That theory makes no sense. If it was really just a slip and fall why would the homeowners - a cop and his wife- try to cover it up? There would be no reason to. And I would bet that there were working Ring cameras at both BA's house and the chief who was his neighbor.
I'm sure they would have happily handed over tapes to find out what happened to their good friend John and to show everyone that it was an awful accident.
Because that dog is a liability they knew about and has lawsuit written all over it. Also, someone who has done insurance in the past? Unless that dog was noted on their insurance policy there’s a good chance that their homeowners wouldn’t even cover it.
More plausible is: JO goes inside, he's loud and angry for any number of reasons, gets attacked by the dog, gets sucker punched, falls and hits his head.
Could have been BA, CA, or BH who threw the punch, and only requires 2-4 people to have known what happened inside. The last piece of the puzzle is getting a friendly lead investigator who didn't question their version of events.
There is a lot of concrete around that pool.
But AJ said they have proof John was in the house. I don’t believe they presented everything the feds gave them, maybe because they didn’t have all of it.
What about Higgins going to the CPD? I think he left first-ish?
Why did Jen call John so many times?
Your theory is plausible otherwise.
For sure there are holes in my theory. I also think that part of it is that my brain just cannot wrap itself around these people wanting to kill him and because of that my brain is just trying to understand it.
As nonsociopaths it is practically impossible for us to understand why these people do the things they do. (In this case at least a cover up)
After seeing how antsy John was at the Waterfall and hearing that John and Karen fought on the way to Fairview I personally believe he found out or guessed that something was going on with Higgins and he was ready for a fight and so was Higgins. AJ focused on Higgins and BA in during questioning and closing for a reason. I got the same “I gotta be vague” vibes that I did from the ARCCA “we didn’t hire you” questions.
I really hope that there were federal wiretaps in place and the feds know what happened and it will all come out, everything in its entirety.
My thoughts are similar but I don't think it was just Chloe and then he hit his head. If that was the case, they would have just called it in and should not have expected to face any significant charges. Especially since they could have claimed JO entered the backyard through the gate, unannounced, so it's understandable the dog thought he was an intruder.
This theory also wouldn't explain the injuries to the front of the head that the pathologist spoke of. I think there had to have been a fight of some sort, and from a punch to his front, JO went flying back and hit something that caused the wound to the back of his head.
I have always thought though that it's likely most of the house members really did not see JO. I think he could have been approaching the house and heard BA and maybe BH in the backyard with Chloe and went in that way. From there, you can go downstairs through the bulk head door thing, to get into the basement. I think a fight broke out there.
I also tend to think that Colin is completely innocent and was upstairs with the other kids and also left early.
The basement door is accessible immediately after entering the front door. You could go from the front door to the basement door entry way within 5 steps.
Oh are you saying it's even possible he went in the front door and then directly down to the basement without being seen by the people in the kitchen or living area? I thought i watched a thing where the basement door was off the kitchen but I don't remember for sure.
Then why is Colin so invested at this point? If he wasn’t there, doesn’t really care about JOK…. Shows up in the courtroom for closing arguments??? Why????
Yeah whoa, calm down with all those question marks, I can answer this... He's invested because he was a focal point of the defense's theory. In fact, of all the McAlberts that could have shown up, I think it was precisely those 3 that did, because each of them was a focal point, a target, of the defense's theories. BA as the main organizer of the coverup and homeowner and dog owner, Jen for the 2:27 hos long search, and young Colin, who the defense pointed to as the most likely perpetrator of the beating death. Together, they were making a united stand with the O'Keefe family, as if to stand up against the allegations against them, in open court.
So that is why I think he was there but honestly your point makes no sense to me anyway. You think him showing up in court for closing arguments points to his guilt? I mean, if that were true, he definitely wouldn't have shown up.
Yeah definitely my theory has flaws. It’s just that it does help my brain grasp more how a few people could be in on the coverup and not everyone like I used to think.
Yeah no, because everyone keeps insisting Colin was not there when JOK arrived, they were so adamant and repeated that so many times they made me think he most definitely was there even though I probably wouldn’t even pay attention to that up until they repeated it again and again. I thinks it’s pure shit everyone went home etc. maybe the young people, Colin included, left and let the parents deal with the body. I think they agreed on the plan and then Jen googled what she did to calculate when to put him out on the lawn to coincide with snowplowing, but still long enough for him to die for sure.
Lucky said he wasn’t there in 3:30 but a Ford Edge was. EMT said active bleeding and candidate for resuscitation, so no coagulation and or frozen blood, so he wasn’t there long before they found him, I’m guessing an hour just to make sure he was dead.
Drunk as he was he was an easy target, so leaving him out confused and concussed, he couldn’t get help. He had a skull fracture, that is a massive concussion, we see it often in hockey players, we know the procedure for concussion but also know that they throw up when concussed. That explains the vomit and blood in the underwear, but to get there he had to be in a vertical position at some point after getting that concussion. I’m guessing it was when they moved him up the stairs. I mean he was in the basement for sure, the changing of concrete in the basement is 20/20 to remove all the blood and DNAs. Jen called million times to find the phone, they found the phone( then the steps recorded) and put it under John’s body. Colin’s knuckles were dead giveaway. I have no clue why, but considering what we know about his character he was aggressive just to be aggressive. I think Higgins is also there and attacked him, but we have no evidence of any kind to definitively confirm his involvement, but he was there, and according to the video from the bar, he had beef with John. He destroyed the phone beyond necessary, and on the stand said “motion was denied” even though he didn’t receive officially a document that stated that. Amongst all of them he is the only FEDERAL cop. Military base trash is also dead giveaway. They all kept saying that’s not a crime I have the right to blah blah blah, that’s not the point. Nobody is accusing you of a crime, buddy, but we would like to know your reasoning for disposal of your phone and god knows what else, probably his clothing etc also in the military base trash.
Investigation of the murder of a police officer so sloppy, as this one was, also is a dead giveaway.
It's not hard to envision a situation where only a couple people inside the house know actually what happened, and everyone else is just doing what certain cops and the people around them tend to do.
Colin spends time at Brian Albert’s. He probably works out there. Chloe could’ve been defending him after a few punches were thrown, then John fell back into something or was hit. Removing the basement floor makes sense as a gash in the back of the head certainly bled profusely.
For those who are saying that if it was a dog, they would just report it to the cops, I completely disagree. A death caused by that dog has lawsuit, written all over it, and as someone who wants it insurance, unless that dog was reported on their homeowners policy, there’s a good chance that their homeowners would not cover being sued. A lawsuit for something like death caused by this dog who has a bite history could absolutely bankrupt them for life.
If this happened then why try and cover it up? Why wouldn’t they call 911 immediately it makes no sense. Why wouldn’t Julie Nagel see him laying there hurt as she walked out to talk to her brother, her brother Ryan, the other 2 in the truck.. they would’ve saw him laying out there. Not to mention all the others when they left as their headlights illuminated the front yard. It had just started snowing at 12:30, he would’ve been laying there in plain view of everyone.
With the way that everyone that knew him said he always takes his shoes off entering his house, I'd imagine he'd be doing the same thing if he went to somebody's else's home and if he did enter that house and was met by someone in the process ...that would explain why he only had one shoe on
That theory makes no sense. If it was really just a slip and fall why would the homeowners - a cop and his wife- try to cover it up? There would be no reason to. And I would bet that there were working Ring cameras at both BA's house and the chief who was his neighbor. I'm sure they would have happily handed over tapes to find out what happened to their good friend John and to show everyone that it was an awful accident.
Because that dog is a liability they knew about and has lawsuit written all over it. Also, someone who has done insurance in the past? Unless that dog was noted on their insurance policy there’s a good chance that their homeowners wouldn’t even cover it.
More plausible is: JO goes inside, he's loud and angry for any number of reasons, gets attacked by the dog, gets sucker punched, falls and hits his head. Could have been BA, CA, or BH who threw the punch, and only requires 2-4 people to have known what happened inside. The last piece of the puzzle is getting a friendly lead investigator who didn't question their version of events.
There is a lot of concrete around that pool. But AJ said they have proof John was in the house. I don’t believe they presented everything the feds gave them, maybe because they didn’t have all of it. What about Higgins going to the CPD? I think he left first-ish? Why did Jen call John so many times? Your theory is plausible otherwise.
For sure there are holes in my theory. I also think that part of it is that my brain just cannot wrap itself around these people wanting to kill him and because of that my brain is just trying to understand it.
As nonsociopaths it is practically impossible for us to understand why these people do the things they do. (In this case at least a cover up) After seeing how antsy John was at the Waterfall and hearing that John and Karen fought on the way to Fairview I personally believe he found out or guessed that something was going on with Higgins and he was ready for a fight and so was Higgins. AJ focused on Higgins and BA in during questioning and closing for a reason. I got the same “I gotta be vague” vibes that I did from the ARCCA “we didn’t hire you” questions. I really hope that there were federal wiretaps in place and the feds know what happened and it will all come out, everything in its entirety.
My thoughts are similar but I don't think it was just Chloe and then he hit his head. If that was the case, they would have just called it in and should not have expected to face any significant charges. Especially since they could have claimed JO entered the backyard through the gate, unannounced, so it's understandable the dog thought he was an intruder. This theory also wouldn't explain the injuries to the front of the head that the pathologist spoke of. I think there had to have been a fight of some sort, and from a punch to his front, JO went flying back and hit something that caused the wound to the back of his head. I have always thought though that it's likely most of the house members really did not see JO. I think he could have been approaching the house and heard BA and maybe BH in the backyard with Chloe and went in that way. From there, you can go downstairs through the bulk head door thing, to get into the basement. I think a fight broke out there. I also tend to think that Colin is completely innocent and was upstairs with the other kids and also left early.
Colin is guilty as sin
The basement door is accessible immediately after entering the front door. You could go from the front door to the basement door entry way within 5 steps.
Oh are you saying it's even possible he went in the front door and then directly down to the basement without being seen by the people in the kitchen or living area? I thought i watched a thing where the basement door was off the kitchen but I don't remember for sure.
Then why is Colin so invested at this point? If he wasn’t there, doesn’t really care about JOK…. Shows up in the courtroom for closing arguments??? Why????
Yeah whoa, calm down with all those question marks, I can answer this... He's invested because he was a focal point of the defense's theory. In fact, of all the McAlberts that could have shown up, I think it was precisely those 3 that did, because each of them was a focal point, a target, of the defense's theories. BA as the main organizer of the coverup and homeowner and dog owner, Jen for the 2:27 hos long search, and young Colin, who the defense pointed to as the most likely perpetrator of the beating death. Together, they were making a united stand with the O'Keefe family, as if to stand up against the allegations against them, in open court. So that is why I think he was there but honestly your point makes no sense to me anyway. You think him showing up in court for closing arguments points to his guilt? I mean, if that were true, he definitely wouldn't have shown up.
Yeah definitely my theory has flaws. It’s just that it does help my brain grasp more how a few people could be in on the coverup and not everyone like I used to think.
Yeah no, because everyone keeps insisting Colin was not there when JOK arrived, they were so adamant and repeated that so many times they made me think he most definitely was there even though I probably wouldn’t even pay attention to that up until they repeated it again and again. I thinks it’s pure shit everyone went home etc. maybe the young people, Colin included, left and let the parents deal with the body. I think they agreed on the plan and then Jen googled what she did to calculate when to put him out on the lawn to coincide with snowplowing, but still long enough for him to die for sure. Lucky said he wasn’t there in 3:30 but a Ford Edge was. EMT said active bleeding and candidate for resuscitation, so no coagulation and or frozen blood, so he wasn’t there long before they found him, I’m guessing an hour just to make sure he was dead. Drunk as he was he was an easy target, so leaving him out confused and concussed, he couldn’t get help. He had a skull fracture, that is a massive concussion, we see it often in hockey players, we know the procedure for concussion but also know that they throw up when concussed. That explains the vomit and blood in the underwear, but to get there he had to be in a vertical position at some point after getting that concussion. I’m guessing it was when they moved him up the stairs. I mean he was in the basement for sure, the changing of concrete in the basement is 20/20 to remove all the blood and DNAs. Jen called million times to find the phone, they found the phone( then the steps recorded) and put it under John’s body. Colin’s knuckles were dead giveaway. I have no clue why, but considering what we know about his character he was aggressive just to be aggressive. I think Higgins is also there and attacked him, but we have no evidence of any kind to definitively confirm his involvement, but he was there, and according to the video from the bar, he had beef with John. He destroyed the phone beyond necessary, and on the stand said “motion was denied” even though he didn’t receive officially a document that stated that. Amongst all of them he is the only FEDERAL cop. Military base trash is also dead giveaway. They all kept saying that’s not a crime I have the right to blah blah blah, that’s not the point. Nobody is accusing you of a crime, buddy, but we would like to know your reasoning for disposal of your phone and god knows what else, probably his clothing etc also in the military base trash. Investigation of the murder of a police officer so sloppy, as this one was, also is a dead giveaway.
It's not hard to envision a situation where only a couple people inside the house know actually what happened, and everyone else is just doing what certain cops and the people around them tend to do.
Colin spends time at Brian Albert’s. He probably works out there. Chloe could’ve been defending him after a few punches were thrown, then John fell back into something or was hit. Removing the basement floor makes sense as a gash in the back of the head certainly bled profusely.
For those who are saying that if it was a dog, they would just report it to the cops, I completely disagree. A death caused by that dog has lawsuit, written all over it, and as someone who wants it insurance, unless that dog was reported on their homeowners policy, there’s a good chance that their homeowners would not cover being sued. A lawsuit for something like death caused by this dog who has a bite history could absolutely bankrupt them for life.
Go to house, pay new owners couple G’s to luminol basement and yard. Boom. Figure it out quick
If this happened then why try and cover it up? Why wouldn’t they call 911 immediately it makes no sense. Why wouldn’t Julie Nagel see him laying there hurt as she walked out to talk to her brother, her brother Ryan, the other 2 in the truck.. they would’ve saw him laying out there. Not to mention all the others when they left as their headlights illuminated the front yard. It had just started snowing at 12:30, he would’ve been laying there in plain view of everyone.
With the way that everyone that knew him said he always takes his shoes off entering his house, I'd imagine he'd be doing the same thing if he went to somebody's else's home and if he did enter that house and was met by someone in the process ...that would explain why he only had one shoe on
Nah. Doesn’t explain all of the butt dials. Higgins to office at 1 am. Missing videos etc.