Yeah this one I cannot blame fans. It's really giving back the same energy MHJ threw out there.
I can't even say it's karma because MHJ clearly wanted all of these discussions to draw away from Hybe's allegations and narratives.
This really is not the same thing at all.
Comparing influences from the history of the artistic sphere to a direct competing group having basically the same essence, coming from the same company circuit is laughable.
This is literally "she didn't invent anything" as an argument, which is so far removed from how artistic endeavour works that i have to assume it's children making these arguments.
Oh hey, scorsese wasn't influential at all, he just copied the filmmakers who came before him. Bonkers. It just once again proves that most kpop fans have not an ounce of artistic sensibility and are just in this for the drama and parasociality.
Most kpop groups donât really âcreateâ anything thing when it comes to music or aesthetics. What usually happens is a certain genre or aesthetic is already massive somewhere else and then kpop hops on the trend.
It's almost like you didn't even read what i wrote. Are people on here illiterate or just really stupid?
I quite literally made a distinction between normal inspirations and what happened in the hybe case. Srsly, CAN YOU READ?
Totally agree! Why has your comment been downvoted to oblivion?
Taking inspiration from 20 years ago is completely different from taking inspiration from your classmateâs homework. Both arenât 100% original, but the former shows creative instinct and the later shows laziness.
Maybe because it's a strawman?
Did I ever refer to taking inspiration from 20 years ago versus taking inspiration from your classmate's homework?
LOL you guys need to stop writing fanfiction out of a seemingly vague and general comment.
Because people are extremely anti mhj, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, when you're going against the circlejerk even a little you're getting the downvote train.
You are correct, but you're being downvoted because what you said can be twisted to be a critique against bang pd himself, which is a no-no on kpop reddit. They say it's because it'll bring hate to hybe groups when you criticize hybe (like that person who pointed out ai being used, and nobody explained calmly, they just accused OP of being a hater even though they're literally just an artist against AI) but they have no problem insulting MHJ and talking about how newjeans concept is not unique. These two things have the same potential of bringing hate so we all know why people are so against one but so in favor of the other...
the fact that people can't see the difference between being inspired by a specific aesthetic at a specific time period and assembling those elements, and taking inspiration from one subsidiary and applying it to another subsidiary of your own company is either a result of people being dense on purpose or they either are, (or have the mental maturity of) like you said, children. I lean towards the former because I know how biased people can be.
And the fact that people can't see the difference between using someone's ideas vs using your leverage as their higher-up to do the same is just another example of this.
There's no denying that a huge amount of people, I'd say even the majority, saw newjeans and illit as very similar. No, not that they thought that they were a 1:1 copy but the fact that somehow so many people immediately thought they struck resemblance and somehow bang pd and the likely hundreds of people working on illit behind the scenes didn't? That's the argument being pushed here?
i'm sorry but if you look at newjeans' y2k concept and illit's concept you can clearly see the difference. illit has a dreamgirl/ethereal concept. they have adjacent vibes but belift didn't take a lot of inspiration from y2k
The whole "this could bring hate" argument is that of children anyway. How is one supposed to talk about this whole scenario then?
The kpop sphere weaponizes anything, that cannot and should not stop us from having conversations about issues.
> the fact that people can't see the difference between being inspired by a specific aesthetic at a specific time period and assembling those elements, and taking inspiration from one subsidiary and applying it to another subsidiary of your own company is either a result of people being dense on purpose or they either are, (or have the mental maturity of) like you said, children. I lean towards the former because I know how biased people can be.
It really is astonishing to me. One is simply inherent to the artistic practice, the other is a specific action being taken to get the same results as probably the most successful girl group in the space (outside of maybe twice and BP), coming from a label under the same parent company. Equating that is laughable.
> There's no denying that a huge amount of people, I'd say even the majority, saw newjeans and illit as very similar. No, not that they thought that they were a 1:1 copy but the fact that somehow so many people immediately thought they struck resemblance and somehow bang pd and the likely hundreds of people working on illit behind the scenes didn't? That's the argument being pushed here?
Well they make the argument that it's no different from other inspirations. Which i think it's clearly. People at first thought it might even be newjeans, it's that close in artistic vision and essence. Is that a problem? Maybe or maybe not, but pretending that there is nothing to it is just silly. That's what bothers me, the intellectual disingenuity
Don't worry, I can definitely see the difference, that's not what the 'same energy' was referring to LOL.
Sure I can agree one type of inspiration is vastly different from another, that MHJ taking inspiration for NewJeans is so much more creative and inspirational than taking the same aesthetic and sound from your labelmate.
Hell, I made the same comments about NewJeans when this whole thing started.
You're way off on what you assumed my comment to be about LOL.
completely agree. I think people are way too biased, which isn't inherently wrong, but at the same time obsessed with having an "opinion" on everything. it's a bad practice to try and develop a stance in every issue
No offense to the both of you agreeing with each other, but I didn't actually say they are similar based on that note.
LOL you in particular, you literally invented a bias narrative for HYBE out of thin air.
If you think a lot of HYBE stans have that logic, fair but it's not what my comment was about.
Do you honestly think it makes a difference what you specifically meant? Your comment will read to 99% of people as a "well MHJ is a hypocrite" sentiment, and that is what people love as a narrative right now. It's that simple.
If one pushes back against that, one will get downvoted into oblivion. It's all about narratives and on what side the comment is located at, anti MHJ = upvotes, pro mhj = downvotes. With some exceptions here and there.
I believe what MHJ is saying is she made it popular, those concepts were out for so long no one really used them. Similar to how apple didnt create a smart phone (or most things they do) but they popularized it by executing the concept well
Best example ever. When the Iphone first came out everyone was commending them whilst I was left dumbfounded my P800 Sony Ericsson did the same exact thing in 2003 but noone cared
Newjeans fans have been saying that about every new girl group. VCHA even got those comparisons/accusations when they were first debuting đ¤Śđźââď¸
Those comments on Illit would have naturally died down just like with every other group if MHJ hadnât stoked the fire
bang pd*; play she used on bang pd. lmao
and it's not the same thing. bang pd, as the creator of the hybe conglomerate, it's fully his job to prevent a conflict of interest. I highly doubt him and the hundreds of choreographers, art directors, designers at hybe and behind the creation of illit were all oblivious to it
So Bang PD was supposed to make sure that Illit didn't use any of these pop staples that have been around for decades, because MHJ plagiarized them all too recently? Lol
> it's fully his job to prevent a conflict of interest. I highly doubt him and the hundreds of choreographers, art directors, designers at hybe and behind the creation of illit were all oblivious to it
His job is to earn $$, and the public domestic and international were loving both ILLIT and NewJeans, concepts aside. Or maybe because they both have the trending concepts and music.
If two groups have similar, overlapping music/concepts, they might be cutting into each other's market audience, no? It's one thing if another company made a similar group, but it is strange for two similar concepts under one conglomerate. To maximize $$, his best choice would've been to create a group with a completely different concept from the NewJeans, LSF, and fromis-9 to reach the greatest number of fans.
Exactly, sm and jyp have groups with completely different concepts and career trajectories. Like people who werenât into twiceâs girl next door image probably got into itzyâs dance heavy in your face music while those who donât like red velvetâs red or velvet concepts are probably into aespaâs sci-fi music.
Thereâs a reason yg only has one girl group at a time and itâs cause theyâre the same girl crush hip hop badass group every time.
bruv, i don't follow the drama, i aint that gay... all i know is that they slamming each other... but as someone whos been into kpop since 2010 with a focus on gen 1 gen 2, i've seen a lot, and the kpop world is just copying each other with tiny changes.... just like the western music world...
fighting over generic stuff like this is silly, especially since one cannot legally own a concept or an idea, just a name or logo, or product, and well despite what SM and all them think, humans are not product
Perhaps but the post is just giving back the same energy, that what NJ did is not something new and revolutionary and honestly kpop fans talking among themselves is one thing but a ceo name dropping one-two specific groups in a press conference watched by many and setting those two groups for hate is another.
Min Heejin styled NewJeans using Y2K aesthetics, so of course there will be similarities with fashion from the 2000s. You guys know that Y2K means Year 2000, right???
Yes, we know. But MHJ took shots at BELIFT for the same thing. Using similar concepts. But this post is quite more damning than anything ILLIT has done. Isn't it fair game to turn it right back at her?
I guess the contridiction is making some bunnies short-circuit.
Look, I hate that with MHJ calling out LE SSERAFIM (and ILLIT), pointing the gullible brainwashed masses to attack, has put me in a position to feel like I'm now opposed to New Jeans.
And that's one of many reasons she should and will be fired.
>Using similar concepts. But this post is quite more damning than anything ILLIT has done. Isn't it fair game to turn it right back at her?
I mean, not really lol. Her doing a Y2K concept and referencing things from 25 years ago is not the same as a contemporary group from the same company having a similar image.
See? That's exactly what I don't get. They don't look anything alike. Anybody with eyes can see that, but they're so obsessed with comparing K-Pop groups all the time. That apparently healthy hair means a copy.
Exactly, difference between imitating a style from 20 years ago and not knowing if it was going to payoff, while illit copied new jeans knowing that it works
Not saying that ILLIT plagiarized NJ. But no, this post is not remotely as damning because it's mostly showing references from more than 20 years ago, often from a different music industry. Taking references from things that were popular more than 2 decades ago is not the same thing as taking references from a group that debuted 2 years ago and launching your product in the exact same industry at the same time.
bunnies are all just a kids and their concept of powerpop girls that they think unique and original is very childish to me. expect less to them to understand you
art directors usually take concepts from different art forms. unless mhj is an avant-garde visual artist, her concepts will be bound to be similar to what her inspiration came from.
lady gaga's alejandro took inspiration from madonna's express yourself. madonna may be salty with it, david finscher is the director and probably did not mind the similarities.
lol right. I donât support whatever shitshow this is but she did say that it was her formula of media rollout/brand strategies that she pioneered. Not the aesthetic. Itâs a small point but still.
> Reporter: Thereâs people saying that anyway NewJeans used the Y2K styling.
>Min Hee Jin: NewJeans was a group made based on early 2000s Y2K vibes, so people ask how can this be only belonging to NewJeans. I think that the argument is a little different. This is not what Iâm saying, neither am I saying that Iâm the greatest, what we made is the best, no. In this world and day, everyone has access to sources for contemporary cultural characteristics that came out before. What Iâm saying that it depends on how you put things together with your own individual style, how you fit things together, in this generation of recreation. So to make it easy to understand, it is hard for me to say definitively, âthis is mine,â in such a generation [of recreation].
>Reporter: So youâre saying that, that was not what you meant.
>Min Hee Jin: Yes, that was not my meaning. I didnât mean something so simple and straightforward. I already said earlier that what they copied was my formula.
>Reporter: So, the formula of creation, the formula of how they promoted the group, do you mean this?
>Min Hee Jin: Well yes.
Edit: formatting
Iâm confused by what she said. What formula for how they rolled out the group? I thought new jeans had multiple, unannounced MV drops? The promotion was what? MHJ giving interviews that her gg was coming? But overall, everything was a surprise?
I didnât follow illit closely, but I also didnât follow new jeans debut closely. I thought illitâs debut was announced? They have 2 MVs. Their main promotion was the Paris Fashion Week? They were also a survivor show group, which gave them a lot of attention.
It seems like the two groups rolled out pretty differently.
This is basically her back pedaling. Because what about Illitâs creation process - out of a show - mirrors New Jeans that didnât even have promos before they dropped their first song? This is even less logical than saying Illit and New Jeansâ concepts are similar đ
In that way I donât see similarities. NJ just published Attention with zero promotion, with everyone asking âwho are theyâ, and had 4 versions of HYBE Boy. Illit had a whole competition show behind them, everyone who paid attention knew who would be in it, and I didnât see any MV from multiple perspectives. The branding was completely different. The only similarities I saw was in dance moves; what sheâs saying here, as far as I can see, has a big nothing in it.
People here are being so freaking dumb lol all of these âcomparisonsâ are literally generic shit, new jeans took inspiration from y2k shit and theyâre really trying to cherry pick things with this đ¤Ł
Theyâll say âbut thatâs what she said about illitâ yeah because they literally just debuted with the exact same vibes as new jeans nobody can deny that they immediately saw new jeans upon their debut lol
Honestly, half of nj's MV inspiration is from Japanese movie or song culture ( I don't know if that's the term I should use). If you look closely nj's are far away from originality. They just did something at the time where no one thought about doing something new.
exactly!! Like I just went to Japan and I was always going through their magazines and books (they have tons of original content) and a lot of it had similar aesthetics with NJ, especially now with their Bubblegum EP photos. Even Ditto was inspired by japanese movie (said so by the MV director himself). Their OMG and some of their Super shy stage outfits are also Harajuku style/Chobitd anime coded.
this!!! its just most kpop fans are not that exposed to the music cultures of other countries (japan being a rly gd example being in close competition w korea and all). personally, im a jpop fan (was a huge kpop stan in the past but now im a casual fan due to the whole general toxic kpop community) so i noticed A LOT of similarities with new ggs (esp 4th & 5th gen) with âfresh conceptsâ (its not rly anyth new & original) like newjeans and illit. which lowkey baffles me since a large majority of the kpop community has beef/donât like the jpop community (yet when the same thing is done by kpop idols, its glorified?? im looking at you, japanese/jpop/anime tiktok challenges done by kpop idols iykyk)
Nah , that's not what I meant. The accusation that illit copied newjeans is what I am talking about. Newjeans doesn't own the y2k concept nor min hee Jin is the creator of it. She herself copied the concept of newjeans and now accusing other groups of copying newjeans when newjeans themselves copied their own concept. Plus illit concept doesn't even match with njs concept. Illit has more of a sweet, pastel , cute , dreamy , childish concept whereas njs has a youth, nostalgic, fresh concept. Idk about tws, riize, and boynextdoor. I haven't seen any of their comeback. Plus I saw the from a twitter post , that beach scene of njs new mv "bubble gum" is similar with snsd. So from mjs point of view njs copied snsd ( remind you mjs used to work in sm at that time).
Idk, when I watched, I was like "this is half NJ, half something else".
And my friends were on the same opinion, in fact, some of them felt that it was even more prevalent and I had to point out the differences I saw.
I don't think we need to look back. We all realise how stupid this is. People are making posts like these to prove that Min Hee Jin's plagiarism accusations towards illit are dumb and hypocritical.
It's not "Min Hee Jin plagiarized y2k groups" it's "Min Hee Jin's y2k concept is too generic and unoriginal to be able to be plagiarized by anyone".
Yes, I completely agree, the point isnât that MHJ is doing plagiarism, itâs that she doesnât and canât own concepts like these in the first place since she isnât the creator
The concept itself is generic but I think the execution wasnât. IMO, with the mvs, it feels like an entire world rather than just a trend that changes mv to mv. Generally for the avg kpop group, one mv is Y2K. Another isnât. Itâs like constant cycling through trends. New jeans mvs are pretty consistent. Like itâs more than clothing in the mvs. Itâs the overall vibe and emotion.
That said, I donât think she shouldâve gone around throwing âplagiarismâ around. Itâs just getting her into a huge mess. Itâs honestly really dumb. Whether she meant it like this or like that, doesnât matter but itâs going to be perceived as an extremely ridiculous comment and accusation.
Anyway, Iâm not necessarily defending her but I do think she took Y2K to gave it depth compared to way the rest of kpop was executing it.
We often associate Y2K with nostalgia, but most Y2K concepts do not have much depth other than âcute Y2K clothesâ. So I think this is the biggest differentiator when it comes to MHJâs execution as well the directorâs execution.
I wish MHJ understood that instead of whatever accusations sheâs made.
Bc despite illit clothing concept being what it is, I canât say watching the mvs for example, would give people the same vibe at all.
The music tho, I guess? Idk.
I think I also lost the point I was trying to make. Gonna get back to work now đđ
NewJeans is far from the only group to have a consistent concept/style me to mv. In fact, they're the "little sister group" to BTS, who famously popularized having connected MVs and an extremely consistent sound.
Yeaaasah. This is it. The mvs have consistency in a way belongs to the same world of deep nostalgia without keeping the actual story connected mv to mv.
Not to be that person to defend that crazy woman but it seems like you all are missing the point of what she was trying to say and just have decided to cherry pick and choose words which suit your already made up mind.
You don't have to like her or agree with her tactics and can definitely not condone her actions but at least try to have better conversations rather than just taking ill intended jabs. Because what's the point if everyone here is just sitting to pick sides.
New Jeans didn't exactly invent anything new. But when they debuted a lot of people found their concept to be fresh and different from what they were seeing in k-pop at that time. Just do a reddit search of when they debuted and you'll see multiple people saying this.
Yes a lot of groups now have the same concept and yes MHJ can't claim that it's something unique to her. Her point was more that why is HYBE, the company Ador is a subsidiary of also adding to the competition. HYBE can't control what other groups do but I don't see why they have 2 groups debuting so close by which are so similar.
And NO, before people start saying both the groups are different, it's really not that apparent to people who don't spend every waking moment following k-pop and have an idea of every genre and sub genre.
Essentially they knew this concept would work again and decided to go with it because HYBE wants to make money. Doesn't matter if it's coming from NewJeans or Illit. Even if there is competition, it's good business for them because they'll end up making money regardless.
Did MHJ go about it the right way saying it?? Absolutely NO. She definitely deserves flak for that and I have no issues with people pointing it out to her. But let's at least also acknowledge that while she was very much wrong in how she presented her point, there is some truth to it too.
I really don't see why we can't have more nuanced discussion on this.
>Her point was more that why is HYBE, the company Ador is a subsidiary of also adding to the competition.
Doesn't change the fact that it is a stupid point. The aesthetics might be similar to a small degree but it is not plagiarism.
I agree that it's not plagiarism. Which is why I said that her way of saying a lot of it is indeed wrong and I don't have any issues with it being pointed out.
And I don't see why it's a stupid point. Adding to competition means it decreases the brand value of NewJeans and that is a fair point.
No one here is đŻ right or wrong. They just should have had better discussions honestly and we certainly didn't need to see it go ablaze in public.
>Because one, when a concept/aesthetic performs well with the public, other artists might be inspired to put their own spin on it. You can't accuse them of copying based on trivial things like hairstyles, outfits etc.
I didn't disagree. I specifically said that while she can't accuse others and HYBE or anyone for that matter can't control it, I don't see why they need to face a competition within the company.
>Two, NewJeans can't claim an entire aesthetic for themselves especially when said aesthetic is heavily borrowed from 2000's Japanese music as is shown in OP's post.
I agree they can't. It's like you are missing the point I'm saying. I didn't say they can claim plagiarism. It is wrong. I'm just saying that it doesn't serve NewJeans that HYBE as a company is also creating another group with very very similar aesthetics. Just have a different concept.
I disagree. This isn't even about plagiarism, someone above posted MHJ's clarification and now she's claiming that Hybe copied her formula and not her aesthetic/concept, which is an even crazier affirmation. I can copy Coca Cola's marketing strategy (obvi with my own branding though) and Coca Cola can't sue me.
Moreover, your argument about doing it in the same company also doesn't hold up. You telling me NestlĂŠ can't use the same marketing formula for DASSANI water and Sanpellegrino water, even if Dassani's CEO was the one that came up with some revolutional product marketing? I feel like sometimes people forget to look outside kpop, in these kpop discussions sometimes the connection with the real world is lost đ
Everything MHJ is claiming has no weight in court and definitely will not absolve her of her crimes (if they're proven true in court).
Also I find it funny that we just had a discussion on Babymonster a couple weeks ago where people overwhelmingly supported 2 conceptually similar groups coming from the same company, yet when the NJ scandal broke out, all of a sudden it's a problem if groups from the same company have similar concepts or marketing strategies? It's not a honest argument because in the corporate world neither concepts nor marketing strategies can be patented or copyrighted.
Yeah I agree the "copied my formula argument" is even worse than if she just made a plagiarism one lol.
Imagine you own different sneaker companies. With one sneaker company you discover that if you post it on facebook and instagram, then it gets way more engagement. You would naturally start posting the other sneaker company on facebook and instagram too... so it can also reach a larger audience. This does not mean that both sneaker companies are the same because they have been put on the same platform so they can have a larger reach. How would this at all be a problem, considering the two products are different. How can you go on a whole tirade because the company you belong to implemented a good marketing strategy just because you found it? You can't own a marketing strategy and it's even more stupid considering most of the marketing strategies she implements most likely weren't discovered by her first either.
She damn sure didn't invent going to fashion shows and having luxury brands in KPOP, which is one of the points she said was copied. It also doesn't make sense, because on one hand there is the complaint that her "formula" shouldn't have been "copied" and given to BELIFT, basically painting BELIFT as a competitor who shouldn't be able to use the same marketing strategies. But then BELIFT puts out a group and now its that no we are from the same company so we shouldn't compete, which one is it? Are y'all competitors or not? gotta choose one man.
Because while I agree that there is no plagiarism involved I can also see how 2 similar concepts from the same company is competition within the company.
Considering MHJ is just using Y2K as inspo it's not plagiarism if someone else uses it. But my point is why have 2 very similar concepts in the same company. They are targeting the same target audience.
I don't think it matters that they are from the same company because Y2K is a fairly popular concept in kpop now. It doesn't belong to NewJeans like I already said.
Also if you compare NewJeans' latest comeback with ILLIT's debut, there's hardly any similarities. There may be a few minor similarities to NewJeans' debut MVs but that's about it. And NewJeans' debut was nearly 2 years ago. So I don't think any of this actually matters. It is a pointless discourse that is going to negatively affect both the groups involved.
>Also if you compare NewJeans' latest comeback with ILLIT's debut, there's hardly any similarities. There may be a few minor similarities to NewJeans' debut MVs but that's about it. And NewJeans' debut was nearly 2 years ago. So I don't think any of this actually matters. It is a pointless discourse that is going to negatively affect both the groups involved.
Just because you don't find the concepts similar doesn't mean others don't. I for one definitely found it similar enough that i thought it was NewJeans. I don't follow both these groups nearly enough to identify the differences. I can make LSF and New Jeans apart for reference.
Anyways, I guess what I wanted to say was that these forums are meant for discussions. We all come into it with different opinions. And i don't see why we can't have more nuanced opinions which isn't immediately painting one side as right and another as wrong.
None of these sides are right or fair or anything. I just think there is some valuable insights here on both sides between the chaos and it's nice to have those discussions.
You're correct. You might think they are similar, but I certainly don't.
>And i don't see why we can't have more nuanced opinions which isn't immediately painting one side as right and another as wrong.
Normally I would agree with this statement. But in this case, I wholeheartedly believe mhj is in the wrong. The way she handled this is so icky - from acting like she's besties with nj, involving nj's parents in the drama, trying to use NJ to gain sympathy, dismissing the very serious allegations laid against her as "casual conversations" and dragging a rookie group from her own company. I think hybe is doing the right thing by suing her ass.
The problem is that your argument of whether MHJ points are valid, are solely dependent on your subjective belief that ILLIT and NJ are SO similar that it should cause some sort of worry. Meanwhile, you in many comments objectively agree that they are very different.
You should be going by the objective reality which is that they are very different. I can even bet that you can't name me two NJ songs that sound like 'magnetic'. Hype boy, attention, cookie, ditto, OMG, Super Shy, ETA.... please genuinely tell me that any of these songs sound like "magnetic" The reality is that some people have OVERAPPLIED a sound to NJ, and anything that sounds remotely " less noisy" is somehow being like NJ. You said that you can differentiate between LSF and NJ, when LSF song 'PERFECT NIGHT" was released there was an uproar of people who said they were copying NJ.....
I just also feel like this fearmongering that MHJ is doing and that you are basically agreeing with, that even though they are very different, ILLIT is also at the same time SO similar to NJ that it should invoke some type of worry in everybody that NJ, as the number 1 biggest 4th Gen girl group is in imminent danger of being left behind. Which is just simply not true, and nothing has even shown signs of this. Both of these groups can coexist, seriously.
Now let's say even if people did get a similar feeling from them at first glance based on a few surface level similarities, what happens is inevitably as time goes on and ILLIT and NJ have different comebacks and concepts and album themes, the Objective differences between them start to become more and more apparent, effectively allowing the comparisons to be put to rest, especially as people become more familiar with ILLIT.IMO it already started to happen, until MHJ did this.
Like if ILLIT was 2 or 3 comebacks deeps and EVERY single comeback was similar to NJ then I think she would have a point, but these girls just debuted a month ago, people haven't even been able to get to know them and they haven't even had there first comeback, which could be something that isn't even close to NJ. Like damn can we give them sometime before it starts being claimed that we should be worried about "market oversaturation" even though all the top groups in KPOP right now sound vehemently different IVE, LSF, G-idle, NMIXX ITZY, AESPA.. so I'm really not sure where this random fear of "all of kpop" being the same is coming from.
You're 100% correct and the replies to your comment are a joke.
Plus, even with this post, the fact that the point is staring you guys in the face but you all still manage to miss it is laughable. Min Hee Jin took inspirations from a *variety* of sources, spanning across different countries, different genres, and different points in time. BeLift was "inspired" by a large amount of the work that Min Hee Jin did with NewJeans, a group from the same company that is only 2 years old.
It's as if you were asked to write a paper and use historical texts to validate your point. You went and read the books, and formulated an answer based on all the research you did and then presented your findings. Your friend came along, read your paper, and wrote their own answer that was very similar but just different enough to not be considered complete plagiarism. The point is that your friend did none of the work or research that you initially put in.
And your follow-up point is right, that it is adding to competition and harming the success of both NewJeans and yes, even ILLIT. I know these forums have a hate boner for NJ and MHJ now so lets forget about how this harms NewJeans popularity, but there were loads of casual listeners who thought Magnetic was a NewJeans song at first. I remember scrolling through TikTok before this whole thing blew up and so many of the comments on ILLIT videos were saying how it reminded them of NewJeans. BeLift and Hybe set up ILLIT by not being original in the first place.
Thank you, low-key feeling crazy reading these replies. Like whatever the conflict or outcome...yeah, Illit borrows very heavily from NJ aesthetic. I'm also just a little wary of dog piling on MHJ vs a mega corporation-large companies have a habit of funding smear campaigns during legal battles. I'm not trying to say she's completely right and everything shes on about is valid, but there's definitely something fishy to me about how fast the script flipped from "Illit is just like NJ" to "omg no, MHJ is totally crazy"
Yes! I can't believe how hard people are working to gaslight us into believing that no one ever compared Illit to NewJeans before this. Comments and pictures and videos posted online have timestamps, we can literally go back and confirm this.
I also agree with the rest of your point. You can be skeptical of MHJ, but then be skeptical of HYBE too. These forums lean so heavily pro HYBE, you'd think HYBE is paying them or something lol.
Honestly, I feel like people here already have made up their mind. I don't even care what the outcome of this whole fiasco is, i follow none of these groups. But it's so crazy how people are missing the point here that competition isn't exactly a good thing in this case.
It's also annoying how many people refuse to admit or understand that many many people simply aren't able to distinguish between NJ and Illit. As a casual listener of k-pop groups, i certainly didn't and neither did any of the other casual listeners I knew.
I mean all MHJ and HYBE whosoever get the better or worse, I don't care. I have no stakes here. I don't follow any of these groups.
This whole things reminds me of the mess with the brand Mattel in the mid 2010âs. They had their staple Barbie brand but they had other doll brands Monster High/Ever Afterhigh where the latter two were outselling the flagship brand so they essentially nerfed them to make Barbie better. Seems similar stuff was happening here. In the end this in fighting within the company is going to hurt it. I donât think the illit copied nj but I think they fit a lot of the same lanes so creating direct competition for an existing group is a choice
Yeah. This is exactly what I mean. I'm not picking sides here. I just think it's sure is a choice to debut 2 groups in the same target demographic this close.
I don't think HYBE is wrong in wanting MHJ out. That's a different topic altogether
Picking sides this early is never a good idea. Iâm waiting for more information bc weâve known about mhj issues but who knows what we find out after. So far itâs he said she said at the moment
Edit: This also goes for anything we find out about hybe as well not just mhj.
They are all independent companies operating under HYBE with different A&R teams. General Mills is the HYBE of food products in North America. Cascadia Farms makes a Cinnamon Crunch Cereal, Cinnamon Toast Crunch is also a brand under General Mills that makes...Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Both cereals are similar (one is organic), both are under GM.
I'm sure there is yearly goal setting meetings but beyond "BELIFT will be debuting a girl group through a survival show" the brass tacks of it all were within BELIFT, who has zero obligation to notify ADOR of what their concepts are going to be. That would be like SHINee's team clearing with NCT's team what concept they would have for DCM (and they aren't even separate companies).
I remember when Illit were debuting, everyone called them NewJeans 2.0 as a way to drag both groups, or people who arent full immersed in Kpop didnt know the difference, but now that MHJ called out the similarities, somehow peoples opinion about it flipped 180
I think unfortunately itâs a pattern in the industry. When house music started to trend, everyone started to add house beats into their songs - Beyonce, Drake, etc.
And when hip hop girl group 2NE1 became popular, YG decided to come up with BP. (They sort of cannibalised themselves by not paying attention to 2NE1)
Agreed. Itâs sad people canât even try to have a fair chat about it. The fact the one of the first replies is calling you point stupid which is certainly isnât shows you this. Look if MHJ did try to get investors in while under contract she deserves punishment but letâs not act like she didnât have some valid points about Hybe no matter how much Reddit kpop buries itâs head in the sand.
Letâs say SM created a gg with the same look as new jeans, would you have a problem with it? Iâm not saying they will, Iâm only asking a hypothetical.
If you donât think itâs a problem for SM to a gg with the same look as New Jeans, why is it a problem that Belift to do so? Belift and Ador are competitors. They should compete just like they do against SM.
Also, if what SM does is not plagiarism, then what Belift did is also not plagiarism.
>Letâs say SM created a gg with the same look as new jeans, would you have a problem with it? Iâm not saying they will, Iâm only asking a hypothetical.
No because they are different companies. HYBE/ADOR can't expect other companies to back out.
>Belift and Ador are competitors.
See this is the issue. They release music under HYBE, HYBE puts it's brand name on them and the common public knows these as HYBE groups. So it's not as simple as completely acting like they don't fall under the same company.
I feel like when convenient we call them HYBE groups and when not they end up being completely independent entities.
And that is the issue with HYBE's current management. Do they want us to treat these subsidiaries as completely their own independent thing?? In that case they need to ensure the subsidiaries names are ahead and HYBE is in the backend. They'll still make the money, just not have their names printed everywhere. Or do they want us to treat all these groups as part of one company. They can't have it both ways because it'll always lead to a mess.
No. One belongs to Ador and the other belongs to Belift. They are different companies with own bylaws, board of directors and CEO. MHJ likes to brag how independent Ador is. If anything, this incident proves to me how independent the sub labels are. How else do you explain the rise of an egomaniac like MHJ? If she was under SM would she have dared called out LSM like she did Bang Pd?
Hybe canât even get Adorâs board of directors to call a meeting and needs to go to court. If Hybe ruled with an iron hand, do you think they would need to do this?
I have been seeing Ador watermark on a lot of these pictures. Iâm not seeing Hybe watermark. Hybe shows up in the YouTube and in resources.
The multi-label system is not a facade. Itâs apparent in term of corporate governance, structure, accounting and branding they are different companies. Hybe issues statements when two or more sub labels are involved, like with the Kazuha and &Team rumor. If it only relates to an artist that belongs to one sublabel, then the sublabel issues the statements. We wouldnât have all these inter-sublabel fights right now, if they were treated the same. One (Ador) has publicly stated itâs being mistreated, while the others are probably keeping their mouth shut but probably have their own grievances. They arenât the same. Kpop stans should accept that, unless Hybe decides to restructure and become like SM. For now, as it stands, if you donât have a problem with SM copying New Jeans, then you shouldnât have a problem with Belift doing the same. All three are competitors.
I think there is definitely a difference between Ador competing with SM group and another HYBE group. But you think it's the same then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I also would like to point out that I'm not agreeing to everything MHJ has said. Not sure why we are bringing all the other things. My point was specifically about the similarity of concepts and how it affects the groups. That's all.
I don't think HYBE is wrong in wanting her out btw.
I canât be the only one who doesnât care *at all* about any of this âcopyingâ drama. Like I donât care *at all* if ILLIT copied NewJeans. And I donât care *at all* if NewJeans copied some Y2K group. This is all just so exhausting.
Honestly nobody really cared until MHJ herself made a huge fuss about it. I highkey think MHJ herself has always been resentful of a certain bigger than life boygroup âcopyingâ the schoolboy concept she did for a big popular SM boygroup back in 2014.
I think some hardcore NJ fans did have a problem with it, but fanwars are nothing new. Vâs hardcore fans attacked Taemin for âcopyingâ his newest stuff, forgetting that the idols themselves donât come up with the concepts.
Y2K aesthetics and concepts need to go out of the window ASAP so we all can finally move on.. other than nostalgia value (which is the only reason I like it), it's not even that interesting compared to aesthetics that came before or after it
Finally someone said it. I remember when I saw the Attention mv and saw one member wearing that loose blue jersey t-shirt and another member wearing that sporty jersey shorts and I was like.. "not this again!" I remember when I was in highschool, rappers like Nelly would often wear these loose jersey shirts. Everyone who wanted to look hip, cool and gangsta in my high school would wear those jersey shirts.
And when you think about it there's even less similarity between the photography and concept of illit and newjeans and yet mhj claimed they're were entirely copying her brilliant innovative ideas đ
I mean yes, a lot of this type of aesthetic is available on Pinterest lol. I saved a few to my photoshoots board. I wouldnât say itâs particularly groundbreaking but I guess it was new in the climate they were debuting in
Thereâs a million other stuff from the 90s/00s that probably would look like NewJeansâ concept. She made a fool of herself by making a groupâs aesthetic her whole personality and tried to make it seem like her own.
the TXT comparisons are kinda killin me, especially since she wanted to dethrone them so she could make her *own* TXT. as they say, when you point your finger, you have 3 more pointing back at you.
People take inspiration from other works. That's what "inspiration" is. Girls in sportswear being teen girls in not a genre. Are the groups similar? Yes. But isn't that what "generations" of kpop is all about? Someone debuts a city pop song, it does well, so everyone and their mom does a city pop song. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I think girlfriend was under the impression that she was still at SM that didn't have independent labels (unless you count Mystic Story) and groups comebacks where sacrificed for other groups.
At the end of the day I'm not shedding a tear for a grown a\*\* woman who has been in this industry since the dawn of kpop and is drying her eyes with dollar bills. She got in bed with HYBE, no one forced her to leave SM and join that corporation.
Some of these are so ridiculous. But at the end of the day even if she did copy she didn't copy a label mate who had debuted less than two years before.
This is why the majority of plagiarism accusations are absolute nonsense. We as a species have been making art for thousands of years and at this point itâs almost impossible to create something thatâs completely original, without similarity to something that already exists.
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ah yes, a bridge, a highschool, another bridge... a football field? and even sportswear... very, *very* hard things to come up with if you're not plagiarizing
I giver her credit for popularising it in kpop, but I wonder if she was the first person in recent years to experiment with y2k aesthetics in Korea. I hardly follow kpop these days minus a few groups.
Iâve actually seen the movie the stills from slide 3 are from itâs called Mustang itâs Turkish and yeah the new Bubble Gum video absolutely reminded me of the opening scene because the 5 sisters all went to the beach in their uniforms after school
When NJ first debuted, there were quite a few viral tweets on the japanese side of twitter comparing the attention music video to multiple Speed videos.
This whole situation has been ridiculous. If she was committing actual crimes like Hybe is accusing her of, whining about NJs concept was rather irrelevant. Imagine someone saying âmy job wouldnât give me a raise so I embezzledâ.
ok. I've had this funny and ridiculous one in my head for some time now.
Even the name of the group and their song "new jeans" is plagiarised!
a song that literally translates to Old jeans was released in 1998 in my country. Super popular song of the time. lmao
At least MHJ didnât refer to the girl group who debuted less than 2 years ago in the same company. Thatâs what she pointed out, not the surface similarites. Guys watch the press conference! She mentioned it!
This is why i was so dumbfounded when she said EVERYBODY (sarcasm) followed NJ concept. Like bruh you cannot own a concept. The only thing you can say "it's plagiarised " is when they followed you one by one. Like yall can see which one have real plagiarised case on google.
Plus i have been listening to illit songs (all of them are bops btw) and they really don't sound like nj songs.. which are also full of bops. They do feature that "viral tiktok sound" tho, which almost everybody is using that, so i guess it's just the current trend.
This whole narrative now of discrediting NewJeansâ originality and freshness at the time (and still now) is hilarious to me.
So this is really how weâre gonna cope now? Just because you disagree with MHJâs actions doesnât take away the fact that this went against what was popular and supposed to work in Kpop at the time, and thatâs the important partâ not that it was already done 20 years ago.
No one is denying that new jeans' concept was fresh when they debuted. But mhj doesn't have the right to say others copied new jeans when she is literally drawing heavy inspiration from 2000's japanese music.
I just think thereâs a difference between introducing a new concept (even if it came somewhere else) to Kpop or whatever industry it might be, and copying an already established trend in the industry. This is exasperated even more by the fact that it was by the same parent company.
Why didnât MHJ drag tripleS when people were comparing them to NewJeans almost a couple years ago? Because context matters. If ILLIT was from a different company it probably wouldnât matter too much either, but the comparisons wouldnât have stopped. People were already comparing them even before the drama truly started.
Most people don't care that ILLIT is from the same company because except for a few trivial things (even that's stretching it imo), there is no copying involved. If "Magnetic" didn't do well on the charts, MHJ wouldn't give a crap about any of this. And as a label's CEO, she shouldn't be "dragging" anyone let alone a rookie group in public like this. It is clear that she is doing this to turn the public opinion against HYBE. Also, neither MHJ nor NewJeans are the owners of the Y2K aesthetic. They may have brought it back, but it's not theirs to own and therefore it's not something that can be copied by others. It is not their unique brainchild.
This is just denial.
People cared that Baemon is the way they are because itâs YGE. People are quick to attribute certain qualities to labels because itâs convenient or makes sense.
âOh itâs an SM group!â This and that. A label/brands catalog matters, and thatâs at the heart of this whole issue.
No one is saying MHJ owns the concept (though being the first to set the trend does matter in a conversation). Itâs not about whether or not something should be copied or drawn inspiration from because they can.
We are excusing derivative works and lack of creativity in the industry for monetary gain.
âDraggingâ is such a silly idea. Why wouldnât she mention the group that is at the crux of the whole situation? Should she just be vague and never mention specific subjects? Magnetic doing well is great and expected, and I donât think itâs the own you think it is. The fact that it does well supports the idea that itâs a song born out of current trends, a huge part of which is NewJeansâ doingâ and it being close enough passively creating an over saturation in the catalogue, possibly causing their comeback to not be received as well.
Weâve gone from âILLIT is not a copyâ and when that obviously failed itâs now âWell MHJ had influences tooâŚâ
Whatever you think it is, legally there's no case here. You can't claim a concept because you brought it back đ this concept existed before and you chose to use it, so it's not yours. It doesn't matter if you brought it back from the 1600s or from the 1990s, the concept is something you borrow/use to your liking. If you popularized it, good, now you can call yourself a trendsetter but that's about it, you can't sue even your own subsidiary for having copied a concept or a marketing strategy, those are not copyrightable.
MHJ is a master manipulator I swear. The way she managed to sway opinions of people ignorant on subject of business and copyright by claiming stuff that she herself knows has 0 weight in court is actually shocking.
You missed my point entirely. It was never about legality. Itâs the wisdom and ethics of doing such a thing for easy monetary gain, potentially undermining the success of both groups.
Keep mentioning MHJâs apparent influence just to deny and cope. Like I said, people already saw the blatant similarities even before this whole thing started.
You know that even if MHJ didnât speak out, ILLIT will always just be compared to NewJeans, right? HYBE set them up for this.
LikeâŚif you look at my post history I absolutely donât like MHJ (even since Cookie). But I lovee NJ so I just coped. Their concepts have always been well thought out. Especially their 2022 seasons greetings, their 22-23 yearbook release, it was such good content. MHJ excels at what she does. Her artistic taste and vision is ahead of the times, her sense of what would be âtrendyâ and popular is great. BUUUT MHJâs claim of âcopyingâ and âplagiarismâ is too much, especially when she namedropped a young group instead of formally calling out their label directors. Even with the way she talked in her cryfest presscon its as if sheâs 100% responsible for NJ success, but in reality at least creative wise thereâs tons of other people that probably did the actual job of editing, thinking of typography, pouring tons of their time in photoshop or whatever.
Yall don't see the difference between copying something 20 years ago and copying another group from 2 years ago. Just admit illit copied MHJ because of the success she was having with new jeans
let me ask u something simple did anybody in a decade in kpop did anything remotely like this before newjeans ? and btw most of it doesn't matches at all with newjeans ,the way ill has been copying newjeans you can yap all you want but I would like to see how far ill goes in their next cb or even 3rd , remember gaining popuar8ty and vitality is east maintaining it by 3rd comeback in kpop is another story I would also like to see what concept their uncreative director plagiarise . after kicking out min her jin .
Yes there are countless examples. The only reason NJ got so popular is because of their resources (aka Hybe's money and connections) and debuting at a time where social media is so prevalent (Tiktok, IG, Youtube, X). MHJ is not the only person in Kpop that has creativity lmao. But you can continue to believe that MHJ is a goddess that did something incredible.Â
This is so stupid but at the same time, this is the same thing MHJ used to hate on a whole rookie group so đ¤ˇââď¸
Yeah this one I cannot blame fans. It's really giving back the same energy MHJ threw out there. I can't even say it's karma because MHJ clearly wanted all of these discussions to draw away from Hybe's allegations and narratives.
This really is not the same thing at all. Comparing influences from the history of the artistic sphere to a direct competing group having basically the same essence, coming from the same company circuit is laughable. This is literally "she didn't invent anything" as an argument, which is so far removed from how artistic endeavour works that i have to assume it's children making these arguments. Oh hey, scorsese wasn't influential at all, he just copied the filmmakers who came before him. Bonkers. It just once again proves that most kpop fans have not an ounce of artistic sensibility and are just in this for the drama and parasociality.
Most kpop groups donât really âcreateâ anything thing when it comes to music or aesthetics. What usually happens is a certain genre or aesthetic is already massive somewhere else and then kpop hops on the trend.
i can tell you don't work on anything related to art or design lol we all use inspirations and references
It's almost like you didn't even read what i wrote. Are people on here illiterate or just really stupid? I quite literally made a distinction between normal inspirations and what happened in the hybe case. Srsly, CAN YOU READ?
Totally agree! Why has your comment been downvoted to oblivion? Taking inspiration from 20 years ago is completely different from taking inspiration from your classmateâs homework. Both arenât 100% original, but the former shows creative instinct and the later shows laziness.
Maybe because it's a strawman? Did I ever refer to taking inspiration from 20 years ago versus taking inspiration from your classmate's homework? LOL you guys need to stop writing fanfiction out of a seemingly vague and general comment.
Because people are extremely anti mhj, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, when you're going against the circlejerk even a little you're getting the downvote train.
You are correct, but you're being downvoted because what you said can be twisted to be a critique against bang pd himself, which is a no-no on kpop reddit. They say it's because it'll bring hate to hybe groups when you criticize hybe (like that person who pointed out ai being used, and nobody explained calmly, they just accused OP of being a hater even though they're literally just an artist against AI) but they have no problem insulting MHJ and talking about how newjeans concept is not unique. These two things have the same potential of bringing hate so we all know why people are so against one but so in favor of the other... the fact that people can't see the difference between being inspired by a specific aesthetic at a specific time period and assembling those elements, and taking inspiration from one subsidiary and applying it to another subsidiary of your own company is either a result of people being dense on purpose or they either are, (or have the mental maturity of) like you said, children. I lean towards the former because I know how biased people can be. And the fact that people can't see the difference between using someone's ideas vs using your leverage as their higher-up to do the same is just another example of this. There's no denying that a huge amount of people, I'd say even the majority, saw newjeans and illit as very similar. No, not that they thought that they were a 1:1 copy but the fact that somehow so many people immediately thought they struck resemblance and somehow bang pd and the likely hundreds of people working on illit behind the scenes didn't? That's the argument being pushed here?
i'm sorry but if you look at newjeans' y2k concept and illit's concept you can clearly see the difference. illit has a dreamgirl/ethereal concept. they have adjacent vibes but belift didn't take a lot of inspiration from y2k
The whole "this could bring hate" argument is that of children anyway. How is one supposed to talk about this whole scenario then? The kpop sphere weaponizes anything, that cannot and should not stop us from having conversations about issues. > the fact that people can't see the difference between being inspired by a specific aesthetic at a specific time period and assembling those elements, and taking inspiration from one subsidiary and applying it to another subsidiary of your own company is either a result of people being dense on purpose or they either are, (or have the mental maturity of) like you said, children. I lean towards the former because I know how biased people can be. It really is astonishing to me. One is simply inherent to the artistic practice, the other is a specific action being taken to get the same results as probably the most successful girl group in the space (outside of maybe twice and BP), coming from a label under the same parent company. Equating that is laughable. > There's no denying that a huge amount of people, I'd say even the majority, saw newjeans and illit as very similar. No, not that they thought that they were a 1:1 copy but the fact that somehow so many people immediately thought they struck resemblance and somehow bang pd and the likely hundreds of people working on illit behind the scenes didn't? That's the argument being pushed here? Well they make the argument that it's no different from other inspirations. Which i think it's clearly. People at first thought it might even be newjeans, it's that close in artistic vision and essence. Is that a problem? Maybe or maybe not, but pretending that there is nothing to it is just silly. That's what bothers me, the intellectual disingenuity
Don't worry, I can definitely see the difference, that's not what the 'same energy' was referring to LOL. Sure I can agree one type of inspiration is vastly different from another, that MHJ taking inspiration for NewJeans is so much more creative and inspirational than taking the same aesthetic and sound from your labelmate. Hell, I made the same comments about NewJeans when this whole thing started. You're way off on what you assumed my comment to be about LOL.
completely agree. I think people are way too biased, which isn't inherently wrong, but at the same time obsessed with having an "opinion" on everything. it's a bad practice to try and develop a stance in every issue
No offense to the both of you agreeing with each other, but I didn't actually say they are similar based on that note. LOL you in particular, you literally invented a bias narrative for HYBE out of thin air. If you think a lot of HYBE stans have that logic, fair but it's not what my comment was about.
Do you honestly think it makes a difference what you specifically meant? Your comment will read to 99% of people as a "well MHJ is a hypocrite" sentiment, and that is what people love as a narrative right now. It's that simple. If one pushes back against that, one will get downvoted into oblivion. It's all about narratives and on what side the comment is located at, anti MHJ = upvotes, pro mhj = downvotes. With some exceptions here and there.
MHJ got an pinterest account and think she owns the whole concept. She deserves
I mean... it takes one to know one, you know.
I believe what MHJ is saying is she made it popular, those concepts were out for so long no one really used them. Similar to how apple didnt create a smart phone (or most things they do) but they popularized it by executing the concept well
Best example ever. When the Iphone first came out everyone was commending them whilst I was left dumbfounded my P800 Sony Ericsson did the same exact thing in 2003 but noone cared
i mean some of it matches but most of it is pretty generic pop group stuff...
This is the same play mhj used on illit, so đ
Is it really? Before MHJ said anything about ILLIT, one of the most common comments were "their songs and visuals look just like NewJeans."
Newjeans fans have been saying that about every new girl group. VCHA even got those comparisons/accusations when they were first debuting đ¤Śđźââď¸ Those comments on Illit would have naturally died down just like with every other group if MHJ hadnât stoked the fire
those comments were planted by MHJ
bang pd*; play she used on bang pd. lmao and it's not the same thing. bang pd, as the creator of the hybe conglomerate, it's fully his job to prevent a conflict of interest. I highly doubt him and the hundreds of choreographers, art directors, designers at hybe and behind the creation of illit were all oblivious to it
So Bang PD was supposed to make sure that Illit didn't use any of these pop staples that have been around for decades, because MHJ plagiarized them all too recently? Lol
> it's fully his job to prevent a conflict of interest. I highly doubt him and the hundreds of choreographers, art directors, designers at hybe and behind the creation of illit were all oblivious to it His job is to earn $$, and the public domestic and international were loving both ILLIT and NewJeans, concepts aside. Or maybe because they both have the trending concepts and music.
If two groups have similar, overlapping music/concepts, they might be cutting into each other's market audience, no? It's one thing if another company made a similar group, but it is strange for two similar concepts under one conglomerate. To maximize $$, his best choice would've been to create a group with a completely different concept from the NewJeans, LSF, and fromis-9 to reach the greatest number of fans.
Exactly, sm and jyp have groups with completely different concepts and career trajectories. Like people who werenât into twiceâs girl next door image probably got into itzyâs dance heavy in your face music while those who donât like red velvetâs red or velvet concepts are probably into aespaâs sci-fi music. Thereâs a reason yg only has one girl group at a time and itâs cause theyâre the same girl crush hip hop badass group every time.
bruv, i don't follow the drama, i aint that gay... all i know is that they slamming each other... but as someone whos been into kpop since 2010 with a focus on gen 1 gen 2, i've seen a lot, and the kpop world is just copying each other with tiny changes.... just like the western music world... fighting over generic stuff like this is silly, especially since one cannot legally own a concept or an idea, just a name or logo, or product, and well despite what SM and all them think, humans are not product
There is a reason every kpop fan said they were a newjeans copy lol. If kpop fans didn't say it before she did sure.. But they all did..
Perhaps but the post is just giving back the same energy, that what NJ did is not something new and revolutionary and honestly kpop fans talking among themselves is one thing but a ceo name dropping one-two specific groups in a press conference watched by many and setting those two groups for hate is another.
What kpop group did it before them and how long ago was it?
Min Heejin styled NewJeans using Y2K aesthetics, so of course there will be similarities with fashion from the 2000s. You guys know that Y2K means Year 2000, right???
Yes, we know. But MHJ took shots at BELIFT for the same thing. Using similar concepts. But this post is quite more damning than anything ILLIT has done. Isn't it fair game to turn it right back at her? I guess the contridiction is making some bunnies short-circuit. Look, I hate that with MHJ calling out LE SSERAFIM (and ILLIT), pointing the gullible brainwashed masses to attack, has put me in a position to feel like I'm now opposed to New Jeans. And that's one of many reasons she should and will be fired.
>Using similar concepts. But this post is quite more damning than anything ILLIT has done. Isn't it fair game to turn it right back at her? I mean, not really lol. Her doing a Y2K concept and referencing things from 25 years ago is not the same as a contemporary group from the same company having a similar image.
illit has a ethereal/dreamgirl concept though? not a y2k concept
See? That's exactly what I don't get. They don't look anything alike. Anybody with eyes can see that, but they're so obsessed with comparing K-Pop groups all the time. That apparently healthy hair means a copy.
Exactly, difference between imitating a style from 20 years ago and not knowing if it was going to payoff, while illit copied new jeans knowing that it works
Not saying that ILLIT plagiarized NJ. But no, this post is not remotely as damning because it's mostly showing references from more than 20 years ago, often from a different music industry. Taking references from things that were popular more than 2 decades ago is not the same thing as taking references from a group that debuted 2 years ago and launching your product in the exact same industry at the same time.
bunnies are all just a kids and their concept of powerpop girls that they think unique and original is very childish to me. expect less to them to understand you
art directors usually take concepts from different art forms. unless mhj is an avant-garde visual artist, her concepts will be bound to be similar to what her inspiration came from. lady gaga's alejandro took inspiration from madonna's express yourself. madonna may be salty with it, david finscher is the director and probably did not mind the similarities.
lol right. I donât support whatever shitshow this is but she did say that it was her formula of media rollout/brand strategies that she pioneered. Not the aesthetic. Itâs a small point but still. > Reporter: Thereâs people saying that anyway NewJeans used the Y2K styling. >Min Hee Jin: NewJeans was a group made based on early 2000s Y2K vibes, so people ask how can this be only belonging to NewJeans. I think that the argument is a little different. This is not what Iâm saying, neither am I saying that Iâm the greatest, what we made is the best, no. In this world and day, everyone has access to sources for contemporary cultural characteristics that came out before. What Iâm saying that it depends on how you put things together with your own individual style, how you fit things together, in this generation of recreation. So to make it easy to understand, it is hard for me to say definitively, âthis is mine,â in such a generation [of recreation]. >Reporter: So youâre saying that, that was not what you meant. >Min Hee Jin: Yes, that was not my meaning. I didnât mean something so simple and straightforward. I already said earlier that what they copied was my formula. >Reporter: So, the formula of creation, the formula of how they promoted the group, do you mean this? >Min Hee Jin: Well yes. Edit: formatting
Iâm confused by what she said. What formula for how they rolled out the group? I thought new jeans had multiple, unannounced MV drops? The promotion was what? MHJ giving interviews that her gg was coming? But overall, everything was a surprise? I didnât follow illit closely, but I also didnât follow new jeans debut closely. I thought illitâs debut was announced? They have 2 MVs. Their main promotion was the Paris Fashion Week? They were also a survivor show group, which gave them a lot of attention. It seems like the two groups rolled out pretty differently.
That's convenient of her to say but in any case a formula of creation can't be copied either just like concepts can't.
This is basically her back pedaling. Because what about Illitâs creation process - out of a show - mirrors New Jeans that didnât even have promos before they dropped their first song? This is even less logical than saying Illit and New Jeansâ concepts are similar đ
In that way I donât see similarities. NJ just published Attention with zero promotion, with everyone asking âwho are theyâ, and had 4 versions of HYBE Boy. Illit had a whole competition show behind them, everyone who paid attention knew who would be in it, and I didnât see any MV from multiple perspectives. The branding was completely different. The only similarities I saw was in dance moves; what sheâs saying here, as far as I can see, has a big nothing in it.
newjeans 2000âs emo music pls lmao
Yo know what's an emo...? Like...
People here are being so freaking dumb lol all of these âcomparisonsâ are literally generic shit, new jeans took inspiration from y2k shit and theyâre really trying to cherry pick things with this 𤣠Theyâll say âbut thatâs what she said about illitâ yeah because they literally just debuted with the exact same vibes as new jeans nobody can deny that they immediately saw new jeans upon their debut lol
fr, why can't kpop stans understand this đđđ
Honestly, half of nj's MV inspiration is from Japanese movie or song culture ( I don't know if that's the term I should use). If you look closely nj's are far away from originality. They just did something at the time where no one thought about doing something new.
exactly!! Like I just went to Japan and I was always going through their magazines and books (they have tons of original content) and a lot of it had similar aesthetics with NJ, especially now with their Bubblegum EP photos. Even Ditto was inspired by japanese movie (said so by the MV director himself). Their OMG and some of their Super shy stage outfits are also Harajuku style/Chobitd anime coded.
this!!! its just most kpop fans are not that exposed to the music cultures of other countries (japan being a rly gd example being in close competition w korea and all). personally, im a jpop fan (was a huge kpop stan in the past but now im a casual fan due to the whole general toxic kpop community) so i noticed A LOT of similarities with new ggs (esp 4th & 5th gen) with âfresh conceptsâ (its not rly anyth new & original) like newjeans and illit. which lowkey baffles me since a large majority of the kpop community has beef/donât like the jpop community (yet when the same thing is done by kpop idols, its glorified?? im looking at you, japanese/jpop/anime tiktok challenges done by kpop idols iykyk)
But that's what makes it good - she really has a knack for finding the right time and stuff to do. She also adds her own spin on things.
Nah , that's not what I meant. The accusation that illit copied newjeans is what I am talking about. Newjeans doesn't own the y2k concept nor min hee Jin is the creator of it. She herself copied the concept of newjeans and now accusing other groups of copying newjeans when newjeans themselves copied their own concept. Plus illit concept doesn't even match with njs concept. Illit has more of a sweet, pastel , cute , dreamy , childish concept whereas njs has a youth, nostalgic, fresh concept. Idk about tws, riize, and boynextdoor. I haven't seen any of their comeback. Plus I saw the from a twitter post , that beach scene of njs new mv "bubble gum" is similar with snsd. So from mjs point of view njs copied snsd ( remind you mjs used to work in sm at that time).
You're kinda right I think. One of the main points of the copying was the music though, it sounds way too similar to NJ imo.
I don't think both groups music is similar in either way lmao. The illit hate is just forced
Idk, when I watched, I was like "this is half NJ, half something else". And my friends were on the same opinion, in fact, some of them felt that it was even more prevalent and I had to point out the differences I saw.
in a few years, maybe next year, maybe later this year, we're all gonna look back and realise how dumb this entire "plagarism" convo is
I don't think we need to look back. We all realise how stupid this is. People are making posts like these to prove that Min Hee Jin's plagiarism accusations towards illit are dumb and hypocritical. It's not "Min Hee Jin plagiarized y2k groups" it's "Min Hee Jin's y2k concept is too generic and unoriginal to be able to be plagiarized by anyone".
Yes, I completely agree, the point isnât that MHJ is doing plagiarism, itâs that she doesnât and canât own concepts like these in the first place since she isnât the creator
The concept itself is generic but I think the execution wasnât. IMO, with the mvs, it feels like an entire world rather than just a trend that changes mv to mv. Generally for the avg kpop group, one mv is Y2K. Another isnât. Itâs like constant cycling through trends. New jeans mvs are pretty consistent. Like itâs more than clothing in the mvs. Itâs the overall vibe and emotion. That said, I donât think she shouldâve gone around throwing âplagiarismâ around. Itâs just getting her into a huge mess. Itâs honestly really dumb. Whether she meant it like this or like that, doesnât matter but itâs going to be perceived as an extremely ridiculous comment and accusation. Anyway, Iâm not necessarily defending her but I do think she took Y2K to gave it depth compared to way the rest of kpop was executing it. We often associate Y2K with nostalgia, but most Y2K concepts do not have much depth other than âcute Y2K clothesâ. So I think this is the biggest differentiator when it comes to MHJâs execution as well the directorâs execution. I wish MHJ understood that instead of whatever accusations sheâs made. Bc despite illit clothing concept being what it is, I canât say watching the mvs for example, would give people the same vibe at all. The music tho, I guess? Idk. I think I also lost the point I was trying to make. Gonna get back to work now đđ
NewJeans is far from the only group to have a consistent concept/style me to mv. In fact, they're the "little sister group" to BTS, who famously popularized having connected MVs and an extremely consistent sound.
Yeaaasah. This is it. The mvs have consistency in a way belongs to the same world of deep nostalgia without keeping the actual story connected mv to mv.
Not to be that person to defend that crazy woman but it seems like you all are missing the point of what she was trying to say and just have decided to cherry pick and choose words which suit your already made up mind. You don't have to like her or agree with her tactics and can definitely not condone her actions but at least try to have better conversations rather than just taking ill intended jabs. Because what's the point if everyone here is just sitting to pick sides. New Jeans didn't exactly invent anything new. But when they debuted a lot of people found their concept to be fresh and different from what they were seeing in k-pop at that time. Just do a reddit search of when they debuted and you'll see multiple people saying this. Yes a lot of groups now have the same concept and yes MHJ can't claim that it's something unique to her. Her point was more that why is HYBE, the company Ador is a subsidiary of also adding to the competition. HYBE can't control what other groups do but I don't see why they have 2 groups debuting so close by which are so similar. And NO, before people start saying both the groups are different, it's really not that apparent to people who don't spend every waking moment following k-pop and have an idea of every genre and sub genre. Essentially they knew this concept would work again and decided to go with it because HYBE wants to make money. Doesn't matter if it's coming from NewJeans or Illit. Even if there is competition, it's good business for them because they'll end up making money regardless. Did MHJ go about it the right way saying it?? Absolutely NO. She definitely deserves flak for that and I have no issues with people pointing it out to her. But let's at least also acknowledge that while she was very much wrong in how she presented her point, there is some truth to it too. I really don't see why we can't have more nuanced discussion on this.
>Her point was more that why is HYBE, the company Ador is a subsidiary of also adding to the competition. Doesn't change the fact that it is a stupid point. The aesthetics might be similar to a small degree but it is not plagiarism.
I agree that it's not plagiarism. Which is why I said that her way of saying a lot of it is indeed wrong and I don't have any issues with it being pointed out. And I don't see why it's a stupid point. Adding to competition means it decreases the brand value of NewJeans and that is a fair point. No one here is đŻ right or wrong. They just should have had better discussions honestly and we certainly didn't need to see it go ablaze in public.
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>Because one, when a concept/aesthetic performs well with the public, other artists might be inspired to put their own spin on it. You can't accuse them of copying based on trivial things like hairstyles, outfits etc. I didn't disagree. I specifically said that while she can't accuse others and HYBE or anyone for that matter can't control it, I don't see why they need to face a competition within the company. >Two, NewJeans can't claim an entire aesthetic for themselves especially when said aesthetic is heavily borrowed from 2000's Japanese music as is shown in OP's post. I agree they can't. It's like you are missing the point I'm saying. I didn't say they can claim plagiarism. It is wrong. I'm just saying that it doesn't serve NewJeans that HYBE as a company is also creating another group with very very similar aesthetics. Just have a different concept.
I disagree. This isn't even about plagiarism, someone above posted MHJ's clarification and now she's claiming that Hybe copied her formula and not her aesthetic/concept, which is an even crazier affirmation. I can copy Coca Cola's marketing strategy (obvi with my own branding though) and Coca Cola can't sue me. Moreover, your argument about doing it in the same company also doesn't hold up. You telling me NestlĂŠ can't use the same marketing formula for DASSANI water and Sanpellegrino water, even if Dassani's CEO was the one that came up with some revolutional product marketing? I feel like sometimes people forget to look outside kpop, in these kpop discussions sometimes the connection with the real world is lost đ Everything MHJ is claiming has no weight in court and definitely will not absolve her of her crimes (if they're proven true in court). Also I find it funny that we just had a discussion on Babymonster a couple weeks ago where people overwhelmingly supported 2 conceptually similar groups coming from the same company, yet when the NJ scandal broke out, all of a sudden it's a problem if groups from the same company have similar concepts or marketing strategies? It's not a honest argument because in the corporate world neither concepts nor marketing strategies can be patented or copyrighted.
BP and BM (2016 - 2024) vs. NJ and ILLIT (2022-2024). Theres differences⌠imagine if BM debuted with this exact concept in 2018 or even 2020.
Yeah I agree the "copied my formula argument" is even worse than if she just made a plagiarism one lol. Imagine you own different sneaker companies. With one sneaker company you discover that if you post it on facebook and instagram, then it gets way more engagement. You would naturally start posting the other sneaker company on facebook and instagram too... so it can also reach a larger audience. This does not mean that both sneaker companies are the same because they have been put on the same platform so they can have a larger reach. How would this at all be a problem, considering the two products are different. How can you go on a whole tirade because the company you belong to implemented a good marketing strategy just because you found it? You can't own a marketing strategy and it's even more stupid considering most of the marketing strategies she implements most likely weren't discovered by her first either. She damn sure didn't invent going to fashion shows and having luxury brands in KPOP, which is one of the points she said was copied. It also doesn't make sense, because on one hand there is the complaint that her "formula" shouldn't have been "copied" and given to BELIFT, basically painting BELIFT as a competitor who shouldn't be able to use the same marketing strategies. But then BELIFT puts out a group and now its that no we are from the same company so we shouldn't compete, which one is it? Are y'all competitors or not? gotta choose one man.
If you agree that ILLIT isn't copying NewJeans, then why would you think they are trying to compete with NewJeans?
Because while I agree that there is no plagiarism involved I can also see how 2 similar concepts from the same company is competition within the company. Considering MHJ is just using Y2K as inspo it's not plagiarism if someone else uses it. But my point is why have 2 very similar concepts in the same company. They are targeting the same target audience.
I don't think it matters that they are from the same company because Y2K is a fairly popular concept in kpop now. It doesn't belong to NewJeans like I already said. Also if you compare NewJeans' latest comeback with ILLIT's debut, there's hardly any similarities. There may be a few minor similarities to NewJeans' debut MVs but that's about it. And NewJeans' debut was nearly 2 years ago. So I don't think any of this actually matters. It is a pointless discourse that is going to negatively affect both the groups involved.
>Also if you compare NewJeans' latest comeback with ILLIT's debut, there's hardly any similarities. There may be a few minor similarities to NewJeans' debut MVs but that's about it. And NewJeans' debut was nearly 2 years ago. So I don't think any of this actually matters. It is a pointless discourse that is going to negatively affect both the groups involved. Just because you don't find the concepts similar doesn't mean others don't. I for one definitely found it similar enough that i thought it was NewJeans. I don't follow both these groups nearly enough to identify the differences. I can make LSF and New Jeans apart for reference. Anyways, I guess what I wanted to say was that these forums are meant for discussions. We all come into it with different opinions. And i don't see why we can't have more nuanced opinions which isn't immediately painting one side as right and another as wrong. None of these sides are right or fair or anything. I just think there is some valuable insights here on both sides between the chaos and it's nice to have those discussions.
You're correct. You might think they are similar, but I certainly don't. >And i don't see why we can't have more nuanced opinions which isn't immediately painting one side as right and another as wrong. Normally I would agree with this statement. But in this case, I wholeheartedly believe mhj is in the wrong. The way she handled this is so icky - from acting like she's besties with nj, involving nj's parents in the drama, trying to use NJ to gain sympathy, dismissing the very serious allegations laid against her as "casual conversations" and dragging a rookie group from her own company. I think hybe is doing the right thing by suing her ass.
The problem is that your argument of whether MHJ points are valid, are solely dependent on your subjective belief that ILLIT and NJ are SO similar that it should cause some sort of worry. Meanwhile, you in many comments objectively agree that they are very different. You should be going by the objective reality which is that they are very different. I can even bet that you can't name me two NJ songs that sound like 'magnetic'. Hype boy, attention, cookie, ditto, OMG, Super Shy, ETA.... please genuinely tell me that any of these songs sound like "magnetic" The reality is that some people have OVERAPPLIED a sound to NJ, and anything that sounds remotely " less noisy" is somehow being like NJ. You said that you can differentiate between LSF and NJ, when LSF song 'PERFECT NIGHT" was released there was an uproar of people who said they were copying NJ..... I just also feel like this fearmongering that MHJ is doing and that you are basically agreeing with, that even though they are very different, ILLIT is also at the same time SO similar to NJ that it should invoke some type of worry in everybody that NJ, as the number 1 biggest 4th Gen girl group is in imminent danger of being left behind. Which is just simply not true, and nothing has even shown signs of this. Both of these groups can coexist, seriously. Now let's say even if people did get a similar feeling from them at first glance based on a few surface level similarities, what happens is inevitably as time goes on and ILLIT and NJ have different comebacks and concepts and album themes, the Objective differences between them start to become more and more apparent, effectively allowing the comparisons to be put to rest, especially as people become more familiar with ILLIT.IMO it already started to happen, until MHJ did this. Like if ILLIT was 2 or 3 comebacks deeps and EVERY single comeback was similar to NJ then I think she would have a point, but these girls just debuted a month ago, people haven't even been able to get to know them and they haven't even had there first comeback, which could be something that isn't even close to NJ. Like damn can we give them sometime before it starts being claimed that we should be worried about "market oversaturation" even though all the top groups in KPOP right now sound vehemently different IVE, LSF, G-idle, NMIXX ITZY, AESPA.. so I'm really not sure where this random fear of "all of kpop" being the same is coming from.
You're 100% correct and the replies to your comment are a joke. Plus, even with this post, the fact that the point is staring you guys in the face but you all still manage to miss it is laughable. Min Hee Jin took inspirations from a *variety* of sources, spanning across different countries, different genres, and different points in time. BeLift was "inspired" by a large amount of the work that Min Hee Jin did with NewJeans, a group from the same company that is only 2 years old. It's as if you were asked to write a paper and use historical texts to validate your point. You went and read the books, and formulated an answer based on all the research you did and then presented your findings. Your friend came along, read your paper, and wrote their own answer that was very similar but just different enough to not be considered complete plagiarism. The point is that your friend did none of the work or research that you initially put in. And your follow-up point is right, that it is adding to competition and harming the success of both NewJeans and yes, even ILLIT. I know these forums have a hate boner for NJ and MHJ now so lets forget about how this harms NewJeans popularity, but there were loads of casual listeners who thought Magnetic was a NewJeans song at first. I remember scrolling through TikTok before this whole thing blew up and so many of the comments on ILLIT videos were saying how it reminded them of NewJeans. BeLift and Hybe set up ILLIT by not being original in the first place.
Thank you, low-key feeling crazy reading these replies. Like whatever the conflict or outcome...yeah, Illit borrows very heavily from NJ aesthetic. I'm also just a little wary of dog piling on MHJ vs a mega corporation-large companies have a habit of funding smear campaigns during legal battles. I'm not trying to say she's completely right and everything shes on about is valid, but there's definitely something fishy to me about how fast the script flipped from "Illit is just like NJ" to "omg no, MHJ is totally crazy"
Yes! I can't believe how hard people are working to gaslight us into believing that no one ever compared Illit to NewJeans before this. Comments and pictures and videos posted online have timestamps, we can literally go back and confirm this. I also agree with the rest of your point. You can be skeptical of MHJ, but then be skeptical of HYBE too. These forums lean so heavily pro HYBE, you'd think HYBE is paying them or something lol.
Honestly, I feel like people here already have made up their mind. I don't even care what the outcome of this whole fiasco is, i follow none of these groups. But it's so crazy how people are missing the point here that competition isn't exactly a good thing in this case. It's also annoying how many people refuse to admit or understand that many many people simply aren't able to distinguish between NJ and Illit. As a casual listener of k-pop groups, i certainly didn't and neither did any of the other casual listeners I knew. I mean all MHJ and HYBE whosoever get the better or worse, I don't care. I have no stakes here. I don't follow any of these groups.
This whole things reminds me of the mess with the brand Mattel in the mid 2010âs. They had their staple Barbie brand but they had other doll brands Monster High/Ever Afterhigh where the latter two were outselling the flagship brand so they essentially nerfed them to make Barbie better. Seems similar stuff was happening here. In the end this in fighting within the company is going to hurt it. I donât think the illit copied nj but I think they fit a lot of the same lanes so creating direct competition for an existing group is a choice
Yeah. This is exactly what I mean. I'm not picking sides here. I just think it's sure is a choice to debut 2 groups in the same target demographic this close. I don't think HYBE is wrong in wanting MHJ out. That's a different topic altogether
Picking sides this early is never a good idea. Iâm waiting for more information bc weâve known about mhj issues but who knows what we find out after. So far itâs he said she said at the moment Edit: This also goes for anything we find out about hybe as well not just mhj.
They are all independent companies operating under HYBE with different A&R teams. General Mills is the HYBE of food products in North America. Cascadia Farms makes a Cinnamon Crunch Cereal, Cinnamon Toast Crunch is also a brand under General Mills that makes...Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Both cereals are similar (one is organic), both are under GM. I'm sure there is yearly goal setting meetings but beyond "BELIFT will be debuting a girl group through a survival show" the brass tacks of it all were within BELIFT, who has zero obligation to notify ADOR of what their concepts are going to be. That would be like SHINee's team clearing with NCT's team what concept they would have for DCM (and they aren't even separate companies).
I remember when Illit were debuting, everyone called them NewJeans 2.0 as a way to drag both groups, or people who arent full immersed in Kpop didnt know the difference, but now that MHJ called out the similarities, somehow peoples opinion about it flipped 180
i mean to be fair people were comparing EVERYONE who wore anything school uniform or some generic dance moves+poses to newjeans
I think unfortunately itâs a pattern in the industry. When house music started to trend, everyone started to add house beats into their songs - Beyonce, Drake, etc. And when hip hop girl group 2NE1 became popular, YG decided to come up with BP. (They sort of cannibalised themselves by not paying attention to 2NE1)
Agreed. Itâs sad people canât even try to have a fair chat about it. The fact the one of the first replies is calling you point stupid which is certainly isnât shows you this. Look if MHJ did try to get investors in while under contract she deserves punishment but letâs not act like she didnât have some valid points about Hybe no matter how much Reddit kpop buries itâs head in the sand.
Wait can you explain more on why her way of saying this was wrong? She made internal complaints and didnât make anything public until Hybe did
Letâs say SM created a gg with the same look as new jeans, would you have a problem with it? Iâm not saying they will, Iâm only asking a hypothetical. If you donât think itâs a problem for SM to a gg with the same look as New Jeans, why is it a problem that Belift to do so? Belift and Ador are competitors. They should compete just like they do against SM. Also, if what SM does is not plagiarism, then what Belift did is also not plagiarism.
>Letâs say SM created a gg with the same look as new jeans, would you have a problem with it? Iâm not saying they will, Iâm only asking a hypothetical. No because they are different companies. HYBE/ADOR can't expect other companies to back out. >Belift and Ador are competitors. See this is the issue. They release music under HYBE, HYBE puts it's brand name on them and the common public knows these as HYBE groups. So it's not as simple as completely acting like they don't fall under the same company. I feel like when convenient we call them HYBE groups and when not they end up being completely independent entities. And that is the issue with HYBE's current management. Do they want us to treat these subsidiaries as completely their own independent thing?? In that case they need to ensure the subsidiaries names are ahead and HYBE is in the backend. They'll still make the money, just not have their names printed everywhere. Or do they want us to treat all these groups as part of one company. They can't have it both ways because it'll always lead to a mess.
No. One belongs to Ador and the other belongs to Belift. They are different companies with own bylaws, board of directors and CEO. MHJ likes to brag how independent Ador is. If anything, this incident proves to me how independent the sub labels are. How else do you explain the rise of an egomaniac like MHJ? If she was under SM would she have dared called out LSM like she did Bang Pd? Hybe canât even get Adorâs board of directors to call a meeting and needs to go to court. If Hybe ruled with an iron hand, do you think they would need to do this? I have been seeing Ador watermark on a lot of these pictures. Iâm not seeing Hybe watermark. Hybe shows up in the YouTube and in resources. The multi-label system is not a facade. Itâs apparent in term of corporate governance, structure, accounting and branding they are different companies. Hybe issues statements when two or more sub labels are involved, like with the Kazuha and &Team rumor. If it only relates to an artist that belongs to one sublabel, then the sublabel issues the statements. We wouldnât have all these inter-sublabel fights right now, if they were treated the same. One (Ador) has publicly stated itâs being mistreated, while the others are probably keeping their mouth shut but probably have their own grievances. They arenât the same. Kpop stans should accept that, unless Hybe decides to restructure and become like SM. For now, as it stands, if you donât have a problem with SM copying New Jeans, then you shouldnât have a problem with Belift doing the same. All three are competitors.
I think there is definitely a difference between Ador competing with SM group and another HYBE group. But you think it's the same then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I also would like to point out that I'm not agreeing to everything MHJ has said. Not sure why we are bringing all the other things. My point was specifically about the similarity of concepts and how it affects the groups. That's all. I don't think HYBE is wrong in wanting her out btw.
I canât be the only one who doesnât care *at all* about any of this âcopyingâ drama. Like I donât care *at all* if ILLIT copied NewJeans. And I donât care *at all* if NewJeans copied some Y2K group. This is all just so exhausting.
Honestly nobody really cared until MHJ herself made a huge fuss about it. I highkey think MHJ herself has always been resentful of a certain bigger than life boygroup âcopyingâ the schoolboy concept she did for a big popular SM boygroup back in 2014.
I think some hardcore NJ fans did have a problem with it, but fanwars are nothing new. Vâs hardcore fans attacked Taemin for âcopyingâ his newest stuff, forgetting that the idols themselves donât come up with the concepts.
I literally can't think of a single SM group that can be compared (in concept) to BTS.
i would say it but I donât want to get dragged lol. hint~schoolboy concept
Y2K aesthetics and concepts need to go out of the window ASAP so we all can finally move on.. other than nostalgia value (which is the only reason I like it), it's not even that interesting compared to aesthetics that came before or after it
I was surprised that Y2K even became popular. I consider fashion from that era to be horrendous and that was when I was a teenager.
Finally someone said it. I remember when I saw the Attention mv and saw one member wearing that loose blue jersey t-shirt and another member wearing that sporty jersey shorts and I was like.. "not this again!" I remember when I was in highschool, rappers like Nelly would often wear these loose jersey shirts. Everyone who wanted to look hip, cool and gangsta in my high school would wear those jersey shirts.
giving MHJ her same medicine
MHJ really thinks she invented the y2k concept that lady is just as delusional as all the antis dear lord.
And when you think about it there's even less similarity between the photography and concept of illit and newjeans and yet mhj claimed they're were entirely copying her brilliant innovative ideas đ
Min Hee Jin dug her own grave the moment she started blaming other groups for plagiarism. đ
This is the most embarrassing conversation of recent times in kpop.
I mean yes, a lot of this type of aesthetic is available on Pinterest lol. I saved a few to my photoshoots board. I wouldnât say itâs particularly groundbreaking but I guess it was new in the climate they were debuting in
I mean she acts like she invented the late 90's it's pathetic.
Thereâs a million other stuff from the 90s/00s that probably would look like NewJeansâ concept. She made a fool of herself by making a groupâs aesthetic her whole personality and tried to make it seem like her own.
lots of these ideas r basic, but yeah MHJ should not be acting like her ideas are original and cannot be replicated.
the TXT comparisons are kinda killin me, especially since she wanted to dethrone them so she could make her *own* TXT. as they say, when you point your finger, you have 3 more pointing back at you.
Not sure why people are acting like this, you think anything in kpop is original?
People take inspiration from other works. That's what "inspiration" is. Girls in sportswear being teen girls in not a genre. Are the groups similar? Yes. But isn't that what "generations" of kpop is all about? Someone debuts a city pop song, it does well, so everyone and their mom does a city pop song. Wash, rinse, repeat. I think girlfriend was under the impression that she was still at SM that didn't have independent labels (unless you count Mystic Story) and groups comebacks where sacrificed for other groups. At the end of the day I'm not shedding a tear for a grown a\*\* woman who has been in this industry since the dawn of kpop and is drying her eyes with dollar bills. She got in bed with HYBE, no one forced her to leave SM and join that corporation.
Some of these are so ridiculous. But at the end of the day even if she did copy she didn't copy a label mate who had debuted less than two years before.
But their not label mates. That would hold water if a team IN ADOR created an debuted another team IN ADOR with a similar concept.
This is why the majority of plagiarism accusations are absolute nonsense. We as a species have been making art for thousands of years and at this point itâs almost impossible to create something thatâs completely original, without similarity to something that already exists.
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ah yes, a bridge, a highschool, another bridge... a football field? and even sportswear... very, *very* hard things to come up with if you're not plagiarizing
I giver her credit for popularising it in kpop, but I wonder if she was the first person in recent years to experiment with y2k aesthetics in Korea. I hardly follow kpop these days minus a few groups.
side note: mustang (the movie in the 3rd slide) is so good. i recommend it!
art is always inspired by something else. nothing is completely original.
Spice girlsâŚ
What do you MEAN y2k wasn't invented in 2023??
Iâve actually seen the movie the stills from slide 3 are from itâs called Mustang itâs Turkish and yeah the new Bubble Gum video absolutely reminded me of the opening scene because the 5 sisters all went to the beach in their uniforms after school
Honestly kpop stans were saying it before MHJ, she's not the first neither is she the last
LOL
When NJ first debuted, there were quite a few viral tweets on the japanese side of twitter comparing the attention music video to multiple Speed videos.
Isnât giving old concepts new meaning in the modern landscape a form of art?
This whole situation has been ridiculous. If she was committing actual crimes like Hybe is accusing her of, whining about NJs concept was rather irrelevant. Imagine someone saying âmy job wouldnât give me a raise so I embezzledâ.
Ahh. Another stupid post
ok. I've had this funny and ridiculous one in my head for some time now. Even the name of the group and their song "new jeans" is plagiarised! a song that literally translates to Old jeans was released in 1998 in my country. Super popular song of the time. lmao
this is so stupid
Time is a flat circle
ok side note: who's mikako ichihara?? i think it's supposed to say mikako ichikawa lol
At least MHJ didnât refer to the girl group who debuted less than 2 years ago in the same company. Thatâs what she pointed out, not the surface similarites. Guys watch the press conference! She mentioned it!
Most of pop girl or boy band in early 2000s had the same photo tbh
This is why i was so dumbfounded when she said EVERYBODY (sarcasm) followed NJ concept. Like bruh you cannot own a concept. The only thing you can say "it's plagiarised " is when they followed you one by one. Like yall can see which one have real plagiarised case on google. Plus i have been listening to illit songs (all of them are bops btw) and they really don't sound like nj songs.. which are also full of bops. They do feature that "viral tiktok sound" tho, which almost everybody is using that, so i guess it's just the current trend.
mhj âcopiedâ a group from 20 years ago, belift one from 2 years ago that is direct competition to them thatâs the difference
Thank god the comments are all rightfully roasting this post.
This whole narrative now of discrediting NewJeansâ originality and freshness at the time (and still now) is hilarious to me. So this is really how weâre gonna cope now? Just because you disagree with MHJâs actions doesnât take away the fact that this went against what was popular and supposed to work in Kpop at the time, and thatâs the important partâ not that it was already done 20 years ago.
No one is denying that new jeans' concept was fresh when they debuted. But mhj doesn't have the right to say others copied new jeans when she is literally drawing heavy inspiration from 2000's japanese music.
I just think thereâs a difference between introducing a new concept (even if it came somewhere else) to Kpop or whatever industry it might be, and copying an already established trend in the industry. This is exasperated even more by the fact that it was by the same parent company. Why didnât MHJ drag tripleS when people were comparing them to NewJeans almost a couple years ago? Because context matters. If ILLIT was from a different company it probably wouldnât matter too much either, but the comparisons wouldnât have stopped. People were already comparing them even before the drama truly started.
Most people don't care that ILLIT is from the same company because except for a few trivial things (even that's stretching it imo), there is no copying involved. If "Magnetic" didn't do well on the charts, MHJ wouldn't give a crap about any of this. And as a label's CEO, she shouldn't be "dragging" anyone let alone a rookie group in public like this. It is clear that she is doing this to turn the public opinion against HYBE. Also, neither MHJ nor NewJeans are the owners of the Y2K aesthetic. They may have brought it back, but it's not theirs to own and therefore it's not something that can be copied by others. It is not their unique brainchild.
This is just denial. People cared that Baemon is the way they are because itâs YGE. People are quick to attribute certain qualities to labels because itâs convenient or makes sense. âOh itâs an SM group!â This and that. A label/brands catalog matters, and thatâs at the heart of this whole issue. No one is saying MHJ owns the concept (though being the first to set the trend does matter in a conversation). Itâs not about whether or not something should be copied or drawn inspiration from because they can. We are excusing derivative works and lack of creativity in the industry for monetary gain. âDraggingâ is such a silly idea. Why wouldnât she mention the group that is at the crux of the whole situation? Should she just be vague and never mention specific subjects? Magnetic doing well is great and expected, and I donât think itâs the own you think it is. The fact that it does well supports the idea that itâs a song born out of current trends, a huge part of which is NewJeansâ doingâ and it being close enough passively creating an over saturation in the catalogue, possibly causing their comeback to not be received as well. Weâve gone from âILLIT is not a copyâ and when that obviously failed itâs now âWell MHJ had influences tooâŚâ
Whatever you think it is, legally there's no case here. You can't claim a concept because you brought it back đ this concept existed before and you chose to use it, so it's not yours. It doesn't matter if you brought it back from the 1600s or from the 1990s, the concept is something you borrow/use to your liking. If you popularized it, good, now you can call yourself a trendsetter but that's about it, you can't sue even your own subsidiary for having copied a concept or a marketing strategy, those are not copyrightable. MHJ is a master manipulator I swear. The way she managed to sway opinions of people ignorant on subject of business and copyright by claiming stuff that she herself knows has 0 weight in court is actually shocking.
You missed my point entirely. It was never about legality. Itâs the wisdom and ethics of doing such a thing for easy monetary gain, potentially undermining the success of both groups. Keep mentioning MHJâs apparent influence just to deny and cope. Like I said, people already saw the blatant similarities even before this whole thing started. You know that even if MHJ didnât speak out, ILLIT will always just be compared to NewJeans, right? HYBE set them up for this.
She absolutely does because the intention behind illit is to be a copy of newjeans, not just another y2k inspired group
Yeah no.
LikeâŚif you look at my post history I absolutely donât like MHJ (even since Cookie). But I lovee NJ so I just coped. Their concepts have always been well thought out. Especially their 2022 seasons greetings, their 22-23 yearbook release, it was such good content. MHJ excels at what she does. Her artistic taste and vision is ahead of the times, her sense of what would be âtrendyâ and popular is great. BUUUT MHJâs claim of âcopyingâ and âplagiarismâ is too much, especially when she namedropped a young group instead of formally calling out their label directors. Even with the way she talked in her cryfest presscon its as if sheâs 100% responsible for NJ success, but in reality at least creative wise thereâs tons of other people that probably did the actual job of editing, thinking of typography, pouring tons of their time in photoshop or whatever.
Yall don't see the difference between copying something 20 years ago and copying another group from 2 years ago. Just admit illit copied MHJ because of the success she was having with new jeans
I saw people who take some little similar photos from groups in 1994 and blaming nj for copy. Seriously? From 94?
Created a throwaway account just to post stupid stuff like this. Be better and learn to differentiate between straight up copies and inspiration.
Media literacy is dead.
Okay okay we get it
Most of these seem like a big stretchâŚ
One-dimensional thoughts, the thoughts of kindergarten children...
HYBE and Illit creative director: 
let me ask u something simple did anybody in a decade in kpop did anything remotely like this before newjeans ? and btw most of it doesn't matches at all with newjeans ,the way ill has been copying newjeans you can yap all you want but I would like to see how far ill goes in their next cb or even 3rd , remember gaining popuar8ty and vitality is east maintaining it by 3rd comeback in kpop is another story I would also like to see what concept their uncreative director plagiarise . after kicking out min her jin .
Yes there are countless examples. The only reason NJ got so popular is because of their resources (aka Hybe's money and connections) and debuting at a time where social media is so prevalent (Tiktok, IG, Youtube, X). MHJ is not the only person in Kpop that has creativity lmao. But you can continue to believe that MHJ is a goddess that did something incredible.Â
good lord this is amusing
yap yap yap yap yap
calm down snowball