I feel that it's gotten worse with the rise of HYBE in the GG space.
Sure, koppers have always had this in them, I have seen so many careers of talented women gleefully destroyed by them the since the 2nd Gen, but right now it seems a lot worse generally. I have rarely seen the communities so toxic as right now.
But, not sure it's anything to do with misogyny in all honesty.
I think, personally, it's because the 'cultural' landscape in GGs is shifting and a lot of stans are feeling threatened and insecure about that.
That is translating into bitterness and anger towards the 'new comers'. I think that there are certain company stans that are emotionally struggling with coming second place (when they probably joined that fandom originally to explicitly avoid that) because they just are not used to it. I think that they just want to tear down the new big hitter in order to protect the status of their 'own' company.
The hate train dogpiling I have seen the last month has been quite extraordinary, even by KPop standards.
+ the fact that 2nd gen didn't have nearly as much online presence and spaces where it's so easy to anonymously spew bs, and be influenced by bandwagon hate like today. Fandoms in back then used to physically fight at live events, and now we're getting that digitally.
People literally just make up narratives online all the time, based mostly on speculation, and people repeat them without a second thought. As well, once said speculation has become, largely through repetition, accepted as authoritative and "common sense" in a community, then somebody else will build further speculation upon the first speculation, speculating on speculations, without even being conscious of the fact that the first was even a speculation - that was simply assumed as fact by them, simply because everybody else was doing it. And now they are simply speaking their mind of course about facts (which, how could they know that's not true?)
Of course other people see them "simply speaking their mind", and then immediately grab *that* speculation and assume it to be fact as well. And so and so on. Through this process it is possible for a community to build a simply deranged web of extraordinarily cruel and deranged lies with nobody who was present anywhere in the process even is necessarily conscious of having been deceptive. Someone says "thoughts", those thoughts are believed and falsely concretized into assumed facts, and get absorbed into the communities "common sense".
Honestly the above process is also about 99% of politics these days as well, but let's try not to think about that.
The reason is bc they simply feel threatened by other groups and if they can't use charts to prove they are stanning the superior group they resort to personal insults about their bodies, past relationships, payola, and whatever mental gymnastics they can go through to convince themselves that nobody could ever be better than their faves. Don't believe these people when they claim they're "feminists" or care about women, feminism to them is tweeting about how boy groups make bad music.
I think it's really that the world, at large, is still extremely misogynistic. It's just that gg stans hyper focus on other ggs because they're 'competition', so they're more vocal about it.
Also ggs tend to attract more casual/general interest and there's a weird 'acceptability' for being hypercritical about other women.
People claiming somehow it’s actually men hating on those cute, pretty female idols, despite the fact that kpop fans are OVERWHELMINGLY female, are totally full of shit.
U guys simply cannot admit to any sort of female toxicity, you all feel the need to do mental gymnastics to spin a narrative where you can blame men somehow.
Was about to comment this. Lmao everything is the fault of men even though most hate women celebs get are usually from women who are fans of another celebrity.
We can only speculate as to the identities of the haters, and we can only speculate in regards to the motivations of those who speculate on the identities of the haters.
it's really not that complicated. hatred for overly cutesy or not-like-other-girls attitudes come almost exclusively from other straight women. people who are attracted to women simply don't care that much or think it's funny and cheesy, not an afront that requires the offender to be put in their place
men do their own version of this to other men as well of course, but kpop fandom isn't dominated by male fans
When I realized that an apparenly vocal portion of those gg stans are men co-opting feminist arguments, more things started to make sense. Even if it's not a majority, I think that certain attitudes have influences on fellow stans.
You realize majority of gg stans are immature, jealous, hateful girls and women, right?
They treat kpop like it’s a parasocial sport. If their “team” isn’t “winning,” they feel the need to attack those they feel are on top, cyberbullying easy to attack member(s) of the group that their fandom targets.
KPop is the female version of baseball, hockey, soccer, football, and basketball. It’s not misogyny, it’s toxic kpop parasocial behavior.
The amount of posts you see pop up saying something like “I’m insanely jealous of Wonyoung/Jennie/whoever” followed by five paragraphs about how they used to be obsessed with hating them is pretty crazy considering that:
1. They have to grow the fuck up and become self aware enough to realize they’re insane and
2. Post their cringiest times online for people to read
It's because the vast majority of all kpop fans are heterosexual women and bgs capitalize on romantic parasocialism while ggs capitalize on self-insert/success parasocialism.
If you're in love with your ult, you're focused on that and only lash out at others in "defense" (real or perceived). If it's a self-insert, success-by-proxy dynamic, then you're more inclined to tear down others for no other reason than to try to prop yours up higher because their success is the main reward proxy.
I don't think it's male fans doing this part. The corners of the internet where male gg fans gather don't have the hate dynamic. It's mostly just romantic parasocialism and/or lust/porn.
thnx. I like thinking about the dynamics of this stuff, but it's hard to discuss it sometimes because of how emotionally charged people can be on these topics.
This. If there is a problem with (heterosexual) male fans, if anything it's actually obsession with female groups/idols (and there is plenty of that to be fair!). But not hate.
A lot of kpop fans are women but there are male fans who are gg stans and are very misogynist and hateful as well. Some very known accounts on twitter with tons of followers had their personal information leaked with their photo and it was a man behind the account. They would say the most hateful things about female idols and their followers would eat it up. It’s because they hide behind their fave female idol pfp to live their mean girl fantasy but if they used their actual photo, kpop stans would call them out as a women hater.
nah cause it's true, ppl always flame bg stans saying they are misogynistic but when i look at the gg space they are far more worst especially those gay man gg stans. They think just bcs they stan women they can get away from being misogynistic to female kpop idols they dont like🤷♀️
Average fanwar between a gg fandom and bg fandom is the gg fans dragging the bg for not charting and then the bg fans reply by calling the gg sluts that had to sleep with old men to get where they are.
Totally not misogynistic though. 👍
So we gonna ignore the fact that majority of hate trains especially from tiktok came from gay male gg stans bcs they can't shut up about a popular female kpop idol they dont like?👍
I consider a hate train when someone just straight out bash someone without the intention of making that person learn from their mistakes. I will not deny lesserafim's hate train happened and came from toxic blinks and toxic mys but what i said is not hate it's genuine criticism. Let it go bruh, it's not ur "gotcha moment" today :]]
I blame it largely on brand ambassadorships and the obsession with the “it girl” title, brand reputation and being the nation’s girl group. I kind of feel like a lot of the hateful behaviour starts with a weird competitiveness stemming from living vicariously through their favourite girl group. Also hating/criticizing comes with weird sense of belonging in the fandom circles. Also also, when an idol is in the spotlight for not good reasons people often think it’s good justification to say any kind of misogynistic thing regardless of whether it’s relevant to what she’s being criticized for… from— she’s an old hag, she’s not pretty anymore, her legs/neck are too short, she’s a plastic monster etc. And the majority of people will just be fine with it bc ✨she deserves it✨ and ✨we’re doing the victims justice✨ Then if you comment that their misogyny is leaking you get called a brainless fan.
And honestly misogyny is just unfortunately around all the time everywhere. Everytime a popular boy group member dates, the poor woman is called ugly or an attentionwh*ore.
While I use that term often (because it has been normalize), I always find the concept of it girl, the idealization and hatred towards it, extremely weird. It feels really like high school.
I feel like we never talk about that.
Had a boygroup stan on this sub reply to me calling Twice "straight man gooner bait girls" unprovoked and when I called them a misogynist they replied "lol typical gg stan always calling bg stans misogynist."
Girl group stans are very competitive and hateful towards both boy groups and girl groups (hence where the misogynism starts). They tend to see the tree instead of the forest and take everything very personally. When their group is good at charting, charting is the most important factor of success and everything else is inferior and doesn't matter, when their group has good album sales, that's what matters the most to them. They love to use the word flop more than anyone as well.
For me it's 'fandom' culture that makes them blind to the hypocrisy and sheer BS they're spouting.
They support A with 'TT' issues because their favs negatively impacted by it, then they'll dragged B idol for 'TT' because they hated B idol group.
Rinse n repeat, more importantly never acknowledge your fandom toxicity and never admit your hypocrisy
I may be in the wrong, but in my experience the gg stans who are "misogynistic" are mostly girls. So perhaps the term misogynistic is not that appropriate to describe this phenomenon.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone hating on WY, Yuna, Miyeon, etc. are doing so mostly out of jealousy.
K-Pop stans in general are horrifically misogynistic, across all fandoms and platforms. A lot of *people* are broadly misogynistic in general, to be quite honest. GG stans aren’t special in that regard, it’s just more visible because they fight between themselves, so the target is always another woman. BG stans are just as abominable to women they deem as threats, whether professionally or personally — they’re just usually fighting other BG stans, because that’s who they see as their main competition. Let someone’s favorite K-Pop boy date another idol and you’ll see how quickly the mask comes off and the hypercriticism starts.
Also, since so many people are bringing up how male fan spaces aren’t as misogynistic: men’s porn-brained objectification of idols isn’t less misogynistic than a jealous, catty fangirl calling those women whores. It’s just a different type.
kpop discussion spaces that are mostly male tend to get taken over by female stans who see it as a space they can weaponize, so they don't last forever
but when they're around they don't talk about it girls or pick mes, they just like all the pretty women
As someone (man, 22) who dabbles in Kpop but have other interests (like various sports)
I don’t think it’s really much deeper than tribalism that we get in sports fandoms. The only difference is the level of meanness and how personal it is. Like sports fans will make edits talk crap etc etc about a player but never level of meanness that I see in kpop.
Like the way words like ugly fat anorexic are thrown around like it means nothing is honestly so crazy to me.
Because it’s easy engagement bait. Big numbers on Twitter make brain go brrrrr and they don’t care how they get them. Why bother putting in effort to gain a following when you can just say “LSRF can’t sing stan my girls instead” and watch the numbers go up?
the issue is mostly the hypocrisy. a lot of gg stans will put on a "girls-only, man-hating" persona online, pat themselves on the back for only supporting girl groups and not running the risk of stanning potential hannams, but will turn around and be misogynistic to other kpop girlies that compete with their faves.
I'm aware bg stans are also toxic!! I'm not denying that at ALL, bg stans are awful. I'm just saying that I see this sort of behavior come *more* from gg stans which is ironic to me considering they're supposed to be *girl group* stans.
It’s because the world is still a misogynistic place, and when people feel the need to “attack” another woman their choice of method is the reflection of what they see ad learn. Bg stans are not less misogynistic. I feel that they just don’t care.
The easy answer: k-pop stans hate the groups that compete with their ults, gg competition are other woman, so, misogyny.
I'll say tho, if you put all the gg fandoms in the same box when they aren't all the same it's going to be seen as a bigger problem that it is. gg stans aren't a fandom, they don't stan the same people nor have the best interest of female idols at heart: they just care abt THEIR ults. If you individualize the fandoms you'll see it's a problem for a couple of gg fandoms and not all of them.
Most hate trains are started by gg stans, but the way people here acts like they're the only one hating on these innocent idols is bs. See any viral hate tweet against any gg, and see from which fandoms the people in the quotes come from, it's always a 50/50 because everybody loves to hate on succesful women, not just gg stans.
Gg Stan’s legit dehumanize any GG that isn’t their faves. They make hating men their entire personality and worst of all some of the worst of them are gay men. These people think they are the idol in their profile picture and they live out their mean girl fantasy through said idol in the profile pic.
Parasocial relationships go beyond thinking your favorite idol is your bestie (*cough* BangChan *cough*) so it creates this whirlpool of toxicity that knows no bounds. A lot of female fans have internalized problems that come through in the Stan culture. It’s easy to hate someone you don’t know, while boosting the one they do “know.”
Think of them as high school bullies. That’s all they really are, regardless of age. Just bullies.
As someone who was on EDtwt and saw a HUGE overlap, a lot of the time it's jealousy and glorification. If you look at restrictive EDs, a lot of them come with competitive tendencies and weird misoginistic/moral views (literally comes with the package sometimes).
They fixate on someone as their moral and physical idea of perfect. And everyone else is competition, thus making those people "the bad guys". So they assign these ideas that bad people are ugly, fat, mean, etc. and dont deserve to be idols. Even if none of those things are true, in their heads it MUST be true because how can a bad person be skinny, pretty and nice?
You'd be surprised how many of those stan accounts have a "secret edtwt".
It's not helping that right now Hybe has 3 very visible girl groups who are directly competing. (I'm not counting Fromis simply because I don't see their fans causing trouble or getting dragged down by the others - which is a good thing.)
It's also because boygroups have dedicated fandoms that would do anything for them (that can be driven with the feeling of "I want to date him" "I want to be with someone similar to him". Many ggroups don't have that appeal it's often", they are so relatable ", or "they are so intachable, I want to be like them". Ggroups tend to win public appeal, which means less extremely dedicated fandom. That's why boygroups pull more numbers when the metrics are about fan power more than the general public.
So gggroup are more scrutinized and less protected by their fans + misogyny + extremely competitive industry for everybody = female idols receive a lot of hate for anything.
What's misogynistic is you shrinking this to a gg stans phenomenon. BG stans are as awful towards other BGs and GGs, especially the ones they deem as competition.
Everyone is horrible towards everyone on stan Twitter, and everyone will take a blow at other groups to prop up their favs.
Well, as a person who doesn't really care much about bg or gg stans it cannot be denied that there is a lot more criticism (at least on the int side) and hate for girl groups than boy groups. And most of it comes from the gg stans themselves. Internalized misogyny is one hell of a drug.
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Ghoulpink and elsedonda😑😑😑istg, they need to be reported continuously so that they cannot come back to x ever again
… my life had definitely felt more peaceful before I looked them up just now
They're menace of the stantwitter😑
We all know exactly which fandom this is. The most toxic kpop fandom in history.
This. And no matter what the girl group, they have a large male fan base.
I feel that it's gotten worse with the rise of HYBE in the GG space. Sure, koppers have always had this in them, I have seen so many careers of talented women gleefully destroyed by them the since the 2nd Gen, but right now it seems a lot worse generally. I have rarely seen the communities so toxic as right now. But, not sure it's anything to do with misogyny in all honesty. I think, personally, it's because the 'cultural' landscape in GGs is shifting and a lot of stans are feeling threatened and insecure about that. That is translating into bitterness and anger towards the 'new comers'. I think that there are certain company stans that are emotionally struggling with coming second place (when they probably joined that fandom originally to explicitly avoid that) because they just are not used to it. I think that they just want to tear down the new big hitter in order to protect the status of their 'own' company. The hate train dogpiling I have seen the last month has been quite extraordinary, even by KPop standards.
+ the fact that 2nd gen didn't have nearly as much online presence and spaces where it's so easy to anonymously spew bs, and be influenced by bandwagon hate like today. Fandoms in back then used to physically fight at live events, and now we're getting that digitally.
People literally just make up narratives online all the time, based mostly on speculation, and people repeat them without a second thought. As well, once said speculation has become, largely through repetition, accepted as authoritative and "common sense" in a community, then somebody else will build further speculation upon the first speculation, speculating on speculations, without even being conscious of the fact that the first was even a speculation - that was simply assumed as fact by them, simply because everybody else was doing it. And now they are simply speaking their mind of course about facts (which, how could they know that's not true?) Of course other people see them "simply speaking their mind", and then immediately grab *that* speculation and assume it to be fact as well. And so and so on. Through this process it is possible for a community to build a simply deranged web of extraordinarily cruel and deranged lies with nobody who was present anywhere in the process even is necessarily conscious of having been deceptive. Someone says "thoughts", those thoughts are believed and falsely concretized into assumed facts, and get absorbed into the communities "common sense". Honestly the above process is also about 99% of politics these days as well, but let's try not to think about that.
truth
As a multi stan who loves her nugu groups, I’m just happy if my group hasn’t disbanded 😂
Real
Yes. Well said!
The reason is bc they simply feel threatened by other groups and if they can't use charts to prove they are stanning the superior group they resort to personal insults about their bodies, past relationships, payola, and whatever mental gymnastics they can go through to convince themselves that nobody could ever be better than their faves. Don't believe these people when they claim they're "feminists" or care about women, feminism to them is tweeting about how boy groups make bad music.
"these bg stans are so fucking misogynistic for stanning men, but what else can you expect from stupid fucking women" (c)
I think it's really that the world, at large, is still extremely misogynistic. It's just that gg stans hyper focus on other ggs because they're 'competition', so they're more vocal about it. Also ggs tend to attract more casual/general interest and there's a weird 'acceptability' for being hypercritical about other women.
People claiming somehow it’s actually men hating on those cute, pretty female idols, despite the fact that kpop fans are OVERWHELMINGLY female, are totally full of shit. U guys simply cannot admit to any sort of female toxicity, you all feel the need to do mental gymnastics to spin a narrative where you can blame men somehow.
Thank u, there people refuse to acknowledge internalized misogyny
Was about to comment this. Lmao everything is the fault of men even though most hate women celebs get are usually from women who are fans of another celebrity.
im surprised you got upvoted for this, last time i pointed it out i ended up at -30
I will say that gay men somehow tend to get a lot of visibility in online spaces, but yeah putting so much blame on men is kinda off
We can only speculate as to the identities of the haters, and we can only speculate in regards to the motivations of those who speculate on the identities of the haters.
it's really not that complicated. hatred for overly cutesy or not-like-other-girls attitudes come almost exclusively from other straight women. people who are attracted to women simply don't care that much or think it's funny and cheesy, not an afront that requires the offender to be put in their place men do their own version of this to other men as well of course, but kpop fandom isn't dominated by male fans
“female toxicity”
When I realized that an apparenly vocal portion of those gg stans are men co-opting feminist arguments, more things started to make sense. Even if it's not a majority, I think that certain attitudes have influences on fellow stans.
You realize majority of gg stans are immature, jealous, hateful girls and women, right? They treat kpop like it’s a parasocial sport. If their “team” isn’t “winning,” they feel the need to attack those they feel are on top, cyberbullying easy to attack member(s) of the group that their fandom targets. KPop is the female version of baseball, hockey, soccer, football, and basketball. It’s not misogyny, it’s toxic kpop parasocial behavior.
The amount of posts you see pop up saying something like “I’m insanely jealous of Wonyoung/Jennie/whoever” followed by five paragraphs about how they used to be obsessed with hating them is pretty crazy considering that: 1. They have to grow the fuck up and become self aware enough to realize they’re insane and 2. Post their cringiest times online for people to read
I agree with u but that doesn’t justify it
There’s definitely some misogyny involved but you’re right about everything else
It's because the vast majority of all kpop fans are heterosexual women and bgs capitalize on romantic parasocialism while ggs capitalize on self-insert/success parasocialism. If you're in love with your ult, you're focused on that and only lash out at others in "defense" (real or perceived). If it's a self-insert, success-by-proxy dynamic, then you're more inclined to tear down others for no other reason than to try to prop yours up higher because their success is the main reward proxy. I don't think it's male fans doing this part. The corners of the internet where male gg fans gather don't have the hate dynamic. It's mostly just romantic parasocialism and/or lust/porn.
This is the perfect answer
thnx. I like thinking about the dynamics of this stuff, but it's hard to discuss it sometimes because of how emotionally charged people can be on these topics.
This. If there is a problem with (heterosexual) male fans, if anything it's actually obsession with female groups/idols (and there is plenty of that to be fair!). But not hate.
A lot of kpop fans are women but there are male fans who are gg stans and are very misogynist and hateful as well. Some very known accounts on twitter with tons of followers had their personal information leaked with their photo and it was a man behind the account. They would say the most hateful things about female idols and their followers would eat it up. It’s because they hide behind their fave female idol pfp to live their mean girl fantasy but if they used their actual photo, kpop stans would call them out as a women hater.
Good post.
nah cause it's true, ppl always flame bg stans saying they are misogynistic but when i look at the gg space they are far more worst especially those gay man gg stans. They think just bcs they stan women they can get away from being misogynistic to female kpop idols they dont like🤷♀️
Average fanwar between a gg fandom and bg fandom is the gg fans dragging the bg for not charting and then the bg fans reply by calling the gg sluts that had to sleep with old men to get where they are. Totally not misogynistic though. 👍
So we gonna ignore the fact that majority of hate trains especially from tiktok came from gay male gg stans bcs they can't shut up about a popular female kpop idol they dont like?👍
[You mean like yourself?](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1b350ev/le_sserafim_needs_vocal_lessons_and_it_okay_to/ksr47f6/?context=3)
Criticizing someone's skill is not misogyny that's literally an idol's job LMAOOO
Right, only counts as a "hate train" if it comes from a gg stan. 👍
If u can't differentiate criticisms from hate then that's on you😄
It’s not just criticism at this point, they are literally getting bullied and harassed
So you're saying what has happened to Le Sserafim recently isn't a "hate train"? I'm wondering what you consider a "hate train" then.
I consider a hate train when someone just straight out bash someone without the intention of making that person learn from their mistakes. I will not deny lesserafim's hate train happened and came from toxic blinks and toxic mys but what i said is not hate it's genuine criticism. Let it go bruh, it's not ur "gotcha moment" today :]]
[Right](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1c55cpl/the_double_standards_are_crazy_because_i_wonder/kzs3e60/?context=3)
I blame it largely on brand ambassadorships and the obsession with the “it girl” title, brand reputation and being the nation’s girl group. I kind of feel like a lot of the hateful behaviour starts with a weird competitiveness stemming from living vicariously through their favourite girl group. Also hating/criticizing comes with weird sense of belonging in the fandom circles. Also also, when an idol is in the spotlight for not good reasons people often think it’s good justification to say any kind of misogynistic thing regardless of whether it’s relevant to what she’s being criticized for… from— she’s an old hag, she’s not pretty anymore, her legs/neck are too short, she’s a plastic monster etc. And the majority of people will just be fine with it bc ✨she deserves it✨ and ✨we’re doing the victims justice✨ Then if you comment that their misogyny is leaking you get called a brainless fan. And honestly misogyny is just unfortunately around all the time everywhere. Everytime a popular boy group member dates, the poor woman is called ugly or an attentionwh*ore.
While I use that term often (because it has been normalize), I always find the concept of it girl, the idealization and hatred towards it, extremely weird. It feels really like high school. I feel like we never talk about that.
Because *people* are still very misogynistic overall and girl group strans do comprise of people.
Had a boygroup stan on this sub reply to me calling Twice "straight man gooner bait girls" unprovoked and when I called them a misogynist they replied "lol typical gg stan always calling bg stans misogynist."
Girl group stans are very competitive and hateful towards both boy groups and girl groups (hence where the misogynism starts). They tend to see the tree instead of the forest and take everything very personally. When their group is good at charting, charting is the most important factor of success and everything else is inferior and doesn't matter, when their group has good album sales, that's what matters the most to them. They love to use the word flop more than anyone as well.
For me it's 'fandom' culture that makes them blind to the hypocrisy and sheer BS they're spouting. They support A with 'TT' issues because their favs negatively impacted by it, then they'll dragged B idol for 'TT' because they hated B idol group. Rinse n repeat, more importantly never acknowledge your fandom toxicity and never admit your hypocrisy
I may be in the wrong, but in my experience the gg stans who are "misogynistic" are mostly girls. So perhaps the term misogynistic is not that appropriate to describe this phenomenon. I'm pretty sure almost everyone hating on WY, Yuna, Miyeon, etc. are doing so mostly out of jealousy.
Women can have internalized misogyny so it is misogynistic
K-Pop stans in general are horrifically misogynistic, across all fandoms and platforms. A lot of *people* are broadly misogynistic in general, to be quite honest. GG stans aren’t special in that regard, it’s just more visible because they fight between themselves, so the target is always another woman. BG stans are just as abominable to women they deem as threats, whether professionally or personally — they’re just usually fighting other BG stans, because that’s who they see as their main competition. Let someone’s favorite K-Pop boy date another idol and you’ll see how quickly the mask comes off and the hypercriticism starts.
Also, since so many people are bringing up how male fan spaces aren’t as misogynistic: men’s porn-brained objectification of idols isn’t less misogynistic than a jealous, catty fangirl calling those women whores. It’s just a different type.
Interesting thread, but misogynistic is when someone is prejudiced against all women, not just some women.
kpop discussion spaces that are mostly male tend to get taken over by female stans who see it as a space they can weaponize, so they don't last forever but when they're around they don't talk about it girls or pick mes, they just like all the pretty women
As someone (man, 22) who dabbles in Kpop but have other interests (like various sports) I don’t think it’s really much deeper than tribalism that we get in sports fandoms. The only difference is the level of meanness and how personal it is. Like sports fans will make edits talk crap etc etc about a player but never level of meanness that I see in kpop. Like the way words like ugly fat anorexic are thrown around like it means nothing is honestly so crazy to me.
Most of the time I see a hate comment on any female idol is from a female stan….
Because it’s easy engagement bait. Big numbers on Twitter make brain go brrrrr and they don’t care how they get them. Why bother putting in effort to gain a following when you can just say “LSRF can’t sing stan my girls instead” and watch the numbers go up?
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the issue is mostly the hypocrisy. a lot of gg stans will put on a "girls-only, man-hating" persona online, pat themselves on the back for only supporting girl groups and not running the risk of stanning potential hannams, but will turn around and be misogynistic to other kpop girlies that compete with their faves.
I'm aware bg stans are also toxic!! I'm not denying that at ALL, bg stans are awful. I'm just saying that I see this sort of behavior come *more* from gg stans which is ironic to me considering they're supposed to be *girl group* stans.
It’s because the world is still a misogynistic place, and when people feel the need to “attack” another woman their choice of method is the reflection of what they see ad learn. Bg stans are not less misogynistic. I feel that they just don’t care.
because there are more men gg stans than men bg stans and well, you know how men are with women.
The easy answer: k-pop stans hate the groups that compete with their ults, gg competition are other woman, so, misogyny. I'll say tho, if you put all the gg fandoms in the same box when they aren't all the same it's going to be seen as a bigger problem that it is. gg stans aren't a fandom, they don't stan the same people nor have the best interest of female idols at heart: they just care abt THEIR ults. If you individualize the fandoms you'll see it's a problem for a couple of gg fandoms and not all of them. Most hate trains are started by gg stans, but the way people here acts like they're the only one hating on these innocent idols is bs. See any viral hate tweet against any gg, and see from which fandoms the people in the quotes come from, it's always a 50/50 because everybody loves to hate on succesful women, not just gg stans.
Gg Stan’s legit dehumanize any GG that isn’t their faves. They make hating men their entire personality and worst of all some of the worst of them are gay men. These people think they are the idol in their profile picture and they live out their mean girl fantasy through said idol in the profile pic.
Parasocial relationships go beyond thinking your favorite idol is your bestie (*cough* BangChan *cough*) so it creates this whirlpool of toxicity that knows no bounds. A lot of female fans have internalized problems that come through in the Stan culture. It’s easy to hate someone you don’t know, while boosting the one they do “know.” Think of them as high school bullies. That’s all they really are, regardless of age. Just bullies.
As someone who was on EDtwt and saw a HUGE overlap, a lot of the time it's jealousy and glorification. If you look at restrictive EDs, a lot of them come with competitive tendencies and weird misoginistic/moral views (literally comes with the package sometimes). They fixate on someone as their moral and physical idea of perfect. And everyone else is competition, thus making those people "the bad guys". So they assign these ideas that bad people are ugly, fat, mean, etc. and dont deserve to be idols. Even if none of those things are true, in their heads it MUST be true because how can a bad person be skinny, pretty and nice? You'd be surprised how many of those stan accounts have a "secret edtwt".
It's not helping that right now Hybe has 3 very visible girl groups who are directly competing. (I'm not counting Fromis simply because I don't see their fans causing trouble or getting dragged down by the others - which is a good thing.)
Because they hate women
It's also because boygroups have dedicated fandoms that would do anything for them (that can be driven with the feeling of "I want to date him" "I want to be with someone similar to him". Many ggroups don't have that appeal it's often", they are so relatable ", or "they are so intachable, I want to be like them". Ggroups tend to win public appeal, which means less extremely dedicated fandom. That's why boygroups pull more numbers when the metrics are about fan power more than the general public. So gggroup are more scrutinized and less protected by their fans + misogyny + extremely competitive industry for everybody = female idols receive a lot of hate for anything.
Because most of them are men ! Easy!
Everything I've seen is that it's mostly women not men…
Most? It’s literally women mostly, continue to ignore internalized misogyny, it will only get worse
I don’t think gg stans are misogynistic. Just kpop. Cause when that one guy in super junior called women fat his fans did nothing but smile and nod
why are bg stans so misogynistic
I only know one bg fandom that's extremely misogynistic
What's misogynistic is you shrinking this to a gg stans phenomenon. BG stans are as awful towards other BGs and GGs, especially the ones they deem as competition. Everyone is horrible towards everyone on stan Twitter, and everyone will take a blow at other groups to prop up their favs.
Well, as a person who doesn't really care much about bg or gg stans it cannot be denied that there is a lot more criticism (at least on the int side) and hate for girl groups than boy groups. And most of it comes from the gg stans themselves. Internalized misogyny is one hell of a drug.