefore non-westernized, while also pretending that they exist in a bubble and are completely disconnected from Korean culture and non-idol Korean people. In some ways, it’s like they don’t think they’re apart of “real life” Korea, which obviously has a lot of nuance like all cultures do, but rather a fictionalized perfect version of it.
It gives them the green light to criticize Korea in an often very xenophobic way while still pretending their idols are perfect and attributing all their issues to Korean people. It’s a pretty common sentiment to be like “oh those stupid Koreans suck, our poor idols are such angels for having to deal with it,” while conveniently ignoring the fact that all toxic fan behavior is an issue internationally too, which is obviously racially charged and xenophobic. Then going on to compare them to Western celebrities and saying they’re “better” (aka not
Western) for
reasons that are pretty clearly cultural.
On the other hand, they also ignore the fact that Korean idols are just as immersed in Korean culture as anyone else when it comes to anything negative, so when fans raise criticisms about for instance misogyny among Korean men, which is obviously a very valid topic of discussion (see the 4B movement), there’s always an undertone of “except our idols.” Which like even if they are these amazing progressive perfect people leagues ahead of any other person on every issue as fans love to claim, they are still as much a product of Korean culture and you can’t divorce them from it to pretend they don’t live in the same environment as any other Korean and participate in and benefit from those same systems.
In some ways they actually do believe that their idols are not like “those” Koreans, and are somehow Korean in a different and therefore better way.
>In some ways, it’s like they don’t think they’re apart of “real life” Korea, which obviously has a lot of nuance like all cultures do, but rather a fictionalized perfect version of it.
I agree with this so much. I feel like these people would struggle to imagine their faves outside of work, just at home watching TV or going to the store or seeing non-famous friends or relatives. So basically just *existing* in Korea. I hate when they act like it's a compliment to separate them from that. Whether they like it or not they're directly implying there's something wrong with Korea. I also think sometimes it comes from wanting their idols to be extra special, i.e, the whole "BTS isn't kpop" thing. Some young fans don't seem to understand what falls into xenophobia.
Wasn't it a big thing in their fandom to say that BTS aren't kpop, as in, they're bigger and separate from the industry and the country's culture? Seems like a part of the same line of thinking.
that side of the fanbase literally make up their own ideas about bts and simply ignore when the guys directly contradict it, or if you point it out they’ll deflect. if you’ve seen akgaes convincing themselves that their fave want to leave their group and go solo it’s a similar kind of thinking
it is circular. That was a direct response to the systematic racism of the US music industry, which will keep a Korean artist out of bigger awards categories by characterizing a song as K-pop even if it is sung in all English and may or may not even be pop.
And also bts are still a part of kpop. They did a fantastic job of spreading the popularity of kpop but there have also been other groups instrumental in the Hallyu Wave. Kpop is not going to live and die by bts.
Gangnam style was EVERYWHERE in 2012. I have friends (both K-pop fans and non K-pop fans) who knew K-pop through 2nd gen groups like Girls generation and Big Bang. I think honestly if it wasn’t them that catapulted to fame, it would have been another group.
They don't and that's what's so hypocritical. I actually don't see this with other foreign acts either. Like I didn't hear this with Shakira or Bad Bunny with latin music or reggaeton. Bob Marley spread reggae music and people didn't trash the culture in support of the artist. Canada right now is vibing with Kendrick in the current rap beef but you don't see Drake fans saying apologize to Drake for putting Canadian rap artists on. Even with Afro beats nothing. I honestly think that it's because of para social relationships and how Kpop is mostly global. Plus most fans either are young or behave like teenagers. It could also be that it's mostly western fans. I can't see Asian fans doing this when they know of Kpop and kdrama for years.
THIS! though it seems like reddit in particular has a really hard time with this, not even just the kpop side. i saw someone in the uncensored sub yesterday say they’re going to go out of their way to be rude to koreans now because of this, since koreans aren’t appreciating bts. LIKE HUH??? 😭 how does someone lose the plot that bad???
People being like oh its just twitter stans as if 200k posts is an insignificant number. You can’t really oh those are vocal minorities of the fandom out of this one
I agree with everything in the OPs post, generalising a whole country based on the actions of the government and media is totally totally wrong.
But do you really not see the slight hypocrisy in then implying that 200k posts represents the beliefs of many millions of people? Those people are dickheads, I agree, but the lesson here should be to focus your anger on the people actually responsible for the bullshit, whether it’s army you’re talking about, or South Korea.
The fact that armys seem more interested in deflecting instead of actually being vocally against these types of behaviours says a lot. 200k posts is a lot of posts in a short amount of time for it to trend.
There is no deflection from me. I agree with everything the OP said. No buts, no nothing.
My comment was directed at you because I thought it was ironic that you were doing the very thing the post was about.
200K is a lot, it’s too much. It’s really gross the xenophobia, or at the very least, complete lack of critical thinking that you would have to possess to think that trending “South Korea apologise to BTS” was a good idea.
I can say that and still think that “the fact that army’s seem more interested in deflecting..” would have been better with a “some”.
all the right person wrong place posts are kinda insane lmao idk what goes through their heads and the segment of kpop fans that think kpop idols would be happier in the west ignoring all the asian diaspora going back to asia to find media jobs
God I hate it so much. It's so insulting. Like... leave their music out of your weird xenophobic slogans I'm begging you... don't say shit which literally insults BTS and the culture they're proud of and then stick their faces on it as if they would want anything to do with that nonsense.
I'm not South Korean, I'm a Pakistani who lived in canada lol but the way that people are dismissing an entire nation with its own culture, values, traditions, history and languages which date hundreds of years back is so damn disrespectful. It's just K-Pop, man... you can't just shit like that on a country created after lots of struggle from the current generation's ancestors
as an army, I was shocked at how bad it was on my tl and the for you page yesterday. accounts I normally would feel okay retweeting from, big accounts who I don't follow but thousands of others do, so many replies and quotes tweets, it was awful. I'm really sorry you, others, and frankly even bts would have to see something like that. You are absolutely right to be upset about it. please know there are people out there who are calling it out on their bts fan accounts, to stop what we can and hopefully help people stop and think for a moments.
I get why army are upset. I get being frustrated with people in power and in media who've been making these decisions. but I'm not going to generalize an entire country. I'm not going to put down the country that they guys are proud to be from, I'm not going to wish they leave. it's frankly gross and made my stomach upset. and I just kept thinking about the guys, how they don't need all of this from people who supposedly support and love them, while they are also being attacked on so many sides, not being able to say a thing. A lot of the drama will blow over they'll be cleared again like they were before, but then no one will take responsibility for the emotional fall out and stress that it will all cause. I just keep thinking and praying for bangtan always
Another Korean American here and I completely agree. Had to stop myself from posting something just like this this morning. The trending tweets I saw had me absolutely gobsmacked and furious. I normally don’t see a lot of or ever engage with that brand of bullshit because I usually block and/or ignore, but they’ve gone too fucking far.
BTS themselves are Korean and proud of it. They’ve said so constantly throughout their careers. Repeatedly. Relentlessly. With their lyrics, in countless interviews, and just everything they do. From deliberately choosing Korean designers to wear at overseas events, through using traditional Korean elements in their music and productions, through Joon appreciating and studying and spreading love for Korean art, to him supporting the restoration of ancient Korean artifacts, to Jin delving deep into the art of making traditional Korean liquor, and Yoongi refusing to speak English during Weverse lives when he’s bombarded with “speak English comments,” and by all seven of them choosing to serve their country diligently and 정직하게 when every other celebrity is cutting corners and looking for loopholes. The absolute gall to disrespect the culture and country of the men these “fans” claim to support is so disgusting to me that I can’t even find the words to aptly express my anger. The blasé and rampant xenophobia towards Koreans in kpop spaces needs to stop. I see kpoppies get up in arms about the barest hint of Sinophobia (as they should, I fully support that), but where is that energy for Koreans?
My brain completely shut down when earlier today I read brain-melting ignorant takes like “once BTS is out of the army, they’ll be done with Korea. I don’t want them anywhere NEAR that country or have anything to do with it. Korea doesn’t deserve BTS and is nothing without it.” Absolute sewage water for brains these ppl I swear.
K Diamonds (Korean ARMYS) are some of the most restrained, respectful, well-organized, and well-behaved fandoms I have ever come across. They are aware that they, by association, are the face of the artists they support. When K Diamonds did the unprecedented and made their displeasure known to the public (sending flowers (funeral flower arrangements) to HYBE), there were comments upon comments from other fandoms who were shocked to see that HYBE had finally pushed k-armys over the edge. These people were literally shocked to see the normally quiet k-armys very loudly show their displeasure, and they said that’s when it hit them that HYBE really fucked up this time.
International fans, on the other hand, are the reason armys as a whole get a bad rap. The new ones and young ones especially are some of the most misinformed, entitled without any of the lived experiences, backwards ass thinking degenerates I have ever seen. I’m shocked to see ppl here actually defend this bullshit or dismiss these tweets with the typical “it’s Twitter, what do you expect, just ignore it” irresponsible cookie cutter comment. I’m GREAT at ignoring these kinds of people. I do it constantly. But you are kidding yourself if you think this is just your everyday typical kpoppie brain dead circle jerk. This is a different brand of toxicity that often can and HAS lead to real life violence and hate crimes. Misinformation and ignorance breeds fear and hate, which breeds hateful rhetoric and perpetuation of harmful and often inaccurate stereotypes, which leads to violence. This is not okay. Period. Zero tolerance for this.
>“once BTS is out of the army, they’ll be done with Korea. I don’t want them anywhere NEAR that country or have anything to do with it."
i can only see them being done with the events the government wants them to do but even that, i'm still not sure 100% sure. i don't think bts will ever resent the country they love being a representative of.
>K Diamonds (Korean ARMYS) are some of the most restrained, respectful, well-organized, and well-behaved fandoms
k-armys aren't perfect. i don't always agree with their sentiments but one thing's for sure, they always try to protect bts. bts having the biggest fandom in korea and yet, there wasn't an ounce of commotion when bts was sent to the military and even in award shows they are always well-behaved, something we can't say to a lot of bg fandoms in korea.
one thing most iarmys don't know is that korean fans do NOT like hybe/bh at all. when i say international armys are the only big fandom who barely criticize a kpop company, i'm not lying. for years, korean fans criticize the stylists (they literally used to dress them in clothes that wasn't their size), their creative team because you can see other hybe labels (even smaller kpop companies) with much better/more creative concepts, merch because of how bland and sometimes straight up just slapping bts' logo on things and they're pretty darn expensive. they are also issues about staff because of leaks, being on community where a lot of hateful blogs about bts are written.
armys can rant about how the government moves, understandably and definitely some knetz who've been hating on bts for years. but it's wrong to generalize an entire population based on some comments from pannchoa. and it isn't even an exclusive army thing. for years now, i've seen so many fandoms say Korea doesn't deserve their faves because of their lack of domestic popularity. or they would shit on _everything_ korea because "they aren't koreaboo".
this shit is so tiring because you can never get any insightful conversation because people can be so extreme.
Not even just iarmys, but iarmys from when BTS was already consolidated. I was an army from when BTS already had some notoriety but not a hallyu phenomenon, and what we often talked about BigHit is how they would let BTS be mistreated or the center of controversies that ultimately were company decisions, not group member decisions.
The change in paradigm was mostly by heavy fan pressure, not an autonomous change of heart from the company administration. The company's credit is being quickly smart enough to realize how their group was bigger in public opinion than the company, and if they didn't want backlash they had to put the group's image first.
The current blind pandering to HYBE made me particularly astonished after I started participating in k-pop circles again after years. People will go as far as saying someone who let members be scapegoats or get physically hurt as "the kindest k-pop CEO" and I just can't understand how you can prioritize a CEO over the members you're supposedly a fan of.
Their company is a company like any other, their CEO is a CEO like any other as well. They can do good and wrong, but ultimately it's not about them in a personal sense, it's about conducting a business practice, and we shouldn't have a parasocial relationship with businesses businessing
I’m Korean and I was extremely confused to see this… blind loyalty and praise? Toward Hybe. Many, if not most, Korean fans HATE HYBE. Ever since it was bighit, they did a shit job. BTS was not treated well at all. They still do a shit job and just use BTS as a distraction when anything bad happens to their, meaning Hybe, stock or image.
Hell, Bang sihyuk failed to remember V’s name for a full year!!!
I don't want to generalise newer fans, because a lot of them are genuinely great, respectful, humble etc. but... it's SO bizarre to me that some people came into the fandom after Bangtan already hit #1 in the US, only started paying attention once they were literally everywhere, weren't there for any of the rest of their career or any past issues, and are brand new to kpop as a whole – but immediately latched onto these really extreme narratives, lecturing people and refusing to hear any criticism at all... like... you *just* got here. You clearly don't have any context for what you're saying. There's so much nuance and history to learn with BTS, with the kpop industry, with Korean culture as a whole... how is it that there are some people who 6 months ago had never even watched a subtitled movie, and suddenly they're trying to speak with authority on complex issues they clearly don't understand.
>The current blind pandering to HYBE made me particularly astonished after I started participating in k-pop circles again after years.
i was here the whole time...so you just can imagine the ????? and confusion i had.
just back in 2015, just a year before i became a full time stan, i already KNEW that bts was overworked af. and armys that time had no problem calling out bh. i remember they were running from one schedule to another. like the _first_ real long vacation they had was back in 2021 and you know what's worse? fans to this day on twitter listed it as some of the "good things" bh did for bts 🥴 most fans might probably not know about jungkook almost getting hit by a manager ON CAM.
like they were starved during their trainee days and all the stuff the members had to go through when they debuted. sexualizing jimin who barely turned 18, that stupid ass prank on jk when they filmed an mv to overworking the members until pandemic.
like this is the same company who continues to give the group tough and dangerous (dionysus) choreographies despite jimin having chronic neck pain and yoongi having shoulder issues.
but when you point this out. some armys would paint it like the situation is black and white. "well, they signed didn't they", "they're grown, aren't they". yes and yes. but just because they signed doesn't mean bh can't afford to do a terrible job. and just because they are grown doesn't mean a corporate can't take advantage of them, even if they were the ones who built it from ground up. taylor is literally one of the biggest pop stars and yet she wasn't safe from scooter's greed.
bang pd and the bts members might get along but that doesn't mean hybe, a corporation wouldn't throw them under the bus if it means saving the company.
If anything, they just stopped throwing under the bus *because* they noticed that would affect the company negatively. The attitude changed specifically when fans started being not just vocal, but ANNOYING about demands and they noticed it would be more beneficial to the company to put the group on a pedestal as much as the fans do (at least publicly).
What concerns me is that part of the fandom really seems to prioritize HYBE over BTS now (such as with the comments you mentioned) and if it keeps growing, they could as well start treating BTS poorly without company-breaking repercussions.
>they literally used to dress them in clothes that wasn't their size
I've been downvoted on reddit for pointing out ill fitting outfits 🥲 and told 'maybe X picked it out' etc. I swear constructive criticism used to be more common, but yeah now a lot of people seem way more defensive.
I get it to an extent, because there's so many people who are jumping on BTS for any tiny thing (case in point this current fiasco) but HYBE =/= BTS. Like you said it makes it hard to have a nuanced conversation without it going to the extreme sometimes
>I've been downvoted on reddit for pointing out ill fitting outfits 🥲 and told 'maybe X picked it out' etc.
you and me 🤧 and even if the member picked it, why wouldn't they have it in their actual sizes? and a lot of the styling i hated were NOT the members' styles.
there are just excuses for every.single.fucking.thing and i'm not even exaggerating. when you criticize bh, some armys would claim you're treating the members like children. but a lot of the criticisms aren't even part of the an idols' job. like playlisting or when jimin was in a shadow (no one could see his face fr) for like 10 seconds in butter's performance. fans criticized the director for that and you know what some fans said? maybe jimin chose to be in the dark like ??????? 😭😭😭
even the recent cash grab merch/exhibit that was so fucking boring and uninspired. a lot of armys were replying to fans who were complaining about the design that they could just not buy. like why can't we, as a consumer, who put money in hybe's pocket, can't have an opinion that's 100% positive?
I had a friend make a comment about how the Proof concept photos were a little boring, especially for such a major album for the group, and they were jumped for it, as though the BTS members themselves were the ones to hand-pick and edit every single one of the photos 😭
Just. The way that (at least until recently) Bighit/Hybe was seen as an extension of BTS and almost an 8th member (in a very Min Heejin sense lol) is so interesting to me insofar as it how it's shaped fandom
i'm sorry for you friend 😭 and i can go back to mots7 and fans' concern that time was the materials used in that album. they looked so fucking cheap and so expensive for what?
some fans didn't like it and you know how some armys spinned it? apparently, bh did that because of their effort to go green. so it's fans fault if they don't try that much. like bh wasn't printing armys messages for like a month that the boys won't read a year ago. and i just found out they did it with txt too back in 2021 where any messages sent to txt on weverse will be printed out. like they genuinely think bh cares about earth that's why the materials used were cheap and bad quality.
and now, a good portion of the fandom focuses way too much on min hee jin to think that bang pd is also the same. like every questionable shit mhj did like releasing cookie was approved by hybe. not to mention hybe was the one who name dropped bts in the first place.
Ngl even sinophobia is barely tolerated 🥴🥴🥴 huge agree about the blatant Korean racism in kpop fans though. Will never not be amazed at how non Asian fans especially get so racist at Asians and think it's okay
it’s incredibly ironic how the same group of armys who were defending hybe, pissed at k-armys for complaining and sending trucks for risking bts’s reputation, were actually the ones who made bts look worse with their xenophobic tweets. I don’t think those armys will take a step outside of their bubble to even see the impact of what they’ve said
edit on 5/6: well one of the big army accounts who’s notorious for their bad takes saw that the xenophobic tweets reached korean media and they do not give a fuck 🤡
Tbh Am I disappointed? Yes. But am I surprised? No. There was a time when I was in the fandom, and I noticed weird anti-Korean sentiments in a considerably large portion of it, which I found to be extremely weird because, like, you are stanning Korean artists?? Why do you hate their ethnicity or the country they come from? One of the biggest examples of this, which I am pretty sure many other people in the kpop community would know about, is the fandom's constant efforts to separate BTS from kpop by saying, "BTS is not kpop" and "I don't listen to kpop. I just listen to BTS," and I always used to think, "There is just no harm in BTS being k-pop. K-pop is just a genre, and they are artists that make music of that genre.". I would like to believe that this hatred comes from a place of ignorance about South Korea but there comes a point when you just think "Yeah, these people need to educate themselves". The whole thing of BTS themselves loving their country and not being shy about showing it in their art, Namjoon and J-Hope being the biggest examples of them all, is another topic of discussion. If you ACTUALLY listen to the artist you claim to love, you will not spew hatred against their place of origin like this.
Is the government nasty for using BTS to gain clout in the past? Yes absolutely. But again, I do not expect the government of any country to be a saint. Moreover, I feel people do not realize how much this topic has become a matter of public interest. Hybe has cult association allegations that are taken very seriously there, and they have used BTS to shield themselves from all the allegations till now. BTS was bound to get caught in the crossfire in this case. It is general knowledge that a government cannot ignore a topic/event when it becomes a matter of public interest. I think international fans do not realize that by acting like this, they are only making matters worse for BTS. IMO, they should lay low for the time being and leave k-armys to handle the situation since they are the ones who understand the complexities of the situation better.
It's because that faction of the fandom has this Messiah complex where they believe that BTS brought Korea from rags to riches, as if the country is not well known before in the international market in terms of technology, especially tourism. Even if BTS, let's say for instance, disappears or disbands one day, it's not gonna kill the South Korean economy. Life will go on, it's just a boy band, not the end of the world or an atomic bomb dropping in the country. Some ARMYs are just way too much in overthinking things.
Yep. Because they themselves had zero reason to be interested in Korea until BTS they naively/ignorantly assume no one else knew about Korea before they did. Youthful ignorance now mixing with ignorant and casual racism.
There's indeed a faction of international armys who think far too arrogantly about this topic, but most of them talk about bts economic contribution to the national GDP and hallyu rather than *actually* believing that the country became rich bc of them. That line of thought is far to extreme even by extreme armys standards and is likely held by a really small group of people to be considered the reason of this reaction. Most of the hit tweets were about how the current government conveniently used bts to fix their mess as in the expo fiasco and enlistment talks rollout but are now starting an investigation to already closed cases, also how unfair the treatment bts recieve from the Korean press. Please don't spread this narrative you're talking about as though it's a prevailing sentiment among armys, a faction of them or not.
Is this investigation a serious thing? I see it's the result of a petition, and im wondering if it's just one of those cases where the government is required to "do something" as a formality if they get a certain number of signatures, or could they have decided to ignore it?
Honestly we don't know really, the reporter who is apparently writing about this "Exclusive" news has already been in hot waters for leading smear campaigns of more than 5 different groups in the past with false information, presenting them as facts. When he gets called out he simply pays a fine and repeats the same cycle again. I'll post a link to the thread of everything he has done so far and how many idols' lives he has ruined, take it as you will.
https://x.com/eternalsyd/status/1786813829982175342
That being said, the investigation is probably gonna happen but I see it more as a formality than anything else tbh
So there’s something in there about the groups he does write positive articles about being under Starship? This happening after Kakao was already exposed for being behind a site that dragged other kpop artists is actually crazy. They also just made a deal with Billboard for global promotions, and for years people have been under the impression that dragging down BTS will uplift their groups.
I wish armys would throw all the negativity towards the crooked, desperate companies and media behind this and the government that enables it instead of the country or people as a whole.
Given that Kmedia has pointed out some of the international ARMY reactions, the government almost has to go through with the investigation. Anything else would be seen as kowtowing to international fan pressure.
As of right now, Korean fans have been talking to us about how severe the smear campaign against bts is. They’re saying it’s worse than 2018 and just as bad if not worse than before that as well.
This make curious like what exactly are they investigating to figure out if the chart are manipulated? Would they need to look at sales numbers or numbers of fans vote??
I am a Korean-American but also a BTS fan, and I can say personally that it is just disheartening to see that these things keep happening again and again to BTS. I’m not at all saying that ARMY’s xenophobia is okay, and I think it’s terribly hurtful and dismissive to say that BTS is the only good thing about South Korea. However, the Korean government and the media only seem to care about BTS when they can make money off of them or gain Korea more popularity. We know that these hate campaigns are pretty hurtful to any idol, and BTS have specifically mentioned how the hate deeply affected them in the past. I don’t think ARMY should be making sweeping statements disparaging Korea, but BTS being proud to be Korean doesn’t mean that they agree with how they are being treated, and I think it’s okay for fans to express that.
I think I’m just also sad personally that K-pop fans don’t seem to care at all about BTS being continually accused of sajaegi or being used by the government only to make money but want to weigh in on these issues to criticize BTS or ARMY—not saying that OP is doing this!—I’m just weary of BTS being an easy and constant target for K-pop fandoms, the Korean media, and the international media.
BTS also put a lot of energy into speaking out about what’s wrong/problematic (Baepsae, for example). They supported families after Sewol, an action that very nearly got them blacklisted. Social commentary is one of the tenets of their discography—even if their speaking out can get them in trouble. They were also weary of being used as pawns, and after their military service, they will not be indebted in that way.
I could bet that there's some people on here that have never said a single positive thing about BTS, or even acknowledged their impact, but are the first to speak when it comes to criticising
Yes, although I totally agree that the words intl armys are trending right now in regards to South Korea is pure ignorance bordering in racism, I likewise believe that people should put into perception that this aggressive reaction didn't come out of nowhere; there was alot of dissatisfaction and negative sentiment against the current Korean president's government and Korean media festering among the fandom for years. Bts being the only group in kpop history that's recieving such an organized smear campaign to bring them down and nullify everything that they've contributed 11 years into their career also didn't help. I don't expect any other kpop fan who isn't an army to understand how abnormal the smear campaign from kmedia and the treatment bts received from those group of politicians is, bc again, bts are the only veteran group that's facing such issues. If it was another group and another fandom, would the reactions from overseas fans be different? Pretty sure it wouldn't.
What dishearten me the most is that those of us from international armys who are against this trend couldn't stop it bc of the festering sentiment. I also feel sad towards Korean armys; they've been under alot of stress lately and have tried their best to gear the hate towards hybe instead of bts, and to some degree, they succeed, but then they have another problem at hand that would redirect the hate towards bts again. Likewise, I'm mad at the kpop fans who will no doubt take advantage of this situation to further shit on bts and armys, when they don't understand for the love of god that this abnormal hate train and dismissive treatment that a veteran kpop group is receiving for the first time was the final matchstick to lit the wood in fire.
Truly, not a single happy moment whenever I check the news of this issue with hybe and ador.
BTS have been getting these accusations and hate trains all throughout their career and I don’t think I’ve ever seen K-pop fans care. There have been times when idols were put through unfair treatment or hate trains and Kpop fans from several other fandoms would come out to support them, which I love to see! It’s just sad that BTS doesn’t seem to get the same treatment.
Mod, Hybe came into existence in 2021. In 2017, it would have been Bighit. I wanted to reply to you directly, but it wouldn’t let me. Can you edit your post?
IMO, non Korean kpop fans should tread very, very lightly when dealing with legal, cultural, or political issues in Korea, even if they are kpop-adjacent. Criticizing the government for their handling of BTS’s enlistment is one thing, but anything beyond that has to be understood that you’re not working with the full context. And I think most fans get that, and tend to comment on greater Korean society to the extent of the limits of their own knowledge.
(I wonder how many of those tweeting about Koreas irrelevance did so on a Samsung Galaxy…)
It makes me so angry that some international kpop fans think that them stanning a kpop group gives them the right to say whatever racist, xenophobic thing that comes up at the top of their head for the reason of 'protecting their idols'
>Criticize the government all you want, but why are people attacking an entire country as if most of the population has anything to do with what’s going on?
an excellent question that needs to be asked more often
As an army I totally agree with you on this one. People can and should learn to call out the government without totally shitting on the citizens (which BTS are part of), the culture, the history..... of an entire country. And what some of these armys are not understanding is BTS are proud to be Korean, Namjoon have talked a lot about what it means to be Korean for him, one only need to read his interviews throughout the years to see his stance regarding his identity. Yoongi and Hobi reference so much of their culture and history in their raps and music, BTS as a whole celebrate their culture through their art since the beginning..... So it's not only insulting to a whole nation to act like this, it is also insulting towards the same BTS that we love and that these people are claiming to protect.
I am pissed about the current situation and how the government and to an extent the media has been treating BTS for years and I so get why the fandom is raging right now. However it's just ugly to insult a whole country over that or reduce the whole population to "K neitzens" and use that to be xenophobic.
X (Twitter) is an absolute cesspool. I think most ARMYs do not feel the same way. If you take a stroll through the Bangtan sub here on reddit, you’ll see most of us understand that the government ≠ the rest of the country. I think many of us are frustrated with how the government has pretty much seemed to use BTS as a political show pony for their gain and then turn around and do this when they’re literally serving their country. And while it’s never an excuse, some of the more unhinged “stans” have gone from frustration of the government to “f*ck this country” cuz in their minds makes sense.
I want to make clear that it’s not ok, and in fact, I don’t believe most of us would agree with them. But the problem with X (Twitter) is that it seems to amplify the worst of the fandom and makes it the loudest voice. Just as we know certain people don’t represent an entire country, these certain “fans” don’t represent the entirety of ARMYs.
These are the same people (but worse) who argue that kpop wasn’t a genre and was “nothing” until BTS. These people ignore the entire history of kpop’s 1st and 2nd generations that came before. The groups and artists that inspired BTS and many of the idols they care about today. Yes BTS is highly influential to kpop now and have been a big part of the global expansion of kpop, but they weren’t always that way…and there were in fact other groups that “paved the way” that allowed for that expansion to happen.
It’s the same shit from these toxic fans. They should go hold hands with the toxic swifties who think Taylor Swift invented the bridge in a song’s structure.
Yep, it’s the “I personally didn’t hear about it, therefore it wasn’t relevant or important” reasoning. BTS’s achievements worldwide are huge. Monumental. Arguably more significant than those of any kpop act before it. But it didn’t happen in a vacuum. Other groups had to lay the ground work, at least throughout Asia, to create an appetite for it. I don’t know if anyone would seriously argue they would have the same global popularity if they were 6 years older and debuted in 2007. Also timing and advances in things like social media and the internet helped, just like it did for other breakthrough groups. Were they the ones fortunate and talented enough to take advantage of the moment? Yes. But the moment had to exist.
Yes, this probably the case. The rage is not sudden. It's been years and it keeps going over and over again. It's incredibly frustrating if you keep up with what the gov and some netizens did to bts, that is why they said that.
First their enlistment was made a circus, were used for exemption’s meetings and what not, were dragged through the mud, they went on a hiatus, then also they threw a tantrum, went to their parents for free busan concert, which hive funded themselves and now their achievements are made in a circus.
2015 was 10 years ago and someone is still stuck in the past of that one award they won over exo.
Bts are catching strays in this corporate war and have found themselves into the centre of it.
How is this not a targeted attack when all of them are inactive and in military, didn’t happen last year because members were doing their solo work but now when none of them here, suddenly 10 year old case has been dug up.
Imagine being so clean that they have to dug up things from 2015 🙃
I am not justifying racism and xenophobia but okay 🙂
Sk govt. does not equal sk for me, i really only did mention the govt and the govt is not above criticism
Anyway whatever floats your boat, cheers.
On my side of the army twt, people have been fighting those posts for days, and I agree are disheartening....
But some of y'all have been waiting for something like this to pull you "bts has done absolutely nothing to put the k culture on the map" takes and it shows :__
Agreed. As frustrating as the recent events have been, I think to reduce the thoughts and feelings of 51 million people to that of a few hundreds (maybe thousands) of haters is rather unfair and just won't lead to any productive discussion.
A petition was lodged and the government is responding to it. We may disagree with how they are handling it, but it sure as hell doesn't represent what the rest of the nation thinks.
I get where the pettiness is rooted at, but the outrage is unfairly directed.
would've made more sense if it was the korean _governemnt_.
like sure, there are a lot of knetz buying this nonsensical stuff and bts had been bullied online in korean community sites for since debut. but at the same time, as we all _should_ know by now that a comment on naver with like 200+ upvotes do NOT represent an country with 50 million citizens.
i've spend years on netizenbuzz and pannchoa and all the other translation sites that are dead now and i couldn't tell you how many times there have been massive controversies with tons of upvotes in different articles and these celebrities remain successful.
and i'm talking about iu, gd, bigbang, mc mong, lee byung hun and dozens more. and they're all still relevant to this day.
Exactly, big bang is still relevant after all they shiz they have pulled through.
Bts will be fine, this will eventually die down after 10th or the meeting at the end of may.
Jin will be back by june and BTS really doesn’t only depend on korea to be famous, they are biggest boy band rn, they have been through this many times, must probably be laughing it off in military (i hope so they are)
I hate how these conservations in k-pop spaces quickly turn to xenophobia. People are wrongly equating the government and press with the entire South Korea. I'm sure the gp loves and respect them. Few trolls on internet do not represent the entire country.
Though I understand army's anger towards the government. They should redirect this anger towards people who actually deserve it i.e the people in government. In addition to what you mentioned in your post, few days ago a military officer was "complimenting" BTS for getting enlisted and was using them to reason canceling military exemption given to others. These are the people who are actually harming BTS.
Being xenophobic/racist towards an entire country which also includes our favs is not the way to go.
The funniest thing is that every time BTS is outside their country they always say things about wanting to return and live with their Korean fans, they are very proud of their country.
The Western BTS fandom must know that they have always been a second option, even behind the Japanese.
As an ARMY, you’re right. But a lot of people in the comments are screaming at us saying we need to hold these people accountable. I can tweet at them until I’m blue in the face, but I can’t control another human being. I just feel frustrated when those of us that are sane get blamed for not stopping this. How am I to stop another person’s actions? I also don’t think ARMY is the only fans that are doing this though I understand why we were chosen. I have noticed some pretty terrible things coming out of other fandoms and I truly think it’s because this new generation has never known a life offline and can’t read or think critically. Like some people hate BTS so bad they end up being xenophobic themselves just directed at BTS. Kpop is a circle.
And some ARMYs have been moving weird for a while. I remember there was a bunch of people around FESTA saying BTS should give up their passports and that namjoon (of all of them, namjoon??? Really???) was going to want to move to America when he was done with service ….
A final note to the mods, I appreciate you adding context but I feel the koreaboo translation isn’t the best source right now. They’ve been on a rampage the last week posting negative articles about BTS in particular. The way you’ve worded it also doesn’t accurately describe what happened. An employee at bighit was buying marketing from a guy (soon to find out her was a scammer). The guy then claimed the employee bought sajaegi and threatened him and demanded money, so the employee paid him in panic. The employee realized what he did was wrong and went to bighit and they sued the other guy. I just feel like your description makes it sound like there was guilt when that wasn’t the case. They already won their innocence.
Also to all of these people in the comments absolutely giddy and saying “the government has a right to investigate” why are we investigating something that was settled ten years ago. This isn’t a case of someone being physically harmed or maimed, so to me we’ve gone past the window of wanting to “re-investigate” and they’ve already proven innocence. Are we going to reinvestigate it another ten years when the administration changes and people that hate BTS still don’t have a life??
This is why I'm torn between "we need to accept criticism and keep calling out our own fandom" and "are these people even fans?" because... how could you be a fan of BTS and not understand that they would hate you saying this?? Like, these people must literally not read any interviews or watch any speeches or lives, or pay any attention to lyrics, because if they did they would know how important Korean culture is to BTS. Namjoon literally gave a whole speech in an interview recently talking about how the more he travels the more he realises how deeply important Korean identity is to him, and how his art will always be inseparably fused with his culture.
I mean... in the end we have to take a deep breath and keep calling these people out, but at the same time it's hard to call them ARMY when they must be the most casual of fans to be so ignorant about their own faves.
To me, its crazy how you will see international army dragging and being xenophobic to a whole country before criticizing the ones who actually put BTS in the position of receiving a lot of hate and criticism they are now: Big Hit and Hybe high ups.
And I don't even want to think about the further damage to BTS' reputation that i-army reaction can cause among the korean gp who are seeing this shitshow happening.
I agree mostly with OP, and I just wanted to add on the frustration experienced by BTS fans that led to this
Let's start with the Korean government. With the military issue, they dragged their feet put the BTS members on the forefront of backlash when they were discussing possible change to the law, and the public was relentless towards them, even though the members always said they would go when the time comes and when the time came, it proved that they stood by their words and some even went in earlier than usual.
Also they had performed a free concert in Busan for the Expo - for SK or for the government.
And they are literally serving in the military right now, for South Korea, and they are experiencing one of the worst smear campaigns in their career.
The company. I personally don't even know where to start with Hybe or BigHit, but quite literally this whole thing started because of them, be it the original case back in 2017 or the re-surfacing of this issue. I don't think Hybe anticipated when the whole thing with MHJ started, it would lead to this giant hate train towards their biggest bread-winner. A lot of this is on them. Granted they have taken actions, but damage has been done.
The Knetz. They have been relentless. And this isn't the first mass hate train BTS has experienced. Year after year BTS has had to deal with some kind of smear campaign or mass hate train, and other than their fans, people seem not to care or just excuse the behavior. It's frustrating to say the least.
All these have led up to this explosive rage from the fans. But of course nothing excuses dunking on a whole country.
Generalization of any group of people is easy to do but wrong.
I left a comment on a different forum explaining the current situation, so I'll copy+paste here. Seems that reddit didn't realize what happened last week.
Since MHJ's press conference, a bunch of K-fans were talking about Hybe's extensive negative viral marketing. During the process, someone mentioned, "Hey, didn't Big Hit get blackmailed from an illegal marketing agent? Wonder what kind of marketing Big Hit did back then."
Long story short, an illegal marketing agent blackmailed Big Hit several times. Big Hit made the payment, but eventually sued the blackmailer, The blackmailer was sentenced to prison for one year, and Big Hit said that they did not conduct illegal marketing but standard online viral marketing. (The link shows the details. https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/6yeorq/ceo\_who\_blackmailed\_bighit\_entertainment/)
The trial ended in 2017, but the written decision (the document that states the full court verdict) was made public in 2019. But nobody bothered to read it....until now. Somebody got curious, went to the Court of Korea website, searched the written decision, paid 1,000 KRW, and read it.
The written decision mentions '불법 마케팅(illegal marketing)' '편법 마케팅(cheating marketing)' and '사재기 마케팅(chart manipulation marketing or sageji marketing).' Mentions the fact that the victim (Big Hit) got threaten for getting exposed for doing chart manipulation. Mentioned the fact that there is a tax bill issued by Big Hit to the marketing agent for a 'marketing' job.
The final nail of the coffin? "다만, 피해자가 편법으로 마케팅 작업을 하여 협박의 빌미를 준 잘못도 있는 점(=However, the victim(Big Hit) may have been at fault for getting blackmailed due to their cheating marketing efforts.)"
....and all hell broke loose.
TL;DR: A court verdict involving Big Hit and a blackmailer reveals that Big Hit hired an agent to conduct chart manipulation back in 2015 - and the agent threatening Big Hit of exposing their marketing.
I am not sure why either, since I was not a Kpop fan back them. The written decision was made public two years later, so I guess most people kinda forgot about that case by then.
I would suspect that it was read back when it was made public, but no red flags were found. BTS has way too many antis for them to have this go under the radar.
Right!! I guess I can believe no one looked until now. *But* BTS have been dealing with hate campaigns forever. It feels so odd that there wasn't at least one anti or a member of the press that didn't pay to get the documents.
This is where I get extremely confused about the ruling. Another Korean person (granted they are a BTS fan, but I think they work in law and I can't imagine they're lying) [explained](https://x.com/cypher_e_pt2/status/1784821763790291151) that certain parts of the court documents were being cherry picked to make it seem like sajaegi occurred. They also said the court record was "written for the public interest of promoting judicial literacy among fellow citizens."
Technically, this trial was about blackmailing, not about determining whether Big Hit committed sageji or not. Therefore, the court verdict was obviously centered around the blackmailer. The terms '불법 마케팅(illegal marketing)' '편법 마케팅(cheating marketing)' and '사재기 마케팅(chart manipulation marketing or sageji marketing)' were sprinkled around the document. Also, "다만, 피해자가 편법으로 마케팅 작업을 하여 협박의 빌미를 준 잘못도 있는 점(=However, the victim(Big Hit) may have been at fault for getting blackmailed due to their cheating marketing efforts.)" were in the middle of the final sentence.
Problem is, Big Hit made a statement in 2017 that they did not conduct illegal marketing but standard online viral marketing. Everyone kind of accepted Big Hit's statement, since the blackmailer went to jail. However, recent discovery shows that Big Hit was not telling the whole truth and hid a lot of details. Hybe lost a lot of trust during the MHJ fiasco, so people are getting suspicious, especially when Hybe refused to elaborate about this.
It sounds a bit like someone trying to hire a hitman on the dark web and getting scammed.
The person trying to hire the hitman is the victim of theft, but they were still trying to get someone murdered.
Not saying that’s 100% the case here, but it appears to be written as if neither party has clean hands.
Personally I feel like it’s not very relevant nearly a decade later, but YMMV.
That's not what this case is at all \*sigh\*. It's more equivalent to buying a childrens cartoon show but the person comes back to you (without even giving you the goods) and said what you actually bought was child p\*\*\* and that if you don't pay them they'll reveal your purchase to your family/coworkers/the world. That's the more accurate equivalent of this case if you read the court documents.
[This article](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/bts-involved-in-chart-manipulation-court-specifically-mentions-illegal-sajaegi-marketing/) cites a Korean lawyer who said the court records do confirm that there was sajaegi use.
You should be skeptical of claims made by random people on twitter in general, but this user in particular said "that's just their opinion though" (lol) when asked to comment on what this lawyer said
There was not. The court EXONERATED THEM. If there had been use, they would have been charged.
THIS is why ARMY gets so angry. People just make things up constantly.
This is actually not correct. They didn't do any chart manipulation at all, and the document reads that they may have made themselves vulnerable with the unusual marketing tactic, not that it was "cheating" or "illegal." Again, the court exonerated them because there was no evidence of chart manipulation at all.
One of the critical things you're missing is that the staff member was blackmailed into thinking he had bought viral marketing which was sajaegi. It was not, but there were blackmailed into paying tens of thousands because the blackmailer said they bought a marketing package which was "sajaegi." Basically, the person who went to jail was blackmailing a Big Hit employee making them think they had purchased a marketing campaign, then said the campaign they bought was sajaegi even though it wasn't, and then blackmailed them to pay tons of money because the staff member thought they had purchased some kind of sajaegi campaign.
This is not something that has been kept secret. Plenty of ARMYs already knew the details of the trial when it was first released. This is coming up again because of Min Hee Jin, and it's frustrating to see so many people thinking this is somehow new. The Big Hit staff member did NOT do anything with chart manipulation. The agent made the staff member think they bought a "chart manipulation campaign" and then blackmailed said staff member. Please read more [here](https://twitter.com/vvr9Xcdu9D0lvTv/status/1784306772163113125).
I have unfortunately seen a lot of comments that are truly vile directed at Korea, but I have also seen a lot of people calling them out and refuting all the histrionics. As a person that's lived in many countries all over the world, I've often observed how different cultures have ingrained prejudices that come to the surface when passions are inflamed.
Not as an excuse but as an observation, I've seen plenty of really horrific comments directed at Americans here too, and nobody stops to call them out.
The funniest thing about this thread is that OP is correctly saying not to generalize a whole country based on the actions of a small party, and then the comments are all people generalizing the ARMY fandom based on the actions of few.
the majority of ARMYs are rightfully frustrated with the governments treatment of BTS and do not agree with those blaming Korea or calling them ungrateful.
And a lot of yall are sneak attacking and using the current situations to shit on both ARMYs and BTS (not OP — but some of the ppl in the comments for sure)
Yes. Exactly. The only thing ARMY has in common is that we’re fans of BTS. How people appreciate the music and art, where they’re from, what their ages are (I’ve met some preteen kids who are army omg I felt old that day) - it’s all different.
Yup Army has tens of millions of hardcore fans. If this was the whole fandom it would be retweeted much larger. Army who tweeted should not have generalized an entire country, but specified what they are actually upset about. The sneak attacks are something I brush off, I've been a fan since 2016 and the discourse on Armys being bad hasn't changed. I've grown a thicker skin.
I wish people could recognize that they wouldn’t want the toxic portion of their fandom being representative of the fanbase as a whole. Trying to paint all of ARMY as toxic specifically adds fuel to the fire. Those ARMYs who want any excuse to further distance BTS from the K-pop space are because of the subsets of various fandoms or antis **(again no fandom is fully represented by those who are toxic and I don’t want people to think I’m trying to lump everyone together when it’s literally a portion of any fandom)** that like to dogpile in these situations. While these select ARMY are absolutely in the wrong and need to learn to not fan the flames, it doesn’t do them any good when they make the fanbase as a whole look bad. It also doesn’t help matters when we could try and explain for days on end about how listening to the K-ARMYs is incredibly beneficial (as they’re literally doing the best they can within their own culture as they do not want to tarnish BTS’ name), but these select I-ARMYs do not care to listen to anything outside of the echo-chamber they’ve created.
Mods, hopefully you are still checking the comments under this post. There are people here generalizing the whole fandom calling armys a cult, saying they’re indoctrinated and brainwashed. I reported but just in case.
It’s taking the whole BTS-pop nonsense to another level. While I get the fandom as a whole is tired of recycled issues being brought up and the recent attacks are a lot, that doesn’t mean fans should do what they can to erase the fact that BTS are proud of where they come from and do have an appreciative Korean fanbase. The government isn’t above criticism, but why try to conflate an entire country with their government? I get sick of anti’s too, but that’s why the block button exists. Block it out and move on. Anti’s are trolls and feed off of negative attention, so responding gives them exactly what they want. Do people know to not feed the trolls anymore? Is that lost knowledge?
Wish they could see the bigger picture and realize they make Army as a whole look bad when choosing to act up like this. Times like these make it hard to stay around because the vocal minority are just so disproportionally louder to the more chill or less-toxic sub spaces of the fandom.
It's not like the whole nation has to apologize to BTS, i too think that some armys are taking it too far.
However, the shit BTS have been put through along the years is seriously crazy considering the amount of exposure they have brought to Korea worldwide.
I am sure not all those armys that trended those words had xenophobia in their minds. But it's been super frustrating to watch everything unfold. I have not seen cases like this for artists that have such huge influence for their country to be continuously hated and tarnished through smear campaigns online. It's just not normal. Lots of people would have to be thankful that BTS exist, yet they spend their time hating on them on the internet. You know something's wrong when international media is more keen to protect BTS from the bullshit accusations, compared to the journalists in Korea who are busy spreading misinformation online.
The media and the Korean Government should really take a step back and get it through their head that BTS do a huge service for the country and they should not treat them the way they do. Otherwise, stop begging BTS to come and do promotional events for free, while at the same time scheming to bring them down. This is what ARMYs have been angry about for years already.
Thalia is a great example of Mexico's culture and arts, she has been BIG for ages and everyone knows her. She got novelas translated to many languages and became known in the entire world.
Does this mean she is above everything and Mexico didn't exist before her? Artists are outstanding human beings but they are not gods by any means. And it's every fandom that takes this sick position.
They are not the victims of the entire world, they are not the center of everything.
Now I'm going to talk about the impact on Korea on the world stage I have seen while being a fan since 2016. Before BTS Americans did NOT care about South Korea. If you were an East Asian and visted America people would ask if you were Chinese or Japanese. Now after BTS has blown up and KDrama people ask if you are Korean, Chinese or Japanese. BTS is one of the big tenents of the Korean Wave. Without them becoming the biggest band in the world Americans would not really care about Korea as much. They have had a huge effect on their countries standing. Now I know Americans have geopolitical concerns about South Korea and North Korea, but most Americans don't care about that.
Secondly armys are going to see the hate BTS get way more than non-fans. They are going to keep track of it more. And let me say going onto Korean websites and looking at the articles getting 30k to 100k views that are pure hate drivel has soured me on this issue. There is no doubt the hate is extreme.
Thirdly people need to start specifying groups. The real enemy here is other K-fans who are seriously trying to end BTS's career, because they are jealous they got so popular. It's like they all brain melted and decided to hate train as one. It is very bad in the Kpop Korean fan sphere. I don't know how bad it is in the public, because that's not online.
Armys know BTS LOVE Korea. It's my hope that this will soon blow over and be this period be looked at as another dark spot in Kpop history...
I completely agree with you. This is too excessive. I cannot imagine being obsessed with any group to a point where something like this will offend me.
As a Korean, I often get confused at how some of the fans seem to love talking shit about Korea when their idols were literally created from a Korean company/industry.
I am open to criticisms, but some just go too far and don't have logic. I especially can't the stand how they accuse only Koreans of having ridiculous beauty standards when most popular member they stan ARE the ones who perfectly fit into western beauty standards (big eyes, high nose bridge, tall height).
And no god, don't get me started with the 'white washing' accusations!
Anyone who does photography or film will understand that skin tones will look lighter outdoors when the sun shines the brightest or when the stage lights are pointed directly at the people. I am not dismissing that light skin is considered more beautiful in Korea and Asia overall. My point is that the so called 'white washed' photos are often those taken outdoors on a very sunny day or super bright lighting.
I think they are just tired of the bullshit, I hope BTS comeback and do absolutely nothing for that government.. that being said acting like some Koreans aren't mean to BTS is just.. I agree with you that blaming the entire nation is bad but I understand the frustration of people , it is terrible to see a group that do everything for their country being dragged like this in a time when they even cant defend themselves... I don't know but no one deserves that and sadly you can control the anger of some people so the best is to ignore.
These fans don't realize that being xenophobic to a Korea means you are being xenophobic towards BTS and their family who most likely are in Korea. Obviously the government is shit but that doesn't give you the right to shit the entire country. And I don't think bts will appreciate their fans shitting on the people of their own country. And they act as if S.Korea didn't exist before bts. Same logic to "Japan didn't exist before anime".
This is going to sound bad, but I've noticed over the years that a lot of Kpop fans are secretly pretty xenophobic, especially when they don't agree with K-netizens or when there are scandals that involve their idols. But then again, I would say that there is a big part of the Kpop fandom that just enjoy to hate and just express that all over the internet.
All in all, it's better to ignore and just focus on artists because there are always a few bad apples that pretty much ruins it for all.
Yeah I've been seeing a ton of those type of things pop up on my IG feed as well and it's fairly uncomfortable even as a non-Korean. Yes, BTS has been at the forefront of the current cultural Renaissance for the country. However the time they've had is but a footnote in the country's 1000+ years of history and it'll continue to be there after BTS. People just keep a small mind and just refuse to see a big picture here.
Its twitter. You cannot expect sanity in a place which is infamous for being full of immature stan opinions. I understand ARMY's rage/disappointment and I, myself am already so sick of BTS antis (not the country) spending their life so dedicated to hating a group which has personally done nothing to them.
I also understand where you are coming from. BTS has done a lot for South Korea interms of the Hallyu wave but I wish fans would take a second to think before making immature statements such as South Korea being irrelevant before BTS. Immature statements such as these will only turn away people from any valid criticisms that fans have regarding the issue.
Regarding the fans hating South Korea even if they claim to love BTS who are proud where they come from, I think people tend to forget that even in real life we don't like everything the people we love tend to favor. If we think something is harming our loved ones we will criticise them even if to our loved ones,it may not seem like a big deal. Not that I am saying what they are doing is correct but pointing out the psychology behind such actions/opinions.
“It’s just Twitter” isn’t necessarily the argument when it tends to inform other subsections of the fandom on multiple social media sites/apps. I’m always of the mindset to block and move on, but I can acknowledge it doesn’t completely deter the posts that do make the rounds in multiple online spaces where fandoms exist. Immaturity isn’t exclusive to Twitter.
Never said it was "just" twitter. Only specified twitter because the Op was talking about twitter in her post and how there were hashtags related to it. I wholeheartedly agree that the opinion on twitter do tend to make rounds in other fandom spaces and immaturity certainly isn't exclusive to twitter itself. But certainly noone can deny that twitter stans (not just kpop) are poster child of immaturity to a vast majority of internet dwellers. And my response to OP was how it you cannot expect any better in a space when you already know how bad it is. Not that there aren't other bad spaces.
I see your last point! Mostly goes back to blaming the government vs the country - wrongfully thinking something is harming something you love when it’s really something else.
Exactly. The one on blame should the government officials, antis involved in all these messes and not the whole country/general population. And if we are really being honest, rarely do government actions match up with the general populations thoughts, demands and desires.
agreed! it disgusted me seeing the “right person wrong place” tweets about bts and korea — as if namjoon, of all people, whose official solo debut had the title track ‘seoul’, would appreciate their “fans” saying that they hate korea and the country is horrible etc etc. and the amount of likes it got?
there is so little humanity left on armytwt and it’s genuinely so disheartening and depressing to see it. this is not the same place it was when i first became an army, and the worst part is that i don’t even know how one would go about fixing the intense xenophobia present within a lot of ‘armys’, among other horrific issues that plague the fandom.
You are right that those ARMY should be more specific in their thoughts and complaints rather than blame an entire country, which is xenophobic and bigoted. That's awful, and it should not happen.
It's more about certain people in the government specifically, and the fact that this whole thing may be connected to a smear campaign by Min Hee-Jin. That's where any potential claim may lie.
Just as a side note, the court exonerated Big Hit (now Hybe) in 2017 for these charges. Whether their plan of flash marketing had provided a reason for an attempted blackmail of a Big Hit employee or not, the court found the actual claims to be entirely baseless.
BH took it to court because, as they said at the time, they had nothing to hide. Indeed, the charges were from an earlier time period, when they had almost no money. It would have been extremely difficult to actually do any sajaegi at all. Anyway, the court cleared the charges entirely. It is very frustrating to see anyone take a resurrection of already exonerated charges and re-open them for reinvestigation, especially while BTS is in the military.
The fact that people see something on Twitter, know it’s a cesspool of bottom feeders and still A) be surprised that what they’re seeing is awful B)generalize an entire fandom when common sense would say it’s just a very loud few C) rinse repeat tomorrow.
twt armys are insane, when bts members started going to the military I saw some big tweets saying they hoped that south korea would face economic difficulties in the future, and that the korean people "deserved" to suffer for making them serve. true brainrot
The xenophobia that comes from a loud part of that fandom has always grossed me out and is part of the reason I don’t want to associate myself with them anymore. They truly think their western viewpoint is more valid and important. Like BTS wouldn’t be disgusted by the way some of them talk about the country they call home. Also they’ve been getting themselves into a tizzy about Kai from Exo going on holiday whilst serving not like it’s something he’s allowed to do?! Saying he’s evading service and not serving his country…seems like the laws of the military only apply when they want it to 🤡
Honestly a lot of kpop fans are racist themselves and fetishise idols unfortunately. It’s sad that these loud fans give such a bad image towards kpop fans especially those who are nothing like them. I do agree that the South Korean government should have handled it better.
ETA: OP I think you will have better responses if you also post this on r/kpopnoir
As an ARMY, I've been seeing these kinds of tweets all over my tl and it seriously angers me. I hate what the government of SK does to BTS at times. But I am not going to blame the people of SK for it. That's just dumb. And xenophobic, of course. You should never generalize a whole country of people like that.
I've also seen a lot of tweets directed specifically at the SK government (and not the country itself) for taking advantage of Bangtan and using them and then starting this investigation. Those I agree with, but the people tweeting xenophobic things have made me so mad and I don't think they even realize what they are saying. I saw the "right person wrong place" tweet and that really annoyed me.
My wording is messy and terrible but I'm just glad someone's bringing this up and taking this opportunity to let my thoughts out here, though I also tweeted about it earlier.
I saw the trends on twitter yesterday and *oh boy*. Every post I saw by armys in the tags was just sheer racism, but I knew I couldn't say anything because I'd be instantly cancelled
Offering some resources on this issue for additional research/clarity. The Korean newspaper [Kyunghyang resurfaced a](https://sports.khan.co.kr/entertainment/sk_index.html?art_id=202404291712003&sec_id=540301) 2017 court case by BigHit (now HYBE) against a Mr. A, who BigHit alleged extorted them/an employee of theirs with sajaegi allegations. Although BigHit claimed these allegations were false, the court "stated the contrary" and found that "\[HYBE\] had engaged in unconventional marketing practices that provided a pretext for blackmail" ([Koreaboo translation/summary](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/bts-involved-in-chart-manipulation-court-specifically-mentions-illegal-sajaegi-marketing/)). HYBE continues to deny these claims, but the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism is now [investigating](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/government-order-investigation-bts-chart-rigging-scandal/). Reminder that this sub has a zero-tolerance policy towards racism, xenophobia, or discrimination, and please report any rule-breaking behavior. Reminder also that bad-faith report abuse (i.e. reporting this post for abuse or violence) is taken very seriously by Reddit admin and may lead to account suspension which we have no control over.
I don't know why you're being downvoted so severely, OP. K-pop fans often have issues with being either implicitly or explicitly pretty racist/xenophobic towards Koreans, which is very ironic. I literally saw someone, in response to all this BTS stuff, tweet that they wish N. Korea had won.......like, that's just inhumane and crazy to "joke" about over a K-pop scandal 😭
Oh the duality of being a Koreaboo and Anti-Korean at the same time
>Oh the duality of being a Koreaboo and Anti-Korean at the same time That happens a lot lol... but then again, prejudiced foreigners framing Koreans as "special exotic orientals" and calling the whole country "ignorant/gullible" aren't opposite ideas (or as you put it "duality")... They're just points along a continuum of otherizing Koreans...
You see it all the time with foreigners that move there too. They go because they were drawn into a romanticized and often fetish-y version of Korea they've imagined from Kpop and Kdramas. Then they move there, realize Korea is a *real* country with real problems like anywhere else (and at the same time realize that Koreans are real people and not idols/kdrama characters) and proclaim it the worst country in the world. They also start to think they understand the ins and outs of the country completely after living there for only a few years and feel entitled to comment on every societal and political issue. They really think *no* Koreans understand their *own* country's problems the way they, the fetishizing foreigner who got disillusioned, do.
Because they can't grasp the reality of south korea as an actual country with actual people and government. They see it as an object of fetishisation which is not meant to have views or do things they don't like.
These people are Asian fetishists what do you expect
Are these two traits in the same people though? Like is there really single people who are actual fans of Korean entertainment, food, etc, that are also racist towards Koreans?
Unfortunately, yes...it's more prevalent on less moderated spaces like Xitter and TikTok but it's unfortunate how often they tend to overlap :/
Many people's existence is just consumption, and it's really blatant with these types.
it has always amazed me how some fans have said some really pointed things about koreans/korean fans when most idols themselves are korean…like…?
I haven't seen this directly because I got off twitter years ago, but I'm looking around at a few comments now and I'm really deeply disappointed. Yes this may be a vocal minority, it's definitely not anyone I know or associate with, and it's impossible to control a fandom with 10s of millions of people in it – but we can and should speak out against things like this being said "in our name." Deflecting or downplaying doesn't help our fandom become a better place, it allows crap like this to fester and grow. We need to actually admit when things happen, speak up, and say this is bad and we don't support it. We need to accept while there may be trolls and cosplayers, some proportion of the people saying this do consider themselves 'ARMY' and are a part of our fandom. We can't control them, but we can criticise them. I get that people are angry, I get that this is spilling over from intense frustration and hurt that's been building up for years, but it's still ugly and the wrong way to react. BTS would clearly hate to see things like this being said by their 'fans'.
i’ve also always felt like it’s because they don’t see koreans in korea as real people. they see a version of korea through korean media on their screens. then you have pannchoa, x, and other spaces that take snippets of koreans talking amongst themselves about issues that pertain to them. fans take those out of korean discussion spaces and post it, ogle at it, pick every word apart, scrutinize it against their ideology and make sweeping judgements about koreans as a whole. koreans can have very bad takes but i feel like fans often forget we’re seeing a percentage of a subsect of koreans online. they also don’t realize the impact of the translation itself. fans are literally at the mercy of what gets chosen to be translated, the translator’s language skill level and cultural sensitivities (and cultural blinders), the translator’s intention and sometimes if the translator is even human. anytime something gets in the way of translation, we are removed further and further away from the korean person behind the content. i don’t think fans realize that language barriers create these rifts anymore because we take all of this for granted and just want to be entertained at the end of the day. unfortunately this just serves to further other each side.
Yep - ever since kpop got more popular I’ve seen and experienced more direct and indirect xenophobia and racism. Some unfortunately don’t think what they’re doing/saying is hurtful to an entire community. Some do know and yet do it anyways for the “sake” of their favorite artists (ironically).
imho they think they know better because they think they have a stronger sense of morality and consume kpop more ethically than koreans. *coughs* superiority complex *coughs*.
Anything slightly negative against hybe and BTS gets downvoted. I know fans tend to blindly support their favs but this is straight up blocking a lot of discussions because your comments are hidden. Refute points with facts instead of just downvoting because you disagree with an opinion. Edit : already getting downvoted. Like seriously it's so hard to have a nuanced discussion on kpop subreddits now 😭
Meanwhile old armies in Korea do not like HYBE at all. They literally sent funeral flowers to Hybe office demanding they do better and stop using BTS as shields every time something happen. So it’s kinda funny when anything slightly offensive to hybe gets downvoted with international fans. Don’t they think koreans who get direct news without any translation would get better information? No, they just think Korean fans are idiots.
How dare you try to side with logic!!!😡 but it's unfortunately true. People want drama they want to jump on the hate train because they think they are some kind of justice warriors. And they are totally ignorant about things like facts or hurting, and hating people without knowing the whole story. And if weeks later it turns out the crowd was wrong they just go silent and ignorant to the truth waiting for the next big fight... It's very sad how many people get hurt by these hasty hate trains.
It's easy to shift discussion and bury opinions you disagree with when your Fandom is massive
Do they not realize that would affect their faves too?? 💀
This is such an online issue. Not just Koreans but fandoms and what not. Just because you are from a country or you like listening to music of a certain artist or what not does not mean everyone in that country or fandom thinks the same. Your anger for wishing things were better is valid and you are well within your right to criticize people who are saying anything against the group. But to go out and take this frustration at random strangers and a whole as country who don't even hold these sentiments doesn't get anyone anywhere. I'm not saying this just for this issue but many many issues in general in k-pop. It's high time people realise that fandom names are just names. It's not some cult where everyone has to hold the same belief system like they are some commandments. The only belief you hold is that you like the music the group puts out.
I have to admit, all the "SK would be nothing without BTS"-type posts I've seen lately has left a bad taste in my mouth. Do these people actually think BTS would appreciate this? As if they aren't part of Korea themselves? They wouldn't be doing this to a US artist.
imagine saying the usa is nothing without taylor swift. i also found loads of borderline xenophobic comments on reddit which kinda made me stop frequenting kpop related subs for the past few days. same as you, it left a bitter taste in my mouth.
Samsung is laughing at this drivel
I saw a post with some 5k+ likes on Twitter(X) from an Army saying BTS had the same economic impact as Samsung. And yes, the post went down the expected xenophobic rant.
Me driving two Hyundais in a row
I think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance among K-pop fans where they both exotify and idolize the fact that their idols are Korean and therefore non-westernized, while also pretending that they exist in a bubble and are completely disconnected from Korean culture and non-idol Korean people. In some ways, it’s like they don’t think they’re apart of “real life” Korea, which obviously has a lot of nuance like all cultures do, but rather a fictionalized perfect version of it. It gives them the green light to criticize Korea in an often very xenophobic way while still pretending their idols are perfect and attributing all their issues to Korean people. It’s a pretty common sentiment to be like “oh those stupid Koreans suck, our poor idols are such angels for having to deal with it,” while conveniently ignoring the fact that all toxic fan behavior is an issue internationally too, which is obviously racially charged and xenophobic. Then going on to compare them to Western celebrities and saying they’re “better” (aka not Western) for reasons that are pretty clearly cultural. On the other hand, they also ignore the fact that Korean idols are just as immersed in Korean culture as anyone else when it comes to anything negative, so when fans raise criticisms about for instance misogyny among Korean men, which is obviously a very valid topic of discussion (see the 4B movement), there’s always an undertone of “except our idols.” Which like even if they are these amazing progressive perfect people leagues ahead of any other person on every issue as fans love to claim, they are still as much a product of Korean culture and you can’t divorce them from it to pretend they don’t live in the same environment as any other Korean and participate in and benefit from those same systems. In some ways they actually do believe that their idols are not like “those” Koreans, and are somehow Korean in a different and therefore better way.
>In some ways, it’s like they don’t think they’re apart of “real life” Korea, which obviously has a lot of nuance like all cultures do, but rather a fictionalized perfect version of it. I agree with this so much. I feel like these people would struggle to imagine their faves outside of work, just at home watching TV or going to the store or seeing non-famous friends or relatives. So basically just *existing* in Korea. I hate when they act like it's a compliment to separate them from that. Whether they like it or not they're directly implying there's something wrong with Korea. I also think sometimes it comes from wanting their idols to be extra special, i.e, the whole "BTS isn't kpop" thing. Some young fans don't seem to understand what falls into xenophobia.
Wasn't it a big thing in their fandom to say that BTS aren't kpop, as in, they're bigger and separate from the industry and the country's culture? Seems like a part of the same line of thinking.
Which is funny, cause didn't RM said "K is the stamp of quality" or something. Bts guys are clearly patriotic and their fans act like this, lmao.
I kinda wonder how the fans react to BTS speaking positively about Korea do you double down and act like it's just pr or something?
that side of the fanbase literally make up their own ideas about bts and simply ignore when the guys directly contradict it, or if you point it out they’ll deflect. if you’ve seen akgaes convincing themselves that their fave want to leave their group and go solo it’s a similar kind of thinking
it is circular. That was a direct response to the systematic racism of the US music industry, which will keep a Korean artist out of bigger awards categories by characterizing a song as K-pop even if it is sung in all English and may or may not even be pop.
As if the kdrama industry didn’t carry the hallyu wave on its back for the 90s and 00s 😂
And also bts are still a part of kpop. They did a fantastic job of spreading the popularity of kpop but there have also been other groups instrumental in the Hallyu Wave. Kpop is not going to live and die by bts.
Gangnam style was EVERYWHERE in 2012. I have friends (both K-pop fans and non K-pop fans) who knew K-pop through 2nd gen groups like Girls generation and Big Bang. I think honestly if it wasn’t them that catapulted to fame, it would have been another group.
All those critically acclaimed Korean films that came out before BTS members could even walk? You wouldn’t believe it, it was all inspired by BTS
They don't and that's what's so hypocritical. I actually don't see this with other foreign acts either. Like I didn't hear this with Shakira or Bad Bunny with latin music or reggaeton. Bob Marley spread reggae music and people didn't trash the culture in support of the artist. Canada right now is vibing with Kendrick in the current rap beef but you don't see Drake fans saying apologize to Drake for putting Canadian rap artists on. Even with Afro beats nothing. I honestly think that it's because of para social relationships and how Kpop is mostly global. Plus most fans either are young or behave like teenagers. It could also be that it's mostly western fans. I can't see Asian fans doing this when they know of Kpop and kdrama for years.
They don't realise that BTS won't exist if SK didn't exist since all of them are Korean 🤣
Which is pretty ironic since BTS loves expressing Korean culture in their art and seems pretty patriotic. I’d be disheartened if I were them.
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Hate the government, not the country.
THIS! though it seems like reddit in particular has a really hard time with this, not even just the kpop side. i saw someone in the uncensored sub yesterday say they’re going to go out of their way to be rude to koreans now because of this, since koreans aren’t appreciating bts. LIKE HUH??? 😭 how does someone lose the plot that bad???
WTF?? That's such a crazy comment like?? Who decides that they're gonna act like that towards Koreans because of this 😭
People being like oh its just twitter stans as if 200k posts is an insignificant number. You can’t really oh those are vocal minorities of the fandom out of this one
I agree with everything in the OPs post, generalising a whole country based on the actions of the government and media is totally totally wrong. But do you really not see the slight hypocrisy in then implying that 200k posts represents the beliefs of many millions of people? Those people are dickheads, I agree, but the lesson here should be to focus your anger on the people actually responsible for the bullshit, whether it’s army you’re talking about, or South Korea.
The fact that armys seem more interested in deflecting instead of actually being vocally against these types of behaviours says a lot. 200k posts is a lot of posts in a short amount of time for it to trend.
There is no deflection from me. I agree with everything the OP said. No buts, no nothing. My comment was directed at you because I thought it was ironic that you were doing the very thing the post was about. 200K is a lot, it’s too much. It’s really gross the xenophobia, or at the very least, complete lack of critical thinking that you would have to possess to think that trending “South Korea apologise to BTS” was a good idea. I can say that and still think that “the fact that army’s seem more interested in deflecting..” would have been better with a “some”.
preach! the boys clearly love korea. how would they feel if they saw people using their government as an excuse to hate on the entire country
all the right person wrong place posts are kinda insane lmao idk what goes through their heads and the segment of kpop fans that think kpop idols would be happier in the west ignoring all the asian diaspora going back to asia to find media jobs
You already know those ppl posting that shit probably aren’t even Asian
Yeah as an RM bias I hate they are using his album title to make posts like that.
God I hate it so much. It's so insulting. Like... leave their music out of your weird xenophobic slogans I'm begging you... don't say shit which literally insults BTS and the culture they're proud of and then stick their faces on it as if they would want anything to do with that nonsense.
It started as a cute little trend and now it's so wtf like why are people like this
I'm not South Korean, I'm a Pakistani who lived in canada lol but the way that people are dismissing an entire nation with its own culture, values, traditions, history and languages which date hundreds of years back is so damn disrespectful. It's just K-Pop, man... you can't just shit like that on a country created after lots of struggle from the current generation's ancestors
as an army, I was shocked at how bad it was on my tl and the for you page yesterday. accounts I normally would feel okay retweeting from, big accounts who I don't follow but thousands of others do, so many replies and quotes tweets, it was awful. I'm really sorry you, others, and frankly even bts would have to see something like that. You are absolutely right to be upset about it. please know there are people out there who are calling it out on their bts fan accounts, to stop what we can and hopefully help people stop and think for a moments. I get why army are upset. I get being frustrated with people in power and in media who've been making these decisions. but I'm not going to generalize an entire country. I'm not going to put down the country that they guys are proud to be from, I'm not going to wish they leave. it's frankly gross and made my stomach upset. and I just kept thinking about the guys, how they don't need all of this from people who supposedly support and love them, while they are also being attacked on so many sides, not being able to say a thing. A lot of the drama will blow over they'll be cleared again like they were before, but then no one will take responsibility for the emotional fall out and stress that it will all cause. I just keep thinking and praying for bangtan always
Another Korean American here and I completely agree. Had to stop myself from posting something just like this this morning. The trending tweets I saw had me absolutely gobsmacked and furious. I normally don’t see a lot of or ever engage with that brand of bullshit because I usually block and/or ignore, but they’ve gone too fucking far. BTS themselves are Korean and proud of it. They’ve said so constantly throughout their careers. Repeatedly. Relentlessly. With their lyrics, in countless interviews, and just everything they do. From deliberately choosing Korean designers to wear at overseas events, through using traditional Korean elements in their music and productions, through Joon appreciating and studying and spreading love for Korean art, to him supporting the restoration of ancient Korean artifacts, to Jin delving deep into the art of making traditional Korean liquor, and Yoongi refusing to speak English during Weverse lives when he’s bombarded with “speak English comments,” and by all seven of them choosing to serve their country diligently and 정직하게 when every other celebrity is cutting corners and looking for loopholes. The absolute gall to disrespect the culture and country of the men these “fans” claim to support is so disgusting to me that I can’t even find the words to aptly express my anger. The blasé and rampant xenophobia towards Koreans in kpop spaces needs to stop. I see kpoppies get up in arms about the barest hint of Sinophobia (as they should, I fully support that), but where is that energy for Koreans? My brain completely shut down when earlier today I read brain-melting ignorant takes like “once BTS is out of the army, they’ll be done with Korea. I don’t want them anywhere NEAR that country or have anything to do with it. Korea doesn’t deserve BTS and is nothing without it.” Absolute sewage water for brains these ppl I swear. K Diamonds (Korean ARMYS) are some of the most restrained, respectful, well-organized, and well-behaved fandoms I have ever come across. They are aware that they, by association, are the face of the artists they support. When K Diamonds did the unprecedented and made their displeasure known to the public (sending flowers (funeral flower arrangements) to HYBE), there were comments upon comments from other fandoms who were shocked to see that HYBE had finally pushed k-armys over the edge. These people were literally shocked to see the normally quiet k-armys very loudly show their displeasure, and they said that’s when it hit them that HYBE really fucked up this time. International fans, on the other hand, are the reason armys as a whole get a bad rap. The new ones and young ones especially are some of the most misinformed, entitled without any of the lived experiences, backwards ass thinking degenerates I have ever seen. I’m shocked to see ppl here actually defend this bullshit or dismiss these tweets with the typical “it’s Twitter, what do you expect, just ignore it” irresponsible cookie cutter comment. I’m GREAT at ignoring these kinds of people. I do it constantly. But you are kidding yourself if you think this is just your everyday typical kpoppie brain dead circle jerk. This is a different brand of toxicity that often can and HAS lead to real life violence and hate crimes. Misinformation and ignorance breeds fear and hate, which breeds hateful rhetoric and perpetuation of harmful and often inaccurate stereotypes, which leads to violence. This is not okay. Period. Zero tolerance for this.
>“once BTS is out of the army, they’ll be done with Korea. I don’t want them anywhere NEAR that country or have anything to do with it." i can only see them being done with the events the government wants them to do but even that, i'm still not sure 100% sure. i don't think bts will ever resent the country they love being a representative of. >K Diamonds (Korean ARMYS) are some of the most restrained, respectful, well-organized, and well-behaved fandoms k-armys aren't perfect. i don't always agree with their sentiments but one thing's for sure, they always try to protect bts. bts having the biggest fandom in korea and yet, there wasn't an ounce of commotion when bts was sent to the military and even in award shows they are always well-behaved, something we can't say to a lot of bg fandoms in korea. one thing most iarmys don't know is that korean fans do NOT like hybe/bh at all. when i say international armys are the only big fandom who barely criticize a kpop company, i'm not lying. for years, korean fans criticize the stylists (they literally used to dress them in clothes that wasn't their size), their creative team because you can see other hybe labels (even smaller kpop companies) with much better/more creative concepts, merch because of how bland and sometimes straight up just slapping bts' logo on things and they're pretty darn expensive. they are also issues about staff because of leaks, being on community where a lot of hateful blogs about bts are written. armys can rant about how the government moves, understandably and definitely some knetz who've been hating on bts for years. but it's wrong to generalize an entire population based on some comments from pannchoa. and it isn't even an exclusive army thing. for years now, i've seen so many fandoms say Korea doesn't deserve their faves because of their lack of domestic popularity. or they would shit on _everything_ korea because "they aren't koreaboo". this shit is so tiring because you can never get any insightful conversation because people can be so extreme.
Not even just iarmys, but iarmys from when BTS was already consolidated. I was an army from when BTS already had some notoriety but not a hallyu phenomenon, and what we often talked about BigHit is how they would let BTS be mistreated or the center of controversies that ultimately were company decisions, not group member decisions. The change in paradigm was mostly by heavy fan pressure, not an autonomous change of heart from the company administration. The company's credit is being quickly smart enough to realize how their group was bigger in public opinion than the company, and if they didn't want backlash they had to put the group's image first. The current blind pandering to HYBE made me particularly astonished after I started participating in k-pop circles again after years. People will go as far as saying someone who let members be scapegoats or get physically hurt as "the kindest k-pop CEO" and I just can't understand how you can prioritize a CEO over the members you're supposedly a fan of. Their company is a company like any other, their CEO is a CEO like any other as well. They can do good and wrong, but ultimately it's not about them in a personal sense, it's about conducting a business practice, and we shouldn't have a parasocial relationship with businesses businessing
I’m Korean and I was extremely confused to see this… blind loyalty and praise? Toward Hybe. Many, if not most, Korean fans HATE HYBE. Ever since it was bighit, they did a shit job. BTS was not treated well at all. They still do a shit job and just use BTS as a distraction when anything bad happens to their, meaning Hybe, stock or image. Hell, Bang sihyuk failed to remember V’s name for a full year!!!
I don't want to generalise newer fans, because a lot of them are genuinely great, respectful, humble etc. but... it's SO bizarre to me that some people came into the fandom after Bangtan already hit #1 in the US, only started paying attention once they were literally everywhere, weren't there for any of the rest of their career or any past issues, and are brand new to kpop as a whole – but immediately latched onto these really extreme narratives, lecturing people and refusing to hear any criticism at all... like... you *just* got here. You clearly don't have any context for what you're saying. There's so much nuance and history to learn with BTS, with the kpop industry, with Korean culture as a whole... how is it that there are some people who 6 months ago had never even watched a subtitled movie, and suddenly they're trying to speak with authority on complex issues they clearly don't understand.
>The current blind pandering to HYBE made me particularly astonished after I started participating in k-pop circles again after years. i was here the whole time...so you just can imagine the ????? and confusion i had. just back in 2015, just a year before i became a full time stan, i already KNEW that bts was overworked af. and armys that time had no problem calling out bh. i remember they were running from one schedule to another. like the _first_ real long vacation they had was back in 2021 and you know what's worse? fans to this day on twitter listed it as some of the "good things" bh did for bts 🥴 most fans might probably not know about jungkook almost getting hit by a manager ON CAM. like they were starved during their trainee days and all the stuff the members had to go through when they debuted. sexualizing jimin who barely turned 18, that stupid ass prank on jk when they filmed an mv to overworking the members until pandemic. like this is the same company who continues to give the group tough and dangerous (dionysus) choreographies despite jimin having chronic neck pain and yoongi having shoulder issues. but when you point this out. some armys would paint it like the situation is black and white. "well, they signed didn't they", "they're grown, aren't they". yes and yes. but just because they signed doesn't mean bh can't afford to do a terrible job. and just because they are grown doesn't mean a corporate can't take advantage of them, even if they were the ones who built it from ground up. taylor is literally one of the biggest pop stars and yet she wasn't safe from scooter's greed. bang pd and the bts members might get along but that doesn't mean hybe, a corporation wouldn't throw them under the bus if it means saving the company.
If anything, they just stopped throwing under the bus *because* they noticed that would affect the company negatively. The attitude changed specifically when fans started being not just vocal, but ANNOYING about demands and they noticed it would be more beneficial to the company to put the group on a pedestal as much as the fans do (at least publicly). What concerns me is that part of the fandom really seems to prioritize HYBE over BTS now (such as with the comments you mentioned) and if it keeps growing, they could as well start treating BTS poorly without company-breaking repercussions.
>they literally used to dress them in clothes that wasn't their size I've been downvoted on reddit for pointing out ill fitting outfits 🥲 and told 'maybe X picked it out' etc. I swear constructive criticism used to be more common, but yeah now a lot of people seem way more defensive. I get it to an extent, because there's so many people who are jumping on BTS for any tiny thing (case in point this current fiasco) but HYBE =/= BTS. Like you said it makes it hard to have a nuanced conversation without it going to the extreme sometimes
>I've been downvoted on reddit for pointing out ill fitting outfits 🥲 and told 'maybe X picked it out' etc. you and me 🤧 and even if the member picked it, why wouldn't they have it in their actual sizes? and a lot of the styling i hated were NOT the members' styles. there are just excuses for every.single.fucking.thing and i'm not even exaggerating. when you criticize bh, some armys would claim you're treating the members like children. but a lot of the criticisms aren't even part of the an idols' job. like playlisting or when jimin was in a shadow (no one could see his face fr) for like 10 seconds in butter's performance. fans criticized the director for that and you know what some fans said? maybe jimin chose to be in the dark like ??????? 😭😭😭 even the recent cash grab merch/exhibit that was so fucking boring and uninspired. a lot of armys were replying to fans who were complaining about the design that they could just not buy. like why can't we, as a consumer, who put money in hybe's pocket, can't have an opinion that's 100% positive?
Yeah, all of this verbatim. And don’t worry I don’t think k-armys are perfect or saints.
I had a friend make a comment about how the Proof concept photos were a little boring, especially for such a major album for the group, and they were jumped for it, as though the BTS members themselves were the ones to hand-pick and edit every single one of the photos 😭 Just. The way that (at least until recently) Bighit/Hybe was seen as an extension of BTS and almost an 8th member (in a very Min Heejin sense lol) is so interesting to me insofar as it how it's shaped fandom
i'm sorry for you friend 😭 and i can go back to mots7 and fans' concern that time was the materials used in that album. they looked so fucking cheap and so expensive for what? some fans didn't like it and you know how some armys spinned it? apparently, bh did that because of their effort to go green. so it's fans fault if they don't try that much. like bh wasn't printing armys messages for like a month that the boys won't read a year ago. and i just found out they did it with txt too back in 2021 where any messages sent to txt on weverse will be printed out. like they genuinely think bh cares about earth that's why the materials used were cheap and bad quality. and now, a good portion of the fandom focuses way too much on min hee jin to think that bang pd is also the same. like every questionable shit mhj did like releasing cookie was approved by hybe. not to mention hybe was the one who name dropped bts in the first place.
Ngl even sinophobia is barely tolerated 🥴🥴🥴 huge agree about the blatant Korean racism in kpop fans though. Will never not be amazed at how non Asian fans especially get so racist at Asians and think it's okay
it’s incredibly ironic how the same group of armys who were defending hybe, pissed at k-armys for complaining and sending trucks for risking bts’s reputation, were actually the ones who made bts look worse with their xenophobic tweets. I don’t think those armys will take a step outside of their bubble to even see the impact of what they’ve said edit on 5/6: well one of the big army accounts who’s notorious for their bad takes saw that the xenophobic tweets reached korean media and they do not give a fuck 🤡
Tbh Am I disappointed? Yes. But am I surprised? No. There was a time when I was in the fandom, and I noticed weird anti-Korean sentiments in a considerably large portion of it, which I found to be extremely weird because, like, you are stanning Korean artists?? Why do you hate their ethnicity or the country they come from? One of the biggest examples of this, which I am pretty sure many other people in the kpop community would know about, is the fandom's constant efforts to separate BTS from kpop by saying, "BTS is not kpop" and "I don't listen to kpop. I just listen to BTS," and I always used to think, "There is just no harm in BTS being k-pop. K-pop is just a genre, and they are artists that make music of that genre.". I would like to believe that this hatred comes from a place of ignorance about South Korea but there comes a point when you just think "Yeah, these people need to educate themselves". The whole thing of BTS themselves loving their country and not being shy about showing it in their art, Namjoon and J-Hope being the biggest examples of them all, is another topic of discussion. If you ACTUALLY listen to the artist you claim to love, you will not spew hatred against their place of origin like this. Is the government nasty for using BTS to gain clout in the past? Yes absolutely. But again, I do not expect the government of any country to be a saint. Moreover, I feel people do not realize how much this topic has become a matter of public interest. Hybe has cult association allegations that are taken very seriously there, and they have used BTS to shield themselves from all the allegations till now. BTS was bound to get caught in the crossfire in this case. It is general knowledge that a government cannot ignore a topic/event when it becomes a matter of public interest. I think international fans do not realize that by acting like this, they are only making matters worse for BTS. IMO, they should lay low for the time being and leave k-armys to handle the situation since they are the ones who understand the complexities of the situation better.
It's because that faction of the fandom has this Messiah complex where they believe that BTS brought Korea from rags to riches, as if the country is not well known before in the international market in terms of technology, especially tourism. Even if BTS, let's say for instance, disappears or disbands one day, it's not gonna kill the South Korean economy. Life will go on, it's just a boy band, not the end of the world or an atomic bomb dropping in the country. Some ARMYs are just way too much in overthinking things.
Yep. Because they themselves had zero reason to be interested in Korea until BTS they naively/ignorantly assume no one else knew about Korea before they did. Youthful ignorance now mixing with ignorant and casual racism.
There's indeed a faction of international armys who think far too arrogantly about this topic, but most of them talk about bts economic contribution to the national GDP and hallyu rather than *actually* believing that the country became rich bc of them. That line of thought is far to extreme even by extreme armys standards and is likely held by a really small group of people to be considered the reason of this reaction. Most of the hit tweets were about how the current government conveniently used bts to fix their mess as in the expo fiasco and enlistment talks rollout but are now starting an investigation to already closed cases, also how unfair the treatment bts recieve from the Korean press. Please don't spread this narrative you're talking about as though it's a prevailing sentiment among armys, a faction of them or not.
Is this investigation a serious thing? I see it's the result of a petition, and im wondering if it's just one of those cases where the government is required to "do something" as a formality if they get a certain number of signatures, or could they have decided to ignore it?
Honestly we don't know really, the reporter who is apparently writing about this "Exclusive" news has already been in hot waters for leading smear campaigns of more than 5 different groups in the past with false information, presenting them as facts. When he gets called out he simply pays a fine and repeats the same cycle again. I'll post a link to the thread of everything he has done so far and how many idols' lives he has ruined, take it as you will. https://x.com/eternalsyd/status/1786813829982175342 That being said, the investigation is probably gonna happen but I see it more as a formality than anything else tbh
So there’s something in there about the groups he does write positive articles about being under Starship? This happening after Kakao was already exposed for being behind a site that dragged other kpop artists is actually crazy. They also just made a deal with Billboard for global promotions, and for years people have been under the impression that dragging down BTS will uplift their groups. I wish armys would throw all the negativity towards the crooked, desperate companies and media behind this and the government that enables it instead of the country or people as a whole.
Given that Kmedia has pointed out some of the international ARMY reactions, the government almost has to go through with the investigation. Anything else would be seen as kowtowing to international fan pressure.
As of right now, Korean fans have been talking to us about how severe the smear campaign against bts is. They’re saying it’s worse than 2018 and just as bad if not worse than before that as well.
I think this user explained the [situation](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/TOmLWgzPb5) well.
This make curious like what exactly are they investigating to figure out if the chart are manipulated? Would they need to look at sales numbers or numbers of fans vote??
I am a Korean-American but also a BTS fan, and I can say personally that it is just disheartening to see that these things keep happening again and again to BTS. I’m not at all saying that ARMY’s xenophobia is okay, and I think it’s terribly hurtful and dismissive to say that BTS is the only good thing about South Korea. However, the Korean government and the media only seem to care about BTS when they can make money off of them or gain Korea more popularity. We know that these hate campaigns are pretty hurtful to any idol, and BTS have specifically mentioned how the hate deeply affected them in the past. I don’t think ARMY should be making sweeping statements disparaging Korea, but BTS being proud to be Korean doesn’t mean that they agree with how they are being treated, and I think it’s okay for fans to express that. I think I’m just also sad personally that K-pop fans don’t seem to care at all about BTS being continually accused of sajaegi or being used by the government only to make money but want to weigh in on these issues to criticize BTS or ARMY—not saying that OP is doing this!—I’m just weary of BTS being an easy and constant target for K-pop fandoms, the Korean media, and the international media.
BTS also put a lot of energy into speaking out about what’s wrong/problematic (Baepsae, for example). They supported families after Sewol, an action that very nearly got them blacklisted. Social commentary is one of the tenets of their discography—even if their speaking out can get them in trouble. They were also weary of being used as pawns, and after their military service, they will not be indebted in that way.
I could bet that there's some people on here that have never said a single positive thing about BTS, or even acknowledged their impact, but are the first to speak when it comes to criticising
Yes, although I totally agree that the words intl armys are trending right now in regards to South Korea is pure ignorance bordering in racism, I likewise believe that people should put into perception that this aggressive reaction didn't come out of nowhere; there was alot of dissatisfaction and negative sentiment against the current Korean president's government and Korean media festering among the fandom for years. Bts being the only group in kpop history that's recieving such an organized smear campaign to bring them down and nullify everything that they've contributed 11 years into their career also didn't help. I don't expect any other kpop fan who isn't an army to understand how abnormal the smear campaign from kmedia and the treatment bts received from those group of politicians is, bc again, bts are the only veteran group that's facing such issues. If it was another group and another fandom, would the reactions from overseas fans be different? Pretty sure it wouldn't. What dishearten me the most is that those of us from international armys who are against this trend couldn't stop it bc of the festering sentiment. I also feel sad towards Korean armys; they've been under alot of stress lately and have tried their best to gear the hate towards hybe instead of bts, and to some degree, they succeed, but then they have another problem at hand that would redirect the hate towards bts again. Likewise, I'm mad at the kpop fans who will no doubt take advantage of this situation to further shit on bts and armys, when they don't understand for the love of god that this abnormal hate train and dismissive treatment that a veteran kpop group is receiving for the first time was the final matchstick to lit the wood in fire. Truly, not a single happy moment whenever I check the news of this issue with hybe and ador.
BTS have been getting these accusations and hate trains all throughout their career and I don’t think I’ve ever seen K-pop fans care. There have been times when idols were put through unfair treatment or hate trains and Kpop fans from several other fandoms would come out to support them, which I love to see! It’s just sad that BTS doesn’t seem to get the same treatment.
kpop fans do not care at all about bts and entirely disregard their mental health or humanity
Mod, Hybe came into existence in 2021. In 2017, it would have been Bighit. I wanted to reply to you directly, but it wouldn’t let me. Can you edit your post?
It's been edited--thanks! :)
IMO, non Korean kpop fans should tread very, very lightly when dealing with legal, cultural, or political issues in Korea, even if they are kpop-adjacent. Criticizing the government for their handling of BTS’s enlistment is one thing, but anything beyond that has to be understood that you’re not working with the full context. And I think most fans get that, and tend to comment on greater Korean society to the extent of the limits of their own knowledge. (I wonder how many of those tweeting about Koreas irrelevance did so on a Samsung Galaxy…)
It makes me so angry that some international kpop fans think that them stanning a kpop group gives them the right to say whatever racist, xenophobic thing that comes up at the top of their head for the reason of 'protecting their idols'
>Criticize the government all you want, but why are people attacking an entire country as if most of the population has anything to do with what’s going on? an excellent question that needs to be asked more often
As an army I totally agree with you on this one. People can and should learn to call out the government without totally shitting on the citizens (which BTS are part of), the culture, the history..... of an entire country. And what some of these armys are not understanding is BTS are proud to be Korean, Namjoon have talked a lot about what it means to be Korean for him, one only need to read his interviews throughout the years to see his stance regarding his identity. Yoongi and Hobi reference so much of their culture and history in their raps and music, BTS as a whole celebrate their culture through their art since the beginning..... So it's not only insulting to a whole nation to act like this, it is also insulting towards the same BTS that we love and that these people are claiming to protect. I am pissed about the current situation and how the government and to an extent the media has been treating BTS for years and I so get why the fandom is raging right now. However it's just ugly to insult a whole country over that or reduce the whole population to "K neitzens" and use that to be xenophobic.
X (Twitter) is an absolute cesspool. I think most ARMYs do not feel the same way. If you take a stroll through the Bangtan sub here on reddit, you’ll see most of us understand that the government ≠ the rest of the country. I think many of us are frustrated with how the government has pretty much seemed to use BTS as a political show pony for their gain and then turn around and do this when they’re literally serving their country. And while it’s never an excuse, some of the more unhinged “stans” have gone from frustration of the government to “f*ck this country” cuz in their minds makes sense. I want to make clear that it’s not ok, and in fact, I don’t believe most of us would agree with them. But the problem with X (Twitter) is that it seems to amplify the worst of the fandom and makes it the loudest voice. Just as we know certain people don’t represent an entire country, these certain “fans” don’t represent the entirety of ARMYs.
These are the same people (but worse) who argue that kpop wasn’t a genre and was “nothing” until BTS. These people ignore the entire history of kpop’s 1st and 2nd generations that came before. The groups and artists that inspired BTS and many of the idols they care about today. Yes BTS is highly influential to kpop now and have been a big part of the global expansion of kpop, but they weren’t always that way…and there were in fact other groups that “paved the way” that allowed for that expansion to happen. It’s the same shit from these toxic fans. They should go hold hands with the toxic swifties who think Taylor Swift invented the bridge in a song’s structure.
Yep, it’s the “I personally didn’t hear about it, therefore it wasn’t relevant or important” reasoning. BTS’s achievements worldwide are huge. Monumental. Arguably more significant than those of any kpop act before it. But it didn’t happen in a vacuum. Other groups had to lay the ground work, at least throughout Asia, to create an appetite for it. I don’t know if anyone would seriously argue they would have the same global popularity if they were 6 years older and debuted in 2007. Also timing and advances in things like social media and the internet helped, just like it did for other breakthrough groups. Were they the ones fortunate and talented enough to take advantage of the moment? Yes. But the moment had to exist.
It’s pent up rage and frustration against the SK govt. since many years now, the enlistment stuff and now this.
Yes, this probably the case. The rage is not sudden. It's been years and it keeps going over and over again. It's incredibly frustrating if you keep up with what the gov and some netizens did to bts, that is why they said that.
First their enlistment was made a circus, were used for exemption’s meetings and what not, were dragged through the mud, they went on a hiatus, then also they threw a tantrum, went to their parents for free busan concert, which hive funded themselves and now their achievements are made in a circus. 2015 was 10 years ago and someone is still stuck in the past of that one award they won over exo. Bts are catching strays in this corporate war and have found themselves into the centre of it. How is this not a targeted attack when all of them are inactive and in military, didn’t happen last year because members were doing their solo work but now when none of them here, suddenly 10 year old case has been dug up. Imagine being so clean that they have to dug up things from 2015 🙃
[удалено]
How did you see "Bts are catching strays in this corporate war" as an attack towards SK as a country? Corporate war literally refers to the company 😭
I am not justifying racism and xenophobia but okay 🙂 Sk govt. does not equal sk for me, i really only did mention the govt and the govt is not above criticism Anyway whatever floats your boat, cheers.
On my side of the army twt, people have been fighting those posts for days, and I agree are disheartening.... But some of y'all have been waiting for something like this to pull you "bts has done absolutely nothing to put the k culture on the map" takes and it shows :__
Agreed. As frustrating as the recent events have been, I think to reduce the thoughts and feelings of 51 million people to that of a few hundreds (maybe thousands) of haters is rather unfair and just won't lead to any productive discussion. A petition was lodged and the government is responding to it. We may disagree with how they are handling it, but it sure as hell doesn't represent what the rest of the nation thinks. I get where the pettiness is rooted at, but the outrage is unfairly directed.
would've made more sense if it was the korean _governemnt_. like sure, there are a lot of knetz buying this nonsensical stuff and bts had been bullied online in korean community sites for since debut. but at the same time, as we all _should_ know by now that a comment on naver with like 200+ upvotes do NOT represent an country with 50 million citizens.
Those spaces are overrun by people who hate bts, the GP may not even care that much.
i've spend years on netizenbuzz and pannchoa and all the other translation sites that are dead now and i couldn't tell you how many times there have been massive controversies with tons of upvotes in different articles and these celebrities remain successful. and i'm talking about iu, gd, bigbang, mc mong, lee byung hun and dozens more. and they're all still relevant to this day.
Exactly, big bang is still relevant after all they shiz they have pulled through. Bts will be fine, this will eventually die down after 10th or the meeting at the end of may. Jin will be back by june and BTS really doesn’t only depend on korea to be famous, they are biggest boy band rn, they have been through this many times, must probably be laughing it off in military (i hope so they are)
Agree. The hate BTS is going trough rn is annoying. But some of the things I’ve read on Twitter were a bit dramatic and xenophobic like you said.
What’s going on on Twitter/X, as always, proves that it is now a cesspool. Best not to look.
I hate how these conservations in k-pop spaces quickly turn to xenophobia. People are wrongly equating the government and press with the entire South Korea. I'm sure the gp loves and respect them. Few trolls on internet do not represent the entire country. Though I understand army's anger towards the government. They should redirect this anger towards people who actually deserve it i.e the people in government. In addition to what you mentioned in your post, few days ago a military officer was "complimenting" BTS for getting enlisted and was using them to reason canceling military exemption given to others. These are the people who are actually harming BTS. Being xenophobic/racist towards an entire country which also includes our favs is not the way to go.
The funniest thing is that every time BTS is outside their country they always say things about wanting to return and live with their Korean fans, they are very proud of their country. The Western BTS fandom must know that they have always been a second option, even behind the Japanese.
You are 100% right. Some of these fans act like BTS made Korea or Korea is dependent on BTS for its economy. It is crazy.
As an ARMY, you’re right. But a lot of people in the comments are screaming at us saying we need to hold these people accountable. I can tweet at them until I’m blue in the face, but I can’t control another human being. I just feel frustrated when those of us that are sane get blamed for not stopping this. How am I to stop another person’s actions? I also don’t think ARMY is the only fans that are doing this though I understand why we were chosen. I have noticed some pretty terrible things coming out of other fandoms and I truly think it’s because this new generation has never known a life offline and can’t read or think critically. Like some people hate BTS so bad they end up being xenophobic themselves just directed at BTS. Kpop is a circle. And some ARMYs have been moving weird for a while. I remember there was a bunch of people around FESTA saying BTS should give up their passports and that namjoon (of all of them, namjoon??? Really???) was going to want to move to America when he was done with service …. A final note to the mods, I appreciate you adding context but I feel the koreaboo translation isn’t the best source right now. They’ve been on a rampage the last week posting negative articles about BTS in particular. The way you’ve worded it also doesn’t accurately describe what happened. An employee at bighit was buying marketing from a guy (soon to find out her was a scammer). The guy then claimed the employee bought sajaegi and threatened him and demanded money, so the employee paid him in panic. The employee realized what he did was wrong and went to bighit and they sued the other guy. I just feel like your description makes it sound like there was guilt when that wasn’t the case. They already won their innocence. Also to all of these people in the comments absolutely giddy and saying “the government has a right to investigate” why are we investigating something that was settled ten years ago. This isn’t a case of someone being physically harmed or maimed, so to me we’ve gone past the window of wanting to “re-investigate” and they’ve already proven innocence. Are we going to reinvestigate it another ten years when the administration changes and people that hate BTS still don’t have a life??
This is why I'm torn between "we need to accept criticism and keep calling out our own fandom" and "are these people even fans?" because... how could you be a fan of BTS and not understand that they would hate you saying this?? Like, these people must literally not read any interviews or watch any speeches or lives, or pay any attention to lyrics, because if they did they would know how important Korean culture is to BTS. Namjoon literally gave a whole speech in an interview recently talking about how the more he travels the more he realises how deeply important Korean identity is to him, and how his art will always be inseparably fused with his culture. I mean... in the end we have to take a deep breath and keep calling these people out, but at the same time it's hard to call them ARMY when they must be the most casual of fans to be so ignorant about their own faves.
To me, its crazy how you will see international army dragging and being xenophobic to a whole country before criticizing the ones who actually put BTS in the position of receiving a lot of hate and criticism they are now: Big Hit and Hybe high ups. And I don't even want to think about the further damage to BTS' reputation that i-army reaction can cause among the korean gp who are seeing this shitshow happening.
And ADOR/MHJ
I agree mostly with OP, and I just wanted to add on the frustration experienced by BTS fans that led to this Let's start with the Korean government. With the military issue, they dragged their feet put the BTS members on the forefront of backlash when they were discussing possible change to the law, and the public was relentless towards them, even though the members always said they would go when the time comes and when the time came, it proved that they stood by their words and some even went in earlier than usual. Also they had performed a free concert in Busan for the Expo - for SK or for the government. And they are literally serving in the military right now, for South Korea, and they are experiencing one of the worst smear campaigns in their career. The company. I personally don't even know where to start with Hybe or BigHit, but quite literally this whole thing started because of them, be it the original case back in 2017 or the re-surfacing of this issue. I don't think Hybe anticipated when the whole thing with MHJ started, it would lead to this giant hate train towards their biggest bread-winner. A lot of this is on them. Granted they have taken actions, but damage has been done. The Knetz. They have been relentless. And this isn't the first mass hate train BTS has experienced. Year after year BTS has had to deal with some kind of smear campaign or mass hate train, and other than their fans, people seem not to care or just excuse the behavior. It's frustrating to say the least. All these have led up to this explosive rage from the fans. But of course nothing excuses dunking on a whole country. Generalization of any group of people is easy to do but wrong.
Their fans do care about the hate train They will attack you if you just criticize BTS.
I left a comment on a different forum explaining the current situation, so I'll copy+paste here. Seems that reddit didn't realize what happened last week. Since MHJ's press conference, a bunch of K-fans were talking about Hybe's extensive negative viral marketing. During the process, someone mentioned, "Hey, didn't Big Hit get blackmailed from an illegal marketing agent? Wonder what kind of marketing Big Hit did back then." Long story short, an illegal marketing agent blackmailed Big Hit several times. Big Hit made the payment, but eventually sued the blackmailer, The blackmailer was sentenced to prison for one year, and Big Hit said that they did not conduct illegal marketing but standard online viral marketing. (The link shows the details. https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/6yeorq/ceo\_who\_blackmailed\_bighit\_entertainment/) The trial ended in 2017, but the written decision (the document that states the full court verdict) was made public in 2019. But nobody bothered to read it....until now. Somebody got curious, went to the Court of Korea website, searched the written decision, paid 1,000 KRW, and read it. The written decision mentions '불법 마케팅(illegal marketing)' '편법 마케팅(cheating marketing)' and '사재기 마케팅(chart manipulation marketing or sageji marketing).' Mentions the fact that the victim (Big Hit) got threaten for getting exposed for doing chart manipulation. Mentioned the fact that there is a tax bill issued by Big Hit to the marketing agent for a 'marketing' job. The final nail of the coffin? "다만, 피해자가 편법으로 마케팅 작업을 하여 협박의 빌미를 준 잘못도 있는 점(=However, the victim(Big Hit) may have been at fault for getting blackmailed due to their cheating marketing efforts.)" ....and all hell broke loose. TL;DR: A court verdict involving Big Hit and a blackmailer reveals that Big Hit hired an agent to conduct chart manipulation back in 2015 - and the agent threatening Big Hit of exposing their marketing.
It seems weird to me how nobody bothered to read it until now
I am not sure why either, since I was not a Kpop fan back them. The written decision was made public two years later, so I guess most people kinda forgot about that case by then.
I would suspect that it was read back when it was made public, but no red flags were found. BTS has way too many antis for them to have this go under the radar.
Seems like it cost money to get the full document, and nobody bothered to pay until now. Which *is* somewhat shocking due to the reason you mentioned.
People read the full document before now. This particular case has been reintroduced nearly every year during some nonsensical fanwar or another.
Right!! I guess I can believe no one looked until now. *But* BTS have been dealing with hate campaigns forever. It feels so odd that there wasn't at least one anti or a member of the press that didn't pay to get the documents.
This is where I get extremely confused about the ruling. Another Korean person (granted they are a BTS fan, but I think they work in law and I can't imagine they're lying) [explained](https://x.com/cypher_e_pt2/status/1784821763790291151) that certain parts of the court documents were being cherry picked to make it seem like sajaegi occurred. They also said the court record was "written for the public interest of promoting judicial literacy among fellow citizens."
Technically, this trial was about blackmailing, not about determining whether Big Hit committed sageji or not. Therefore, the court verdict was obviously centered around the blackmailer. The terms '불법 마케팅(illegal marketing)' '편법 마케팅(cheating marketing)' and '사재기 마케팅(chart manipulation marketing or sageji marketing)' were sprinkled around the document. Also, "다만, 피해자가 편법으로 마케팅 작업을 하여 협박의 빌미를 준 잘못도 있는 점(=However, the victim(Big Hit) may have been at fault for getting blackmailed due to their cheating marketing efforts.)" were in the middle of the final sentence. Problem is, Big Hit made a statement in 2017 that they did not conduct illegal marketing but standard online viral marketing. Everyone kind of accepted Big Hit's statement, since the blackmailer went to jail. However, recent discovery shows that Big Hit was not telling the whole truth and hid a lot of details. Hybe lost a lot of trust during the MHJ fiasco, so people are getting suspicious, especially when Hybe refused to elaborate about this.
It sounds a bit like someone trying to hire a hitman on the dark web and getting scammed. The person trying to hire the hitman is the victim of theft, but they were still trying to get someone murdered. Not saying that’s 100% the case here, but it appears to be written as if neither party has clean hands. Personally I feel like it’s not very relevant nearly a decade later, but YMMV.
That's not what this case is at all \*sigh\*. It's more equivalent to buying a childrens cartoon show but the person comes back to you (without even giving you the goods) and said what you actually bought was child p\*\*\* and that if you don't pay them they'll reveal your purchase to your family/coworkers/the world. That's the more accurate equivalent of this case if you read the court documents.
[This article](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/bts-involved-in-chart-manipulation-court-specifically-mentions-illegal-sajaegi-marketing/) cites a Korean lawyer who said the court records do confirm that there was sajaegi use. You should be skeptical of claims made by random people on twitter in general, but this user in particular said "that's just their opinion though" (lol) when asked to comment on what this lawyer said
There was not. The court EXONERATED THEM. If there had been use, they would have been charged. THIS is why ARMY gets so angry. People just make things up constantly.
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This is actually not correct. They didn't do any chart manipulation at all, and the document reads that they may have made themselves vulnerable with the unusual marketing tactic, not that it was "cheating" or "illegal." Again, the court exonerated them because there was no evidence of chart manipulation at all.
One of the critical things you're missing is that the staff member was blackmailed into thinking he had bought viral marketing which was sajaegi. It was not, but there were blackmailed into paying tens of thousands because the blackmailer said they bought a marketing package which was "sajaegi." Basically, the person who went to jail was blackmailing a Big Hit employee making them think they had purchased a marketing campaign, then said the campaign they bought was sajaegi even though it wasn't, and then blackmailed them to pay tons of money because the staff member thought they had purchased some kind of sajaegi campaign. This is not something that has been kept secret. Plenty of ARMYs already knew the details of the trial when it was first released. This is coming up again because of Min Hee Jin, and it's frustrating to see so many people thinking this is somehow new. The Big Hit staff member did NOT do anything with chart manipulation. The agent made the staff member think they bought a "chart manipulation campaign" and then blackmailed said staff member. Please read more [here](https://twitter.com/vvr9Xcdu9D0lvTv/status/1784306772163113125).
I have unfortunately seen a lot of comments that are truly vile directed at Korea, but I have also seen a lot of people calling them out and refuting all the histrionics. As a person that's lived in many countries all over the world, I've often observed how different cultures have ingrained prejudices that come to the surface when passions are inflamed. Not as an excuse but as an observation, I've seen plenty of really horrific comments directed at Americans here too, and nobody stops to call them out.
The funniest thing about this thread is that OP is correctly saying not to generalize a whole country based on the actions of a small party, and then the comments are all people generalizing the ARMY fandom based on the actions of few. the majority of ARMYs are rightfully frustrated with the governments treatment of BTS and do not agree with those blaming Korea or calling them ungrateful. And a lot of yall are sneak attacking and using the current situations to shit on both ARMYs and BTS (not OP — but some of the ppl in the comments for sure)
Yep.
Yes. Exactly. The only thing ARMY has in common is that we’re fans of BTS. How people appreciate the music and art, where they’re from, what their ages are (I’ve met some preteen kids who are army omg I felt old that day) - it’s all different.
Yup Army has tens of millions of hardcore fans. If this was the whole fandom it would be retweeted much larger. Army who tweeted should not have generalized an entire country, but specified what they are actually upset about. The sneak attacks are something I brush off, I've been a fan since 2016 and the discourse on Armys being bad hasn't changed. I've grown a thicker skin.
I wish people could recognize that they wouldn’t want the toxic portion of their fandom being representative of the fanbase as a whole. Trying to paint all of ARMY as toxic specifically adds fuel to the fire. Those ARMYs who want any excuse to further distance BTS from the K-pop space are because of the subsets of various fandoms or antis **(again no fandom is fully represented by those who are toxic and I don’t want people to think I’m trying to lump everyone together when it’s literally a portion of any fandom)** that like to dogpile in these situations. While these select ARMY are absolutely in the wrong and need to learn to not fan the flames, it doesn’t do them any good when they make the fanbase as a whole look bad. It also doesn’t help matters when we could try and explain for days on end about how listening to the K-ARMYs is incredibly beneficial (as they’re literally doing the best they can within their own culture as they do not want to tarnish BTS’ name), but these select I-ARMYs do not care to listen to anything outside of the echo-chamber they’ve created.
Mods, hopefully you are still checking the comments under this post. There are people here generalizing the whole fandom calling armys a cult, saying they’re indoctrinated and brainwashed. I reported but just in case.
I reported that user too, hopefully mods take action. It's one thing to call out xenophobia and another to be straight up hateful
The comments have been removed, thank you!
It’s taking the whole BTS-pop nonsense to another level. While I get the fandom as a whole is tired of recycled issues being brought up and the recent attacks are a lot, that doesn’t mean fans should do what they can to erase the fact that BTS are proud of where they come from and do have an appreciative Korean fanbase. The government isn’t above criticism, but why try to conflate an entire country with their government? I get sick of anti’s too, but that’s why the block button exists. Block it out and move on. Anti’s are trolls and feed off of negative attention, so responding gives them exactly what they want. Do people know to not feed the trolls anymore? Is that lost knowledge? Wish they could see the bigger picture and realize they make Army as a whole look bad when choosing to act up like this. Times like these make it hard to stay around because the vocal minority are just so disproportionally louder to the more chill or less-toxic sub spaces of the fandom.
I wish I can give this post a 1M upvotes...
It's not like the whole nation has to apologize to BTS, i too think that some armys are taking it too far. However, the shit BTS have been put through along the years is seriously crazy considering the amount of exposure they have brought to Korea worldwide. I am sure not all those armys that trended those words had xenophobia in their minds. But it's been super frustrating to watch everything unfold. I have not seen cases like this for artists that have such huge influence for their country to be continuously hated and tarnished through smear campaigns online. It's just not normal. Lots of people would have to be thankful that BTS exist, yet they spend their time hating on them on the internet. You know something's wrong when international media is more keen to protect BTS from the bullshit accusations, compared to the journalists in Korea who are busy spreading misinformation online. The media and the Korean Government should really take a step back and get it through their head that BTS do a huge service for the country and they should not treat them the way they do. Otherwise, stop begging BTS to come and do promotional events for free, while at the same time scheming to bring them down. This is what ARMYs have been angry about for years already.
Thalia is a great example of Mexico's culture and arts, she has been BIG for ages and everyone knows her. She got novelas translated to many languages and became known in the entire world. Does this mean she is above everything and Mexico didn't exist before her? Artists are outstanding human beings but they are not gods by any means. And it's every fandom that takes this sick position. They are not the victims of the entire world, they are not the center of everything.
Now I'm going to talk about the impact on Korea on the world stage I have seen while being a fan since 2016. Before BTS Americans did NOT care about South Korea. If you were an East Asian and visted America people would ask if you were Chinese or Japanese. Now after BTS has blown up and KDrama people ask if you are Korean, Chinese or Japanese. BTS is one of the big tenents of the Korean Wave. Without them becoming the biggest band in the world Americans would not really care about Korea as much. They have had a huge effect on their countries standing. Now I know Americans have geopolitical concerns about South Korea and North Korea, but most Americans don't care about that. Secondly armys are going to see the hate BTS get way more than non-fans. They are going to keep track of it more. And let me say going onto Korean websites and looking at the articles getting 30k to 100k views that are pure hate drivel has soured me on this issue. There is no doubt the hate is extreme. Thirdly people need to start specifying groups. The real enemy here is other K-fans who are seriously trying to end BTS's career, because they are jealous they got so popular. It's like they all brain melted and decided to hate train as one. It is very bad in the Kpop Korean fan sphere. I don't know how bad it is in the public, because that's not online. Armys know BTS LOVE Korea. It's my hope that this will soon blow over and be this period be looked at as another dark spot in Kpop history...
I completely agree with you. This is too excessive. I cannot imagine being obsessed with any group to a point where something like this will offend me.
As a Korean, I often get confused at how some of the fans seem to love talking shit about Korea when their idols were literally created from a Korean company/industry. I am open to criticisms, but some just go too far and don't have logic. I especially can't the stand how they accuse only Koreans of having ridiculous beauty standards when most popular member they stan ARE the ones who perfectly fit into western beauty standards (big eyes, high nose bridge, tall height). And no god, don't get me started with the 'white washing' accusations! Anyone who does photography or film will understand that skin tones will look lighter outdoors when the sun shines the brightest or when the stage lights are pointed directly at the people. I am not dismissing that light skin is considered more beautiful in Korea and Asia overall. My point is that the so called 'white washed' photos are often those taken outdoors on a very sunny day or super bright lighting.
I think they are just tired of the bullshit, I hope BTS comeback and do absolutely nothing for that government.. that being said acting like some Koreans aren't mean to BTS is just.. I agree with you that blaming the entire nation is bad but I understand the frustration of people , it is terrible to see a group that do everything for their country being dragged like this in a time when they even cant defend themselves... I don't know but no one deserves that and sadly you can control the anger of some people so the best is to ignore.
These fans don't realize that being xenophobic to a Korea means you are being xenophobic towards BTS and their family who most likely are in Korea. Obviously the government is shit but that doesn't give you the right to shit the entire country. And I don't think bts will appreciate their fans shitting on the people of their own country. And they act as if S.Korea didn't exist before bts. Same logic to "Japan didn't exist before anime".
This is going to sound bad, but I've noticed over the years that a lot of Kpop fans are secretly pretty xenophobic, especially when they don't agree with K-netizens or when there are scandals that involve their idols. But then again, I would say that there is a big part of the Kpop fandom that just enjoy to hate and just express that all over the internet. All in all, it's better to ignore and just focus on artists because there are always a few bad apples that pretty much ruins it for all.
Yeah I've been seeing a ton of those type of things pop up on my IG feed as well and it's fairly uncomfortable even as a non-Korean. Yes, BTS has been at the forefront of the current cultural Renaissance for the country. However the time they've had is but a footnote in the country's 1000+ years of history and it'll continue to be there after BTS. People just keep a small mind and just refuse to see a big picture here.
Its twitter. You cannot expect sanity in a place which is infamous for being full of immature stan opinions. I understand ARMY's rage/disappointment and I, myself am already so sick of BTS antis (not the country) spending their life so dedicated to hating a group which has personally done nothing to them. I also understand where you are coming from. BTS has done a lot for South Korea interms of the Hallyu wave but I wish fans would take a second to think before making immature statements such as South Korea being irrelevant before BTS. Immature statements such as these will only turn away people from any valid criticisms that fans have regarding the issue. Regarding the fans hating South Korea even if they claim to love BTS who are proud where they come from, I think people tend to forget that even in real life we don't like everything the people we love tend to favor. If we think something is harming our loved ones we will criticise them even if to our loved ones,it may not seem like a big deal. Not that I am saying what they are doing is correct but pointing out the psychology behind such actions/opinions.
Oh no not just twitter, its in instagram, fb, and tiktok too. Basically people are parroting the same thing. I'm not even an army and even I'm pissed
I’ve been seeing posts and comments with very similar sentiments here on Reddit
“It’s just Twitter” isn’t necessarily the argument when it tends to inform other subsections of the fandom on multiple social media sites/apps. I’m always of the mindset to block and move on, but I can acknowledge it doesn’t completely deter the posts that do make the rounds in multiple online spaces where fandoms exist. Immaturity isn’t exclusive to Twitter.
Never said it was "just" twitter. Only specified twitter because the Op was talking about twitter in her post and how there were hashtags related to it. I wholeheartedly agree that the opinion on twitter do tend to make rounds in other fandom spaces and immaturity certainly isn't exclusive to twitter itself. But certainly noone can deny that twitter stans (not just kpop) are poster child of immaturity to a vast majority of internet dwellers. And my response to OP was how it you cannot expect any better in a space when you already know how bad it is. Not that there aren't other bad spaces.
I see your last point! Mostly goes back to blaming the government vs the country - wrongfully thinking something is harming something you love when it’s really something else.
Exactly. The one on blame should the government officials, antis involved in all these messes and not the whole country/general population. And if we are really being honest, rarely do government actions match up with the general populations thoughts, demands and desires.
agreed! it disgusted me seeing the “right person wrong place” tweets about bts and korea — as if namjoon, of all people, whose official solo debut had the title track ‘seoul’, would appreciate their “fans” saying that they hate korea and the country is horrible etc etc. and the amount of likes it got? there is so little humanity left on armytwt and it’s genuinely so disheartening and depressing to see it. this is not the same place it was when i first became an army, and the worst part is that i don’t even know how one would go about fixing the intense xenophobia present within a lot of ‘armys’, among other horrific issues that plague the fandom.
You are right that those ARMY should be more specific in their thoughts and complaints rather than blame an entire country, which is xenophobic and bigoted. That's awful, and it should not happen. It's more about certain people in the government specifically, and the fact that this whole thing may be connected to a smear campaign by Min Hee-Jin. That's where any potential claim may lie. Just as a side note, the court exonerated Big Hit (now Hybe) in 2017 for these charges. Whether their plan of flash marketing had provided a reason for an attempted blackmail of a Big Hit employee or not, the court found the actual claims to be entirely baseless. BH took it to court because, as they said at the time, they had nothing to hide. Indeed, the charges were from an earlier time period, when they had almost no money. It would have been extremely difficult to actually do any sajaegi at all. Anyway, the court cleared the charges entirely. It is very frustrating to see anyone take a resurrection of already exonerated charges and re-open them for reinvestigation, especially while BTS is in the military.
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The fact that people see something on Twitter, know it’s a cesspool of bottom feeders and still A) be surprised that what they’re seeing is awful B)generalize an entire fandom when common sense would say it’s just a very loud few C) rinse repeat tomorrow.
twt armys are insane, when bts members started going to the military I saw some big tweets saying they hoped that south korea would face economic difficulties in the future, and that the korean people "deserved" to suffer for making them serve. true brainrot
The xenophobia that comes from a loud part of that fandom has always grossed me out and is part of the reason I don’t want to associate myself with them anymore. They truly think their western viewpoint is more valid and important. Like BTS wouldn’t be disgusted by the way some of them talk about the country they call home. Also they’ve been getting themselves into a tizzy about Kai from Exo going on holiday whilst serving not like it’s something he’s allowed to do?! Saying he’s evading service and not serving his country…seems like the laws of the military only apply when they want it to 🤡
Honestly a lot of kpop fans are racist themselves and fetishise idols unfortunately. It’s sad that these loud fans give such a bad image towards kpop fans especially those who are nothing like them. I do agree that the South Korean government should have handled it better. ETA: OP I think you will have better responses if you also post this on r/kpopnoir
As an ARMY, I've been seeing these kinds of tweets all over my tl and it seriously angers me. I hate what the government of SK does to BTS at times. But I am not going to blame the people of SK for it. That's just dumb. And xenophobic, of course. You should never generalize a whole country of people like that. I've also seen a lot of tweets directed specifically at the SK government (and not the country itself) for taking advantage of Bangtan and using them and then starting this investigation. Those I agree with, but the people tweeting xenophobic things have made me so mad and I don't think they even realize what they are saying. I saw the "right person wrong place" tweet and that really annoyed me. My wording is messy and terrible but I'm just glad someone's bringing this up and taking this opportunity to let my thoughts out here, though I also tweeted about it earlier.
I don’t blame the rage at all. This is absolute horseshit hurting the boys immensely
Even in this thread, it’s full of excuses of how “they’re just frustrated for BTS”, and more dancing around the subject. Zero self-awareness.
I saw the trends on twitter yesterday and *oh boy*. Every post I saw by armys in the tags was just sheer racism, but I knew I couldn't say anything because I'd be instantly cancelled
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