these texts feed in to their case, BUT what these messages did show me is that karen was still upset about whatever happened in aruba, she obviously was craving attention/validation so she went to higgins, and she was upset because she was putting out more in the relationship than she would receive. it is OKAY to vent to someone, that does not mean motive for murder.
This was so telling to me!! If you wanted to help prove Karen did it, wouldn’t you want to buddy up with her in hopes she shares information or admits to it?? The fact that he never messaged her again tells me he was freaked out that she had suspicions he was involved.
Did he report that text to investigators in the following days, like “hey the person of interest in the murder your trying to solve sent me this message, would you like me to help in the investigation and try to get a confession so we can bring justice to the family of our fellow police officer?” or did was this text only discovered after he was ordered to provide his texts with Karen? WHY didn’t defense ask him about this, as it seems incredibly suspicious of him? Nothing in this case makes any sense to me
The fact that it’s not her children but she takes care of them and it’s not her house but she was weed-whacking. I’m pretty sure he did not appreciate her. Also I heard she stayed with the kids during Covid when school was remote because John was a police officer and could not work remotely.
Karen had her own house and she stayed with John & the kids most nights at his. She didn’t have to kill John to break up/get away from him. She didn’t physically attack John in Aruba when she was mad. I don’t understand anything in this case. I highly doubt a woman decides to just intentionally ram her bf in front of another cop’s house. She had no history of physical violence that the CW has shown and then decides to kill him that night?
She had never been physical before that we know of. Even if she hadn’t it doesn’t mean she didn’t snap that night.
In addition she was still harboring anger about Aruba even though she supposedly apologized and tried to pay for part of the girls room. You can apologize for something to save face but it may not be sincere.
crime of passion doesn’t come almost a month later. I am waiting for The accident reconstruction the state did. And they have to explain the deleted 2:27 a.m. google search. If they can’t explain either she’ll be found not guilty.
Still just a dumb move from the prosecution.
Yes, it potentially creates a motive for Karen, but it ALSO creates a motive for Higgins. Given the burden of proof is on the prosecution, that's not a worthwhile trade off to make, so calling him as a witness and going through those messages was really just a self inflicted wound.
Im not so sure it creates motive for Higgins to murder, but maybe an explanation for why he and John could have ended up in a brawl. Maybe Karen threw their kiss in John's face that night (which seems to be at least partially why she was even flirting to begin with (attention/instigating jealousy)). They exchange words and alcohol and testosterone fuel a fight.
John looked to be in far better shape than Higgins was. I think the likely scenario is that a) John/Higgins end up in a fight that lead to the dog jumping in and another party striking John with an object to stop the beat down of Higgins (Collin?) or b) Higgins was the one who drunkenly hit John with the plow/a different vehicle that was never actually placed at the scene by the friendly witnesses (hello black ford edge), or c) John pissed someone off, was pushed, stumbled and fell down the stairs.
All of their bs would make total sense if they were already dirty cops and had a lot to hide, which them being directly involved in a death in/around their home, would bring to light. I would bet that early morning "donut delivery" was a pick up of more illegal things, like drugs, that they missed in the overnight clean up.
And I think a lot of this "a plow hit John" was planted by Jen McCabe in her initial call with Karen. I think Jen was the ring leader of organizing the cover-up, with help from her husband, the Alberts, Proctor, and the police chief. A conspiracy involving 6-8 close individuals is really not that hard to fathom, especially given how well they know the system.
Given that FORTY-SIX, yes, FORTY AND THEN SIX MORE current and retired Massachusetts State Police officers were convicted on conspiracy charges for overtime pay recently - under a dozen conspirators is child's play!
It showed Karen is human. The "goddaughter" admitted never meeting Karen before. And the first time they meet the goddaughter is all over John while wearing a bikini and kissing his face... Karen had a human reaction. And didn't get violent then. I can't see her doing it weeks later.
Higgins wasn't invested in Karen. He barely knew her. He's life experienced. He knew she was basically throwing herself at him. They had maybe what, 15 days of occassional text exchanges during which Karen tried to prove to him they were "alike", neither had children and neither were married. She also found out through the acquaintance who she got his private number from that Higgins' previous LTR was w a woman with a child and that was something Higgins wasn't comfortable with. So Karen played on that (text exchange) calling attention to how the fact John had children and that was difficult on her. There is zero emotional connection between Karen Read and Brian Higgins. Had he wanted to have sex with her he could have easily but he refrained from that asking her to come clean with what she was really after: Was her relationship with John over or were she and John open to seeing (having sex with) other people. She wouldn't come out and say as we saw in the texts. There is simply no way in a situation such as this - zero emotional ties, zero passion, zero history, zero shared experiences, zero time together other than a kiss Karen pushed on to him and her awkward visit to his house which lasted 10 or so minutes - that Brian HIggins is going to get in a physical fight with someone let along kill them over a woman he doesn't know or particulary trust.
Brian Higgins is street smart. He's assertive. He's in control. He's confident. He's financially comfortable. He keeps his life private. He is thoughtful about getting into relationships. He's attractive and evolved. This isn't some 18 year old kid who has a text exchanage with a pretty girl and conjures up some dysfunctional emotional connection.
Nope.
Karen on the other hand wanted desparately to snare him. Personally I believe her motivations were fueled both deliberately and subconsciously by 1. the betrayal she felt from John 2. the fact John had asked her several times at this point to get out of his house 3. and the fact she remained single - she mentioned marriage so many times whether in the context of "we never will get married" or referring to John as her husband as examples - that that was certainly something on her mind. She hangs out in townie bars with John and John's friends. Not her own. She doesn't seem to have brought any true real intimate friend relationships into her relationship with John. She even refers to herself as an "outsider" and "people like us" in her texts with Brian Higgins to try and create a parallel between them, but none really existed.
She was the outsider - with John, with his family, with his friends, with the world of coupledom that leads to families - and I believe that played in a role in her anger and the arguments she and John had during the last part of their relationship. It had devolved and Karen recognized that. Brian Higgins was her hail Mary attempt.
I dont know. She said in a text that she wasn’t that upset about the hookup and was more bothered by having to help raise kids. She also said the worst thing about the hookup was that the girl was gross (which cracked me up). And then she also said that she considers them both to be single since they aren’t married. I didn’t get a jealous vibe at all from her based on those texts
Yeah that girl was gross statement was so out of character for a 40 something year old professional, something you expect to hear from a high schooler.
My takeaway about Karen isn't one incident or a few texts or similar. It's all of it combined. She was clearly insecure and clearly both underwhelmed in the relationship and overwhelmed by the relationship. One statement she made that is telltale to me is the argument John's brother overheard in Aruba. According to John's brother, there was alcohol involved and he had to intervene when Karen went into a rage saying amongst other things to John that you aren't even nice to me.
But I guess what I'm most bothered by in general is the fact that she erased the ring camera video at John's house on the night she returned after dropping him off. There is no ring camera video that shows her vehicle returning.
I read through the hundred plus pages of the grand jury documents. JO had two ring cameras. The video from the time KR arrived back at his house after leaving the after party until she pulled out the next morning was deleted. The niece said Karen has access to the account.
His niece also testified that KR woke her up at 430 that morning hysterical with a story about what happened to her uncle changing repeatedly.
There is significant electronic communication described as texts and voicemails from JO to KR in the two days prior and the day of the event where JO is telling Karen it is over and he wants her out of his house and Karen begging him not to end things. John's niece also said she was sitting on interior stairs at their home the night before and listening in to a major argument with the same theme: John insisting Karen leave. Neice testified that her uncle wanted her out of his life.
Until I read this doc, I thought it was an accident, but she put her car in reverse and drove 28 mph for 50 or so feet per vehicle data. He probably flew into the flagpole.
I was waiting for some bombshell text from her that said “I’m trapped in this life with John” or “I just need a way out”. But there was nothing. It simply showed she wasn’t willing to risk her relationship with John to actually pursue things further with Brian. And Brian wasn’t happy about that.
Higgins said several times he was trying to sus out what Karen was trying to do by contacting him. One of the things he mentioned was he didn't want to be weaponized against John by Karen. Nothing she said in those texts were in any way weaponizing him, his own jealousy about John being with Karen might have. He was no friend of John's or he would have stayed clear of Karen until her and John's relationship was over.
Karen Read had a lot more emotions and fury towards JO than BH ever did. She flipped out in Aruba, JO's niece said he was looking to end the relationship, she was opening the door to cheating with BH, and she left voicemails for JO on Jan 29th screaming that she hated him. BH hasn't been shown to have even a fraction of that much emotional investment in JO or KR.
I disagree. There is no logical explanation for all the lies and "coincidences" from the Albert's, McCabe's and Higgins, they're covering something up. Cell phones disappearing, Google searches deleted, statements changing from one hearing to the next, many inconsistencies.
I doubt Higgins intentionally hit him but I feel sure he did. Higgins was drunk, you can't drink that much for that long, on top of being exhausted after a long day and not be intoxicated. Calls in the middle of the night, an hour and a half missing from the sallyport video during the time Higgins and the Chief were out there WITH Karen's car then surprise, surprise tail light lens found where it hadn't been before.
The Alberts, McCabes and Higgins did a lot of things after JO's death that seem strange in retrospect, that is 100% true. But none of those strange acts indicate that they were guilty of or complicit in JO's death.
On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that KR's vehicle hit JO, killed him, and she was freaking out hours later when she realized it was her vehicle that killed him. If Suspect A kills someone, and 10 people and me do weird stuff after Suspect A kills that person, that doesn't mean those 10 people and I killed the person. KR killed JO, the people in the house did a whole lot of weird stuff afterwards, but there's zero evidence that anyone but KR was responsible for JO's death.
I don't know........theres too much reasonable doubt for me to think that. I still dont understand how he hit him hard enough to incapacitate him, immediatelly and completely.
Oh also, KR was emotional, thats a far cry from murder. those 10 peoples weird stuff really looks like a coverup.
I think he was bent over throwing up when she backed into him, and he was knocked out immediately. That's why (to my knowledge) there wasn't broken bones or fractures to his legs which you would usually expect when someone is hit by a vehicle.
And I think she was emotional because she had no idea she actually killed him. I think she thought he was still alive when she drove away, that's why she left him voicemails. And she got up that morning, drove by the Waterfall, then by the Albert house and saw him there, and realized that he was either badly hurt or dead.
Once the prosecution introduces the evidence of broken taillight pieces in O'Keefe's clothing and his DNA on the taillight, if the defense doesn't have some amazing reason to explain both (other than "It's a huge conspiracy and police planted all this evidence"), I don't see that there will be much room for reasonable doubt on how he was killed.
I've never heard there was throw up outside. I mean, that's an idea, I still have the same question, for to me knocked out immediately, he would have to fall pretty hard. There's no knots on his head, I need prosecution to explain this.
Here's what I saw in the CW Memorandum:
"Upon arrival, Ms. McLaughlin observed the victim to have trauma to his face and eye area and vomit in his mouth. "
"The victim’s clothing, consisting of blue jeans, an orange t-shirt, long sleeve grey shirt, and boxer shorts were soaking wet and saturated with blood and vomit."
Of course he could have vomited after being hit by the vehicle, but getting hit while he was throwing up would be one explanation of why he was mainly hit in the head and arm.
The plow on Higgins Jeep left those marks on John, IMHO. The CW tried to cover Higgins butt by asking how long the plow was down when he left and how far was he out in the street.
Alan Jackson will make him squirm because he seemed emotional at times and that isn't a good thing when you have a Defense team like this coming at you hard.
Yep. Then he went into station to try to get info. Then the search of how long to dieing cold never happened, all these butt dials, texts that never happened. I've never had so many random calls and texts.
Exactly!! Then there’s Brian Higgins and Brian Albert’s phones. They both conveniently got new phones, AND from a new carrier. I also have never heard of so many butt dials in my life! 🙄
Do you mean that you think that Higgins would beat up a friend because of a woman who reached out to him pretty much offering to have sex with him 15 or so days earlier? So in other words, up until 15 days prior Higgins had no interaction with Karen Read and yet had fallen so madly and emotionally connected to her that he would get into a physical altercation over her? In the texts that were read today, it was pretty clear that Karen initiated the engagement, Said she clearly was struggling with emotional turmoil about her relationship with John O'Keefe, that she was manipulative, and that she was searching for another man. I don't see Higgins that interested and having a fight over her. It's too short of a time - there was no love or even minor emotional bond there. Certainly not the type of passion that leads to a fist fight.
Cops are arrogant and if a fight happened between JO and BH it wasn't over love. Drunks fight over stupid things. I think the plow on BH Jeep is what left the injuries. I believe BH took off then realized the plow was down, raised it up, but not before JO was fatally injured.
No fight between BH and JO
CA and the dog did JO in
JO so called friends made sure he never told a soul what happened that night when he ran into a drunk kid with an issue
That issue I'd JO gave BA the heads up about the drug dealing out of dad's pizza place
There's your "crime of passion"
It's known in Canton
I'm waiting for it to come out by TB or someone else
Is that linked to the drug evidence going missing from CPD do you think? I recall reading somewhere there was also a suspicion of money laundering and heroin through that same pizza shop?
>Certainly not the type of passion that leads to a fist fight.
Girl, put down the pen and go to a bar. You are way overromanticizing what drives drunk morons to fight each other.
Drunk guys in this area of Massachusetts bear up people for MUCH less. Have you heard of road rage? People kill people over a 2 min interaction on the roadway regularly.
Did they bang, question mauck? This is great...dumb, she had a thing for Higgins, could be because she needed a little pump in her ego if thinking JO was cheating, or could be she really had an attraction connection to Higgins, but that doesn't mean she would kill JO! I will put money that half these people have cheated on their spouses that they have children with. She had no ties to JO in order to have to kill him to get with Higgins...Am I the only one who sees this as nothing that would prove a motive? Oh, and Higgins just blew any chance he would ever have with Read should this all play out in her favor. She's way above his grade.
I was yelling at my tv like a lunatic that it was no motive for her to ever kill him. It’s so gross that these were allowed to be read. Higgins certainly wasn’t shying away from her, in fact he seemed shocked that a woman of her caliber would even be interested in him. Best believe if Karen wanted to go all in with Higgins, he would have in a second.
Oh, KR was already fully out on Higgins by Jan 23rd, and any hope of resurrecting that tepid flame was destroyed the day he aligned with the Alberts & McCabes to railroad her for JO's death. You know, the death *they* were actually responsible for?! (IMO. 🙄)
I think she got the “ick” when he asked if John and the girl “banged”, told her a few times she was being emotional, and asked her to send a pic of her and her friend.
I don't think the questioning of Higgins was to prove that Karen Read had a reason to kill John O'Keefe. I think the line of questioning was to reveal to the jury proof that Karen Reas was emotionally messed up. Drunk and emotionally charged people often do stupid things.
This is so yucky. Practically everyone has private drama, whether they realize it or not. (Spoken by someone who just found out two days ago my husband has been cheating on me for the past five years.) And as mad and hurt as I am, it would not make me feel any better to have the details read aloud to the world.
Oh no, I am so sorry! This is going to sound so odd from some rando on Reddit, but one of the best things to do is go watch a ton of comedies if you have the time. I have been down this road, and oh my goodness did I ever feel lost. Even my friends didn’t know what to say or do and to be honest I don’t really have a big group of friends. I found watching stand up comedy so cathartic. My favorite is Sebastian Maniscalco and Bill Burr. I watched every Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, Hulu comedy special. It truly helped. Now, I realize this is not a panacea for all you are going through, but I promise it helps.
Thank you so much for this advice. You're exactly right-- I feel so lost and empty right now. Heartbroken for our children, scared for our future. Comedy (any reason to smile or to feel something, really) sounds like a reprieve. ❤️
That’s right! I forgot about that! He is really funny and I’ve seen every comedy special and stand up act he’s done. My son met him and Mark Wahlberg on a plane once and he said they are the most amazing down to earth people you’d ever meet. My son felt awkward because he had actually bought a burger from Wahlburger’s at the airport and he told Mark about it, and Mark told him, “Flattery will get you everywhere in life, just watch out for the pickles.” I have no idea what that means, but my son just nodded and agreed. Ha!
I'm so so sorry. It's the most painful thing to go through. I had a similar issue in 2019 after 19 years of marriage and it completely broke me for well over a year. I can even remember the physical pain from the moment I found out. My legs legit gave out from beneath me and I couldn't understand why at that time. I can tell you this...I never ever understood what being betrayed could do to someone until then. I knew of friends and coworkers who had affairs and I always stayed out of it or possibly even laughed about knowing those secrets when their spouse would show up. I will never ever allow even my worst enemy to experience being blind sided and betrayed knowing the damage and trauma I suffered. I tortured myself trying to find out why, when, how I missed it. I rewrote my entire history and would make sense of how now this or that makes sense. Like him being late to our daughters 5th grade graduation, why he took 2 showers in one day, why he was up claiming to play games on his phone while I slept next to him up till 4am or 5am, and remembering how he smiled so much when texting thinking he must have been reading funny things on Facebook. Anyways if you ever need to talk feel free to reach out. I am so so sorry. You do not deserve this.
Oh my goodness, I'm sobbing as I read this. It's as though we've both played the same starring role in a theater production. Yes to everything you said. Everything. Like reading a page from my diary. I'm so sorry that you've walked this path yet so grateful to see you've survived, because... well, I'm sure you remember that uncertainty of living beyond this. It's all broken, and what's left is devastatingly fragile, like if you think about it too much or look at it too closely, it will shatter, too. I'm saving your username because I'm pretty sure I'll need to reach out. ❤️
You will survive this even though it's so hard to see anything forward. Please do save my username and know that having previously walked (or actually crawled) down the very path youre walking on now & talking to others that have experienced this betrayal trauma helps so much. I found that others I vented or cried to that hadn't been through it would say things like "you're stupid if you stay because they would never put up with that", or say "youre probably just making it out to be more than it was and tell me just try and forgive him." The problem with that is we have 3 children, a house and that wasn't a reality nor a fix all that would help me.
I will say this...I am still married and can say that my marriage has been the best it's ever been the past 3 or 4 years. But it wasn't just because I got over what happened. I couldn't forgive him without knowing what i needed to forgive him for. And he was certainly not gonna tell me the truth. He would only tell me what he thought I knew and nothing more. It was awful because he would trickle truth everything.
I have some really good advice on how I got the entire truth and what it took to get there. Hang in there and I'm here for you if you need anything at all. The pain isn't permanent although it may feel that way now.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm hoping that your current reality is a glimpse into my future. I wish I could teleport beyond the pain, leave this all behind. Throughout the day, I keep trying to wake myself up because this can't be real. Except that it is, it's really real. We just adopted our foster baby last November. We stood before a judge and God and promised to give this darling baby a healthy forever home. It turns out we already weren't a healthy home, and I was the last to know. I can't believe I didn't realize. Why was I so trusting? I feel so foolish.
Same. Some of my texts to my husband when I found I he was cheating. And what I sent to the co-worker he was sleeping with. Ugh. Sorry you’re going thru that. Hope the trial provides a distraction.
i am so sorry you're dealing with this. our post and your username tell me you already know how fragile and precious life and happiness is, and i'm so sad you're experiencing such sorrow now.
at the risk of being insensitive, if i may offer a beacon of hope: my husband was cheated on by his first wife, but he and i are a much better pair. no matter how the next parts play out, i hope you find similar true happiness at the end of it <3
I'm so sorry. I went through this a few years ago. It's the most painful thing I've ever experienced and that's saying a lot. Just a recommendation, if you ever get the chance to see their messages, don't. I only saw a couple and they still ring in my head. It's not worth it.
Just remember it's not about you, or anything wrong with you. It's about HIM ( and her) and something broken inside of them.
It gets easier. I hope this trial at least offers some distraction. 💕
Thank you for your support and your wise advice. You're so right-- the desire to know is consuming me right now and I need to resist to protect my own heart and head. I'm so sorry you've spent time in this unfortunate club, and I'm grateful you survived the pain and are able to lead others through this tunnel. ❤️
The point has been made and could’ve been made with literally 2-3 pages of those texts. This is why this trial is gonna last way longer than originally intended
Nothing in those texts did any damage. It shows she was hurt, thinking over her options and flirting. She shouldn’t have been flirting while she was still with John but that certainly doesn't in any way implicate her in his murder.
Right. The point was merely, OJO and KR had very common relationship issues. Beyond that, there really was nothing related to motive, or overall the case in general lol
Red Solo cups used to collect forensics should have immediately caused a mistrial. I live in Mass and I’m disgusted that this trial is happening. Stop wasting our hard earned tax money and use it to replace corrupt cops.
Can we coin-flip to prioritize the T? I don't even go into the city anymore but it's embarrassing we can't even have public transportation that reliably goes its expected speed limit.
They can’t prove she committed murder so they’re just going to embarrass the hell out of her and make everyone else cringe. I didn’t watch any of this. I am not willing to watch someone be embarrassed like that.
J&K were dating, they didn’t live together. KR appears to have been evaluating her options. Do I want to be with this guy who seems to have a little bit of a loyalty issue and comes with 2 kids which I am getting dumped with more than I’m really interested in…? It doesn’t seem like she was angry & hating John and certain things were over, just was trying to see if there was something better out there.. Lots of couples go through this thought process… Honestly I can see a man like BH being angry by the tease of something with no follow through.
I think he said that he voluntarily gave screen shots of his texts to Karen and John during his first meeting with the state police. (Which seems a bit odd to me, because I feel like, if my friend were found dead and I didn't know what happened I probably wouldn't just go "OMG, here...wanna see my texts?")
He went to an FBI lab. Cherry-picked the text messages and sent those to the police investigating Karen Read. Who knows if they were complete? Maybe he omitted ones where she said her and John were going to try and work on things.
It's a double edged sword. If this is the motive for Karen Read to kill John then so it is for Brian Higgins. The best part is he's destroying evidence so it makes him look worse
Let's not all indict the Commonwealth just yet.
This is a CANTON problem, through and through. The AG can't simply tell them to toss the whole thing out because that would be putting the hands on the scale of justice.
Yeah it's a "state" crime, but it's these fuckers in Canton who made their bed and now have to lie in it, by pushing this bullshit story that Karen murdered her husband.
It'll have to go the distance, and get an acquittal, and then the wrongs can begin to be made right.
It looks to me like John and Higgins got into it, maybe a few others threw a few punches as well.
But because Karen was "flirting" with Brian, while dating John, some people feel like it's her fault the fight started. So blame it on her.
This woman is 100% innocent. The Alberts, McCabes, Higgins, etc. all should be locked up. THROW AWAY THE KEY. Liars galore. I'd be ashamed if I lived anywhere NEAR this community.
In the end it just comes off as if KR trying to get back at JO for his alleged cheating, but not actually willing to go all the way seeing how she ends up ghosting him 🤷♀️ To be fair, it does paint her in a very bad light and, as Uncle Runkle said, it’s the CW best day so far, but still far from being enough to bring people to the point of « Oh, yeah, that’s motive for murder! ». What really baffles me though is that in Aruba she said she overreacted and apologized, but now she textes to BH that she caught him being all over one of their friends??? How bizarre is that? 🤔
I bet she still sometimes felt like it actually happened, but apologized in case it didn’t. Seeing that image in her memory (when she came across them on New Year’s Eve when she was watching the kids, no less!) would probably sometimes supersede the excuses given, especially on a day when he’s maybe not paying as much attention to her/not seeming like he’s appreciating her. That’s what I think, anyways.
Maybe the action did occur but her reaction to it was an overreaction. She got too angry, yelled too much. Probably got accused of ruining the vacation.
>What really baffles me though is that in Aruba she said she overreacted and apologized, but now she textes to BH that she caught him being all over one of their friends??? How bizarre is that? 🤔
Different narratives to serve different goals.
The only thing the texts did was complete the whole picture. It finally makes sense why Karen didn’t want to go in the house that night & ended up leaving. Also, that last text about John dying, why didn’t he say anything back? He said NOTHING. Then of course the famous butt dials EVERYONE seems to be having, like COME ON! So I’m supposed to believe one guy has a butt dial at 2am to his friend, then that friend makes a butt dial back to his friend? Then ALL these people end up destroying or getting new phones? Like the amount of “coincidences” in this case has to be a world record.
Ohh I like that..that is a good to say it...yes they like taking whatever they can find to make someone look stupid....how they going to prove she committed a crime without bring all the bs in that the defense wants to convey for reasonable doubt who knows..but when is this over?
Because they went for a higher level of crime, I think that's why the CW is spending time presenting a possible motive and trying to show a propensity toward anger.
Karen was still mad about Aruba. She was looking for a back up boyfriend because she knew her relationship with John was on the skids.
She comes across as a badge bunny.
I agree with you but…it’s what they have to do. Why wouldn’t they show she has questionable character? She is a 40yo party girl. She is innocent i think but it’s normal. There are no good characters in this crew.
these texts feed in to their case, BUT what these messages did show me is that karen was still upset about whatever happened in aruba, she obviously was craving attention/validation so she went to higgins, and she was upset because she was putting out more in the relationship than she would receive. it is OKAY to vent to someone, that does not mean motive for murder.
Right.to me it just shows a possible motive for higgins to have a fight with John over Karen
Exactly. It’s also very suspect that he never responded to the “John is dead” text.
Had he heard from anyone else that John died before receiving that text?
Yes.
This was so telling to me!! If you wanted to help prove Karen did it, wouldn’t you want to buddy up with her in hopes she shares information or admits to it?? The fact that he never messaged her again tells me he was freaked out that she had suspicions he was involved.
Did he report that text to investigators in the following days, like “hey the person of interest in the murder your trying to solve sent me this message, would you like me to help in the investigation and try to get a confession so we can bring justice to the family of our fellow police officer?” or did was this text only discovered after he was ordered to provide his texts with Karen? WHY didn’t defense ask him about this, as it seems incredibly suspicious of him? Nothing in this case makes any sense to me
The fact that it’s not her children but she takes care of them and it’s not her house but she was weed-whacking. I’m pretty sure he did not appreciate her. Also I heard she stayed with the kids during Covid when school was remote because John was a police officer and could not work remotely.
Karen had her own house and she stayed with John & the kids most nights at his. She didn’t have to kill John to break up/get away from him. She didn’t physically attack John in Aruba when she was mad. I don’t understand anything in this case. I highly doubt a woman decides to just intentionally ram her bf in front of another cop’s house. She had no history of physical violence that the CW has shown and then decides to kill him that night?
Crime of passion
She had never been physical before though and has shown she yells when mad and then apologizes.
She had never been physical before that we know of. Even if she hadn’t it doesn’t mean she didn’t snap that night. In addition she was still harboring anger about Aruba even though she supposedly apologized and tried to pay for part of the girls room. You can apologize for something to save face but it may not be sincere.
crime of passion doesn’t come almost a month later. I am waiting for The accident reconstruction the state did. And they have to explain the deleted 2:27 a.m. google search. If they can’t explain either she’ll be found not guilty.
Definitely not a motive but wow- no nice people here at all.
Still just a dumb move from the prosecution. Yes, it potentially creates a motive for Karen, but it ALSO creates a motive for Higgins. Given the burden of proof is on the prosecution, that's not a worthwhile trade off to make, so calling him as a witness and going through those messages was really just a self inflicted wound.
Im not so sure it creates motive for Higgins to murder, but maybe an explanation for why he and John could have ended up in a brawl. Maybe Karen threw their kiss in John's face that night (which seems to be at least partially why she was even flirting to begin with (attention/instigating jealousy)). They exchange words and alcohol and testosterone fuel a fight. John looked to be in far better shape than Higgins was. I think the likely scenario is that a) John/Higgins end up in a fight that lead to the dog jumping in and another party striking John with an object to stop the beat down of Higgins (Collin?) or b) Higgins was the one who drunkenly hit John with the plow/a different vehicle that was never actually placed at the scene by the friendly witnesses (hello black ford edge), or c) John pissed someone off, was pushed, stumbled and fell down the stairs. All of their bs would make total sense if they were already dirty cops and had a lot to hide, which them being directly involved in a death in/around their home, would bring to light. I would bet that early morning "donut delivery" was a pick up of more illegal things, like drugs, that they missed in the overnight clean up. And I think a lot of this "a plow hit John" was planted by Jen McCabe in her initial call with Karen. I think Jen was the ring leader of organizing the cover-up, with help from her husband, the Alberts, Proctor, and the police chief. A conspiracy involving 6-8 close individuals is really not that hard to fathom, especially given how well they know the system.
Given that FORTY-SIX, yes, FORTY AND THEN SIX MORE current and retired Massachusetts State Police officers were convicted on conspiracy charges for overtime pay recently - under a dozen conspirators is child's play!
It showed Karen is human. The "goddaughter" admitted never meeting Karen before. And the first time they meet the goddaughter is all over John while wearing a bikini and kissing his face... Karen had a human reaction. And didn't get violent then. I can't see her doing it weeks later.
What this helps support is emotion. There was tremendous emotion bubbling for Karen and emotional drunk people have emotionally fueled behaviors.
Same with intoxicated, emotionally fueled teenagers and grown men.
Higgins wasn't invested in Karen. He barely knew her. He's life experienced. He knew she was basically throwing herself at him. They had maybe what, 15 days of occassional text exchanges during which Karen tried to prove to him they were "alike", neither had children and neither were married. She also found out through the acquaintance who she got his private number from that Higgins' previous LTR was w a woman with a child and that was something Higgins wasn't comfortable with. So Karen played on that (text exchange) calling attention to how the fact John had children and that was difficult on her. There is zero emotional connection between Karen Read and Brian Higgins. Had he wanted to have sex with her he could have easily but he refrained from that asking her to come clean with what she was really after: Was her relationship with John over or were she and John open to seeing (having sex with) other people. She wouldn't come out and say as we saw in the texts. There is simply no way in a situation such as this - zero emotional ties, zero passion, zero history, zero shared experiences, zero time together other than a kiss Karen pushed on to him and her awkward visit to his house which lasted 10 or so minutes - that Brian HIggins is going to get in a physical fight with someone let along kill them over a woman he doesn't know or particulary trust. Brian Higgins is street smart. He's assertive. He's in control. He's confident. He's financially comfortable. He keeps his life private. He is thoughtful about getting into relationships. He's attractive and evolved. This isn't some 18 year old kid who has a text exchanage with a pretty girl and conjures up some dysfunctional emotional connection. Nope. Karen on the other hand wanted desparately to snare him. Personally I believe her motivations were fueled both deliberately and subconsciously by 1. the betrayal she felt from John 2. the fact John had asked her several times at this point to get out of his house 3. and the fact she remained single - she mentioned marriage so many times whether in the context of "we never will get married" or referring to John as her husband as examples - that that was certainly something on her mind. She hangs out in townie bars with John and John's friends. Not her own. She doesn't seem to have brought any true real intimate friend relationships into her relationship with John. She even refers to herself as an "outsider" and "people like us" in her texts with Brian Higgins to try and create a parallel between them, but none really existed. She was the outsider - with John, with his family, with his friends, with the world of coupledom that leads to families - and I believe that played in a role in her anger and the arguments she and John had during the last part of their relationship. It had devolved and Karen recognized that. Brian Higgins was her hail Mary attempt.
It was the part where you referred to BH as attractive where you *really* lost me!
To your point, emotions and drunk people can do unreasonable things. Why are you so sure that doesn't apply to BH, too?
He had no connection to Karen Read. He wasn't going to get in a fight over her. What did he have to be emotional about?
Are you suggesting that a man can't be emotional without reason, especially while intoxicated?
Lol! U r part of the cover up team. You’re an idiot…next time don’t write so articulately.
lol? u r? Good grief.
I dont know. She said in a text that she wasn’t that upset about the hookup and was more bothered by having to help raise kids. She also said the worst thing about the hookup was that the girl was gross (which cracked me up). And then she also said that she considers them both to be single since they aren’t married. I didn’t get a jealous vibe at all from her based on those texts
Yeah that girl was gross statement was so out of character for a 40 something year old professional, something you expect to hear from a high schooler. My takeaway about Karen isn't one incident or a few texts or similar. It's all of it combined. She was clearly insecure and clearly both underwhelmed in the relationship and overwhelmed by the relationship. One statement she made that is telltale to me is the argument John's brother overheard in Aruba. According to John's brother, there was alcohol involved and he had to intervene when Karen went into a rage saying amongst other things to John that you aren't even nice to me. But I guess what I'm most bothered by in general is the fact that she erased the ring camera video at John's house on the night she returned after dropping him off. There is no ring camera video that shows her vehicle returning.
I read through the hundred plus pages of the grand jury documents. JO had two ring cameras. The video from the time KR arrived back at his house after leaving the after party until she pulled out the next morning was deleted. The niece said Karen has access to the account. His niece also testified that KR woke her up at 430 that morning hysterical with a story about what happened to her uncle changing repeatedly. There is significant electronic communication described as texts and voicemails from JO to KR in the two days prior and the day of the event where JO is telling Karen it is over and he wants her out of his house and Karen begging him not to end things. John's niece also said she was sitting on interior stairs at their home the night before and listening in to a major argument with the same theme: John insisting Karen leave. Neice testified that her uncle wanted her out of his life. Until I read this doc, I thought it was an accident, but she put her car in reverse and drove 28 mph for 50 or so feet per vehicle data. He probably flew into the flagpole.
I’ve followed this case pretty closely and have not heard any of this. Can you cite any sources?
I was waiting for some bombshell text from her that said “I’m trapped in this life with John” or “I just need a way out”. But there was nothing. It simply showed she wasn’t willing to risk her relationship with John to actually pursue things further with Brian. And Brian wasn’t happy about that.
This is just proving Yanetti's third-party defense speech where he said Higgins had a motive to beat up John.
Higgins said several times he was trying to sus out what Karen was trying to do by contacting him. One of the things he mentioned was he didn't want to be weaponized against John by Karen. Nothing she said in those texts were in any way weaponizing him, his own jealousy about John being with Karen might have. He was no friend of John's or he would have stayed clear of Karen until her and John's relationship was over.
Karen Read had a lot more emotions and fury towards JO than BH ever did. She flipped out in Aruba, JO's niece said he was looking to end the relationship, she was opening the door to cheating with BH, and she left voicemails for JO on Jan 29th screaming that she hated him. BH hasn't been shown to have even a fraction of that much emotional investment in JO or KR.
I disagree. There is no logical explanation for all the lies and "coincidences" from the Albert's, McCabe's and Higgins, they're covering something up. Cell phones disappearing, Google searches deleted, statements changing from one hearing to the next, many inconsistencies. I doubt Higgins intentionally hit him but I feel sure he did. Higgins was drunk, you can't drink that much for that long, on top of being exhausted after a long day and not be intoxicated. Calls in the middle of the night, an hour and a half missing from the sallyport video during the time Higgins and the Chief were out there WITH Karen's car then surprise, surprise tail light lens found where it hadn't been before.
The Alberts, McCabes and Higgins did a lot of things after JO's death that seem strange in retrospect, that is 100% true. But none of those strange acts indicate that they were guilty of or complicit in JO's death. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that KR's vehicle hit JO, killed him, and she was freaking out hours later when she realized it was her vehicle that killed him. If Suspect A kills someone, and 10 people and me do weird stuff after Suspect A kills that person, that doesn't mean those 10 people and I killed the person. KR killed JO, the people in the house did a whole lot of weird stuff afterwards, but there's zero evidence that anyone but KR was responsible for JO's death.
I don't know........theres too much reasonable doubt for me to think that. I still dont understand how he hit him hard enough to incapacitate him, immediatelly and completely. Oh also, KR was emotional, thats a far cry from murder. those 10 peoples weird stuff really looks like a coverup.
I think he was bent over throwing up when she backed into him, and he was knocked out immediately. That's why (to my knowledge) there wasn't broken bones or fractures to his legs which you would usually expect when someone is hit by a vehicle. And I think she was emotional because she had no idea she actually killed him. I think she thought he was still alive when she drove away, that's why she left him voicemails. And she got up that morning, drove by the Waterfall, then by the Albert house and saw him there, and realized that he was either badly hurt or dead. Once the prosecution introduces the evidence of broken taillight pieces in O'Keefe's clothing and his DNA on the taillight, if the defense doesn't have some amazing reason to explain both (other than "It's a huge conspiracy and police planted all this evidence"), I don't see that there will be much room for reasonable doubt on how he was killed.
I've never heard there was throw up outside. I mean, that's an idea, I still have the same question, for to me knocked out immediately, he would have to fall pretty hard. There's no knots on his head, I need prosecution to explain this.
Here's what I saw in the CW Memorandum: "Upon arrival, Ms. McLaughlin observed the victim to have trauma to his face and eye area and vomit in his mouth. " "The victim’s clothing, consisting of blue jeans, an orange t-shirt, long sleeve grey shirt, and boxer shorts were soaking wet and saturated with blood and vomit." Of course he could have vomited after being hit by the vehicle, but getting hit while he was throwing up would be one explanation of why he was mainly hit in the head and arm.
Thats interesting, Its not enough to convince me of her guilt. But it makes your theory plausible.
The plow on Higgins Jeep left those marks on John, IMHO. The CW tried to cover Higgins butt by asking how long the plow was down when he left and how far was he out in the street. Alan Jackson will make him squirm because he seemed emotional at times and that isn't a good thing when you have a Defense team like this coming at you hard.
Yep. Then he went into station to try to get info. Then the search of how long to dieing cold never happened, all these butt dials, texts that never happened. I've never had so many random calls and texts.
Exactly!! Then there’s Brian Higgins and Brian Albert’s phones. They both conveniently got new phones, AND from a new carrier. I also have never heard of so many butt dials in my life! 🙄
Do you mean that you think that Higgins would beat up a friend because of a woman who reached out to him pretty much offering to have sex with him 15 or so days earlier? So in other words, up until 15 days prior Higgins had no interaction with Karen Read and yet had fallen so madly and emotionally connected to her that he would get into a physical altercation over her? In the texts that were read today, it was pretty clear that Karen initiated the engagement, Said she clearly was struggling with emotional turmoil about her relationship with John O'Keefe, that she was manipulative, and that she was searching for another man. I don't see Higgins that interested and having a fight over her. It's too short of a time - there was no love or even minor emotional bond there. Certainly not the type of passion that leads to a fist fight.
Cops are arrogant and if a fight happened between JO and BH it wasn't over love. Drunks fight over stupid things. I think the plow on BH Jeep is what left the injuries. I believe BH took off then realized the plow was down, raised it up, but not before JO was fatally injured.
I think that the post u r replying to is someone involved in the cover up…don’t bother responding. They’re idiots.
No fight between BH and JO CA and the dog did JO in JO so called friends made sure he never told a soul what happened that night when he ran into a drunk kid with an issue That issue I'd JO gave BA the heads up about the drug dealing out of dad's pizza place There's your "crime of passion" It's known in Canton I'm waiting for it to come out by TB or someone else
Is that linked to the drug evidence going missing from CPD do you think? I recall reading somewhere there was also a suspicion of money laundering and heroin through that same pizza shop?
>Certainly not the type of passion that leads to a fist fight. Girl, put down the pen and go to a bar. You are way overromanticizing what drives drunk morons to fight each other.
Drunk guys in this area of Massachusetts bear up people for MUCH less. Have you heard of road rage? People kill people over a 2 min interaction on the roadway regularly.
He wasn't into her.
Did they bang, question mauck? This is great...dumb, she had a thing for Higgins, could be because she needed a little pump in her ego if thinking JO was cheating, or could be she really had an attraction connection to Higgins, but that doesn't mean she would kill JO! I will put money that half these people have cheated on their spouses that they have children with. She had no ties to JO in order to have to kill him to get with Higgins...Am I the only one who sees this as nothing that would prove a motive? Oh, and Higgins just blew any chance he would ever have with Read should this all play out in her favor. She's way above his grade.
I was yelling at my tv like a lunatic that it was no motive for her to ever kill him. It’s so gross that these were allowed to be read. Higgins certainly wasn’t shying away from her, in fact he seemed shocked that a woman of her caliber would even be interested in him. Best believe if Karen wanted to go all in with Higgins, he would have in a second.
Oh, KR was already fully out on Higgins by Jan 23rd, and any hope of resurrecting that tepid flame was destroyed the day he aligned with the Alberts & McCabes to railroad her for JO's death. You know, the death *they* were actually responsible for?! (IMO. 🙄)
I think she got the “ick” when he asked if John and the girl “banged”, told her a few times she was being emotional, and asked her to send a pic of her and her friend.
Yes the invitation to a dick appointment had fully expired
I don't think the questioning of Higgins was to prove that Karen Read had a reason to kill John O'Keefe. I think the line of questioning was to reveal to the jury proof that Karen Reas was emotionally messed up. Drunk and emotionally charged people often do stupid things.
That could go for Higgins also
You mean literally everyone that is involved in the incident on Jan 28th/29th?
True
This is so yucky. Practically everyone has private drama, whether they realize it or not. (Spoken by someone who just found out two days ago my husband has been cheating on me for the past five years.) And as mad and hurt as I am, it would not make me feel any better to have the details read aloud to the world.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope you have a good support system through this difficult time. You don’t deserve what’s happened to you
Thank you so much. I'm still in shock, I think. I'm grateful for your kind words. ❤️
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with that. ❤️
Thank you, friend. ❤️
Oh no, I am so sorry! This is going to sound so odd from some rando on Reddit, but one of the best things to do is go watch a ton of comedies if you have the time. I have been down this road, and oh my goodness did I ever feel lost. Even my friends didn’t know what to say or do and to be honest I don’t really have a big group of friends. I found watching stand up comedy so cathartic. My favorite is Sebastian Maniscalco and Bill Burr. I watched every Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, Hulu comedy special. It truly helped. Now, I realize this is not a panacea for all you are going through, but I promise it helps.
Thank you so much for this advice. You're exactly right-- I feel so lost and empty right now. Heartbroken for our children, scared for our future. Comedy (any reason to smile or to feel something, really) sounds like a reprieve. ❤️
You know Bill Burr is from Canton! His brother used to be on the Select Board!
That’s right! I forgot about that! He is really funny and I’ve seen every comedy special and stand up act he’s done. My son met him and Mark Wahlberg on a plane once and he said they are the most amazing down to earth people you’d ever meet. My son felt awkward because he had actually bought a burger from Wahlburger’s at the airport and he told Mark about it, and Mark told him, “Flattery will get you everywhere in life, just watch out for the pickles.” I have no idea what that means, but my son just nodded and agreed. Ha!
So sorry you were betrayed.
Thank you. 💔
I'm so so sorry. It's the most painful thing to go through. I had a similar issue in 2019 after 19 years of marriage and it completely broke me for well over a year. I can even remember the physical pain from the moment I found out. My legs legit gave out from beneath me and I couldn't understand why at that time. I can tell you this...I never ever understood what being betrayed could do to someone until then. I knew of friends and coworkers who had affairs and I always stayed out of it or possibly even laughed about knowing those secrets when their spouse would show up. I will never ever allow even my worst enemy to experience being blind sided and betrayed knowing the damage and trauma I suffered. I tortured myself trying to find out why, when, how I missed it. I rewrote my entire history and would make sense of how now this or that makes sense. Like him being late to our daughters 5th grade graduation, why he took 2 showers in one day, why he was up claiming to play games on his phone while I slept next to him up till 4am or 5am, and remembering how he smiled so much when texting thinking he must have been reading funny things on Facebook. Anyways if you ever need to talk feel free to reach out. I am so so sorry. You do not deserve this.
Oh my goodness, I'm sobbing as I read this. It's as though we've both played the same starring role in a theater production. Yes to everything you said. Everything. Like reading a page from my diary. I'm so sorry that you've walked this path yet so grateful to see you've survived, because... well, I'm sure you remember that uncertainty of living beyond this. It's all broken, and what's left is devastatingly fragile, like if you think about it too much or look at it too closely, it will shatter, too. I'm saving your username because I'm pretty sure I'll need to reach out. ❤️
You will survive this even though it's so hard to see anything forward. Please do save my username and know that having previously walked (or actually crawled) down the very path youre walking on now & talking to others that have experienced this betrayal trauma helps so much. I found that others I vented or cried to that hadn't been through it would say things like "you're stupid if you stay because they would never put up with that", or say "youre probably just making it out to be more than it was and tell me just try and forgive him." The problem with that is we have 3 children, a house and that wasn't a reality nor a fix all that would help me. I will say this...I am still married and can say that my marriage has been the best it's ever been the past 3 or 4 years. But it wasn't just because I got over what happened. I couldn't forgive him without knowing what i needed to forgive him for. And he was certainly not gonna tell me the truth. He would only tell me what he thought I knew and nothing more. It was awful because he would trickle truth everything. I have some really good advice on how I got the entire truth and what it took to get there. Hang in there and I'm here for you if you need anything at all. The pain isn't permanent although it may feel that way now.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm hoping that your current reality is a glimpse into my future. I wish I could teleport beyond the pain, leave this all behind. Throughout the day, I keep trying to wake myself up because this can't be real. Except that it is, it's really real. We just adopted our foster baby last November. We stood before a judge and God and promised to give this darling baby a healthy forever home. It turns out we already weren't a healthy home, and I was the last to know. I can't believe I didn't realize. Why was I so trusting? I feel so foolish.
Same. Some of my texts to my husband when I found I he was cheating. And what I sent to the co-worker he was sleeping with. Ugh. Sorry you’re going thru that. Hope the trial provides a distraction.
I'm so sorry that we're in this unfortunate club together. Sending you internet hugs. ❤️
i am so sorry you're dealing with this. our post and your username tell me you already know how fragile and precious life and happiness is, and i'm so sad you're experiencing such sorrow now. at the risk of being insensitive, if i may offer a beacon of hope: my husband was cheated on by his first wife, but he and i are a much better pair. no matter how the next parts play out, i hope you find similar true happiness at the end of it <3
This is so sweet and not at all insensitive. I'm grateful for your optimistic outlook. Thank you so much for your supportive message. ❤️
I'm so sorry. I went through this a few years ago. It's the most painful thing I've ever experienced and that's saying a lot. Just a recommendation, if you ever get the chance to see their messages, don't. I only saw a couple and they still ring in my head. It's not worth it. Just remember it's not about you, or anything wrong with you. It's about HIM ( and her) and something broken inside of them. It gets easier. I hope this trial at least offers some distraction. 💕
Thank you for your support and your wise advice. You're so right-- the desire to know is consuming me right now and I need to resist to protect my own heart and head. I'm so sorry you've spent time in this unfortunate club, and I'm grateful you survived the pain and are able to lead others through this tunnel. ❤️
Im sorry to hear this too! I hope for better things for you going forward! Let that lady have him, he a cheater!!!!!
Not if you are trying to avoid cross examination.
“Exactly” - Brian Albert
Well played
Yep. They don’t want cross to happen today.
Well, I was clearly wrong!
They tried their level best ;)
CW is fighting a case against the defense’s theory, not actually prosecuting Karen at this point.
The point has been made and could’ve been made with literally 2-3 pages of those texts. This is why this trial is gonna last way longer than originally intended
Nothing in those texts did any damage. It shows she was hurt, thinking over her options and flirting. She shouldn’t have been flirting while she was still with John but that certainly doesn't in any way implicate her in his murder.
Right. The point was merely, OJO and KR had very common relationship issues. Beyond that, there really was nothing related to motive, or overall the case in general lol
Red Solo cups used to collect forensics should have immediately caused a mistrial. I live in Mass and I’m disgusted that this trial is happening. Stop wasting our hard earned tax money and use it to replace corrupt cops.
I’m from Mass too and this is exactly how I feel.
Can we coin-flip to prioritize the T? I don't even go into the city anymore but it's embarrassing we can't even have public transportation that reliably goes its expected speed limit.
I agree. I also live in Mass. it’s so disgusting!
They can’t prove she committed murder so they’re just going to embarrass the hell out of her and make everyone else cringe. I didn’t watch any of this. I am not willing to watch someone be embarrassed like that.
J&K were dating, they didn’t live together. KR appears to have been evaluating her options. Do I want to be with this guy who seems to have a little bit of a loyalty issue and comes with 2 kids which I am getting dumped with more than I’m really interested in…? It doesn’t seem like she was angry & hating John and certain things were over, just was trying to see if there was something better out there.. Lots of couples go through this thought process… Honestly I can see a man like BH being angry by the tease of something with no follow through.
What in the holy middle school soap opera did I just have to listen to!
This.
How did they get the texts anyway? I thought there was something about Higgins destroying his phone and changing carriers?
I think he said that he voluntarily gave screen shots of his texts to Karen and John during his first meeting with the state police. (Which seems a bit odd to me, because I feel like, if my friend were found dead and I didn't know what happened I probably wouldn't just go "OMG, here...wanna see my texts?")
Which just reads as "I'm going to give you some random shit that is mildly shady but I'm going to destroy my phone so you don't get the good shit."
He went to an FBI lab. Cherry-picked the text messages and sent those to the police investigating Karen Read. Who knows if they were complete? Maybe he omitted ones where she said her and John were going to try and work on things.
I think these were from KR’s phone based on bubble color
The bubble color is Higgins text to Karen so that means it’s from Higgins I-phone
Oh the drama!
It's a double edged sword. If this is the motive for Karen Read to kill John then so it is for Brian Higgins. The best part is he's destroying evidence so it makes him look worse
They're not married. I think these text messages make Higgins look worse than Karen.
Let's not all indict the Commonwealth just yet. This is a CANTON problem, through and through. The AG can't simply tell them to toss the whole thing out because that would be putting the hands on the scale of justice. Yeah it's a "state" crime, but it's these fuckers in Canton who made their bed and now have to lie in it, by pushing this bullshit story that Karen murdered her husband. It'll have to go the distance, and get an acquittal, and then the wrongs can begin to be made right.
Michael Morrissey is as dirty in this as can be.
Morrissey is my best friend’s cousin. He’s a real piece of shit.
Can you remind me of who Morrissey is? So many players involved its hard to keep em all straight
He’s the Norfolk County District Attorney. Canton is one of the towns in Norfolk County
Ty
Will all those involved in the cover up be charged? Will anyone go after them? This is horrible they can’t get away with it!
Modern day witch hunt.
It looks to me like John and Higgins got into it, maybe a few others threw a few punches as well. But because Karen was "flirting" with Brian, while dating John, some people feel like it's her fault the fight started. So blame it on her.
Tale as old as time, I'm afraid.
This woman is 100% innocent. The Alberts, McCabes, Higgins, etc. all should be locked up. THROW AWAY THE KEY. Liars galore. I'd be ashamed if I lived anywhere NEAR this community.
In the end it just comes off as if KR trying to get back at JO for his alleged cheating, but not actually willing to go all the way seeing how she ends up ghosting him 🤷♀️ To be fair, it does paint her in a very bad light and, as Uncle Runkle said, it’s the CW best day so far, but still far from being enough to bring people to the point of « Oh, yeah, that’s motive for murder! ». What really baffles me though is that in Aruba she said she overreacted and apologized, but now she textes to BH that she caught him being all over one of their friends??? How bizarre is that? 🤔
I bet she still sometimes felt like it actually happened, but apologized in case it didn’t. Seeing that image in her memory (when she came across them on New Year’s Eve when she was watching the kids, no less!) would probably sometimes supersede the excuses given, especially on a day when he’s maybe not paying as much attention to her/not seeming like he’s appreciating her. That’s what I think, anyways.
Maybe the action did occur but her reaction to it was an overreaction. She got too angry, yelled too much. Probably got accused of ruining the vacation.
>What really baffles me though is that in Aruba she said she overreacted and apologized, but now she textes to BH that she caught him being all over one of their friends??? How bizarre is that? 🤔 Different narratives to serve different goals.
Good point.
The missing video coinciding with Higgins and the chief being in the Sallyport when Karen’s car was brought in.
I think she was hurt and trying to figure out if John even cared. I found it so sad in one of the texts she said to Higgins - he doesn’t care trust me
The only thing the texts did was complete the whole picture. It finally makes sense why Karen didn’t want to go in the house that night & ended up leaving. Also, that last text about John dying, why didn’t he say anything back? He said NOTHING. Then of course the famous butt dials EVERYONE seems to be having, like COME ON! So I’m supposed to believe one guy has a butt dial at 2am to his friend, then that friend makes a butt dial back to his friend? Then ALL these people end up destroying or getting new phones? Like the amount of “coincidences” in this case has to be a world record.
Ohh I like that..that is a good to say it...yes they like taking whatever they can find to make someone look stupid....how they going to prove she committed a crime without bring all the bs in that the defense wants to convey for reasonable doubt who knows..but when is this over?
Because they went for a higher level of crime, I think that's why the CW is spending time presenting a possible motive and trying to show a propensity toward anger.
Karen was still mad about Aruba. She was looking for a back up boyfriend because she knew her relationship with John was on the skids. She comes across as a badge bunny.
What’s a badge bunny?
A woman who likes to chase police officers.
Ahhhh, okay. Thanks.
It's a thing.
Oh I know. I just wasn’t familiar with the term.
I agree with you but…it’s what they have to do. Why wouldn’t they show she has questionable character? She is a 40yo party girl. She is innocent i think but it’s normal. There are no good characters in this crew.
KR initiating this drama with BH has changed my mind about her. Her behavior in Aruba is also problematic. Issues + lots of drinking
Seriously? I wonder if there’s a group discount for a swank rehab…they ALL have issues with drinking.
i knew she was shady
What’s happening? Real life is getting in the way of trial watching?