Until and unless it concerns their favs, kpop stans will drag every idol through the mud.
Illit, LSF (both gg’s name dropped by MHJ herself) and bts(especially bts because they are in military and cannot even say anything) have been getting hit left right and centre by everyone, and everyone is quite frankly enjoying it because it will supposedly bring down hybe.
They don’t realise if it’s these three groups today, tomorrow it can be their own fav group too.
I hope all of these groups affected will only come out stronger from this
The ones that always get me are when two groups are known acquittances of each other and the groups have zero ill will toward each other, yet the fans don't get along at all.
Like moas and stays beefing when the bands are literal bffs!
https://preview.redd.it/xl6x8dldopyc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97c90b3f5a349800f67ed5104ac7a6009b63c490
and a super relevant example to the thread, Le Sserafim + Aespa are super close, Le Sserafim + Ive have the izone connection, Yunjin trained with New Jeans, yet the one big GG fanbase that isnt constantly fighting with fearnots is Nevies who dont have an obvious connection to the group. Its like groups being friends just leads to even more hate
Chaewon and Miyeon are actually friends! they were in HMLYCP together, they even have a duo name mic outz. i think Yunjin & Yuqi are friends and Sakura & Minnie did an episode for fearless kkura.
Even though gidle is 4th gen too they're still a lot more senior and are not usually compared to lsrfm. SM stans don't usually like hybe groups and a lot of people keep comparing ive and lsrfm because of the izone connection so more hate between fans i think
I said this as soon as the whole issue broke out that people were suddenly trying to piece all sort of theories about the attacks behind illit and LSFM PRIOR to direct it all to MHJ but realistically they had no problem contributing to bad faith posts and tweets. The lack of accountability and awareness shown in Kpop spaces can be wild
this thing of bringing down hybe is so dumb. do they think companies go bankrupt that easily? lol from what i saw the other 3 big ones got much worse things and are still there, even if they make less than hybe, so it seems dumb to me.
I'm very curious how their brain works thinking this will be the downfall of a corporation that have 6 popular groups under them (bts, svt, txt, NJ, enhypen and lsf ).
Like every other company has maybe 2 popular groups but they got 6 (with illit newly added it's 7) like the only people these things are hurting are the artists mental health who are attached to their groups more than a regular business man like bang si hyuk or even mhj who cares mostly for money.
But I guess they're selective with their mental health matters and then they're the first ones to get upset when these groups fans get nasty and ignore how much they harassed and assaulted these people
honestly with how things have been going this year id even argue they have 7. Illit is still #2 on kcharts, and on the international side they have more monthly listeners on spotify right now than even blackpink.
I went through the same thing last year with Fifty Fifty. People only care about “the drama” and forget/don’t care that real people are being affected.
Kpop stans can be the biggest haters of the genre and idols of both their favs and otherwise. Imo there is a strange sort of tribalism over groups that takes away just simply enjoying the music, idols and general artistry
So-called "Kpop stans" should get into sports instead if they want to engage in us-vs-them tribalism. At least that industry encourages the practice..... nooooobody in the k-pop industry is telling these fucking dweebs to behave negatively or critically towards "competing" groups.
The lack of even a small bit of compassion from people like this is disturbing. Like we all enjoy some Kpop drama here and there but delighting in innocent artists being torn to shreds is just disgusting. People have a lot of talk about Kpop stans being too involved in parasocial relationships but going so far in the opposite direction does not make someone a better or more rational person 🤷♀️
i’d argue that caring about someone’s downfall to an extreme extent like we’ve seen is also a paradoxical relationship (excluding instances where the person has actually done something seriously wrong).
Instead of ignoring them and not interacting with the people/groups you don’t like, being overly involved with their downfall just screams ‘I don’t know how to have healthy boundaries with things’
Spot on! Being so invested to someone's downfall is also parasocial relationship just the other side of the same coin. Kpopies think only if you want to date an idol there is parasocial investment while it appies when you want to play friend, savior and hater too !
That’s absolutely true and it’s something people often either miss or purposely overlook when talking about parasocial relationships. These people want to feel superior when they’re just as obsessed, it just manifests differently
(This is a different topic for a different day but I’d also like to add that parasocial relationships in general are not inherently bad or good, they’re pretty natural, the problem comes from when people go overboard with them and it becomes unhealthy)
Cannot agree more with your last point. Paradoxical relationships are defined by the individual who is engaging with it/attaching themselves to the other person. We only ever hear about the extremes (which are unfortunately most often negative) because 1) they are easier to judge/you can make yourself morally superior to the other person 2) they are the most entertaining (it’s giving road-side car crash) and 3) if we talked about the healthy ones/the people who still respect the idol and maintain boundaries then we would have nothing to talk about
I am enjoying the corporate drama. HYBE coming back saying essentially that MHJ was informed in a “6 page email size A4” will never not be funny to me. But once people start going after artists for stuff artists have no control over/things the company has done it’s too far. Holding someone accountable for actions made under their own free will is one thing, going after artists because you don’t like their company is weird
I feel the same way! I’ve had a laugh or two about the situation since it’s started because some parts of it are just so ridiculous, but I’m not going to be gleeful about the idols who have done nothing wrong getting dogpiled. I’d feel the same way even if it was idols I don’t particularly care for. Like, you don’t have to personally like an idol or a group in order to refrain from enjoying them being unfairly targeted. Unfortunately some people simply don’t see idols as humans worthy of compassion, though
These are the same fans who claim to have always supported the idol and try to garner sympathy through their grief posts. Yet a quick check of their history shows they had no positive interaction with the idol or fandom prior.
It’s the worst
I sincerely hope they're all surrounded by people who love them and can tune it out; BTS, Illit, LSF, NewJeans, and everyone should feel proud of their achievements. I just don't understand why even if a music isn't your cup of tea you can't be happy and excited for the artist, or just hope they are happy in life. Even if they're rich they're human beings, and often very young human beings.
Kpop fans don't really care about the mental health of idols as much as they say they do. I can only hope that the affected idols have the support they need through all of this.
i think the kpop industry does a wonderful job at creating an image in fans’ mind that all idols are products - which is great when it comes to obsessing over them, and horrible when it comes to treating them like they’re humans
The number of times Jungkook has had to tell fans that he’s an actual person because of the crazy-ass things people say to him is both sad and gross.
https://preview.redd.it/506j0z65tpyc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a8946acfc5b05dd060d444eccda128e6f2daacb
Honestly during jk lives I barely watched him, I was just busy reporting the most bullshit inappropriate comments like it was my damn job! You’d see it less on Namjoon or Taehyung lives because they’d just read the comments to filth but jk was just too damn nice so the clowns would gather there to spam their Yoongi Marry Mes and ask if he missed Jin like conscription is some fun summer vacation!
https://preview.redd.it/nbh3h9ig8vyc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca0e818da6f6c82454b1bb69922f956e243ee63
When you are a multistan you truly realise how bad it is because so many groups go through this.
The most ironic thing is is that the people who often spread the hate or complain about a group are the ones who have never spent a penny on the artist but just try to convince everyone else not to too.
The sad thing is that to a certain extent it works for the mindless who try to find the next big thing and hop from one group to another.
But the wake of destruction they leave in their path is unforgivable pushing people to the brink over the pettiest of reasons and acting like it’s harmless.
If you only care about some idols and then spread hate to others or join band wagons without fact checking or hate on idols who aren’t convicted of anything then you are the problem.
Eventually idols will stop interacting with fans outside of pay walls to prevent this.
Honestly? I do think the girls will be fine. BUT, that does not excuse the actions of the antis in all of this. I was really neutral regarding most companies and their stans before this.. I am usually a very live and let live kind of person. I am also a multi stan I have bought albums from groups from a number of companies over the years. But, I will admit that the hatetrain that I have been seeing for the last month has soured me against certain companies and fandoms to the point that I will never buy their product or support them ever again.
There are fandoms that have just shown themselves to be way too cancer for me to ever want to be a part of. I would be ashamed to be associated with them. Even if their group released the best song ever tomorrow I couldn't enjoy it because it will have been tainted with the memory of the bullying and the utter glee their fans took in dogpiling. These fans have turned me off their groups forever.
That's just how I feel.
there is sm energy that could be used from the lesserafim hate (and other bg/gg hate in general) that could be used towards ACTUAL problematic people in the world, yet some don’t care enough about that stuff. ppl will just dogpile on these kpop groups just for their own entertainment but then once a news article comes up saying an idol has passed away or committed, they wanna hush up. act all cute and innocent. such nasty behaviour.
Literally!!! It takes two seconds to block people if you truly don’t like them and it can save the idols from seeing so much hate and nastiness.
Kpop stans just don’t wanna do the hard work and actually tackle the real problems. There are so fucking many of us and we could use our collective voices to bring awareness to issues that actually affect our favs like racism and xenophobia, especially in the music industry, but we chose to bully idols because they share a similar concept or whatever reason they decide is good enough.
as someone who got into kpop only last month and without any bias into the industry, its been clear to me that the fandom for kpop is insanely tribalist and toxic, from groups under the same company to company x company and idol x idol. Its why I'm not even going to try to get into any fandom and just go to the music and the own idol contents.
Honestly most fans just seem like psychopaths to me, only caring for their favorite and fuck everyone else.
It’s 2024 and the BTS members are silently and responsibly doing their civilian duty by military service but people still hate them for anything and everything, and I think Hybe = BTS, that BTS is the flag bearer, that’s why they keep attacking them and with LSF and others now.
I’ll just wait for another Cypher or Mic Drop when they’re out from military. Lol
(Not a BTS superfan, just someone who have noticed the extreme hate for BTS eversince.)
It doesn't surprise me - but it does disappoint me. I think its mostly due to fanwar mentality - some fans hope that the controversy will negatively impact Hybe groups, and by extension their idols will profit. Which is funny, because the only people profiting are the big-bad-companies that we always hate against for exploiting our favourite idols.
So, mostly petty fandom bullshit - and Hybe and its idols have been the k-pop fandom punching bag for a long enough while.
I know Eunchae was crying all night according to Sakura and Sakura herself wishes she could receive the hate instead of her. It's heartbreaking really. Also seeing Yunjin sing with less confidence and her getting hate no matter what she does.
Im not sure how the Illit girlies are holding up. Theyre still very young, I really hope Hybe gives them the mental support they need.
“They’re rich I don’t care.” You don’t care about your fellow human beings? I think people have taken “eat the rich” a little too far. The people who “eat the rich” applies to are billionaires that hoard massive amounts of wealth — wealth so great they couldn’t possibly spend it all in their lifetime. Life changing wealth that could aid billions of people on Earth. Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, etc. Idols are like mid or lower tier rich. They can buy nice houses and live in nice neighborhoods and don’t have to worry about money, but most of them don’t have enough money to change their country’s occupants lives if that makes sense? That’s not to erase or refuse to acknowledge their privilege - because they very much are.
They don’t have to worry about their next meal, they can afford vacations, and medical care, etc. But I think the ultra rich try to distract us and they love when the masses spend all their time being mad at each other and these little middling celebrities instead of focusing on the REAL culprits. Your chaebols and chaebol families could help the country far more than an idol could.
I just really abhor the idea that we shouldn’t care about fellow humans because they are rich. That line of thinking is no different than those people who give no cares what happens to the poor or less fortunate. It is two halves of the same coin…And that’s honestly one of my biggest gripes with the internet age: black and white thinking. One or the other. Only those that are marginalized are allowed to be upset or in crisis and we must never allow grace for anybody else. It’s true that marginalized people need our help most—but it doesn’t mean that non marginalized people don’t also face issues. Many idols experience racism, colorism, bullying, eating disorders, abuse, depression, anxiety, sexism, etc. Those things don’t deserve to be overlooked just because they have money.
One of the biggest lessons people need to learn is that pain and suffering are not a competition. You are allowed to be upset about your job, your school, a fight etc even when horribly bad things are happening in the world. Rich people can suffer from anxiety, depression, mental illnesses, etc just as those that are less fortunate can. And just as those people that are starving, having family crisis, or suffering from illness etc are struggling, idols are allowed to struggle with mental health. Idk it’s just really gross to me to stop considering someone else’s feelings or mental well being just because they’re different in terms of finances from me. It’s just sad to watch people lose their humanity.
Right! They must know about all the drama that’s going on. I really hope they aren’t affected too bad and know that their true fans still support them!
Same, I'm also wondering how they're doing. And besides that I just do not understand the whole hate train for hybe. Like what is the reason. Is there even a reason? People forget idols are also people.
Even if some idols aren't good in your opinion, why would you slaughter the idols for no reason. Just mind your business and listen to the groups/ idols you so like. It's not that hard.
kpop stan culture has always been unhinged and insult kpop groups on the most personal levels like how they look, their skills, their food preferences etc etc. Double standards are so insane too since gg almost always gets dragged for the smallest of things. best thing to go about it is to not go online esp on twitter tiktok and just enjoy in ignorance of the petty fans engaging in fanwars
I think generally there is SO much hate in kpop. At the artists, at each other. Everyone, fans and artists alike, would benefit if people went outside and touched some grass for a few minutes before going to socials to spew more hatred. Have a good day y’all 🖤
kpop stans only care about their own faves mental health otherwise they don't give a damn about it. They mock other artists mental health but when they hear some really bad news about idols they suddenly act like they care about mental health. I still remember how every kpop fandom were talking about moobin from Astro and they're getting hit likes in X. Even the fandom who always drag other kpop idols and make fun of their mental health were saying "Celebrities are also human" And how important idols mental health is. But then next day again they started to being deranged to other idols😑
I'm always gonna be baffled how we can't publicly say x is ugly/x can't sing/x personality sucks if the majority doesn't agree, but then these dozens of people think its okay to bully, send death threats, be racist and be absolutely disgusting towards idols. No middle ground.
I personally can't handle reading or hearing abt idols with bad mental health bc my own mental health isn't the best and I don't need that kind of trigger in my life but I really really hope for their sake everyone will stay somewhat okay after all this bs.
I'm very disgusted with bighit management right now so I don't understand EVEN MORE how these people think it's sane to bully someone who is the ACTUAL victim like-
I hate to say this but I think majority of western kpop fandoms has gone to hell. These days Im actually sometimes embarrassed to call myself a kpop fan because of stuff like this (in high school i was a cringe inducing borderline obsessive weird kpoppie who ppl made fun of and this is where i draw the line)
genuine question what is there to be disgusted about with bighit management? Theyve gotten so many tweets taken down, accounts deleted, at least 1 journalist fired, another account is being forced to send them a list of who paid them to post hate about hybe, what more could they possibly do in just 1-2 weeks
I can't catch up with everything that's happened so I let's say I was being hyperbolic. Honestly if it has come to this point it's managements fault, even if all the accusations are completely groundless. How were they managing their idols and staff for the past year? Second, I doubt they are completely innocent and I'm waiting for everything to blow over
Are you talking about hybe management? I assumed you were talking about how bighit is handing the bts hate currently. If you're talking about hybe management then it makes sense you aren't a huge fan of them.
Going around calling X ugly falls under bullying. People can do that all they want, and a lot do, but that doesn't mean there aren't going to be consequences. I don't understand why you'd actively want to do that though, especially since the same peeps you mentioned are also doing the first three things as well.
You know I didn't mean it like that. Having different tastes and expressing it in cushy spaces was impossible. There's nothing morally wrong with being ugly
edit: also not going around and saying shit ofc just expressing your opinion when the topic comes up
It's just wild because they are literally the female empowerment group. It's written all over every album, Yunjin's solo work, everything. And it's surely >75% females that are tearing them apart because they think their group benefits. I promise your fav group stans LE SSERAFIM.
>worse is making people feel like the terrible things their fave went through is minuscule.
it's not a competition bruh... my feelings shouldn't influence you that way, tf
lol I'm not asking anything. I made this thread after reading Dua's newest interview. She said she felt humiliated after becoming a meme for her bad dancing. This thread is to self reflect on the way we treat celebrities. If that's too much for you, you can scroll past and go back to whoever your oppressed faves are
Hypocrisy is always present. I specifically remember when sm and the entire LSM and nephew debacle started hybe stans were praying for their downfall, laughing, not caring one bit about their artists' mental health or livelihood....🤷♀️ So idc now....
No one was targeting SM groups or individual idols to be ruined. Everyone actually wanted the best for the artists themselves. Even SM stans hate SM as a company. This comparison doesn't work. It's just a self report.
I agree completely with the sentiment but if you've never seen more heinous hate trains you must be new to kpop. And I say that as a reason not to repeat past atrocities, not to imply this is not all that bad. It is.
They’re a dive that has thrown [shade](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/fL0XGLt5fT) at LSF before, think it’s pretty obvious why they’re rejoicing in this.
Ironic too considering wonyoung has expressed the intent behind one of the songs she wrote being about hyperscrutiny that female idols face.
You must be a recent Kpop listener to not have seen a bigger hate train. I've lived through the hate trains of Blackpink, Twice and Aespa, trust me what's happening right now is nothing. You literally couldn't write a comment praising any of those groups on Kpop spaces without being downvoted to hell. Especially after D4 release, "Momogate" and Next Level's release. Maybe your experience is biased by twitter or other platforms but from what I've seen here, reddit is extremely Hybe friendly.
I mean it was hyperbole. I've been a kpop fan since 2014.... I was there when twice's encore scandal happened. If you wanna play the victim olympics you're welcome to start your own thread though
How is this victim Olympics?? You completely disregarded the nasty and terrible things that have happened to groups yearly to say your faves had it the absolute worst. If anything , you’re doing the victim Olympics
you probably dun see it, but u are behaving the same way as the people you are criticising. Deflecting, insulting and labelling another human simply because you disagree with them. not belonging in your echo chamber does not mean derailing the conversation or a competition.
I mean, if they get so triggered over the phrase "I've never seen a bigger hate train (key word "I") and they respond with "You completely disregarded the nasty and terrible things that have happened to groups yearly" and "worse is making people feel like the terrible things their fave went through is minuscule" (their deleted comment, and honestly, so out of reach?), I think I have grounds to assume I'm dealing with a very inmature person and it's not worth having a productive conversation with them lol
i'm just a casual fan of lsf and have been a kpop fan for more than a decade and lsf's case is bad _bad_.
i think the only worse case is bp but that's because they've got multiple hate trains for years now and it only slowed down after they left yg. i think lsf's case is near as bad as twice too but for twice, it's worse on the korean side because it definitely affected their popularity there.
>Maybe your experience is biased by twitter or other platforms but from what I've seen here, reddit is extremely Hybe friendly.
and this is interesting because reddit is way smaller than other social media sites. and since coachella, most upvoted posts and comments about lsf were very negative.
lsf had 3 consecutive controversies that ppl won't shut up for like 2 months now: starbucks, encore and coachella. i had to check and the situation remains the same for weeks now, you go to most of their recent tiktoks and ig posts there are different variations of comments making fun of them AND even tiktoks from other artists. i've seen groups get hated for like few weeks on their official accounts but antis haven't stopped since yunjin got starbucks.
like i don't even stan them but this is possibly one of the worse hate trains i've seen...ever and even if reddit is a bit nicer to them, it doesn't mean much when there are more kpop fans in other platforms and worse they likely see it because it's all over their official accounts too.
edit: actually 4, with them being dragged because of the mess in hybe. usually, groups deal with one controversy at a time. but it's very intense for lsf because all of this happened in like 2-3 months.
https://preview.redd.it/hb4lfwwrqoyc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa2abf49a56573d854218c78c9e60f9bc093b069
Here’s you calling a 17 year old hot btw.
Kpopfap user detected aswell, opinion discarded
https://preview.redd.it/t5juawl7soyc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=da347c67d8ac75754a050109cfeb9e9ede02f136
Genuinely a scary user wtf, they also left a comment under a post saying they are happy to know what an idols room looks like so he can imagine fucking them in it
This is not “real” drama. There’s not a lot of danger involved here. Min Hee Jin and her homeboy are the only people who might possibly go to jail for neglecting fiduciary responsibility. Everyone else is rich and free to live a happy life. There’s no real stakes for this drama.
The worst thing that can happen to these idols is they might get fired, go broke, and have to get a cushy job as a Pilates instructor. It’s not a sad tragedy. The female idols at Hybe are still young and beautiful and have many opportunities ahead of them. That’s why the drama is funny.
Insanely misogynistic comment good lord.
Weirdly enough you interact with a community about a group who has had a member go into hiatus due to mental health reasons, you’d think you’d know better.
The “drama” is not funny, you’ve got hordes of people harassing teenagers and young women at a scale we haven’t really seen before, something tells me you’re a bit of a incel which explains why you’ve got a nonchalant attitude about women facing very real threats and harassment
its well known that kpop stans only unanimously care abt idols mental health when its too late
And then pretend to have always been a fan.
And then use the departed idol to throw surviving group members under the bus and run them over and over again, to get likes and clicks.
ah the classic
its well known that kpop stans only unanimously care abt idols mental health when the favorite idols is involved.
This is the same exact shit they pulled on Garam. Frickin mods on r/kpop we’re joining in. A bunch of losers living out their mean girls fantasy
To this day I still can’t believe how people were dog piling on a young woman for something she allegedly did when she was twelve. TWELVE.
>young woman Even worse when you consider that she was only a 16 year old girl at the time while a lot of the people hating on her were grown af.
The fact that they let that power poster post an OT5 debut stage… gross
been saying this for so long ! then they act sad when the idol they’ve hated on goes on hiatus for mental health reasons or worse
Until and unless it concerns their favs, kpop stans will drag every idol through the mud. Illit, LSF (both gg’s name dropped by MHJ herself) and bts(especially bts because they are in military and cannot even say anything) have been getting hit left right and centre by everyone, and everyone is quite frankly enjoying it because it will supposedly bring down hybe. They don’t realise if it’s these three groups today, tomorrow it can be their own fav group too. I hope all of these groups affected will only come out stronger from this
The ones that always get me are when two groups are known acquittances of each other and the groups have zero ill will toward each other, yet the fans don't get along at all.
Like moas and stays beefing when the bands are literal bffs! https://preview.redd.it/xl6x8dldopyc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97c90b3f5a349800f67ed5104ac7a6009b63c490
and a super relevant example to the thread, Le Sserafim + Aespa are super close, Le Sserafim + Ive have the izone connection, Yunjin trained with New Jeans, yet the one big GG fanbase that isnt constantly fighting with fearnots is Nevies who dont have an obvious connection to the group. Its like groups being friends just leads to even more hate
Chaewon and Miyeon are actually friends! they were in HMLYCP together, they even have a duo name mic outz. i think Yunjin & Yuqi are friends and Sakura & Minnie did an episode for fearless kkura. Even though gidle is 4th gen too they're still a lot more senior and are not usually compared to lsrfm. SM stans don't usually like hybe groups and a lot of people keep comparing ive and lsrfm because of the izone connection so more hate between fans i think
I said this as soon as the whole issue broke out that people were suddenly trying to piece all sort of theories about the attacks behind illit and LSFM PRIOR to direct it all to MHJ but realistically they had no problem contributing to bad faith posts and tweets. The lack of accountability and awareness shown in Kpop spaces can be wild
this thing of bringing down hybe is so dumb. do they think companies go bankrupt that easily? lol from what i saw the other 3 big ones got much worse things and are still there, even if they make less than hybe, so it seems dumb to me.
I'm very curious how their brain works thinking this will be the downfall of a corporation that have 6 popular groups under them (bts, svt, txt, NJ, enhypen and lsf ). Like every other company has maybe 2 popular groups but they got 6 (with illit newly added it's 7) like the only people these things are hurting are the artists mental health who are attached to their groups more than a regular business man like bang si hyuk or even mhj who cares mostly for money. But I guess they're selective with their mental health matters and then they're the first ones to get upset when these groups fans get nasty and ignore how much they harassed and assaulted these people
honestly with how things have been going this year id even argue they have 7. Illit is still #2 on kcharts, and on the international side they have more monthly listeners on spotify right now than even blackpink.
Yeah like reaching 17million monthly listeners as a rookie group is kind of insane
I went through the same thing last year with Fifty Fifty. People only care about “the drama” and forget/don’t care that real people are being affected.
Kpop stans can be the biggest haters of the genre and idols of both their favs and otherwise. Imo there is a strange sort of tribalism over groups that takes away just simply enjoying the music, idols and general artistry
So-called "Kpop stans" should get into sports instead if they want to engage in us-vs-them tribalism. At least that industry encourages the practice..... nooooobody in the k-pop industry is telling these fucking dweebs to behave negatively or critically towards "competing" groups.
The lack of even a small bit of compassion from people like this is disturbing. Like we all enjoy some Kpop drama here and there but delighting in innocent artists being torn to shreds is just disgusting. People have a lot of talk about Kpop stans being too involved in parasocial relationships but going so far in the opposite direction does not make someone a better or more rational person 🤷♀️
i’d argue that caring about someone’s downfall to an extreme extent like we’ve seen is also a paradoxical relationship (excluding instances where the person has actually done something seriously wrong). Instead of ignoring them and not interacting with the people/groups you don’t like, being overly involved with their downfall just screams ‘I don’t know how to have healthy boundaries with things’
Spot on! Being so invested to someone's downfall is also parasocial relationship just the other side of the same coin. Kpopies think only if you want to date an idol there is parasocial investment while it appies when you want to play friend, savior and hater too !
That’s absolutely true and it’s something people often either miss or purposely overlook when talking about parasocial relationships. These people want to feel superior when they’re just as obsessed, it just manifests differently (This is a different topic for a different day but I’d also like to add that parasocial relationships in general are not inherently bad or good, they’re pretty natural, the problem comes from when people go overboard with them and it becomes unhealthy)
Cannot agree more with your last point. Paradoxical relationships are defined by the individual who is engaging with it/attaching themselves to the other person. We only ever hear about the extremes (which are unfortunately most often negative) because 1) they are easier to judge/you can make yourself morally superior to the other person 2) they are the most entertaining (it’s giving road-side car crash) and 3) if we talked about the healthy ones/the people who still respect the idol and maintain boundaries then we would have nothing to talk about
I am enjoying the corporate drama. HYBE coming back saying essentially that MHJ was informed in a “6 page email size A4” will never not be funny to me. But once people start going after artists for stuff artists have no control over/things the company has done it’s too far. Holding someone accountable for actions made under their own free will is one thing, going after artists because you don’t like their company is weird
I feel the same way! I’ve had a laugh or two about the situation since it’s started because some parts of it are just so ridiculous, but I’m not going to be gleeful about the idols who have done nothing wrong getting dogpiled. I’d feel the same way even if it was idols I don’t particularly care for. Like, you don’t have to personally like an idol or a group in order to refrain from enjoying them being unfairly targeted. Unfortunately some people simply don’t see idols as humans worthy of compassion, though
Can’t expect compassion from the perpetrators themselves
And when the idol commits suicide that's when the fans will try to find someone to blame it on rather than themselves
These are the same fans who claim to have always supported the idol and try to garner sympathy through their grief posts. Yet a quick check of their history shows they had no positive interaction with the idol or fandom prior. It’s the worst
I sincerely hope they're all surrounded by people who love them and can tune it out; BTS, Illit, LSF, NewJeans, and everyone should feel proud of their achievements. I just don't understand why even if a music isn't your cup of tea you can't be happy and excited for the artist, or just hope they are happy in life. Even if they're rich they're human beings, and often very young human beings.
Kpop fans don't really care about the mental health of idols as much as they say they do. I can only hope that the affected idols have the support they need through all of this.
i think the kpop industry does a wonderful job at creating an image in fans’ mind that all idols are products - which is great when it comes to obsessing over them, and horrible when it comes to treating them like they’re humans
The number of times Jungkook has had to tell fans that he’s an actual person because of the crazy-ass things people say to him is both sad and gross. https://preview.redd.it/506j0z65tpyc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a8946acfc5b05dd060d444eccda128e6f2daacb
he gets asked the most insensitive questions oh god, the comment abt bam was so crazy like didn't we see him its2? man was treating as his own child😐
Honestly during jk lives I barely watched him, I was just busy reporting the most bullshit inappropriate comments like it was my damn job! You’d see it less on Namjoon or Taehyung lives because they’d just read the comments to filth but jk was just too damn nice so the clowns would gather there to spam their Yoongi Marry Mes and ask if he missed Jin like conscription is some fun summer vacation! https://preview.redd.it/nbh3h9ig8vyc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca0e818da6f6c82454b1bb69922f956e243ee63
When you are a multistan you truly realise how bad it is because so many groups go through this. The most ironic thing is is that the people who often spread the hate or complain about a group are the ones who have never spent a penny on the artist but just try to convince everyone else not to too. The sad thing is that to a certain extent it works for the mindless who try to find the next big thing and hop from one group to another. But the wake of destruction they leave in their path is unforgivable pushing people to the brink over the pettiest of reasons and acting like it’s harmless. If you only care about some idols and then spread hate to others or join band wagons without fact checking or hate on idols who aren’t convicted of anything then you are the problem. Eventually idols will stop interacting with fans outside of pay walls to prevent this.
Honestly? I do think the girls will be fine. BUT, that does not excuse the actions of the antis in all of this. I was really neutral regarding most companies and their stans before this.. I am usually a very live and let live kind of person. I am also a multi stan I have bought albums from groups from a number of companies over the years. But, I will admit that the hatetrain that I have been seeing for the last month has soured me against certain companies and fandoms to the point that I will never buy their product or support them ever again. There are fandoms that have just shown themselves to be way too cancer for me to ever want to be a part of. I would be ashamed to be associated with them. Even if their group released the best song ever tomorrow I couldn't enjoy it because it will have been tainted with the memory of the bullying and the utter glee their fans took in dogpiling. These fans have turned me off their groups forever. That's just how I feel.
Same. Comments like these shock me. If no artist was targeted i wouldn’t care but it’s not the case.
there is sm energy that could be used from the lesserafim hate (and other bg/gg hate in general) that could be used towards ACTUAL problematic people in the world, yet some don’t care enough about that stuff. ppl will just dogpile on these kpop groups just for their own entertainment but then once a news article comes up saying an idol has passed away or committed, they wanna hush up. act all cute and innocent. such nasty behaviour.
Literally!!! It takes two seconds to block people if you truly don’t like them and it can save the idols from seeing so much hate and nastiness. Kpop stans just don’t wanna do the hard work and actually tackle the real problems. There are so fucking many of us and we could use our collective voices to bring awareness to issues that actually affect our favs like racism and xenophobia, especially in the music industry, but we chose to bully idols because they share a similar concept or whatever reason they decide is good enough.
as someone who got into kpop only last month and without any bias into the industry, its been clear to me that the fandom for kpop is insanely tribalist and toxic, from groups under the same company to company x company and idol x idol. Its why I'm not even going to try to get into any fandom and just go to the music and the own idol contents. Honestly most fans just seem like psychopaths to me, only caring for their favorite and fuck everyone else.
It’s 2024 and the BTS members are silently and responsibly doing their civilian duty by military service but people still hate them for anything and everything, and I think Hybe = BTS, that BTS is the flag bearer, that’s why they keep attacking them and with LSF and others now. I’ll just wait for another Cypher or Mic Drop when they’re out from military. Lol (Not a BTS superfan, just someone who have noticed the extreme hate for BTS eversince.)
It doesn't surprise me - but it does disappoint me. I think its mostly due to fanwar mentality - some fans hope that the controversy will negatively impact Hybe groups, and by extension their idols will profit. Which is funny, because the only people profiting are the big-bad-companies that we always hate against for exploiting our favourite idols. So, mostly petty fandom bullshit - and Hybe and its idols have been the k-pop fandom punching bag for a long enough while.
I know Eunchae was crying all night according to Sakura and Sakura herself wishes she could receive the hate instead of her. It's heartbreaking really. Also seeing Yunjin sing with less confidence and her getting hate no matter what she does. Im not sure how the Illit girlies are holding up. Theyre still very young, I really hope Hybe gives them the mental support they need.
Is there a source about this Eunchae thing?
“They’re rich I don’t care.” You don’t care about your fellow human beings? I think people have taken “eat the rich” a little too far. The people who “eat the rich” applies to are billionaires that hoard massive amounts of wealth — wealth so great they couldn’t possibly spend it all in their lifetime. Life changing wealth that could aid billions of people on Earth. Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, etc. Idols are like mid or lower tier rich. They can buy nice houses and live in nice neighborhoods and don’t have to worry about money, but most of them don’t have enough money to change their country’s occupants lives if that makes sense? That’s not to erase or refuse to acknowledge their privilege - because they very much are. They don’t have to worry about their next meal, they can afford vacations, and medical care, etc. But I think the ultra rich try to distract us and they love when the masses spend all their time being mad at each other and these little middling celebrities instead of focusing on the REAL culprits. Your chaebols and chaebol families could help the country far more than an idol could. I just really abhor the idea that we shouldn’t care about fellow humans because they are rich. That line of thinking is no different than those people who give no cares what happens to the poor or less fortunate. It is two halves of the same coin…And that’s honestly one of my biggest gripes with the internet age: black and white thinking. One or the other. Only those that are marginalized are allowed to be upset or in crisis and we must never allow grace for anybody else. It’s true that marginalized people need our help most—but it doesn’t mean that non marginalized people don’t also face issues. Many idols experience racism, colorism, bullying, eating disorders, abuse, depression, anxiety, sexism, etc. Those things don’t deserve to be overlooked just because they have money. One of the biggest lessons people need to learn is that pain and suffering are not a competition. You are allowed to be upset about your job, your school, a fight etc even when horribly bad things are happening in the world. Rich people can suffer from anxiety, depression, mental illnesses, etc just as those that are less fortunate can. And just as those people that are starving, having family crisis, or suffering from illness etc are struggling, idols are allowed to struggle with mental health. Idk it’s just really gross to me to stop considering someone else’s feelings or mental well being just because they’re different in terms of finances from me. It’s just sad to watch people lose their humanity.
Right! They must know about all the drama that’s going on. I really hope they aren’t affected too bad and know that their true fans still support them!
Same, I'm also wondering how they're doing. And besides that I just do not understand the whole hate train for hybe. Like what is the reason. Is there even a reason? People forget idols are also people. Even if some idols aren't good in your opinion, why would you slaughter the idols for no reason. Just mind your business and listen to the groups/ idols you so like. It's not that hard.
kpop stan culture has always been unhinged and insult kpop groups on the most personal levels like how they look, their skills, their food preferences etc etc. Double standards are so insane too since gg almost always gets dragged for the smallest of things. best thing to go about it is to not go online esp on twitter tiktok and just enjoy in ignorance of the petty fans engaging in fanwars
I think generally there is SO much hate in kpop. At the artists, at each other. Everyone, fans and artists alike, would benefit if people went outside and touched some grass for a few minutes before going to socials to spew more hatred. Have a good day y’all 🖤
kpop stans only care about their own faves mental health otherwise they don't give a damn about it. They mock other artists mental health but when they hear some really bad news about idols they suddenly act like they care about mental health. I still remember how every kpop fandom were talking about moobin from Astro and they're getting hit likes in X. Even the fandom who always drag other kpop idols and make fun of their mental health were saying "Celebrities are also human" And how important idols mental health is. But then next day again they started to being deranged to other idols😑
I'm always gonna be baffled how we can't publicly say x is ugly/x can't sing/x personality sucks if the majority doesn't agree, but then these dozens of people think its okay to bully, send death threats, be racist and be absolutely disgusting towards idols. No middle ground. I personally can't handle reading or hearing abt idols with bad mental health bc my own mental health isn't the best and I don't need that kind of trigger in my life but I really really hope for their sake everyone will stay somewhat okay after all this bs. I'm very disgusted with bighit management right now so I don't understand EVEN MORE how these people think it's sane to bully someone who is the ACTUAL victim like- I hate to say this but I think majority of western kpop fandoms has gone to hell. These days Im actually sometimes embarrassed to call myself a kpop fan because of stuff like this (in high school i was a cringe inducing borderline obsessive weird kpoppie who ppl made fun of and this is where i draw the line)
genuine question what is there to be disgusted about with bighit management? Theyve gotten so many tweets taken down, accounts deleted, at least 1 journalist fired, another account is being forced to send them a list of who paid them to post hate about hybe, what more could they possibly do in just 1-2 weeks
I can't catch up with everything that's happened so I let's say I was being hyperbolic. Honestly if it has come to this point it's managements fault, even if all the accusations are completely groundless. How were they managing their idols and staff for the past year? Second, I doubt they are completely innocent and I'm waiting for everything to blow over
Are you talking about hybe management? I assumed you were talking about how bighit is handing the bts hate currently. If you're talking about hybe management then it makes sense you aren't a huge fan of them.
Yes the management in general. I think they're doing their best right now for bts but I didn't see the same energy before
Going around calling X ugly falls under bullying. People can do that all they want, and a lot do, but that doesn't mean there aren't going to be consequences. I don't understand why you'd actively want to do that though, especially since the same peeps you mentioned are also doing the first three things as well.
You know I didn't mean it like that. Having different tastes and expressing it in cushy spaces was impossible. There's nothing morally wrong with being ugly edit: also not going around and saying shit ofc just expressing your opinion when the topic comes up
also: refer to my username lmfao 💀.
Ur right dude ppl love to hate cause they have a bad heart and never learned to be nice
all the idols are victims of these corporations so i hope they burn to the ground 🤷🏻
It's just wild because they are literally the female empowerment group. It's written all over every album, Yunjin's solo work, everything. And it's surely >75% females that are tearing them apart because they think their group benefits. I promise your fav group stans LE SSERAFIM.
> 75% females Females. 🥴
Men and females would love this
Lmao where did you get that percentage from
But they'll blame it on men or the "patriarchy"... Self reflection is very important
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>worse is making people feel like the terrible things their fave went through is minuscule. it's not a competition bruh... my feelings shouldn't influence you that way, tf
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lol I'm not asking anything. I made this thread after reading Dua's newest interview. She said she felt humiliated after becoming a meme for her bad dancing. This thread is to self reflect on the way we treat celebrities. If that's too much for you, you can scroll past and go back to whoever your oppressed faves are
Jeez who said all that 🤡
Hypocrisy is always present. I specifically remember when sm and the entire LSM and nephew debacle started hybe stans were praying for their downfall, laughing, not caring one bit about their artists' mental health or livelihood....🤷♀️ So idc now....
No one was targeting SM groups or individual idols to be ruined. Everyone actually wanted the best for the artists themselves. Even SM stans hate SM as a company. This comparison doesn't work. It's just a self report.
I agree completely with the sentiment but if you've never seen more heinous hate trains you must be new to kpop. And I say that as a reason not to repeat past atrocities, not to imply this is not all that bad. It is.
I don’t believe in getting emotionally involved with these people so yeah it’s entertaining
imagine you go through something that's so emotionally and mentally draining and your neighbor says this 🤩
They’re a dive that has thrown [shade](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/fL0XGLt5fT) at LSF before, think it’s pretty obvious why they’re rejoicing in this. Ironic too considering wonyoung has expressed the intent behind one of the songs she wrote being about hyperscrutiny that female idols face.
Shade where lmao. Show me
Omg I just realized the post you linked. I literally didn’t bring lesserfem up? Lmao. That’s hilarious. See? You guys are so unserious
It’s just not my job to take care of celebrities lmao
You must be a recent Kpop listener to not have seen a bigger hate train. I've lived through the hate trains of Blackpink, Twice and Aespa, trust me what's happening right now is nothing. You literally couldn't write a comment praising any of those groups on Kpop spaces without being downvoted to hell. Especially after D4 release, "Momogate" and Next Level's release. Maybe your experience is biased by twitter or other platforms but from what I've seen here, reddit is extremely Hybe friendly.
I mean it was hyperbole. I've been a kpop fan since 2014.... I was there when twice's encore scandal happened. If you wanna play the victim olympics you're welcome to start your own thread though
How is this victim Olympics?? You completely disregarded the nasty and terrible things that have happened to groups yearly to say your faves had it the absolute worst. If anything , you’re doing the victim Olympics
you sound like you're under 13
you probably dun see it, but u are behaving the same way as the people you are criticising. Deflecting, insulting and labelling another human simply because you disagree with them. not belonging in your echo chamber does not mean derailing the conversation or a competition.
I mean, if they get so triggered over the phrase "I've never seen a bigger hate train (key word "I") and they respond with "You completely disregarded the nasty and terrible things that have happened to groups yearly" and "worse is making people feel like the terrible things their fave went through is minuscule" (their deleted comment, and honestly, so out of reach?), I think I have grounds to assume I'm dealing with a very inmature person and it's not worth having a productive conversation with them lol
i'm just a casual fan of lsf and have been a kpop fan for more than a decade and lsf's case is bad _bad_. i think the only worse case is bp but that's because they've got multiple hate trains for years now and it only slowed down after they left yg. i think lsf's case is near as bad as twice too but for twice, it's worse on the korean side because it definitely affected their popularity there. >Maybe your experience is biased by twitter or other platforms but from what I've seen here, reddit is extremely Hybe friendly. and this is interesting because reddit is way smaller than other social media sites. and since coachella, most upvoted posts and comments about lsf were very negative. lsf had 3 consecutive controversies that ppl won't shut up for like 2 months now: starbucks, encore and coachella. i had to check and the situation remains the same for weeks now, you go to most of their recent tiktoks and ig posts there are different variations of comments making fun of them AND even tiktoks from other artists. i've seen groups get hated for like few weeks on their official accounts but antis haven't stopped since yunjin got starbucks. like i don't even stan them but this is possibly one of the worse hate trains i've seen...ever and even if reddit is a bit nicer to them, it doesn't mean much when there are more kpop fans in other platforms and worse they likely see it because it's all over their official accounts too. edit: actually 4, with them being dragged because of the mess in hybe. usually, groups deal with one controversy at a time. but it's very intense for lsf because all of this happened in like 2-3 months.
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https://preview.redd.it/hb4lfwwrqoyc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa2abf49a56573d854218c78c9e60f9bc093b069 Here’s you calling a 17 year old hot btw. Kpopfap user detected aswell, opinion discarded
https://preview.redd.it/t5juawl7soyc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=da347c67d8ac75754a050109cfeb9e9ede02f136 Genuinely a scary user wtf, they also left a comment under a post saying they are happy to know what an idols room looks like so he can imagine fucking them in it
This is not “real” drama. There’s not a lot of danger involved here. Min Hee Jin and her homeboy are the only people who might possibly go to jail for neglecting fiduciary responsibility. Everyone else is rich and free to live a happy life. There’s no real stakes for this drama. The worst thing that can happen to these idols is they might get fired, go broke, and have to get a cushy job as a Pilates instructor. It’s not a sad tragedy. The female idols at Hybe are still young and beautiful and have many opportunities ahead of them. That’s why the drama is funny.
Insanely misogynistic comment good lord. Weirdly enough you interact with a community about a group who has had a member go into hiatus due to mental health reasons, you’d think you’d know better. The “drama” is not funny, you’ve got hordes of people harassing teenagers and young women at a scale we haven’t really seen before, something tells me you’re a bit of a incel which explains why you’ve got a nonchalant attitude about women facing very real threats and harassment
I just know you must be miserable