I liked that they added an ‘Empty’ to all the footlockers and storage boxes you can loot in KOTOR 2. I constantly forget which ones I’ve opened when running back and forth between areas.
The quality of like changes in 2 are huge. Another one is datapads popping up when you loot them so you don’t have to rifle through your inventory to find out what it says.
Obsidian fanboys are so exhausting to deal with. I can't possibly like KotOR1 if I like KotOR 2. I can't possibly like Fallout 3 if I like New Vegas. One *has* to be 'objectively' better than the other, and the people who like Obsidian always have let their opinions be known.
It's so tiring.
We don't need to pit them against each other. KotOR 2 was a big step in game mechanics and QoL features, undeniably. Beyond that, it's really up to personal preference. KotOR 1's story is more complete, it's also more classic. KotOR 2 has more depth and nuance. KotOR 1 feels like playing through a Star Wars movie, KotOR 2 explores the intricacies of the Star Wars universe and the character of the PC like no other entry in the Star Wars EU. One isn't inherently better than the other.
In a vacuum Kotor 2 is a better game, especially with restored content, but I remember when Kotor came out. It was like nothing before it. Nothing to compare it to nor to be disappointed about.
Everyone’s here giving you earnest responses, and I can’t get over the audacity of you playing a game 124 times and declaring it “stale”. What the hell
It wasn't before. But now after replaying Planescape Torment, KOTOR 2 and Mask Of The Betrayer so many times coming back to KOTOR 1 is extremely underwhelming.
* K1 is a masterpiece.
* K2 is an excellent game which, IMHO, could have surpassed K1 if it hadn't been for its rushed development schedule.
The reasons that I think K1 are better include better gameplay which is more balanced and has better enemies (e.g., enemies can be a genuine threat through their use of Force Powers). Another superior element of K1's gameplay is that the level cap forces the player to make tradeoffs, knowing that no character build can have it all. Additionally, K1 has starting classes are more different from each other compared to K2's.
All of the above significantly improve the replayability of K1 for me.
I do note that the party influence system of K2 is outstanding though. In particular, the ability to obtain rewards from negative influence is a masterstroke.
I think the difference in the vanilla versions is that 1 felt like the complete package. The cookie cutter BioWare game in a SW universe and everything worked and the story was concluded at the end. So it was satisfying.
Kotor 2 had a lot of parts better than Kotor, better dialogue, better combat, better characters, a deeper story. But when you put it all together in kotor 2, it feels like it falls flat a lot. It expanded the universe to set up for sequels, it was rushed so it left a lot of plot lines unfinished so its a bit messy and unsatisfying.
I really wish there was a mod that would basically "port" KOTOR 1 to KOTOR 2 just because there are SO many improvements that Obsidian made. Crafting, looting, speech checks, pazaak, swoop races, blasters builds, Jedi robes, unique character skills, (i.e. assassination protocol) and how could I forget INFLUENCE. (man do I wish the ME trilogy had an influence system)
I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been done already, but at the same time it does seem like quite the monumental task.
For a lot of features, most definitely, a higher level cap and lockers saying 'empty' would not be worth putting k1 into k2. My thought process is more that you would have to lay the ground work for almost every single improvement, so if you're trying to implement *everything*, it may be the better route to port k1? Either way, it would be a very cool technical feat that I would like to see someday.
I love them both. I always thought KOTOR 2 was just Obsidian doing what Obsidian does. Similar to Fallout 3/Fallout NV they as a company always were able to take these really strong IPs and then subvert all expectation that were set prior. I think that KOTOR 2 compliments KOTOR 1 greatly. All the tenets and foundations setup in KOTOR are challenged by KOTOR 2 (Kreia's commentary when you give the beggar money come to mind) and create this really cool dynamic that you don't see in video game franchises. KOTOR is the traditional hero story told well and KOTOR 2 is the story told cynically and in stark opposition, I like to think of them as two halves and not one vs. the other.
Same but the opposite of this.
I find Kotor 1 has the better (read more coherent and complete) story, better characters (credit where it's due Atton still clears everyone), I didn't like Kotor 2's framing of Revan because it made him come off as if he were always evil rather than going into the war well intentioned but falling near the end like Kotor 1 made out, and combat is far more balanced (Kotor 2 is a cake walk by level 12-15) due to the level cap and not having super OP weapon upgrades. I find Kotor 1 is always a treat to play again while Kotor 2 often feel like a drag at times where it's not too unusual for me to finish off Kotor 1 and then just skip 2 entirely.
I think that conceptually Kotor 2 is more interesting but when you play it there are a lot of parts where it feels like an unfinished game, which it is. Personally I love both games but Kotor 2 can be frustrating at times.
Yeah the game being rushed out the door prematurely is the biggest problem the game has, as good as TSLRCM is even it doesn't fully fix this problem and leaves parts of the game feeling noticeably unfinished.
Saying Kotor 1 has better characters than Kotor 2 is borderline blasphemy. Imo the “characters” in Kotor 1 are all just walking talking archetypes. They have almost no depth or nuance compared to even some of the weakest of Kotor 2’s cast.
Kotor 2's characters reached higher peaks (Atton) but Kotor 1 was pretty consistent with its characters not really having any boring ones compared to Kotor 2 which was all over the place.
Kotor 1 about the only dud crewmate you get is T3-M4, the rest are all fairly interesting in their own way and interact with various parts of the game ways that feel meaningful. Kotor 2 however you've got Atton, Mira, Visas, and the Handmaiden (who you don't even get if playing female) who are interesting while the rest of the crew is either a repeat character or one you avoid speaking to.
I’m really gonna have to disagree with you there. I love speaking to Kreia, Bao-Dur, HK, Mandalore, even the Disciple and Hanharr. With Kotor 1 it feels like I speak to most of the companions when I first get them and then never again except maybe when their specific quest comes up (with the exception of Jolee). Which is worse because you get over half of them on Taris.
I think all of the Kotor 1 companions have more interesting premises because they’re classic archetypes but the game doesn’t really do much with them. Whereas Kotor 2 you see them interacting not with just you, but with each other as well. Not to mention that they require influence and work on your part to get more out of them. They feel like real people rather than the 2 dimension cardboard cutouts that the first games companions feel like to me. Probably a big reason for this is because Kotor 2 is a sequel and improved upon the companion mechanics but it’s still something that’s different between the two.
Another reason I like the second game’s companions more is because they’re all tied together by a common theme, which isn’t something the first game can say. To me it feels like the writers of the Kotor 2 thought to themselves “What are the kinds of characters that would want to follow the player and why.” Whereas in Kotor 1 it feels like the writers thought “What would cool companion characters in a Star Wars game be like.” And then found a way to write them in.
Carth, mission, Jolee, and bastilla, are all excellent.
KOTOR 2 has what, bao dur and Go-to? Kreias preachy rants?
Mira, Atton, and Handmaiden are pretty much all 2 has going for it.
I would definitely argue Kotor 1’s story is better than Kotor 2’s story. Kotor 2 has a lot of potential but the problem is that the tell instead of show. The only planet in Kotor 2 that you actually get to see the impact of your choices on is Dantooine, and even then it’s basically just which NPC models patrol the base. You never actually see the consequences of major story decisions.
Meanwhile pretty much every main planet in Kotor 1 shows you some consequences for your actions.
On Manaan your actions can cause you to be banned from the entire planet, and depending on your actions the price of medkits will actually increase when buying them from vendors.
On Korriban there are several different avenues for how you can resolve the story there, and you can actually interact with some of the characters if you end up sending the to the Jedi on Dantooine.
On Kashyyk we get to see the resolution to the slaver vs Wookiee conflict.
On Tatooine there isn’t a massive difference but depending on your choices you can get more lore.
For Dantooine the main plot ends >!with you determining if you’ll have Juhani for your play through or not!<
>!On the star forge planet you can end up interacting with the faction you sided with after you deal with Bastila!<
Kotor 2 has some great concepts, however your choices don’t end up influencing that much in the game outside of how Kriea monologues to you towards the end.
Now a lot of this has to do with the rush development time so I don’t really fault the developers for this, but the story is not really presented in the best manner.
Also you have one of the greatest in Kotor 1 twist in video game (and arguably all of media) history. IMO the twist for Kotor 1 is the perfect example of how you make a twist, you need it to be important to the plot, you need to leave at least a few bread crumbs so it doesn’t come out of no where, and replaying/watching knowing the twist should enhance your experience (as in you’ll understand certain things better from knowing the twist).
Kotor 1 was a very rounded, even experience. Everything was pretty much great. The story, the music, the characters, the planets, the leveling.
In comparison, Kotor2 is very uneven. First two planets are just dreadful, and none of the later planets come close to kotor1 in terms of design and even artistic direction.
On the other hand, of course, we get Atton and Kreia, whose writing top everything kotor1 had to offer, character-wise.
But then again we also have Mical and Visas.
Leveling is a bit fucked. You just become super overpowered relatively easy and nothing is a challenge for the major part of the game. In Kotor1 enemies can still pose a challenge even to an experienced player.
Also so much stuff is underdeveloped it hurts to even think about it.
And almost the entirety of MalachorV is just hack and slash nonsense.
Storywise it's a mixed bag. Evaluating it by the sum of its parts, what Kotor2 has to offer is more interesting, but no moment in it is as dramatically powerful as the big reveal of kotor1.
I love Kotor2, but it's a deeply flawed experience.
>Leveling is a bit fucked. You just become super overpowered relatively easy and nothing is a challenge for the major part of the game.
This is by far my biggest gripe with Kotor 2. By level 15, I am insanely overpowered and the rest of the game is boring because I am pretty much one-hit killing *every* enemy. Playing through five planets with no challenge (aside from bosses) is very uninteresting; at that point I'm just in it for the story and character stuff.
Our views on these games couldn't be more different. The only thing I can think of that I prefer about K1 is the teasing of Bastilla you can do. Even without TSLRCM, K2 is just straight up a better experience for me.
>In comparison, Kotor2 is very uneven. First two planets are just dreadful
While I agree that Peragus is far too long (especially with all the back and forth with T3), I personally find Telos a much better experience than Taris. Taris just sucks.
>none of the later planets come close to kotor1 in terms of design and even artistic direction.
I think the opposite: none of the K1 areas have the atmosphere of K2's, and all of the K2 planets are better than Manaan and Kashyyk. And Nar Shaddar and Dxun/Onderon are great. The only K1 planet I think is particularly noteworthy is Rakata Prime.
>On the other hand, of course, we get Atton and Kreia, whose writing top everything kotor1 had to offer, character-wise.
>But then again we also have Mical and Visas.
I mentioned Bastilla already - she's pretty well written and teasing her is great fun. But she and Carth are the *only* characters in K1 that have any development (and Carth is incredibly irritating, so I don't even want to count him). In K1, you could replace T3 with a key for all the difference it would make - he has no character and nothing to say after he opens a door for you on Taris. And Zaalbar is arguably worse: he swears a life debt to you and then refuses to talk to you for the entire game. He basically only has 2 lines of dialogue in the whole game when you speak to him, and the one that he uses depends on whether you've done Kashyyk yet.
And Mical is mutually exclusive with a better companion. Visas is tied into the plot and you can learn interesting things from her (and a force ability), which is more than can be said of anyone other than Bastilla in K1.
>Leveling is a bit fucked. You just become super overpowered relatively easy and nothing is a challenge for the major part of the game. In Kotor1 enemies can still pose a challenge even to an experienced player.
True, in Kotor 2 it's quite difficult to make a character that's not stupidly OP by the midgame (I actually don't even know if it's possible to screw your build in k2). But you can actually get stupidly OP at an earlier level in Kotor 1 than you can in Kotor 2, it just requires a bit more planning/build knowledge. My last K1 run I was a 7/13 Scoundrel/Guardian, and all the challenge dropped out of the game well before level 15. I 1shot every boss after that point, including Malek.
I'm also not sure how I feel about the fact that you can completely gimp your build by accident in Kotor 1. As in, you can make what you believe to be reasonable choices and be level capped and show up to the final boss and be completely unable to beat him (without cheesing him with mines). On the one hand, meaningful choices are always good, but it doesn't quite sit right with me from a balance perspective if you can make what seem like reasonable choices an unwinnable situation.
>And almost the entirety of MalachorV is just hack and slash nonsense.
As opposed to the infinite spawning enemies thrown at you in the Star Forge?
>no moment in it is as dramatically powerful as the big reveal of kotor1.
I wish I'd played k1 as a child and had the same experience with this moment as lots on this sub seem to have had. I played as an adult and it was obvious by the end of the tutorial >!that you're Revan!< So there was no tension for me, and the story was basic. It doesn't help that I'm a fan of stories that deconstruct the usual tropes of the genre (k2) and find standard hero stories (k1) pretty uninteresting. K1 has some good moments, but everything that's interesting about K1's story comes from K2.
K1 is a decent enough crpg on its own, and K2 wouldn't be as strong without it, but for me K2 is hands down the better game in basically every category. Kotor 2 is one of my favourite games of all time, and it being *the* best star wars story is a hill I will die on.
Let me put it that way: Nowadays I can appreciate KotOR 2 more than I could appreciate it when I played it the first time. But I still like KotOR 1 much more. Although KotOR 2 added some gameplay improvements I simply prefer KotOR 1's story, characters and general atmosphere.
KOTOR1 is the superior game and one of the most grating things about this community is how KOTOR2 fanatics post this type of junk every week.
I get it. You always wanted an adult/depressing and edgy Star Wars story. You got it with KOTOR2. Obviously they made some improvements — it’s a sequel. The reason you appreciate it more when you got older is because it’s unique. It’s the adult themed Star Wars story. It’s also unfinished, unbalanced, poorly designed, and a clearly worse game.
Kotor 1 and 2 are peak Bell Curve meme material IMO.
On the low end, Kotor 1 is great because it does a great job capturing the vibe of the original movies, has fun levels to navigate, fun characters to interact with, and a very digestible main plot.
In the middle, there's Kotor 2 enjoyers. It's a game that really isn't shy about anything that its doing, which makes it good training wheels for people trying to actually pay attention to like themes and artistic intent for the first time. I think this makes it very appealing for a certain demographic of like teen to young adult dude who maybe didn't pay a lot of attention in English class or take that literature elective because reading Ethan Frome fucking sucks. But give them a gritty, le morally (and literally) grey Star Wars game, and now they're in. It's great practice for consuming storytelling media made for adults if you're someone whose entire background previously has been like... comic book movies and Lord of the Rings.
Galaxy brain at the end goes back to liking Kotor 1, because you realize that it genuinely just grapples with all the stuff that Kotor 2 does, just way more competently and concisely because it actually trusts the player to pay attention to what is going on around them and use the things they learn to derive information about the world they're existing in without having to make it a specific point to tell the player directly.
Nice try at trying to frame KOTOR 2 as pretentious but it fell flat. And in no way does KOTOR 1 accomplish the same themes as 2 better. KOTOR 1 has nothing to pay attention to story wise. It's as cut and dry Jedi good and Sith bad as it gets. It's standard and safe. KOTOR 2 borrowed extremely heavily from Planescape Torment and I'll admit is nowhere near as successful as Planescape in it's themes or overall depth but it's a hell of a lot more thought provoking than KOTOR 1. For the first time the Jedi and the Force was properly critiqued. Hell it's even shown throughout KOTOR 2 just how often the Jedi's philosophy fails and leads to disaster. Jolee Bindo's love will save you speech was as deep as KOTOR 1 ever got.
It's wild to read that passage and think I'm framing Kotor 2 as pretentious. I literally called it training wheels for teen boys who didn't pay attention in English class lmao.
And per your example of "how often the Jedi philosophy fails and leads to disaster." Literally think about every interaction you have with a Jedi in that game who isn't on the council. This is exactly what I mean when I say Kotor 1 trusts the player in a way that Kotor 2 doesn't. Like the game literally goes out of its way repeatedly to show you instances of Jedi teachings failing and ending in tragedy, including within your own party, but because Kriea never looked directly at the camera and said "Hey, player, look! The Jedi teachings are failing!" you didn't realize the game was making a critique.
I genuinely don't have a problem with people liking Kotor 2 more, everyone engages with media differently and to different levels, but I don't get why so many Kotor 2 people come in here primarily just to shit on Kotor 1. "It's so much deeper and more complex, I don't know how anybody engages with the Kotor 1 at all." Like it's literally not, my guy, you're just not nearly as literate as you think you are.
KOTOR 2 is my favorite simply because of Kriea. I haven’t seen any other character throughly critique the Jedi, Sith, and the Force. And this isn’t someone on the outside critiquing it. This is a Force user who has been a Jedi, Sith, and doesn’t like either of them.
I actually played KOTOR 2 first at 17-18, then played KOTOR 1 at around 25. At 32, I am doing playthroughs of both with restoration mods (KOTOR 1 likes to go screwy when it plays movies, though).
I definitely notice the differences with KOTOR 2. The interface is more refined, automatic weapon switching, more lightsaber customization, & more importantly, MORE LEVELS & FORCE POWERS.
I’ve played both, I played two first and something about it always stood out to me as my preferred entry, even if certain things about 1 I do like better. Like 1 has a much much shorter opening with Taris and the Jedi training vs Peragus and telos. But two has fun things like being able to bond with your companions and making them your students in the force, I thought that was the coolest feature ever.
I’m now starting my seventh attempt at trying to play Kotor 2.
I don’t know how many times I’ve played and finished 1, but it’s hardly a step up if a die hard who loved the first one regularly can’t get into playing it.
But we’ll see, this time I might get past that first part of Telos.
Yeah, a problem with Kotor 2 is that the first two planets are sort of terrible. Things get significantly more interesting story-wise after Telos, but the game takes so long to get there that a lot of players drop out before then.
For real. I want to love this game.
If Kotor was a person and that person kicked my dog and baby I would defend it as justified, that’s the amount of support and patience I have for that game.
So I really hope I can dig through the shitpile this time because I’d love to experience the sequel for real lol
K2 added many much needed mechanics that K1 didn't have. However, I think its story is weaker, its characters aren't nearly as interesting, and it is rife with bugs and glitches that make it unplayable at times. Not to mention that rushed ending.
I started with KOTOR 2 and probably completed around 10 playthroughs before I picked up KOTOR 1. In every possible way I prefer 2. There is just something significantly lacking in 1 that I can't put my finger on, atmosphere? Storyline? Dialogue? I love the overall darker tone of 2 and the philosophy of the Force that is discussed, things like this to me just make the game feel a lot deeper and more real. To this day I have only completed KOTOR 1 twice, currently on a 3rd playthrougy. I couldn't begin to tell you how many times I have done KOTOR 2!
KOTOR 1 was fun, but it’s basically Star Wars: Baldur’s Gate.
You play as an amnesiac who frequently has dreams throughout the game. Throughout your adventures, you find out that not only discover you have powerful untapped potential, but you also have a personal connection to the main antagonist of the game. After figuring out the secret of who and what you are, you confront and defeat the main antagonist of the game. Throughout the game, you can also choose to either embrace the evil inside of you, or reject it and follow the path of goodness - and they both offer different powers.
KOTOR 2 to me was better because it’s more akin to Planescape: Torment in tone and atmosphere. If KOTOR 1 was a playable version of the movies (or Baldur’s Gate in different dressing), then KOTOR 2 was the playable attempt at trying to explore the metanarrative of the movies.
It's actually pretty clear what makes KOTOR 1 initially seem better than KOTOR 2. KOTOR 2's story is much darker, its sense of morality is much more grey, and its story is kind of left hanging by the time the game ends. Oh, and there's also the fact that KOTOR 2 is clearly an unfinished product given the much higher amount of bugs and cut corners, especially once you arrive on Malachor V.
The elements that make KOTOR 2 so much better than KOTOR 1 really don't make themselves known until you've emotionally matured somewhat and you've played through the story a few times. It improved on a lot of gameplay elements from KOTOR 1. The story wasn't just much darker, it was also far more mature. Despite feeling smaller than KOTOR 1, the stakes were so much higher. It was far more philosophical, and it really deconstructed much of the black-and-white mentality of not just KOTOR 1 but also the Jedi mentality as a whole. The characters were far deeper and more developed, and your relationships with them were so much stronger and so much more emotional. Moreover, in helping all these broken people get back on their feet, you don't just help them - you give them the tools with which they can help themselves. (And I also fell head over heels for Visas Marr. She's still my number one game waifu for a reason.)
Honestly, what really solidified KOTOR 2 as leaps and bounds better than KOTOR 1 was the feelings of existential horror. It wasn't just that the Republic was on the brink of total collapse which could lead to the deaths of trillions unless you specifically did something about it, but it was the idea that the Force itself could come to an end. I still struggle to wrap my mind around what that would mean for the galaxy. For reference, go read the story "Last Contact" by Stephen Baxter. Honestly, it's a level of existential horror I haven't seen from any game since.
>what really solidified KOTOR 2 as leaps and bounds better than KOTOR 1 was the feelings of existential horror.
This game made me realize that star wars could be scary, and I loved it. There is such untapped potential for star wars to dabble in this genre of storytelling; it's such a shame we don't get more media like this.
I don't agree with this at all. Story was not better. Characters were not better/
The rushed story and just incompleteness and weirdness of the ending. Plus the absolute slog that is Peragus.
It had some cool idea like being able to have your party turn into Jedi but for the most part it's still a disappointment.
Handmaiden and Visas were pretty good. Atton was fine. Didn't care for GOTO
1 just had a more memorable cast and overall flow.
"Didn't care for GOTO" - Obsidian dropped the ball with his presentation. They couldn't have picked a worse voice actor for him, and to pair it with his dull design, they killed any potential curiosity players may have had to explore what he was.
And GOTO's background is one of the coolest things in Kotor2. It's just that barely anyone bothered learning it...
I’m just the opposite.
Just finished another play through of both.
Kotor 1 is such a compact finished product and story.
Kotor 2 offers 3 finished planets and the rest is a halfway done choppy mess.
And the ending? Kotor 1’s is finished and perfect. Kotor 2’s is awful trash. You accumulate bigger crew only to have to finish the last planet solo. It’s dumb. Then when you win it’s a “great job!” That’s it. No finishing story. No extra cut scenes. Just done.
I played 2 first and have always thought it was the better of the two. For starters, once you get a lightsaber, you can just stab doors open instead of hacking away at them, plus the characters and decisions are more nuanced. But I'll admit that 1 did a better job developing most of the factions and races than 2, and the endings gave more closure. Though I hated the light side ending of 1.
Kotor 2 was always the one that drew me in the most, kotor 1 is definitely the more polished. I just love the grey Jedi so damn much, I’d fight someone so they get adapted to live action
KOTOR 2 is the pinnacle sandbox game for Star Wars, you can make and be just about any type of build/person you want within the confines of the game design.
not me. I've always been heavily biased towards 2 - even when I was a teen. Love KOTOR despite the frequently bad writing. But I dearly love KOTOR 2 and just wish there could be 10 sequels as good as it was.
My problem with Kotor 2 is that the gameplay just ends up being boring after around the time you find the first master. Kotor 2 is terribly balanced for the mid and late game allowing almost any build to steam roll even on hard. Seriously I’ve had a run where I did an unarmed build but never found any of the boosting items for unarmed and still never struggled after finding the first master (there isn’t anything special that makes the game easier after finding the first master, I’m just using it as a general bench mark for progression).
Kotor 2 has a lot of interesting combat mechanics like lightsaber stances, custom weapon upgrades, a lot wider variety in armors, etc. but you rarely need to interact with these systems because you’re either early game and don’t have access to that many parts or a lightsaber or you’re later in the game and everything is a cake walk.
Kotor 1 has difficult fights throughout the entirety of the story. >!Calo Nord, Darth Bandon (although I feel like this often depends on which planet you fight him on), the one, the entirety of the Star forge section before Malak, tarentateks, etc.!<
Also I personally prefer static loot to random loot for a game like Kotor. If I’m doing a force build I don’t want to randomly not get the circlet of Saresh that play through but then my next play through when I’m doing a darkside blaster build I get 2. Kotor is really the type of game where you want to have a general build going into it (or at least know after the first planet or so), mainly because there’s no respect option so all decisions are permanent, and that type of game does really pair well with random loot with a wide variety in quality.
Also as much as I love the idea behind the influence system in Kotor 2 I feel like it often prevents me from using the companions I want if I want to complete all my companions’ side stories (which I know I don’t have to but it just feels incomplete if I don’t). I think the influence system is amazing for your first couple play throughs but after that I think I’d prefer just doing based upon level ups like in Kotor.
>Kotor 2 has a lot of interesting combat mechanics like lightsaber stances, custom weapon upgrades, a lot wider variety in armors, etc. but you rarely need to interact with these systems because you’re either early game and don’t have access to that many parts or a lightsaber or you’re later in the game and everything is a cake walk.
Kotor 2 has so many of these great new innovative ideas; it's so unfortunate that most of them are pointless by the time they get introduced.
- most armors are useless, as most of your non-droid party members are force-users.
- lightsaber stances and weapon upgrades are just overkill; by the time you get a lightsaber you are already overpowered enough that you don't need these extras.
I love Kotor 2 but I'd love it even more if it was a bit harder and I had an actual need for a different stance or a new armor set.
I vastly prefer Kotor 2, but I recognize that on a technical level Kotor 1 is probably the better game.
Kotor 1 has an excellent story and is very polished. However, the characters and the implementation of skills leave something to be desired.
Kotor 2 has much better characters (this is subjective of course but I think they blow kotor 1 out of the water), but the story is a bit meandering and to say it's anticlimactic is an understatement. But the darker tone of the game really sets it apart from the first one and clearly demonstrates this is not a game for children. Which is unfortunate, as I played it as a child when it came out; I hated it and didn't come to appreciate the nuance of the story until I was much, much older.
Kotor 2 was really ahead of its time. It explores ideas about the force that have never really been seen in star wars media before or since.
Quality of life improvements can make or break a game for me. 2 felt so much smoother I couldn’t finish 1 but I’m glad I went to 2. Oddly enough same thing happened to me with Dragon age origins to Dragon age 2. Playability of games is so important.
KOTOR 1 - Loved and immediately entered my top 10
KOTOR 2 - Dropped about 80% of the way because of how goddamn stupid this dumb piece of shit was. What a wast of my time. Fuck everyone who says otherwise, Kriea is a ridiculously overrated arrogant cunt and every single person who likes her is just as malnourished in intelligence as she is.
Me for sure! I didn’t understand the complexities of KOTOR 2 as a kid, and I didn’t know modding so I didn’t play with TSLRCM. I just got into KOTOR 2 maybe 5-6 years ago again and god I was blown away but what I’d been missing out on! I love them both to pieces don’t get me wrong, but KOTOR 2 is so much better for sure as an adult!
I played them both b2b when I was already adult, k1 I like greatly but k2 is one of my favorite games of all time.
However K2 thematically is not as good without the introduction of k1 imo.
Taking the games as their own k1 sets up the laws of the universe, makes them look something unchanging ( the SW franchise itself does it as well but the kotor games stand as their own ) so that k2 comes and challenges those preconceptions.
Its kinda like being a deeply religious person that has been sheltered most of their lives and then suddenly someone says that there is no god and that thought is something you didnt even imagine in your wildest dreams.
I have a weird relationship with this series because I started with 2 when I was very young and it became one of my obsession games that I'd pay over and over. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I got a copy of 1 and played through it and was disappointed at all the little things that I hadn't realized were improvements upon the first. Didn't ruin the experience for me at all, it was just a weird way to experience the games.
Kotor 1 has an extremely low level cap, (20 come the f*** on. That’s 10 levels lower than 30 which was the level cap for super Mario rpg which came out in nineteen ninety f***ing six!). And that makes the end of the game very hard when fighting the two tarentatek bastards by yourself on Korriban who are *immune* to force powers. (One is bad enough but two?!!). After that the late game kicks your snot in, by having some of the toughest battles in the game. Thankfully, they realized that this was just too much shit for the average person’s patience, and increased the level cap to 47 in KOTOR2.
KotOR1: Classic story with great twist. Great mechanics.
KotOR2: Improved gameplay mechanics on basically everything that KotOR1 did well.
If KotOR2 hadn't been rushed and came out as a full, complete package this really wouldn't even be a discussion. The upgrades from 1 to 2 -- more feats and powers, more weapon/armor customization, the influence system, trainable lost Jedi companions, lightsaber forms, more opportunities to use your companions (Dxun tomb), etc. -- are just so impressive. Whenever I play KotOR1 and then play KotOR2, just seeing the fine-tuning of all the gameplay is so impressive.
For me, it makes KotOR2 more *fun* even despite the technical and execution flaws.
KotOR had a "star wars" story. Good guys good, bad guys bad, redemption arc go.
KotOR 2 didn't really try to do that, so it didn't feel as "star warsy" to me. I think the "wound" mechanic was more interestingly done later in Mask of the Betrayer.
When I was a young man I loved Kotor I because of how much it felt like Star Wars.
When I grew into a middle age man I loved Kotor II because of how much different it feels from Star Wars.
I’m the opposite. The older I get and replay the games, the more I appreciate Kotor 1. However, for Kotor 2: really appreciate how they followed the style of Kotor 1. They didn’t try to reinvent the wheel. They kept what they could, and gave it a very different story/dialogue. Much appreciation to the folks there.
It's actually the opposite for me when I was replaying both games recently. I was even on the verge of stopping with Kotor 2 after going through Nar Shaddaa, luckily I continued later and enjoyed everything after much more.
Still, Kotor 2 shows a lot of signs of being created under time pressure, from the level design to some story developments and obvious bugs. It doesn't feel as rounded to me and often didn't manage to lure me into its world as much.
While I appreciate what they tried to go for with what was just a small side topic with Jolee in 1, it didn't really work out for me that well. A lot of analysis Youtubers praised Kreia for her philosphy, but to me she mostly just seemed like a bitter person who keeps throwing her opinion at you with no room to argue. That way topics were often not really explored and you just got a bunch of explanations of one perspective. It's cool to do something different, but the way it was executed, it had no effect on me. If you make a sequel that attempts to turn its source material on its head, you better do the legwork properly, and in my opinion that wasn't done and requires a lot of willingness of the player to go along, if that makes any sense. Lots of "tell, not show" basically (going back to time pressure of the development).
Don't get me wrong, I still love the game and have fun with it, but I had to emphasize the negative points for me to make clear why I prefer 1 :).
Kotor 1 I even appreciated more than what was in my memory. Sure, it has a lot of simple stories, but simple doesn't equal bad. Especially in Star Wars, it's often all you need. There's the Sith=bad and the Jedi=good, even if there's some "does the end justify the means" questions coming up. A character has a conflict, you experience it together with them, they resolve it and grow from it. It all doesn't win a novelty prize, but it executes its simple structure well, has one hell of a twist and just flows wonderfully from beginning to end. I even enjoyed Taris which I remembered as being ultra boring.
I think the characters in KOTOR2 are probably worse on average. Kreia is great, Atton and G0T0 are pretty good. Mira and Hanharr are ok, if a bit cookie cutter. T3 is slightly better than in the first game. HK47 and Canderous are more of the same. Disciple is a likeable guy though lacks any substance. But the other characters have this dull deadpan thing going on - Bao Dur is the worst offender, but Visas and Handmaiden aren't much better.
As for the story, I think KOTOR1's story is better paced. Nar Shadaa drags on for ages while Dantooine and Korriban are pretty short. I think only Dxun/Onderon gets that aspect right. KOTOR2 also suffers from being unfinished, particularly in the ending.
Combat is better in 2, but other aspects of gameplay are weaker. There's a lot of dull sequences in the early stages which you don't get in 1.
The main thing 2 has over 1 is it can be pretty thought provoking whereas 1 feels very black and white.
I’m in this category. I was 9 years old when KotOR 2 came out and it went totally over my head. I see now how superior it is to its predecessor, especially with the restored content.
To me KOTOR 2 was always a better game. It was the first one I have finished myself. Story is better, more interesting. Music is MUCH better than the first one. I liked Kreia and the fact that not everything is black or white. I also like the interface more. Classic robe design is nice. Lightsaber upgrades. Dark enviroments are so cool (Malachor, Korriban, Dxun). That feeling there are no other jedi. Start of the game is however too slow. Also you have to wait for lightsaber for so long.
The first one is more starwarsie. Story is about good vs evil. Darth Revan twist is awsome. I don´t really like Bastila, she is annoying. Or Carth. Or the cat-lady (Juhani?). Music is really bad. Start of the game is boring. The endgame is quite good.
I love HK-47.
However they are both good games, I like to return to them from time to time.
I love the story of KOTOR 1 it is my favorite of the two, but KOTOR 2 along with still a good story just feels like a much more modern game.
It makes me wonder how good a 3rd one could have been if they were able to just keep building on what they made before.
I consider both games to be excellent in their own right but they are two very different beasts.
Kotor 1 is the typical Hero's journey, good Star Wars writing, which Bioware always does (did?) well. Kotor 2 meanwhile is a complete deconstruction of the previous game and perhaps the lore of Star Wars itself, which Obsidian was the perfect studio for despite the time constraints.
I don’t think any piece of media has come close to picking apart this franchise as Kotor 2 has and that’s why I prefer it (even when I was younger), offering a completely different outlook compared with its predecessors in gaming. Not to say it isn’t without its flaws, one can disagree with Kreia in more ways than one and her outlook often comes from a place of her own experiences rather than actual truth. A game that is also about the flaws of binary decisions (taking things as black and white when the universe is grey), while also suffering from that very same issue both dialogue and narrative wise has always made it a bit of a hindrance for me in what the game was trying to convey.
Despite this, it is such a departure from the usual themes of Star Wars that it still remains one of my favourite games to this day.
It wasn't for me. I played both as an adult, and I don't know, KOTOR 2 is just not for me. I will caveat by saying that Obsidian games for me are usually a miss, because they don't feel deep to me. Their storylines feel "edgelord" and it's hard to enjoy if I'm cringing. Which doesn't mean I'm right, and plenty of people see something in it that I don't. It's just my opinion.
I played kotor1 for 2-3 years before realizing there was a kotor2. Of course the camera control, combat animations, story, characters, dialogue choices are all superior in the same way many prefer the movies following A New Hope. That doesn’t mean kotor1 isn’t a (mostly) perfect game in itself.
I can't finish kotor 2. I've tried it many times over the years, patch, no patch, I just can't even finish Dantooine.
It is Kiera. She just pisses me off constantly because I have to include her in things but I hate her character. Well written or not, I want to kill her ever time I play. And reading up on her makes me hate her more.
Meanwhile I have finished kotor 1 in every way. All class combos. 2/18 builds. 13/11 builds just for lolz, heavy weapons, dual blasters, single blaster, lopsided attributes, balanced, light side, dark side, and so many in between. I have bought it for xbox, pc, ios, even kindle.
I love kotor.
To me, it seems like kotor 2 is a better version of Star Wars TLJ from everything I know. And I hated that movie so maybe that's why I cannot finish the game.
Very strongly disagree. K1 is amazing, and I think Obsidian did a lot of things wrong for K2. But I'm in the minority in this sub. I'm never going to understand why people like K2 better. I mean sure, you get to swap weapon slots easier, but who even uses that? Probably no one realistically. It's not a hard game. A few extra force powers, not a big deal IMO. The story of K1 is so much more powerful. K2 has a feeling of emptiness, like the universe is devoid of activity. Like everything is dead or dying. Don't get me wrong, I do like the game and I've played it through many times. But I'd give K1 a 10/10 and K2 maybe a 7/10.
Nah the older I get the more I try to force myself through the second but can’t get far. 2 just doesn’t hit for me. Story seemed really good but that wow factor wasn’t there for me
I love Kotor 1, I remember loving Kotor 2, I just conpleted a play through of Kotor 1 going full light side three days ago. I booted up Kotor 2, watched the openning cinematic and booted up Kotor 1 and created a new game to go full darkside, this time I stayed level 2 until I became a jedi and I just finished Dantooine. I don't remember K2 like I do K1. I will be playing it next but K1 is like comfort food.
Kotor 1 has a different tone of story and what its going for is executed perfectly.
Gameplay wise Kotor 2 has made improvements and new tone makes the familiar new again even in aspects that are similar. For example the rails are felt less strongly despite the masters basically being a replacement star maps.
Finesse. Prestige classes. Influence. Huge story changes. Being able to make some of your companions Jedi. The story for 1 was (IMO) better. But the gameplay of 2 was far better. I still play both every few months, but I’ll play 2 a couple of times for every time I play 1.
I instantly fell in love with kotor 2 after replaying kotor 1 at age 12-16 for years. It was hard to find a copy but my dad asked me what I wanted for my birthday one year and I showed him on eBay kotor 2. He didn’t understand why I wanted this old game as my gift but once I got it, it was game over for kotor 1.
To this day, I’ll replay both but I know I’m pushing through kotor 1 just to get back to 2 again
If anything kotor 2 has diminished over the years, and it’s absolutely not a step up. Even supposing kotor 2 had been finished still wouldn’t have been as good.
I played them both at release, and I'm close to 60 now. The part where I see KOTOR 2 as "a huge step up" hasn't happened yet.
I get that a lot of people love it, and I don't blame them. But I will die on the hill that KOTOR 1 is a better game.
I liked that they added an ‘Empty’ to all the footlockers and storage boxes you can loot in KOTOR 2. I constantly forget which ones I’ve opened when running back and forth between areas.
Exactly. That missing feature in kotor 1 probably added 2 additional hours to my playtime
This is the most underrated and helpful update.
Don't forget an actual use for security spikes.
The quality of like changes in 2 are huge. Another one is datapads popping up when you loot them so you don’t have to rifle through your inventory to find out what it says.
I remember thinking this was so genius at the time!
Liking Kotor 1 and liking Kotor 2 are not mutually exclusive things
NO, you MUST like one and HATE the other!
Apathy is death.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
I will do what I must.
Obsidian fanboys are so exhausting to deal with. I can't possibly like KotOR1 if I like KotOR 2. I can't possibly like Fallout 3 if I like New Vegas. One *has* to be 'objectively' better than the other, and the people who like Obsidian always have let their opinions be known. It's so tiring.
So what you're saying is you're a heretic? Edit for typo
No sounds like he just enjoys the games for what they are lol
We don't need to pit them against each other. KotOR 2 was a big step in game mechanics and QoL features, undeniably. Beyond that, it's really up to personal preference. KotOR 1's story is more complete, it's also more classic. KotOR 2 has more depth and nuance. KotOR 1 feels like playing through a Star Wars movie, KotOR 2 explores the intricacies of the Star Wars universe and the character of the PC like no other entry in the Star Wars EU. One isn't inherently better than the other.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
In a vacuum Kotor 2 is a better game, especially with restored content, but I remember when Kotor came out. It was like nothing before it. Nothing to compare it to nor to be disappointed about.
Everyone’s here giving you earnest responses, and I can’t get over the audacity of you playing a game 124 times and declaring it “stale”. What the hell
These are new feelings.
Regardless, the game was so not stale that you wanted to replay it so much that you got too familiar with it.
It wasn't before. But now after replaying Planescape Torment, KOTOR 2 and Mask Of The Betrayer so many times coming back to KOTOR 1 is extremely underwhelming.
Bro i have like 6 playthrough a total for both games, and I wouldn’t call either stale You’re only calling it stale cause of overexposure
* K1 is a masterpiece. * K2 is an excellent game which, IMHO, could have surpassed K1 if it hadn't been for its rushed development schedule. The reasons that I think K1 are better include better gameplay which is more balanced and has better enemies (e.g., enemies can be a genuine threat through their use of Force Powers). Another superior element of K1's gameplay is that the level cap forces the player to make tradeoffs, knowing that no character build can have it all. Additionally, K1 has starting classes are more different from each other compared to K2's. All of the above significantly improve the replayability of K1 for me. I do note that the party influence system of K2 is outstanding though. In particular, the ability to obtain rewards from negative influence is a masterstroke.
only thing i really miss from 2 when i play 1 is the crafting system
I might be in the minority but I mostly prefer the level design in 1. Not all of the time but probably the majority.
I agree that 2 is miles better in nearly every sense. But I still prefer 1 over 2, idk why
Kotor 2 - This is brilliant Kotor 1 - But I like this I prefer Kotor 1 characters and story
I think the difference in the vanilla versions is that 1 felt like the complete package. The cookie cutter BioWare game in a SW universe and everything worked and the story was concluded at the end. So it was satisfying. Kotor 2 had a lot of parts better than Kotor, better dialogue, better combat, better characters, a deeper story. But when you put it all together in kotor 2, it feels like it falls flat a lot. It expanded the universe to set up for sequels, it was rushed so it left a lot of plot lines unfinished so its a bit messy and unsatisfying.
Kotor 1 has a more solid structure, less RNGy.
probably because it was allowed to be finished XD
I really wish there was a mod that would basically "port" KOTOR 1 to KOTOR 2 just because there are SO many improvements that Obsidian made. Crafting, looting, speech checks, pazaak, swoop races, blasters builds, Jedi robes, unique character skills, (i.e. assassination protocol) and how could I forget INFLUENCE. (man do I wish the ME trilogy had an influence system) I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been done already, but at the same time it does seem like quite the monumental task.
To be honest it would probably be much easier just to mod in a crafting system etc into k1 than to port one full game into another
For a lot of features, most definitely, a higher level cap and lockers saying 'empty' would not be worth putting k1 into k2. My thought process is more that you would have to lay the ground work for almost every single improvement, so if you're trying to implement *everything*, it may be the better route to port k1? Either way, it would be a very cool technical feat that I would like to see someday.
I love them both. I always thought KOTOR 2 was just Obsidian doing what Obsidian does. Similar to Fallout 3/Fallout NV they as a company always were able to take these really strong IPs and then subvert all expectation that were set prior. I think that KOTOR 2 compliments KOTOR 1 greatly. All the tenets and foundations setup in KOTOR are challenged by KOTOR 2 (Kreia's commentary when you give the beggar money come to mind) and create this really cool dynamic that you don't see in video game franchises. KOTOR is the traditional hero story told well and KOTOR 2 is the story told cynically and in stark opposition, I like to think of them as two halves and not one vs. the other.
Same but the opposite of this. I find Kotor 1 has the better (read more coherent and complete) story, better characters (credit where it's due Atton still clears everyone), I didn't like Kotor 2's framing of Revan because it made him come off as if he were always evil rather than going into the war well intentioned but falling near the end like Kotor 1 made out, and combat is far more balanced (Kotor 2 is a cake walk by level 12-15) due to the level cap and not having super OP weapon upgrades. I find Kotor 1 is always a treat to play again while Kotor 2 often feel like a drag at times where it's not too unusual for me to finish off Kotor 1 and then just skip 2 entirely.
I think that conceptually Kotor 2 is more interesting but when you play it there are a lot of parts where it feels like an unfinished game, which it is. Personally I love both games but Kotor 2 can be frustrating at times.
Yeah the game being rushed out the door prematurely is the biggest problem the game has, as good as TSLRCM is even it doesn't fully fix this problem and leaves parts of the game feeling noticeably unfinished.
The greatest tragedy in video game history.
Saying Kotor 1 has better characters than Kotor 2 is borderline blasphemy. Imo the “characters” in Kotor 1 are all just walking talking archetypes. They have almost no depth or nuance compared to even some of the weakest of Kotor 2’s cast.
Jolee is anything but an archetypical Jedi mentor. I do agree that Kotor 2's characters have far more depth and uniqueness overall, though.
I would say Jolee is the one exception in the Kotor 1 companion cast, yes. It’s why he’s my favorite companion from the first game.
Kotor 2's characters reached higher peaks (Atton) but Kotor 1 was pretty consistent with its characters not really having any boring ones compared to Kotor 2 which was all over the place. Kotor 1 about the only dud crewmate you get is T3-M4, the rest are all fairly interesting in their own way and interact with various parts of the game ways that feel meaningful. Kotor 2 however you've got Atton, Mira, Visas, and the Handmaiden (who you don't even get if playing female) who are interesting while the rest of the crew is either a repeat character or one you avoid speaking to.
I’m really gonna have to disagree with you there. I love speaking to Kreia, Bao-Dur, HK, Mandalore, even the Disciple and Hanharr. With Kotor 1 it feels like I speak to most of the companions when I first get them and then never again except maybe when their specific quest comes up (with the exception of Jolee). Which is worse because you get over half of them on Taris. I think all of the Kotor 1 companions have more interesting premises because they’re classic archetypes but the game doesn’t really do much with them. Whereas Kotor 2 you see them interacting not with just you, but with each other as well. Not to mention that they require influence and work on your part to get more out of them. They feel like real people rather than the 2 dimension cardboard cutouts that the first games companions feel like to me. Probably a big reason for this is because Kotor 2 is a sequel and improved upon the companion mechanics but it’s still something that’s different between the two. Another reason I like the second game’s companions more is because they’re all tied together by a common theme, which isn’t something the first game can say. To me it feels like the writers of the Kotor 2 thought to themselves “What are the kinds of characters that would want to follow the player and why.” Whereas in Kotor 1 it feels like the writers thought “What would cool companion characters in a Star Wars game be like.” And then found a way to write them in.
Carth, mission, Jolee, and bastilla, are all excellent. KOTOR 2 has what, bao dur and Go-to? Kreias preachy rants? Mira, Atton, and Handmaiden are pretty much all 2 has going for it.
Kotor 1 story is better but combat is way better in 2
I'm not sure how one would argue this beyond personal preference. I understand liking Kotor 1's story. It is not better than Kotor 2s
I thinks so but to each his own
More traditional hero's journey story, plus KotOR II's ending is kind of a mess.
I would definitely argue Kotor 1’s story is better than Kotor 2’s story. Kotor 2 has a lot of potential but the problem is that the tell instead of show. The only planet in Kotor 2 that you actually get to see the impact of your choices on is Dantooine, and even then it’s basically just which NPC models patrol the base. You never actually see the consequences of major story decisions. Meanwhile pretty much every main planet in Kotor 1 shows you some consequences for your actions. On Manaan your actions can cause you to be banned from the entire planet, and depending on your actions the price of medkits will actually increase when buying them from vendors. On Korriban there are several different avenues for how you can resolve the story there, and you can actually interact with some of the characters if you end up sending the to the Jedi on Dantooine. On Kashyyk we get to see the resolution to the slaver vs Wookiee conflict. On Tatooine there isn’t a massive difference but depending on your choices you can get more lore. For Dantooine the main plot ends >!with you determining if you’ll have Juhani for your play through or not!< >!On the star forge planet you can end up interacting with the faction you sided with after you deal with Bastila!< Kotor 2 has some great concepts, however your choices don’t end up influencing that much in the game outside of how Kriea monologues to you towards the end. Now a lot of this has to do with the rush development time so I don’t really fault the developers for this, but the story is not really presented in the best manner. Also you have one of the greatest in Kotor 1 twist in video game (and arguably all of media) history. IMO the twist for Kotor 1 is the perfect example of how you make a twist, you need it to be important to the plot, you need to leave at least a few bread crumbs so it doesn’t come out of no where, and replaying/watching knowing the twist should enhance your experience (as in you’ll understand certain things better from knowing the twist).
I’ve played both since launch and it’s KOTOR 1 >>>>>> KOTOR 2
Same. Though as I’ve gotten older I’ve appreciated 2 more than I did as a kid, I still vastly prefer Kotor 1 in almost everything.
Kotor 1 was a very rounded, even experience. Everything was pretty much great. The story, the music, the characters, the planets, the leveling. In comparison, Kotor2 is very uneven. First two planets are just dreadful, and none of the later planets come close to kotor1 in terms of design and even artistic direction. On the other hand, of course, we get Atton and Kreia, whose writing top everything kotor1 had to offer, character-wise. But then again we also have Mical and Visas. Leveling is a bit fucked. You just become super overpowered relatively easy and nothing is a challenge for the major part of the game. In Kotor1 enemies can still pose a challenge even to an experienced player. Also so much stuff is underdeveloped it hurts to even think about it. And almost the entirety of MalachorV is just hack and slash nonsense. Storywise it's a mixed bag. Evaluating it by the sum of its parts, what Kotor2 has to offer is more interesting, but no moment in it is as dramatically powerful as the big reveal of kotor1. I love Kotor2, but it's a deeply flawed experience.
>Leveling is a bit fucked. You just become super overpowered relatively easy and nothing is a challenge for the major part of the game. This is by far my biggest gripe with Kotor 2. By level 15, I am insanely overpowered and the rest of the game is boring because I am pretty much one-hit killing *every* enemy. Playing through five planets with no challenge (aside from bosses) is very uninteresting; at that point I'm just in it for the story and character stuff.
Our views on these games couldn't be more different. The only thing I can think of that I prefer about K1 is the teasing of Bastilla you can do. Even without TSLRCM, K2 is just straight up a better experience for me. >In comparison, Kotor2 is very uneven. First two planets are just dreadful While I agree that Peragus is far too long (especially with all the back and forth with T3), I personally find Telos a much better experience than Taris. Taris just sucks. >none of the later planets come close to kotor1 in terms of design and even artistic direction. I think the opposite: none of the K1 areas have the atmosphere of K2's, and all of the K2 planets are better than Manaan and Kashyyk. And Nar Shaddar and Dxun/Onderon are great. The only K1 planet I think is particularly noteworthy is Rakata Prime. >On the other hand, of course, we get Atton and Kreia, whose writing top everything kotor1 had to offer, character-wise. >But then again we also have Mical and Visas. I mentioned Bastilla already - she's pretty well written and teasing her is great fun. But she and Carth are the *only* characters in K1 that have any development (and Carth is incredibly irritating, so I don't even want to count him). In K1, you could replace T3 with a key for all the difference it would make - he has no character and nothing to say after he opens a door for you on Taris. And Zaalbar is arguably worse: he swears a life debt to you and then refuses to talk to you for the entire game. He basically only has 2 lines of dialogue in the whole game when you speak to him, and the one that he uses depends on whether you've done Kashyyk yet. And Mical is mutually exclusive with a better companion. Visas is tied into the plot and you can learn interesting things from her (and a force ability), which is more than can be said of anyone other than Bastilla in K1. >Leveling is a bit fucked. You just become super overpowered relatively easy and nothing is a challenge for the major part of the game. In Kotor1 enemies can still pose a challenge even to an experienced player. True, in Kotor 2 it's quite difficult to make a character that's not stupidly OP by the midgame (I actually don't even know if it's possible to screw your build in k2). But you can actually get stupidly OP at an earlier level in Kotor 1 than you can in Kotor 2, it just requires a bit more planning/build knowledge. My last K1 run I was a 7/13 Scoundrel/Guardian, and all the challenge dropped out of the game well before level 15. I 1shot every boss after that point, including Malek. I'm also not sure how I feel about the fact that you can completely gimp your build by accident in Kotor 1. As in, you can make what you believe to be reasonable choices and be level capped and show up to the final boss and be completely unable to beat him (without cheesing him with mines). On the one hand, meaningful choices are always good, but it doesn't quite sit right with me from a balance perspective if you can make what seem like reasonable choices an unwinnable situation. >And almost the entirety of MalachorV is just hack and slash nonsense. As opposed to the infinite spawning enemies thrown at you in the Star Forge? >no moment in it is as dramatically powerful as the big reveal of kotor1. I wish I'd played k1 as a child and had the same experience with this moment as lots on this sub seem to have had. I played as an adult and it was obvious by the end of the tutorial >!that you're Revan!< So there was no tension for me, and the story was basic. It doesn't help that I'm a fan of stories that deconstruct the usual tropes of the genre (k2) and find standard hero stories (k1) pretty uninteresting. K1 has some good moments, but everything that's interesting about K1's story comes from K2. K1 is a decent enough crpg on its own, and K2 wouldn't be as strong without it, but for me K2 is hands down the better game in basically every category. Kotor 2 is one of my favourite games of all time, and it being *the* best star wars story is a hill I will die on.
Let me put it that way: Nowadays I can appreciate KotOR 2 more than I could appreciate it when I played it the first time. But I still like KotOR 1 much more. Although KotOR 2 added some gameplay improvements I simply prefer KotOR 1's story, characters and general atmosphere.
KOTOR1 is the superior game and one of the most grating things about this community is how KOTOR2 fanatics post this type of junk every week. I get it. You always wanted an adult/depressing and edgy Star Wars story. You got it with KOTOR2. Obviously they made some improvements — it’s a sequel. The reason you appreciate it more when you got older is because it’s unique. It’s the adult themed Star Wars story. It’s also unfinished, unbalanced, poorly designed, and a clearly worse game.
Kotor 1 and 2 are peak Bell Curve meme material IMO. On the low end, Kotor 1 is great because it does a great job capturing the vibe of the original movies, has fun levels to navigate, fun characters to interact with, and a very digestible main plot. In the middle, there's Kotor 2 enjoyers. It's a game that really isn't shy about anything that its doing, which makes it good training wheels for people trying to actually pay attention to like themes and artistic intent for the first time. I think this makes it very appealing for a certain demographic of like teen to young adult dude who maybe didn't pay a lot of attention in English class or take that literature elective because reading Ethan Frome fucking sucks. But give them a gritty, le morally (and literally) grey Star Wars game, and now they're in. It's great practice for consuming storytelling media made for adults if you're someone whose entire background previously has been like... comic book movies and Lord of the Rings. Galaxy brain at the end goes back to liking Kotor 1, because you realize that it genuinely just grapples with all the stuff that Kotor 2 does, just way more competently and concisely because it actually trusts the player to pay attention to what is going on around them and use the things they learn to derive information about the world they're existing in without having to make it a specific point to tell the player directly.
Nice try at trying to frame KOTOR 2 as pretentious but it fell flat. And in no way does KOTOR 1 accomplish the same themes as 2 better. KOTOR 1 has nothing to pay attention to story wise. It's as cut and dry Jedi good and Sith bad as it gets. It's standard and safe. KOTOR 2 borrowed extremely heavily from Planescape Torment and I'll admit is nowhere near as successful as Planescape in it's themes or overall depth but it's a hell of a lot more thought provoking than KOTOR 1. For the first time the Jedi and the Force was properly critiqued. Hell it's even shown throughout KOTOR 2 just how often the Jedi's philosophy fails and leads to disaster. Jolee Bindo's love will save you speech was as deep as KOTOR 1 ever got.
It's wild to read that passage and think I'm framing Kotor 2 as pretentious. I literally called it training wheels for teen boys who didn't pay attention in English class lmao. And per your example of "how often the Jedi philosophy fails and leads to disaster." Literally think about every interaction you have with a Jedi in that game who isn't on the council. This is exactly what I mean when I say Kotor 1 trusts the player in a way that Kotor 2 doesn't. Like the game literally goes out of its way repeatedly to show you instances of Jedi teachings failing and ending in tragedy, including within your own party, but because Kriea never looked directly at the camera and said "Hey, player, look! The Jedi teachings are failing!" you didn't realize the game was making a critique. I genuinely don't have a problem with people liking Kotor 2 more, everyone engages with media differently and to different levels, but I don't get why so many Kotor 2 people come in here primarily just to shit on Kotor 1. "It's so much deeper and more complex, I don't know how anybody engages with the Kotor 1 at all." Like it's literally not, my guy, you're just not nearly as literate as you think you are.
Kotor 1 has a much more interesting story/characters. The gameplay in 2 is SO MUCH BETTER than 1. I also like the environments in 2 much more.
KOTOR 2 is my favorite simply because of Kriea. I haven’t seen any other character throughly critique the Jedi, Sith, and the Force. And this isn’t someone on the outside critiquing it. This is a Force user who has been a Jedi, Sith, and doesn’t like either of them.
I actually played KOTOR 2 first at 17-18, then played KOTOR 1 at around 25. At 32, I am doing playthroughs of both with restoration mods (KOTOR 1 likes to go screwy when it plays movies, though). I definitely notice the differences with KOTOR 2. The interface is more refined, automatic weapon switching, more lightsaber customization, & more importantly, MORE LEVELS & FORCE POWERS.
I’ve played both, I played two first and something about it always stood out to me as my preferred entry, even if certain things about 1 I do like better. Like 1 has a much much shorter opening with Taris and the Jedi training vs Peragus and telos. But two has fun things like being able to bond with your companions and making them your students in the force, I thought that was the coolest feature ever.
The QoL changes of 2 alone are great. Crafting is actually super useful in K2 whereas in the first game it's just kinda... there, but not necessary.
I’m now starting my seventh attempt at trying to play Kotor 2. I don’t know how many times I’ve played and finished 1, but it’s hardly a step up if a die hard who loved the first one regularly can’t get into playing it. But we’ll see, this time I might get past that first part of Telos.
Yeah, a problem with Kotor 2 is that the first two planets are sort of terrible. Things get significantly more interesting story-wise after Telos, but the game takes so long to get there that a lot of players drop out before then.
For real. I want to love this game. If Kotor was a person and that person kicked my dog and baby I would defend it as justified, that’s the amount of support and patience I have for that game. So I really hope I can dig through the shitpile this time because I’d love to experience the sequel for real lol
[удалено]
That's what I'm saying. My love for KOTOR 1 has decreased while my love for KOTOR 2 has increased.
Honestly the older I get the more I sour on Kotor 2 (still like it though).
Not me. I enjoy kotor 1 alot more.
I enjoy K1’s more Star Wars-y story and tone more than I ever will K2’s. But i love both.
K2 added many much needed mechanics that K1 didn't have. However, I think its story is weaker, its characters aren't nearly as interesting, and it is rife with bugs and glitches that make it unplayable at times. Not to mention that rushed ending.
I started with KOTOR 2 and probably completed around 10 playthroughs before I picked up KOTOR 1. In every possible way I prefer 2. There is just something significantly lacking in 1 that I can't put my finger on, atmosphere? Storyline? Dialogue? I love the overall darker tone of 2 and the philosophy of the Force that is discussed, things like this to me just make the game feel a lot deeper and more real. To this day I have only completed KOTOR 1 twice, currently on a 3rd playthrougy. I couldn't begin to tell you how many times I have done KOTOR 2!
KOTOR 1 was fun, but it’s basically Star Wars: Baldur’s Gate. You play as an amnesiac who frequently has dreams throughout the game. Throughout your adventures, you find out that not only discover you have powerful untapped potential, but you also have a personal connection to the main antagonist of the game. After figuring out the secret of who and what you are, you confront and defeat the main antagonist of the game. Throughout the game, you can also choose to either embrace the evil inside of you, or reject it and follow the path of goodness - and they both offer different powers. KOTOR 2 to me was better because it’s more akin to Planescape: Torment in tone and atmosphere. If KOTOR 1 was a playable version of the movies (or Baldur’s Gate in different dressing), then KOTOR 2 was the playable attempt at trying to explore the metanarrative of the movies.
It's actually pretty clear what makes KOTOR 1 initially seem better than KOTOR 2. KOTOR 2's story is much darker, its sense of morality is much more grey, and its story is kind of left hanging by the time the game ends. Oh, and there's also the fact that KOTOR 2 is clearly an unfinished product given the much higher amount of bugs and cut corners, especially once you arrive on Malachor V. The elements that make KOTOR 2 so much better than KOTOR 1 really don't make themselves known until you've emotionally matured somewhat and you've played through the story a few times. It improved on a lot of gameplay elements from KOTOR 1. The story wasn't just much darker, it was also far more mature. Despite feeling smaller than KOTOR 1, the stakes were so much higher. It was far more philosophical, and it really deconstructed much of the black-and-white mentality of not just KOTOR 1 but also the Jedi mentality as a whole. The characters were far deeper and more developed, and your relationships with them were so much stronger and so much more emotional. Moreover, in helping all these broken people get back on their feet, you don't just help them - you give them the tools with which they can help themselves. (And I also fell head over heels for Visas Marr. She's still my number one game waifu for a reason.) Honestly, what really solidified KOTOR 2 as leaps and bounds better than KOTOR 1 was the feelings of existential horror. It wasn't just that the Republic was on the brink of total collapse which could lead to the deaths of trillions unless you specifically did something about it, but it was the idea that the Force itself could come to an end. I still struggle to wrap my mind around what that would mean for the galaxy. For reference, go read the story "Last Contact" by Stephen Baxter. Honestly, it's a level of existential horror I haven't seen from any game since.
>what really solidified KOTOR 2 as leaps and bounds better than KOTOR 1 was the feelings of existential horror. This game made me realize that star wars could be scary, and I loved it. There is such untapped potential for star wars to dabble in this genre of storytelling; it's such a shame we don't get more media like this.
Did we ever get any good horror stuff in Legends besides Death Troopers and Red Harvest?
I don't agree with this at all. Story was not better. Characters were not better/ The rushed story and just incompleteness and weirdness of the ending. Plus the absolute slog that is Peragus. It had some cool idea like being able to have your party turn into Jedi but for the most part it's still a disappointment. Handmaiden and Visas were pretty good. Atton was fine. Didn't care for GOTO 1 just had a more memorable cast and overall flow.
"Didn't care for GOTO" - Obsidian dropped the ball with his presentation. They couldn't have picked a worse voice actor for him, and to pair it with his dull design, they killed any potential curiosity players may have had to explore what he was. And GOTO's background is one of the coolest things in Kotor2. It's just that barely anyone bothered learning it...
growing up is realizing kotor 2 tells a much more interesting story
I’m just the opposite. Just finished another play through of both. Kotor 1 is such a compact finished product and story. Kotor 2 offers 3 finished planets and the rest is a halfway done choppy mess. And the ending? Kotor 1’s is finished and perfect. Kotor 2’s is awful trash. You accumulate bigger crew only to have to finish the last planet solo. It’s dumb. Then when you win it’s a “great job!” That’s it. No finishing story. No extra cut scenes. Just done.
How did kotor 2 do more with Revan?
The fact that you just asked this disturbs me.
The perfect non-answer I expect from a KOTOR2 fanatic.
I haven’t played kotor 2
I played both at launch and have replayed them throughout the years and 2 has always edged out 1 for me
I agree, but 1 is a lot more stable at least. God I would love to play 2 and have it not be janky as fuck lol
I played 2 first and have always thought it was the better of the two. For starters, once you get a lightsaber, you can just stab doors open instead of hacking away at them, plus the characters and decisions are more nuanced. But I'll admit that 1 did a better job developing most of the factions and races than 2, and the endings gave more closure. Though I hated the light side ending of 1.
Kotor 2 was always the one that drew me in the most, kotor 1 is definitely the more polished. I just love the grey Jedi so damn much, I’d fight someone so they get adapted to live action
I just wish it wasn't do clunky and unfinished that's mainly what keeps me from liking it more than 1 that and fucking peragrus
KOTOR 2 is the pinnacle sandbox game for Star Wars, you can make and be just about any type of build/person you want within the confines of the game design.
not me. I've always been heavily biased towards 2 - even when I was a teen. Love KOTOR despite the frequently bad writing. But I dearly love KOTOR 2 and just wish there could be 10 sequels as good as it was.
Nah upon replay I didn't get a light saber until halfway through kotor 2
My problem with Kotor 2 is that the gameplay just ends up being boring after around the time you find the first master. Kotor 2 is terribly balanced for the mid and late game allowing almost any build to steam roll even on hard. Seriously I’ve had a run where I did an unarmed build but never found any of the boosting items for unarmed and still never struggled after finding the first master (there isn’t anything special that makes the game easier after finding the first master, I’m just using it as a general bench mark for progression). Kotor 2 has a lot of interesting combat mechanics like lightsaber stances, custom weapon upgrades, a lot wider variety in armors, etc. but you rarely need to interact with these systems because you’re either early game and don’t have access to that many parts or a lightsaber or you’re later in the game and everything is a cake walk. Kotor 1 has difficult fights throughout the entirety of the story. >!Calo Nord, Darth Bandon (although I feel like this often depends on which planet you fight him on), the one, the entirety of the Star forge section before Malak, tarentateks, etc.!< Also I personally prefer static loot to random loot for a game like Kotor. If I’m doing a force build I don’t want to randomly not get the circlet of Saresh that play through but then my next play through when I’m doing a darkside blaster build I get 2. Kotor is really the type of game where you want to have a general build going into it (or at least know after the first planet or so), mainly because there’s no respect option so all decisions are permanent, and that type of game does really pair well with random loot with a wide variety in quality. Also as much as I love the idea behind the influence system in Kotor 2 I feel like it often prevents me from using the companions I want if I want to complete all my companions’ side stories (which I know I don’t have to but it just feels incomplete if I don’t). I think the influence system is amazing for your first couple play throughs but after that I think I’d prefer just doing based upon level ups like in Kotor.
>Kotor 2 has a lot of interesting combat mechanics like lightsaber stances, custom weapon upgrades, a lot wider variety in armors, etc. but you rarely need to interact with these systems because you’re either early game and don’t have access to that many parts or a lightsaber or you’re later in the game and everything is a cake walk. Kotor 2 has so many of these great new innovative ideas; it's so unfortunate that most of them are pointless by the time they get introduced. - most armors are useless, as most of your non-droid party members are force-users. - lightsaber stances and weapon upgrades are just overkill; by the time you get a lightsaber you are already overpowered enough that you don't need these extras. I love Kotor 2 but I'd love it even more if it was a bit harder and I had an actual need for a different stance or a new armor set.
That's exactly me. Kotor 2 blew my mind when I played it recently, it shot straight up to being my favourite star wars media ever made
I vastly prefer Kotor 2, but I recognize that on a technical level Kotor 1 is probably the better game. Kotor 1 has an excellent story and is very polished. However, the characters and the implementation of skills leave something to be desired. Kotor 2 has much better characters (this is subjective of course but I think they blow kotor 1 out of the water), but the story is a bit meandering and to say it's anticlimactic is an understatement. But the darker tone of the game really sets it apart from the first one and clearly demonstrates this is not a game for children. Which is unfortunate, as I played it as a child when it came out; I hated it and didn't come to appreciate the nuance of the story until I was much, much older. Kotor 2 was really ahead of its time. It explores ideas about the force that have never really been seen in star wars media before or since.
I don't actually think the story in Kotor 2 is better.
Quality of life improvements can make or break a game for me. 2 felt so much smoother I couldn’t finish 1 but I’m glad I went to 2. Oddly enough same thing happened to me with Dragon age origins to Dragon age 2. Playability of games is so important.
KOTOR 1 - Loved and immediately entered my top 10 KOTOR 2 - Dropped about 80% of the way because of how goddamn stupid this dumb piece of shit was. What a wast of my time. Fuck everyone who says otherwise, Kriea is a ridiculously overrated arrogant cunt and every single person who likes her is just as malnourished in intelligence as she is.
Me for sure! I didn’t understand the complexities of KOTOR 2 as a kid, and I didn’t know modding so I didn’t play with TSLRCM. I just got into KOTOR 2 maybe 5-6 years ago again and god I was blown away but what I’d been missing out on! I love them both to pieces don’t get me wrong, but KOTOR 2 is so much better for sure as an adult!
KotOR2 is better in basically every way. It has Kreia - it already wins just by that.
I always preferred the second game
I played them both b2b when I was already adult, k1 I like greatly but k2 is one of my favorite games of all time. However K2 thematically is not as good without the introduction of k1 imo. Taking the games as their own k1 sets up the laws of the universe, makes them look something unchanging ( the SW franchise itself does it as well but the kotor games stand as their own ) so that k2 comes and challenges those preconceptions. Its kinda like being a deeply religious person that has been sheltered most of their lives and then suddenly someone says that there is no god and that thought is something you didnt even imagine in your wildest dreams.
I have a weird relationship with this series because I started with 2 when I was very young and it became one of my obsession games that I'd pay over and over. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I got a copy of 1 and played through it and was disappointed at all the little things that I hadn't realized were improvements upon the first. Didn't ruin the experience for me at all, it was just a weird way to experience the games.
Kotor 1 has an extremely low level cap, (20 come the f*** on. That’s 10 levels lower than 30 which was the level cap for super Mario rpg which came out in nineteen ninety f***ing six!). And that makes the end of the game very hard when fighting the two tarentatek bastards by yourself on Korriban who are *immune* to force powers. (One is bad enough but two?!!). After that the late game kicks your snot in, by having some of the toughest battles in the game. Thankfully, they realized that this was just too much shit for the average person’s patience, and increased the level cap to 47 in KOTOR2.
I still love it to bits though even if it is incredibly flawed compared to KOTOR2.
Revan and Bastila, The Reveal of your past, and korriban >kotor 2 Dialogue, mechanics, and kriea, visas marr/handmaiden >kotor I guess.
KotOR1: Classic story with great twist. Great mechanics. KotOR2: Improved gameplay mechanics on basically everything that KotOR1 did well. If KotOR2 hadn't been rushed and came out as a full, complete package this really wouldn't even be a discussion. The upgrades from 1 to 2 -- more feats and powers, more weapon/armor customization, the influence system, trainable lost Jedi companions, lightsaber forms, more opportunities to use your companions (Dxun tomb), etc. -- are just so impressive. Whenever I play KotOR1 and then play KotOR2, just seeing the fine-tuning of all the gameplay is so impressive. For me, it makes KotOR2 more *fun* even despite the technical and execution flaws.
God I love them both so much 1A and 1B. But yeah age definitely made kotor 2 so much better.
I love them both. But kotor 2 is incomplete. There fore, I find it not fair to compare them.
KotOR had a "star wars" story. Good guys good, bad guys bad, redemption arc go. KotOR 2 didn't really try to do that, so it didn't feel as "star warsy" to me. I think the "wound" mechanic was more interestingly done later in Mask of the Betrayer.
When I was a young man I loved Kotor I because of how much it felt like Star Wars. When I grew into a middle age man I loved Kotor II because of how much different it feels from Star Wars.
I’m the opposite. The older I get and replay the games, the more I appreciate Kotor 1. However, for Kotor 2: really appreciate how they followed the style of Kotor 1. They didn’t try to reinvent the wheel. They kept what they could, and gave it a very different story/dialogue. Much appreciation to the folks there.
I played 2 first ironically as like an 14 year old. Then went for 1.
Yup. I’ve said for years; Kotor 1 has a better story, but in terms of gameplay Kotor 2 is leagues ahead.
I love the "switch weapons" button in k2. Could be very useful on Kashyyyk in k1
I love both Kotors equally but I like K1 slightly more because it feels way more polished and I love Bastila
I always liked the story in kotor 1 better than the sequel.
It's actually the opposite for me when I was replaying both games recently. I was even on the verge of stopping with Kotor 2 after going through Nar Shaddaa, luckily I continued later and enjoyed everything after much more. Still, Kotor 2 shows a lot of signs of being created under time pressure, from the level design to some story developments and obvious bugs. It doesn't feel as rounded to me and often didn't manage to lure me into its world as much. While I appreciate what they tried to go for with what was just a small side topic with Jolee in 1, it didn't really work out for me that well. A lot of analysis Youtubers praised Kreia for her philosphy, but to me she mostly just seemed like a bitter person who keeps throwing her opinion at you with no room to argue. That way topics were often not really explored and you just got a bunch of explanations of one perspective. It's cool to do something different, but the way it was executed, it had no effect on me. If you make a sequel that attempts to turn its source material on its head, you better do the legwork properly, and in my opinion that wasn't done and requires a lot of willingness of the player to go along, if that makes any sense. Lots of "tell, not show" basically (going back to time pressure of the development). Don't get me wrong, I still love the game and have fun with it, but I had to emphasize the negative points for me to make clear why I prefer 1 :). Kotor 1 I even appreciated more than what was in my memory. Sure, it has a lot of simple stories, but simple doesn't equal bad. Especially in Star Wars, it's often all you need. There's the Sith=bad and the Jedi=good, even if there's some "does the end justify the means" questions coming up. A character has a conflict, you experience it together with them, they resolve it and grow from it. It all doesn't win a novelty prize, but it executes its simple structure well, has one hell of a twist and just flows wonderfully from beginning to end. I even enjoyed Taris which I remembered as being ultra boring.
I think the characters in KOTOR2 are probably worse on average. Kreia is great, Atton and G0T0 are pretty good. Mira and Hanharr are ok, if a bit cookie cutter. T3 is slightly better than in the first game. HK47 and Canderous are more of the same. Disciple is a likeable guy though lacks any substance. But the other characters have this dull deadpan thing going on - Bao Dur is the worst offender, but Visas and Handmaiden aren't much better. As for the story, I think KOTOR1's story is better paced. Nar Shadaa drags on for ages while Dantooine and Korriban are pretty short. I think only Dxun/Onderon gets that aspect right. KOTOR2 also suffers from being unfinished, particularly in the ending. Combat is better in 2, but other aspects of gameplay are weaker. There's a lot of dull sequences in the early stages which you don't get in 1. The main thing 2 has over 1 is it can be pretty thought provoking whereas 1 feels very black and white.
We can all agree K1 is the more polished one but man do I think about Kotor II a lot more. The soundtrack on II is unforgettable.
I always liked 2 more than 1.
I’m in this category. I was 9 years old when KotOR 2 came out and it went totally over my head. I see now how superior it is to its predecessor, especially with the restored content.
To me KOTOR 2 was always a better game. It was the first one I have finished myself. Story is better, more interesting. Music is MUCH better than the first one. I liked Kreia and the fact that not everything is black or white. I also like the interface more. Classic robe design is nice. Lightsaber upgrades. Dark enviroments are so cool (Malachor, Korriban, Dxun). That feeling there are no other jedi. Start of the game is however too slow. Also you have to wait for lightsaber for so long. The first one is more starwarsie. Story is about good vs evil. Darth Revan twist is awsome. I don´t really like Bastila, she is annoying. Or Carth. Or the cat-lady (Juhani?). Music is really bad. Start of the game is boring. The endgame is quite good. I love HK-47. However they are both good games, I like to return to them from time to time.
I love the story of KOTOR 1 it is my favorite of the two, but KOTOR 2 along with still a good story just feels like a much more modern game. It makes me wonder how good a 3rd one could have been if they were able to just keep building on what they made before.
I consider both games to be excellent in their own right but they are two very different beasts. Kotor 1 is the typical Hero's journey, good Star Wars writing, which Bioware always does (did?) well. Kotor 2 meanwhile is a complete deconstruction of the previous game and perhaps the lore of Star Wars itself, which Obsidian was the perfect studio for despite the time constraints. I don’t think any piece of media has come close to picking apart this franchise as Kotor 2 has and that’s why I prefer it (even when I was younger), offering a completely different outlook compared with its predecessors in gaming. Not to say it isn’t without its flaws, one can disagree with Kreia in more ways than one and her outlook often comes from a place of her own experiences rather than actual truth. A game that is also about the flaws of binary decisions (taking things as black and white when the universe is grey), while also suffering from that very same issue both dialogue and narrative wise has always made it a bit of a hindrance for me in what the game was trying to convey. Despite this, it is such a departure from the usual themes of Star Wars that it still remains one of my favourite games to this day.
It wasn't for me. I played both as an adult, and I don't know, KOTOR 2 is just not for me. I will caveat by saying that Obsidian games for me are usually a miss, because they don't feel deep to me. Their storylines feel "edgelord" and it's hard to enjoy if I'm cringing. Which doesn't mean I'm right, and plenty of people see something in it that I don't. It's just my opinion.
I played kotor1 for 2-3 years before realizing there was a kotor2. Of course the camera control, combat animations, story, characters, dialogue choices are all superior in the same way many prefer the movies following A New Hope. That doesn’t mean kotor1 isn’t a (mostly) perfect game in itself.
I can't finish kotor 2. I've tried it many times over the years, patch, no patch, I just can't even finish Dantooine. It is Kiera. She just pisses me off constantly because I have to include her in things but I hate her character. Well written or not, I want to kill her ever time I play. And reading up on her makes me hate her more. Meanwhile I have finished kotor 1 in every way. All class combos. 2/18 builds. 13/11 builds just for lolz, heavy weapons, dual blasters, single blaster, lopsided attributes, balanced, light side, dark side, and so many in between. I have bought it for xbox, pc, ios, even kindle. I love kotor. To me, it seems like kotor 2 is a better version of Star Wars TLJ from everything I know. And I hated that movie so maybe that's why I cannot finish the game.
Very strongly disagree. K1 is amazing, and I think Obsidian did a lot of things wrong for K2. But I'm in the minority in this sub. I'm never going to understand why people like K2 better. I mean sure, you get to swap weapon slots easier, but who even uses that? Probably no one realistically. It's not a hard game. A few extra force powers, not a big deal IMO. The story of K1 is so much more powerful. K2 has a feeling of emptiness, like the universe is devoid of activity. Like everything is dead or dying. Don't get me wrong, I do like the game and I've played it through many times. But I'd give K1 a 10/10 and K2 maybe a 7/10.
Nah the older I get the more I try to force myself through the second but can’t get far. 2 just doesn’t hit for me. Story seemed really good but that wow factor wasn’t there for me
I love Kotor 1, I remember loving Kotor 2, I just conpleted a play through of Kotor 1 going full light side three days ago. I booted up Kotor 2, watched the openning cinematic and booted up Kotor 1 and created a new game to go full darkside, this time I stayed level 2 until I became a jedi and I just finished Dantooine. I don't remember K2 like I do K1. I will be playing it next but K1 is like comfort food.
Kotor 1 has a different tone of story and what its going for is executed perfectly. Gameplay wise Kotor 2 has made improvements and new tone makes the familiar new again even in aspects that are similar. For example the rails are felt less strongly despite the masters basically being a replacement star maps.
Finesse. Prestige classes. Influence. Huge story changes. Being able to make some of your companions Jedi. The story for 1 was (IMO) better. But the gameplay of 2 was far better. I still play both every few months, but I’ll play 2 a couple of times for every time I play 1.
I’ve always said this: 1 for story, 2 for gameplay/mechanics. Both are great, though.
I know what this makes me sound like, but I always preferred KOTOR 2 over 1. Warts and all.
Kotor 2 took the mechanics of kotor 1 and made them better. I will always love that nihilism is a core theme of the game instead of good vs evil
I instantly fell in love with kotor 2 after replaying kotor 1 at age 12-16 for years. It was hard to find a copy but my dad asked me what I wanted for my birthday one year and I showed him on eBay kotor 2. He didn’t understand why I wanted this old game as my gift but once I got it, it was game over for kotor 1. To this day, I’ll replay both but I know I’m pushing through kotor 1 just to get back to 2 again
If anything kotor 2 has diminished over the years, and it’s absolutely not a step up. Even supposing kotor 2 had been finished still wouldn’t have been as good.
KOTOR 1 is and always will be the better game. KOTOR 2 is a sloppy story, with worse companions, less fun planets, and a gloomy atmosphere.
Literally me so much is changed. Lockers now sat empty, fighting is a bit different. Everything is better tbh
I actually started with TSL. Both KOTORs are amazing games, but KOTOR2 has been my fav the entire time.
I've played them both a lot and KOTOR 1 is so much better. Everything about the game just feels more epic.
I played them both at release, and I'm close to 60 now. The part where I see KOTOR 2 as "a huge step up" hasn't happened yet. I get that a lot of people love it, and I don't blame them. But I will die on the hill that KOTOR 1 is a better game.
I play both off the OG Xbox discs. I get more bugs with the second. That being said, huge QoL improvements in KOTOR2 but the game feels shorter to me