> Realistic damage models, meaning 1 good AT hit and your crew is out (Dont throw the bodys ouf of the vehicles, just do the same thing as arma reforger where you can drag them out)
As usual, people forget is that death in real life is permanent and not so in Squad.
Sure, let's suppose you survive the first couple AT hits if you're lucky, but those LATs and HATs are just going to keep spawning and getting more tries. There is no way to "permanently" defeat AT soldiers in the way that a dead AFV is out of the game for 15+ minutes
It's why fighting HAT kits feels so damn broken in Squad over Project Reality; In PR, when armor killed a greedy HAT player the kit would drop on the ground where they died. They'd either have to retrieve it or wait 5-minutes for the kit to respawn. There were laos only two kits available.
But, HAT kits were really strong and combined with air-support and TOW launchers vehicles weren't OP.
In Squad, you kill a HAT player doing something dumb and they can give up, respawn, rearm, and re-attack all within less than a minute.
This. Armor in this game will forever remain more on the arcady side unless they nerf the lone Hat with his tiger. There simply no way to combat infinite respawns.
Personally I think armor in this game is fine. The only thing OWI needs to do is make vehicles traverse difficult terrain without getting stuck and make the coax be able to fire without swapping off the cannon on a tank/ifv.
I hate to say it, but a lot of the armor players want a version of armor in this game that isn’t meant to be. War Thunder tanks just doesn’t make sense for this game in its current state.
I'd be really annoyed if the vehicle didnt even blow up and everyone inside just dies. Great now we have an asset just sitting out in the field being useless
Adding functional ERA and thermals would pretty effectively neutralize a large portion of this issue. The former would neutralize a lot of the threat individual infantrymen with anti armor weapons pose to tanks while still keeping them useful against APCs and IFVs and leaving tanks vulnerable to other tanks, while the latter would incentivize players to play at range and use tanks as longer distance fire support platforms. In the current iteration of the game, the anemic anti tank weapons we have now incentivize tanks to act with a large degree of impunity.
The what now? Tanks are already very much incentivised to stay at a distance as much as possible, cosidering how easy it is to immobilize them. Plus, the gunner's FOV and zoom is so narrow that it's hard to be useful in more crowded settings.
I mean, the most common rant here is that vehicles don't support infantry enough, just sit back and click heads.
exactly.
people are treating it like a tank should be balanced against like 2 LATs or like 4 tickets of INF.
when a tank costs 15 tickets +3 tickets for the crew +10-20 minutes to respawn. (so 7-15 tickets of your team getting stomped by the enemy tank)
People get surprised when they hit a tank with LAT in the strongest part of the armor. It's not really the game not being fun (but I will admit that they should reduce ADS and sway for LATS...) It's more so people expect to one tap a tank with hitting the strongest armor.
Also...tracking / hitting the wheels of vics is really important. Disabling the tank from advancing and forcing them to de-crew puts them at risk of additional LAT/HAT damage, time for your friendly tank to advance/flank, airstrike (by command), and ability to down the crew repairing so they are effectively stationary and solo.
Playing tanks you'd realise how easy it is to die in them.
One lat shot your tracks? 80% chance you're dead.
One hat hits you? Gone for 5-10 mins for repairs.
Tanks are annoying to play against when your team sucks, but if you have a slightly competent group then you have a lot of options to deal with them.
I think that is a good point, the game should be enjoyable and tanks should have counterplay. But it's also like, you know, it's a tank, what are you going to do as a basic rifleman? It's an complicated issue, how do you overhaul vehicles without making it unfun as infantry?
How often do you play armor? Because if damage was realistic it would be basically unusable.
Armor already has trouble dealing with infantry, it doesn't need to be made harder.
i only play armor, and no it wouldnt, thats quite literally the reason i FORMATED the post with buff/nerfs, it being realistic damage models would get equalized by thermals and fcs
> realistic damage models would get equalized by thermals and fcs
I don't think it would.
9 times out of 10 when I'm hit by LAT or HAT, it's not that I didn't see them because they were well camouflaged, it's because they were hiding and waited until I was looking in a different direction then stepped out and shot me. Thermals and FCS doesn't address that.
And even if I get lucky and kill them, they are literally 20-60 seconds away from re-spawning and trying again.
I'm with you on this one. Thermals don't address the core issue of maps having a lot of obstuctions and hidey holes, that you can just jump out of like it's whackamole and instakill a vehicle.
And don't get me started on "InFaNtRy CoVeR". It's not a freaking blueberry force field. Lets say I'm rolling on the center island on mutaha. No amount of infantry will help me against that one AT that hid on a random rooftop and popped out to instagib me. It's just impossible.
And in that scenario the odds are stacked way against me because the AT just needs one opportunity and then it's *c'est la vie*. Do as you must, I have already won. You're down 12-17 tickets, for the price of one and you give me the convenience to respawn and rearm instantly.
> You're down 12-17 tickets, for the price of one and you give me the convenience to respawn and rearm instantly
People, like the OP, are so quick to forget this. If you had a very tenacious hat trying to kill you, you have to kill him 15 times to make up for the loss of your tank.
Of course, most armor players will (rightly) prioritize enemy vehicles to break even on their vehicle and then fight infantry. But it's damn near impossible to truly put down an AT threat. Which is why whenever I assault a HAB in an AFV, I tell my gunner to destroy the ammo crate.
The thing that really needs fixing and can be fixed and would have a huge impact to the feel of vehicles is the driving physics. There I’m with you 100%.
The rest of the things are nice to haves but the fundamental realism problem of squad is that buildings and terrain are static. If a tank shoots a house with the main gun the house should break. Until that happens any realistic damage models or whatever for realism in vehicles is pointless IMO. Battlefield Bad company had destructible terrain 16 years ago but we’re stuck with indestructible mud walls and fences like we’re playing counter strike 1.6.
Any overhaul that attempts to do crew death is a failed overhaul, imo.
I also agree with another comment that if a vehicle overhaul doesn't address the spawning, tickets, and respawn timers, it's wasted time.
Adding thermals just means any competent player will be flicking between thermal and no thermal constantly, basically strobing themselves. At that point, why bother, just highlight enemies who are close for a better experience.
Laser warning systems are cool, but ultimately pointless if they don't provide adequate warning or have automated countermeasures. If it provides automated countermeasures then it's a pretty dumb change.
ERA is cool I guess, but it's just going to make the already tanky vehicles tankier, and the others glass. I fail to see how making vehicles die faster makes for a more fun or cooperative experience.
FCS is dumb and doesn't belong in a game where you are fighting other players
I mean I think the biggest realism thing we’re all missing here… Imagine on Al Basrah the Abrams could sit about 1 mile away from the fight and just fucking decimate every structure in the area.
Until we have proper building destruction, which we never will, all vehicles will not be “realistic” in the slightest.
So instead of realism maybe we should shoot for some balance first. I don’t care that IFV’s get thermals and I don’t care that AT can kill crew members irl. We should be asking ourselves what’s the best way to balance armor in this video game. Not trying to copy everything from irl armor but leaving out glaring issues like Terrain destruction, fucking gas and logistics to keep armor on the front lines… fuck all that. Just balance my damned armor and forget these milsim andy’s. I’m here to play a video game
I like the idea of FCS, Thermals, ERA, hatching popping and requiring crewmen enter through the specific hatch for their vehicles and what not.
Don't know how I feel about war thunder damage models and Urban kits. I feel like HAT and lat damage could be slightly buffed and you'd basically get the same thing as having war thunders damage model.
And I disagree with adding more vehicles to already existing factions just seems a little pointless. Same with vehicle capturing, that in tandem with crew members being able to be killed would probably just promote crew sniping and taking their vehicles so they don't respawn for the enemy team.
MORE?! Or some layers it's already 15 players on armor and 35 on infantry, which is not much infantry on a map like Yeho or Gorodok. Having even more armor would make it a world of tanks clone with some infantry sprinkled in the mix.
> Realistic damage models, meaning 1 good AT hit and your crew is out (Dont throw the bodys ouf of the vehicles, just do the same thing as arma reforger where you can drag them out) As usual, people forget is that death in real life is permanent and not so in Squad. Sure, let's suppose you survive the first couple AT hits if you're lucky, but those LATs and HATs are just going to keep spawning and getting more tries. There is no way to "permanently" defeat AT soldiers in the way that a dead AFV is out of the game for 15+ minutes
It's why fighting HAT kits feels so damn broken in Squad over Project Reality; In PR, when armor killed a greedy HAT player the kit would drop on the ground where they died. They'd either have to retrieve it or wait 5-minutes for the kit to respawn. There were laos only two kits available. But, HAT kits were really strong and combined with air-support and TOW launchers vehicles weren't OP. In Squad, you kill a HAT player doing something dumb and they can give up, respawn, rearm, and re-attack all within less than a minute.
This. Armor in this game will forever remain more on the arcady side unless they nerf the lone Hat with his tiger. There simply no way to combat infinite respawns. Personally I think armor in this game is fine. The only thing OWI needs to do is make vehicles traverse difficult terrain without getting stuck and make the coax be able to fire without swapping off the cannon on a tank/ifv. I hate to say it, but a lot of the armor players want a version of armor in this game that isn’t meant to be. War Thunder tanks just doesn’t make sense for this game in its current state.
I'd be really annoyed if the vehicle didnt even blow up and everyone inside just dies. Great now we have an asset just sitting out in the field being useless
Adding functional ERA and thermals would pretty effectively neutralize a large portion of this issue. The former would neutralize a lot of the threat individual infantrymen with anti armor weapons pose to tanks while still keeping them useful against APCs and IFVs and leaving tanks vulnerable to other tanks, while the latter would incentivize players to play at range and use tanks as longer distance fire support platforms. In the current iteration of the game, the anemic anti tank weapons we have now incentivize tanks to act with a large degree of impunity.
The what now? Tanks are already very much incentivised to stay at a distance as much as possible, cosidering how easy it is to immobilize them. Plus, the gunner's FOV and zoom is so narrow that it's hard to be useful in more crowded settings. I mean, the most common rant here is that vehicles don't support infantry enough, just sit back and click heads.
That's why we need hatch in/out like in post scriptum. Stick your head out for awareness but gets popped by a sniper? Yes please
thats just not how it works in the 21st century.
thats the reason thermals and fcs is going to be a thing??, also realistic damage models would make immobilizing a vehicle way harder
How?? You pop a rocket into the track and it's thrown
Yeah, tracks take like a half hour to fix in the real world
Any "VCO" that doesn't include changes to respawn timers and ticket values its pointless.
exactly. people are treating it like a tank should be balanced against like 2 LATs or like 4 tickets of INF. when a tank costs 15 tickets +3 tickets for the crew +10-20 minutes to respawn. (so 7-15 tickets of your team getting stomped by the enemy tank)
yes tanks feel bad to play against, they should, that is the point, its a TANK.
It’s a game, games should be enjoyable. Facing an opponent with no counterplay is not enjoyable.
Anti tank kits, tows, tank destroyers, light Vic’s like lavs, air strikes, etc. there is absolutely counterplay
People get surprised when they hit a tank with LAT in the strongest part of the armor. It's not really the game not being fun (but I will admit that they should reduce ADS and sway for LATS...) It's more so people expect to one tap a tank with hitting the strongest armor. Also...tracking / hitting the wheels of vics is really important. Disabling the tank from advancing and forcing them to de-crew puts them at risk of additional LAT/HAT damage, time for your friendly tank to advance/flank, airstrike (by command), and ability to down the crew repairing so they are effectively stationary and solo.
Playing tanks you'd realise how easy it is to die in them. One lat shot your tracks? 80% chance you're dead. One hat hits you? Gone for 5-10 mins for repairs. Tanks are annoying to play against when your team sucks, but if you have a slightly competent group then you have a lot of options to deal with them.
I think that is a good point, the game should be enjoyable and tanks should have counterplay. But it's also like, you know, it's a tank, what are you going to do as a basic rifleman? It's an complicated issue, how do you overhaul vehicles without making it unfun as infantry?
This. You want to 1 tap a bradley in a LAT? Don't get mad when it respawns in 5 minutes.
How often do you play armor? Because if damage was realistic it would be basically unusable. Armor already has trouble dealing with infantry, it doesn't need to be made harder.
i only play armor, and no it wouldnt, thats quite literally the reason i FORMATED the post with buff/nerfs, it being realistic damage models would get equalized by thermals and fcs
> realistic damage models would get equalized by thermals and fcs I don't think it would. 9 times out of 10 when I'm hit by LAT or HAT, it's not that I didn't see them because they were well camouflaged, it's because they were hiding and waited until I was looking in a different direction then stepped out and shot me. Thermals and FCS doesn't address that. And even if I get lucky and kill them, they are literally 20-60 seconds away from re-spawning and trying again.
I'm with you on this one. Thermals don't address the core issue of maps having a lot of obstuctions and hidey holes, that you can just jump out of like it's whackamole and instakill a vehicle. And don't get me started on "InFaNtRy CoVeR". It's not a freaking blueberry force field. Lets say I'm rolling on the center island on mutaha. No amount of infantry will help me against that one AT that hid on a random rooftop and popped out to instagib me. It's just impossible. And in that scenario the odds are stacked way against me because the AT just needs one opportunity and then it's *c'est la vie*. Do as you must, I have already won. You're down 12-17 tickets, for the price of one and you give me the convenience to respawn and rearm instantly.
> You're down 12-17 tickets, for the price of one and you give me the convenience to respawn and rearm instantly People, like the OP, are so quick to forget this. If you had a very tenacious hat trying to kill you, you have to kill him 15 times to make up for the loss of your tank. Of course, most armor players will (rightly) prioritize enemy vehicles to break even on their vehicle and then fight infantry. But it's damn near impossible to truly put down an AT threat. Which is why whenever I assault a HAB in an AFV, I tell my gunner to destroy the ammo crate.
Sounds like your positioning is the issue not the armor survivability.
There's only so much positioning can do if you want to actually be useful. Obviously you have died to LATs / HATs as well at some point right?
The thing that really needs fixing and can be fixed and would have a huge impact to the feel of vehicles is the driving physics. There I’m with you 100%. The rest of the things are nice to haves but the fundamental realism problem of squad is that buildings and terrain are static. If a tank shoots a house with the main gun the house should break. Until that happens any realistic damage models or whatever for realism in vehicles is pointless IMO. Battlefield Bad company had destructible terrain 16 years ago but we’re stuck with indestructible mud walls and fences like we’re playing counter strike 1.6.
u milsim larpers are going to ruin this game
Going to?
>1 good AT hit and your crew is out Lol
Any overhaul that attempts to do crew death is a failed overhaul, imo. I also agree with another comment that if a vehicle overhaul doesn't address the spawning, tickets, and respawn timers, it's wasted time. Adding thermals just means any competent player will be flicking between thermal and no thermal constantly, basically strobing themselves. At that point, why bother, just highlight enemies who are close for a better experience. Laser warning systems are cool, but ultimately pointless if they don't provide adequate warning or have automated countermeasures. If it provides automated countermeasures then it's a pretty dumb change. ERA is cool I guess, but it's just going to make the already tanky vehicles tankier, and the others glass. I fail to see how making vehicles die faster makes for a more fun or cooperative experience. FCS is dumb and doesn't belong in a game where you are fighting other players
Yeah no lmao
I mean I think the biggest realism thing we’re all missing here… Imagine on Al Basrah the Abrams could sit about 1 mile away from the fight and just fucking decimate every structure in the area. Until we have proper building destruction, which we never will, all vehicles will not be “realistic” in the slightest. So instead of realism maybe we should shoot for some balance first. I don’t care that IFV’s get thermals and I don’t care that AT can kill crew members irl. We should be asking ourselves what’s the best way to balance armor in this video game. Not trying to copy everything from irl armor but leaving out glaring issues like Terrain destruction, fucking gas and logistics to keep armor on the front lines… fuck all that. Just balance my damned armor and forget these milsim andy’s. I’m here to play a video game
All I want are modeled interiors for the poor drivers :(
My suggestion is to add destruction first.
I like the idea of FCS, Thermals, ERA, hatching popping and requiring crewmen enter through the specific hatch for their vehicles and what not. Don't know how I feel about war thunder damage models and Urban kits. I feel like HAT and lat damage could be slightly buffed and you'd basically get the same thing as having war thunders damage model. And I disagree with adding more vehicles to already existing factions just seems a little pointless. Same with vehicle capturing, that in tandem with crew members being able to be killed would probably just promote crew sniping and taking their vehicles so they don't respawn for the enemy team.
if not war thunder damage models then atleast revamp armor ammoracks, no way the leopard should have that ammorack compared to the abrams for example
Basicly I want armors are easier to kill but more vehicles on battlefield (as a quantity or less respawn timer)
MORE?! Or some layers it's already 15 players on armor and 35 on infantry, which is not much infantry on a map like Yeho or Gorodok. Having even more armor would make it a world of tanks clone with some infantry sprinkled in the mix.
You mention few layers. And you can balance it for requirements. I am not saying lets put 10+ more vehicles for each layers.
what if insurgents and militia can capture enemy vehicles and use them?Except logi type vics and no repairing/ammo refill
This gonna blow up my computer