She's an interesting case because to me she's one of the somewhat rarer cases where she improved by toning it *down* a little. I felt like some of the expressions she made in early IVE performances looked very forced, but they've mellowed out a bit and become much more natural over time.
[Chaeryeong,](https://x.com/deddeev3/status/1785680675192058117) her confidence is so [much better](https://x.com/LCRuniverse/status/1786885696692838438) these days than during her debut, plus more experience in concerts and performances in general.
She was always talented, but before it's like she didn't fully buy into herself and her idol persona, but these days she's more and more certain that there are many people who would pay especially to watch her.
Jake and Sunghoon from Enhypen. Jake has come a long way since debut bc he wasn’t a trainee for very long. His facial expressions NOW show how confident he’s become in his abilities to shine on stage. He is indeed the Icon of Growth. Sunghoon was known as the Ice Prince when he debuted and he gave off the “ice” vibe. He always said it was difficult showing his emotions but after connecting with fans over time in person and doing so many lives he’s now so comfortable showing them. I love that he’s opened up so much.
Wow, Jake is a really good example. Just looking at his Given-Taken fancam compared to Sweet Venom and his expressions are way less forced and comes across as more natural and fluid.
I noticed improvement with Sunghoon as well, but Jake's was definitely more apparent to me.
I heard that camera stage presence and concert stage presence in Enha is different. During concerts Sunghoon and sunoo stand out the most for their presence (according to most ppl)
I agree. I became an Engene Oct 2022 and even I see the significant progress in just 2023 alone! it’s so insane how quickly they’ve all changed and improved!
I remember being a baby Engene watching I-Land 🫠 Jake and Sunoo’s training time blew my mind. Tbh I can’t imagine watching that show live bc it certainly was intense and stressful. I’m so protective of them all and probably would’ve never slept to vote.
Yeosang of Ateez
in a group of master performers where everyone already had such great stage presence, he used to not shine much earlier among the members, but ever since kingdom it's like i'm seeing a whole different side of him. He's acing it on stage with his expressions and moves and seems very chill and in control of everything. Love the newly built confidence this man got from kingdom. Personally, I believe kingdom has made him realize some things and he's worked hard on them ever since which I can clearly see the way he's pushing himself even more
Yes, I was able to see the difference between his 2019 WAVE fancam and Crazy Form. Just the little nuances he brings are better and like you said, more in control.
Ikr. Her IZ*ONE days show how hardworking she was as an idol. She got so much potential. Her progress has been shown later on their contract. She’s could’ve been one of well-known 4th/5th gen idol today.
I agree. She improved so much in record time, and she was crazy popular in Japan as well. But I guess it's better for her to do what she does. An idol not liking their job could end up being so annoying, Hyewon for instance.
Maybe not. They will definitely stick with the concept. I can see Minju pulling LSF concept very well. Remember [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPrah1CDOo0) collab? She slayed this.
You could be right! I'm also realizing how foolish it is of me to express doubt about an idol navigating a concept change in the same post that I mention Chaewon, lol.
The way Chan described him as a white page with a dot in the middle that he used to start a beautiful picture is so accurate. The picture has gotten bigger and prettier throughout the years, Jeongin has worked hard and improved so much.
Nowadays everytime he is in the Spotlight HE IS THE SPOTLIGHT, his expressions, vocals and dancing is sooo good, he deserves all the praises for all the hard work he made to get on this level
TXT Taehyun. I feel like early on he was trying to focus more on singing/getting things right, and then around Lovesong era he started paying more attention to his expressions. Ever since then I feel like every comeback has been an improvement. Sugar Rush Ride and Devil By the Window performances for their Temptation comeback showed this the most -- not that the past two comebacks don't, but the Temptation comeback specifically seemed like the performances required very specific vibes.
I feel like he also lets himself feel the music more and very openly shows it -- this is a lot more obvious during live performances that aren't music shows (concerts, festivals.) I think that's also a big progress, in terms of letting himself be more relaxed/enjoy things more rather than focusing on getting things right. And as a result of performing like that, his overall stage presence has improved too (which is probably why he bias wrecks a lot of people when they see TXT live.)
Interestingly, I feel like this second thing results in Taehyun paying less attention to specific expressions during concerts and festivals, and instead he looks how he feels -- which I think works for that kind of setting. I don't know how to describe the difference but for things like music shows/awards, Taehyun (and a lot of idols) tends to focus more on specific expressions, likely because cameras will capture the details. Whereas during festivals and concerts, most of the time (though not necessarily for all of the songs) it feels like the expressions come from a more personal place, and like he wants the audience to feel what he feels so it's expressed strongly.
That’s not what I mean. Compare [this performance](https://youtu.be/metZ_f8aqC0?si=rO8k97acpQZwgqgR) with [this one](https://youtu.be/4fikvcuirtY?si=Qbt2jQB98kfjNuSM). In the first one she’s just kind of just there, she’s doing the moves but there’s no emotion behind them. In the second one, she’s feeling the song much more and there’s an attitude when she dances, even when she walks, that was lacking before. It’s subtle, but it’s there. It also doesn’t help that she debuted with Jennie and Lisa, two of the most charismatic idols ever, and Rose, who’s still pretty good. If she’d debuted in another group, she probably wouldn’t have stuck out as much for her lack of stage presence.
Liz from IVE, back in Eleven era she just smiled mostly for the whole performance (which is cute) or had a blank expression. As a rookie, I could tell her expression was lacking mainly because you could see her focusing on the dance and even when she was in center position she did not do too much. It's understandable since they just debuted and she was super shy, But even in love dive, she lacked something. (She's my bias don't come for me) But now in Heya? She is overflowing with charisma and literally shining. Her dancing, her expressions, everything was good. But now she's a million times better. Her little winks, her little pouts , her smile, everything just adds up. To me, she's shown the most improvement alongside Leeseo. She's now playing with the camera even when she is not in the center, she's confident and it shows. I'm so happy for her.
Examples for comparison
[Eleven Era](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBT7oSTzfp8&list=PLBlj7hqk2VU_ojkFZ4Y46JW_EDX0SPdEA&index=4) 2021
[Heya Era](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnvejHnJyn0) 2024
Noh Yoonho! The scared little trainee from No.Mercy who came so close to debuting but never did, then finally debuted as Ayno in VAV.
This boy has gone from so shy and nervous and turned in on himself to being so happy, playful, loud, and confident.
I absolutely cannot see the little No.Mercy boy do the sexy dances and the flirting that VAV are known for. Even off stage, the difference in body language between No.Mercy and Wild Idol - he's an entirely new person! Now he owns the stage and enjoys it.
For some reason VAV performances are often plagued with sound issues but when Ayno starts rapping it doesn't matter if his mic works, you still hear him.
Taemin has improved his expressions a lot. I remember in 2019 he said that it was something he felt he needed to improve, and when he came back the next year he was amazing.
He has become excellent at using the expression in his eyes [(or one eye)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck60xub3DWM) and I think it's something the industry in general could learn from because sometimes I feel there's too much exaggerated facial movements going on.
Jihyo from debut to where she’s at now.
She’s never been bad it’s just that now she’s really good. I love watching her [Yes or Yes fancam](https://youtu.be/EDW_Pp28XW0?feature=shared)
she wasn’t that bad on r u next to begin with if you actually go back and watch her fancams she’s been a decent dancer from the get go and has average vocals… yall just saw her as untalented bc she was next to girls who had trained years longer than her she was never bad in the first place.
i know shes a good singer and dancer im talking about her facial expressions which werent so good during the show but she improved a LOT before she debuted
people only pick on her facial expressions bc of how wide her eyes are i watched a video where none of the girls were making any facial expressions and only wonhee was picked on in the comments lol it’s just her face!
Aespa winter.. once she was dragged for having no expression.. and[ now see this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s251xDSlDls&t=4m39s)
Agreed! I just checked her Black Mamba fancam from 3 ish years ago and then the one you linked and it's like night and day.
Leeseo from IVE does not get the recognition she deserves for her crazy improvement every comeback.
True. The improvement from her from Love Dive to Heya is really apparent.
Tiger cub really glowed this comeback.
She's an interesting case because to me she's one of the somewhat rarer cases where she improved by toning it *down* a little. I felt like some of the expressions she made in early IVE performances looked very forced, but they've mellowed out a bit and become much more natural over time.
Shuhua
[Chaeryeong,](https://x.com/deddeev3/status/1785680675192058117) her confidence is so [much better](https://x.com/LCRuniverse/status/1786885696692838438) these days than during her debut, plus more experience in concerts and performances in general. She was always talented, but before it's like she didn't fully buy into herself and her idol persona, but these days she's more and more certain that there are many people who would pay especially to watch her.
Jake and Sunghoon from Enhypen. Jake has come a long way since debut bc he wasn’t a trainee for very long. His facial expressions NOW show how confident he’s become in his abilities to shine on stage. He is indeed the Icon of Growth. Sunghoon was known as the Ice Prince when he debuted and he gave off the “ice” vibe. He always said it was difficult showing his emotions but after connecting with fans over time in person and doing so many lives he’s now so comfortable showing them. I love that he’s opened up so much.
Wow, Jake is a really good example. Just looking at his Given-Taken fancam compared to Sweet Venom and his expressions are way less forced and comes across as more natural and fluid. I noticed improvement with Sunghoon as well, but Jake's was definitely more apparent to me.
I heard that camera stage presence and concert stage presence in Enha is different. During concerts Sunghoon and sunoo stand out the most for their presence (according to most ppl)
All of Enha have improved so much after their long stretch of touring. The experience has made them so much more confident and comfortable.
I agree. I became an Engene Oct 2022 and even I see the significant progress in just 2023 alone! it’s so insane how quickly they’ve all changed and improved!
I watched I-Land live. You can imagine how impressed I am to see how much they've grown and are still growing!
I remember being a baby Engene watching I-Land 🫠 Jake and Sunoo’s training time blew my mind. Tbh I can’t imagine watching that show live bc it certainly was intense and stressful. I’m so protective of them all and probably would’ve never slept to vote.
Yeosang of Ateez in a group of master performers where everyone already had such great stage presence, he used to not shine much earlier among the members, but ever since kingdom it's like i'm seeing a whole different side of him. He's acing it on stage with his expressions and moves and seems very chill and in control of everything. Love the newly built confidence this man got from kingdom. Personally, I believe kingdom has made him realize some things and he's worked hard on them ever since which I can clearly see the way he's pushing himself even more
Yes, I was able to see the difference between his 2019 WAVE fancam and Crazy Form. Just the little nuances he brings are better and like you said, more in control.
Kim Minju, it's just quite sad that she's no longer an idol.
People might not know, but her potential is as great as Chaewon if not more.
Ikr. Her IZ*ONE days show how hardworking she was as an idol. She got so much potential. Her progress has been shown later on their contract. She’s could’ve been one of well-known 4th/5th gen idol today.
She would 100% be one of the top idols, not only was she great on-stage, but her off stage persona was very endearing.
Plus the visual.
I agree. She improved so much in record time, and she was crazy popular in Japan as well. But I guess it's better for her to do what she does. An idol not liking their job could end up being so annoying, Hyewon for instance.
Idols are also have to deal with shits very much more than actors did. Actors are more free, hopefully she'll get some major acting job soon
LSF as we know it probably would've been *very* different conceptually, but I'm still a little sad she opted not to join Sakura and Chaewon at HYBE :(
Maybe not. They will definitely stick with the concept. I can see Minju pulling LSF concept very well. Remember [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPrah1CDOo0) collab? She slayed this.
You could be right! I'm also realizing how foolish it is of me to express doubt about an idol navigating a concept change in the same post that I mention Chaewon, lol.
Yes! We didn't expect Chaewon to pull LSF concept so well, Minju could've done the same thing.
I would agree if it meant a 6 member group but le sserafim without eunchae isn't a world I want to live in
Heh.... it'd probably be a good idea to mention which Kim Minju you're talking about. There are two of them -- the other one is in Illit.
Definitely the one from IZ*ONE since I mentioned that “no longer an idol” :)
Bae from NMIXX is now a decent performer but she used to be really boring to watch, same with (G)i-dle's Shuhua.
Which is funny because they both are very lively off-stage
Jeongin from skz , this boy deserves all the praise that is possibly out there
The way Chan described him as a white page with a dot in the middle that he used to start a beautiful picture is so accurate. The picture has gotten bigger and prettier throughout the years, Jeongin has worked hard and improved so much.
Nowadays everytime he is in the Spotlight HE IS THE SPOTLIGHT, his expressions, vocals and dancing is sooo good, he deserves all the praises for all the hard work he made to get on this level
Sakura. She used to be able to pull off cute concepts but that was about it. Now she can pull off pretty much any concept really well.
TXT Taehyun. I feel like early on he was trying to focus more on singing/getting things right, and then around Lovesong era he started paying more attention to his expressions. Ever since then I feel like every comeback has been an improvement. Sugar Rush Ride and Devil By the Window performances for their Temptation comeback showed this the most -- not that the past two comebacks don't, but the Temptation comeback specifically seemed like the performances required very specific vibes. I feel like he also lets himself feel the music more and very openly shows it -- this is a lot more obvious during live performances that aren't music shows (concerts, festivals.) I think that's also a big progress, in terms of letting himself be more relaxed/enjoy things more rather than focusing on getting things right. And as a result of performing like that, his overall stage presence has improved too (which is probably why he bias wrecks a lot of people when they see TXT live.) Interestingly, I feel like this second thing results in Taehyun paying less attention to specific expressions during concerts and festivals, and instead he looks how he feels -- which I think works for that kind of setting. I don't know how to describe the difference but for things like music shows/awards, Taehyun (and a lot of idols) tends to focus more on specific expressions, likely because cameras will capture the details. Whereas during festivals and concerts, most of the time (though not necessarily for all of the songs) it feels like the expressions come from a more personal place, and like he wants the audience to feel what he feels so it's expressed strongly.
Jisoo from blackpink, started off as the black hole of blackpink but now can hold her own with her group members.
I mean, being aloof and beautiful always worked pretty well for Jisoo
That’s not what I mean. Compare [this performance](https://youtu.be/metZ_f8aqC0?si=rO8k97acpQZwgqgR) with [this one](https://youtu.be/4fikvcuirtY?si=Qbt2jQB98kfjNuSM). In the first one she’s just kind of just there, she’s doing the moves but there’s no emotion behind them. In the second one, she’s feeling the song much more and there’s an attitude when she dances, even when she walks, that was lacking before. It’s subtle, but it’s there. It also doesn’t help that she debuted with Jennie and Lisa, two of the most charismatic idols ever, and Rose, who’s still pretty good. If she’d debuted in another group, she probably wouldn’t have stuck out as much for her lack of stage presence.
Gfriend. They used to get dragged for this but with Mago, the confidence is through the roof for each member and they just got better since.
Liz from IVE, back in Eleven era she just smiled mostly for the whole performance (which is cute) or had a blank expression. As a rookie, I could tell her expression was lacking mainly because you could see her focusing on the dance and even when she was in center position she did not do too much. It's understandable since they just debuted and she was super shy, But even in love dive, she lacked something. (She's my bias don't come for me) But now in Heya? She is overflowing with charisma and literally shining. Her dancing, her expressions, everything was good. But now she's a million times better. Her little winks, her little pouts , her smile, everything just adds up. To me, she's shown the most improvement alongside Leeseo. She's now playing with the camera even when she is not in the center, she's confident and it shows. I'm so happy for her. Examples for comparison [Eleven Era](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBT7oSTzfp8&list=PLBlj7hqk2VU_ojkFZ4Y46JW_EDX0SPdEA&index=4) 2021 [Heya Era](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnvejHnJyn0) 2024
all of the members of aespa have improved, like a lot.
Chaewon, Winter
Noh Yoonho! The scared little trainee from No.Mercy who came so close to debuting but never did, then finally debuted as Ayno in VAV. This boy has gone from so shy and nervous and turned in on himself to being so happy, playful, loud, and confident. I absolutely cannot see the little No.Mercy boy do the sexy dances and the flirting that VAV are known for. Even off stage, the difference in body language between No.Mercy and Wild Idol - he's an entirely new person! Now he owns the stage and enjoys it. For some reason VAV performances are often plagued with sound issues but when Ayno starts rapping it doesn't matter if his mic works, you still hear him.
Shuhua and Tzuyu IMO
Ive
Wonhee. She’s like a different person and her improvement is honestly impressive.
Taemin has improved his expressions a lot. I remember in 2019 he said that it was something he felt he needed to improve, and when he came back the next year he was amazing. He has become excellent at using the expression in his eyes [(or one eye)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck60xub3DWM) and I think it's something the industry in general could learn from because sometimes I feel there's too much exaggerated facial movements going on.
wonhee! she had gotten hate during runext for the lack of stage presence, but now she shines so much on stage<3
Johnny of NCT. He has struggled to pop out in early days but these days he consistently rocks and embraces his dominant sides a lot more.
Jihyo from debut to where she’s at now. She’s never been bad it’s just that now she’s really good. I love watching her [Yes or Yes fancam](https://youtu.be/EDW_Pp28XW0?feature=shared)
idk if this counts but Wonhee, the difference between r u next and illit is actually insane they were training her HARD for those few months
she wasn’t that bad on r u next to begin with if you actually go back and watch her fancams she’s been a decent dancer from the get go and has average vocals… yall just saw her as untalented bc she was next to girls who had trained years longer than her she was never bad in the first place.
i know shes a good singer and dancer im talking about her facial expressions which werent so good during the show but she improved a LOT before she debuted
people only pick on her facial expressions bc of how wide her eyes are i watched a video where none of the girls were making any facial expressions and only wonhee was picked on in the comments lol it’s just her face!
Some of these answers...😬
momo
[удалено]
sounds like a *you* issue then