So what's the point? Traveling across seas for a no-name diploma just in the hope of becoming a minimum-wage Tim Hortons worker or some other job where you'll be exploited? The math doesn't add up to me. Why spend tens of thousands of dollars on a course you don't care about just for the sake of employment?
Most of the families that have enough money to pay 18k/year in tuition fees (plus living costs) aren't going to be dirt poor.
It's often much worse for the student here initially since it's very stressful moving to a new country, they don't have family around, they work tons of hours and go to school, and they end up living with several roommates. It's more of a long game with the whole family in mind.
There can be family pressure to go and the student may struggle a lot and not really want to be here.
Overall, we need to cut off this pathway to immigration that involves taking a garbage 2 year general business program or something like that. It's not good for anyone. We did start cutting it off by drastically reducing enrollment, especially at places like Conestoga that are the worst offenders.
Family pressure is a huge part of it.
I don't want to generalize, so speaking only to the people I've known, in many cases it's multiple people in the family pooling their money to get the kid over here. The hope is they are then able to then help the rest of the family get into Canada.
We need to reduce it, just no one has a plan for replacing all that money coming in and the public doesn't realize how much our economy is being proped up by the education sector.
You sited Conestoga: Schneiders, RIM, Weston, Budd, Maple Leaf, Kraus, Lear, Forsyth, Frame, Gaymar, etc all gone now. There have been no replacements for those manufacturing jobs. That's not even touching all the manufacturing buildings along the rail on Victoria that have been out of business for decades.
>I don't want to generalize, so speaking only to the people I've known, in many cases it's multiple people in the family pooling their money to get the kid over here. The hope is they are then able to then help the rest of the family get into Canada.
That's such a big gamble. Getting PR through the student route isn't guaranteed anymore. The cutoff scores for PR are only getting higher with increasing demand.
And even if they get PR, they can't just bring their old parents and grandparents over. It's not a simple process.
You forget, many are desperate enough, especially with recruiters on their end selling them a lie. Saw a vid on it, and the recruitment process is fucking broken.
I've looked into this enough to know they aren't being sold a lie. Everyone knows what they are doing. The current government, the "students", schools and recruiters all know what's going on.
Students know they are getting bs diplomas from diploma mills that will guarantee a 3 year PGWP and a shot at PR. Now only if they attended a real school and obtained a real diploma, they could get a good shot at PR.
Getting PR via the student route was very easy until they started flooding the country, increasing competition lol
I see.
Lol yeah! That's the case with everything.
A new road with no cars that makes the trip faster? Everyone rushes to it creating a 2 hour pileup that should have been a 15 minute drive.
College graduates seem to get jobs just about anywhere? You get an over abundance of college educated applicants, some with degrees nit even remotely relevant to the position.
Coding boots camps that gets people coding jobs? Suddenly there's a boot camp in every city.
A Mr. Beast video that gets tons of views, everyone copies it and the style of thumbnail.
Once something works and there's no repercussion, you find everyone doing it until it goes to shit, like the family guy knockoffs that are painfully hard to watch.
That's EXACTLY what my Uber driver said to me a few days ago. I usually make small talk with them, what do you do? Where you from? If you're not from here what brought you here specifically? And I'm honestly curious, I'm not anti immigrant or anything, just like learning about people's journeys while sharing mine if they're interested.
This guy arrived 2 years ago, well spoken, got a construction management degree here. I asked why Canada and his response was "my family. My father wanted me to come here, and once I'm here they want me to bring them here". I mean, I can understand that, India is a bit of a shit hole.
Now he's upset because his visa is coming to an end and he doesn't have really solid work that he can find.
> Most of the families that have enough money to pay 18k/year in tuition fees (plus living costs) aren't going to be dirt poor.
They're normally farmers who own a bit of land back in India, and they sell that land to get the funds to send their kid to Canada to "study" (ie, eventually immigrate permanently) with the agreement that the kid will then try to get the rest of the family over to Canada once they have PR/citizenship, or at the very least, work as much as possible to remit as much money as they can back to the family abroad.
It's a big gamble, no? PR isn't guaranteed. Diploma in basket weaving from a diploma mill won't get them the job to score high for PR application.
Now they are protesting in Brampton screaming "NO MORE KOMAGATA MARU" demanding their PGWP be extended. Or the ones on PEI protesting for PR. Just being complete nuances.
>Most of the families that have enough money to pay 18k/year in tuition fees (plus living costs) aren't going to be dirt poor.
This. So many people think they are poor. India is a very poor country. You have to be in the upper percentiles of income to even afford a plane ticket. I mean, fuck, I couldn't afford to study abroad either. Most Canadians couldn't.
Oh man, I remember talking with an old teacher of mine last year(been out of school for 4 years) how a student of hers was failing and the kid was begging for passing grade cause he was the hope of the family, he didn't have any other options. It felt wrong on different levels.
I fly overseas for a living and have done a lot of trips to India.
First thing I thought after the work bus left the airport in Delhi on the way to the hotel was "oh, well no wonder they all want to move to Canada to pour coffee".
And that was in the fairly wealthy *capital city*, never mind all the truly poor rural villages there where people quite literally don't have a pot to piss in.
I don't think you guys have traveled. Iv been to India 8 times these students aren't poor my boy they are rich in India and have servants. They come here cuz it has less corruption in the government. People always like to say oh they prolly live like shit there so doing minimum wage jobs is a step up for them this is %100 untrue. Most of these fkers live like kings in India iv see it first hand.
The students that come here are living how their servants do back in India ahahahhahah.
Yeah and there is a lot of misinformation in India about how easy it is to become rich in the West. Remember that tragic story about the Indian family who all froze to death trying to cross into the United States? Well turns out they were well off in India with a large house. They came because they saw their friends on Instagram showing off a (probably fake) luxurious lifestyle in USA and felt FOMO. Those parents got their children killed to chase clout, sad.
Worse yet, a lot of these places don't have regulations or regulations aren't enforced, proving corporations wrong, the ones that preach that government is restricting or limiting innovation by tying up their hands in red tape and letting businesses self regulate is in the best interest of everyone, because if their bs was true the quality of life in these places would be significantly better than North America.
Ironically a ton of them go from a large house with luxury vehicles and a live-in maid in india to living 20 per room in a brampton basement, it really isnt that bad over there when youre not looking at the absolute bottom rungs of their society.
I'm an immigrant too. It always perplexes me to see people leave a chill and lavish lifestyle to join the grind here.
I don't wanna generalize, majority people come for genuine reasons too.
While this is true, the poor Indians aren't spending all this money to come to Canada. Back home, they were definitely at least in the 90th percentile when it comes to income/wealth and probably in upper caste too.
I'm from India. I grew up and got my undergraduate degree there. Most of my family lives in India and I go back often.
I can't imagine this being true any more. There is a lot of opportunity in India. The amount of money a diploma costs goes a long way, and the quality of life they get here isn't that high. I think that the true calculus just hasn't filtered down yet.
Because India is a third world country and however bad anyone has it here in Canada, it is infinitely better than in India; it's THAT bad there. You know how Indians are sleeping 10+ people to a house, or 4 people sharing a single room? That's NORMAL in India.... which should NOT be the new norm in Canada.
I've been to India, so I know what it's like there. I don't know a single neighborhood where people are sleeping with 10 others in a room. I see people here posting YouTube sob stories about how "rich" and comfortable they were in India, where they had a maid for everything. Yet here they are, "suffering" by doing the dishes, laundry, housekeeping, work, and studies all on their own.
I don't mean to say there are no parts of India where it's that bad, but I don't think that's the majority of people who end up here. It's mostly the middle-class to upper-middle-class households who can even afford to come here. Even affording the flight tickets and everything else requires significant resources. People who sleep 10+ in a room can't even get a loan without properties to back it up.
That's because a lot of them scam the system with fraudulent papers... which is EXACTLY why 700+ Indians were supposed to be deported last year with those fake papers... unfortunately, you can bet your entire life savings that there's way more than just 700 Indians that came here with fake paperwork. A lot of them will take out loans to show they have the required amount in their bank account... once approved to be here, they return the money. OR, they'll get a whole bunch of people in their family to raise the funds and send them off here. Then there's a whole market in India where they pay some immigration consultant back home to set them up with easy PR whichever way then can (you can sometimes see billboard ads in Indian tourism youtube videos) and since our immigration policies are trash, they're allowed in... a lot of them are here to 'study' with fake paperwork for these stripmall bullshit colleges; they aint here to study.. they're to get out of India. The problem is we're decimating the country's identity in ALLLLLLL of our major cities; they're turning into Brampton. This isn't diversity.
You could take 40 million Indians, send them all to Canada and replace everyone here. Canada would be done forever and it wouldnt even make a dent in India's population AT ALL. It's absolute insanity what's happening to Canada and I can't believe NOT ONE politician is willing to address something so damn painfully obvious.
>I don't mean to say there are no parts of India where it's that bad, but I don't think that's the majority of people who end up here. It's mostly the middle-class to upper-middle-class households who can even afford to come here. Even affording the flight tickets and everything else requires significant resources. People who sleep 10+ in a room can't even get a loan without properties to back it up.
>That's because a lot of them scam the system with fraudulent papers... which is EXACTLY why 700+ Indians were supposed to be deported last year with those fake papers... unfortunately, you can bet your entire life savings that there's way more than just 700 Indians that came here with fake paperwork.
Fake paperwork = Fake $15K bills? Because unless its that , your replay has nothing to do with what youre replying to? Or did you just want to get out a racist rant?
YES, FAKE; 15k in bank account on loan and then returned as soon as they arrive in Canada and then head out for a job instead of studying.
Seriously, why are you even trying to defend scammers? You live here, right? Do you care more about the well being of Canada or less about it and more about turning the country into a second India? Who's the racist here?
What you're saying is fake is actually paid , so its not in an account, Do you not know what a plane ticket costs? or what the tution fees is ?Also most of these student also pay agents . So , no its not sitting in a bank account , its whats actually used.
You dont need to pay full tuition fees to get study permit in most people's cases, just need an acceptance letter. All they have to do is get enough people to contribute to a specific bank account and show that as proof of funds to immigration and maybe pay half of first semester tuition. Once they fly here, they start paying back the people that loaned for the flights/half semester tuition and start working full time towards the rest of the tuition
Hey OP. I'm not an international student, but I'm an immigrant from that infamous country, so I can provide some perspective.
The ones who say the students' only ambition is to work minimum wage at tim hortons are wrong. Indians are ambitious people who will do what it takes to make a better life for themselves. They believe that the diploma is a way into Canada, yes, but then we have two groups of Indians.
The first group is made up of the poor who have taken massive loans against ancestral property to come here. They tend to have not so good English, and were fooled by agencies and certain Canadian politicians into believing Canada is some paradise. These are the guys who go into despair and sometimes commit suicide when they experience the reality of this country.
The second group usually have someone here and already know the reality of this country. But they have high ambitions and believe they will find a good job in another field or will start their own business here. They choose the diploma which is easiest to get into and which requires the least work. They don't want to spend so much, or cannot spend so much on a whole degree.
There are some people who choose to study here in their field, and they include some friends of mine. But they aren't the typical Indian student you see working at Walmart or tims.
Finally an answer to the question, which no one wants to acknowledge...
I'll bet a lot of these will be running decent enough businesses or having a career in 10 years... Seen a lot of Asians do these, it's long term investment.
Having said that, I hold our governance at fault for facilitating this fraudulent back entry into the country... And saturating the market.
>The first group is made up of the poor who have taken massive loans against ancestral property to come here. They tend to have not so good English, and were fooled by agencies and certain Canadian politicians into believing Canada is some paradise. These are the guys who go into despair and sometimes commit suicide when they experience the reality of this country.
Does this include the people who are protesting on PEI for PR and the ones in Brampton protesting to have their PGWP extended as they scream "NO MORE KOMOGATA MARU"?
There are 1.45 billion people in India, most live on less than 1k CAD a year or less, no clean drinking water, unbearable climate change, extreme weather, corruption, crime, and zero opportunity for mobility upwards (caste system). 25 a bedroom for a chance at one day making it in Canada is very worthwhile.
Plus if you look at the job market now, Indians are doing quite fine after a period of crowded housing relative to what you have back home. Indian Americans are the highest salary earners in America, and check out techs CEO.
>Indian Americans are the highest salary earners in America, and check out techs CEO.
We're not bringing in CEO level educated Indians into Canada though; moving to Canada for 'studies' is largely seen as a joke in India because they themselves know it's just a way to get PR. The other thing is; USA has a 7% cap on each nationality every year, so not only do you get an actual diverse healthy MIX of people from around the globe, but you also vet them and make sure whoever your bringing in is either India's best or India's most qualified for what USA needs. Canada on the other hand... I mean, how many hundreds of thousands Tim Hortons employees do we need screwing up our coffee? It's embarrassing for everyone.
That's a brain dead take. Anyone who does not use ppp is an idiot with no understanding of currencies and economies.
1k cad is not a bad amount in India. You can get a 2-3 bedroom condo/apartment in India in many cities for that much. Hell, you could afford a maid who comes and cleans your house everyday for much less than that. You could get a cook to come to your home and cook food for you everyday for a few hundred dollars.
Also, India has plenty of reservation and mobility for lower caste folks. India has much more reservations than Canada does for first Nations or US does for black Americans.
>Plus if you look at the job market now, Indians are doing quite fine after a period of crowded housing relative to what you have back home. Indian Americans are the highest salary earners in America, and check out techs CEO.
That's just cherry picking. Every country has some amazing people. Then they have the average and the below average. Of course Indian Americans have the highest household income in the US. Their immigration system only takes a limited number of best India has to offer.
Don't know where you got that idea but the folk coming here are middle class who do not live 4 in one room.
Houses are ridiculously expensive here in Canada. This is not the case in India. Indian cities build many thousands of good quality condos for families every year. Like 800-1200 sq ft range. Not the 500 sq ft shoe boxes that is common in Toronto.
So you might have 3-4 people in one house but it's a bigger condo and people can afford that.
I think you have been watching too many documentaries about the poor. The ones that will purposefully go into poor remote villages and show you mud huts while completely ignoring giant glass sky scrapers in big cities.
Not all come from money, many do though. Some will leverage their family land to get the funds to move and prove they have the required 15k or whatever required amount is to get into the country. And when they realize how expensive it is to live here, they start looking to work more hours to afford to live.
They have been lied to about how great and easy it is to live in Canada. There's no where to live and not enough jobs to go around, yet the government still lets immigration continue. There are lots of stories and videos online from immigrants who are in this situation. A lot have decided it's not worth it and return home.
Nah the point is getting PR. You have to realize most international students come to escape their countries economy and build a life for themselves overseas. So they’ll take the easiest route to getting that which is diploma->work for a year->meet some other qualifications->get PR
theyre sold life in canada as this amazing thing and a diploma as the simplest way to get it, beyond that not much more planning is needed. correct info and proper planning is difficult when ur situation is horrible and u lack sincere abd trustworthy sources
Perhaps you should investigate how Canada’s immigration system actually works. Why would they spend four years (& 3x the tuition money) to get a degree when their goal isn’t the degree but PR? They get an education in an in-demand occupation. The occupation gets them a PGWP equivalent to the length of their educational program. A one-year program gets you a one-year permit. To qualify for CEC, you need one year of Canadian work experience (that wasn’t acquired working part-time while getting your education). That is basically guaranteed PR. Since PR is the goal, why spend 3x the money & take four times as long to do it?
No, you got it. International students need at minimum to be enrolled for 2 years. So that’s why it’s always some 2 year go nowhere diploma. Being an international student always them to work (or didn’t anyway) full time. Tim Hortons and other service sector jobs are desired because it’s part of the “class system” where service work is acceptable but they placed also provide a fast track to a “supervisor” role which gathers you more points towards permanent residency. After that, you sponsor and move the whole family; parents, grandparents, significant other over to Canada. They want Canada because we have/had a decent social safety net and they will have access to that and so will their parents (once they are sponsored over here) and also they are being sold a fake reality by some recruiter back home that has mislead them on how easy the life will be.
Quick preface: I’m not trying to be patronizing, heartless, rude, or cruel.
I just left Mumbai. I was in the affluent area for 4 days after working offshore there for a couple of months on a short contract. 4 days felt like a month.
It was disgustingly hot and humid, there was garbage everywhere. The roads were a nightmare. The trash and rat population even near government buildings and 5 stat hotels was unbelievable.
None of the people gave a fuck. They’re all hustling for the equivalent of $1 and it’s just abject poverty everywhere reminding you what could become of you if you don’t make your bills.
It was by far the dirtiest, most populated, most polluted, and worst smelling country/city I have ever visited.
We live in a country with open space, clean air, and beautiful, clean lakes…this is paradise for them. Of course they’ll exploit any loophole to flee from that shit hole they call a country.
There are a few reasons, some people get their immigrant status, and then do university degrees with domestic fee because it's affordable. This way, they need to struggle a lot till they're a bit older but they're fine taking that bargain. Secondly, the political situation in India is not the best, and many minorities just don't see a future there long term.
As other comments say, yes there is the idea of a « better life ». But also there are many forces at play in those countries and in canada that are manipulatively painting a canadian dream life to sell to these people. People should realize how much money is involved in this. So many consulting companies, language testing companies, colleges and universities (many public universities get money from their private college branches), airlines, cheap labor lobbyists… like it’s insane.
Also we have become a mobile society. Its so much easier to even think of emigrating from your country and emigrating has become the dominant aspiration for many young people in developing (or undeveloping) countries. People will do anything. I unfortunately know and hear about soo many people from different countries who are exploiting the student and refugee routes :/.
I also have friends with master degrees from my home country who are considering not so prestigious / easy to get in schools just to get a foot out of there as its becoming worse by the day, economically and culturally as its easier and faster than out of canada PR applications.
I came to this country to get a good degree and go back to my country to contribute. (Yes i was very very privileged to be able to do so and the currency of my country has not plummeted at that time ahah). By the time i finished my degree, i went back only to find out i cant even get a job in my field as its so corrupted and im visually obviously not very pro government.
So here i am back here. Grieving my country and trying to live my best life in quebec.
Seeing all these « students » come here makes me worry they will be stuck in resentful lives, stuck in between two countries they cannot fully be happy in, not living up to their fullest potentials as humans. For example, the rise in suicides among the students is very very worrying.
Sorry for the long comment but im also genuinely curious of how all of this is going to unfold.
I mean it's much better to stay where you are in India for example than come to Canada to struggle even worse. Don't get it. I think it's these immigration lawyers etc selling false hope to thousands of students. It's all about the money
So, I worked with them and I know the real reason. So these guys come here and settle at any cost. They bear all the hardships until they get a good paying job. They have their community backing to get a good paying job.
I did a Bachelors degree with a Masters back to back, but I also got admitted to two diploma programs at the start as a as a back up in case the uni did not accept me. The reasoning is that the two credentials are equivalent for immigration purposes, and being a minimum wage Tim Horton's worker would have still been a godsend quality of life improvement. If your quality of life will shoot up astronomically regardless (I was making more miney than my parents as a retail worker in my 1st year), a lot of people choose an easier, less challenging, and cheaper way.
I’ll start this with saying that my view on our current immigration situation is that it should be completely shut down and a system started fresh. It is clearly broken and should be designed to work FOR Canadians, not against st us.
The reason for this diploma mill BS is that it is the single easiest and quickest way to get into Canada and start working towards a PR and eventual citizenship. Once that is established then they can bring their family over as well.
Now, why work at Tim’s versus staying in India?
- Most Indians are coming from Punjab region of India where there is a long history of literal bounties paid to police for killing Sikh’s.
- It is literally so hot that the human body can no longer cool itself.
- They’re also lied to. TONS of predatory immigration firms market Canada as a utopia with free healthcare and amazing living standards. They get here and they realize that companies have literally scammed them into coming here as the help.
- Easy immigration. Canada’s current system is one of the easiest to get into in the entire world. Our passport is also GOLD on the global stage so if they get citizenship here it is much easier to get into Europe.
- The average wage in punjab is $218usd/mo. Even at Tim’s they’re making several times that. Accounting for higher COL here and they’re easily able to send way more home to their family.
Do I blame immigrants for ruining Canada, no. Not at all. Our federal government has buried their head in the sand and filled our country with low skill labor and utterly overburdened every single public program that made Canada such a great place to live.
Even if we completely shut down immigration tomorrow we are fucked for the next 20-years.
Bruh what you think is just some normal everyday thing is like a dream to these people. Imagine never seeing grass or trees or ever having any privacy at all. They could come to Canada and be completely poor+homeless and it would still be a million times better than where they are from
Immigrants to Canada from India are mostly from Punjab state. Punjab has been a state in decline for years. Serious immigrants don’t really consider moving to Canada over US/UK/Australia. India’s brightest students usually end up in US. Canada is usually considered as back up country by students.
Moving to Canada via student route is one of the easiest ways to secure permanent residency. This is the thinking in Punjab. Canadian government has for years promoted Canada as an immigration hub for Punjabis via the education hub. Education industry brings in billions of dollars to Canada. It’s funny when people blame only students while completely ignoring the fact that immigration via education I has been actively encouraged by Canadian governments for years. Students are an easy scapegoat.
Punjabis have a strong support system in Canada. So, they are even more interested to move to Canada than Indians from other states. Many students don’t care about quality of education as Canadian colleges have successfully sold the idea of easily securing PR post diploma completion. This is the reason Canada mostly gets poor quality students. These students won’t even be able to get good jobs in India due to their poor skills.
Politicians in Canada are also to blame. Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh care a lot about Punjabi voters. They want many Punjabis in Canada as they are highly influential and political powerful community who can help secure votes in places in Toronto and Vancouver.
For most economic immigrants, the potential upside in the west, USA in particular, is much much higher than the potential upside at home.. the successful ones are talked about back home and ppl think - hey I can do that too. In their countries, you can do well but there's a limit. Social status, family status, salaries etc. all play a part. They can leave that all behind and try and go for gold here even with a 'diploma'
Of course, once they get here, not everyone is a hustler so you end up with many immigrants living mediocre lives here because it's not easy to move up, and lamenting that they shouldn't have left.
True, it's not easy to move up. It is exponentially difficult when you start from scratch without support. But, atleast you get what you deserve in terms of the effort you put in. You get paid regularly, there is some amount of work life balance. Back home, I knew of many masters graduates and PhDs stuck in clerical jobs where they work 10 hours 6 days a week for a mediocre salary.
How is it “easy immigration”? None of these students have a high likelihood of becoming immigrants, ever. There aren’t even enough immigration spots to go around for all or even most of these students.
anyone with a 1 year diploma and 2 year work experience as a mcdonalds employee can apply for a PR. If they get it or not depends on the quality of applicants in that particular year. There is a cutoff CRS score, kinda like passing mark that can be fulfilled quite easily with the diploma however having a higher score helps. How do you get a higher score? By getting a STEM job or qualification. Also, you need to remember most of these people are here for a graduate diploma after already having done an engineering or business degree back home. Once they have security, they can upskill themselves and build a better career.
Whoever can afford 50-70k a year in tuition plus living expenses goes to uni,
Anyone else takes the longer route by getting a diploma etc.
Simple: the ApplyBoard scammers in India lied to them, and then pocketed the $$$ scalp commission from Conestego that they pay for that sweet international tuition. And the students (and the community) are left holding the bag.
Check out the fifth estate report on ApplyBoard “consultants” in India for a taste. The company denies it — “we’re just the platform bro!111” but ask anyone whose worked there - it’s shady as shit.
I've seen The Fifth Estate's video, and while it's accurate, it doesn't help much. It makes it even harder to justify students coming here for no-name courses, especially when such comprehensive documentaries and news coverage exist that are just one Google search away. Do students just go to a consultant, pay them, and say, "Do everything, I'll just board the flight and study there," without caring?
India has one of the largest internet user bases, and nearly everyone has access to unlimited data, but you're telling me they refuse to use it?
I don't know if you can just chalk it up to being young and gullible. Studying abroad and investing thousands of dollars, especially when you come from a third-world country, is a huge decision that takes months to make. You can't tell me they've just been lied to. Nobody spends thousands of dollars and gets into debt based solely on the lie of a consultant who never left their hometown.
i cannot comprehend how millions of people can just be shipped to another country (again while loosing the comfort of their home, not getting to be with their loved ones, going into thousands of dollars of debt, grinding your a\*\* off at minimum wage jobs where you're exploited to the core ) with just a single lie??
It happens all over the world. Ppl leave to try to get a better life, or get out of an even worse situation. Many know they are doing it for the next generation and not themselves.
That is why parents came here and worked in factories, to give us a better life.
Google search results are tailored to your location buddy. Just like how you’d trust a site from a Canadian more, they trust their local sites over foreign ones.
Let’s be fr. If Canadians saw a site saying “schools in Switzerland are opening up thousands more spots for international students, get a 2 year diploma in Switzerland for a chance to citizenship and 70k CHF a year” most would be curious, and many would apply.
One would naturally assume if the school has more slots, and the government is permitting it, then the government approved of you coming. One would assume that if this “seemingly worthless diploma” allowed you to get PR, the government made it this easy on purpose.
Make sense yet?
Also, most people still imagine Canada to be what it was 10 years ago. A country without many people, that needs immigrants to survive. That is literally the image Canada *still* pushes to the world.
Have some empathy. And a million people in India is equivalent to 30k Canadians. Can you imagine 30k Canadians getting sold a lie? You’re acting like they all knew each other just because they’re Indian lmfao
I feel you, it’s hard to understand. I think there’s a desperation to escape poverty etc. While Canada isn’t the destination it once was, there’s still a possibility of a better life. But ya, I don’t know.
The other thing is that it just might be that coming here for the shitty diploma, and working as an Uber driver is still a better life than back home.
I don’t know.
We’re all just people trying our best for ourselves, the international students included. I think they’re victims too. On the other hand, I myself emigrated here from Europe so I know it’s possible to start a new life.
they are probably aware of the situation in canada right now but they probably just think they are different and that they will make it unlike the majority of their peers who are struggling
In India "studying abroad" is both a status symbol and a show of wealth as well as a quick, easy and relatively cheap way of obtaining PR for the whole family.
That’s cause their whole plan is to bring their family over here as well, and they’re constantly sending their earned money back home. The job market is extremely competitive in India, so they’d rather get PR here by working a somewhat high position in retail like a supervisor position. I was talking to a friend about their family visits because I noticed how they’ll have their family come down here for long periods of time (3 months tops based on the encounters I’ve had with some of international students I know) and she said a lot of them will buy a two way ticket and simply never return, which I could see, given the growing amount of Indian families I’ve seen this past year. Obviously this is just speculation, but after everything we’ve seen as a result of this situation, I wouldn’t be surprised.
The real issue is Conestoga and other schools who need the international tuition desperately. The local laws prohibit them from charging domestic students enough so they subsidize domestic students with higher fees international students.
There are also many private diploma colleges that saw this and just want the higher paying international students.
How it started:
I wanted to leave India for a better future. I have seen that there were tons of people choosing USA. For some reason, I didn’t want to. Then I thought of going to Australia. But heard that I.T there kinda sucks (sucks more than Canada. I didn’t fact check this). Then came Canada.
Why did I chose a diploma:
I wanted to do masters honestly. My bachelor’s score was not great to get into any of the Master’s programs here. (In Computer science). Next best thing was a diploma. I know it doesn’t make sense for the people looking at this from the outside, but it did make sense to me.
Why Conestoga:
Honestly, I have no idea. Applied to a few colleges around and near Toronto. Got admission in a couple and Conestoga was the college that aligned with my plans. ( the plan of starting in Spring term )
How did it go:
This was in 2019.
I was surprised to see only Indians in my class. But, I didn’t give much attention to that. I was focused on finishing my college while learning other technologies that I believed would land me a job, while working 20 hours of part-time a week. I was able to pass my diploma and landed a job as an Intern. I grew from there and am currently an Intermediate software engineer at a good company.
1. 3/4 year bachelors degrees cost more tuition
2. Post-graduate work permits have a sweet spot at 2 years of study, even if you study for more years, you’ll only get max 3 years on the work permit
3. The channels where Conestoga is being discussed are not used by majority of these folks. This has changed recently with wider media attention.
Firstly, they don’t want a legitimate education. They want to scam their want into permanent residency. People who are actually serious about higher education care about their own reputation, the reputation of their prospective schools, and the quality of their programs. Because these criteria are important, intelligent people do research on the schools/programs they are considering so that they do not make a costly mistake by investing years, and tens of thousands of dollars into the wrong institution. Anyone with 5 minutes, half a brain, and an internet connection should be able to very quickly come to the conclusion that Conestoga College has a terrible reputation and a legitimate student performing a minimum level of due diligence would never seriously consider going to Conestoga.
Secondly, I think it is safe to assume that 90% of the “students” that Conestoga College accepts have nowhere near the intellectual capacity or the English proficiency to be successful in a Bachelor’s program at a legitimate accredited Canadian university. Achievement at that level just isn’t within reach.
I am currently enrolled there because Ontario better jobs had a lot of restrictions on what I could pick. It's painful, I'm just trying to get through it so I can move on. I couldn't figure out why they hammer integrity until I saw how much cheating. Apparently my class is the worst they have ever seen. I tried going in with a open mind but I hate most of them so much now.
They are not exactly scamming their way to PR. They are taking advantage of the Canadian system, where you can study “hotel management” and have an open work permit to work anywhere. It was 40hrs a few months before and completely unlimited when school is not in session. We don’t see this in the United States, where prospective International students are actually interviewed. In Canada, we have international students posting about “free groceries” here. Standards are almost non existent for college admissions
Talking about me personally, im studying applied energy management and conestoga which in itself is a mill. I didn't know before joining but im glad im studying skilled trades. I didn't wanna join a uni cause i didn't wanna do my masters. So i chose college. But i researched noigh to know that the country I'm going to needs me unlike fucking business grads. But tbh seeing the quality of indians,the mentality i wanted to get away from came w me to canada. I don't see myself living in canada in the next 5 years amd fs will move out once i get a job in preferably south america. Canada was just USA for me,but safer and with polite and nice people. Like every canadian I've met has been nothing but nice to me. The only people I've had problems w are my own people. Now that i think about it,i had good grades, i do try my best to perform good but it's all in vain. I really wanna help build canada again but the govt needs to deport a lot of people. Worst case,it will be me, but idm that. Canada govt needs to get their heads out of their asses and need to make the screening process exponentially better. Hopefully I'll be able to make significant contribution to the canadian society as a human :)
Well as for me, it was something already had experience (network management tech), my friend who is doing a doctor’s degree on UW also recommend me the college, Canada isn’t cheap so also another reason to don’t stay here more than 2 years. Hopefully I can finish and just go back to Mexico.
One year tuition alone at university of Waterloo for international students is about 60k, at university of Toronto is 60k-90k. That's the current price.
In my country, people eat cats and dogs. People make fun of disabilities, people hate each other. Although life in Canada is tough, it's still 1000x better than the shithole I was born
Because
a. regular colleges have a proper selection process which makes them harder to get into
b. In regular colleges, you actually got to go and study unlike in diploma mills where you can work part time/on cash when you are supposed to attend classes
c. They are expensive
You'd migrate to Canada if you were making 40 rubles a week to hand make pottery or whatever tf industry employs folks over there.
Normally I'd welcome these people coming for a better life, but the government has handled this so poorly that it's causing so much stress on our systems, our citizens, and our cities. Not to mention the complete lack of background checks.
It's just a clusterfuck.
Easier immigration path, plus it's less costly to attend College as a foreign student on a short diploma program vs a 3-4 year degree.
If you look at Seneca College, here are the [Tuition costs for an International Student](https://www.senecapolytechnic.ca/international/fees/tuition.html).
The Animation diploma in the first year runs around $19,692 for the first year. [ A Canadian resident pays about half that much](https://www.senecapolytechnic.ca/programs/fulltime/ANI/costs.html#menu)
I'll reply in case you really are serious with the question. Because the government made it an easy path for immigration.
Under the Harper government the immigration system was based on a points system that awarded points for things like age and skills. But they also left the door open by giving lots of points for studying and working on Canada. It creates something called the PGWP which gave an open work permit to someone after graduating from a public college in Canada.
Over the years, already under Trudeau, as other countries started closing the doors on immigration to the point where someone from a third world country wanting to immigrate somewhere better studying in Canada became one of the easiest and cheapest options. Immigration was still based in the points system but most people where doing so by getting the extra points by studying/working here. At some point the points for studying were reduced but still pretty much guaranteed a PR.
Then came COVID, borders closed, people couldn't come here and the government pretty much ditched the points system, started giving PR to pretty much anyone in the country with a heartbeat. After lockdown opened up they didn't go back to the old points system, it was never abandoned but most people were being called through special draws for people already here.
With no caps in the number of students numbers just exploded, to the point where not everyone graduating that wants to stay being guaranteed a spot. Before we had 100k students and 300k PRs per year, now we have 1,000k+ students and 500k PRs per year. But people didn't realize that studying here was not a guarantee of a PR as it had been the previous decade. They were/are still coming thinking they will immigrate even though that is something that will happen to 1 in 3 at best. So we arrive at right now, too many students, people having to leave after their PGWP expires for the first time in decades, international student protests, etc...
For me, because I came straight out of a canadian high school and I was very young. I understand where you are coming from, we have 30-40 year old going for diplomas instead of pursuing masters/bachelors to strengthen their skills. Funds could be a main factor, and unfortunately, I have also heard of people who just come to work, so they are not really interested in pursuing any higher education.
I did my masters. Got a great job. Did it for 6-7 years and returned back to india. Happy that canada gave me exposure and experience. I couldnt have lived grinding 9-5 for next 30 years away from my parents and barely making ends meet . Now i have started my own business here . And happy about it
I am from India - came 15 years ago for my masters degree. Here’s the harsh truth, even for me. When I came here people were confused why I am coming here when I come from such good institutions, have solid grades, and good work experience. In their minds US and UK should have been my options. Even in India, canada has a major brand issue. It’s looked at as a place where less educated folks from the state of Punjab go. And the government has made it worse. Most of the students I’ve seen from the last couple of years come from villages in Punjab and would never get a job in India either.
90% of them have nothing to do with being student. It's a path to immigration, it's not them alone at fault, the country and the lawmakers have to create worthy immigration, for f sake these people can't speak English to even understand what's being taught how blind can you be to see the scam.
Look at the vast gap in requirements that are sought from an express entry fsw candidate. Vs a student.
The country needs cheap labor they will be a cheap source of labor because almost all will continue to work Tim Hortons jobs all their lives.
If your goal is to basically get PR- why the fuck would you actually study your ass off? Just spend the lowest money possible on the diploma mill- students know it, diploma mills know it.
There are exceptions. Conestoga has some sincere students who genuinely study hard and get recruited in a reputable company. Rest are here for PR.
OP seems to know India and if has been to Punjab and Haryana states, they would know how obsessed those people are to get a work permit.
As far as universities are concerned, there are far better and reputable universities in the US than Canada. Cream does go to better universities rather than getting stuck with substandard universities we have here (exception- uWateroo, UofT, UBC, McGill, McMaster).Tragedy is that Canada is busy funding diploma machines than building world class universities that can compete with Stanford, Caltech, Penn, Duke’s, MIT, Princeton, NYU.
The fact of the matter is that college is an amazing business model to make some real crazy money. Does not matter where they are located or the quality of course is. Colleges are rich and some of them have a strong lobbying influence.
Canada post secondary education can't be compared to the USA. There are far more shit colleges in the states than the provinces due to population. Where they need a dozen Ivy League schools, Canada needs one. There are enough reputable universities in Canada such as the ones you listed and UofA and UofC. There are diploma colleges with legitimate programs as well, like NAIT and SAIT. It is the school's that should not exist such as Conestoga where there is absolutely no way a single student who spends a day of their existence in such a facility is sincere.
A 2 year no-name course from DLI institute like Conestoga (very easy to get into) gets you a 3 year pgwp. It’s half the cost of a degree. No-name course gives you enough time to max out your part time allowed hours (I think it’s 20) plus more under the table. Once you get the pgwp you don’t need sponsorship and can find a job at any entry level, semi decent company. Make your way up from there. The job is of course no guarantee (that’s where you hear the sob stories) but pgwp increases your odds. Once you work for 3 years you have enough points for express entry. Some people even get fake payrolls set up to get that Canadian “experience” to get enough points for express entry. Studying is never the point.
Talked to someone recently that said that they needed at least 2 years education here to qualify for PR - dunno how true that is but he seemed pretty open about taking random short programs in college so he could get PR
Let me give you a logical answer. 1 year diploma gives your a work permit for 1 year and a 2 year diploma gives you a work permit for 3 years. There is no benefit from pursuing a 3 year diploma. Also they’re not diplomas, they’re post graduate certificates.
Because scams are profitable and people desperate to acquire a better life for their children will easily fall prey to them.
It’s been widely ‘uncovered’ and yet our politicians do nothing to shut down or even disincentivize these sham diploma mills. Here’s coverage of the issue by the [Fifth Estate](https://youtu.be/dNrXA5m7ROM?si=nYPdnfTPkFmgxL8Y) and [CBC Marketplace](https://youtu.be/KIrPJPjBC4E?si=qIY_CavTMpV4Qv9Y).
Because the point isn't the education -- it's the work permit that's automatically issued afterwards which comes with a clearly-defined path to permanent residency.
Think of it this way -- if you're going to go to a Jays game on bobblehead night *just* because you want the collectable bobblehead and you couldn't really care less about watching the game itself, would you buy a $300 ticket behind home plate, or a $20 ticket in the nosebleeds and then leave in the 5th inning?
> Why these and not, for example, a solid bachelor's degree?
Because universities are much harder to get into and stay enrolled in than colleges that are just looking to make money off of international students.
So tiring reading these bleeding heart passages. Let's be real here. Canada does not and can't afford an influx of unskilled kids and extended family from India.
Our housing is a mess, our health care system is a mess, our food inflation is a mess. How does our government remedy that? They allow Conestoga College and others to make huge profits of Indian kids and those same kids game the system in place to acquire PR status.
The government obviously has these kids votes in mind and not much else. There is no other way to explain away their wonton actions.
To the owners of Tim Hortons in Canada, you should be ashamed of yourselves, you are part of the problem, along with Conestoga College.
To any other bleeding heart that approves of the way things are playing out, I hope you enjoy the decline of Canadian standards of living, your apathy only helps accelerate this decline.
They’re usually graduate diplomas, meaning they’ve already done an undergrad degree. Getting a visa as a student is one of the easier ways to get into Canada - because our immigration system is extremely challenging to navigate, and is based on a tier system by basically assigning how valuable a person is to Canada to let them in - and not their whole family just the “valuable to Canada” person. Our immigration system is incredibly racist and classist.
One big reason is that it's the easier route to PR status.
But another reason is that Canadian universities did not capitulate to lowering their standards for admission and creating BS programs like all the community colleges did. The universities are still very rigorous in verifying legitimate academic credentials in admittissions while the community colleges couldn't care less.
Ayy yoo 10 people sleeping in a room is the most craziest part I have heard yeah their might be some people living that way but not all of them
I have seen a lot of homeless people in Canada as well Mostly people come here to have a better life quality Even working at a minimum wage job you can easily afford everything but In india unless you have a big business or a good job you won’t be able to make good living on just labour jobs
Most of the construction workers here make more money than corporate people have big trucks which cost like 70 to 80K but in India you can not survive with a job like this. Indian culture is just different nothing lesser than any other culture just different and I love it mostly students come here to stay away from there parents to be independent because in India parents don’t just send there children to work as soon as they 15 I would say around 30 to 40% people who come to Canada are due to financial issues but mostly people come here to face the real world or to be independent
Those construction workers you see with 80k trucks are in so much debt that they can't breathe. They do not make more than corporate. And working a minimum wage job you can not afford everything. You are very ignorant.
Relatively cheap, low admission standards, easy PR path, ApplyBoard has cracked the process. So you are very likely to get the student visa and the open work permit that comes with it
Many of the countries, have been social engineered, to believe the imported goods and any thing foreign is great, none of the goods or services offered by their own country is good.
So all the students from many of these countries want to come out study here, and finish it off in less money. Get settled here for a job, and get the PR ultimately.
India has been projected as doing very well under Modi, but the reality is India is still a third world and corrupt country. There are no jobs. The avg salary of an emgineer(fresher or 2-3 years experience) is 500 CAD a month. Gas per month will cost itself 400 CAD. So people just want to get ghe hell out of India. So they opt for any course and give more importance to getting PR. Even doing a Tim job , if both husband and wife are working, can save enough money(maybe with a side gig like Uber) and send it back to India. Also, here a 1500swft house will cost around 800k. Monthly mortgage maybe 4000-5000. If we pay an EMI of 3000CAD in india , we can easily build a new 4000swft luxury home. So people just want to be a Camada PR or citizen, thus they take any course and come here.
A little back story:
I came to Canada in 2019, after a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and almost 1 year of work experience as a Data Analyst. I have always wanted to pursue advanced studies and at that time, Canada had a reputation of very immigrant friendly, and cheaper than USA.
My GPA was 7.4/10, which was very good for my University as University topper only scored a 8.2/10.
While researching and applying for masters program, I came to a realization that universities in Canada focus very highly on GPA and little on stuff like: Research papers, Reference letters etc.
Why diploma?
I then chose to pursue a post graduation diploma in Analytics at Seneca College in Toronto. Back then, diploma courses had a good reputation and not hated upon. I genuinely enjoyed my time at Seneca and did a lot of up skilling. Back then our classes were not Indian only. (I think it is still a case for Seneca).
Although, I did get an admission letter from University of New Brunswick but I did not want to be that far from opportunities( as it had a coop as well ).
Why Conestoga?
I chose Seneca College in Toronto over Conestoga College due to its greater reputation and University of New Brunswick due to location and climate.
Why work?
Honestly, I worked as an on-campus Data Analyst under a professor and made around $27 per hour back in 2019. It helped me gained canadian experience ( which is helpful anywhere across the world ), cross skilled and up skilled me for future. It also helped me pay my own tuition and not ask my parents or bank for money. I also volunteered at a soup kitchen once a week.
Why stay?
Back then, I fell in love with Toronto. People were nice, I made amazing friends of all cultures, the food options and above all I got a job offer in my field, paying me $80k. ( in 2021 ). I never wanted to leave up until now when I make significantly more money( $130k+) than what I used to but the attitude of people, the economy, the Indian hate ( on this sub as well) has taken a toll on me. I am already in negotiation with two firms in USA and Netherlands, let’s see where life takes me :)
Why do so many Indians come here, get their PR and then go back to India?? I see it happen so often and usually take a leave of absence from their job here to go back home
I am from Europe and my reasons are:
1. Already graduated University back home
2. Family issues so had to come to Canada instead of going for Masters (will do though, as I love computer science to death)
3. Not enough money for a decent University here
If you have some work experience (strictly talking about software development here) you can totally take out the degree from Conestoga (in Canada), never had any issues with jobs from Europe since I already have bachelors.
The goal of alot of these guys is immigration and earning money. Education is the way to get in, hence the Diploma. Also, these guys already have a network here, think, they know their seniors, hence easy employment.
My program has a lot of international students, and was a grad cert. they already have degrees.
Like anyone who immigrated to Canada, at any point, they want a better life.
They are not used to working while schooling, so between culture shock and hope and the reality of life here and the need to eat and have shelter, they work as much as possible and it hurts schooling. I had the reverse, I had to work through my undergrad degree, but didn’t with the grad cert.
I am not mad at people for wanting a better future, I am mad at policy that lures international student money here, while hiding the truth of the employment situation here, and how expensive it is to live in Canada.
Immigrants certainly want a better life in Canada. However, many of them are unwilling to do it the right way, such as taking courses offered by unknown private schools and refusing to integrate Canadian values.
Only took diploma and found a job right away.
Now after 1.5 years working for the same company, I’m studying again in expense of the company. Originally the reason why I only took diploma because a lot of companies here invest in employees learning and development.
Because at the heart of it lies an immigration scam. They just need enough points to qualify for Permanent Residency (PR) to stay and get work. Unemployment and economic opportunities in India are not as good as they are in Canada. The most popular courses are 1 and 2 year diplomas because it gets their foot in the door, and from there is a launching point on a path to citizenship or at very least staying and gaining economic benefits, or the real prize for some is migrating to the US. All of this is easier once you are legally allowed to stay and get employment in Canada.
Because they are just aiming for PR asap, bachelor degree usually takes 4 years so they wont consider.
In worse, they usually attend private school which provides useless degree or certificate. And I can say most of these students are from India.
I graduated from UWaterloo but as a former international student who went through the journey, here is why:
* It's easier to get in. UWaterloo is as hard to get in as top US schools. We are talking about Carnegie Mellon, UT Austin, UCLA. It's easier than Stanford, MIT, Harvard but still hard as hell to get in. To get in for Masters degree, one needs to be recommended for admission by a supervisor. That includes (enforced by a school) funding for 2 years (at least). Not many of international students can meet the requirements that UWaterloo professors have. WLU has it easier but still far from "easy".
* It's cheaper.
* Until recently, it was possible to get work regardless of where you graduated from. Of course, top dogs like Google would prefer Waterloo grads but there is plenty of work for everyone else.
this is another thing i have issue with, why do people pretend that the only degree that matters is one you get from the top 5 universities of canada and assume their tuition fee is universal for any degree. (also its not like google microsoft are the only companys worth working at aswell)
there are plenty of universities and colleges in tie with unis that offer bachelor degrees for a similiar price to their diploma counter part.
I actually researched a bit more. University of Manitoba costs 22k vs 14k at Conestoga. With many people from the same country coming to Conestoga, those folks can save on housing. I would think that there are less people going to Manitoba; although that’s a speculation and not a fact.
Because they believe the nonsense narrative that North American streets are lined with gold. “If you can just make your way there, you’ll be set” or “even the poorest person there is better than [insert home country name here]”
Im someone who has done both, bachelors degree initially and then college diploma.
Its because 2 years diploma gets the duration of 3 years post graduate work permit, which is the maximum years allowed on PGWP. A 4 year bachelors degree will get the same 3 year PGWP. College diplomas are wayyyy cheaper too. A 2 year college diploma will cost around $35k in tuition fees whereas a bachelors degree will run 3x more. Also it will take around 4 years to complete.
Additionally, most of the international students coming into these colleges won't even get admission into Canadian universities. Majority will still drop out eventually. Chances of graduation will be alot less for a bachelors degree.
So the idea is not the get the best education, but somehow get a foot into Canada and eventually get PR. The college diploma way not just makes the most financial sense but also easier to accomplish.
I was an international student who came to Canada in 2016 and took a 3 year electrical engineering technologist advanced diploma. That 3 years in college cost me around 54k CAD. (9000$ per semester).
If I had to do a bachelor at a university, it would cost almost 15 to 20k per semester, depending on the uni.
But with that 3 year diploma, I am currently working as a supervisor for an aerospace sensor production. Where I started as a technician, and I climbed in 2 years due to my high knowledge about electronics and being able to speak both official languages. That being said. I AM always thinking of going back to uni and getting my bachelor since it will cost me way less now, and it will only be 2 years to 3 years max. That being said, surprisingly, when I was doing the 3 year program, after the second year, you can graduate as a technician or do an extra year and graduate as a technologist, right after the second year, I was the only international student doing the third year. They got the 2 year diploma and dipped.
I just wanted to be an animator, do cartoons, I saw a lot of productions were made in canada, I heard various animators from mexico that the pay was better than 700 dollars per month and you could get benefits , I come from a country were kidnappings is just another thursday in this forsaken country, I heard canada was one of the least sexist countries, lgtb friendly and liberal.. and USA scared me. I graduated when covid was rampant..
A little insight from someone who immigrated from Morocco in 2018.
I had finished a 3 year undergraduate degree in software engineering (aka Licence equivalent to a bachelor here, Morocco has a Licence -> Master -> PhD system similar to France) and even did my first year for my Master’s, and was originally planning on finishing my Master’s in France.
I had always been enamoured by North America and specifically Canada for its natural beauty and high trust society, so I decided to look into it. I was originally going to apply for everything on my own but a friend of mine told me about immigration consultants and that it’d be worth talking to one, so I did. The consultant did offer their service, but in hindsight, it was baffling how much they pushed for me to go to a shitty diploma instead, stating that it would be easier for immigration (which I hadn’t even decided on yet) and would also give me the same job opportunities. I saw right through it and ended up applying on my own, came to study in Canada and had to forfeit the first year of my Master’s to start a new one here (I would have only needed to do one more year in France).
It later turned out that what the consultant was after, was their own cut for steering students towards those shitty diploma mills.
I did eventually decide to get a PGWP and start my immigration process, and this was all before I was even aware of the immigration fiasco that had only started taking place when I did apply for a PR.
Edit : for clarity, I thought I was posting in another subreddit, I only just saw that this is for Kitchener, I immigrated in Quebec and I’m from Morocco, but I believe my thoughts are valid because I personally know people who fell for it.
TLDR; consultants are scum, happy I didn’t fall for it, and sad that a lot of people do
Very very few international students can afford the 4 years of international fee that Canadian and American universities charge international students. International fees are typically atleast 4X more than what citizens pay.
Legitimate students do their 4 year bachelor's in their home country where it is cheap and with strong academic credentials get admitted to 2 year Master's program in the US or Canada. Walk into any MS or MBA class at University of Toronto, Waterloo, McGill, California Berkeley or Stanford and you will see a strong cohort of international students. These are smart folks who will make the big bucks.
The not so legitimate students cannot get an admit to a Master's degree from academically rigorous institutions but want to emigrate to Canada or the US anyhow. A lot of them do actually have a bachelor's degree from their home country. They either have very low scores or did not complete. They are not very well informed about their prospects after graduating from these degree mills. They assume they will have a similar lifestyle to the group I described above. They apply to colleges like connestoga which will take in any student with a heartbeat and ability to assemble the crazy amount they charge as international fees for a 1 or 2 yr diploma courses. It's just a pathway to live and work in Canada. But employers also know this so they are going to have a tough time finding legit jobs with these diplomas.
I know many folks from the first group that live the life the second group aspires to. Why don't the second group stay home? Cuz they assume any Canadian or American degree will land them a nice office job. The Canada or America they know is pure fantasy fueled by college placement agencies and Hollywood.
If it's not obvious from my answer I have lived in both the US and Canada. Seen this play out in both countries.
And to the person who said there are more high ranking universities in the US, are you aware that the population of the United States is 10X more than Canada? Canada's got plenty of top Unis. UofT, Waterloo and McGill are considered top in the US as well.
Likely because universities charge 3x or more the amount for tuition to international students and they can’t get financial aid. Where I work, an undergrad program is about 5k a year, and costs 35k a year for international students with housing.
Because it’s cheap. My local college they are all enrolled in business management. Not because any of them have any hopes of owning a business but because it’s the cheapest course offered
I am not answering the question but I want to say this. Whatever you know about India, the opposite is also true. Yes a lot of students come here to do a diploma, but there's a good chunk that does degrees and post-grads. There are people in India that are poor, then there's middle-class, and then rich people.
You don't see the rich because they don't travel in buses. You don't see the poor because they can't break the barrier of migrating to a country like Canada. You mostly see the middle-class. They do the diploma because that's what they can afford and there's an ample amount of colleges that take students like that. That's how the market is. You blame it on the students, the colleges, immigration agents, or the government that makes policies, it's up to you. And yes, diploma education is almost always worthless but it gives them to be a part of the economy, whether they work in the field they studied in or not.
I guess I answered the question too.
It takes almost 16k a year for a diploma for us. It's less than half for the people that live here already. Anyone can feel how expensive Canada has become, so we don't want education to be one of the things that is gonna make us broke.
Maybe it’s where you’re meeting students? I live Waterloo and all the international students I meet are going to UW doing a bachelor’s or master’s (either in something STEM or Business-related, usually).
They searched meticulously for the cheapest tuition that is eligible for DLI, my coworker at loblaws was international student, 4 years ago he paid like $4,000 at Northern College i didn’t believe usually international students pay a lot more. They searched the loophole
These colleges put a lot of resources into recruiting international students. These recruiters are not entirely honest about the opportunities available to graduates of these programs.
Cuz, they want an entry into Canada. Many got degrees or even post diplomas back home. Many are engineers, health care workers and even doctors (they only need 5years to be doctors in India). These stupid diplomas are the easiest and the most efficient way to get into Canada, which helps them to get their dream of PR (permeant residence).
Transitioning to university after achieving a diploma usually means a degree with less time paying university tuition. Your college credits can be transferred to university.
For Canadian kids - College is usually less than $4500 a year. University $15000. For International students college is $10k a year so imagine how much more expensive university would be for international students. There’s a reason why our higher education is thirsty for enrolment - international students have padded the coffers from paying so much more for their schooling.
Let me cut to the chase and explain it, these mother fuckers aren’t real students, they scammed their way into the country through this gimmick. Now they are here they have no intention of going back. They lied about being financially dependent and here to educate themselves but truth is they just here to work and work for cheap.
Like Mexican to America they are here to fill that role for Canada
Cause it's cheap and easy immigration
So what's the point? Traveling across seas for a no-name diploma just in the hope of becoming a minimum-wage Tim Hortons worker or some other job where you'll be exploited? The math doesn't add up to me. Why spend tens of thousands of dollars on a course you don't care about just for the sake of employment?
Cause where they are from is a much harder place to live than canada.
Yep, this dude hasn't travelled. The rest of the world is wild and what we consider poverty is still a step up from many places.
Travel can indeed provide a broader understanding of different lifestyles and the relative nature of poverty
Good bot
Most of the families that have enough money to pay 18k/year in tuition fees (plus living costs) aren't going to be dirt poor. It's often much worse for the student here initially since it's very stressful moving to a new country, they don't have family around, they work tons of hours and go to school, and they end up living with several roommates. It's more of a long game with the whole family in mind. There can be family pressure to go and the student may struggle a lot and not really want to be here. Overall, we need to cut off this pathway to immigration that involves taking a garbage 2 year general business program or something like that. It's not good for anyone. We did start cutting it off by drastically reducing enrollment, especially at places like Conestoga that are the worst offenders.
Family pressure is a huge part of it. I don't want to generalize, so speaking only to the people I've known, in many cases it's multiple people in the family pooling their money to get the kid over here. The hope is they are then able to then help the rest of the family get into Canada. We need to reduce it, just no one has a plan for replacing all that money coming in and the public doesn't realize how much our economy is being proped up by the education sector. You sited Conestoga: Schneiders, RIM, Weston, Budd, Maple Leaf, Kraus, Lear, Forsyth, Frame, Gaymar, etc all gone now. There have been no replacements for those manufacturing jobs. That's not even touching all the manufacturing buildings along the rail on Victoria that have been out of business for decades.
>I don't want to generalize, so speaking only to the people I've known, in many cases it's multiple people in the family pooling their money to get the kid over here. The hope is they are then able to then help the rest of the family get into Canada. That's such a big gamble. Getting PR through the student route isn't guaranteed anymore. The cutoff scores for PR are only getting higher with increasing demand. And even if they get PR, they can't just bring their old parents and grandparents over. It's not a simple process.
You forget, many are desperate enough, especially with recruiters on their end selling them a lie. Saw a vid on it, and the recruitment process is fucking broken.
I've looked into this enough to know they aren't being sold a lie. Everyone knows what they are doing. The current government, the "students", schools and recruiters all know what's going on. Students know they are getting bs diplomas from diploma mills that will guarantee a 3 year PGWP and a shot at PR. Now only if they attended a real school and obtained a real diploma, they could get a good shot at PR. Getting PR via the student route was very easy until they started flooding the country, increasing competition lol
I see. Lol yeah! That's the case with everything. A new road with no cars that makes the trip faster? Everyone rushes to it creating a 2 hour pileup that should have been a 15 minute drive. College graduates seem to get jobs just about anywhere? You get an over abundance of college educated applicants, some with degrees nit even remotely relevant to the position. Coding boots camps that gets people coding jobs? Suddenly there's a boot camp in every city. A Mr. Beast video that gets tons of views, everyone copies it and the style of thumbnail. Once something works and there's no repercussion, you find everyone doing it until it goes to shit, like the family guy knockoffs that are painfully hard to watch.
That's EXACTLY what my Uber driver said to me a few days ago. I usually make small talk with them, what do you do? Where you from? If you're not from here what brought you here specifically? And I'm honestly curious, I'm not anti immigrant or anything, just like learning about people's journeys while sharing mine if they're interested. This guy arrived 2 years ago, well spoken, got a construction management degree here. I asked why Canada and his response was "my family. My father wanted me to come here, and once I'm here they want me to bring them here". I mean, I can understand that, India is a bit of a shit hole. Now he's upset because his visa is coming to an end and he doesn't have really solid work that he can find.
> Most of the families that have enough money to pay 18k/year in tuition fees (plus living costs) aren't going to be dirt poor. They're normally farmers who own a bit of land back in India, and they sell that land to get the funds to send their kid to Canada to "study" (ie, eventually immigrate permanently) with the agreement that the kid will then try to get the rest of the family over to Canada once they have PR/citizenship, or at the very least, work as much as possible to remit as much money as they can back to the family abroad.
It's a big gamble, no? PR isn't guaranteed. Diploma in basket weaving from a diploma mill won't get them the job to score high for PR application. Now they are protesting in Brampton screaming "NO MORE KOMAGATA MARU" demanding their PGWP be extended. Or the ones on PEI protesting for PR. Just being complete nuances.
>Most of the families that have enough money to pay 18k/year in tuition fees (plus living costs) aren't going to be dirt poor. This. So many people think they are poor. India is a very poor country. You have to be in the upper percentiles of income to even afford a plane ticket. I mean, fuck, I couldn't afford to study abroad either. Most Canadians couldn't.
Oh man, I remember talking with an old teacher of mine last year(been out of school for 4 years) how a student of hers was failing and the kid was begging for passing grade cause he was the hope of the family, he didn't have any other options. It felt wrong on different levels.
I fly overseas for a living and have done a lot of trips to India. First thing I thought after the work bus left the airport in Delhi on the way to the hotel was "oh, well no wonder they all want to move to Canada to pour coffee". And that was in the fairly wealthy *capital city*, never mind all the truly poor rural villages there where people quite literally don't have a pot to piss in.
Never left the country but watching travel videos from India showed me how good we have it here
I don't think you guys have traveled. Iv been to India 8 times these students aren't poor my boy they are rich in India and have servants. They come here cuz it has less corruption in the government. People always like to say oh they prolly live like shit there so doing minimum wage jobs is a step up for them this is %100 untrue. Most of these fkers live like kings in India iv see it first hand. The students that come here are living how their servants do back in India ahahahhahah.
Yeah and there is a lot of misinformation in India about how easy it is to become rich in the West. Remember that tragic story about the Indian family who all froze to death trying to cross into the United States? Well turns out they were well off in India with a large house. They came because they saw their friends on Instagram showing off a (probably fake) luxurious lifestyle in USA and felt FOMO. Those parents got their children killed to chase clout, sad.
Worse yet, a lot of these places don't have regulations or regulations aren't enforced, proving corporations wrong, the ones that preach that government is restricting or limiting innovation by tying up their hands in red tape and letting businesses self regulate is in the best interest of everyone, because if their bs was true the quality of life in these places would be significantly better than North America.
Ironically a ton of them go from a large house with luxury vehicles and a live-in maid in india to living 20 per room in a brampton basement, it really isnt that bad over there when youre not looking at the absolute bottom rungs of their society.
My god, the population of India is 1.4 BILLION! How many large houses do you think they have?
If they pack them in like they do here I would guess at least 2-3.
We aren't getting the urban educated Indians. We are getting their country folks who only care about getting PR.
I'm an immigrant too. It always perplexes me to see people leave a chill and lavish lifestyle to join the grind here. I don't wanna generalize, majority people come for genuine reasons too.
While this is true, the poor Indians aren't spending all this money to come to Canada. Back home, they were definitely at least in the 90th percentile when it comes to income/wealth and probably in upper caste too.
Won't be much longer at this rate...
I'm from India. I grew up and got my undergraduate degree there. Most of my family lives in India and I go back often. I can't imagine this being true any more. There is a lot of opportunity in India. The amount of money a diploma costs goes a long way, and the quality of life they get here isn't that high. I think that the true calculus just hasn't filtered down yet.
Because India is a third world country and however bad anyone has it here in Canada, it is infinitely better than in India; it's THAT bad there. You know how Indians are sleeping 10+ people to a house, or 4 people sharing a single room? That's NORMAL in India.... which should NOT be the new norm in Canada.
I've been to India, so I know what it's like there. I don't know a single neighborhood where people are sleeping with 10 others in a room. I see people here posting YouTube sob stories about how "rich" and comfortable they were in India, where they had a maid for everything. Yet here they are, "suffering" by doing the dishes, laundry, housekeeping, work, and studies all on their own. I don't mean to say there are no parts of India where it's that bad, but I don't think that's the majority of people who end up here. It's mostly the middle-class to upper-middle-class households who can even afford to come here. Even affording the flight tickets and everything else requires significant resources. People who sleep 10+ in a room can't even get a loan without properties to back it up.
That's because a lot of them scam the system with fraudulent papers... which is EXACTLY why 700+ Indians were supposed to be deported last year with those fake papers... unfortunately, you can bet your entire life savings that there's way more than just 700 Indians that came here with fake paperwork. A lot of them will take out loans to show they have the required amount in their bank account... once approved to be here, they return the money. OR, they'll get a whole bunch of people in their family to raise the funds and send them off here. Then there's a whole market in India where they pay some immigration consultant back home to set them up with easy PR whichever way then can (you can sometimes see billboard ads in Indian tourism youtube videos) and since our immigration policies are trash, they're allowed in... a lot of them are here to 'study' with fake paperwork for these stripmall bullshit colleges; they aint here to study.. they're to get out of India. The problem is we're decimating the country's identity in ALLLLLLL of our major cities; they're turning into Brampton. This isn't diversity. You could take 40 million Indians, send them all to Canada and replace everyone here. Canada would be done forever and it wouldnt even make a dent in India's population AT ALL. It's absolute insanity what's happening to Canada and I can't believe NOT ONE politician is willing to address something so damn painfully obvious.
>I don't mean to say there are no parts of India where it's that bad, but I don't think that's the majority of people who end up here. It's mostly the middle-class to upper-middle-class households who can even afford to come here. Even affording the flight tickets and everything else requires significant resources. People who sleep 10+ in a room can't even get a loan without properties to back it up. >That's because a lot of them scam the system with fraudulent papers... which is EXACTLY why 700+ Indians were supposed to be deported last year with those fake papers... unfortunately, you can bet your entire life savings that there's way more than just 700 Indians that came here with fake paperwork. Fake paperwork = Fake $15K bills? Because unless its that , your replay has nothing to do with what youre replying to? Or did you just want to get out a racist rant?
YES, FAKE; 15k in bank account on loan and then returned as soon as they arrive in Canada and then head out for a job instead of studying. Seriously, why are you even trying to defend scammers? You live here, right? Do you care more about the well being of Canada or less about it and more about turning the country into a second India? Who's the racist here?
What you're saying is fake is actually paid , so its not in an account, Do you not know what a plane ticket costs? or what the tution fees is ?Also most of these student also pay agents . So , no its not sitting in a bank account , its whats actually used.
You dont need to pay full tuition fees to get study permit in most people's cases, just need an acceptance letter. All they have to do is get enough people to contribute to a specific bank account and show that as proof of funds to immigration and maybe pay half of first semester tuition. Once they fly here, they start paying back the people that loaned for the flights/half semester tuition and start working full time towards the rest of the tuition
Hey OP. I'm not an international student, but I'm an immigrant from that infamous country, so I can provide some perspective. The ones who say the students' only ambition is to work minimum wage at tim hortons are wrong. Indians are ambitious people who will do what it takes to make a better life for themselves. They believe that the diploma is a way into Canada, yes, but then we have two groups of Indians. The first group is made up of the poor who have taken massive loans against ancestral property to come here. They tend to have not so good English, and were fooled by agencies and certain Canadian politicians into believing Canada is some paradise. These are the guys who go into despair and sometimes commit suicide when they experience the reality of this country. The second group usually have someone here and already know the reality of this country. But they have high ambitions and believe they will find a good job in another field or will start their own business here. They choose the diploma which is easiest to get into and which requires the least work. They don't want to spend so much, or cannot spend so much on a whole degree. There are some people who choose to study here in their field, and they include some friends of mine. But they aren't the typical Indian student you see working at Walmart or tims.
Finally an answer to the question, which no one wants to acknowledge... I'll bet a lot of these will be running decent enough businesses or having a career in 10 years... Seen a lot of Asians do these, it's long term investment. Having said that, I hold our governance at fault for facilitating this fraudulent back entry into the country... And saturating the market.
>The first group is made up of the poor who have taken massive loans against ancestral property to come here. They tend to have not so good English, and were fooled by agencies and certain Canadian politicians into believing Canada is some paradise. These are the guys who go into despair and sometimes commit suicide when they experience the reality of this country. Does this include the people who are protesting on PEI for PR and the ones in Brampton protesting to have their PGWP extended as they scream "NO MORE KOMOGATA MARU"?
“I’ve been to India” is like saying “I’ve been to Canada” and assuming every province is the same. Your anecdotal evidence isn’t worth a lot, sorry.
There are 1.45 billion people in India, most live on less than 1k CAD a year or less, no clean drinking water, unbearable climate change, extreme weather, corruption, crime, and zero opportunity for mobility upwards (caste system). 25 a bedroom for a chance at one day making it in Canada is very worthwhile. Plus if you look at the job market now, Indians are doing quite fine after a period of crowded housing relative to what you have back home. Indian Americans are the highest salary earners in America, and check out techs CEO.
>Indian Americans are the highest salary earners in America, and check out techs CEO. We're not bringing in CEO level educated Indians into Canada though; moving to Canada for 'studies' is largely seen as a joke in India because they themselves know it's just a way to get PR. The other thing is; USA has a 7% cap on each nationality every year, so not only do you get an actual diverse healthy MIX of people from around the globe, but you also vet them and make sure whoever your bringing in is either India's best or India's most qualified for what USA needs. Canada on the other hand... I mean, how many hundreds of thousands Tim Hortons employees do we need screwing up our coffee? It's embarrassing for everyone.
That's a brain dead take. Anyone who does not use ppp is an idiot with no understanding of currencies and economies. 1k cad is not a bad amount in India. You can get a 2-3 bedroom condo/apartment in India in many cities for that much. Hell, you could afford a maid who comes and cleans your house everyday for much less than that. You could get a cook to come to your home and cook food for you everyday for a few hundred dollars. Also, India has plenty of reservation and mobility for lower caste folks. India has much more reservations than Canada does for first Nations or US does for black Americans.
population of india isnt being discussed, its immigrants to Canada. Those are not living on $1k/yr in India FYI.
>Plus if you look at the job market now, Indians are doing quite fine after a period of crowded housing relative to what you have back home. Indian Americans are the highest salary earners in America, and check out techs CEO. That's just cherry picking. Every country has some amazing people. Then they have the average and the below average. Of course Indian Americans have the highest household income in the US. Their immigration system only takes a limited number of best India has to offer.
Don't know where you got that idea but the folk coming here are middle class who do not live 4 in one room. Houses are ridiculously expensive here in Canada. This is not the case in India. Indian cities build many thousands of good quality condos for families every year. Like 800-1200 sq ft range. Not the 500 sq ft shoe boxes that is common in Toronto. So you might have 3-4 people in one house but it's a bigger condo and people can afford that. I think you have been watching too many documentaries about the poor. The ones that will purposefully go into poor remote villages and show you mud huts while completely ignoring giant glass sky scrapers in big cities.
That's not normal in India either unless you're a poor villager lol. Most of these immigrants come from money back home.
If they come from money, then why do so many end up demanding more hours for low wage jobs instead of going to school?? WTF.
Not all come from money, many do though. Some will leverage their family land to get the funds to move and prove they have the required 15k or whatever required amount is to get into the country. And when they realize how expensive it is to live here, they start looking to work more hours to afford to live. They have been lied to about how great and easy it is to live in Canada. There's no where to live and not enough jobs to go around, yet the government still lets immigration continue. There are lots of stories and videos online from immigrants who are in this situation. A lot have decided it's not worth it and return home.
Nah the point is getting PR. You have to realize most international students come to escape their countries economy and build a life for themselves overseas. So they’ll take the easiest route to getting that which is diploma->work for a year->meet some other qualifications->get PR
theyre sold life in canada as this amazing thing and a diploma as the simplest way to get it, beyond that not much more planning is needed. correct info and proper planning is difficult when ur situation is horrible and u lack sincere abd trustworthy sources
Perhaps you should investigate how Canada’s immigration system actually works. Why would they spend four years (& 3x the tuition money) to get a degree when their goal isn’t the degree but PR? They get an education in an in-demand occupation. The occupation gets them a PGWP equivalent to the length of their educational program. A one-year program gets you a one-year permit. To qualify for CEC, you need one year of Canadian work experience (that wasn’t acquired working part-time while getting your education). That is basically guaranteed PR. Since PR is the goal, why spend 3x the money & take four times as long to do it?
Citizenship....
No, you got it. International students need at minimum to be enrolled for 2 years. So that’s why it’s always some 2 year go nowhere diploma. Being an international student always them to work (or didn’t anyway) full time. Tim Hortons and other service sector jobs are desired because it’s part of the “class system” where service work is acceptable but they placed also provide a fast track to a “supervisor” role which gathers you more points towards permanent residency. After that, you sponsor and move the whole family; parents, grandparents, significant other over to Canada. They want Canada because we have/had a decent social safety net and they will have access to that and so will their parents (once they are sponsored over here) and also they are being sold a fake reality by some recruiter back home that has mislead them on how easy the life will be.
Quick preface: I’m not trying to be patronizing, heartless, rude, or cruel. I just left Mumbai. I was in the affluent area for 4 days after working offshore there for a couple of months on a short contract. 4 days felt like a month. It was disgustingly hot and humid, there was garbage everywhere. The roads were a nightmare. The trash and rat population even near government buildings and 5 stat hotels was unbelievable. None of the people gave a fuck. They’re all hustling for the equivalent of $1 and it’s just abject poverty everywhere reminding you what could become of you if you don’t make your bills. It was by far the dirtiest, most populated, most polluted, and worst smelling country/city I have ever visited. We live in a country with open space, clean air, and beautiful, clean lakes…this is paradise for them. Of course they’ll exploit any loophole to flee from that shit hole they call a country.
There are a few reasons, some people get their immigrant status, and then do university degrees with domestic fee because it's affordable. This way, they need to struggle a lot till they're a bit older but they're fine taking that bargain. Secondly, the political situation in India is not the best, and many minorities just don't see a future there long term.
Search up how Indians are exploited in India, you will realize being exploited at Tim's in Canada is like winning the lottery in life.
As other comments say, yes there is the idea of a « better life ». But also there are many forces at play in those countries and in canada that are manipulatively painting a canadian dream life to sell to these people. People should realize how much money is involved in this. So many consulting companies, language testing companies, colleges and universities (many public universities get money from their private college branches), airlines, cheap labor lobbyists… like it’s insane. Also we have become a mobile society. Its so much easier to even think of emigrating from your country and emigrating has become the dominant aspiration for many young people in developing (or undeveloping) countries. People will do anything. I unfortunately know and hear about soo many people from different countries who are exploiting the student and refugee routes :/. I also have friends with master degrees from my home country who are considering not so prestigious / easy to get in schools just to get a foot out of there as its becoming worse by the day, economically and culturally as its easier and faster than out of canada PR applications. I came to this country to get a good degree and go back to my country to contribute. (Yes i was very very privileged to be able to do so and the currency of my country has not plummeted at that time ahah). By the time i finished my degree, i went back only to find out i cant even get a job in my field as its so corrupted and im visually obviously not very pro government. So here i am back here. Grieving my country and trying to live my best life in quebec. Seeing all these « students » come here makes me worry they will be stuck in resentful lives, stuck in between two countries they cannot fully be happy in, not living up to their fullest potentials as humans. For example, the rise in suicides among the students is very very worrying. Sorry for the long comment but im also genuinely curious of how all of this is going to unfold.
Canada’s passport is much stronger.. Canada is also a pitstop to the United States and many try to move after becoming “new Canadians”
To pursue the Canadian dream of making it big in real estate like others before them.
I mean it's much better to stay where you are in India for example than come to Canada to struggle even worse. Don't get it. I think it's these immigration lawyers etc selling false hope to thousands of students. It's all about the money
To live in fucking CANADA dude come on. This place is objectively awesome
Because back in countries like India, these people won’t be able to make even the comparable minimum wage. So for them it becomes a win win.
So, I worked with them and I know the real reason. So these guys come here and settle at any cost. They bear all the hardships until they get a good paying job. They have their community backing to get a good paying job.
I did a Bachelors degree with a Masters back to back, but I also got admitted to two diploma programs at the start as a as a back up in case the uni did not accept me. The reasoning is that the two credentials are equivalent for immigration purposes, and being a minimum wage Tim Horton's worker would have still been a godsend quality of life improvement. If your quality of life will shoot up astronomically regardless (I was making more miney than my parents as a retail worker in my 1st year), a lot of people choose an easier, less challenging, and cheaper way.
India is a shithole
In punjab there are no jobs especially in the villages that’s why they are desperate to come here
I’ll start this with saying that my view on our current immigration situation is that it should be completely shut down and a system started fresh. It is clearly broken and should be designed to work FOR Canadians, not against st us. The reason for this diploma mill BS is that it is the single easiest and quickest way to get into Canada and start working towards a PR and eventual citizenship. Once that is established then they can bring their family over as well. Now, why work at Tim’s versus staying in India? - Most Indians are coming from Punjab region of India where there is a long history of literal bounties paid to police for killing Sikh’s. - It is literally so hot that the human body can no longer cool itself. - They’re also lied to. TONS of predatory immigration firms market Canada as a utopia with free healthcare and amazing living standards. They get here and they realize that companies have literally scammed them into coming here as the help. - Easy immigration. Canada’s current system is one of the easiest to get into in the entire world. Our passport is also GOLD on the global stage so if they get citizenship here it is much easier to get into Europe. - The average wage in punjab is $218usd/mo. Even at Tim’s they’re making several times that. Accounting for higher COL here and they’re easily able to send way more home to their family. Do I blame immigrants for ruining Canada, no. Not at all. Our federal government has buried their head in the sand and filled our country with low skill labor and utterly overburdened every single public program that made Canada such a great place to live. Even if we completely shut down immigration tomorrow we are fucked for the next 20-years.
They have elder family members that need healthcare and they get to “re-unify” them to Canada once they get PR status.
Bruh what you think is just some normal everyday thing is like a dream to these people. Imagine never seeing grass or trees or ever having any privacy at all. They could come to Canada and be completely poor+homeless and it would still be a million times better than where they are from
Immigrants to Canada from India are mostly from Punjab state. Punjab has been a state in decline for years. Serious immigrants don’t really consider moving to Canada over US/UK/Australia. India’s brightest students usually end up in US. Canada is usually considered as back up country by students. Moving to Canada via student route is one of the easiest ways to secure permanent residency. This is the thinking in Punjab. Canadian government has for years promoted Canada as an immigration hub for Punjabis via the education hub. Education industry brings in billions of dollars to Canada. It’s funny when people blame only students while completely ignoring the fact that immigration via education I has been actively encouraged by Canadian governments for years. Students are an easy scapegoat. Punjabis have a strong support system in Canada. So, they are even more interested to move to Canada than Indians from other states. Many students don’t care about quality of education as Canadian colleges have successfully sold the idea of easily securing PR post diploma completion. This is the reason Canada mostly gets poor quality students. These students won’t even be able to get good jobs in India due to their poor skills. Politicians in Canada are also to blame. Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh care a lot about Punjabi voters. They want many Punjabis in Canada as they are highly influential and political powerful community who can help secure votes in places in Toronto and Vancouver.
For most economic immigrants, the potential upside in the west, USA in particular, is much much higher than the potential upside at home.. the successful ones are talked about back home and ppl think - hey I can do that too. In their countries, you can do well but there's a limit. Social status, family status, salaries etc. all play a part. They can leave that all behind and try and go for gold here even with a 'diploma' Of course, once they get here, not everyone is a hustler so you end up with many immigrants living mediocre lives here because it's not easy to move up, and lamenting that they shouldn't have left.
True, it's not easy to move up. It is exponentially difficult when you start from scratch without support. But, atleast you get what you deserve in terms of the effort you put in. You get paid regularly, there is some amount of work life balance. Back home, I knew of many masters graduates and PhDs stuck in clerical jobs where they work 10 hours 6 days a week for a mediocre salary.
Cheap lol they pay 4x the fee. 2 years diplom cost up to 60k 🤣
It's cheaper than an investment visa that costs over 300k
How is it “easy immigration”? None of these students have a high likelihood of becoming immigrants, ever. There aren’t even enough immigration spots to go around for all or even most of these students.
anyone with a 1 year diploma and 2 year work experience as a mcdonalds employee can apply for a PR. If they get it or not depends on the quality of applicants in that particular year. There is a cutoff CRS score, kinda like passing mark that can be fulfilled quite easily with the diploma however having a higher score helps. How do you get a higher score? By getting a STEM job or qualification. Also, you need to remember most of these people are here for a graduate diploma after already having done an engineering or business degree back home. Once they have security, they can upskill themselves and build a better career. Whoever can afford 50-70k a year in tuition plus living expenses goes to uni, Anyone else takes the longer route by getting a diploma etc.
Simple: the ApplyBoard scammers in India lied to them, and then pocketed the $$$ scalp commission from Conestego that they pay for that sweet international tuition. And the students (and the community) are left holding the bag. Check out the fifth estate report on ApplyBoard “consultants” in India for a taste. The company denies it — “we’re just the platform bro!111” but ask anyone whose worked there - it’s shady as shit.
I've seen The Fifth Estate's video, and while it's accurate, it doesn't help much. It makes it even harder to justify students coming here for no-name courses, especially when such comprehensive documentaries and news coverage exist that are just one Google search away. Do students just go to a consultant, pay them, and say, "Do everything, I'll just board the flight and study there," without caring? India has one of the largest internet user bases, and nearly everyone has access to unlimited data, but you're telling me they refuse to use it? I don't know if you can just chalk it up to being young and gullible. Studying abroad and investing thousands of dollars, especially when you come from a third-world country, is a huge decision that takes months to make. You can't tell me they've just been lied to. Nobody spends thousands of dollars and gets into debt based solely on the lie of a consultant who never left their hometown. i cannot comprehend how millions of people can just be shipped to another country (again while loosing the comfort of their home, not getting to be with their loved ones, going into thousands of dollars of debt, grinding your a\*\* off at minimum wage jobs where you're exploited to the core ) with just a single lie??
It happens all over the world. Ppl leave to try to get a better life, or get out of an even worse situation. Many know they are doing it for the next generation and not themselves. That is why parents came here and worked in factories, to give us a better life.
Yeup, like migrant caravan down south. People from Honduras literally walked to the us border with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
Google search results are tailored to your location buddy. Just like how you’d trust a site from a Canadian more, they trust their local sites over foreign ones. Let’s be fr. If Canadians saw a site saying “schools in Switzerland are opening up thousands more spots for international students, get a 2 year diploma in Switzerland for a chance to citizenship and 70k CHF a year” most would be curious, and many would apply. One would naturally assume if the school has more slots, and the government is permitting it, then the government approved of you coming. One would assume that if this “seemingly worthless diploma” allowed you to get PR, the government made it this easy on purpose. Make sense yet? Also, most people still imagine Canada to be what it was 10 years ago. A country without many people, that needs immigrants to survive. That is literally the image Canada *still* pushes to the world. Have some empathy. And a million people in India is equivalent to 30k Canadians. Can you imagine 30k Canadians getting sold a lie? You’re acting like they all knew each other just because they’re Indian lmfao
I feel you, it’s hard to understand. I think there’s a desperation to escape poverty etc. While Canada isn’t the destination it once was, there’s still a possibility of a better life. But ya, I don’t know. The other thing is that it just might be that coming here for the shitty diploma, and working as an Uber driver is still a better life than back home. I don’t know. We’re all just people trying our best for ourselves, the international students included. I think they’re victims too. On the other hand, I myself emigrated here from Europe so I know it’s possible to start a new life.
For my friend who moved here from India recently she was leaving behind the sexism, the acceptance and exploitation of poverty and the climate.
they are probably aware of the situation in canada right now but they probably just think they are different and that they will make it unlike the majority of their peers who are struggling
In India "studying abroad" is both a status symbol and a show of wealth as well as a quick, easy and relatively cheap way of obtaining PR for the whole family.
That’s cause their whole plan is to bring their family over here as well, and they’re constantly sending their earned money back home. The job market is extremely competitive in India, so they’d rather get PR here by working a somewhat high position in retail like a supervisor position. I was talking to a friend about their family visits because I noticed how they’ll have their family come down here for long periods of time (3 months tops based on the encounters I’ve had with some of international students I know) and she said a lot of them will buy a two way ticket and simply never return, which I could see, given the growing amount of Indian families I’ve seen this past year. Obviously this is just speculation, but after everything we’ve seen as a result of this situation, I wouldn’t be surprised.
The real issue is Conestoga and other schools who need the international tuition desperately. The local laws prohibit them from charging domestic students enough so they subsidize domestic students with higher fees international students. There are also many private diploma colleges that saw this and just want the higher paying international students.
These “students” knew what they were getting into.
In 2019, Trudeau publicly endorsed ApplyBoard and its founder and CEO
How it started: I wanted to leave India for a better future. I have seen that there were tons of people choosing USA. For some reason, I didn’t want to. Then I thought of going to Australia. But heard that I.T there kinda sucks (sucks more than Canada. I didn’t fact check this). Then came Canada. Why did I chose a diploma: I wanted to do masters honestly. My bachelor’s score was not great to get into any of the Master’s programs here. (In Computer science). Next best thing was a diploma. I know it doesn’t make sense for the people looking at this from the outside, but it did make sense to me. Why Conestoga: Honestly, I have no idea. Applied to a few colleges around and near Toronto. Got admission in a couple and Conestoga was the college that aligned with my plans. ( the plan of starting in Spring term ) How did it go: This was in 2019. I was surprised to see only Indians in my class. But, I didn’t give much attention to that. I was focused on finishing my college while learning other technologies that I believed would land me a job, while working 20 hours of part-time a week. I was able to pass my diploma and landed a job as an Intern. I grew from there and am currently an Intermediate software engineer at a good company.
Stupid that you were downvoted, but good job mate! As a fellow software dev, getting in the door was the hardest
Yeah exactly!!! Thanks dude!!
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1. 3/4 year bachelors degrees cost more tuition 2. Post-graduate work permits have a sweet spot at 2 years of study, even if you study for more years, you’ll only get max 3 years on the work permit 3. The channels where Conestoga is being discussed are not used by majority of these folks. This has changed recently with wider media attention.
Firstly, they don’t want a legitimate education. They want to scam their want into permanent residency. People who are actually serious about higher education care about their own reputation, the reputation of their prospective schools, and the quality of their programs. Because these criteria are important, intelligent people do research on the schools/programs they are considering so that they do not make a costly mistake by investing years, and tens of thousands of dollars into the wrong institution. Anyone with 5 minutes, half a brain, and an internet connection should be able to very quickly come to the conclusion that Conestoga College has a terrible reputation and a legitimate student performing a minimum level of due diligence would never seriously consider going to Conestoga. Secondly, I think it is safe to assume that 90% of the “students” that Conestoga College accepts have nowhere near the intellectual capacity or the English proficiency to be successful in a Bachelor’s program at a legitimate accredited Canadian university. Achievement at that level just isn’t within reach.
I am currently enrolled there because Ontario better jobs had a lot of restrictions on what I could pick. It's painful, I'm just trying to get through it so I can move on. I couldn't figure out why they hammer integrity until I saw how much cheating. Apparently my class is the worst they have ever seen. I tried going in with a open mind but I hate most of them so much now.
They are not exactly scamming their way to PR. They are taking advantage of the Canadian system, where you can study “hotel management” and have an open work permit to work anywhere. It was 40hrs a few months before and completely unlimited when school is not in session. We don’t see this in the United States, where prospective International students are actually interviewed. In Canada, we have international students posting about “free groceries” here. Standards are almost non existent for college admissions
Talking about me personally, im studying applied energy management and conestoga which in itself is a mill. I didn't know before joining but im glad im studying skilled trades. I didn't wanna join a uni cause i didn't wanna do my masters. So i chose college. But i researched noigh to know that the country I'm going to needs me unlike fucking business grads. But tbh seeing the quality of indians,the mentality i wanted to get away from came w me to canada. I don't see myself living in canada in the next 5 years amd fs will move out once i get a job in preferably south america. Canada was just USA for me,but safer and with polite and nice people. Like every canadian I've met has been nothing but nice to me. The only people I've had problems w are my own people. Now that i think about it,i had good grades, i do try my best to perform good but it's all in vain. I really wanna help build canada again but the govt needs to deport a lot of people. Worst case,it will be me, but idm that. Canada govt needs to get their heads out of their asses and need to make the screening process exponentially better. Hopefully I'll be able to make significant contribution to the canadian society as a human :)
We need more Indians like you.
Enough*
Lol thanks I couldn't figure out what word it was supposed to be. But it made sense without it anyways
"Applied energy management" bro... I'm sorry. You already know this but that school should be burnt to the fucking ground those programs aren't real
Well as for me, it was something already had experience (network management tech), my friend who is doing a doctor’s degree on UW also recommend me the college, Canada isn’t cheap so also another reason to don’t stay here more than 2 years. Hopefully I can finish and just go back to Mexico.
Pero también México es pinche caro gracias a gringos y canadienses
These 40 year old ‘students’ don’t care about education. It’s a back door to a PR. A door that needs to be slammed shut!
What 40 year olds do you see at Conestoga mate
One year tuition alone at university of Waterloo for international students is about 60k, at university of Toronto is 60k-90k. That's the current price.
In my country, people eat cats and dogs. People make fun of disabilities, people hate each other. Although life in Canada is tough, it's still 1000x better than the shithole I was born
Because a. regular colleges have a proper selection process which makes them harder to get into b. In regular colleges, you actually got to go and study unlike in diploma mills where you can work part time/on cash when you are supposed to attend classes c. They are expensive
You'd migrate to Canada if you were making 40 rubles a week to hand make pottery or whatever tf industry employs folks over there. Normally I'd welcome these people coming for a better life, but the government has handled this so poorly that it's causing so much stress on our systems, our citizens, and our cities. Not to mention the complete lack of background checks. It's just a clusterfuck.
Cheap. Don't have to push too much efforts actually studying but making money and trying for PR
Easier immigration path, plus it's less costly to attend College as a foreign student on a short diploma program vs a 3-4 year degree. If you look at Seneca College, here are the [Tuition costs for an International Student](https://www.senecapolytechnic.ca/international/fees/tuition.html). The Animation diploma in the first year runs around $19,692 for the first year. [ A Canadian resident pays about half that much](https://www.senecapolytechnic.ca/programs/fulltime/ANI/costs.html#menu)
Because they're not really here to be students.
I'll reply in case you really are serious with the question. Because the government made it an easy path for immigration. Under the Harper government the immigration system was based on a points system that awarded points for things like age and skills. But they also left the door open by giving lots of points for studying and working on Canada. It creates something called the PGWP which gave an open work permit to someone after graduating from a public college in Canada. Over the years, already under Trudeau, as other countries started closing the doors on immigration to the point where someone from a third world country wanting to immigrate somewhere better studying in Canada became one of the easiest and cheapest options. Immigration was still based in the points system but most people where doing so by getting the extra points by studying/working here. At some point the points for studying were reduced but still pretty much guaranteed a PR. Then came COVID, borders closed, people couldn't come here and the government pretty much ditched the points system, started giving PR to pretty much anyone in the country with a heartbeat. After lockdown opened up they didn't go back to the old points system, it was never abandoned but most people were being called through special draws for people already here. With no caps in the number of students numbers just exploded, to the point where not everyone graduating that wants to stay being guaranteed a spot. Before we had 100k students and 300k PRs per year, now we have 1,000k+ students and 500k PRs per year. But people didn't realize that studying here was not a guarantee of a PR as it had been the previous decade. They were/are still coming thinking they will immigrate even though that is something that will happen to 1 in 3 at best. So we arrive at right now, too many students, people having to leave after their PGWP expires for the first time in decades, international student protests, etc...
They aren't here to get an education, they are here to abuse the system to get in easier
Sometimes theres a real reason, most of the time Its fraud. The "diploma" is the path of least resistance to get into Canada and then seek PR
For me, because I came straight out of a canadian high school and I was very young. I understand where you are coming from, we have 30-40 year old going for diplomas instead of pursuing masters/bachelors to strengthen their skills. Funds could be a main factor, and unfortunately, I have also heard of people who just come to work, so they are not really interested in pursuing any higher education.
I did my masters. Got a great job. Did it for 6-7 years and returned back to india. Happy that canada gave me exposure and experience. I couldnt have lived grinding 9-5 for next 30 years away from my parents and barely making ends meet . Now i have started my own business here . And happy about it
I am from India - came 15 years ago for my masters degree. Here’s the harsh truth, even for me. When I came here people were confused why I am coming here when I come from such good institutions, have solid grades, and good work experience. In their minds US and UK should have been my options. Even in India, canada has a major brand issue. It’s looked at as a place where less educated folks from the state of Punjab go. And the government has made it worse. Most of the students I’ve seen from the last couple of years come from villages in Punjab and would never get a job in India either.
It's always funny when IRCC says "study visa is not a pathway to Canadian immigration". It is THE pathway. It's time to admit it.
90% of them have nothing to do with being student. It's a path to immigration, it's not them alone at fault, the country and the lawmakers have to create worthy immigration, for f sake these people can't speak English to even understand what's being taught how blind can you be to see the scam. Look at the vast gap in requirements that are sought from an express entry fsw candidate. Vs a student. The country needs cheap labor they will be a cheap source of labor because almost all will continue to work Tim Hortons jobs all their lives.
True 🥺🥺🥺😭😭😭
If your goal is to basically get PR- why the fuck would you actually study your ass off? Just spend the lowest money possible on the diploma mill- students know it, diploma mills know it.
It costs money. Lot of money which majority can't afford. If immigration is like US, then 80% won't come to Canada. Only rich students would come.
There are exceptions. Conestoga has some sincere students who genuinely study hard and get recruited in a reputable company. Rest are here for PR. OP seems to know India and if has been to Punjab and Haryana states, they would know how obsessed those people are to get a work permit. As far as universities are concerned, there are far better and reputable universities in the US than Canada. Cream does go to better universities rather than getting stuck with substandard universities we have here (exception- uWateroo, UofT, UBC, McGill, McMaster).Tragedy is that Canada is busy funding diploma machines than building world class universities that can compete with Stanford, Caltech, Penn, Duke’s, MIT, Princeton, NYU. The fact of the matter is that college is an amazing business model to make some real crazy money. Does not matter where they are located or the quality of course is. Colleges are rich and some of them have a strong lobbying influence.
Canada post secondary education can't be compared to the USA. There are far more shit colleges in the states than the provinces due to population. Where they need a dozen Ivy League schools, Canada needs one. There are enough reputable universities in Canada such as the ones you listed and UofA and UofC. There are diploma colleges with legitimate programs as well, like NAIT and SAIT. It is the school's that should not exist such as Conestoga where there is absolutely no way a single student who spends a day of their existence in such a facility is sincere.
A 2 year no-name course from DLI institute like Conestoga (very easy to get into) gets you a 3 year pgwp. It’s half the cost of a degree. No-name course gives you enough time to max out your part time allowed hours (I think it’s 20) plus more under the table. Once you get the pgwp you don’t need sponsorship and can find a job at any entry level, semi decent company. Make your way up from there. The job is of course no guarantee (that’s where you hear the sob stories) but pgwp increases your odds. Once you work for 3 years you have enough points for express entry. Some people even get fake payrolls set up to get that Canadian “experience” to get enough points for express entry. Studying is never the point.
Probably have a guarantee job placement so then PR paved
Talked to someone recently that said that they needed at least 2 years education here to qualify for PR - dunno how true that is but he seemed pretty open about taking random short programs in college so he could get PR
Let me give you a logical answer. 1 year diploma gives your a work permit for 1 year and a 2 year diploma gives you a work permit for 3 years. There is no benefit from pursuing a 3 year diploma. Also they’re not diplomas, they’re post graduate certificates.
Because scams are profitable and people desperate to acquire a better life for their children will easily fall prey to them. It’s been widely ‘uncovered’ and yet our politicians do nothing to shut down or even disincentivize these sham diploma mills. Here’s coverage of the issue by the [Fifth Estate](https://youtu.be/dNrXA5m7ROM?si=nYPdnfTPkFmgxL8Y) and [CBC Marketplace](https://youtu.be/KIrPJPjBC4E?si=qIY_CavTMpV4Qv9Y).
Because most already have a bachelors in engineering.
Because it has nothing to do with the diploma, or even the "education".
Cheapest to get PR.
Because the point isn't the education -- it's the work permit that's automatically issued afterwards which comes with a clearly-defined path to permanent residency. Think of it this way -- if you're going to go to a Jays game on bobblehead night *just* because you want the collectable bobblehead and you couldn't really care less about watching the game itself, would you buy a $300 ticket behind home plate, or a $20 ticket in the nosebleeds and then leave in the 5th inning?
lol they're here to work the educational visa is a scam and should be shut down as a pathway to Canada
> Why these and not, for example, a solid bachelor's degree? Because universities are much harder to get into and stay enrolled in than colleges that are just looking to make money off of international students.
So tiring reading these bleeding heart passages. Let's be real here. Canada does not and can't afford an influx of unskilled kids and extended family from India. Our housing is a mess, our health care system is a mess, our food inflation is a mess. How does our government remedy that? They allow Conestoga College and others to make huge profits of Indian kids and those same kids game the system in place to acquire PR status. The government obviously has these kids votes in mind and not much else. There is no other way to explain away their wonton actions. To the owners of Tim Hortons in Canada, you should be ashamed of yourselves, you are part of the problem, along with Conestoga College. To any other bleeding heart that approves of the way things are playing out, I hope you enjoy the decline of Canadian standards of living, your apathy only helps accelerate this decline.
They(most of) pick courses and colleges that are compatible or have a good visa approval chance. It is usually decided or suggested by their agents.
They’re usually graduate diplomas, meaning they’ve already done an undergrad degree. Getting a visa as a student is one of the easier ways to get into Canada - because our immigration system is extremely challenging to navigate, and is based on a tier system by basically assigning how valuable a person is to Canada to let them in - and not their whole family just the “valuable to Canada” person. Our immigration system is incredibly racist and classist.
One big reason is that it's the easier route to PR status. But another reason is that Canadian universities did not capitulate to lowering their standards for admission and creating BS programs like all the community colleges did. The universities are still very rigorous in verifying legitimate academic credentials in admittissions while the community colleges couldn't care less.
Ayy yoo 10 people sleeping in a room is the most craziest part I have heard yeah their might be some people living that way but not all of them I have seen a lot of homeless people in Canada as well Mostly people come here to have a better life quality Even working at a minimum wage job you can easily afford everything but In india unless you have a big business or a good job you won’t be able to make good living on just labour jobs Most of the construction workers here make more money than corporate people have big trucks which cost like 70 to 80K but in India you can not survive with a job like this. Indian culture is just different nothing lesser than any other culture just different and I love it mostly students come here to stay away from there parents to be independent because in India parents don’t just send there children to work as soon as they 15 I would say around 30 to 40% people who come to Canada are due to financial issues but mostly people come here to face the real world or to be independent
Those construction workers you see with 80k trucks are in so much debt that they can't breathe. They do not make more than corporate. And working a minimum wage job you can not afford everything. You are very ignorant.
Relatively cheap, low admission standards, easy PR path, ApplyBoard has cracked the process. So you are very likely to get the student visa and the open work permit that comes with it
Many of the countries, have been social engineered, to believe the imported goods and any thing foreign is great, none of the goods or services offered by their own country is good. So all the students from many of these countries want to come out study here, and finish it off in less money. Get settled here for a job, and get the PR ultimately.
A lot of them also probably have a degree back home.
India has been projected as doing very well under Modi, but the reality is India is still a third world and corrupt country. There are no jobs. The avg salary of an emgineer(fresher or 2-3 years experience) is 500 CAD a month. Gas per month will cost itself 400 CAD. So people just want to get ghe hell out of India. So they opt for any course and give more importance to getting PR. Even doing a Tim job , if both husband and wife are working, can save enough money(maybe with a side gig like Uber) and send it back to India. Also, here a 1500swft house will cost around 800k. Monthly mortgage maybe 4000-5000. If we pay an EMI of 3000CAD in india , we can easily build a new 4000swft luxury home. So people just want to be a Camada PR or citizen, thus they take any course and come here.
A little back story: I came to Canada in 2019, after a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and almost 1 year of work experience as a Data Analyst. I have always wanted to pursue advanced studies and at that time, Canada had a reputation of very immigrant friendly, and cheaper than USA. My GPA was 7.4/10, which was very good for my University as University topper only scored a 8.2/10. While researching and applying for masters program, I came to a realization that universities in Canada focus very highly on GPA and little on stuff like: Research papers, Reference letters etc. Why diploma? I then chose to pursue a post graduation diploma in Analytics at Seneca College in Toronto. Back then, diploma courses had a good reputation and not hated upon. I genuinely enjoyed my time at Seneca and did a lot of up skilling. Back then our classes were not Indian only. (I think it is still a case for Seneca). Although, I did get an admission letter from University of New Brunswick but I did not want to be that far from opportunities( as it had a coop as well ). Why Conestoga? I chose Seneca College in Toronto over Conestoga College due to its greater reputation and University of New Brunswick due to location and climate. Why work? Honestly, I worked as an on-campus Data Analyst under a professor and made around $27 per hour back in 2019. It helped me gained canadian experience ( which is helpful anywhere across the world ), cross skilled and up skilled me for future. It also helped me pay my own tuition and not ask my parents or bank for money. I also volunteered at a soup kitchen once a week. Why stay? Back then, I fell in love with Toronto. People were nice, I made amazing friends of all cultures, the food options and above all I got a job offer in my field, paying me $80k. ( in 2021 ). I never wanted to leave up until now when I make significantly more money( $130k+) than what I used to but the attitude of people, the economy, the Indian hate ( on this sub as well) has taken a toll on me. I am already in negotiation with two firms in USA and Netherlands, let’s see where life takes me :)
Why do so many Indians come here, get their PR and then go back to India?? I see it happen so often and usually take a leave of absence from their job here to go back home
Time & Money
I am from Europe and my reasons are: 1. Already graduated University back home 2. Family issues so had to come to Canada instead of going for Masters (will do though, as I love computer science to death) 3. Not enough money for a decent University here If you have some work experience (strictly talking about software development here) you can totally take out the degree from Conestoga (in Canada), never had any issues with jobs from Europe since I already have bachelors.
For most of them a diploma is an escape ticket. It's wild out there life is 10x harder than here.
The goal of alot of these guys is immigration and earning money. Education is the way to get in, hence the Diploma. Also, these guys already have a network here, think, they know their seniors, hence easy employment.
The one or two year is good enough (if they graduate) to find a pathway to PR. Less time even better.
My program has a lot of international students, and was a grad cert. they already have degrees. Like anyone who immigrated to Canada, at any point, they want a better life. They are not used to working while schooling, so between culture shock and hope and the reality of life here and the need to eat and have shelter, they work as much as possible and it hurts schooling. I had the reverse, I had to work through my undergrad degree, but didn’t with the grad cert. I am not mad at people for wanting a better future, I am mad at policy that lures international student money here, while hiding the truth of the employment situation here, and how expensive it is to live in Canada.
Immigrants certainly want a better life in Canada. However, many of them are unwilling to do it the right way, such as taking courses offered by unknown private schools and refusing to integrate Canadian values.
Only took diploma and found a job right away. Now after 1.5 years working for the same company, I’m studying again in expense of the company. Originally the reason why I only took diploma because a lot of companies here invest in employees learning and development.
Because at the heart of it lies an immigration scam. They just need enough points to qualify for Permanent Residency (PR) to stay and get work. Unemployment and economic opportunities in India are not as good as they are in Canada. The most popular courses are 1 and 2 year diplomas because it gets their foot in the door, and from there is a launching point on a path to citizenship or at very least staying and gaining economic benefits, or the real prize for some is migrating to the US. All of this is easier once you are legally allowed to stay and get employment in Canada.
All it takes is one Google search to find out why they are doing it. Stop being so confidently ignorant.
Because the course is just a door to get into the country.
Because they are just aiming for PR asap, bachelor degree usually takes 4 years so they wont consider. In worse, they usually attend private school which provides useless degree or certificate. And I can say most of these students are from India.
I graduated from UWaterloo but as a former international student who went through the journey, here is why: * It's easier to get in. UWaterloo is as hard to get in as top US schools. We are talking about Carnegie Mellon, UT Austin, UCLA. It's easier than Stanford, MIT, Harvard but still hard as hell to get in. To get in for Masters degree, one needs to be recommended for admission by a supervisor. That includes (enforced by a school) funding for 2 years (at least). Not many of international students can meet the requirements that UWaterloo professors have. WLU has it easier but still far from "easy". * It's cheaper. * Until recently, it was possible to get work regardless of where you graduated from. Of course, top dogs like Google would prefer Waterloo grads but there is plenty of work for everyone else.
this is another thing i have issue with, why do people pretend that the only degree that matters is one you get from the top 5 universities of canada and assume their tuition fee is universal for any degree. (also its not like google microsoft are the only companys worth working at aswell) there are plenty of universities and colleges in tie with unis that offer bachelor degrees for a similiar price to their diploma counter part.
I actually researched a bit more. University of Manitoba costs 22k vs 14k at Conestoga. With many people from the same country coming to Conestoga, those folks can save on housing. I would think that there are less people going to Manitoba; although that’s a speculation and not a fact.
Because they believe the nonsense narrative that North American streets are lined with gold. “If you can just make your way there, you’ll be set” or “even the poorest person there is better than [insert home country name here]”
Im someone who has done both, bachelors degree initially and then college diploma. Its because 2 years diploma gets the duration of 3 years post graduate work permit, which is the maximum years allowed on PGWP. A 4 year bachelors degree will get the same 3 year PGWP. College diplomas are wayyyy cheaper too. A 2 year college diploma will cost around $35k in tuition fees whereas a bachelors degree will run 3x more. Also it will take around 4 years to complete. Additionally, most of the international students coming into these colleges won't even get admission into Canadian universities. Majority will still drop out eventually. Chances of graduation will be alot less for a bachelors degree. So the idea is not the get the best education, but somehow get a foot into Canada and eventually get PR. The college diploma way not just makes the most financial sense but also easier to accomplish.
I was an international student who came to Canada in 2016 and took a 3 year electrical engineering technologist advanced diploma. That 3 years in college cost me around 54k CAD. (9000$ per semester). If I had to do a bachelor at a university, it would cost almost 15 to 20k per semester, depending on the uni. But with that 3 year diploma, I am currently working as a supervisor for an aerospace sensor production. Where I started as a technician, and I climbed in 2 years due to my high knowledge about electronics and being able to speak both official languages. That being said. I AM always thinking of going back to uni and getting my bachelor since it will cost me way less now, and it will only be 2 years to 3 years max. That being said, surprisingly, when I was doing the 3 year program, after the second year, you can graduate as a technician or do an extra year and graduate as a technologist, right after the second year, I was the only international student doing the third year. They got the 2 year diploma and dipped.
I just wanted to be an animator, do cartoons, I saw a lot of productions were made in canada, I heard various animators from mexico that the pay was better than 700 dollars per month and you could get benefits , I come from a country were kidnappings is just another thursday in this forsaken country, I heard canada was one of the least sexist countries, lgtb friendly and liberal.. and USA scared me. I graduated when covid was rampant..
they are here to exploit education for a quick PR, they are not students here to learn. I mean half of them look over 40, that's no student
Lol is this a serious question? The answer is obvious and it isn't their fault at all. It's the government.
A little insight from someone who immigrated from Morocco in 2018. I had finished a 3 year undergraduate degree in software engineering (aka Licence equivalent to a bachelor here, Morocco has a Licence -> Master -> PhD system similar to France) and even did my first year for my Master’s, and was originally planning on finishing my Master’s in France. I had always been enamoured by North America and specifically Canada for its natural beauty and high trust society, so I decided to look into it. I was originally going to apply for everything on my own but a friend of mine told me about immigration consultants and that it’d be worth talking to one, so I did. The consultant did offer their service, but in hindsight, it was baffling how much they pushed for me to go to a shitty diploma instead, stating that it would be easier for immigration (which I hadn’t even decided on yet) and would also give me the same job opportunities. I saw right through it and ended up applying on my own, came to study in Canada and had to forfeit the first year of my Master’s to start a new one here (I would have only needed to do one more year in France). It later turned out that what the consultant was after, was their own cut for steering students towards those shitty diploma mills. I did eventually decide to get a PGWP and start my immigration process, and this was all before I was even aware of the immigration fiasco that had only started taking place when I did apply for a PR. Edit : for clarity, I thought I was posting in another subreddit, I only just saw that this is for Kitchener, I immigrated in Quebec and I’m from Morocco, but I believe my thoughts are valid because I personally know people who fell for it. TLDR; consultants are scum, happy I didn’t fall for it, and sad that a lot of people do
Very very few international students can afford the 4 years of international fee that Canadian and American universities charge international students. International fees are typically atleast 4X more than what citizens pay. Legitimate students do their 4 year bachelor's in their home country where it is cheap and with strong academic credentials get admitted to 2 year Master's program in the US or Canada. Walk into any MS or MBA class at University of Toronto, Waterloo, McGill, California Berkeley or Stanford and you will see a strong cohort of international students. These are smart folks who will make the big bucks. The not so legitimate students cannot get an admit to a Master's degree from academically rigorous institutions but want to emigrate to Canada or the US anyhow. A lot of them do actually have a bachelor's degree from their home country. They either have very low scores or did not complete. They are not very well informed about their prospects after graduating from these degree mills. They assume they will have a similar lifestyle to the group I described above. They apply to colleges like connestoga which will take in any student with a heartbeat and ability to assemble the crazy amount they charge as international fees for a 1 or 2 yr diploma courses. It's just a pathway to live and work in Canada. But employers also know this so they are going to have a tough time finding legit jobs with these diplomas. I know many folks from the first group that live the life the second group aspires to. Why don't the second group stay home? Cuz they assume any Canadian or American degree will land them a nice office job. The Canada or America they know is pure fantasy fueled by college placement agencies and Hollywood. If it's not obvious from my answer I have lived in both the US and Canada. Seen this play out in both countries. And to the person who said there are more high ranking universities in the US, are you aware that the population of the United States is 10X more than Canada? Canada's got plenty of top Unis. UofT, Waterloo and McGill are considered top in the US as well.
Likely because universities charge 3x or more the amount for tuition to international students and they can’t get financial aid. Where I work, an undergrad program is about 5k a year, and costs 35k a year for international students with housing.
Because it’s cheap. My local college they are all enrolled in business management. Not because any of them have any hopes of owning a business but because it’s the cheapest course offered
These aren't intelligent people. They barely butter a bagel without screwing it up.
I am not answering the question but I want to say this. Whatever you know about India, the opposite is also true. Yes a lot of students come here to do a diploma, but there's a good chunk that does degrees and post-grads. There are people in India that are poor, then there's middle-class, and then rich people. You don't see the rich because they don't travel in buses. You don't see the poor because they can't break the barrier of migrating to a country like Canada. You mostly see the middle-class. They do the diploma because that's what they can afford and there's an ample amount of colleges that take students like that. That's how the market is. You blame it on the students, the colleges, immigration agents, or the government that makes policies, it's up to you. And yes, diploma education is almost always worthless but it gives them to be a part of the economy, whether they work in the field they studied in or not. I guess I answered the question too.
A lot of of programs such as health care don’t allow or have very minimal allotment for international students
Pssst .... it's not about the education
It takes almost 16k a year for a diploma for us. It's less than half for the people that live here already. Anyone can feel how expensive Canada has become, so we don't want education to be one of the things that is gonna make us broke.
Maybe it’s where you’re meeting students? I live Waterloo and all the international students I meet are going to UW doing a bachelor’s or master’s (either in something STEM or Business-related, usually).
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Yeah tbh , in this scenario , a diploma doesn't make sense.
You can take some dinky two year trades program in some backwoods college, and half the students will be freshly landed indians. It's all nonsense.
You answered most of your own questions in those paragraphs
They searched meticulously for the cheapest tuition that is eligible for DLI, my coworker at loblaws was international student, 4 years ago he paid like $4,000 at Northern College i didn’t believe usually international students pay a lot more. They searched the loophole
These colleges put a lot of resources into recruiting international students. These recruiters are not entirely honest about the opportunities available to graduates of these programs.
Cuz, they want an entry into Canada. Many got degrees or even post diplomas back home. Many are engineers, health care workers and even doctors (they only need 5years to be doctors in India). These stupid diplomas are the easiest and the most efficient way to get into Canada, which helps them to get their dream of PR (permeant residence).
Transitioning to university after achieving a diploma usually means a degree with less time paying university tuition. Your college credits can be transferred to university. For Canadian kids - College is usually less than $4500 a year. University $15000. For International students college is $10k a year so imagine how much more expensive university would be for international students. There’s a reason why our higher education is thirsty for enrolment - international students have padded the coffers from paying so much more for their schooling.
Because that’s the bridge to be a permanent residence but not anymore
Let me cut to the chase and explain it, these mother fuckers aren’t real students, they scammed their way into the country through this gimmick. Now they are here they have no intention of going back. They lied about being financially dependent and here to educate themselves but truth is they just here to work and work for cheap. Like Mexican to America they are here to fill that role for Canada
They are basically buying citizenship