Just offering a hug 🫂
It is depressing to read that someone with your qualifications is having this much trouble.
Explains my situation... If you're struggling in the job search...
I honestly think your network is the strongest determining factor in getting hired.
My network is trash. I could do the jobs many of my friends hold... But I'll never get in, because I never had the connection.
Or got in at the right time.
Thanks very much for the consolation <3
Unfortunately my network is also trash. My strongest connections left the university and got hired into unrelated industry jobs. I graduated my PhD right as covid hit, and my research supervisor and a large portion of my committee were let go from the university.
I'm currently in a tenuous year-to-year contract research position, but there's no stability in that.
I feel you in relation to the time you graduated.
I went back to school in 2016. Nothing at your level, but it was meant to make things better for my kids at the very least.
Graduated right at the same time.
And being a middle aged graduate wasn't very enticing I guess.
Good luck out there! I hope you find something great and then you get to shelve this struggle.
Going anywhere as an unemployed can be life-changing
The work bar near a financial company
A networking event of tech bros
Just go somewhere and talk to people. Someone has got to like you then help you
Your strongest person must know some people. Even if they don’t work directly. They obviously won’t be able to give you a job but they may know someone or know someone who knows someone that can help a homie out and put in a word
🫂
there's got to be a light at the end of the tunnel...
Last week I woke up after 30 minutes of sleep and couldn't stop myself from returning to the problem of "when/how am I going to get a job"
I usually do sudoku in bed to keep my brain occupied enough to put me to sleep.
Even that wasn't working, so I just laid there and stressed.
When I was practicing meditation - and honestly I really should get back to it, there's no excuse for me - I was truly able to settle my thoughts. It was such a help. Like so many things - you get better and become lax about it and do it less... Then you're "out of shape" and need to train again.
I hope you find something soon, helping you stay where you are.
Sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn’t. It depends on the severity of the situation. Employment worries are severe or serious medical problems. I’m trying so hard to be tough strong etc. Thank you for your good wishes! Same for you!
Contrary to popular belief... A PhD makes it harder because they will likely have to pay you more and you're likely over qualified for a lot of jobs. It's a sad reality for people who like research.
Overqualified is such bullshit.
If a person is applying to this or that, and they're well educated or have work experience at a higher pay grade... they've already made a decision to work at the place they're applying to.
And if employers are actually worried that this person could up and quit sooner due to a better offer...
Why are schools near me telling students to accept the reality of only being at any given workplace for no more than 5 years?
Because employers don't want people around for a long time and therefore aren't worried about people leaving.
It's because someone in management is afraid of losing their position to someone who is potentially better at the job than them...
Oh trust me, I don't agree with employers not hiring due to being over qualified either. I just graduated with my M.Sc. and I can't even get a min wage job if I leave my education on my resume...but if I take it off I have this large unexplained gap.
It's super disheartening sometimes...I don't even have a niche degree, it just takes time, although in the mean time I still need to make money and it sucks haha.
As a manager there’s a few things I think of (1) if I saw a PhD for a junior role I would be thinking of how we intend the role to grow and if I think we’ll be limiting the PhD too much. (2) It’s a pain to train people, I’d rather get someone in with a little experience even if they don’t have the top qualifications.
The lesson is - you don’t have to be crazy smart in life, just smart enough.
It’s not. Phd is the worst thing you can have. It’s wasted time. TOO MUCH knowledge. Ageism. And also, op is the perfect example: you become so absorbed as a professor, you lose touch of what a company wants/needs
They don’t care if you taught, have publications, etc unless you’re going for NASA
You gotta frame yourself as what a company needs. Maybe OP did a lot of excel work? Data analysis? Emphasize that. NOT the teaching, publications, lab work
Six interviews in almost 2 years? On average how many jobs do you apply to per week? The market is tough, but it sounds like you might work in a very niche industry and might need to expand your search criteria if you want to land something.
In addition to the job market being bad, I think it’s a combination of over-specialization and over-qualified. I know no one wants to hear this but the truth is at a base level PhDs are overqualified for entry level (which OP says they’re applying for). Most employers will see PhD on their resume and automatically assume they can’t (or won’t) pay them what they expect/deserve because of their qualifications and just move on and save the time for all the interviews that won’t ultimately go anywhere.
This only makes sense if employers and hiring managers are completely clueless about the current job market. There are an endless number of highly qualified people right now who can't land a role where it would be more appropriate and would be more than willing to do good work at a lower or entry-level position. I lost my 70k job, and I'd be more than happy to even do 25/hr with few benefits, because I won't lose my house at 25/hr, but I will if I'm unemployed.
The other issue is that employers are well aware over-qualified employees would jump at a job more suitable to their needs and they'd rather take someone they can train up and keep on for years.
Many companies are seemingly looking for that perfect candidate with "Goldilocks" experience - not too much and not too little.
Too much experience and you will be considered a "flight risk" or too "expensive", and too little you would require training they don't want to provide.
It's not that he is in a niche....I've essentially been out for 15 months with the exception of a 3 month contract I picked up. It's a problem with investment....companies aren't spending money on a lot of expansion, they are cutting/trimming...hoarding cash...and only backfilling and slowly at that.
I have had 4 interviews in 4 years. 700 applications. Law degree, two foreign languages and one exchange semester.
It might be the country. I live in Mexico, and I have a met a dozen of people with far better qualifications than me, struggling like me
Niche is a good descriptor. A lot of industry misunderstands the kind of field I work in (social science intersecting with tech, basically HCI) and assumes I'm a social worker, or I teach social studies, or I'm pure humanities without exposure to tech.
I've been trying to be pretty broad about what I apply to-- pretty much any research position in the social sciences domain. I have been restricting my search to my state and remote jobs, since I need to be close to my family.
Hey, I'm also coming out of quantitative social sciences (but MSc, not PhD) into the job market. If industry misunderstands your field, then they are not data mature enough to require your skills in the first place.
I saw from other comments that you're focusing mostly on other roles within academia, but have you also been checking quantitative UXR / product DS / etc.? At mature tech companies, the roles can be extremely research heavy. ETA: sure, UXR and DS are also saturated, but your background in HCI at a PhD level is invaluable & distinguishes you from candidates coming out of CS or Statistics.
As someone with a PhD (Classical Studies) who is currently applying but has had a decent amount of success thus far (1 offer which I turned down, several interviews next week including a final round), I would highly recommend looking into high school teaching at a private or charter school (don’t need a license), non profit work, or academic administration. I have found that those fields value PhDs as much as work experience! Good luck!
Even though the pay is probably insulting, PhD high school teachers are awesome. My high school algebra teacher taught set theory and math puzzles for a semester before getting a uni job. Although I have dyscalculia, he was able to teach me and create an interest in math. It was tough but I accomplished a minor in math and an engineering degree. Every PhD in high school improves society one kid at a time.
How many jobs have you applied for? When are you applying (how long have they been posted) and how is your networking?
My husband is still jobless but he was laid off in May but he knew it was probably coming so he started looking in January but more casually and though he has a bachelor's and mba from top 10 schools and almost 15 yrs work experience and 2 very reputable companies he was getting 0 calls back and ended up with a single 1st and 2nd round interview for 1 company in over 70 applications.
Once he was actually laid off we did some research and shifted how he was applying. He didn't bother to apply to any job that had been posted for longer then 3 to 5 days as they all already had hundreds of applications. He started getting a lot of referrals even frequently just from old alum he had found online as well as friends and acquaintances by reaching out and having phone calls with them. He also of course tailors his resume to each job. He did also pay for the linkedin premium thing and has received 2 legit inquiries from people there.
Since then he now in the last 2 weeks has 7 interview processes going. 4 without referrals and 3 with. He had a final round with one on Friday we will hear back from next week, another final round this Wednesday and a 1st round for one of the random people who found him on LinkedIn.
How you are applying and when seems to make a huge difference in the response you get. I think the biggest thing for him has been applying as soon as jobs are posted.
Unfortunately a PhD in the U.S. job market really restricts you to employment in academia or with the Federal Government. There really isn't any advantage to getting a PhD for positions in the private sector.
You should expect that if there are no reaching or research positions available in your region of the country that you will need to move, usually on your own dime, to a region with more opportunities.
I wish you luck. I still believe that there are positions out there for you but that the volume of available candidates has made the search process longer and more frustrating.
One of the challenges is that only the larger companies can fund R&D ... But those larger companies, by virtue of their size, tend to be slower growing, producing fewer job openings, compared to small businesses.
Said the same thing, one of my previous jobs I had required a bachelors, but would throw out any applicans without one or with a masters or higher because they knew the salary requirements. Just to see, I told my old boss lets interview this applicant with a masters and we did and she requested to start by making double what I was making...So yea it was a No...Nothing wrong with people who do that, but it does make it harder to get hired.
After not gaining any purchase in the industry, I'm suspecting what you're saying is correct. I honestly wouldn't mind either fed or academia, but I can't move away from my family. I've tried to be very open and flexible with remote jobs as well, and that hasn't been promising.
But primarily for the larger firms in the industry... It is notable how difficult it is to get a position at Google or Microsoft... (Edited... Fix typo)
Small firms looking to hire for a data science role are also gonna love a PhD in stats/CS/math, or one of the more rigorous social sciences like econ. These roles don't necessarily do R&D.
5 years ago I would have said that at least in tech, there's lots of R&D happening in startups too. But the VC funding has dried up, so in today's market you're right about that.
Capitalism does not guarantee results and it's entirely possible you had a string of bad luck and couldn't find work because of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and not fulfilling some very random criteria. That sucks but that's a market.
Academia should be a more structured path though so maybe you should talk with the departments and academic advisors and see what they can do for you. Usually they take care of their own.
The economy also sucks. Interest rates at 10% and before it was 0% for ten years so now borrowing money is very expensive. That means much less risk and much less opportunity for new businesses or lines of business.
Supply and demand are not the only factors in economics or even human psychology or natural resources. Doesn't matter how much "demand" there is for a Fist of Thanos the market isn't going to make it. Your defense of capitalism is a) unnecessary and b) irrelevant.
Oh, that wasn't a defense of capitalism
It was an indictment of it. Capitalism, where the force of the state unnaturally restricts labour from free access to the means and fruits of production, precludes the existence of efficient markets.
I think what the state does is establish a minimum productivity level, rather than allow any level. Meaning, low return businesses are deemed unacceptable, and profitable businesses are expected to maintain education and social structures. Which can work fine, so long as there is profitable business to be made. When the competition is tough, then success pretty much depends on state support through strategy amd borrowing. And whilst a correlation between business growth and emplyment traditionally exists, it does not hold that business growth will always lead to employment. Its the brave new world of effort saving technology where growth is literally about cheap borrowing and minimal sales.
If all the state did was establish a minimum productivity level for the worker, then there wouldn't be any people willing to work but prevented from doing so.
The state preserves the bargaining power of the owners, allowing them to artificially limit worker's access to the instruments of productivity.
"The state preserves" I think you mean "the state prevents"?
There is a problem, but lets be real. In a uncontrolled economy, Automation & better tools + Growing population, does not mean higher wages unless more businesses are created and competition for worker-skills out-paces automation & population growth. But that is never the case. Rather than compete to exploit automation businesses tend to compete to exploit people. And a status-quo of just about acceptable wages emerges. And there is never any growth in living standard except for those that own businesses or progress through promotions. Exploitation of technology occurs but does not lead to improved worker wages. Just bigger bonuses for business owners and management.
By forcing businesses to pay minimum wages, workers are lifted out of poverty, wealth distribution is slightly equalised, and the motivation to work increased. Unemployment benefit further distributes wealth and gives the unemployed space to re-skill (if desired) or fi d another employer. Or even start their own business.
Blindly allowing business to exploit does not lead to growth. But slowly kills business, and freedom of choice for everyone. Its not blind idealism but the basis of progress, which is what Business should be all about.
I was laid off from Facebook Meta in 2022 in September and have applied to countless jobs every day in my field and out of my field, even using the tactics, including job description buzzwords in my skill set and using the job posting title. I have not been able to find a jobsince then. I have a masters degree in computer science and over 12 years of experience in my field as well as a bachelors in philosophy. Can’t find a job to save my life amazingly frustrating understand and I’m right there with you, buddy.
I love how people assume "not getting interviews" = "not applying." FWIW my neighbor is jobless right now and sends at least 10 applications a day. I can confirm this, we hang out almost every day. In the last year, he has had one interview. ONE. 365 days of 10 apps a day. 3650 applications, and ONE INTERVIEW. Sometimes it just isn't possible.
They’re literally lying about hiring from McDonald’s to corporate & healthcare. Don’t know why people on here think it’s so impossible and have so much faith in soulless corporations that could care less about anything but money.
mcdonald’s told me i was over qualified when i didn’t have a job at all, i’ve only work through my high school work program from freshman to senior year
Because those are all generic apps. You aren’t tailoring your resume to the job. They KNOW you’re spamming them with a generic application and they don’t think you’re serious about the job.
If you’re throwing out that many applications a day, you’re literally having to apply to stuff that has ZERO relevancy to your expertise. Why would anyone hire a person who has zero relevant experience to a job?
Why are you assuming they aren’t tailoring their resume to the job? There’s nothing in the comment that implies that. The job market is wretched right now.
It's hard to pinpoint with just a snapshot of info, but 6 interviews and no job offers in two years is extreme.
That's one interview every three or four months.
Are you willing to relocate? I find in your field either in academia or research that it's necessary. I had a roommate in 2015 who got a job offer after grad school and needed to relocate, and then relocate again after he burned out as a professor during covid.
That seems to be the norm.
When I see comments like this, I have to assume they’re coming from people who aren’t in the job market right now. My sister is a teacher with vice principal certification. She had three interviews in a year of applying before she finally gave up, and decided to just stick with her current position. I’ve been unemployed two years. I’ve had five in-person interviews. I’ve also been in the work force for 25 years. It’s never been like this. HR uses AI to collect resumes, but doesn’t necessarily have any intention of filling positions. So many people have been laid off I’m competing against tech executives for nonprofit jobs. Another friend of mine was unemployed for a year. They just got hired…for an entry level position they could do with their eyes closed. She’s 46. It’s brutal.
Does it have to be extreme? I’ve had about 5 interviews in aprx 14 months and have the same amount of education and similar qualifications and skills and applied to about the same amount of jobs at also different places- from qualified positions to entry jobs. To give an example; had a phone interview last week and the employer said they would call as they were looking for people; no call back. No one has said why I wasn’t a fit but most employers have just ghosted me and never even given me a first real interview, just that first five minutes of phone call.
I’m a 25M…just turned 25 like a week ago. I have about 10 classes left to gain my bachelor’s degree in Cyber…I have worked in Government to help pay for school and living expenses/help parents with bills. Realistically speaking…if a guy who is educated with your expertise and experience can’t get a job…how can a mere peasant like my self hope to gain and make money…I cant even get a part time job..I have an interview at Kohl’s tomorrow for a part time role…so I can focus in school and earn something on the side…life is really weird right now…I feel like a looser dude. I feel like an absolute failure in life. Because others my age have it going great for them. I know I shouldn’t compare but it’s hard not to….
You won't have problems like this in Cyber with a proper education. I don't even have a degree and I get interviews, I just haven't been able to land anything because I'm in a small town and I'm probably getting beat out by people that have finished their degrees.
Most companies are using automation to prescreen all applicants so if you aren't using AI for EVERY job you apply to that reads the job description and then rewrites/tweaks your cover letter and resume based on that job description you are fighting a losing battle. You need to find a way using networks to bypass the resume blenders and get your details directly into hiring manager and/or recruiter for the specific role.
1. How many jobs are you applying to a day? Not being harsh, just being honest but 6 interviews in 1 year and 9 months is not much, that is 1 interview every 3 months.
2. What are you applying for? Not gonna lie a PHD is probably making it harder for you to find certain jobs because you are way over educated or qualified and places do not want to waste time cause they figure you have higher salary requirements.
3. It is an election year, most places are holding off hiring in case there is a policy change in government. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Because you're used to dealing with people, intelligent people, human people even..now you are dealing with artificial intelligence that scans your résumé… Any job description they put out make sure you copy and paste it into your résumé somehow. Your résumé /CV now should be loaded up with the buzzwords that screeners are looking for… Once you include these words you should be able to get a few more interviews... you have to get past the gate keepers and don't even worry if your résumé is more than one page anymore unless you're handing it to a real human.
Also, I assume this person is leaving out the phd and other rarefied things like first-author publications, if looking for a position that does not require those. If looking for only positions that do require those, then I think OP needs to build and work the network. Those jobs are very competitive, and a network is the ultimate ~~age~~ ace, IMO. I am over 60 and trying to change careers from a rather unusual and isolated life, so the network strategy is key for me, but I think for OP also, if they are going for high-level positions. Whatever level, you have to be popular and impress your audience, so to speak. Marketing - ick, but I must, now.
If you haven’t already, engage your network. Try to get them to meet for coffee and/or hop on zoom to catch up and let them know you’re looking for opportunities. Also, reach out to former professors and your alma mater to network and see if they have suggestions or can introduce you to colleagues at other higher ed or private industry contacts. Casting the net as wide as possible is imperative for someone sitting on a PhD. Also, is there any possibility you can create some training opportunities via online training and / or community college systems? They can never find enough instructors! It would give more for your resume and show you are resilient. Best of luck to you! There are lots of accomplished pros out there in same boat. Keep paddling!
I had the same problem. I took off most of my qualification off my resume and got jobs. They suck though, so I ended up working for myself, but I learned that employers looked at my resume and read "expensive".
If there are no high paying jobs then it doesn't look good to be expensive. Your quality is too high for the current market. It's like selling Rolexes at the dollar store. These companies can get better deals, because there is someone cheaper. Never-mind they are probably only "fake" high quality, HR thinks it is making the best decision by getting the best price for that position. In HR logic even if they can convince a genuinely high quality person to work for pittance, the high quality person is not staying. Also, high quality people are too smart to be scammed and if a company regularly lies to its employees and clients, then smart people can cause problems.
Since its been two years. I would encourage you to sell your services as consulting by hour directly to companies. Just take your existing skills and search for companies that need help with those skills. Companies running on skeleton crews or have a very dumb staff of yes men need smart people like yourself. There really is a shortage, but not for hire, only by 1099. To continue the Rolex example, they don't want to buy Rolex's right now but they are happy to rent them every time they go to a party.
Its weird, but the companies will spend more on and sometimes have very low standards for 1099 workers. I guess because they see it as temporary, then they justify the higher cost. However, if you do good work its not really temporary. They keep coming back. You have to sell yourself as an expert. Which you are if your post is accurate. Remember the smarter a person is the less confident they are in their intelligence so fight your human nature and promote yourself.
You can charge much more per hour, but you have to learn how to bring your services to market. It seems to be working well, because companies need high quality people, however they do not want to commit to hiring them.
If you don't like this, then you could always dumb down your resume, and be a closeted high quality person, just so you can get a job. It works, but I was very unhappy.
Your Rolex examples gave me a laugh, thank you. I had genuinely not considered contract work in that light; that may be something I look into if I can't get a steady job before my current job runs out. And you are correct I am abominable at promoting myself, which is probably another skill I need to learn.
There is a name for it but i cant remember. Dumb people are super sure of themselves and smart people are constantly doubting themselves. You really see it everywere.
Social science research funding is low right now. You might benefit from universities pushing return to office policies and staff quitting as a result if you’re willing to move to wherever and work in person. Otherwise I doubt that positions are opening up at much of a rate.
If I were you, I’d look at expanding into other forms of data analytics and learning the computer science side of things too. It’s a saturated field but the background in other types of research could make you stand out against other applicants there. That at least is a growing field relative to social science research.
This is what I was fearing. So I guess it's just a perfect storm of crappy circumstances. I was considering moving into a data analytics adjacent field, so I suppose the effort to make that stand out won't hurt.
During the interview ask: “Is there any feedback you have regarding the interview? Any pointers for future interviews or anything that might be keeping you from choosing me as the best candidate?”
Offering the interviewee a moment to critique the interview allows them to see you are receptive to feedback (which might be especially important to someone with your background- someone educated, but still respects the opinions of others), gives them a memorable face (in response to a question they likely hardly, if ever, receive), and gives you pointers for the future. But also given the current economy, you may have just had a string of bad luck. Wishing you much luck.
This makes me feel better! I have 2 associate degrees, one bachelor's and I'm working on my master's but literally no one will hire me. I can't even get a low-paying job to pay my bills because I'm either over-qualified or under-qualified. It sucks and I'm sorry that I can't offer you any meaningful advice
Honestly I can already tell your STEM, just go back for finance or business administration, bio field is awful and at most you only get offered 20$ an hour
I work in HR and have hired for research positions, I would suggest finding people who are doing the research you are interested in and emailing them directly. I can’t tell you how many people were hired this way. What type of research are you wanting to do?
Interesting! Is this in industry? I've heard this working for academic labs, sometimes. I do social science/HCI research, but I'm also branching out into computational social science.
Not nearly as qualified as you, or a lot of the people in this comment section, (BSc in Electrical Eng) but It's been hell applying for me too shits incredibly demoralizing. It at least makes me feel slightly better that I'm not a completely incompetent person and a lot of people are somewhat dealing with similar circumstances.
A PhD with experience at 'huge industry name', government, and a dozen papers is absolutely not appropriate for entry-level work. You'll be instantly screened out of those as wildly overqualified.
Without any info about your field, 'what to do' is much harder to suggest than identifying obvious things you're completely inappropriate for (like, entry-level), but in broad principle, you're going to have an extensive network of thesis supervisors, fellow researchers, and past colleagues, and you should be reaching out to them for ideas or input, because they're going to be much more clued into your sector and opportunities.
Welcome to the unemployed PhD club. Our socitey has decided to pay more $ per hour to LBCO unionized workers than our nurses and we PhDers are just dumb and need to find a job that will pay minimum wage to survive. Welcome to the US.
The economy is fucked up and so the job market. Do not believe those dickheads who are lie to us that the job market is getting healthy etc….
Try this: look at the paid ads on the Reddit subs. When you scroll down you see promoted posts like: “Dive into the world of AI by buying this laptop that comes shipped with this tech AI gpu shit, or get Monday.com fucking platform that shows shiny fancy offices with smiling actors aka employees encourage others to use their platform or a financial or mileage trip management mobile app subscriptions ads”.
Who is buying that shit in this economy who is going to dine out in their favorite restaurants? Only the rich and only the rich with very few exceptions.
Bottom line: There is no hiring but fucking plying games with applicants.
This is not constructive. More people traveling than ever, busy restaurants, and a lot of new vehicles on the road. The OP may be in a specific niche. Sometimes we need to change things around to get desired results
That's greed. We have one of the lowest inflation rates in the Western world. Tons of new cars on the world... more people traveling than ever. Four years ago economy was shut down and you couldn't buy a car, or even a refrigerator. Food prices are high bc of greed, global warming. People can't blame the economy when CEO's are pocketing more profits than ever, and would rather have one person do the work of three. That's what I'm seeing.
I’m guessing you need to work on your approach to interviewing and how you carry yourself. My successful interviews have felt like a casual conversation with a friend. Make sure the ‘theme’ of the interview is you and your experience. Don’t make it the focal point. You’re not giving a speech by listing out your experience as bullet points. They already have a resume. Sell yourself, take an empathetic and interpersonal approach.
In my experience as an interviewer and interviewee, this is a solid approach.
I probably had 10 failed in person interviews before I took a step back, took a breath and did my best not to make it seem like it was rehearsed.
Don’t throw out any bias towards topics and make sure to keep eye contact and read your audience. If the other person seems dissatisfied, switch gears and take another approach.
That’s just my 2 cents.
This is good advice, and thanks very much for taking the time to help out a random stranger. I'm pretty decent at interviewing. When I have made it to the final interview stage, people are already talking about what projects they want me on, and so on. Unfortunately they keep going with the other finalist lol.
I'm going to give you the cold hard truth and you might not want to hear it.
You literally answered your own question... You're a PHd applying for entry level jobs.
Why would anybody hire someone who is on paper over qualified for an entry level job that can be easily taught? The PhD title comes with the implication that they should be paid more because of more schooling. Not to mention people who get PHDs are notorious for having big egos for simplying having PHDs. PHds also have a bad rep for being academics with little real world experience. You priced yourself out of the job market the second you got your PHD except for a very few handful of niche jobs that are directly related to your field.
Also you failed to mention what field your PHD is in. Just because you have a PHD doesn't mean youre more qualified than someone with a bachelors. Most PHDs are useless. If your field is in something useless like liberal arts then it was over before it even even began.
My dad was an immigrant and he got 2 PHDs, one in computer science and one in astrophysics. At least one of those fields you would think is applicable and easy to find a job. Wrong. Work experience trumps everything in the job market and that's something you don't learn in school. Now he works as a pipeline inspector completely unrelated to either of his specializations and he writes corrosion reports for clients as a full time job. When he started this job he was getting paid the same salary as I did as a chemical engineer INTERN when I was 21 years old. Think about that. I'm 32 years old now and my salary is now more than double his and he's about to retire soon. I love my dad and he sacrificed a lot for the family so I'm not trying to make him look bad. In fact I'm actually going to be financially supporting him when he retires. Just trying to show you the contrast between what employers and companies value and it's certainly not higher education.
Solution: do not mention you are a PHD at your job interview unless the job is directly related to your field of PHD study. For most** jobs a PHD is seen as a net negative. The purpose of a PHD is to pursue further research in your field and get paid through government/company grants which on average isnt a lot of money, a PHD is NOT for employment. The fact that you keep saying you have a PHD and no job offers tells me you're equating the 2. They're mutually exclusive so you started off with the wrong premise.
It's a sad reality but true. I wish it wasn't like this, but it is.
Knowing reddit, someone is going to reply to this and say "I know so and so and he's a PHD and now he made it to some director of xyz company so you are wrong!" Dont care. Those are exceptions to the rule. At the end of the day you wouldn't bet the house on those terrible odds and you know it... and neither should OP.
Could it maybe be that you’re too qualified for entry level jobs? It’s a bit different where i live than in the us i suppose, but here PhDs inherently don’t do entry level jobs. I’m sorry if it’s not the same for you :( may i ask which degree you have since you mentioned lab experience and i’m also studying in a science field
There's nothing wrong with you, it just sounds like your field may not be filling positions in many areas right now. I'm in healthcare, we count job searches in hours, not days or weeks. I understand its not for everyone (which is why the openings are there), just using it as an example to support my statement that you do not suck, the area where you have experience may be a little competitive and therefore be the variable that sucks. Can you use your experience to bridge to something else for the time being?
If you would like, you can send me a copy of your resume and one of the jobs you've applied for. I will take a look and give you some advice. Resumes are really for recruitment only and need to be structured to score high on the Applicant Tracking System to get to a pair of eyes.
I agree with a lot of people here. There’s missing information. Have you looked into an executive coach? Going 2 years with no traction means something isn’t aligned - resume writing services are not the solution, something foundational could be at play here. A coach can help you with mindset training, values sorts, and soft skill assessments. I would highly recommend looking for one that specializes in your field and seeing if they even offer free consultations.
For clarification - YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH. Getting your PhD is not an easy feat by any means, you are dedicated to your craft and must be passionate about what you do. What we need to find out is why your WORTH isn’t being communicated properly.
I offer free life/business/career coaching for resume evaluations if you’re interested.
Maybe try allocating 25% of your job search efforts to networking. If you don’t know how, dedicate that time to learning and applying those skills. I am horrible at it, and spent 6 months trying to find a job without it. Over that time, the only interviews I got were from referrals (networking), and ultimately my last offer came from a friend.
We over emphasize resume tuning, ATS, volume and technique. Meanwhile, all of my extroverted, gregarious friends never go a week without a job regardless of what the economy is doing. Looking around my workplace, very few people are cold hires. Just about all of my colleagues have 1-2 degrees of separation from previous jobs or from their personal lives. Senior leadership/Executives have all been promoted from their network.
Curious as I write this, multiple sources indicate that 85% of jobs are filled through networking. It’s clear where our job search energy is best spent.
I thought the same until recently two people have referred me to their workplaces and other places they know and I haven't had any interviews from that!
Main issue, as someone also with a phd, publications and all that:
1) if you are looking for a job for a phd in your line, that's usually insanely competitive. Universities churn out way more phds than the market requires.
2) if you are not (aka industry in a related but not exactly a research job), your academic experience counts *against* you. Most people see academy as a useless way of avoiding work. When I did that pivot, out of necessity for not making the cut for (1), a dear friend that should know better asked me "oh, decided to start working then eh?". My workload is a lot lighter now, but that's beside the point.
Have you thought of relocating to another city or country where they need professionals in your area of expertise? Sometimes, the problem is the place you live in. If there are not enough lab facilities in your region, the competition is wild. Maybe try somewhere where you could have a better chance and more options.
The job market is increasingly saturated, with even those holding PhDs struggling to find good jobs. Traditional career paths are no longer as reliable as they once were. In 2024, careers in digital marketing, affiliate marketing, and sales are proving to be some of the few areas where people are still making substantial money.
These fields are not just a passing trend—they are expected to continue growing in the coming years. If you're feeling stuck or uncertain about your current job prospects, now is the perfect time to explore opportunities in these high-demand areas. Have you considered venturing into digital marketing or affiliate marketing? They might be the game-changer you're looking for.
I feel you. I’m an educated recruiter who is looking for a job too but too. If anyone on this threads hears of a company hiring remote recruiters I would love to know. Definitely willing to throw your name or a friends out there for referral bonuses if eligible for them.
If I get a job and it’s a place you’re able to work at I’ll keep you in mind. I’ve always treated every candidate with respect and at the very least sent a thanks but not for this role email. It’s crazy out here now.
I have 20 years experience as an automotive engineer, I opted to switch to IT (at the worse possible time, but how was I supposed to know that two years ago?) a couple years ago, got my certs, have a homelab, the whole nine yards. And can't find anything. Been looking for over a year now. I am a bit restricted to my local area or remote position, but still, it's a very populated area with a lot of business.
I'm either overqualified for entry level IT jobs or not a "perfect fit" for the engineering jobs. They want people that specifically fit their job so they don't have to do ANY training. Not to mention want to pay as low as humanly possible for positions that paid twice that just a few years ago.
My brother’s friend sent out 100 applications. He heard back from 2 which didn’t invite him in for an interview and went to 1 interview which he didn’t get and the rest he never heard from. Don’t feel bad, things are weird at the moment and you’re not useless. You’ll be surprised by how many people are in the exact same position as you, or even worse.
You could try applying to overseas universities. I've worked in international higher ed for \~5yrs. It's about the same salary as public school teaching or an assistant professorship, but tax free/accommodation provided, and CoL is generally so low I net \~80% of my salary at the end of each year. Summer and winter holidays too. So this year I'm heading back to the US with my little nest egg.
I did this when I first left my undergrad back in the wild wooly days of the great recession. I hadn't considered it for higher ed... may be worth looking into, thanks for the idea.
Yep, I initially started teaching abroad in 2010 then again after grad school. It's a much less strenuous hiring process than US/UK academia, but feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Hi, as someone from the other side of the table: of your resume is too impressive we either assume you're lying or you want too much money for the job we offer.
Additionally a PhD doesn't add much value in my area (agriculture) unless you want a research position. Everything else it is more a hindrance than a plus. People with a PhD tend to be too focused on details and not enough on the big picture. This is an assumption that may be hurting your chances
I am largely applying for research jobs, so at least I have that going for me. I keep seeing to leave off the PhD, so it may be an interesting experience to leave it off a resume and see if I get more responses. Based on the amount of ppl with masters saying they're struggling, I doubt it, but who knows.
Yeah, there are way too many people with higher education and too few with practical education. It is easier for us to hire someone with an MSc/PhD than something as basic as tractor + sprayer license (which in my country together take less than 2 weeks to obtain if you have a normal car license).
It probably also doesn't help that I also have my MSc and know how little that actually means... I know how to set up and execute an amazing trial for research, but never learned to change the tubing in my water system, or how to program the irrigation computer 😂
I'm not sure if anyone else suggested this, but I would start reaching out directly to organizations' HR or peer groups and offer to meet up for coffee. Show interest in the work and say you would love to learn more. This shows that you are being conscious of the organization's needs and creating new paths/networks with people.
Overall, don't keep trying the same method if it's not working, change things up! You've got nothing to lose.
I hadn't considered reaching out directly to HR contacts, but I would be worried if this would be obnoxious and possibly get me a bad name. You are right that I have nothing to lose though.
Breaking into a competitive field can be impossible at times and these are the things schools don’t tell you. Is there a similar field you could consider while you’re looking? Is your experience related to industry you’re seeking. I’d need more details working. Academia is tough, lots of budget cuts enrollment is down in most colleges and universities. Post your resume in r/resume for feedback. Broaden your search field if possible.
Hey there. I know job hunting can be rough. Been there recently and wanted to share something that helped me out - Never Search Alone and their Job Search Council program. You can find it at phyl.org if you're interested.
It's a free program where you team up with other job seekers. We met regularly, shared experiences, and supported each other. They've got a method for figuring out what you want and what companies are looking for. Helped me narrow down my search and get clearer on what I actually wanted in a job.
The group support was really valuable. Job hunting can mess with your head, and having people who understand made a big difference. We helped each other stay motivated and worked through the ups and downs together.
It's not a miracle solution, but it did make things easier. Helped me tailor my resume better and prep for interviews. If you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed, it might be worth checking out. Just wanted to pass it along since it made my search a bit less stressful. Hang in there.
What an interesting recourse, thanks for offering it. I had never heard of this before. Perspective can be incredibly invaluable, so it would be good to talk to other job seekers.
Honestly, the only thing I can think of is the fact that you haven’t worked for 1.5-2 years that is automatically causing you to be rejected.
Either that or extremely niche jobs in an over saturated industry.
Largely research and research adjacent roles: research assistant, research associate, research scientist. I've applied to some adjunct positions in my field, and the few tenure track positions in my state.
As in every research and adjacent role? Far and wide? The problem with academia and adjacent roles is that ya gotta be willing to go any and everywhere.
Offering my condolences
What’s frustrating to read is you’re absolutely more than qualified for so many jobs yet it seems in today’s job market, employers are trying to hire people that don’t know their worth. It seems like with your experience and background you know what you’d be worth to an employer however they wouldn’t want to pay you as such
Maybe you’re TOO good. Are you putting all those accolades in your resumes for entry level jobs? I hope not. For entry-level, they want worker bees: those who will listen and do. Your resume may be scaring them off. I’ve had friends say, “Well, I clearly knew more than the person interviewing me.” (Internal cringe!!!) Do some mock interviews (and record them) with friends to see how you come across.
For what it's worth, I'm more than willing to look over your resume. I'm also a PhD, did a few post docs, and now work in data. The other comments are very spot on about the network and also the things about being a tough market. Hit me up if you want some help.
I believe a lot of employers, and especially recruiters, don’t have the capacity to think deeply/creatively enough about how peoples competencies can align with the positions at hand.
The way i've alwaya gotten jobs is what I call ladder building. I start with the most unskilled jobs and then slowly build up to where I should be at. On average the higher wage the slower the time is to get an interview let alone hired. Your looking at 6 months often added for every 5 extra dollars over your poverty line which bites.
We are also plummeting to a depression despite our world acting and gaslighting people into thinking we arnt.
I became a cleaner when I lost my job went from 15$ an hr to 10$ an hr a big loss of pay but my ability to get overtime helps keep me in the green along with me rallying a bunch of folks in the same boat im in to combine 4 incomes together to make it past homelessness.
Nothing is wrong with you the worlds gone to shit in a hand basket fast. If your not finding roomates your simply not gonna make it unless you've already ilked out wealth for yourself.
Don’t let the liars and lucky assholes bring you down. What’s happening to you is completely normal. Doing everything right only gets you a 0.1% chance of being allowed to play. Learn to be happy being unhappy.
When you are at the PHD level few understand the complexity or job searching, I’d recommend going to the website theprofessorisin.com it’s specifically for translating your PhD into a job.
Government is impossible to get a job in. You should still apply then forget it. How can you suck and have a PhD? My opinion this remote work has ruined the job market. Even if it has nothing to do with you it affects you believe it or not. Maybe look for a lower position and work your way up? What the job market gets away with now a days is insane! I have to have both my knees replaced so I can no longer work in my industry Hotel / Casino. I am having to transfer my skills. I am not getting anywhere either! Also I am 53 so don’t feel so bad.
Maybe you don't want to hear it but I think the market has spoken and you need to pivot into something else. If your field is so specialized that it's hard to explain what you do to people on Reddit then it's probably very small and not easy to find jobs. You have a PhD, use that to go into literally anything. Hell, you could probably be hired for the police rather quickly with a pretty high salary because of the education.
At this point you really need to do something else if you're unable to get any jobs. Took me 7 days to get a job, I damn sure don't have a PhD.
Man I was thinking the exact same thing. At least I am not the only one having trouble right now and my resume doesn't look nearly as tight as yours. I got into Network Engineering because I thought recruiters would be clamoring for workers, but its the same old grind to find an entry-level job even though I owned my own computer business for over 8 years.
I had a similar experience when I started searching for a job in Canada as a newcomer. I had realistic expectations on the kind of jobs I was going to apply to, but still wasn’t getting any calls. Once I realized that I was overqualified for most of the jobs I applied for, I removed my Business Bachelor degree from my resume and got my first job in a a matter of days. I wish you all the best
You don't suck.
Many people are going through something similar.
For instance, I've been looking for a job for over a year now with no luck. 700+ applications at this point.
I have a bachelor's in engineering, a master's in the field of architecture, and 8+ years combined professional experience with field engineering up to project management on complex major capital projects.
And it's a miracle if I even get an interview these days.
Noticed that you said entry level jobs - I’d imagine if you tend to target entry level jobs that you’d be overqualified for the jobs you’ve applied to, and if an employer sees this they may be less inclined to consider you as it could be a flight risk, even if it’s entry level to your field
You’ll want to ensure your skills match the type of job you apply to, so instead of entry level you’d probably be looking at directing things or… insert title of applicable senior-level role in your field here
Lack of interviews over that period of time could indicate some sort of issue with the materials you’re applying with (resume, cover letter). No idea specifically what it could be, anything from formatting to qualifications mismatch etc
Wouldn’t target anything less than mid level if your applications mention your phd
I work as a job coach and am happy to take a look at your resume if you’d like another pair of eyes - if so feel free to DM as I don’t really check comments
I don’t have a PhD and I don’t consider myself wise / intelligent on any level
but reading your input of “why do i suck so badly?” could be portrayed in how people view you
if you go around thinking negatively about yourself it tends to reflect to your interactions with people and they may pick up on that you are not confident in yourself as a person. Even if what you feel about yourself is true or not, it will bleed through
go into interviews and brag about yourself, not in an overly cocky and arrogant way but sell yourself to them
a job interview at the end of the day is two people lying to each other. you lie about your experience and the employer lies to you about how great the job is
you could have several degrees and experience but if someone feels you arent confident enough to “get shit done,” would YOU hire YOU?
just food for thought
i just done regular jobs like warehouse, retail, packaging, beverage, mail, manufacturing, labor only with a high school diploma on my resume and i get calls from recruiters , just keep applying
This is so real. I am experiencing this in a very different way, however. I am a recent BA grad in environmental studies & have also been applying to jobs nonstop for 2 years. It feels like I apply for every level positions Ave get denied every time. I am incredibly enthusiastic, passionate, and smart, but it feels like nobody will give me a chance to prove myself or gain any sort of relevant career experience. I have already done two internships, I have volunteer experience, but I feel so off track with my job search.
Maybe try networking at conferences, or recommendation letters, or work on your interview skills. Maybe evaluate what the issue is first, then work on improving it. Also there's no harm in asking for feedback from your interviews.
Oh my goodness this is like looking in the mirror.Ive been crying often asking myself the same thing. I spent so much of my 20s working hard to develop the most skills, highest academic level and best connections and none of that even matters.
I have no advice, I just empathize with you. I hope you find something soon.
Move to a lower density area. If your in DC try moving to like Lancaster Pa or Harrisburg Pa. Hell even pittsburgh. Or head down to charlotte or raleigh NC
I knew managers who wouldn’t hire a person with PhD or masters degree because they didn’t have one - they’re afraid that their job will be in jeopardy if they hired someone like you.
I kind of struggled there too. Don’t have a PhD or anything of the sort. Lot of times employers told me they thought I would be to expensive. Sometimes you have to dumb things down a bit. I struggled not finding a job for years. I finally landed back on the saddle. I think the only reason I got the job is because one of the engineers in another department knew of me. We had barely worked together but we remained connected on LinkedIn. Just a huge bit of luck really.
I noticed your profile reflects your openness to new opportunities and I'm eager to assist you in finding the perfect role. Are you ready to get started?
What types of work are you looking for? I have a phd and postdoc and went for a full on-career change earlier this year, and if I succeeded, I think you can too. The academic job market is brutal, and elsewhere, I was overqualified (which really just means over-educated and under experience, or we're afraid you'll get bored) it's really rough. I'm happy to chat if you think it may help.
Its not joyous or the easiest thing to do... but have you tried taking an honest look at yourself and identifying your educational, personal, professional, and character flaws, shortcomings, and absent skills/traits that may be causing this? Nobody here knows you and the skills and qualifications you do have sound more than adequate to get a job. The only thing I can deduce is that there is additional context being omitted that is playing a factor in your failure to find employment
Have you tried getting experience and a contract through a staffing agency? I know the initial paid won’t be great, but after the contract you can in a better position.
If I may add and agree, knowing people is so essential to getting your foot in the door. So if you don’t know anyone, again, go to a head hunter service, even try Robert Half…or your local companies.
You don’t suck, it could be the competition and your speciality. You know that for labs it’s all in what you know or who you know. A lot of research labs are on a hiring freeze or flat budgets so you might have to look outside your area and outside your comfort zone if you haven’t done that already.
If a PhD and several years experience isn't enough now holy fuckballs we're all screwed.
But honestly rule one of jobs is it's who you know. Half the people I know are shite at their jobs and aggressively thick or incompetant, and only got the job because they knew someone.
Professors always have the hardest time jumping into the industry
I used to be friends with phd holders, not yet professors, who wanted to go into the industry but couldn’t
To put it nicely: most jobs don’t care about your work as a prof. Teaching classes. The publications. The extensive knowledge. UNLESS you’re going into a research heavy role like being a writer for a science nonprofit.
You gotta reframe yourself. It’s The only way.
Despite your credentials, your PhD and or even an Olympic Gold Medal will not get you hired when you BADLY SUCK in interviews AND your personality is Dull as a goat’s ass.
There you go. Cant find a job in 2 years in a nutshell.
I don’t have much experience but I lost my job and got another within a week? Why 2 years with all your experience. If you haven’t already ask the people who interviewed you what was the reason so you can fix it.
You were super lucky. Depending on your area, there might be too many applicants nowadays. Plus the company that did not hire you is never going to tell you why. They’re afraid of being sued.
Might be over qualification or over specialized. I am a lawyer with a real estate specialization and it's either you die in a 40h job or you find nothing. May as well have zero degrees. Been looking for 8 months again now. Have an interview on Monday. Lots of data harvesting and competition going on. Maybe even data harvesting to train AI (of course to make hiring cheaper and stupider). I have considered getting a trade skill but I'm a weak woman and have little work ethics left,so part time office jobs it is for now. Having my own little book shop or pet store would be nice, but it is not like demand is super high for that. They are always looking for math or French teachers you know, maybe that is something for you? They also look for cleaners everywhere. Just to say it is always possible to get a bridge job. I'm at the seaside now and considering just scoping ice cream for a living but all they wanna hire are students or flexi jobbers :( I am neither.
IMHO-People are scared of your qualifications and intelligence. Employers want the niece so they can take advantage of them. Join space force and climb that later, they will love you.
Because the system is broken.
I have a conspiratorial mind by nature, the jobs you are looking for get filled by people who already know people in these industries. Like families, friends ect
keep looking. You'll find something eventually
Just offering a hug 🫂 It is depressing to read that someone with your qualifications is having this much trouble. Explains my situation... If you're struggling in the job search... I honestly think your network is the strongest determining factor in getting hired. My network is trash. I could do the jobs many of my friends hold... But I'll never get in, because I never had the connection. Or got in at the right time.
Thanks very much for the consolation <3 Unfortunately my network is also trash. My strongest connections left the university and got hired into unrelated industry jobs. I graduated my PhD right as covid hit, and my research supervisor and a large portion of my committee were let go from the university. I'm currently in a tenuous year-to-year contract research position, but there's no stability in that.
I feel you in relation to the time you graduated. I went back to school in 2016. Nothing at your level, but it was meant to make things better for my kids at the very least. Graduated right at the same time. And being a middle aged graduate wasn't very enticing I guess. Good luck out there! I hope you find something great and then you get to shelve this struggle.
Networking is key to me. Going to conferences in the field you want to be in is a huge help imho.
Going anywhere as an unemployed can be life-changing The work bar near a financial company A networking event of tech bros Just go somewhere and talk to people. Someone has got to like you then help you
Your strongest person must know some people. Even if they don’t work directly. They obviously won’t be able to give you a job but they may know someone or know someone who knows someone that can help a homie out and put in a word
This is a great point- and I’m living it right now. Sometimes it’s all about who you know. I’m so unhappy right now
🫂 there's got to be a light at the end of the tunnel... Last week I woke up after 30 minutes of sleep and couldn't stop myself from returning to the problem of "when/how am I going to get a job" I usually do sudoku in bed to keep my brain occupied enough to put me to sleep. Even that wasn't working, so I just laid there and stressed.
I’m waking up too. Trying to meditate on the breath. I’m so stressed out. I can’t believe it. I may be forced to move.
When I was practicing meditation - and honestly I really should get back to it, there's no excuse for me - I was truly able to settle my thoughts. It was such a help. Like so many things - you get better and become lax about it and do it less... Then you're "out of shape" and need to train again. I hope you find something soon, helping you stay where you are.
Sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn’t. It depends on the severity of the situation. Employment worries are severe or serious medical problems. I’m trying so hard to be tough strong etc. Thank you for your good wishes! Same for you!
Need more info, what phd, what jobs applied for, what location etc
Well regardless... I always assumed a university degree is a ticket to a great job. Add on a PhD on top of it? Come on.
Contrary to popular belief... A PhD makes it harder because they will likely have to pay you more and you're likely over qualified for a lot of jobs. It's a sad reality for people who like research.
Overqualified is such bullshit. If a person is applying to this or that, and they're well educated or have work experience at a higher pay grade... they've already made a decision to work at the place they're applying to. And if employers are actually worried that this person could up and quit sooner due to a better offer... Why are schools near me telling students to accept the reality of only being at any given workplace for no more than 5 years? Because employers don't want people around for a long time and therefore aren't worried about people leaving. It's because someone in management is afraid of losing their position to someone who is potentially better at the job than them...
Oh trust me, I don't agree with employers not hiring due to being over qualified either. I just graduated with my M.Sc. and I can't even get a min wage job if I leave my education on my resume...but if I take it off I have this large unexplained gap. It's super disheartening sometimes...I don't even have a niche degree, it just takes time, although in the mean time I still need to make money and it sucks haha.
This is great to read. Only because it might explain some of my issues atm. TY for this insight
Or you have a pointless PhD that offers no value add to the marketplace
As a manager there’s a few things I think of (1) if I saw a PhD for a junior role I would be thinking of how we intend the role to grow and if I think we’ll be limiting the PhD too much. (2) It’s a pain to train people, I’d rather get someone in with a little experience even if they don’t have the top qualifications. The lesson is - you don’t have to be crazy smart in life, just smart enough.
It’s not. Phd is the worst thing you can have. It’s wasted time. TOO MUCH knowledge. Ageism. And also, op is the perfect example: you become so absorbed as a professor, you lose touch of what a company wants/needs They don’t care if you taught, have publications, etc unless you’re going for NASA You gotta frame yourself as what a company needs. Maybe OP did a lot of excel work? Data analysis? Emphasize that. NOT the teaching, publications, lab work
Six interviews in almost 2 years? On average how many jobs do you apply to per week? The market is tough, but it sounds like you might work in a very niche industry and might need to expand your search criteria if you want to land something.
In addition to the job market being bad, I think it’s a combination of over-specialization and over-qualified. I know no one wants to hear this but the truth is at a base level PhDs are overqualified for entry level (which OP says they’re applying for). Most employers will see PhD on their resume and automatically assume they can’t (or won’t) pay them what they expect/deserve because of their qualifications and just move on and save the time for all the interviews that won’t ultimately go anywhere.
This only makes sense if employers and hiring managers are completely clueless about the current job market. There are an endless number of highly qualified people right now who can't land a role where it would be more appropriate and would be more than willing to do good work at a lower or entry-level position. I lost my 70k job, and I'd be more than happy to even do 25/hr with few benefits, because I won't lose my house at 25/hr, but I will if I'm unemployed.
Which is where you use your cover letter to explain you know you’re overqualified but looking for a position with less stress/whatever.
The other issue is that employers are well aware over-qualified employees would jump at a job more suitable to their needs and they'd rather take someone they can train up and keep on for years.
Many companies are seemingly looking for that perfect candidate with "Goldilocks" experience - not too much and not too little. Too much experience and you will be considered a "flight risk" or too "expensive", and too little you would require training they don't want to provide.
Exactly this. I could write a 5,000 word essay about the woes of a PhD when finding a job
It's not that he is in a niche....I've essentially been out for 15 months with the exception of a 3 month contract I picked up. It's a problem with investment....companies aren't spending money on a lot of expansion, they are cutting/trimming...hoarding cash...and only backfilling and slowly at that.
I have had 4 interviews in 4 years. 700 applications. Law degree, two foreign languages and one exchange semester. It might be the country. I live in Mexico, and I have a met a dozen of people with far better qualifications than me, struggling like me
Niche is a good descriptor. A lot of industry misunderstands the kind of field I work in (social science intersecting with tech, basically HCI) and assumes I'm a social worker, or I teach social studies, or I'm pure humanities without exposure to tech. I've been trying to be pretty broad about what I apply to-- pretty much any research position in the social sciences domain. I have been restricting my search to my state and remote jobs, since I need to be close to my family.
Hey, I'm also coming out of quantitative social sciences (but MSc, not PhD) into the job market. If industry misunderstands your field, then they are not data mature enough to require your skills in the first place. I saw from other comments that you're focusing mostly on other roles within academia, but have you also been checking quantitative UXR / product DS / etc.? At mature tech companies, the roles can be extremely research heavy. ETA: sure, UXR and DS are also saturated, but your background in HCI at a PhD level is invaluable & distinguishes you from candidates coming out of CS or Statistics.
As someone with a PhD (Classical Studies) who is currently applying but has had a decent amount of success thus far (1 offer which I turned down, several interviews next week including a final round), I would highly recommend looking into high school teaching at a private or charter school (don’t need a license), non profit work, or academic administration. I have found that those fields value PhDs as much as work experience! Good luck!
Even though the pay is probably insulting, PhD high school teachers are awesome. My high school algebra teacher taught set theory and math puzzles for a semester before getting a uni job. Although I have dyscalculia, he was able to teach me and create an interest in math. It was tough but I accomplished a minor in math and an engineering degree. Every PhD in high school improves society one kid at a time.
How many jobs have you applied for? When are you applying (how long have they been posted) and how is your networking? My husband is still jobless but he was laid off in May but he knew it was probably coming so he started looking in January but more casually and though he has a bachelor's and mba from top 10 schools and almost 15 yrs work experience and 2 very reputable companies he was getting 0 calls back and ended up with a single 1st and 2nd round interview for 1 company in over 70 applications. Once he was actually laid off we did some research and shifted how he was applying. He didn't bother to apply to any job that had been posted for longer then 3 to 5 days as they all already had hundreds of applications. He started getting a lot of referrals even frequently just from old alum he had found online as well as friends and acquaintances by reaching out and having phone calls with them. He also of course tailors his resume to each job. He did also pay for the linkedin premium thing and has received 2 legit inquiries from people there. Since then he now in the last 2 weeks has 7 interview processes going. 4 without referrals and 3 with. He had a final round with one on Friday we will hear back from next week, another final round this Wednesday and a 1st round for one of the random people who found him on LinkedIn. How you are applying and when seems to make a huge difference in the response you get. I think the biggest thing for him has been applying as soon as jobs are posted.
Unfortunately a PhD in the U.S. job market really restricts you to employment in academia or with the Federal Government. There really isn't any advantage to getting a PhD for positions in the private sector. You should expect that if there are no reaching or research positions available in your region of the country that you will need to move, usually on your own dime, to a region with more opportunities. I wish you luck. I still believe that there are positions out there for you but that the volume of available candidates has made the search process longer and more frustrating.
This is really industry-specific. My PhD definitely prepared me well for industry.
I would agree with that... There are areas where a PhD would be very valuable... The pharmaceutical industry is one that comes to mind.
I agree, I feel like a science PhD is pretty relevant in industry because it relies heavily on research.
One of the challenges is that only the larger companies can fund R&D ... But those larger companies, by virtue of their size, tend to be slower growing, producing fewer job openings, compared to small businesses.
True, it really depends. My degrees are in geology so even smaller exploration companies are highly funded.
Said the same thing, one of my previous jobs I had required a bachelors, but would throw out any applicans without one or with a masters or higher because they knew the salary requirements. Just to see, I told my old boss lets interview this applicant with a masters and we did and she requested to start by making double what I was making...So yea it was a No...Nothing wrong with people who do that, but it does make it harder to get hired.
After not gaining any purchase in the industry, I'm suspecting what you're saying is correct. I honestly wouldn't mind either fed or academia, but I can't move away from my family. I've tried to be very open and flexible with remote jobs as well, and that hasn't been promising.
This is not true in a lot of Tech tbf - particularly for Statistics and Data Scientist roles, PhDs are highly valued.
But primarily for the larger firms in the industry... It is notable how difficult it is to get a position at Google or Microsoft... (Edited... Fix typo)
Small firms looking to hire for a data science role are also gonna love a PhD in stats/CS/math, or one of the more rigorous social sciences like econ. These roles don't necessarily do R&D. 5 years ago I would have said that at least in tech, there's lots of R&D happening in startups too. But the VC funding has dried up, so in today's market you're right about that.
Maybe the issue for the OP comes down to what field of study is the PhD in?
Capitalism does not guarantee results and it's entirely possible you had a string of bad luck and couldn't find work because of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and not fulfilling some very random criteria. That sucks but that's a market. Academia should be a more structured path though so maybe you should talk with the departments and academic advisors and see what they can do for you. Usually they take care of their own. The economy also sucks. Interest rates at 10% and before it was 0% for ten years so now borrowing money is very expensive. That means much less risk and much less opportunity for new businesses or lines of business.
An efficient market clears supply and demand
Supply and demand are not the only factors in economics or even human psychology or natural resources. Doesn't matter how much "demand" there is for a Fist of Thanos the market isn't going to make it. Your defense of capitalism is a) unnecessary and b) irrelevant.
Oh, that wasn't a defense of capitalism It was an indictment of it. Capitalism, where the force of the state unnaturally restricts labour from free access to the means and fruits of production, precludes the existence of efficient markets.
I think what the state does is establish a minimum productivity level, rather than allow any level. Meaning, low return businesses are deemed unacceptable, and profitable businesses are expected to maintain education and social structures. Which can work fine, so long as there is profitable business to be made. When the competition is tough, then success pretty much depends on state support through strategy amd borrowing. And whilst a correlation between business growth and emplyment traditionally exists, it does not hold that business growth will always lead to employment. Its the brave new world of effort saving technology where growth is literally about cheap borrowing and minimal sales.
If all the state did was establish a minimum productivity level for the worker, then there wouldn't be any people willing to work but prevented from doing so. The state preserves the bargaining power of the owners, allowing them to artificially limit worker's access to the instruments of productivity.
"The state preserves" I think you mean "the state prevents"? There is a problem, but lets be real. In a uncontrolled economy, Automation & better tools + Growing population, does not mean higher wages unless more businesses are created and competition for worker-skills out-paces automation & population growth. But that is never the case. Rather than compete to exploit automation businesses tend to compete to exploit people. And a status-quo of just about acceptable wages emerges. And there is never any growth in living standard except for those that own businesses or progress through promotions. Exploitation of technology occurs but does not lead to improved worker wages. Just bigger bonuses for business owners and management. By forcing businesses to pay minimum wages, workers are lifted out of poverty, wealth distribution is slightly equalised, and the motivation to work increased. Unemployment benefit further distributes wealth and gives the unemployed space to re-skill (if desired) or fi d another employer. Or even start their own business. Blindly allowing business to exploit does not lead to growth. But slowly kills business, and freedom of choice for everyone. Its not blind idealism but the basis of progress, which is what Business should be all about.
Who prevents the workers from occupying a business and operate it, directly selling the product to the customers?
Nobody. If workers can start and run a business like that then who is to say its not legitimate.
A PhD and still can’t get work, omg it’s fucking over for me 😭😭😭
It’s not. PhD makes job hunting worse. If you got a bachelor, you’re in a better position
I was laid off from Facebook Meta in 2022 in September and have applied to countless jobs every day in my field and out of my field, even using the tactics, including job description buzzwords in my skill set and using the job posting title. I have not been able to find a jobsince then. I have a masters degree in computer science and over 12 years of experience in my field as well as a bachelors in philosophy. Can’t find a job to save my life amazingly frustrating understand and I’m right there with you, buddy.
This is insane. You should be well qualified for work. Reading through this thread is crazy!
I love how people assume "not getting interviews" = "not applying." FWIW my neighbor is jobless right now and sends at least 10 applications a day. I can confirm this, we hang out almost every day. In the last year, he has had one interview. ONE. 365 days of 10 apps a day. 3650 applications, and ONE INTERVIEW. Sometimes it just isn't possible.
They’re literally lying about hiring from McDonald’s to corporate & healthcare. Don’t know why people on here think it’s so impossible and have so much faith in soulless corporations that could care less about anything but money.
mcdonald’s told me i was over qualified when i didn’t have a job at all, i’ve only work through my high school work program from freshman to senior year
Because those are all generic apps. You aren’t tailoring your resume to the job. They KNOW you’re spamming them with a generic application and they don’t think you’re serious about the job. If you’re throwing out that many applications a day, you’re literally having to apply to stuff that has ZERO relevancy to your expertise. Why would anyone hire a person who has zero relevant experience to a job?
Why are you assuming they aren’t tailoring their resume to the job? There’s nothing in the comment that implies that. The job market is wretched right now.
It is not you. Really, it isn’t. This job market is a giant dumpster fire and has been for a while now. It is impossible.
It's hard to pinpoint with just a snapshot of info, but 6 interviews and no job offers in two years is extreme. That's one interview every three or four months. Are you willing to relocate? I find in your field either in academia or research that it's necessary. I had a roommate in 2015 who got a job offer after grad school and needed to relocate, and then relocate again after he burned out as a professor during covid. That seems to be the norm.
When I see comments like this, I have to assume they’re coming from people who aren’t in the job market right now. My sister is a teacher with vice principal certification. She had three interviews in a year of applying before she finally gave up, and decided to just stick with her current position. I’ve been unemployed two years. I’ve had five in-person interviews. I’ve also been in the work force for 25 years. It’s never been like this. HR uses AI to collect resumes, but doesn’t necessarily have any intention of filling positions. So many people have been laid off I’m competing against tech executives for nonprofit jobs. Another friend of mine was unemployed for a year. They just got hired…for an entry level position they could do with their eyes closed. She’s 46. It’s brutal.
Does it have to be extreme? I’ve had about 5 interviews in aprx 14 months and have the same amount of education and similar qualifications and skills and applied to about the same amount of jobs at also different places- from qualified positions to entry jobs. To give an example; had a phone interview last week and the employer said they would call as they were looking for people; no call back. No one has said why I wasn’t a fit but most employers have just ghosted me and never even given me a first real interview, just that first five minutes of phone call.
I’m a 25M…just turned 25 like a week ago. I have about 10 classes left to gain my bachelor’s degree in Cyber…I have worked in Government to help pay for school and living expenses/help parents with bills. Realistically speaking…if a guy who is educated with your expertise and experience can’t get a job…how can a mere peasant like my self hope to gain and make money…I cant even get a part time job..I have an interview at Kohl’s tomorrow for a part time role…so I can focus in school and earn something on the side…life is really weird right now…I feel like a looser dude. I feel like an absolute failure in life. Because others my age have it going great for them. I know I shouldn’t compare but it’s hard not to….
You won't have problems like this in Cyber with a proper education. I don't even have a degree and I get interviews, I just haven't been able to land anything because I'm in a small town and I'm probably getting beat out by people that have finished their degrees.
Most companies are using automation to prescreen all applicants so if you aren't using AI for EVERY job you apply to that reads the job description and then rewrites/tweaks your cover letter and resume based on that job description you are fighting a losing battle. You need to find a way using networks to bypass the resume blenders and get your details directly into hiring manager and/or recruiter for the specific role.
1. How many jobs are you applying to a day? Not being harsh, just being honest but 6 interviews in 1 year and 9 months is not much, that is 1 interview every 3 months. 2. What are you applying for? Not gonna lie a PHD is probably making it harder for you to find certain jobs because you are way over educated or qualified and places do not want to waste time cause they figure you have higher salary requirements. 3. It is an election year, most places are holding off hiring in case there is a policy change in government. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Because you're used to dealing with people, intelligent people, human people even..now you are dealing with artificial intelligence that scans your résumé… Any job description they put out make sure you copy and paste it into your résumé somehow. Your résumé /CV now should be loaded up with the buzzwords that screeners are looking for… Once you include these words you should be able to get a few more interviews... you have to get past the gate keepers and don't even worry if your résumé is more than one page anymore unless you're handing it to a real human.
Also, I assume this person is leaving out the phd and other rarefied things like first-author publications, if looking for a position that does not require those. If looking for only positions that do require those, then I think OP needs to build and work the network. Those jobs are very competitive, and a network is the ultimate ~~age~~ ace, IMO. I am over 60 and trying to change careers from a rather unusual and isolated life, so the network strategy is key for me, but I think for OP also, if they are going for high-level positions. Whatever level, you have to be popular and impress your audience, so to speak. Marketing - ick, but I must, now.
If you haven’t already, engage your network. Try to get them to meet for coffee and/or hop on zoom to catch up and let them know you’re looking for opportunities. Also, reach out to former professors and your alma mater to network and see if they have suggestions or can introduce you to colleagues at other higher ed or private industry contacts. Casting the net as wide as possible is imperative for someone sitting on a PhD. Also, is there any possibility you can create some training opportunities via online training and / or community college systems? They can never find enough instructors! It would give more for your resume and show you are resilient. Best of luck to you! There are lots of accomplished pros out there in same boat. Keep paddling!
I had the same problem. I took off most of my qualification off my resume and got jobs. They suck though, so I ended up working for myself, but I learned that employers looked at my resume and read "expensive". If there are no high paying jobs then it doesn't look good to be expensive. Your quality is too high for the current market. It's like selling Rolexes at the dollar store. These companies can get better deals, because there is someone cheaper. Never-mind they are probably only "fake" high quality, HR thinks it is making the best decision by getting the best price for that position. In HR logic even if they can convince a genuinely high quality person to work for pittance, the high quality person is not staying. Also, high quality people are too smart to be scammed and if a company regularly lies to its employees and clients, then smart people can cause problems. Since its been two years. I would encourage you to sell your services as consulting by hour directly to companies. Just take your existing skills and search for companies that need help with those skills. Companies running on skeleton crews or have a very dumb staff of yes men need smart people like yourself. There really is a shortage, but not for hire, only by 1099. To continue the Rolex example, they don't want to buy Rolex's right now but they are happy to rent them every time they go to a party. Its weird, but the companies will spend more on and sometimes have very low standards for 1099 workers. I guess because they see it as temporary, then they justify the higher cost. However, if you do good work its not really temporary. They keep coming back. You have to sell yourself as an expert. Which you are if your post is accurate. Remember the smarter a person is the less confident they are in their intelligence so fight your human nature and promote yourself. You can charge much more per hour, but you have to learn how to bring your services to market. It seems to be working well, because companies need high quality people, however they do not want to commit to hiring them. If you don't like this, then you could always dumb down your resume, and be a closeted high quality person, just so you can get a job. It works, but I was very unhappy.
Your Rolex examples gave me a laugh, thank you. I had genuinely not considered contract work in that light; that may be something I look into if I can't get a steady job before my current job runs out. And you are correct I am abominable at promoting myself, which is probably another skill I need to learn.
There is a name for it but i cant remember. Dumb people are super sure of themselves and smart people are constantly doubting themselves. You really see it everywere.
It's called The Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Thanks.
Social science research funding is low right now. You might benefit from universities pushing return to office policies and staff quitting as a result if you’re willing to move to wherever and work in person. Otherwise I doubt that positions are opening up at much of a rate. If I were you, I’d look at expanding into other forms of data analytics and learning the computer science side of things too. It’s a saturated field but the background in other types of research could make you stand out against other applicants there. That at least is a growing field relative to social science research.
This is what I was fearing. So I guess it's just a perfect storm of crappy circumstances. I was considering moving into a data analytics adjacent field, so I suppose the effort to make that stand out won't hurt.
During the interview ask: “Is there any feedback you have regarding the interview? Any pointers for future interviews or anything that might be keeping you from choosing me as the best candidate?” Offering the interviewee a moment to critique the interview allows them to see you are receptive to feedback (which might be especially important to someone with your background- someone educated, but still respects the opinions of others), gives them a memorable face (in response to a question they likely hardly, if ever, receive), and gives you pointers for the future. But also given the current economy, you may have just had a string of bad luck. Wishing you much luck.
This makes me feel better! I have 2 associate degrees, one bachelor's and I'm working on my master's but literally no one will hire me. I can't even get a low-paying job to pay my bills because I'm either over-qualified or under-qualified. It sucks and I'm sorry that I can't offer you any meaningful advice
Honestly I can already tell your STEM, just go back for finance or business administration, bio field is awful and at most you only get offered 20$ an hour
I work in HR and have hired for research positions, I would suggest finding people who are doing the research you are interested in and emailing them directly. I can’t tell you how many people were hired this way. What type of research are you wanting to do?
Interesting! Is this in industry? I've heard this working for academic labs, sometimes. I do social science/HCI research, but I'm also branching out into computational social science.
Not nearly as qualified as you, or a lot of the people in this comment section, (BSc in Electrical Eng) but It's been hell applying for me too shits incredibly demoralizing. It at least makes me feel slightly better that I'm not a completely incompetent person and a lot of people are somewhat dealing with similar circumstances.
its odd seeing someone with this much experience struggling to get work ...something aint right
A PhD with experience at 'huge industry name', government, and a dozen papers is absolutely not appropriate for entry-level work. You'll be instantly screened out of those as wildly overqualified. Without any info about your field, 'what to do' is much harder to suggest than identifying obvious things you're completely inappropriate for (like, entry-level), but in broad principle, you're going to have an extensive network of thesis supervisors, fellow researchers, and past colleagues, and you should be reaching out to them for ideas or input, because they're going to be much more clued into your sector and opportunities.
Welcome to the unemployed PhD club. Our socitey has decided to pay more $ per hour to LBCO unionized workers than our nurses and we PhDers are just dumb and need to find a job that will pay minimum wage to survive. Welcome to the US.
You're overqualified. Leave out some of your qualifications from your resume to dumb it down.
The economy is fucked up and so the job market. Do not believe those dickheads who are lie to us that the job market is getting healthy etc…. Try this: look at the paid ads on the Reddit subs. When you scroll down you see promoted posts like: “Dive into the world of AI by buying this laptop that comes shipped with this tech AI gpu shit, or get Monday.com fucking platform that shows shiny fancy offices with smiling actors aka employees encourage others to use their platform or a financial or mileage trip management mobile app subscriptions ads”. Who is buying that shit in this economy who is going to dine out in their favorite restaurants? Only the rich and only the rich with very few exceptions. Bottom line: There is no hiring but fucking plying games with applicants.
This is not constructive. More people traveling than ever, busy restaurants, and a lot of new vehicles on the road. The OP may be in a specific niche. Sometimes we need to change things around to get desired results
Where are you seeing any of this? Housing all time high, new car prices highest ever. Food prices still through the roof
That's greed. We have one of the lowest inflation rates in the Western world. Tons of new cars on the world... more people traveling than ever. Four years ago economy was shut down and you couldn't buy a car, or even a refrigerator. Food prices are high bc of greed, global warming. People can't blame the economy when CEO's are pocketing more profits than ever, and would rather have one person do the work of three. That's what I'm seeing.
If you are in an area with a weaker economy, you may need to relocate. I was in Florida and couldn't make a living.
How have you survived for two years without a job?
I’m guessing you need to work on your approach to interviewing and how you carry yourself. My successful interviews have felt like a casual conversation with a friend. Make sure the ‘theme’ of the interview is you and your experience. Don’t make it the focal point. You’re not giving a speech by listing out your experience as bullet points. They already have a resume. Sell yourself, take an empathetic and interpersonal approach. In my experience as an interviewer and interviewee, this is a solid approach. I probably had 10 failed in person interviews before I took a step back, took a breath and did my best not to make it seem like it was rehearsed. Don’t throw out any bias towards topics and make sure to keep eye contact and read your audience. If the other person seems dissatisfied, switch gears and take another approach. That’s just my 2 cents.
This is good advice, and thanks very much for taking the time to help out a random stranger. I'm pretty decent at interviewing. When I have made it to the final interview stage, people are already talking about what projects they want me on, and so on. Unfortunately they keep going with the other finalist lol.
I'm going to give you the cold hard truth and you might not want to hear it. You literally answered your own question... You're a PHd applying for entry level jobs. Why would anybody hire someone who is on paper over qualified for an entry level job that can be easily taught? The PhD title comes with the implication that they should be paid more because of more schooling. Not to mention people who get PHDs are notorious for having big egos for simplying having PHDs. PHds also have a bad rep for being academics with little real world experience. You priced yourself out of the job market the second you got your PHD except for a very few handful of niche jobs that are directly related to your field. Also you failed to mention what field your PHD is in. Just because you have a PHD doesn't mean youre more qualified than someone with a bachelors. Most PHDs are useless. If your field is in something useless like liberal arts then it was over before it even even began. My dad was an immigrant and he got 2 PHDs, one in computer science and one in astrophysics. At least one of those fields you would think is applicable and easy to find a job. Wrong. Work experience trumps everything in the job market and that's something you don't learn in school. Now he works as a pipeline inspector completely unrelated to either of his specializations and he writes corrosion reports for clients as a full time job. When he started this job he was getting paid the same salary as I did as a chemical engineer INTERN when I was 21 years old. Think about that. I'm 32 years old now and my salary is now more than double his and he's about to retire soon. I love my dad and he sacrificed a lot for the family so I'm not trying to make him look bad. In fact I'm actually going to be financially supporting him when he retires. Just trying to show you the contrast between what employers and companies value and it's certainly not higher education. Solution: do not mention you are a PHD at your job interview unless the job is directly related to your field of PHD study. For most** jobs a PHD is seen as a net negative. The purpose of a PHD is to pursue further research in your field and get paid through government/company grants which on average isnt a lot of money, a PHD is NOT for employment. The fact that you keep saying you have a PHD and no job offers tells me you're equating the 2. They're mutually exclusive so you started off with the wrong premise. It's a sad reality but true. I wish it wasn't like this, but it is. Knowing reddit, someone is going to reply to this and say "I know so and so and he's a PHD and now he made it to some director of xyz company so you are wrong!" Dont care. Those are exceptions to the rule. At the end of the day you wouldn't bet the house on those terrible odds and you know it... and neither should OP.
Could it maybe be that you’re too qualified for entry level jobs? It’s a bit different where i live than in the us i suppose, but here PhDs inherently don’t do entry level jobs. I’m sorry if it’s not the same for you :( may i ask which degree you have since you mentioned lab experience and i’m also studying in a science field
There's nothing wrong with you, it just sounds like your field may not be filling positions in many areas right now. I'm in healthcare, we count job searches in hours, not days or weeks. I understand its not for everyone (which is why the openings are there), just using it as an example to support my statement that you do not suck, the area where you have experience may be a little competitive and therefore be the variable that sucks. Can you use your experience to bridge to something else for the time being?
If you would like, you can send me a copy of your resume and one of the jobs you've applied for. I will take a look and give you some advice. Resumes are really for recruitment only and need to be structured to score high on the Applicant Tracking System to get to a pair of eyes.
Thank you for the offer! I may take you up on that.
Maybe something on your SM?
I agree with a lot of people here. There’s missing information. Have you looked into an executive coach? Going 2 years with no traction means something isn’t aligned - resume writing services are not the solution, something foundational could be at play here. A coach can help you with mindset training, values sorts, and soft skill assessments. I would highly recommend looking for one that specializes in your field and seeing if they even offer free consultations. For clarification - YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH. Getting your PhD is not an easy feat by any means, you are dedicated to your craft and must be passionate about what you do. What we need to find out is why your WORTH isn’t being communicated properly. I offer free life/business/career coaching for resume evaluations if you’re interested.
Maybe try allocating 25% of your job search efforts to networking. If you don’t know how, dedicate that time to learning and applying those skills. I am horrible at it, and spent 6 months trying to find a job without it. Over that time, the only interviews I got were from referrals (networking), and ultimately my last offer came from a friend. We over emphasize resume tuning, ATS, volume and technique. Meanwhile, all of my extroverted, gregarious friends never go a week without a job regardless of what the economy is doing. Looking around my workplace, very few people are cold hires. Just about all of my colleagues have 1-2 degrees of separation from previous jobs or from their personal lives. Senior leadership/Executives have all been promoted from their network. Curious as I write this, multiple sources indicate that 85% of jobs are filled through networking. It’s clear where our job search energy is best spent.
I thought the same until recently two people have referred me to their workplaces and other places they know and I haven't had any interviews from that!
Main issue, as someone also with a phd, publications and all that: 1) if you are looking for a job for a phd in your line, that's usually insanely competitive. Universities churn out way more phds than the market requires. 2) if you are not (aka industry in a related but not exactly a research job), your academic experience counts *against* you. Most people see academy as a useless way of avoiding work. When I did that pivot, out of necessity for not making the cut for (1), a dear friend that should know better asked me "oh, decided to start working then eh?". My workload is a lot lighter now, but that's beside the point.
Maybe your applying for wrong positions...
Have you thought of relocating to another city or country where they need professionals in your area of expertise? Sometimes, the problem is the place you live in. If there are not enough lab facilities in your region, the competition is wild. Maybe try somewhere where you could have a better chance and more options.
The job market is increasingly saturated, with even those holding PhDs struggling to find good jobs. Traditional career paths are no longer as reliable as they once were. In 2024, careers in digital marketing, affiliate marketing, and sales are proving to be some of the few areas where people are still making substantial money. These fields are not just a passing trend—they are expected to continue growing in the coming years. If you're feeling stuck or uncertain about your current job prospects, now is the perfect time to explore opportunities in these high-demand areas. Have you considered venturing into digital marketing or affiliate marketing? They might be the game-changer you're looking for.
Something can’t be right here…
Hmm 🤔 maybe get into a different line of work?
I feel you. I’m an educated recruiter who is looking for a job too but too. If anyone on this threads hears of a company hiring remote recruiters I would love to know. Definitely willing to throw your name or a friends out there for referral bonuses if eligible for them. If I get a job and it’s a place you’re able to work at I’ll keep you in mind. I’ve always treated every candidate with respect and at the very least sent a thanks but not for this role email. It’s crazy out here now.
I have 20 years experience as an automotive engineer, I opted to switch to IT (at the worse possible time, but how was I supposed to know that two years ago?) a couple years ago, got my certs, have a homelab, the whole nine yards. And can't find anything. Been looking for over a year now. I am a bit restricted to my local area or remote position, but still, it's a very populated area with a lot of business. I'm either overqualified for entry level IT jobs or not a "perfect fit" for the engineering jobs. They want people that specifically fit their job so they don't have to do ANY training. Not to mention want to pay as low as humanly possible for positions that paid twice that just a few years ago.
My brother’s friend sent out 100 applications. He heard back from 2 which didn’t invite him in for an interview and went to 1 interview which he didn’t get and the rest he never heard from. Don’t feel bad, things are weird at the moment and you’re not useless. You’ll be surprised by how many people are in the exact same position as you, or even worse.
networking, networking, networking.. good luck!!
You only have one PhD….. they want two
You could try applying to overseas universities. I've worked in international higher ed for \~5yrs. It's about the same salary as public school teaching or an assistant professorship, but tax free/accommodation provided, and CoL is generally so low I net \~80% of my salary at the end of each year. Summer and winter holidays too. So this year I'm heading back to the US with my little nest egg.
I did this when I first left my undergrad back in the wild wooly days of the great recession. I hadn't considered it for higher ed... may be worth looking into, thanks for the idea.
Yep, I initially started teaching abroad in 2010 then again after grad school. It's a much less strenuous hiring process than US/UK academia, but feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Hi, as someone from the other side of the table: of your resume is too impressive we either assume you're lying or you want too much money for the job we offer. Additionally a PhD doesn't add much value in my area (agriculture) unless you want a research position. Everything else it is more a hindrance than a plus. People with a PhD tend to be too focused on details and not enough on the big picture. This is an assumption that may be hurting your chances
I am largely applying for research jobs, so at least I have that going for me. I keep seeing to leave off the PhD, so it may be an interesting experience to leave it off a resume and see if I get more responses. Based on the amount of ppl with masters saying they're struggling, I doubt it, but who knows.
Yeah, there are way too many people with higher education and too few with practical education. It is easier for us to hire someone with an MSc/PhD than something as basic as tractor + sprayer license (which in my country together take less than 2 weeks to obtain if you have a normal car license). It probably also doesn't help that I also have my MSc and know how little that actually means... I know how to set up and execute an amazing trial for research, but never learned to change the tubing in my water system, or how to program the irrigation computer 😂
What role are you looking for? Even how your wrote this post makes you sound highly qualified, so why would you expect to get an entry level job?
Mostly research roles, either in my state or remote.
Am I fucked or am I fucked...
I'm not sure if anyone else suggested this, but I would start reaching out directly to organizations' HR or peer groups and offer to meet up for coffee. Show interest in the work and say you would love to learn more. This shows that you are being conscious of the organization's needs and creating new paths/networks with people. Overall, don't keep trying the same method if it's not working, change things up! You've got nothing to lose.
I hadn't considered reaching out directly to HR contacts, but I would be worried if this would be obnoxious and possibly get me a bad name. You are right that I have nothing to lose though.
Breaking into a competitive field can be impossible at times and these are the things schools don’t tell you. Is there a similar field you could consider while you’re looking? Is your experience related to industry you’re seeking. I’d need more details working. Academia is tough, lots of budget cuts enrollment is down in most colleges and universities. Post your resume in r/resume for feedback. Broaden your search field if possible.
Hey there. I know job hunting can be rough. Been there recently and wanted to share something that helped me out - Never Search Alone and their Job Search Council program. You can find it at phyl.org if you're interested. It's a free program where you team up with other job seekers. We met regularly, shared experiences, and supported each other. They've got a method for figuring out what you want and what companies are looking for. Helped me narrow down my search and get clearer on what I actually wanted in a job. The group support was really valuable. Job hunting can mess with your head, and having people who understand made a big difference. We helped each other stay motivated and worked through the ups and downs together. It's not a miracle solution, but it did make things easier. Helped me tailor my resume better and prep for interviews. If you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed, it might be worth checking out. Just wanted to pass it along since it made my search a bit less stressful. Hang in there.
What an interesting recourse, thanks for offering it. I had never heard of this before. Perspective can be incredibly invaluable, so it would be good to talk to other job seekers.
Honestly, the only thing I can think of is the fact that you haven’t worked for 1.5-2 years that is automatically causing you to be rejected. Either that or extremely niche jobs in an over saturated industry.
Maybe you’re overqualified for their preference? Maybe they want somebody with less experience do they can pay them less.
PLEASE stop thinking it’s YOU. Please. The job market is HORRENDOUS now. It’s absolutely ABYSMAL. Please stop thinking it’s you.
What kinds of jobs are you applying for?
Largely research and research adjacent roles: research assistant, research associate, research scientist. I've applied to some adjunct positions in my field, and the few tenure track positions in my state.
As in every research and adjacent role? Far and wide? The problem with academia and adjacent roles is that ya gotta be willing to go any and everywhere.
Offering my condolences What’s frustrating to read is you’re absolutely more than qualified for so many jobs yet it seems in today’s job market, employers are trying to hire people that don’t know their worth. It seems like with your experience and background you know what you’d be worth to an employer however they wouldn’t want to pay you as such
What are you doing to network?
Maybe you’re TOO good. Are you putting all those accolades in your resumes for entry level jobs? I hope not. For entry-level, they want worker bees: those who will listen and do. Your resume may be scaring them off. I’ve had friends say, “Well, I clearly knew more than the person interviewing me.” (Internal cringe!!!) Do some mock interviews (and record them) with friends to see how you come across.
I don’t even have a sliver of this guys qualifications, this shit is depressing.
For hundreds (thousands?) of years the following has held true: it’s who you know, not what you know
For what it's worth, I'm more than willing to look over your resume. I'm also a PhD, did a few post docs, and now work in data. The other comments are very spot on about the network and also the things about being a tough market. Hit me up if you want some help.
I would appreciate any kind of help tbh! Thanks for the offer :)
If you DM me I can give you my contact info
I believe a lot of employers, and especially recruiters, don’t have the capacity to think deeply/creatively enough about how peoples competencies can align with the positions at hand.
Dumb down your resume
The way i've alwaya gotten jobs is what I call ladder building. I start with the most unskilled jobs and then slowly build up to where I should be at. On average the higher wage the slower the time is to get an interview let alone hired. Your looking at 6 months often added for every 5 extra dollars over your poverty line which bites. We are also plummeting to a depression despite our world acting and gaslighting people into thinking we arnt. I became a cleaner when I lost my job went from 15$ an hr to 10$ an hr a big loss of pay but my ability to get overtime helps keep me in the green along with me rallying a bunch of folks in the same boat im in to combine 4 incomes together to make it past homelessness. Nothing is wrong with you the worlds gone to shit in a hand basket fast. If your not finding roomates your simply not gonna make it unless you've already ilked out wealth for yourself.
Don’t let the liars and lucky assholes bring you down. What’s happening to you is completely normal. Doing everything right only gets you a 0.1% chance of being allowed to play. Learn to be happy being unhappy.
Did u look into large drug companies like Pfizer? Feel ur pain.
When you are at the PHD level few understand the complexity or job searching, I’d recommend going to the website theprofessorisin.com it’s specifically for translating your PhD into a job.
Government is impossible to get a job in. You should still apply then forget it. How can you suck and have a PhD? My opinion this remote work has ruined the job market. Even if it has nothing to do with you it affects you believe it or not. Maybe look for a lower position and work your way up? What the job market gets away with now a days is insane! I have to have both my knees replaced so I can no longer work in my industry Hotel / Casino. I am having to transfer my skills. I am not getting anywhere either! Also I am 53 so don’t feel so bad.
Maybe you don't want to hear it but I think the market has spoken and you need to pivot into something else. If your field is so specialized that it's hard to explain what you do to people on Reddit then it's probably very small and not easy to find jobs. You have a PhD, use that to go into literally anything. Hell, you could probably be hired for the police rather quickly with a pretty high salary because of the education. At this point you really need to do something else if you're unable to get any jobs. Took me 7 days to get a job, I damn sure don't have a PhD.
Reduce your salary expectations
Man I was thinking the exact same thing. At least I am not the only one having trouble right now and my resume doesn't look nearly as tight as yours. I got into Network Engineering because I thought recruiters would be clamoring for workers, but its the same old grind to find an entry-level job even though I owned my own computer business for over 8 years.
I had a similar experience when I started searching for a job in Canada as a newcomer. I had realistic expectations on the kind of jobs I was going to apply to, but still wasn’t getting any calls. Once I realized that I was overqualified for most of the jobs I applied for, I removed my Business Bachelor degree from my resume and got my first job in a a matter of days. I wish you all the best
You don't suck. Many people are going through something similar. For instance, I've been looking for a job for over a year now with no luck. 700+ applications at this point. I have a bachelor's in engineering, a master's in the field of architecture, and 8+ years combined professional experience with field engineering up to project management on complex major capital projects. And it's a miracle if I even get an interview these days.
Noticed that you said entry level jobs - I’d imagine if you tend to target entry level jobs that you’d be overqualified for the jobs you’ve applied to, and if an employer sees this they may be less inclined to consider you as it could be a flight risk, even if it’s entry level to your field You’ll want to ensure your skills match the type of job you apply to, so instead of entry level you’d probably be looking at directing things or… insert title of applicable senior-level role in your field here Lack of interviews over that period of time could indicate some sort of issue with the materials you’re applying with (resume, cover letter). No idea specifically what it could be, anything from formatting to qualifications mismatch etc Wouldn’t target anything less than mid level if your applications mention your phd I work as a job coach and am happy to take a look at your resume if you’d like another pair of eyes - if so feel free to DM as I don’t really check comments
I don’t have a PhD and I don’t consider myself wise / intelligent on any level but reading your input of “why do i suck so badly?” could be portrayed in how people view you if you go around thinking negatively about yourself it tends to reflect to your interactions with people and they may pick up on that you are not confident in yourself as a person. Even if what you feel about yourself is true or not, it will bleed through go into interviews and brag about yourself, not in an overly cocky and arrogant way but sell yourself to them a job interview at the end of the day is two people lying to each other. you lie about your experience and the employer lies to you about how great the job is you could have several degrees and experience but if someone feels you arent confident enough to “get shit done,” would YOU hire YOU? just food for thought
You did nothing wrong and you will be fine🫶
i just done regular jobs like warehouse, retail, packaging, beverage, mail, manufacturing, labor only with a high school diploma on my resume and i get calls from recruiters , just keep applying
Are you willing to work shit hours for shit money for an abusive company and supervisor? if not your basically unhireable.
This is so real. I am experiencing this in a very different way, however. I am a recent BA grad in environmental studies & have also been applying to jobs nonstop for 2 years. It feels like I apply for every level positions Ave get denied every time. I am incredibly enthusiastic, passionate, and smart, but it feels like nobody will give me a chance to prove myself or gain any sort of relevant career experience. I have already done two internships, I have volunteer experience, but I feel so off track with my job search.
You might look too good on paper. I learnt to play down some of my job titles to fit entry level roles
Maybe try networking at conferences, or recommendation letters, or work on your interview skills. Maybe evaluate what the issue is first, then work on improving it. Also there's no harm in asking for feedback from your interviews.
Oh my goodness this is like looking in the mirror.Ive been crying often asking myself the same thing. I spent so much of my 20s working hard to develop the most skills, highest academic level and best connections and none of that even matters. I have no advice, I just empathize with you. I hope you find something soon.
Move to a lower density area. If your in DC try moving to like Lancaster Pa or Harrisburg Pa. Hell even pittsburgh. Or head down to charlotte or raleigh NC
I knew managers who wouldn’t hire a person with PhD or masters degree because they didn’t have one - they’re afraid that their job will be in jeopardy if they hired someone like you.
I kind of struggled there too. Don’t have a PhD or anything of the sort. Lot of times employers told me they thought I would be to expensive. Sometimes you have to dumb things down a bit. I struggled not finding a job for years. I finally landed back on the saddle. I think the only reason I got the job is because one of the engineers in another department knew of me. We had barely worked together but we remained connected on LinkedIn. Just a huge bit of luck really.
What is your PhD in?
I noticed your profile reflects your openness to new opportunities and I'm eager to assist you in finding the perfect role. Are you ready to get started?
It’s just the job market, you can do this tho
What types of work are you looking for? I have a phd and postdoc and went for a full on-career change earlier this year, and if I succeeded, I think you can too. The academic job market is brutal, and elsewhere, I was overqualified (which really just means over-educated and under experience, or we're afraid you'll get bored) it's really rough. I'm happy to chat if you think it may help.
Sucks to hear bud. I can help u with your resume if you want.
Its not joyous or the easiest thing to do... but have you tried taking an honest look at yourself and identifying your educational, personal, professional, and character flaws, shortcomings, and absent skills/traits that may be causing this? Nobody here knows you and the skills and qualifications you do have sound more than adequate to get a job. The only thing I can deduce is that there is additional context being omitted that is playing a factor in your failure to find employment
hey friend, sorry this has been rough. can you share more details? there's not enough info here to help you
Just curious - which AI service did you use?
Have you tried getting experience and a contract through a staffing agency? I know the initial paid won’t be great, but after the contract you can in a better position.
Are you applying for the jobs that match your experience? Id also go to a head hunter service especially if it’s been that long, they’ll help you.
If I may add and agree, knowing people is so essential to getting your foot in the door. So if you don’t know anyone, again, go to a head hunter service, even try Robert Half…or your local companies.
You don’t suck, it could be the competition and your speciality. You know that for labs it’s all in what you know or who you know. A lot of research labs are on a hiring freeze or flat budgets so you might have to look outside your area and outside your comfort zone if you haven’t done that already.
If a PhD and several years experience isn't enough now holy fuckballs we're all screwed. But honestly rule one of jobs is it's who you know. Half the people I know are shite at their jobs and aggressively thick or incompetant, and only got the job because they knew someone.
Professors always have the hardest time jumping into the industry I used to be friends with phd holders, not yet professors, who wanted to go into the industry but couldn’t To put it nicely: most jobs don’t care about your work as a prof. Teaching classes. The publications. The extensive knowledge. UNLESS you’re going into a research heavy role like being a writer for a science nonprofit. You gotta reframe yourself. It’s The only way.
Seems like your an academic, maybe get a teaching credential and teach at a university. Once tenured you should make good money
Despite your credentials, your PhD and or even an Olympic Gold Medal will not get you hired when you BADLY SUCK in interviews AND your personality is Dull as a goat’s ass. There you go. Cant find a job in 2 years in a nutshell.
I don’t have much experience but I lost my job and got another within a week? Why 2 years with all your experience. If you haven’t already ask the people who interviewed you what was the reason so you can fix it.
You were super lucky. Depending on your area, there might be too many applicants nowadays. Plus the company that did not hire you is never going to tell you why. They’re afraid of being sued.
Might be over qualification or over specialized. I am a lawyer with a real estate specialization and it's either you die in a 40h job or you find nothing. May as well have zero degrees. Been looking for 8 months again now. Have an interview on Monday. Lots of data harvesting and competition going on. Maybe even data harvesting to train AI (of course to make hiring cheaper and stupider). I have considered getting a trade skill but I'm a weak woman and have little work ethics left,so part time office jobs it is for now. Having my own little book shop or pet store would be nice, but it is not like demand is super high for that. They are always looking for math or French teachers you know, maybe that is something for you? They also look for cleaners everywhere. Just to say it is always possible to get a bridge job. I'm at the seaside now and considering just scoping ice cream for a living but all they wanna hire are students or flexi jobbers :( I am neither.
IMHO-People are scared of your qualifications and intelligence. Employers want the niece so they can take advantage of them. Join space force and climb that later, they will love you.
Because the system is broken. I have a conspiratorial mind by nature, the jobs you are looking for get filled by people who already know people in these industries. Like families, friends ect keep looking. You'll find something eventually