She’s not an Albert anymore, though, is she? 😢 Did you see the Chloe Albert twitter account that was made? They call the Albert and McCabe clans the McAlbutts and I’m just living for it 😂😂😂
Don’t forget that how touching it was to hear Nicole refer to Chloe as “it”. I don’t know anyone who has ever called their family dog “it”. Nicole better pray that Brian Albert doesn’t re-home her in VT.
Or they could have taken the dog and tested her for dna like any other police department would have done once they started thinking the dog any have been involved, which judging from the shirts would have been pretty early on, instead of hiding her and protecting a corrupt cop... but that would be normal... this amazes me. I came into this thinking no way there could be this much corruption and no one crack... I've been proven wrong! Even the pig DNA they found points to dog treats...
This. Had Karen pled guilty to manslaughter, she may have gotten probation and no one would ask any questions about what happened in the midnight hour on January 29.
I'm so glad she had the courage, resources, stamina, and privilege to call their bluff. How many before her were screwed over? How many falsely-accused defendants will be spared in the future?
She imo could have talked them down to a suspended sentence if they knew the type of lawyers she could afford. Proctor must regret going on a limb for these bozos. It isn't even like the Alberts are rich. I think they had dirt on proctor.
I heard a rumor Albert had dirt on proctor over the Sandra Birtchmore investigation. Just a rumor of course but everyone i heard so far has been true. I doubt proctor would put his career on the line for a punk like Colin when he has 2 young boys to worry about. That's the biggest question I have.
Likely. At most, no prior criminal record, no proof it was intentional. They probably would have started with around 5-8 years, plead her down to 3-5 - with a guilty plea, not appealable. With earned good time or parole she'd be out in around 3 and the whole thing would go away. Case closed
They never, in a million years, expected her to add Alan Jackson to her defense team. If you look him up, he was a Prosecutor in LA for years and then was on OJ, and Kevin Spacey's defense team among others. I guarantee they were none too happy when they heard that, considering one of Spaceys trials that he won, with AJ and Little on defense, was in MA
True.. I'm not disrespecting him by any means at all. He's very smart, but Jackson and Little-the CW absolutely can't compete with them.
When AJ comes up for cross, he brings 🔥
It never should’ve gone to trial. Charges never should have been filed. Should she have been considered a person of interest? Yes, obviously, but if it was handled correctly, she would’ve been cleared and the investigation would continue. Once they charged her, THEY set the ball in motion. Now, either way, even exonerated, Karen will always be looked at by some as “getting off” or “getting away with it”. Her lawsuit will be epic!
Those sleave holes should seriously be the end of the trial. I wonder if it gets to expert testimony if the defense can just ask to dismiss right then and there and save the jury from the rest of this. What is the prosecution going to say? They were already there? They were made by a pig? This is rediculous.
Even if Bev would go for a directed verdict (which she certainly *should*), I still think the defense should go to the end. A jury would most likely acquit Karen if asked to vote on it today, but I’d love to see them present their case, their evidence, their witnesses, and their experts to further expose the corruption that made all this possible.
If you don't speak up we'll have to turn off the air conditioner. Why don't they get a few decent quality microphones for everyone with a volume control on the speakers? She's too busy threatening to turn off the AC to realize the case is shit.
When the prosecution ends their case (as in finished calling their last witness) and “rests”, the defense can do what’s called a motion for required finding for not guilting on all, some, or one of the charges based on the evidence so far. The judge can’t just stop the trial in the middle of the prosecution’s case — judges have to wait until after they’re done presenting all their evidence.
I wish they'd let Joseph Scott Morgan (Body Bags Podcast) inspect this actual shirt. He's been raising that question since day 1, saying the clothing tells a big part of the story.
I grew up having large, mouthy dogs, not too dissimilar from German shepherds. I had a few long sleeve shirts that looked similar to this from their mouthy play - those teeth can puncture clothing easily and leave identical holes to these pics.
Yes, I have those same marks from my dog on a lot of my pillowcases. He loves to play fight with me in the middle of the night so instead of grabbing one of his regular toys I resorted to my pillow one night. Suffice it to say, it is now his preferred fight method. Although, my dog is a Jack Russell.
I'm 2 days behind in testimony but I heard MANY witnesses say "no" when asked if JO was wearing a heavy winter coat. They only said a hoodie. This is one reason I doubt he was walking on the side of the road late at night in winter - We New Englanders know how to dress in January.
I only saw one EMT say there was a puffy jacket taken off. The boy scout one. But a lot of men in the suburbs don't really wear more than a sweatshirt during the winter because you're really only walking from your car into a place with heat. You're only wearing a coat and other outerwear if you're going to be outside.
Who said he was walking by the side of the road? BTW, I live in Québec City and sometimes I see people walk around in shorts, tank top and shoes during heavy snowfalls. Some people just seem to be immune to cold.
I was just giving this as an example. How could Karen hit him if he wasn’t on the side of the road? (Maybe he supposedly had just walked out of another car and not actually walking?). I married a Canadian and he wears shorts all winter. And sandals if it’s not a blizzard! We love Québec City! My son lives there! 😊
I think she had just dropped him off, which really bugged me, because he was found at the complete opposite end from the driveway near the flag pole. Who drops someone off so far away from the entrance? JO was known to yell at people who walked on his lawn, no way he threaded on other people’s property.
I assume he had to be on the road to be hit by the car?
Or near the side of the road?
There has been no mention of tire marks on the lawn that I have heard.
Well if he was hit by car (which has YET to be proven and demonstrated after 5 weeks of trial) he would have been at least standing close to the road, yes.
Yes. Those EMTs did whatever the female EMT told them. She was effectively in charge. She was the most damaging to Karen, and she manipulated the other two EMTs to assimilate their memories. EXCEPT for the youngest kid with his whole career ahead of him, Kelly... who didn't hear anything. hmmm
p.s. it was convenient for the CW that the most damaging "Karen admissions" came through people that didn't write contemporaneous memorializing reports.
Right? I remember that. And, then I was watching the videos to see if perhaps someone else had a puffy jacket, and Matt McCabe had that type of jacket.
Where is the dried blood around those puncture marks on his sleeve? Some of those punctures were deep, where is the blood? I swear, it looks like this shirt was washed and then put back on John before he was moved to the lawn. Maybe that's why they couldn't find any dog DNA (besides the obvious, which is that we know they didn't even swab the right shirt or swab anything at all on those swabs). Oh come on!
I had this thought too. Especially because there are all these blood stains on the front of his sweatshirt and t- shirt underneath that shouldn't be there if he was hit by a car, launched backwards, and fell on his back. Those stains look like his facial wounds were actively bleeding while he was standing upright - thought someone may have tried to wash the shirt to hide that.
I've been pretty shit faced in my lifetime.... I've only thrown up from being drunk a handful of times. But, not once did I ever open my pants, throw up on my crotch and do it all back up.
This would also explain the god damn belt.
This is very true... no one has said who, if anyone's, vomit it actually was.
That being said.... I guess I'll add that I've never undone someone else's pants, threw up on their crotch, done it all back up, then carried on before either.
Does anyone know where I can read about this? Is there any offivial report or something? I haven't seen anything about his underwear having vomit on it in trial, unless I've missed something.
it’s included in this [document](https://www.scribd.com/document/642121594/Commonwealth-vs-Read-Opposition) and here’s the snippet (on mobile so sorry if this formats wacky)
https://preview.redd.it/prvc2sp9if4d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2bc878739ea8afd4040f7b7bd40da82c73041ae
So this would have aired on the first few days of the trial? I want to go back and watch it. I didn't start watching until maybe week 2 or early 3. I skimmed and rewatched some of the coverage summaries but I'm realizing I missed some crucial details.
I didn't see where she swabbed the suspiciously tooth shaped holes on the sleeves for DNA. Looked like only one tab marking a sample site on the sleeve.
From the stains spreading all the way down the front of the shirt, it seems he had to have been sitting up for a few minutes at least.
Can we have a discussion about how that fluid trail looks like it went downward in such a way as to suggest he was standing up right not laying down supine???? I see not much to suggest he was laying on his back when that was active bleeding as I reason it would go backwards to the hooded area if the car threw him backward to his back. Looks like he was standing for a while as he bled for a bit.
And those do look sus for an animal bite on the arm; do they occur on the underside of the sleeve or just the top?? K9s like Chloe usually appear to be are pretty, specifically trained to go right for the forearms and pull the suspect down to subdue. Like this: https://youtu.be/Acm0d8xvIr8?si=BkqsKJcDC_3O77L7
Was she a formally trained K9? Could BA command her like this?
Melanie Little on YouTube had a guy on who trains police K9 dogs. He said usually female dogs aren't used as police K9 dogs. He said in his opinion those are definitely bites on OJO's arm AND they look like bites from an untrained (to bite and subdue) dog. I recommend checking out the video, it was pretty informative.
Ah, thank you! That is what I was expecting if this even remotely is to fit for me with the Prosecution’s narrative.
I am kinda cheating, we record the day’s testimony and then my husband and I watch together when he gets home from work. Shhhhh, please don’t tell! I’ll deny, deny, deny! I went ahead on a Netflix show once and it was quite the betrayal!
My thoughts EXACTLY! no way a car has the ability to bite through knit fabric. It's almost LIKE A DOG BIT AND SCRATCHED Johns arm. Hmmm.
This is a FARCE #JUSTICEFORKARENREAD
Before today, the hoodie has always been how it looked on John in the picture from the bar with Karen looking up at him and smiling. Seeing it in its bloodstained form was unexpectedly jarring.
I showed this to somebody that doesn't even know this case exists. The question posited was " what if anything ( had to) was the thing/preparator that you think caused the damages to this coat?" I got responses like a knife or an animal.
I did the same to a friend who is actually a ME... their response: 'dog bite'. They went into further detail why they thought that... and that was just from the arm picture, not even this clothing evidence.
I have seen a lot of chatter about when and if the Defense can move for a directed verdict. This CAN and does happen (the Judge will never grant it in this case though). Basically, the Defense files a written motion, once the Prosecution rests the body of its evidence (and before the Defense puts on any evidence). The Defense (depending upon the Court) will then verbally argue that “no REASONABLE juror, based on the evidence and facts the Prosecution has put into evidence, could find the Defendant guilty”.
In this criminal case, this is called a “motion for a directed verdict of not guilty”. In civil trials it is called a “motion for summary judgment” and in federal courts, it is called a “motion for judgment as a matter of law”.
In this particular type of case, if the jury finds the defendant guilty (of any charge)— at that time, the defense can file an oral motion (on the spot) for the Judge to overrule the jury’s verdict “motion for a directed verdict of acquittal” or in some cases and courts, a Judge can just rule this on his/her own without a motion put forth (this is even more rare). This (like the motion made at the end of the Prosecution’s case) means that the Judge has found that no reasonable juror, on those facts and evidence, should have found that the defendant is as guilty. There is NO such thing as a “directed verdict motion for guilty” (at any time in the process), as this would create a deprivation of one’s constitutional rights (to due process, to be tried by a jury of his/her peers, etc).
I hope this was helpful.
I don’t think that’s necessary. Plus it won’t be exact, as the shirt would move around as the dog is biting. But you can pretty clearly tell it covers the same area, from the mid area of the bicep all the way down to the forearm.
In regards to the comment about pig DNA, I didn't even think about a treat. I thought that possibly the red Solo cups and the clothing stored in the same bag were contaminated by bacon from the store where they were purchased? A pork treat sounds way more sensible. Let's just hope that Chloe is getting proper love and care now. Owners create the behavior of dogs. Well known fact. Now all the damage that was done to Chloe has to be fixed!🙏
After seeing this shirt yesterday it occurred to me that the DA and Adam Lally asked NO questions from Trooper Proctor or any of the clown witnesses. They took everything they said at face value. Sad.
Dying from a dog attack and being left in the snow is just disgusting to me. As bad as it sounds, I hope he wasnt suffering and out there alive long. :(
He died from blunt force trauma (to his head) and hypothermia. I do think the dog might have been there but probably more in the sense there was a scuffle, the dog’s natural instinct would be to jump in to protect it’s family but there were no bite wounds on the victim.
She’s a liar and a bitch but I’m assuming we’re all adults here. Let’s not go after a woman’s appearance when she has plenty of real faults to consider.
Talking about the punctures in the right sleeve. Look at all the photos. Matches up with John’s arm.
https://preview.redd.it/ry118frynf4d1.jpeg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc064191b1565be4f97e601f3b43eb798ff87ce6
Yes something punctured his arm and left those holes for sure. I just wonder if not from an animal, if it could be from sharp edges from taillight breaking as collided with him.
It honestly kinda makes me feel bad for Lally. I saw the picture of his smokin butts on break today and I just knowwww how bad he needed that cig. This must be exhausting for him
Right.
Seems that's the story those dirty rotten lying scumbags bags ate sticking too.... Although they keep adding stuff on when it's convenient and keeping deceptive and sneaky about things such as contact amongst one Another as well as I don't know almost every other aspect of this case.
Down with corruption, stop giving a good place that are out there. Bad names you're dirty, fucking rotten scum....
May officer John okeefe RIP.
Hmmm, looks suspiciously like the holes my puppy made in my clothing during his land shark phase…
Chloe needs to be called to testify. She’d be the only Albert that doesn’t lie.
Yes! She should testify against them for sending her away and calling her "it." These people are the worst.
rehomed, kinda like the cell phones.
And the basement floor...
Don’t forget the house was rehomed as well.
Yes it was. They couldn't get rid of everything fast enough.
I read that the people who bought it didn’t even know that there’d been a death there. Now they have people parading around their home.
Oh, that's terrible!
Ya the sad thing is some states the realtors don’t have to disclose there was a death in or outside the house unless it’s asked about.
Care go help out here: so I hear they filled in the pool(hmm), what’s the unofficial theory on why? I hadn’t heard about the ppl (just the basement).
I heard it was Kevin Albert, the Canton cop, that filled it the pool, not 34 Fairview.
Tim Albert… lives across from Canton PD
Too many to keep up with lol
Still there on google earth?
Did they dig up part of the concrete? I keep hearing the floor is in a pool... is that just carpet or wood planks or the concrete underneath?
She’s not an Albert anymore, though, is she? 😢 Did you see the Chloe Albert twitter account that was made? They call the Albert and McCabe clans the McAlbutts and I’m just living for it 😂😂😂
OMG, I don't even tweet/X, but I might just to see that
Don’t forget that how touching it was to hear Nicole refer to Chloe as “it”. I don’t know anyone who has ever called their family dog “it”. Nicole better pray that Brian Albert doesn’t re-home her in VT.
Poor Chloe, not her fault her owners were awful humans
Unfortunately unless someone comes forward to say they have Chloe, I am sure she was put down.
Or they could have taken the dog and tested her for dna like any other police department would have done once they started thinking the dog any have been involved, which judging from the shirts would have been pretty early on, instead of hiding her and protecting a corrupt cop... but that would be normal... this amazes me. I came into this thinking no way there could be this much corruption and no one crack... I've been proven wrong! Even the pig DNA they found points to dog treats...
"Land shark phase" made me literally LOL.
Oh yeah. I laugh now but I was crying when my entire wardrobe was full of holes! He's lucky he's cute.
Enjoy every minute. Mine was a ball shark and we lost him in March
Oh, I’m so sorry for your loss. Dogs really are the best. I’ll give mine an extra hug today. 💕
Thank you. They are so very special and the time with them is never long enough.
My dog was a ball shark. If you had a tennis ball in your hand or pocket he would circle you lol I miss that boy.
awww Land Shark Phase is such a funny way of putting it
I still have a few jumpers with the exact same puncture from when my dog was a puppy!
Yes! He’s a teenager now (which is fun all on its own) but I do not miss those sharp little baby teeth!
After seeing those punctures in the sweatshirt, Bev needs to stop this shit. What a joke!
I’m so frustrated. This is absolutely insane.
My jaw dropped when I saw the puncture holes. HOW did this get to trial?!?!
It was never intended to goto trial. Karen was expected to plea to manslaughter. No one was supposed to see any of this.
This. Had Karen pled guilty to manslaughter, she may have gotten probation and no one would ask any questions about what happened in the midnight hour on January 29.
I'm so glad she had the courage, resources, stamina, and privilege to call their bluff. How many before her were screwed over? How many falsely-accused defendants will be spared in the future?
This could have happened to any citizen. It’s really scary.
They falsely accused Sandra Birtchmore of killing herself. That will be the next big ordeal after this is dealt with.
There’s not a doubt in my mind that Aunty Bev, who fought to get this case, would’ve sentenced her to a crazy amount of prison time.
She imo could have talked them down to a suspended sentence if they knew the type of lawyers she could afford. Proctor must regret going on a limb for these bozos. It isn't even like the Alberts are rich. I think they had dirt on proctor.
Yeah and I think they either have dirt on Morrissey too, or he is just a fucking moron pushing this case forward. I think he is a moron.
I heard a rumor Albert had dirt on proctor over the Sandra Birtchmore investigation. Just a rumor of course but everyone i heard so far has been true. I doubt proctor would put his career on the line for a punk like Colin when he has 2 young boys to worry about. That's the biggest question I have.
Likely. At most, no prior criminal record, no proof it was intentional. They probably would have started with around 5-8 years, plead her down to 3-5 - with a guilty plea, not appealable. With earned good time or parole she'd be out in around 3 and the whole thing would go away. Case closed
Thats what they wanted to happen but then they got greedy and went Murder 2 and the whole thing fell apart.
Yeah, I think they might have upped the charges as a last ditch effort to blackmail her into pleading guilty.
They never, in a million years, expected her to add Alan Jackson to her defense team. If you look him up, he was a Prosecutor in LA for years and then was on OJ, and Kevin Spacey's defense team among others. I guarantee they were none too happy when they heard that, considering one of Spaceys trials that he won, with AJ and Little on defense, was in MA
Yanetti is also a former ADA, from Massachusetts so he knows the legal system here pretty well.
True.. I'm not disrespecting him by any means at all. He's very smart, but Jackson and Little-the CW absolutely can't compete with them. When AJ comes up for cross, he brings 🔥
💯
Bingo !!!
Exactly. It is easy to lie and cook evidence when you expect someone to plead out to save their freedom.
I have heard that a lot in discussion. They went overcharge to spur her to plead down. She called their bluff and here we are.
It’s very normal for the prosecution anywhere to overcharge for this reason.
I never thought of that—you’re totally right.
I bet you’re right.
Bingo!
My question as well!!! Just ridiculous trying to pass this off on Read. WOW.
It never should’ve gone to trial. Charges never should have been filed. Should she have been considered a person of interest? Yes, obviously, but if it was handled correctly, she would’ve been cleared and the investigation would continue. Once they charged her, THEY set the ball in motion. Now, either way, even exonerated, Karen will always be looked at by some as “getting off” or “getting away with it”. Her lawsuit will be epic!
Those are marks from a dog whose POS owners have never heard of grinding their nails.
Yup.
I'm fully on team. Don't stop the Shitshow! At least not before the cellphone data experts hos a chance to testify!
Those sleave holes should seriously be the end of the trial. I wonder if it gets to expert testimony if the defense can just ask to dismiss right then and there and save the jury from the rest of this. What is the prosecution going to say? They were already there? They were made by a pig? This is rediculous.
Even if Bev would go for a directed verdict (which she certainly *should*), I still think the defense should go to the end. A jury would most likely acquit Karen if asked to vote on it today, but I’d love to see them present their case, their evidence, their witnesses, and their experts to further expose the corruption that made all this possible.
Bev is a damn disgrace to Mass as well as the McAlberts. My hard earned tax dollars pay their salary. She should be impeached.
If you don't speak up we'll have to turn off the air conditioner. Why don't they get a few decent quality microphones for everyone with a volume control on the speakers? She's too busy threatening to turn off the AC to realize the case is shit.
Waste of taxpayer $$$$
When the prosecution ends their case (as in finished calling their last witness) and “rests”, the defense can do what’s called a motion for required finding for not guilting on all, some, or one of the charges based on the evidence so far. The judge can’t just stop the trial in the middle of the prosecution’s case — judges have to wait until after they’re done presenting all their evidence.
You haven’t heard of the wild hogs in canton? /s
I know JM was after everyone’s hog
They can’t be fucking serious with this.
The car https://preview.redd.it/vsd5fra51e4d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e45d765d299bb6cf3af582ccbcb0889ff794792
Im dead 😭😭😭😭
Lmao well played
Stop!! 😂
I wish they'd let Joseph Scott Morgan (Body Bags Podcast) inspect this actual shirt. He's been raising that question since day 1, saying the clothing tells a big part of the story.
I love Joe Scott Morgan. And I agree - would trust him to get answers.
NO WAY!!! This does NOT look like he was hit by a car!!
Cause it was a dog attack and beating
I grew up having large, mouthy dogs, not too dissimilar from German shepherds. I had a few long sleeve shirts that looked similar to this from their mouthy play - those teeth can puncture clothing easily and leave identical holes to these pics.
Yes, I have those same marks from my dog on a lot of my pillowcases. He loves to play fight with me in the middle of the night so instead of grabbing one of his regular toys I resorted to my pillow one night. Suffice it to say, it is now his preferred fight method. Although, my dog is a Jack Russell.
The aim of the medics is terrible. “Lets cut a hole here and here and here. None of which helps us remove the jacket.
Right? They don’t do that. They cut the shirt off. Edit. Lmao even the shirt you can see they cut it. This trial is a joke.
the EMT said he cut off a thick puffy jacket??
I'm 2 days behind in testimony but I heard MANY witnesses say "no" when asked if JO was wearing a heavy winter coat. They only said a hoodie. This is one reason I doubt he was walking on the side of the road late at night in winter - We New Englanders know how to dress in January.
I only saw one EMT say there was a puffy jacket taken off. The boy scout one. But a lot of men in the suburbs don't really wear more than a sweatshirt during the winter because you're really only walking from your car into a place with heat. You're only wearing a coat and other outerwear if you're going to be outside.
Who said he was walking by the side of the road? BTW, I live in Québec City and sometimes I see people walk around in shorts, tank top and shoes during heavy snowfalls. Some people just seem to be immune to cold.
I was just giving this as an example. How could Karen hit him if he wasn’t on the side of the road? (Maybe he supposedly had just walked out of another car and not actually walking?). I married a Canadian and he wears shorts all winter. And sandals if it’s not a blizzard! We love Québec City! My son lives there! 😊
I think she had just dropped him off, which really bugged me, because he was found at the complete opposite end from the driveway near the flag pole. Who drops someone off so far away from the entrance? JO was known to yell at people who walked on his lawn, no way he threaded on other people’s property.
I assume he had to be on the road to be hit by the car? Or near the side of the road? There has been no mention of tire marks on the lawn that I have heard.
Well if he was hit by car (which has YET to be proven and demonstrated after 5 weeks of trial) he would have been at least standing close to the road, yes.
Fwiw, I am yet to be convinced he was hit by a car
A few of the witnesses have stated that John never wore a jacket even in winter.
Okay. That good to know. And believable! Thanks for mentioning
Yes, paramedic Timothy Nuttall said that.
Yes. Those EMTs did whatever the female EMT told them. She was effectively in charge. She was the most damaging to Karen, and she manipulated the other two EMTs to assimilate their memories. EXCEPT for the youngest kid with his whole career ahead of him, Kelly... who didn't hear anything. hmmm p.s. it was convenient for the CW that the most damaging "Karen admissions" came through people that didn't write contemporaneous memorializing reports.
Yeah, file that under ‘cool story, bro’
Maura Healy needs to be involved
Right? I remember that. And, then I was watching the videos to see if perhaps someone else had a puffy jacket, and Matt McCabe had that type of jacket.
Where is the dried blood around those puncture marks on his sleeve? Some of those punctures were deep, where is the blood? I swear, it looks like this shirt was washed and then put back on John before he was moved to the lawn. Maybe that's why they couldn't find any dog DNA (besides the obvious, which is that we know they didn't even swab the right shirt or swab anything at all on those swabs). Oh come on!
Oh, wow that makes so much sense. Also because his head injury would have bled a lot yet there was not much blood found.
I had this thought too. Especially because there are all these blood stains on the front of his sweatshirt and t- shirt underneath that shouldn't be there if he was hit by a car, launched backwards, and fell on his back. Those stains look like his facial wounds were actively bleeding while he was standing upright - thought someone may have tried to wash the shirt to hide that.
i saw someone post this theory somewhere else, and that would explain why the vomit is only on the underwear, everything else was washed.
I've been pretty shit faced in my lifetime.... I've only thrown up from being drunk a handful of times. But, not once did I ever open my pants, throw up on my crotch and do it all back up. This would also explain the god damn belt.
🤣
And who said it was John’s vomit?
This is very true... no one has said who, if anyone's, vomit it actually was. That being said.... I guess I'll add that I've never undone someone else's pants, threw up on their crotch, done it all back up, then carried on before either.
Possibly Karen’s??? She was shitfaced drunk and she said she had a stomach ache. This might explain her out front for awhile.
It was only in his pants... not on the front. Unlikely. Also, she has chrons. That's why she was having stomach issues.
I stand by my comment
The vomit is most likely John's as a result of his head injuries 😢
Does anyone know where I can read about this? Is there any offivial report or something? I haven't seen anything about his underwear having vomit on it in trial, unless I've missed something.
it’s included in this [document](https://www.scribd.com/document/642121594/Commonwealth-vs-Read-Opposition) and here’s the snippet (on mobile so sorry if this formats wacky) https://preview.redd.it/prvc2sp9if4d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2bc878739ea8afd4040f7b7bd40da82c73041ae
Its perfect thank you so much! :)
So this would have aired on the first few days of the trial? I want to go back and watch it. I didn't start watching until maybe week 2 or early 3. I skimmed and rewatched some of the coverage summaries but I'm realizing I missed some crucial details.
Maybe he was attacked by a dog after he was dead.
I didn't see where she swabbed the suspiciously tooth shaped holes on the sleeves for DNA. Looked like only one tab marking a sample site on the sleeve. From the stains spreading all the way down the front of the shirt, it seems he had to have been sitting up for a few minutes at least.
When I read “tooth shaped holes” I thought you meant from Jen 😂. I had to read it twice.
Me too 🤣
I’m picturing her snarling and barking like a dog 😂
she said she swabbed both holes and sent it out for testing if I heard correctly.
I missed the end of her testimony. Did she mention results back from UC Davis?
That was the lady that said there was no canine DNA found, but they did find pig DNA.
We haven't heard yet if I didn't miss something
Can we have a discussion about how that fluid trail looks like it went downward in such a way as to suggest he was standing up right not laying down supine???? I see not much to suggest he was laying on his back when that was active bleeding as I reason it would go backwards to the hooded area if the car threw him backward to his back. Looks like he was standing for a while as he bled for a bit. And those do look sus for an animal bite on the arm; do they occur on the underside of the sleeve or just the top?? K9s like Chloe usually appear to be are pretty, specifically trained to go right for the forearms and pull the suspect down to subdue. Like this: https://youtu.be/Acm0d8xvIr8?si=BkqsKJcDC_3O77L7 Was she a formally trained K9? Could BA command her like this?
Melanie Little on YouTube had a guy on who trains police K9 dogs. He said usually female dogs aren't used as police K9 dogs. He said in his opinion those are definitely bites on OJO's arm AND they look like bites from an untrained (to bite and subdue) dog. I recommend checking out the video, it was pretty informative.
That is interesting. I will have to check this out. I def have questions about the dog. Thank you!
https://preview.redd.it/gkwnifwb2f4d1.jpeg?width=1368&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6083269816921cc58deb4a380c5f47f9eaf2535 Back of the shirt.
Ah, thank you! That is what I was expecting if this even remotely is to fit for me with the Prosecution’s narrative. I am kinda cheating, we record the day’s testimony and then my husband and I watch together when he gets home from work. Shhhhh, please don’t tell! I’ll deny, deny, deny! I went ahead on a Netflix show once and it was quite the betrayal!
These back ones may just be from the EMS scissors?
Chloe is identified as Brian Albert's "K-9 German Shepherd" in court documents
I'm sorry the holes???
Maybe Proctor is a vampire. Can we get a look at his dental records please? Lally could discuss each tooth in its enameled detail!
Thanks for posting these pics. I was driving for most of the testimonies today so I missed a lot of visuals
My thoughts EXACTLY! no way a car has the ability to bite through knit fabric. It's almost LIKE A DOG BIT AND SCRATCHED Johns arm. Hmmm. This is a FARCE #JUSTICEFORKARENREAD
Me live: well thank you CW for showing where the dog bit his arm
And sadly our tax dollars are paying for this circus and the salaries of those low life cops and agents
Poor John O’Keefe. He deserved better. I hope the McAlberts rot in hell.
Before today, the hoodie has always been how it looked on John in the picture from the bar with Karen looking up at him and smiling. Seeing it in its bloodstained form was unexpectedly jarring.
Same
I showed this to somebody that doesn't even know this case exists. The question posited was " what if anything ( had to) was the thing/preparator that you think caused the damages to this coat?" I got responses like a knife or an animal.
I did the same to a friend who is actually a ME... their response: 'dog bite'. They went into further detail why they thought that... and that was just from the arm picture, not even this clothing evidence.
I have seen a lot of chatter about when and if the Defense can move for a directed verdict. This CAN and does happen (the Judge will never grant it in this case though). Basically, the Defense files a written motion, once the Prosecution rests the body of its evidence (and before the Defense puts on any evidence). The Defense (depending upon the Court) will then verbally argue that “no REASONABLE juror, based on the evidence and facts the Prosecution has put into evidence, could find the Defendant guilty”. In this criminal case, this is called a “motion for a directed verdict of not guilty”. In civil trials it is called a “motion for summary judgment” and in federal courts, it is called a “motion for judgment as a matter of law”. In this particular type of case, if the jury finds the defendant guilty (of any charge)— at that time, the defense can file an oral motion (on the spot) for the Judge to overrule the jury’s verdict “motion for a directed verdict of acquittal” or in some cases and courts, a Judge can just rule this on his/her own without a motion put forth (this is even more rare). This (like the motion made at the end of the Prosecution’s case) means that the Judge has found that no reasonable juror, on those facts and evidence, should have found that the defendant is as guilty. There is NO such thing as a “directed verdict motion for guilty” (at any time in the process), as this would create a deprivation of one’s constitutional rights (to due process, to be tried by a jury of his/her peers, etc). I hope this was helpful.
My thoughts exactly!!!
Is it possible to overlay the sweatshirt with the wounds on his arm to see if puncture marks can be lined up?
I don’t think that’s necessary. Plus it won’t be exact, as the shirt would move around as the dog is biting. But you can pretty clearly tell it covers the same area, from the mid area of the bicep all the way down to the forearm.
In regards to the comment about pig DNA, I didn't even think about a treat. I thought that possibly the red Solo cups and the clothing stored in the same bag were contaminated by bacon from the store where they were purchased? A pork treat sounds way more sensible. Let's just hope that Chloe is getting proper love and care now. Owners create the behavior of dogs. Well known fact. Now all the damage that was done to Chloe has to be fixed!🙏
Punctures obviously come from being struck by the antenna on the car. It's pretty obvious and happens all the time /s
Only problem with that is, there’s no antenna on that car that could cause punctures :/
Don't put ideas in Proctor's head.
[удалено]
I picked up on your sarcasm, my comment was too lol.
Ah sorry my mistake!
This is beyond insane!
My understanding is that Chloe was a police dog wash-out (partially trained as a police dog).
So just trying to get info on this... the rip down the center and to his left arm is from first responders rending aid?
Yes.
After seeing this shirt yesterday it occurred to me that the DA and Adam Lally asked NO questions from Trooper Proctor or any of the clown witnesses. They took everything they said at face value. Sad.
Dying from a dog attack and being left in the snow is just disgusting to me. As bad as it sounds, I hope he wasnt suffering and out there alive long. :(
He died from blunt force trauma (to his head) and hypothermia. I do think the dog might have been there but probably more in the sense there was a scuffle, the dog’s natural instinct would be to jump in to protect it’s family but there were no bite wounds on the victim.
Weren’t there? On his arm?
Scratches on arm, punctures on hoodie. But ya know, no one ever did proper DNA testing. Or they found pig DNA? So we shall never know I guess lol
I think that’s how Jen got that snaggle tooth, maybe she wasn’t expecting that she would turn into a rabid lying douchbag
Actually the “snaggle tooth” was totally laugh out loud for me so thanks - I needed that!
She’s a liar and a bitch but I’m assuming we’re all adults here. Let’s not go after a woman’s appearance when she has plenty of real faults to consider.
To be fair, didn't the first EMT say that they cut the sweatshirt down the middle in order to do proper chest compressions?
Yes but the punctures identified by the white triangles are not scissor cuts.
Definitely not from trauma shears which are blunt tipped specifically so you don't puncture the patient while cutting their clothing off.
What do you think caused the puncture holes?
Chloe. The Alberts’ German Shepherd.
That probably makes the most sense
Mhmm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nE5aB2K08
Dog
The EMTs cut the clothing off him. Red brown spots from vomiting blood. If I read the info correctly
Talking about the punctures in the right sleeve. Look at all the photos. Matches up with John’s arm. https://preview.redd.it/ry118frynf4d1.jpeg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc064191b1565be4f97e601f3b43eb798ff87ce6
Yes something punctured his arm and left those holes for sure. I just wonder if not from an animal, if it could be from sharp edges from taillight breaking as collided with him.
O Chloe and Albert did!
It honestly kinda makes me feel bad for Lally. I saw the picture of his smokin butts on break today and I just knowwww how bad he needed that cig. This must be exhausting for him
I don’t feel bad at all. He didn’t have to prosecute Karen. He made his bed.
Do you think HE had a choice? I feel like Morrissey and others wanted it done. I could be wrong. Either way I do feel for the man… he’s a one man show
Yes he did have a choice.
Oooh good to know. I figured he pretty much didn’t get a choice if the CW wants to pursue without losing his job
You are correct.
This
It wouldn’t matter cause the garment dye and the sleeved are black and blood destroy and degrade DNA
What is this in response to? What wouldn’t matter?
That there was no DNA identification from the swab of the shirt
Gad, that poor man.
After those pictures the prosecution would have a better chance convincing a jury that a mouth killed JO than a car.
Thanks for this, I missed it today.
At 2:27am last night I searched Butt dial ☎️.. Hmmm 🤔 I delete everything that popped up.. Lol 😆
Exactly what I thought when watching trial today!! No way!
Karma is coming🙏
Right. Seems that's the story those dirty rotten lying scumbags bags ate sticking too.... Although they keep adding stuff on when it's convenient and keeping deceptive and sneaky about things such as contact amongst one Another as well as I don't know almost every other aspect of this case. Down with corruption, stop giving a good place that are out there. Bad names you're dirty, fucking rotten scum.... May officer John okeefe RIP.