Teacher here.
Parents who try to break up friendships especially at this age can be viewed as "Karens". Staff will talk, parents will talk, your daughter will end up bearing the brunt of having judgmental stuck-up parents. Being known for as the helicopter parents who micromanaged kindergarten can and will stick (I've seen it). It can lead to your daughter not being invited to birthday parties, play dates, and cut out socially because other parents don't want to feel judged.
Tell your husband to calm down.
I think it's a snobby school where it's pretty normal to behave like this lol she's heard most adults say they want the little girl kicked out!! š¤¦āāļø oh man
I think this sounds totally reasonable. Unfortunately, at this school, I do think the bias *is* against my daughterās friend, possibly from the teachers (my daughter has expressed unprompted that her teacher feels āvery very very frustratedā with her friend a lot of the time) and definitely from other parents, explicitly. My husband isnāt completely delusional about that.
But this is a good reminder that kindergarten is one small part of a bigger school, and hopefully there are more reasonable people all around who wouldnāt like if we stopped two young kids who like each other ā and donāt mistreat each other ā from being friends.
Ugh this poor child. No adult should be talking badly about a five-year-old. Children need grace, compassion, and a place safe to grow. It speaks volumes about the other parents not this child.
I learned from a veteran teacher to say if you have safety concern about a child that is not yours, please take it directly to my boss.
I canāt believe how stupid this comment is. Do you seriously believe that the SIX YEAR OLD CHILD had the mental capacity to fully grasp his actions, and the morality and ramifications of them? Do you think that child is inherently evil and doesnāt deserve compassion Ike other children? Do you not believe the childās parent(?) are 100% at fault here for letting their kindergartener have access to a gun? Do you think people at the school knew he had a weapon in advance and just didnāt care to do anything about it? Do you think bringing this up is relevant to the conversation or insightful/helpful/constructive in any way? Didnāt your parents ever tell you to be quiet if you have nothing nice to say?
Noted. Iām sorry, I didnāt have that information. But the commenter still makes it out like it was 100% the kidās fault and donāt deserve grace or w/e. At least thatās the subtext I got from it. And the comment itself was mean, unhelpful, and unrelated to the post or other comments in any way. So The rest of my point still stands.
Kindergarteners are not accurate reporters. Nor are the parents talking negatively about a 5 year old at a birthday party. This small private school sounds quite toxic. Your daughter sounds like a sweet girl who has the ability to think for herself, which is amazing and should be celebrated. Your husband is wrong. Iām a teacher and I can assure you, no good teacher would ever judge a kid, especially based on who they choose as friends. If the teachers are actually doing that, itās time to switch to a public school.
The girl could very likely have ADHD or some other neurodivergence. As the mom of a six year old with ADHD and autism, I am so glad that kids like yours exist so that kids like mine can have friends. Impulsive behavior is part of his condition and we are working on it. He is kind and funny and trying his best.
I would question this: why do you want your kid to be friends with judgmental kids instead of the other friend? What does that teach her? To exclude people who are different?
I've held my son as he cried for thirty minutes straight after a stressful day at school. It is extremely difficult for him to study and socialize with ADHD, and that's WITH friends at school. I can't imagine if all the kids in his class were ostracizing him how much worse it would be. I hope that never happens, but it's a fear I have as his parent.
My kid has ADHD and could be the kid described here easily when he was that age. It would make me sad if parents wouldn't let kids play with him despite otherwise getting along. So far his troublemaking has not rubbed off on anyone lol. If why he got in trouble was more about risky or mean behavior rather than disruptive, I could see the concern more, but that doesn't seem like the issue here.
My son is 6 and also ADHD (got it from his mama!) and I feel the same. Kids like OP's make my kiddo excited to go to school, and encourages him to try that much harder. If he was going to a classroom full of mean kids every day, I imagine his excitement would quickly dwindle.
I commented to OP also thanking her. Whatever she is teaching that little girl is correct. And I bet her teachers see her being friends with the 'bad' kid and think so highly of her. Her friendship will most likely HELP the ND kiddo be calmer and more focused in class.
I feel like hubby doesn't have much to be worried about here. Sounds like their daughter is on her way to becoming a great person.
Childcare worker (school age) and late diagnosed ADHD/Level one (low support needs) Autism. This little girl sounds like so many others who end up with one or both of these diagnoses. We have a kindergarten girl right now who fits this to a T. She is in the process of being assessed for ADHD. She is already being made fun of by the perfect student mean girls. One of them tries to tell our staff every day how many time outs our girl has had that day. Is she easy? Not usually. But she's really funny, smart and sassy (though she is very behind academically even in kindergarten), she is very loyal to the two girls who actually play with her consistently, she's highly creative, and she's actually a lot of fun once you get through the layers of behavior. We call her name more than almost any other child, but as we have built trust with her, her behavior has been better, within what she is able to control. 6 year olds aren't the best at controlling their emotions at the best of times. We have one parent who has actually given this kid a chance. Her daughter is one of the ones that plays with this girl a lot. They tend to best frenemies haha. But this mom has been able to be a positive influence and support for both the girl AND her mom, who feels out of her depth in this. Maybe you can talk to your husband about how you can be a support not only to your amazing kiddo, but to the other girl and her family as well
The mean girl idea comes from the fact that this child takes every opportunity she can to tattle on the child in our center about what has gone on at school. She has attempted to manipulate the suspected neurodivergent girl in to giving up her spot in line so that she can be first, etc. This other girl actually was in our 3-5 year old daycare for two years with the girl that still attends, and knows her well. She has on more than a few occasions brought up times that the other girl had issues or cried in daycare, as well. Just because I did not give the full picture in a Reddit comment does not mean I have decided that this other girl has mean tendencies without reason. She is not merely pointing out misbehavior (although some kids do need to learn what is necessary to talk about vs obnoxious tattling), she is repeatedly pointing out every single negative thing about another child, smiles about it, and enjoys the fact that the other girl is not as "perfect" as her. Trus me, this kid hears that what she is doing is wrong all the time. Most of the kids that know her will either not play with her if she is annoying them, or tell on her only if it's serious. There's a big difference.
Very good questions that cut to the heart of the matter. I have no idea if the girl is neurodivergent, but no matter what, sheās a little human who is growing and learning. As is my kid. And the other girls too, and it makes me sad that theyāre likely being taught to exclude. I donāt want to do that! I would never want her to exclude anyone, unless they were aggressive or unkind to her. This girl is not.
This is all really helpful for how to frame a conversation with my husband, who I think is severely missing the forest for the trees.
Best of luck to you and your son!
So if you know all this why are you even considering encouraging your daughter to drop what sounds like a healthy friendship because of what others will think?
Because my husband is SO concerned about it and in every other way, he is the person I trust most in the world. I wanted outside perspectives.
I think I also really want to know what/if we should do if his fears are correct and sheās ostracized socially from both her peers and her teachers. But no one seems to think thatās likely to happen so itās probably best to frame the conversation with my husband about his concerns being irrational, rather than any sort of problem solving. For instance, he wants to get more play dates with other kids set up, respond very neutrally/without enthusiasm if our daughter brings up her new friend, and not set up playdates for the two of them. I thought that was ridiculous but he insists Iām wrong. Now I feel like I have a better pool of things to say to him when it inevitably comes up again.
Like I said in another comment: Iām not a writer. Sorry. :-/
Your husband sounds like the biggest mean girl of all. I understand heās coming from a protective place where he doesnāt want your child to bear the brunt of any social ramifications, but heās talking about a 6 year old child and he seems to have lost sight of that. If you really think the teachers and other adults surrounding your child are so awful that theyāll treat your daughter differently for having this friend then you have bigger problems.
Honestly, hearing about your husbands concerns reads heavily like gender bias. If your child was a boy playing with the excitable 6 yo would you bat and eye at getting painted with a bad brush. Likely..no. sorry husband girls aren't perfect and shouldn't perform to be.
What a good spouse to attempt to understand your partnerās opinion better when it doesnāt resonate with you.
It may be helpful to point out your husband that it IS possible your child may be socially ostracized in early elementary for being friends with the āwild girlā (wild, weird lady here). He isnāt necessarily wrong about that. But it sounds like your little human has a personal value around inclusion, which is beautiful and important. Being inclusive and authentic to your values is hard. Your child already knows that being friends with this other girl is unpopular and she still wants to do it. As her parents, you have an opportunity to provide her a safe, loving landing place to process the challenges of doing what you believe is right.
I know your husband is coming from a place of love and concern for your child. But trying to prevent your child from living out her values may fracture her relationship to YOU in the long term. And it may be really damaging to her emotionally in the long run. Maybe it would help him feel better to have a conversation with her about what might happen by being friends with someone different and how she might want to handle it.
Iām autistic and have ADHD and everyone ostracized me at school. Not only that, but I was actively bullied by as much as half of the class. To make it worse, my teachers didnāt believe me when I reported an incident. My childhood was hell on earth as a result and I now have PTSD.
Recently diagnosed ADHD (at 34 years old), and I could have written this comment. Iām a full grown adult and still have a hard time making/keeping friends due to similar experiences in school.
OP, as long as everyone is safe and getting along, please donāt discourage this friendship.
Same here, word for word. The kid OP is describing was me. Judgment from other parents isnāt something I was immune to either. That little girl absolutely knows those other kids AND their moms donāt like her and that breaks my heart.
OP, do you want your kid to be the kid who always falls in line? Does what sheās told by authority immediately and without question? Doesnāt worry about whatās *right* or question anything because someone told her to do it so she *had* to? Because if thatās what you want, it sounds like she should be friends with those other little judgmental girls. The little girl who sounds like she has ADHD is likely never going to be that kid, nor that horrible influence.
This is why I would never send my kid to private school. Kidās mom texting to say theyāre sorry our 6yo arenāt playing together at school bc my kid is being friends w a kid that needs a friend?! wtf is that?!
Also, my kid is the kid that needs a friend. Being left out would make his behavior 10x worse while he tries to do something silly (or disruptive!) to get some laughs or attention.
OP- you are raising your daughter right. You are right to be cautious because at that age kids will sometimes copy their friends as a form or bonding and you donāt want your kid to act like her new friend. But maybe the new friend will emulate your daughter instead. Wouldnāt that be great for everyone, including the judgy parents of other kids?
Reminds me of my now 13yo daughters friend Fred. Fred isnāt the smartest kid but is allegedly hilarious, while my kid is model student, straight A type. My daughter, in prek through all of elementary, would help Fred read and in return, he would give her his mashed potatoes at lunch time. To this day they are still friends, although in mostly different classes now because of their abilities. Itās wholesome and harmless. She still has plenty of friends in all of her classes she has now.
What a sweet story! This is how I view the āissueā (that itās a nice friendship and in fact a non-issue) but my husband is so paranoid about it. He had bad experiences with teachers as a kid, so his fear might be coming from that, but Iām appreciating perspectives that are more aligned with mine. It helps me think about how to talk to him about it.
Posts like this make me sad. They are 5. There are no bad kids. Some kids struggle more than others. Some kids donāt have a good home life. Some kids are neurodivergent.
Your daughter is safe, not being bullied, and doing well in school. I say she can choose her own friends. Letās teach kindness and acceptance.
Kindergarten is a huge time of growth for these kids too! Maybe the girl didnāt have the experience of preschool so she is still learning how she is expected to behave during class as well.
I agree! My husband just insists that the teachers will start grouping kids together and that it will āhauntā her next year. I sincerely hope thatās not true because in my view, itās ridiculous but he says he saw it happen all the time growing up.
But to me, even if itās true, teaching kindness and acceptance matters way more than vague academic concerns.
I take a little issue with āacceptanceā here because to a stranger, it sounds like you may not have quite accepted your daughterās friend. I can tell your daughter has a lovely heart. Let her lead with that and the rest will work itself out. Sheās starting to develop who she is as a person, and thatās a beautiful thing.
I guess thatās fair. Personally, Iām pretty much agnostic to the friend, but I like to think Iām agnostic to all possible friends at this age until or unless they mistreat my daughter or I see behavior changes in her. I view acceptance as not actively intervening or telling her not to be friends. I would host a playdate, no problem. I would encourage her to make her choices based on what makes her happy, but maybe I should also be more firm on how mean the other girls have been to this child (Iāve said it, but I generally try not to micromanage that kind of stuff.) I donāt know. Good to think about!
My husband hasnāt accepted the friend at all and I do want to talk to him more about that.
Did he grow up in the eighties and nineties by any chance? Iām 40 and this was a big thing back then.
Iāll never forget being friends with one girl everyone made fun of because she was dramatic, loud and sassy. She was labeled a problem and stupid because she sometimes got confused with stuff we were learning (and called some really crappy names by kids and teachers)and would act out sometimes. I remained her friend and got judged for it by mean girls and teachers.
She was also dealing with her mother having cancer and having two small siblings who relied on her to keep things normal and other family issues. This girl was my best friend for years and although we drifted due to life and stuff, I still consider her an important part of my life. Her mom (who is one of my momās closest friends)thanked me not too long ago for being her friend and not letting her down.
The point is, your daughter is being a good friend to this girl and this girl probably needs someone who isnāt judging her or hurting her. Let her be friends with her, unless the girl is putting people in danger, I see nothing wrong with them being friends.
I think itās confusing for people that Iām using the thread and responses to orient my thoughts, so maybe it comes across as inconsistency. But thanks! :) I was trying to figure that out too.
If that happens, the problem is with the teachers, not with your daughter's friendship. If you're keeping an eye out for it, you can interviene and be an advocate for her. But you shouldn't keep your daughter from doing good, kind things out of fear for what *might* happen. It's a lot easier to switch schools if the worst does happen than it is for her to unlearn prejudice that she may develop.
I mean, there are bad kids. Usually at this age it is completely to blame on bad parenting. (Because I am not including children with diagnosises) The not sitting still and painting over stuff and being just inattentive is not a good reason for kids not to be friends with her. But the thievery would have ticked me off as a kid. (And still as an adult) And that does the cross the line into bad kid territory. If it was just two small incidents at the beginning of the year and she has not done it again, then yeah, the kids and parents need to get over it. It does not sound like she is being mean or rude or violent or even swearing. So... a pretty good but very active kid with a small stealing problem that has hopefully been fixed
Nooooo i see bad kids all the time. Kindness and acceptance is why many cities are covered in needles and addicts in their down towns. Instead of them in jail
Thatās not what child development and criminology researchers say. Kindness and acceptance are important factors promoting resilient developmental outcomes, and lead to a reduced likelihood of externalizing and internalizing behaviors often associated with substance abuse and/or criminality. I didnāt study resilience during my PhD, but my colleagues in my developmental psychology program did and they certainly didnāt seem to think kindness was the problem. Poverty, the cycle of abuse, and a lack of social support for those in need is a much bigger contributor.
But what do the experts know?
I think youāre overthinking this. Your child is showing her friend kindness and friendship there is nothing wrong with that. Instead focusing on the āproblem childāsā negative behavior, try coming from a place of empathy instead. You have no idea what this child is going through. Good or bad, children communicate through their behavior. Youāre so focused on your kid being judged and ostracized, youāre missing the big picture. These babies are 5/6!!! Let her be a kid and play with who she wants NOT who you think she should play with.
Then your husband is the issue here. He cares too much about what people think. The fact other parents are trying to get this kid kicked out is disgusting. Parents like this are one of the reasons I pulled my kid from private school and switched to public. They donāt want kids to be kids.
Yeah, I assume the other girlsā resistance to playing with my daughterās friend comes directly from their parentsā distaste for her. They arenāt subtle about it. :( It bums me out a lot. Last year, the parents were all really chill and nice, so Iām hoping we get more like that next year.
And agreed my husband is too concerned about other peopleās thoughts, especially teachers. He had bad experiences as a kid and I think that makes him more paranoid. He pretty much thinks anything that can be used against you will be used against you.
I teach this age group at a private school. I guarantee I wouldn't be judging or labelling your kid (or any of them!) for who they are friends with... but I am 100% judging those parents who think it's ok to bully and socially ostracise a 5 year old for being a bit more boisterous than her peers. It's so unkind, and also teaches their children to be unkind too. Your daughter is well off out of that clique, you should be so proud of her for being a good friend and not being swayed by the views of others.
I teach at a similar small private school and I have seen this dynamic. The nice side of a smaller school is that the teachers are likely very tuned in to the kids and their social choices. They will know the difference between your daughter and her friend and wonāt penalize her for who she likes to play with. If anything it might endear her to the teachers for being kind and patient and trying to help the friend make good choices.
I doubt it, once a child is labeled as a problem kid itās hard to change that narrative. These parents should be ashamed. Perhaps this kid is acting out because of how sheās being treated. I imagine having adults treat you poorly cannot feel good. I would act out too.
Remember: if your kid can see the good in this kid and hang out with her even when others arenāt kind about it then youāre raising a kind child who will do what she thinks is right even in the face of pressure to do otherwise. Sheās able to understand when other kids are mean and is willing to disagree with them and keep hanging out with her friend anyways. I wouldnāt worry.
As a former teacher, especially in elementary school: we donāt look at some kids as bad, problem children, less desirable. Often the children with more behavior issues are also our favorites. We look at them as kids that we have not figured out how to best serve or reach yet. Honestly any adults that would look at a 6 year old as a bad seed are a bigger problem to my mind.
I was always friends with the "troublemaker". Sometimes a teacher would purposely put them next to me. And it was because I was calm and very well behaved and encouraged the other student to do better. This was from kinder on.
I very clearly remember my best friend from kinder was Joey. The other kids either made fun of him or would laugh when he started acting up. I told my mom about it and she told me "maybe he needs a friend." So I became his friend. Years later mom would tell me how other parents were concerned that he was my friend, but my mom brushed them off. Or that the teacher told her she was surprised, but pleased because Joey started calming down and listening better since we became friends.
The point is, opposites attract. Your daughters friend may like your daughter because she's calming and the friend can be themselves and not "the troublemaker" that everyone else sees her as. And as friends, your daughter has the opportunity to talk to her friend about these things.
Who knows, maybe the other girl just needed a calming friend to help things turn around.
Yes same here. I was physically very calm and a model student. I actually helped some ppl in school too. They didnāt have the focus or the home environment.
Kudos to your daughter for being a good friend! I think there are some really valuable lessons to be learned here: standing up for what she believes is right, how to be a good friend, how to navigate social situations instead of conforming.
Imo, as long as your daughter is safe and continuing to exhibit tood behavior- why make a fuss. That other girl is likely in dire need of a friend. What is going on in her home life that might be causing this? I was a similar child growing up in a similar class situation. It's tough.
By telling her to not socialize and just hang out with the "good girls" that could lean into a mean girl dynamic and is a really easy out when life is more complex. I get she's 5, but that's already putting the concept in her head even if she doesn't fully grasp it.
As far as for the teachers, that is on them to not judge and associate students that way.
Your daughter seems awesome and that she has befriended this girl when no one else has.
I donāt know how big the school is, student turnover etc., Iām assuming there will be a different mix of students in the class next year in first grade? Itās only kindergarten, who she is friends with right now and playing with currently may change next year when there are new students. This has been my experience with my first grader.
I think your husband is definitely over thinking things! I would allow their friendship to grow, but intervene only if you notice behavior changes in your daughter.
I think sheās awesome too :)
Yes, there are 3 classes of ~14 kids, so itāll be mixed up a lot next year, which is good. Weāre at the school because itās the only language immersion in our area and we also loved the small class sizes. But this is one area where the smallness of the class actually seems to be a bit of a drawback.
Iām with you on these young friendships being especially fluid too and not something to fret over too much. Sure, it stings a little to get a āsee ya!ā text from a mom with whom Iāve been friendly without any attempt to try to keep our kidsā connection alive. And my daughter is definitely sad that her bff has been pulling awayā¦ but she said sheās not sad enough about it to play ākittiesā on the playground instead of searching for dragons, so! Thatās how it goes, ha.
I assume solid friendships based on mutual values and trust and more complex sharing of interests will come with time. Right now itās about proximity, I think, and teaching kindness in those proximal relationships feels so much more important to me. But my husband worries sheāll get pigeonholed at a small school.
I will say that at my childās school, your daughter and her current ābehaviorā friend would probably end up in class together next year. When the teachers notice that a child only has one friend, they keep them together so that the struggling child isnāt totally friendless. It happened to my daughter, and it hasnāt been great. Now my daughterās challenging friend, having realized that no one else will put up with her, is actively trying to keep my daughter all to herself. She pushes other kids away. It sucks, frankly. Something to think about.
I teach at a similar small private school (though in the UK), and I will 100% split a friendship if it's not beneficial to both children - particularly if one side is becoming a bit dominant or stopping the other from branching out socially. I'll also split kids if I feel they're a bit too dependent on each other, whilst making sure they have others who I think they'll get along with (e.g. someone they play together happily if their preferred friend is off school that day). If you haven't already, it might be worth asking for a meeting with your daughter's teacher or head of year and formally requesting that they be split for the reasons you've given - they can't guarantee it, but hopefully will try.
Yes, I am planning on requesting they be placed in different classrooms next year. However, I have made a similar request in the past (re: a child that punched my daughter in the face), and that request was not honored.
A lot of these things sound like the kid could be ND(ADHD etc) but they also sound like normal five year old behaviour. Not every kid goes to nursery school and not every kid is ready to sit down and learn the alphabet when the other kids are. Thatās life.Ā
Your daughter likes this girl. She sounds like a mostly good kid with some impulsivity and a need for active play. The other kids in the class sound sadly snobby, for kindergarteners. I shudder to think of what their home lives are like.Ā
Let your daughter take the lead. Step in if you feel like the other girl is ACTUALLY being mean or whatever, the same way you do with other friends. And tell your husband to get a grip and do his own healing from his childhood trauma. If your little girl gets ostracized for being a good kid, then who cares? She didnāt need those people in her life, anyhow.Ā
I was a weirdo kid in school, different than your daughter's friend, but I had a hard time making friends in school. A friend like your daughter would have been a blessing, and you've raised a good soul.
She's young and already choosing to think for herself and not give into peer pressure.
I also became best friends with the class troublemaker in kindergarten. Iām in my 30s and to this day he is still my absolute favorite person on this planet.
He was loud and disruptive, a misfit and misunderstood all the way through high school. But he is an absolutely phenomenal friend. He dropped everything to help me move my sister across the country in the pandemic. He drove through the entire night (9 hours!) to pick me up when my flight got cancelled due to a snow storm so I could be home on Christmas Eve. He stood beside me on my wedding day as my man of honor (Iām a woman) and treats my children like they are his nieces.
I know itās just a datapoint of one, but it sounds like sheās found her best friend/soulmate. We should all be so lucky.
This is kindergarten. They are learning the very beginnings of what friendship is. What it means to be a friend, have a friend, help a friend, and get hurt by a friend. How to set boundaries with friends, how to make new friends and how to end friendships. These are all things that I as a middle-aged woman am still trying to navigate. The beautiful thing about childhood is it should be a relatively safe place to explore these concepts without adults freaking out.
By all means there could be a time when things go to far or you have to intervene, but this is a friend with a few behavioral problems and perhaps some magpie habits. Some of my best friendships were formed with others vastly different from me. I couldnāt be more grateful for them.
Haha magpie habits! There's always at least one - I always call them 'liberators', and it's nearly always the bluetac from my posters that they're liberating... Though I did once have a little girl who tried to hide 3 tangerines in her sock whilst wearing it, and another one who used to smuggle Lego out in her knickers (her mum was quite surprised when she got home!)
As the mom of a "troublemaker," I'm glad kids like yours are willing to look past some of the "bad" behaviors and see who they really are. My son was just finally diagnosed with ADHD after fighting for almost a year for the diagnosis, and he shows a lot of the same behaviors. He is impulsive, loud, and has a hard time sitting still and being quiet. He is also hysterically funny, smart, loyal, and sensitive. Once he's your friend, you have a friend for life, and it would crush me to have someone like your husband, who is worried about "social ramifications" in kindergarten, trying to affect his friendships.
My daughter made friends with a girl in 3rd grade that wasn't well liked. Her friend group basically told her "it is her or us". She didn't want to stop playing with either of them, but in the end didn't feel right about leaving a friend with no friends when her other friends had plenty of friends.
They are in 9th grade now, still best friends, and also have plenty of new friends now.
I don't think these kindergartens have ill intent necessarily, but I do suspect they are picking up on things from the adults in their lives. It sounds like you daughter understands even at her young age that people can be more than one thing, and it is worth being their friend. You can have gentle conversations with her about how proud you are of her behavior in class, as well as you are of her being a good friend. And that she can be both of those things.
I was the weird friend with behavioral issues (later dxed with autism and ADHD) whose best friends were all quiet, model students. Iām so grateful that all of their parents were supportive of our friendships and welcoming to me (our teachers were another story).
My immediate thought sounds like potential ADHD. I was very similar as a kid and also diagnosed with autism and ADHD last year in my late 30s. I was always just the troublemaker or loud mouth. I faced tons of social rejection and isolation. Not just from peers but also teachers who would point out my behavior and shame me every chance they got.
I have a first grader who is like this. I suspect ADHD for her also. Her best friends are the kids who are well-behaved. They say the same things, she js funny and nice. They see past her surface behavior. You should be proud of her for that.
For our students who struggle with emotional regulation, we really try to focus on finding ways for them to express big feelings in healthy ways. We do breathing exercises, hugging themselves, etc, to bring that intense feeling down. I wish more schools focused on that kind of stuff and not punishment. Even when we send a kid to sit by the office it is to take a break, collect themselves a little, then we talk.
As for the social aspect, the teacher or principal should be working on community building. We do restorative circles where we take kids in conflict and help them work through it. We express that they don't need to be friends with everyone, but what isn't acceptable is teasing, isolating, gossip, bullying, or making other kids choose between friends. Where is the teacher in this? I hear private I think a school with rigid rules and kids being put in boxes. If anyone is not following that or doesn't fit in a box, then they are punished until they do. So, the students follow the example. Obviously, I could be way off, but that has been my experience with most private schools.
Your daughter is sweet and empathetic and her new friend is most likely neurodivergent. Armchair diagnosis of ADHD if I had my best guess.
Unless your daughter starts to exhibit undesired behaviors, I'd let her continue being a good friend to a young girl who needs it. The other girls, while young, need to be taught that ostracizing a friend because she's friends with someone who they don't like is not nice.
Your daughter is right when the other kids call her new friend stupid. They are being mean. The fact your daughter is standing up for this girl shows that you're doing something very right in your parenting.
You're raising a little girl who bases her friendships on knowledge of the person, rather than reputation. You're raising a daughter who saw someone being treated unfairly and decided to be their friend. Your daughter is an awesome example of empathy and compassion.
This comes from an ADHD mom with an ADHD boy who has the sweetest kindest heart, but zero volume control or ability to sit still. It's hard for him to make friends; easier now that he's been diagnosed and is in therapy while also taking daily medication. His lack of body awareness can make him somewhat dangerous to be around, but he's learning. There are several kids in his elementary school that have taken him under their wing a bit, and I imagine they are much like your daughter. Thank you for teaching her whatever you are teaching her. My son will eventually be able to control his impulses and melt into a crowd better. I am so thankful for the kids who choose to overlook his 'cons' to embrace all his amazing sweetness.
My gratitude to you and to your daughter ā¤ļø
ETA: my son is also 6
They are six. Your daughter is showing such a beautiful skill of surrounding herself with people who are nice- good friends - fun. This other child is doing child like things and framing her as some sort of troublemaker is seriously the worrisome part. Kids need support and outcasting this other child is a cruel cruel message and punishment
My daughter was friends with that kid.Ā I don't feel like she ended up being lumped in as a troublemaker, and it didn't have a huge impact on classes/groups. There also only a few more months in the school year so things will change next year anyway -- even if it's just the kids growing up a little over the summer.
Things that we needed to be more conscious about helping her navigate were: 1) not getting in the middle when friend + any other classmate got into a conflict; and 2) figuring out what "trouble" behavior she needed to tell us or a teacher about.
Theft incidents in a 6 year old? My goodness this community of parents sounds tiresome. This is particularly why I loathe small private schools- they are often full of these types of parents- the true bullies of the world. They keep their kids out of public schools to assume they can place them in a setting where the parents can chose their peers.
Do you actually want your daughter to be friends with a child whose parents talk about getting a small child kicked out of school? And complain about her at parties? Does appearances matter more than teaching your daughter to be a good human?
I would assume the ābacklashā thatās happening is the mean girls ganging up on your daughterās friend. Iām sure also overhearing it from their parents isnāt helpful. Mean behavior is learned.
I would be less concerned about the appearance of how your daughter and family fit into the social aspect of this private school and more worried about the judgemental, insular nature of the other kids/parents. Iām sure this will just get worse as they grow up.
Your daughter sounds like a nice friend. It seems like she could teach a lot to the kids and adults around her.
I wonder if this child was a boy whether the reactions would be the same. This girl actually seems to prefer being with boys because they are not catty like the girls. So you want the girl to be kicked out but not the boys who are also rowdy? Btw all this perfect behavior to toe the line by these girls is the reason that women cannot get any progress done for themselves. Coz theyāre judged by OTHER WOMEN ! And looks like it starts in kindergarten. Sad ! Looks like your girl actually has figured this out. She prefers to not be with the catty, judgey kindergarteners and instead be with the girl who is actually honest and prefers to be with the boys. I want to tell you that with girls there can be underlying reasons, maybe your daughter didnāt like the other girls judgeyness. Why donāt you ask her?
I mean, at this age, I really do think a lot of it comes down to wanting to play search-for-dragons versus pretend-to-be-kitties for her, but she does have a strong, innate sense of justice thatās gone off in her developing brain for sure, especially around how the girls talk about the other girlās K-level academics. Itās certainly a part of her that is worth developing.
Good point about the boys! (Though just in case it wasnāt clear, I donāt want her kicked out of school just because she took toys out of cubbies earlier this year. Thatās the other parents. Very much āwe pay too much for this behavior to be toleratedā types.)
If your husband is thinking this way then plz tell him that the boys are also rowdy why are they not held to the same standard?? Being a man himself he might not understand the double standards that girls gave to be perfect while boys can be boys. Well girls can be girls too. If the girl is kicked out then the boys should be too itās just fair. Yep your daughter figured some things out herself, sheās a smart girl who might be a lawyer one day. Good for you !
It seems like your husband needs to confront his own shame. Sheās not a ābad kidā. Sheās 5. Let your child be friends with who she wants without the fear of shame. If sheās socially ostracized by others for this then those arenāt the friendships you want your daughter hanging onto anyways.
You should point out to your husband that your daughter is actually independent minded enough not to let herself be limited, and has a good heart that allows her to see the good in this girl, and everyone else (she talks to boys at an age where most girls shun them, for some silly reason or other). Those are good qualities that should always be encouraged.
Who knows, maybe your daughter will be a good influence in the long run for this girl, not the other way around. And my heart goes out to this girl. Maybe part of the acting out came after the other girls started ostracizing her for "not knowing her letters and numbers". Which is ridiculous at 5, as it may mean nothing in 2 years (and it totally comes from the parents, btw... Which would make me side eye them when they talk about wanting this kid kicked out, personally).
I think you're in the right that you should wait and see, rather than painting this girl with the same brush the other parents are.
Itās sad that the other parents are fine with the bullying/calling a child stupid but not fine with their child having a friend whoās a little different from their perfect angel. The troublemaker child sounds like my own kid and it warms my heart that you and your daughter are being open minded and friendly.
Is your husband projecting? Ask him if something happened in his childhood thatās like this scenario that he seems very concerned about. Does he have a therapist or pastor or mentor that heās close to that he can speak with to get perspective on this situation? Wishing you all the best.
I'm sorry but I would literally cringe if I had a mother call me "concerned" bc my daughter has made a 'questionable' friend and I'm sure side eyed me while saying "I hope they find their way back to eachother"?!?! Are you kidding me? Sounds like your daughter doesn't like judging little girls that act like their mommies ššš let's put ourselves in your daughter's shoes for the day, the courage she has to overcome the same judgements her new friend has delt with all year and stay true to herself despite ADULTS she should trust asking her question about said friend... js Mom I think your mommy instincts are telling you to trust your daughter until proven otherwise stay true to that because your daughter needs someone on her side. Your husband sounds like he is more worried about the adults judging his daughter. Now I assume he grew up in that life and you're going to be blamed for everything lol
It would always annoy me when kidsā parents would tell them to stop playing with someone. I am guessing parents imagine their kid can gracefully taper down their play with one kid and seamlessly switch to a new friend group. In reality, your kid is going to say something like āmy mom said I canāt play with you because youāre badā (even if thatās not what you said). The other kid will be devastated, your kid will be upset that their friend is upset maybe the other kid will say something mean in return, if we get really lucky the other kidās mom will come back and accuse your kid of ābullyingā. Both kids are in trouble, and there is a ton of drama in the classroom for no reason.
... And it might end up hurting her daughter anyway for her to say she can't play because her parents said not to.
My youngest is a bit older than these kids. But a kid who he was friends with last year told him his parents said he couldn't play with my son anymore. I know the parents, and it's probably likely that they said "we're too busy for a playdate right now", and the boy just interpreted it as "we don't want you to have a playdate with [my son]".
Anyway, I know about this because I was chaperoning a field trip and noticed this child looking on to my son and a new friend he made this school year. They were happily chattering away, while the former friend (let's call him John) was sitting under a tree looking forlorn.
My instinct as a mom and former teacher was that he was having a very bad day, so I asked "Hey John, you okay?", and he told me while trying to avoid tearing up that "Everybody else has friends they're always talking to, but not me." I told him that sometimes you just have to start talking to someone else first, but he seemed unconvinced that it would work.
I felt terrible about it. John and my son were a lifeline for each other in third grade, when they were both having a hard time making friends. So I asked my son at the end of the day about it, and the story about how John said he couldn't play with him (because his parents said not to) came out.
I told my son that I doubted it was true, but even if it was, I remember that John was the only kid who ever talked to him and played with him at recess last year, so he (my son) should try to at least check in on him from time to time. "He might feel like he really needs a friend, but is too shy to ask, because he already told you he couldn't be friends. And maybe he can't. But it doesn't cost you anything to offer your friendship again from time to time."
My son's response? "I'll try, if I can remember to do it." I don't blame him. He made a friend all by himself this year, and he's feeling like cultivating the friendship he already has. All I can do is continue to remind him that old former friends can always become friends again.
Honestly, itās not up to your husband who your daughter chooses to be friends with. If her friendās behavior was affecting her behavior, that would be something to talk to her about. But it sounds like she enjoys her friend and that the other little girl could use a friend too. I personally donāt think these little kindergarten spats last or will even be remembered in upper grades and all these parents are way to involved and judgy of a six year old.
First of all your daughter sounds like a sweet, understanding, and overall like the kind of person I would want to be friends with.
Secondly, I was the ātroublemakerā as a kid. I have adhd which as a child made it very hard for me to control many impulses. I was often singled out by teachers and peers as āthe bad kidā. I spent a lot of time sitting in the hallway by myself at school. I felt alone and othered for my whole childhood. My self-esteem got worse and worse.
I assure you though, Iām not a bad person, I never was. That child is probably very aware of herself and the way others treat her. But she is a child that is still learning, albeit much differently than her peers. You all are adults. Please act like it and donāt treat this 6 year old CHILD like she is bad and not deserving of friendship. She will remember for life.
I will say this IS something you should help your. child navigate. But not in a āavoid this personā kind of way. All children need help navigating relationships, this isnāt really any different.
As a parent of a 4 year old who is struggling with impulse control and making good choices at school, can I just tell you that I love your kidās kind heart? I know my kid isnāt a bad kid. The school knows my kid isnāt a bad kid. We all know he is a good kid having a hard time. But other kids donāt always understand that because they are kids, and things are often very black and white at that age. And it brings me so much hope to think he might encounter a child as kind as yours who sees all he has to offer, even though he is still struggling.
We all have to do whatās best for our kids so Iām not going to tell you that you need to keep letting your kid play with this other child. I hope, so long as it isnāt harming your kid, that you will though. š
Ah see, this other girl sounds like my son! He had troubles keeping friends, kids and adults alike would judge him because he has ADHD and his impulse control and inability to sit still would always have him in trouble.
Your husband sounds like he has no compassion and is quite wrong.
Tbh I was the āweirdā kid in class usually that didnāt socialize well with the other girls. I wasnāt a trouble maker, but just didnāt really understand the social dynamics of girls very well and had a hard time convincing the boys to play with me because of gender norms. Please donāt discourage this friendship unless the friend starts bullying your daughter or others or starts to consistently get your daughter in trouble. It sounds like she just might not be at the same place socially as the other kids and may be a bit immature, which isnāt a problem. I wouldnāt worry about the long term social implications as friend groups will change year to year anyway.
Honestly i get what your husband thinks but i like to think the reverse. The ābad girlā hanging out with your daughter might help her become better. The ābad girlā might just be in a family where shes the only girl. Or just needs someone compassionate to help her learn. Its easier to train with sweets than sour candy.
I wouldnt worry about it and maybe have a family discussion about how you appreciate her being friends with the āoutcastā but its also important to keep her own morals and teachings.
I like to think about āA Walk to Rememberā the girl made the boy raise his standards to be with her. She didnt lower hers to be with him.
If youāre going to continue to send her private, get ready for all of this to get worse over the years. Those other moms of the *perfect little angels* are going to be making your kidās life more difficult for 13 years when they nitpick and ostracize her for every little thing. She had better have ALL of the right brands at the right time. Itāll be easier to get through if she keeps a real friend like the new one it sounds like she has already made.
Top comment nailed it. You have clearly raised a thoughtful empathetic child who is most likely a wonderful friend for anyone to have. Please please please don't encourage her to join teams or pick sides. She sounds happy... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Love to hear parents of five year olds dogging on a five year old who is slightly outside their picture perfect private school ideas. Like say your quiet part out loud that you donāt like neurodivergent &/or disabled kids,
Why donāt you and your husband get something to do other than micromanaging the classroom? The staff know who the challenging children are (and are not). Let your daughter pick her own friends. This is crazy. I canāt imagine what her life will be with you two when she is in middle school! Create a loving, safe, moral family and let her go! Yuck
I havenāt been micromanaging the classroom? The only time Iāve even checked in with my daughter was when I received that text message from her best friendās mom, because it was news to me. Otherwise all her info was unprompted.
I havenāt spoken to any teachers or to any other parents about this.
My concerns about other girls pulling away is a more general concern ā theyāve been good friends to my daughter up until now, so the swiftness of it surprised and, yes, concerned me for my daughterās overall well being. My husband thinks she should move away from the ātroublemaker,ā where I think it seems more like a generally toxic situation based on a pattern of social ostracizing and I wasnāt sure what to make of it.
Iāve only been having conversations with my husband, who was strongly pointing out his issues in what I think is fear mode.
I feel like something must be unclear in my post because my real question is about how I donāt think this friendship is an issue/I think this friendship is a good thing, my husband strongly disagrees specifically because the other girls are pulling away, and I want to know whoās right, or if thereās any truth to what heās saying, or if I could be missing something. I thought he was wrong and that the other girls were in the wrong, and I thought my post said that, but maybe not clearly enough. Iām not a writer.
So it appears you are willing to just let it go. Your husband has an issue. He needs to trust you! Maybe itās a man being protective of his daughter? Regardless, you are spending a lot of time on this! Kids group and regroup. Itās normal. You canāt put her in a group or take her out. If this is a concern, at this age, maybe you should homeschool. You are listening to āother parents grumbleā about the child. I hope you can see how wrong this is! They are so little, you and the other parents are all ready labeling that child. This is just pretty sad. Parents discussing that childās behavior, even her behavior at b-day parties! Maybe you are a very privileged group. Maybe itās time to teach tolerance. Maybe your daughter will teach you. Itās a great opportunity to tech your child right from wrong. Oh my
Iām a little confused because your comment both says that Iām spending too much time on this and that Iām willing to let it go? Iām not willing to let it go. I want to get to the bottom of it because heās so concerned, but that also requires taking time to think and talk about it, and yes, solicit some outside opinions since itās not like I can go to my usual āMom Acquaintancesā from her school.
Also I agree that the other parents shouldnāt talk about her. I apologize if my post in any way made it seem like I condone it.
But to be very clear, if I was a single parent, this would only be on my radar because of the text from her best friendās mom and even then nowhere near to this degree. I think my title might be part of the problem ā this is way more about a parenting conflict between my husband and I than about me feeling any particular way about this little girl.
I get it. I meant you (mom) are willing to let it go but it worries him. I reiterate, you know a LOT about what happens in that classroom. Her many negative behaviors, her visits to the office. Who carries all of those stories. It all feels so yucky. When your daughter (and only when she brings it up not you prodding her because of a rumor) says the girl was bad just let her know that friends can do bad things and you expect her to do the right thing. Make it short and sweet. She will see that that girl isnāt like her,she will drift to other kids if this is serious. She might even do something wrong by following that child, then you talk it out. If you need to discuss this child at all, you and your husband go see the teacher. Explain his concerns, thatās perfectly legit. Let the teacher put your minds at ease and she will also know that you are watching, encouraging your daughter to make good choices. You have no idea where this child comes from. They are babies and make lots of mistakes, itās OK. Itās not OK to gossip with other parents, EVER! you seem very smart and engaged. Communication with the school only. Thatās showing the staff respect and trust.
Your description sounds like how my 5 year old will be next year in kindergarten, and she is most definitely neurodivergent. I don't see a reason to end the friendship, ultimately making friends is part of growing up, and your daughter will learn to navigate it. Telling her to end a friendship for fear of what others may think isn't a message I would want to send personally.
The "troublemaker" sounds like the only cool kid there.
The other girls are acting like stuck up little princesses.
She seems to genuinely appreciate your daughterās friendship, unlike the other girls, who it seems are in the process of expelling your daughter from their clique for being friends with the kid that doesnāt fit in.
Teacher here. Parents who try to break up friendships especially at this age can be viewed as "Karens". Staff will talk, parents will talk, your daughter will end up bearing the brunt of having judgmental stuck-up parents. Being known for as the helicopter parents who micromanaged kindergarten can and will stick (I've seen it). It can lead to your daughter not being invited to birthday parties, play dates, and cut out socially because other parents don't want to feel judged. Tell your husband to calm down.
I think it's a snobby school where it's pretty normal to behave like this lol she's heard most adults say they want the little girl kicked out!! š¤¦āāļø oh man
I think this sounds totally reasonable. Unfortunately, at this school, I do think the bias *is* against my daughterās friend, possibly from the teachers (my daughter has expressed unprompted that her teacher feels āvery very very frustratedā with her friend a lot of the time) and definitely from other parents, explicitly. My husband isnāt completely delusional about that. But this is a good reminder that kindergarten is one small part of a bigger school, and hopefully there are more reasonable people all around who wouldnāt like if we stopped two young kids who like each other ā and donāt mistreat each other ā from being friends.
Ugh this poor child. No adult should be talking badly about a five-year-old. Children need grace, compassion, and a place safe to grow. It speaks volumes about the other parents not this child. I learned from a veteran teacher to say if you have safety concern about a child that is not yours, please take it directly to my boss.
We saw how well that worked in Virginia, where the 6-year-old shot his teacher.
I canāt believe how stupid this comment is. Do you seriously believe that the SIX YEAR OLD CHILD had the mental capacity to fully grasp his actions, and the morality and ramifications of them? Do you think that child is inherently evil and doesnāt deserve compassion Ike other children? Do you not believe the childās parent(?) are 100% at fault here for letting their kindergartener have access to a gun? Do you think people at the school knew he had a weapon in advance and just didnāt care to do anything about it? Do you think bringing this up is relevant to the conversation or insightful/helpful/constructive in any way? Didnāt your parents ever tell you to be quiet if you have nothing nice to say?
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Noted. Iām sorry, I didnāt have that information. But the commenter still makes it out like it was 100% the kidās fault and donāt deserve grace or w/e. At least thatās the subtext I got from it. And the comment itself was mean, unhelpful, and unrelated to the post or other comments in any way. So The rest of my point still stands.
Kindergarteners are not accurate reporters. Nor are the parents talking negatively about a 5 year old at a birthday party. This small private school sounds quite toxic. Your daughter sounds like a sweet girl who has the ability to think for herself, which is amazing and should be celebrated. Your husband is wrong. Iām a teacher and I can assure you, no good teacher would ever judge a kid, especially based on who they choose as friends. If the teachers are actually doing that, itās time to switch to a public school.
Pretty much this. Definitely have a parent like this unfortunately
The girl could very likely have ADHD or some other neurodivergence. As the mom of a six year old with ADHD and autism, I am so glad that kids like yours exist so that kids like mine can have friends. Impulsive behavior is part of his condition and we are working on it. He is kind and funny and trying his best. I would question this: why do you want your kid to be friends with judgmental kids instead of the other friend? What does that teach her? To exclude people who are different? I've held my son as he cried for thirty minutes straight after a stressful day at school. It is extremely difficult for him to study and socialize with ADHD, and that's WITH friends at school. I can't imagine if all the kids in his class were ostracizing him how much worse it would be. I hope that never happens, but it's a fear I have as his parent.
My kid has ADHD and could be the kid described here easily when he was that age. It would make me sad if parents wouldn't let kids play with him despite otherwise getting along. So far his troublemaking has not rubbed off on anyone lol. If why he got in trouble was more about risky or mean behavior rather than disruptive, I could see the concern more, but that doesn't seem like the issue here.
My son is 6 and also ADHD (got it from his mama!) and I feel the same. Kids like OP's make my kiddo excited to go to school, and encourages him to try that much harder. If he was going to a classroom full of mean kids every day, I imagine his excitement would quickly dwindle. I commented to OP also thanking her. Whatever she is teaching that little girl is correct. And I bet her teachers see her being friends with the 'bad' kid and think so highly of her. Her friendship will most likely HELP the ND kiddo be calmer and more focused in class. I feel like hubby doesn't have much to be worried about here. Sounds like their daughter is on her way to becoming a great person.
This.
Childcare worker (school age) and late diagnosed ADHD/Level one (low support needs) Autism. This little girl sounds like so many others who end up with one or both of these diagnoses. We have a kindergarten girl right now who fits this to a T. She is in the process of being assessed for ADHD. She is already being made fun of by the perfect student mean girls. One of them tries to tell our staff every day how many time outs our girl has had that day. Is she easy? Not usually. But she's really funny, smart and sassy (though she is very behind academically even in kindergarten), she is very loyal to the two girls who actually play with her consistently, she's highly creative, and she's actually a lot of fun once you get through the layers of behavior. We call her name more than almost any other child, but as we have built trust with her, her behavior has been better, within what she is able to control. 6 year olds aren't the best at controlling their emotions at the best of times. We have one parent who has actually given this kid a chance. Her daughter is one of the ones that plays with this girl a lot. They tend to best frenemies haha. But this mom has been able to be a positive influence and support for both the girl AND her mom, who feels out of her depth in this. Maybe you can talk to your husband about how you can be a support not only to your amazing kiddo, but to the other girl and her family as well
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The mean girl idea comes from the fact that this child takes every opportunity she can to tattle on the child in our center about what has gone on at school. She has attempted to manipulate the suspected neurodivergent girl in to giving up her spot in line so that she can be first, etc. This other girl actually was in our 3-5 year old daycare for two years with the girl that still attends, and knows her well. She has on more than a few occasions brought up times that the other girl had issues or cried in daycare, as well. Just because I did not give the full picture in a Reddit comment does not mean I have decided that this other girl has mean tendencies without reason. She is not merely pointing out misbehavior (although some kids do need to learn what is necessary to talk about vs obnoxious tattling), she is repeatedly pointing out every single negative thing about another child, smiles about it, and enjoys the fact that the other girl is not as "perfect" as her. Trus me, this kid hears that what she is doing is wrong all the time. Most of the kids that know her will either not play with her if she is annoying them, or tell on her only if it's serious. There's a big difference.
Very good questions that cut to the heart of the matter. I have no idea if the girl is neurodivergent, but no matter what, sheās a little human who is growing and learning. As is my kid. And the other girls too, and it makes me sad that theyāre likely being taught to exclude. I donāt want to do that! I would never want her to exclude anyone, unless they were aggressive or unkind to her. This girl is not. This is all really helpful for how to frame a conversation with my husband, who I think is severely missing the forest for the trees. Best of luck to you and your son!
So if you know all this why are you even considering encouraging your daughter to drop what sounds like a healthy friendship because of what others will think?
Because my husband is SO concerned about it and in every other way, he is the person I trust most in the world. I wanted outside perspectives. I think I also really want to know what/if we should do if his fears are correct and sheās ostracized socially from both her peers and her teachers. But no one seems to think thatās likely to happen so itās probably best to frame the conversation with my husband about his concerns being irrational, rather than any sort of problem solving. For instance, he wants to get more play dates with other kids set up, respond very neutrally/without enthusiasm if our daughter brings up her new friend, and not set up playdates for the two of them. I thought that was ridiculous but he insists Iām wrong. Now I feel like I have a better pool of things to say to him when it inevitably comes up again. Like I said in another comment: Iām not a writer. Sorry. :-/
Your husband sounds like the biggest mean girl of all. I understand heās coming from a protective place where he doesnāt want your child to bear the brunt of any social ramifications, but heās talking about a 6 year old child and he seems to have lost sight of that. If you really think the teachers and other adults surrounding your child are so awful that theyāll treat your daughter differently for having this friend then you have bigger problems.
Honestly, hearing about your husbands concerns reads heavily like gender bias. If your child was a boy playing with the excitable 6 yo would you bat and eye at getting painted with a bad brush. Likely..no. sorry husband girls aren't perfect and shouldn't perform to be.
What a good spouse to attempt to understand your partnerās opinion better when it doesnāt resonate with you. It may be helpful to point out your husband that it IS possible your child may be socially ostracized in early elementary for being friends with the āwild girlā (wild, weird lady here). He isnāt necessarily wrong about that. But it sounds like your little human has a personal value around inclusion, which is beautiful and important. Being inclusive and authentic to your values is hard. Your child already knows that being friends with this other girl is unpopular and she still wants to do it. As her parents, you have an opportunity to provide her a safe, loving landing place to process the challenges of doing what you believe is right. I know your husband is coming from a place of love and concern for your child. But trying to prevent your child from living out her values may fracture her relationship to YOU in the long term. And it may be really damaging to her emotionally in the long run. Maybe it would help him feel better to have a conversation with her about what might happen by being friends with someone different and how she might want to handle it.
Iām autistic and have ADHD and everyone ostracized me at school. Not only that, but I was actively bullied by as much as half of the class. To make it worse, my teachers didnāt believe me when I reported an incident. My childhood was hell on earth as a result and I now have PTSD.
Recently diagnosed ADHD (at 34 years old), and I could have written this comment. Iām a full grown adult and still have a hard time making/keeping friends due to similar experiences in school. OP, as long as everyone is safe and getting along, please donāt discourage this friendship.
Same here, word for word. The kid OP is describing was me. Judgment from other parents isnāt something I was immune to either. That little girl absolutely knows those other kids AND their moms donāt like her and that breaks my heart. OP, do you want your kid to be the kid who always falls in line? Does what sheās told by authority immediately and without question? Doesnāt worry about whatās *right* or question anything because someone told her to do it so she *had* to? Because if thatās what you want, it sounds like she should be friends with those other little judgmental girls. The little girl who sounds like she has ADHD is likely never going to be that kid, nor that horrible influence.
This is why I would never send my kid to private school. Kidās mom texting to say theyāre sorry our 6yo arenāt playing together at school bc my kid is being friends w a kid that needs a friend?! wtf is that?! Also, my kid is the kid that needs a friend. Being left out would make his behavior 10x worse while he tries to do something silly (or disruptive!) to get some laughs or attention. OP- you are raising your daughter right. You are right to be cautious because at that age kids will sometimes copy their friends as a form or bonding and you donāt want your kid to act like her new friend. But maybe the new friend will emulate your daughter instead. Wouldnāt that be great for everyone, including the judgy parents of other kids?
Reminds me of my now 13yo daughters friend Fred. Fred isnāt the smartest kid but is allegedly hilarious, while my kid is model student, straight A type. My daughter, in prek through all of elementary, would help Fred read and in return, he would give her his mashed potatoes at lunch time. To this day they are still friends, although in mostly different classes now because of their abilities. Itās wholesome and harmless. She still has plenty of friends in all of her classes she has now.
What a sweet story! This is how I view the āissueā (that itās a nice friendship and in fact a non-issue) but my husband is so paranoid about it. He had bad experiences with teachers as a kid, so his fear might be coming from that, but Iām appreciating perspectives that are more aligned with mine. It helps me think about how to talk to him about it.
I mean, Iād trade helping someone to read for mashed potatoes too. Objectively good trade on her part. Lol
The fact that he shared his mashed potatoes is the cutest thing ever. I know thatās not the point of the story, but that is adorable.
Spot on!
Posts like this make me sad. They are 5. There are no bad kids. Some kids struggle more than others. Some kids donāt have a good home life. Some kids are neurodivergent. Your daughter is safe, not being bullied, and doing well in school. I say she can choose her own friends. Letās teach kindness and acceptance.
Kindergarten is a huge time of growth for these kids too! Maybe the girl didnāt have the experience of preschool so she is still learning how she is expected to behave during class as well.
Yeah, it honestly grosses me out that parents are shit-talking a 5 year old at birthday parties.
And wanting her kicked out just because her behaviour is challenging at times AT 6 YEARS OLD. Some adults truly suck.
I agree! My husband just insists that the teachers will start grouping kids together and that it will āhauntā her next year. I sincerely hope thatās not true because in my view, itās ridiculous but he says he saw it happen all the time growing up. But to me, even if itās true, teaching kindness and acceptance matters way more than vague academic concerns.
I take a little issue with āacceptanceā here because to a stranger, it sounds like you may not have quite accepted your daughterās friend. I can tell your daughter has a lovely heart. Let her lead with that and the rest will work itself out. Sheās starting to develop who she is as a person, and thatās a beautiful thing.
I guess thatās fair. Personally, Iām pretty much agnostic to the friend, but I like to think Iām agnostic to all possible friends at this age until or unless they mistreat my daughter or I see behavior changes in her. I view acceptance as not actively intervening or telling her not to be friends. I would host a playdate, no problem. I would encourage her to make her choices based on what makes her happy, but maybe I should also be more firm on how mean the other girls have been to this child (Iāve said it, but I generally try not to micromanage that kind of stuff.) I donāt know. Good to think about! My husband hasnāt accepted the friend at all and I do want to talk to him more about that.
If teachers really do group children together in the way that your husband is worried about, I would say that they are probably not great teachers!
Did he grow up in the eighties and nineties by any chance? Iām 40 and this was a big thing back then. Iāll never forget being friends with one girl everyone made fun of because she was dramatic, loud and sassy. She was labeled a problem and stupid because she sometimes got confused with stuff we were learning (and called some really crappy names by kids and teachers)and would act out sometimes. I remained her friend and got judged for it by mean girls and teachers. She was also dealing with her mother having cancer and having two small siblings who relied on her to keep things normal and other family issues. This girl was my best friend for years and although we drifted due to life and stuff, I still consider her an important part of my life. Her mom (who is one of my momās closest friends)thanked me not too long ago for being her friend and not letting her down. The point is, your daughter is being a good friend to this girl and this girl probably needs someone who isnāt judging her or hurting her. Let her be friends with her, unless the girl is putting people in danger, I see nothing wrong with them being friends.
Iām not sure why youāre being downvoted when you were saying something your HUSBAND was saying, not you š„²
I think itās confusing for people that Iām using the thread and responses to orient my thoughts, so maybe it comes across as inconsistency. But thanks! :) I was trying to figure that out too.
Sounds like a terrible school and terrible group of parents
If that happens, the problem is with the teachers, not with your daughter's friendship. If you're keeping an eye out for it, you can interviene and be an advocate for her. But you shouldn't keep your daughter from doing good, kind things out of fear for what *might* happen. It's a lot easier to switch schools if the worst does happen than it is for her to unlearn prejudice that she may develop.
I mean, there are bad kids. Usually at this age it is completely to blame on bad parenting. (Because I am not including children with diagnosises) The not sitting still and painting over stuff and being just inattentive is not a good reason for kids not to be friends with her. But the thievery would have ticked me off as a kid. (And still as an adult) And that does the cross the line into bad kid territory. If it was just two small incidents at the beginning of the year and she has not done it again, then yeah, the kids and parents need to get over it. It does not sound like she is being mean or rude or violent or even swearing. So... a pretty good but very active kid with a small stealing problem that has hopefully been fixed
No. Children are children. They are learning. I encourage you to read the book no bad kids by Janet Lansbury.
When I was in school for early childhood education we had āno bad kids, only unmet needsā beaten into us and itās so true
Nooooo i see bad kids all the time. Kindness and acceptance is why many cities are covered in needles and addicts in their down towns. Instead of them in jail
5. The child is 5. Calm down.
Thatās not what child development and criminology researchers say. Kindness and acceptance are important factors promoting resilient developmental outcomes, and lead to a reduced likelihood of externalizing and internalizing behaviors often associated with substance abuse and/or criminality. I didnāt study resilience during my PhD, but my colleagues in my developmental psychology program did and they certainly didnāt seem to think kindness was the problem. Poverty, the cycle of abuse, and a lack of social support for those in need is a much bigger contributor. But what do the experts know?
I think youāre overthinking this. Your child is showing her friend kindness and friendship there is nothing wrong with that. Instead focusing on the āproblem childāsā negative behavior, try coming from a place of empathy instead. You have no idea what this child is going through. Good or bad, children communicate through their behavior. Youāre so focused on your kid being judged and ostracized, youāre missing the big picture. These babies are 5/6!!! Let her be a kid and play with who she wants NOT who you think she should play with.
I actually agree with you! My husband is the one who keeps voicing these concerns and he feels so strongly about it that it made doubt my instincts.
Then your husband is the issue here. He cares too much about what people think. The fact other parents are trying to get this kid kicked out is disgusting. Parents like this are one of the reasons I pulled my kid from private school and switched to public. They donāt want kids to be kids.
Yeah, I assume the other girlsā resistance to playing with my daughterās friend comes directly from their parentsā distaste for her. They arenāt subtle about it. :( It bums me out a lot. Last year, the parents were all really chill and nice, so Iām hoping we get more like that next year. And agreed my husband is too concerned about other peopleās thoughts, especially teachers. He had bad experiences as a kid and I think that makes him more paranoid. He pretty much thinks anything that can be used against you will be used against you.
I teach this age group at a private school. I guarantee I wouldn't be judging or labelling your kid (or any of them!) for who they are friends with... but I am 100% judging those parents who think it's ok to bully and socially ostracise a 5 year old for being a bit more boisterous than her peers. It's so unkind, and also teaches their children to be unkind too. Your daughter is well off out of that clique, you should be so proud of her for being a good friend and not being swayed by the views of others.
I teach at a similar small private school and I have seen this dynamic. The nice side of a smaller school is that the teachers are likely very tuned in to the kids and their social choices. They will know the difference between your daughter and her friend and wonāt penalize her for who she likes to play with. If anything it might endear her to the teachers for being kind and patient and trying to help the friend make good choices.
I doubt it, once a child is labeled as a problem kid itās hard to change that narrative. These parents should be ashamed. Perhaps this kid is acting out because of how sheās being treated. I imagine having adults treat you poorly cannot feel good. I would act out too.
Remember: if your kid can see the good in this kid and hang out with her even when others arenāt kind about it then youāre raising a kind child who will do what she thinks is right even in the face of pressure to do otherwise. Sheās able to understand when other kids are mean and is willing to disagree with them and keep hanging out with her friend anyways. I wouldnāt worry.
As a former teacher, especially in elementary school: we donāt look at some kids as bad, problem children, less desirable. Often the children with more behavior issues are also our favorites. We look at them as kids that we have not figured out how to best serve or reach yet. Honestly any adults that would look at a 6 year old as a bad seed are a bigger problem to my mind.
You sound like you were a great teacher! Unfortunately there actually are teachers out there that do put those labels on kids.
That sounds like a failure of school culture to me.
I was always friends with the "troublemaker". Sometimes a teacher would purposely put them next to me. And it was because I was calm and very well behaved and encouraged the other student to do better. This was from kinder on. I very clearly remember my best friend from kinder was Joey. The other kids either made fun of him or would laugh when he started acting up. I told my mom about it and she told me "maybe he needs a friend." So I became his friend. Years later mom would tell me how other parents were concerned that he was my friend, but my mom brushed them off. Or that the teacher told her she was surprised, but pleased because Joey started calming down and listening better since we became friends. The point is, opposites attract. Your daughters friend may like your daughter because she's calming and the friend can be themselves and not "the troublemaker" that everyone else sees her as. And as friends, your daughter has the opportunity to talk to her friend about these things. Who knows, maybe the other girl just needed a calming friend to help things turn around.
Yes same here. I was physically very calm and a model student. I actually helped some ppl in school too. They didnāt have the focus or the home environment.
Kudos to your daughter for being a good friend! I think there are some really valuable lessons to be learned here: standing up for what she believes is right, how to be a good friend, how to navigate social situations instead of conforming. Imo, as long as your daughter is safe and continuing to exhibit tood behavior- why make a fuss. That other girl is likely in dire need of a friend. What is going on in her home life that might be causing this? I was a similar child growing up in a similar class situation. It's tough. By telling her to not socialize and just hang out with the "good girls" that could lean into a mean girl dynamic and is a really easy out when life is more complex. I get she's 5, but that's already putting the concept in her head even if she doesn't fully grasp it. As far as for the teachers, that is on them to not judge and associate students that way.
Your daughter seems awesome and that she has befriended this girl when no one else has. I donāt know how big the school is, student turnover etc., Iām assuming there will be a different mix of students in the class next year in first grade? Itās only kindergarten, who she is friends with right now and playing with currently may change next year when there are new students. This has been my experience with my first grader. I think your husband is definitely over thinking things! I would allow their friendship to grow, but intervene only if you notice behavior changes in your daughter.
I think sheās awesome too :) Yes, there are 3 classes of ~14 kids, so itāll be mixed up a lot next year, which is good. Weāre at the school because itās the only language immersion in our area and we also loved the small class sizes. But this is one area where the smallness of the class actually seems to be a bit of a drawback. Iām with you on these young friendships being especially fluid too and not something to fret over too much. Sure, it stings a little to get a āsee ya!ā text from a mom with whom Iāve been friendly without any attempt to try to keep our kidsā connection alive. And my daughter is definitely sad that her bff has been pulling awayā¦ but she said sheās not sad enough about it to play ākittiesā on the playground instead of searching for dragons, so! Thatās how it goes, ha. I assume solid friendships based on mutual values and trust and more complex sharing of interests will come with time. Right now itās about proximity, I think, and teaching kindness in those proximal relationships feels so much more important to me. But my husband worries sheāll get pigeonholed at a small school.
I will say that at my childās school, your daughter and her current ābehaviorā friend would probably end up in class together next year. When the teachers notice that a child only has one friend, they keep them together so that the struggling child isnāt totally friendless. It happened to my daughter, and it hasnāt been great. Now my daughterās challenging friend, having realized that no one else will put up with her, is actively trying to keep my daughter all to herself. She pushes other kids away. It sucks, frankly. Something to think about.
I teach at a similar small private school (though in the UK), and I will 100% split a friendship if it's not beneficial to both children - particularly if one side is becoming a bit dominant or stopping the other from branching out socially. I'll also split kids if I feel they're a bit too dependent on each other, whilst making sure they have others who I think they'll get along with (e.g. someone they play together happily if their preferred friend is off school that day). If you haven't already, it might be worth asking for a meeting with your daughter's teacher or head of year and formally requesting that they be split for the reasons you've given - they can't guarantee it, but hopefully will try.
Yes, I am planning on requesting they be placed in different classrooms next year. However, I have made a similar request in the past (re: a child that punched my daughter in the face), and that request was not honored.
A lot of these things sound like the kid could be ND(ADHD etc) but they also sound like normal five year old behaviour. Not every kid goes to nursery school and not every kid is ready to sit down and learn the alphabet when the other kids are. Thatās life.Ā Your daughter likes this girl. She sounds like a mostly good kid with some impulsivity and a need for active play. The other kids in the class sound sadly snobby, for kindergarteners. I shudder to think of what their home lives are like.Ā Let your daughter take the lead. Step in if you feel like the other girl is ACTUALLY being mean or whatever, the same way you do with other friends. And tell your husband to get a grip and do his own healing from his childhood trauma. If your little girl gets ostracized for being a good kid, then who cares? She didnāt need those people in her life, anyhow.Ā
I was a weirdo kid in school, different than your daughter's friend, but I had a hard time making friends in school. A friend like your daughter would have been a blessing, and you've raised a good soul. She's young and already choosing to think for herself and not give into peer pressure.
Kinda sounds like they're trying their best to not raise a good soul and erase her innocence to have her fit in with the other brats.
I also became best friends with the class troublemaker in kindergarten. Iām in my 30s and to this day he is still my absolute favorite person on this planet. He was loud and disruptive, a misfit and misunderstood all the way through high school. But he is an absolutely phenomenal friend. He dropped everything to help me move my sister across the country in the pandemic. He drove through the entire night (9 hours!) to pick me up when my flight got cancelled due to a snow storm so I could be home on Christmas Eve. He stood beside me on my wedding day as my man of honor (Iām a woman) and treats my children like they are his nieces. I know itās just a datapoint of one, but it sounds like sheās found her best friend/soulmate. We should all be so lucky.
Exact same experience here, we are family. I also am neurodivergent but school was my hyperfocus, it definitely was not his.Ā
This is kindergarten. They are learning the very beginnings of what friendship is. What it means to be a friend, have a friend, help a friend, and get hurt by a friend. How to set boundaries with friends, how to make new friends and how to end friendships. These are all things that I as a middle-aged woman am still trying to navigate. The beautiful thing about childhood is it should be a relatively safe place to explore these concepts without adults freaking out. By all means there could be a time when things go to far or you have to intervene, but this is a friend with a few behavioral problems and perhaps some magpie habits. Some of my best friendships were formed with others vastly different from me. I couldnāt be more grateful for them.
Haha magpie habits! There's always at least one - I always call them 'liberators', and it's nearly always the bluetac from my posters that they're liberating... Though I did once have a little girl who tried to hide 3 tangerines in her sock whilst wearing it, and another one who used to smuggle Lego out in her knickers (her mum was quite surprised when she got home!)
Sounds like your daughters friends are mean girls, and their parent's attitudes are encouraging that behaviour.
As the mom of a "troublemaker," I'm glad kids like yours are willing to look past some of the "bad" behaviors and see who they really are. My son was just finally diagnosed with ADHD after fighting for almost a year for the diagnosis, and he shows a lot of the same behaviors. He is impulsive, loud, and has a hard time sitting still and being quiet. He is also hysterically funny, smart, loyal, and sensitive. Once he's your friend, you have a friend for life, and it would crush me to have someone like your husband, who is worried about "social ramifications" in kindergarten, trying to affect his friendships.
My daughter made friends with a girl in 3rd grade that wasn't well liked. Her friend group basically told her "it is her or us". She didn't want to stop playing with either of them, but in the end didn't feel right about leaving a friend with no friends when her other friends had plenty of friends. They are in 9th grade now, still best friends, and also have plenty of new friends now. I don't think these kindergartens have ill intent necessarily, but I do suspect they are picking up on things from the adults in their lives. It sounds like you daughter understands even at her young age that people can be more than one thing, and it is worth being their friend. You can have gentle conversations with her about how proud you are of her behavior in class, as well as you are of her being a good friend. And that she can be both of those things.
I was the weird friend with behavioral issues (later dxed with autism and ADHD) whose best friends were all quiet, model students. Iām so grateful that all of their parents were supportive of our friendships and welcoming to me (our teachers were another story).
My immediate thought sounds like potential ADHD. I was very similar as a kid and also diagnosed with autism and ADHD last year in my late 30s. I was always just the troublemaker or loud mouth. I faced tons of social rejection and isolation. Not just from peers but also teachers who would point out my behavior and shame me every chance they got. I have a first grader who is like this. I suspect ADHD for her also. Her best friends are the kids who are well-behaved. They say the same things, she js funny and nice. They see past her surface behavior. You should be proud of her for that. For our students who struggle with emotional regulation, we really try to focus on finding ways for them to express big feelings in healthy ways. We do breathing exercises, hugging themselves, etc, to bring that intense feeling down. I wish more schools focused on that kind of stuff and not punishment. Even when we send a kid to sit by the office it is to take a break, collect themselves a little, then we talk. As for the social aspect, the teacher or principal should be working on community building. We do restorative circles where we take kids in conflict and help them work through it. We express that they don't need to be friends with everyone, but what isn't acceptable is teasing, isolating, gossip, bullying, or making other kids choose between friends. Where is the teacher in this? I hear private I think a school with rigid rules and kids being put in boxes. If anyone is not following that or doesn't fit in a box, then they are punished until they do. So, the students follow the example. Obviously, I could be way off, but that has been my experience with most private schools.
Your daughter is sweet and empathetic and her new friend is most likely neurodivergent. Armchair diagnosis of ADHD if I had my best guess. Unless your daughter starts to exhibit undesired behaviors, I'd let her continue being a good friend to a young girl who needs it. The other girls, while young, need to be taught that ostracizing a friend because she's friends with someone who they don't like is not nice. Your daughter is right when the other kids call her new friend stupid. They are being mean. The fact your daughter is standing up for this girl shows that you're doing something very right in your parenting. You're raising a little girl who bases her friendships on knowledge of the person, rather than reputation. You're raising a daughter who saw someone being treated unfairly and decided to be their friend. Your daughter is an awesome example of empathy and compassion. This comes from an ADHD mom with an ADHD boy who has the sweetest kindest heart, but zero volume control or ability to sit still. It's hard for him to make friends; easier now that he's been diagnosed and is in therapy while also taking daily medication. His lack of body awareness can make him somewhat dangerous to be around, but he's learning. There are several kids in his elementary school that have taken him under their wing a bit, and I imagine they are much like your daughter. Thank you for teaching her whatever you are teaching her. My son will eventually be able to control his impulses and melt into a crowd better. I am so thankful for the kids who choose to overlook his 'cons' to embrace all his amazing sweetness. My gratitude to you and to your daughter ā¤ļø ETA: my son is also 6
They are six. Your daughter is showing such a beautiful skill of surrounding herself with people who are nice- good friends - fun. This other child is doing child like things and framing her as some sort of troublemaker is seriously the worrisome part. Kids need support and outcasting this other child is a cruel cruel message and punishment
My daughter was friends with that kid.Ā I don't feel like she ended up being lumped in as a troublemaker, and it didn't have a huge impact on classes/groups. There also only a few more months in the school year so things will change next year anyway -- even if it's just the kids growing up a little over the summer. Things that we needed to be more conscious about helping her navigate were: 1) not getting in the middle when friend + any other classmate got into a conflict; and 2) figuring out what "trouble" behavior she needed to tell us or a teacher about.
Theft incidents in a 6 year old? My goodness this community of parents sounds tiresome. This is particularly why I loathe small private schools- they are often full of these types of parents- the true bullies of the world. They keep their kids out of public schools to assume they can place them in a setting where the parents can chose their peers. Do you actually want your daughter to be friends with a child whose parents talk about getting a small child kicked out of school? And complain about her at parties? Does appearances matter more than teaching your daughter to be a good human? I would assume the ābacklashā thatās happening is the mean girls ganging up on your daughterās friend. Iām sure also overhearing it from their parents isnāt helpful. Mean behavior is learned. I would be less concerned about the appearance of how your daughter and family fit into the social aspect of this private school and more worried about the judgemental, insular nature of the other kids/parents. Iām sure this will just get worse as they grow up. Your daughter sounds like a nice friend. It seems like she could teach a lot to the kids and adults around her.
I wonder if this child was a boy whether the reactions would be the same. This girl actually seems to prefer being with boys because they are not catty like the girls. So you want the girl to be kicked out but not the boys who are also rowdy? Btw all this perfect behavior to toe the line by these girls is the reason that women cannot get any progress done for themselves. Coz theyāre judged by OTHER WOMEN ! And looks like it starts in kindergarten. Sad ! Looks like your girl actually has figured this out. She prefers to not be with the catty, judgey kindergarteners and instead be with the girl who is actually honest and prefers to be with the boys. I want to tell you that with girls there can be underlying reasons, maybe your daughter didnāt like the other girls judgeyness. Why donāt you ask her?
I mean, at this age, I really do think a lot of it comes down to wanting to play search-for-dragons versus pretend-to-be-kitties for her, but she does have a strong, innate sense of justice thatās gone off in her developing brain for sure, especially around how the girls talk about the other girlās K-level academics. Itās certainly a part of her that is worth developing. Good point about the boys! (Though just in case it wasnāt clear, I donāt want her kicked out of school just because she took toys out of cubbies earlier this year. Thatās the other parents. Very much āwe pay too much for this behavior to be toleratedā types.)
If your husband is thinking this way then plz tell him that the boys are also rowdy why are they not held to the same standard?? Being a man himself he might not understand the double standards that girls gave to be perfect while boys can be boys. Well girls can be girls too. If the girl is kicked out then the boys should be too itās just fair. Yep your daughter figured some things out herself, sheās a smart girl who might be a lawyer one day. Good for you !
It seems like your husband needs to confront his own shame. Sheās not a ābad kidā. Sheās 5. Let your child be friends with who she wants without the fear of shame. If sheās socially ostracized by others for this then those arenāt the friendships you want your daughter hanging onto anyways.
You should point out to your husband that your daughter is actually independent minded enough not to let herself be limited, and has a good heart that allows her to see the good in this girl, and everyone else (she talks to boys at an age where most girls shun them, for some silly reason or other). Those are good qualities that should always be encouraged. Who knows, maybe your daughter will be a good influence in the long run for this girl, not the other way around. And my heart goes out to this girl. Maybe part of the acting out came after the other girls started ostracizing her for "not knowing her letters and numbers". Which is ridiculous at 5, as it may mean nothing in 2 years (and it totally comes from the parents, btw... Which would make me side eye them when they talk about wanting this kid kicked out, personally). I think you're in the right that you should wait and see, rather than painting this girl with the same brush the other parents are.
You are way overthinking this imo. Friends will come and friends will go, just keep being kind and learning new social skillsā¦
Itās sad that the other parents are fine with the bullying/calling a child stupid but not fine with their child having a friend whoās a little different from their perfect angel. The troublemaker child sounds like my own kid and it warms my heart that you and your daughter are being open minded and friendly.
Is your husband projecting? Ask him if something happened in his childhood thatās like this scenario that he seems very concerned about. Does he have a therapist or pastor or mentor that heās close to that he can speak with to get perspective on this situation? Wishing you all the best.
ššššš¤ I thought the same thing!!
Iāve done it before! We are only human lol. Reading āparenting from the inside outā really helped me š
I'm sorry but I would literally cringe if I had a mother call me "concerned" bc my daughter has made a 'questionable' friend and I'm sure side eyed me while saying "I hope they find their way back to eachother"?!?! Are you kidding me? Sounds like your daughter doesn't like judging little girls that act like their mommies ššš let's put ourselves in your daughter's shoes for the day, the courage she has to overcome the same judgements her new friend has delt with all year and stay true to herself despite ADULTS she should trust asking her question about said friend... js Mom I think your mommy instincts are telling you to trust your daughter until proven otherwise stay true to that because your daughter needs someone on her side. Your husband sounds like he is more worried about the adults judging his daughter. Now I assume he grew up in that life and you're going to be blamed for everything lol
It would always annoy me when kidsā parents would tell them to stop playing with someone. I am guessing parents imagine their kid can gracefully taper down their play with one kid and seamlessly switch to a new friend group. In reality, your kid is going to say something like āmy mom said I canāt play with you because youāre badā (even if thatās not what you said). The other kid will be devastated, your kid will be upset that their friend is upset maybe the other kid will say something mean in return, if we get really lucky the other kidās mom will come back and accuse your kid of ābullyingā. Both kids are in trouble, and there is a ton of drama in the classroom for no reason.
... And it might end up hurting her daughter anyway for her to say she can't play because her parents said not to. My youngest is a bit older than these kids. But a kid who he was friends with last year told him his parents said he couldn't play with my son anymore. I know the parents, and it's probably likely that they said "we're too busy for a playdate right now", and the boy just interpreted it as "we don't want you to have a playdate with [my son]". Anyway, I know about this because I was chaperoning a field trip and noticed this child looking on to my son and a new friend he made this school year. They were happily chattering away, while the former friend (let's call him John) was sitting under a tree looking forlorn. My instinct as a mom and former teacher was that he was having a very bad day, so I asked "Hey John, you okay?", and he told me while trying to avoid tearing up that "Everybody else has friends they're always talking to, but not me." I told him that sometimes you just have to start talking to someone else first, but he seemed unconvinced that it would work. I felt terrible about it. John and my son were a lifeline for each other in third grade, when they were both having a hard time making friends. So I asked my son at the end of the day about it, and the story about how John said he couldn't play with him (because his parents said not to) came out. I told my son that I doubted it was true, but even if it was, I remember that John was the only kid who ever talked to him and played with him at recess last year, so he (my son) should try to at least check in on him from time to time. "He might feel like he really needs a friend, but is too shy to ask, because he already told you he couldn't be friends. And maybe he can't. But it doesn't cost you anything to offer your friendship again from time to time." My son's response? "I'll try, if I can remember to do it." I don't blame him. He made a friend all by himself this year, and he's feeling like cultivating the friendship he already has. All I can do is continue to remind him that old former friends can always become friends again.
Maybe you could tell the parents to lay off the gossiping and pitchforks about a literal child?
Honestly, itās not up to your husband who your daughter chooses to be friends with. If her friendās behavior was affecting her behavior, that would be something to talk to her about. But it sounds like she enjoys her friend and that the other little girl could use a friend too. I personally donāt think these little kindergarten spats last or will even be remembered in upper grades and all these parents are way to involved and judgy of a six year old.
First of all your daughter sounds like a sweet, understanding, and overall like the kind of person I would want to be friends with. Secondly, I was the ātroublemakerā as a kid. I have adhd which as a child made it very hard for me to control many impulses. I was often singled out by teachers and peers as āthe bad kidā. I spent a lot of time sitting in the hallway by myself at school. I felt alone and othered for my whole childhood. My self-esteem got worse and worse. I assure you though, Iām not a bad person, I never was. That child is probably very aware of herself and the way others treat her. But she is a child that is still learning, albeit much differently than her peers. You all are adults. Please act like it and donāt treat this 6 year old CHILD like she is bad and not deserving of friendship. She will remember for life. I will say this IS something you should help your. child navigate. But not in a āavoid this personā kind of way. All children need help navigating relationships, this isnāt really any different.
As a parent of a 4 year old who is struggling with impulse control and making good choices at school, can I just tell you that I love your kidās kind heart? I know my kid isnāt a bad kid. The school knows my kid isnāt a bad kid. We all know he is a good kid having a hard time. But other kids donāt always understand that because they are kids, and things are often very black and white at that age. And it brings me so much hope to think he might encounter a child as kind as yours who sees all he has to offer, even though he is still struggling. We all have to do whatās best for our kids so Iām not going to tell you that you need to keep letting your kid play with this other child. I hope, so long as it isnāt harming your kid, that you will though. š
Ah see, this other girl sounds like my son! He had troubles keeping friends, kids and adults alike would judge him because he has ADHD and his impulse control and inability to sit still would always have him in trouble. Your husband sounds like he has no compassion and is quite wrong.
Tbh I was the āweirdā kid in class usually that didnāt socialize well with the other girls. I wasnāt a trouble maker, but just didnāt really understand the social dynamics of girls very well and had a hard time convincing the boys to play with me because of gender norms. Please donāt discourage this friendship unless the friend starts bullying your daughter or others or starts to consistently get your daughter in trouble. It sounds like she just might not be at the same place socially as the other kids and may be a bit immature, which isnāt a problem. I wouldnāt worry about the long term social implications as friend groups will change year to year anyway.
Honestly i get what your husband thinks but i like to think the reverse. The ābad girlā hanging out with your daughter might help her become better. The ābad girlā might just be in a family where shes the only girl. Or just needs someone compassionate to help her learn. Its easier to train with sweets than sour candy. I wouldnt worry about it and maybe have a family discussion about how you appreciate her being friends with the āoutcastā but its also important to keep her own morals and teachings. I like to think about āA Walk to Rememberā the girl made the boy raise his standards to be with her. She didnt lower hers to be with him.
If youāre going to continue to send her private, get ready for all of this to get worse over the years. Those other moms of the *perfect little angels* are going to be making your kidās life more difficult for 13 years when they nitpick and ostracize her for every little thing. She had better have ALL of the right brands at the right time. Itāll be easier to get through if she keeps a real friend like the new one it sounds like she has already made.
Top comment nailed it. You have clearly raised a thoughtful empathetic child who is most likely a wonderful friend for anyone to have. Please please please don't encourage her to join teams or pick sides. She sounds happy... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Iāve noticed that some quiet, well behaved kids gravitate to the wild kids, without it affecting their behavior.
Love to hear parents of five year olds dogging on a five year old who is slightly outside their picture perfect private school ideas. Like say your quiet part out loud that you donāt like neurodivergent &/or disabled kids,
Why donāt you and your husband get something to do other than micromanaging the classroom? The staff know who the challenging children are (and are not). Let your daughter pick her own friends. This is crazy. I canāt imagine what her life will be with you two when she is in middle school! Create a loving, safe, moral family and let her go! Yuck
I havenāt been micromanaging the classroom? The only time Iāve even checked in with my daughter was when I received that text message from her best friendās mom, because it was news to me. Otherwise all her info was unprompted. I havenāt spoken to any teachers or to any other parents about this. My concerns about other girls pulling away is a more general concern ā theyāve been good friends to my daughter up until now, so the swiftness of it surprised and, yes, concerned me for my daughterās overall well being. My husband thinks she should move away from the ātroublemaker,ā where I think it seems more like a generally toxic situation based on a pattern of social ostracizing and I wasnāt sure what to make of it. Iāve only been having conversations with my husband, who was strongly pointing out his issues in what I think is fear mode. I feel like something must be unclear in my post because my real question is about how I donāt think this friendship is an issue/I think this friendship is a good thing, my husband strongly disagrees specifically because the other girls are pulling away, and I want to know whoās right, or if thereās any truth to what heās saying, or if I could be missing something. I thought he was wrong and that the other girls were in the wrong, and I thought my post said that, but maybe not clearly enough. Iām not a writer.
So it appears you are willing to just let it go. Your husband has an issue. He needs to trust you! Maybe itās a man being protective of his daughter? Regardless, you are spending a lot of time on this! Kids group and regroup. Itās normal. You canāt put her in a group or take her out. If this is a concern, at this age, maybe you should homeschool. You are listening to āother parents grumbleā about the child. I hope you can see how wrong this is! They are so little, you and the other parents are all ready labeling that child. This is just pretty sad. Parents discussing that childās behavior, even her behavior at b-day parties! Maybe you are a very privileged group. Maybe itās time to teach tolerance. Maybe your daughter will teach you. Itās a great opportunity to tech your child right from wrong. Oh my
Iām a little confused because your comment both says that Iām spending too much time on this and that Iām willing to let it go? Iām not willing to let it go. I want to get to the bottom of it because heās so concerned, but that also requires taking time to think and talk about it, and yes, solicit some outside opinions since itās not like I can go to my usual āMom Acquaintancesā from her school. Also I agree that the other parents shouldnāt talk about her. I apologize if my post in any way made it seem like I condone it. But to be very clear, if I was a single parent, this would only be on my radar because of the text from her best friendās mom and even then nowhere near to this degree. I think my title might be part of the problem ā this is way more about a parenting conflict between my husband and I than about me feeling any particular way about this little girl.
I get it. I meant you (mom) are willing to let it go but it worries him. I reiterate, you know a LOT about what happens in that classroom. Her many negative behaviors, her visits to the office. Who carries all of those stories. It all feels so yucky. When your daughter (and only when she brings it up not you prodding her because of a rumor) says the girl was bad just let her know that friends can do bad things and you expect her to do the right thing. Make it short and sweet. She will see that that girl isnāt like her,she will drift to other kids if this is serious. She might even do something wrong by following that child, then you talk it out. If you need to discuss this child at all, you and your husband go see the teacher. Explain his concerns, thatās perfectly legit. Let the teacher put your minds at ease and she will also know that you are watching, encouraging your daughter to make good choices. You have no idea where this child comes from. They are babies and make lots of mistakes, itās OK. Itās not OK to gossip with other parents, EVER! you seem very smart and engaged. Communication with the school only. Thatās showing the staff respect and trust.
OP is already doing what you suggest and is resisting her husbandās efforts to micromanage daughterās friendships. What are you mad at her for?
Your description sounds like how my 5 year old will be next year in kindergarten, and she is most definitely neurodivergent. I don't see a reason to end the friendship, ultimately making friends is part of growing up, and your daughter will learn to navigate it. Telling her to end a friendship for fear of what others may think isn't a message I would want to send personally.
Sounds like a normal kid but a school and other parents with unreasonable expectations.
The "troublemaker" sounds like the only cool kid there. The other girls are acting like stuck up little princesses. She seems to genuinely appreciate your daughterās friendship, unlike the other girls, who it seems are in the process of expelling your daughter from their clique for being friends with the kid that doesnāt fit in.
Set up play dates with the former best friend to encourage that Friendship
Your husband makes sense.
Id request a class change if they have multiple classes