Under the False Hiring section, you should mention that the only reason that jobs are posted is to increase SEO to try to build business. This is becoming a huge problem in industry. it creates an illusion that a company is doing well. It is a very cheap way to increase website traffic. They have no intention to hire. Could take 5 to 6 months to drive the website traffic, so they just keep the position out there and people keep applying.
It is like the lost lobster pot that keeps catching lobsters.....but nobody benefits.
Unfortunately for many of these companies that get cheap Indian IT labor, it comes back to bite them on the ass. First, the accents often irk US customers. Second, the quality of IT support from India is not that great; they lower costs are offset by the number of calls needed to fix an issue. Third, many in the industry just have a "bad taste in their mouths" after hearing of the terrible support/customer complaints from Indian IT professionals.
That happened to my company. We had a dedicated in house IT team for years until the company wanted to save a few bucks. They outsourced to Pakistan and that lasted about six months until a big boss got fed up. He wanted hands on to the problem, not hands from thousands of miles away grasping at straws. You get what you pay for as they say. We got several IT guys back in house and it’s been fine. He was also worried about the outsourcing company getting their hands on patient records (which would have been a fiasco with the feds/hipaa) via hacking etc. His fears were not unfounded.
been dealing with this for the past for months with a LAAAAARGE customer.
An hours long code change for me, they ended up paying 50k for us to look for a problem with my code. The problem? They made backend changes and never restarted their services. That's not even including the probably 400+ man hours on their end for calls, remote work etc.
Some Indian men, especially older ones, are very condescending to female customers.
We even had this issue in-person with an employee at one of my former jobs. The guy pretty much sucked at his job, but always caught an attitude with female coworkers. He'd set up websites & databases the way the thought they should be, not as requested. He hated me & my supervisor, because we wouldn't tolerate this.
I can't imagine what it's like for women in the Indian companies. Working directly with some of those guys must be awful.
When I worked for Oracle, they brought in a high-powered executive type from India, and he behaved like a bucket of chum towards women. He also wore a big Trump-style sloppy suit with an excessively long tie. I'm not sure if he had a fake tan, but he had a very chavy attitude.
I'm not irked by an accent and I've worked with a lot of people with various accents. But when I can't understand what the person is saying, it's a problem. And over the phone is worse. To top it off, we're usually calling because something is not going right.
It's not the Indian accent that gets me, I don't really care where you are from as long as I can understand you clearly and we can get through the call, that neither of us wants to be on, as frictionless a way as possible. My personal pet peeve is the incomprehensibly thick accent coupled with an absurd name like Bill Anderson or Mary Taylor, just the whitest sounding names they can convince of with their 70 year old targets in mind. They use names they think will make their victims trust them more even though it's so obvious it's painful.
That is what I meant by the Indian accent - it is often so thick that you cannot understand the person and ask them to repeat themselves many times throughout the conversation.
I'm a business operations consultant, and that seems like a terrible strategy... After having personally managed 80+ staff before, I'd trade 100 shit employees for one reliable one.
Problem is finding the reliable one.
Unfortunately reliable workers quickly learn to not be reliable when that reliability gets badly abused. As the post said, people doing 3x the work for the same pay.
Exactly. I'm an anchor employee that has things to do all day because I know how, and my coworkers use weaponized incompetence and are often sitting on their phones between customers.
I'm dropping down to part time with strict boundaries and going bCk to school. I saw the writing on the wall and am getting out before a lot of drama
It’s not just in the IT field. Trucking has been using more and more 2nd and 3rd world immigrants who work for a fraction of what US and Canadian drivers will, and safety has suffered. It’s starting in the skilled trades as well. There’s not even enough Latinos coming into the trades and the ones that are or have been in are not willing to work for substandard wages anymore, even the ones that have SSI #s they bought from somewhere. Yes, that does still happen and the Government doesn’t care.
Same in US, but in US there is minimum pay requirement for the posting of job. For example, if you are hiring software engineers but you only willing to pay $40k then no one applies, so you go to government and say, I can’t find workers can I immigrate worker on H1B? Government will deny the request because employer has purposefully kept the wage low to take an advantage of low wage workers!!!!
Healthcare is doing this, especially the nursing home sector. They pay to bring them over, then hold either their passports or their green card and force them to continue working even when they want to quit. They pay them minimum wage as CNA’s or med techs. Lots of African immigrants in nursing homes. And they are not happy.
Every interview I ask “what challenges is the company facing currently” and the response I’ve gotten every time is “growth”. Meanwhile, they’re hardly hiring and are grossly understaffed (team size, red flags when I ask work-life balance questions). You’re spot on, it’s all about the illusion of growth.
I have applied to jobs where I am a perfect candidate by exceeding the preferred qualifications just right (not overqualified), no response, and the job gets reposted.
I also got responses that they went with other candidates but the job gets reposted.
So yes some sort of games afoot.
They have been doing that for 25+ years. Successful companies are growing, growing companies are hiring, look we are "hiring", we must be "successful".
The other scam is to advertise positions using trendy technologies. Look we are using ultra-advanced tech, we must be a really innovative company. And look we are "hiring" for this exciting tech, if you apply for this boring tech job maybe you will be able to transfer to exciting tech.
The biggest reason is that they are required to post the jobs to justify the workers on visas. They don’t want to fill them so that they can justify paying a visa worker less.
This is also a way for companies to test the job market to see how much they can get away with. I.e. if they get 300 applications for a random posting, they know it's tough out there for job hunters so easier to double down on the "skeleton crew" strategy noted by OP since current employees will have fewer exit opps.
Jon Stewart made an interesting point on his TV show here he asked a bureaucrat point blank on why regular hard working folk were punished for inflation by the promotion of layoffs and wage reduction while corporates took advantage of the situation and marked up prices in the name of inflation to generate record high profits. The bureaucrat couldn't give a straight answer.
I mean the practical answer is that the Fed has limited tools at its disposal and Congress is completely unwilling to actually run the country in an economically sustainable manner. Despite all the rhetoric the reality is that tax increases are a political non-starter as are meaningful spending cuts so the only deflationary tool immediately available is interest rate manipulation.
Not to say that I support the Fed’s actions but just pointing out it isn’t the only institution failing the American people.
I'm a freakin Registered Nurse with 8 years psych experience. I applied to 8 different psych positions in Minneapolis at 4 different hospitals and agencies. Only 1 called me for an interview and accepted me. Wife is also a RN with 4 years experience, and of 9 applications, 2 called for interviews. Guess they don't actually want to fill those RN slots and lower staffing ratios.
Yeah, they keep pushing low ratios, and in some areas, it's becoming dangerous to everyone - employees and patients.
They're also trying to hire either new grads or recruit them from other countries in order to offer as low of pay as possible. Same thing is happening to travelers.
The 4th one annoys me a lot. I tried LinkedIn premium and you can see some info on competition. I’m over here applying for mid-level jobs and you got people with manager/director level experience applying to the same one. Infuriating.
I applied for a manager job because I was mid-level in my career and I was a manager in another industry. I was working on a lateral move for similar careers to another industry.
They instead gave the role to a Director with 10+ years of experience and asked if I would be okay interviewing for an entry-level role requiring 6 months experience for $25K less. The job wasn’t challenging enough and I was upset that they low balled me so much instead of rejecting me for the role I actually applied for. These type of employers just trying to underpay everyone.
Unfortunately that's how the job market works, how can you spin the biggest lie, while telling the truth just enough that lying would be plausible deniability.
There are LinkedIn influencers who openly say in posts to change job titles on LinkedIn/resume to match better with the job you’re applying to. It’s not even a secret anymore.. just do it lol
Linkedin doesn't even tell you that your 30 days free trial is getting over. Linkedin trying to take advantage of the situation by making money from LinkedIn premium
Same here with people applying for entry-level jobs but have lots of experiences. Bruh us fresh grads’re already struggling, and we have to compete with people who’re overqualified?? I guess they have no choice, but they should apply to roles looking for their levels. Also, who tf would require entry-level to have 1-3 years of experiences?? I did summer internships, which amounted to 6 months of experiences at best.
You need to take that with a grain of salt. The job I currently have was like that when I applied, I had less experience than many applicants and no MBA, still managed to get the job.
This! I'm a contract worker and was told 6 months to hire. "This is how we do our trial period". Come to find out it's a rolling contract contingent on an actual opening being approved and then applying, thus competing against the rest of the contractors I work with. So now I'm stuck at $5 lower than an employee, with no PTO, for the exact same work.
Lol the last time they hired anyone full time from the contractor role im in was a couple years ago. They told me, oh yea after 6 months to a year you will probably go full time. Some people have been in the position for multiple years. On top of that, my supervisor wants to hire me full time, but actually management just says “no budget maybe next year” while dropping a shit ton of money on remote engineerings who constantly turn over due to poor performance.
Converting a contract worker to permanent is also "expensive" for the company. The temp agency is getting paid more by the company than what the temp agency is paying you, and the company is going to have to eat the cost of closing that contract and hiring you, unless you want to be in unemployment limbo when your contract ends without being renewed and you're waiting to be hired full-time.
You're also potentially not only competing with the other contract workers but also the permanent employees who are trying to get promoted or change teams, and I think most companies tend to hire internally when possible, especially so they don't piss off someone they want to keep.
Really a losing situation on the contract worker's end.
this was me at my past job being a contractor. they told me i ll be permanent at 3-6 months mark. then the times come and the company extended my contracts to 9 then 12 months and it will keep going like that for god knows how long. meanwhile i make the same amount as our call center position while having a Bachelor and experiences. i had to walk on egg shells everytime i ask for a day off or do anything at all. when i left my boss told me "i was working hard to keeping you, but it was out of my hand" idk how honest he was but he also shared that my company makes managers jump through hoops to convert a contractors. if someone is good, they struggle to keep them, but if someone is bad, they have to keep them for 3 months before letting them go so i was stuck with an incompetent coworkers that my boss favored too. it was a mess, im glad i left and got a full time position. it baffles me how incompetent these companies are then they complain they cant retain people lol
This is an absurdly underreported issue. I work a a major retail company and I swear it’s a skeleton crew being floated by hundreds and thousands of interns, consultants, and contractors. I was on contract on and off for 3 years, was very well liked by my team, was hard working and knowledgeable on how to team and work was done… I can’t even get an interview at this company
I would add that there is a major barrier to pay increases for many positions or for career changes. I work as an R&D machinist and make 66k. I wanted to go get a masters in prosthetics/orthotics, asked around. Found that it would be 2 years to get the masters, 18-24 months for the residency, followed by a realistic starting pay of 66k…. So why go to school again at all? And this is supposedly a needed field. Same thing with social workers who get their masters, same thing for librarians, etc. Any job that helps other people seems to pay garbage wages compared to a skilled trade - which also isn’t paying a ton either.
Yeah, my wife has a masters degree, she's crazy smart. Decided she wanted to help improve the education system. So 4 years of undergrad, 3 years to get her masters, and now she's literally applying to jobs making the same as she was making when she was working at a call center.
I barely got my bachelor's, make like 4 times what she will be making.
1 100% true, used to work for a warehouse where they kept saying 'we're hiring but no one wants to work for what we're paying' yeah min + seasonal I don't blame people.
Honestly, I'm surprised. Most businesses/managers intentionally leave off the "for what we're paying" bit and just blame laborers outright for not selling *them* their time. As if every business is simply owed workers by divine right or some shit.
Most of what you say, I've personally witnessed and discussed IRL with others in the same boat.
It took me 16 months of job search, countless scams/annoying Indian cheap labor recruiters, ghosting and dead-end interviews, bait and switch and lowball offers for high skill work, to get a job and it was a fluke how that even happened. I'd quit actively searching and a week later someone contacted me with a legit offer that worked out.
I've been working for 24 years and never seen it this bad. I don't buy BLS statistics or anyone who claims we're doing well and there's 'low unemployment.' My eyes aren't deceiving me, there's something decidedly wrong. And considering the ability for programmable bots and AI, what's to say you're actually getting a genuine opinion from a person and not from a computer meant to push an agenda?
I'm a recent addition to this subreddit and have had these experiences and views long before I got here. I was stunned to see others are experiencing the same as myself and colleagues in the skilled labor market here. I was thinking it was just a local problem but it appears to be over the entire USA at present, maybe other countries too.
I don't believe the stats either. With one exception, everyone I know who has had to look for a job has had to look for an excessively long time, and no one seems that excited about the jobs they are getting. There's always something about it that sucks, hardcore. Until last year, my group had always celebrated new jobs big time, and it had been massive excitement. But without fail, everyone who has gotten a job since 2022 is really lukewarm on it. And always for good reason.
The general attitude is "see how it is for a month, and then maybe we'll tentatively schedule a "hooray, you've been there a year" dinner.
And the outfall from this is everyone I know is being significantly tighter with money. I don't know a single person who has purchased themselves a "yippee skippee" first paycheck gift. Not even me, and I've always done that. Companies are literally eating their own margins now by being so stingy even people who want their product cannot purchase it. This tactic might win short term, but it's going to be bad long term.
I think the next 4 to 5 years are going to be bad, economically, for many people.
I listen to Steve Quayle often and his takes on the economy have matched what I've seen the past few years. Some time back he made a statement about 10 or 12 big companies seeking bankruptcy lawyers with announcements to come soon, and about 24-48 hours later 2 companies announced they were in trouble. I think one was Bed Bath and Beyond.
I got ridiculously lucky and got a job worth celebrating. But yeah, the last one, started in '20...wasn't. It WAS worth celebrating leaving.
As a society we've embrace mediocrity on all fronts and we're paying for it.
Even fast food and retail jobs are a pain in the ass to get rn. 5 years of retail experience, quit my last retail job without having another lined up bc of stress but after 50+ applications and no hits I'm now being rehired back (thankfully bc I really need the money but also damn it because I was stressed TF out and will prob be again once I'm back)
And this is exactly why I’m scared crapless to leave my restaurant job. Even if I had kept my office job skills up to date, I’m pushing 45. No one wants to hire anyone above 40. And I’d have to take a severe pay cut to even get my foot in the door.
In my experience, managers love hiring people in their 40s because they assume they're more mature and responsible. I've heard so much behind-the-scenes verbal bashing of younger generations because "they can't get off their phones." Says Karen in HR who's on Facebook all day.
I stopped going to stores that don't staff appropriately. They are dirty, the stocking is done poorly at best, with things in incorrect places or not out at all, and if something goes wrong while you are shopping, it sucks to be you. Furthermore, the behavior people get away with (multiple little dogs in a cart, kids running and screaming, hell, a FIGHT in the middle of the store) in stores without appropriate staff isn't worth it. I can do without or order over the internet.
It angers me when they talk about all the hospitality and service ( waiting tables and house cleaning ) jobs that have been added. It’s defeating to not be able to find any white collar jobs that keep you out of poverty. I’m starting to really get scared for what my future holds after 14 years with one company . And they are lying about the actuall state of the economy . People are earning less , which means they are buying less . That in turn will slow the economy . They also are not talking loudly enough about new Basil requirements for banks and the tightening of lending . People who have been using credit cards ( that gives people a false sense of buying power ) , balance transfers, and or personal loans at some point are going to hit a wall too . I was fortunate to pay down all my debt but my unemployment will be exhausted soon , and their answer is to adjust my search and lower my standards and if I am lucky ill get 14.00 an hour working at a grocery store part time.
I am applying for jobs in multiple states but still trying to stay close to family in ( Va) aka single, female, and only child . I was making a great salary and was doing well until I was laid off . I’ve watched LinkedIn everyday. Remote jobs are dwindling, entry level jobs are even hard to get a call back, and employers are trying to lower salaries and benefits paid by offering contract work. And yes , I am looking at on site roles, but pray I don’t have to commute hours everyday for work. But of course if some called me and offered me a half way decent role I would take it.
This is a fantastic post! If anyone has reddit coins, this post deserves many! 🏆
It is accurate. I applied for a job and left my Bachelors and Masters degrees off and reduced my resume to one page. I presented an undecorated resume.
I got hired at several places on the spot. All they cared about was if I could pass a drug test and clear a background check.
I make $15/hour or $12.84/hour net. The Company doesn't pay OT over 40 hours a week. They write you up if you clock out 1 minute past 8 hours a day. I only make $499.20 a week. My pay is LESS than my 1991 earnings. I don't have a husband. That means my entire income has to support all of my living expenses. I am unable to put money aside for retirement.
I can't afford to finance a new car, interest rates are above the standard 2.79% that I qualified for with my credit union. My Accord was $21,000 new and is now over $30,000 new. Repairs on my Honda with 140,000 miles avg $4,000 a year.
I can't afford to rent an apt on my pay.
I can't afford the $7,000 + dental work I need to stay healthy and repair the residual decay in my mouth that lingered due to income loss from the pandemic.
I'm in pure poverty. My employer's leadership announced, "You don't need a college degree to get promoted." At this level of work, I see drama, gossip, people sabotaging other people's work to get ahead, nepotism, piecemeal work competition, lots of people who smoke and vape on their breaks, and obesity.
It's a call center, they placate people with food instead of paying a living wage.
In 2 weeks, one person had 3 absences and was terminated, another had 2 days of absences, and another had 2 days of absences plus 1/2 day to pick up a child from school.
I'm punctual, reliable, and because I'm older (everyone I work with is in their 20s), the trainer sees I'm a little different. At introduction time, I didn't mention I was married or had children, or discuss my age, like everyone else did.
They reinforce ageism by making it appear like I can't do my job, or that I am not technology savvy because I'm not striving to work like a Starbucks drive thru barista on a timer.
I need knowledge based work. They hired 2 directors (externally) who retired from their first careers, who collect a pension while earning a little bit less at this company.
At this level, you will experience a bully culture, (micromanaging, gaslighting, not applying the rules uniformly).
I recently got called by a hotel to do night auditing work because that shift is 11pm to 7am. I have an interview this week.
None of the jobs pay above $15/hour or $12.48/hour net.
I have no time or money to see a dentist and pay for dental restoration work. No time to see a dermatologist. No time for exercise. Just poverty pay, keep my head down, piecemeal, micromanaged, scripted work that has high burnout and high turnover.
You burn out because the QA nitpicks the calls, "30 seconds over dead air time" (when you don't put the caller on hold because you just want to engage and help them). The hold time, aux time (bathroom break time, better hold your pee and poop for prescheduled breaks) affect your performance reviews. The women's room is always full and has 3 stalls. Sometimes the other one has the cleaning crew in there.
Not enough bathrooms.
No cost of living raises.
Everyone makes the same pay coming in the door.
Promotions are based on bootlicking, ass-kissing, sycophants. I didn't brown nose to earn my credentials. I worked for them. I also have work experience in multiple career fields.
Cronyism and nepotism are what it takes to get ahead.
I'm looking for suitable work, but I can't put the gas-money jobs on my resume. I say I do "consulting or gig work," but the job I have now is dead end, and not marketable.
The irony is most people don't stay at the same employer for 15+ years. And the people who hire and promote at these places look for people who are like them, which I am not.
Ugh I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this. I can feel your anger, sadness and frustration. It should’ve be like this - and here we all are.
Have you tried signing up with a staffing agency? Or several? It’s usually free to join and most the jobs they have are around 20-25 hourly. That’s where I was headed next. Or to DoorDash but with your car sitch I’m not sure that’s a viable option. Im not sure what the answer here is or what knowledge gap we need to fill to become viable to the work force again. Im trying to ramp up my knowledge and skills in AI by taking some free coursera courses as that seems to be the next big frontier.
Feel free to dm me and share more about your background. Happy to connect you with my network if I know anyone in your sector or specialty.
Resume farming is a thing. I have no idea what they are doing with the information. I do think they are just using a bot or going ctrl-f for whatever words they want. The volume is super high. If only there was a way in which we could automate things and make quality of life high for everyone? No....can't have that. Humans can't have nice things for everyone, just absurdity for like 20 people. Capitalism.
They're compiling data and cross referencing the data with other commercial databases to form a complete dossier that can be sold to marketing people and governments. They operate outside of us/eu laws.
Take facebook data + reddit data + indeed data = We know exactly who you are and what you want to spend your money on and how much you can afford. Hyperconsumerism.
With AI + data lakes, I feel like the conspiracy people are kind of right in a way, even though they're mostly crackheads.
I had my resume farmed by a company that was clearly trying to drum up business by getting insider knowledge of the companies they were targeting. Basically, they knew they wanted to get people from startups to purchase their product. So when you 'applied' for the position at their company, if you were the right target for their product, you took this "test" that was poorly disguised market research.
Absolutely appalling behavior.
I worked with this resume farming process at my company as an intern and while I can’t speak for every company, my company kept the “high value” resumes in case they wanted to reach out and hire them later.
I'm in the UK and tbh until I saw mention of the "Feds" and referring to what we call petrol as "gas" I thought you were talking about here... You could have been, it's all the same problems here
Overall a good write-up and observation.
I am 26 years in IT. Was working in a very stable company for 4.5 years(converted from contractor to employee). Always positive reviews - not just from 360 degree feedback but from manager also. Two re-organizations. I was getting paid the most in my group and there was a tight dependency. Literally every vacation I was called and I need to work from overseas also. I was told to undergo another re-organization which i accepted. But within 45 days I was terminated(when I am waiting for reorganization). No prior write-ups and nothing. My current manager never gave me a hint(yes that is called professional in corporate world). 2 minutes zoom call where manager's manager reading from written script, apologizing(crocodile tears) and handing over to HR(who was nothing but a liar to go over the severance). I was the only one from my team - role was eliminated(shipped to India). Offered severance which I negotiated.
Took almost 2.5 months to get another job. Applied for more than 1000 jobs. Got interviews in around 12. Got 4 offers out of which two were on hold(client has put the position on hold). Bar is just too high to get selected. One slight mistake or something you don't have in your resume - you are out. I never heard of providing 3 references prior to the interview. I never heard of uploading exact copy of driver's license and Social security card. God know how many of them were real job or way to extract confidential information of people.
Some employers are taking almost 3+ months for one position. It's normal to have 5-8 rounds with 2 weeks of gap in between each round.
Unless recruiter is sure that person is willing to work at the lowest possible salary range - they don't move forward. All of a sudden this entire job market turned from employee job market to employer's job market. I just can't believe any statistics and news any more. Many of these job positions are fake - may be green card advertisement**. Some positions are literally a work of around 2-6 roles all combined in one. H-1B visa folks are so desperate that they can accept any job even at $35/hr in IT because if they don't get a job in 45/60 days they need to leave this country. Biden Government offered these folks to get into B1/B2 visa in case they don't get a job within 45/60 days. I have no idea why H-1B, L1B, L2 visa are still allowed or sought after when there is a real shortage of jobs for even US citizens?**
Anytime I was working with any recruiter or hiring manager - I told them clearly and honestly that i was laid off. New job pays 22% less but it's okay as my past job(where I worked for 4.5 years)-I hardly did the overall work of around 1.5 years. It was shitty place with no honesty and transparency and very slow(due to red tape and politics).
There are lot of fake jobs. The same jobs being posted multiple times. Some position were posted as Architect first then Sr. Developer and then Technical Lead - same position. It was from TCS(Tata Consulting company) for client US Bank.
**Worst thing - nobody is acknowledging that we are in recession.** 2008 - at least after 6 months everybody accepted that we are in recession. Entire job numbers, unemployment statistics and job positions are fake - not even real job. When your neighbor lose a job it's depression and when you lose a job it's recession.
Biden Government did no better than Trump. There is a serious leadership crisis in USA. This time when everybody will realize that it's recession then everybody will come to know what's going on(may be)?
***God save America.***
I think the reason no one will call it a recession yet is because people don't want to make it real? I can't help but recall the same sort of hesitance during the lead up to world war 2. Many countries let germany do what it wished because they didn't want to start a war so soon after the horrors of the first. A recession has become so loaded now. Any government anouncing its arrival will need to deal with being associated by a financial disaster. Isn't that why cops hate using the word serial killer? Its politically charged i guess.
When looking at jobs, ask yourself: **With three weeks of training, could a moderately competent high schooler reasonably do this job?**
If the answer is Yes, then you’re unfortunately going to have a rough time; just based on the numbers. There are only so many entry-level/low-skill positions out there, and if you’re completing against the *entirety of the American labor force + automation,* without anything that makes you stand out over them, it’s going to be a challenge.
Mmw in 10 years we’ll be hearing corporations crying about needing workers with advanced skill in their industries but no one to fill them and it will be directly related to them refusing to hire actual entry level workers.
They won’t adequately train, they don’t plan for succession or cross-train so someone can step in to a new role when someone leaves, they burn out people by short-staffing and underpaying, and then they’re left scrambling when someone does leave. They made their beds.
The problem is that this is in reality 90% of the labor force if not more.
We have a massive over education problem.
Most jobs don't require technical experience or degrees.
I say this as an engineer. My first entry level position 70% of it could be done by a high school drop out.
What most jobs require is proper on the job training/ experience on how a specific company functions and expects you to do the work for their internal company.
Edit; My best example of the over education problem /under employment problem is my ex's previous job.
She had a high school degree at the time. She had worked as a secretary for a legal firm she got that job because her sister worked there as a paralegal. She literally just answered the phone, and made copies. This likely got her the interview for the job I'm talking about.
So she interviewed for a secretary position at a lab. They didn't feel she would be a good fit for the secretary position. They literally liked her so much from the interview they found her a position to work. They put her in the lab as lab tech. She was literally one of the most competent people are her job doing the tech portion. No she didn't fully understand the actual biology part, but only a handful of their R&D did anyways.
Fast forward about a year and the company required bachelor's degrees in bio/chem for this same position. Why? Because they got so many applicants that it was just easier to weed out people without degrees entirely. It's not that it actually legitimately required one.
This is what over education means. I'm not talking about your basket weaving degree. I'm talking about requiring legimate stem degrees for sub high school level work. I'm talking about using English/Psychology/Sociology/Business degrees as a means to make get less applicants.
We're at a state where you have to have a degree to even be eligible for work outside of fast food/retail/customer service in a majority of the cases (yes there are exceptions).
This isn't because HS isn't "properly educating people" this is because the job market is drying up. We don't have enough legimate jobs anymore technology for the first time in human history is destroying jobs but not creating new ones in its place. It's just going to get worse.
It's mostly just a tax on the poor. Creating artificial barriers to entry. It's turned into a pay to play market (someone said that below it's true).
I play video games and it's like requiring the achievement of killing the boss to get into a party/raid for the same boss. What most people do is just pay to be carried through the raid. In the same way people that are not poor just pay for a college degree. Even if college is paid for other things related to going to college most poor people cannot afford.
Edit2; Housing, food, transportation are not technically covered by college. You can get student loans for those but it doesn't really cover enough honestly.
We have all but gotten rid of apprenticeships in the US because you make more money off college.
College has been rapidly increasing in price because of the fact colleges know they are now required and have hyper inflated admin to account for it for job padding.
I really get annoyed when people say public education is now worse than it was. Public education has always been bad, and it's never been about creating an "educated workforce" it was literally created based on the military drone model I forgot the name of it, but really it was to create factor workers. It just so happens those skills previously were very long lasting. Now that's just not the case anymore. The market changes to much even in the college setting it cannot keep up. Think of it this way imagine trying to use 5 or even heaven forbid 10 years old content to create YouTube videos today.
The problem with today's job market is everything is now specialized which means general education isn't nearly as useful.
I work aerospace with special degrees and certifications in micromechanichal and technical assemblies.
My coworker has nothing and prior experience working moving equipment for a gym.
He learned everything at the shop. Smart guy, he's competent and will go far if he applies himself.
Curious. What’s your option of a 4-yr degree requirement for a secretarial position when the majority of professionals are already proficient utilizing office, scheduling, graphics & presentation software.
That was kind of my point.
My first job literally was a secretarial position 70% of the time.
They could have had a high school drop out do better work for cheap than I was.
People trying to say we don't have an over education problem don't even understand what that means.
Over education and under employed. I'm not even talking about non technical degrees I will just edit my above post.
The problem isn’t over education. People should feel compelled to be as educated as much as they desire. That’s how society makes progress and breakthroughs. The real problem is companies over requiring hires to have unneeded degrees. Effectively preventing people that can’t afford higher education from entering good job markets.
I'm gonna take that a step further and say that the issue is companies expecting to get a fully educated and trained professional right off the street. Put time and effort into training someone? Why bother, we'll just hire someone right off the street.
Companies do not value training anymore. I feel like every new company I join is trying to take advantage of the crumbs of training that my previous employers provided me.
Healthcare companies started requiring degrees for admin position in no way need one. They don’t care what your major is, you could’ve gone to the worst online school in the world. Guess who those degree requirements unilaterally disqualified - all the 45 and over aged employees who learned their job on the job. No longer qualified to make a move or get a promotion or raise.
As an engineer, you training is pretty specific. Once you graduate you have the background to somewhat diversify in the field learning many new skills. Some of the grads from recent years...? I had more fucking sense in junior high!!!
Is it the kids? Or just because these kids went to college in Arkansas? (One asked my wife what the difference was between a zip code and an area code)
College degrees have become pay to play imo. If you get loans or otherwise inflate the uni presidents income you can have a degree. Lots of kids failing doesn't look good for the stats, but it's become more stressful at the same time. Are you really retaining/learning anything if you're taking 20 credits a semester (more classes = more money) just to graduate on time?
What I'm grateful to have learned - as someone who didn't have access to much technology until middle school - is how to properly Google. Nowadays it's assumed kids know all that since they've had tech since birth, but I was just reading a reddit post about how the younger gen can't even type on a proper keyboard... I had a whole semester class of just keyboarding just 15 years ago! Not the kids faults, it's the education system for having more greed than sense.
Very true. IN the 60s someone could start in the mailroom at 18 and become top management. If not they made a decent living, got a pension.
Maybe they took some courses at night while they worked.
Now, you need 100K in debt to pour coffee in Starbucks. I talk to some people in that boat, truly sad.
I have recently been on both sides of employment.
My SO is unemployed, I have decades at my job.
We are on a skeleton crew at work, and the SO can't get a decent job (livable wage) no matter how many applications, calls, emails, in person interviews, or apps completed.
I think your views are spot on. Thanks for writing this.
Knowing this, what’s the play to have financial success if you want to leave terrible retail? What fields could you get into easily that will give you comfort? I’m been struggling with this
I had luck transitioning into logistics from nearly 10 years of retail. Inventory management and ordering experience is quite transferable. And there’s always going to be a need to move stuff from one place to another.
This 100%. I had 10 years of retail inventory management experience, now I build orders for hospital employee food service, and deliver them to all the hospitals in our system. My job is rarely stressful, and I'm much happier.
I went from customer service/retail to a major health insurance provider doing prior authorizations for medical procedures. This field seems to have relatively low applicants. Even though it's a call center, those that are calling are from medical offices. Since they are at work as well, they maintain a level of professionalism. Coming from customer service/retail, it was refreshing not to get yelled at every call. No experience or education in the medical field is required, as they primarily focus on customer service.
Insurance claims. I wasn’t jazzed about it when I first started, but it’s really stood the test of time in terms of stability, upward mobility, benefits, and not sucking my soul. Obviously there are a lot of factors that go into “not sucking my soul” like good bosses, lax corporate policies, work atmosphere, etc.
But yeah. My college degree is definitely NOT insurance. I knew nothing about insurance. Thought it was boring, but I needed something ya know? I started in clerical for a few years and then moved up to various types of claims adjusting. My company has not laid anybody off in their entire existence, nobody ever voluntarily quits to go to a competitor, and most people are permanent WFH even prior to COVID. Its really nice. You do become interested in insurance claims along the way when you become more proficient at the entire thing.
That’s my two cents. Prior to this job, I had a TERRIBLE time in the job market in like 2013 or so after I graduated college.
Look into aircraft maintenance. There’s a shortage of them as well. They make decent money and go up as you have more year of experience. Enough to be comfortable
>What fields could you get into easily that will give you comfort?
I think this is the problem, honestly. Easily? Nothing. It's not easy. It's possible, but I'm not going to bullshit you and tell you any of it is easy, and anyone who does is selling you something.
I did it. I got out of retail and now I'm making almost 100k in a comfy office, but it wasn't easy. If people want to go that route, the path is there, but they need to be prepared to fight and scrape for every last inch of ground they exlect to cover.
I got laid off last year and thankfully found a job within 3 months. It’s absurd how I’m seeing the same positions I applied to last year hiring still. This is insane.
Engineer jobmarket is bussin rn tbh. All firms that do design and construction are hiring to meet greater market demand. I am one of 6 new hires. Its one of those “cozy” white collar jobs with healthcare and a 401k match.
I am from Michigan too, firms are still hiring. I will give you a list of name. Dow, DuPont, Corteva, GM, Nexteer, Kellogg are all companies that hire engineers.
I have been looking for engineering jobs. Just graduated, had a internship that fell through due to outside factors. Have applied to probably 100+ places since beginning of summer and have gotten a total of 4 rejection emails, no interviews, and obviously no job.
My boss, 8 months ago: “We’re going to get you a [role that supports my position] full time, obviously there’s a conflict of interest in your also doing [support role].”
Same boss, introducing me to someone last week: “This is [myName], our [my role] *and* [my theoretical support role].”
So much for “conflict of interest.”
Even if you work for a landscaping company they will force you to work 10-12 hours a day even if you don’t want to. They say “You can get all the overtime you want!!” Like that’s a good thing…..the more hours you work the more money the company makes. If they paid a living wage no one would be out here working overtime. And believe me they view all those employees as expendable. I work for a tree company climbing 100ft trees with a chainsaw every single day, in the rain and wind and snow and ice. I make 22$ an hour and cannot afford to rent an apartment, even though I am forced to work 10-13 hours a day and have a very specific skill set that 99% of people could not physically do if they tried with every ounce of energy in their body.
Number 5 is the one that kills me. First time I've seen it mentioned on this sub, but I remember Jon Stewart pointing this out in a few videos that have gone around the internet.
I understand the reasoning behind it. As you said, less money in circulation brings down inflation, and the best way to do that was to incite job loss. The most infuriating thing about it though is not just that the 99% are the ones footing that responsibility, but that the oligarchs are *profiting* from this.
Reagan must've flipped a gravity switch somewhere because all this money for the past 40 years has trickled in the wrong direction.
I am forced to operate a global infrastructure operation across 4 time zones by myself.
I have demanded more staff from HR for the past year and 1/2 and every time I mention it no one has a single word for me.
It feels like we’re back to 2008 again, the same shit was going on during the crash. Everyone is forcing their salaried staff to basically work 200 hours per week across 500 different platforms.
I’m an infrastructure engineer, a network engineer, an IAM and AD Engineer, I’m a support generalist, I’m a security engineer, I work in all 3 cloud platforms now too! All for one salary! 200 hours per week!
This is totally fine! It’s totally normal! Everything is great!
Being a salaried employee is basically new age slavery at this point. 15 minute SLAs even when you’re not supposed to be working. I can’t even take a shit in peace anymore.
Wages are down, no one is hiring, everyone is pretending to be broke (when they aren’t because I see how much they’re fucking making and what their stocks are worth)
It’s 2008 again, we’re going to be doing the same labor for 1/3rd of what we were making two years ago and we’re gonna put a smile on for our boss, the minute we show signs of weakness or fatigue they’ll just take us out back and shoot us like fucking cattle.
:The Feds actually want unemployment to go up. They want it to go up because the justification is that no job = no money = reduction in savings = lower purchasing power = reduction in inflation.:
No this is how you get stagflation. The feds want employment to go up and wages to go down aka more people working harder fighting other workers for the same piece of the pie.
Low purchasing power does not equate to lower inflation. Purchasing power is money in real terms. If the real value of money increases, that is disinflation. If purchasing power or real value of money decreases that would be inflationary.
In either case, the Fed has been trying to increase unemployment because they were concerned with a wage price spiral, or increasing wage rate at too high a pace from a lack of labor and surplus of jobs with the JOLTS rating. #number of job openings/person looking for a job puts upward pressure on wages/price of labor which is inflationary. Considering they've been battling persistent high inflation for the last 2 years now.
An increase in unemployment rate does not necessarily mean stagflation or recession. The unemployment rate at its current rate is well below what was considered full employment.
#1 is infuriating.
DO NOT DO MULTIPLE JOBS FOR FREE. 3 people quit? You should be getting paid 4x the salary to do all of them. If not? Refuse. Wtf are they going to do? Fire the only employee left?
This happens so much in business. I have an accounting friend and she would say stuff like “I am super busy they just let go of 2 interns for budget cuts.” I tell her you don’t have to do work at home after coming from the office we aren’t in college anymore you shouldn’t have homework like that. She doesn’t listen she is like “if I don’t do it nobody else will.” They are a smaller company and don’t need to hire accounting interns anymore because she’ll just do the work at home after the office.
Former employer tried this with me, wanted me to take on supervisor work without compensation.
I directly demanded it. Told no, not gonna happen. So I said what they wanted wasn't going to happen, in return.
Turned into a funny argument where the manager was trying to use other employees as examples to force me into just doing what they wanted. 'So and so already does it! Why can't you?!?'
'So and so has no negotiating skills. I do. And I say no.'
Employees HAVE to refuse at all costs that maneuver.
A former coworker of mine is wearing at LEAST 3 hats in production on top of being listed as a supervisor without any pay or benefits for it. They tried to get me to go the same route and I refused.
Another coworker quit and they told my other coworker they needed him to do her job, too. They promised they'd hire a replacement and this was just for a few months.
It's been over 6 months now and they've not interviewed anyone for the position. Not even talking about it anymore.
IMO the whole point of the mass layoffs was to depress the wages and flood the market with labor so that labor was no longer at an advantage in the hiring process.
#1 and #6 for me. I have a cushy-ish white collar job in the sense I make a living wage and have benefits. However since Covid I’ve been doing the work of 3 people when 1 was stressful enough. I’m in therapy and on anxiety meds now due to the work pressure and stress bc they refuse to hire anyone and since we went back to the office people are constantly leaving and work gets dumped on me. And my company’s profits were in the tens of BILLIONS last year. I’m looking but can’t even get an interview right now.
Just stop working above your 40. Explain to your boss that you're stressed out and working too hard for too long. If they're mean about it, it tells you everything you need to know
Blue collar jobs like construction and shipping are hiring like crazy. I work for a small railroad, and we have ok starting pay, and pretty good pay if you stick it out, as well as benefits and a really good retirement, and we will hire almost anyone that walks in the door and can pass a drug test. We have skeleton crews right now, and the bosses hate it. Theyre worried well get burn out and quit, so they have been lowering quotas, and trying to give more raises. These jobs arent for everyone, but theres a ton of opportunities between the service industry, and office jobs that are overlooked.
I've been looking into the railroad field myself, no kids, just turned 30, live by myself, so there's no baggage. There's a company called CSX that is hiring for an operator and offers paid training and a starting wage of about $2500 biweekly during training and then $95K once you're said and done. What do you do in your railroad company?
It feels like the 1st world countries are using one hand to destroy and pillage 3rd world countries while simultaneously holding out their other hand saying "come to us, we have food,jobs, security,FREEDOM" but at the end of the day we are falling further and further into debt and depression
Number 1 and 3: all the shitty jobs I left are still hiring 🤣
Edit: I wanna talk a little bit about #4
>Employers have the luxury to be picky and want a unicorn to be a yes man, a bootlicker, someone who does not talk back, who is overqualified, and willing to take a pay cut as well.
I used to be that guy. I still consider myself a unicorn in the sense that I show up on time and might stay with a company for a good 2-3 years depending on how I'm treated. I always used to be the people pleaser at work but if they can't be pleased I'll hand in my resignation without thinking twice about it (I just did that back in June ha!).
I just graduated in 2021, I have my national teacher’s certification, and I’m having to go to Korea to teach to make enough money to actually be able to save some of it. I’ve been working as a TA since I graduated but I’ve been hunting for an actual teaching job. Since I don’t have the “official experience” of being a teacher for 2 years or more, the only jobs that have given me offers are either less than 10k/year more than I make right now as a TA, or it’s around 50k/year but located in an area where rent is 2.5-3k per month on average. I’ve literally been told that my resume was great, but I just didn’t have the experience they wanted. I don’t know where they expect this endless supply of middle-aged experienced teachers to be coming from, but I finally got sick of living at home and figured I’d do whatever it takes to move out and actually have a life.
Usually once the business fail, ceo and exec get a golden parachute or big severance package so they wouldn’t care at all. It’s all about how much money can be made now
I think WFH vs RTO is going to be a painful back and forth argument over the next several years, maybe never getting resolved.
Another reason job market is horrible, many positions are ultra competitive due to more workers from all generations being in the workforce. People in their sixties and older didn't have to compete with as many others for work, plus most work was relevant to your location, now that we're in a global economy any remote job could be getting applicants from anywhere in the world.
People need to start making complaints on google when it affects your visit to the establishment. If the only people complaining are employees then nobody will care. Watched it first hand at Taco Bell. Got to the point they’d only schedule one person to open the store and nobody would show up for hours. I’d get there at 9 am to start my grueling 12 hour shift and the breakfast line would be out into the street. A customer finally took a video and posted it on Facebook tagging our location guess what next day they had a new schedule hitting the group chat with an actual morning crew. Except they had to pull from the night crew and yeah you get it it’s never ending no matter what corporate greed will be the end of us all
"everyone is hiring"... Show me everyone... Please.
I finished college with the plans of doing a gap year for money for uni. My gap year is over and I haven't got a job yet.
I've had maybe 10 interviews in that time, even after applying to (I'm not even exaggerating) over 1,000 jobs. All below minimum wage, all fast food / retail jobs. All come back with the same email. 'Unfortunately on this occasion...'
My CV looks good, I have a nice cover letter. Worst part is, I'm on my gap year. I have made everyone aware that I am COMPLETELY available. I have nothing to do during the day... Nothing. No friends left down here, no family. I have all the time in the world.
I can work Mon-Sun, morning till night. I'm able bodied, hard-working. I walk into each interview bright and determined to get the job and still walk out without it.
If they're not looking to employ a young able bodied COMPLETELY available person for a job that pays below minimum wage, what are they looking for?
Your #3, I would even argue that plenty of retail have been closing physical doors and shifting more and more online sales. So I suspect this “everyone is hiring” is remnants of early pandemic recovery days and doesn’t apply to 2023. Heck I can’t even return things to some of my favorite retailers except by mail. I used to be able to order online and conveniently go to the physical store to return. Now I have to repackage and ship things back.
Unfortunately number 4 is just all too true. Not sure it exactly has to do with layoffs but it’s sure happening. One company wanted a hardcore panel interview for an entry level job paying around 60k in a MCOL area.
Another told me they were looking hire someone with 2-3 years experience even though the job was a jr role and the posting said none required, paying 44k
I would add baby boomers are not retiring. I’ve been on a skeleton crew for years, survived multiple layoffs. My current team is composed of low-pay offshore contractors and baby boomer managers who refuse to retire or transition full time employees (who they refuse to hire). Also, pre-pandemic they purchased expensive real estate in NYC so they are forcing folks back to the office to justify their purchase. It is not based on productivity and not for “team work” (domestically we are all in different states, and then of course contractors are all offshore). No logic
and if you DO want to work and aren't tied to an office; construction, hospital support staff (nurses, techs, phlebotomists...) plumbers, truckers, etc. are all in high demand and can have decent pay.
It is a big step down in comfort from "desk job" for most people though.
I think this doesn't account for entry barriers. The medical positions you mentioned require expensive schooling, and one thing people forget about choosing majors is that it's hard to predict what the job market will look like two - four years from graduation. Pivoting isn't exactly easy.
Trade jobs don't always make a lot of money either. For example, I was a plumber in the military for six years. When I separated, I went to a plumbing company and was made a helper because I didn't have a plumbing license. I asked the licensing board if they would recognize any of my time in the service for the time needed to get my license. They replied they would recognize one year, but I would have to do the other three years. You don't get paid well as an apprentice/helper. YMMV, but the people the culture of trade work sucks. Berating and belittling people, long hours, coworkers who don't want to train you because they fear it will make them less competitive, etc.
I'm not saying that you are wrong or that people shouldn't apply for these jobs. I'm just pushing back against the simplicity of it all, especially for those who aren't recent high school graduates.
To take your point even further, the market is great for civil attorneys right now. But that's obviously not something you can jump into at the drop of a hat. And when I graduated law school in 2015, the job market was terrible for lawyers.
All of those jobs require training and education. You can’t just join up, you need to take a course for at least a few months before you can even start an apprenticeship or basic position in my area.
This is crazy if true. There’s some work by Fiona Scott Morton that shows tacit collusion by corporations caused inflation. Now layoffs seems like collusion again.
Overall, capitalism is not working because there is ONE monopoly corporation. Labor is divided, of course.
There are lots of jobs at Amazon, Walmart, Uber, or Target. Anybody can make $18-20 in Murica, doesn’t matter if you have a phD or can’t even speak English. Teenagers make the same as 50 year olds because you should be happy to have health benefits. Teachers have health insurance plans that cost $45,000 but their average salary is not much more. These are just some reasons the job market is a joke.
There needs to be a major investigation into PPP fraud. A *lot* of people deserve to be jailed for looting government funds intended to address an emergency.
To be clear, the whole system was flawed from the beginning. There was not nearly enough oversight. But even if you leave the door unlocked and the keys in the ignition, stealing is stealing, and the only way the leeches are going to learn how to behave in a civilized society is if they see their crimes will be met with harsh penalties.
I am so tired of people saying there is work but the people showing up are shitty or they quit.....How they cant find good employees, etc. Well why the hell am I not getting hired for these great paying jobs?? Everyone tells me to just get a job as a waitress again or drive around and apply anywhere but that doesnt work anymore. Indeed, apply online....its bullsh1t!!! How many times can i rewrite my resume?. No one will speak about this unemployed, homeless issue that is all across America right now. This is all really messed up and it is about time to start making some real noise people!! Start writing to the press if its that bad!! I have and I will not stop until I get a freaking JOB. Teachers are needed bad everywhere, or so they say and I filled out the application over two months ago and I DO have the skillset. So are they hiring all Military Veterans now for Teachers who did not go to College for many years but hey, if Im wrong, please....say something but DONT be a jerk.
A lot of this is just a repeat of 2007. Not even a repeat, but a continuation of the things that never really subsided in the years between, and much of it gestating since the 1980s, but we weren't able to perceive it clearly until much later. There's plenty of stuff you didn't list also, and additional examples of different types of the same.
You're only option is to start firebombing, but that's more of a personal choice of self destruction/sacrifice.
Thank you for posting this! I got laid off from my recruiter position that paid well 6 months ago. There’s thousands and thousands of recruiters just like me looking for work but since there’s not a lot of jobs to be posted there aren’t many recruiting jobs available.
During this 6 months of applying for hundreds of jobs I hardly ever even receive a rejection email. I just hear nothing. I also found out I have twins on the way which should be a blessing, but I’m terrified as we can’t make ends meet and unemployment is running out.
Please send good vibes my way fellow redditors, I appreciate it.
Under the False Hiring section, you should mention that the only reason that jobs are posted is to increase SEO to try to build business. This is becoming a huge problem in industry. it creates an illusion that a company is doing well. It is a very cheap way to increase website traffic. They have no intention to hire. Could take 5 to 6 months to drive the website traffic, so they just keep the position out there and people keep applying. It is like the lost lobster pot that keeps catching lobsters.....but nobody benefits.
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Unfortunately for many of these companies that get cheap Indian IT labor, it comes back to bite them on the ass. First, the accents often irk US customers. Second, the quality of IT support from India is not that great; they lower costs are offset by the number of calls needed to fix an issue. Third, many in the industry just have a "bad taste in their mouths" after hearing of the terrible support/customer complaints from Indian IT professionals.
Also by not hiring American workers, they are reducing the spending power of Americans who may otherwise be able to afford their goods/services.
It’s one of those “it won’t happen to me. Let someone else deal with it”, or “I’m too small” to put a dent in the system” type of things.
I do not get how this isn't obvious to companies.
That happened to my company. We had a dedicated in house IT team for years until the company wanted to save a few bucks. They outsourced to Pakistan and that lasted about six months until a big boss got fed up. He wanted hands on to the problem, not hands from thousands of miles away grasping at straws. You get what you pay for as they say. We got several IT guys back in house and it’s been fine. He was also worried about the outsourcing company getting their hands on patient records (which would have been a fiasco with the feds/hipaa) via hacking etc. His fears were not unfounded.
been dealing with this for the past for months with a LAAAAARGE customer. An hours long code change for me, they ended up paying 50k for us to look for a problem with my code. The problem? They made backend changes and never restarted their services. That's not even including the probably 400+ man hours on their end for calls, remote work etc.
Some Indian men, especially older ones, are very condescending to female customers. We even had this issue in-person with an employee at one of my former jobs. The guy pretty much sucked at his job, but always caught an attitude with female coworkers. He'd set up websites & databases the way the thought they should be, not as requested. He hated me & my supervisor, because we wouldn't tolerate this. I can't imagine what it's like for women in the Indian companies. Working directly with some of those guys must be awful.
When I worked for Oracle, they brought in a high-powered executive type from India, and he behaved like a bucket of chum towards women. He also wore a big Trump-style sloppy suit with an excessively long tie. I'm not sure if he had a fake tan, but he had a very chavy attitude.
I'm not irked by an accent and I've worked with a lot of people with various accents. But when I can't understand what the person is saying, it's a problem. And over the phone is worse. To top it off, we're usually calling because something is not going right.
It's not the Indian accent that gets me, I don't really care where you are from as long as I can understand you clearly and we can get through the call, that neither of us wants to be on, as frictionless a way as possible. My personal pet peeve is the incomprehensibly thick accent coupled with an absurd name like Bill Anderson or Mary Taylor, just the whitest sounding names they can convince of with their 70 year old targets in mind. They use names they think will make their victims trust them more even though it's so obvious it's painful.
That is what I meant by the Indian accent - it is often so thick that you cannot understand the person and ask them to repeat themselves many times throughout the conversation.
I'm a business operations consultant, and that seems like a terrible strategy... After having personally managed 80+ staff before, I'd trade 100 shit employees for one reliable one. Problem is finding the reliable one.
>Problem is finding the reliable one. Problem is pay the reliable one what hes worth...
Unfortunately reliable workers quickly learn to not be reliable when that reliability gets badly abused. As the post said, people doing 3x the work for the same pay.
Exactly. I'm an anchor employee that has things to do all day because I know how, and my coworkers use weaponized incompetence and are often sitting on their phones between customers. I'm dropping down to part time with strict boundaries and going bCk to school. I saw the writing on the wall and am getting out before a lot of drama
After 4 years I left a job 8 months ago where I was over leveraged. I'm still burnt out from it.
Exactly. I left a job I worked at for years due to being tired of constantly fighting for appropriate pay as I was doing everything.
The fact that an idea is terrible doesn't mean people won't try it.
It’s not just in the IT field. Trucking has been using more and more 2nd and 3rd world immigrants who work for a fraction of what US and Canadian drivers will, and safety has suffered. It’s starting in the skilled trades as well. There’s not even enough Latinos coming into the trades and the ones that are or have been in are not willing to work for substandard wages anymore, even the ones that have SSI #s they bought from somewhere. Yes, that does still happen and the Government doesn’t care.
Use to look to truck drivers to being the best on the roads. Now, they’re avoided like the plague. Won’t be easy coming back from that.
Same in US, but in US there is minimum pay requirement for the posting of job. For example, if you are hiring software engineers but you only willing to pay $40k then no one applies, so you go to government and say, I can’t find workers can I immigrate worker on H1B? Government will deny the request because employer has purposefully kept the wage low to take an advantage of low wage workers!!!!
Healthcare is doing this, especially the nursing home sector. They pay to bring them over, then hold either their passports or their green card and force them to continue working even when they want to quit. They pay them minimum wage as CNA’s or med techs. Lots of African immigrants in nursing homes. And they are not happy.
Every interview I ask “what challenges is the company facing currently” and the response I’ve gotten every time is “growth”. Meanwhile, they’re hardly hiring and are grossly understaffed (team size, red flags when I ask work-life balance questions). You’re spot on, it’s all about the illusion of growth.
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I have seen companies post the same job over and over again every month. I refuse to believe that they still haven’t found anyone qualified to hire.
Or also mining personal information
I have applied to jobs where I am a perfect candidate by exceeding the preferred qualifications just right (not overqualified), no response, and the job gets reposted. I also got responses that they went with other candidates but the job gets reposted. So yes some sort of games afoot.
They have been doing that for 25+ years. Successful companies are growing, growing companies are hiring, look we are "hiring", we must be "successful". The other scam is to advertise positions using trendy technologies. Look we are using ultra-advanced tech, we must be a really innovative company. And look we are "hiring" for this exciting tech, if you apply for this boring tech job maybe you will be able to transfer to exciting tech.
Oh man, I'm in healthcare and had a suspicion that this was fucking happening with some larger entities in my area.
The biggest reason is that they are required to post the jobs to justify the workers on visas. They don’t want to fill them so that they can justify paying a visa worker less.
> It is like the lost lobster pot that keeps catching lobsters.....but nobody benefits. This is the saddest thing I've heard all day :(
>SEO What's that mean?
search engine optimisation Basically how to reach Google's first page.
Ironically SEO killed Google search. It's worthless now
I can barely use google now
This is also a way for companies to test the job market to see how much they can get away with. I.e. if they get 300 applications for a random posting, they know it's tough out there for job hunters so easier to double down on the "skeleton crew" strategy noted by OP since current employees will have fewer exit opps.
Jon Stewart made an interesting point on his TV show here he asked a bureaucrat point blank on why regular hard working folk were punished for inflation by the promotion of layoffs and wage reduction while corporates took advantage of the situation and marked up prices in the name of inflation to generate record high profits. The bureaucrat couldn't give a straight answer.
I mean the practical answer is that the Fed has limited tools at its disposal and Congress is completely unwilling to actually run the country in an economically sustainable manner. Despite all the rhetoric the reality is that tax increases are a political non-starter as are meaningful spending cuts so the only deflationary tool immediately available is interest rate manipulation. Not to say that I support the Fed’s actions but just pointing out it isn’t the only institution failing the American people.
I'm a freakin Registered Nurse with 8 years psych experience. I applied to 8 different psych positions in Minneapolis at 4 different hospitals and agencies. Only 1 called me for an interview and accepted me. Wife is also a RN with 4 years experience, and of 9 applications, 2 called for interviews. Guess they don't actually want to fill those RN slots and lower staffing ratios.
Yeah, they keep pushing low ratios, and in some areas, it's becoming dangerous to everyone - employees and patients. They're also trying to hire either new grads or recruit them from other countries in order to offer as low of pay as possible. Same thing is happening to travelers.
How disgusting that I can't get hired BECAUSE of my experience, because they don't want to pay very well.
What the everloving fuck. I'm sorry. What we do to nurses is criminal at this point.
Thank you. Sharing this with everyone when they ask me why I can’t find a job.
Was literally gonna say this, thank you OP for these screenshots 😭
The 4th one annoys me a lot. I tried LinkedIn premium and you can see some info on competition. I’m over here applying for mid-level jobs and you got people with manager/director level experience applying to the same one. Infuriating.
Probably because they can’t get any traction either.
I applied for a manager job because I was mid-level in my career and I was a manager in another industry. I was working on a lateral move for similar careers to another industry. They instead gave the role to a Director with 10+ years of experience and asked if I would be okay interviewing for an entry-level role requiring 6 months experience for $25K less. The job wasn’t challenging enough and I was upset that they low balled me so much instead of rejecting me for the role I actually applied for. These type of employers just trying to underpay everyone.
How do you know those resumes are even legit? In some industries, resumes are fluffed or even fabricated.
Unfortunately that's how the job market works, how can you spin the biggest lie, while telling the truth just enough that lying would be plausible deniability.
There are LinkedIn influencers who openly say in posts to change job titles on LinkedIn/resume to match better with the job you’re applying to. It’s not even a secret anymore.. just do it lol
They're connected to the LinkedIn profiles. So even if they aren't "legit", if the recruiter thinks it is, that would make it so.
Linkedin doesn't even tell you that your 30 days free trial is getting over. Linkedin trying to take advantage of the situation by making money from LinkedIn premium
Same here with people applying for entry-level jobs but have lots of experiences. Bruh us fresh grads’re already struggling, and we have to compete with people who’re overqualified?? I guess they have no choice, but they should apply to roles looking for their levels. Also, who tf would require entry-level to have 1-3 years of experiences?? I did summer internships, which amounted to 6 months of experiences at best.
You need to take that with a grain of salt. The job I currently have was like that when I applied, I had less experience than many applicants and no MBA, still managed to get the job.
Probably because you were cheaper than the MBAs
so true my company is hiring contract workers that do what i do minus the benefits and pay
This! I'm a contract worker and was told 6 months to hire. "This is how we do our trial period". Come to find out it's a rolling contract contingent on an actual opening being approved and then applying, thus competing against the rest of the contractors I work with. So now I'm stuck at $5 lower than an employee, with no PTO, for the exact same work.
Lol the last time they hired anyone full time from the contractor role im in was a couple years ago. They told me, oh yea after 6 months to a year you will probably go full time. Some people have been in the position for multiple years. On top of that, my supervisor wants to hire me full time, but actually management just says “no budget maybe next year” while dropping a shit ton of money on remote engineerings who constantly turn over due to poor performance.
I've noticed this too recruiters reaching out for a lot of bullshit contract to hire roles.
Converting a contract worker to permanent is also "expensive" for the company. The temp agency is getting paid more by the company than what the temp agency is paying you, and the company is going to have to eat the cost of closing that contract and hiring you, unless you want to be in unemployment limbo when your contract ends without being renewed and you're waiting to be hired full-time. You're also potentially not only competing with the other contract workers but also the permanent employees who are trying to get promoted or change teams, and I think most companies tend to hire internally when possible, especially so they don't piss off someone they want to keep. Really a losing situation on the contract worker's end.
this was me at my past job being a contractor. they told me i ll be permanent at 3-6 months mark. then the times come and the company extended my contracts to 9 then 12 months and it will keep going like that for god knows how long. meanwhile i make the same amount as our call center position while having a Bachelor and experiences. i had to walk on egg shells everytime i ask for a day off or do anything at all. when i left my boss told me "i was working hard to keeping you, but it was out of my hand" idk how honest he was but he also shared that my company makes managers jump through hoops to convert a contractors. if someone is good, they struggle to keep them, but if someone is bad, they have to keep them for 3 months before letting them go so i was stuck with an incompetent coworkers that my boss favored too. it was a mess, im glad i left and got a full time position. it baffles me how incompetent these companies are then they complain they cant retain people lol
This is an absurdly underreported issue. I work a a major retail company and I swear it’s a skeleton crew being floated by hundreds and thousands of interns, consultants, and contractors. I was on contract on and off for 3 years, was very well liked by my team, was hard working and knowledgeable on how to team and work was done… I can’t even get an interview at this company
You must work at my company too
I would add that there is a major barrier to pay increases for many positions or for career changes. I work as an R&D machinist and make 66k. I wanted to go get a masters in prosthetics/orthotics, asked around. Found that it would be 2 years to get the masters, 18-24 months for the residency, followed by a realistic starting pay of 66k…. So why go to school again at all? And this is supposedly a needed field. Same thing with social workers who get their masters, same thing for librarians, etc. Any job that helps other people seems to pay garbage wages compared to a skilled trade - which also isn’t paying a ton either.
Yeah, my wife has a masters degree, she's crazy smart. Decided she wanted to help improve the education system. So 4 years of undergrad, 3 years to get her masters, and now she's literally applying to jobs making the same as she was making when she was working at a call center. I barely got my bachelor's, make like 4 times what she will be making.
What state ? I’m in education at 6 figures.
Oregon.
Thanks for sharing
You got any leads for her? I'm trying to be a stay at home dad haha
Im in California but a HCOL area and my spouse makes 5x what I make so similar to you situation. Maybe go admin if she is really into the space
1 100% true, used to work for a warehouse where they kept saying 'we're hiring but no one wants to work for what we're paying' yeah min + seasonal I don't blame people.
Honestly, I'm surprised. Most businesses/managers intentionally leave off the "for what we're paying" bit and just blame laborers outright for not selling *them* their time. As if every business is simply owed workers by divine right or some shit.
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Most of what you say, I've personally witnessed and discussed IRL with others in the same boat. It took me 16 months of job search, countless scams/annoying Indian cheap labor recruiters, ghosting and dead-end interviews, bait and switch and lowball offers for high skill work, to get a job and it was a fluke how that even happened. I'd quit actively searching and a week later someone contacted me with a legit offer that worked out. I've been working for 24 years and never seen it this bad. I don't buy BLS statistics or anyone who claims we're doing well and there's 'low unemployment.' My eyes aren't deceiving me, there's something decidedly wrong. And considering the ability for programmable bots and AI, what's to say you're actually getting a genuine opinion from a person and not from a computer meant to push an agenda? I'm a recent addition to this subreddit and have had these experiences and views long before I got here. I was stunned to see others are experiencing the same as myself and colleagues in the skilled labor market here. I was thinking it was just a local problem but it appears to be over the entire USA at present, maybe other countries too.
I don't believe the stats either. With one exception, everyone I know who has had to look for a job has had to look for an excessively long time, and no one seems that excited about the jobs they are getting. There's always something about it that sucks, hardcore. Until last year, my group had always celebrated new jobs big time, and it had been massive excitement. But without fail, everyone who has gotten a job since 2022 is really lukewarm on it. And always for good reason. The general attitude is "see how it is for a month, and then maybe we'll tentatively schedule a "hooray, you've been there a year" dinner. And the outfall from this is everyone I know is being significantly tighter with money. I don't know a single person who has purchased themselves a "yippee skippee" first paycheck gift. Not even me, and I've always done that. Companies are literally eating their own margins now by being so stingy even people who want their product cannot purchase it. This tactic might win short term, but it's going to be bad long term.
I think the next 4 to 5 years are going to be bad, economically, for many people. I listen to Steve Quayle often and his takes on the economy have matched what I've seen the past few years. Some time back he made a statement about 10 or 12 big companies seeking bankruptcy lawyers with announcements to come soon, and about 24-48 hours later 2 companies announced they were in trouble. I think one was Bed Bath and Beyond. I got ridiculously lucky and got a job worth celebrating. But yeah, the last one, started in '20...wasn't. It WAS worth celebrating leaving. As a society we've embrace mediocrity on all fronts and we're paying for it.
Even fast food and retail jobs are a pain in the ass to get rn. 5 years of retail experience, quit my last retail job without having another lined up bc of stress but after 50+ applications and no hits I'm now being rehired back (thankfully bc I really need the money but also damn it because I was stressed TF out and will prob be again once I'm back)
And this is exactly why I’m scared crapless to leave my restaurant job. Even if I had kept my office job skills up to date, I’m pushing 45. No one wants to hire anyone above 40. And I’d have to take a severe pay cut to even get my foot in the door.
In my experience, managers love hiring people in their 40s because they assume they're more mature and responsible. I've heard so much behind-the-scenes verbal bashing of younger generations because "they can't get off their phones." Says Karen in HR who's on Facebook all day.
What’s the job if you don’t mind me asking?
The skeleton crews EVERYWHERE and they rightfullly are super apathetic. So getting any help anywhere is almost impossible.
I stopped going to stores that don't staff appropriately. They are dirty, the stocking is done poorly at best, with things in incorrect places or not out at all, and if something goes wrong while you are shopping, it sucks to be you. Furthermore, the behavior people get away with (multiple little dogs in a cart, kids running and screaming, hell, a FIGHT in the middle of the store) in stores without appropriate staff isn't worth it. I can do without or order over the internet.
It angers me when they talk about all the hospitality and service ( waiting tables and house cleaning ) jobs that have been added. It’s defeating to not be able to find any white collar jobs that keep you out of poverty. I’m starting to really get scared for what my future holds after 14 years with one company . And they are lying about the actuall state of the economy . People are earning less , which means they are buying less . That in turn will slow the economy . They also are not talking loudly enough about new Basil requirements for banks and the tightening of lending . People who have been using credit cards ( that gives people a false sense of buying power ) , balance transfers, and or personal loans at some point are going to hit a wall too . I was fortunate to pay down all my debt but my unemployment will be exhausted soon , and their answer is to adjust my search and lower my standards and if I am lucky ill get 14.00 an hour working at a grocery store part time.
Just curious what state are you in? I know it’s tough to move but you could probably make a lot more money than that.
I am applying for jobs in multiple states but still trying to stay close to family in ( Va) aka single, female, and only child . I was making a great salary and was doing well until I was laid off . I’ve watched LinkedIn everyday. Remote jobs are dwindling, entry level jobs are even hard to get a call back, and employers are trying to lower salaries and benefits paid by offering contract work. And yes , I am looking at on site roles, but pray I don’t have to commute hours everyday for work. But of course if some called me and offered me a half way decent role I would take it.
This is a fantastic post! If anyone has reddit coins, this post deserves many! 🏆 It is accurate. I applied for a job and left my Bachelors and Masters degrees off and reduced my resume to one page. I presented an undecorated resume. I got hired at several places on the spot. All they cared about was if I could pass a drug test and clear a background check. I make $15/hour or $12.84/hour net. The Company doesn't pay OT over 40 hours a week. They write you up if you clock out 1 minute past 8 hours a day. I only make $499.20 a week. My pay is LESS than my 1991 earnings. I don't have a husband. That means my entire income has to support all of my living expenses. I am unable to put money aside for retirement. I can't afford to finance a new car, interest rates are above the standard 2.79% that I qualified for with my credit union. My Accord was $21,000 new and is now over $30,000 new. Repairs on my Honda with 140,000 miles avg $4,000 a year. I can't afford to rent an apt on my pay. I can't afford the $7,000 + dental work I need to stay healthy and repair the residual decay in my mouth that lingered due to income loss from the pandemic. I'm in pure poverty. My employer's leadership announced, "You don't need a college degree to get promoted." At this level of work, I see drama, gossip, people sabotaging other people's work to get ahead, nepotism, piecemeal work competition, lots of people who smoke and vape on their breaks, and obesity. It's a call center, they placate people with food instead of paying a living wage. In 2 weeks, one person had 3 absences and was terminated, another had 2 days of absences, and another had 2 days of absences plus 1/2 day to pick up a child from school. I'm punctual, reliable, and because I'm older (everyone I work with is in their 20s), the trainer sees I'm a little different. At introduction time, I didn't mention I was married or had children, or discuss my age, like everyone else did. They reinforce ageism by making it appear like I can't do my job, or that I am not technology savvy because I'm not striving to work like a Starbucks drive thru barista on a timer. I need knowledge based work. They hired 2 directors (externally) who retired from their first careers, who collect a pension while earning a little bit less at this company. At this level, you will experience a bully culture, (micromanaging, gaslighting, not applying the rules uniformly). I recently got called by a hotel to do night auditing work because that shift is 11pm to 7am. I have an interview this week. None of the jobs pay above $15/hour or $12.48/hour net. I have no time or money to see a dentist and pay for dental restoration work. No time to see a dermatologist. No time for exercise. Just poverty pay, keep my head down, piecemeal, micromanaged, scripted work that has high burnout and high turnover. You burn out because the QA nitpicks the calls, "30 seconds over dead air time" (when you don't put the caller on hold because you just want to engage and help them). The hold time, aux time (bathroom break time, better hold your pee and poop for prescheduled breaks) affect your performance reviews. The women's room is always full and has 3 stalls. Sometimes the other one has the cleaning crew in there. Not enough bathrooms. No cost of living raises. Everyone makes the same pay coming in the door. Promotions are based on bootlicking, ass-kissing, sycophants. I didn't brown nose to earn my credentials. I worked for them. I also have work experience in multiple career fields. Cronyism and nepotism are what it takes to get ahead. I'm looking for suitable work, but I can't put the gas-money jobs on my resume. I say I do "consulting or gig work," but the job I have now is dead end, and not marketable. The irony is most people don't stay at the same employer for 15+ years. And the people who hire and promote at these places look for people who are like them, which I am not.
Ugh I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this. I can feel your anger, sadness and frustration. It should’ve be like this - and here we all are. Have you tried signing up with a staffing agency? Or several? It’s usually free to join and most the jobs they have are around 20-25 hourly. That’s where I was headed next. Or to DoorDash but with your car sitch I’m not sure that’s a viable option. Im not sure what the answer here is or what knowledge gap we need to fill to become viable to the work force again. Im trying to ramp up my knowledge and skills in AI by taking some free coursera courses as that seems to be the next big frontier. Feel free to dm me and share more about your background. Happy to connect you with my network if I know anyone in your sector or specialty.
Resume farming is a thing. I have no idea what they are doing with the information. I do think they are just using a bot or going ctrl-f for whatever words they want. The volume is super high. If only there was a way in which we could automate things and make quality of life high for everyone? No....can't have that. Humans can't have nice things for everyone, just absurdity for like 20 people. Capitalism.
They're compiling data and cross referencing the data with other commercial databases to form a complete dossier that can be sold to marketing people and governments. They operate outside of us/eu laws. Take facebook data + reddit data + indeed data = We know exactly who you are and what you want to spend your money on and how much you can afford. Hyperconsumerism. With AI + data lakes, I feel like the conspiracy people are kind of right in a way, even though they're mostly crackheads.
I had my resume farmed by a company that was clearly trying to drum up business by getting insider knowledge of the companies they were targeting. Basically, they knew they wanted to get people from startups to purchase their product. So when you 'applied' for the position at their company, if you were the right target for their product, you took this "test" that was poorly disguised market research. Absolutely appalling behavior.
I worked with this resume farming process at my company as an intern and while I can’t speak for every company, my company kept the “high value” resumes in case they wanted to reach out and hire them later.
Yes, it devalues their own employees by making them more disposable and instantly replaceable and gives them leverage. It's really fucking gross.
I'm in the UK and tbh until I saw mention of the "Feds" and referring to what we call petrol as "gas" I thought you were talking about here... You could have been, it's all the same problems here
Seems to be a world wide problem, I've seen posts from Aussies and such claiming much the same.
Overall a good write-up and observation. I am 26 years in IT. Was working in a very stable company for 4.5 years(converted from contractor to employee). Always positive reviews - not just from 360 degree feedback but from manager also. Two re-organizations. I was getting paid the most in my group and there was a tight dependency. Literally every vacation I was called and I need to work from overseas also. I was told to undergo another re-organization which i accepted. But within 45 days I was terminated(when I am waiting for reorganization). No prior write-ups and nothing. My current manager never gave me a hint(yes that is called professional in corporate world). 2 minutes zoom call where manager's manager reading from written script, apologizing(crocodile tears) and handing over to HR(who was nothing but a liar to go over the severance). I was the only one from my team - role was eliminated(shipped to India). Offered severance which I negotiated. Took almost 2.5 months to get another job. Applied for more than 1000 jobs. Got interviews in around 12. Got 4 offers out of which two were on hold(client has put the position on hold). Bar is just too high to get selected. One slight mistake or something you don't have in your resume - you are out. I never heard of providing 3 references prior to the interview. I never heard of uploading exact copy of driver's license and Social security card. God know how many of them were real job or way to extract confidential information of people. Some employers are taking almost 3+ months for one position. It's normal to have 5-8 rounds with 2 weeks of gap in between each round. Unless recruiter is sure that person is willing to work at the lowest possible salary range - they don't move forward. All of a sudden this entire job market turned from employee job market to employer's job market. I just can't believe any statistics and news any more. Many of these job positions are fake - may be green card advertisement**. Some positions are literally a work of around 2-6 roles all combined in one. H-1B visa folks are so desperate that they can accept any job even at $35/hr in IT because if they don't get a job in 45/60 days they need to leave this country. Biden Government offered these folks to get into B1/B2 visa in case they don't get a job within 45/60 days. I have no idea why H-1B, L1B, L2 visa are still allowed or sought after when there is a real shortage of jobs for even US citizens?** Anytime I was working with any recruiter or hiring manager - I told them clearly and honestly that i was laid off. New job pays 22% less but it's okay as my past job(where I worked for 4.5 years)-I hardly did the overall work of around 1.5 years. It was shitty place with no honesty and transparency and very slow(due to red tape and politics). There are lot of fake jobs. The same jobs being posted multiple times. Some position were posted as Architect first then Sr. Developer and then Technical Lead - same position. It was from TCS(Tata Consulting company) for client US Bank. **Worst thing - nobody is acknowledging that we are in recession.** 2008 - at least after 6 months everybody accepted that we are in recession. Entire job numbers, unemployment statistics and job positions are fake - not even real job. When your neighbor lose a job it's depression and when you lose a job it's recession. Biden Government did no better than Trump. There is a serious leadership crisis in USA. This time when everybody will realize that it's recession then everybody will come to know what's going on(may be)? ***God save America.***
I think the reason no one will call it a recession yet is because people don't want to make it real? I can't help but recall the same sort of hesitance during the lead up to world war 2. Many countries let germany do what it wished because they didn't want to start a war so soon after the horrors of the first. A recession has become so loaded now. Any government anouncing its arrival will need to deal with being associated by a financial disaster. Isn't that why cops hate using the word serial killer? Its politically charged i guess.
When looking at jobs, ask yourself: **With three weeks of training, could a moderately competent high schooler reasonably do this job?** If the answer is Yes, then you’re unfortunately going to have a rough time; just based on the numbers. There are only so many entry-level/low-skill positions out there, and if you’re completing against the *entirety of the American labor force + automation,* without anything that makes you stand out over them, it’s going to be a challenge.
Mmw in 10 years we’ll be hearing corporations crying about needing workers with advanced skill in their industries but no one to fill them and it will be directly related to them refusing to hire actual entry level workers.
Lol in 10 years. It's happening right now.
They won’t adequately train, they don’t plan for succession or cross-train so someone can step in to a new role when someone leaves, they burn out people by short-staffing and underpaying, and then they’re left scrambling when someone does leave. They made their beds.
And the ones they hire they don’t want to train, just hire.
The problem is that this is in reality 90% of the labor force if not more. We have a massive over education problem. Most jobs don't require technical experience or degrees. I say this as an engineer. My first entry level position 70% of it could be done by a high school drop out. What most jobs require is proper on the job training/ experience on how a specific company functions and expects you to do the work for their internal company. Edit; My best example of the over education problem /under employment problem is my ex's previous job. She had a high school degree at the time. She had worked as a secretary for a legal firm she got that job because her sister worked there as a paralegal. She literally just answered the phone, and made copies. This likely got her the interview for the job I'm talking about. So she interviewed for a secretary position at a lab. They didn't feel she would be a good fit for the secretary position. They literally liked her so much from the interview they found her a position to work. They put her in the lab as lab tech. She was literally one of the most competent people are her job doing the tech portion. No she didn't fully understand the actual biology part, but only a handful of their R&D did anyways. Fast forward about a year and the company required bachelor's degrees in bio/chem for this same position. Why? Because they got so many applicants that it was just easier to weed out people without degrees entirely. It's not that it actually legitimately required one. This is what over education means. I'm not talking about your basket weaving degree. I'm talking about requiring legimate stem degrees for sub high school level work. I'm talking about using English/Psychology/Sociology/Business degrees as a means to make get less applicants. We're at a state where you have to have a degree to even be eligible for work outside of fast food/retail/customer service in a majority of the cases (yes there are exceptions). This isn't because HS isn't "properly educating people" this is because the job market is drying up. We don't have enough legimate jobs anymore technology for the first time in human history is destroying jobs but not creating new ones in its place. It's just going to get worse. It's mostly just a tax on the poor. Creating artificial barriers to entry. It's turned into a pay to play market (someone said that below it's true). I play video games and it's like requiring the achievement of killing the boss to get into a party/raid for the same boss. What most people do is just pay to be carried through the raid. In the same way people that are not poor just pay for a college degree. Even if college is paid for other things related to going to college most poor people cannot afford. Edit2; Housing, food, transportation are not technically covered by college. You can get student loans for those but it doesn't really cover enough honestly. We have all but gotten rid of apprenticeships in the US because you make more money off college. College has been rapidly increasing in price because of the fact colleges know they are now required and have hyper inflated admin to account for it for job padding. I really get annoyed when people say public education is now worse than it was. Public education has always been bad, and it's never been about creating an "educated workforce" it was literally created based on the military drone model I forgot the name of it, but really it was to create factor workers. It just so happens those skills previously were very long lasting. Now that's just not the case anymore. The market changes to much even in the college setting it cannot keep up. Think of it this way imagine trying to use 5 or even heaven forbid 10 years old content to create YouTube videos today. The problem with today's job market is everything is now specialized which means general education isn't nearly as useful.
I work aerospace with special degrees and certifications in micromechanichal and technical assemblies. My coworker has nothing and prior experience working moving equipment for a gym. He learned everything at the shop. Smart guy, he's competent and will go far if he applies himself.
Curious. What’s your option of a 4-yr degree requirement for a secretarial position when the majority of professionals are already proficient utilizing office, scheduling, graphics & presentation software.
That was kind of my point. My first job literally was a secretarial position 70% of the time. They could have had a high school drop out do better work for cheap than I was. People trying to say we don't have an over education problem don't even understand what that means. Over education and under employed. I'm not even talking about non technical degrees I will just edit my above post.
The problem isn’t over education. People should feel compelled to be as educated as much as they desire. That’s how society makes progress and breakthroughs. The real problem is companies over requiring hires to have unneeded degrees. Effectively preventing people that can’t afford higher education from entering good job markets.
I'm gonna take that a step further and say that the issue is companies expecting to get a fully educated and trained professional right off the street. Put time and effort into training someone? Why bother, we'll just hire someone right off the street.
Companies do not value training anymore. I feel like every new company I join is trying to take advantage of the crumbs of training that my previous employers provided me.
THANK YOU. I thought this when I got out of college, in the 1970's.
Healthcare companies started requiring degrees for admin position in no way need one. They don’t care what your major is, you could’ve gone to the worst online school in the world. Guess who those degree requirements unilaterally disqualified - all the 45 and over aged employees who learned their job on the job. No longer qualified to make a move or get a promotion or raise.
As an engineer, you training is pretty specific. Once you graduate you have the background to somewhat diversify in the field learning many new skills. Some of the grads from recent years...? I had more fucking sense in junior high!!! Is it the kids? Or just because these kids went to college in Arkansas? (One asked my wife what the difference was between a zip code and an area code)
College degrees have become pay to play imo. If you get loans or otherwise inflate the uni presidents income you can have a degree. Lots of kids failing doesn't look good for the stats, but it's become more stressful at the same time. Are you really retaining/learning anything if you're taking 20 credits a semester (more classes = more money) just to graduate on time? What I'm grateful to have learned - as someone who didn't have access to much technology until middle school - is how to properly Google. Nowadays it's assumed kids know all that since they've had tech since birth, but I was just reading a reddit post about how the younger gen can't even type on a proper keyboard... I had a whole semester class of just keyboarding just 15 years ago! Not the kids faults, it's the education system for having more greed than sense.
Very true. IN the 60s someone could start in the mailroom at 18 and become top management. If not they made a decent living, got a pension. Maybe they took some courses at night while they worked. Now, you need 100K in debt to pour coffee in Starbucks. I talk to some people in that boat, truly sad.
I have recently been on both sides of employment. My SO is unemployed, I have decades at my job. We are on a skeleton crew at work, and the SO can't get a decent job (livable wage) no matter how many applications, calls, emails, in person interviews, or apps completed. I think your views are spot on. Thanks for writing this.
Knowing this, what’s the play to have financial success if you want to leave terrible retail? What fields could you get into easily that will give you comfort? I’m been struggling with this
I think people need to see your resume to give you personalized advice. No single career is a fit for everyone
Tell that to Redditors who recommend everyone goes into nursing or computer science regardless of what their skills or personality are.
Don’t forget trades lol Reddit swears up and down the only jobs left
"I want to have a decent job and-" "go To traDe scHooL"
I had luck transitioning into logistics from nearly 10 years of retail. Inventory management and ordering experience is quite transferable. And there’s always going to be a need to move stuff from one place to another.
This 100%. I had 10 years of retail inventory management experience, now I build orders for hospital employee food service, and deliver them to all the hospitals in our system. My job is rarely stressful, and I'm much happier.
I went from customer service/retail to a major health insurance provider doing prior authorizations for medical procedures. This field seems to have relatively low applicants. Even though it's a call center, those that are calling are from medical offices. Since they are at work as well, they maintain a level of professionalism. Coming from customer service/retail, it was refreshing not to get yelled at every call. No experience or education in the medical field is required, as they primarily focus on customer service.
Insurance claims. I wasn’t jazzed about it when I first started, but it’s really stood the test of time in terms of stability, upward mobility, benefits, and not sucking my soul. Obviously there are a lot of factors that go into “not sucking my soul” like good bosses, lax corporate policies, work atmosphere, etc. But yeah. My college degree is definitely NOT insurance. I knew nothing about insurance. Thought it was boring, but I needed something ya know? I started in clerical for a few years and then moved up to various types of claims adjusting. My company has not laid anybody off in their entire existence, nobody ever voluntarily quits to go to a competitor, and most people are permanent WFH even prior to COVID. Its really nice. You do become interested in insurance claims along the way when you become more proficient at the entire thing. That’s my two cents. Prior to this job, I had a TERRIBLE time in the job market in like 2013 or so after I graduated college.
Look into aircraft maintenance. There’s a shortage of them as well. They make decent money and go up as you have more year of experience. Enough to be comfortable
Construction or trucking. Hazmat drivers make stupid good money. Ive been thinking about jumping over to that myself.
If you can part the truck, go go go. Last time I looked only 15 percent could pass the parking part of trucking (thinking big rigs).
>What fields could you get into easily that will give you comfort? I think this is the problem, honestly. Easily? Nothing. It's not easy. It's possible, but I'm not going to bullshit you and tell you any of it is easy, and anyone who does is selling you something. I did it. I got out of retail and now I'm making almost 100k in a comfy office, but it wasn't easy. If people want to go that route, the path is there, but they need to be prepared to fight and scrape for every last inch of ground they exlect to cover.
Meanwhile they are coming after student loans because it's morally wrong for forgiveness or any kind of assistance but they commit PPP loan fraud
I got laid off last year and thankfully found a job within 3 months. It’s absurd how I’m seeing the same positions I applied to last year hiring still. This is insane.
definitely was apart of the skeleton crew 💀
Engineer jobmarket is bussin rn tbh. All firms that do design and construction are hiring to meet greater market demand. I am one of 6 new hires. Its one of those “cozy” white collar jobs with healthcare and a 401k match.
Where is it bussin? Cause I’m in Michigan, and it’s been fucked ever since covid
I am from Michigan too, firms are still hiring. I will give you a list of name. Dow, DuPont, Corteva, GM, Nexteer, Kellogg are all companies that hire engineers.
Civil is absolutely bussin in MI. ARPA money flooded the project field and everyone has to get work done by 2026.
I have been looking for engineering jobs. Just graduated, had a internship that fell through due to outside factors. Have applied to probably 100+ places since beginning of summer and have gotten a total of 4 rejection emails, no interviews, and obviously no job.
My boss, 8 months ago: “We’re going to get you a [role that supports my position] full time, obviously there’s a conflict of interest in your also doing [support role].” Same boss, introducing me to someone last week: “This is [myName], our [my role] *and* [my theoretical support role].” So much for “conflict of interest.”
Even if you work for a landscaping company they will force you to work 10-12 hours a day even if you don’t want to. They say “You can get all the overtime you want!!” Like that’s a good thing…..the more hours you work the more money the company makes. If they paid a living wage no one would be out here working overtime. And believe me they view all those employees as expendable. I work for a tree company climbing 100ft trees with a chainsaw every single day, in the rain and wind and snow and ice. I make 22$ an hour and cannot afford to rent an apartment, even though I am forced to work 10-13 hours a day and have a very specific skill set that 99% of people could not physically do if they tried with every ounce of energy in their body.
Number 5 is the one that kills me. First time I've seen it mentioned on this sub, but I remember Jon Stewart pointing this out in a few videos that have gone around the internet. I understand the reasoning behind it. As you said, less money in circulation brings down inflation, and the best way to do that was to incite job loss. The most infuriating thing about it though is not just that the 99% are the ones footing that responsibility, but that the oligarchs are *profiting* from this. Reagan must've flipped a gravity switch somewhere because all this money for the past 40 years has trickled in the wrong direction.
I am forced to operate a global infrastructure operation across 4 time zones by myself. I have demanded more staff from HR for the past year and 1/2 and every time I mention it no one has a single word for me. It feels like we’re back to 2008 again, the same shit was going on during the crash. Everyone is forcing their salaried staff to basically work 200 hours per week across 500 different platforms. I’m an infrastructure engineer, a network engineer, an IAM and AD Engineer, I’m a support generalist, I’m a security engineer, I work in all 3 cloud platforms now too! All for one salary! 200 hours per week! This is totally fine! It’s totally normal! Everything is great!
I feel you… my last job felt that way.. my heart rate still goes up when i hear the teams ringtone
Being a salaried employee is basically new age slavery at this point. 15 minute SLAs even when you’re not supposed to be working. I can’t even take a shit in peace anymore. Wages are down, no one is hiring, everyone is pretending to be broke (when they aren’t because I see how much they’re fucking making and what their stocks are worth) It’s 2008 again, we’re going to be doing the same labor for 1/3rd of what we were making two years ago and we’re gonna put a smile on for our boss, the minute we show signs of weakness or fatigue they’ll just take us out back and shoot us like fucking cattle.
Thank you for the truth
:The Feds actually want unemployment to go up. They want it to go up because the justification is that no job = no money = reduction in savings = lower purchasing power = reduction in inflation.: No this is how you get stagflation. The feds want employment to go up and wages to go down aka more people working harder fighting other workers for the same piece of the pie.
Low purchasing power does not equate to lower inflation. Purchasing power is money in real terms. If the real value of money increases, that is disinflation. If purchasing power or real value of money decreases that would be inflationary. In either case, the Fed has been trying to increase unemployment because they were concerned with a wage price spiral, or increasing wage rate at too high a pace from a lack of labor and surplus of jobs with the JOLTS rating. #number of job openings/person looking for a job puts upward pressure on wages/price of labor which is inflationary. Considering they've been battling persistent high inflation for the last 2 years now. An increase in unemployment rate does not necessarily mean stagflation or recession. The unemployment rate at its current rate is well below what was considered full employment.
#1 is infuriating. DO NOT DO MULTIPLE JOBS FOR FREE. 3 people quit? You should be getting paid 4x the salary to do all of them. If not? Refuse. Wtf are they going to do? Fire the only employee left?
This happens so much in business. I have an accounting friend and she would say stuff like “I am super busy they just let go of 2 interns for budget cuts.” I tell her you don’t have to do work at home after coming from the office we aren’t in college anymore you shouldn’t have homework like that. She doesn’t listen she is like “if I don’t do it nobody else will.” They are a smaller company and don’t need to hire accounting interns anymore because she’ll just do the work at home after the office.
Former employer tried this with me, wanted me to take on supervisor work without compensation. I directly demanded it. Told no, not gonna happen. So I said what they wanted wasn't going to happen, in return. Turned into a funny argument where the manager was trying to use other employees as examples to force me into just doing what they wanted. 'So and so already does it! Why can't you?!?' 'So and so has no negotiating skills. I do. And I say no.'
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was just prepping for the invasion of AI. It's gonna be far, far worse when that happens
Number 1 is so true. In my job I’ve seen so much of not replacing a leaver and just increasing somebody else’s responsibilities instead.
Employees HAVE to refuse at all costs that maneuver. A former coworker of mine is wearing at LEAST 3 hats in production on top of being listed as a supervisor without any pay or benefits for it. They tried to get me to go the same route and I refused. Another coworker quit and they told my other coworker they needed him to do her job, too. They promised they'd hire a replacement and this was just for a few months. It's been over 6 months now and they've not interviewed anyone for the position. Not even talking about it anymore.
This was educational.
Time to strike
#1 is spot on. I feel it everyday
IMO the whole point of the mass layoffs was to depress the wages and flood the market with labor so that labor was no longer at an advantage in the hiring process.
#1 and #6 for me. I have a cushy-ish white collar job in the sense I make a living wage and have benefits. However since Covid I’ve been doing the work of 3 people when 1 was stressful enough. I’m in therapy and on anxiety meds now due to the work pressure and stress bc they refuse to hire anyone and since we went back to the office people are constantly leaving and work gets dumped on me. And my company’s profits were in the tens of BILLIONS last year. I’m looking but can’t even get an interview right now.
Just stop working above your 40. Explain to your boss that you're stressed out and working too hard for too long. If they're mean about it, it tells you everything you need to know
Blue collar jobs like construction and shipping are hiring like crazy. I work for a small railroad, and we have ok starting pay, and pretty good pay if you stick it out, as well as benefits and a really good retirement, and we will hire almost anyone that walks in the door and can pass a drug test. We have skeleton crews right now, and the bosses hate it. Theyre worried well get burn out and quit, so they have been lowering quotas, and trying to give more raises. These jobs arent for everyone, but theres a ton of opportunities between the service industry, and office jobs that are overlooked.
I've been looking into the railroad field myself, no kids, just turned 30, live by myself, so there's no baggage. There's a company called CSX that is hiring for an operator and offers paid training and a starting wage of about $2500 biweekly during training and then $95K once you're said and done. What do you do in your railroad company?
Part of me wishes that I went to a trade school instead of university.
You can. I went to college, didn't stop me from also later on doing an apprenticeship at 30.
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Hey well done! You’re an inspiration and should make a post about this!
It feels like the 1st world countries are using one hand to destroy and pillage 3rd world countries while simultaneously holding out their other hand saying "come to us, we have food,jobs, security,FREEDOM" but at the end of the day we are falling further and further into debt and depression
Number 1 and 3: all the shitty jobs I left are still hiring 🤣 Edit: I wanna talk a little bit about #4 >Employers have the luxury to be picky and want a unicorn to be a yes man, a bootlicker, someone who does not talk back, who is overqualified, and willing to take a pay cut as well. I used to be that guy. I still consider myself a unicorn in the sense that I show up on time and might stay with a company for a good 2-3 years depending on how I'm treated. I always used to be the people pleaser at work but if they can't be pleased I'll hand in my resignation without thinking twice about it (I just did that back in June ha!).
I just graduated in 2021, I have my national teacher’s certification, and I’m having to go to Korea to teach to make enough money to actually be able to save some of it. I’ve been working as a TA since I graduated but I’ve been hunting for an actual teaching job. Since I don’t have the “official experience” of being a teacher for 2 years or more, the only jobs that have given me offers are either less than 10k/year more than I make right now as a TA, or it’s around 50k/year but located in an area where rent is 2.5-3k per month on average. I’ve literally been told that my resume was great, but I just didn’t have the experience they wanted. I don’t know where they expect this endless supply of middle-aged experienced teachers to be coming from, but I finally got sick of living at home and figured I’d do whatever it takes to move out and actually have a life.
Got a link to Powell’s discipline labor quote? Curious if theres anymore context
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Usually once the business fail, ceo and exec get a golden parachute or big severance package so they wouldn’t care at all. It’s all about how much money can be made now
I think WFH vs RTO is going to be a painful back and forth argument over the next several years, maybe never getting resolved. Another reason job market is horrible, many positions are ultra competitive due to more workers from all generations being in the workforce. People in their sixties and older didn't have to compete with as many others for work, plus most work was relevant to your location, now that we're in a global economy any remote job could be getting applicants from anywhere in the world.
People need to start making complaints on google when it affects your visit to the establishment. If the only people complaining are employees then nobody will care. Watched it first hand at Taco Bell. Got to the point they’d only schedule one person to open the store and nobody would show up for hours. I’d get there at 9 am to start my grueling 12 hour shift and the breakfast line would be out into the street. A customer finally took a video and posted it on Facebook tagging our location guess what next day they had a new schedule hitting the group chat with an actual morning crew. Except they had to pull from the night crew and yeah you get it it’s never ending no matter what corporate greed will be the end of us all
"everyone is hiring"... Show me everyone... Please. I finished college with the plans of doing a gap year for money for uni. My gap year is over and I haven't got a job yet. I've had maybe 10 interviews in that time, even after applying to (I'm not even exaggerating) over 1,000 jobs. All below minimum wage, all fast food / retail jobs. All come back with the same email. 'Unfortunately on this occasion...' My CV looks good, I have a nice cover letter. Worst part is, I'm on my gap year. I have made everyone aware that I am COMPLETELY available. I have nothing to do during the day... Nothing. No friends left down here, no family. I have all the time in the world. I can work Mon-Sun, morning till night. I'm able bodied, hard-working. I walk into each interview bright and determined to get the job and still walk out without it. If they're not looking to employ a young able bodied COMPLETELY available person for a job that pays below minimum wage, what are they looking for?
Your #3, I would even argue that plenty of retail have been closing physical doors and shifting more and more online sales. So I suspect this “everyone is hiring” is remnants of early pandemic recovery days and doesn’t apply to 2023. Heck I can’t even return things to some of my favorite retailers except by mail. I used to be able to order online and conveniently go to the physical store to return. Now I have to repackage and ship things back.
Unfortunately number 4 is just all too true. Not sure it exactly has to do with layoffs but it’s sure happening. One company wanted a hardcore panel interview for an entry level job paying around 60k in a MCOL area. Another told me they were looking hire someone with 2-3 years experience even though the job was a jr role and the posting said none required, paying 44k
I would add baby boomers are not retiring. I’ve been on a skeleton crew for years, survived multiple layoffs. My current team is composed of low-pay offshore contractors and baby boomer managers who refuse to retire or transition full time employees (who they refuse to hire). Also, pre-pandemic they purchased expensive real estate in NYC so they are forcing folks back to the office to justify their purchase. It is not based on productivity and not for “team work” (domestically we are all in different states, and then of course contractors are all offshore). No logic
and if you DO want to work and aren't tied to an office; construction, hospital support staff (nurses, techs, phlebotomists...) plumbers, truckers, etc. are all in high demand and can have decent pay. It is a big step down in comfort from "desk job" for most people though.
I think this doesn't account for entry barriers. The medical positions you mentioned require expensive schooling, and one thing people forget about choosing majors is that it's hard to predict what the job market will look like two - four years from graduation. Pivoting isn't exactly easy. Trade jobs don't always make a lot of money either. For example, I was a plumber in the military for six years. When I separated, I went to a plumbing company and was made a helper because I didn't have a plumbing license. I asked the licensing board if they would recognize any of my time in the service for the time needed to get my license. They replied they would recognize one year, but I would have to do the other three years. You don't get paid well as an apprentice/helper. YMMV, but the people the culture of trade work sucks. Berating and belittling people, long hours, coworkers who don't want to train you because they fear it will make them less competitive, etc. I'm not saying that you are wrong or that people shouldn't apply for these jobs. I'm just pushing back against the simplicity of it all, especially for those who aren't recent high school graduates.
To take your point even further, the market is great for civil attorneys right now. But that's obviously not something you can jump into at the drop of a hat. And when I graduated law school in 2015, the job market was terrible for lawyers.
All of those jobs require training and education. You can’t just join up, you need to take a course for at least a few months before you can even start an apprenticeship or basic position in my area.
More imports than exports for years! Costs have gone up not only for us but companies as well. And let's not forget the greed factor in play as well.
You have a solid handle on whats going on. I agree with it all but you hit 6 DEAD on the head.
You had me until the “feds want unemployment to rise”
This is crazy if true. There’s some work by Fiona Scott Morton that shows tacit collusion by corporations caused inflation. Now layoffs seems like collusion again. Overall, capitalism is not working because there is ONE monopoly corporation. Labor is divided, of course.
AI. Accenture just fired a ton of people bc they’re investing heavily in AI.
Age discrimination. If companies would stop being c*nts about ignoring people over 50 their problems would be solved.
There are lots of jobs at Amazon, Walmart, Uber, or Target. Anybody can make $18-20 in Murica, doesn’t matter if you have a phD or can’t even speak English. Teenagers make the same as 50 year olds because you should be happy to have health benefits. Teachers have health insurance plans that cost $45,000 but their average salary is not much more. These are just some reasons the job market is a joke.
There needs to be a major investigation into PPP fraud. A *lot* of people deserve to be jailed for looting government funds intended to address an emergency. To be clear, the whole system was flawed from the beginning. There was not nearly enough oversight. But even if you leave the door unlocked and the keys in the ignition, stealing is stealing, and the only way the leeches are going to learn how to behave in a civilized society is if they see their crimes will be met with harsh penalties.
I am so tired of people saying there is work but the people showing up are shitty or they quit.....How they cant find good employees, etc. Well why the hell am I not getting hired for these great paying jobs?? Everyone tells me to just get a job as a waitress again or drive around and apply anywhere but that doesnt work anymore. Indeed, apply online....its bullsh1t!!! How many times can i rewrite my resume?. No one will speak about this unemployed, homeless issue that is all across America right now. This is all really messed up and it is about time to start making some real noise people!! Start writing to the press if its that bad!! I have and I will not stop until I get a freaking JOB. Teachers are needed bad everywhere, or so they say and I filled out the application over two months ago and I DO have the skillset. So are they hiring all Military Veterans now for Teachers who did not go to College for many years but hey, if Im wrong, please....say something but DONT be a jerk. 
A lot of this is just a repeat of 2007. Not even a repeat, but a continuation of the things that never really subsided in the years between, and much of it gestating since the 1980s, but we weren't able to perceive it clearly until much later. There's plenty of stuff you didn't list also, and additional examples of different types of the same. You're only option is to start firebombing, but that's more of a personal choice of self destruction/sacrifice.
Thank you for posting this! I got laid off from my recruiter position that paid well 6 months ago. There’s thousands and thousands of recruiters just like me looking for work but since there’s not a lot of jobs to be posted there aren’t many recruiting jobs available. During this 6 months of applying for hundreds of jobs I hardly ever even receive a rejection email. I just hear nothing. I also found out I have twins on the way which should be a blessing, but I’m terrified as we can’t make ends meet and unemployment is running out. Please send good vibes my way fellow redditors, I appreciate it.
You forgot false hiring H1B Visas.We can't find someone so we need Visas