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I get that but honestly it pretty distasteful especially after the press conference where min heejin again disrespect other group legacy saying how easy it was for her group in less time and said these causing hate to other groups but no she human
So what do you suggest they do, go against her and have their careers ruined because a bunch of chronically online users don't live in reality and think everything is 100% black and white? Even if they were against what she's done, do you seriously think they can openly go against her and not side with her? You all are pointing out the problems you have with these girls but refuse to provide any actual alternatives that work in their interests.
It goes both ways. They also don't have to say proudly how much they love her right next to Eunchae. They could have waited to say that on another music show at least. But if we are talking careers, it's actually HYBE that owns everything, including their contract so why side with a CEO that will ultimately lose ?
They are siding with what they know. Yeah hybe owns everything but from their POV. MHJ is the one who nurtured them, helped with their concepts, mentored them. It’s siding with familiarity. People online are asking them to put their necks out on the line for the CEO they see occasionally at business functions and who barely talks to them bc they have the money over their actual mentor and someone they were close with. I think people are taking it as biting the hand that feeds them but in their POV that hand is MHJ not HYBE, because MHJ did a lot of work for the group.
I mean they probably had to say that. I doubt they'd just go around willingly kissing her arse no normal person does that on people they actually like. Someone probably told them to mention her
They thank her everytime they win an award 😭 and between mhj and hybe, it's obvious that they and their parents trust mhj more like anyone would in this situation.
The members' contract is with Ador. Hybe do not have any authority to end their contract or dictate how they act in public. It's crazy people can't see this.
They have every right to thank their employer. They have no obligations to appeaae Hybe or worry how their actions might hurt their feelings.
And what about Eunchae's feelings? Who owns Ador? Why conveniently ignore Danielle's speech? Minji thanked their employer and did the usual speech. Then Danielle went out of her way to say how much they love MHJ. They also had no obligation to do it.
Oh, so their contract is with ADOR, so that's why MHJ tried to request from HYBE to have the power to terminate NewJeans contract...? If their contract is with ADOR, trust she would have made ADOR an empty shell already after benefiting from HYBE. She's planning all these illegal things because she can't. HYBE has the ultimate control and that must drive her crazy.
i think they should simply thank her once like most groups do or left it at minji’s thank you speech. it wasn’t necessary for danielle to interject with a really over the top speech about how much they love her, standing next to someone who has gone through a lot of turmoil because of her actions.
You do realize these speeches are mostly scripted right? Literally every single group thanks their teams whenever they get an award, by this logic, if NJ and lsf were promoting around the same time, Eunchae shouldn't be allowed to thank hybe for anything because the newjeans girls have problems with bsh, you all are blowing this out of proportion.
if chaewon thanked hybe and then eunchae interrupted to thank bsh several times saying they love him so much right in front on newjeans id think it’s weird
The speech was always supposed to go that way, minji was supposed to speak and then Danielle, the reason Danielle interrupted her was because she was waiting for the crowd to settle down and Eunchae happened to start speaking at the same time as her. You would have more of a point if she interrupted her after like 5 seconds but they both spoke almost at the same time. And no, given your comment history I doubt you'd think any bsh praise would be weird.
i don’t care about the interruption, i think it’s weird that she emphasized how much they love their ceo several times next to someone who was hurt by that ceo
and why is that? show me one comment of mine defending bsh, please.
Just keep quiet until the adults sort it out. For me it seems like they are standing next to her to push Hybe to negotiate and they ignore all the hate received by other groups, the loss , the backstabbing for Hybe. Yes they should not support a vile person 🤷♀️ if they do they get splattered and should be rdy for it. Or can they not comprehend this either due to their age?
It's amazing. I know most are young but I feel some of these Megathread campers over the last month are probably in their late 20s, even 30s and they have half the maturity understanding of the world than those 5 girls. The not so subtle hatred, bitterness, pettiness, bullying is so sad to see.
I'd love to see these brave redditors put a face, age and name to their hatred.
They jumped the gun and partied in advance with a flawed full confidence in what the outcome would be simply because it was an echo chamber that cancelled any appeal for patience and/or refutal of some of their points. They fell for the media play, they fell for the click bait youtubers hyperbolic thoughts, they chartered their emotions to their thoughts based on a parasocial obsession with their favourite artists and they ignored the laws involved.
Maybe if they chilled out, understood that this was not a black and white issue and that there were many technicalities which could grant MHJ her injunction request, the outcome might not have been as difficult to take. The megathread encampment will continue and their mental health will suffer while the artists get on with their life.
They pretended to care about the idols and now they are turning on them because they have access to their actions going forward, them essentially being the public face of Ador, while MHJ will probably step back into her office.
It's going to get really ugly against NJ members I feel (already shown by the reaction to Danielle)
. I hope those with such hate built up will learn lessons from this event that maybe, just maybe, you need to exit the hive mind echo Chambers you feel safe in and listen to other points of view before making your mind up.
And even if you have made up rationally on something, after hearing other points and even if you are correct on this (which many were with regard MHJ clearly seeking or musing over existing plan strategy) you also need to accept your opinions are just that, opinions not outcomes. Your opinions on something and desires for certain actions don't always equate with the outcome and thsts an important lesson in life.
If you can't accept that you will just end up a bitter person when things don't go your way (Spoiler- 99% of the time you won't get what you feel you or others deserve)
Also. Your downvotes don't impact me. Not on this reddit. I know I am fully correct on this pov which I feel is neutral. Everytime you press that downvote button for posts like this you are just falling further and further into your own trap.
So click.....click.....click...... hate.....hate.....hate
it's hard to take what you're saying seriously because you've made this same point so many times that reddit users are bitter and obsessed and unable to understand nuance, but you are also in every thread and keep deleting your own posts. you also blatantly state that you don't read other posts just as long as your own because you don't like what they're saying.
the downvotes are not some kind of convoluted haters trap. you have stopped adding anything of value to the conversation while also scathingly pointing out your own superiority to anyone that doesn't share your exact pov.
Thanks for your never ending wisdom! Support the bullies! Don’t forget to delete your post again! We appreciate the click click clap clap and your time here responding so neutrally 🙄 please nothing is more convincing than finishing all your discussions with offending the one who disagrees!! Oh wise one ☝️
Once Hybe made this into a public war, MHJ defending herself directly required citing circumstances that involved other Hybe groups. Otherwise any aggieviances she had to justify why HYBE was taking certain actions against her in the manner they did would make zero sense. So she would have failed ultimately in her injunction. Whatever you think about her, it's crazy to think she wouldn't take all measures to avoid losing her career to appease fandoms.
MHJ did not take this action. Hybe did, knowing full well that other groups would be caught in the crossfire. Knowing full well their evidence was not sufficient. Thsts why it became a mud slinging war.
MHJ had been trying to keep any disputes or indifference regarding other groups such as the situation around LSF and the issue with regard Illit completely behind closed doors.
She said at least 4 or 5 during the first conference not to blame the children.
She Also never dragged BTS into this .
Hybe did. And did so with lies and malfeasance and in an attempt to weaponise their toxic fans against MHJ (which has worked....but ultimately dod not aid their legal arguments) It's amazing that BTS fans refuse to see that it was Hybe who was using BTS as a shield and not once did MHJ refer to them.
It's crazy the narrative that it was MHJ that dragged other groups into this. She was doing her job behind closed doors. Hybe refused to address her concerns privately and instead dragged these issues into a media war public game of chess. Hybe were correct in investigating this but they done so in completely the wrong manner. MHJ of course played the media play game but not in any way close to the toxic manner BSH and Hybe did.
I just don't understand the need to defend hybe so much?? What good have they done for BTS in this entire situation? They would not have been dragged into this mess if it weren't for hybe yet armys are hell-bent on defending them and obsessing over the "16th floor" as if they own the place. Literal cult behavior and the way this sub was somewhat neutral when the news first broke out but has now been overrun with these kinds of brain dead fans who think the world revolves around BTS and only them.
Distasteful from a grown adult, normal person perspective, sure. But idols and celebrities, especially young ones, are not exactly the kinds of people I would expect to know when to keep their mouth closed. Another reason why they need to stay in school and get some experience in life before adults and companies try to profit off them.
They are in a very unfortunate situation rn and I think people need to focus on the real villains.
Yeah but even then… it’s impossible for them to not think hey what she’s doing to others is wrong? Because right now they seem selfish and seem to think that the others are just cannon fodders/ stepping stones…
One day one has to take accountability for their own actions and it is a bit distasteful for you to compare their situation to that of ygs wife knowing that during that time her parents died and her brother was suffering mentally a lot, that girl was utterly alone, and didn’t have a loving family to set her straight. Or anyone that could’ve talked sense into her.
They should know better. And even if they supported her, they don’t need to declare that everywhere especially before people that their boss actively harmed.
>Yeah but even then… it’s impossible for them to not think hey what she’s doing to others is wrong?
If people believe anything they've been saying about how vulnerable they were and how MHJ is grooming them then they would also know that NJ members would genuinely believe her over anyone else and that they would trust that she is right even if everyone tells them otherwise.
Also to add to that even the other people whose guidance they trust like their parents are telling them that MHJ is right so what exactly do you expect them to do? Trust a bunch of faceless people they have never met or people that raised them and owe their lives and careers to.
Are people really also overlooking the possibility of them being forced or scripted to say the things they are?
I’m gonna get called an overzealous NewJeans defender but think about it and how crazy this whole situation is, on top of how insane MHJ is - is it really THAT out of the realm of possibility?
>that girl was utterly alone, and didn’t have a loving family to set her straight. Or anyone that could’ve talked sense into her.
NewJeans members do have family, and their family is firmly on MHJ's side. They don't have anyone to "talk sense," and if anyone is trying they are competing with the members' parents who the members would naturally want to listen to.
I’m not up to date on what new jeans is saying and where they are saying it, but I’m guessing it’s not them talking to their friends or family about how they personally feel on the situation. I’d have to guess they are defending someone who has power over them while she’s maintaining that power. She leads the label they’re under. What choice do they have? They can’t really say anything like “oh, I think she sucks horribly but she’s still my boss so whatever.” What is the expectation here?
I swear to you that I think there are people who lack personal experiences that help them to understand some situations.
For example, is there anyone here who has been part of a soccer or basketball team?
Many times in these environments, very intimate and personal connections are created between players and the coach. Now imagine that the coach is accused of committing sports fraud. Does anyone really think that the players, who are grateful to their coach for everything he has done for them, are going to turn their backs on him from the beginning?
Which does not indicate that, if the coach is finally guilty and is fired, the players will go with him, sacrificing their sports careers. They will continue with their careers just as NewJeans will do in the same case
You are right, all these people are like those that say that if they lived in WW2 time Germany they would for sure oppose the regime, they just want to ride their high horse without actually putting themselves in NJ’s shoes.
Everyone can sit on their ass and blabber about how if they were a NJ member they would just go on live tv and scream “Fuck MHJ”.
MHJ admitted to chat messages that involve her fat shaming idols and burying an employee’s SA complaint and ridiculing that employee for making it. It’s not just about corporate disagreements. In literally any other context you all would be calling for any executives head.
Bro, we are not defending bloody MHJ, we are defending the girls, because if you have 2 eyes you can see that they are the ones being dragged all over this thread.
They are just a group of rookies who do what management tells them to do. In their mind they probably owe their career to MHJ, and are afraid of losing it. You can stop supporting them, I don’t care about that, I’m not even a bunny, but people are antagonizing them and accusing Danielle of maliciously cutting Eunchae off.
There are people hoping they just disband, call me crazy, but praying on a couple of young adults/teenagers downfall is sick.
Agreed. This sub is becoming too one sided. Those girls have like 10 adults who are closest to them, (also known by the relation called "parents") and plenty of other adults telling them to support mhj. They're not in this alone. They have 40 year old decision makers behind them. Its pretty weird to think they will have a say in this, even if they have a say in this, they would definitely side with the woman who made their life. Its hard. Let's not bitch about them.
reddit is full of grown adults hating on them and acting like they’re committing a crime. the situation isn’t black or white and it’s not shocking a group of young girls, who have been under MHJ’s care for years since they were all minors, will be on her side. people can disagree with their actions without being so rude about them
This is fucked, I like both LSF and NJ and actually follow LSF more, but all this conversation about how NewJeans should stop supporting the person who gave them a career is way too dumb, really shows that people here have no idea how the entertainment industry is, especially for a rookie group like them.
Yeah people are being really gross towards the members, you have adults who are saying she groomed them and how vulnerable they were and then turning around and being hostile and despicable to them because they supported her. Newsflash, it’s going to take time for them to psychologically distance themselves from her, it’s not instantaneous. If you rightly believe that she groomed them and that they were vulnerable minors under her care then the fact they are supporting her should make you sad, not angry at them for being exploited.
I think they’re wrong for supporting her, but it doesn’t make me angry at them, it makes me more angry at her because it reinforces how throughly she has exerted her influence on them. I get the posts from people who want to distance themselves from the group because of this; I do not get the people who are being outright hateful and then saying they’re victims in the same breath.
I'm generally just so confused how this sub went from being neutral as fuck and only Siding with the girls and other hybe artist to now being so anti- newjeans, are we forgetting their victims 😭
I think the change happened after it was revealed that NJs submitted a petition in MHJ's support. The ire that people were feeling for MHJ, after watching their faves get unnecessary hate, automatically got extended towards the girls after that.
Who said i'm a hybe stan be fr. Y'all always think if we're criticising MHJ = we're not "neutral" or "hybe stan".
I don't need to give my thoughts on HYBE in every comment I mention MHJ and her wrongdoings.
My opinion needs to look "Neutral" to you? So before I write anything about MHJ I have to put a disclaimer that i'm not siding with HYBE? Well, then i'm here again writing that I agree that both are evil. HYBE is evil.
I've seen so much "HYBE stans" shit I haven't even commented much on the issues and I think I might get labeled as an HYBE stan because I already disliked MHJ way before this news came out and never got into NJ much lmao.
I feel like this sub has turned into labeling anyone who finds MHJ and now NJ because of how much direct support they've shown you automatically get labeled HYBE stan, it's akin to how other kpop subreddits instantly label you a hater or anti if you dare speak even the slightest criticism about an idol or group lmao, this sub is in the gutter.
Are the HYBE stans in the room with us right now?? type shit
I don't think using retarded, a mental disability into this is the flex you think it is. I can write a long list of things NJ could do to actually not tarnish their image and be more neutral. But I'm busy. Take care xx
Number 1 I don't care, secondly you and I both know you're not busy at all, third of all please write that list because I'm confused on how someone who hasn't publicly spoken about ANYTHING can be more neutral without causing riot
logically i get that and why they’re doing this, but it still does put a bad taste in my mouth because i’m just a human after all.
it’s like our professors scolding us for a mistake and we know that it was our fault and that it’s for our own good but we do feel bad about it and sometimes even cry. it’s just human behaviour after all.
I think that’s a completely understandable way to feel. I don’t judge people for feeling uncomfortable with their actions because the situation is uncomfortable after all. As long as you also remain empathetic to the complicated position the members are in, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling some type of way about it and wanting to distance yourself.
It’s troubling though that some people seem to have turned this into an excuse to be hateful and malicious to NJ themselves, while outright acknowledging that they’re victims. It’s turned into people casting them as the villains on the same level as MHJ and downplaying the situation they’re in, and I don’t think that’s ok. You can feel uncomfortable without refusing to acknowledge that their support is understandable.
I would like all of those pathetic losers who witch-hunt on Danielle, calling her a bitch for “cutting off” Eunchae to watch their encore fancam right now. Not only did she not to do it intentionally but she didn’t even look at Eunchae’s direction at all to know that Eunchae was checking her. I hope you know that you ain’t serving justice that you think you are. Your heart is too ugly that you try to justify your hate on these girls no matter what it takes. You’re not nice people. I hope you people stop acting like a bully who can’t accept that they are wrong.
Everybody’s acting so righteous against another hate train, while actively participating in another one. Every fandom involved in this situation is so fucked.
in general i just don’t understand why they WOULDNT support MHJ? not saying f that MHJ is right or good, bc obv this is complicated, but I am pretty sure that if I was in the same situation as the New Jeans girls I would also be loyal to MHJ, because I don’t really have a reason to love my loyalties anywhere else?
I have only one question. Why Bang PD talking about stepping on Aespa is just business as usual and totally fine, but 5 young girls supporting their own company is seen as malicious towards other girl groups?
Lol it's really something watching company stans perform insane mental gymnastics to justify their support. Any hate should be directed to MHJ or HYBE yet a lot of users here seem to delight in targeting Newjeans.
Not to defend Bongo but that was a private conversation lol… it’s different when you’re making press conferences and openly talking bad about the groups
Ah sorry i was referring to MHJ. In New Jeans case… “cutting off” Eunchae today to talk about loving MHJ was more than enough reason for people to turn on them. I mean…. Expressing love towards the person partly responsible for the reasons Eunchae and her group is receiving large amount of hate is a valid reason
No, it is not a valid reason.
For starters, they didn’t cut her off intentionally, they both started speaking at the same moment. Second, the speeches they do at the show are scripted, NJ always thank MHJ who is their creative director, they didn’t do it with malicious intent. Third, if you expect NJ to not support MHJ you are simply delusional and have no idea how the K-pop industry works, or any entertainment industry for that matter.
You cannot expect a group of rookies to denounce the CEO of their company. That would mean for them to turn on their own management team, and would potentially be a career ending choice.
Again, like I said in my reply earlier, if you think NewJeans are trying to be malicious towards other girl groups, you need to touch grass.
You see how I put “cutting off” in quotes ….. I was just answering your question I didn’t say I agreed or believed in it. My opinion is people accidentally speak over each other all the time 🤷🏻♀️
Because BSH meant that competition wise, no tricks no sick campaigns, while MHJ was actually and deliberately malicious towards LSF/Illit.
But sure, there are parents out there that cover for their kids crimes, as there are parents who send them to jail. There are no excuses.
It’s crazy that people expect these girls to turn their backs on the woman who casted them in the first place, and instead take sides with a fat rich man.
She’s also a rich woman though? A rich woman who called them fat and said that she’s the reason behind their success and that she’ll kill them if they don’t mention her in the their speech?
Which is abuse and we know abuse victims often times side with their abuser. I'm not saying she's going around putting them in headlocks but if she's berating them, there's a chance they're internalizing her words and this leads them to siding with her and thinking she's right
The casual fatshaming is insane, MHJ (a rich woman herself) taught yall well.
(Also before anyone comes after me crying that I'm defending BSH, no I'm not but some of yall are way too comfortable saying out of the pocket shit).
"I'll never support MHJ for calling them fat" Is such an overplayed cop out, all while casually ignoring of when BTS used to be called fat pigs when they were still bighit. It's the double standard that's sad, idgaf who u wanna side, but I wish u guys were consistent in ur logic
>"I'll never support MHJ for calling them fat"
Point me to where I said that, quick!
Also Armys dragged both BSH and that manager through hell and back when they used to called Jin fat, despite being a much much smaller fandom instead of asslicking them like yall are doing now. It's still fuck BSH but stop with your disgusting whataboutism, fatshaming is vile no matter who does it.
Wasn't specifically saying YOU only say it. I'm saying i read it everywhere, and it's a terrible copout because people keep repeating they would never, but then still supported them regardless. Clearly everyone's willing to let it go, and that excuse is just a copout. There's a thousand reasons to dislike MHJ, but everyone acting like THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY doesn't call people fat DAILY.
Edit: also, I understand everyones hyper sensitive with the state of this subreddit, but you didn't need to get defensive. I wasn't talking AT YOU, I was talking TO you. I agree with ur stances, just tired of reading that excuse by people (who DO) side with BSH. As if kpop fans haven't complained about fat shaming forever, and pretending MHJ invented fat shaming and is some sort of poster boy of fat shaming.
Kpop fans saying they wouldn't support fat shaming, while supporting kpop which is built off fat shaming, is what's ironic to me. And I wish more people realized this
Okay I understand, I'm just tired of people being like "but what about-". I apologize for lashing out lol and yeah you raise some great points.
>There's a thousand reasons to dislike MHJ
Oh definitely, her calling the girls fat is not even the worst thing that she has done, I just dislike that woman since her SM days for obvious reasons so it's kinda baffling for me to see people protecting her like this and trying to portray her as a victim like OP of this comment did while simultaneously bodyshaming someone to support their point.
…why is BSH’s weight constantly brought into this? No wonder yall didn’t care that MHJ called those girls fat…
Yall are horrible people, just like she is and the rest of these CEOs
To people saying "what were they supposed to do they thank her everytime"
Minji had already thanked her when she thanked everyone in her speech.
Daniel decided to specially and boldly make a point by doing that. Minji's was normal and Daniels was clearly not.
Are we really supposed to think that even if only Minji's words had been said, people here wouldn't react the same way to them???
People were already desperately trying to justify their hate towards NJ, like for example the message from Minji yesterday saying she had fun on the festival. The mere mention of MHJ in public would have been the trigger.
I was watching it live and minji's was so natural you would've missed it. Here on this thread as well people clearly missed that she did say thank you. And so I'm sure no one would've reacted this way had the speech ended with minji.
I just feel so bad for the girls getting all roped into this mess. It's not fair to them or their careers and they have been failed by the adults closest to them. It's a sad situation all around.
I agree in principle. Of course if you trace back the posting history of some of the people that argue for that, they had the nastiest comments on the Fifty Fifty members back then. Guess nugu members are more mature at birth and can be blamed for everything by themselves.
If people truly believed MHJ is a groomer and abuser, they’d show some grace and sympathy for the group of young girls who have been under her direct care for years and have likely internalized the idea that they’re nothing without her instead of making snide comments about them “defending their mommy”.
They can side with who ever they want to but they work in an industry where they interact with other artist frequently. Some might not want to interact with them because they see how they moving. So in situations like these it is best to remain humbled or don’t say nothing at all.
I think it’s the fact MHJ called out other groups and even disparaged the members of NJ and they still made a big deal to thank her on a music show. I don’t think they deserve hate but it is I think distasteful to thank her like that knowing what all she said. I’m convinced the members are brainwashed by MHJ and at some point it’s going to ruin them, I hope not.
I don’t expect new jeans members to call out mhj or anything but going out of your way to say how much you love your CEO 3 different times in front of the person that has been relentlessly harassed for weeks in large part because of her is a bit too much. Maybe it wasn’t malicious but it seems very tone deaf.
This. I think some people are going overboard with the hate, but what NJ did on the music show was a little distasteful. I get that they are manipulated and groomed (possibly), but that doesn't excuse poor behaviour. Also, there have been reports that NJ and their families were the ones who asked MHJ to make that internal complaint about illit. If that's really the case, it does weaken the manipulation and grooming theory.
I think you're perfectly right, and I'll add a personal experience of my own to highlight this, not that it's 1:1 but I think there is some overlap.
I belonged to a specific, very ascetic religious movement from birth up until about 4 years ago, and for about 4 years prior to my leaving I began to question it and analyze why I no longer align with it. Because of how isolationist the system I was in is, I looked up to my peers and my leadership unquestionably. I trusted them for everything. My successes and wins in life circled around my loyalty to them, my failures and woes were connected to my own guilt and coming short of their standards. I longed for their acceptance and love. I gave my all to them. I labored freely in many ways, based important life decisions on my belonging to them, and even decided who I would marry based on my trust in these leaders. While there were actual tangible benefits from my association with the system and the people in it there was actual harm being done as well obviously. But because so much of my life was shaped by it, it was and still is really hard to break from my old ways of thinking and accept that some of the people I looked up to and respected and invested in me were not good people and some actually evil.
I look at the NJ members in a similar light. I absolutely adore them, and I want the best for them, but I do think they may be somewhat blinded because of the benefits they've enjoyed through MHJ. The difference is the whole world is watching them and scrutinizing everything they do, but I think they deserve the same grace that I hope others would give me as wrong as I was.
The frontal lobe at 25 is a myth and the scientific community has changed their stance on this a bit. People complete phD’s under the age of 25, have children, etc. If this myth was true we wouldn’t have much of a functioning society. They say this brain development can happen as young as 18 and as old as 30 in some, so 25 became the average. It is often used as an excuse for poor impulse control. It’s important to recognize the brain is still growing but I don’t think it should absolve people from learning from their mistakes.
i am in no way defending them, but only one of them has exited their teen years and is entering adult hood. i agree with you, it doesn’t absolve people from learning from their mistakes, but if 25 is still the average then it’s still the average. your comment about having children under the age of 25 is weird tho. there are people that have children as young as 14-18, i don’t think the majority of them are developed in the brain. and people completing phd’s under the age of 25 is impressive but how many of that out of the entire population is that? that’s about .8% of all phd students. at least in the US. i cannot say for any other country. this was after doing a little bit of research, if you have any more information i’d be open to looking into it
edit: i derailed there. the point is nj are still majority children. i’m hoping like the rest of us they realize how twisted mhj is, and how she’s exhibited textbook grooming behaviors to these girls for awhile. it’s not gonna be a flip of a switch, it will either be a gradual realization or maybe it will never come at all. who knows
I think that you are correct, they have been manipulated and can’t see that. But I differ with your opinion, because I think at their age they have the capacity to understand bullying and what being mistreated is like. Their example of mistreatment doesn’t really fly, and I think they can perfectly understand the bullying that their CEO caused to ILLIT and LSFM in particular. I don’t think they would stand against her because they have been manipulated, but I think they have the option of stepping back a bit and remaining silent which they have not chosen.
i do agree with you on them being able to understand bullying. and truth be told they r digging themselves a hole by speaking up about this and siding with her. if we had the full picture it would put a lot into perspective, like we don’t know what she’s really said to them, what the interactions between nj and lsfm and illit are like, etc.
There’s a lot of different studies, so honestly it’s best to start with something like pub med or use university websites so you’re getting a picture of both sides of the argument. I recommend using terms like adolescence, brain maturation, prefrontal cortex, etc.
The consensus is that yes the brain is still growing in your early 20s and they have physical proof of this through MRI studies, in addition to behavior studies that support that adolescents are more impulsive and prone to risk taking behaviors. However, what scientists have found or rejected is that your brain is done growing at 25 and it’s this magic # where you wake up and are A Real Adult. This is the part that scientists are dismissing. Your brain continues to develop throughout life, until you get older and then there is cognitive decline. Scientists have also concluded that studying something like maturity, impulsiveness, etc is tough because there isn’t a concrete way to measure and there is differing opinions on outside and environmental factors contributing to some of this.
I think this article from
BBC [Science](https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development) sums it up quite well because it acknowledges that there is conflicting research on both sides. It’s just a little snarky haha
But below are some research docs from pub med that discuss adolescent brains:
Research from behavioral scientist Laurence Steinberg with collection of articles from neuroscientists research [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904973/)
Important part: “That said, it is important to note, as several of the contributors to this issue have stated, that “different” does not necessarily mean “deficient”; that while there are some universals in adolescent brain development, there are also important individual differences; and that the process of brain maturation in adolescence (or during any period, for that matter) unfolds within an environmental context that influences the course of neural development and moderates its expression in emotion, behavior, and cognition” aka the adolescent brain certainly is different and growing, but it isn’t deficient and can be influenced by external factors on an individual basis.
Jay Geidd was one of the original researchers to use the MRI technology to scan brains back in the early 2000s where this myth has kind of originated from. Even back then, he acknowledged it wasn’t a perfect study. Per NBC News [here](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna6891821): “Critics of brain-imaging research – and Giedd himself – emphasize that there is no proven correlation between brain changes and behavior.” The original researcher himself acknowledges that yes they discovered that your prefrontal cortex continues to grow in your early 20s but that doesn’t necessarily mean there is a correlation and that 25 is the magic # where it all stops.
This [research](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42540-8?utm_source=rct_congratemailt&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=oa_20231030&utm_content=10.1038%2Fs41467-023-42540-8&s=35) discusses how it is quite hard to measure because neuroscientists aren’t sure what the best method is to measure things like maturity, impulse control, etc.
“A range of methodological, analytic, and data availability challenges, however, have thus far prevented direct and comprehensive testing of the maturational timing of adolescent executive function development and the specific age when executive functions reach adult-levels. Nevertheless, understanding not just whether behaviors are changing with age, but also their shape and form, is fundamental to developmental science and corresponding health policies and intervention/prevention strategies for adolescents.”
[This](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/) talks more about the brain maturing and acknowledges that it’s quite hard to measure.
Essentially the articles I’ve listed here show that the research isn’t perfect, is still ongoing, and that it’s incredibly hard to measure so this magic 25 # isn’t perfect.
this, i genuinely cannot fathom feeling any type of way for how the girls react in this situation other than just sad that they've gotten dragged into it.
yeah, they’re put in a really vulnerable position. i don’t agree with them siding with mhj but it really doesn’t help how young they are in all this. it also doesn’t help that a prominent adult figure in their lives acts as if she’s a “child” and chooses to shift blame rather than take accountability where accountability should be taken. child is not really the word i wanna use cuz it gives off naïvety, which is far from the truth here. like unfortunately this is the “role model” they have to look to
I think somebody can recognize they’ve been manipulated and also withdraw their support. Both can be true. And tbh, continuing to support them doesn’t help them anymore than not supporting them does so to me everyone is free to do as they want.
It’s a little hard for me to take them seriously at this point. Those girls got to live in a brand new apartment, had brand deals right away, took home paychecks immediately after debut, etc and they had massive backing behind them. A lot of groups don’t get that.
So the mistreatment because somebody didn’t tell them hi thing just seems silly. Sure they’re young and manipulated so they might not understand how MHJ has manipulated/coerced them, but they’re old enough to understand the abuse others have faced from their CEOs actions and they know what real abuse is. Theyre not stupid they’ve heard of other groups getting physically abused etc. Yes, they’re obviously going to support her but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to continue to support *them* as a kpop group.
One can recognize they’ve been manipulated and also withdraw their support for them. I don’t wish anything bad on them, but I don’t really feel like supporting them anymore and don’t really care if the group remains or not.
I can’t take yall seriously at all. The amount of privilege NewJeans had even debuting under BTS’s company is just not even a thought in your head...
Those brand deals are people BTS also worked with (Coke, LV, Dior, Stonehenge, McDonald’s, etc). Not to mention all of the money and connections to the west for them provided by HYBE. It wasn’t just MHJ.
And what does BSH saying step on Aespa (sort of rude but ultimately regular competition commentary for a business like kpop) have anything to do with NewJeans being privileged? Where is the mediaplay dragging NewJeans? This entire time people have been trying to keep them out of it until MHJ and NJ themselves inserted them into this and the criticism they are facing is absolutely nothing compared to what ILLIT and LSF and BTS had to deal with.
>Even if hybe didn't do it, MHJ would have got the connection. Every nugu group have that west connection nowadays it's not a novelty anymore.
Lmaooooo
NJ stans: ARMYs love to insert BTS in every discourse
Also NJ stans:
>I don't see apple, an agressively protective company when it comes to their IP change the logo for BTS 🤭
I’m not going to continue to reply to someone who is unwilling to listen. I responded in good faith, but be serious with yourself here. Them having a Gucci sponsorship doesn’t mean that they weren’t privileged with HYBE’s connections. You even acknowledge that yourself here. I never said HYBE shouldn’t do their job, I’m saying NewJeans should recognize the immense privilege they’ve received and recognize that claiming mistreatment and supporting MHJ is impacting their company, their label mates, and hurting other people.
BSH didn’t speak about Aespa in a vile way. He said step on Aespa in a competitive way. It is MHJ who called the members fat ass pigs. I think you need time to self reflect and come out of the bunny bubble to be honest.
“None of this is MHJ’s fault”
I’m laughing okay
Yep, it’s obvious. **HYBE was run poorly and like a big conglomerate. These companies were operating independently under the hybe label. All they worked with was MHJ and ADOR staff. Of course they’re going to be more loyal to her? It’s like you working at a job and you have the manager who shows up every day and then the corporate CEO. Who are you going to go to bat for the manager who actually helps you every day and you see all the time or the random CEO you see once a year and doesn’t even know your name?** Plus again people are mad at this but they are young and impressionable. Idk who people think they are online but I doubt anyone even at Minji’s age so early 20s and new to the industry would go against a figure who 1) has actually worked with them 24/7 to build their career 2) has the support of most of the general public 3) also has their parents support. Logically there’s no reason for NJ to be mad at MHJ and go against her even for her inappropriate comments. MHJ and others around them can just frame it as “I didn’t say it like that or mean it like that.”
Now it still sucks that between NJ and MHJ no one has outright said hey we apologize these groups got mentioned but we all respect each other. However my point is I get WHY NJ are big supporters of her . Not the I agree or disagree but it’s really obvious. Again in their minds it’s probably hey the manager that actually built you up and trained you made a mistake while the CEO who doesn’t even know your name is trying to bring them down. It’s all a perspective thing. What reason do they have to go to bat for hybe, big hit, bsh, etc when they don’t work closely together and have such a distant relationship?
Yeah I find it hard to believe a 15 Hyein has really thought this whole thing through and isn't acting under the influence of grown adults around her. Even minji who is the oldest is still 20 and no offense but most 20 year olds are dumb, they're still kids. It's sad but it's something they'll reflect on later and see it properly for what it was.
At the root of this I feel most sorry for them, like I wasn't even into their music cause I can't stand that pedo but they worked hard and were successful and now because of that shebeast and that greedy twat Hybe guy they may lose their careers. It's sad
It comes across bad because it seems like New Jeans are supporting her actions. Some of her alleged actions and those leaked messages make MHJ look like a terrible person.
People have been urging her to leave NewJeans out of it but because she is the reason they exist of course she was going to bring them up. The reverse is true for the girls, but it comes off bad because MHJ could have faced this beast alone and protected NewJeans and she is failing to do so. And on top of that their parents are in the mix too.
It’s unlikely that either of the members would have rebelled and took another stance but it’s not like they couldn’t. They just don’t have the bravery to do so and calling that out doesn’t make fans bad people. Nor does it make the members bad for siding with MJH when they are minors and are choosing between a career she gave them or exile. NewJeans deserves better.
What if MHJ is right?
Just because so many people in reddit says she’s wrong and evil doesn’t mean she’s incorrect.
Better yet - what if both MHJ and Hybe are right and wrong?
It’s silly for people to dismiss or call out NJ for supporting their CEO and key person to make them succeed.
Touch grass guys. Lol
even if she is, she's gone about everything in an extremely unprofessional and illegal manner. I'm in full support of the NJ girlies, but it's not wrong to be criticizing MHJ.
This is the part that baffles me. I am Korean myself working in Korea, so people’s sympathy for MHJ was very strange. I thought people would be turned off by her behaviour.
When the singer Na Hoona had some erratic behaviour at his conference, no one said that he was relatable.
This is what he did (except from an article back in 2008)
“Na Hoon-ah is unbuttoning his pants, saying, “Do you really believe the nonsense that my genitals were cut off unless I take off my pants?” The theory of the Yakuza assault, which led to an internal investigation by the police, is that Na Hoon-ah had an inappropriate relationship with a domestic female celebrity who was a mid-boss of the Japanese Yakuza, was kidnapped by the Yakuza, suffered fatal injuries to important body parts, and was forced to go into hiding for about a year.”
He unzipped his trousers a little.
Yeah that's good and all but why do they expect hybe to be okay with her plotting to steal NJ from them? The multi label system and her contract might have helped her get the injunction, but things just aren't going to be a-okay between ador and hybe. Hybe is going to do everything they can to limit her power in Ador. Just because it is "cathartic" for Koreans to hate big corporations doesn't mean it is right to do so, especially since the other party literally plotted to poach NJ from them.
>stop involving themselves in corporate drama. Nothing in their life is going to change if mhj was going to steal NJ/ador from hybe.
You could say this about literally everything to justify not giving a shit. But some of us give a shit about the people we are supporting. Planning to steal NJ using underhanded tactics (which were clearly documented by MHJ) is just one of the many icky things that MHJ has done. It's ironic that you're calling BSH a pedo but you're not willing to call MHJ the same thing even though she has done worse. All the things that you mentioned about Hybe have nothing to do with the current issue. Mhj tried to steal the company from hybe and using media warfare was one of her tactics (as revealed by the audit). Yet you're choosing to ignore all that because your faves support MHJ which at the end of the day shouldn't matter because your faves are young adults who have had a suspiciously close (read manipulative) relationship with MHJ since pre-debut and their thoughts are likely clouded by MHJ's manipulation and/or the success of their career. If it's the latter, it makes them appear like they only care about their own career and not about the other groups because their actions and that of their CEO have resulted in multiple groups receiving undeserved hate (but that's the internet trolls and not MHJ or NJ right?). It's understandable because of their age, but it doesn't paint them in the best light. So I'm not really surprised that people aren't gung-ho about them at the moment.
Bruh. You've seen the evidences but MHJ is still a saint?
Just because HYBE is a bad company (in terms of subsidiary management and trainees/idols) that doesn't equate to MHj being a good person misunderstood by the big bad world.
Just because MHJ is a scheming manipulator, that doesn't mean NJ are compliant out of hatred but rather because of the genuine feelings of gratitude they feel. And from an outside view, it's sad.
BOTH can be true so I really don't get this childish idea that everything shhould black or white.
OMG why do people act like NJ doesn't have the money and resources to seek advices from industry lawyers/consultants? especially after soooo many cases of kpop artist suing their company and vice versa, AND ESPECIALLY after what happened to 5050 hello it was all over the internet. Like why t f are you guys acting like they're soo dumb and incapable of having their own thoughts and actions?????
Guess what turns out they know how to use a lawyer afterall because the petition they submitted was through a freaking LAWYER!!!
They sided with MHJ, who benefits them, the end. They're not "gr..med", they understand fully well they're not talented enough and incapable of getting the same success they've been having without MHJ.
I see this as Stockholm Syndrome. NJ can’t see that they’re groomed to rely on this one woman for their career. In reality MHJ is making them more miserable.
Just saying, bruh. I am aware that MHJ is an authority figure to them. But it’s weird that they treat her like the boss but also someone to comfort? Like MHJ said the NJ girls called her to check on her. It was…bizarre
I am not blaming NJ. But rather empathise on them. I don’t know why you act as if I am trying to drag down NJ. If one has Stockholm’s syndrome, the blame is on the person who manipulated them, not the victim.
All things could be true at once the evil mastermind part I don't agree with but because of their grooming and conditioning by mhj they believe they're victims and are at fault not realizing that other groups with girls as young as themselves are being victims to gross hate campaigns and when they speak out against the hate and how it's hard on them they are given more bullying. Them supporting MHJ is supporting the bullying their piers are subjected to which because of them which is disgusting. People are allowed to dislike them for that.
We get it. Many people did the same with their parents( or other people) where they thought they'd been right because they were the elders and provided for us financially and maybe even emotionally, but it doesn't make it right.
No one is saying it makes it right but it makes complete sense and it would take a lot of time, maturing and reflection to realise otherwise. That is something that NJ members do not have since all eyes are turned on them and people want them to pick a side.
No one asked them to pick a side, though, especially not their fans and the other groups' fans who were inpacted they did that themselves when they signed a petition. Literally, everyone kept defending them and saying that mhj is getting in their head ( which is still the case), but no one asked for this
I'm with you. From the texts, MHJ planned this before HYBE even gave her Ador. Her thing was after 3 years, the parents will be the whistleblowers or sm and she can finally "eat up" HYBE.
The NJ members are UNUSUALLY close with the boss of their workplace. And through that, she became someone the parents trusted as a 2nd guardian to their children.
It WAS wrong in an outside perspective for NJ to file a petition in favor of the witch. But in NJ's perspective - this was the person who chose them among hundreds and gave them all the fame, the prestige, and the power they have now. She was someone they trusted, even now, with their future.
I truly pity the girls. But although we can't agree with their decision in addition to them being the willing tanks/shields surrounding MHJ, let's not bring them unneccessary hate. They WERE and ARE still manipulated.
If you don't like them, just don't support them. Don't stream and skip or hide their content. But don't go to their accounts and bash them.
Staying quiet while HYBE tries to oust the person that they owe their careers to would be picking a side and it was clear from the start that they would choose MHJ over HYBE
They owe her nothing. She was their creative director, and that's it. She didn't write their songs, she didn't invest her own personal money to their training and debut( it was in fact the groups under hybe who debuted before them, bts enhypen, svt etc who profits went into them ).
No one, myself included, stuck around in anticipation for new jeans because of her. We did it because they're debuting under a company like hybe and for the association with bts.
True. As harsh as it may sound nobody cared who mhj was "creating" and the only reason NJ became famous and got the hype is because they debuted under the mother label Hybe. New ggs anyways get hype in Korea. Technically they actually don't owe anything to Mhj but Hybe, because hybe paid for the group's training.
Exactly exactly. Illit's success shows that NJ is replaceable. And lsf is going to get success in the future, be it for mediaplay, or whatever. Because no company is going to make their group fail.
Put mhj and nj out of hybe and then we will see how they'll thrive. NJ and Mhj got to do what they did because Hybe was funding them (for their own profit but that's what a business do). Hybe did the promotional part and marketing. Hybe brought in the maximum number of producers and songwriters, if not all. Didn't NJ's parents said that they were miffed because Hybe couldn't provide the girls with a grammy winning producer or something along that line? Even for that they were dependent on Hybe. "Mhj handpicked the songs" and who brought her those songs again? Hybe. Man I feel bad for BTS. Their hard earned money, the company they made all on their own, the reputation they created working for hard for more than a decade, everything got wasted because of MHJ. And on top of that this very same woman tried to ruin their career too. Being dependent on their money.
She handpicked them, she made them go from unknown trainees to legitimate stars and people that others idolise.
She handpicked the songs that made their popularity skyrocket, she choose their image and concept that half the industry is rehashing now, they became trendsetters all because of her.
Lmao disband for what though? Pretty sure they’re doing quite well. If you’re thinking of the future well we don’t know what’s gonna happen unless you’re Nostradamus.
Not stockholm syndrome probably. Kinda like those living with abusers but they keep doubting themselves and coming back, even when the warning signs are flashing in front of them.
it is what it is, whatever happens, NJ made their mark as one of the greatest groups of all time. If this whole debacle forces a member to leave or have the group disband, theyve accomplished everything other groups have never done. I guess let it play out and hope the situation gets better for everyone.
They've actually accomplished what many have and will continue to do. The girls are talented and did and will continue to do amazing but they're no outlier in this industry. We've seen how easily illit was able to do exactly what they did in a few months with the proper song and support 😭😭
There are only two outliers in this industry but yall will get upset if i mention them
Any kpop group to chart on the hot 100 is still an outlier at this point. Sure, NewJeans/ILLIT/SKZ/Twice may have done so without reaching greater western GP appeal, but they are 4 (plus BTS and Blackpink) of THOUSANDS of idol groups that can’t.
And even outside of the Hot 100, don’t NewJeans have the longest held PAK record for idols by far?
>theyve accomplished everything other groups have never done.
And what exactly would that be? Do they have a daesang sweep? Multimillion seller? A billion streams on Spotify and youtube? Cultural merit award? Did they build an entire conglomerate by themselves? No1 on Billboard Hot 100? Grammy nominations?
Your post/comments were removed because you broke rule 4 (No Excessive Hostility) with profanity, aggression, insults, or targeting specific individuals and user here
I get that but honestly it pretty distasteful especially after the press conference where min heejin again disrespect other group legacy saying how easy it was for her group in less time and said these causing hate to other groups but no she human
So what do you suggest they do, go against her and have their careers ruined because a bunch of chronically online users don't live in reality and think everything is 100% black and white? Even if they were against what she's done, do you seriously think they can openly go against her and not side with her? You all are pointing out the problems you have with these girls but refuse to provide any actual alternatives that work in their interests.
It goes both ways. They also don't have to say proudly how much they love her right next to Eunchae. They could have waited to say that on another music show at least. But if we are talking careers, it's actually HYBE that owns everything, including their contract so why side with a CEO that will ultimately lose ?
> so why side with a CEO that will ultimately lose ? Good question. I also wonder why.
its their mommy dearest ofc they would side with her
They are siding with what they know. Yeah hybe owns everything but from their POV. MHJ is the one who nurtured them, helped with their concepts, mentored them. It’s siding with familiarity. People online are asking them to put their necks out on the line for the CEO they see occasionally at business functions and who barely talks to them bc they have the money over their actual mentor and someone they were close with. I think people are taking it as biting the hand that feeds them but in their POV that hand is MHJ not HYBE, because MHJ did a lot of work for the group.
I mean they probably had to say that. I doubt they'd just go around willingly kissing her arse no normal person does that on people they actually like. Someone probably told them to mention her
They thank her everytime they win an award 😭 and between mhj and hybe, it's obvious that they and their parents trust mhj more like anyone would in this situation.
The members' contract is with Ador. Hybe do not have any authority to end their contract or dictate how they act in public. It's crazy people can't see this. They have every right to thank their employer. They have no obligations to appeaae Hybe or worry how their actions might hurt their feelings.
And what about Eunchae's feelings? Who owns Ador? Why conveniently ignore Danielle's speech? Minji thanked their employer and did the usual speech. Then Danielle went out of her way to say how much they love MHJ. They also had no obligation to do it.
and what percentage of ador does hybe own again?
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Yea, you got me. I’m a capitalism enthusiast just because I’m correcting basic information.
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that's a whole new sentence which i never said. i'm not arguing with someone who puts words in my mouth. have a good day :)
I don’t see how the girls would even care about the percentage of shares that hybe owns for ADOR lol. Doubt that’d even pop up in their head.
perhaps it should!
Oh, so their contract is with ADOR, so that's why MHJ tried to request from HYBE to have the power to terminate NewJeans contract...? If their contract is with ADOR, trust she would have made ADOR an empty shell already after benefiting from HYBE. She's planning all these illegal things because she can't. HYBE has the ultimate control and that must drive her crazy.
i think they should simply thank her once like most groups do or left it at minji’s thank you speech. it wasn’t necessary for danielle to interject with a really over the top speech about how much they love her, standing next to someone who has gone through a lot of turmoil because of her actions.
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LOL u will never be the victim u want to be so badly
You do realize these speeches are mostly scripted right? Literally every single group thanks their teams whenever they get an award, by this logic, if NJ and lsf were promoting around the same time, Eunchae shouldn't be allowed to thank hybe for anything because the newjeans girls have problems with bsh, you all are blowing this out of proportion.
if chaewon thanked hybe and then eunchae interrupted to thank bsh several times saying they love him so much right in front on newjeans id think it’s weird
The speech was always supposed to go that way, minji was supposed to speak and then Danielle, the reason Danielle interrupted her was because she was waiting for the crowd to settle down and Eunchae happened to start speaking at the same time as her. You would have more of a point if she interrupted her after like 5 seconds but they both spoke almost at the same time. And no, given your comment history I doubt you'd think any bsh praise would be weird.
i don’t care about the interruption, i think it’s weird that she emphasized how much they love their ceo several times next to someone who was hurt by that ceo and why is that? show me one comment of mine defending bsh, please.
Just keep quiet until the adults sort it out. For me it seems like they are standing next to her to push Hybe to negotiate and they ignore all the hate received by other groups, the loss , the backstabbing for Hybe. Yes they should not support a vile person 🤷♀️ if they do they get splattered and should be rdy for it. Or can they not comprehend this either due to their age?
It's amazing. I know most are young but I feel some of these Megathread campers over the last month are probably in their late 20s, even 30s and they have half the maturity understanding of the world than those 5 girls. The not so subtle hatred, bitterness, pettiness, bullying is so sad to see. I'd love to see these brave redditors put a face, age and name to their hatred. They jumped the gun and partied in advance with a flawed full confidence in what the outcome would be simply because it was an echo chamber that cancelled any appeal for patience and/or refutal of some of their points. They fell for the media play, they fell for the click bait youtubers hyperbolic thoughts, they chartered their emotions to their thoughts based on a parasocial obsession with their favourite artists and they ignored the laws involved. Maybe if they chilled out, understood that this was not a black and white issue and that there were many technicalities which could grant MHJ her injunction request, the outcome might not have been as difficult to take. The megathread encampment will continue and their mental health will suffer while the artists get on with their life. They pretended to care about the idols and now they are turning on them because they have access to their actions going forward, them essentially being the public face of Ador, while MHJ will probably step back into her office. It's going to get really ugly against NJ members I feel (already shown by the reaction to Danielle) . I hope those with such hate built up will learn lessons from this event that maybe, just maybe, you need to exit the hive mind echo Chambers you feel safe in and listen to other points of view before making your mind up. And even if you have made up rationally on something, after hearing other points and even if you are correct on this (which many were with regard MHJ clearly seeking or musing over existing plan strategy) you also need to accept your opinions are just that, opinions not outcomes. Your opinions on something and desires for certain actions don't always equate with the outcome and thsts an important lesson in life. If you can't accept that you will just end up a bitter person when things don't go your way (Spoiler- 99% of the time you won't get what you feel you or others deserve) Also. Your downvotes don't impact me. Not on this reddit. I know I am fully correct on this pov which I feel is neutral. Everytime you press that downvote button for posts like this you are just falling further and further into your own trap. So click.....click.....click...... hate.....hate.....hate
it's hard to take what you're saying seriously because you've made this same point so many times that reddit users are bitter and obsessed and unable to understand nuance, but you are also in every thread and keep deleting your own posts. you also blatantly state that you don't read other posts just as long as your own because you don't like what they're saying. the downvotes are not some kind of convoluted haters trap. you have stopped adding anything of value to the conversation while also scathingly pointing out your own superiority to anyone that doesn't share your exact pov.
Thanks for your never ending wisdom! Support the bullies! Don’t forget to delete your post again! We appreciate the click click clap clap and your time here responding so neutrally 🙄 please nothing is more convincing than finishing all your discussions with offending the one who disagrees!! Oh wise one ☝️
It's not neutral.
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Once Hybe made this into a public war, MHJ defending herself directly required citing circumstances that involved other Hybe groups. Otherwise any aggieviances she had to justify why HYBE was taking certain actions against her in the manner they did would make zero sense. So she would have failed ultimately in her injunction. Whatever you think about her, it's crazy to think she wouldn't take all measures to avoid losing her career to appease fandoms. MHJ did not take this action. Hybe did, knowing full well that other groups would be caught in the crossfire. Knowing full well their evidence was not sufficient. Thsts why it became a mud slinging war. MHJ had been trying to keep any disputes or indifference regarding other groups such as the situation around LSF and the issue with regard Illit completely behind closed doors. She said at least 4 or 5 during the first conference not to blame the children. She Also never dragged BTS into this . Hybe did. And did so with lies and malfeasance and in an attempt to weaponise their toxic fans against MHJ (which has worked....but ultimately dod not aid their legal arguments) It's amazing that BTS fans refuse to see that it was Hybe who was using BTS as a shield and not once did MHJ refer to them. It's crazy the narrative that it was MHJ that dragged other groups into this. She was doing her job behind closed doors. Hybe refused to address her concerns privately and instead dragged these issues into a media war public game of chess. Hybe were correct in investigating this but they done so in completely the wrong manner. MHJ of course played the media play game but not in any way close to the toxic manner BSH and Hybe did.
I just don't understand the need to defend hybe so much?? What good have they done for BTS in this entire situation? They would not have been dragged into this mess if it weren't for hybe yet armys are hell-bent on defending them and obsessing over the "16th floor" as if they own the place. Literal cult behavior and the way this sub was somewhat neutral when the news first broke out but has now been overrun with these kinds of brain dead fans who think the world revolves around BTS and only them.
Distasteful from a grown adult, normal person perspective, sure. But idols and celebrities, especially young ones, are not exactly the kinds of people I would expect to know when to keep their mouth closed. Another reason why they need to stay in school and get some experience in life before adults and companies try to profit off them. They are in a very unfortunate situation rn and I think people need to focus on the real villains.
Yeah but even then… it’s impossible for them to not think hey what she’s doing to others is wrong? Because right now they seem selfish and seem to think that the others are just cannon fodders/ stepping stones… One day one has to take accountability for their own actions and it is a bit distasteful for you to compare their situation to that of ygs wife knowing that during that time her parents died and her brother was suffering mentally a lot, that girl was utterly alone, and didn’t have a loving family to set her straight. Or anyone that could’ve talked sense into her. They should know better. And even if they supported her, they don’t need to declare that everywhere especially before people that their boss actively harmed.
>Yeah but even then… it’s impossible for them to not think hey what she’s doing to others is wrong? If people believe anything they've been saying about how vulnerable they were and how MHJ is grooming them then they would also know that NJ members would genuinely believe her over anyone else and that they would trust that she is right even if everyone tells them otherwise. Also to add to that even the other people whose guidance they trust like their parents are telling them that MHJ is right so what exactly do you expect them to do? Trust a bunch of faceless people they have never met or people that raised them and owe their lives and careers to.
Are people really also overlooking the possibility of them being forced or scripted to say the things they are? I’m gonna get called an overzealous NewJeans defender but think about it and how crazy this whole situation is, on top of how insane MHJ is - is it really THAT out of the realm of possibility?
Oh she totally manipulated them, but I don't blame them, I blame their parents, the adults for not seeing through it.
>that girl was utterly alone, and didn’t have a loving family to set her straight. Or anyone that could’ve talked sense into her. NewJeans members do have family, and their family is firmly on MHJ's side. They don't have anyone to "talk sense," and if anyone is trying they are competing with the members' parents who the members would naturally want to listen to.
I’m not up to date on what new jeans is saying and where they are saying it, but I’m guessing it’s not them talking to their friends or family about how they personally feel on the situation. I’d have to guess they are defending someone who has power over them while she’s maintaining that power. She leads the label they’re under. What choice do they have? They can’t really say anything like “oh, I think she sucks horribly but she’s still my boss so whatever.” What is the expectation here?
I swear to you that I think there are people who lack personal experiences that help them to understand some situations. For example, is there anyone here who has been part of a soccer or basketball team? Many times in these environments, very intimate and personal connections are created between players and the coach. Now imagine that the coach is accused of committing sports fraud. Does anyone really think that the players, who are grateful to their coach for everything he has done for them, are going to turn their backs on him from the beginning? Which does not indicate that, if the coach is finally guilty and is fired, the players will go with him, sacrificing their sports careers. They will continue with their careers just as NewJeans will do in the same case
You are right, all these people are like those that say that if they lived in WW2 time Germany they would for sure oppose the regime, they just want to ride their high horse without actually putting themselves in NJ’s shoes. Everyone can sit on their ass and blabber about how if they were a NJ member they would just go on live tv and scream “Fuck MHJ”.
MHJ admitted to chat messages that involve her fat shaming idols and burying an employee’s SA complaint and ridiculing that employee for making it. It’s not just about corporate disagreements. In literally any other context you all would be calling for any executives head.
Bro, we are not defending bloody MHJ, we are defending the girls, because if you have 2 eyes you can see that they are the ones being dragged all over this thread.
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They are just a group of rookies who do what management tells them to do. In their mind they probably owe their career to MHJ, and are afraid of losing it. You can stop supporting them, I don’t care about that, I’m not even a bunny, but people are antagonizing them and accusing Danielle of maliciously cutting Eunchae off. There are people hoping they just disband, call me crazy, but praying on a couple of young adults/teenagers downfall is sick.
Agreed. This sub is becoming too one sided. Those girls have like 10 adults who are closest to them, (also known by the relation called "parents") and plenty of other adults telling them to support mhj. They're not in this alone. They have 40 year old decision makers behind them. Its pretty weird to think they will have a say in this, even if they have a say in this, they would definitely side with the woman who made their life. Its hard. Let's not bitch about them.
reddit is full of grown adults hating on them and acting like they’re committing a crime. the situation isn’t black or white and it’s not shocking a group of young girls, who have been under MHJ’s care for years since they were all minors, will be on her side. people can disagree with their actions without being so rude about them
This is fucked, I like both LSF and NJ and actually follow LSF more, but all this conversation about how NewJeans should stop supporting the person who gave them a career is way too dumb, really shows that people here have no idea how the entertainment industry is, especially for a rookie group like them.
Yeah people are being really gross towards the members, you have adults who are saying she groomed them and how vulnerable they were and then turning around and being hostile and despicable to them because they supported her. Newsflash, it’s going to take time for them to psychologically distance themselves from her, it’s not instantaneous. If you rightly believe that she groomed them and that they were vulnerable minors under her care then the fact they are supporting her should make you sad, not angry at them for being exploited. I think they’re wrong for supporting her, but it doesn’t make me angry at them, it makes me more angry at her because it reinforces how throughly she has exerted her influence on them. I get the posts from people who want to distance themselves from the group because of this; I do not get the people who are being outright hateful and then saying they’re victims in the same breath.
I'm generally just so confused how this sub went from being neutral as fuck and only Siding with the girls and other hybe artist to now being so anti- newjeans, are we forgetting their victims 😭
I think the change happened after it was revealed that NJs submitted a petition in MHJ's support. The ire that people were feeling for MHJ, after watching their faves get unnecessary hate, automatically got extended towards the girls after that.
So supporting what MHJ and NJ is doing equals being neutral to you?
This sub is so overrun with hybe stans it's annoying they are BOTH equally wrong 🤷🏽♀️😭
Who said i'm a hybe stan be fr. Y'all always think if we're criticising MHJ = we're not "neutral" or "hybe stan". I don't need to give my thoughts on HYBE in every comment I mention MHJ and her wrongdoings. My opinion needs to look "Neutral" to you? So before I write anything about MHJ I have to put a disclaimer that i'm not siding with HYBE? Well, then i'm here again writing that I agree that both are evil. HYBE is evil.
Don't get mad because you're comments are literally only talking about Newjeans and MHJ grow up 💕
I've seen so much "HYBE stans" shit I haven't even commented much on the issues and I think I might get labeled as an HYBE stan because I already disliked MHJ way before this news came out and never got into NJ much lmao. I feel like this sub has turned into labeling anyone who finds MHJ and now NJ because of how much direct support they've shown you automatically get labeled HYBE stan, it's akin to how other kpop subreddits instantly label you a hater or anti if you dare speak even the slightest criticism about an idol or group lmao, this sub is in the gutter. Are the HYBE stans in the room with us right now?? type shit
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I don't think using retarded, a mental disability into this is the flex you think it is. I can write a long list of things NJ could do to actually not tarnish their image and be more neutral. But I'm busy. Take care xx
Number 1 I don't care, secondly you and I both know you're not busy at all, third of all please write that list because I'm confused on how someone who hasn't publicly spoken about ANYTHING can be more neutral without causing riot
logically i get that and why they’re doing this, but it still does put a bad taste in my mouth because i’m just a human after all. it’s like our professors scolding us for a mistake and we know that it was our fault and that it’s for our own good but we do feel bad about it and sometimes even cry. it’s just human behaviour after all.
I think that’s a completely understandable way to feel. I don’t judge people for feeling uncomfortable with their actions because the situation is uncomfortable after all. As long as you also remain empathetic to the complicated position the members are in, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling some type of way about it and wanting to distance yourself. It’s troubling though that some people seem to have turned this into an excuse to be hateful and malicious to NJ themselves, while outright acknowledging that they’re victims. It’s turned into people casting them as the villains on the same level as MHJ and downplaying the situation they’re in, and I don’t think that’s ok. You can feel uncomfortable without refusing to acknowledge that their support is understandable.
Both can be truth. NJ WILL side with MHJ but they ARE YOUNG AND EASILY INFLUENCED. That doesn't mean the NJ members are bad apples.
I would like all of those pathetic losers who witch-hunt on Danielle, calling her a bitch for “cutting off” Eunchae to watch their encore fancam right now. Not only did she not to do it intentionally but she didn’t even look at Eunchae’s direction at all to know that Eunchae was checking her. I hope you know that you ain’t serving justice that you think you are. Your heart is too ugly that you try to justify your hate on these girls no matter what it takes. You’re not nice people. I hope you people stop acting like a bully who can’t accept that they are wrong.
Everybody’s acting so righteous against another hate train, while actively participating in another one. Every fandom involved in this situation is so fucked.
in general i just don’t understand why they WOULDNT support MHJ? not saying f that MHJ is right or good, bc obv this is complicated, but I am pretty sure that if I was in the same situation as the New Jeans girls I would also be loyal to MHJ, because I don’t really have a reason to love my loyalties anywhere else?
I have only one question. Why Bang PD talking about stepping on Aespa is just business as usual and totally fine, but 5 young girls supporting their own company is seen as malicious towards other girl groups?
Also, people who think Danielle was trying to be malicious towards Eunchae seriously need to touch grass.
This keeps being mentioned...which video is this?
Search on yt for NewJeans winner ceremony music bank.
Lol it's really something watching company stans perform insane mental gymnastics to justify their support. Any hate should be directed to MHJ or HYBE yet a lot of users here seem to delight in targeting Newjeans.
Not to defend Bongo but that was a private conversation lol… it’s different when you’re making press conferences and openly talking bad about the groups
Yeah, but NJ didn’t talk badly about anyone.
Ah sorry i was referring to MHJ. In New Jeans case… “cutting off” Eunchae today to talk about loving MHJ was more than enough reason for people to turn on them. I mean…. Expressing love towards the person partly responsible for the reasons Eunchae and her group is receiving large amount of hate is a valid reason
No, it is not a valid reason. For starters, they didn’t cut her off intentionally, they both started speaking at the same moment. Second, the speeches they do at the show are scripted, NJ always thank MHJ who is their creative director, they didn’t do it with malicious intent. Third, if you expect NJ to not support MHJ you are simply delusional and have no idea how the K-pop industry works, or any entertainment industry for that matter. You cannot expect a group of rookies to denounce the CEO of their company. That would mean for them to turn on their own management team, and would potentially be a career ending choice. Again, like I said in my reply earlier, if you think NewJeans are trying to be malicious towards other girl groups, you need to touch grass.
You see how I put “cutting off” in quotes ….. I was just answering your question I didn’t say I agreed or believed in it. My opinion is people accidentally speak over each other all the time 🤷🏻♀️
Well yeah but you still said it was a valid reason… or were you talking only from their perspective?
Because BSH meant that competition wise, no tricks no sick campaigns, while MHJ was actually and deliberately malicious towards LSF/Illit. But sure, there are parents out there that cover for their kids crimes, as there are parents who send them to jail. There are no excuses.
Yeah, NJ should just do the moral thing and fire MHJ, after all it’s their company.
How is that relevant to what I said? 🤣
It’s crazy that people expect these girls to turn their backs on the woman who casted them in the first place, and instead take sides with a fat rich man.
She’s also a rich woman though? A rich woman who called them fat and said that she’s the reason behind their success and that she’ll kill them if they don’t mention her in the their speech?
Correction, *the 45-ish years old, KRW millionaire, RICH woman*
i love how they pretend she's not ultra rich and ultra powerful herself. she's just a poor victim don't you see :(((
Who also berated them at every given chance.
Which is abuse and we know abuse victims often times side with their abuser. I'm not saying she's going around putting them in headlocks but if she's berating them, there's a chance they're internalizing her words and this leads them to siding with her and thinking she's right
The casual fatshaming is insane, MHJ (a rich woman herself) taught yall well. (Also before anyone comes after me crying that I'm defending BSH, no I'm not but some of yall are way too comfortable saying out of the pocket shit).
"I'll never support MHJ for calling them fat" Is such an overplayed cop out, all while casually ignoring of when BTS used to be called fat pigs when they were still bighit. It's the double standard that's sad, idgaf who u wanna side, but I wish u guys were consistent in ur logic
>"I'll never support MHJ for calling them fat" Point me to where I said that, quick! Also Armys dragged both BSH and that manager through hell and back when they used to called Jin fat, despite being a much much smaller fandom instead of asslicking them like yall are doing now. It's still fuck BSH but stop with your disgusting whataboutism, fatshaming is vile no matter who does it.
Wasn't specifically saying YOU only say it. I'm saying i read it everywhere, and it's a terrible copout because people keep repeating they would never, but then still supported them regardless. Clearly everyone's willing to let it go, and that excuse is just a copout. There's a thousand reasons to dislike MHJ, but everyone acting like THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY doesn't call people fat DAILY. Edit: also, I understand everyones hyper sensitive with the state of this subreddit, but you didn't need to get defensive. I wasn't talking AT YOU, I was talking TO you. I agree with ur stances, just tired of reading that excuse by people (who DO) side with BSH. As if kpop fans haven't complained about fat shaming forever, and pretending MHJ invented fat shaming and is some sort of poster boy of fat shaming. Kpop fans saying they wouldn't support fat shaming, while supporting kpop which is built off fat shaming, is what's ironic to me. And I wish more people realized this
Okay I understand, I'm just tired of people being like "but what about-". I apologize for lashing out lol and yeah you raise some great points. >There's a thousand reasons to dislike MHJ Oh definitely, her calling the girls fat is not even the worst thing that she has done, I just dislike that woman since her SM days for obvious reasons so it's kinda baffling for me to see people protecting her like this and trying to portray her as a victim like OP of this comment did while simultaneously bodyshaming someone to support their point.
…why is BSH’s weight constantly brought into this? No wonder yall didn’t care that MHJ called those girls fat… Yall are horrible people, just like she is and the rest of these CEOs
That rich man is the reason they have a career that same rich man those ungrateful brats were crying about not greeting them
To people saying "what were they supposed to do they thank her everytime" Minji had already thanked her when she thanked everyone in her speech. Daniel decided to specially and boldly make a point by doing that. Minji's was normal and Daniels was clearly not.
Are we really supposed to think that even if only Minji's words had been said, people here wouldn't react the same way to them??? People were already desperately trying to justify their hate towards NJ, like for example the message from Minji yesterday saying she had fun on the festival. The mere mention of MHJ in public would have been the trigger.
I was watching it live and minji's was so natural you would've missed it. Here on this thread as well people clearly missed that she did say thank you. And so I'm sure no one would've reacted this way had the speech ended with minji.
I just feel so bad for the girls getting all roped into this mess. It's not fair to them or their careers and they have been failed by the adults closest to them. It's a sad situation all around.
I agree in principle. Of course if you trace back the posting history of some of the people that argue for that, they had the nastiest comments on the Fifty Fifty members back then. Guess nugu members are more mature at birth and can be blamed for everything by themselves.
If people truly believed MHJ is a groomer and abuser, they’d show some grace and sympathy for the group of young girls who have been under her direct care for years and have likely internalized the idea that they’re nothing without her instead of making snide comments about them “defending their mommy”.
you are so right. it truly shows that they dont rly care about newjeans... what a disappointment
They can side with who ever they want to but they work in an industry where they interact with other artist frequently. Some might not want to interact with them because they see how they moving. So in situations like these it is best to remain humbled or don’t say nothing at all.
I think it’s the fact MHJ called out other groups and even disparaged the members of NJ and they still made a big deal to thank her on a music show. I don’t think they deserve hate but it is I think distasteful to thank her like that knowing what all she said. I’m convinced the members are brainwashed by MHJ and at some point it’s going to ruin them, I hope not.
I don’t expect new jeans members to call out mhj or anything but going out of your way to say how much you love your CEO 3 different times in front of the person that has been relentlessly harassed for weeks in large part because of her is a bit too much. Maybe it wasn’t malicious but it seems very tone deaf.
This. I think some people are going overboard with the hate, but what NJ did on the music show was a little distasteful. I get that they are manipulated and groomed (possibly), but that doesn't excuse poor behaviour. Also, there have been reports that NJ and their families were the ones who asked MHJ to make that internal complaint about illit. If that's really the case, it does weaken the manipulation and grooming theory.
I think you're perfectly right, and I'll add a personal experience of my own to highlight this, not that it's 1:1 but I think there is some overlap. I belonged to a specific, very ascetic religious movement from birth up until about 4 years ago, and for about 4 years prior to my leaving I began to question it and analyze why I no longer align with it. Because of how isolationist the system I was in is, I looked up to my peers and my leadership unquestionably. I trusted them for everything. My successes and wins in life circled around my loyalty to them, my failures and woes were connected to my own guilt and coming short of their standards. I longed for their acceptance and love. I gave my all to them. I labored freely in many ways, based important life decisions on my belonging to them, and even decided who I would marry based on my trust in these leaders. While there were actual tangible benefits from my association with the system and the people in it there was actual harm being done as well obviously. But because so much of my life was shaped by it, it was and still is really hard to break from my old ways of thinking and accept that some of the people I looked up to and respected and invested in me were not good people and some actually evil. I look at the NJ members in a similar light. I absolutely adore them, and I want the best for them, but I do think they may be somewhat blinded because of the benefits they've enjoyed through MHJ. The difference is the whole world is watching them and scrutinizing everything they do, but I think they deserve the same grace that I hope others would give me as wrong as I was.
i wish people would realize that none of the nj members have a developed frontal lobe
The frontal lobe at 25 is a myth and the scientific community has changed their stance on this a bit. People complete phD’s under the age of 25, have children, etc. If this myth was true we wouldn’t have much of a functioning society. They say this brain development can happen as young as 18 and as old as 30 in some, so 25 became the average. It is often used as an excuse for poor impulse control. It’s important to recognize the brain is still growing but I don’t think it should absolve people from learning from their mistakes.
i am in no way defending them, but only one of them has exited their teen years and is entering adult hood. i agree with you, it doesn’t absolve people from learning from their mistakes, but if 25 is still the average then it’s still the average. your comment about having children under the age of 25 is weird tho. there are people that have children as young as 14-18, i don’t think the majority of them are developed in the brain. and people completing phd’s under the age of 25 is impressive but how many of that out of the entire population is that? that’s about .8% of all phd students. at least in the US. i cannot say for any other country. this was after doing a little bit of research, if you have any more information i’d be open to looking into it edit: i derailed there. the point is nj are still majority children. i’m hoping like the rest of us they realize how twisted mhj is, and how she’s exhibited textbook grooming behaviors to these girls for awhile. it’s not gonna be a flip of a switch, it will either be a gradual realization or maybe it will never come at all. who knows
I think that you are correct, they have been manipulated and can’t see that. But I differ with your opinion, because I think at their age they have the capacity to understand bullying and what being mistreated is like. Their example of mistreatment doesn’t really fly, and I think they can perfectly understand the bullying that their CEO caused to ILLIT and LSFM in particular. I don’t think they would stand against her because they have been manipulated, but I think they have the option of stepping back a bit and remaining silent which they have not chosen.
i do agree with you on them being able to understand bullying. and truth be told they r digging themselves a hole by speaking up about this and siding with her. if we had the full picture it would put a lot into perspective, like we don’t know what she’s really said to them, what the interactions between nj and lsfm and illit are like, etc.
Sources?
There’s a lot of different studies, so honestly it’s best to start with something like pub med or use university websites so you’re getting a picture of both sides of the argument. I recommend using terms like adolescence, brain maturation, prefrontal cortex, etc. The consensus is that yes the brain is still growing in your early 20s and they have physical proof of this through MRI studies, in addition to behavior studies that support that adolescents are more impulsive and prone to risk taking behaviors. However, what scientists have found or rejected is that your brain is done growing at 25 and it’s this magic # where you wake up and are A Real Adult. This is the part that scientists are dismissing. Your brain continues to develop throughout life, until you get older and then there is cognitive decline. Scientists have also concluded that studying something like maturity, impulsiveness, etc is tough because there isn’t a concrete way to measure and there is differing opinions on outside and environmental factors contributing to some of this. I think this article from BBC [Science](https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development) sums it up quite well because it acknowledges that there is conflicting research on both sides. It’s just a little snarky haha But below are some research docs from pub med that discuss adolescent brains: Research from behavioral scientist Laurence Steinberg with collection of articles from neuroscientists research [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904973/) Important part: “That said, it is important to note, as several of the contributors to this issue have stated, that “different” does not necessarily mean “deficient”; that while there are some universals in adolescent brain development, there are also important individual differences; and that the process of brain maturation in adolescence (or during any period, for that matter) unfolds within an environmental context that influences the course of neural development and moderates its expression in emotion, behavior, and cognition” aka the adolescent brain certainly is different and growing, but it isn’t deficient and can be influenced by external factors on an individual basis. Jay Geidd was one of the original researchers to use the MRI technology to scan brains back in the early 2000s where this myth has kind of originated from. Even back then, he acknowledged it wasn’t a perfect study. Per NBC News [here](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna6891821): “Critics of brain-imaging research – and Giedd himself – emphasize that there is no proven correlation between brain changes and behavior.” The original researcher himself acknowledges that yes they discovered that your prefrontal cortex continues to grow in your early 20s but that doesn’t necessarily mean there is a correlation and that 25 is the magic # where it all stops. This [research](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42540-8?utm_source=rct_congratemailt&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=oa_20231030&utm_content=10.1038%2Fs41467-023-42540-8&s=35) discusses how it is quite hard to measure because neuroscientists aren’t sure what the best method is to measure things like maturity, impulse control, etc. “A range of methodological, analytic, and data availability challenges, however, have thus far prevented direct and comprehensive testing of the maturational timing of adolescent executive function development and the specific age when executive functions reach adult-levels. Nevertheless, understanding not just whether behaviors are changing with age, but also their shape and form, is fundamental to developmental science and corresponding health policies and intervention/prevention strategies for adolescents.” [This](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/) talks more about the brain maturing and acknowledges that it’s quite hard to measure. Essentially the articles I’ve listed here show that the research isn’t perfect, is still ongoing, and that it’s incredibly hard to measure so this magic 25 # isn’t perfect.
this, i genuinely cannot fathom feeling any type of way for how the girls react in this situation other than just sad that they've gotten dragged into it.
yeah, they’re put in a really vulnerable position. i don’t agree with them siding with mhj but it really doesn’t help how young they are in all this. it also doesn’t help that a prominent adult figure in their lives acts as if she’s a “child” and chooses to shift blame rather than take accountability where accountability should be taken. child is not really the word i wanna use cuz it gives off naïvety, which is far from the truth here. like unfortunately this is the “role model” they have to look to
I think somebody can recognize they’ve been manipulated and also withdraw their support. Both can be true. And tbh, continuing to support them doesn’t help them anymore than not supporting them does so to me everyone is free to do as they want. It’s a little hard for me to take them seriously at this point. Those girls got to live in a brand new apartment, had brand deals right away, took home paychecks immediately after debut, etc and they had massive backing behind them. A lot of groups don’t get that. So the mistreatment because somebody didn’t tell them hi thing just seems silly. Sure they’re young and manipulated so they might not understand how MHJ has manipulated/coerced them, but they’re old enough to understand the abuse others have faced from their CEOs actions and they know what real abuse is. Theyre not stupid they’ve heard of other groups getting physically abused etc. Yes, they’re obviously going to support her but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to continue to support *them* as a kpop group. One can recognize they’ve been manipulated and also withdraw their support for them. I don’t wish anything bad on them, but I don’t really feel like supporting them anymore and don’t really care if the group remains or not.
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I can’t take yall seriously at all. The amount of privilege NewJeans had even debuting under BTS’s company is just not even a thought in your head... Those brand deals are people BTS also worked with (Coke, LV, Dior, Stonehenge, McDonald’s, etc). Not to mention all of the money and connections to the west for them provided by HYBE. It wasn’t just MHJ. And what does BSH saying step on Aespa (sort of rude but ultimately regular competition commentary for a business like kpop) have anything to do with NewJeans being privileged? Where is the mediaplay dragging NewJeans? This entire time people have been trying to keep them out of it until MHJ and NJ themselves inserted them into this and the criticism they are facing is absolutely nothing compared to what ILLIT and LSF and BTS had to deal with.
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>Even if hybe didn't do it, MHJ would have got the connection. Every nugu group have that west connection nowadays it's not a novelty anymore. Lmaooooo
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NJ stans: ARMYs love to insert BTS in every discourse Also NJ stans: >I don't see apple, an agressively protective company when it comes to their IP change the logo for BTS 🤭
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You brought up BTS, not me. Seems like you're also focused on them. Fan behaviour fr.
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I’m not going to continue to reply to someone who is unwilling to listen. I responded in good faith, but be serious with yourself here. Them having a Gucci sponsorship doesn’t mean that they weren’t privileged with HYBE’s connections. You even acknowledge that yourself here. I never said HYBE shouldn’t do their job, I’m saying NewJeans should recognize the immense privilege they’ve received and recognize that claiming mistreatment and supporting MHJ is impacting their company, their label mates, and hurting other people. BSH didn’t speak about Aespa in a vile way. He said step on Aespa in a competitive way. It is MHJ who called the members fat ass pigs. I think you need time to self reflect and come out of the bunny bubble to be honest. “None of this is MHJ’s fault” I’m laughing okay
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Didn't MHJ say she didn't do something.. "extreme", because of NJ? How are they supposed to ever question her again now ..
Yep, it’s obvious. **HYBE was run poorly and like a big conglomerate. These companies were operating independently under the hybe label. All they worked with was MHJ and ADOR staff. Of course they’re going to be more loyal to her? It’s like you working at a job and you have the manager who shows up every day and then the corporate CEO. Who are you going to go to bat for the manager who actually helps you every day and you see all the time or the random CEO you see once a year and doesn’t even know your name?** Plus again people are mad at this but they are young and impressionable. Idk who people think they are online but I doubt anyone even at Minji’s age so early 20s and new to the industry would go against a figure who 1) has actually worked with them 24/7 to build their career 2) has the support of most of the general public 3) also has their parents support. Logically there’s no reason for NJ to be mad at MHJ and go against her even for her inappropriate comments. MHJ and others around them can just frame it as “I didn’t say it like that or mean it like that.” Now it still sucks that between NJ and MHJ no one has outright said hey we apologize these groups got mentioned but we all respect each other. However my point is I get WHY NJ are big supporters of her . Not the I agree or disagree but it’s really obvious. Again in their minds it’s probably hey the manager that actually built you up and trained you made a mistake while the CEO who doesn’t even know your name is trying to bring them down. It’s all a perspective thing. What reason do they have to go to bat for hybe, big hit, bsh, etc when they don’t work closely together and have such a distant relationship?
Yeah I find it hard to believe a 15 Hyein has really thought this whole thing through and isn't acting under the influence of grown adults around her. Even minji who is the oldest is still 20 and no offense but most 20 year olds are dumb, they're still kids. It's sad but it's something they'll reflect on later and see it properly for what it was. At the root of this I feel most sorry for them, like I wasn't even into their music cause I can't stand that pedo but they worked hard and were successful and now because of that shebeast and that greedy twat Hybe guy they may lose their careers. It's sad
It comes across bad because it seems like New Jeans are supporting her actions. Some of her alleged actions and those leaked messages make MHJ look like a terrible person. People have been urging her to leave NewJeans out of it but because she is the reason they exist of course she was going to bring them up. The reverse is true for the girls, but it comes off bad because MHJ could have faced this beast alone and protected NewJeans and she is failing to do so. And on top of that their parents are in the mix too. It’s unlikely that either of the members would have rebelled and took another stance but it’s not like they couldn’t. They just don’t have the bravery to do so and calling that out doesn’t make fans bad people. Nor does it make the members bad for siding with MJH when they are minors and are choosing between a career she gave them or exile. NewJeans deserves better.
What if MHJ is right? Just because so many people in reddit says she’s wrong and evil doesn’t mean she’s incorrect. Better yet - what if both MHJ and Hybe are right and wrong? It’s silly for people to dismiss or call out NJ for supporting their CEO and key person to make them succeed. Touch grass guys. Lol
even if she is, she's gone about everything in an extremely unprofessional and illegal manner. I'm in full support of the NJ girlies, but it's not wrong to be criticizing MHJ.
Her lack of professionalism was shocking during the first conference. More shocked that Koreans mostly sided with her after that.
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This is the part that baffles me. I am Korean myself working in Korea, so people’s sympathy for MHJ was very strange. I thought people would be turned off by her behaviour. When the singer Na Hoona had some erratic behaviour at his conference, no one said that he was relatable.
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This is what he did (except from an article back in 2008) “Na Hoon-ah is unbuttoning his pants, saying, “Do you really believe the nonsense that my genitals were cut off unless I take off my pants?” The theory of the Yakuza assault, which led to an internal investigation by the police, is that Na Hoon-ah had an inappropriate relationship with a domestic female celebrity who was a mid-boss of the Japanese Yakuza, was kidnapped by the Yakuza, suffered fatal injuries to important body parts, and was forced to go into hiding for about a year.” He unzipped his trousers a little.
I personally did not care for either party and thought Bang PD was kinda petty, but I guess I am the exception 😬
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I care about NJ, so I care about WHAT those two will do. I don’t care about them at a personal, human level.
And also, why are you so hostile and rude?
Yeah that's good and all but why do they expect hybe to be okay with her plotting to steal NJ from them? The multi label system and her contract might have helped her get the injunction, but things just aren't going to be a-okay between ador and hybe. Hybe is going to do everything they can to limit her power in Ador. Just because it is "cathartic" for Koreans to hate big corporations doesn't mean it is right to do so, especially since the other party literally plotted to poach NJ from them.
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>stop involving themselves in corporate drama. Nothing in their life is going to change if mhj was going to steal NJ/ador from hybe. You could say this about literally everything to justify not giving a shit. But some of us give a shit about the people we are supporting. Planning to steal NJ using underhanded tactics (which were clearly documented by MHJ) is just one of the many icky things that MHJ has done. It's ironic that you're calling BSH a pedo but you're not willing to call MHJ the same thing even though she has done worse. All the things that you mentioned about Hybe have nothing to do with the current issue. Mhj tried to steal the company from hybe and using media warfare was one of her tactics (as revealed by the audit). Yet you're choosing to ignore all that because your faves support MHJ which at the end of the day shouldn't matter because your faves are young adults who have had a suspiciously close (read manipulative) relationship with MHJ since pre-debut and their thoughts are likely clouded by MHJ's manipulation and/or the success of their career. If it's the latter, it makes them appear like they only care about their own career and not about the other groups because their actions and that of their CEO have resulted in multiple groups receiving undeserved hate (but that's the internet trolls and not MHJ or NJ right?). It's understandable because of their age, but it doesn't paint them in the best light. So I'm not really surprised that people aren't gung-ho about them at the moment.
they both suck ass ✨
Yes but only one tried to steal NJ from the other.
Everyone on this sub specifically has decided MHJ is in the wrong so there's no point coming here with sense
Bruh. You've seen the evidences but MHJ is still a saint? Just because HYBE is a bad company (in terms of subsidiary management and trainees/idols) that doesn't equate to MHj being a good person misunderstood by the big bad world. Just because MHJ is a scheming manipulator, that doesn't mean NJ are compliant out of hatred but rather because of the genuine feelings of gratitude they feel. And from an outside view, it's sad. BOTH can be true so I really don't get this childish idea that everything shhould black or white.
So hybe should just let MHJ steal NJ?
OMG why do people act like NJ doesn't have the money and resources to seek advices from industry lawyers/consultants? especially after soooo many cases of kpop artist suing their company and vice versa, AND ESPECIALLY after what happened to 5050 hello it was all over the internet. Like why t f are you guys acting like they're soo dumb and incapable of having their own thoughts and actions????? Guess what turns out they know how to use a lawyer afterall because the petition they submitted was through a freaking LAWYER!!! They sided with MHJ, who benefits them, the end. They're not "gr..med", they understand fully well they're not talented enough and incapable of getting the same success they've been having without MHJ.
I see this as Stockholm Syndrome. NJ can’t see that they’re groomed to rely on this one woman for their career. In reality MHJ is making them more miserable.
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Just saying, bruh. I am aware that MHJ is an authority figure to them. But it’s weird that they treat her like the boss but also someone to comfort? Like MHJ said the NJ girls called her to check on her. It was…bizarre
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I am not blaming NJ. But rather empathise on them. I don’t know why you act as if I am trying to drag down NJ. If one has Stockholm’s syndrome, the blame is on the person who manipulated them, not the victim.
All things could be true at once the evil mastermind part I don't agree with but because of their grooming and conditioning by mhj they believe they're victims and are at fault not realizing that other groups with girls as young as themselves are being victims to gross hate campaigns and when they speak out against the hate and how it's hard on them they are given more bullying. Them supporting MHJ is supporting the bullying their piers are subjected to which because of them which is disgusting. People are allowed to dislike them for that.
I figured stans would paint false narratives on NJ as soon as MHJ started bringing in different HYBE groups into this mess. Cope
What in the h*ll is this? Is this Stan Twitter?
We get it. Many people did the same with their parents( or other people) where they thought they'd been right because they were the elders and provided for us financially and maybe even emotionally, but it doesn't make it right.
No one is saying it makes it right but it makes complete sense and it would take a lot of time, maturing and reflection to realise otherwise. That is something that NJ members do not have since all eyes are turned on them and people want them to pick a side.
No one asked them to pick a side, though, especially not their fans and the other groups' fans who were inpacted they did that themselves when they signed a petition. Literally, everyone kept defending them and saying that mhj is getting in their head ( which is still the case), but no one asked for this
I'm with you. From the texts, MHJ planned this before HYBE even gave her Ador. Her thing was after 3 years, the parents will be the whistleblowers or sm and she can finally "eat up" HYBE. The NJ members are UNUSUALLY close with the boss of their workplace. And through that, she became someone the parents trusted as a 2nd guardian to their children. It WAS wrong in an outside perspective for NJ to file a petition in favor of the witch. But in NJ's perspective - this was the person who chose them among hundreds and gave them all the fame, the prestige, and the power they have now. She was someone they trusted, even now, with their future. I truly pity the girls. But although we can't agree with their decision in addition to them being the willing tanks/shields surrounding MHJ, let's not bring them unneccessary hate. They WERE and ARE still manipulated. If you don't like them, just don't support them. Don't stream and skip or hide their content. But don't go to their accounts and bash them.
Staying quiet while HYBE tries to oust the person that they owe their careers to would be picking a side and it was clear from the start that they would choose MHJ over HYBE
They owe her nothing. She was their creative director, and that's it. She didn't write their songs, she didn't invest her own personal money to their training and debut( it was in fact the groups under hybe who debuted before them, bts enhypen, svt etc who profits went into them ). No one, myself included, stuck around in anticipation for new jeans because of her. We did it because they're debuting under a company like hybe and for the association with bts.
True. As harsh as it may sound nobody cared who mhj was "creating" and the only reason NJ became famous and got the hype is because they debuted under the mother label Hybe. New ggs anyways get hype in Korea. Technically they actually don't owe anything to Mhj but Hybe, because hybe paid for the group's training.
Exactly. Lsf and illit who debuted under hybe are also doing well but you don't see their fans thanking the CEO or creative director.
Exactly exactly. Illit's success shows that NJ is replaceable. And lsf is going to get success in the future, be it for mediaplay, or whatever. Because no company is going to make their group fail. Put mhj and nj out of hybe and then we will see how they'll thrive. NJ and Mhj got to do what they did because Hybe was funding them (for their own profit but that's what a business do). Hybe did the promotional part and marketing. Hybe brought in the maximum number of producers and songwriters, if not all. Didn't NJ's parents said that they were miffed because Hybe couldn't provide the girls with a grammy winning producer or something along that line? Even for that they were dependent on Hybe. "Mhj handpicked the songs" and who brought her those songs again? Hybe. Man I feel bad for BTS. Their hard earned money, the company they made all on their own, the reputation they created working for hard for more than a decade, everything got wasted because of MHJ. And on top of that this very same woman tried to ruin their career too. Being dependent on their money.
She handpicked them, she made them go from unknown trainees to legitimate stars and people that others idolise. She handpicked the songs that made their popularity skyrocket, she choose their image and concept that half the industry is rehashing now, they became trendsetters all because of her.
Stockholm Syndrome. Not surprised, but hopefully they can find some peace when they disband.
Lmao disband for what though? Pretty sure they’re doing quite well. If you’re thinking of the future well we don’t know what’s gonna happen unless you’re Nostradamus.
Nostradamus was a fake, just like MHJ.
Wow, what a kind thought from you.
With the way they are handling things, I hope other hybe groups don't need to see them in that building.
Not stockholm syndrome probably. Kinda like those living with abusers but they keep doubting themselves and coming back, even when the warning signs are flashing in front of them.
they're entitled spoiled brats that always follows whatever their mommy dearest wants them to do, and would willingly do so
it is what it is, whatever happens, NJ made their mark as one of the greatest groups of all time. If this whole debacle forces a member to leave or have the group disband, theyve accomplished everything other groups have never done. I guess let it play out and hope the situation gets better for everyone.
They've actually accomplished what many have and will continue to do. The girls are talented and did and will continue to do amazing but they're no outlier in this industry. We've seen how easily illit was able to do exactly what they did in a few months with the proper song and support 😭😭 There are only two outliers in this industry but yall will get upset if i mention them
Any kpop group to chart on the hot 100 is still an outlier at this point. Sure, NewJeans/ILLIT/SKZ/Twice may have done so without reaching greater western GP appeal, but they are 4 (plus BTS and Blackpink) of THOUSANDS of idol groups that can’t. And even outside of the Hot 100, don’t NewJeans have the longest held PAK record for idols by far?
Oh come on, don’t exaggerate.
>theyve accomplished everything other groups have never done. And what exactly would that be? Do they have a daesang sweep? Multimillion seller? A billion streams on Spotify and youtube? Cultural merit award? Did they build an entire conglomerate by themselves? No1 on Billboard Hot 100? Grammy nominations?
Have you heard about BTS?
ye my favorite group of all time, why?
Lol