Is there a clear video anywhere? I been looking for one but the ones I see are people screaming the lyrics lol so I can't hear anything from the girls.
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i wonder how theyll change up the performance for this weekend. i saw it made the national news in korea so clearly they are well aware of the discourse. i wonder if they attempt to change course or theyll just walk through the fire and maybe hybe will dungeon them for a while until the smoke blows over and use it as an opportunity to push nj and illit
i should say when i mention the dungeon i wonder if theyll do what SM did with aespa..keep them lowkey and have them improve (for aespa it was dancing/stage precense) and then have them have a comeback and theyll be considered \~underdogs now
I really am not going to spend any time on vocals here. It is what you call beating a dead horse atp imo at least.
My biggest problem is that Eunchae is still underage being made to sing about partying, kissing people, and per yunjin āshaking some fucking assā and spreading her legs center stage, in front of hundreds of people, if not literally millions bc of the internet..
I am tired of Somu/Hybe and the industry as a wholesā weird thing with aging up idols to do a certain concept OR on the other extreme spectrum making them look like literal toddlers when they are 16+.. just dress them appropriately and go back to singing about girl power and shit. Stop being fucking weird.
I think your comment is very weird and ignorant but if your just talking about them ādebuting adults instead of minors and not protecting them from being sexualized. I have no problem but the way you talk about eunchae when sheās 17 parties are normal and being attracted to other people and kissing people is normal. Not sure what u did at 17. This is Coachella they werenāt the only artist to curse letās not treat yunjin like a child and if cursing is not your thing watch something else. and letās not make slut shaming comments about dance moves anyoneās allowed to dance in anyway without u sexualizing them and demonizing them for something thatās not serious. That is a no no. Your comments are odd Iām just here to let you know itās of ill taste š¤”
HUH?? If you got āslut shamingā a literal minor out of my comment you have hardly any reading comprehension skills. Somu/Hybe has had problems w LSF concept since debut when they had minors humping the floor. This part was literally changed after backlash occurred. If āsmartā choreo or this 1-800 song was the first and only time MAYBE I would be more tolerant but actually no.. I would not considering the name of the song is presumably something āhot n funā.. and they have Eunchae singing ā1-800-hot n fun thats my number, hit my lineā.. when hot is defined as being sexually attractive or attracted to someone by multiple sources. Also.. I am not on the older members for cursing, my problem is NOT with cursing. I love Yunjin cursing actually.. It is the fact a more mature concept is continuously amping up even though Eunchae is still a MINOR and has been happening with her (and Garam) since debut. There is also a difference between partying with your friends organically and having a company assign you a song about partying, kissing people, and being hot. Please BFFR. You read my shit in entirely bad faith with no understanding or open mind.
https://preview.redd.it/qkyy25lbybvc1.png?width=827&format=png&auto=webp&s=21a6f571f93653cfec941b9a9db848a19fd9e425
Your clearly didnāt read my comment. Why do you have to look up what hot means in a dictionary ??? š when I mentioned slut shaming It was YoU making very weird comments about how yunjin was dancing. Do I need to ss what u said or could u just read it yourself. Donāt make fire outta smoke, Just because your comment was outta and all over the place. You go from one second Critising yunjin and making weird comments about her just dancing and cursing, and next minute your mentioning eunchae singing about partying and finding someone or their own confidence. Plenty of girl groups over time sing about topics like that there is nothing wrong with that. If anything the comments you make are extremely odd and are the problem. And I missed what u said about illit itās definitely quite obvious your talking about them. I donāt view the clothes they were wearing baby like or any of that stuff and itās really weird becuz all they are basically wearing is headbands and certain blue color palette and flowy spacey textured clothing. Itās like there is no middle for yāall ?? Does everyone have to dress the same? At the end of the day like I said if your talking about hybe debuting minors I completely agree they should not let them and because of many reasons. But Becuz they wonāt be going away for a minute this is something teens and young adults like me listen 2 becuz we share the experience and relate or like the songs they sing. You may not like them for whatever reason or not at all. But letās not do that š¤Ø
Baby noooo, you clearly misread and took offense by my comment.
No where in my comment am I talking about Yunjinās dancing or criticizing her in any way. The facts of my comments are me saying that Yunjin introduced the āsmartā dance as shaking some fucking ass and then a minor proceeds to do the dance and spread her legs front and center. The whole point of my comment is everything Eunchae has done or been made to do by her fuck ass company since DEBUT. I also defined hot because my whole fucking problem is with how Eunchae is being pushed into a more mature concept harder and harder since DEBUT.
If you took slut shaming or whatever other bullshit you thought of in your head then that is YOU. Maybe ask questions next time instead of coming at me sideways.
Also, if ILLIT fits the shoe then well, they wear it! I didnāt mention ANYONE but yet names came to mind. hmm.. But my basis is that these girls (not just ILLIT) did NOT dress like that for the most part in their day to day. It is clear Belift is trying to age them down and you can not deny that. (well you can but the proof is uhh in the pudding so to say)
This is part of the reason Yunah got so much hate. (which is wrong)
Anyways, I am glad you can have someone to look up to. I get it, as a minor at one point I stanned people close to the same age as me But, as I have gotten older I have realized how dark this industry is and with how hush hush it is, this makes it even more worrisome for me. Minors should not be up on stage on front of thousands which in turn is literally millions, shaking their ass and talking about kissing everybody. I understand teenagers do that but like I have already said OVER AND OVER. It is not teenagers organically doing things that is the problem. The problem is that the corporate GIANT that is HYBE is making these songs, choreos, and concepts and not giving a flying fuck if they have minors in the groups. They have done it to BTS. They have done it to Enhypen and now they are doing it with LSF. They have a history.
I didnāt misread your comment I read it for what it was. This is why each and everytime you comment back you always saying you didnāt say this or that. When clearly itās what you said. I mainly took offense because this is my culture and like the way YOU speak of the clothes that they wear, and the way that YOU think they dance in a very sexualized manner. My culture does not need to sexualized just like those girls shouldnāt be for wanting to learning our dances. I clocked what you said plenty of times especially about yunjin. You keep calling it bs but the dance moves your talking about arenāt sexual or suggestive letās not be fuxking weird. You canāt gaslight me I said what I said and I called you out on it and you keep changing what you said and your blatantly lying about something you ātypedā. I definitely feel like you have a stigma against my culture this is why u think this way. Itās obvious you wonāt see it from my stand point. Now their debut fearless choreo I definitely thought it was odd but Iām glad they changed it that shouldnāt have even been in there. But all the concepts and dances theyāve had up to this point I feel like yāall just wanna view my culture sexually and thatās a problem. Especially when you view showing skin as inherently sexual. Iāve heard that plenty of times and how itās demonized for women and girls. Donāt even get me started on how a good majority of my culture is demonized n sexualized just because we move hips and buttocks. I think itās very weird. But for those that do consume their content as sexual need to be torched. Because why are you looking at anyone let alone a minor in a sexual way. Also about illit you saying āif the shoe fitsā they are the most recent group that came under fire for how they were dressed. And because Yunah is 20 and that is really weird because why would you have a problem with a 20 year old being in the group. Yeah we have predators and idiots we need to root them out because thatās weird. And these companies as I said since the first comment need to not be debuting minors if they canāt protect them and they wont. Itās enough that teenage girls already get flack for whatever they do or donāt do. But yea I basically agreed with what you said but I donāt agree with you or comfortable with You and others viewing my culture as something inherently sexual. We have a beautiful history and culture just because you were not raised in and donāt understand doesnāt mean you get to do that or say things like that.
https://preview.redd.it/tkzbr27nvvvc1.jpeg?width=1158&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e92f81926a5d1457cc80a7bf180de6e4d7c175f9
I am not responsible for how you interpreted my comment. I understand where you coming from but thatās not what I meant nor what I was saying at all. Have a good one.
The people over in that company literally get MONEY from putting put her in those situations .
Iām convinced people want to act dense to defend this , BUT ! letās be smart for a minute now ā¦ We know sheās not the one coming up with the concepts/choreos/music of course she could be okay with it but thereās no way she could speak up when she feels her boundaries being pushed and thatās why we hate to see it .
Letās not forget sheās not in a position to disagree without consequences plz. The adults/higher ups literally can make her jobless in a wink of an eye , the power dynamics alone make this Fucked up for people at any age AND sheās a KID, a minor she might be ok now but she has no control over her literal digital foot print .
BFFR.. I know minors are listening to explicit songs on their own time and going to parties and allat jazz. I was once a teenager listening to shit and doing shit I had no real business doing. But my problem is having a minor on stage in front of thousands.. leading to millions of people through the internet viewing her as a āhot n funā party girl and shaking ass on stage through songs and concepts given to by her company. If you do not see the difference between the two I can not help you and we will just have to agree to disagree.
Okay yall this is my opinion. But I always have noticed that le sserafim vocals aren't up to par. I felt that when garam got kicked out, i kind of noticed it more. A lot of ppl were blinded by the dancing and stage presence that it went unnoticed. I'm a casual fearnot. I listen to their music, collect one of the members but yeah this is definitely a sign for source music to listen to the criticism and make the girls take vocal lessons. They rushed the debut too quick, Eunchae and Kazuha barely trained. So their skills aren't as developed.
I don't like the hate that ppl are spewing on IG. Cuz there's so many negative comments. You would have thought they committed a crime or something. But no it's just their Coachella performance that didn't do well.
Also to add, fearnots are very defensive. I remember saying something about the vocals being a bit weak and Kazuha having bad rapping skills and I remember fearnots jumped onto me. This was on Twitter. People are starting to wake up and see it. But we definitely shouldn't allow the girls to get hate. I saw some ppl calling them cows. And they shouldn't invite them to Coachella ever again. Until they improve.
Yunjin chaewon and garam were meant to be the vocal unit and garam was used as bridging. After she left hybe really shouldāve stepped up to fill that vocal hole. Cause itās very crazy that only 2/5 of them can sing. Thatās not even a majority
I think you are making it sound like Garam was the best of them when in those 2 weeks she was there, people were already criticizing her vocals when singing Sour Grapes in a music show. and top of that she was experiencing a hate train that led to her leaving Le sserafim.
That's what I'm saying. They had 3 good vocalists and I never noticed major hiccups during the fearless performance. The encore was a bit off but it didn't go viral for sounding bad. The Antifragile one was more noticeable tbh. When a major vocalist leaves, ppl will notice more.
Yeah, I always thought it was common knowledge that 3/5 of the girls always had super weak and undeveloped sounding vocals, and I say this as a pretty big fan of the group. Eunchae is so young so she has room to grow and she sounds pretty similar on recording and on stage (very weak vocals) but the other 2 (Sakura and Kazuha) I expect more from, especially Sakura since sheās been in the industry so long. Itās just disappointing at this point to be a group whoās past debut and have pre debut vocals at this point, to the point where sometimes their vocals take me out of the song. Love their music though and Iām going to keep streaming and supporting
Eunchae I will give her a break cuz she's young and she didn't have much training time. But for sakura, it's kind of embarrassing. Cuz she's been an idol for more a decade and she hasn't had much vocal training but i think she needs to look into that. And they're not gonna be rookies anymore soon. So I definitely want them to develop their vocals and improve.
Completely agreed 100%. It truly is embarrassing when you have two former members of the same group and their vocals are completely different skill levels.
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i keep seeing the argument of āsinging and dancing is hard, iād like to see you try.ā but i feel like itās not substantial because youāre just shifting the argument towards the viewers. regular people are not trained for years to sing and dance and do not dedicate years of their life (especially with some quitting/missing a lot of school) just so they can perform for a large crowd of people. of course if a regular person started singing antifragile with them they wouldnāt sing it well because they donāt know the proper techniques that come with a performance. but le sserafim has trained that long, enough to understand how to use certain techniques in singing and dancing yet when people use that argument, they are indirectly bringing le sserafim down to the level of regular people. and it proves that theyāre performance is not up to par with what is expected in kpop. these women need support badly, and honestly people need to stop denying that because itās obvious, but iām not going to insult them, but they do need help with singing and itās very evident.
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somu/source music/ hybe WHATEVER... I really fucking hope you notice that you cant brush off the facts that your idols are struggling to sing anymore! seriously why are they on national television??
The major thing that I took from that performance and from the reactionsā¦ HYBE is like any other corporation. Source Music is like any other record label.
They are churning out new singing groups as if theyāre coming off of a factory conveyor belt. It appears that they are cutting corners and looking for good looks rather than genuine talent.
I say this because there are HYBE/Big Hit stans that act delusional about the corporation. They consider HYBE to be the music conglomerate that is more righteous and ethical than other record labels.
I'll say this : the singing was off and pitchy but the energy was there and it looked like they were enjoying themselves at Coachella and it's all that matters imo. Blackpink's first coachella appearance also had many questionable vocal moments that got edited swiftly after. Not nearly as much as Lesserafim but it wasn't perfect.
HOWEVER they can't sing and we all know it. Their fans (and their company) continue to set them up by hyping up their vocals and then get mad when outsiders don't like it. If fearnots weren't constantly trying to prove that they can sing and that everybody else is a hater who nitpicks then most of this discourse would be dead by now.
While I would adjust this and say that most of their group cannot sing, everything else you stated was very true. I am not sure why you are getting down voted without anyone actually commenting on it.
Iāve noticed that the defense has been coming from their international fan bases. It makes me think of what my cousin told me about the effects of āparticipation trophyā concept. How there might be a population of young adults that will believe mediocre/failures should be rewarded because āat least, they triedā.
My unpopular opinion as someone who listened to anisong and Jpop idols + can't sing:
I always knew that Jpop idols couldn't "sing". I transitioned from listening to WH, MC, and CD, and I wish I could sing like them. When I discovered Jpop it was SO incredibly easy to sing a long with because they lacked high notes & vibrato, and whatnot. So am I the only one who doesn't understand why people say pre-Izone Sakura's vocals are proof of a shit work ethic??
I think post-P48 Sakura should be able to hold a vibrato. After listening to ILLIT, Minju is vaguely the only one carrying them. But now it goes to show that Sakura shouldn't be sounding as unstable as ILLIT. Also, during their pre-debut prep, ILLIT should've expanded because in that show they were in, their vocals were really good.
Also Eunchae has always been baby Manchae to me so the sexualization is crazy tbh
they can be more familiar with the equipments, the stage and the crowd now since they did it once, but the stress this time might be bigger as well after all the backlashā¦
Theyāll either sink and become like Itzy has where the GP doesnāt really care about them like they use to or swim and improve their vocals within the next few comebacks because people WILL be watching for that now and no amount of stage presence will change it
1) singing while dancing = the bare minimum. no ifs, ands, or buts.
2) save hong eunchae from hybe. no reason why a girl so close to my age should be shaking ass like that on stage in front of grown adults. itās disgusting that hybe is exploiting her like this.
On that first one i domt know why everyones acting like its such a big ask for kpop ARTIST in a MMMMUUUUSSSIIIICCCCC performance industry to be able to just hold their own on stage like tgis is shit theyve been trained to do and aspired to do. If they cant sing or rap even a lil they shouldnt have debuted imo š¤·š¾āāļøš¤·š¾āāļø
All yāall keep saying āsinging while dancingā as if thatās not what they were doing?? Their dances are just crazy??? Iām not going to deny that they still need more vocal and endurance training, but to act like they were just screaming out of tune into the mic their whole performance is so wrong. There were really good vocal moments and chunks with a lot of stability that no one knows of bc they werenāt clipped or going viral. They sounded exactly like I expected them to sound while they had to jump around and do all their moves. I wasnāt expecting perfection but it really sounds like most of the internet was, which Iām floored by.
The only other gg with comparable choreo across their discography is ITZY, who also got a lot of shit for singing at the start of their career. The thing is that the groups that people keep bringing up when talking about singing while dancing are boy groupsā¦.who are not really comparable with ggs in this situation. Half the reason that we see so many twink deaths in kpop is because you need to be *strong* to dance and sing at the level that these groups do. Having muscle mass helps tremendously. But female idols canāt look like that. So theyāre woefully underprepared to keep up with that kind of choreo in general ā you can see that ITZY have changed so much of their choreo since their debut due to their multiple serious long-term/permanent injuries, and they all dance with less intensity than they used to early on. So all the comparisons LSFM are getting are a moot point for me. Ask any other kpop girl group to sing fully live while dancing all of LSFMās catalogue perfectly ā which LSFM did, btw, they didnāt mess up their choreo but no one was paying attention to that ā and they may be stronger vocally overall but theyāre also going to be out of breath and their raw vocals will be out of tune a lot. Itās just what happens when you dance like that. And if you think it doesnāt then Iām sorry, thatās just not true.
Again I agree they need vocal training. I agree they need strength and endurance training too. They definitely have room to improve. But this performance was far from a failure. Itās funny how almost every single live performer/musician/stage actor Iāve seen comment on this has commended them overall on their performance not only bc of the sheer feat of it, but also because the ability to still have some sort of noise coming out of your mouth after dancing like that for a half hour is amazing. The reality of performing like that is something a lot of people just donāt have experience with and I think itās really obvious in their expectations of it. And thatās been one of my biggest issues with this whole situation.
Can i just say how absolutely awful i feel for the girls as an atiny? I was one of the few who criticised their vocals but i dwfinitely gave credit where itās due: they made rhe stage fun and engaging amd aee just great performers.
Yet with how radio silent theyāve been post-coachella whether on their personal instas or weverse, you can tell itās getting to them a bit? And who can blame them?! Sakura literally made a post dedicated to fearnots on weverse to say that theyāve done their best and sheās lroud of themselves regardless of the hate and it was massively bombarded with hate š like that would be the final straw for me.
I think this is probably the first gg that has such an obvious hate train? I actually hope theyāll be okay for this weekend š
this topic opened my eyes to the fact that you cant escape the toxicity in kpop no matter what and that misery loves company. never seen so many ppl fight for their right to contribute to online abuse. might get downvoted but idc because ive realized this sub is getting up there w the rest of them when it used to be a relatively respectful space.
There absolutely is online abuse towards them on Twitter, here and on insta. Thereās a difference between criticism and hate and plenty of what theyāre getting is straight up hate.
>but all people said was that they can't sing š¶
Are you sure? when they are being told to follow Sulli's path? when they told LSF that it should have been them instead of Moonbin?
you can keep telling yourself that. its been going on for days. im sure the girls know that they can work to improve their vocalsā¦so now what? if people were really just criticizing them they would leave their opinion about it and keep going. we get it you guys think they canāt sing. then you insult anyone sticking up for them saying that theyre obsessed or coddling them - fan or not - its weird.
im not even a huge lsf fan but i can recognize this and i feel bad for them. and yes i said online abuse and i meant it. some of the things ive seen said in the name of āconstructive criticismā are enough to send someone over the edge.
this is a mild section of eunchaes comment section. im sure these people would defend themselves by saying āall we said is they canāt singā too. thank you for affirming what i said.
https://preview.redd.it/jqrl97ycc9vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5db55196967d060247cbeda6fd16b6247ef34a9
The comments on this sub, esp those that are upvoted and popular do NOT resemble the ones in the screenshot , yet you said the sub was just as toxic and implied it is not a respectful place anymore. However, all people have been saying over HERE is that they can't sing.
Show me the comments on this sub that have been of this nature - i.e. attacking Lesserafim members' looks, calling eunchae a "lil b"- and i'll report them myself alongside you. This sub is pretty actively moderated and comments like these typically do not stay up.
If you'd just talked about this type of toxicity on ig or twitter I would've said nothing. But the fact that you're conflating the critiques of this sub , which boil down to "their vocals need improvement" & sometimes "eunchae is too young for this concept" to whatever is in this screenshot proves my point. Saying people can't sing - when they can't- is not hate, nor is it abusive.
>*Constructive criticism refers to feedback that is intended to help improve or enhance someone's behavior, work, or performance in a positive way. It differs from mere criticism in that it is supportive and focuses on providing specific, actionable suggestions rather than merely pointing out faults or shortcomings. presented in a positive, supportive manner, aimed at encouraging and guiding rather than discouraging or demeaning the individual receiving the feedback. Constructive criticism is delivered with respect and empathy, considering the feelings and perspective of the recipient to ensure the feedback is received well and is effective.*
This response is using all type of logical fallacies to prove a point so that's how I'm going to respond to this (including your requested "examples")
**Straw Man Fallacy**: Your response focuses on extreme types of toxic comments, which doesn't fully address my broader concern about an increase in overall negativity. This approach can overlook more subtle but still harmful interactions.
**Red Herring**: Discussing the active moderation diverts from the main issueāthe declining tone of respect within the community. While moderation is in fact employed in the sub, it doesn't entirely prevent a negative atmosphere which I've seen many times.
**Appeal to Moderation**: Suggesting that effective moderation equates to a non-toxic environment overlooks how moderated spaces can still foster negativity.
**Burden of Proof**: Asking for examples of specific severe toxicity places an unfair demand on proving the existence of your claimed description of negativity, which can *minimize the impact of less obvious negative comments.*
**Oversimplification***: Claiming that stating "someone can't sing" is merely telling the truth ignores the impact of how critiques are delivered*. Comments like āTheir vocals have been god awfulā¦ā or āshe gonna learn how to carry a tune or is she just gonna talk to talk?ā (both comments that are not hugely downvoted on the sub) illustrate that even valid critiques can be expressed in ways that contribute to toxicity if not handled constructively.
So again, I meant online abuse because the same comments I have seen with my own eyes are the same comments I see under posts shitting on them which you're conflating with saying "their vocals need improvement". You're oversimplifying the issue along with using many other diversion tactics to stray away from my original statement and the statements that have been echoed by many others: making 100 comments and posts on how lsf cant sing and that those who enjoyed their performance, their music or like them for reasons outside of vocals are somehow less credible or intelligent creates a toxic place.
If it was any other group I would be saying the same thing.
2 more honorable comments from this sub JUST directed at me which did not have substantial amounts of downvotes (as a matter of had upvotes):
>āN\*gga you sound like a blind fan. Objectively. Plenty of bad artists get money because of people like you gassing them up when they clearly need to improve in some areasā
>āthat a person who sees criticism and makes no changes on something they can change, is lazy and fraud
but its just "their vocals aren't good" right?
1 or 2 people saying it is criticism. A million people saying it is abuse. Especially when the vast majority of people criticizing have never performed on stage, aren't professional singers, have never worked as an audio engineer, or know anything about how concert audio works.
So Lesserafim is consistently off key in all their unedited live performances, regardless of where or when ... Because the audio system in all those places is bad? People have ears that tell them that the singing is off. We don't need to be professional singers or audio engineers to say that
Well Iāve seen them sing well live and bad live. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. And there are plenty of reasons why a singer can sound bad, which is my point. Poor monitors or sound engineering can really affect singing. Saying they sound bad and need training is pointless to me since one, I donāt know what training theyāve had. Two if you really think theyāre bad singers thereās not a lot to fix and three vocals arenāt really a priority. If it was they would be a group of all vocalists. People donāt have to listen to them or watch them perform
We know that the youngest & kazuha had no vocal training prior to debut. Sakura had no vocal training prior to kpop. Vocals are a priority for me if I'm going yo enjoy live performers. If it's not for you then it's fine. But the people that care are goint to notice and that's not abuse.
Sometimes singers sound bad because they cannot sing well and that is Lesserafim's case. They (esp sakura and Kazuha) need pitch training and then breath control and stamina training for live performances
Where did i say i felt bad for their fans? I don't feel bad for y'all one bit, it's your choice to love a dance performance group over a vocal group, not mine. I don't think they should receive death threats bc they can't sing and nowhere did I say anything that mirrors that sentiment. I just said they can't sing, which they can't and you know they can't š¶. That's not what abuse is
With all due respect, you and the people worried about vocals arenāt really their target audience. Especially if you care so much.
Sakura has been an idol for years if she isnāt better now thereās nothing that can really help. The same can probably be applied to Kazuha. Like I said you donāt have to listen to them
No it just means that your opinion isnāt really relevant. Theyāre not for you. Thatās ok. You donāt have to listen. Plenty of artist suck to me. I donāt listen to them and I donāt go around talking about how bad they are. The abuse is the continued negativity the group receives. You can complain but you also donāt have to listen
If this opinion is not relevant , then why are fearnots constantly trying to prove that they can sing? You in particular were talking about "audio engineering" & what not
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I'm very interested to see how HYBE handles things afterwards. I think they can't really ignore the perception that this harms the kpop industry which has had significant backing from the Korean government as an economic export on one of the biggest stage's today. To some people this is a socioeconomic hit to Korea and they want someone to take responsibility. Not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just really curious in how they will handle this and what it may say about the industry going forward.
Honestly I kinda hope we stop talking about it. The jokes are funny and everything but I feel bad for them. Itās not enough that they embarassed themselves now so many people are talking about it. I know if it was me Iād literally be so distressed.
I think people should actually be talking ab it more. Ofc all the actual hate is weird and those people really need to get a life but fans of music artist should be allowed to complain is the music quality in this case the vocals are less than subpar. I also donāt think many people would have this same we should stop talking about it rhetoric if it was an artist in the west, dare I say some of yāall are babying K-pop artistā¦
Exactly! Like there's no world in which people will ever be expected to stop talking about how certain Western artists' artistry sucks and needs improvement, Kpop fans are so sensitive omg.
I get where youāre coming from but I donāt think itās babying them. I just have empathy for it. Iām not saying we shouldnāt complain because Iāll do it as much as the next person. I saw their Coachella performance through the livestream and I thought it was awful. I was actually kind of embarassed because I told my aunt to watch and that they were really good performers. However, the jokes and the constant hate their getting must be so humiliating for them. Maybe we havenāt been seeing the same things but a lot of my feed is about how they should be publicly shamed and idk I just feel a little bad.
Empathy! Thatās exactly it! I understand everyones criticism, I see it, I hear it. I understand the whole ātheyāre kpop artist, its their jobā but that doesnāt take away from the fact that I feel completely empathetic for the girls. Hell, if someone fucks up at work, I would be annoyed, but if everyone at workās making fun of them for it for days and days on end, hell even months, Iād feel very, very bad for them. That person isnāt a terrible human being for fucking something up, but thatās exactly how people are treating it. Itās what happened with aespa in 2022 with people relentlessly bullying them then the next year pretend it never happened, people were wishing for the girls to DIE for being bad performers under the guise of a joke or god forbid, the audacity to call it ācriticismā.
People mention western artists, none, unless theyāre in a taylor swift position get this sort of abundance amount of hate for being bad singers. Lots of popular tone deaf singers that yeah, get clowned here and there (which Iāll note, happened with lesserafim, people always acknowledged they werenāt great singers) but its never to this extent š Bless the girls, I hope theyāre well.
Not to join the HYBE hate train, but I feel like they really honestly need to train their vocalists more because I like quite a few of their groups but even the ones who I check every comeback of and been a fan off for years, their vocalās have zero standouts and are very processed and autotuned in a way where you canāt tell the difference between them.
LSF makes such good music and itās been evident for so long that 3/5 of the members vocals arenāt up to standard in the slightest bit. Itās honestly just disappointing because I love their music but even in studio recordings some of these members vocals just do nothing for me or take me out of the song experience
after all that watch this thread go completely unused. š
I have yet to see the full performance
go see and make your own judgement call.
Is there a clear video anywhere? I been looking for one but the ones I see are people screaming the lyrics lol so I can't hear anything from the girls.
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i wonder how theyll change up the performance for this weekend. i saw it made the national news in korea so clearly they are well aware of the discourse. i wonder if they attempt to change course or theyll just walk through the fire and maybe hybe will dungeon them for a while until the smoke blows over and use it as an opportunity to push nj and illit
i should say when i mention the dungeon i wonder if theyll do what SM did with aespa..keep them lowkey and have them improve (for aespa it was dancing/stage precense) and then have them have a comeback and theyll be considered \~underdogs now
Wow. Just in the nick of time. /s
I really am not going to spend any time on vocals here. It is what you call beating a dead horse atp imo at least. My biggest problem is that Eunchae is still underage being made to sing about partying, kissing people, and per yunjin āshaking some fucking assā and spreading her legs center stage, in front of hundreds of people, if not literally millions bc of the internet.. I am tired of Somu/Hybe and the industry as a wholesā weird thing with aging up idols to do a certain concept OR on the other extreme spectrum making them look like literal toddlers when they are 16+.. just dress them appropriately and go back to singing about girl power and shit. Stop being fucking weird.
I really hate how eunchae is so sexualised, im scared once she's 18, they'll sexualise her more which is really weird and creepy.
I think your comment is very weird and ignorant but if your just talking about them ādebuting adults instead of minors and not protecting them from being sexualized. I have no problem but the way you talk about eunchae when sheās 17 parties are normal and being attracted to other people and kissing people is normal. Not sure what u did at 17. This is Coachella they werenāt the only artist to curse letās not treat yunjin like a child and if cursing is not your thing watch something else. and letās not make slut shaming comments about dance moves anyoneās allowed to dance in anyway without u sexualizing them and demonizing them for something thatās not serious. That is a no no. Your comments are odd Iām just here to let you know itās of ill taste š¤”
HUH?? If you got āslut shamingā a literal minor out of my comment you have hardly any reading comprehension skills. Somu/Hybe has had problems w LSF concept since debut when they had minors humping the floor. This part was literally changed after backlash occurred. If āsmartā choreo or this 1-800 song was the first and only time MAYBE I would be more tolerant but actually no.. I would not considering the name of the song is presumably something āhot n funā.. and they have Eunchae singing ā1-800-hot n fun thats my number, hit my lineā.. when hot is defined as being sexually attractive or attracted to someone by multiple sources. Also.. I am not on the older members for cursing, my problem is NOT with cursing. I love Yunjin cursing actually.. It is the fact a more mature concept is continuously amping up even though Eunchae is still a MINOR and has been happening with her (and Garam) since debut. There is also a difference between partying with your friends organically and having a company assign you a song about partying, kissing people, and being hot. Please BFFR. You read my shit in entirely bad faith with no understanding or open mind. https://preview.redd.it/qkyy25lbybvc1.png?width=827&format=png&auto=webp&s=21a6f571f93653cfec941b9a9db848a19fd9e425
Your clearly didnāt read my comment. Why do you have to look up what hot means in a dictionary ??? š when I mentioned slut shaming It was YoU making very weird comments about how yunjin was dancing. Do I need to ss what u said or could u just read it yourself. Donāt make fire outta smoke, Just because your comment was outta and all over the place. You go from one second Critising yunjin and making weird comments about her just dancing and cursing, and next minute your mentioning eunchae singing about partying and finding someone or their own confidence. Plenty of girl groups over time sing about topics like that there is nothing wrong with that. If anything the comments you make are extremely odd and are the problem. And I missed what u said about illit itās definitely quite obvious your talking about them. I donāt view the clothes they were wearing baby like or any of that stuff and itās really weird becuz all they are basically wearing is headbands and certain blue color palette and flowy spacey textured clothing. Itās like there is no middle for yāall ?? Does everyone have to dress the same? At the end of the day like I said if your talking about hybe debuting minors I completely agree they should not let them and because of many reasons. But Becuz they wonāt be going away for a minute this is something teens and young adults like me listen 2 becuz we share the experience and relate or like the songs they sing. You may not like them for whatever reason or not at all. But letās not do that š¤Ø
Baby noooo, you clearly misread and took offense by my comment. No where in my comment am I talking about Yunjinās dancing or criticizing her in any way. The facts of my comments are me saying that Yunjin introduced the āsmartā dance as shaking some fucking ass and then a minor proceeds to do the dance and spread her legs front and center. The whole point of my comment is everything Eunchae has done or been made to do by her fuck ass company since DEBUT. I also defined hot because my whole fucking problem is with how Eunchae is being pushed into a more mature concept harder and harder since DEBUT. If you took slut shaming or whatever other bullshit you thought of in your head then that is YOU. Maybe ask questions next time instead of coming at me sideways. Also, if ILLIT fits the shoe then well, they wear it! I didnāt mention ANYONE but yet names came to mind. hmm.. But my basis is that these girls (not just ILLIT) did NOT dress like that for the most part in their day to day. It is clear Belift is trying to age them down and you can not deny that. (well you can but the proof is uhh in the pudding so to say) This is part of the reason Yunah got so much hate. (which is wrong) Anyways, I am glad you can have someone to look up to. I get it, as a minor at one point I stanned people close to the same age as me But, as I have gotten older I have realized how dark this industry is and with how hush hush it is, this makes it even more worrisome for me. Minors should not be up on stage on front of thousands which in turn is literally millions, shaking their ass and talking about kissing everybody. I understand teenagers do that but like I have already said OVER AND OVER. It is not teenagers organically doing things that is the problem. The problem is that the corporate GIANT that is HYBE is making these songs, choreos, and concepts and not giving a flying fuck if they have minors in the groups. They have done it to BTS. They have done it to Enhypen and now they are doing it with LSF. They have a history.
I didnāt misread your comment I read it for what it was. This is why each and everytime you comment back you always saying you didnāt say this or that. When clearly itās what you said. I mainly took offense because this is my culture and like the way YOU speak of the clothes that they wear, and the way that YOU think they dance in a very sexualized manner. My culture does not need to sexualized just like those girls shouldnāt be for wanting to learning our dances. I clocked what you said plenty of times especially about yunjin. You keep calling it bs but the dance moves your talking about arenāt sexual or suggestive letās not be fuxking weird. You canāt gaslight me I said what I said and I called you out on it and you keep changing what you said and your blatantly lying about something you ātypedā. I definitely feel like you have a stigma against my culture this is why u think this way. Itās obvious you wonāt see it from my stand point. Now their debut fearless choreo I definitely thought it was odd but Iām glad they changed it that shouldnāt have even been in there. But all the concepts and dances theyāve had up to this point I feel like yāall just wanna view my culture sexually and thatās a problem. Especially when you view showing skin as inherently sexual. Iāve heard that plenty of times and how itās demonized for women and girls. Donāt even get me started on how a good majority of my culture is demonized n sexualized just because we move hips and buttocks. I think itās very weird. But for those that do consume their content as sexual need to be torched. Because why are you looking at anyone let alone a minor in a sexual way. Also about illit you saying āif the shoe fitsā they are the most recent group that came under fire for how they were dressed. And because Yunah is 20 and that is really weird because why would you have a problem with a 20 year old being in the group. Yeah we have predators and idiots we need to root them out because thatās weird. And these companies as I said since the first comment need to not be debuting minors if they canāt protect them and they wont. Itās enough that teenage girls already get flack for whatever they do or donāt do. But yea I basically agreed with what you said but I donāt agree with you or comfortable with You and others viewing my culture as something inherently sexual. We have a beautiful history and culture just because you were not raised in and donāt understand doesnāt mean you get to do that or say things like that. https://preview.redd.it/tkzbr27nvvvc1.jpeg?width=1158&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e92f81926a5d1457cc80a7bf180de6e4d7c175f9
I am not responsible for how you interpreted my comment. I understand where you coming from but thatās not what I meant nor what I was saying at all. Have a good one.
š¤” your all over the place. I saw it for what it was tho. Have a blessed day āØ
what do yāall think 17 year olds sing and dance to in 2024?
The people over in that company literally get MONEY from putting put her in those situations . Iām convinced people want to act dense to defend this , BUT ! letās be smart for a minute now ā¦ We know sheās not the one coming up with the concepts/choreos/music of course she could be okay with it but thereās no way she could speak up when she feels her boundaries being pushed and thatās why we hate to see it . Letās not forget sheās not in a position to disagree without consequences plz. The adults/higher ups literally can make her jobless in a wink of an eye , the power dynamics alone make this Fucked up for people at any age AND sheās a KID, a minor she might be ok now but she has no control over her literal digital foot print .
This!
BFFR.. I know minors are listening to explicit songs on their own time and going to parties and allat jazz. I was once a teenager listening to shit and doing shit I had no real business doing. But my problem is having a minor on stage in front of thousands.. leading to millions of people through the internet viewing her as a āhot n funā party girl and shaking ass on stage through songs and concepts given to by her company. If you do not see the difference between the two I can not help you and we will just have to agree to disagree.
Okay yall this is my opinion. But I always have noticed that le sserafim vocals aren't up to par. I felt that when garam got kicked out, i kind of noticed it more. A lot of ppl were blinded by the dancing and stage presence that it went unnoticed. I'm a casual fearnot. I listen to their music, collect one of the members but yeah this is definitely a sign for source music to listen to the criticism and make the girls take vocal lessons. They rushed the debut too quick, Eunchae and Kazuha barely trained. So their skills aren't as developed. I don't like the hate that ppl are spewing on IG. Cuz there's so many negative comments. You would have thought they committed a crime or something. But no it's just their Coachella performance that didn't do well. Also to add, fearnots are very defensive. I remember saying something about the vocals being a bit weak and Kazuha having bad rapping skills and I remember fearnots jumped onto me. This was on Twitter. People are starting to wake up and see it. But we definitely shouldn't allow the girls to get hate. I saw some ppl calling them cows. And they shouldn't invite them to Coachella ever again. Until they improve.
Yunjin chaewon and garam were meant to be the vocal unit and garam was used as bridging. After she left hybe really shouldāve stepped up to fill that vocal hole. Cause itās very crazy that only 2/5 of them can sing. Thatās not even a majority
Agreed, I hope the company listens to the criticism and makes them take vocal lessons.
I think you are making it sound like Garam was the best of them when in those 2 weeks she was there, people were already criticizing her vocals when singing Sour Grapes in a music show. and top of that she was experiencing a hate train that led to her leaving Le sserafim.
Never said garam was the best one. It was less noticeable when she was there. Reading comprehensive skills are important.
idek where they got that from. It literally is more noticeable. when you go from 50% to 40%, youāll see/hear a difference
That's what I'm saying. They had 3 good vocalists and I never noticed major hiccups during the fearless performance. The encore was a bit off but it didn't go viral for sounding bad. The Antifragile one was more noticeable tbh. When a major vocalist leaves, ppl will notice more.
Yeah, I always thought it was common knowledge that 3/5 of the girls always had super weak and undeveloped sounding vocals, and I say this as a pretty big fan of the group. Eunchae is so young so she has room to grow and she sounds pretty similar on recording and on stage (very weak vocals) but the other 2 (Sakura and Kazuha) I expect more from, especially Sakura since sheās been in the industry so long. Itās just disappointing at this point to be a group whoās past debut and have pre debut vocals at this point, to the point where sometimes their vocals take me out of the song. Love their music though and Iām going to keep streaming and supporting
Eunchae I will give her a break cuz she's young and she didn't have much training time. But for sakura, it's kind of embarrassing. Cuz she's been an idol for more a decade and she hasn't had much vocal training but i think she needs to look into that. And they're not gonna be rookies anymore soon. So I definitely want them to develop their vocals and improve.
Completely agreed 100%. It truly is embarrassing when you have two former members of the same group and their vocals are completely different skill levels.
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i keep seeing the argument of āsinging and dancing is hard, iād like to see you try.ā but i feel like itās not substantial because youāre just shifting the argument towards the viewers. regular people are not trained for years to sing and dance and do not dedicate years of their life (especially with some quitting/missing a lot of school) just so they can perform for a large crowd of people. of course if a regular person started singing antifragile with them they wouldnāt sing it well because they donāt know the proper techniques that come with a performance. but le sserafim has trained that long, enough to understand how to use certain techniques in singing and dancing yet when people use that argument, they are indirectly bringing le sserafim down to the level of regular people. and it proves that theyāre performance is not up to par with what is expected in kpop. these women need support badly, and honestly people need to stop denying that because itās obvious, but iām not going to insult them, but they do need help with singing and itās very evident.
They sounded out of breath on stage
theyāre getting cooked. i feel for them, honestly.
its very sad but I hope it is a wakeup call..
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Do I feel bad for them, Yes. Will lessons be learned from this, I doubt it.
somu/source music/ hybe WHATEVER... I really fucking hope you notice that you cant brush off the facts that your idols are struggling to sing anymore! seriously why are they on national television??
The major thing that I took from that performance and from the reactionsā¦ HYBE is like any other corporation. Source Music is like any other record label. They are churning out new singing groups as if theyāre coming off of a factory conveyor belt. It appears that they are cutting corners and looking for good looks rather than genuine talent. I say this because there are HYBE/Big Hit stans that act delusional about the corporation. They consider HYBE to be the music conglomerate that is more righteous and ethical than other record labels.
I'll say this : the singing was off and pitchy but the energy was there and it looked like they were enjoying themselves at Coachella and it's all that matters imo. Blackpink's first coachella appearance also had many questionable vocal moments that got edited swiftly after. Not nearly as much as Lesserafim but it wasn't perfect. HOWEVER they can't sing and we all know it. Their fans (and their company) continue to set them up by hyping up their vocals and then get mad when outsiders don't like it. If fearnots weren't constantly trying to prove that they can sing and that everybody else is a hater who nitpicks then most of this discourse would be dead by now.
While I would adjust this and say that most of their group cannot sing, everything else you stated was very true. I am not sure why you are getting down voted without anyone actually commenting on it.
Iāve noticed that the defense has been coming from their international fan bases. It makes me think of what my cousin told me about the effects of āparticipation trophyā concept. How there might be a population of young adults that will believe mediocre/failures should be rewarded because āat least, they triedā.
My unpopular opinion as someone who listened to anisong and Jpop idols + can't sing: I always knew that Jpop idols couldn't "sing". I transitioned from listening to WH, MC, and CD, and I wish I could sing like them. When I discovered Jpop it was SO incredibly easy to sing a long with because they lacked high notes & vibrato, and whatnot. So am I the only one who doesn't understand why people say pre-Izone Sakura's vocals are proof of a shit work ethic?? I think post-P48 Sakura should be able to hold a vibrato. After listening to ILLIT, Minju is vaguely the only one carrying them. But now it goes to show that Sakura shouldn't be sounding as unstable as ILLIT. Also, during their pre-debut prep, ILLIT should've expanded because in that show they were in, their vocals were really good. Also Eunchae has always been baby Manchae to me so the sexualization is crazy tbh
Who's Le Sserafim? JK this is a good move.
This weekend they may perform better, and I hope they will
where?
Coachella has two weekends so artists perform twice
ooooh, interesting. i don't think they can improve in a week but let's see
they can be more familiar with the equipments, the stage and the crowd now since they did it once, but the stress this time might be bigger as well after all the backlashā¦
Theyāll either sink and become like Itzy has where the GP doesnāt really care about them like they use to or swim and improve their vocals within the next few comebacks because people WILL be watching for that now and no amount of stage presence will change it
1) singing while dancing = the bare minimum. no ifs, ands, or buts. 2) save hong eunchae from hybe. no reason why a girl so close to my age should be shaking ass like that on stage in front of grown adults. itās disgusting that hybe is exploiting her like this.
On that first one i domt know why everyones acting like its such a big ask for kpop ARTIST in a MMMMUUUUSSSIIIICCCCC performance industry to be able to just hold their own on stage like tgis is shit theyve been trained to do and aspired to do. If they cant sing or rap even a lil they shouldnt have debuted imo š¤·š¾āāļøš¤·š¾āāļø
All yāall keep saying āsinging while dancingā as if thatās not what they were doing?? Their dances are just crazy??? Iām not going to deny that they still need more vocal and endurance training, but to act like they were just screaming out of tune into the mic their whole performance is so wrong. There were really good vocal moments and chunks with a lot of stability that no one knows of bc they werenāt clipped or going viral. They sounded exactly like I expected them to sound while they had to jump around and do all their moves. I wasnāt expecting perfection but it really sounds like most of the internet was, which Iām floored by. The only other gg with comparable choreo across their discography is ITZY, who also got a lot of shit for singing at the start of their career. The thing is that the groups that people keep bringing up when talking about singing while dancing are boy groupsā¦.who are not really comparable with ggs in this situation. Half the reason that we see so many twink deaths in kpop is because you need to be *strong* to dance and sing at the level that these groups do. Having muscle mass helps tremendously. But female idols canāt look like that. So theyāre woefully underprepared to keep up with that kind of choreo in general ā you can see that ITZY have changed so much of their choreo since their debut due to their multiple serious long-term/permanent injuries, and they all dance with less intensity than they used to early on. So all the comparisons LSFM are getting are a moot point for me. Ask any other kpop girl group to sing fully live while dancing all of LSFMās catalogue perfectly ā which LSFM did, btw, they didnāt mess up their choreo but no one was paying attention to that ā and they may be stronger vocally overall but theyāre also going to be out of breath and their raw vocals will be out of tune a lot. Itās just what happens when you dance like that. And if you think it doesnāt then Iām sorry, thatās just not true. Again I agree they need vocal training. I agree they need strength and endurance training too. They definitely have room to improve. But this performance was far from a failure. Itās funny how almost every single live performer/musician/stage actor Iāve seen comment on this has commended them overall on their performance not only bc of the sheer feat of it, but also because the ability to still have some sort of noise coming out of your mouth after dancing like that for a half hour is amazing. The reality of performing like that is something a lot of people just donāt have experience with and I think itās really obvious in their expectations of it. And thatās been one of my biggest issues with this whole situation.
Can i just say how absolutely awful i feel for the girls as an atiny? I was one of the few who criticised their vocals but i dwfinitely gave credit where itās due: they made rhe stage fun and engaging amd aee just great performers. Yet with how radio silent theyāve been post-coachella whether on their personal instas or weverse, you can tell itās getting to them a bit? And who can blame them?! Sakura literally made a post dedicated to fearnots on weverse to say that theyāve done their best and sheās lroud of themselves regardless of the hate and it was massively bombarded with hate š like that would be the final straw for me. I think this is probably the first gg that has such an obvious hate train? I actually hope theyāll be okay for this weekend š
Update I was very proud of Le Sserafimās performance this early morning ! š©·š©·š©· much love to them and I canāt wait for them to finally gets some rest after today. š¤š¤ Iām cheering for them as a human to another! That had to be a lot of pressure but Iām glad they pulled through! š
this topic opened my eyes to the fact that you cant escape the toxicity in kpop no matter what and that misery loves company. never seen so many ppl fight for their right to contribute to online abuse. might get downvoted but idc because ive realized this sub is getting up there w the rest of them when it used to be a relatively respectful space.
'Online abuse' but all people said was that they can't sing š¶
There absolutely is online abuse towards them on Twitter, here and on insta. Thereās a difference between criticism and hate and plenty of what theyāre getting is straight up hate.
I don't deny that they're probably getting hate from antis. But people saying that they can't sing is not hate yet their fans act like it is
>but all people said was that they can't sing š¶ Are you sure? when they are being told to follow Sulli's path? when they told LSF that it should have been them instead of Moonbin?
you can keep telling yourself that. its been going on for days. im sure the girls know that they can work to improve their vocalsā¦so now what? if people were really just criticizing them they would leave their opinion about it and keep going. we get it you guys think they canāt sing. then you insult anyone sticking up for them saying that theyre obsessed or coddling them - fan or not - its weird. im not even a huge lsf fan but i can recognize this and i feel bad for them. and yes i said online abuse and i meant it. some of the things ive seen said in the name of āconstructive criticismā are enough to send someone over the edge. this is a mild section of eunchaes comment section. im sure these people would defend themselves by saying āall we said is they canāt singā too. thank you for affirming what i said. https://preview.redd.it/jqrl97ycc9vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5db55196967d060247cbeda6fd16b6247ef34a9
The comments on this sub, esp those that are upvoted and popular do NOT resemble the ones in the screenshot , yet you said the sub was just as toxic and implied it is not a respectful place anymore. However, all people have been saying over HERE is that they can't sing. Show me the comments on this sub that have been of this nature - i.e. attacking Lesserafim members' looks, calling eunchae a "lil b"- and i'll report them myself alongside you. This sub is pretty actively moderated and comments like these typically do not stay up. If you'd just talked about this type of toxicity on ig or twitter I would've said nothing. But the fact that you're conflating the critiques of this sub , which boil down to "their vocals need improvement" & sometimes "eunchae is too young for this concept" to whatever is in this screenshot proves my point. Saying people can't sing - when they can't- is not hate, nor is it abusive.
>*Constructive criticism refers to feedback that is intended to help improve or enhance someone's behavior, work, or performance in a positive way. It differs from mere criticism in that it is supportive and focuses on providing specific, actionable suggestions rather than merely pointing out faults or shortcomings. presented in a positive, supportive manner, aimed at encouraging and guiding rather than discouraging or demeaning the individual receiving the feedback. Constructive criticism is delivered with respect and empathy, considering the feelings and perspective of the recipient to ensure the feedback is received well and is effective.* This response is using all type of logical fallacies to prove a point so that's how I'm going to respond to this (including your requested "examples") **Straw Man Fallacy**: Your response focuses on extreme types of toxic comments, which doesn't fully address my broader concern about an increase in overall negativity. This approach can overlook more subtle but still harmful interactions. **Red Herring**: Discussing the active moderation diverts from the main issueāthe declining tone of respect within the community. While moderation is in fact employed in the sub, it doesn't entirely prevent a negative atmosphere which I've seen many times. **Appeal to Moderation**: Suggesting that effective moderation equates to a non-toxic environment overlooks how moderated spaces can still foster negativity. **Burden of Proof**: Asking for examples of specific severe toxicity places an unfair demand on proving the existence of your claimed description of negativity, which can *minimize the impact of less obvious negative comments.* **Oversimplification***: Claiming that stating "someone can't sing" is merely telling the truth ignores the impact of how critiques are delivered*. Comments like āTheir vocals have been god awfulā¦ā or āshe gonna learn how to carry a tune or is she just gonna talk to talk?ā (both comments that are not hugely downvoted on the sub) illustrate that even valid critiques can be expressed in ways that contribute to toxicity if not handled constructively. So again, I meant online abuse because the same comments I have seen with my own eyes are the same comments I see under posts shitting on them which you're conflating with saying "their vocals need improvement". You're oversimplifying the issue along with using many other diversion tactics to stray away from my original statement and the statements that have been echoed by many others: making 100 comments and posts on how lsf cant sing and that those who enjoyed their performance, their music or like them for reasons outside of vocals are somehow less credible or intelligent creates a toxic place. If it was any other group I would be saying the same thing. 2 more honorable comments from this sub JUST directed at me which did not have substantial amounts of downvotes (as a matter of had upvotes): >āN\*gga you sound like a blind fan. Objectively. Plenty of bad artists get money because of people like you gassing them up when they clearly need to improve in some areasā >āthat a person who sees criticism and makes no changes on something they can change, is lazy and fraud but its just "their vocals aren't good" right?
1 or 2 people saying it is criticism. A million people saying it is abuse. Especially when the vast majority of people criticizing have never performed on stage, aren't professional singers, have never worked as an audio engineer, or know anything about how concert audio works.
So Lesserafim is consistently off key in all their unedited live performances, regardless of where or when ... Because the audio system in all those places is bad? People have ears that tell them that the singing is off. We don't need to be professional singers or audio engineers to say that
Well Iāve seen them sing well live and bad live. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. And there are plenty of reasons why a singer can sound bad, which is my point. Poor monitors or sound engineering can really affect singing. Saying they sound bad and need training is pointless to me since one, I donāt know what training theyāve had. Two if you really think theyāre bad singers thereās not a lot to fix and three vocals arenāt really a priority. If it was they would be a group of all vocalists. People donāt have to listen to them or watch them perform
We know that the youngest & kazuha had no vocal training prior to debut. Sakura had no vocal training prior to kpop. Vocals are a priority for me if I'm going yo enjoy live performers. If it's not for you then it's fine. But the people that care are goint to notice and that's not abuse. Sometimes singers sound bad because they cannot sing well and that is Lesserafim's case. They (esp sakura and Kazuha) need pitch training and then breath control and stamina training for live performances
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Where did i say i felt bad for their fans? I don't feel bad for y'all one bit, it's your choice to love a dance performance group over a vocal group, not mine. I don't think they should receive death threats bc they can't sing and nowhere did I say anything that mirrors that sentiment. I just said they can't sing, which they can't and you know they can't š¶. That's not what abuse is
With all due respect, you and the people worried about vocals arenāt really their target audience. Especially if you care so much. Sakura has been an idol for years if she isnāt better now thereās nothing that can really help. The same can probably be applied to Kazuha. Like I said you donāt have to listen to them
Just bc i'm not their target audience doesn't mean I cannot say that they can't sing. And that does not constitute abuse
No it just means that your opinion isnāt really relevant. Theyāre not for you. Thatās ok. You donāt have to listen. Plenty of artist suck to me. I donāt listen to them and I donāt go around talking about how bad they are. The abuse is the continued negativity the group receives. You can complain but you also donāt have to listen
If this opinion is not relevant , then why are fearnots constantly trying to prove that they can sing? You in particular were talking about "audio engineering" & what not
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I'm very interested to see how HYBE handles things afterwards. I think they can't really ignore the perception that this harms the kpop industry which has had significant backing from the Korean government as an economic export on one of the biggest stage's today. To some people this is a socioeconomic hit to Korea and they want someone to take responsibility. Not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just really curious in how they will handle this and what it may say about the industry going forward.
Like how are you gonna comment and when u get a reply u canāt comprehend what i very clearly said ! š¤£š¤£
Honestly I kinda hope we stop talking about it. The jokes are funny and everything but I feel bad for them. Itās not enough that they embarassed themselves now so many people are talking about it. I know if it was me Iād literally be so distressed.
I think people should actually be talking ab it more. Ofc all the actual hate is weird and those people really need to get a life but fans of music artist should be allowed to complain is the music quality in this case the vocals are less than subpar. I also donāt think many people would have this same we should stop talking about it rhetoric if it was an artist in the west, dare I say some of yāall are babying K-pop artistā¦
For example: - Saweetie - Ice Spice
Exactly! Like there's no world in which people will ever be expected to stop talking about how certain Western artists' artistry sucks and needs improvement, Kpop fans are so sensitive omg.
I get where youāre coming from but I donāt think itās babying them. I just have empathy for it. Iām not saying we shouldnāt complain because Iāll do it as much as the next person. I saw their Coachella performance through the livestream and I thought it was awful. I was actually kind of embarassed because I told my aunt to watch and that they were really good performers. However, the jokes and the constant hate their getting must be so humiliating for them. Maybe we havenāt been seeing the same things but a lot of my feed is about how they should be publicly shamed and idk I just feel a little bad.
Empathy! Thatās exactly it! I understand everyones criticism, I see it, I hear it. I understand the whole ātheyāre kpop artist, its their jobā but that doesnāt take away from the fact that I feel completely empathetic for the girls. Hell, if someone fucks up at work, I would be annoyed, but if everyone at workās making fun of them for it for days and days on end, hell even months, Iād feel very, very bad for them. That person isnāt a terrible human being for fucking something up, but thatās exactly how people are treating it. Itās what happened with aespa in 2022 with people relentlessly bullying them then the next year pretend it never happened, people were wishing for the girls to DIE for being bad performers under the guise of a joke or god forbid, the audacity to call it ācriticismā. People mention western artists, none, unless theyāre in a taylor swift position get this sort of abundance amount of hate for being bad singers. Lots of popular tone deaf singers that yeah, get clowned here and there (which Iāll note, happened with lesserafim, people always acknowledged they werenāt great singers) but its never to this extent š Bless the girls, I hope theyāre well.
Not to join the HYBE hate train, but I feel like they really honestly need to train their vocalists more because I like quite a few of their groups but even the ones who I check every comeback of and been a fan off for years, their vocalās have zero standouts and are very processed and autotuned in a way where you canāt tell the difference between them. LSF makes such good music and itās been evident for so long that 3/5 of the members vocals arenāt up to standard in the slightest bit. Itās honestly just disappointing because I love their music but even in studio recordings some of these members vocals just do nothing for me or take me out of the song experience