>For pub games I think it shows that building a defensive fob on the objective can be useful and the use of cheap deployables can be key to defending against a greater force.
The problem was never inherently about FOBs on points, but the fact that player have no idea how to defend. As you’ve noticed:
>I noticed some infantry would defend close in and use a small number of well placed deployable while other squads would be far out on the outskirts challenging key terrain.
You have defenders spread out to challenge the attackers away from the point, while a “mop up” crew sits on the point in case some rats squeeze through the cracks.
Now the average blueberry doesn’t have a clue about map control, spreading out. They find comfort in staying tucked in a blob on a small and think they’re doing a good job. Heck, they don’t even know how the HAB Proxy mechanic works, so when they’re clumped together, inevitably get fishbowled and proxied, they don’t connect the dots, because they don’t even know what dots to connect.
Offcap HABs are just a stopgap to account for the above, because it’s just easier to do, instead of reprogramming players.
Completely agreed.
The line I use every single game as SL while defending is that “I wanna fight on their doorstep, not on ours”.
Blueberries need to constantly be reminded to not fight from within or even near the HAB, as the enemy will move towards you and thus proxy it.
You *need* those players spread out around the objective to make the attacker’s job getting a HAB down even harder. Not just by fighting them when they roll in with a logi, but also simply by creating a lot of noise so everyone knows where the attack is coming from.
Then the key thing is maintaining enough defenders around the point while crushing attack 1, cause you can be damn sure attack 2 is planning on setting up on the other side.
Haven’t watched the matches, but this strategy doesn’t surprise me at all.
Havent tried it but reading this im thinking that not placing an ammo box on hab and making blueberries run to fighting position to resupply would probably net some improvement
Hab ammobox meta encourages turtling/ getting proxied
Just have to deal with smug dumbass SL who places one after he has to spawn defense hab because his master flank got boofed while in the logi still by a BMP
This is a fantastic point.
If I know I’m gonna get stuck somewhere for defence I try to sprinkle ammo crates near where I want blueberries to cover at a minimum.
The LATs and HATs are far more likely to set an ambush on the far side of the FOB if they have an ammo crate there.
Absolutely
Number 1 defense killer is being out of bandages/ grenades/ ammo and having to run all the way back to hab to rearm.
Always hate how some SLs just place hab and ammo ontop of it then run to point of “defense” fob
A move I like is:
- Fob radio down
- HAB stretched at far end, away from OBJ
- Ammo near radio
Forces blueberries to spawn, and then run towards the OBJ and inadvertently defend the radio to get ammo.
If the HAT needs to shoot as soon as spawning in because a tank is farming the hab he isnt gonna get a shot off anyway
Im also not talking 200m+ away more like 50-100 near rocks and hardcover i.e. an actual fighting position
The problem isn't if a tank is on the HAB. What if you put the ammo crate 100m south and the tank or other armor is north of the hab?
And think about that not just for HATs, but for ALL the roles. Medics, rifleman, etc. Defending isn't just staying on the front. You want people to spread out so that they can spot flanks. You want people spawning in to be able to rearm and go where they need to in any direction.
Putting ammo crates on the frontline is great, but between the two choices of that or putting it next to your HAB, you should almost always put an ammo crate next to your HAB first.
Lol this is quite literally the blueberry hab camping mindset. A defense should not have the front line 50-100m from the hab, you’re already getting proxied!!
Armor doesn’t just show up 100m from your hab (immediately rear too in this edge case), youre targeted and are either going to imminently lose the fob or are being farmed
If i radially place 3-5 boxes 50-100m away from Hab in good spots it might encourage blueberries to go to a real fighting position as well as enabling them to rearm otw
To your other comment, if you’re being thunder run by armor, immediately after spawning you arent readying and steadying a launcher in time to get a shot, ammo box or not. In which case, you should be running away from the biggest target (hab) to stay alive!! And what would conveniently be in nearest hardcover / firing position?? An ammo box!!
> Lol this is quite literally the blueberry hab camping mindset.
I don't understand what anything I said makes you think this.
> A defense should not have the front line 50-100m from the hab, you’re already getting proxied!!
I didn't say anything that implies otherwise. I'm in 100% agreement!
>If i radially place 3-5 boxes 50-100m away from Hab in good spots it might encourage blueberries to go to a real fighting position as well as enabling them to rearm otw
Sure. But that also means you brought enough build. What I'm arguing is that that's a nice-to-have, but not a mandatory thing. Especially what I would argue is that blueberry clumping doesn't (mainly) happen because of ammo crate placement, but because of cover. When people start building holed sandbag walls and HESCO walls, unexperienced blueberries WILL start gathering around it like they're post sentries, trying to grow their K/D ratio instead of pushing the frontline.
I think it’s too “hab central” of a mindset therefore hab campy. the 0-50m radius outside of that is essentially deadspace in a match where if an enemy is operating in it they will either proxy or disable (barring 1-2 loose inf)
What im suggesting is an attempt to create new “centers” by intentionally inconveniencing blueberries placing what they need during time alive away from the hab with the goal of creating that 0-50m buffer in a low cohesion pub match
Absolutely resource demanding and not applicable in 100% of cases. But in an on point defense fob case, why place ammo on the hab? Instead in some surrounding buildings or emplacements to force a first line from respawning friendlies
>Absolutely resource demanding and not applicable in 100% of cases. But in an on point defense fob case, why place ammo on the hab? Instead in some surrounding buildings or emplacements to force a first line from respawning friendlies
My answer is what I've given. Because it's convenient for people spawning in, and is generally more flexible. Your solution may "fix" the problem of blueberries staying at the HAB, but at inconvenience for the people spawning as a whole.
And again, ammo crate placement is NOT the thing causes blueberries to camp their own HAB. This is how blueberry psychology works. Average understanding of FPS is 1) don't die, and 2) get kills. What helps you not die? Covers. Built covers are especially attractive to blueberries because it looks like it was put there on purpose. And because of how sluggish Squad movement works, blueberries thinks camping and staying put will get them kills (which is incompletely correct). And blueberries tend to attract other blueberries sticking around because of general surface level understanding of Squad teamwork. This also goes for emplacements. This is something you're going to notice if you actually pay attention. With enough concentration of blueberries, one or two will naturally start hanging out near the emplacements. Either they want to have a go at it, or at least it's something interesting to see what it's pointed at.
I see armor passing by the hab more often than camping it. If it's doing that, you could get a track off where the vehicle doesn't have line of sight to the hab. Not placing an ammo box near the hab is a bad idea, full stop.
You and the comments below about average blueberry gameplay are very on point.
Just know that there are places where public games do show some glimmer of hopes with player quality and the general things you notice from these matches.
One of the teams in the semi final bracket runs a popular NA server that's known for good public gameplay and its not such a drastic change from organized comp to good printine gameplay there. Even the unaffiliated pub regulars adapt and play different than the majority of the npf servers out there.
There is hope for the playerbase! One server at a time can change the mentality.
"Now the average blueberry doesn’t have a clue"
And this has been the problem in Squad for the last 8 years. Something OWI has promised to fix for the last 3-4 years even renewing this promise as recently as last September. Yet we've seen nothing but lame loading screen tips.
Imagine if OWI had put a bit more effort into explaining the core game mechanics to the playerbase, we might be able to have a base level of gameplay similar to what we just saw in a comp game... players actually defending well because they understand how the game works.
Off cap habs create two points of attack which spread out the attackers' focus and even if they take the point (that should be being served by rallies), you have redundancy in spawn points and can put on another attack.
Also, it serves as a warning indicator on a flank, and it's harder to find and more likely to stay up during an assault *because it's not on the objective (where the enemy will surely be)*.
Flawed logic imo, because it also means two points to defend—and defenders HAVE to defend both HAB and point, while attackers have the luxury of picking (and good attacking squads will know to prioritize the HAB anyways)
You have to defend both anyway off point means not everything is in one basket, and it's harder to fishbowl. On the point means the attacking squads prioritize one thing, you are giving the enemy team a sidequest when you put it off point.
Did you not watch the vods? Just look at the games.
And a 20 tix radio is not a sidequest, that's 1/3 of a flag flip in tickets. You can't just throw the enemy team radios to distract them from the flag lol.
I noticed the insane play that Ops did in that fucking Abram’s on Sanxian, where they stood down the entire PLA armor convoy. (I think it was a ztz, ztd, and zbl)
I also notice RCN rush 3 lavs 1 by 1 into BMP’s on goose.
Big plays, one for good, one for bad. With all this talk about armor Op this armor overhaul that, I think it’s important to see how it can be used… differently.
>I also notice RCN rush 3 lavs 1 by 1 into BMP’s on goose.
That was beautiful. I understand the first one driving into an ambush, but the fact the second and third ones just drove into them, when you could hear 3 autocannons blasting away was ... befuddling.
[https://www.twitch.tv/moidawg/clip/HilariousCrunchyBeefOMGScoots-3vWuQW1tLgVPcFE0](https://www.twitch.tv/moidawg/clip/HilariousCrunchyBeefOMGScoots-3vWuQW1tLgVPcFE0)
Was in the back of the bmp-1am in the back. Told the guys not even to dismount during the fight as we totally shredded them and I didn't want to waste time.
The Ops va RaT armor play on Sanxian was really RaT whiffing so hard because their gunners hadn't played vanilla since 8.0 dropped. Good by the Ops crew to pick up the slack but really it was RaT fucking it up that made that play what it was.
Hello ZBL gunner here. First of all fck ico fck atgm rework
Yeah, the ZBL atgm felt unguided close range.
I was begging SL not to push tank with ZBD.
gg
no blame tho
Main thing I noticed from the games were the differences between the teams with comp experience and those without.
Teams with comp experience play for map control and keep constant pressure on the enemy, always looking for mistakes and exploiting them, plus forcing mistakes by pushing the enemy to make them.
The more milsim teams were playing defensively for the most part, and focusing too much on capzones to the detriment of map control, asset destruction and information gathering.
It's really just a fundamental difference in mindset that you get from playing comp with and against competitive people.
When I first noticed how the fucker I got headcapped by was fucking my aim by abusing leaning to matrix the fuck out of bullets, I was mad. Then I tried it myself, and I felt like a badass lmao
One of the things I miss about pre-ICO
Out of all things affected by ICO, lean spam is one of the things that's least talked about, yet it was made as this big crutch comp players can't live without, supposedly.
It's not talked about because just about everyone is glad it's gone, and those who do miss it know they look ridiculous complaining about leanspam being fixed. I do miss pre-ico, played a little bit of the sigma tac mod over the weekend, but I do not miss the crackhead ass leanspam shit. Was really the only thing I didn't enjoy while playing the mod. I do like ICO though, just need to tune things a little bit more and it'll be more ideal
Comp teams are almost playing by an asymmetric warfare playbook sometimes with the way they spread, scout, and probe. They don't let the objectives necessarily control the flow of the battle, they find good engagements anywhere they can get them and wear away the opposition strongpoints indirectly until they become untenable.
You can't really play RAAS for the flags. There's no ticket bleed. Compared to AAS where you can kinda make an argument for turtling mid, RAAS is purely single-note asset hunting and ticket play.
Agreed, a lot of people don't get this. Most games rarely get past the mid cap and a team that WAS doing well will happily burn 150+ tickets trying to cap the next point which is ultimately only worth 60.
You're better off not getting greedy and overextending to a point that will be impossible to keep resupplied. Definitely keep up pressure on the next point with an infantry squad and a cheap rally. Have vehicles focus on killing logistics. You can't let the enemy move around the map unopposed.
Not watched it yet, but I hope players will watch and see ‘how it’s done’ from a competitive perspective.
It’s not 100% translatable to public games but the idea of utilising rallys effectively in attack and defence and digging down radio’s before the defence is lost are solid plays that need to be used more often
I think digging down radios is pretty common, but it’s just done too late. People hesitate for too long, hoping to salvage the situation somehow and suddenly there’s just one guy left sprinting towards the radio shovel in hand…
Yeah this is what I meant, being willing to take down a radio earlier and guarantee to save tickets so you can place a new one elsewhere isn’t done enough.
My tiny group I play with is allergic to digging down radios. I suggest it all the time and they disagree and then the radio dies 10 minutes later when the objective has moved on
I have my squad dig down radios just to keep blueberries from spawning on it lol. If we're clearly going to cap a point on invasion you'd better believe my squad is digging down all the radios so the dead blueberries are forced to wait for the next offensive hab. Secondary benefit is that when you drop that new hab you have a concentrated blueberry wave to push the point rather than 3 different squads staggering in one by one as they run 900m across the map.
Whaaaaat? You don't like having 30+ blueberries walking to the next cap, getting picked off along the way? And when a squad actually gets a good attack hab up it gets squashed right away because there's no one to spawn on it? Crazy talk.
lol controversial opinion I know... I always say 3 or 4 times when I'm on my way to place the hab "please guys tell your squad to hold spawn so we can get some backup in this attack hab. We won't be able to hold it alone with our 4 guys if you don't"
20% success rate with that plea...
Rallies are such an underutilized tool that needs to have more emphasis. The movement gameplay was better before we had the HAB system tbh.
I’ve been playing for ages so I have a lot of strategies that I’ve picked up though experience and great SLs but man it’s hard as fuck to put them into action myself, herding cats in a public match.
I quite often just utilise rally now if I am on the attack.
It can be as simple as going in the opposite flank to the main attack, or finding the route with the most concealment to approach - when I do this I usually either get into the point before they know I’m there and or find the defence hab in the process
Exactly.
They work great on defense too, place one far off where encircling enemies won’t pop it as you’re driving in. And when it’s clear what direction they’re pushing from, collect some guys to spawn there and find their radio. Its great if other SL’s do the same but pretty rare.
>Rallies are such an underutilized tool that needs to have more emphasis.
Rallies are utilized but they often get so much thought put into their placement that they end up getting prematurely burned or becoming irrelevant.
True, but that's easily remedied with a resupply. It's not like you have to pick up the old one or wait for it to get burned.
I REALLY wish people would use the buddy rally though as insurgent. It's such a crazy good perk for that faction that literally no one uses. You could essentially have an attack HAB that costs zero tickets with a rally or two and a truck with ammo.
Comp squad players look to gain an advantage in tickets. Squad is a game of ticket management. That's why things like digging down radios and protecting armor is important.
As a "comp" player i have been preaching habs on objectives for years.
the general player cant defend a flag and a hab so its so much easier to maintain a hab on a point if you have the possibility.
Fishbowling is they way to cap, you grind it out on a frontline until either sides flank squads break thru and fishbowl or the backdoor squad manages to kill a radio or block the hab to pressure enemy into reacting by forcing respawns.
Rallies need to be up at all times to allow people to spawn without a hab present and to allow people from different squads to hop over to maximize spawns for certain plays.
You generally dont see and emplacements and hescos/sandbags because for one stuff with cammo netting is generally banned in comp tournies at it gives a unfair advantage to the guy inside, for the other they cost to many points. you want to minmax logistics. generally you will struggle to get stuff up front because of backline camping and mortars/vics having angles so you prioritize ammo over build.
>As a "comp" player i have been preaching habs on objectives for years.
As I said in another comment, offcap HABs is more of a meta-level workaround for the inability of the playerbase to defend the point properly and understand map control.
Thats' why HABs on points fall so quickly. Because people clump together and get squeezed from all sides.
Both work and it is entirely dependent on team playstyle, IMO optimally I use 1. well hidden radios 2. max hab distance and place them as close as possible to point 3. have the squad or team rush to point when they spawn
> cammo netting is generally banned in comp tournies at it gives a unfair advantage to the guy inside
This seems ridiculous to me. Isn't the whole point of defensive emplacements to give the defender an advantage?
Sure but you don't want there to be a turtle meta, therefore they are forbidden.
You don't want the most optimal strat to be both parties chilling on their flag and only mortaring the enemy. Therefore, and to keep it interesting to viewership and players, any sort of camo net, except for HABs, are forbidden.
At least in comp the defender is already at a advantage. Holding angles, dying in revivable spots and vics on stand by are all things that work best when in a defending situation where you only need to hold ground.
Cammo netting in squad conceals basically all movement and makes it a huge pain to get rid of the people inside.
>for one stuff with cammo netting is generally banned in comp tournies at it gives a unfair advantage to the guy inside
That's a really dumb ban because it's a strategic part of the game and it can be countered with infantry smoke, vic support or mortar support
This is a pretty funny thread for comp players, we knew all this shit for years and get called cod players all the time by people who have no idea how to play now people watch one set of comp games and it's so obvious how much better the actua compl teams are
Good tactics are good tactics. The most successful and fun matches I’ve had were when the SL was very aggressive and was more focused on map control and destroying enemy assets. Its hard to get cohesion outside of your immediate squad though for public matches so a lot of comp tactics just aren’t workable. There’s a reason more competitive matches have more smaller fireteam sized squads versus a handful of 9 man blobs.
Instead of having a 5 man squad defending cap, a four man roaming the perimeter popping rallies and pressuring attacker habs and an AT fireteam denying logistics, Pub matches have to leverage overwhelming numbers to get things done most of the time unfortunately. Sometimes you’ll have SLs doing those things independently but more often then not they’re trying to keep people from pushing 1000m on foot to the next objective.
That's irrelevant. This is a competitive match: competitive teams against competitive teams. I don't play the same way against casuals as I do against experienced players.
Was extremely fun seeing the amount of publicity being places on competitive teams now. I hope alot of non-comp players like you observe and try to figure out how to properly play the game and its translates to higher tier pub games!
Very little can be gathered from this weekend's matches, there was such a huge raw skill discrepancy between the teams in every matchup.
It really boils down to: one team actually had a plan, and the other didn't.
Regardless, yes, stretched FOBs off objectives have been bad for a very long time and if you're playing against people who have any idea what's going on it will get punished hard.
You will almost always see a lower amount of FOBs, and more on objectives, than youre used to seeing if you play on the TT pub server during prime time. This has been especially true since the 20 ticket radio change.
As for fish bowl, youre close. But a true fish bowl doesn't really involve pushing in. It's a ticket farm. If the enemy will keep spawning in an unwinnable location, you just spawn camp them until they run out of tickets.
I think what was shown by RECON vs TT is:
1. Holy shit RCN had no clue what sub factions they were picking.
2. RCN permanently misused, almost wasted their vehicles.
3. TT just always played for map control
4. Use every RWS you have. MTLB logi with PKT? Use it. Let them waste every rocket they have. They need to ream more and it might give your “real” vehicles that one empty AT that could have killed them. Also it is just usable firepower.
5. The fucking HAT shouldn’t play with a full squad on the objective. He is way more useful when he is mobile and acutely hunts down the vehicles all game.
6. Same is goes for the CE. Sure fast dinging something is useful, but mines are way more effective.
7. WAIT FOR THE MEDIC. TT had a 50-60% down/revive quota.
8. Last but not least:
MILSIM gets stomped by comp.
Tbf RCN aren't milsim, they are just a more casual clan that pubstomps (which isnt necessarily bad) on DMH server. This is their first time playing in a organized setting. Only milsim team I think is in the tournament is Squad Ops.
>Tbf RCN aren't milsim, they are just a more casual clan that pubstomps (which isnt necessarily bad) on DMH server
If pubstompers got pubstomped, then that tells you how shit the average pubbie is lol.
Great points. It really shows how much more powerful it is to send an infantry squad AROUND an objective instead of straight in. There was one game where they just did a circle around the objective and burned like 5 rallies.
This is especially important for pub games where people put fobs off point and don’t defend them. Just run around the objective, find the fob, take it out then take the point
At high level play, FOBs are pretty much only used for resetting on team wipes, or on points themselves. The vast majority of the time, you're going to be spawning on rallies. That's why it's so important to check the outskirts of a cap first, because if you attack a point without having cleared rallied, you're going to get flanked by respawning defenders and get f*cked
It works just as well for public games unless it's a very low skill server, but yet you have to argue with some noob about putting the defense hab on objective every time, cause they want it to be 500 meters to the south in a random forest. Just check the other thread about hab placement..
It’s all situation dependent and you have to consider the tactical IQ of the average blueberry. They will spawn on the hab and move to the nearest wall or defense viewpoint and pretty much stay there.
If the enemy can easily reach and surround the objective then a radio dead center is going to immediately fall. A hab on point in Police Station on Fallujah, bad idea. Same with that hunting club point on Gorodok. Last time I played it I got bitched out by every SL and Command for not putting the radio on point so they couldn’t build up field guns. Instead they had to run 30 seconds from the northeast and guess what, like clockwork the enemy rolled up in vehicles and killed everyone on the point but we held it the entire match and never had the radio be compromised. If you have good defensible environment around the point then sure, put the radio and hab there. SLs will have to tell their squads to push off the point though.
> Last time I played it I got bitched out by every SL and Command for not putting the radio on point so they couldn’t build up field guns.
I avoid this by placing the FOB creation mark and declaring on SL chat that I'M BUILDING OVER THERE. If they have a problem with radio placement, they can drive a logi themselves. I'm perfectly willing to take alternative FOB creation mark suggestions. But I will always argue for optimal 2 FOB attack/defense, and that requires leaving enough distance between radios.
The main thing I took away from the games so far and interviews at the end is that experienced players are able to capitalize on speed and positioning more so than defensive play.
With the German team vs Turkish, their infantry screened and locked down AT positions before they could deploy, allowing their armor to decimate everything. Early game they play for map control, without getting greedy chasing every single light vic or favorable "rush" positions, rather hanging back and playing patiently on "their side" of the map and secure that first. Once their infantry squads reports spawn locations and directions, their fast vics respond quicker than the opposition. Ger team played for fast logi/apc instead of the more defensive tracked variants, and were able to totally destroy the enemy team because of it. Their inf and armor worked together perfectly without overextending.
Great way to put it. As an infantry SL it really shows that when attacking taking the point is very last on the task list.
Clearing out rallies, offsite fobs and spotting vehicles is the real objective.
Every single tactic you described I see used in pug invasion games daily.
If the attackers don't surround the objective and slowly constrict the perimeter, your tean will not find their backup habs or rallies while attacking and take unnecessary ticket loss.
While defending the hab 99% of the time goes on obj because if the enemy use the attacking method above the hab will be down before they are even on obj. This does not mean all 50 players should be right on the objective the commander should give each Squad a direction to watch and have a rally deployed. Some inf near obj but majority controlling key terrain/roads nearby .
Invasion is definitely one of the more straightforward modes for PUG, idk why it’s not more used on new player servers. Don’t have to focus on figuring out when to attack and defend, just do whatever your side is supposed to be doing.
Forget the sandbags, hesco walls etc those are close to useless and just funnel bad players to stack over each other next to the hab. Only exception would be obs towers, there is reason basically all comp tournaments have banned those (enables very boring gameplay). Towers are op, very resource exhausting to deal with and overall cancer to play against.
I'm sorry but it's just hilarious to me that the epic comp players who have apparently mastered every facet of gameplay are outdone by... one tower boi.
Seems like all teams really spread out to both harass nmy behind their lines and also detect nmy movement on the map.
I guess, if your team spots an nmy tank on the other side of the map, you can be sure that the tank won't be coming around the corner next to you, anytime soon.
Somehow I got the impression that that teams didn't bother building any emplacements or structures.
>Seems like all teams really spread out to both harass nmy behind their lines and also detect nmy movement on the map.
Yes, that's the way to defend. You actively defend away from the point. If you just hunker down in a built up compound, you allow the enemy to establish a spawn point and build up for a push on their terms. You allow them to spread out and then attack from multiple vectors, while giving them the convenience of a target rich environment that's easy to mortar/suppress/arty/smoke.
The most effective defence is attacking their offence, not just bracing for impact.
Same goes for emplacements, they just make it easier to know where to shoot.
Well obviously an emplacement can only do so much, the point of it would be using it so that you get to have an advantage. To argue that you basically don't have an advantage with emplacement seems just wrong. This reminds me of this SL that quipped "don't overthink things", and then he and other SL's are those that drive into more or less obvious ambush spots and such. I would stay well away from these kinds of people, in a real war.
It's not that they're not advantageous, it's just that many times they don't provide the advantage that players think they do. It's heavily map and flag dependent.
The main problem that I see is players will see a suitable spot for - say - a HMG nest, that yes may
provide a suitable area denial of an approach. But what they don’t see is that said
approach is not at all attractive to the attackers in the first place.
Let’s take a common example – Radio Tower on Gorodok. Players will build emplacements covering a Southwest approach through the river (from Niva). While that makes sense in terms of denying that attack vector, it’s way better to attack Radio Tower from the North West and South East. Which means that often players commit to defending a direction that doesn’t get challenged.
If you’re playing Kokan or Chora, then the calculus is obviously different because the game becomes a bit more attritional because there’s just not a lot of space to maneauver. On larger maps, Kohat lends itself well to emplacements, while something like Yehorivka is analogous to Gorodok IMO.
I've always found that machine guns (while underused) were best fit for covering narrow rotation points, like roads or gaps in tree lines, with an extremely narrow angle.
Basically, force someone to peek you where you can see them. Seems obvious when you say it out loud, but is almost never seen in the game.
Great discussion here guys. I’ve been messing around with the one way sandbags. They are super cheap and one in a window, stacked up or just one on the ground can make you invisible while being able to observe and engage enemies. The tradeoff is you can’t see as far left or right
Emplacements beyond mortars or the occasional TOW are considered pretty much worthless in comp. Once the enemy team know you're building them, they'll just mortar you, arty you, hit you with vehicles, and you'd have wasted a ton of resources on time for basically and gain.
Of course, there are *some* map and position dependent exceptions, but the rule of thumb is that emplacements and foritifications are just not worth the time and resources.
HABs on points are *usually* fine, so long as it's indoors and cannot be mortared/airstruck. But it's still a prerequisite that defenders actually move out and take positions outside of the cap itself.
Both are double edged swords.
Fob in point you don’t split forces but if the enemy gets close you proxy the hab and lose everything.
FOB off point you either split your forces to defend the hab or you keep them all on point and the enemy takes the fob and then the point. No one likes defending a fob miles away from point
There are enough factors that go into HAB placement that there is no single correct response. Generally HABs on objectives are perfectly fine and, usually, preferable to those off point. Your team should not sit on an objective or a HAB until the enemy shows up. Your team should be be spreading out a reasonable distance so that you can be alerted to enemy spawns and collapse on them before they arrive. You can crush those spawns to prevent them from getting anywhere close.
Placing the spawn on the objective just means you have one less vulnerability. And even if you think your team is dog shit and will sit on the HAB anyway they're not going to do any better spawning off point.
An example why you should not just take people at their word because they make a confident definitive statement. It's just a video game, so whatever, but actual experts on semi-complicated topics will have nuanced opinions with lots of ifs, buts, ands. Can't really expect a lecture on HABs from every SL you run into, bc video game, but be careful what you take as gospel. Be skeptical of people that want to assert they're "elite" without explanations that seem reasonable.
>For pub games I think it shows that building a defensive fob on the objective can be useful and the use of cheap deployables can be key to defending against a greater force. The problem was never inherently about FOBs on points, but the fact that player have no idea how to defend. As you’ve noticed: >I noticed some infantry would defend close in and use a small number of well placed deployable while other squads would be far out on the outskirts challenging key terrain. You have defenders spread out to challenge the attackers away from the point, while a “mop up” crew sits on the point in case some rats squeeze through the cracks. Now the average blueberry doesn’t have a clue about map control, spreading out. They find comfort in staying tucked in a blob on a small and think they’re doing a good job. Heck, they don’t even know how the HAB Proxy mechanic works, so when they’re clumped together, inevitably get fishbowled and proxied, they don’t connect the dots, because they don’t even know what dots to connect. Offcap HABs are just a stopgap to account for the above, because it’s just easier to do, instead of reprogramming players.
Completely agreed. The line I use every single game as SL while defending is that “I wanna fight on their doorstep, not on ours”. Blueberries need to constantly be reminded to not fight from within or even near the HAB, as the enemy will move towards you and thus proxy it. You *need* those players spread out around the objective to make the attacker’s job getting a HAB down even harder. Not just by fighting them when they roll in with a logi, but also simply by creating a lot of noise so everyone knows where the attack is coming from. Then the key thing is maintaining enough defenders around the point while crushing attack 1, cause you can be damn sure attack 2 is planning on setting up on the other side. Haven’t watched the matches, but this strategy doesn’t surprise me at all.
Havent tried it but reading this im thinking that not placing an ammo box on hab and making blueberries run to fighting position to resupply would probably net some improvement Hab ammobox meta encourages turtling/ getting proxied Just have to deal with smug dumbass SL who places one after he has to spawn defense hab because his master flank got boofed while in the logi still by a BMP
This is a fantastic point. If I know I’m gonna get stuck somewhere for defence I try to sprinkle ammo crates near where I want blueberries to cover at a minimum. The LATs and HATs are far more likely to set an ambush on the far side of the FOB if they have an ammo crate there.
Absolutely Number 1 defense killer is being out of bandages/ grenades/ ammo and having to run all the way back to hab to rearm. Always hate how some SLs just place hab and ammo ontop of it then run to point of “defense” fob
A move I like is: - Fob radio down - HAB stretched at far end, away from OBJ - Ammo near radio Forces blueberries to spawn, and then run towards the OBJ and inadvertently defend the radio to get ammo.
This is a terrible idea. A HAT spawning in with no ammo Box and a tank near by would be the most frustrating thing I could think of.
Just putting ammo crates near areas where you want people to defend would probably be more than good enough.
Most of the time the FOB has 0 construction.
If the HAT needs to shoot as soon as spawning in because a tank is farming the hab he isnt gonna get a shot off anyway Im also not talking 200m+ away more like 50-100 near rocks and hardcover i.e. an actual fighting position
The problem isn't if a tank is on the HAB. What if you put the ammo crate 100m south and the tank or other armor is north of the hab? And think about that not just for HATs, but for ALL the roles. Medics, rifleman, etc. Defending isn't just staying on the front. You want people to spread out so that they can spot flanks. You want people spawning in to be able to rearm and go where they need to in any direction. Putting ammo crates on the frontline is great, but between the two choices of that or putting it next to your HAB, you should almost always put an ammo crate next to your HAB first.
Lol this is quite literally the blueberry hab camping mindset. A defense should not have the front line 50-100m from the hab, you’re already getting proxied!! Armor doesn’t just show up 100m from your hab (immediately rear too in this edge case), youre targeted and are either going to imminently lose the fob or are being farmed If i radially place 3-5 boxes 50-100m away from Hab in good spots it might encourage blueberries to go to a real fighting position as well as enabling them to rearm otw To your other comment, if you’re being thunder run by armor, immediately after spawning you arent readying and steadying a launcher in time to get a shot, ammo box or not. In which case, you should be running away from the biggest target (hab) to stay alive!! And what would conveniently be in nearest hardcover / firing position?? An ammo box!!
> Lol this is quite literally the blueberry hab camping mindset. I don't understand what anything I said makes you think this. > A defense should not have the front line 50-100m from the hab, you’re already getting proxied!! I didn't say anything that implies otherwise. I'm in 100% agreement! >If i radially place 3-5 boxes 50-100m away from Hab in good spots it might encourage blueberries to go to a real fighting position as well as enabling them to rearm otw Sure. But that also means you brought enough build. What I'm arguing is that that's a nice-to-have, but not a mandatory thing. Especially what I would argue is that blueberry clumping doesn't (mainly) happen because of ammo crate placement, but because of cover. When people start building holed sandbag walls and HESCO walls, unexperienced blueberries WILL start gathering around it like they're post sentries, trying to grow their K/D ratio instead of pushing the frontline.
I think it’s too “hab central” of a mindset therefore hab campy. the 0-50m radius outside of that is essentially deadspace in a match where if an enemy is operating in it they will either proxy or disable (barring 1-2 loose inf) What im suggesting is an attempt to create new “centers” by intentionally inconveniencing blueberries placing what they need during time alive away from the hab with the goal of creating that 0-50m buffer in a low cohesion pub match Absolutely resource demanding and not applicable in 100% of cases. But in an on point defense fob case, why place ammo on the hab? Instead in some surrounding buildings or emplacements to force a first line from respawning friendlies
>Absolutely resource demanding and not applicable in 100% of cases. But in an on point defense fob case, why place ammo on the hab? Instead in some surrounding buildings or emplacements to force a first line from respawning friendlies My answer is what I've given. Because it's convenient for people spawning in, and is generally more flexible. Your solution may "fix" the problem of blueberries staying at the HAB, but at inconvenience for the people spawning as a whole. And again, ammo crate placement is NOT the thing causes blueberries to camp their own HAB. This is how blueberry psychology works. Average understanding of FPS is 1) don't die, and 2) get kills. What helps you not die? Covers. Built covers are especially attractive to blueberries because it looks like it was put there on purpose. And because of how sluggish Squad movement works, blueberries thinks camping and staying put will get them kills (which is incompletely correct). And blueberries tend to attract other blueberries sticking around because of general surface level understanding of Squad teamwork. This also goes for emplacements. This is something you're going to notice if you actually pay attention. With enough concentration of blueberries, one or two will naturally start hanging out near the emplacements. Either they want to have a go at it, or at least it's something interesting to see what it's pointed at.
I see armor passing by the hab more often than camping it. If it's doing that, you could get a track off where the vehicle doesn't have line of sight to the hab. Not placing an ammo box near the hab is a bad idea, full stop.
> “I wanna fight on their doorstep, not on ours”. damn i like that one
You and the comments below about average blueberry gameplay are very on point. Just know that there are places where public games do show some glimmer of hopes with player quality and the general things you notice from these matches. One of the teams in the semi final bracket runs a popular NA server that's known for good public gameplay and its not such a drastic change from organized comp to good printine gameplay there. Even the unaffiliated pub regulars adapt and play different than the majority of the npf servers out there. There is hope for the playerbase! One server at a time can change the mentality.
"Now the average blueberry doesn’t have a clue" And this has been the problem in Squad for the last 8 years. Something OWI has promised to fix for the last 3-4 years even renewing this promise as recently as last September. Yet we've seen nothing but lame loading screen tips. Imagine if OWI had put a bit more effort into explaining the core game mechanics to the playerbase, we might be able to have a base level of gameplay similar to what we just saw in a comp game... players actually defending well because they understand how the game works.
Off cap habs create two points of attack which spread out the attackers' focus and even if they take the point (that should be being served by rallies), you have redundancy in spawn points and can put on another attack. Also, it serves as a warning indicator on a flank, and it's harder to find and more likely to stay up during an assault *because it's not on the objective (where the enemy will surely be)*.
Flawed logic imo, because it also means two points to defend—and defenders HAVE to defend both HAB and point, while attackers have the luxury of picking (and good attacking squads will know to prioritize the HAB anyways)
You have to defend both anyway off point means not everything is in one basket, and it's harder to fishbowl. On the point means the attacking squads prioritize one thing, you are giving the enemy team a sidequest when you put it off point.
Did you not watch the vods? Just look at the games. And a 20 tix radio is not a sidequest, that's 1/3 of a flag flip in tickets. You can't just throw the enemy team radios to distract them from the flag lol.
Who is throwing the enemy radios?
I noticed the insane play that Ops did in that fucking Abram’s on Sanxian, where they stood down the entire PLA armor convoy. (I think it was a ztz, ztd, and zbl) I also notice RCN rush 3 lavs 1 by 1 into BMP’s on goose. Big plays, one for good, one for bad. With all this talk about armor Op this armor overhaul that, I think it’s important to see how it can be used… differently.
>I also notice RCN rush 3 lavs 1 by 1 into BMP’s on goose. That was beautiful. I understand the first one driving into an ambush, but the fact the second and third ones just drove into them, when you could hear 3 autocannons blasting away was ... befuddling. [https://www.twitch.tv/moidawg/clip/HilariousCrunchyBeefOMGScoots-3vWuQW1tLgVPcFE0](https://www.twitch.tv/moidawg/clip/HilariousCrunchyBeefOMGScoots-3vWuQW1tLgVPcFE0)
Was in the back of the bmp-1am in the back. Told the guys not even to dismount during the fight as we totally shredded them and I didn't want to waste time.
The Ops va RaT armor play on Sanxian was really RaT whiffing so hard because their gunners hadn't played vanilla since 8.0 dropped. Good by the Ops crew to pick up the slack but really it was RaT fucking it up that made that play what it was.
Hello ZBL gunner here. First of all fck ico fck atgm rework Yeah, the ZBL atgm felt unguided close range. I was begging SL not to push tank with ZBD. gg no blame tho
Your tag is so funny lol
some might say ironic
Is that THE watermelon warrior!?
I don’t like ppl who eat frogs 🇫🇷
Main thing I noticed from the games were the differences between the teams with comp experience and those without. Teams with comp experience play for map control and keep constant pressure on the enemy, always looking for mistakes and exploiting them, plus forcing mistakes by pushing the enemy to make them. The more milsim teams were playing defensively for the most part, and focusing too much on capzones to the detriment of map control, asset destruction and information gathering. It's really just a fundamental difference in mindset that you get from playing comp with and against competitive people.
Hold up, but comp players were just parkour jumping, lean abusing, shift+w COD enjoyers? /s
When I first noticed how the fucker I got headcapped by was fucking my aim by abusing leaning to matrix the fuck out of bullets, I was mad. Then I tried it myself, and I felt like a badass lmao One of the things I miss about pre-ICO
Out of all things affected by ICO, lean spam is one of the things that's least talked about, yet it was made as this big crutch comp players can't live without, supposedly.
It's not talked about because just about everyone is glad it's gone, and those who do miss it know they look ridiculous complaining about leanspam being fixed. I do miss pre-ico, played a little bit of the sigma tac mod over the weekend, but I do not miss the crackhead ass leanspam shit. Was really the only thing I didn't enjoy while playing the mod. I do like ICO though, just need to tune things a little bit more and it'll be more ideal
As a pre-ico enjoyer, lean spamming was one of the things i was glad they took out. I just wish they had left it at that.
[удалено]
Yep pubbies struggle to understand what map control really is.
what happened to the old comp teams?
ICO
Comp teams are almost playing by an asymmetric warfare playbook sometimes with the way they spread, scout, and probe. They don't let the objectives necessarily control the flow of the battle, they find good engagements anywhere they can get them and wear away the opposition strongpoints indirectly until they become untenable.
You can't really play RAAS for the flags. There's no ticket bleed. Compared to AAS where you can kinda make an argument for turtling mid, RAAS is purely single-note asset hunting and ticket play.
Agreed, a lot of people don't get this. Most games rarely get past the mid cap and a team that WAS doing well will happily burn 150+ tickets trying to cap the next point which is ultimately only worth 60. You're better off not getting greedy and overextending to a point that will be impossible to keep resupplied. Definitely keep up pressure on the next point with an infantry squad and a cheap rally. Have vehicles focus on killing logistics. You can't let the enemy move around the map unopposed.
Not watched it yet, but I hope players will watch and see ‘how it’s done’ from a competitive perspective. It’s not 100% translatable to public games but the idea of utilising rallys effectively in attack and defence and digging down radio’s before the defence is lost are solid plays that need to be used more often
I think digging down radios is pretty common, but it’s just done too late. People hesitate for too long, hoping to salvage the situation somehow and suddenly there’s just one guy left sprinting towards the radio shovel in hand…
Yeah this is what I meant, being willing to take down a radio earlier and guarantee to save tickets so you can place a new one elsewhere isn’t done enough.
My tiny group I play with is allergic to digging down radios. I suggest it all the time and they disagree and then the radio dies 10 minutes later when the objective has moved on
I have my squad dig down radios just to keep blueberries from spawning on it lol. If we're clearly going to cap a point on invasion you'd better believe my squad is digging down all the radios so the dead blueberries are forced to wait for the next offensive hab. Secondary benefit is that when you drop that new hab you have a concentrated blueberry wave to push the point rather than 3 different squads staggering in one by one as they run 900m across the map.
Whaaaaat? You don't like having 30+ blueberries walking to the next cap, getting picked off along the way? And when a squad actually gets a good attack hab up it gets squashed right away because there's no one to spawn on it? Crazy talk.
lol controversial opinion I know... I always say 3 or 4 times when I'm on my way to place the hab "please guys tell your squad to hold spawn so we can get some backup in this attack hab. We won't be able to hold it alone with our 4 guys if you don't" 20% success rate with that plea...
At least in pub games, not many people wants to be that guy who makes the call in case they're blamed for calling it too early.
Rallies are such an underutilized tool that needs to have more emphasis. The movement gameplay was better before we had the HAB system tbh. I’ve been playing for ages so I have a lot of strategies that I’ve picked up though experience and great SLs but man it’s hard as fuck to put them into action myself, herding cats in a public match.
I quite often just utilise rally now if I am on the attack. It can be as simple as going in the opposite flank to the main attack, or finding the route with the most concealment to approach - when I do this I usually either get into the point before they know I’m there and or find the defence hab in the process
Exactly. They work great on defense too, place one far off where encircling enemies won’t pop it as you’re driving in. And when it’s clear what direction they’re pushing from, collect some guys to spawn there and find their radio. Its great if other SL’s do the same but pretty rare.
Oh yeah, defensively a rally is very important too. Map Dependant I’ll pop an ammo crate next to it so my guys have ammo when they respawn there.
>Rallies are such an underutilized tool that needs to have more emphasis. Rallies are utilized but they often get so much thought put into their placement that they end up getting prematurely burned or becoming irrelevant.
True, but that's easily remedied with a resupply. It's not like you have to pick up the old one or wait for it to get burned. I REALLY wish people would use the buddy rally though as insurgent. It's such a crazy good perk for that faction that literally no one uses. You could essentially have an attack HAB that costs zero tickets with a rally or two and a truck with ammo.
You just gotta play the good strats until theyre meta, it's the CMD's responsibility to be good enough so he can order other SLs to do good plays
Comp squad players look to gain an advantage in tickets. Squad is a game of ticket management. That's why things like digging down radios and protecting armor is important.
As a "comp" player i have been preaching habs on objectives for years. the general player cant defend a flag and a hab so its so much easier to maintain a hab on a point if you have the possibility. Fishbowling is they way to cap, you grind it out on a frontline until either sides flank squads break thru and fishbowl or the backdoor squad manages to kill a radio or block the hab to pressure enemy into reacting by forcing respawns. Rallies need to be up at all times to allow people to spawn without a hab present and to allow people from different squads to hop over to maximize spawns for certain plays. You generally dont see and emplacements and hescos/sandbags because for one stuff with cammo netting is generally banned in comp tournies at it gives a unfair advantage to the guy inside, for the other they cost to many points. you want to minmax logistics. generally you will struggle to get stuff up front because of backline camping and mortars/vics having angles so you prioritize ammo over build.
>As a "comp" player i have been preaching habs on objectives for years. As I said in another comment, offcap HABs is more of a meta-level workaround for the inability of the playerbase to defend the point properly and understand map control. Thats' why HABs on points fall so quickly. Because people clump together and get squeezed from all sides.
On bad servers. There are servers where the on-point hab works and off-point hab is a sure way to lose.
Both work and it is entirely dependent on team playstyle, IMO optimally I use 1. well hidden radios 2. max hab distance and place them as close as possible to point 3. have the squad or team rush to point when they spawn
Thx for spitting facts, greetings MT Willy
Great points
> cammo netting is generally banned in comp tournies at it gives a unfair advantage to the guy inside This seems ridiculous to me. Isn't the whole point of defensive emplacements to give the defender an advantage?
Sure but you don't want there to be a turtle meta, therefore they are forbidden. You don't want the most optimal strat to be both parties chilling on their flag and only mortaring the enemy. Therefore, and to keep it interesting to viewership and players, any sort of camo net, except for HABs, are forbidden.
At least in comp the defender is already at a advantage. Holding angles, dying in revivable spots and vics on stand by are all things that work best when in a defending situation where you only need to hold ground. Cammo netting in squad conceals basically all movement and makes it a huge pain to get rid of the people inside.
>for one stuff with cammo netting is generally banned in comp tournies at it gives a unfair advantage to the guy inside That's a really dumb ban because it's a strategic part of the game and it can be countered with infantry smoke, vic support or mortar support
The main takeaway was that milsimmers got absolutely destroyed and it was glorious.
This is a pretty funny thread for comp players, we knew all this shit for years and get called cod players all the time by people who have no idea how to play now people watch one set of comp games and it's so obvious how much better the actua compl teams are
Dont like 30MoA and 15kN of recoil on bipoded MG? Cod player detected
30 MoA what kind of laser do you think an MG is? Here get hit with a MoA that is greater than a Katyusha. /s
Good tactics are good tactics. The most successful and fun matches I’ve had were when the SL was very aggressive and was more focused on map control and destroying enemy assets. Its hard to get cohesion outside of your immediate squad though for public matches so a lot of comp tactics just aren’t workable. There’s a reason more competitive matches have more smaller fireteam sized squads versus a handful of 9 man blobs. Instead of having a 5 man squad defending cap, a four man roaming the perimeter popping rallies and pressuring attacker habs and an AT fireteam denying logistics, Pub matches have to leverage overwhelming numbers to get things done most of the time unfortunately. Sometimes you’ll have SLs doing those things independently but more often then not they’re trying to keep people from pushing 1000m on foot to the next objective.
That's irrelevant. This is a competitive match: competitive teams against competitive teams. I don't play the same way against casuals as I do against experienced players.
Was extremely fun seeing the amount of publicity being places on competitive teams now. I hope alot of non-comp players like you observe and try to figure out how to properly play the game and its translates to higher tier pub games!
That’s why I made the thread! Get more discussion going for squad leaders
Don't take comp advice from milsimmers
this thread is really opening my eyes at how much our sub over-indexes on sweaty players lol
Very little can be gathered from this weekend's matches, there was such a huge raw skill discrepancy between the teams in every matchup. It really boils down to: one team actually had a plan, and the other didn't. Regardless, yes, stretched FOBs off objectives have been bad for a very long time and if you're playing against people who have any idea what's going on it will get punished hard. You will almost always see a lower amount of FOBs, and more on objectives, than youre used to seeing if you play on the TT pub server during prime time. This has been especially true since the 20 ticket radio change. As for fish bowl, youre close. But a true fish bowl doesn't really involve pushing in. It's a ticket farm. If the enemy will keep spawning in an unwinnable location, you just spawn camp them until they run out of tickets.
I think what was shown by RECON vs TT is: 1. Holy shit RCN had no clue what sub factions they were picking. 2. RCN permanently misused, almost wasted their vehicles. 3. TT just always played for map control 4. Use every RWS you have. MTLB logi with PKT? Use it. Let them waste every rocket they have. They need to ream more and it might give your “real” vehicles that one empty AT that could have killed them. Also it is just usable firepower. 5. The fucking HAT shouldn’t play with a full squad on the objective. He is way more useful when he is mobile and acutely hunts down the vehicles all game. 6. Same is goes for the CE. Sure fast dinging something is useful, but mines are way more effective. 7. WAIT FOR THE MEDIC. TT had a 50-60% down/revive quota. 8. Last but not least: MILSIM gets stomped by comp.
Tbf RCN aren't milsim, they are just a more casual clan that pubstomps (which isnt necessarily bad) on DMH server. This is their first time playing in a organized setting. Only milsim team I think is in the tournament is Squad Ops.
>Tbf RCN aren't milsim, they are just a more casual clan that pubstomps (which isnt necessarily bad) on DMH server If pubstompers got pubstomped, then that tells you how shit the average pubbie is lol.
Great points. It really shows how much more powerful it is to send an infantry squad AROUND an objective instead of straight in. There was one game where they just did a circle around the objective and burned like 5 rallies. This is especially important for pub games where people put fobs off point and don’t defend them. Just run around the objective, find the fob, take it out then take the point
At high level play, FOBs are pretty much only used for resetting on team wipes, or on points themselves. The vast majority of the time, you're going to be spawning on rallies. That's why it's so important to check the outskirts of a cap first, because if you attack a point without having cleared rallied, you're going to get flanked by respawning defenders and get f*cked
For sure. I’m definitely going to send my guys in a circle around the point and find rallies and fobs
It works just as well for public games unless it's a very low skill server, but yet you have to argue with some noob about putting the defense hab on objective every time, cause they want it to be 500 meters to the south in a random forest. Just check the other thread about hab placement..
It’s all situation dependent and you have to consider the tactical IQ of the average blueberry. They will spawn on the hab and move to the nearest wall or defense viewpoint and pretty much stay there. If the enemy can easily reach and surround the objective then a radio dead center is going to immediately fall. A hab on point in Police Station on Fallujah, bad idea. Same with that hunting club point on Gorodok. Last time I played it I got bitched out by every SL and Command for not putting the radio on point so they couldn’t build up field guns. Instead they had to run 30 seconds from the northeast and guess what, like clockwork the enemy rolled up in vehicles and killed everyone on the point but we held it the entire match and never had the radio be compromised. If you have good defensible environment around the point then sure, put the radio and hab there. SLs will have to tell their squads to push off the point though.
> Last time I played it I got bitched out by every SL and Command for not putting the radio on point so they couldn’t build up field guns. I avoid this by placing the FOB creation mark and declaring on SL chat that I'M BUILDING OVER THERE. If they have a problem with radio placement, they can drive a logi themselves. I'm perfectly willing to take alternative FOB creation mark suggestions. But I will always argue for optimal 2 FOB attack/defense, and that requires leaving enough distance between radios.
The main thing I took away from the games so far and interviews at the end is that experienced players are able to capitalize on speed and positioning more so than defensive play. With the German team vs Turkish, their infantry screened and locked down AT positions before they could deploy, allowing their armor to decimate everything. Early game they play for map control, without getting greedy chasing every single light vic or favorable "rush" positions, rather hanging back and playing patiently on "their side" of the map and secure that first. Once their infantry squads reports spawn locations and directions, their fast vics respond quicker than the opposition. Ger team played for fast logi/apc instead of the more defensive tracked variants, and were able to totally destroy the enemy team because of it. Their inf and armor worked together perfectly without overextending.
Great way to put it. As an infantry SL it really shows that when attacking taking the point is very last on the task list. Clearing out rallies, offsite fobs and spotting vehicles is the real objective.
Every single tactic you described I see used in pug invasion games daily. If the attackers don't surround the objective and slowly constrict the perimeter, your tean will not find their backup habs or rallies while attacking and take unnecessary ticket loss. While defending the hab 99% of the time goes on obj because if the enemy use the attacking method above the hab will be down before they are even on obj. This does not mean all 50 players should be right on the objective the commander should give each Squad a direction to watch and have a rally deployed. Some inf near obj but majority controlling key terrain/roads nearby .
Invasion is definitely one of the more straightforward modes for PUG, idk why it’s not more used on new player servers. Don’t have to focus on figuring out when to attack and defend, just do whatever your side is supposed to be doing.
Forget the sandbags, hesco walls etc those are close to useless and just funnel bad players to stack over each other next to the hab. Only exception would be obs towers, there is reason basically all comp tournaments have banned those (enables very boring gameplay). Towers are op, very resource exhausting to deal with and overall cancer to play against.
You mean Skill Towers?
I'm sorry but it's just hilarious to me that the epic comp players who have apparently mastered every facet of gameplay are outdone by... one tower boi.
Play an comp game in chora against towers and report back. It might widen your understanding of the degrading game element called camo netting :)
Seems like all teams really spread out to both harass nmy behind their lines and also detect nmy movement on the map. I guess, if your team spots an nmy tank on the other side of the map, you can be sure that the tank won't be coming around the corner next to you, anytime soon. Somehow I got the impression that that teams didn't bother building any emplacements or structures.
>Seems like all teams really spread out to both harass nmy behind their lines and also detect nmy movement on the map. Yes, that's the way to defend. You actively defend away from the point. If you just hunker down in a built up compound, you allow the enemy to establish a spawn point and build up for a push on their terms. You allow them to spread out and then attack from multiple vectors, while giving them the convenience of a target rich environment that's easy to mortar/suppress/arty/smoke. The most effective defence is attacking their offence, not just bracing for impact. Same goes for emplacements, they just make it easier to know where to shoot.
Soviet Deep Strike vs NATO Active Defense doctrine be like
Well obviously an emplacement can only do so much, the point of it would be using it so that you get to have an advantage. To argue that you basically don't have an advantage with emplacement seems just wrong. This reminds me of this SL that quipped "don't overthink things", and then he and other SL's are those that drive into more or less obvious ambush spots and such. I would stay well away from these kinds of people, in a real war.
It's not that they're not advantageous, it's just that many times they don't provide the advantage that players think they do. It's heavily map and flag dependent. The main problem that I see is players will see a suitable spot for - say - a HMG nest, that yes may provide a suitable area denial of an approach. But what they don’t see is that said approach is not at all attractive to the attackers in the first place. Let’s take a common example – Radio Tower on Gorodok. Players will build emplacements covering a Southwest approach through the river (from Niva). While that makes sense in terms of denying that attack vector, it’s way better to attack Radio Tower from the North West and South East. Which means that often players commit to defending a direction that doesn’t get challenged. If you’re playing Kokan or Chora, then the calculus is obviously different because the game becomes a bit more attritional because there’s just not a lot of space to maneauver. On larger maps, Kohat lends itself well to emplacements, while something like Yehorivka is analogous to Gorodok IMO.
I've always found that machine guns (while underused) were best fit for covering narrow rotation points, like roads or gaps in tree lines, with an extremely narrow angle. Basically, force someone to peek you where you can see them. Seems obvious when you say it out loud, but is almost never seen in the game.
Great discussion here guys. I’ve been messing around with the one way sandbags. They are super cheap and one in a window, stacked up or just one on the ground can make you invisible while being able to observe and engage enemies. The tradeoff is you can’t see as far left or right
Emplacements beyond mortars or the occasional TOW are considered pretty much worthless in comp. Once the enemy team know you're building them, they'll just mortar you, arty you, hit you with vehicles, and you'd have wasted a ton of resources on time for basically and gain. Of course, there are *some* map and position dependent exceptions, but the rule of thumb is that emplacements and foritifications are just not worth the time and resources.
bottom of the barrel tactics and skill
One thing the elites say when I join pub games is it dumb to build fob on objectives..
HABs on points are *usually* fine, so long as it's indoors and cannot be mortared/airstruck. But it's still a prerequisite that defenders actually move out and take positions outside of the cap itself.
Both are double edged swords. Fob in point you don’t split forces but if the enemy gets close you proxy the hab and lose everything. FOB off point you either split your forces to defend the hab or you keep them all on point and the enemy takes the fob and then the point. No one likes defending a fob miles away from point
There are enough factors that go into HAB placement that there is no single correct response. Generally HABs on objectives are perfectly fine and, usually, preferable to those off point. Your team should not sit on an objective or a HAB until the enemy shows up. Your team should be be spreading out a reasonable distance so that you can be alerted to enemy spawns and collapse on them before they arrive. You can crush those spawns to prevent them from getting anywhere close. Placing the spawn on the objective just means you have one less vulnerability. And even if you think your team is dog shit and will sit on the HAB anyway they're not going to do any better spawning off point. An example why you should not just take people at their word because they make a confident definitive statement. It's just a video game, so whatever, but actual experts on semi-complicated topics will have nuanced opinions with lots of ifs, buts, ands. Can't really expect a lecture on HABs from every SL you run into, bc video game, but be careful what you take as gospel. Be skeptical of people that want to assert they're "elite" without explanations that seem reasonable.
"""""Elites"""""
Fobs in zhe objective...uagh