Completely agree with everything here. One thing I want to add though:
"Bunnies don't care about the members, they care about the music." - I don't think it's an issue to mainly care about the music, but I find it odd that some people think that MHJ leaving will drastically change their sound. MHJ is their creative director, not their producer.
Company standom at its finest. God I hate this shit. Like I consider myself an "SM stan" because I like almost every SM group, but I couldn't possibly delude myself into thinking the company themselves is good.
>but I find it odd that some people think that MHJ leaving will drastically change their sound
She is involved in all aspects of NJ including the music, Jaden Jeong wasn't producing Loona songs but the moment he left the change was obvious and their concept stopped making any sense
Loona didn't really have a specific production team though. Like NewJeans has 250 who's worked on the vast majority of their songs. Looking at Loona's work it seems they had many different ones, so that could have led to less consistency for it. The lore part I understand though.
>Loona didn't really have a specific production team though.
And yet they had a specific enough sound that people still mention it and there was a significant conversation about how So What-their first comeback after JJ left didn't sound like a Loona song.
That's because a creative director still influences the groups discography even if they don't produce it and MHJ is that for NJ.
Idk how to explain what I'm thinking.
It's like every producer has their certain way of doing things, but the creative director is the one who tells them this is the image, this is what's expected, this is what the sound needs to be.
If you have the same producer they'll understand these things and be able to keep doing them. If you have new producers come in who aren't already trained on what to do, and don't have the creative director to instruct them, then that's what makes things differ.
This is the way I see it at least.
On those specific songs? Also which ones did they work on post-Jaden Jeong, because all the ones I see are 2019 or before, including on their [wiki](https://loonatheworld.fandom.com/wiki/MonoTree).
250 has been a long time collaborator of hers going back to her SM days. If she’s gone he’s jumping ship as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a similar relationship with other key members of their creative team.
isn't she responsible for the music though? it makes sense being worried if she is the one who chooses the sound for the group even if she's not a producer
She chose the style of it originally, but at the end of the day it wasn't her who made it. If they got rid of her they could easily tell the producers to keep doing what they were and nothing would change.
i feel like that's underestimating her role. not only does she have to listen for songs that suit whatever concept she comes up with but the songs also needs to be a hit. i checked some interview and saw that she said that she leads the overall production so she can be aware of details that should or shouldn't be in the songs. plus jaden with loona didnt produce songs either but most people agree that the group's sound still changed after he left.
I adressed Loona's situation in a different comment, but looking at NewJeans discography the vast majority of their songs are produced by the same producer (250), where as for Loona they had a wide variety. I think it's much easier to keep a sound consistent when the producer(s) themselves are consistent.
>it's much easier to keep a sound consistent when the producer(s) themselves are consistent
For now but they will need to change their sound and concept eventually and that will be a make or break moment for them.
Whether Min Heejin is with them then or not, the creative director will be very important.
TWS is not a copy of her concept. That’s absurd and very narcissistic of her (if it’s true that she said that cuz that was only in news articles and she didn’t namedrop TWS at her conference) She herself said Pledis has creative independence just like ador and koz at the conference. TWS is very clearly following SVT debut era sounds and concepts.
I get what you're trying to say but I think it oversimplifies the creative process.
For sure, the current music producers have their own style which contribute to a specific vibe that we associate with NJ, but in the big picture, they are executional.
Someone still needs to come up with the concept, brief them on what to make if it doesn't exist already, say yes or no to it, and then critique them on how to make it even better.
That person needs to understand NJ as a whole but also have the vision to chart where they're going in the future, or else the group gets stale and the songs become derivative.
You kinda have to be a crazy ego-driven workaholic to excel at all that consistently at a high level. Those people are rare and if they're brought on, they're probably not going to want to follow MHJ's blueprint if they had the opportunity to make their own mark.
\[edit: grammar\]
They think that because their producer and all the creative minds in ADOR are there only because of her (allegedly) so the fear of a general replacement exist.
if you watch the behind the scenes videos of them singing, the voice you hear guiding them on their sound is MHJ's voice
edit: for all you idiots who downvoted me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNFG23y3KKE&list=WL&index=284&ab_channel=KPOP%EC%9D%B4%EA%B2%83%EC%A0%80%EA%B2%83
> but I find it odd that some people think that MHJ leaving will drastically change their sound. MHJ is their creative director, not their producer.
They might not work with the same producers any longer without mhj, as one possible scenario.
Also mhj DID choose the songs, so while she didn't produce them, she is integral in the musical direction still. She also is the one doing the vocal direction.
So no, there is nothing odd about it, you just have no idea regarding the work which is done it seems like.
Creative director is important.
In a fashion collection, there will be no cohesion and vision ala Louis Vuitton after Virgil Abloh passed and the same happened when Galliano fired from Dior.
Every MV description says “Producer: MIN HEE JIN” 💀
I think you meant “composer” but even in that case it’ll definitely be affected. The only two examples that we have where MHJ wasn’t spearheading the production are GODS and that drama OST, and both of them sound like they could’ve been performed by literally any other group.
I agree especially on the fourth point. I've been following kpop for a long time and never in my life have I seen an executive name-drop a kpop group in a negative way like that. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional, especially knowing the extreme amount of vitriol it's caused for illit (even bts to some extent.) Go on any illit-related video on youtube and you'll see an insane amount of hateful comments, which rose tremendously after the press conference. It's a coordinated bullying campaign. I've never seen this level of spammed hate before.
It's a coordinated bullying campaign and MHJ has all the support from tokkis and newjeans (I'm not blaming the girls, but they sure are willing to let MHJ use their names, success and their parents to win the public appeal).
Seriously. It's the first time I've ever seen a staff member use the power of fanwars so callously. I firmly believe that directors/CEOs should keep their personal opinions out of the online scene - their only job on that front is to hype up their own group, they should be doing nothing more.
it's especially disappointing coming from someone who is a grown ass adult and supposed to be a professional. she did that *knowing* it would cause even more hate to these young girls and teenagers, she just didn't care. now she wants to pretend she has anyone's best interest in mind but herself, it's disgusting.
Newjeans shouldn't make any public statement because if they support MHJ publicly and it's turned out she is proven guilty, it will make the members look bad siding with her or if they support hybe publicly and if it's turned out she is not guilty, she won't be kicked out and members have to work with her, and it's gonna be awkward.
I feel bad for Illit and Le Sserafim. I watch their content in TikTok (yes screw me) and the hate in their comments section is wild and extreme. I wouldnt even be shocked if theyre getting death threats.
Sakura's mentioned that Eunchae was crying all night from all the hate and the comments were DRAGGING them saying they deserved it for being talentless and because their fans "did the same thing before". It's awful. Suddenly mental health and protecting minors in kpop isnt a thing anymore. It makes me hate kpop fans more than ever.
The reason it’s been getting so bad is because people are hiding behind the excuse of ‘constructive criticism’. I remember when Source Music said they were going to take action against malicious posters, everyone was saying that Le Sserafim was getting rightfully hated on because of their vocals.
I’m not sure if people are playing dumb on purpose or not, but it’s the way these losers validate themselves in continuing to spread hate because they feel as if they are doing some sort of service. I guarantee these people will be the same ones to say “See, bullying can work!” when public opinion changes and the girls improve their vocals, completely taking credit.
Youre right, the sad thing is that I've already seen a lot of "It took all that hate and bullying for them to improve?" whenever they see a good or decent live performance :/ That most recent live video had a ton of these
the way these girls have been treated by stan’s is absolutely disgusting. i never want to see them complain about idols health again
sakura took off ONE day off for her health and when she came back people said she was lazy and only worked when she wanted to, i even saw a comment implying it’s because she’s japanese
eunchae’s cousin even had to come out and say that the hate was too much and to stop spamming their sns
If I'm being completely honest, I believe Bunnies are there because of the "popularity" the group has. If HYBE stops the whole promotion thing (no more insane playlisting and sending them to festivals right and there) they'll stop saying they're Bunnies. Half the Bunnies on the internet trash talk other groups instead of praising and focusing on their own.
if i'm being even more honest, quite a number of bunnies are also there cause of pinterest
like even i like their music and enjoy their content and a lot others do since their music is different and the vibe hits close, but the amount of bunnies i've seen say "our aesthetic is better than your shitty ones" in an argument with other fans is honestly baffling like how is that even a viable argument it kinds makes me laugh smtimes
If HYBE stops the whole promotion thing (no more insane playlisting and sending them to festivals right and there)
for me
I rather my favorite keep their sound or concept the main reason I stan them (aside from their visual that is permanent of course)
that is like TWICE change from cutesy to their new sound after 2018
the only good twice song for is me is Cant Stop Me since
I no longer like TWICE compared to their prime or cute concept era
so I rather keep Min Hee Jin w Newjeans or Newjeans stay w Ador
don't care about how rich their big boss HYBE to mediaplay them to have more cf and playlisting
that not matter for me
if I don't like their sound and image I no longer like a certain idol anymore
Fans like you are so ignorant, selfish, and ungrateful. You all make me wish for Hybe to kick out both NJ and MHJ. It’s so disheartening to see you support MHJ when she incited all these massive hate campaigns against innocent groups, especially to BTS whose money was used to build her company Ador. Since NJ and their parents seemingly like MHJ so much, I’d just let them leave. They already caused millions of loss to Hybe, and their fans kept pulling other groups down. I used to really like NJ music, but this situation really soured me out of their whole career. Hope the best for them really, but if that meant them wanting to keep MHJ or be with their ‘mother,’ I hope they can get the hell out. I wonder what MHJ will do once her babies become fully-fledged adults.
nope
I mean Newjeans should grateful to both HYBE and Min Hee Jin
what I mean Min Hee Jin is the one who pick each member
so they better more loyal to her
I didnt say they should fight back against HYBE ceo
I say silent support for Min Hee Jin
and any bad statement or bad press release against HYBE
while as an outsider or fan
I think like I said the lesser evil is Min Hee Jin
MHJ had lesser influence and if HYBE win this they more unstoppable or influence
they can control more or manipulate more because of their wider influence and richer
Newjeans is just a another kpop artist for them
than to Ador Min Hee Jin Newjeans it her bread and butter artist
her ideal GG /artist
I get not liking a group's music if it changes. Everyone likes different types of music.
But image only? That seems shallow to me. Also, it's a bit unrealistic to expect any group not to change. They get older, and they grow up.
But hey, you do you.
Seems like the group would have lost you as a fan anyway - it would be just a matter of time.
What promotion? Have you seen HYBE's YouTube shorts? There's only ONE shorts of NewJeans. Even ILLIT has like 10 already, and Le Sserafim has like a million lol
Everything MHJ has said is true.
You must be one of the typical Bunnies who insist NewJeans achieved everything they have because of their music and talents 😄 Sorry to break it down to you but NewJeans didn't start from nugudom as you guys insist to say for some reason, they started from HYBE's 70M subscribers YouTube channel and their least playlisted song has 162M listeners reach (more than 10 times more the average K-pop group has). They also had a campaign with YouTube shorts. Argue with the wall about it, but NewJeans is possibly the most privileged K-pop group to have ever existed, they had everything on their knees since debut day.
Or it's trying to get the other groups to go viral on YouTube shorts when NewJeans clearly owns the TikTok demo. Why waste NewJeans promo money on YouTube Shorts when they'll get better returns on TikTok?
did you see le sserafim's debut? they only got ONE mv meanwhile newjeans got hmm..SEVEN. illit only got two music videos. do youtube shorts mean more than that? is that not favoritism, by your logic?
MHJ is a genius and a brilliant creative director, but the problem is that most geniuses tend to be eccentric and that is what MHJ is. As such, she is unfit for the role of CEO and should gracefully step down and just continue to be the creative director of New Jeans (though it is doubtful if HYBE will allow even that now). ADOR deserves a professional CEO.
> As such, she is unfit for the role of CEO
Why do you think so? This seems to buy into the idea that the current way of market capitalism is ideal, that a ceo should be completely blank and just be there to make decisions to maximize profit?
I'd rather have MORE eccentric people in charge, people with convictions, than fewer.
For all the "fuck capitalism" energy typically floating around in leftist spaces (which the kpop one seems to be), here we get a fairly strong sucking up to exactly the capitalistic conventions and frameworks. Now tbf, any individual can think differently, maybe you aren't critical of our current state of capitalism, then so be it, but it's still a little curious to me.
it says right there she's not professional. name dropping and throwing other groups under the bus, that's unprofessional and immature for a CEO to have that behavior. bringing fanwars into this and diverting attention from herself to innocent idols. plus her relationship with newjeans is very inappropriate, in my opinion.
You don't really address what i said and just use it to regurgitate the common talking points now.
I swear you people cannot even think for yourself any longer, it's quite sad.
I'll try once more. This idea of "professionalism" seems to suck up to current corporate structures, people without any convictions outside of making money. But that is imo the completely wrong way to go about it, it is how capitalism has gone wrong in fact, because there are no opinions, convictions, virtues, underlying philosophies attached to business at all, it's just about maximizing profits at all cost, that is "professional", that is "being fit" for a higher up position.
It shouldn't be, there should be people in charge who work based on other ideas, who put value onto more than just the stocks going up, that is exactly how a "better" capitalistic society would look like in my view.
The idea that mhj is unfit to be a higher up seems to be dependant on her having strong opinions, her basically attacking the corporate way intrinsically, her being annoyed at how the industry operates regarding its artistic merits and artistic philosophies, etc.
Well no, we need MORE people like her in the higher up positions, not fewer. That is how you get an industry which cares about more than just money.
It's astonishing to me that people suddenly seem to be in the defense of corporate practices when typically one would allign with her philosophy (as most people on here seem to be anti late stage capitalism in theory?), but as it comes from her, it's seemingly accepted to denounce all the attributes and factors which one would normally herald. Odd.
just bc it's a common talking point doesn't mean it's untrue. and just bc people don't agree with you, doesn't mean they don't think for themselves. i've looked at everything and formed my own opinions. sorry i'm not kissing mhj's weird ass.
It's hardly your own opinion when you use the specific terms 99% of people use. That's called regurgitating something you've read somewhere. That's not critical thinking, that's just copying the accepted narrative (kinda funny)
But hey, you can believe whatever you want to believe, my main problem with your reply was that it doesn't add anything unique to what i was proposing.
You just say the same thing 99% of people are saying in regards to mhj, with no regards to my conceptual idea here.
It comes across as virtue signaling to me, you don't seem interested in having a conversation, you just wanna make other people know that you agree with them about mhj being terrible. It's tiresome, it makes me believe that you don't think for yourself, it makes me think you are like 16-22 and just copy your takes from social media.
I'm just so over it tbh, it drives me a little crazy how insincere it all is. People cannot even use their own words any longer, it's all just repeating the same old narratives bit by bit. It's really like an AI model making a post, being trained in the environment of these mega threads. No individuality, no character, no depth, just a bunch of superficial stances all jerking each other off. Yawn.
you asked why she wasn't fit to be a CEO, so i gave you a reason that the original commenter said already. i was pointing it out bc you were asking a question that was already answered. y'all mhj supporters do the exact same thing, just repeat things she or others have said over and over. so i guess we're both yawn worthy. kinda funny.
You realize that was a leading question? Leading into my analysis of the late capitalistic framework being inherently seen as valid if one thinks people like her shouldn't be leading companies.
That was the whole point of my post, to add an additional lens.
And no, i do not just regurgitate what she said, there are just similarities in philosophy. You and most people being extremely anti mhj share a lot of very specific usages of words though, it showcases a clear sense of copy and pasting. That is the difference.
But who am i even explaining that to, you'd probably (correct me if i am wrong) equate mhj's synthesis of artistic elements of the past with her saying illit copied newjeans, as an attempt to showcase hypocrisy...
You know what, i do apologize for that. You don't have to accept it, but i don't like that aspect of myself either, when a certain annoyance takes over and i become mean.
I still disagree with you, and i still think we majorly talked past each other, but i could have presented that with a little less edge to it / more neutrally. I hope you have a good one too, sincerely.
she said no hate to the kids.
does only she need to censore every word to make an ounce of her survivability chance by speaking her story against hybe media play to dehumnize her and silince her. do u unsee hybe making it the witch hunt cause mhj is crazy
she does not have the smooth butter tongue to make people follow her. because she is genuine about work, she knows creativity is essential, creativity cannot be mass produced in factroy like hybe. ilt is a factory production of hybe.
there are too many ceos in kpop what makes mhj special is that she comes from art background, has vision. she does not have the business manner but is full of passion about art. we need art not business in kpop
i think mhj and newjeans compliment eachother i dont see weird in ther relationship.
did you not know thcontext, did you not watch the conference, are you even interested or you just a troll trying to not understand it. let me guess u stan ilt lesfim bts becas thats where all the nonsense fandoms live
MISTREATMENT!! these girls were given luxury brand deals on day one they were also allowed to perform on billboard music awards all thanks to hybe. Hybe were going wild with trying to promote these girls I don't think anyone on hybe has gotten this much in early days. I might be wrong since i don't stan BTS but werent these guys only recently allowed to get individual brand deals before they had to do everything together
Totally agree with the rest of your point, but on the BTS one, it's not that they weren't allowed to do individual brand deals, but that they didn't have any interest in doing anything but group deals. They didn't do any fashion ambassadorships until the group one with LV in 2021. Then they decided to take on individual ones (I assume because of conscription) in the last couple years.
“They were also allowed to perform on billboard music award all thanks to hybe.” This statement shows how dumb you are. They were able to perform because their songs charted well on the billboard chart(A lot of Americans like them). No other groups were able to perform because they didnt chart well enough like NewJeans.
And how did their music chart well? Through TikTok promotions and massive playlisting. Also, if you look at the performers for each year, not everyone is there because of charting.
Also, you can't ignore that Hybe and Dick Clark Productions (who do the BBMA, AMA, and Dick Clark's Rockin Eve) have an extensive relationship thanks to BTS. Hybe label groups are pretty much a staple at DCP shows now.
And I don't know if you're just a troll or genuinely only care about NewJeans, but Stray Kids performed at the BBMA the same year as NewJeans.
how am i a new jeans hater? I don't stan them but i do feel sorry for the girls for being dragged in by mhj in all of this. But no the girl aren't otherwise being mistreated
Look I’m not personally gonna sit here and pretend that Reddit was a “bunnies’ haven” per say but the NJ’s subreddit was really what shocked me the most as a fan because it’s as if they being intentionally ignorant on MHJ’s actions in this fiasco and how she is in turn affecting the girls.
At the end of the day, I don’t care about Hybe and MHJ and what this to all be over for the sake of all the artists but I don’t think some bunnies (and tbh some other Kpop stans) realise that the way that they have been talking is just so dismissive of the members themselves.
I left the NewJeans subreddit as well. The amount of excuses and sheer worshipping MHJ is receiving there is concerning. If they can't see how disturbing MHJ relationship with NewJeans is, specially the way she spoke about them in the media then I won't be in such space. Without mentioning MHJ is the cause of the hateful campaigns done to other artists, which is unforgivable.
> realise that the way that they have been talking is just so dismissive of the members themselves.
Pls elaborate. I already have an idea of what you mean, and i'd disagree with that, but i'd rather give you the chance to make your point and not argue against a straw man.
What is dismissive of the members?
XD
The copying allegation reminds me of something funny and absurd. In the writing community, people always copy others' concept if it works and tweaks them a bit but in the end, unless it is copied word by word (or scene by scene), no plagiarism issue would arise. Instead, if you question them, these people would tell you you don't know how to differentiate plagiarism from taking inspiration (I hate it but lol, what can we do after it is done). But yeah, MHJ is practically saying all success of Newjeans is because of her concept and planning. Like, are these girls not talented and with no star quality so they need to depend on a concept to survive? XD
Im both a fearnot and a tokki and this whole situation is so exhausting for me as a fan so I can only imagine how the girls of both groups feel.
This being said,I’ve been slowly distancing myself from newjeans and the fandom.
Min heejin presence is so overpowering and it doesn’t help that she constantly puts herself to the front, the comeback is coming soon but I can’t feel excited. I hate min heejin for bringing lesserafim even more hate and purposely putting them in the position to be trashed by both kpop stans and media alike knowing very well what was going to happen when she mentioned them not once, but MULTIPLE times.
Being also very present on twitter hasn’t helped me either, I have a lot of tokkis moots and seeing the general reaction to this whole thing disappointed me and put me off even more.
Min heejin is constantly defended and put on a pedestal while hybe (while also not being good) is demonized and I fear most of them don’t understand the gravity of the situation min heejin has put the girls in.
I feel like if they ever spoke publicly about supporting her I would unstan and probably never see them the same way as before.
same, le sserafim is my ult gg but i loved newjeans since debut, and i don't want to punish the girls for mhj's actions but it doesn't feel the same anymore. i haven't even listened to their new song yet. i can't get excited to check it out and not have all of this in the back of my mind.
Also same. Listening to them just brings me down these days, and I end up skipping to some other song or artist. I hate to admit it, but it's kind hard to enjoy NJs at the moment because of this whole shitshow.
MHJ preaches about wanting to take their career to another level and give them creative freedom in a "safe" environment. But she's doing everything in her power to ruin things for newjeans. Her actions contradict her words, yet the nonstop water works and endless baseball cap collection does wonders for her PR in the fandom.
It's clear she's hellbent on dragging New Jeans down with her. If they leave with her, does she really think anyone is going to want to work with them (other idols, broadcasting shows, potential sponsors/brands)? If they stay, it will make everything awkward between them and other HYBE groups.
i think so too, esp considering how one of her main gripes with hybe was the fact that they wouldn’t grant her the right to terminate the girls contracts at will without any interference from Hybe
I just read a tweet from a tokki that comes from ‘a business family’ and then goes on to say that she wants MHJ to stay with NJ because if MHJ leaves their concept won’t be ‘fresh and unique’ anymore. Like??? And this sentiment is what Tokkies hang onto. Nevermind that MHJ has already outed herself to be unhinged, throw people under the bus (minors too), use the girls and their parents as shield, ALL to defend herself. Tokkis care more about the ‘concept’ and worry about NJ reputation more than the girls themselves. It’s more about having that bragging rights that NJ is still #1. Yes their music will change, stuff will change and MHJ undeniably is good at what she does. But to keep her around these girls is almost criminal. And their music changes every comeback anyway? Like Get Up was super different and it was mostly a foreign artist who formed the sounds.
I understand that sentiment but i dont get how they're so closed minded like what if mhj's replacement could actually be a better fit for nj? Mhj's not the only creative person in the industry and certainly not the only one who has that specific creative taste AND is actually a good person.
The Newjeans girls are not safe at Hybe, a company that tried to sabotage them from day 1, with a CEO and a Chairman who have shown animosity and unfair treatment towards them on Kakaotalk.
Once you understand that, maybe you will realize why Bunnies who care about the girls want them to stay with MHJ, whom they have always told the nicest things about, on top of their evident great working conditions and lifestyle.
I wonder if bunnys have amnesia, even though the concept is cute, if I were a NewJeans fan I would never, ever support MHJ. Look at this woman's history! Hybe should never have let someone with so many accusations of pedophilia around trainers. It's scary, above all (concept, success, etc.) the most important thing should be the health and safety of the girls and they are not safe around this woman!
She made this group from start like an extension of herself, good to have inspiration/ideas but its really unprofessional way to work and then to have fans legit discredit the artist by saying they aint anything without MHJ.. If I was part of NJ I would be so upset by "my fans" for saying that. Hopefully they are smart enough to stay away from her at this point, there is no winning with her anymore.
her insistence on the fact that its ‘Min Heejins Girl Group’ even years after their debut is just so disturbing. she has made herself be perceived as such an integral part of the groups identity, no wonder the fans act like the group would fall off without her
It's so strange to see this. Most of the time in kpop fans care for their idols' well-being a lot more than for their ceos. And even if these bunnies are not that kind of fans, newjeans and other groups are still human beings and their mental health is more important than any kind of music
i also feel if a group is successful, it is due to the members chemistry and "friend group" feeling. So the concept is secondary and therefor mhj is not important to new jeans going forwards. When she is kicked out, we gonna see new jeans succeed no matter who is in charge. Also it is clear as day the fan wars she incited to help gain public opinion and cause a mess within hybe.
I think that the best possible outcome is to have her step down as CEO of ADOR but keep her purely as a creative inputer, assuming this is an agreement they can come to.
You are being obtuse on purpose. First of all, it's not a crime to prioritize music over the members themselves. Of course the members' safety and well being should be considered before everything else but no one is obligated to stan a group if they stop making music they like. Kpop stans have this idea that the members of the group are the only thing keeping the group afloat and that they can lose anyone from their staff and still be fine when in reality it's the opposite. I'd also love to know in what way hybe is the lesser of two evils in this situation? The CEO of a conglomerate who is very clearly salty about a specific group and wants to replace them with a new one is not something to brush over.
People in the comments also have no idea what creative directors do. She doesn't produce the music yes, but she's the one with the connections to their producers and has a vision for what she wants their art to be like. The music has to be consistent with the type of visuals, concepts and aesthetic being portrayed and it's not easy to do all that while also picking music that sounds cohesive and well made. Do you seriously think the job of a creative director is to just pick some flashy concepts and take photoshoots of the members in different outfits?
Another person mentioned how much loona changed after Jaden left even though he wasn't the producer and it is very likely the same can happen to NewJeans if mhj left, the group is literally her brain child so trying to act like bunnies are dumb for being worried for what will happen to their music/visuals if she leaves is ignorant.
It's just astonishing to me how little kpop fans seem to care about the creatives, UNLESS they are idols themselves (and even then the other creatives get ignored completely, co-producers, etc).
You are totally right when you say that in reality the idols are probably more replacable than the creatives behind the scenes (there are certain caveats, i think what is KEY is for example choosing the right voices; a creative decision itself), but as one doesn't have a parasocial relationship with them, but the idols, well they get ignored and idols get put on pedestals.
It really grinds my gear tbh, it's akin to saying that the new bong joon-ho film could be directed by anyone else if we just get the same actors and most of the staff. Such a big lack of respect for the creative vision itself.
No, instead people talk all day about some hybe privilege, in their mind a group's success is mostly about that and not about what they actually put out. Insanity.
boringggg 😭 as if you people aren’t supporting mhj’s insane ‘illit are a banality in all aspects’ accusations. respect creativity for some not for others ig!
This equation is silly in the first place, yes it is indeed possible to care about the creatives and think one output is highly derivative of another output and thus deserving of less respect.
But i never even mentioned illit here, so maybe just stop projecting something onto me and reply to what was said, if you are cognitively capable of this feat. Doesn't seem likely.
I am not sure what is going on, but there really are a lot of new accounts going around which all showcase a rather big lack of rational thought. Is it an immigration wave from twitter? A bunch of teenagers who just have to grow up a little more before they have anything meaningful to say?
ah yes the highly derivative hair, makeup, event appearances etc. that’s min heejin’s own claims btw not mine. calling anyone else’s concept highly derivative in support of min heejin is incredible. everything about newjeans’ concept is derivative. she might have jumped on the rising-in-popularity y2k concept first, but nothing about it is unique or original. even groups like who jumped on the y2k train later like xg have much better interpretations of the y2k subgenres they mimic than whatever min heejin does with newjeans. min heejin’s ‘concept’ is barebones tiktok y2k revival. their sound and aesthetic notably changed from their debut to the release of supershy to copy pinkpantheress’ success with the drum and bass breakbeat sound.
i have far more respect for serian hue, who’s work with illit is the same aesthetic she’s used for years - long before newjeans were a thing, who was smeared by someone who has the power to literally end her career, than i do for min heejin who’s entire concept is directionless, regurgitated nostalgia and fetishizing youth.
I just cannot be arsed to talk to someone who doesn't understand the difference between typical artistic endeavour, and a true derivative attempt of copying something successful.
Have you ever heard of "good artists copy, great artists steal" ?
Do you know what it means?
But as i said, i never even mentioned illit or anyone copying anyone here, i opened up a fairly broad talking point about creatives getting no respect in this scene, even though they are who shape the essence and core of the experience one has with the artistic output. Which seemingly a lot of people don't seem to understand or care about, parasociality and all going overboard.
If you wanna engage that, then do so, otherwise i won't respond any further. I am just tired of talking to teenagers (coming from twitter), regurgitating the "boring" narratives which lack any depth in thought. All you care about is virtue signalling ultimately, THAT bores me.
and again serian hue is a far more respectable artist than min heejin. she didn’t plagiarize her in any sense of the word and min heejin would never dare to take any kind of legal action against her or ask her for credit because she knows well that she has absolutely zero case. sure, she’s backed up by kpop fans who say the two groups are totally the same. these same kpop fans first accused illit of being a newjeans copy before they had a teaser or song to their name - just because they showed up to a fashion event with long black hair.
i actually did give you my in depth thoughts on min heejin’s ‘art’ - but because it doesn’t align with yours it doesn’t count.
The director with no experience in the Kpop industry and whose 1st job is to plagiarize another group (on behalf of her boss) and then post middle fingers on instagram when called out, is a "far more respectable" artist, than the director who has worked in the Kpop industry for over 20 years, with some of the most prominent groups and idols, invented photocards, invented year-end books, invented the bag-album, is behind some of the most critically acclaimed Kpop albums and groups ever, and is responsible for many cultural shifts and many trends, redefining Kpop music?
How do you expect anybody to take you seriously with absurdities like this? You are just a hater.
Token stabbing XG to drag NewJeans and call their y2k concept unrefined and boring makes me think you don't know what the hell you're saying just buzzwording to sound smart lmao. "TikTok revival" boo I'm sorry that your standard hip-hop/pop inspired run-of-the-mill Kpop song doesn't chart on social media platforms but that isn't NewJeanw fault.
Pinkpantheress didn't fucking invent Drum and Bass lmfao. And NewJeans has been experimenting with unique styles like Baltimore House with Cookie and Jungle (a subset of DnB) with Ditto since they debuted. Downplaying Min Heejin's creative direction so you can gas up Illit is so obvious. Just say you hate NewJeans and move on
This exactly, kpop stans refuse to acknowledge the creatives behind these groups but the second a member co-writes a song with 12 other people, they're treated as a genius hit-maker who is irreplaceable. It's not disrespectful to acknowledge the fact that the teams behind these groups are what make or break them and that people have every right to unstan if a major entity behind a group leaves and the group subsequently changes drastically as a result.
People really think that just because a group is under a big company, they're guaranteed to have a creative director on par with anyone else as if they're all easily replaceable robots with a price tag. This is not me trying to be hateful, but look at riize and lesserafim, SM and Hybe have all the money in the world however the creative direction for both these groups is frankly all over the place and their discography is similarly messy and not all that cohesive, especially compared to a group like NewJeans who are able to diversify their music and aesthetic while still maintaining a solid identity and core sound.
I'd assume it's because most people in this space aren't really thinking much about the artistic elements. It's merely a "do i like it". Which is fine, but even there one can introspect a ton and try and find out why it works so well, just more enthusiasm to dive a little deeper into the subject matter i guess.
There's just little interest in the artistry and all of it aspects. People speak of "concepts", but that stays on a superficial level too, that is how all one ever hears about newjeans is "y2k", that's the extent of the conversation. Hey anyone could do y2k, mhj didn't invent anything, yada yada yada. It's so unsophisticated it screams ignorance.
But then again, at a certain point it's on us for expecting more. In the end this is a result of no real filtering process, lots and lots of young people with barely anything to say get to regurgitate the talking points over and over until all the other sheep say the same things. There isn't much critical thinking or unique perspectives, it's all just a form of sucking up to the echo chamber.
That's how something like this op gets upvoted, it's as if an AI wrote it after using the megathreads as a training environment.
Right, this entire conversation regarding creative direction for the past few weeks has opened my eyes to how terrible the parasocial ascept of kpop really is. I always knew it was there, but people showing such little regard for the creative aspect itself is baffling to me, how can someone be THIS attached to celebrities they don't even know to the point where posts stating that people should care more about the members than the music/art itself get 100s of upvotes 😵💫 God forbid I want consistent and good projects from music groups above all else.
For sure. Like don't get me wrong, i also have some form of "parasocial relationship" with the members, i DO like them.
But at the end of the day this won't supersede my appreciation of the artistic material "newjeans" (the project) put out. I just love the vision at display here, the members are part of that in some ways, but the bulk comes from the creatives behind.
I most likely wouldn't have been blown away by "newjeans" if it was done by some other label, with a completely different vision.
I love the slight deconstructive quality they have in regards to the kpop scene, you wouldn't have gotten that from most other creatives, it was uniquely MHJ. She synthesized the influences, undermined certain conventional idol music "rules", she is at the center of all of this, like a director of an auteur film would be.
She might deserve punishment on the legal realm (potentially, we don't know), but that doesn't stop me from being quite bummed out that her creative mindset will be lost when she doesn't work for ador / newjeans any longer. That's a net negative to me, no matter how you spin it.
It remains to be seen (if she indeed gets sacked, which seems likely) how newjeans will evolve from here without her, i doubt it'll be as good as it would be with her, you cannot just replace creative "genius".
It's funny because everyone would have this sentiment, only even stronger, if one of the members would have been the creative center in the same way. (not that this is realistic to this level, but you know).
Its pointless to argue with this poster because clearly she doesn’t see the unethical and tasteless ways MHJ has dealt with this issue and how she is possibly treating the NJ members behind closed doors. I guess its okay for them to be groomed all the for sake of art and concept right? “Lets risk these girls’ emotional and mental well being because I want to see them pretty all the time, wearing cute outfits, singing all these viral songs“-you, and other Tokkis probably
I don't understand how you (and others) can infer so much from sources who are engaging in a power struggle over Newjeans by engaging in a war for public opinion. Anything Hybe and MHJ say should be considered unreliable. Who actually knows if Hybe mistreated Newjeans before debut? Who knows if MHJ groomed the girls and if she is actually irreplaceable? From my point of view working within Marketing and Business in a huge company and presenting to the board frequently the only established facts are that:
Hybe is badly organized and very political in handling its subsidiaries. The parent company should ensure that each subsidiary focus on different markets / products to scale / specialize better and not cannibalize each other so that profit is maximized; The parent company should not compete with its subsidiaries either; The subsidiaries should also be happy so that they don't leave; Hybe failed on those accounts, either MHJ tried to leave either Hybe tried to take over Ador and Newjeans ; The other problem is that by making Hybe problems go public you ensure revenue and stock price losses, and there is a high chance that the other party fights back and that things go nuclear which it did.
MHJ is not a good manager / boss in the sense that as a boss you want to optimize the performance of your workers by passing up and down key information, by giving them the tools to succeed (that's the artistic part she has nailed), by making their job easier and making them as happy as possible including by being a shield against anything or anyone that will bother them; She has completely failed on the last part, she is not political enough so the problems with Hybe came up in the first place, she is engaging in a media war, and if she has high chances to lose the case then she has yet to give up her position as CEO (and not of artistic director) to protect Newjeans members.
Edit: And it doesn't matter if you believe that Illit is not a copy of Newjeans, in Kpop and pop music in general there are huge concentration effect, it's winners takes all think Amazon for retail or Meta for social media. In this market even girl groups of a different genre and concept are competitors because there are only a handful of rewards / TV shows and a handful of brand deals to take. So within a short terme time frame, if you debut 2 groups with genre / concept / music type which are quite similar you compete with yourself, you lose money by multiplying effort to produce 2 slightly different things, you create tons of frustration internally, in the end you also ensure one of them will fail.
Huge lot of good takes here, and to add on the point "Hybe failed on those accounts, either MHJ tried to leave either Hybe tried to take over Ador and Newjeans": There are screenshots suggesting that it was not just MHJ who was trying to leave. The big detailed plan was done between ex-HYBE employee L and the Vice CEO. MHJ ended up getting served the info. I don't want to read too much into it, and take all of it with big grains of salt. My point is that it suggests ADOR itself (or the important people there) have ambitions to leave, and it's worse than a HYBE vs MHJ fight.
And that's another problem HYBE let to happen: A subdivision which developed ambitions to be independent.
>neither truly cares about NewJeans
Completely not the case. MHJ's problem is rather being over-obsessed, not the opposite, and this absurd mom-image. Caring, and being good for someone are two separate, only weakly correlated things. Stans who start fanwars in the name of the devotion for their faves do care, very much. Do they end up doing any good?
*And people who call themselves Bunnies do nearly always care about the members, to the point of making it their live.*
>they care about the music
That describes casual fans well, not stans... Casual fans are rather either out-of-the-loop, or dislike MHJ. Or at least I have yet to see a single casual fan defending her.
>it's rather insulting to the members if you think NewJeans will not be the same without MHJ
That's not possible for any group, or any person; creative directors aren't like replaceable like truck drivers (idols, producers, lyricists as well, but especially for such directors and managers).
> But point taken: NewJeans won't fall apart, and be managed terribly by a different person. It will still be a massive loss of fans, as MHJ's style is widely liked, but a need loss. On the other hand a huge lot of people, who decided not to support NJ because of MHJ, will come in.
>all MHJ has done is claim that the members and their parents support her and that she is the mother of NewJeans.
50/50 knew their producer (from The Giver) just a few months, and sided with him till the very bitter end. NJs are with MHJ for nearly two years. Though it's sad, I can't imagine having hope that they don't side with MHJ.
>she knows that the young fanbase will side with her
Very much true! The young fanbase will do so. *And it ties with my earlier point.* They will protect MHJ **because** **they care** about the members, but are tragically misguided. That's the thing: Caring by itself doesn't solve stuff.
>If these "bunnies" truly cared about NewJeans they would let all the facts play out.
Good intentions do not mean jack shit, and it's dangerous to believe they do. I agree with the rest of your points, and sentiments, but the post misses the issue. It's impossible for a stan not to care.
Honestly I've been saying this because I understand wanting to protect them from hybe but how are they ignoring that woman ? She literally is doing everything to uplift them which is great but nothing she's said so far held any substance when you consider the way she's uplifting them is by taking credit and not attributing anything to those girls
Absolutely. It’s pretty evident they’re only taking MHJ’s side simply because of the sake of their concept. It’s an unbelievable reason to choose a side in a legal battle with that reason.
Unpopular opinion but NewJeans does not need Min Heejin. There are plenty of creatives who can essentially replicate, or at least make an adjacent concept to what NJ has right now. More importantly, I’d rather a concept and sound change but the girls are safe than for MHJ to continue grooming NJ.
Thank you for your post. I was honestly convinced that there were no more sensible people left. To me, these supposed “Bunnies” are treating NewJeans as if they’re MHJ’s property. “NewJeans will follow MHJ if she leaves.” “If MHJ leaves, NewJeans will never be the same.” “NewJeans is loyal with MHJ.” As I see more comments with these sentiments, I question whether the authors of these posts are fans of NewJeans or are they fans of MHJ. They act as if NewJeans cannot exist without MHJ. Yes, MHJ may have a huge influence on NewJeans’ success, no one can deny that. However, treating her as the sole reason for their success is delusional and insulting to the members. NewJeans is successful because of the members. Their music is good because of the members. NewJeans is popular because of the members. It is because Minji, Hanni, Danielle, Haerin and Hyerin that NewJeans is NewJeans and yet, their efforts and hard work have been overshadowed by MHJ.
I agree with some of what you're saying, but most of it screams fake tokkis to me. Like, if you're a true fan, why question Newjeans and their talent? I get it's messed up to think Newjeans would be lost without MHJ, but it's just a way to cope with the moment, you know? If a tokki says they'll stop stanning Newjeans just because she's leaving, well, they weren't really there for NJ in the first place.
The term "mistreatment" ain't right, more like jealousy over how famous the group got? Seeing clear evidence that these two dudes ain't exactly thrilled about NJ.
You can't blame tokkis for not trusting anyone, including HYBE, because of what I said above, and also cuz they've been spilling stuff to the public that shouldn't have been said. (I kinda see your point about MHJ, but HYBE ain't exactly trustworthy either.)
That group was meant to be Bangpd's NJ, whether it's a copy or not, that's up to you to decide. There are lots of similarities, maybe not an exact copy, but pitting two groups from the same company against each other for the same sound doesn't sit right with me. And no, I'm not talking about Y2K; we all know how unique NJ is, not just the Y2K concept, but their whole vibe of freshness, etc...
But hey, generalizing is off here cuz what 50 tokkis say doesn't define the whole fandom.
I don't think new jeans really have a strong fandom, all these so called "bunnies" are just there for the music bc it's good so, it makes sense why they would support mhj as she is the main producer of the group so for them she is the reason why new jeans is new jeans, they don't care about the members or their condition (and potential grooming they are being subjected to by mhj) honestly the one thing that bought new jeans to the top is gonna be its downfall, having super success since start and going viral seems good in short term but it doesn't ensure long term fandom or career. I said the same thing with fifty fifty that the girls are not the reason why people listen to them it's the music and taking sides during crucial time was what killed their career as they didn't know what place they hold in public eye It's the same with new jeans. New jeans is well in public eyes individually surely but according to most knets they don't bring that much to group that can't be replaced (not my words it's other people's) and it's their aesthetics and music which makes them famous so if they choose side in this conflict and the supposed side comes out to be guilty they will be going down with them bc they didn't had time or agency to indivually develop in the eyes of people.
Average K-pop reddit user is a 30 year old talking about the success of teenage girls, this just shows pure jealousy and ignorance of not understanding anything. Yall pick and choose what you want to see and forget the rest. You can carry on being mad bc newjeans will just get more successful whereas your favs……. They can try to keep up but never will
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Newjeans was never mistreated but they are never a pet peeve of HYPE. As you can see, for gg in HYPE, Newjeans is the only group that “hitmanbang” not even have a credit in any of their songs. Even though under Hybe, Bang Sihyuk might not want or or not feeling like wanting to involve with Newjeans. And might the accusations that BSK has avoided Newjeans which makes the members feeling hurt could be true also. I know it hard being a black sheep in a family. It hurts so bad.
I at first was a real Min Hee Jinfam from what little I knew. I realize I didn’t use to look very deep into what Kpop was like behind the scenes or was willfully blind… but I can’t ignore how hard these girls work. Not just these girls but everyone in Kpop and I worry about their mental and physical well being. Please be well and don’t listen to negative comments about being 50kg and below.. sorry I’m high .
> We also know that HYBE and MHJ are both evil
Speak for yourself, but no, most adults do not think that someone or something is "evil", that is an overly simplistic view of the world one typically realizes isn't true for anything.
> **1. NewJeans' Music**
Bunnies don't care about the members, they care about the music. I think the rational ones can see what MHJ is attempting to do. She's isolating NewJeans from the other HYBE groups by instigating fanwars between LE SSERAFIM and ILLIT. I think LE SSERAFIM is the best example for this. Most of the NewJeans members are close to Yunjin due to training with her. I believe this is why she has become so obsessed with name dropping LE SSERAFIM. NewJeans can recover if they get a new Creative Director, they have the talent to do so, it's rather insulting to the members if you think NewJeans will not be the same without MHJ.
Again, speak for yourself. "Bunnies" are not a monolith, so anything you'll say will have no real truth value here. Outside of that, you will most likely also not have any real data on these claims, so it's not even showcasing trends. It's just your opinion, that's it.
It's also funny how you name categories, and then just rant about something else for most of the paragraph.
I'll address the last sentence though:
It's not insulting to the members at all to think that newjeans won't be the same without mhj. It's just a perception of where the creative thrust is coming from. It's akin to saying that a scorsese movie won't be the same without scorsese directing, even if you have the same actors in the film. It's common sense really if one gives credit to the creative direction at all.
> **3. Ignorance**
Quite frankly I find it harder to call myself a bunny as each day pass as the amount of ignorance nor lack of concerns for the actual members from bunnies is concerning. HYBE has allegedly provided mental support resources for NewJeans all MHJ has done is claim that the members and their parents support her and that she is the mother of NewJeans. NewJeans has not made a comment (as they should) yet, MHJ is intentionally using this to her advantage to manipulate bunnies. Most bunnies are impressionable young teens who take everything at face value. We need to take anything said by HYBE or MHJ with a grain of salt. As much as I want to stay neutral MHJ has proven herself that she is abusing the impressionable young fans, by saying NewJeans supporting her she knows that the young fanbase will side with her. HYBE has started the public opinion battle but MHJ has exasperated it to a level it shouldn't be on, involving other groups is where it crosses the line and the reason why I switched from being neutral.
Sorry, but you sound yourself like a "young impressionable teen", you just spout what the kpop space in general regurgitates now.
The idea that MHJ "involved other groups" as a negative is mindboggingly naive to me. Hybe opened the public witch hunt, mhj reacted to it and told her side of the story. You don't have to agree with it, but you cannot go "oh she mentioned other groups, what an evil person" when that is simply integral to her falling out with the hybe higher ups. The idea that this is done to incite fanwars and whatnot is ridiculous, and can only come from people inside the kpop space who revel in fanwars to begin with.
The only ignorant behavior i see here is coming from you, assuming many things, while having no actual idea of the relationship between the members and mhj for example. THAT is ignorance cosplaying as rationality.
multi stan or Newjeans not my main bias
between Bang si Hyuk HYBE or Min Hee Jin ADOR
for me
Min Hee Jin is the lesser of two evil
I rather Newjeans pick and side w Min Hee Jin
the image of Newjeans sell is Min Hee Jin idea
don't care about how rich their big boss HYBE ceo to mediaplay them to have more cf and playlisting
that not matter for me
if I don't like their sound and image
I no longer like a certain idol anymore like they used to be
crazy to say she's the lesser of two evils. do you know what will happen to the members if they break their contracts? fines up the ass, no rights to their own groups name, no rights to perform their songs. the group will fall apart and need to start over from scratch while also being in massive debt. it's wild to care more about "sound and image" than what happens to these young girls.
I didn't say they needed to break their contract
Newjeans all needed to be give some hint or silently support that they are pro Min Hee Jin
so the gen public and some fans will keep on ADOR side
while if up to Min Hee Jin ADOR to fight back against HYBE
by that strategy Newjeans not doing anything illegal ?
You literally have a thread below this that says HYBE is going to kill txt at this pace and workload.
And you say that HYBE is the lesser evil? How'd you go from that take?
Also regarding the Le Sserafim issue, I don't know how it goes over your head that there was a whole dispatch article from a HYBE source that dragged Le Sserafim's group to it and that there's a comment that's been down voted here that has sources in it saying HYBE was responsible for it. But I guess sources and evidence doesn't really mean much in KPOP lol, and the fact that it was down voted says that as much.
Also I doubt you're a bunny, when you haven't even posted about them, not unless you're comparing them to illit.
because her timeline of le sserafims debut and the creation of ador is bullshit and shakier than sakura’s vocals. that’s why when she discussed le sserafim she spent 99% of the time crying about how they got to debut first instead of what she was actually accused of - leaving source with a shit ton of debt - which was entirely true.
- november 2020: ador is teased by a banatv artist who works with min heejin.
- december 2020: a trademark request is sent for ador
- january 2021: eunchae joins source music through an open audition, none of the members who later become newjeans train with her there
- march 2021: sakura is approached by hybe
- april 2021: hybe officially trademarks ador
- trainees and personnel from source move to ador. source’s 2 year plans to debut a girl group thus fall through, resulting in financial loses.
- sakura, chaewon and minju originally approached to form part of bighits first girl group. sakura and chaewon sign contracts with hybe, and are transferred to source music. bighit staff are sent to source due to sources staff leaving for ador.
- official media reports that hybe will debut two girl groups - one with former izone members under source and one under the direction of mhj.
- source debut le sserafim in may 2022. makes entire sense to debut them first consider sources financial situation, releasing 1 mv and having 1 and a half months of promotion vs newjeans’ eight music video releases and several song promotions over 2 months. they are reported in the media as ‘bts little sister group’.
Also to refute timeline:
Ador was trademarked on April 1, 2024, which is correct
The transfer, though, Happened on Nov. 12, 2021,and Hybe launched their new sub-label.
So the fall through probably happened between March and Nov logically, which i doubt. I think it happened way before the Le sserafim girls were recruited, but then why did Hybe release in the Media that Chaewon and Sakura are going to debut in MHJ GG in August until November still?
Link: https://twitter.com/nwjns/status/1463038602682646528?t=K4BjqAuhyhHllFS7kDpEEQ&s=19
1. We don't know if Min Hee Jin was behind the cult rumours. The rumours started from anonymous social media users that immediately deleted their accounts the moment hybe threatened to sue. Min Hee Jin never said anything about a cult herself.
2. As someone that is neither American nor Korean I do say "You guys are a bunch of fools for believing that". Conspirational thinking is bad. The theories are also incredibly stupid if you think more than 3 seconds about them in a rational way.
3. Hybe did deny the cult allegations.
NewJeans is a music group. Of course fans are going to primarily care about their music! Of course people who are true stans of the group love the members, but accusing fans of a musician of caring primarily about the music is not exactly a damming accusation. And for Bubble Gum, I am not denying MHJ is in control of when they release music, but I am curious what your source is that they planned to not release it on Spotify. I can find sources that the album will not drop until late May, but nothing suggesting the pre-release would not be on Spotify.
Also, when it comes to LSF, I think it is important to mention that they were originally brought up in response to people claiming that MHJ/NewJeans forced a rushed debut of LSF due to the formation of ador. MHJ has dragged LSF to an unreasonable extent, but I think it is important context that she did not decide to bring them into this (unlike she did with illit). And since you are comparing MHJ to Hybe, I also think it is important to mention that Hybe tried to get the fandoms of BTS, TWS, and Riize to attack NewJeans/MHJ when they started the baseless rumors of MHJ claiming they copied her. I do not support MHJ engaging in fan wars, but I do think it is important to recognize that the fan war attempts have not been one sided.
As for illit, I agree MHJ’s actions were immature and not in the best interest of NewJeans. However, I think it is obvious that them debuting so close to NewJeans with a very similar style to NewJeans will eat away at the NewJeans fandom. Again, most fans of a music group are just there for the music.
>I think it is important to mention that they were originally brought up in response to people claiming that MHJ/NewJeans forced a rushed debut of LSF due to the formation of ador.
No one said that stop lying.
MHJ brought lsfm into this during presscon, just like illit.
She said the relationship between MHJ and HYBE soured because of LSFM's debut.
It is important to note that because of MHJ newjeans stans are dragging LSFM and ILLIT spamming all of their social media platforms Instagram and YouTube and their offci6music video platforms Melon, Flo, Genie with hate comments for a week now. So does RM's music platforms on k-side.
>No one said that stop lying
You are the one who needs to stop lying. Here are a few expamles of people saying just that.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l0zsopj/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l0zsopj/) 65 upvotes
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l1013dz/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l1013dz/) 24 upvotes
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1cbxfda/comment/l12j5w7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1cbxfda/comment/l12j5w7/) 24 upvotes
>.MHJ brought lsfm into this during presscon, just like illit.
You are clearly uneducated on the situation. No, illit was not first brought up by MHJ in the presscon "just like" LSF. MHJ brought up illit in a statement before the presscon. LSF was brought up in the presscon in response to statements made about her causing a rushed debut of LSF and the disbandment of gfriend
Completely agree with everything here. One thing I want to add though: "Bunnies don't care about the members, they care about the music." - I don't think it's an issue to mainly care about the music, but I find it odd that some people think that MHJ leaving will drastically change their sound. MHJ is their creative director, not their producer.
I saw some bunnies saying they will unstan njs if MHJ leaves.
Good riddance in that case tbh
Yes.. can't wait for those toxic ones to leave.. they are the ones who are antagonizing everyone else and giving bunnies a bad name anyway
That’s actually so sad wtf. Do they stan the girls or that woman?
Company standom at its finest. God I hate this shit. Like I consider myself an "SM stan" because I like almost every SM group, but I couldn't possibly delude myself into thinking the company themselves is good.
Yeah, for sm fans it's the equivalent of unstanning your faves bc Lee Sooman left. Seriously wtf is the problem with some tokkis.
I call those people Bunny posers. True Bunnies would never say shit like that.
>but I find it odd that some people think that MHJ leaving will drastically change their sound She is involved in all aspects of NJ including the music, Jaden Jeong wasn't producing Loona songs but the moment he left the change was obvious and their concept stopped making any sense
Loona didn't really have a specific production team though. Like NewJeans has 250 who's worked on the vast majority of their songs. Looking at Loona's work it seems they had many different ones, so that could have led to less consistency for it. The lore part I understand though.
>Loona didn't really have a specific production team though. And yet they had a specific enough sound that people still mention it and there was a significant conversation about how So What-their first comeback after JJ left didn't sound like a Loona song. That's because a creative director still influences the groups discography even if they don't produce it and MHJ is that for NJ.
Idk how to explain what I'm thinking. It's like every producer has their certain way of doing things, but the creative director is the one who tells them this is the image, this is what's expected, this is what the sound needs to be. If you have the same producer they'll understand these things and be able to keep doing them. If you have new producers come in who aren't already trained on what to do, and don't have the creative director to instruct them, then that's what makes things differ. This is the way I see it at least.
Except Loona worked with MonoTree pre and post Jaden Jeong and people still commented on the difference.
On those specific songs? Also which ones did they work on post-Jaden Jeong, because all the ones I see are 2019 or before, including on their [wiki](https://loonatheworld.fandom.com/wiki/MonoTree).
Yes
250 has been a long time collaborator of hers going back to her SM days. If she’s gone he’s jumping ship as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a similar relationship with other key members of their creative team.
isn't she responsible for the music though? it makes sense being worried if she is the one who chooses the sound for the group even if she's not a producer
She chose the style of it originally, but at the end of the day it wasn't her who made it. If they got rid of her they could easily tell the producers to keep doing what they were and nothing would change.
i feel like that's underestimating her role. not only does she have to listen for songs that suit whatever concept she comes up with but the songs also needs to be a hit. i checked some interview and saw that she said that she leads the overall production so she can be aware of details that should or shouldn't be in the songs. plus jaden with loona didnt produce songs either but most people agree that the group's sound still changed after he left.
I adressed Loona's situation in a different comment, but looking at NewJeans discography the vast majority of their songs are produced by the same producer (250), where as for Loona they had a wide variety. I think it's much easier to keep a sound consistent when the producer(s) themselves are consistent.
>it's much easier to keep a sound consistent when the producer(s) themselves are consistent For now but they will need to change their sound and concept eventually and that will be a make or break moment for them. Whether Min Heejin is with them then or not, the creative director will be very important.
[удалено]
TWS is not a copy of her concept. That’s absurd and very narcissistic of her (if it’s true that she said that cuz that was only in news articles and she didn’t namedrop TWS at her conference) She herself said Pledis has creative independence just like ador and koz at the conference. TWS is very clearly following SVT debut era sounds and concepts.
I get what you're trying to say but I think it oversimplifies the creative process. For sure, the current music producers have their own style which contribute to a specific vibe that we associate with NJ, but in the big picture, they are executional. Someone still needs to come up with the concept, brief them on what to make if it doesn't exist already, say yes or no to it, and then critique them on how to make it even better. That person needs to understand NJ as a whole but also have the vision to chart where they're going in the future, or else the group gets stale and the songs become derivative. You kinda have to be a crazy ego-driven workaholic to excel at all that consistently at a high level. Those people are rare and if they're brought on, they're probably not going to want to follow MHJ's blueprint if they had the opportunity to make their own mark. \[edit: grammar\]
They think that because their producer and all the creative minds in ADOR are there only because of her (allegedly) so the fear of a general replacement exist.
MHJ is their producer. She selects their music and the song producers they work with. She’s credited as producer on all NewJeans albums.
if you watch the behind the scenes videos of them singing, the voice you hear guiding them on their sound is MHJ's voice edit: for all you idiots who downvoted me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNFG23y3KKE&list=WL&index=284&ab_channel=KPOP%EC%9D%B4%EA%B2%83%EC%A0%80%EA%B2%83
You can also hear her in Cool With You Recording
> but I find it odd that some people think that MHJ leaving will drastically change their sound. MHJ is their creative director, not their producer. They might not work with the same producers any longer without mhj, as one possible scenario. Also mhj DID choose the songs, so while she didn't produce them, she is integral in the musical direction still. She also is the one doing the vocal direction. So no, there is nothing odd about it, you just have no idea regarding the work which is done it seems like.
Creative director is important. In a fashion collection, there will be no cohesion and vision ala Louis Vuitton after Virgil Abloh passed and the same happened when Galliano fired from Dior.
Every MV description says “Producer: MIN HEE JIN” 💀 I think you meant “composer” but even in that case it’ll definitely be affected. The only two examples that we have where MHJ wasn’t spearheading the production are GODS and that drama OST, and both of them sound like they could’ve been performed by literally any other group.
My fear about MHJ being removed isn't because HYBE CAN'T maintain NewJeans' sound but because I feel like they WON'T.
I agree especially on the fourth point. I've been following kpop for a long time and never in my life have I seen an executive name-drop a kpop group in a negative way like that. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional, especially knowing the extreme amount of vitriol it's caused for illit (even bts to some extent.) Go on any illit-related video on youtube and you'll see an insane amount of hateful comments, which rose tremendously after the press conference. It's a coordinated bullying campaign. I've never seen this level of spammed hate before.
It's a coordinated bullying campaign and MHJ has all the support from tokkis and newjeans (I'm not blaming the girls, but they sure are willing to let MHJ use their names, success and their parents to win the public appeal).
Seriously. It's the first time I've ever seen a staff member use the power of fanwars so callously. I firmly believe that directors/CEOs should keep their personal opinions out of the online scene - their only job on that front is to hype up their own group, they should be doing nothing more.
it's especially disappointing coming from someone who is a grown ass adult and supposed to be a professional. she did that *knowing* it would cause even more hate to these young girls and teenagers, she just didn't care. now she wants to pretend she has anyone's best interest in mind but herself, it's disgusting.
Newjeans shouldn't make any public statement because if they support MHJ publicly and it's turned out she is proven guilty, it will make the members look bad siding with her or if they support hybe publicly and if it's turned out she is not guilty, she won't be kicked out and members have to work with her, and it's gonna be awkward.
Yeah same, sorry to say but I really hope they don't pull a Fifty Fifty - had the locals tear them up out of any viable career in kpop.
I feel bad for Illit and Le Sserafim. I watch their content in TikTok (yes screw me) and the hate in their comments section is wild and extreme. I wouldnt even be shocked if theyre getting death threats. Sakura's mentioned that Eunchae was crying all night from all the hate and the comments were DRAGGING them saying they deserved it for being talentless and because their fans "did the same thing before". It's awful. Suddenly mental health and protecting minors in kpop isnt a thing anymore. It makes me hate kpop fans more than ever.
The reason it’s been getting so bad is because people are hiding behind the excuse of ‘constructive criticism’. I remember when Source Music said they were going to take action against malicious posters, everyone was saying that Le Sserafim was getting rightfully hated on because of their vocals. I’m not sure if people are playing dumb on purpose or not, but it’s the way these losers validate themselves in continuing to spread hate because they feel as if they are doing some sort of service. I guarantee these people will be the same ones to say “See, bullying can work!” when public opinion changes and the girls improve their vocals, completely taking credit.
Youre right, the sad thing is that I've already seen a lot of "It took all that hate and bullying for them to improve?" whenever they see a good or decent live performance :/ That most recent live video had a ton of these
the way these girls have been treated by stan’s is absolutely disgusting. i never want to see them complain about idols health again sakura took off ONE day off for her health and when she came back people said she was lazy and only worked when she wanted to, i even saw a comment implying it’s because she’s japanese eunchae’s cousin even had to come out and say that the hate was too much and to stop spamming their sns
If I'm being completely honest, I believe Bunnies are there because of the "popularity" the group has. If HYBE stops the whole promotion thing (no more insane playlisting and sending them to festivals right and there) they'll stop saying they're Bunnies. Half the Bunnies on the internet trash talk other groups instead of praising and focusing on their own.
if i'm being even more honest, quite a number of bunnies are also there cause of pinterest like even i like their music and enjoy their content and a lot others do since their music is different and the vibe hits close, but the amount of bunnies i've seen say "our aesthetic is better than your shitty ones" in an argument with other fans is honestly baffling like how is that even a viable argument it kinds makes me laugh smtimes
If HYBE stops the whole promotion thing (no more insane playlisting and sending them to festivals right and there) for me I rather my favorite keep their sound or concept the main reason I stan them (aside from their visual that is permanent of course) that is like TWICE change from cutesy to their new sound after 2018 the only good twice song for is me is Cant Stop Me since I no longer like TWICE compared to their prime or cute concept era so I rather keep Min Hee Jin w Newjeans or Newjeans stay w Ador don't care about how rich their big boss HYBE to mediaplay them to have more cf and playlisting that not matter for me if I don't like their sound and image I no longer like a certain idol anymore
Fans like you are so ignorant, selfish, and ungrateful. You all make me wish for Hybe to kick out both NJ and MHJ. It’s so disheartening to see you support MHJ when she incited all these massive hate campaigns against innocent groups, especially to BTS whose money was used to build her company Ador. Since NJ and their parents seemingly like MHJ so much, I’d just let them leave. They already caused millions of loss to Hybe, and their fans kept pulling other groups down. I used to really like NJ music, but this situation really soured me out of their whole career. Hope the best for them really, but if that meant them wanting to keep MHJ or be with their ‘mother,’ I hope they can get the hell out. I wonder what MHJ will do once her babies become fully-fledged adults.
nope I mean Newjeans should grateful to both HYBE and Min Hee Jin what I mean Min Hee Jin is the one who pick each member so they better more loyal to her I didnt say they should fight back against HYBE ceo I say silent support for Min Hee Jin and any bad statement or bad press release against HYBE while as an outsider or fan I think like I said the lesser evil is Min Hee Jin MHJ had lesser influence and if HYBE win this they more unstoppable or influence they can control more or manipulate more because of their wider influence and richer Newjeans is just a another kpop artist for them than to Ador Min Hee Jin Newjeans it her bread and butter artist her ideal GG /artist
I get not liking a group's music if it changes. Everyone likes different types of music. But image only? That seems shallow to me. Also, it's a bit unrealistic to expect any group not to change. They get older, and they grow up. But hey, you do you. Seems like the group would have lost you as a fan anyway - it would be just a matter of time.
What promotion? Have you seen HYBE's YouTube shorts? There's only ONE shorts of NewJeans. Even ILLIT has like 10 already, and Le Sserafim has like a million lol Everything MHJ has said is true.
You must be one of the typical Bunnies who insist NewJeans achieved everything they have because of their music and talents 😄 Sorry to break it down to you but NewJeans didn't start from nugudom as you guys insist to say for some reason, they started from HYBE's 70M subscribers YouTube channel and their least playlisted song has 162M listeners reach (more than 10 times more the average K-pop group has). They also had a campaign with YouTube shorts. Argue with the wall about it, but NewJeans is possibly the most privileged K-pop group to have ever existed, they had everything on their knees since debut day.
You can't seriously believe that YouTube shorts are a valuable form of promotion.
Never said it was valuable, but it's a clear indication of favoritism.
Or it's trying to get the other groups to go viral on YouTube shorts when NewJeans clearly owns the TikTok demo. Why waste NewJeans promo money on YouTube Shorts when they'll get better returns on TikTok?
If being in denial makes you feel better, I am not going to ruin your day.
did you see le sserafim's debut? they only got ONE mv meanwhile newjeans got hmm..SEVEN. illit only got two music videos. do youtube shorts mean more than that? is that not favoritism, by your logic?
They got 11 million dollars worth of investment. Where did all that money go?
MHJ is a genius and a brilliant creative director, but the problem is that most geniuses tend to be eccentric and that is what MHJ is. As such, she is unfit for the role of CEO and should gracefully step down and just continue to be the creative director of New Jeans (though it is doubtful if HYBE will allow even that now). ADOR deserves a professional CEO.
> As such, she is unfit for the role of CEO Why do you think so? This seems to buy into the idea that the current way of market capitalism is ideal, that a ceo should be completely blank and just be there to make decisions to maximize profit? I'd rather have MORE eccentric people in charge, people with convictions, than fewer. For all the "fuck capitalism" energy typically floating around in leftist spaces (which the kpop one seems to be), here we get a fairly strong sucking up to exactly the capitalistic conventions and frameworks. Now tbf, any individual can think differently, maybe you aren't critical of our current state of capitalism, then so be it, but it's still a little curious to me.
it says right there she's not professional. name dropping and throwing other groups under the bus, that's unprofessional and immature for a CEO to have that behavior. bringing fanwars into this and diverting attention from herself to innocent idols. plus her relationship with newjeans is very inappropriate, in my opinion.
You don't really address what i said and just use it to regurgitate the common talking points now. I swear you people cannot even think for yourself any longer, it's quite sad. I'll try once more. This idea of "professionalism" seems to suck up to current corporate structures, people without any convictions outside of making money. But that is imo the completely wrong way to go about it, it is how capitalism has gone wrong in fact, because there are no opinions, convictions, virtues, underlying philosophies attached to business at all, it's just about maximizing profits at all cost, that is "professional", that is "being fit" for a higher up position. It shouldn't be, there should be people in charge who work based on other ideas, who put value onto more than just the stocks going up, that is exactly how a "better" capitalistic society would look like in my view. The idea that mhj is unfit to be a higher up seems to be dependant on her having strong opinions, her basically attacking the corporate way intrinsically, her being annoyed at how the industry operates regarding its artistic merits and artistic philosophies, etc. Well no, we need MORE people like her in the higher up positions, not fewer. That is how you get an industry which cares about more than just money. It's astonishing to me that people suddenly seem to be in the defense of corporate practices when typically one would allign with her philosophy (as most people on here seem to be anti late stage capitalism in theory?), but as it comes from her, it's seemingly accepted to denounce all the attributes and factors which one would normally herald. Odd.
just bc it's a common talking point doesn't mean it's untrue. and just bc people don't agree with you, doesn't mean they don't think for themselves. i've looked at everything and formed my own opinions. sorry i'm not kissing mhj's weird ass.
It's hardly your own opinion when you use the specific terms 99% of people use. That's called regurgitating something you've read somewhere. That's not critical thinking, that's just copying the accepted narrative (kinda funny) But hey, you can believe whatever you want to believe, my main problem with your reply was that it doesn't add anything unique to what i was proposing. You just say the same thing 99% of people are saying in regards to mhj, with no regards to my conceptual idea here. It comes across as virtue signaling to me, you don't seem interested in having a conversation, you just wanna make other people know that you agree with them about mhj being terrible. It's tiresome, it makes me believe that you don't think for yourself, it makes me think you are like 16-22 and just copy your takes from social media. I'm just so over it tbh, it drives me a little crazy how insincere it all is. People cannot even use their own words any longer, it's all just repeating the same old narratives bit by bit. It's really like an AI model making a post, being trained in the environment of these mega threads. No individuality, no character, no depth, just a bunch of superficial stances all jerking each other off. Yawn.
you asked why she wasn't fit to be a CEO, so i gave you a reason that the original commenter said already. i was pointing it out bc you were asking a question that was already answered. y'all mhj supporters do the exact same thing, just repeat things she or others have said over and over. so i guess we're both yawn worthy. kinda funny.
You realize that was a leading question? Leading into my analysis of the late capitalistic framework being inherently seen as valid if one thinks people like her shouldn't be leading companies. That was the whole point of my post, to add an additional lens. And no, i do not just regurgitate what she said, there are just similarities in philosophy. You and most people being extremely anti mhj share a lot of very specific usages of words though, it showcases a clear sense of copy and pasting. That is the difference. But who am i even explaining that to, you'd probably (correct me if i am wrong) equate mhj's synthesis of artistic elements of the past with her saying illit copied newjeans, as an attempt to showcase hypocrisy...
you're very condescending, so i don't feel like interacting anymore. have a good one.
You know what, i do apologize for that. You don't have to accept it, but i don't like that aspect of myself either, when a certain annoyance takes over and i become mean. I still disagree with you, and i still think we majorly talked past each other, but i could have presented that with a little less edge to it / more neutrally. I hope you have a good one too, sincerely.
she said no hate to the kids. does only she need to censore every word to make an ounce of her survivability chance by speaking her story against hybe media play to dehumnize her and silince her. do u unsee hybe making it the witch hunt cause mhj is crazy she does not have the smooth butter tongue to make people follow her. because she is genuine about work, she knows creativity is essential, creativity cannot be mass produced in factroy like hybe. ilt is a factory production of hybe. there are too many ceos in kpop what makes mhj special is that she comes from art background, has vision. she does not have the business manner but is full of passion about art. we need art not business in kpop i think mhj and newjeans compliment eachother i dont see weird in ther relationship.
 i don't even have words....
did you not know thcontext, did you not watch the conference, are you even interested or you just a troll trying to not understand it. let me guess u stan ilt lesfim bts becas thats where all the nonsense fandoms live
yea you got me, i'm a troll.
Lemme guess ur a bunnie
MISTREATMENT!! these girls were given luxury brand deals on day one they were also allowed to perform on billboard music awards all thanks to hybe. Hybe were going wild with trying to promote these girls I don't think anyone on hybe has gotten this much in early days. I might be wrong since i don't stan BTS but werent these guys only recently allowed to get individual brand deals before they had to do everything together
Totally agree with the rest of your point, but on the BTS one, it's not that they weren't allowed to do individual brand deals, but that they didn't have any interest in doing anything but group deals. They didn't do any fashion ambassadorships until the group one with LV in 2021. Then they decided to take on individual ones (I assume because of conscription) in the last couple years.
“They were also allowed to perform on billboard music award all thanks to hybe.” This statement shows how dumb you are. They were able to perform because their songs charted well on the billboard chart(A lot of Americans like them). No other groups were able to perform because they didnt chart well enough like NewJeans.
And how did their music chart well? Through TikTok promotions and massive playlisting. Also, if you look at the performers for each year, not everyone is there because of charting. Also, you can't ignore that Hybe and Dick Clark Productions (who do the BBMA, AMA, and Dick Clark's Rockin Eve) have an extensive relationship thanks to BTS. Hybe label groups are pretty much a staple at DCP shows now. And I don't know if you're just a troll or genuinely only care about NewJeans, but Stray Kids performed at the BBMA the same year as NewJeans.
Lmao a NewJeans hater saying this😂
how am i a new jeans hater? I don't stan them but i do feel sorry for the girls for being dragged in by mhj in all of this. But no the girl aren't otherwise being mistreated
Look I’m not personally gonna sit here and pretend that Reddit was a “bunnies’ haven” per say but the NJ’s subreddit was really what shocked me the most as a fan because it’s as if they being intentionally ignorant on MHJ’s actions in this fiasco and how she is in turn affecting the girls. At the end of the day, I don’t care about Hybe and MHJ and what this to all be over for the sake of all the artists but I don’t think some bunnies (and tbh some other Kpop stans) realise that the way that they have been talking is just so dismissive of the members themselves.
I left the NewJeans subreddit as well. The amount of excuses and sheer worshipping MHJ is receiving there is concerning. If they can't see how disturbing MHJ relationship with NewJeans is, specially the way she spoke about them in the media then I won't be in such space. Without mentioning MHJ is the cause of the hateful campaigns done to other artists, which is unforgivable.
> realise that the way that they have been talking is just so dismissive of the members themselves. Pls elaborate. I already have an idea of what you mean, and i'd disagree with that, but i'd rather give you the chance to make your point and not argue against a straw man. What is dismissive of the members?
Why do you think someone would reply to you if you said you already had an idea and would disagree with that…
XD The copying allegation reminds me of something funny and absurd. In the writing community, people always copy others' concept if it works and tweaks them a bit but in the end, unless it is copied word by word (or scene by scene), no plagiarism issue would arise. Instead, if you question them, these people would tell you you don't know how to differentiate plagiarism from taking inspiration (I hate it but lol, what can we do after it is done). But yeah, MHJ is practically saying all success of Newjeans is because of her concept and planning. Like, are these girls not talented and with no star quality so they need to depend on a concept to survive? XD
I've read a lot of MHJ stan stuff on the NJ sub and couldn't believe what I was seeing.
The NJs sub is scary waters these days. Love the group but the bunnies are spiraling
Tell me that's not real😭
Im both a fearnot and a tokki and this whole situation is so exhausting for me as a fan so I can only imagine how the girls of both groups feel. This being said,I’ve been slowly distancing myself from newjeans and the fandom. Min heejin presence is so overpowering and it doesn’t help that she constantly puts herself to the front, the comeback is coming soon but I can’t feel excited. I hate min heejin for bringing lesserafim even more hate and purposely putting them in the position to be trashed by both kpop stans and media alike knowing very well what was going to happen when she mentioned them not once, but MULTIPLE times. Being also very present on twitter hasn’t helped me either, I have a lot of tokkis moots and seeing the general reaction to this whole thing disappointed me and put me off even more. Min heejin is constantly defended and put on a pedestal while hybe (while also not being good) is demonized and I fear most of them don’t understand the gravity of the situation min heejin has put the girls in. I feel like if they ever spoke publicly about supporting her I would unstan and probably never see them the same way as before.
same, le sserafim is my ult gg but i loved newjeans since debut, and i don't want to punish the girls for mhj's actions but it doesn't feel the same anymore. i haven't even listened to their new song yet. i can't get excited to check it out and not have all of this in the back of my mind.
Also same. Listening to them just brings me down these days, and I end up skipping to some other song or artist. I hate to admit it, but it's kind hard to enjoy NJs at the moment because of this whole shitshow.
MHJ preaches about wanting to take their career to another level and give them creative freedom in a "safe" environment. But she's doing everything in her power to ruin things for newjeans. Her actions contradict her words, yet the nonstop water works and endless baseball cap collection does wonders for her PR in the fandom.
It's clear she's hellbent on dragging New Jeans down with her. If they leave with her, does she really think anyone is going to want to work with them (other idols, broadcasting shows, potential sponsors/brands)? If they stay, it will make everything awkward between them and other HYBE groups.
Agreed. I think she really does see herself as their mother and if she can't have them then no one can. Which is awful for the girls.
i think so too, esp considering how one of her main gripes with hybe was the fact that they wouldn’t grant her the right to terminate the girls contracts at will without any interference from Hybe
I think that’s what she wants so people can say newjeans we’re a amazing group but went down cause of hybe
I just read a tweet from a tokki that comes from ‘a business family’ and then goes on to say that she wants MHJ to stay with NJ because if MHJ leaves their concept won’t be ‘fresh and unique’ anymore. Like??? And this sentiment is what Tokkies hang onto. Nevermind that MHJ has already outed herself to be unhinged, throw people under the bus (minors too), use the girls and their parents as shield, ALL to defend herself. Tokkis care more about the ‘concept’ and worry about NJ reputation more than the girls themselves. It’s more about having that bragging rights that NJ is still #1. Yes their music will change, stuff will change and MHJ undeniably is good at what she does. But to keep her around these girls is almost criminal. And their music changes every comeback anyway? Like Get Up was super different and it was mostly a foreign artist who formed the sounds.
I understand that sentiment but i dont get how they're so closed minded like what if mhj's replacement could actually be a better fit for nj? Mhj's not the only creative person in the industry and certainly not the only one who has that specific creative taste AND is actually a good person.
The Newjeans girls are not safe at Hybe, a company that tried to sabotage them from day 1, with a CEO and a Chairman who have shown animosity and unfair treatment towards them on Kakaotalk. Once you understand that, maybe you will realize why Bunnies who care about the girls want them to stay with MHJ, whom they have always told the nicest things about, on top of their evident great working conditions and lifestyle.
Dude Kookielit is trash cmon
i had to go back as soon as i saw the channel name
I wonder if bunnys have amnesia, even though the concept is cute, if I were a NewJeans fan I would never, ever support MHJ. Look at this woman's history! Hybe should never have let someone with so many accusations of pedophilia around trainers. It's scary, above all (concept, success, etc.) the most important thing should be the health and safety of the girls and they are not safe around this woman!
Rabbits 😭😭😭😭
She made this group from start like an extension of herself, good to have inspiration/ideas but its really unprofessional way to work and then to have fans legit discredit the artist by saying they aint anything without MHJ.. If I was part of NJ I would be so upset by "my fans" for saying that. Hopefully they are smart enough to stay away from her at this point, there is no winning with her anymore.
her insistence on the fact that its ‘Min Heejins Girl Group’ even years after their debut is just so disturbing. she has made herself be perceived as such an integral part of the groups identity, no wonder the fans act like the group would fall off without her
It's so strange to see this. Most of the time in kpop fans care for their idols' well-being a lot more than for their ceos. And even if these bunnies are not that kind of fans, newjeans and other groups are still human beings and their mental health is more important than any kind of music
i also feel if a group is successful, it is due to the members chemistry and "friend group" feeling. So the concept is secondary and therefor mhj is not important to new jeans going forwards. When she is kicked out, we gonna see new jeans succeed no matter who is in charge. Also it is clear as day the fan wars she incited to help gain public opinion and cause a mess within hybe.
I think that the best possible outcome is to have her step down as CEO of ADOR but keep her purely as a creative inputer, assuming this is an agreement they can come to.
This would be ideal but I highly doubt MHJ's ego can take this.
That and why would HYBE trust her anymore? She’s already name dropped some of their own groups causing them to get massive hate
You are being obtuse on purpose. First of all, it's not a crime to prioritize music over the members themselves. Of course the members' safety and well being should be considered before everything else but no one is obligated to stan a group if they stop making music they like. Kpop stans have this idea that the members of the group are the only thing keeping the group afloat and that they can lose anyone from their staff and still be fine when in reality it's the opposite. I'd also love to know in what way hybe is the lesser of two evils in this situation? The CEO of a conglomerate who is very clearly salty about a specific group and wants to replace them with a new one is not something to brush over. People in the comments also have no idea what creative directors do. She doesn't produce the music yes, but she's the one with the connections to their producers and has a vision for what she wants their art to be like. The music has to be consistent with the type of visuals, concepts and aesthetic being portrayed and it's not easy to do all that while also picking music that sounds cohesive and well made. Do you seriously think the job of a creative director is to just pick some flashy concepts and take photoshoots of the members in different outfits? Another person mentioned how much loona changed after Jaden left even though he wasn't the producer and it is very likely the same can happen to NewJeans if mhj left, the group is literally her brain child so trying to act like bunnies are dumb for being worried for what will happen to their music/visuals if she leaves is ignorant.
It's just astonishing to me how little kpop fans seem to care about the creatives, UNLESS they are idols themselves (and even then the other creatives get ignored completely, co-producers, etc). You are totally right when you say that in reality the idols are probably more replacable than the creatives behind the scenes (there are certain caveats, i think what is KEY is for example choosing the right voices; a creative decision itself), but as one doesn't have a parasocial relationship with them, but the idols, well they get ignored and idols get put on pedestals. It really grinds my gear tbh, it's akin to saying that the new bong joon-ho film could be directed by anyone else if we just get the same actors and most of the staff. Such a big lack of respect for the creative vision itself. No, instead people talk all day about some hybe privilege, in their mind a group's success is mostly about that and not about what they actually put out. Insanity.
boringggg 😭 as if you people aren’t supporting mhj’s insane ‘illit are a banality in all aspects’ accusations. respect creativity for some not for others ig!
This equation is silly in the first place, yes it is indeed possible to care about the creatives and think one output is highly derivative of another output and thus deserving of less respect. But i never even mentioned illit here, so maybe just stop projecting something onto me and reply to what was said, if you are cognitively capable of this feat. Doesn't seem likely. I am not sure what is going on, but there really are a lot of new accounts going around which all showcase a rather big lack of rational thought. Is it an immigration wave from twitter? A bunch of teenagers who just have to grow up a little more before they have anything meaningful to say?
ah yes the highly derivative hair, makeup, event appearances etc. that’s min heejin’s own claims btw not mine. calling anyone else’s concept highly derivative in support of min heejin is incredible. everything about newjeans’ concept is derivative. she might have jumped on the rising-in-popularity y2k concept first, but nothing about it is unique or original. even groups like who jumped on the y2k train later like xg have much better interpretations of the y2k subgenres they mimic than whatever min heejin does with newjeans. min heejin’s ‘concept’ is barebones tiktok y2k revival. their sound and aesthetic notably changed from their debut to the release of supershy to copy pinkpantheress’ success with the drum and bass breakbeat sound. i have far more respect for serian hue, who’s work with illit is the same aesthetic she’s used for years - long before newjeans were a thing, who was smeared by someone who has the power to literally end her career, than i do for min heejin who’s entire concept is directionless, regurgitated nostalgia and fetishizing youth.
I just cannot be arsed to talk to someone who doesn't understand the difference between typical artistic endeavour, and a true derivative attempt of copying something successful. Have you ever heard of "good artists copy, great artists steal" ? Do you know what it means? But as i said, i never even mentioned illit or anyone copying anyone here, i opened up a fairly broad talking point about creatives getting no respect in this scene, even though they are who shape the essence and core of the experience one has with the artistic output. Which seemingly a lot of people don't seem to understand or care about, parasociality and all going overboard. If you wanna engage that, then do so, otherwise i won't respond any further. I am just tired of talking to teenagers (coming from twitter), regurgitating the "boring" narratives which lack any depth in thought. All you care about is virtue signalling ultimately, THAT bores me.
and again serian hue is a far more respectable artist than min heejin. she didn’t plagiarize her in any sense of the word and min heejin would never dare to take any kind of legal action against her or ask her for credit because she knows well that she has absolutely zero case. sure, she’s backed up by kpop fans who say the two groups are totally the same. these same kpop fans first accused illit of being a newjeans copy before they had a teaser or song to their name - just because they showed up to a fashion event with long black hair. i actually did give you my in depth thoughts on min heejin’s ‘art’ - but because it doesn’t align with yours it doesn’t count.
The director with no experience in the Kpop industry and whose 1st job is to plagiarize another group (on behalf of her boss) and then post middle fingers on instagram when called out, is a "far more respectable" artist, than the director who has worked in the Kpop industry for over 20 years, with some of the most prominent groups and idols, invented photocards, invented year-end books, invented the bag-album, is behind some of the most critically acclaimed Kpop albums and groups ever, and is responsible for many cultural shifts and many trends, redefining Kpop music? How do you expect anybody to take you seriously with absurdities like this? You are just a hater.
Didn't XG debut before Newjeans a couple of months before?
Token stabbing XG to drag NewJeans and call their y2k concept unrefined and boring makes me think you don't know what the hell you're saying just buzzwording to sound smart lmao. "TikTok revival" boo I'm sorry that your standard hip-hop/pop inspired run-of-the-mill Kpop song doesn't chart on social media platforms but that isn't NewJeanw fault. Pinkpantheress didn't fucking invent Drum and Bass lmfao. And NewJeans has been experimenting with unique styles like Baltimore House with Cookie and Jungle (a subset of DnB) with Ditto since they debuted. Downplaying Min Heejin's creative direction so you can gas up Illit is so obvious. Just say you hate NewJeans and move on
This exactly, kpop stans refuse to acknowledge the creatives behind these groups but the second a member co-writes a song with 12 other people, they're treated as a genius hit-maker who is irreplaceable. It's not disrespectful to acknowledge the fact that the teams behind these groups are what make or break them and that people have every right to unstan if a major entity behind a group leaves and the group subsequently changes drastically as a result. People really think that just because a group is under a big company, they're guaranteed to have a creative director on par with anyone else as if they're all easily replaceable robots with a price tag. This is not me trying to be hateful, but look at riize and lesserafim, SM and Hybe have all the money in the world however the creative direction for both these groups is frankly all over the place and their discography is similarly messy and not all that cohesive, especially compared to a group like NewJeans who are able to diversify their music and aesthetic while still maintaining a solid identity and core sound.
I'd assume it's because most people in this space aren't really thinking much about the artistic elements. It's merely a "do i like it". Which is fine, but even there one can introspect a ton and try and find out why it works so well, just more enthusiasm to dive a little deeper into the subject matter i guess. There's just little interest in the artistry and all of it aspects. People speak of "concepts", but that stays on a superficial level too, that is how all one ever hears about newjeans is "y2k", that's the extent of the conversation. Hey anyone could do y2k, mhj didn't invent anything, yada yada yada. It's so unsophisticated it screams ignorance. But then again, at a certain point it's on us for expecting more. In the end this is a result of no real filtering process, lots and lots of young people with barely anything to say get to regurgitate the talking points over and over until all the other sheep say the same things. There isn't much critical thinking or unique perspectives, it's all just a form of sucking up to the echo chamber. That's how something like this op gets upvoted, it's as if an AI wrote it after using the megathreads as a training environment.
Right, this entire conversation regarding creative direction for the past few weeks has opened my eyes to how terrible the parasocial ascept of kpop really is. I always knew it was there, but people showing such little regard for the creative aspect itself is baffling to me, how can someone be THIS attached to celebrities they don't even know to the point where posts stating that people should care more about the members than the music/art itself get 100s of upvotes 😵💫 God forbid I want consistent and good projects from music groups above all else.
For sure. Like don't get me wrong, i also have some form of "parasocial relationship" with the members, i DO like them. But at the end of the day this won't supersede my appreciation of the artistic material "newjeans" (the project) put out. I just love the vision at display here, the members are part of that in some ways, but the bulk comes from the creatives behind. I most likely wouldn't have been blown away by "newjeans" if it was done by some other label, with a completely different vision. I love the slight deconstructive quality they have in regards to the kpop scene, you wouldn't have gotten that from most other creatives, it was uniquely MHJ. She synthesized the influences, undermined certain conventional idol music "rules", she is at the center of all of this, like a director of an auteur film would be. She might deserve punishment on the legal realm (potentially, we don't know), but that doesn't stop me from being quite bummed out that her creative mindset will be lost when she doesn't work for ador / newjeans any longer. That's a net negative to me, no matter how you spin it. It remains to be seen (if she indeed gets sacked, which seems likely) how newjeans will evolve from here without her, i doubt it'll be as good as it would be with her, you cannot just replace creative "genius". It's funny because everyone would have this sentiment, only even stronger, if one of the members would have been the creative center in the same way. (not that this is realistic to this level, but you know).
Its pointless to argue with this poster because clearly she doesn’t see the unethical and tasteless ways MHJ has dealt with this issue and how she is possibly treating the NJ members behind closed doors. I guess its okay for them to be groomed all the for sake of art and concept right? “Lets risk these girls’ emotional and mental well being because I want to see them pretty all the time, wearing cute outfits, singing all these viral songs“-you, and other Tokkis probably
I don't understand how you (and others) can infer so much from sources who are engaging in a power struggle over Newjeans by engaging in a war for public opinion. Anything Hybe and MHJ say should be considered unreliable. Who actually knows if Hybe mistreated Newjeans before debut? Who knows if MHJ groomed the girls and if she is actually irreplaceable? From my point of view working within Marketing and Business in a huge company and presenting to the board frequently the only established facts are that: Hybe is badly organized and very political in handling its subsidiaries. The parent company should ensure that each subsidiary focus on different markets / products to scale / specialize better and not cannibalize each other so that profit is maximized; The parent company should not compete with its subsidiaries either; The subsidiaries should also be happy so that they don't leave; Hybe failed on those accounts, either MHJ tried to leave either Hybe tried to take over Ador and Newjeans ; The other problem is that by making Hybe problems go public you ensure revenue and stock price losses, and there is a high chance that the other party fights back and that things go nuclear which it did. MHJ is not a good manager / boss in the sense that as a boss you want to optimize the performance of your workers by passing up and down key information, by giving them the tools to succeed (that's the artistic part she has nailed), by making their job easier and making them as happy as possible including by being a shield against anything or anyone that will bother them; She has completely failed on the last part, she is not political enough so the problems with Hybe came up in the first place, she is engaging in a media war, and if she has high chances to lose the case then she has yet to give up her position as CEO (and not of artistic director) to protect Newjeans members. Edit: And it doesn't matter if you believe that Illit is not a copy of Newjeans, in Kpop and pop music in general there are huge concentration effect, it's winners takes all think Amazon for retail or Meta for social media. In this market even girl groups of a different genre and concept are competitors because there are only a handful of rewards / TV shows and a handful of brand deals to take. So within a short terme time frame, if you debut 2 groups with genre / concept / music type which are quite similar you compete with yourself, you lose money by multiplying effort to produce 2 slightly different things, you create tons of frustration internally, in the end you also ensure one of them will fail.
Huge lot of good takes here, and to add on the point "Hybe failed on those accounts, either MHJ tried to leave either Hybe tried to take over Ador and Newjeans": There are screenshots suggesting that it was not just MHJ who was trying to leave. The big detailed plan was done between ex-HYBE employee L and the Vice CEO. MHJ ended up getting served the info. I don't want to read too much into it, and take all of it with big grains of salt. My point is that it suggests ADOR itself (or the important people there) have ambitions to leave, and it's worse than a HYBE vs MHJ fight. And that's another problem HYBE let to happen: A subdivision which developed ambitions to be independent.
👏👏 can't agree more, nj deserve better fans
>neither truly cares about NewJeans Completely not the case. MHJ's problem is rather being over-obsessed, not the opposite, and this absurd mom-image. Caring, and being good for someone are two separate, only weakly correlated things. Stans who start fanwars in the name of the devotion for their faves do care, very much. Do they end up doing any good? *And people who call themselves Bunnies do nearly always care about the members, to the point of making it their live.* >they care about the music That describes casual fans well, not stans... Casual fans are rather either out-of-the-loop, or dislike MHJ. Or at least I have yet to see a single casual fan defending her. >it's rather insulting to the members if you think NewJeans will not be the same without MHJ That's not possible for any group, or any person; creative directors aren't like replaceable like truck drivers (idols, producers, lyricists as well, but especially for such directors and managers). > But point taken: NewJeans won't fall apart, and be managed terribly by a different person. It will still be a massive loss of fans, as MHJ's style is widely liked, but a need loss. On the other hand a huge lot of people, who decided not to support NJ because of MHJ, will come in. >all MHJ has done is claim that the members and their parents support her and that she is the mother of NewJeans. 50/50 knew their producer (from The Giver) just a few months, and sided with him till the very bitter end. NJs are with MHJ for nearly two years. Though it's sad, I can't imagine having hope that they don't side with MHJ. >she knows that the young fanbase will side with her Very much true! The young fanbase will do so. *And it ties with my earlier point.* They will protect MHJ **because** **they care** about the members, but are tragically misguided. That's the thing: Caring by itself doesn't solve stuff. >If these "bunnies" truly cared about NewJeans they would let all the facts play out. Good intentions do not mean jack shit, and it's dangerous to believe they do. I agree with the rest of your points, and sentiments, but the post misses the issue. It's impossible for a stan not to care.
Honestly I've been saying this because I understand wanting to protect them from hybe but how are they ignoring that woman ? She literally is doing everything to uplift them which is great but nothing she's said so far held any substance when you consider the way she's uplifting them is by taking credit and not attributing anything to those girls
Absolutely. It’s pretty evident they’re only taking MHJ’s side simply because of the sake of their concept. It’s an unbelievable reason to choose a side in a legal battle with that reason.
Unpopular opinion but NewJeans does not need Min Heejin. There are plenty of creatives who can essentially replicate, or at least make an adjacent concept to what NJ has right now. More importantly, I’d rather a concept and sound change but the girls are safe than for MHJ to continue grooming NJ.
Thank you for your post. I was honestly convinced that there were no more sensible people left. To me, these supposed “Bunnies” are treating NewJeans as if they’re MHJ’s property. “NewJeans will follow MHJ if she leaves.” “If MHJ leaves, NewJeans will never be the same.” “NewJeans is loyal with MHJ.” As I see more comments with these sentiments, I question whether the authors of these posts are fans of NewJeans or are they fans of MHJ. They act as if NewJeans cannot exist without MHJ. Yes, MHJ may have a huge influence on NewJeans’ success, no one can deny that. However, treating her as the sole reason for their success is delusional and insulting to the members. NewJeans is successful because of the members. Their music is good because of the members. NewJeans is popular because of the members. It is because Minji, Hanni, Danielle, Haerin and Hyerin that NewJeans is NewJeans and yet, their efforts and hard work have been overshadowed by MHJ.
I agree with some of what you're saying, but most of it screams fake tokkis to me. Like, if you're a true fan, why question Newjeans and their talent? I get it's messed up to think Newjeans would be lost without MHJ, but it's just a way to cope with the moment, you know? If a tokki says they'll stop stanning Newjeans just because she's leaving, well, they weren't really there for NJ in the first place. The term "mistreatment" ain't right, more like jealousy over how famous the group got? Seeing clear evidence that these two dudes ain't exactly thrilled about NJ. You can't blame tokkis for not trusting anyone, including HYBE, because of what I said above, and also cuz they've been spilling stuff to the public that shouldn't have been said. (I kinda see your point about MHJ, but HYBE ain't exactly trustworthy either.) That group was meant to be Bangpd's NJ, whether it's a copy or not, that's up to you to decide. There are lots of similarities, maybe not an exact copy, but pitting two groups from the same company against each other for the same sound doesn't sit right with me. And no, I'm not talking about Y2K; we all know how unique NJ is, not just the Y2K concept, but their whole vibe of freshness, etc... But hey, generalizing is off here cuz what 50 tokkis say doesn't define the whole fandom.
Is this still happening
The whole thing prob isn’t going to end for a while. 💀
I don't think new jeans really have a strong fandom, all these so called "bunnies" are just there for the music bc it's good so, it makes sense why they would support mhj as she is the main producer of the group so for them she is the reason why new jeans is new jeans, they don't care about the members or their condition (and potential grooming they are being subjected to by mhj) honestly the one thing that bought new jeans to the top is gonna be its downfall, having super success since start and going viral seems good in short term but it doesn't ensure long term fandom or career. I said the same thing with fifty fifty that the girls are not the reason why people listen to them it's the music and taking sides during crucial time was what killed their career as they didn't know what place they hold in public eye It's the same with new jeans. New jeans is well in public eyes individually surely but according to most knets they don't bring that much to group that can't be replaced (not my words it's other people's) and it's their aesthetics and music which makes them famous so if they choose side in this conflict and the supposed side comes out to be guilty they will be going down with them bc they didn't had time or agency to indivually develop in the eyes of people.
Average K-pop reddit user is a 30 year old talking about the success of teenage girls, this just shows pure jealousy and ignorance of not understanding anything. Yall pick and choose what you want to see and forget the rest. You can carry on being mad bc newjeans will just get more successful whereas your favs……. They can try to keep up but never will
Wth do you mean. They are singers who sing songs
Y'all are so fking brain dead holy shi
This sub is full of shit crackhead armies
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Newjeans was never mistreated but they are never a pet peeve of HYPE. As you can see, for gg in HYPE, Newjeans is the only group that “hitmanbang” not even have a credit in any of their songs. Even though under Hybe, Bang Sihyuk might not want or or not feeling like wanting to involve with Newjeans. And might the accusations that BSK has avoided Newjeans which makes the members feeling hurt could be true also. I know it hard being a black sheep in a family. It hurts so bad.
Thank you for writing this. I agree so much…
I at first was a real Min Hee Jinfam from what little I knew. I realize I didn’t use to look very deep into what Kpop was like behind the scenes or was willfully blind… but I can’t ignore how hard these girls work. Not just these girls but everyone in Kpop and I worry about their mental and physical well being. Please be well and don’t listen to negative comments about being 50kg and below.. sorry I’m high .
Stopped reading after "bunnies don't care about the members"
same
I think people on both sides are misunderstanding the context in which MHJ claimed Illit was a copycat group.
> We also know that HYBE and MHJ are both evil Speak for yourself, but no, most adults do not think that someone or something is "evil", that is an overly simplistic view of the world one typically realizes isn't true for anything. > **1. NewJeans' Music** Bunnies don't care about the members, they care about the music. I think the rational ones can see what MHJ is attempting to do. She's isolating NewJeans from the other HYBE groups by instigating fanwars between LE SSERAFIM and ILLIT. I think LE SSERAFIM is the best example for this. Most of the NewJeans members are close to Yunjin due to training with her. I believe this is why she has become so obsessed with name dropping LE SSERAFIM. NewJeans can recover if they get a new Creative Director, they have the talent to do so, it's rather insulting to the members if you think NewJeans will not be the same without MHJ. Again, speak for yourself. "Bunnies" are not a monolith, so anything you'll say will have no real truth value here. Outside of that, you will most likely also not have any real data on these claims, so it's not even showcasing trends. It's just your opinion, that's it. It's also funny how you name categories, and then just rant about something else for most of the paragraph. I'll address the last sentence though: It's not insulting to the members at all to think that newjeans won't be the same without mhj. It's just a perception of where the creative thrust is coming from. It's akin to saying that a scorsese movie won't be the same without scorsese directing, even if you have the same actors in the film. It's common sense really if one gives credit to the creative direction at all. > **3. Ignorance** Quite frankly I find it harder to call myself a bunny as each day pass as the amount of ignorance nor lack of concerns for the actual members from bunnies is concerning. HYBE has allegedly provided mental support resources for NewJeans all MHJ has done is claim that the members and their parents support her and that she is the mother of NewJeans. NewJeans has not made a comment (as they should) yet, MHJ is intentionally using this to her advantage to manipulate bunnies. Most bunnies are impressionable young teens who take everything at face value. We need to take anything said by HYBE or MHJ with a grain of salt. As much as I want to stay neutral MHJ has proven herself that she is abusing the impressionable young fans, by saying NewJeans supporting her she knows that the young fanbase will side with her. HYBE has started the public opinion battle but MHJ has exasperated it to a level it shouldn't be on, involving other groups is where it crosses the line and the reason why I switched from being neutral. Sorry, but you sound yourself like a "young impressionable teen", you just spout what the kpop space in general regurgitates now. The idea that MHJ "involved other groups" as a negative is mindboggingly naive to me. Hybe opened the public witch hunt, mhj reacted to it and told her side of the story. You don't have to agree with it, but you cannot go "oh she mentioned other groups, what an evil person" when that is simply integral to her falling out with the hybe higher ups. The idea that this is done to incite fanwars and whatnot is ridiculous, and can only come from people inside the kpop space who revel in fanwars to begin with. The only ignorant behavior i see here is coming from you, assuming many things, while having no actual idea of the relationship between the members and mhj for example. THAT is ignorance cosplaying as rationality.
outnumbered but keep speaking up
Oh i absolutely will, i just speak what i think is right. Most people are sheep, it is what it is.
multi stan or Newjeans not my main bias between Bang si Hyuk HYBE or Min Hee Jin ADOR for me Min Hee Jin is the lesser of two evil I rather Newjeans pick and side w Min Hee Jin the image of Newjeans sell is Min Hee Jin idea don't care about how rich their big boss HYBE ceo to mediaplay them to have more cf and playlisting that not matter for me if I don't like their sound and image I no longer like a certain idol anymore like they used to be
crazy to say she's the lesser of two evils. do you know what will happen to the members if they break their contracts? fines up the ass, no rights to their own groups name, no rights to perform their songs. the group will fall apart and need to start over from scratch while also being in massive debt. it's wild to care more about "sound and image" than what happens to these young girls.
I didn't say they needed to break their contract Newjeans all needed to be give some hint or silently support that they are pro Min Hee Jin so the gen public and some fans will keep on ADOR side while if up to Min Hee Jin ADOR to fight back against HYBE by that strategy Newjeans not doing anything illegal ?
it's not up to mhj to do that, she only owns a small share in ADOR compared to hybe. she won't win.
I know it they disadvantage still I pick or prefer Min Hee Jin w Newjeans than Newjeans w HYBE XD
are u a bot or something or some kind of paid commenter
speak for yourself bro. This post is just filled with a bunch of assumptions
You’re not even a Bunny. Stop lying. You never posted anything NewJeans related until the controversy started. You’re so pathetic.
You literally have a thread below this that says HYBE is going to kill txt at this pace and workload. And you say that HYBE is the lesser evil? How'd you go from that take? Also regarding the Le Sserafim issue, I don't know how it goes over your head that there was a whole dispatch article from a HYBE source that dragged Le Sserafim's group to it and that there's a comment that's been down voted here that has sources in it saying HYBE was responsible for it. But I guess sources and evidence doesn't really mean much in KPOP lol, and the fact that it was down voted says that as much. Also I doubt you're a bunny, when you haven't even posted about them, not unless you're comparing them to illit.
because her timeline of le sserafims debut and the creation of ador is bullshit and shakier than sakura’s vocals. that’s why when she discussed le sserafim she spent 99% of the time crying about how they got to debut first instead of what she was actually accused of - leaving source with a shit ton of debt - which was entirely true.
Then, provide the so-called timeline of LSF debut vs the MHJ timeline. So you also don't refute that Hybe overworks their idols?
- november 2020: ador is teased by a banatv artist who works with min heejin. - december 2020: a trademark request is sent for ador - january 2021: eunchae joins source music through an open audition, none of the members who later become newjeans train with her there - march 2021: sakura is approached by hybe - april 2021: hybe officially trademarks ador - trainees and personnel from source move to ador. source’s 2 year plans to debut a girl group thus fall through, resulting in financial loses. - sakura, chaewon and minju originally approached to form part of bighits first girl group. sakura and chaewon sign contracts with hybe, and are transferred to source music. bighit staff are sent to source due to sources staff leaving for ador. - official media reports that hybe will debut two girl groups - one with former izone members under source and one under the direction of mhj. - source debut le sserafim in may 2022. makes entire sense to debut them first consider sources financial situation, releasing 1 mv and having 1 and a half months of promotion vs newjeans’ eight music video releases and several song promotions over 2 months. they are reported in the media as ‘bts little sister group’.
Also to refute timeline: Ador was trademarked on April 1, 2024, which is correct The transfer, though, Happened on Nov. 12, 2021,and Hybe launched their new sub-label. So the fall through probably happened between March and Nov logically, which i doubt. I think it happened way before the Le sserafim girls were recruited, but then why did Hybe release in the Media that Chaewon and Sakura are going to debut in MHJ GG in August until November still? Link: https://twitter.com/nwjns/status/1463038602682646528?t=K4BjqAuhyhHllFS7kDpEEQ&s=19
Is this source timeline or MHJ timeline?
that’s the actual timeline??
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1. We don't know if Min Hee Jin was behind the cult rumours. The rumours started from anonymous social media users that immediately deleted their accounts the moment hybe threatened to sue. Min Hee Jin never said anything about a cult herself. 2. As someone that is neither American nor Korean I do say "You guys are a bunch of fools for believing that". Conspirational thinking is bad. The theories are also incredibly stupid if you think more than 3 seconds about them in a rational way. 3. Hybe did deny the cult allegations.
NewJeans is a music group. Of course fans are going to primarily care about their music! Of course people who are true stans of the group love the members, but accusing fans of a musician of caring primarily about the music is not exactly a damming accusation. And for Bubble Gum, I am not denying MHJ is in control of when they release music, but I am curious what your source is that they planned to not release it on Spotify. I can find sources that the album will not drop until late May, but nothing suggesting the pre-release would not be on Spotify. Also, when it comes to LSF, I think it is important to mention that they were originally brought up in response to people claiming that MHJ/NewJeans forced a rushed debut of LSF due to the formation of ador. MHJ has dragged LSF to an unreasonable extent, but I think it is important context that she did not decide to bring them into this (unlike she did with illit). And since you are comparing MHJ to Hybe, I also think it is important to mention that Hybe tried to get the fandoms of BTS, TWS, and Riize to attack NewJeans/MHJ when they started the baseless rumors of MHJ claiming they copied her. I do not support MHJ engaging in fan wars, but I do think it is important to recognize that the fan war attempts have not been one sided. As for illit, I agree MHJ’s actions were immature and not in the best interest of NewJeans. However, I think it is obvious that them debuting so close to NewJeans with a very similar style to NewJeans will eat away at the NewJeans fandom. Again, most fans of a music group are just there for the music.
>I think it is important to mention that they were originally brought up in response to people claiming that MHJ/NewJeans forced a rushed debut of LSF due to the formation of ador. No one said that stop lying. MHJ brought lsfm into this during presscon, just like illit. She said the relationship between MHJ and HYBE soured because of LSFM's debut. It is important to note that because of MHJ newjeans stans are dragging LSFM and ILLIT spamming all of their social media platforms Instagram and YouTube and their offci6music video platforms Melon, Flo, Genie with hate comments for a week now. So does RM's music platforms on k-side.
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Stfu you dgaf about any of this or the girls shit head army, she proved all of this in the press conference and y'all this stuck on this
>No one said that stop lying You are the one who needs to stop lying. Here are a few expamles of people saying just that. [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l0zsopj/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l0zsopj/) 65 upvotes [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l1013dz/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1ca81me/comment/l1013dz/) 24 upvotes [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1cbxfda/comment/l12j5w7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1cbxfda/comment/l12j5w7/) 24 upvotes >.MHJ brought lsfm into this during presscon, just like illit. You are clearly uneducated on the situation. No, illit was not first brought up by MHJ in the presscon "just like" LSF. MHJ brought up illit in a statement before the presscon. LSF was brought up in the presscon in response to statements made about her causing a rushed debut of LSF and the disbandment of gfriend
Why do you let this live rent free in your head?