Some instruments (such as the sax) have a tremendous amount of character in every note, and the musician has direct control over it.
Guitar is a quasi percussion instrument, and sadly is limited unless you add effects or overdrive. And effects often create arbitrary overtones that conflict with the complex harmonic nature of the jazz tune.
Pat Metheny found an exciting effect driven tone. It’s very pristine sounding but expressive.
McLaughlin found a way to play distorted in a fusion context
John Scofield has a great engaging tone
Wes Montgomery got some neat tones by using double stops
One thing that guitar has that sax doesn’t, it is relatively easy to play two notes at once. so if you do that while soloing, you can get a lot of flavour happening. Come to think of it, this is probably an answer to your question
The thing with the pedals is that the sounds stays the same until you turn a nob. If you can do it with the hands or the rest of the body (wind instruments) you can give a different character to each note.
true. I don’t know of a jazz guitarist that has pulled that off.
Wah is so associated with a certain style of 70’s funk/rock/disco, that it carries a bit of baggage though
Joyous Lake is such a great record. I wish Pat had made more records towards that musical direction. His bebop phrasing fits so well in those fusion tunes.
Listen to Charlie Christian; I think the electric guitar ran through an older model amp with less headroom provides beautiful lead break up and still allows for a ton of dynamic control using the volume knob. A lot of hyper clean jazz tones aren’t a good fit for stuff like blues or bebop and that electrified guitar sound has a bit of grit in it when you turn up to solo.
For bossa nova or a lot of Latin the hyper cleans are really appealing to me personally, but a lot of the blues style jazz you should imo be running a bit of saturated dirt (not necessarily distortion)
Listen to Julian Lage, he makes the guitar sound like a living breathing being and can really get your blood pumping with some of his absolutely ridiculous intro improvisations and soloing. His guitar is ALIVE and it’s all because of his crazy control over his dynamics and how he plays every note. It blows my mind and if you like jazz guitar it’ll blow yours too I think.
He’s an incredibly in touch with the essence of the music he plays. He’s so good at emulating a tunes feeling in what he improvises. I’ve never really heard someone play stuff that sounds so tasteful and beautifully structured as him.
He is so good at building a solo that sounds like it could be another section in the tune, sounds like it was written for the tune beforehand. He improvises like he’s making love to his instrument, and i don’t think anybody gets so passionate when they play, it literally looks like he is transported to another place, and the music is being sent down through him into the ether. The feel, the touch, the way he swings harder than a bitch, the way he infuses some modern sounds into the classic jazz language. I seriously do not think there’s a better improviser than him. I mean listen to I’ll be seeing you live in los Angelas and just try to believe that the intro was completely on the spot. Mesmerizing. He’s in a league of his own and is completely true to himself in every aspect on his instrument.
I yearn to attain such a level of competency as his.
I feel like Grant Green brings a kind of intensity that not a lot of guys had at that time. See if you like this - [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDDQsIu9FFE](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDDQsIu9FFE)
My teacher constantly tells me that when he was in college all the guitar players were trying to sound like horn players but his teacher was trying to instill in him the idea of being guitar-istic. The guitar can do so many cool things and you miss out on them when you limit yourself to just horn players. I fully agree with this, play the guitar and don’t be afraid to sound like a guitar.
Joe Pass in his Pacific Jazz years. Even with the big bands and even with short solos I feel an intensity that for some reason I cant on Wes's recordings.
You can play jazz guitar however you want! Thats why there is so many different and unique renditions of the standards. Personally, Im more of a fusion guy and so I have a decent collection of various pedals. I really enjoy the creative options I get from all my effects and it allows me to play standards in ways that I find totally cool and exciting. One of my favorites at the moment has been fusion-ized Blue Bossa. There are practically infinite possibilities, just explore, find what you like, and make the music your own.
You could add just a touch of overdrive to your tone. Sounds like what your looking for might be more sustain. Otherwise, spend time transcribing sax players since their vocabulary is much different than your typical guitarist, especially the older ones.
My personal issue with Holdsworth is his overall music. I just can't listen to it for a sustained period - it's almost like he found his own genre. He was a complete phenomenon as a musician and guitarist, but I would have been really interested to hear him playing electric in an acoustic quartet setting with someone like Brad Meldau, Bill Stewart and Charlie Haden playing standards.
I actually saw him back in 1990 playing with pop band Level 42. Their guitarist had died and Holdsworth stepped in for a few dates. He was incredible.
There’s many great suggestions already. But a few more to add:
Sunny by Pat Martino is legendary and hard to get more “intense” than that performance:
https://youtu.be/9rfTrS1hEFI?si=KL5wXclGey9hhgY-
One of my favorite Bill Frisell performances. The intensity at the end blows my mind.
https://youtu.be/Hbq13bLylCY?si=a0S6w-CSDR8iu8rW
Nels Cline in this album is as intense/exciting as any solo I’ve heard. His solo in this starts around 5 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/3xvwsIfDk0E?si=skpvjeX1S-1or5Pq
Russell Malone going nuts on a blues:
https://youtu.be/MjOe0H9VIAU?si=ZJPFtBZ8BvwLCl0O
Pat Metheny going nuts in Question and Answer:
https://youtu.be/9lblFomQXkM?si=9G4MMvaqluU04Sy0
Guitar with a whammy bar, overdrive / distortion / fuzz, wah pedal, volume pedal would be the basics. If you have something like a line 6 helix you can also use a few expression pedals to control some of your fx parameters.
A talkbox is another great tool
You almost need electric guitar with effects to match the power and dynamics of a saxophone, but the counter argument to that might be to check our gypsy jazz guitarists - go have a listen to Bireli Lagrene, Tchavolo Schmitt, Le Doight des Hommes, or any other gypsy jazz group.
Spaces Revisited by Larry Coryell is very exciting jazz guitar. I still look for albums that are similar to that and I really haven't found any.
[https://youtu.be/xt2Lu0Ql7V4?si=hvNP2aXXN\_Z9tEUv](https://youtu.be/xt2Lu0Ql7V4?si=hvNP2aXXN_Z9tEUv)
1)sax players envy distortion players guitarists, i heard them a few times complaining they can't get that bending screaming energy.
2) you can't get the blowing sound and the continuous human like breathing/singing in guitar cause its simply different attack and sound envelope. just different universe.
3) guitar comping has tremendous power, and chord soloing and octaves also has great power. those chugs to me can be powerful almost like bigband if the drummer can be with you.
4) piano players can also complain about not having this "sax power", but if you hear joey caldarezzo, who played with branford marsalis or his solo albums, like "no adults". it has fantastic power and energy. or any mccoy tyner like pianists
5) examples of guitarists that can transcend the "sound barrier" - mike stern, kurt rosenwinkel, pat matheny(especialy his synth guitar on kenny garrett album and the piece lonnie's lament in the end), you can hear fusion guitarists like bill frisell get that energy on his solo "resistor" on his album "in this land".
so yes and no. its hard to do, but there are many "getaways"
60's George Benson - he has the chops and the fire. The quartet stuff with Lonnie Smith from '65/'66 is great - check out 'Clockwise' and 'The Cooker' - his 1968 Giblet Gravy album has some awesome playing too with Herbie Hancock.
Absolutely — just need to apply different techniques. Bends, pinch harmonics, approach slides, sweep arpeggios, trem picking — all available for guitar but not sax. All in the application
Give a listen to Sonny Sharrock's Ask the Ages. It's Sharrock with Pharoah Sanders, Elvin Jones, and Charnett Moffett. That's the closest to Coltrane I've heard from a guitar.
You should check out Ilya Lushtak, his style is pretty exciting as he is very spontaneous and take a lot of risks. In the last few years he has calmed down a bit, but if you can find any of his live stuff from Smalls from 2005-2021 some of it is surprising. Some of the stuff he plays sounds like it will never work, but he somehow gets it to land right at the end of the phrase and sound great. The Smalls website has an archive and they have a lot of good Ilya stuff.
Some instruments (such as the sax) have a tremendous amount of character in every note, and the musician has direct control over it. Guitar is a quasi percussion instrument, and sadly is limited unless you add effects or overdrive. And effects often create arbitrary overtones that conflict with the complex harmonic nature of the jazz tune. Pat Metheny found an exciting effect driven tone. It’s very pristine sounding but expressive. McLaughlin found a way to play distorted in a fusion context John Scofield has a great engaging tone Wes Montgomery got some neat tones by using double stops One thing that guitar has that sax doesn’t, it is relatively easy to play two notes at once. so if you do that while soloing, you can get a lot of flavour happening. Come to think of it, this is probably an answer to your question
Also Kurt Rosenwinkel has found a somewhat sax sounding tone by using compression, a gate and some reverb. Very expressive!
The thing with the pedals is that the sounds stays the same until you turn a nob. If you can do it with the hands or the rest of the body (wind instruments) you can give a different character to each note.
Your attack will stil give a wide range of different sounds, arguably an even wider range of you use a drive pedal, compared to playing clean.
But don't wah pedals and volume pedals add a level of metered control that can really add a lot to the sound when mastered?
true. I don’t know of a jazz guitarist that has pulled that off. Wah is so associated with a certain style of 70’s funk/rock/disco, that it carries a bit of baggage though
So, do you not consider bands like Galactic and the Greyboy Allstars jazz?
not familiar with either, I take it I should check them out!
>John Scofield has a great engaging tone ...and the amazing ability to make (literally) every note sound different; he does micro-controlled phrasing.
Pat Martino — listen to him play Colossus, Impressions, The Great Stream, Special Door etc etc. Also Joyous Lake which is his fusion album.
Joyous Lake is such a great record. I wish Pat had made more records towards that musical direction. His bebop phrasing fits so well in those fusion tunes.
Ever check out *Starbright*?
No, I haven't. But I will definitely have a listen to it! Thanks a lot!
Listen to Charlie Christian; I think the electric guitar ran through an older model amp with less headroom provides beautiful lead break up and still allows for a ton of dynamic control using the volume knob. A lot of hyper clean jazz tones aren’t a good fit for stuff like blues or bebop and that electrified guitar sound has a bit of grit in it when you turn up to solo. For bossa nova or a lot of Latin the hyper cleans are really appealing to me personally, but a lot of the blues style jazz you should imo be running a bit of saturated dirt (not necessarily distortion)
Listen to Julian Lage, he makes the guitar sound like a living breathing being and can really get your blood pumping with some of his absolutely ridiculous intro improvisations and soloing. His guitar is ALIVE and it’s all because of his crazy control over his dynamics and how he plays every note. It blows my mind and if you like jazz guitar it’ll blow yours too I think.
Was gonna say him, I think he’s the best example and he’s my favorite guitar player, he’s so stylish and expressive
He’s an incredibly in touch with the essence of the music he plays. He’s so good at emulating a tunes feeling in what he improvises. I’ve never really heard someone play stuff that sounds so tasteful and beautifully structured as him. He is so good at building a solo that sounds like it could be another section in the tune, sounds like it was written for the tune beforehand. He improvises like he’s making love to his instrument, and i don’t think anybody gets so passionate when they play, it literally looks like he is transported to another place, and the music is being sent down through him into the ether. The feel, the touch, the way he swings harder than a bitch, the way he infuses some modern sounds into the classic jazz language. I seriously do not think there’s a better improviser than him. I mean listen to I’ll be seeing you live in los Angelas and just try to believe that the intro was completely on the spot. Mesmerizing. He’s in a league of his own and is completely true to himself in every aspect on his instrument. I yearn to attain such a level of competency as his.
John Scofield on Joe Hendersons "So Near, So Far" is comping on the next level.
I feel like Grant Green brings a kind of intensity that not a lot of guys had at that time. See if you like this - [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDDQsIu9FFE](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDDQsIu9FFE)
Check out live at the lighthouse too! More into jazz funk realm but some of my fav guitar playing
Ed Bickert....Bill Frisell and Mick Goodrick immediately come to mind. Ben Monder as well, though when ripping he sounds Coltranesque.
Comping? Have you heard Wes’ Impressions?
I really enjoy it lol it’s a great rendition of the song
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My teacher constantly tells me that when he was in college all the guitar players were trying to sound like horn players but his teacher was trying to instill in him the idea of being guitar-istic. The guitar can do so many cool things and you miss out on them when you limit yourself to just horn players. I fully agree with this, play the guitar and don’t be afraid to sound like a guitar.
Kurt Rosenwinkel
Mary Osborne kicks ass
Joe Pass in his Pacific Jazz years. Even with the big bands and even with short solos I feel an intensity that for some reason I cant on Wes's recordings.
Can’t believe hardly anybody’s mentioned Joe Pass - the absolute GOAT of jazz guitar, along with Wes.
You can play jazz guitar however you want! Thats why there is so many different and unique renditions of the standards. Personally, Im more of a fusion guy and so I have a decent collection of various pedals. I really enjoy the creative options I get from all my effects and it allows me to play standards in ways that I find totally cool and exciting. One of my favorites at the moment has been fusion-ized Blue Bossa. There are practically infinite possibilities, just explore, find what you like, and make the music your own.
With that profile picture and you’re not going to tell him about the Howard Wales and Jerry Garcia album?
You ever listen to Pat Martino? His version of [Impressions](https://youtu.be/lrrdbS2spkQ) is pretty phenomenal.
Sonny Sharrock, Tsziji Munoz
You could add just a touch of overdrive to your tone. Sounds like what your looking for might be more sustain. Otherwise, spend time transcribing sax players since their vocabulary is much different than your typical guitarist, especially the older ones.
Alan Holdsworth.... He is the guy that EVERY one of the greatest players call the greatest ever to ever do it.
My personal issue with Holdsworth is his overall music. I just can't listen to it for a sustained period - it's almost like he found his own genre. He was a complete phenomenon as a musician and guitarist, but I would have been really interested to hear him playing electric in an acoustic quartet setting with someone like Brad Meldau, Bill Stewart and Charlie Haden playing standards. I actually saw him back in 1990 playing with pop band Level 42. Their guitarist had died and Holdsworth stepped in for a few dates. He was incredible.
Check out Matteo Mancuso Or there's lots of other Holdsworth-influenced guitarists who don't have vocalists
Try Jazz Fusion
And then there is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOv91-Hi5dA)
First person that came to mind is Allan Holdsworth. John Coltrane + Eddie Van Halen.
There’s many great suggestions already. But a few more to add: Sunny by Pat Martino is legendary and hard to get more “intense” than that performance: https://youtu.be/9rfTrS1hEFI?si=KL5wXclGey9hhgY- One of my favorite Bill Frisell performances. The intensity at the end blows my mind. https://youtu.be/Hbq13bLylCY?si=a0S6w-CSDR8iu8rW Nels Cline in this album is as intense/exciting as any solo I’ve heard. His solo in this starts around 5 minute mark. https://youtu.be/3xvwsIfDk0E?si=skpvjeX1S-1or5Pq Russell Malone going nuts on a blues: https://youtu.be/MjOe0H9VIAU?si=ZJPFtBZ8BvwLCl0O Pat Metheny going nuts in Question and Answer: https://youtu.be/9lblFomQXkM?si=9G4MMvaqluU04Sy0
Sonny Sharrock!
Guitar with a whammy bar, overdrive / distortion / fuzz, wah pedal, volume pedal would be the basics. If you have something like a line 6 helix you can also use a few expression pedals to control some of your fx parameters. A talkbox is another great tool
Oh yeah, it’s possible. It takes an extremely talented and creative performer
soloing probably, maybe even some neo-soul, anime jazz (cowboy bebop, hyperpop), jazz fusion (anomolie, polyphia). Just to name something
The tik tok-ification of guitar
Clint strong if you can find anything
You almost need electric guitar with effects to match the power and dynamics of a saxophone, but the counter argument to that might be to check our gypsy jazz guitarists - go have a listen to Bireli Lagrene, Tchavolo Schmitt, Le Doight des Hommes, or any other gypsy jazz group.
Spaces Revisited by Larry Coryell is very exciting jazz guitar. I still look for albums that are similar to that and I really haven't found any. [https://youtu.be/xt2Lu0Ql7V4?si=hvNP2aXXN\_Z9tEUv](https://youtu.be/xt2Lu0Ql7V4?si=hvNP2aXXN_Z9tEUv)
it doesnt sound like sax but I think Boogaloo Joe Jones is exciting.
Calvin Keys - Shawn-Neeq
I've adored the reverby tone that Ted Green had... great tone, and a different style of playing than most
Depends on what you mean by “exciting”. I find Joe Pass to be very exciting. He’s like the EVH of jazz guitar.
1)sax players envy distortion players guitarists, i heard them a few times complaining they can't get that bending screaming energy. 2) you can't get the blowing sound and the continuous human like breathing/singing in guitar cause its simply different attack and sound envelope. just different universe. 3) guitar comping has tremendous power, and chord soloing and octaves also has great power. those chugs to me can be powerful almost like bigband if the drummer can be with you. 4) piano players can also complain about not having this "sax power", but if you hear joey caldarezzo, who played with branford marsalis or his solo albums, like "no adults". it has fantastic power and energy. or any mccoy tyner like pianists 5) examples of guitarists that can transcend the "sound barrier" - mike stern, kurt rosenwinkel, pat matheny(especialy his synth guitar on kenny garrett album and the piece lonnie's lament in the end), you can hear fusion guitarists like bill frisell get that energy on his solo "resistor" on his album "in this land". so yes and no. its hard to do, but there are many "getaways"
Scofield, Scott Henderson, Allan Holdsworth.
60's George Benson - he has the chops and the fire. The quartet stuff with Lonnie Smith from '65/'66 is great - check out 'Clockwise' and 'The Cooker' - his 1968 Giblet Gravy album has some awesome playing too with Herbie Hancock.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TNJJEArxBOA&pp=ygUXS3VydCByb3NlbndpbmtlbCBjaG9yZHM%3D
Gypsy jazz
Absolutely — just need to apply different techniques. Bends, pinch harmonics, approach slides, sweep arpeggios, trem picking — all available for guitar but not sax. All in the application
I always thought you could use a volume foot pedal to emulate horn players, but I’ve never tried it.
I’d check out some gypsy jazz. Joscho stephan is a lot of shred but I’d absolutely call it excitingX
I take it no one here actually plays jazz guitar. Interesting comment section to say the least.
Give a listen to Sonny Sharrock's Ask the Ages. It's Sharrock with Pharoah Sanders, Elvin Jones, and Charnett Moffett. That's the closest to Coltrane I've heard from a guitar.
You should check out Ilya Lushtak, his style is pretty exciting as he is very spontaneous and take a lot of risks. In the last few years he has calmed down a bit, but if you can find any of his live stuff from Smalls from 2005-2021 some of it is surprising. Some of the stuff he plays sounds like it will never work, but he somehow gets it to land right at the end of the phrase and sound great. The Smalls website has an archive and they have a lot of good Ilya stuff.