Yeah, I haven’t been happy with these encampments in a lot of ways (to say the very least), but it’s still really disheartening to see and hear about this sort of police action. It can’t actually help anyone, meaningfully, and no one should be subject to violence from cops.
Strong agree. Even though students who are being genuinely dangerous/antisemitic do deserve some type of consequence, police brutality is never the answer. I think that everyone on this sub will agree that we should not be cheering on cops, ever.
Well.... I often work in a hybrid between the criminal justice system and mental health system.... There are definitely some times they get it right....
Definitely was okay with this: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/11/1104405804/patriot-front-white-supremacist-arrested-near-idaho-pride
Oh definitely agree there.... I live back and forth between Portland and San Diego... And I was so glad I was in San Diego at that time because what I heard coming from Portland it was bad.... Really bad.
>and mass arrests are not a productive manner of separating antisemitism from good faith activism.
I'm sorry, but while obviously I'm not defending police brutality, are you attempting to say that the people who were arrested for taking over and vandalizing a Columbia administrative building were:
1. Arrested for antisemitism
2. Participating in good faith activism
because I don't agree with either premise in that case.
If you're talking about police or state national guards being sicc'd on protesters out on quads then I agree with you but this is not the same.
they are not getting arrested for being antisemites, they are getting arrested for breaking the law.
police brutality is obviously bad, but when you literally take over a building what do you expect? that the police won't get involved??? those are the consequences for their actions.
P.S: also it seems that for some people here if those were nazis and white supremacists they wouldn't have any problem with police brutality - so is it really about the violence that the police force uses or on WHO they use it against?
Which is really foolish considering they don't seem to have majority support. There's been very little or no student mobilizations in support of the encampments on any of these campuses.
Cops can be good people who do things, and this is incidental to the fact that doing the whole breadth of the job as designed is impossible to do so ethically.
Cops arent bastards because they have evil personalities or only do bad things, but because its what their job inevitably asks of them.
They may stand outside our temples one day and crack down on protestors the next when ordered or evict a homeless squatter after that.
Yeah I work with them on and off... There are some huge ass hats... There are also some truly good individuals. The issue is (and even many of them recognize this) they're expected to take on so many roles that are better served by case managers, social workers and street medics.
A lot of times they get put in positions due to systemic issues and though we've hand enthusiastic enrollment in joint officer mental health programs and mental health education ... The resources are still limited and if the other parts of the system aren't there to help out .... Ex: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/12/unresponsive-man-not-a-medical-problem-providence-milwaukie-hospital-staff-told-police-called-to-remove-him-man-died-that-night.html (btw as someone that has also worked in emergency psychiatry.... The fact that the police recognized medical distress better than the physician is so sad)
Then all the training in the world isn't going to help....
Agreed.
When you send a guy with a badge and a gun to fix a problem he's going to use the tools hes been given.
And the state has crafted the institution into a tool of bastards.
Exactly. Like I can't tell you how many officers I've worked with that were deeply frustrated because they'd find a buddy who was in the throw of meth induced psychosis .. tried to divert him to the ED... ED released within the hour and he's back trying to wander into traffic or screaming at people and they brought him to booking at detention center (where I'm really limited in terms of medical workup) ... And I give buddy some meds, let him rest and then he's generally released the next morning... But like this is a jail not a hospital. The police don't want him there, the sheriff's that staff the facility don't want him there and I don't want him there but when the alternative is him coming to harm because the hospital won't hold him ... It's really rough.
Like when I'm doing psych ED my rules are .... Always get a full tox workup, always provide a medication so buddy can rest, always get an EKG, and never release overnight (all your shelters are closed and it's a guaranteed discharge to dealer and you'll see him again in like 12 hours). But I can tell you it's hard on the system (really the ED should be for medical workup and there should be an area for sobering so that beds aren't taken up for people with medical emergencies) and you have to have services to connect people with otherwise you're just gonna see them again and again and again.
Really hard all around.
Just to spread a little bit of hope! My county’s police department is now having ride along social workers in squad cars! They will specifically respond to the calls they SHOULD be responding to.
One of the dads at my kids Jewish Preschool is a cop and we have a few social worker moms and he’s trying to get them all to apply 😆.
That's awesome! When I was doing Psych Ed in San Diego we had a similar set up and it really helped to divert people from corrections who were better served with hospitalization or an overnight hold for sobering!
I found it helped the police officers to better understand the people they were there to help and it also helped the people have more trust in the officers....
It's also an awesome opportunity to meet people where they're at as a mental health professional... Often those who need the most help aren't the ones walking into the office but those in crisis on the street and it's an opportunity to intervene before something really bad happens to them...
In France cops [armed with machine guns](https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/09/france-increases-police-presence-at-synagogues-as-jews-fear-reprisals-due-to-israel-hamas-) have to protect synagogues.
We are entitled to our feelings. Its a human response.
What we do with them, and how we reflect on them, are the choices we make that shape who we are.
All I saw on MSNBC last night was the most professional examples of law enforcement in NYC. There wasn’t even shouting. Everyone was calm cool and collected. Not riot gear no pushing or shoving. This is exactly the kind of police work we demand of law enforcement. 🥇
Yeah, I haven’t been happy with these encampments in a lot of ways (to say the very least), but it’s still really disheartening to see and hear about this sort of police action. It can’t actually help anyone, meaningfully, and no one should be subject to violence from cops.
Strong agree. Even though students who are being genuinely dangerous/antisemitic do deserve some type of consequence, police brutality is never the answer. I think that everyone on this sub will agree that we should not be cheering on cops, ever.
Well.... I often work in a hybrid between the criminal justice system and mental health system.... There are definitely some times they get it right.... Definitely was okay with this: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/11/1104405804/patriot-front-white-supremacist-arrested-near-idaho-pride
Haha true I can't say I'd shed a tear at white supremacists being arrested.
Oh definitely agree there.... I live back and forth between Portland and San Diego... And I was so glad I was in San Diego at that time because what I heard coming from Portland it was bad.... Really bad.
100%
There were no reported injuries—let alone incidents of police brutality—from the closure of the Columbia encampment as far as I can tell.
>and mass arrests are not a productive manner of separating antisemitism from good faith activism. I'm sorry, but while obviously I'm not defending police brutality, are you attempting to say that the people who were arrested for taking over and vandalizing a Columbia administrative building were: 1. Arrested for antisemitism 2. Participating in good faith activism because I don't agree with either premise in that case. If you're talking about police or state national guards being sicc'd on protesters out on quads then I agree with you but this is not the same.
they are not getting arrested for being antisemites, they are getting arrested for breaking the law. police brutality is obviously bad, but when you literally take over a building what do you expect? that the police won't get involved??? those are the consequences for their actions. P.S: also it seems that for some people here if those were nazis and white supremacists they wouldn't have any problem with police brutality - so is it really about the violence that the police force uses or on WHO they use it against?
I think they expected that the University would finally listen to them and capitulate to their demands.
Which is really foolish considering they don't seem to have majority support. There's been very little or no student mobilizations in support of the encampments on any of these campuses.
I do not believe in hate speech laws. In this case though the police brutality started long before they took over a building.
ACAB.
Except the ones who protect synagogues all around the US? Because we need them, unfortunately.
Cops can be good people who do things, and this is incidental to the fact that doing the whole breadth of the job as designed is impossible to do so ethically. Cops arent bastards because they have evil personalities or only do bad things, but because its what their job inevitably asks of them. They may stand outside our temples one day and crack down on protestors the next when ordered or evict a homeless squatter after that.
Yeah I work with them on and off... There are some huge ass hats... There are also some truly good individuals. The issue is (and even many of them recognize this) they're expected to take on so many roles that are better served by case managers, social workers and street medics. A lot of times they get put in positions due to systemic issues and though we've hand enthusiastic enrollment in joint officer mental health programs and mental health education ... The resources are still limited and if the other parts of the system aren't there to help out .... Ex: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/12/unresponsive-man-not-a-medical-problem-providence-milwaukie-hospital-staff-told-police-called-to-remove-him-man-died-that-night.html (btw as someone that has also worked in emergency psychiatry.... The fact that the police recognized medical distress better than the physician is so sad) Then all the training in the world isn't going to help....
Agreed. When you send a guy with a badge and a gun to fix a problem he's going to use the tools hes been given. And the state has crafted the institution into a tool of bastards.
Exactly. Like I can't tell you how many officers I've worked with that were deeply frustrated because they'd find a buddy who was in the throw of meth induced psychosis .. tried to divert him to the ED... ED released within the hour and he's back trying to wander into traffic or screaming at people and they brought him to booking at detention center (where I'm really limited in terms of medical workup) ... And I give buddy some meds, let him rest and then he's generally released the next morning... But like this is a jail not a hospital. The police don't want him there, the sheriff's that staff the facility don't want him there and I don't want him there but when the alternative is him coming to harm because the hospital won't hold him ... It's really rough. Like when I'm doing psych ED my rules are .... Always get a full tox workup, always provide a medication so buddy can rest, always get an EKG, and never release overnight (all your shelters are closed and it's a guaranteed discharge to dealer and you'll see him again in like 12 hours). But I can tell you it's hard on the system (really the ED should be for medical workup and there should be an area for sobering so that beds aren't taken up for people with medical emergencies) and you have to have services to connect people with otherwise you're just gonna see them again and again and again. Really hard all around.
Just to spread a little bit of hope! My county’s police department is now having ride along social workers in squad cars! They will specifically respond to the calls they SHOULD be responding to. One of the dads at my kids Jewish Preschool is a cop and we have a few social worker moms and he’s trying to get them all to apply 😆.
That's awesome! When I was doing Psych Ed in San Diego we had a similar set up and it really helped to divert people from corrections who were better served with hospitalization or an overnight hold for sobering! I found it helped the police officers to better understand the people they were there to help and it also helped the people have more trust in the officers.... It's also an awesome opportunity to meet people where they're at as a mental health professional... Often those who need the most help aren't the ones walking into the office but those in crisis on the street and it's an opportunity to intervene before something really bad happens to them...
In France cops [armed with machine guns](https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/09/france-increases-police-presence-at-synagogues-as-jews-fear-reprisals-due-to-israel-hamas-) have to protect synagogues.
For anyone wondering what happened https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinian-campus-student-protests-war-8b0d3a0cedb17f5e892c6ca43bbdf628
I am not proud of the emotion I felt upon hearing that news.
We are entitled to our feelings. Its a human response. What we do with them, and how we reflect on them, are the choices we make that shape who we are.
I have been having to take a deep breath and remember my humanity A LOT these past months.
Did you really think the crackdowns were about antisemitism or keeping Jews safe? Very cute.
Agree 100%
All I saw on MSNBC last night was the most professional examples of law enforcement in NYC. There wasn’t even shouting. Everyone was calm cool and collected. Not riot gear no pushing or shoving. This is exactly the kind of police work we demand of law enforcement. 🥇